Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - 开车上班 #7 - 联盟 封面

开车上班 #7 - 联盟

Drive to Work #7 - Alliances

本集简介

马克·罗斯沃特谈到了“结盟”系列。

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好的。

Okay.

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正从车道倒出来。

Pulling out the driveway.

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我们都明白,这意味着该去上班了。

We all know that means it's time for drive to work.

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好的。

Okay.

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今天,我想试试一套我其实没参与设计的牌组。

So, today, I thought I would try a set that I actually was not on the design team for.

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我参与的是它的开发团队。

It's actually set I was on the development team for.

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事实上,那是我加入的第一个团队——《同盟》。

In fact, it was the very first team I ever worked on, Alliances.

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我先简单介绍一下背景,因为今天要讲的一些故事,需要不少上下文才能理解。

So let me sort of set up the the situation because it was a there's a lot of context to understand some of the stories today.

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好吧。

Okay.

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就我个人而言,那时候刚入职不久。

So as far as personally, I had just been hired.

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正如我之前说的,我其实是通过《双生者》杂志接触到威世智的。

As I explained, what happened essentially was I got involved with the wizards through the dualist.

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我先做了个谜题,之后就开始为《双生者》写文章。

I first did my puzzle, and then I started writing articles for the dualist.

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然后通过这个机会,我开始为公司其他部门做自由撰稿的工作。

And then through that, I started doing freelance work for other sections of the company.

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事实上,在正式入职前,我已经给公司差不多七个不同的部门做过活儿了。

In fact, I did work for, I don't know, seven some sections of the company by the time before I got hired.

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我写东西还算靠谱,交稿也从不拖延。

And what happened was I was a good writer and I turned my stuff in on time.

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那时候魔法世界正火,威世智也跟着飞速发展。

And, you know, magic was exploding and wizards was exploding.

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所以那时候工作机会特别多。

And so there's just a lot of opportunities for work.

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有一天,我被叫到公司总部,因为他们以前经常飞我过去做事。

So one day, I'm up at the offices because they used to fly me up to do some stuff.

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我随口说了一句愿意搬到西雅图,结果对方直接问:‘你什么时候能来?’

And I happened to say that I'd be willing to move to Seattle, to which the reply was, when could you start?

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其实我当时已经安排了面试,但情况差不多就是——行,没问题。

I actually had a job interview, but essentially, it's like, okay.

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我们对你很感兴趣。

We're interested in you.

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我跟负责招聘我的迈克·戴维斯说过,那时候他是研发副总裁,我真觉得自己是做设计的,不是搞开发的。

And I I had said to Mike Davis, the guy who hired me, he at the time, the VP of r and d, that I really thought I was the designer, not a developer.

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但他跟我说,他们已经有理查德·加菲尔德了。

But he said, you know, they have Richard Garfield.

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他们不缺设计师。

They didn't need designers.

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他们需要的是开发者。

They needed developers.

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所以我心想,行吧。

So I'm like, okay.

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我本来的长远计划其实是想做设计,但我想,既然他们需要,那就先做吧,先混进去再说。

And my long term plan was always to, you know, get into design, but I figured I I would do what they needed, you know, get my foot in the door.

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所以,我一到那儿,他们第一件事就让我负责《结盟》项目。

So, anyway, when I get there, the very first thing they put me on is Alliances.

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我得强调一下。

Now let me stress.

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那个开发团队特别有意思。

This was a very interesting development team.

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一共有十三个人。

It had 13 members.

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所有跟魔法游戏有关的研发人员,全都在这个团队里。

Every person remotely related in R and D who had anything to do with magic was on the team.

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那为什么呢?

So why?

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为什么会有十三个人?

Why did we have 13?

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要理解这个,我得跟你们说说魔法卡的历史。

So to understand this, let me give you a history of magic.

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从魔法卡刚推出的时候开始,很多年来,他们的做法就是尽可能多地印卡。

So for many years, the from the very beginning of magic, the way magic function was they would just print as many cards as they could.

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当初Alpha版印出来的时候,他们以为够卖六个月。

So when alpha was printed, they printed what they thought was a six month supply.

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结果三周就卖光了。

They sold in, like, three weeks.

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于是他们印了Beta版,还是以为能卖六个月。

So they print beta, but they think it's gonna be a six month supply.

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结果几乎是一下子就卖完了。

Sold almost instantaneously.

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在魔法牌最初的一年半到两年里,这个游戏就是不停地估算印量,但还是供不应求,因为魔法牌的增长速度远超他们扩大印量的能力。

So for the first year and a half to two years of Magic, it was this game of let's completely weigh up our print run, and then we still not meet demand because Magic was growing faster than they could sort of increase the print runs.

