吉姆·克莱默的疯狂金钱节目 3/31/26

现在每台桌面电脑实际上都像一台服务器一样运行。

Every desktop now effectively behaves like a server.

这就像是在运行一个无人监管的AI工具。

It's like they'd have unsupervised AI tool operating.

这种情况可能让人感觉，即使那些技术并不熟练的人，也可能没有意识到自己点击一下，就可能毁掉他们所服务的整个机构。

What this maybe feels like is it someone who may not be all that skilled may not realize they can click on something, and that could end the practice of whoever they're working for.

听好了，吉姆，这些新的AI模型产生的能力，远比人类适应、采纳和理解它们的速度要快。

Look, Jim, these new AI models are producing capability much faster than humans are able to adapt, adopt and understand them.

突然间，你发现Open Claw在周末出现了。

Suddenly, see Open Claw show up on a weekend.

现在有多种不同类型的Claw，它们是能帮你自动化任务的代理。

Now there's many different kinds of Claws, which are agents that can help you automate tasks.

猜猜怎么着？

Well, guess what?

这些代理需要获得你的许可，才能执行这些任务。

These agents need your permission to be able to go execute these tasks.

我跟大家说一件我们最近遇到的事，有一个智能代理在一套基础设施里尝试完成某项任务。

I'll tell you an incident we saw recently as an agent was trying to get something done in an infrastructure.

它发现自己做不到，因为没有执行这项操作的权限。

It realized that wasn't able didn't have the permissions to do it.

结果这个代理居然擅自重写了权限规则，绕过了安全机制。

The agent decided to rewrite the permissions so it could obviate the security.

没错。

Right.

所以你一定要小心。

So you gotta be careful.

这些智能代理需要管控机制。

These agents need governance.

它们需要受到监管。

They need control.

它们还需要紧急终止开关。

They need kill switches.

我所说的这些支撑结构，AI领域还没有建立起来。

None of that scaffolding, as I call it, has been built for AI.

因此，必须做到的是，这些AI实验室需要确保建立正确的支撑结构，以实现对AI的治理和控制。

So part of what needs to happen is these AI labs need to make sure the right scaffolding exists to provide the governance and control for AI.

如果没有这些，整个局面就会彻底失控。

Without that, we're gonna all hell's gonna break loose.

你怎么能让对的人来做这些事？

How do you get the right people to do that stuff?

为什么他们就是好人呢？

How come they're the good guys?

什么？

Sorry?

如果你是个坏人，现在赚的钱比当好人多得多。

Well, if you're a bad guy, you can make a lot more money than being a good guy right now.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，我从来没见过有人坐牢。

I mean, I never seen anybody in jail.

那些坐牢的人在哪里？

Where are the people in jail?

利文沃思监狱里有没有专门关押这类人的区域？

Is there like a special wing of Leavenworth for these people?

有一群人非常希望确保技术以负责任的方式得到应用。

Like, there's a whole set of people who wanna make sure that technology gets deployed in a responsible fashion.

这些人都是好人。

These are good people.

这些就是好人。

These are the good people.

他们在网络安全行业工作。

They work in the cybersecurity industry.

他们也在科技行业工作。

They also work in the technology industry.

你知道吗，是CyberArk的人最先告诉我的。

You know, the CyberArk guys are the guys who first told me this.

他们说，如果这些人不能离开，我们就得有人盯着。

They said, you know, we have to have guys if they if they they can't leave.

我们甚至不能让他们离开。

We can't even have them leave.

这太重要了。

It's too important.

你也有同样的态度。

You got that same attitude.

现在可以称他们为帕洛阿尔托的人了，因为我们完成了收购。

Call them the Palo Alto guys now because we closed the acquisition

我知道你们收购了，我很喜欢那些人。

I know you did, and I love those guys.

那些人全心全意地致力于这个理念。

Those are guys who are dedicated to the proposition.

这些人是特权访问管理的发明者。

Guys who invented privileged access management.

他们认为，科技领域中有一些人需要受到保护。

They're the guys who said that there are certain people in technology who should be protected.

他们的凭证应当受到保护。

Their credentials should be protected.

如果他们的凭证被盗，大型基础设施系统可能会瘫痪。

If their credential gets stolen, large infrastructure systems can be brought down.

因此，将IT管理员视为特权访问人员的想法由此产生。

So that is where the idea of treating IT administrators as privileged access people came about.

如今，几乎每两个使用科技的人中，就有一个需要被认定为特权用户。

Today, almost every second person using technology has to be deemed as privileged.

我不就是我自己的电子邮件的特权访问用户吗？

Am I not a privileged access user of my own email?

没错。

I am.

如果我的邮箱被黑了，我会登上报纸的头版。

If my email gets hacked, I show up in the front page of the newspaper.

那些人有趣吗？

How fun are those guys?

不过他们可是硬汉。

They're tough guys, though.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Right.

跟我说说和他们一起工作是什么感觉吧，我得告诉你，我简直太崇拜他们了。

Tell me what it's like to work with them because I I gotta tell you, I I I I was totally into those guys.

嗯，CyberArk是一家很棒的公司。

Well, look, CyberArk was a great company.

我们非常高兴且荣幸能成为Palo Alto的一部分。

We're very pleased and delighted that they gave us the honor of being part of Palo Alto.

他们在以色列有一支庞大的团队。

They have a large contingent of people in Israel.

我们也是。

So do we.

我跟你说，考虑到地缘政治局势如此动荡，以色列的韧性团队每天依然准时到岗，竭尽全力保护全球科技基础设施，这简直让我难以置信。

And I tell you what, the resiliency teams show in Israel with everything going on geopolitically, the fact that they show up every day to come to work and try and do their best work to protect the world's technology infrastructure just boggles my mind.

他们不仅是CyberArk的杰出人才，也是Palo Alto那些努力维护网络安全旗帜的人，真的非常了不起。

They're just amazing people, not just at CyberArk, but also at Palo Alto who are trying to keep the cyber flag flying high.

好的。

Okay.

现在最后一件事是，我刚接触这个行业时，他们总是对我说：听好了。

Now the last thing is I went when I I first got introduced to the industry from them, and they always said to me, listen.

我们让每个人都随时待命。

We make everybody available.

