Mad Money w/ Jim Cramer 9/14/26

我是说，我不知道你怎么能做出这种预测。

I mean, I don't know how you can come up with these sort of predictions.

但我确实知道，这些智能体是危险的。

What I do know is that the agents are dangerous.

这些智能体需要被控制。

The agents need to be controlled.

你需要有可见性，并且能够保护你的组织。

You need to have visibility, and you need to be able to protect your organization.

这些都是事实。

All that is true.

但归根结底，这些智能体所做的，只是它们被训练去做的事情，而像CrowdStrike这样的公司一直在专注于阻止这些事情。

But at the end of the day, what the agents are doing, they've only been trained to do, which is what companies like CrowdStrike have been focused on stopping.

对吧？

Right?

所有不同的入侵指标、攻击指标，以及这些攻击链是如何运作的，这些都是已知的。

All the different breach indicators, the indicators of attack, how these attack chains work, those are all known.

它们只是以超人的速度发生，伴随着智能体和智能体集群。

They just happen at superhuman speed with agents and an agent swarm.

所以，吉姆，关键是你需要同等或更好的AI防御来对抗AI智能体。

So the key, Jim, is that you need equivalent or better AI defenses to combat the AI agents.

而这，归根结底，就是我们讨论的核心。

And that's, at the end of the day, what we're talking about.

你可以安全地使用这项技术。

You can use this technology safely.

你只需要正确的AI防御，才能让你充分利用AI的力量。

You just need the right AI defenses to be able to allow you to harness the power of AI.

好的。

Okay.

那么，关于中国可能在做的事情，我们目前处于什么位置？

Well, where are we in terms of thinking about what the Chinese may be doing versus us?

如果我们放慢速度，中国就会加速，这有关系吗？

If we slow down, China goes faster, does that matter?

嗯，我确实觉得这很重要。

Well, I I do think it matters.

我的意思是，如果你看看地缘政治的格局。

I mean, if you look at sort of the geopolitical landscape.

对吧？

Right?

从我的角度来看，作为一个个人的观点，我希望继续保持我们现有的领先地位。

From from my perspective, one man's view, wanna continue to lead that we have.

而且公平地说，我认为这个领先优势并不大。

And and to be fair, I think it's a it's a narrow lead.

如果你看看那些开放权重的模型，很多都是中国的。

If you look at the the open weight models, many of them are Chinese.

它们是非常出色的模型，能力非常强，而我们总是想站在前沿。

They're they're incredible models, incredible capabilities, and we always wanna be on the frontier.

我认为正是这一点让这个国家变得伟大，那就是始终处于技术的最前沿。

And this is what I think made this country great is is being at the edge of technology.

所以，你知道，我觉得没有人说要停止发展AI，但当我们考虑如何把它整合起来，如何训练它，并给它加上护栏时，我们仍然希望能够使用这项技术，并保持我们的竞争优势。

So, you know, I I don't think anyone is calling for the halt of developing AI, but when we think about how we put this together and how we sort of train it and put guardrails around it, around it, we still wanna be able to use the technology and keep our competitive advantage.

再说一次，我想我之前说过，你知道，我昨晚发了一篇文章，说CrowdStrike已经准备好坐到谈判桌前，把我们了解到的这些攻击情况，和这些实验室合作，成为解决方案的一部分。

And again, I think when what I've said, you know, I I put out a a post last night is that CrowdStrike is ready to come to the table, take what we know about these attacks, and and work with these labs and be part of the solution.

我们很乐意这样做，我认为在实验室里更安全，在生产运行时也更安全，这最终是最好的行动方案。

We're happy to do that, and I think greater safety in the lab and greater safety in production in runtime is ultimately the best course of action.

好的。

Okay.

现在你提到赛车，作为亮点。

Now you do, race cars as a as a highlight.

我读Dario那篇文章的时候想到了你，因为我知道如果你领先，他们挥黄旗，那没人能超车。

I was thinking of you when I read this piece by, by Dario because I know if you're in the lead and they do they wave the yellow flag, though, no one's allowed to pass anybody.

我在想，如果我领先，而且知道我会赢，那挥黄旗可能是个很酷的做法。

And I was thinking that might be a cool thing to do if I'm in the lead and know I'm gonna win.

我挥黄旗。

I wave the yellow flag.

没人能追上。

No one's ever gonna catch.

我的意思是，对，那肯定得有人想到。

I mean, yeah, that had to be thought by.

你得想到那种可能性。

You had to think that that's a possibility.

嗯，你看。

Well, look.

大家会有很多看法，你也看到了也听到了各种观点。

I people are gonna have a lot of views, and and you've seen and heard all the views that are out there.

这是监管俘获吗？

Is it regulatory capture?

这是为了放慢速度吗？

Is it a way to slow things down?

你知道，我也不确定。

You know, I I'm not sure.

我觉得历史最终会给出评判。

I mean, I guess history will ultimately judge that.

但我觉得重要的是，如果我们对这件事施加太多监管，那会扼杀创新，在我看来。

But I think what's important is if we put too much regulation around this, then it's going to stifle innovation in my opinion.

我觉得如果有人自愿提出自己的最佳实践，想成为这个社区中关于创建代理和模型的安全方面的典范。

I think if anyone voluntarily wants to come up with their own best practice, wants to be the exemplar in this community of of how it works and the safety around creating agents and creating models.

那太好了。

Fantastic.

我觉得然后如果你看最佳实践，市场应该能够决定，嘿，我想要最安全的代理。

I think then if you look at best practices, the the market should be able to determine, hey, I want the the safest agents.