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那时候,威世智还不是一个大公司,他们没有足够的资金去大规模印刷,毕竟还不确定这产品到底能不能成功。

Remember the time, you know, Wizards was not a big company and that, you know, they they didn't have the capital necessary to invest in in large amounts of printing, not knowing the success of the product.

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后来,问题变成了印刷时间够不够用——你能抢到多少印刷机的档期?

And then it started becoming a problem of printing, like, how much printing time could you get?

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当然,现在我们和印刷方关系非常稳固,迷你印刷机几乎全天候运转。

Eventually, obviously, we've got a very strong relationship and, you know, now we our mini printers printing constantly.

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但那时候,每笔订单都得靠谈判才能搞定。

But back then, you know, was something where we had to make the deals.

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所以每个新系列的卡牌数量都比上一个多,但永远不够用。

And so what happened is each set would have more cards than set before, but it was never enough.

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于是,所有下单的商家都慢慢明白了:他们实际能拿到的,永远只是订单里的一小部分。

And so all of the people who would order started to learn, oh, well, they're only gonna actually give us some portion of our allocation.

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所以我们就得尽量多报需求。

So what we gotta do is we gotta ask for a lot.

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你知道,不然的话,要想拿到我们真正想要的,就得多报一些需求。

You know, otherwise, you know, to get what we really want, we have to weigh over ask.

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后来,帝国系列终于来了。

So eventually, empires came around.

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到了《衰落的帝国》的时候,威世智就说:好吧。

And by fallen empires, wizards had said, okay.

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我们觉得摸清门道了。

We think we have it down.

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我们能按需求量来印刷了。

We think we can print to what we need.

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好了,各位。

Okay, guys.

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我是认真的。

Seriously.

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真的,我是认真的。

Seriously.

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你需要什么?

What do you need?

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问题是,没人相信他们。

And the problem was nobody believed them.

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你知道的。

You know?

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结果每个人都照老样子下了那些荒唐的订单。

And so everybody ordered the crazy orders that they always ordered.

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巫师说:各位,我们可是按你们说的在印啊。

And Wizard's like, guys, guys, we're printing what you say.

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你知道的。

You know?

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《辐射之夜火》印得太多了,多到离谱。

And, yeah, Fallout Night Fires was way, way, way overprinted.

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你知道的。

You know?

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《辐射夜火》还存在其他问题,我称之为稀有度问题——很多好牌,你知道的,你最想要的那些,居然都是普通牌,你自然希望它们能分散开来。

And Fallout Night Fires had some other problems, what I call rarity problems where a lot of the good cards, you know, like, most of the things you wanted were common and you kinda want to spread them about.

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我的意思是,你当然想要一些精彩的普通牌,但同时也需要一些令人兴奋的稀有牌。

I mean, you want some exciting common cards, you want exciting rare cards as well.

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结果呢,所有好牌全堆在普通牌里了。

And it was kind of all clumped at common.

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总之,《辐射帝国》给公司带来了大麻烦,你知道的,它把市场都淹没了,确实造成了一些负面影响。

Anyway, Fallout Empires was kind of a big problem for the company because, you know, it sort of flooded the market and it it it definitely did some bad things.

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幸运的是,接下来推出的系列是《冰河时代》。

So luckily, the next set to come up was Ice Age.

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《冰河时代》总算让市场平静了下来。

And Ice Age kinda settled the waters.

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大家这才说:好吧。

People are like, okay.

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哇哦。

Whoo.

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哇哦。

Whoo.

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你知道,现在情况好多了。

You know, things things are good.

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但冰河时代之后推出的系列是家园。

But the set after Ice Age was Homelands.

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我经常提到家园系列。

Now I've often talked about Homelands.

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我称它是万智牌历史上设计最差的系列。

I've dubbed it the worst design set in Magic's history.

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它没得到多少认可。

It did not go over well.

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这个系列并不受欢迎。

It was not a very popular set.

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之后整整七个月都没有推出新的万智牌系列。

And then there were no Magic sets for seven months.

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明白吗?

Okay?

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之前有衰落帝国的惨败,接着是冰河时代,就像我说的,那是唯一一场风暴,然后是家园,之后整整七个月都没新卡牌系列。

So we had the Fallen Empires fiasco, then Ice Age, which like I said, was was the one common storm, then homelands, and then seven months of no magic sets.

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所以,联盟系列承载了巨大的期望。

And so what happened was there was a lot riding on alliances.

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这事儿太重要了,非同小可。

That there was a lot it was important.

