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Thank you for choosing Luke's English podcast.
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您正在收听卢克的英语播客。
You're listening to Luke's English podcast.
如需更多信息，请访问 teacherluke.co.uk。
For more information, visit teacherluke.co.uk.
大家好，各位听众。
Hello, listeners.
欢迎回到卢克的英语播客，这是一档面向全球英语学习者的播客。
Welcome back to Luke's English podcast, a podcast for learners of English all around the world.
今天过得怎么样？
How are you doing today?
希望你今天一切顺利。
I hope you're doing fine.
这期节目主要讲口音，顺便也聊聊语言学习的日常安排，但重点还是口音。
So this episode is mostly about accents, with some stuff also about, study routines for learning a language, but mostly it's about accents.
今天我邀请了来自YouTube频道‘Patricio Languages’的帕特里西奥来聊聊。
And I'm talking today, to Patricio from the YouTube channel, Patricio Languages.
我其实没多久前才注意到帕特里西奥和他的内容，当时他的一个视频突然出现在我的YouTube推荐里。
I first noticed Patricio and his work not that long ago when one of his videos popped into my YouTube recommendations.
那期视频讲的是伦敦的各种口音，我听得特别有意思。
It was about accents that you can hear in London, and I really enjoyed it.
他一共介绍了四种典型的伦敦口音。
He talks about four distinct London accents.
说到这儿，我想问问你，你觉得是哪几种？
And at this point, I I'm just gonna ask you, what do you think those accents are?
一想到伦敦，想到那些土生土长的当地人说话，你脑海里会浮现出哪些口音？
When you think of London and the English accents that you can hear there from people who were born there, what accents do you expect those will be?
你对伦敦口音了解多少？
What do you know about London accents?
帕特里西奥列出了四种，就是他在那个视频里提到的、让我注意到他的那四种口音。
Patricio identified four, and those were the four accents he talked about in that video that I noticed.
我特别喜欢那个视频。
And I really liked the video.
我觉得他对伦敦人可能说的各种口音做了非常清晰又准确的介绍。
I found it to be a very clear and accurate overview of the various accents that you might hear from people in London.
后来我看了帕特里西奥其他一些视频，发现他还做过很多关于英语其他口音的节目，不只是英国本地的，比如伦敦和曼彻斯特这些地方，还包括国际上的口音，有些甚至很少有人讨论，比如加勒比英语、西非国家的英语，还有各种美式英语，像纽约、芝加哥、得克萨斯、佛罗里达、洛杉矶和加州、费城、巴尔的摩这些地方的口音，还有很多别的。
And, I checked out some of Patricio's other videos and saw that he's also done episodes about all kinds of different other accents in English, and not just regional accents within The UK, like, you know, London and Manchester, but also international accents, including ones that I don't often see people talking about and explaining, such as Caribbean English or English accents from West African nations and many specific forms of American English, like the varieties you might hear in New York, Chicago, Texas, Florida, Los Angeles and California, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and plenty of others.
所以他的内容特别丰富，展现了英语在全球各地人们口中千差万别的使用方式。
So loads of interesting content about accents reflecting the wide variety of ways in which English is spoken by different people all around the world.
我觉得这真的特别重要，我一直想鼓励你们——我的听众们——留意你们可能听到的各种英语口音。
I think this has to be a really, really important thing, and I always want to encourage you, my listeners, to be aware of the varieties of English that you might hear.
明白吗？
Okay?
别只盯着某一种英语，觉得因为某种原因它才是唯一正确的。这种想法不对。你们得真正意识到英语的多样性，接纳它，慢慢熟悉各种不同的口音。
And instead of having a narrow focus, focusing on one particular form of English that you, for whatever reason, have decided is the only one, I think that's not the right idea, that you need to be fully aware of the diversity of the English language, and you need to embrace that, and you need to become more and more familiar with different accents.
我还注意到，Patricio 本人也是个语言学习者，已经把西班牙语和巴西葡萄牙语学到了不错的水平，他还拍过不少关于自己学习方法的视频，内容特别实用，建议也很到位。
I also noticed, that Patricio is a language learner himself who has learned Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese to a good level, and he's done videos about his study routines for those languages, which I found to be, full of interesting and good advice.
所以我心想，Patricio 真是做这期播客的绝佳人选。
So I thought that Patricio would be a great person to talk to in an episode of this podcast.
我就联系了他，问他愿不愿意来参加，幸运的是，他答应了。
I got in touch with him to ask him if he wanted to come on, and thankfully, he said yes.
所以，这就是本期节目。
So here it is.
对吧？
Right?
这是来自 YouTube 频道 Patricio Languages 的 Patricio 的对话，这个频道你一定要去看看。
A conversation with Patricio from Patricio Languages on YouTube, a channel that you should definitely check out.
我们今天主要聊的，正如你已经知道的，是伦敦本地的各种口音。
So we're mainly gonna talk about, as you've as you've understood, accents that you'll find in London, specifically in London.
不是泛泛地讲美式或英式口音，也不是只谈英国或英格兰，而是专门聚焦在伦敦内部的口音差异。
So accents not just American and British, and not just within The UK, not just within England, but specifically within London.
就是这样。
So there's that.
接下来我们会聊聊口音、学英语时遇到的问题，以及你该怎么看待这一整件事。
Then we have a discussion about issues around accents and learning English and the way that you should see this whole subject.
然后我们会谈到帕特里西奥学习西班牙语和葡萄牙语的方法，我觉得特别有意思。
And then we get on to Patricio's study routines for learning Spanish and Portuguese, which I think are very interesting.
我觉得我的听众会很感兴趣，听听一位母语是英语的人是怎么学其他语言的。
I think that should be interesting for my listeners to hear a native English speaker talking about his processes for learning another language.
听别人用英语讲自己的学习方法，本身就挺有启发的。
It's just interesting to hear someone's approach described in English.
所以我做这个节目的目的，是帮你熟悉英语实际说话时的各种口音。
So what I'm trying to do with this is to help you map the sounds of English as it is spoken, meaning the various accents.
不过这次我们主要聚焦在伦敦的口音上。
But in this particular case, we're gonna focus mainly on London.
我想让你更留意不同口音之间的差别。
I want to raise your awareness of different accents.
我还想帮你明白，能听懂各种口音的英语有多重要。
I also want to help you understand the importance of being able to understand English spoken in a variety of accents.
你可能还得想想其他一些问题，比如我该学哪种口音？该朝哪个方向改进？说话时要不要彻底去掉自己的口音？
There are also considerations, which you need to, you know, think about and questions that you might have, including what accent should I have, what accent should I be trying to learn, and should I try to remove all traces of my accent when I speak English?
不管你来自哪里，这些想法你可能都曾有过。
So wherever you come from, that might be something you you thought.
你大概会问自己：我在学英语、练发音这件事上，到底该站在什么位置？
You just think, where do I stand when it comes to learning English and my pronunciation?
我是不是该努力说得像伦敦本地人那样？
Should I be attempting to sound like a native speaker from London or something?
如果是这样，那到底是哪种伦敦口音？
In which case, which one?
那说话时，我该不该把所有母语口音都彻底抹掉呢？
But should you try to eradicate all traces of your accent when you speak English?
这些问题都挺值得琢磨的。
So there's all that.
你现在会注意到，在对话中，帕特里西奥和我都认为，当你在教授或解释不同口音时，是否该模仿这些口音是个挺棘手的问题。
Now you will notice that during the conversation, Patricio and I both agree that when you are, let's say, teaching or explaining different accents, it's a bit tricky whether you should copy those accents while you're doing it.
这其实挺难把握的，要看具体是哪种口音，也可能跟模仿的人有关。
It's a that's a bit of a tricky thing depending on the accent, depending maybe depending on the person who's doing it.
但关键是，如果我们想教你四种伦敦口音，自然就得演示出来，让你听听它们实际是什么样子。
But the point is that, let's say, if we're trying to teach you four different accents from London, naturally, we will want to demonstrate them and show you what they actually sound like.
但这里我们得做个决定：如果我们真去模仿这些口音，又没法做到完美，那就可能带来三个问题。
But we've gotta make a decision there because if we choose to actually copy those accents, unless we do them perfectly, right, unless we're able to copy the accents perfectly, there's three potential problems.
第一个问题是，我们可能会给出一个错误的口音印象。
Problem number one is that we just give a false representation of what the accent is.
比如，我要是想模仿某种伦敦口音，但又模仿得不够地道，那你就学不到这个口音真实的样子了。
For example, if I'm trying to do a certain specific London accent and I can't quite do it perfectly, then that's not really teaching you what the accent genuinely sounds like.
其次，如果我或者帕特里西奥模仿得不对，那我们在网上可就出丑了。
But secondly, if I don't do it correctly or if Patricio doesn't do it correctly, then we could just make a fool of ourselves on the Internet.
人们对口音往往特别敏感。
And people can be very sensitive about accents.
你懂的。
You know?
要是你模仿得不像，人家会直接指出，而且很反感。
If you don't get it just right, people will call you out and they don't like it.
而且，模仿别人的口音如果模仿错了，还可能冒犯人。
And thirdly, it can even be offensive, you know, to do another accent wrong.
模仿别人口音时，哪怕只差一点点，也会踩到各种文化、政治或社会上的雷区。
And there are various little pitfalls, sort of cultural, political, social pit falls around copying someone else's accent and not doing it 100% perfectly.
所以出于这个原因，我们在这一集里很少亲自演示这些口音。
And so for that reason, we don't demonstrate the accents all that much during the episode.
相反，我建议你去观看帕特里西奥的视频，特别是他关于伦敦口音的那些，我已经在简介里放了链接，因为在他的视频里，你会看到他播放了真正从小说这种口音的人的原声。
Instead, I encourage you to go and watch Patricio's videos, specifically the ones he's done about London accents, and I've put links in the description because in those videos, you'll see that Patricio actually plays different samples of people who were born sort of speaking like that, people who naturally speak like that.
他在视频里放了这些人的原话，这样你才能真正感受到这些口音到底是怎么样的。
He plays samples of them talking in his videos, and that's quite a good way to, you know, get a sense of what those accents really sound like.
所以我们达成共识：模仿别人的口音，确实有点问题。
So we agreed that it's a little bit problematic to try to copy other people's accents.
话虽如此，我敢打赌，听我们聊到一半时，你肯定会想听听这些口音是怎么说的。
Having said that, I'm certain that during this conversation, you will definitely want to hear those accents demonstrated.
所以，也许我该再三考虑，但在本集的后半部分，我会更详细地讲一讲这些口音。
And so, actually, maybe against my better judgment, in the second part of this episode, I will go through those accents in a bit more detail.
我会具体分析一些语音细节，比如某些元音或辅音的发音特点，诸如此类的东西。
I will point out some more specific sort of phonological details for those accents, certain vowel sounds or certain consonant sounds and things like that.
等聊完之后，我会再深入一点，顺便示范几个口音。
I will get into a bit more detail after the conversation, and I will demonstrate some of the accents.