我想要最好的模型，等等。

I want the best models, etcetera.

而且我觉得最终这会比仅仅希望有很多监管带来更好的结果。

And I think ultimately that that's gonna get a a better outcome than just hoping that there's a lot of regulation around this.

我不确定这是否是确切的解决方案，但你知道，我们会让其他人随着事态发展去尝试弄清楚那会是什么样子。

I'm not sure that's the the exact solution, but, you know, we'll let others try to figure out what that looks like as it unfolds.

好的。

Alright.

那最后一个问题。

Then last question.

现在正在听你讲话的那些公司，你能不能直接跟他们说，就像你在Falcon说的那样，我们CrowdStrike现在有的东西，就能防止大家担心的那种偏差问题。

Any of the companies out there that are listening to you right now, would you be able to say to them, as I think, like, you said at Falcon, what we have at CrowdStrike right now will prevent the kind of of misalignment that everyone seems to be so worried about.

我们的产品能做到这一点。

Our product can do that.

这是真的吗，乔治？

Is that true, George?

是真的，因为一旦你训练好模型，吉姆，而且

It's true because once you train the model, Jim, and

一旦你把它投入生产，它就可能发生偏移。

once you put it into production, it can drift.

而且有很多方法可以绕过那些防护措施。

And the there's plenty of ways to work around guardrails.

基本上，模型的训练，特别是后期训练，会把所有不良行为都训练掉。

Basically, training of the model, particularly in post training, trains out all of bad behaviors.

但是当模型和框架不知道该怎么办的时候，它们就得自己推断，可能会得出一个你没预料到的结论，然后采取行动，这就是为什么你需要方程式的后半部分，吉姆。

But when there's a situation where the model and the harness don't know what to do, they have to infer something and they may draw a conclusion and take an action that you hadn't intended, which is why you need the second half of the equation, Jim.

这非常重要。

This is very important.

运行时保护和管控。

Run time protection and control.

你需要能看到代理在做什么。

You need visibility into what the agent is doing.

那是在它离开实验室，你开始使用它之后。

That's after it leaves the labs and you're using it.

当你在自己的环境中实际使用它时，你需要给它加上护栏。

You need to put the guardrails around it when you're actually using it in your own environment.

你可以看到代理在做什么，并且可以真正地给它加上护栏。

And you can see what the agents are doing and you can actually put guardrails around it.

就拿Hugging Face那个事件来说吧，如果你只看那个代理在做什么，并且追踪它，你会发现有很多活动。如果你看完整条时间线，你会看到它实际上在做一些不是它本意要做的坏事。

If you look at the hugging face incident as an example, if you just look at what the agent was doing and you tracked it and there was a lot of activity, If you looked across that entire timeline, you would see that it was actually doing bad things that it wasn't intended to.

这就是公司需要做的，能够查看和检查这些代理在做什么，以便安全地使用它们，这意味着他们是在利用AI的力量做好事。

And that's what companies need to do to be able to look at and inspect what these agents are doing so they can use them safely, which it means they're harnessing the power of AI for good.

嗯，这场辩论中有些常识，但现在似乎充满了争议。

Well, there's some common sense in the debate that seems to be fraught right now.

我想感谢你，乔治·库尔茨，CrowdStrike的首席执行官，每个人都应该读一下你在X上的帖子。

I wanna thank you, George Kurtz, CEO of CrowdStrike, and everyone should read your your post on x.

它比我们在采访中能覆盖的内容更全面，我想感谢你上节目，蒂姆。

It's more thorough than what we could cover in an interview, and I wanna thank you for coming on the show, Tim.

谢谢，吉姆。

Thanks, Jim.

我的检查员。

My inspector.

对。

Right.

接下来，克莱默将邀请Lyft的CEO来聊天，随着《疯狂金钱》从旧金山继续播出。

Coming up, Cramer's picking up their CEO of Lyft for a chat as Mad Money continues from San Francisco.

下一个。

Next.

好的。

Alright.

最近Lyft的股价有什么动静？它是美国第二大拼车平台。

What are making in the recent action in the stock of Lyft, number two ride sharing platform in The United States?

尽管公司持续交出不错的业绩，但今年股价一直承压。

Stocks been under a lot of pressure this year even as the company keeps putting up solid numbers.

我们看到了相当显著的转机，但股价却没有反映出来。

We've seen a pretty impressive turnaround here, yet that's not being reflected in the stock.

一年前，Lyft收购了Free Now，加强了欧洲业务。

A year ago, Lyft acquired Free Now beefing up their European business.

上周他们开始达成自动驾驶交易。

They started doing self driving deals last week.

他们在纳什维尔提供了更多的服务。

They made way more available in Nashville.

他们还有一些很棒的自行车项目。

They got some great bike initiatives.

这只股票还能重新振作起来吗？

Can the stock get back to its groove?

那么，让我们连线Lyft的首席执行官大卫·里查兹，看看现在的情况。

Well, let's check-in with David Richards, CEO of Lyft, to find out what's going on.

里查兹先生，欢迎回到《疯狂金钱》。

Mister Richards, welcome back to Mad Money.

很高兴来到这里。

It is great to be here.

谢谢你，吉姆。

Thank you, Jim.

好的。

Alright.

所以，大卫，我我我一直在想，要一直跟这个巨头对抗真是太难了。

So, David, I I I was thinking it's so tough to continue to take on the beast.

对吧？

Okay?

但你做到了。

But you have.

你一直在挑战它。

You've been poking it.