如果这个人、这个人出了问题……

Something goes wrong with this guy, this guy.

他们以前会把他带到片场。

There's they used to bring him to the set.

我一直在想，比如说，如果我使用了Anthropic的网络安全服务，结果出了问题。

One of the things that I I keep thinking let's say I was using the the anthropic cybersecurity and something goes wrong.

我该找谁呢？

Who do I call there?

是那个叫达里奥的人吗？

Is that the fellow Dario?

我是说，那个最高负责人？

I mean, the top guy?

也许可以直接给他打个电话。

Maybe even give him a jingle.

更有可能的是，没有人能独立于网络安全公司来使用AI模型进行网络安全工作。

More than likely, nobody is gonna be able to use the AI models independently of cybersecurity companies for cybersecurity.

好的。

Okay.

会发生的是，这些模型将增强我们的安全能力，让某些事情变得更快，同时我们已经做的很多工作，比如部署传感器、构建传感器，仍然需要保留。

What's gonna happen is these models will power our security capabilities and make certain things faster whilst there'll be whole host of things that we already do where we sit on sensors, build sensors.

所以这必须是一种合作关系。

So we'll it'll have to be a partnership.

必须携手合作。

It'll have to be together.

人工智能会让网络安全工作变得更好、更快、质量更高，但这是市场所不理解的。

And AI is gonna make cybersecurity work better, faster, with higher quality, but that's what the market doesn't understand.

好的。

Okay.

最后一件事，有一家医疗科技公司，是一家不错的公司。

Last thing, there was a company, med med tech play, pretty good company.

我看了他们的办公楼，上面写的不是他们的名字。

I looked at their building and it wasn't their name.

上面写的是‘Rain Iran’。

It had a rain Iran.

伊朗人黑了那栋楼的灯。

The the Iranians hacked the lights of the building.

是的。

Yes.

这场伊朗战争比我们想象的要复杂得多，他们在当坏人这方面还挺在行的，对吧？

This Iranian war has got a little bit more than we think when it they're not bad at this at being bad guys, are they?

听好了。

Look.

世界上有一些国家在防御性和进攻性网络安全方面都具备了专业能力。

There are certain countries around the world who have developed an expertise in both defensive and offensive cybersecurity.

其中一些国家只将其用于防御目的。

Some of them use it for defensive purposes.

就像我刚才告诉你的例子，你知道的，有四五千人在我们以色列的办公室里工作。

As I just told you the example, you know, four, five thousand people sitting in our offices in Israel.

也有一些人非常擅长进攻性网络行动。

There are people who are very good at it offensively.

嗯，这可能不错。

Well, it might be good.

CyberArk 的人可能确实对某些事情很敏感。

The CyberArk guys might actually be tuned to some of the things.

他们对某些事情非常敏感，我认为我们所构建的一些东西正是针对这些公司的应对方案和解决方案。

They are very tuned to some of the things, and I think part of what we build are antidotes and solutions to those companies.

是的，正如我所说，有时这些公司会被入侵。

And yes, as I said, sometimes those companies get breached.

我们会介入帮助他们恢复基础设施。

We step in to help them bring back their infrastructure.

我不知道你有没有看到最近有一篇博客文章，你提到的那家公司实际上说，我们的团队在帮助他们恢复运行方面起到了关键作用。

I don't if you saw there was a blog post recently where the same company you mentioned actually said that our team was instrumental in bringing them back up to up and running.

没有。

No.

而且那

And that

那就是为什么把它带来

was that's why bring it

上来。

up.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我还要提一件事。

And I'm gonna bring up one more thing.

再次强调，一千万美元是实实在在的钱。

Again, $10,000,000 is real money.

你没注意到。

You don't look.

我见过有人用股票买五十万美元来拉高股价，你会说，这人是在操纵行情。

I've seen guys buy $500,000 with a stock for rich, and you say, that person's painting the tape.

我从未见过有人拿出一千万，除非他们认为这只股票还会继续上涨。

I've never seen anyone put 10,000,000 down unless they thought the stock was gonna go higher.

吉姆，我很荣幸能在帕洛阿尔托工作了将近八年。

Well, Jim, I've had the privilege of working at Palo Alto for almost eight years now.

在过去的几年里，我不得不出售一些股票，因为期权计划等原因，我不展开细说，但这次我第一次获得了不受限制地购买股票的自由。

In the last few years, I had to divest some shares because option program and stuff won't get into the details, but for the first time, got unfettered ability to buy stock.

我认为这是一家很棒的公司。

I think this is a great company.

我认为这是一个很棒的市场，一个很棒的行业。

I think it's a great market, great sector.

我相信网络安全的未来前景巨大。

I believe the future of cybersecurity is huge going forward.

我认为，我们引入的技术越多，就越需要以安全、可靠的方式提供这些技术。

I think the more technology that we bring to bear, the more it needs to be delivered securely, safely.

我认为人工智能将大有可为，它需要负责任的公司来帮助为客户提供负责任的解决方案。

And I think AI is gonna be huge, and it's gonna require responsible companies to help deliver responsibility to our customers.

同意，这正是我这么厉害的原因。

Agree, is why I'm so good.

你来到这里是为了讲述这个故事。

You came to the set to tell the story.

帕洛阿尔托网络公司的收银员或董事长、首席执行官，实际上他持有的股票比以前更多了

The cashier or chairman, CEO of Palo Alto Networks, who actually has more stock than he did

上次我见到的时候。

last time I saw.

是的。

Yeah.

迈克回来了。

Mike's back.

真是太好了。

It's been great.

谢谢。

Thank you.

接下来是Salesforce为其Slack平台发布全新AI功能的消息。

Coming up with Salesforce unveiling new AI capabilities for its Slack platform.

这家公司目前是否被低估了？

Is the company being undervalued right now?

克拉默接下来将采访首席执行官马克·贝尼奥夫。

Cramer's asking asking CEO Mark Benioff, next.

这让你有信心去完成以前没人做过的事情吗？

Made you confident that you could do something that hadn't been done before?

我毫不畏惧失败。

I have no fear of failure.

开拓进取的女性正在改变游戏规则。

Trailblazing women changing the game.

其中之一

One of

我最喜爱的建议之一：想想你的老板的老板需要什么。

my favorite pieces of advice, think about what your boss's boss needs.