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我的意思是,如果真有那么一刻,魔法游戏可能就此终结,那肯定就是联盟系列要是搞砸了,人们就会开始质疑魔法游戏的整体前景。

I mean, if ever there was a point where magic could have died, you know, it was sort of if alliances just taint, it really would start bringing to question magic's overall health.

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我当时一上来就充满干劲,热血沸腾。

Now I just come on, you know, and and I I was gung ho.

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但公司也清楚,不能出岔子。

And but the thing was the company understood, okay.

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我们输不起。

We can't mess this up.

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这次必须得成功。

This has to be good.

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如果你在研发部,只要跟魔法卡牌沾边,就全都被拉进了开发团队。

So, literally, if if you were in r and d and you had anything to do with magic, you were on the development team.

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那真是个超大的团队。

It was it was this giant team.

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我以前在专栏里聊过设计团队的事。

Now I've talked before, I mean, my in my column about about design teams.

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通常设计团队也就四到六个人。

And, normally, design team, we tend to have four, maybe to six people.

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我倒是遇过更小的团队,但人一多,问题就来了。

You know, I I've had a few smaller design teams, but if you get too big, it's a problem.

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开发团队也是一样。

And development's the same way.

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人一多,每个人都有意见,讨论起来特别慢,很难做出决定。

That if you have too many people, it just gets so hard that, you know, everybody has a voice and it just it takes long to come to conclusions on things.

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就是有点难掌控。

It it's just a little unwieldy.

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所以挺有意思的是,我真正第一次接手的项目,其实是特别混乱的一套牌,算是被扔进火里淬炼了。

And so it's funny that my kind of, you know, my baptism by fire to say, my my first sort of real set was a very crazy chaotic set.

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我来解释一下当时的混乱情况——当然,我们当时也努力想做出好东西。首先,设计团队就是我之前说的东海岸测试组,成员有斯卡夫·伊莱亚斯、吉姆·林、戴夫·佩蒂和克里斯·佩奇。

And let me explain some of the chaos even above, obviously, we were trying more hard to make sure it was a good So first off, the design team was what I referred to as the East Coast play testers, Scaph Elias, Jim Lin, Dave Petty, and Chris Page.

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后来我听说,吉姆·林和斯卡夫·伊莱亚斯是在普林斯顿读书时认识并成为朋友的。

Now what happened was I believe that Jim Lynn and Scath Elias met each other and became friends when they both went to Princeton.

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之后他们一起去宾夕法尼亚大学读研,就在那儿认识了理查德·加菲尔德。

And then then they went to do graduate work at University of Penn, Pennsylvania where they met Richard Garfield.

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他们应该也是在宾大认识了戴夫和克里斯。

And then they also, I think at UPenn, met Dave and Chris.

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我不完全确定他们是怎么凑到一起的,但总之他们几个是朋友。

I'm not 100% sure how they all got together, but they were friends.

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所以当理查德需要更多新牌组时,这四个人就被安排来负责设计。

And so when Richard needed some more sets made, the four of them, were put to designing sets.

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他们第一个被分配的任务是《冰河时代》。

The first set they actually were assigned was Ice Age.

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结果后来发现,他们其实早在《冰河时代》发布前就做了《古物》。

Now it turns out, they later went and did antiquities, actually came up before Ice Age came out.

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所以这个设计小组先后做了《古物》《异域帝国》《冰河时代》和《联盟》。

So the Ecole Player Center did antiquities, did foreign empires, did Ice Age, and did alliances.

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他们确实是一支非常有才华的团队。

And and by the they're a very talented team.

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你甚至都不用看《联盟》。

You don't even need to look at alliances.

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《联盟》里满是酷炫的点子。

Alliances is like brimming with cool ideas.

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这副牌组里有很多想法,后来我们才慢慢完善,我有时候开玩笑说,它几乎像《未来视界》一样超前。

Like, it is one of those sets where if you kinda go and look, I joke sometimes it's almost a future sight set and that so many ideas that we would later really flesh out.

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你随便挑一张《联盟》里的牌都能看出来。

You can see of one of cards in in Alliances.

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他们是个非常有才华的团队,但也绝对充满热情。

They were very talented team, but they were definitely a very passionate team.

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那时候,吉姆、斯卡夫和戴夫都在研发部。

Now at the time, Jim and Scaff and Dave were all in r and d.

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所以他们都参与了开发团队,因为他们就在那里。

So they were all involved with the development team because they were there.

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这些年下来,设计和开发之间的协作方式逐渐形成了默契。

And I think over the years, there's become sort of rapport between how design development works together.

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作为设计师,我明白开发团队会调整内容,这很正常。

And like, as a designer, I understand the role of development and they're gonna change things.