现在你在很多地方都已经打败它了。

Now you're, in many cases, beating it in a lot of places.

但你的股价却没有飞涨。

And yet your stock's not flying.

所以让我问你一个问题。

So let me ask you something.

你对这份工作还充满热情吗？

Are you still excited about the job?

我热爱我的工作。

I love my job.

我每天早上真的是一跃而起，连周六也不例外，我妻子都会说，大卫，冷静点。

I literally jump out of bed every morning, and that includes Saturdays when my wife is like, David, settle down.

但我会说，嘿。

But I'm like, hey.

怎么还没到周一呢？

Why isn't it Monday yet?

所以原因在这里。

So here's why.

你看。

Look.

从基本层面来说，我们每年为人们提供十亿次出行服务。

At the basic level, we're giving people a billion rides every year.

这意味着很多人出门去享受生活，去上班、去参加派对、去听音乐会、去看比赛，不管是什么活动。

That is a lot of people getting out and living their best lives, going to work, going to parties, going to concerts, going to equal games, whatever it is.

对吧？

Right?

所以这很了不起。

So that's a big deal.

而且能成为人们生活的一部分，感觉真的非常好。我们正在经历自动驾驶汽车的巨大转型，这些车安全、可靠，人们真的很喜欢。

And that feels really, really good to be part of people's And we're going through incredible transition of self driving cars that are safe, reliable, people really like them.

所以，你有多经常能处在一个正在经历如此巨大变革的行业里，而且是在我们这样的规模上，朝着更好的经济和更好的服务迈进？

So how often do you get to be in an industry that is going through such an incredible transformation towards even better economics and even better service at the scale we are.

嗯，我觉得你提到了一个可能股价没有反映所有这些好处的理由，那就是人们确实相信自动驾驶会对你们所做的事情构成生存威胁，但你有一个我认为相当不错的解决方案，而且这正在纳什维尔发生。

Well, I think that you mentioned one reason why maybe the stock's not reflecting all the goodness is people do believe that self driving is is going to be an existential threat to what you do, but you've got a solution that I think is pretty good in the it's happening in Nashville.

你看。

Look.

我觉得那些说自动驾驶对网约车构成威胁的人完全搞反了。

I think people who say self driving is a threat to rideshare have got it completely backwards.

事实上，我会说这是我们能得到的最大的礼物之一。

In fact, I would say it is one of the biggest gifts we could have gotten.

对吧？

Right?

所以你想一想。

So think about it.

再说，这是一个人们喜欢的产品。

Again, it's a product that people like.

它可靠、安全，而且未来也会如此。

It's a product that is reliable and safe and all those different things and will be in the future.

再想想经济账。

And think of the economics.

我们最大的成本是什么？

What are some of our biggest costs?

保险是拼车的一大开销，而自动驾驶会更安全。

Insurance is a huge cost for rideshare, and self driving is going to be safer.

所以你有一个安全的产品，经济性更好，人们也喜欢。

So you've got a safe product that's gonna have better economics that people like.

好的。

Okay.

那我们有什么呢？

So what do we have?

我们有需求，每年十亿次出行。

We have demand, a billion rides a year.

我们还有，你知道的，定价、上下车地点、失物招领、客户服务，以及所有其他需要处理的事情。

We've got, you know, pricing and pickup drop off locations and lost and found and customer care and all these other things that have to happen.

而且我们平台上有150万名司机。

And we have 1,500,000 drivers on the platform.

所以想象一下，把这些结合起来，创造两全其美的局面。

So imagine putting these together and creating the best of both worlds.

然后我们还做一项叫车队管理的事情，这个我们一会儿可以聊聊。

And then we also do something called fleet management, we can talk about in a second.

但你把所有这些都放在一起，我认为，这对整个行业，尤其是对Lyft来说，是一个非常非常光明的未来。

But you put all these things together, and it is, I think, a great, great future for the industry and for Lyft in particular.

这很重要，因为我看你的现金流、看你的数字、看回购的时候。

Well, this is important because when I look at your cash flow, look at your numbers, look at the buyback.

我回头说，上次股价在15的时候，公司可能只有现在的一半好吧？

I come back and say, last time the stock was at 15, it's probably, I don't know, about half as good a company as it is now?

甚至不到。

If that.

对，甚至不到。

If that yeah.

今天，我们正在产生十亿美元的现金。

Today, we're, you know, generating a billion dollars in cash.

几年前，我们还在亏损三亿美元。

You know, a bunch of years ago, we're losing $300,000,000.

接下这份工作。

To take the job.

我记得。

I remember that.

我记得，但我当时没听那个建议。

I remember, and I didn't pay attention to that advice.

不过确实。

But yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

所以事情是这样的。

So here's the thing.

我觉得我们已经证明了，你看，拼车这块。

I think what we've shown is, you know, rideshare look.

再说一遍，记住，我们每年完成十亿次出行，这很棒。

Again, remember, we're doing doing a billion rides, which is great.

人们每年在私家车里进行一万六千亿次出行。

People do a 160,000,000,000 rides in their private cars every year.

所以这是一个巨大的市场。

So it's a huge market.

有一段时间，大家关心的是它能不能盈利。

For a while, it was a question of could it be profitable.

现在我们毫无疑问地证明了它是可以盈利的。

Now we've proven beyond any doubt it can be profitable.

现金流为正，而且盈利。

Cash flow positive and profitable.

现在的问题是，它能不能增长？

Now the question is, can it grow?

答案是它可以向上增长。

And the answer is it can grow up.