领导力可以以许多不同的形式呈现。

Leadership can look in many, many different forms.

归根结底，就是要相信自己。

It really does come down to just trusting yourself.

人生短暂，

Life is short, and

你必须志存高远，才能成就大事。

you just gotta think big to accomplish big things.

朱莉娅主持CNBC的变革者与权力人物节目。

Julia hosts CNBC change makers and power players.

新节目每周二在您收听播客的平台上线。

New episodes every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts.

我们都清楚，企业软件领域经历了一段艰难时期，因为华尔街不知为何认定整个行业都会被人工智能摧毁。

We all know it's been a brutal period for anything related to enterprise software because Wall Street just somehow assumes this entire industry will be devastated by AI.

例如，Salesforce在二月份公布了我认为相当不错的季度业绩，但股价自那以后一直未能回升。

For example, Salesforce reported what I thought was a pretty darn good quarter in February, but the stock hasn't been able to get any traction since.

这对我来说毫无道理。

Makes no sense to me.

Salesforce的AI业务蓬勃发展，无论是它自己的Agentforce，还是刚刚为Slack推出的一系列新AI功能。

Salesforce is booming AI business or if it's own in agent force, and they just rolled out a bunch of new AI powered features for Slack.

此外，公司也在言行一致地投入资金。

Plus, the company's also putting its money where its mouth is.

500亿美元的股票回购计划已经启动。

$50,000,000,000 buyback, which is already underway.

这规模太大了。

That's enormous.

记住，这还是一家市值仅1720亿美元的公司。

Remember, it's only a $172,000,000,000 company.

让我们与马克·贝尼奥夫深入探讨一下。

Let's take a closer look with Mark Benioff.

他是Salesforce的联合创始人、董事长兼首席执行官。

He's the cofounder, chair, and CEO of Salesforce.

更好地了解这里正在发生什么。

Get a better sense of what's happening here.

贝尼奥夫先生，欢迎再次做客《坏钱》节目。

Mister Benioff, welcome back to Bad Money.

吉姆，能和你在一起总是很棒。

Jim, it's always great to be with you.

来自旧金山的问候。

Hello from San Francisco.

那么，马克，我想向全新的Slack问好。

Well, Mark, I would like to to give a hello to the new Slack.

我想你或许能告诉我们，因为这和你之前推荐给我、我一直使用的Slack已经大不相同了。

I thought you might be able to tell us because it's quite different from the Slack that you told me to use and I've been using.

这是非常新颖、截然不同的东西。

This is something very new, very different.

吉姆，你还记得五年前我们收购Slack时的情景吗？那时它已经是一家了不起的公司，但现在它变成了更好的产品。

Jim, you remember five years ago, we bought Slack and it was an incredible company, but it's become an even a better product.

在过去的五年里，我们的收入也增长了三倍。

And we've also tripled revenue during that five year period.

我们预计今年Slack的收入将达到约30亿美元，这非常了不起。

We're anticipating about $3,000,000,000 in revenue this year with Slack, pretty incredible.

我来告诉你为什么它是Salesforce增长最快的产品之一，吉姆，这真的归功于这场AI革命。

And I'll tell you why it's one of the fastest growing products at Salesforce, Jim, it's really this AI revolution.

它已经成为了AI的入口。

This has become the interface to AI.

如果你看看我们旧金山这里这些热门的AI公司，比如OpenAI、Anthropic以及众多其他公司，它们都在使用Slack来运营公司。

If you look at these hot AI companies we have here in San Francisco, like OpenAI, Anthropic and so many others, they are all running their companies on Slack.

因此，它不仅成为一个自动化企业运营的绝佳平台，更成为了首屈一指的AI生态系统。

And so it's become not only this incredible platform to automate your companies, but also the number one AI ecosystem.

事实上，今天在旧金山，有数百家公司展示了它们在Slack上构建的令人惊叹的应用。

In fact, we had hundreds of companies here today in San Francisco showing all the incredible things that they've built on Slack.

当然，任何每天使用Slack的人都知道，Slack内部发生的一切简直太棒了。

And of course, anybody who uses Slack every day already knows that this is just awesome what happens inside Slack.

我们甚至将Slack变成了Salesforce本身的新界面。

We've even made Slack the new interface to Salesforce itself.

那我们来谈谈Agent Force这个界面，它表现如何？

Well, let's talk about the interface that is, Agent Force and how that's doing.

我们花了太多时间谈论软件即服务，我认为人们太过于关注这个了，它表现还不错。

We've spent too much time talking about I think people spend too much time talking about the software as a service, which is doing okay.

却没花足够时间谈论Agent Force，它的表现远不止不错。

And not enough time talking about Agent Force, which is doing far more than okay.

吉姆，Agent Force就像许多了不起的软件公司一样。

Well, Jim, agent force like, by the way, a lot of incredible software companies.

你已经看到了过去几个月发生的惊人成果，因为包括Salesforce在内的软件公司都报告了出色的季度业绩。

You've seen these amazing results that have happened over the last several months because software companies are reported, including Salesforce itself, having amazing quarters.

我认为我们的季度可能是有史以来最好的，收入和现金流都异常出色。

I think our quarter was probably the best quarter we've ever had exceptional revenue and cash flow.

你看到了那些数据，吉姆，太棒了。

You saw the numbers, Jim, it was awesome.

但今年超过460亿美元的指引，我认为没有任何一家独立软件公司能实现如此高水平的160亿美元现金流。

But guidance for this year of over 46,000,000,000 there hasn't been, I think any independent software company that's delivered that level of capability of $16,000,000,000 of cash flow.

不过，我们并不是孤军奋战，整个行业都在取得非凡的成果。

Well, we're not alone, our whole industry is delivering phenomenal results.

因此，我认为在人工智能时代忽视软件和软件即服务的想法是完全荒谬的。

So I think that this idea that software and software as a service can be disregarded in the age of AI is quite nonsensical.

相反，我认为我们需要关注的是，软件与人工智能结合如何改变并日益提升企业的重要性。

And instead, I think what we have to look at is how are things changing and how are things becoming more important in companies with the combination of software and AI?

Slack就是一个绝佳的例子，吉姆，人工智能让Slack变得出色得多。

And Slack is indeed a great example, Jim, where AI has made Slack so much better.