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但那时候,开发团队还比较新锐。

But back then, development was a little fresher.

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设计团队那时候总觉得:这是我们做出来的东西。

The design team was kinda like, this is what we made.

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这就是我们想要的。

This is what we want.

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你怎么敢随便改东西?

How dare you change anything?

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所以每次开发团队想改点什么,设计团队和开发团队就会吵起来。

And so every time the development team would try to change something, there'd be a fight between the design team and the development team.

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而且很多设计师其实就在开发团队里。

And then a lot of the designers were on the development team.

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所以那时候简直一团乱。

And so it it was there's a lot of chaos to it.

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让我来介绍一下设计团队的成员。

Now let me walk through the design team members a little bit.

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斯卡夫·伊莱亚斯。

Scaff Elias.

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斯卡夫这个人很有个性。

Scaff is quite a character.

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斯卡夫最出名的,应该是他创建了职业巡回赛。

Scaff's probably best known as being the creator of the Pro Tour.

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我知道Scaff讨厌别人这么叫他,但我相信他确实就是这样的。

I know Scaff hates being called that, but I believe he is.

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很长一段时间里,Scaff都在研发部门,做各种他认为能帮助万智牌的事情。

Scaff for a long time, Scaff was kinda in R and D and just did different things that, you know, he thought would help magic.

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有一阵子,他甚至担任过万智牌的品牌经理。

I mean, for a while, he was actually Magic brand manager.

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他曾经短暂负责过OP事务。

He was in charge of OP for bit.

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他确实 oversee 了非常多不同的方面。

I mean, he he definitely oversaw a lot of different aspects.

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他和理查德一起,为这个游戏做了很多宏观层面的思考,琢磨它该往哪儿发展。

And he, along with Richard, did a lot of sort of big picture thinking about the game and where the game wanted to be.

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正是Scaff意识到,如果我们想让万智牌达到应有的高度,就必须建立一套正规的比赛体系。

Scaff was the one that realized that we needed an organized play structure if to make Magic succeed at the level it could.

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而其中一部分,就是得有个让玩家向往的顶尖目标。

And that part of that was there had to be some top level thing for people to want to get to.

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整个体系都是围绕着一个目标运转的,就是你得朝着那个方向努力。

That the entire system worked on, oh, well, there's this goal that you wanna work toward.

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但Scaff这个人真的很特别。

But Scaff was a very interesting company.

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他确实是。

He is.

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他到现在想的还是对的。

He's he's he's still so right.

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他可不是什么巫师。

He's not a wizard.

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我印象最深的是,Scaff总带着个睡袋,直接睡在办公桌底下。

The thing I always remember of Scaff is he had a sleeping bag and he would sleep under his desk.

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有好几周,我觉得他根本没回家,记不清了。

And so there were, like, weeks, I think, I don't even know if he went home.

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累了就往桌上一趴,倒头就睡。我刚来那会儿,早期的日子,当然,现在也一样有很多拼命的人。

He would just, like, when he's tired, he crashed on his desk and, you know, back in the early days when I first started I mean I mean, not that there aren't, clearly, they're hardworking people today.

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确实有。

There are.

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但那时候的氛围就是我们几乎从不休息。

But the the mentality at the time was we barely left off.

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我的意思是,我们出去吃个饭,偶尔看场电影之类的。

I mean, we would go out to eat, maybe see a movie, you know.

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偶尔会去理查德那儿打打游戏什么的。

Every once in a while, go to Richard's to play games or something.

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但我几乎每时每刻都在办公室里。

But, I mean, I was at the office almost every waking moment.

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我根本没空出去吃饭或者回家睡觉。

I wasn't, you know, eating out or sleeping.

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我们经常待到很晚。

And we we would be there late.

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比如,我妈妈曾经从加州开车送我过来。

Like, for example, my mom drove up with me from California.

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我当时住在洛杉矶。

I was living in Los Angeles.

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我搬到这里的时候,就找个人陪我一起开车。

When I moved up here, just have somebody to drive with me.

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我们到城里时差不多快十一点了。

And we get into town at, like, 11:00.

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我就说:‘你要不要去看看我上班的地方?’

And I'm like, oh, do do you wanna see where I work?

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她回我说:‘都十一点了,肯定关门了。’

And she's like, well, it's not gonna be open.

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都十一点了。

It's 11:00.

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去吧,哦,不行。

Go, oh, no.

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不行。

No.

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他们都在那儿。

They'll be there.

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我们一进去,所有人都在。

And, we go in and everybody's there.

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我妈妈还说,都十一点了。

You know, my mom's like, it's 11:00.