它可以向外扩展，也可以向前发展，向前就意味着走向自动驾驶的未来。

It can grow out, it can grow forward, and forward means into the AV future.

非常好。

Very good.

我最初跟你聊的时候也说过，我担心的是规模问题。

Now when I first also talked to I said I was worried about scale.

你之前没有。

You didn't have it.

你现在规模很大。

You got plenty of scale.

你有很多东西持续吸引人们来找你。

You got many things that continue to drive people to you.

没错，

That's

对。

right.

你有一些很棒的合作伙伴，这些合作让人非常兴奋。

You've got some some great partnerships that are that are very exciting for people.

是的。

We do.

是的。

We do.

那我们来说说规模吧。

So let's think about scale.

拼车是个规模化的生意。

Rideshare is a scale business.

那我们现有的规模是靠什么驱动的呢？

So what are some of the drivers of the scale we have?

就像你说的，合作伙伴关系是其中很大一部分。

As you said, partnerships is a big part of it.

现在，每三趟行程里就有一趟是跟合作伙伴挂钩的。

So right now, one in every three rides is tagged to a partner.

这些合作伙伴是谁呢？

Who are those partners?

美联航。

United Airlines.

你应该听说过他们。

You've heard of them.

对。

Right.

DoorDash。

DoorDash.

你肯定听说过。

You've heard of them.

还有希尔顿。

You know, Hilton.

你也肯定听说过。

You've heard of them.

还有大通蓝宝石卡。

Chase Sapphire Reserve.

这个你也肯定听说过。

You've heard of them.

这些都是大公司，它们年复一年地跟Lyft合作，确实从中获得了实实在在的价值。

These are big important companies that are finding real value in year after year after year after year collaborating with Lyft.

我来给你举个例子说明为什么。

And I'll I'll give you an example why.

比如说美联航。

Let's say United Airlines.

在现实生活中，人们——不是像你和我这样的人——可能一年出行一两次，或者三次。

People take in the real world, not folks like you and me, but people take maybe one, two, maybe three trips

对。

a year.

是的。

Right.

这就是人们意识到的。

That's what people realize.

对。

Right.

但人们每天都在用拼车服务。

But people do rideshare every single day.

所以他们很喜欢乘客可以累积积分、里程、会员里程，用在Lyft上，也可以用在United上，反过来也一样。

So they love the fact that they can people, riders, can accumulate points, miles, membership miles on on Lyft, spend them on United, and the other way around.

他们可以把在United累积的里程用在Lyft上。

They can take money miles they've accumulated on United, spend them on Lyft.

这是个很棒的项目。

That's a great program.

我们是业内唯一一家有这种合作的公司，这对两家公司都有好处，也帮助我们推动增长。

We're the only one in the industry that has that, and that is accretive to both companies, and that helps drive our our growth.

那即时接载呢？

How about instant pickup?

希望？

Hope?

总有一天。

Someday.

快来了。

It's coming.

真的吗？

Really?

快了。

It's coming.

快了。

It's coming.

有一件事，我在亚马逊工作了很多年，你可能还记得。

One of the things so I worked at Amazon for many years, as you might recall.

你可是亚马逊的高管。

You're a huge executive at Amazon.

好的。

Okay.

所以其中一个

And so one of the

我离开时对杰夫和团队说的最后一件事是，听着。

last things I said to Jeff and the team when I left is, look.

有一件事我们可以都指望，那就是越快越好。

Here's something that I can we can all bank on, which is faster is better.

越快越好。

Faster is better.

所以你看亚马逊Prime，显然，它太棒了。

So you see it with Amazon Prime, obviously, it's incredible.

我是说，我忘了订一个杯子，它就到了，就像我还没按完按钮一样。

I mean, I forget to order a cup, and it's there, like, before I finish pushing the button.

简直难以置信。

It's unbelievable.

这也是我们想在拼车领域做到的。

And that's what we're gonna try to do with rideshare as well.

我们的预计到达时间，我们这么叫它，比公司历史上任何时候都快。

Our ETAs, that's what we call them, are faster than they've ever been in the company history.

顺便说一句，上周我们创下了公司历史上乘车次数的最高纪录，所以这是个好消息。

By the way, last week, we had an all time high for rides in the company's history, so that's good news.

而且情况只会越来越好，因为我们接你的速度更快，也更可靠。

And it's only getting better as we pick you up faster and even more reliably.

好的。

Okay.

那你跟我说说，你刚开始的时候，是亲自开车的吧。

So tell me about when I when you got started, you were behind the wheel.

你最近有没有亲自开过车？

Have you been behind the wheel lately?

有啊。

I have.

那感觉怎么样？

And what's it like?

我昨天就开了，哦，不对。

I was so yesterday, drove oh, no.

那今天呢？

So what's today?

我两天前开的车。

So I drove two days ago.

是吗？

You did?

你一直跟我说开车是什么感觉。

You kept telling me what it was like.

我很喜欢。

I love it.

我真的很喜欢。

I absolutely love it.

所以大概每六周左右，我会试着开一次车。

So every six weeks or so, I try to get behind the wheel.

我总说，我开车是为了学习，不是为了赚钱。

I always say I drive to learn, not to earn.

不过能多赚点钱也不错。

Although it is nice to earn a little extra money.

我把这归功于那个。

I contribute that.

不过话说回来，我学到了什么？

But anyway, what did I learn?

我了解到人们非常喜欢Chase Sapphire Reserve的合作。

I learned that people love the Chase Sapphire Reserve partnership.