你知道我每天都在用Slackbot。

You know about Slackbot that I use it every day.

它让我的生活变得更好。

It just makes my life better.

这是人类与人工智能的协同合作。

It's humans and AI working together.

现在，我想我们会周期性地听到这些不一致的声音。

Now, I mean, we'll get these discordant messages periodically.

比如在十一月，萨姆·阿尔特曼，也就是OpenAI的首席执行官，说Slack制造了大量虚假的工作。

Like in November, Sam Altman says OpenAI CEO says Slack creates a lot of fake work.

当然，埃隆·马斯克对此提出了异议。

Of course, Elon Musk dispute that.

但我的意思是，他为什么这么说？为什么？为什么？

But, I mean, why why why had why did he say that?

这到底指的是什么？

What is that about?

嗯，我不了解那方面的情况。

Well, I don't know, you know, anything about that.

我知道OpenAI是Slack和Salesforce的忠实客户，他们用Salesforce的核心应用和Slack来运行销售和服务。

I do know that OpenAI is a tremendous customer of Slack and Salesforce running their sales and service on Salesforce's core applications and Slack itself.

事实上，每次我见到萨姆·阿尔特曼，我都是他的铁粉，我觉得他是一位非常出色的首席执行官。

In fact, whenever I'm with Sam Altman, and I'm a huge fan of Sam Altman, think he's a fantastic CEO.

你知道，他一打开笔记本电脑，就是Slack在运行他的业务。

You know, he opens his laptop and it's Slack running his business.

这在旧金山的大多数AI公司CEO身上都是如此，实际上贯穿了我们整个行业。

And that's true of most AI company CEOs here in San Francisco really through our whole industry.

我认为这充分表明软件行业依然充满活力、蓬勃发展。

And I think it really indicates that the software industry is still very much alive and well and growing.

你也可以从Slack的这些数据中看到这一点。

And you can see that in these Slack numbers.

但你同样能在我们核心领域的巨大创新中看到这一点。

But you can also see it in the tremendous innovation that is happening in our core.

你提到了Agent Force，我们已经向数以万计的公司销售了这款令人惊叹的新产品。

And you mentioned Agent Force, where we've sold tens of thousands of companies this new incredible product.

我想我是第一个使用‘智能体’这个词的人，当时你在你的节目中提到过。

I think I was the first one to use the word agentic You were on your show.

我记得你当时还得去查一下这个词。

I remember you had to go and look it up.

现在，

Now,

我第一次使用这个术语，但人类与智能体协同工作的理念，这正是大型企业自动化的新阶段，吉姆。

the first time I used it, but this idea that it's humans and agents working together, this is the next level of automation of big companies, Jim.

哦，不会吧。

Oh, no.

这真的非常令人兴奋。

I I it's quite exciting.

我知道现在已经有大约两万九千人使用它了。

And I know you had about 29,000 people on it now.

你肯定有试用者，然后是真正购买的用户。

You must have trialers and then takers.

大部分试用者都转化成了优质客户吗？

Have have the vast majority of the trialers become good customers?

吉姆，你看这家了不起的公司，Pandora。

Jim, you look at this incredible company, Pandora.

你可能知道他们来自丹麦哥本哈根。

You probably know them out of Copenhagen, Denmark.

他们是一家非凡的珠宝商。

They are this incredible jeweler.

你走进这些购物中心，就会看到Pandora的门店。

You go into these shopping centers, you'll see the Pandora stores.

他们不仅用Salesforce管理销售，用Salesforce提供客户服务，甚至还在使用我们全新的基于Salesforce的销售点系统。

Well, not only do they run their sales on Salesforce and their service on Salesforce, they even use our new point of sales point of sales on Salesforce.

此外，吉姆，他们在所有门店和线上不仅配备了人工Salesforce团队，还部署了智能代理Salesforce和智能代理服务团队。

And in addition to that, Jim, they have not only a human Salesforce in all these stores and online, but an agentic Salesforce and an agentic service force.

他们已经将这一理论付诸实践。

So they have put this theory into action.

通过人类与智能代理的协作，他们取得了前所未有的成功。

They become more successful than ever by teaming up humans and agents.

而这正是我们能够做到的。

And that's what we can do.

我们可以生成代理，帮助你提升生产力，服务客户、销售给客户，并与员工协作，带来全新的成功水平。

We can spawn agents that make you more productive, to service your customers, to sell to your customers, and to work with your employees to make them, well, a whole new level of success.

好的。

Okay.

现在让我们谈谈股票本身，你知道的，我对此充满热情。

Now let's let's talk about the stock itself, which, you know, I care passion about.

我的旅行公司也持有这只股票。

My travels also owns it.

我认为，进行250亿美元的加速股票回购（现已完成）并额外在市场回购250亿美元，这向人们表明了什么？

I think that the decision to do an accelerated share repurchase for 25,000,000,000, which is now done, and 25,000,000,000 in the market shows me, you know what, people?

是的。

Yeah.

如果你不了解我们正在做的所有好事，我们就直接回购股票。

If you don't know what all the good things are that we're doing, we'll just buy the stock back.

当你意识到这些时，你会发现你最终会支付300、400。

And then when you realize that you'll end up being pay you'll pay 300, you'll pay 400.

我这样认为是不是太乐观了？这最终才是问题所在？

Am I too bullish in thinking that that's ultimately the the issue?

因为马克，你告诉我的一切——无论是代理团队——和实际情况之间存在脱节。

Because there is a disconnect, Mark, between everything you told me whether it'd be agent forces.

我本来想说，你们要把公司改名为‘代理力量’，然后又推出了新的Slack。

I was gonna say, you're renaming the company agent force, and then we got the new Slack.

我不知道是否希望发生这种情况。

I don't know if I want that to happen.

但你告诉我的这些信息，价值远超186.67美元。

But what you're telling me is too big for a $186.67.

吉姆，我不知道该怎么说，每次在你的节目上，我都这么说，你知道的，已经十多年了，也许快二十年了。

Well, Jim, I don't know how to do this, and I say this every time on your on your show for, you know, for, well, more than a decade or maybe two decades.

二十年。

Two decades.

二十年。

Two Two decades.