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这怎么回事?

What's going on?

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我就说,是啊。

I'm like, well yeah.

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早年还有件挺有意思的事,说起来这基本就是我全家了——我那时候天天加班到飞起。

One of the things that's also funny in the early days is I mean, this is pretty much my family, obviously, is I worked insane hours.

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我记得有一次,彼得·阿特金斯第一次见我妈妈。

I remember once, Peter Atkins is the part of the company.

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他第一次见到我妈妈。

He met my mom for the first time.

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这已经是后来的事了,不是我们刚到那天。

This is later, not not not the first day that we were there.

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他说他特别喜欢我待在身边,因为我一个人顶两个人用。

And he said how much he he liked having me around because I was like having two employees.

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Anyway,那就是Scaff。

And anyway, that's Scaff.

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Scaff确实是个天才,但性格特别随性、捉摸不定。

Scaff is is definitely a creative genius, but he is wild and random.

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我一想到Scaff,就记得他特别爱穿短裤,不管什么天气都穿。

Another image I always have with Scaff is he loved to wear shorts, and he would wear shorts in any weather you can imagine.

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我记得有一次,我们步行去纽约参加第一届职业巡回赛,那天正好暴雪,机场都停了。

And I remember walking to the first Pro Tour in New York where we had a blizzard that shut down the airport.

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因为暴雪导致机场关闭,职业巡回赛推迟了,可Scaff还是穿着短裤在暴风雪里走来走去。

The Pro Tour was delayed because a blizzard shut down the airport and Scaff is walking through the blizzard in his shorts.

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Jim Lin也在研发部门干了很长时间。

So Jim Lin also worked for a long time in r and d.

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事实上,有一段时间他负责非魔法类游戏的设计,后来当上了研发副总裁,就是现在比尔坐的那个位置。

In fact, for a while, he was in charge of non magic game design for a while, then he was the VP of r and d, the position Bill has now.

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再后来,他还升到了比那个职位更高的位置。

And then for a while, he actually was a position above that.

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那时候威世智有过执行副总裁,一些副总裁向他们汇报。

Wizards for a while had, like, executive VPs and certain VPs reporting to them.

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所以吉姆在公司里的职位一路升得很高。

And and so Jim got pretty high up in the organization.

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吉姆这个人挺有意思的,他特别理性,很擅长把各种事情拼凑起来,做事喜欢有条不紊地规划和安排。

So Jim is Jim is funny because Jim definitely has a lot of he's super logical, you know, that he he was very good at sort of piecing things together, but he was, you know, he had sort of a Vulcan mind sort of going that he he really liked to sort of plot and plan together.

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而Scaff做决定的方式则要感性得多。

Where Scaff was much more emotional in kind of how he made decisions.

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而且

And the

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他们俩,按理说

two of them, by the

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他们俩斗得可真够激烈的,传奇级的对决。

way, legendary, the Scaff Jim fights.

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我记得有一次,Scaff和Jim吵了好久,具体多久我也记不清了,反正就是没完没了地争。

The one I remember is Scaff and Jim are fighting for I I have no idea how long, but they were fighting.

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最后我实在受不了了,心想:行了。

And finally, I'm like, okay.

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我累了。

I'm tired.

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我看不下去他们再吵了。

I I can't watch them fight anymore.

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我得回家了。

I have to go home.

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我真的太累了。

I'm so tired.

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于是我就回家,上床睡觉,睡了一觉。

So I go home, go to bed, sleep for some amount of time,

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起床,回来一看。

get up, come back.

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他们还在打。

They're still fighting.

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还是那场架。

Same fight.

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他们已经

They've been

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一直在争执了。

having the argument.

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我走之前他们就吵了好久,我连觉都没睡好,回办公室发现他们还在吵。

For who knows how long before I left, threw my entire sleeping, and I get back to the office and they're continuing.

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我记得有那么几个团队,他们俩都在开发组里,顺便说一句,那是联盟团队。

I remember there were a couple teams in which they were both on the development team and as it was Alliances, by the way.

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这两个人吵起架来,简直让人难以置信。

And those two could fight like you would not believe.

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有趣的是,他们其实是很好的朋友,但就是特别喜欢互相抬杠。

The and the funny thing is they're really good friends, but they loved to argue with each other.

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接下来是戴夫·佩蒂。

Next is Dave Petty.

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我对戴夫了解不多。

I don't know a lot about Dave.

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我们只重叠了短短几个月。

I we only overlapped by a couple months.

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我刚去的时候他在,而我到那儿那年他就走了,说不定还没满一年呢。

Like, he was working there when I first got there, and he left, I mean, within the year that I got there and maybe even less than that.