我们刚才说的这四种口音里，有几种我对自己模仿得还算有把握。
Now some of these four accents that we're talking about, I'm pretty confident I can do them fairly well.
要是实在不像，我也会找些原声片段放给你听。
And if not if not, I will try and find some samples to play you.
所以后半段我会多讲点细节，把这几个口音更清楚地演示给你听。
So in the second half of this episode, I'll get into some more details, and we'll demonstrate the accents to you in in more detail.
不过现在，咱们先来听听来自Patricio Languages的Patricio怎么说，希望你一直听得很开心。
But otherwise, for now, let's talk to Patricio from Patricio Languages, and I really hope you enjoyed this episode.
想了解更多细节，就继续看下去吧。
Stick around for more details afterwards.
不过现在，不多说了，咱们直接开始吧。
But now, without any further ado, let's get started, and here we go.
一开始，我做这个频道主要是教人怎么自学语言。
So in the first instance, I actually started the channel to teach people how to learn languages by themselves.
我自己学会了西班牙语。
I've taught myself Spanish.
我还自学了葡萄牙语，就想啊，要是能分享一些实用的方法，帮那些工作忙、没时间学语言的人，该多好。
I've taught myself Portuguese, And I thought, you know, I could give people some tips and tricks on how to learn languages if they're a busy working adult and they can't really fit it around their schedule.
我的目标人群就是这类上班族。
That was mainly my target demographic.
后来有一天，我拍了一期关于伦敦口音的视频。
Then one day I decided to do a video about London accents.
结果反响还不错。
It did fairly well.
所以我一直都在做关于口音的视频，同时也没停下制作教上班族自学语言的内容。
So I've continued to do videos about accents, although I'm still doing videos about how to learn a language by yourself as a busy working adult.
我的频道其实是两者的结合：一边教人自学语言，一边帮大家掌握和理解各种口音。
So my my channel is a bit of a hybrid between how to learn languages and, you know, how to master accents or how to understand accents better.
那在你的频道里，哪个视频最受欢迎？
So, which of your videos is the most popular on your channel?
目前最受欢迎的是《伦敦口音解析》，其次是《加州口音解析》。
At present, London accents explained followed by California accent explained.
这两支视频都很火，每支都超过了十五万次播放。
Those two videos are really popular over, I think, a 150,000 views apiece.
不过这是最近才有的成绩，以前完全不是这样。
But that's very recent success prior to that.
那时候我连五万到七万的播放量都很难突破。
You know, I was I was struggling to break 50 or 70,000 views.
对。
Mhmm.
是的。
Mhmm.
好的。
Okay.
没错。
Yeah.
YouTube上经常就是这样。
That's the way it often works with YouTube.
你一直坚持做视频，然后不知怎么的，有一条视频突然被算法推起来了。
You just kind of plug away making your videos, and then sort of for some reason, one video just gets picked up by the algorithm.
对。
Yeah.
然后就会产生连锁反应。
And then there's there's a trickle down effect.
对吧？
Right?
因为那个视频火了，其他视频也跟着表现不错，我发现观众会留在频道里继续看其他口音视频，陷入一种‘口音解析’的循环里。
Other videos start to do well as a byproduct of that video doing well because what I found is that people are staying on the channel watching the other accent videos and then staying in this kind of accent explained loop.
我们还专门做了一个‘口音解析’播放列表，涵盖了你提到的所有口音，再加上几个其他的，展示不同地区的人是怎么说话的、常用哪些词、以及你在那里大概会听到什么。
And we've actually created an accent explained playlist, which discusses all of the accents that you've mentioned and a few more, to showcase how people sound, what words they say, and what you're likely to hear in specific regions of the world.
是的。
Mhmm.
目前最受欢迎的是伦敦口音解析那期，不过加州口音那期正在赶上来。
So the the London accents explained one is currently the most popular, although the Californian one is, catching up.
你觉得为什么大家对这个视频这么感兴趣呢？
Why do you think people are interested in that video then?
我觉得伦敦口音解析那期有两个原因。
I think the London accent explained one is twofold.
视频里用了很多地道伦敦人实际说话的片段。
There's a lot of examples in the video from actual Londoners speaking.
我觉得这很有帮助，因为有时候你看口音解析视频，或者听人分析口音，他们都是在模仿那个口音。
So I think that's helpful because sometimes when you hear accent explained videos or you hear people breaking down accents, they're trying to emulate the accent themselves.
他们并没有真正使用当地人的录音或视频来展示这个地区人们实际的说话方式。
They're not actually using clips or footage from locals to showcase this is what you'll hear in this area.
我觉得在更自然的语境中听到口音会更有帮助。
I think hearing the accent in a more natural setting helps.
所以我不总是模仿口音，但有时候我会，我更倾向于直接用当地人说话的片段，然后专门分析某个发音。
So instead of trying to emulate the accent, sometimes I do, not all the time, but sometimes I do, I tend to just use clips from locals speaking and then I'll break down a particular sound.
我还会加上字幕，来说明某些词是怎么发音的，以及它们和标准英语的发音有什么不同。
I'll use captions and subtitles as well to showcase how things were pronounced or how things sound relative to how they sound compared to traditional kind of basic standard English.
当然，这在美式英语和英式英语之间会有差异，但我尽量指出标准英语和目标口音在发音上的细微区别。
That can vary depending on whether you're in The US or The UK of course, but I try to point out where there are differences or where there's a slight pronunciation, differentiation between a standard English speaker and the accent in question.
所以我觉得伦敦口音那期视频表现得好，这也是原因之一。
So I think with the London video, that's one of the reasons that it did well.
另外，我本人是伦敦人，可能也让观众更容易产生共鸣。
Also, fact that I'm a Londoner, maybe it helped to resonate a bit better with the audience.
但我也不确定是不是这个原因，因为我说过，加州口音那期也做得非常成功。
But I'm not sure whether that's the case because as I said, the California video has done really well.
我的德克萨斯视频表现得非常好。
My Texas videos have done really well.
我听起来既不像加州人，也不像德克萨斯人。
And I don't sound like I'm from California, and I don't sound like I'm from Texas.
所以，也许观众产生共鸣这一点，我挺希望它是真的，但可能没我想象的那么关键。
So potentially, the whole resonating with the audience point is something that I I would like to believe is true, but maybe it's not as true as I would like to believe.
是的。
Yeah.
你作为伦敦人讲伦敦口音，这种真实感确实很重要。
That the authenticity aspects that, you know, you're a Londoner talking about London accents.
这种真实感本身就有吸引力。
So there's that, you know, that sense of it being authentic.
但另一方面，可能也跟你采用的方法有关，就像你说的，你用当地人自然说话的片段来说明观点。
But also just maybe the approach that you take because, as you said, you do feature clips of people speaking in their natural accent as a way of, you know, illustrating the points you're making.
而且视频本身制作得也很精良。
But also just, they're just well done.
这些视频制作得真的很精良。
They're just well made videos.
谢谢你这么说。
I appreciate that.
所以，
So,
我的意思是，你确实。
I mean, you yeah.
你做了这么多关于口音的视频。
You've done these these videos about accents.
你有没有接受过任何关于口音、发音、音系学等方面的学术训练？
Are you sort of do you have any kind of academic background in terms of looking at accents and pronunciation, phonetics, phonology, and stuff?
没有。
No.
我就是一个对语言和口音感兴趣的语言学习者，这个频道只是这个兴趣的副产品。
So I'm just a language learner, somebody who's interested in languages and accents, and a byproduct of that is this channel.
我通过这个频道来展示我的兴趣。
And I'm showcasing my interest by way of the channel.
就这么简单。
That's it.
就是这样。
That's it.
是的。
Yeah.
我没有这方面的正式背景。
Don't have a formal background in it.
我其实从事金融行业。
I'm actually in finance.
我的工作跟口音或语言完全没关系。
What I do has nothing to do with accents or language.
当然，懂点语言还是有帮助的。
I mean, knowing languages helps.
对吧？
Right?
我做过巴西、西班牙和葡萄牙的交易。
I've done deals in Brazil, Spain, Portugal.
所以我的语言能力在这方面确实有帮助，但现实中做我这份工作，并不需要成为语言学家。
So my language skills have helped in that regard, but I do not need to be a linguist to do what I do in the real world.
所以分析口音更多只是你出于兴趣的一种爱好。
So breaking down accents is more just sort of a just something you're interested in just as a as a hobby kind of thing.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
但这也可能有好处，因为如果你用太学术的方式去描述口音特征，可能会让非学术背景的人觉得难以亲近。
But then maybe that helps as well because if you are overly academic in the way that you describe features of accents, then it can start to become a little bit alienating for people who are not from the academic world.
所以我觉得你做研究、拆解口音的各种特点，然后用普通人能听懂的日常语言解释出来，这对很多不搞学术的人来说特别有吸引力。
So I guess that you you kind of like you do your research and break down different features of an accent, but then you can explain them in a kind of everyday in layman's terms, which is quite an appealing thing for most people who are not sort of in into the academic side of things.
是的。
Yeah.
而且很多都跟我对这些现象的理解有关。
And and a lot of it has to do with my interpretation of things.
所以我听到的口音特点，我也尽量把它传达出来。
So what I hear in accents, and I try to get that across as well.
我可不是说我说的就一定是真理，或者这就是我接触这个口音或语言的唯一方式，你们完全可以自己去听、去判断。
I'm not saying that what I'm saying is gospel, is the absolute truth, is this is how I've interacted with this accent or this is how I've interacted with this language, feel free to listen.
我也没说这就是唯一正确的方法，或者这就是学习口音的唯一途径，口音本来就是可以有不同解读的。
I'm not saying that this is the way to do things or this is the way to learn or this is the way the accent is, you know, it's open to interpretation.
你们随时可以质疑我，或者在评论里指出我哪里说错了，甚至说我漏掉了什么。
Feel free to question me or, you know, leave a comment to say you were wrong on this, potentially you forgot about this.
我始终乐于学习。
Always happy to learn.
对吧？
Right?
我不觉得自己什么都懂。
I don't I don't think I know it all.
但我觉得，就像我说的，这个频道是出于真正的兴趣才做起来的。
But I think with the channel, as I said, it's born out of a genuine interest.
看到大家这么积极地参与，真的很让人开心。
So it's nice to see people interacting with it in such a positive fashion.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
那我们来聊聊伦敦口音的那期视频吧。
So let's talk about the London accent video then.
你在视频里拆解了四种不同的伦敦口音。
You, break down four different London accents in that, video.
能跟我们说说这四种口音吗？
Can you tell us about those four accents?
是的
Yeah.
当然
Absolutely.
我觉得第一个是标准英音，这种口音在英国以外的地方最常见，因为我们在历史剧和电影里经常听到。
I think the first is RP, and this is probably the most popular accent outside of The UK because we hear it in period dramas and films.
好莱坞特别喜欢用这种口音。
Hollywood likes to push this accent.
所以你会经常听到标准英音。
So you'll hear RP a lot.
新闻里也经常用。
You'll also hear it in the news.