我不知道如何评估股市，但我知道当我们的股票实在太便宜的时候。

I don't know how to value the stock market, but I do know when our stock is just too darn cheap.

这就是为什么我们回购了公司11%的股份。

And that's why we bought back 11% of our company.

我想买一个四分卫。

I wanted to buy a quarterback.

人人都知道这一点。

Everyone knows that.

他们看到我们准备了500亿美元。

They saw us line up for $50,000,000,000.

我想把整个公司都买回来。

I wanted to buy the whole thing back.

我只是觉得现在是软件行业的激动人心的时刻。

I just think this is an exciting moment for software.

软件将为公司创造比以往任何时候都更大的价值，而不是更少。

Software is going to have more value for companies than ever before, not less.

我们能为公司提供并做得更多，而不是更少。

We can offer and do more for companies, not less.

这正是让我感到兴奋的地方。

And that is what I'm excited about.

以前我根本卖不出代理工具，但现在我可以了。

And I could never sell agents before and now I can.

你知道，我仍然在销售应用程序。

You know, I'm still selling apps.

我们的公司里仍然有大量需要使用应用程序的人类员工，需要使用Slack的人类员工，需要使用我们的销售云、服务云、Tableau以及我们所有应用的人类员工，但现在还有代理工具，它们让这些人类员工变得更优秀、更强大、更出色。

Our companies are still filled with huge numbers of humans who need apps to work, humans to use Slack, human to use our Sales Cloud, our Service Cloud, Tableau, all of our applications, but also now agents that are making those humans better and augmenting them and that and elevating them.

这正是让我感到兴奋的地方。

And that's what's exciting to me.

你们有足够的工程师来持续开发吗？

Do you have enough engineers to keep building?

在Salesforce，我们大约有15,000名销售人员和15,000名工程师。

At Salesforce, we have about 15,000 salespeople and about 15,000 engineers.

这些工程师比以往任何时候都更强大，因为他们都可以使用这些新的编码模型。

And those engineers are way more powerful than ever before because all of them can use these new coding models.

因此，他们不仅能手动编写代码，还能生成能够编程的代理。

So they have the ability to not only manually code, but they can spawn agents that code as well.

事实证明，代理在编程方面非常出色，因为现在的编程和我1984年在苹果用汇编语言编程时已经完全不同了。

Turns out agents are very good at coding because coding is not like when I was coding in 1984 on an assembly language at Apple.

现在的编程更像一种语言交流，你可以直接与这些编码系统对话。

It's now very much a language motion and you're able to speak to these coding systems.

这些代理也同样可以做到。

Well, so can these agents.

因此，它们能够与我们的工程师协同合作，共同编写代码。

And so they're able to code in addition and in partnership with our engineers.

更高效的工程师，更高效的销售人员，更高效的Salesforce。

So more productive engineers, more productive salespeople, a more productive Salesforce.

我认为这就是我们刚刚创下这些纪录的原因，吉姆。

I think that's why we just hit those record numbers, Jim.

我们希望为我们的所有

And we wanna do that for all of I our

我听到了，我相信。

hear you and I believe.

我相信。

I believe.

我认为市场必须相信。

I think the market has to believe.

也许这就是所需要的。

Maybe this is what it takes.

每个人都使用Slack，才能意识到也许值得拥有Slack的公司。

That everybody's on Slack for them to realize maybe it's worth owning the company that makes Slack.

你觉得怎么样？

How about that?

我会致力于打造最好的软件，并实现最高水平的客户成功，至于股市，我就交给你了，吉姆。

I'm gonna work on building the best software I can and having the highest level of customer success possible, and I'm gonna turn over the stock market to you, Jim.

好的。

Alright.

你为什么不这么做呢？

Why don't you do that?

我会非常妥善地处理这件事，非常期待在旧金山见到你。

I'll take care of it very much, and I can't wait to to see you out in San Francisco.

替我向大家问好。

Say hello to everybody.

很高兴见到你

Great to see to

再见。

see you.

一切顺利。

All the best.

Salesforce的联合创始人、董事长兼首席执行官。

Cofounder, chair, CEO of Salesforce.

我从没见他这么干劲十足过。

More fired up than I've ever seen him.

谢谢你，马克。

Thank you, Mark.

接下来，有没有人想在能源领域寻找投资机会？

Coming up, looking for a play in the energy sector?

克莱默将会和一家小型天然气生产商的CEO对谈，相关内容稍后送上。

Cramer's sitting down with the CEO of a small natural gas producer that could be for you next.

即便伊朗的战事自然结束，过去几周发生的事件也会对全球能源行业产生持久影响。

Even when the war in Iran runs its course, the events of the past few weeks will have a lasting impact on global energy industry.

具体来说，我认为伊朗对霍尔木兹海峡的实际控制意味着美国最终会在液化天然气出口市场上发挥大得多的作用。

In particular, look, I think Iran's de facto control of the Strait Of Hormuz means The United States will end up playing a much larger role in the liquefied natural gas export market.

我们拥有大量的液化天然气，而且正在建设新的出口产能。

We have tons of this stuff, and we're building new export capacity.

受当前市场动荡的影响，我们的天然气对贸易伙伴来说越来越有吸引力，这就说到BKV公司了。

Something is becoming more enticing to our trading partners with the disruption in the gold, which brings me to BKV.

这是一家规模相对较小的天然气生产商，现已拓展至电力生产、碳捕集、利用与封存等周边业务。

Now this is a relatively small natural gas producer that's gotten to some adjacent businesses like power production and carbon capture utilization and storage.

自大约十八个月前上市以来，BKV的股价已上涨了约58%。

Since coming public just about eighteen months ago, BKV has rallied roughly 58%.

那么它还能继续上涨吗？

So can it keep climbing?

让我们在克里斯·考登的陪同下，深入了解一下它的内部情况。

Let's take a closer look under the hood with Chris Cowden.

他是BKV公司的首席执行官。

He's the CEO of BKV Corporation.

看看你到底在关注什么。

Find out what you're counting.

欢迎来到《疯狂金钱》。

Welcome to Mad Money.

嗨，吉姆。

Hey, Jim.

非常高兴

Very glad to

能来这里。

be here.

很高兴你来了。

I'm so glad you're here.

看。

Look.