这是肯定的。

That's for sure.

所以我当时在载客。

So I was driving people.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

他们很喜欢。

They love it.

非常有意思。

Very interesting.

五倍积分，每月十美元。

Five x points, $10 a month.

这比另一家公司的另一个优惠要好。

It's better than there's another company that's got another offer.

都不知道那是什么东西。

Don't even know what that thing is.

但不管怎样，人们真的很喜欢它，而且他们真的，

But anyway, people really, really like it, and they really,

真的很看重它。

really value it.

我告诉你

I'll tell

另一件事。

you something else.

我载了一对夫妇来回。

I drove a couple up and down.

这其实是在旧金山北边的纳帕谷。

This is actually North Of San Francisco in Napa Valley.

他们安排了六趟车，一趟接一趟。

They had scheduled six rides, ride after ride.

他们说，我都不用再租车了。

They said, I don't even need to rent a car anymore.

我就打算从一家酒庄预约到另一家酒庄。

I'm just gonna kinda schedule rides from winery to winery to winery.

我喝了酒之后绝对不想开车。

I never wanna drive after I've had anything to drink.

所以这让我们感觉很好，就像我们在做正确的事情，为

So it was a good basic feeling of, like, we're doing the right thing here for

人们。

people.

当他们说，你，什么，让两千万人识字了？

And when they say, you, what, made literate 20,000,000 people?

是的。

Yes.

你让两千万人开始阅读了。

You told 20,000,000 people to read.

我们现在差不多有两千两百万人了。

We're now at about 22,000,000 people.

二十二。

22.

这比让你坐优步更容易还是更难？

Easier or harder than taking you on Uber?

更容易还是更难。

Easier or harder.

说吧。

Come on.

说实话，这大概有五十英尺那么难。

Honest honest to god, it's sort of it's sort of 50 foot.

我甚至都不提跟其他公司竞争的事。

I don't even talk about taking on the other guys.

他们做他们的事。

They're gonna do their thing.

我们做我们的事。

We're gonna do our thing.

说实话，我觉得我们在自动驾驶的未来上比他们更有优势，但这只是我个人的看法。

I do think we're better positioned, frankly, for the self driving future than they are, but that's just me talking.

对于你的成功，没有什么会让你感到惊讶的。

Nothing would astonish you when it comes to your success.

非常感谢你，大卫·理查德。

I wanna thank you so much, David Richard.

谢谢。

Thank you

作为Lyft的CEO，说实话，我确实试图劝他不要接受这个职位，因为他是个好人，而且他想承担这些问题。

so CEO of Lyft, who honestly, I did try to get him not to take it because he's such a good guy and wanted to have the problems.

你把他搞定了。

You solved him.

咱们开始吧。

Let's work it

开始吧。

out.

开始吧，大家都回到场上。

Let's work it Everybody's back into the ring.

接下来，他是华尔街反应最快的人，所以我们要在你的帮助下测试他。

Coming up, he's the fastest mind on Wall Street, so we're putting him to the test with your help.

接下来是闪电回合。

Bring on the lightning round next.

是时候开始白热化回合了。

It is time to start the white round.

在这个环节，我会告诉你买买买，卖卖卖。

That's where I take the I tell you to buy buy buy sell.

所以，仅仅因为我事先不知道课程或股票的情况。

So just because I didn't know the course or the stocks ahead of time.

我的步骤可能正在应对这种情况。

My step is probably playing this out.

然后闪电回合就结束了。

And then the lightning round is over.

你准备好了吗，史蒂夫？

Are you ready, Steve?

内华达州的托尼。

Tony in Nevada.

托尼。

Tony.

嘿，吉姆。

Hey, Jim.

你好吗？

How are you doing?

去你的。

Boo to you.

你最近怎么样？

How are doing?

我挺好的。

I am doing well.

怎么了？

What's up.

我记得之前你说过，留着Palo Alto，卖掉Centennial。

Well I know a while back you said keep Palo Alto and sell Centennial one.

现在你对Centennial怎么看？

How do you feel now about Centennial.

你对它的看法有变化吗？

Do you feel any different about it.

没有。

No.

你看，我觉得你不需要我的教堂信托，有人提到了Palo Alto和CrowdStrike。

Look I think you don't need my chapel trust someone spoke Palo Alto inside and CrowdStrike.

已经太多了。

It's already too many.

我觉得这两者中的任何一个都比字母S更优秀。

I think either one of those two is is superior to letter S.

我们连线一下佛罗里达的Oleg吧，Oleg。

Let's go to Oleg please in Florida Oleg.

你好，Cramer教授。

Hello, professor Cramer.

非常感谢你，感谢你所有的智慧。

Thank you very much for for all you for all your wisdom.

Jim，我以26美元的价格买了这家公司的股票。

Jim, I purchased shares of this company of this company of $26.

我的时间跨度是五年。

My my time horizon is five years.

他们应该自己加上这个吗？

Should they add this to themselves?

双子座空间站。

Gemini space station.

谢

Thank

谢你。

you.

好的。

Okay.

那没问题。

That okay.

那是温克尔沃斯兄弟。

That's the Winklevoss brothers.

而且那些人非常棒。

And those are those guys are terrific.

我知道他们是非常聪明的人。

I I I know that they're really smart guys.

我们开始吧。

Let's do this.

我的意思是，这是加密货币的投资。

I mean, it's a crypto play.

这价格真的太低了。

It's really damn way too low.

我会把它当作你的投资组合。

I would keep it as your spec.