我觉得，无论是我的观众还是你的观众，应该都对这种口音最熟悉。
And this is an accent which I think my audience certainly and potentially your audience is most familiar with.
就是那种很拘谨的感觉，每个t音都发得很清楚，几乎所有词都说得特别标准。
You know, stiff upper lip, pronounce all their t's, and you'll tend to hear pretty much everything pronounced in inverted commas well.
这一点很明显。
It's clear.
不过这种口音其实是一个连续的谱系。
Now there is a spectrum with this accent.
不是每个人说起来都一样。
Not everybody sounds the same.
你听查尔斯国王说话，和他儿子们完全不是一种味道。
If you listen to King Charles, he doesn't sound like his sons.
再比如《切尔西制造》里那些人，他们的口音也跟父母那代不一样。
And if you listen to the folks in kind of Made in Chelsea, they probably don't sound like their parents.
这些年这种口音一直在变化，我觉得新版的叫标准南英英语，算是RP的一种现代版本。
So the accent has evolved over the years, and I think this newer variant is called standard southern British English which is a form of RP or what some would call modern RP.
经典RP和现代RP之间确实有区别，我们后面视频里可以再细聊，不过这是我在这段视频里提到的第一个口音。
So there is a difference between that classic RP and modern RP which I'm sure we can get into later in this video but that's the first accent which I discussed in the video.
第二个是考克尼口音，源自伦敦东区，非常有名。
The second is Cockney which is a famous accent that's born out of the East End Of London.
有一位著名演员带有这种口音，就是丹尼·戴尔。
A famous actor who has this accent is Danny Dyer.
这种口音的一些特点包括前元音化，比如把 'brother' 读成 'bruvver'，'mother' 读成 'muvver'。
A few features of this accent th fronting so using brother instead of brother or mother instead of mother.
你还会听到喉塞音，比如 'water' 会说成 'wa'er'，类似这样的发音。
You'd also hear that glottal stop so water instead of water and things like that.
还会用 'ain't' 和 'innit' 这样的词，比如 'I ain't doing that'。
Usage of words like ain't and innit So I ain't doing that.
不。
No.
我不会那样做。
I am not doing that.
我不会那样做的。
I ain't doing that.
或者用 'that was crap, innit' 来加强语气。
Or that was crap innit to intensify a claim.
对。
Mhmm.
所以听到这些其实一点都不奇怪。
So it's not unusual to hear those things as well.
还有河口口音，它介于考克尼口音和标准英音之间，具体取决于说话人，可能更偏向考克尼，也可能更偏向标准英音。
And then you have Estuary, which falls somewhere between Cockney and RP and depending on the speaker in question they may be more Cockney leaning or more RP leaning.
河口口音挺有意思的，因为它和考克尼口音有很多相似之处。
And the Estuary accent is an interesting one because it shares a lot of features with Cockney.
我常把它叫做‘轻量版考克尼’，或者说是更温和的考克尼。
I like to refer to it as maybe a diet Cockney or a kind of calmer Cockney.
它听起来很像考克尼，但又不完全是；听起来也像标准英音，但也不完全是——不过具体还是看说话人，有的人更接近标准英音，有的人更接近考克尼。
So it sounds very Cockney leaning but it's not quite Cockney and it sounds RP leaning but it's not quite RP but again the speaker in question can lean closer to RP or closer to Cockney.
这真的要看具体情况。
It really depends on context.
然后还有MLE口音，这是伦敦最新出现的一种口音。
Then you have the MLE accent which is the newest accent in London.
我觉得这个口音从八九十年代就开始出现了。
I think it's been around since the 80s or 90s.
这是个比较新的口音，MLE全称是多元文化伦敦英语，这个名字反映了创造这种口音的人群背景。
It's a relatively new accent and the name MLE comes from Multicultural London English and that multicultural piece pertains to the demographic of people who created this accent.
它源于加勒比移民，尤其是牙买加人来到英国后，把他们的说话方式和伦敦本地口音融合在一起。
It's born out of West Indian immigrants moving to The UK particularly Jamaicans and adopting their speech or adapting their speech with Cockney.
因为如果你听MLE，它其实是加勒比英语或牙买加英语和伦敦口音的混合体。
Because if you hear MLE, it's a bit of a hybrid between Caribbean English or Jamaican English and Cockney.
但还有其他影响因素，比如西非、东非和东南亚的语言，也都对这种现代的MLE产生了影响。
But there are other influences as well, namely West African influences, East African influences, Southeast Asian influences that have influenced this modern MLE.
不过我觉得最主要的来源还是加勒比地区。
But I think the primary influence is from the West Indies.
你一听就能听出来。
You can really hear it.
而且很多词，包括打招呼用语，都是共通的。
And a lot of words are shared, even greetings.
有个词，意思就是‘最近怎么样’。
A word like, which means, you know, what's up?
最近怎么样？
What's up?
最近好吗？
What's good?
你怎么样？
How are you?
这直接来自牙买加。
That's straight from Jamaica.
如果你留意说话的节奏，就能听出那种西印度群岛特有的韵律。
And if you listen to how things are said, it has that kind of cadence that you will hear from the West Indies as well.
像‘the’和‘that’这样的词，发音会变成‘duh’和‘dat’，用d代替th，这种现象在西非和加勒比地区也都很常见。
And the pronunciation of things like the and that may become duh and dat and that replacing of th with a d is something that you'll hear in West Africa again in The Caribbean as well.
所以这个口音就是这么来的。
So that's where that accent comes from.
MLE口音有趣的地方在于，它有几个明显的特征。
What's interesting about the MLE accent is that there are a few telltale signs with it.
其中一个特点是像‘like’、‘y’、‘fly’这些词的发音。
One thing is the pronunciation of words like like, y and fly.
听起来会更接近‘laik’、‘y’、‘flai’。
It will sound more like like, y, fly.
用这些词的时候，发音会比较放松。另外，Emily 还喜欢用加强语气的词，比如‘still’——不说‘I'm going to the shop’，你可以说‘I'm going to the shop still’，或者‘I spoke to him yesterday still’。
There's a relaxed sound when you use that word and sorry there's a relaxed sound when you use those words and Emily also uses intensifiers so take a word like still instead of just saying I'm going to the shop you can say I'm going to the shop still or I spoke to him yesterday still.
虽然这个词本身没增加实质信息，但它能强调某件事确实发生了，或者你打算去做。
It doesn't really add value but it does in the sense that it showcases the fact that something was done or you're going to do something.
MLE使用者常用的另一个词是‘man’。
And another word that's popular with MLE speakers is man.
你可以说‘Man's going out today’，或者‘Man went there yesterday’，‘I was talking to my man’，‘Man said he's not going’。
So I could say something like man's going out today or man went there yesterday or I was talking to my man or man said he's not going.
它既可以用于第一人称，也可以用于第三人称。
So you can use it in the first person and the third person.
女性有时候也会用。
Women use it sometimes.
听起来不太常见，但你偶尔会听到一些女性用‘man’来指代自己，我知道这对很多外国人，尤其是我的美国朋友来说很不可思议，但这种用法确实存在。
It's not typical to hear that, but you may hear a woman from time to time referring to herself as a man in the first person, which I know sounds crazy to a lot of foreigners, especially to my American friends, but this is something that you may hear.
明白了。
Okay.
对。
Right.
真厉害。
Wow.
把这些内容都总结得真清楚。
Lot of stuff all neatly summarized there.
太好了。
That's great.
各位听众，你们可以去看看帕特里西奥关于伦敦四种口音的视频，另外也有专门介绍MLE的视频，里面能听到他刚才提到的那些用法实例。
So listeners, you can check out Patricio's video about the four London accents, but also there's a specific video a couple of videos about MLE as well, where you can hear examples of all those things that he's just mentioned.
你提到的一个观点，我在你的视频里也注意到了，你之前其实也说过，那就是每个口音其实都是一个连续体。
I mean, one point that you've made, I've noticed in your videos, and I think you I think you just you said it earlier on, which is that the fact that every accent is a spectrum.
我们刚才聊到RP口音也是一个连续体，一端是那种非常老派、上流社会的英式口音，你可能在《唐顿庄园》《王冠》这类剧里听到，王室成员或者那些顶级贵族学校的人说话就是这种特别讲究的RP口音。
So we talked about RP being a spectrum where you on one end, you've got the kind of heightened RP that you might hear from very old fashioned, English or, upper class English, you know, that you might hear on the, on a show like Downton Abbey or the Crown or even members of the royal family using using it or people from very upper class, exclusive schools will speak in a certain heightened posh RP.
另一端则是更标准的RP。
And then there's a more standard RP.
我觉得你管它叫南部标准英式英语，对吧？
I think you call it southern standard southern British English Yeah.
这种口音可以说是一种相对中性的英语表达方式。
Which is just you could argue that it's a sort of neutral form of English.
不过它是不是真的中性，这另当别论，你只要往英格兰北部走一走就知道了。
Whether it really is neutral is another question because, you know, just go north in England
那就完全不是中性了。
and That's not neutral anymore.
对。
Yeah.
在北方人看来，他们不会觉得南部标准英式英语是中立的，毕竟这样对北方人不公平。
It's not really in the North, they won't argue that it that southern standard southern British English is the neutral form because, know, you it's not really fair to everyone north of Exactly.
不管是在米德兰兹地区也好，
Wherever it is, like the Midlands.
对。
Yeah.
但你提到的这些口音差异之间，其实一直都存在一个连续谱系，
But there's a there's a there's always a spectrum within these distinctions that you've talked about,
这一点
which is
特别值得记住。
a really important thing to remember.
口音并不是简单分成四类就完事了，而是有很多交叉融合，人们会根据场合不断调整自己的发音。
That it's not like cut and dry, just simple four basic forms, but there's a lot of sort of intermingling and a lot of code switching where people will adapt their accents depending on the situation.
每个人口音都是灵活变化的。
You know, individuals have fluid accents.
不过呢。
But Yeah.
我们大概可以这么说。
We can sort of roughly just yeah.
我想补充一点，根据场合不同，人们可能会调整口音来适应听众。
And I think I'll add to that by saying, you know, depending on the context, somebody may code switch or pivot their accent to accommodate a certain audience.
比如有些说标准英音的人，在不同情境下听起来会更接近泰晤士河口音或考克尼口音。
So you have RP speakers that sometimes sound a bit more Estuary or Cockney depending on their context.
如果你在非常正式的场合，比如律师事务所或者一家大公司里，你可能会更倾向于使用标准英音；但如果你在酒吧或者足球场看台上，就可能转成考克尼口音。
If you're in a very formal setting potentially at a law firm or, you know at a high flying corporation somewhere you may lean into your RP accent but if you're in the pub or in the stands at a football stadium you may lean into your Cockney accent.
如果你在伦敦西南或东南部，比如在皮卡迪利市场买水果，你可能会用上MLE口音。
If you're in an environment in Southwest or Southeast London potentially you're in Pekka Market trying to buy fruits, you may lean into your MLE accent.