我们之前没请过你上节目，我觉得你的模式非常新颖。

We've not had you on the show, and I thought that your model is so novel.

尽管我们已经敦促天然气公司做你们正在做的事情长达十年之久。

Although we've been begging natural gas companies to do exactly what you're doing for about a decade.

你能跟大家分享一下，你们和我们见过的传统勘探与生产公司有什么不同吗？

Why don't you share with people how you are different from the traditional E and P company that we've all seen?

是的，吉姆。

Yeah, Jim.

我们采用一种闭环的综合商业模式。

We we combine an integrated business model in a closed loop fashion.

我称之为闭环。

I call it closed loop

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我们直接从井口通过管道将天然气输送到发电厂。

Because we take gas from the wells right down the pipe to the power plants.

我们可以在那里燃烧它，然后通过碳捕获中和碳足迹。

We can combust it there, and then we can neutralize the carbon footprint with carbon capture.

这是一个端到端的商业模式，因为它能在整个价值链中创造比竞争对手更高的利润。

That's an end to end business model that wins because we can create more margin along that value chain than our competitors set.

而且，随着当前人工智能数据中心的蓬勃发展以及海湾地区的情况，这一模式也迅速兴起。

And it's really taken off in this AI data center boom right now as well as with the situation in The Gulf that

你提到的。

you mentioned.

你现在在德克萨斯州。

Now you are in Texas.

你靠近那些人，他们会说：等等。

You are near people say, well, wait a second.

他和超大规模云服务商有关系吗？

Does he have any to do with the hyperscalers?

事实上，你是有的。

Well, in truth, you do.

你和Meta有合作关系。

You've got a relationship with Meta.

显然，Meta看到了你这套闭环系统的价值。

Now Meta obviously sees the value of your closed loop system.

其他人很可能也会跟进。

Others probably are going to follow.

当然。

Absolutely.

我的意思是，这个模式正逐渐成为首选流程。

I mean, this model is really becoming the go to process.

当你回想一下十二个月前，超大规模企业还根本不会把天然气视为满足其能源需求的解决方案。

When you think about, you know, twelve months ago, hyperscalers were not talking about gas as the solution for their energy needs.

但现在如果你看看他们怎么说，他们都认为天然气加碳捕获是答案。

Now if you look at what they're saying, they're all saying gas plus carbon capture is the answer.

核能太遥远了。

Nuclear is too far out.

而且，你在哪儿能更容易获得天然气，并且能快速建设呢？

And and where do you have, you know, more gas that's available and you can build quickly?

得克萨斯州就是最佳地点。

Well, Texas is the spot.

是的。

Yeah.

我想我们当时一直在恳求科特拉，求你去和其中一家超大规模企业坐下来，促成这件事吧？

I think, we were begging Cotera to say, would you please sit down with one of these hyperscalers and make it happen?

我也看到卡特彼勒有成千上万台发动机改用天然气，但最简单的方式还是与你们签约。

I've also seen Caterpillar with thousands of engines go to wear natural gases, but the easiest thing would be to contract with you.

当然。

Absolutely.

我们目前运营着1.5吉瓦的装机容量。

Like, we have an operational 1.5 gigawatts today.

我们今天正在发电。

We're producing electricity today.

我们在德克萨斯州拥有近十亿立方英尺的毛天然气储量。

We have nearly a BCF of gas, gross gas in Texas.

我们正在注入二氧化碳。

We're injecting c o two.

我们的整个商业模式已经投入运营，而且目前全部都在德克萨斯州。

We have the whole business model operational, and it's all in Texas right now.

所以如果你正在建设数据中心，你知道，这是一家能让人们亲眼看到所有环节整合在一起的公司。

So if you're building a data center, you know, this is a company where people can come and see the whole thing come together in one package.

这非常强大。

It's incredibly powerful.

我告诉你，我对这个市场的发展方向以及我们在其中的位置感到比以往任何时候都更兴奋。

I'll tell you, I'm I'm more excited than I've ever been about where this market's going and where we're positioned in it.

那么，巴内特展怎么了？

Well, what happened to the Barnett show?

当我们刚开始做这个展会时，那里是所有人聚集的地方。

When we first started the show, it was where everybody was.

但后来人们决定往西走，结果发现巴内特地区仍有大量的天然气。

And then people decided to go west, but there turned out to be plenty of natural gas in Barnett.

也许他们走得太早了。

Maybe they moved too soon.

是的。

Absolutely.

对吧？

Right?

所以你说得完全正确。

So you're you're exactly right.

人们离开了巴内特地区。

The people left the Barnett.

他们撤走了资金。

They pulled the capital out.

当时有更吸引人的项目，比如海恩斯维尔和马塞勒斯，但它们推动了技术的进步。

There were more sexy plays, you know, Haynesville, Marcellus, but they evolved the technology.

于是我们所做的，就是把从马塞勒斯和海恩斯维尔学到的所有经验，反过来应用到巴内特地区，从而显著提升了产量。

And so all we did is take all that learnings from the Barnett for I'm sorry, from the Marcellus, from the Haynesville, and reverse supply them to the Barnett, and we've been able to just show so much more productivity.

我们的资本效率持续提升，因为我们正在反向输送这些技术。

Our capital efficiencies just keeps getting better because we're just reverse supplying the technology.

巴内特地层有200英尺的产层。

There's 200 feet of pay in the Barnett.

这是一个规模巨大的项目。

It's a big, big play.

我很高兴你们在做碳捕集。

Well, I'm also glad you're doing the carbon capture.

我来告诉你为什么。

I'll tell you why.

因为当我私下与这些公司的首席执行官们交谈时，他们说：吉姆，我知道你热爱天然气，但天然气得再往前推进一点。

Because when I speak with the CEOs of these companies offline, they say, listen, Jim, I know you love natural gas, but, you know, natural gas has to get a little bit more forward.

他们不能继续燃烧放空。

They can't be flaring.

现在他们根本不再燃烧放空了，所以我不知道这话从何说起。

Now they don't flare at all anymore, so I don't know what that's talking about.

但他们确实非常希望进行碳捕集，而你足够前瞻，认为不管谁当总统都没关系。

But they really did want carbon capture, and you are forward enough to think, look, it doesn't really matter who is president.

碳捕集或许是个好主意。

Maybe carbon capture is a good idea.