你觉得他们能让那个再涨起来吗？

Can I think that they could get that one to go again?

他们不是。

They are not.

他们很聪明。

They are smart.

他们可能会想明白的。

They might figure it out.

好的。

All right.

我们连线加州的芭芭拉。

Let's go to Barbara in California.

芭芭拉。

Barbara.

嗨，吉姆。

Hi, Jim.

第一次打电话进来，是俱乐部会员，很喜欢你的书。

First time caller, club member and love your book.

哦，

Oh,

非常感谢。

thank you very much.

哦，不客气。

Oh, you're welcome.

我打电话来是想问一只股票，它发布了很好的财报。

I'm calling about a stock that released a great earnings report.

你对AVAH Aventa Healthcare的长期看法是什么？

What are your thoughts long term for AVAH Aventa Healthcare?

他们的模式很好。

They have a good model.

他们让我想起Hinge，不完全是，但就是那种低调的赚钱好模式，我觉得你说得对，你应该继续持有。

They remind me of Hinge, not exactly, but just this kind of discreet good model to make money, and I think you're right, you should hold on to it.

我们接听康涅狄格州的Rich。

Let's go to Rich in Connecticut.

Rich。

Rich.

嘿，Booyah Jim。

Hey, Booyah Jim.

好耶。

Booyah.

听着，顺便说一句，我很喜欢你的新书，你最近出的那本。

Listen, I love your new book, by the way, your latest book.

继续写下去。

Keep writing.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我会的。

I will.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

都是因为你们。

Because of you.

我知道你，我知道你喜欢石油管道，而且你提到过能源转移公司。

I know you I know you like the oil pipelines, and you've mentioned energy transfer.

但我该担心能源转移从纽约交易所到得克萨斯吗？

But should I be concerned about energy transfer going from the New York exchange to the Texas

证券交易所？

stock exchange?

我觉得这更多是表面功夫，虽然是聪明的表面功夫。

I should know I gotta tell you I think that's kind of more of a more optics although smart optics.

我觉得凯尔西说得对。

I think Kelsey's right.

我觉得这很棒。

I think it's terrific.

我要说再见了，再见。好了，我们接听密歇根的詹姆斯。詹姆斯。

I'm gonna say bye bye bye bye Alright let's go to James in Michigan James.

大吉姆，谢谢你接听我从密歇根打来的电话。

Big Jim, thank you for taking my call from Michigan.

欢迎。

Welcome.

你有什么问题？

What do you got?

大吉姆，首先我想告诉你，我们是你的超级粉丝。

Big Jim, first and foremost, I wanna let you know that we are a huge fan.

我们看你节目好多年了。

We've watched you for years.

你给了我们很多宝贵的建议，我们真的很感激你在第一线的辛苦付出。

You've given us tremendous advice, and we really appreciate your hard work down in the trenches.

谢谢你，詹姆斯。

Well, thank you, James.

说实话，我觉得我们都在第一线。

I think we're all in the trench, frankly.

那我现在能帮你什么？

So how can I help you right now?

大吉姆，我今晚的问题是康宁，我们持有的一只大股票。

My question this evening, big Jim, is Corning, big stock we own.

现在是个好时机吗？

Is it a good time?

现在是不是该再减持一些？

Is it a good time to take a little more off the table?

我们应该继续持有

Should we sit

还是保持现状？

where we are?

我不

I don't

希望你

want you

那样做。

to do that.

记得在俱乐部里我说过卖掉它。

Remember in the club I said sell sell it.

那时候我只是觉得因为它涨了。

Then I was just finding because it went up.

现在当然又跌下来了。

And now of course it's going down below.

所以今天跌了22美元。

It's so it was down $22 today.

他们是在搞那个市场卖出计划。

They're doing this at at the market sell program.

我不喜欢那些计划。

I don't like those programs.

所以他们每天都在市场上卖股票。

So they're selling stock in the market every day.

我得说等它再跌一点。

I have to say wait till it goes down more.

生意挺好的。

The business is good.

我不喜欢那个卖出计划。

I don't like that sell program.

我不明白他们为什么要这么做。

I didn't know what why they need to do this.

她只是秘书。

She's just to the secretary.

我们连线明尼苏达的查理。

Let's go to Charlie in Minnesota.

查理。

Charlie.

你好。

Hi.

我是明尼苏达的查理。

This is Charlie from Minnesota.

谢谢你接我的电话，克莱默先生。

Thanks for taking my call, mister Cramer.

当然，查理。

Of course, Charlie.

当然。

Of course.

怎么了？

What's going on?

好久不见，第一次通话。

Long time first time.

我是好久不见第一次通话，也是投资俱乐部的成员。

I'm a long time first time and a member of the investing club.

谢谢。

Thank you.

任何一位

Anyone who

谢谢。

thank you.

认识我的人都知道，我一点时尚感都没有。

Anyone who is who knows me knows that I have no fashion sense.

不过，我有个孙女叫Via，在纽约市的一所大学读大四，她很有时尚感。

However, I do have a granddaughter, Via, who is a senior at a university in New York City, who does.

她说她和朋友们最近常去一家叫Reformation Clothing的小型零售连锁店购物，股票代码是REF。

She states that she and her friends have recently been shopping at a small retail chain called Reformation Clothing, symbol REF.

这家公司7月30日上市，发行价15美元一股，现在股价大约14.5美元。

It IPO ed on July 30 at $15 a share and now trading roughly $14.5 a share.

上周他们公布了首个季度财报，每股盈利23美分。

They reported their first quarterly result last week earning 23¢ per share.