这真的要看场合，我觉得很多伦敦人都有这种能力。
It really depends on the context and I think a lot of Londoners do have that in their pocket.
他们时不时就能切换出来。
They can pull it out from time to time.
不过话说回来，这些很多时候并不是有意识的，很多都是下意识的行为。
Now this isn't always conscious by the way, a lot of this is subconscious.
有些人是有意为之，但这也确实表现出来了。
Some folks are doing it consciously, but it also shows.
所以要明白，有口音并不意味着你总是用同一种方式说话。
So it's important to understand that just because you have accent, it doesn't mean you always sound one way.
即使在同一类口音里，你也能在不同风格之间切换，偶尔偏向另一种。
Even within that accent, you can move up and down that spectrum and maybe lean towards another.
我觉得在MLE里，我注意到有时候会有一种更正式的变体。
I think with MLE, one thing I've noticed is that sometimes you have a more formal variety of MLE.
说实话，我现在说的这种就是那种正式版的MLE。
That's the variety with which I'm speaking now, to be fair.
但如果我跟小时候在 neighborhood 一起长大的朋友们在一起，我肯定不会这么说话。
But if I were with my friends that I grew up with in the neighborhood, I probably wouldn't sound like this.
对很多考克尼口音、RP口音和泰晤士口音的人来说，情况也是一样的。
And the same can be said for a lot of Cockney speakers, RP speakers and Estuary speakers.
所以语境真的很重要。
So the context really matters.
我觉得这种灵活变通的能力，伦敦人大多都有。
I think having that fluidity is something that most Londoners have.
说到伦敦人，我刚才提到的那四种口音，是因为它们是土生土长的伦敦人常会有的口音。
And speaking of Londoners, the four accents that I mentioned, I mentioned them because these are accents that Londoners are likely to have as in people who were born and raised in London.
但这并不意味着伦敦只有这几种口音。
That doesn't mean that these are the only accents that exist in London.
伦敦有上百种不同的口音。
London has hundreds of accents.
所以人们常常把这两者混为一谈，我视频底下就有人留言说，伦敦的口音远不止这些。
So people tend to conflate the two and I've seen comments in my videos saying there are more accents than this in London.
没错。
Absolutely.
完全正确。
That's absolutely correct.
但这些是伦敦本地人——也就是在伦敦出生长大的人——通常会有的口音。
But these are the accents that Londoners, as in people born and raised in London, tend to have.
对。
Mhmm.
没错。
Mhmm.
我现在想到的是我那些在世界各地学英语的观众。
I'm just thinking of my audience at this point who are out there in the world, you know, trying to learn English.
我觉得对他们来说，很重要的一点是：他们到底该模仿哪种口音？学习一门语言时，该追求什么样的口音，和了解你将来会遇到的各种不同口音，这两者之间有什么区别？
And I guess an important thing to say for them is that, well, what acts you know, what accent should they be trying to have, and what's the difference between the accent that you try to acquire in the language you're learning and just being aware of the many different accents that you will encounter when you're talking to people?
你怎么看这个问题？
What do you think about that?
我觉得后者其实更重要。
I think the latter is actually more important.
对吧？
Right?
在我看来，语言学习最重要的首先是能听懂别人，也让别人听懂你。
Understanding and being understood, first and foremost, is the most important thing with language learning, in my opinion.
我觉得过了某个阶段，想说得跟母语者一模一样，基本不太可能。
I think after a certain point, you sounding like a native is probably never going to happen.
这确实是有点无奈的现实。
I think that's the unfortunate truth.
你可能会接近母语者的水平。
You'll get close to sounding native in a language.
但除非你真正融入那个文化，搬到那里生活，刻意去模仿某种口音，否则你很难听起来像是当地人。
But I don't think you're ever really going to sound like you're from somewhere unless you truly assimilate with that culture, move there, live there, and pick an accent and really try to emulate that.
但更重要的是，你要能听懂他们，这样才能顺利交流，毕竟语言的本质就是用来沟通的，对吧？
But I think it's more important to understand those people so you can communicate because that's the purpose of language, right?
你总不能只自己学，从来不跟人说吧？你学语言是为了跟人交流。
You don't want to just learn it in isolation and not speak to anyone, you want to speak to people.
所以，最重要的是先学会听懂他们。
So you need to understand them first and foremost.
所以我觉得，听懂各种口音才是最重要的。
So understanding accents, I think is the most important thing.
想模仿口音确实是个不错的方向，特别是如果你希望把目标语言练到极致的话。
Trying to emulate one, think is a step in the right direction, especially if you want to perfect your target language.
但我认为这并不是最关键的。
But I don't think it's the most important thing.
实际上，我觉得这是最难的一件事。
And actually, I think it's the hardest thing.
所以我不会花太多力气去追求说得像母语者，与其这样，不如多花时间提升你的英语或其他你正在学的语言，但听懂比模仿英式、美式或任何特定口音重要得多。
So I wouldn't spend too much energy in trying to sound like a native, try to improve your English or whatever language you're learning, but understanding it is more important than sounding like an MLE speaker or an RP speaker or a cognitive speaker.
说实话，说英语时带着你自己的母语口音，反而有种独特的魅力。
And I think there's a bit of a charm to having an accent, your native accent when speaking English to be honest.
我觉得这能让你显得与众不同。
I think that helps you stand out.
你不会听起来跟别人一模一样。
You don't sound like everybody else.
你身上有种特别的地方，能让人想跟你聊起来。
There's something about you that's intriguing and can start a conversation.
这本身就是个话题切入点，比如‘你来自哪儿？’，因为很明显你不是本地人。
That is a conversation starter or where are you from because clearly you're not from this place.
这就是你的突破口。
That's your door in right.
如果你说得跟别人一模一样，那本来可能向你敞开的门，就关上了。
If you sound like everybody else now you've just closed the door that was potentially open to you.
所以这一点你也得留意。
So just be cognizant with that as well.
我是通过学语言才明白这个道理的。
And I had to learn this through learning languages.
我学西班牙语和葡萄牙语的时候，曾经想彻底摆脱我的‘老外口音’——西班牙语我确实改进了不少，但葡萄牙语就没那么明显。
When I learned Spanish and Portuguese, which we'll get into later, I was trying to kind of get rid of my gringo accent, which I've accomplished to some degree in Spanish, not so much with Portuguese.
但我发现，带着点‘老外口音’反而有好处，对吧？
But what I found is that having a gringo accent can actually be helpful, right?
因为如果你说得太像本地人了，西班牙语太流利，在多米尼加共和国的全包度假村餐厅里，反而可能得不到最好的服务。
Because if you sound too close to a native, if your Spanish is too good, you may not get the best customer service in a restaurant when you're at an all inclusive in Dominican Republic.
但当你一听就是外国人的口音时，反而能享受到‘老外待遇’，虽然有点无奈，但有时候确实更好。
But when you sound like a gringo, you get gringo treatment, which unfortunately sometimes is better.
所以，如果你说得太地道了，结果可能适得其反。
So it may backfire if you'd sound too native.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
我想到两点。
So two things I'm thinking of.
第一点是，能让人听懂才是最重要的，学语言的时候，你得先专注于把意思表达清楚。
One is that, yeah, being intelligible is got has got to be the first thing that if you're learning a language, you've got to just focus on being understood and being clear.
对。
Mhmm.
这可能意味着你要选一个比较中性的口音来模仿，英语里大概就是标准英音，一种现代版的RP口音，应该最理想。
Now that might involve picking an accent which seems to be the neutral form and trying to aim at that, which probably in English is gonna be a form of RP, a sort of modern standard RP, is probably gonna be the one.
你觉得呢？
Right?
因为大多数人想表达得清晰中立的时候，都会不自觉地往这个方向靠。
Because that seems to be what most people will default to in when they're attempting to be clear and neutral.
你懂的。
You know?
没错。
Mhmm.
我就遇到过这种情况。
So, that's happened to me.
我拿自己当个例子吧。
I'll give myself as an example.
我觉得我平时说话没什么特别明显的口音。
I think that I don't really have a particularly strong accent as a default base level.
比如在家跟爸妈聊天，我就是这么讲的。
For example, at home with my mom and dad, I'll pretty much speak like this.
但要是跟来自米德兰兹的朋友在一起，因为我小时候有一半时间是在伯明翰度过的。
But then when I'm with my friends from the Midlands, because I spent half my, my youth, let's say, in the Birmingham area.
所以跟哥们儿在一起时，我的口音就会不自觉地带上点伯明翰味儿，听起来就像这样。
So when I'm with my mates, then I'll start to sound a bit more brummy, and it sort of comes out a bit more like this.
是的。
Yeah.
语调也会变得更像伯明翰那边的腔调。
And then maybe, like, the intonation goes a bit more Birmingham like that.
而跟伦敦的朋友待一块儿，我就会不自觉地模仿伦敦口音，比如把‘tea’的音吞掉，说成‘get that bottle of water over there’。
And then with my friends from London, I might start standing sounding a bit more like a Londoner, and I'll start to drop my teas, and I'll say, get that bottle of water over there.
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他在干嘛呢？
What is what's he doing?
你懂的吧。
You know?
我一换环境，说话就不知不觉变这样了。
I'll start to sound a bit more like this, so I just move around.
但作为英语老师，我会有意把口音调得中性一点，最后就变成这种RP口音了。
But as an English teacher, I do tend to neutralize my accent to an extent, and I end up with this RP.
我觉得对学英语的人来说，RP可能是比较自然的目标口音，因为它听起来比较中立。
So I think that probably RP is probably a a natural accent for people to aim at if they're learning English because it seems to be a sort of neutral English.
但这不意味着它比其他口音更好，或者更普遍——实际上，英国只有大约5%的人说这种口音。
That's not to say it's any better than other accents or even more more common than other accents because I think RP is actually there's only about only about 5% of people speaking English in The UK will speak with this accent.
也不代表其他某个口音就占了大多数。
But that's not to say there is another accent that's that's got a larger section of the pie chart.
事实上，口音的分布特别分散，小块特别多。
That the pie chart in fact is is really many, many small pieces.
并没有一种口音是占主导地位的。
There isn't one accent that dominates.
你知道的。
You know?
我同意。
Agree.
我觉得好莱坞电影和历史剧并没有真实展现伦敦或英国丰富的口音多样性。
And I and I think Hollywood and period dramas don't do a good job of representing the variety of accents that we have in London or The UK.
不过我想问你一个问题，关于口音这件事。
But I'd actually like to ask you a question about the whole accent thing.
你觉得在学英语的过程中，有没有一个合适的时机该去专门练习某种口音？
Do you think there's a point in time in the language learning journey where you should focus on an accent?
因为以我的经验来看，我觉得在刚开始或者初级阶段就刻意模仿口音并不是个好主意。
Because in my experience, I don't think it's the healthiest thing to focus on an accent at the beginning or in the early stages.
对。
Mhmm.
你对这个怎么看？
What are your thoughts on that?
不是。
No.
我觉得这得看情况。
I think that it's it depends.