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戴夫人特别好。

Dave Dave was real nice.

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他特别聪明。

He was really smart.

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我的意思是,这些人都非常聪明。

I mean, all these guys were really smart.

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他比较安静一些。

He was a little more quiet.

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我不知道该说什么关于戴夫的事。

I don't know what to say about Dave.

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他挺体贴的,但跟斯蒂夫和吉姆比起来,他特别内向、低调,斯蒂夫和吉姆才是一开口就特别张扬的那种人。

I mean, he was he was thoughtful, but he was he was I mean, Steph and Jim were much more in your face and loud, and Dave was a very quiet shy, I mean, comparatively to Steph and Jim.

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克里斯·平奇从来没在巫师队工作过。

Chris Pinch never worked at Wizards.

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我和克里斯见过几次面。

I've interacted with Chris a couple times.

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我参加过一些活动,见过他,每次我写关于这个团队的文章,他都会读。

I saw him at some events, and Chris is Chris will always whenever I write about about the group, Chris reads my articles.

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他总会给我发一些细节,我和他的往来通常是我发点什么,他就回点什么。

He always will send me in little details and, you know, my correspondence with him is usually I say something.

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事实上,他听完这个大概会给我发邮件,说:你这儿写对了,那儿写错了。

In fact, he'll probably listen to this and send me an email going, here's the things you got right and here's the things you got wrong.

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所以我跟Chris有点交情,我最难忘的一件事是,他请我去参加《冰河时代》的预览活动。

So I have I have a little rapport with Chris, and my favorite story with Chris is I got flown to the ice age prerelease.

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那是我第一次见到这张牌,它在空中悬浮着,因为我特别喜欢《黑暗》系列里的金卡,经常提到它。

And the first time I saw this, they're in orbit, like because I love Dark Hard of the Wood from the I talk about gold cards from from the dark.

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我当时就惊了,天哪。

And so I'm like, oh my god.

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你可以牺牲一张地牌来回复三点生命值。

You can sacrifice land and get life and three lives.

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这牌太强了,因为它的费用是零。

I that seems really good because it was way it cost zero.

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比《黑暗》里的那张木纹石强太多了,我觉得那张牌本来就已经不错了。

It was way better than dark hardwood, which I thought was a decent card.

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我记得我跟Chris说:你们居然真把这张牌印出来了。

And I remember saying to Chris, I go, you guys printed this.

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我不是那种追求强力卡牌的人。

This I mean and I'm not a power guy.

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对吧?

Right?

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我平时不太懂这些,但就连我都觉得,哇,这太厉害了。

I'm I'm I'm never been good, but even I was like, wow.

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这简直太离谱了。

This seems like crazy.

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我记得克里斯当时说:‘不,你完全搞错了。’

And I remember Chris was going, oh, no.

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你完全想错了。

You're you're completely wrong.

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这张牌其实一点问题都没有。

This the card's absolutely fine.

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这事儿挺搞笑的,因为克里斯本来就很聪明。

So I it was just funny because Chris is a smart guy.

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他通常不会这样。

That it's not really typical.

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我唯一记得的关于克里斯的事,就是那次我真跟他较真了一回。

I just it's my one memory of of Chris is the one time I I actually challenged him something.

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我当时居然准确猜出了那张强力牌,这可不像是我平时能干出来的事。

Was like, well, I actually correctly identified the powerful card, is not something I'm I'm I'm usually good at.

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总之,制作这个系列时,有一支由十三名开发者组成的团队。

So anyway, there was a team of 13 developers to make the set.

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我想聊聊我在这个系列里具体做了些什么。

So I wanna talk a little bit about what I did in the set.

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我最早设计的联赛牌,其实就是在《联盟》系列里第一次动手的。

So I actually did my first league cards I ever designed actually were in alliances.

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当时只要团队发现缺牌,就会直接补几张新的。

So what happened is when they would have holes, the development team would just create cards.

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我当时就想证明自己有能力做设计。

And I was trying to prove that I could design.

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所以只要一有空缺,我就拼命地设计卡片,一刻不停。

So whenever there was a hole, I was designing cards like nobody's business.

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顺便说一句,这还是另一件大事。

And that by the way, that's another big thing.

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我们刚雇了丹·埃蒙斯。

We just hired Dan Emmons.

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因为我的事情耽搁了,所以这事有点延迟,不过大概一个月前,我们雇了丹·埃文斯。

This is delayed a little bit because my things are delayed, but, you know, a month ago or so, we hired Dan Evans.