你说得对。

You're right.

你知道吗？

And and and and you know what?

这行得通。

It works.

碳捕集的经济效益，它已经存在四十年了。

The economics on carbon capture, we've it's been around for forty years.

这并不是什么新东西。

This isn't something new.

我们所做的就是说，看看客户想要什么？

And what we've done is we've said, look, what do the customers want?

他们想要天然气。

They want their natural gas.

他们想要便宜的。

They want it cheap.

他们想要充足的。

They want it abundant.

他们希望从美国获得，同时又不想对环境感到内疚，至少有些客户是这样。

They want it from The US, and they don't wanna feel bad about the environment, at least some customers.

所以我总是说，你去超市，那里有有机香蕉，也有普通香蕉。

And so I always say, you go to the grocery store, there's organic bananas, there's regular bananas.

有些人会买有机香蕉。

Some people are buying the organic bananas.

它们的价格是普通香蕉的两倍。

They're twice as expensive.

我们卖的是有机天然气。

We're selling organic gas.

我的意思是，‘有机’这个词要打引号，但本质上就是这么回事。

I mean, quotes around organic, but that's what it is.

而碳捕获技术让我们能够从数学上实现这一点。

And the carbon capture allows us to do that mathematically.

现在，克里斯，你认为这个国家真的被唤醒了吗？是否意识到这一点？

Now, Chris, do you think that the country got a real wake up call and recognize, you know what?

我们在加油站要付的油费变高了。

Our our we're paying more at the pump.

我们的能源体系看起来完全没有一体化，但大家都看到天然气的价格没上涨。

We don't seem that integrated at all, but they see that natural gas did not go up.

你觉得人们会不会难得一次意识到，咱们国家拥有的这些资源的价值？

Do you think people recognize maybe for once what we've got in this country?

我希望是这样。

I hope so.

那你知道我会怎么说吗？

And I you know what I would say?

大家开始逐渐意识到了，因为我亲眼见到大家第一次说出“行，那我了解下”，现在这种情况越来越多了。

It's starting to dawn on folks because what you saw for the first time, and I'm seeing it more and more now, is people say, okay.

那跟我讲讲天然气这回事吧。

Well, talk to me about this natural gas thing.

而且有这种想法的不只是美国的消费者。

And and it's not just US consumers.

我们正看到大量国际消费者和国际投资者涌入美国，他们说：如果我不从中东获取能源，那我就必须到美国来。

We're seeing an influx of international consumers, international investors start to come to The US and say, if I'm not gonna get my energy from The Middle East, I've gotta be in The US.

这里有什么机会？

What are the opportunities here?

所以过去六周里，我们真的看到了这种范式转变的发生。

So we're really seeing this in the last six weeks, this paradigm shift that's happening.

我同意你的看法。

So I I'm with you.

这确实是一次真正的警醒。

This is a a wake up call that's really happening.

我认为在未来几个月里，这种趋势还会持续。

I think it's gonna continue over the next several months.

我也认为，你的做法很快就会成为整个行业的标准做法，因为他们一直在等待某个超大规模云服务商出现。

I also think that you're really your your, your MO is going to become the industry's MO because they just keep waiting for some hyperscaler to come.

他们还在玩1992年的老游戏。

They're they're playing in '19 they're playing a game from nineteen ninety two thousand.

他们还在玩这个游戏。

They are still playing that game.

你可没在玩这个游戏。

You are not playing that game.

好吧，你可以这么说，但我们真正要做的是朝着冰球将要去的方向前进。

Well, I'll let you say that, but what we're trying to do is go to where the puck's going.

我想说的是，我们正在努力滑向那里。

I would say we're trying to skate.

在这个事情中，冰球会往哪里去？

Where's the puck going in this thing?

对吧？

Right?

人们会去哪里？

Where are folks gonna go?

如果你需要一吉瓦的能源，而且是在两三年甚至四年后，只有一种方式能获得它。

If you need a gigawatt of energy, a gigawatt in in two or three or four years, there's only one way to get that.

这并非启动更多风力发电。

It's not turning on more wind.

也不是启动更多太阳能，而且肯定不是建造核电站。

It's not turning on more solar, and it's certainly not building a nuclear plant.

那就是建设联合循环天然气发电厂。

It's putting up a combined cycle natural gas plant.

我们已订购了1.2吉瓦的产能，并且目前已经在生产1.5吉瓦。

We've got 1.2 gigawatts on order, and we already are producing 1.5 gigawatts.

而且我们相信市场未来就会朝着这个方向发展。

And we believe this is the way the the market's gonna go.

之后你还得提供脱碳的方案，来满足那些关注碳足迹的用户的需求。

And then you gotta have the option to decarbonize it for the guys who are sensitive about the carbon footprint.

所以我们如今已经配齐了这一整套解决方案。

So we've got that whole package in existence today.

那个，听我说，真的很高兴你能来参加这期节目。

Well, look, I'm so glad you came on the show.

我听说过很多关于你的事。

I've heard a lot about you.

你显然是真正的行家。

I you're obviously the real deal.

这让我非常兴奋，因为这正是我们需要的。

It's very exciting to me because this is what we need.

你们在本国已经取得了实证，证明我们有某种与其它地方无关的东西，所以我们是独立的。

You've got proof in the country that we've got something that is not connected to the other places, so we're insulated.

这正是我们大陆的真实情况，我们是隔绝的，而且一切安好。

This is where our continent is indeed, we're we're sequestered, and we're fine.

我想感谢像你这样的人让这一切成为可能。

And I wanna thank guys like you for making that happen.

这是克里斯·考登。

That's Chris Cowden.

他是BKV公司的首席执行官。

He's the CEO of a symbol, b k v.

记住这一点。

Remember that.

这很不错。

This is a good one.

谢谢你，克里斯。

Thank you, Chris.

感谢你的到来。

Thanks for coming on.

好的。

Alright.

谢谢你，吉姆。

Thank you, Jim.

广告后，午夜节目回归。

Midnight's back after the break.

接下来，你们有问题。

Coming up, you've got questions.

克拉默来回答问题。

Cramer's got the answers.

接下来进入快速闪电问答环节，做好准备。

Get charged up for a fast fire lightning round next.

闪电问答环节结束了。

And then the lightning round is over.