当我跟我的听众交流时，我默认他们已经不是初学者了。
So when I I think when I talk to my listeners, I'm assuming that they are not at the beginning of their their learning journey.
你知道的。
You know?
不过对于刚开始学、或者初级到中级阶段的人来说，确实得确保别把基本的东西说错，比如常用词的发音、元音和重音要准确，这类基础得打好。
But, yeah, certainly, for people at an elementary level, pre intermediate level, then, obviously, you've got to make sure that you're not making any you're not saying things radically wrong, you know, that you're getting the basic most common words and pronouncing them with the right vowel sounds and the right stresses, you know, things like that.
最基本的那些东西确实很重要。
So the absolute basics are important.
但一开始并不需要把口音练得完美无缺。
But, yeah, it's not like perfecting your accent isn't the most important thing at the beginning.
更重要的是先把语法基础打牢，掌握最常用的词汇，真正理解并能流利使用它们，这样才能顺利完成日常交流。
Instead, just pinning down the basics of grammar, getting the most frequently used words and understanding them and being able to use them fluently and being able to do most acts of communication successfully, those are the most important things.
等你水平提高了，再慢慢打磨细节，提升表达的细腻度。
And then as you develop and get to higher levels, that's where you start to refine things and become more sophisticated.
这包括更追求表达的清晰，同时减少母语对英语的干扰。
And that can involve just moving towards moving ever further towards clarity and, also trying to get rid of the influence of your first language on English.
比如，尽量让多音节词的重音和大多数英语母语者的发音一致。
So, you know, for example, just trying to get the word stress of multisyllable words, the same as most English speakers pronounce them.
是的。
Yeah.
还有类似这样的地方。
And things like that.
对吧？
Right?
所以，开头阶段这并不是最重要的，但随着你进步和提升，确实值得慢慢培养。
So, yeah, it's not the most important thing at the beginning, but certainly an important thing to develop as you progress and refine, your English.
是的。
Yeah.
我明白你的意思。
I I I get that.
我觉得，没错，我在学外语时也有过同样的经历。
I think, yeah, I think I've had the same experience with learning foreign languages as well.
刚开始的时候，我最关心的就是语法和句子结构是否正确。
I think in the early stages, my main concern is kind of this grammar and getting sentence construction correct.
我想把话说对顺序，发音嘛，慢慢就会好起来的。
Know, I wanna be saying things in the right order and then pronunciation will come with time.
关键就是多练，多练，再多练。
I think just practice, practice, practicing.
你的发音一定会进步的。
You'll get there with the pronunciation.
但一开始我不会太纠结这个，因为太在意的话，反而会拖慢你的进步。
But I try not to get too hung up on it in the beginning because if you do, you can actually curtail your process or your progress.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我还想提一点，就是关于英语各种口音的问题。
Another point I wanted to make, which is on the subject of the variety of different accents in English.
从英语学习者的角度看，这有时候确实让人头疼，你会想：我好不容易在学一门语言，怎么还有这么多不同的口音。
So from the point of view of a learner of English, I think that can sometimes seem like a problem that you you you think, well, I'm trying to learn this language, but there's just so many different accents.
简直没法学。
It's impossible.
我完全理解这种感受。
I totally understand that.
但与此同时，我觉得这其实反而是英语的一个优势。
But at, at the same time, I think we can consider it to be a strength because of this.
对吧？
Right?
如果你觉得，我得说得跟母语者一样才算用对了英语，
So if you think, well, I'm trying to sound I I I've been told or I believe that I have to sound like a native speaker in order to be using this language correctly.
其实不是这样的。
Not really not really true.
英语其实比你想象的要开放得多。
Like, English is much more of an open source language than you might think.
有这么多不同的口音反而是好事，因为你的口音也是其中之一。
And the fact that there's so many different accents is a good thing because your accent is one of them as well.
是的。
Yeah.
比如你是波兰人说英语，那有点波兰口音完全没问题，毕竟大家都是这样。
If you are A Polish person speaking English, for example, then, you know, it's okay to have a bit of a Polish accent because, you know, welcome to the club.
我们都一样。
We've all got Yeah.
多多少少都有点口音。
Some sort of accent.
没错。
Exactly.
你来伦敦看看就知道了。
Just come to London.
你会发现成千上万和你一样的人。
You'll find another thousand of yourself.
别为此担心。
Like, don't worry about it.
没错。
Exactly.
这儿有好多波兰人，说的都是带波兰口音的英语。
There's, like, loads of Polish people with a with a Polish English accent.
当然，你的口音也不能太重，重到别人听不出是英语了。
Obviously, your accent shouldn't be so Polish that it doesn't sound like English Yeah.
说白了就是这样。
Essentially.
英语必须以地道的英语为主。
It's got to be mostly English.
但如果别人知道你来自波兰，或者能听出你有外国背景，这其实没什么不好，因为每个人都有自己的特点。
But if you if people know that you're from Poland or that you've you know, they can tell that you're from somewhere, that's not necessarily a bad thing because everyone's got something.
毕竟，口音的多样性值得被认可，也要明白，带口音完全没问题。
Like, you know, every everyone has like, the variety of accents is a thing to celebrate, and it's a thing to realize that having an accent is okay.
英语本来就可以带口音。
English allows you to have an accent.
这恰恰是英语的魅力之一。
That's kind of part of what is great about English.
完全正确。
Absolutely.
最重要的是，你要能听懂别人，也让别人听懂你。
And it's most important to just understand and be understood.
只要你能做到这两点，就已经迈出了很好的一步。
If you can do those two things, you're off to a good start.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
没错
Yeah.
确实
Yeah.
如果我们讨论如何提升英语水平，那其中一部分就是你提到的语码转换——知道什么时候该调整口音，或者改用不同风格的英语，比如在社交场合用更随意的俚语，而在商务会议中则要表达清晰、直截了当，使用更正式的语言。这些技巧都是随着你英语水平的提高，慢慢学会并意识到的。
And I guess if we're talking about refining our English, part of that is this code switching thing that you talked about, knowing when to adjust your accent or your, the form of English that you're using, the register, whether you're being you know, using more informal slang in a social context or if you are in a business meeting and therefore you have to be very clear and to the point and use more formal language, These are all things that you start to learn how to do and to become more aware of as you progress through, you know, different levels of English.
对
Yeah.
没错
Yeah.
我很想聊聊那个人。
I I'd love to talk of the person.
和你相处的人的年龄。
The age of the person that you're around.
对吧？
Right?
我以前的老板快七十岁了，是加拿大人。
Because my old boss is touching 70, and he's from Canada.
所以在办公室里，我根本不敢用伦敦西南区的俚语跟他说话。
So I wouldn't have dared use Southwest London slang in the office with him.
第一，那样我根本没法高效工作。
A, I wouldn't have been productive.
我的意思是，他当然能听懂我说的话。
I mean, you know, he's still gonna understand me.
第二，在那种场合这么做根本不合适。
And b, it's just not the right thing to do in that context.
当然，如果他本身想了解当地文化什么的，那又是另一回事了。
Unless, of course, he wanted to understand the culture and and whatever else, it's a bit different.
但就日常工作而言，如果我想高效完成任务，最明智的做法就是表达清楚，让人听懂。
But in the context of just doing work every day, if I wanted to get my work done and be efficient, it was in my best interest to be clear and understood.
所以有时候情境真的很重要，你身边的人群特征往往会影响你说话的方式。
So sometimes the context is really important and the demographic with which, you're around may determine how you speak.
对。
Mhmm.
没错。
Definitely.
好的。
Alright.
那我们继续吧。
So let's move on.
之前我们提到过，你在学西班牙语和葡萄牙语。
And, so we mentioned earlier that you are a learner of Spanish and Portuguese.
你能跟我聊聊你是怎么学西班牙语和葡萄牙语的吗？
Can you tell me about your learning of Spanish and your learning of Portuguese?
你为什么选了这两种语言？
Why did you choose those languages?
你是怎么学的？
How have you done it?
是的。
Yes.
没错。
Yeah.
西班牙语挺有意思的。
So Spanish is an interesting one.
在英国，大多数人中学时都会学一门语言。
I think with most people in The UK, you take a language in secondary school.
我当时学的是西班牙语和法语，但发现自己落得太远了。
I was actually taking Spanish and French, but I found that I was falling too far behind.
所以我干脆把这两门课都退了。
So I actually dropped the two languages.
但我一直到七年之后才重新开始学。
And I didn't pick it up until about seven years after.
那时候我在迈阿密上大学，身边都是说西班牙语的人。
So when I was in university in Miami, I was around a lot of Spanish speakers.
这让我意识到，我必须赶紧把西班牙语学起来。
And that taught me something that I need to learn Spanish ASAP.
我学了一些基础内容，比如打招呼和点餐，但还是没真正掌握这门语言。
I picked up the basics, basic greetings and how to order food, but I couldn't quite grasp the language.
幸运的是，大学里提供了一门及格或不及格的课程。
Fortunately, at university, they gave me the opportunity to take a pass fail class.
也就是说，这门课不按A、B、C评分，也不会计入你的GPA。
So what that means is that you're not graded A, B, C or it's not ranked in your GPA the same way.
只有及格和不及格两种结果。
It's pass or fail.
这门课要么过要么不过，压力小多了。
You can only pass or fail the class, so the stakes were quite low.
我选了这门课。
I took the class.
我通过了。
I passed it.
要求确实不高。
Stakes stakes were low.
我本来以为要求会很高，毕竟及格线一决定，我觉得只要及格……
I I would imagine the stakes would be high because depending on the pass mark, I feel like On the pass
说真的，及格线挺低的。
in in all respect, the pass mark was pretty low.
所以嘛，行吧。
So Okay.
我记得是60分或者70分及格。
I think it was a 60 or 70.
所以这门课并不难过。
So it wasn't the hardest class to pass.
那时候我身边有很多说西班牙语的人，他们在我备考过程中帮了我不少。
And I was around a lot of Spanish speakers who could help me on my journey towards passing the class.
但后来我发现，我其实没学到多少东西，只是勉强通过了这门课。
But what I found after is that I didn't actually learn much, I just passed the class.
我在迈阿密的时候，虽然已经通过了西班牙语课，但还是说不好这门语言，离我期望的水平差得远。
So I was in Miami, I had passed the Spanish class, I still couldn't speak the language as well as I would have liked.
几年后，我对自己说：其实你已经掌握了最基础的东西。
And then a few years passed and I thought to myself, you know what, you've got the basics or the very basics down.
你一直想学好这门语言。
You've always wanted to do this.
既然这样，为什么不认真学一学呢？
You know, why not actually learn it properly?
那段时间我正好有点空闲时间。
I had a bit of free time on my hands during this period.
大概是2019年到2020年左右吧。
I think it was about 2019, 2020.
我就对自己说，算了，干就完了。
And I said, you know what?
我一定要把这门语言学好。
I'm gonna learn this language.
我买了一本教材，那情景我永远忘不了。
So I put myself a textbook, I'll never forget.