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他是个绝佳的例子——从客服做起,一来就主动找我们,我们在人才搜寻时就认识他了,因为他帮过很多人。

And he's a perfect a perfect example of a guy who got in, got in customer service, came to us right away, and we knew him from the great design search too because he had helped a lot of people.

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他说,我想加入研发团队。

And he's like, I wanna be in r and d.

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我想设计《万智牌》。

I wanna design magic.

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我能做点什么?

What can I do?

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我就跟他说:那就先去补设计上的空缺吧。

And I'm like, well, design holes.

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他干得那叫一个漂亮。

And he did that like nobody's business.

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厉害到我们都开始把他安排进项目组了。结果你猜怎么着,也就过了一年多,他现在已经是全职设计师了。

So much so that we started putting him on teams and then bam, you know, I mean, a year, year and a later, he's actually on he is now a full time designer.

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好。

Okay.

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顺便提个冷知识,这三张牌是我设计的,也是我第一次为万智牌设计卡牌。

The three cards that I designed, the first three cards ever designed by me to appear in a magic set for for future trivia.

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第一个是铂金图书馆。

Number one was library of platinum.

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那张卡的意思是,好吧,对手。

So that was the card that said, okay, opponent.

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你可以选择。

You get to choose.

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我是获得精神回溯,还是获得恶魔导师?

Do I get an Inceptual Recall or do I get a demonic tutor?

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我不太确定具体是怎么回事,但我记得当时 artwork 已经定稿了,所以我们知道这张牌得跟法师有关,背景大概是图书馆里站着几个人之类的。

I'm not sure where like, I know I think what happened was this, the art was already in and so we knew it had to be like a sorcerer hinged in and there was like people standing around in a library or something.

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我特别喜欢这个设计:我有两样超棒的东西,但由你来选,我拿哪一个。

And I I love the idea of I have an awesome thing, two awesome things, but you decide which of the awesome things I get.

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你是希望我拿到卡牌优势,还是希望我直接得到我最需要的那张牌?

Would you rather I have the advantage of cards or rather I I, you know, get the specific of what I need?

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哪个更让你纠结?

What which scares you more?

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第二张牌是‘命运士兵’。

Second card was soldier of fortune.

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这是一张生物牌,你可以横置它来让所有玩家洗牌——说起来挺有意思,我做的第一张牌,现在居然已经不再设计了。

That's a creature you can tap to make title players shuffle the library, which is funny by the way that one of the first cards I made is a card that we don't make anymore.

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我们现在对洗牌的态度很明确:除非别无选择,否则绝不随便让玩家洗牌。

We are very I mean, not that shuffling doesn't happen, our our the current stance on shuffling is we shuffle when you have to shuffle and there's no other choice.

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洗牌太耗时间,会影响游戏节奏。

Shuffling takes time, you know, it slows down the game.

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所以我们现在的态度是,能不洗牌就不洗,非得洗的时候才洗。

And so our attitude now is kind of like, well, you know, we shuffle when we have to, but we try to avoid shuffling whenever we can.

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所以那种专门用来洗牌的卡,肯定是不行的。

So a card that does nothing but shuffle is definitely right out.

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其实我觉得那张卡的名字还是我起的。

I think I actually named that card by the way.

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还有另一张著名的卡,我待会儿再说,那张也是我起的名字。

I this is another famous card I'll get to in a second that I I did name.

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好的。

Okay.

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我设计的第三张卡是‘古斯塔的权杖’。

The third card I designed was Gusta's Scepter.

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我只记得我刚去的时候,应该是这样的。

All I remember is when I got there, I I believe this is correct.

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我当时在洛杉矶有朋友,其中一个是亨利·斯特恩,我让他们当测试玩家。

I my I had friends from LA, one of which was Henry Stern, that I set up to be playtefters.

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我相信正是他们发现原始的鹅之信使有缺陷,所以我们得设计一张新卡。

And I believe that they were the team that figured out that the original goose receptor was broken and they had we had to design a new card.

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我当时心里已经有了一个想法。

And so I had this idea in my mind.

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这张卡的设计非常紧凑,你可以用它把一张手牌放逐出去,让它暂时离开手牌,但之后又能拿回来。

It was a real narrow card because you can, like, use it to put a card in your hand, to exile a card in your hand so that it's no longer in your hand, but can then get back later.

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我一直觉得,在合适的套牌里,这张卡会特别强。

And the funny thing is I always knew, like, in the right deck, it could be really good.

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多年后在罗马Pro大赛上,布莱恩·哈克用一套疯狂的牌组,第一回合打出鹅之信使,第二回合就直接赢了。

And then at Pro Tour Rome many years later, Brian Hacker played this crazy deck with, like, turn one, goose deceptor, and turn two, you're dead.