他们有140家门店，所以我觉得他们还有很大的增长空间。

They have a 140 stores, so I think they could have a long runway to grow.

你觉得这只股票怎么样？

What do you think about the stock?

我喜欢这个想法。

I like this idea.

我非常喜欢这个想法。

I like this idea very much.

我们接下来要做的，我是本·斯通。

What we're gonna do, I'm go Ben Stone.

我想回到纽约。

I wanna get back to New York.

我们要打开 Reformation 这个股票。

We're gonna we're gonna open the file reformation.

这家公司表现太好了。

The company's doing too well.

它应该比现在更高，但我不想仓促下结论，因为最近男装表现太疲软了。

It should be higher than it is, but I don't wanna make a snap judgment because boy apparel has been so weak lately.

所以我们稍后会回来，谢谢你的建议。

So we will come back and I thank you for the thought.

现在我们要连线科罗拉多州的威尔。

Now we're gonna go to Will in Colorado.

威尔。

Will.

很抱歉，还是我来跟你说话。

I'm sorry to speak with you as always.

我在这里的聊天室里。

So I'm in the chat here

我投资组合的20%，大约40%，或者说，抱歉，是40美元的成本。

for 20% of my portfolio about a 40% or I'm sorry the $40 basis here.

你对

What are

惠普

your thoughts on H.

有

P.

什么看法？

E.

你了解我。

You know me.

近东。

Near East.

好。

Good.

近东。

Near East.

好。

Good.

你知道，说实话，在2013年的时候，我并不认为他们有这个实力。

You know I I candidly when it was 2013 I didn't think they had the horses.

他们确实有这个实力。

They do have the horses.

事实上，说到底我就是戴尔的粉丝，我就是喜欢迈克尔·戴尔，也非常喜欢他的公司。

The fact is is that I'm just a Dell fan I guess in the end I just like Michael Dell and I like his company very much.

没有冒犯尼耶里的意思。

No offense to Nieri.

好了，女士们，闪电问答环节到此结束。

And that ladies of the conclusion of the lightning round.

闪电问答环节由查尔斯·施瓦布赞助。

The lightning round is sponsored by Charles Schwab.

接下来，克莱默对科技领袖处理人工智能叙事的方式感到不满，他接下来会解释原因。

Coming up, Cramer's fed up with how tech leaders have handled the AI narrative, and he's explaining why next.

信任一旦被摧毁，就很难恢复。

Trust, once destroyed, is very hard to restore.

这是我从关于数据中心、速度、安全、竞争力、国家安全、就业、法律等所有严厉批评中得出的结论。

That's my takeaway from all the stern drag about the data center, speed, safety, competitiveness, national security, jobs, laws, you name it.

我必须告诉你，如果你想以资本主义、打败中国、安全等名义摧毁信任，没有比人工智能两大巨头——Anthropic和OpenAI——的做法更好的方式了。

And I have to tell you, if you want to destroy trust in the name of, what, capitalism, beating China, security, you couldn't find a better way to do it than the way that the two kings of AI have done it, Anthropic and OpenAI.

首先，还是那些老套的免责声明。

First, the usual hack caveats.

他们很聪明。

They're brilliant.

他们领先所有人，包括中国人。

They're ahead of everyone, including the Chinese.

确实如此。

There are.

这些公司是人工智能的先驱，所以你不得不怀疑是否有可能让他们受挫。

These companies are the pioneers of artificial intelligence, so you have to wonder if it's possible to feather them.

顺便说一句，也许总统是对的，我们承受不起，因为那只会让中国占上风。

Maybe the president's right, by the way, that we can't afford to because it will just give China a leg up.

但想想我们一路走来的历程。

But think of the journey we've been on here.

我们从认为人工智能能治愈癌症、消除各种苦差事，到认为它会破坏环境、夺走我们的工作，甚至可能夺走我们的生命。

We've gone from thinking AI will cure cancer and eliminate all sorts of drudgery to think it will despoil the environment, take our jobs, and then possibly our lives.

在每个阶段，OpenAI和Anthropic都让内部的人远远落后于形势。

At each stage, OpenAI and Anthropic get the people inside of them well behind the curve.

他们自己制造了很多这种负面情绪，在引起疑虑之后，这让人很难信任他们。

They promoted a lot of this negativity themselves after they generated misgivings, and that makes it difficult to trust them.

当然，这里涉及的不仅仅是两家公司。

Of course, there are more than just two actors who are in play here.

所有大型云服务商，除了苹果，都参与了破坏信任，但道歉的却寥寥无几。

All the hyperscalers Save Apple have had a hand in this breaking of the trust, but there's been an area in apology.

你听过有人道歉吗？

Have you heard one?

那些按合同建造数据中心的企业也一样，但我觉得Anthropic和OpenAI最该负责，因为他们离得最近，从中获利最多，而且他们最终都是非常富有的公司。

Same goes for the companies that build data centers on contract, but I think that anthropically open are the most culpable because they're the closest to it, stand to profit the most from it, and they're very rich companies in the end.

信任在哪里被破坏了？

Where has trust been violated?

首先，我们现在知道，那些寻求数据中心并给予慷慨税收减免的城镇和州，有一个临界点，结果被坑了。

First, we now know that there was a tipping point with the towns and states that sought data centers, gave them bountiful tax breaks, just got had.

他们不知道会有多少数据中心。

They didn't know how many data centers there would be.

他们不知道那些风险，比如用水量、电价上涨这些问题。

They didn't know the hazards like water consumption, higher electricity costs.