我把所有练习都做了一遍。
I went through all the exercises.
我开始在iTalki上上课。
I started taking lessons on iTalki.
是啊。
Oh, yeah.
不好意思。
Sorry.
那本教材，是语法书吗？
The the textbook, was it a grammar book?
那是一本语法书，就像学校或大学里学西班牙语用的那种教材。
It was a grammar book, like a, you know, a Spanish textbook that you'd use in school or at university.
对。
Yeah.
我把所有练习都做了一遍，包括听力、笔头和阅读练习等等。
And I went through all the exercises, audio exercises, written exercises, reading exercises, etcetera.
我还通过italki上了课，好有人带着我系统地学语言。
I also took classes on italki to guide me through the language learning process.
这样我就有固定的人可以对话，帮我找准方向。
So I had somebody to speak to on a regular basis to point me in the right direction.
我在哥伦比亚上过语言交换课，后来在2020年去了拉丁美洲待了四个月。
I took classes at a language exchange school in Colombia and then went to Latin America for four months in 2020.
哥伦比亚、巴拿马、波多黎各，还有个地方，记不清了，再加上迈阿密。
Colombia, Panama, Puerto Rico, somewhere else, and Miami, I forget now.
那段旅程里还有个地方，我后来又回了迈阿密，因为那儿有很多朋友。
There's another place in that journey and I went back to Miami because I've got a lot of friends there.
我在那儿上了大学，待了挺长时间。
I went to university there, spent a lot of time there.
这次去迈阿密，我真能流利地说西班牙语了。
And this time when I went to Miami, I actually spoke Spanish properly.
那感觉特别好。
So it was great.
我能明显感觉到不一样。
And I felt the difference.
很多人对我特别友好，能流利说西班牙语在迈阿密和完全说不了，简直是天壤之别。
You know, I was well received by a lot of people and it's a very different experience when you're able to speak Spanish fluently in Miami to when you can't believe you meet us night and day.
所以我认真对待了整个语言学习过程。
So I took that language learning process seriously.
我还给自己定了个计划。
And I had a regime.
每天起床后，我都会读、听、写、说西班牙语。
Every day I'd wake up, I'd read, listen to something in Spanish, write, and speak.
如果我没法在italki上跟人交流，或者现实中找不到人说，我就自己录语音笔记，然后反复听。
If I couldn't speak to somebody on italki or speak to somebody in real life, I'd record myself in my voice notes and listen to it back.
我学这门语言特别较真。
I was militant about learning this language.
这个过程每天花的时间不一样，有时十五分钟，有时半小时，有时甚至一小时。
And this process sometimes took fifteen minutes a day, sometimes it took half an hour, sometimes an hour.
我尽量不去过度琢磨它。
I tried not to overly think about it.
对我来说，最重要的是坚持每天做一套固定的练习，直到水平真正提高。
The main thing for me was having a consistent regimen that I can do every day until I got better.
大概学了六个月，我才觉得自己真正流利了——就是这六个月密集学习，让我达到了流利的水平。
After about six months of learning that's when I'd say I became fluent, so six months of learning intensively that's when I became fluent.
几年来我一直经常说西班牙语，频繁去拉丁美洲，也常回迈阿密，因为那里还有很多朋友。
A few years past I've been speaking Spanish frequently, going to Latin America often, visiting Miami often because I've still got a lot of friends there.
2022年我去巴西待了一个月，但那时我一句巴西葡萄牙语都不会说。
And then I went to Brazil for a month in 2022, but I couldn't speak Brazilian Portuguese.
我意识到，如果我会说这门语言，我的体验会好很多。
And I noticed that my experience would have been better if I had spoken the language.
我试着用西班牙语交流，但效果并不好。
I tried to communicate in Spanish, wasn't really received well.
你可能想不到，在巴西说英语反而比说西班牙语更管用。
You're better off speaking in English than Spanish in Brazil, believe it or not.
我当时就想，下次再去巴西，要是我会说这门语言，情况肯定大不一样。
And I thought to myself, you know what, if I learn this language the next time I go to Brazil it'll be a lot better.
于是我决定学这门语言，用之前学西班牙语的方法自学巴西葡萄牙语，结果只用了一半的时间就掌握了。
So I decided to pick the language up, teach myself Brazilian Portuguese using the methods I'd used with Spanish and actually learned the language in half the amount of time.
我花了三个月就学会了葡萄牙语。
So I picked up Portuguese in three months.
我觉得这可能有两个原因，一是它和西班牙语非常相似。
I think it's because of one of two things, it's very similar to Spanish, right.
所以我早就掌握了动词变位、句式结构，而且很多词汇也差不多，虽然不是完全一样。
So I knew the basics of conjugation, sentence structure and a lot of the vocabulary is similar, not identical but similar.
但发音差别可大了。
Pronunciation is very different though.
所以我得好好适应这一点，不过因为之前已经掌握了西班牙语的基础，这次用同样的方法自学葡萄牙语，学得快多了。
So I had to get to grips with that But because I had the foundation of Spanish there, I taught myself Spanish recently, implementing the same process with Portuguese allowed me to fast track my learning.
三个月后我就流利了，之所以学它，是因为我在巴西玩得特别开心，我们很喜欢巴西文化，打算再回去，说不定哪天还打算住那儿。
After three months I became fluent and I decided to learn it because you know, I had a great time in Brazil, We like Brazilian culture, plan on going back, and hopefully, potentially one day living there.
如果真有这个打算，会说当地语言肯定没错。
So it'll be a good idea to speak the language if that's my plan.
是的。
Yeah.
太好了。
Well, great.
真厉害。
Wow.
真是个成功的例子。
Real success story.
那你给我举个例子吧，比如你平时用巴西葡萄牙语做的三十分钟或一小时的日常安排是怎样的？
So give me a give me a sample of, like, a, I don't know, thirty minute or one hour routine that you might do with Brazilian Portuguese, if
当然可以。
you can.
当然。
Absolutely.
首先，我一醒来就会做点什么。
So first things first, I'll wake up.
我会写点东西。
I'll write something.
比如今天打算做什么，昨天做了什么，或者我在语言学习上有什么目标之类的。
You know, what I plan to do today, what I did yesterday, what my goals are with the language or whatever.
就花个五到十分钟，不会太折腾。
Just a quick five to ten minute ordeal, nothing crazy.
写什么都行，主要是养成用这门语言写作的习惯。
It can be about anything, but just to get into the habit of writing the language.
其次，如果我要听东西，最好是新闻，而且一定要用巴西葡萄牙语。
Secondly, if I'm going to listen to something, the news ideally, it will be in Brazilian Portuguese.
每个新闻机构都有巴西版的频道。
So every news outlet has a Brazilian version.
对吧？
Right?
我会听BBC巴西新闻、德国之声巴西频道，还有几个讲时事的巴西内容创作者。
So I listen to BBC News Brazil, DW Brazil, and a few other Brazilian content creators that talk about current affairs.
我会去他们的YouTube频道或者Spotify上的播客，听个五到十分钟。
I'll go into their channel or their podcast on Spotify, listen to something for about five to ten minutes.
之后，如果我在地铁或公交车上，我通常会看书。
After that, I will read typically if I'm on the train or on the bus.
我这儿有个Kindle。
I've got my Kindle here.
我下载了不少用目标语言写的书，随时可以读。
So I've got a bunch of books downloaded in the target language I'll read.
这样下来大概要花十到二十分钟。
So that can take ten, twenty minutes.
然后到了一天中的某个时候，如果我没上italki的课，也没跟人面对面交流，我就会录自己说话，用语音备忘录。
And then after at some point in the day, if I don't have a class on italki or if I haven't spoken to somebody in real life, I will record myself speaking to myself and my voice notes.
最少五分钟，有时候能到十分钟。
And this can be five minutes at a minimum, potentially ten minutes.
这样你每天都能练习口语。
But in this way you're practicing speaking on a daily basis.
跟别人说确实更有帮助，毕竟学语言的最终目的就是能跟人交流。
So it's helpful to speak to other people because that's the purpose of learning a language, Ideally you want to be speaking to others.
但如果实在没别人可说，录语音自言自语也行。
But if not, you can always kind of speak to your voice notes.
为了保持效率，我只能靠固定的习惯，每天都坚持做点什么。
For me to maintain that efficiency, the only way to do so is to have a routine where I'm doing something consistently.
有时候这意味着你不能总指望别人。
And sometimes that may mean you can't rely on others.
你得自己动手做。
You need to do things yourself.
对。
Yeah.
要坚持，努力练习听、说、读、写这四项技能。
Consistency, trying to do the four skills, listening, reading, speaking, writing.
那记单词呢？
What about recording vocab?
你会不会把单词写在笔记本里之类的？你是怎么做的？
Do you do you record vocabulary in a notebook or something like that, and and how do you
这么做。
do it
如果你这么做的话？
if you do it?
刚开始学语言的时候，记单词我一般用闪卡，虽然这方法挺老派的。
So for for vocabulary in the very beginning of the language learning process, what I tend to do I know it's very old school, flashcards.
是的
Yeah.
我用的是种闪卡技巧，就是一堆闪卡。
It's like a flashcard hack method where I've got a bunch of flashcards.
正面写单词，背面写解释，全用目标语言来写。
I've got the word written, then a description on the back, but everything is done in the target language.
我尽量避免用母语翻译，这样就不会在脑子里来回翻译，而是直接用目标语言思考。
I try to stay away from translations so that this way I'm not translating in my head, I'm thinking in the target language.
不过要达到这个阶段，可能得先经过翻译阶段，再慢慢过渡到完全用目标语言，这个我完全理解。
To get to that point though you may need to do a translation method first and then move into the point where you're doing everything in the target language, I do understand that.
比如刚开始学西班牙语的时候，我会列个清单，西班牙语词、英语翻译、再加个西班牙语的解释，好有个母语的参照。
At the very beginning when I was learning Spanish for example, I'll have a list of words in Spanish, then English, then I'll have the description in Spanish so that I had some reference point in my mother tongue.
但学葡萄牙语的时候我就没这么干，直接用单词加解释，慢慢反复看这些解释，就自然在语境里记住了词。
But when I was learning Portuguese I didn't do that, I just went the word description and over time reading these descriptions over and over again I've got the word in context.
不过我也明白，有些人还是得靠母语当跳板才能过渡过去。
But I do understand that for some people they need their mother tongue to jump from one to the other.
想直接跳过去是不可能的。
It's impossible make that jump.
因为我之前学过西班牙语，所以有些词的拼写或者开头部分和西班牙语很像，能给我一些线索。
Because I'd learned Spanish previously, there were a few context clues in the words or at the beginning of a word the spelling may be the same as the beginning of a Spanish word.
所以我能大概猜出它们的意思。
So I can kind of put two and two together.
举个例子，西班牙语里的‘tradicion’，在葡萄牙语里就是‘tradicao’。
To give you an example, a words like tradicion in Spanish, in Portuguese would be tradicao.