你准备好了吗？

Are you ready?

滑雪。

Skiing.

闪电问答环节。

The light round.

克里斯蒂安，先从亚利桑那州的杰伊开始。

Christian, start with Jay in Arizona.

杰伊。

Jay.

克拉默先生，感谢您接听我的电话，我是来自阳光之地的普贾。

Mister Cramer, thanks for taking my call and Puja from sunny.

最近怎么样？

What's up?

嗯，我的

Well, my

我的竞猜没出问题。

bracket's not busted.

我可能多了一些额外的奖金。

I may have some extra mag money.

多亏了亚利桑那野猫队。

Thanks to the Arizona wildcats.

您对西特莱克化学公司有什么看法？

What are your thoughts on Westlake Chemical?

这个板块看起来很火热。

The sector seems hot.

我觉得这个板块确实很热，但如果战争结束，我认为这只股票现在是个绝佳的买入机会。

Well, I think that sector seems hot, but if the war is over, I think that stock is such a sale.

这太好了。

That's so good.

这家公司股价出现了急剧上涨。

Companies it is, it's got a parabolic move.

我觉得你应该获利了结。

I think you should take profits.

明天就获利了结吧。

Take profits tomorrow.

我不喜欢这张图表的样子。

I don't like that what that chart looks like.

我们连线一下威斯康星州的斯科特。

Let's go to Scott in Wisconsin.

斯科特。

Scott.

你好，吉姆。

Hello, Jim.

嘿，斯科特。

Hey, Scott.

最近怎么样？

What's up?

为什么黄金价格在过去三周持续下跌？

Why has the price why has the price of gold been falling for the past three weeks?

我原以为，鉴于世界上持续的冲突和动荡，黄金价格应该上涨。

I assume that with all the conflict and troubles going on in the world that gold should be going up.

我持有巴里克矿业的股票。

I own Barrick Mines.

为什么黄金价格在下跌？

Why is gold going down?

黄金的表现一直很独立。

Gold has been a mind of its own.

它由投机者交易。

It trades with speculators.

我们曾有一只叫Eagle One的股票，是你想买的黄金股。

We had a vehicle Eagle one which is the gold stock you want to buy.

首席执行官说：听好了，这纯粹都是投机者在操作。

And the CEO said listen it's just all speculators.

很多年轻人频繁进出买卖。

A lot of young people flipping in and out.

我不喜欢这样。

I don't like that.

但我喜欢Agnico。

But I do like Agnico.

我们连线伊利诺伊州的基思。

Let's go to Keith in Illinois.

基思。

Keith.

嘿，吉姆·克拉默，冷静点。

Hey Jim Cramer Chill.

感谢你所做的一切。

Thanks for all that you do.

我是一名30岁的投资者。

I'm a 30 year old investor.

我对这一点的信心不足。

I'm below my confidence on this one.

我可以再买一些Okta吗？

Can I buy more Aachta?

是的，你可以再买一些Okta。

Yes you can buy more Aachta.

我认为托德·麦金农展示出的一点是持续的盈利能力，我会买入Okta。

I think that one of things that Todd McKinnon has demonstrate is consistent earnings power, and I would be a buyer of Okta.

这就是闪电环节的结论。

And that lens on the conclusion of the Lightning Round.

闪电轮由嘉信理财赞助。

The Lightning Round is sponsored by Charles Schwab.

接下来，为什么市场对食品行业股票的最新交易持负面看法？

Coming up, why is the market souring on the recent deals in the food sector stocks?

克拉默对此并不满意，他接下来会告诉你原因。

Cramer is not happy about it, and he'll tell you why next.

有时候，整个板块都备受厌恶，以至于其任何一家公司的表现都不再重要。

Sometimes the group is just so hated that it doesn't matter what any of its members do.

你知道这只股票还会继续下跌。

You know the stock's going lower.

泰特·麦科密克，这家被称作调味品公司的企业，做出了一个大胆的举动，与联合利华的食品业务合并，包括好乐门蛋黄酱、科尔曼芥末酱、诺拉汤品等，这笔交易采用的是反向莫里斯信托结构。

Tate McCormick, the flavor company as they call it, made a bold move, merging with Unilever's food business, including Hellman's mayonnaise, Coleman's mustard, Nora's soups, and what's done is a reverse Morris trust transaction.

合并后，联合利华及其股东将拥有公司近三分之二的股份，但公司将继续保留麦科密克的名称及其在纽约证券交易所的上市地位。

Unilever and its shareholders will own nearly two thirds of the company going forward, but it will keep the McCormick name and its New York Stock Exchange listing.

未来由麦科密克主导运营。

McCormick runs the show going forward.

我喜欢这个管理团队。

I like that management team.

这笔交易预计将在第一年为麦考密克的收益带来增长。

Deals should be added to McCormick's earnings in the first year.

巨大的成本节约。

Huge cost savings.

绝佳的协同效应。

Terrific synergies.

但市场却对此深恶痛绝，股价下跌了6%。

And the market hated it with the stock plunging 6%.

或者看看昨天，Cisco C——不是CSCO那种，而是S Y C这种SCO类型，S Y Y，这家非常可靠的食品服务分销商。

Or how about yesterday when Cisco c not the CSCO kind, but the s y c SCO kind, s y y, the very reliable food service distributor.

它收购了Jet Row，这家出色的批发供应商，你可以在这里大量采购食品，从而节省大量成本。

It put Jet Row, this terrific wholesale supplier, where you can pick up just tons of food and save a lot of money in the process.

所有刚进入餐饮行业的人家都知道Jet Row。

Everyone who's starting out in the restaurant business know Jet Row.

这太棒了。

It's fantastic.

顺便说一下，如果你遇到麻烦，总会去那里，我可是多次遇到过麻烦。

You always go there, by the way, if you're in a jam, and I've been in a jam many times.

你为什么会遇到麻烦？

Why would you be in a jam?

因为这是紧急情况。

Because it's an emergency.

没有合适的食材。

Don't have the right kind of food.

你得去弄些虾。

You gotta go get shrimp.

得去弄些牛排。

Gotta go get steak.

否则，如果你有其他较大的常规食材需求，就用Cisco。

Otherwise, you have any larger regular food needs, you use Cisco.