也许他们没解释清楚。

Maybe they weren't explained well.

微软、谷歌、亚马逊，这些公司都参与了这件事。

Microsoft, Google, Amazon, they all had hands in that one.

所以现在引发了巨大的反弹，数据中心在选举前都成了政治上的烫手山芋。

So now there's this huge blowback to the point where data centers become politically toxic going into election.

现在根本没人考虑他们能不能停止污染。

No one's even thinking about whether they can possibly stop the pollution.

这些公司难道不能预见这一切，先意识到自己得做好公民吗？

Couldn't these companies have seen it coming and recognize that they need to be good citizens first?

先给钱，而不是拿钱，先修好基础设施，修好电力？

Give money, not take it, fix them, fix electricity?

第二，他们对就业问题也没有答案。

Second, they have no answers for the jobs question.

没有。

None.

即使是现在，看起来情况可能还好，但未来就不一定了。

Even now when it looks like things might be okay, but not in the future.

顺便说一下，只有Meta考虑过这个问题，并且想大力帮助培训技工。

Only Meta has thought about this, by the way, and wants to do a huge amount to help train tradespeople.

干得好。

Good job.

但这个过程开始得晚，需要很长时间。

But as late as that process takes a long time.

多年来，我们一直开玩笑说AI可能对人类构成生存威胁，结果发现这些组织内部的好人一直真心相信存在重大风险。

And now after years of joking about the possibility that AI could be an existential threat to humanity, it turns out that the very good people within these organizations genuinely believe there was a major risk the whole time.

高层人士向我们保证，我们不会在2030年前被淘汰。

Top people assured us that that we weren't gonna be out of here by 2030.

那真是白感谢了。

Thanks for nothing on that one.

所以这个周末我们读到达里奥·阿马迪厄斯的文章时，我们想，好吧。

That's why when we read Dario Amadeus essay this weekend, we think, okay.

他只是想再让一个人对我们感到恐惧，确保政府在Anthropic领先所有人之后介入。

He's just trying to get one more one person dreading it over us, making sure the government comes in after Anthropic has a lead on everyone.

我们认为OpenAI的萨姆·奥特曼可能怀疑这家公司能生成一个恶意的代理群来攻击Hugging Face。

We think OpenAI, Sam Altman, might have suspected this company could generate a, like, malignant swarm of agents to attack hugging face.

如果他们聪明到能搞懂怎么做AI，那他们也聪明到能考虑到所有可能出错的地方并采取行动，比如早期引入网络安全，而不是后来让政府介入，就像十字路口的乔治·柯蒂斯告诉我们的那样。

If they're smart enough to figure out how to do AI, then they're smart enough to consider everything that could go wrong and do something about it, like bringing cybersecurity early on, not the government later on, as crossroads George Curtis told us.

这就是为什么我们这么多人感到被背叛。

That's why so many of us feel betrayed.

我们为什么要相信这些人？

Why should we trust these people?

为什么不干脆相信特朗普，然后说，管他呢，全速前进？

Why not just trust Trump and say, damn, the torpedoes full speed ahead?

我有个主意。

I have an idea.

如果Dario认为人工智能发展太快，那他就应该放慢速度。

If dairy thinks anthropology is going too fast, then he should slow it down.

如果OpenAI、谷歌和微软也这么认为，他们也应该放慢速度。

If OpenAI and Google and Microsoft think that too, they should slow it down.

你不需要政府来告诉你放慢速度，而且如果你采用我的方法，你肯定不用担心反垄断问题。

You don't need the government to tell you to slow it down, and you certainly need to worry about antitrust if you take my method.

顺便说一句，Meta有一个行为准则，规定它进驻时会给当地社区带来什么。

And while we're at it, Meta has a code of conduct about what it will do for localities when it moves in.

这个准则今天应该被普遍采用。

It should be universally adopted today.

它确保社区能从中受益。

It makes sure that the communities come out ahead.

这个准则应该追溯适用于电力、水资源，以及所有我们知道这些数据中心做得不好的方面。

It should be adopted retroactively for for electricity, for water, for all the things that we know these data centers do wrong.

只有这样，这些公司才能重新赢得我们的信任。

That's the only way these companies can start earning back our trust.

如果不这样的话，你知道会是什么样子吗？

If not, you know what's gonna be like?

核能，有史以来提供清洁能源的最佳技术，却因为一大堆负面宣传被搁置了几十年，直到现在才真正开始起步，而且肯定不是经济的方式。

Nuclear power, the best technology to provide clean energy ever, which was scrapped for decades thanks to a heap of bad publicity and only really just now is trying to get started and certainly not an economic way.

我喜欢说，总有一个牛市行情总结。

I like to say there's always a bull market summary.

向所有人承诺，只是为了你的钱。

Promise everybody just for your money.

我是吉姆·克莱默。

I'm Jim Cramer.

明天见。

See you tomorrow.

吉姆·克莱默在本播客中表达的所有观点仅代表克莱默个人意见，并不反映CNBC或其母公司或关联公司的观点，这些观点可能此前已在电视、广播、互联网或其他媒体上由克莱默发布。

All opinions expressed by Jim Cramer on this podcast are solely Cramer's opinions and do not reflect the opinions CNBC or its parent company or affiliates and may have been previously disseminated by Cramer on television, radio, internet or another medium.

你不应将克莱默表达的任何观点视为对特定投资或特定策略的具体诱导，而应仅视为他个人意见的表达。

You should not treat any opinion expressed by Cramer as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy but only as an expression of his opinion.