看到‘tradis’这部分，我就知道这大概意思是‘传统’。
So tradis, I kind of knew, okay, that means tradition.
然后继续看下一个词。
And then move on to the next one.
我学葡萄牙语的时候就是这么一步步来的。
And that's how I went with from there with my Portuguese.
那你不会试着把这些词放在语境里理解吗？
Do that do you not try and put these words in context?
你是说，嗯。
Are you Yeah.
所以我通常会记句子。
So I would sentences.
在句子里面。
In sentences.
对。
Yeah.
用闪卡法的时候，我会在一面写单词，另一面写句子。
So with the flashcard method, I'll have a word on one side, then I'll have a sentence on the other side.
这样能帮我记住这个词在上下文中的意思。
And that will help me to remember, okay, this is what this means in context.
如果我猜错了，就把卡片放到一边。
And if, you know, I guess wrong, I put the pile on one side.
如果猜对了，就放到另一边。
If I guess right, it goes on the right side.
对。
Yeah.
然后一直反复练习
Then just smashing
对。
Yeah.
一直这样反复练习，直到我觉得足够自信能开口说话，或者觉得不再需要继续这样做为止。
And then just keep smashing that out until I feel comfortable enough to to speak or I feel comfortable enough that I don't need to keep doing this.
我可以直接进行正常的对话，以后再慢慢补上那些还不太熟练的部分。
I can just actually have normal conversations and then brush up on the things that I'm not too good at at some point in the future.
但我尽量不让自己因为不懂几个词就停下学习的脚步。
But I try not to let the fact that I don't understand a few things stop me from learning.
对吧？
Right?
别在这上面纠结太多。
Try not to get too hung up on that.
继续往前走就行。
Just keep moving forward.
慢一点总比不进步好。
Slow progress is better than no progress.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
也不用追求完美。
And it's not perfection.
对啊。
Yeah.
你懂的。
You know?
不可能要求自己百分之百完美，关键是要看到自己正在学的、在进步的部分，其他那些，以后再慢慢处理吧。
You can't really expect a 100% perfection, but you have to just acknowledge the the bits that you're learning and progressing with, and the other stuff is just stuff that you're gonna deal with later on, I guess, at some point.
我觉得，如果可能的话，搬到一个说那种语言的地方，沉浸在当地文化里，会很有帮助。
And I and I think, trying to consume the culture, so moving to a place would be very helpful if possible.
但如果做不到，至少可以把手机或者电子设备的语言设置成目标语言，逼自己每天都要用它互动。
But if not, you know, turning your phone settings or your electronic settings into the target language so you're forced to interact with the language daily.
你要看书的话，为什么不直接看目标语言的原版呢？
If you're gonna read a book, why not read a book in the target language?
你要看视频内容，为什么不选目标语言的呢？
If you're gonna watch content, why not watch content in the target language?
你要听音乐，那就听目标语言的歌曲吧。
If you're gonna listen to music, well, consume music in the target language.
这些方法其实也都挺有效的。
These things are certainly helpful as well.
我有个小问题，关于用目标语言看内容的时候。
Quick question about watching content in the target language.
你更喜欢开字幕还是不开字幕？
Subtitles or no subtitles for you?
刚开始的时候，我觉得用字幕挺有帮助的。
At the beginning, yeah, I think it's helpful.
如果你觉得听不懂，那当然可以用。
And if you're struggling to understand, then yes.
这没有绝对的规矩，毕竟我们之前提到过口音问题，有些口音真的很难懂。
I don't think it's a hard or fast rule because to our point earlier about accents, some accents are very difficult to understand.
比如我可能会看一部在西班牙阿利坎特拍的剧，那里的西班牙语很清晰，特别容易听懂。
So I may watch a show from, that's done in Alicante, Spain where the Spanish to me is clean, very easy to understand.
但如果你换一部智利的剧，那个口音可能就难懂多了。
And then, you know, you may put on a show from Chile and that may be a very difficult accent to understand.
这种情况下，加字幕就很有必要。
So you may need to subtitle.
所以这得看具体情况。
So it really depends.
而且这跟你的语言水平没关系。
And this is irrespective of your level.
你可能是A1或者B2水平，但依然听不懂来自古巴或多米尼加的人说话。
You could be technically c one or b two and still have difficulties understanding somebody from Cuba or Dominican Republic.
你明白吧？
You know?
所以这真的要看具体情况，但我建议你尽量尝试关掉字幕。
So it really it really depends, but I think you should try to aim to turn the subtitles off if possible.
但如果需要，那就开着吧。
But if you need them, you need them.
说实话，有时候我听英语节目也得靠字幕。
I mean, sometimes I need them in English.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我也是。
Same.
是的。
Yeah.
因为你知道，人们常常忘了，一部剧或电影难懂，原因不止是英语水平的问题。
Because, you know, again, people forget there are other factors involved in why a TV show or film might be difficult to understand.
这不光是你英语好不好就能决定的。
It's not just because of your English level.
我以前说过很多次了，比如现在电视剧的录制方式，还有我们通常用小音箱或者手机这类设备来听，对吧？
And I've talked about this quite a lot that, for example, the way that TV shows are recorded these days, and the way that we listen to them often on a device, you know, with a small speaker or something like that.
是的。
Yeah.
但话说回来，演员们用的麦克风特别小、特别灵敏。
But, yeah, the the the way that actors, are recorded, they have these very small, tiny little microphones which are very sensitive.
结果呢，我不知道是不是因为录音技术的影响，但现在的很多剧集风格都追求极致真实。
And as a result, like, the style of shows I don't know if it's a result of the recording techniques, but certainly the style of many TV shows these days is, like, to be hyper realistic.
对话里全是含糊不清的嘟囔，跟过去的老电影电视剧不一样，那时候的表演更像舞台剧，演员说话字正腔圆，特别清楚。
And there's a lot of mumbly mumbled dialogue unlike in the olden days of movies and TV shows, which were a lot more like theater performances where the actors would be delivering their lines of dialogue incredibly clearly like this.
现在呢，对话都含含糊糊的，好多地方根本听不清。
These days, they're just like, you know, there's a lot of mumbled dialogue and a lot you can hardly hear anything.
把这些因素合起来看。
Two and two together.
这话说得在理。
That's a good point.
说实话，我以前从来没注意过这一点。
You know, I never actually clocked on to that.
是的。
Yeah.
还有背景噪音。
And, also, there's background noise.
你能听到街上的声音，或者别的什么杂音，总之就是场景里那种环境的嘈杂声。
You hear the street noise or whatever it is or just the general hubbub of the background of the situation they're in.
另外还有背景音乐。
And then there's music as well.
而且很多电视剧在视觉上首先注重画面表达，对话声就混在背景音里，常常听得不清不楚。
And then often TV shows are visually they're, first of all, they focus on visual communication, and the the the the dialogue just sort of melts into the sound the general sound, and it's often very unclear to to try.
所以很多母语者看剧时，不管是在手机还是电脑上，都会打开字幕，因为真的很难听清内容。
And so this is why many native speakers put subtitles on when they're watching shows, on their phones or on their computers or whatever just because it's often very hard to hear Yeah.
人们到底在说什么。
What people are saying.
你知道的。
You know?
是的。
Yeah.
确实如此。
This is true.
确实如此。
This is true.
是的。
Yeah.
但话说回来，好吧。
But also Okay.
我主要通过YouTube和其他网络短视频来消费内容。
I consume content by way of YouTube and other forms of short form content on the Internet.
不只是看Netflix和电视。
So it's not just Netflix and TV.
我喜欢听葡萄牙语和西班牙语的YouTube博主。
I like to listen to the YouTubers in Portuguese and Spanish.
这也有帮助。
That helps as well.
我觉得这更有用，因为人们在网上说话更自然。
And I think that helps a bit more because people tend to speak in a more natural fashion online.
他们就是在做自己。
They're being themselves.
当然，我也可能想错了。
I mean, I could be wrong.
他们可能在装，但至少感觉更真实一些。
They could be putting on an but at least it seems more authentic.
我觉得这种口音或表达方式，才是你日常生活中真正会接触到的。
And I think that's the kind of accent or language that you'll engage with on a day to day basis.
所以这也是我喜欢看的内容。
So that's the kind of stuff I like to consume as well.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得，当有人拍YouTube视频或者做播客的时候，他们往往更随性，不像演员那样要背别人写好的剧本，而且那剧本可能几个月前就写好了。
I think maybe when someone's doing a YouTube video or a podcast, they're perhaps being more spontaneous rather than an actor reading dialogue from a script that they've had to remember and which was written by someone else, like, months earlier.
你懂的。
You know?
这样一来，语言自然就显得不够自然，有点做作。
That naturally, that ends up resulting in that slightly less natural and more contrived language.
而那些在自己卧室里拍YouTube视频的人，反而更真实，更贴近人们平时说话的方式，尤其是当你想到商务会议的时候。
Whereas someone making a YouTube video in their bedroom, it's actually a lot more authentic and closer to the way that people actually speak, especially when you think about a business meeting.
看别人在YouTube上跟你说话，跟听人在Zoom通话里跟你聊天，其实差别没那么大。
Like watching someone talk to you on YouTube is not that far away from listening to someone talk to you in a Zoom call.
挺相似的。
It's similar.
所以，听播客或YouTube视频的收获，跟听电话会议或商务通话差不多，应该也是可以互相借鉴的。
So probably quite transferable in terms of the value of listening to someone on a podcast or YouTube is similar to a conference call or a telephone call or something like that.
是的。
Yeah.
我们差不多该收尾了，不过我突然想问你个完全不相关的问题。
It's nearly time for us to finish, but I just actually wanted to ask you just a random, totally different thing.
我知道你以前花了很多时间踢足球，好像还当过一段时间的半职业球员。
Like, I know that, you've spent a lot of time playing football, and you were a semi professional, I think, for a while.
你其实是靠着体育奖学金去美国留学，一边读书一边踢球的。
You you you that in fact, you went to The United States on a kind of sporting scholarship to study there and to play soccer, to play football.
说到足球，世界杯快到了，这次在北美举办。
So on the subject of football, the World Cup is coming up, and it's in North America.
是的。
Yeah.
我不确定。
I don't know.
你觉得呢？
I, what do you think?
今年世界杯你有什么预测吗？
Have you got any predictions for the World Cup this year?
你觉得怎么样？
What what do you think?
你知道吗？
You know what?
我觉得会有点意外。
I think we're in for a surprise.
我不太确定。
I'm not sure.
我觉得这跟实力没什么关系。
And I don't think this is based on merit or anything.
按纸面实力来看，法国队应该能拿冠军。
I think on paper, potentially, France should bag it.
法国队应该能赢。
France should win.
但不知怎么的，我总觉得巴西队今年世界杯会有惊人表现。
But something tells me Brazil's gonna do something this World Cup.
我说不上来具体是为什么。
I don't know what it is.
也不是因为我正在学巴西葡萄牙语。
And it's not because I'm learning Brazilian Portuguese.
就是心里有种直觉，觉得巴西队会有所作为。
Something in my spirit just tells me that Brazil are going to do something.
我也说不清原因。
I don't know why.
我也说不清为什么。
I don't know why.
你呢？
What about you?
你是说像赢球，或者第一轮就出局？
You mean do something like win or do something like lose in the first round?
不是。
No.
至少能走得远一点。
At least make it far in the tournament.
对，就是这样。
Like Yeah.
给世人留下点印象。
Make a mark for themselves.
没错。
Yeah.
没错，完全对。
Again Absolutely.
过一阵子吧。
In a while.
对吧？
Right?
我觉得2002年是他们上一次赢得世界杯。
I think 2002 was the last time they they won the World Cup.
巴西已经很久没拿过冠军了。
It's been a long time for Brazil.
是啊。
Yeah.
过去几年巴西队的经历可谓跌宕起伏。
It's been a bit of a roll a bumpy ride for Brazil over the last few years.
很明显，那场惨败是什么时候来着？
Obviously, there's the the the debacle of when was it?
应该是2014年，对德国那场。
2014, I think it was, against Germany.
咱们还是别提这事了。
We should probably not talk about it.
我可不想让巴西的听众听了心里难受。
Just I don't wanna traumatize my Brazilian listeners.
不过当然了，巴西队再差也不能小看，他们历来就是强队。
But, yeah, of course, Brazil, you should never ever underestimate them even despite previous form.
我的意思是，他们传奇的地位一直都在。
I mean, of course, they are legendary and still are.
没错。
So yeah.
当然了。
Absolutely.
他们永远都是夺冠热门之一。
They they're they've always got to be one of the favorites.
是的
Yeah.
不过我觉得这次他们未必是热门。
I don't think they're the favorites this time around, though.
很多人已经不看好他们了。
I think they've been written off by a lot of people.
所以
So
咱们走着瞧吧，但我相信他们会有所作为。
we shall see, but I think they'll do something special.
至于英格兰，我觉得他们不会有什么表现。
England, on the other hand, I don't think I'm gonna do anything.
我觉得他们会让人失望。
I think gonna be a cause of a love.
他们会成为心碎的根源。
They're gonna be the cause of a loss of heartbreak.
但是
But
不过也是。
But yeah.
他们一直都是这样。
They always are.
是的。
Yeah.
我不清楚。
I don't know.
我真说不上来，因为我最近根本没怎么关注。
I've got no idea because I actually haven't really been keeping up with it.
但我特别喜欢国际足球。
But I love international football.
我特别喜欢世界杯足球赛。
I love World Cup football.
我其实没有支持哪支俱乐部，就是本地的英超球队。
I don't actually have a club, you know, a local a premiership club.
没这个条件。
Not a way
说真的。
to be fair.
挪威也是，说真的。
Norway, to be fair.
我也没怎么关注。
I haven't really kept up with it as well.
我现在说的这些，都是根据偶尔看到的一些比赛片段，法国队确实不错。
What I'm saying now is just based on a few things I've seen here or that here and there, France look good.
法国队确实挺强的。
France do look good.
对。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
我也这么觉得。
I think so.
当然，阿根廷也是。
Obviously, Argentina, too.
好吧。
Okay.
说实话，我真是等不及了。
Well, you know, I can't wait.
我简直盼着世界杯热潮早点到来，这次居然在墨西哥、美国和加拿大举办，想想还挺特别的。
Basically, I'm can't wait for World Cup fever to to come around, and it's gonna be interesting that it's in in, you know, Mexico, United States, Canada.
这情况确实挺有意思的。
That's kind of an interesting situation.
我倒有个小故事，跟足球有关，你可能会感兴趣，尤其是你有巴西背景。
I actually have one little anecdote, football related anecdote that you might appreciate, especially with your sort of Brazilian connection.
我以前在伦敦一家语言学校工作，每周三下午没课，我们就把老师和一些学生聚在一起，去西伦敦的拉文斯科特公园散步。
So, I used to work in a language school in London, And every Wednesday afternoon, there were no classes, and we would, like, get a bunch of the teachers and some of the learners would all get together, and we'd go down to the park in Ravenscourt Park in West London.
是的。
Oh, yeah.
那里有几块室外的人造草皮足球场，我们就去踢球。
And where they have some, outdoor sort of Astroturf football pitches, and we'd go and play football.
当时学校的学生来自世界各地，大家经常一起踢五人制甚至更多人的足球，特别热闹。
And we had, you know, obviously, learners of English from all around the world, and we would have these great games of, you know, five a side or more football together.
有一年，学校里来了个学生，是巴西世界杯冠军队的成员。
And we had a student at the school one year who was a Brazilian World Cup winner.
他是1994年巴西国家队的成员之一，当时正在我们学校学英语。
So a guy who was in the international the Brazilian international team, part of the squad in 1994, and he was learning English with us at the school.
真的吗？
Oh, wow.
后来他进了媒体行业。
Gone into he'd gone into media.
他当时做电视主持人，想提高英语水平。
He was like a TV presenter and wanted to improve his English.
他叫诺……
His name was no.
我发音不太准，但你可能听说过他，他在法国挺有名的。
I can't pronounce it very well, but I don't know if you know the player because he's quite well known in France.
哈伊达·奥利维拉，你认识叫哈伊达的球员吗？
But Haida Oliveira, do you know a player called Haida?
我……
I
那应该是我还没开始看球的时候了。
think that's before my time.
没错。
Definitely.
确实早于你的时代了。
Definitely before your time.
所以我们说的是九十年代中期。
So we're talking, like, mid nineties.
他
He
是
was the
他是桑托斯的弟弟，那位传奇的巴西球员。
brother he is the brother of Socrates, legendary Brazilian player.
我听说过他。
I know of him.
我知道桑托斯。
I know Socrates.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
所以这就是苏格拉底的弟弟。
So this is Socrates' brother.
我不太确定该怎么拼，是 R A I。
I don't know how you'd say it, r a I.
在巴西葡萄牙语里，这个发音怎么说？
How do you say that in Brazilian Portuguese?
应该是这样。
That would be.
那个 R 的发音，有点像我们用 H 的那种音。
The r is pronounced more like an what we would use an h for.
对，没错。
So Yeah.
前几天我还专门拍了个视频讲这个。
I actually made a video about this the other day.
对英语母语者来说，把 R 换成 H 确实挺难的。
Can be very difficult for English speakers switching out the r for an h.
任何位于词首或词中的 r，发音都会更接近 h。
Any r at the beginning of a word or r r in the middle of a word will sound more like an h.
比如 'car'，虽然拼写是 carro，但实际读起来更像是 'cajo'。
So car, if you read it, it sounds like it looks like carro, but it's really cajo.
还有 'Rio'，比如 'Rio De Janeiro'，就直接读作 'Rio De Janeiro'。
And Rio, like Rio De Janeiro, would be Rio De Janeiro.
所以当你看到这个 r 时，它的发音就像 h。
So when you see that r, it sounds like an h.
但如果 r 在词中间是单独出现的，那它还是会发 r 的音。
But if an r is singular in the middle of a word, it sounds like an r.
明白了。
Okay.
好的。
Alright.
明白了。
Okay.
所以在词中间，但这里是词首，比如这个‘high’
So in the middle of a word, but at the beginning so this is high
在词尾的时候。
end of a word.
而在词尾，就像这样。
And at the end of the word like, like that.
总之，当 r 出现在词首或双 r 在词中时，听起来像 h。
Anyway So it sounds like an h when it's at the beginning and in the middle if it's a double r.
但如果词尾只有一个 r，它就会发成 r 的音。
But if there's an r at the end of a word by itself, it will sound like an r.
所以‘说’这个单词是 falar。
So the word for speak is falar.
falar，你听得到词尾的 r。
Falar, you hear that r at the end.
car 在我们听来像 caro，但其实发音就是 caro，还有 rio，不是 rio，而是 rio。
Car, which is to us, it would sound like Caro, but really it's Caro, and then Rio, Rio instead of Rio.
这些是我刚开始说巴西葡萄牙语时必须慢慢适应的一些地方。
And those are a few things that I had to really get used to when speaking Brazilian Portuguese.
没错。
Right.
对。
Right.
当时我们学校里有个巴西足球传奇人物，他是1994年世界杯冠军队的成员，正在这儿学英语。
So this so this legend of Brazilian football who was in the World Cup winning squad of 94 was learning English at our school.
有一周三下午，我们说服他下来和我们一起踢球。
And one Wednesday afternoon, we persuaded him to come down and play football with us.
那场面简直太棒了。
And, it was amazing.
他当然是学校里的大明星。
Like, he was a big star at the school, of course.
他来的那天，来了好多人，都想跟他一起踢球。
And the day that he came, so many other people came to play football with him.
所以我跟他一队，我和这位赢得过世界杯的巴西球星踢同一队。
So he was I was on the same team as him, so I played on the same team as this Brazilian World Cup winner.
我们队里还有个男生，我怎么都想不起来他到底是哪儿的人。
And also on our team, we had a guy and I can't, for the life of me, remember where he was from.
他可能是中国人，但我也不确定。
He might have been from China, but I'm not sure.
但有个人，我敢说，这辈子从来没踢过足球。
But there was this guy, I swear, had never played football in his life.
对吧？
Right?
所以咱们队里，一边是赢得世界杯的巴西传奇，另一边是个从来没踢过球的人。
And so on our team, we had a World Cup winning Brazilian legend and a guy who'd never played football in his life on the same team.
旁边的人都笑翻了。
You got a laugh by the side.
是啊。
Yeah.
那真是太神奇了。
It it was amazing.
我当时站在中间，把自己放在了这两个极端之间——就足球水平而言，我可能更接近那个从来没踢过球的人。
And then me in the middle, and I sort of placed myself right in the middle of those two, extremes in terms of my football playing ability, maybe closer to the guy who's never played football before.
不过，说实话，能说自己和一位巴西世界杯冠军队友踢过球，这经历真的很有趣。
But, yeah, that's that was a fun experience being able to you know, I can say that I played in the same team as a Brazilian World Cup winner.
是的。
Yeah.
这挺有意思的。
That's interesting.
这挺有意思的。
That's interesting.
我觉得我可说不出这种话。
I don't think I could say that.
嗯，话是这么说，但我觉得你加入我们队的话，肯定也能派上用场。
Well, yeah, but still, we I think we coulda coulda used you on our team regardless.
是的
Yeah.
你还在踢足球吗？
Do you still play football?
偶尔会踢一下。
Every now and again.
偶尔会踢，但没我想要的那么多，时间安排不上。
Every now and again, but not as much as I would like, but the schedule doesn't permit.
明白。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
你踢什么位置？
And what what position do you play?
前锋。
Striker.
是的。
Yeah.
在前锋位置。
Upfront.
明白了。
So Okay.
我不是那种高产射手。
Not a big time goal scorer.
我更擅长串联和支点型的踢法。
I'm more of a link up player, hold up player.
不过，没错，我确实是在前场活动。
But, yeah, up front is where I am.
好的。
Okay.
行。
Alright.
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