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第一回合,鹅之信使,结束。

Turn one, goose deceptor, done.

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第二回合,你就输了。

Turn two, you're dead.

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我每次想到都觉得好笑,因为这卡本身其实挺正常的,直到有人把它玩到极致。

And I always laughed because, like, it was fine until right.

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正好出现了一套能把它打爆的牌组。

The exact kind of deck came along that broke it.

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虽然布莱恩没进八强,但很多人觉得他牌组最强,只是运气不好。

While Brian didn't actually make top eight, a lot of people believed he had the best deck that he got unlucky and that his deck was the best deck of the tournament.

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这可能是标准赛历史上最强大的一套牌了。

And that's the most powerful, probably standard tournament ever in the history of mankind or the side of standard.

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这三张牌都是我设计的。

So those are the three cards I designed.

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就像我说的,它们都没什么特别出彩的。

Like I said, none of them were standouts.

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我觉得我后来设计的一些牌反而更具有代表性。

I mean, I I think I have some cards that will come later that were a little more defining cards.

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比如紧接着的米拉日系列里的‘晨光’,我觉得那张才是我更经典的代表作。

I mean, the very next set, Mirage's Morrow in it, for example, which I I consider much more of a classic card for me.

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另外我还想聊聊命名这件事。

Now, one other thing that I talked about is naming.

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当时有一个创意团队。

So there was a creative team.

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他们那时候叫‘连续性小组’。

They were called Continuity at the time.

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他们做的世界构建工作没现在这么多。

And they weren't doing as much world building as they were doing.

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我的意思是,他们还是做了一点世界设定的。

I mean, they did a little bit of world building.

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我想他们主要负责卡牌的概念设计。

I I guess they did the card concept.

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所以他们也算做了世界构建,但没像现在这么重要。

So I guess they did the world building, but it wasn't as a big thing as now.

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我知道‘意志力’会是这套卡牌的主打卡。

And so they I knew that force of will was going to be the card of the set.

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事实上,这张卡后来引发了不少问题,我们马上就会说到。

In fact, that card will cause a bunch of problems, which we'll get to in a second.

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他们给它取的名字实在太平淡了。

And they had a name for it that was really lackluster.

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我就去找他们,说:嘿,各位,这张牌可不一般。

And I'm like so I went to them, like, oh, guys, guys, this is the card.

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这才是真正的核心。

Like, this this is the man.

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以后大家提到这张牌,指的就是它。

This is the one that people are going to point to.

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这名字必须得够劲爆。

This has to have an awesome name.

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他们说:哎,我们手头事儿多着呢,你知道的。

And they're like, look, we got a lot to do, you know.

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我就坚持说:不行,这名字得改得更好。

And I'm like I said, no, it needs a better name.

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他们回我:行啊,你要是有更棒的名字,我们当然欢迎。

They're like, hey, look, if you give us a better name, fine.

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但我们还有好多别的事要忙。

But we got a lot of other stuff to do.

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所以我只好说,行吧。

So I said, okay.

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好吧。

Okay.

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于是我开始想办法取个更好的名字,具体试了多少个我记不清了,但确实花了很多时间,就为了给这张卡找到一个合适的名称。

So I set out to make a better name and I don't I don't know how many names I looked through, but I I spent a lot of time trying to find the right name for this card.

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最后,我偶然想到了‘意志之力’,那一刻我就知道,就是它了。

And finally, I stumbled upon Force of and I'm like, that's it.

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意志之力。

Force of Will.

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这名字太棒了。

That is awesome.

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我去跟他们说,我记得他们的反应是,我说:‘不行,这名字绝对不行。’

And I went to them and I remember the response was, I'm like, no.

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不行。

No.

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这名字真不错。

It's a really good name.

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这名字特别好。

It's really good name.

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我当时就想,好吧。

I'm like, okay.

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后来他们改成了《意志之力》。

And then they got changed to force of will.

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我对《联盟》的主要贡献就是那三个设计,还有就是把名字改成了《意志之力》。

So my my big contributions to Alliances is that those three designs and I got force of will changed to be called force of will.

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那套牌开发期间还有件挺搞笑的事,设计团队觉得在每张牌的名字里都加上‘大猩猩’这个词会很有趣。

The other things that went on during the set, one of the things that was funny is the design team thought it would be funny to put the word gorilla in every card title.

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所以我觉得,《意志之力》最初的名字可能是‘大猩猩大猩猩大猩猩大猩猩大猩猩’。

And so, like, I think I think Force of Will's original name was like, gorilla gorilla gorilla gorilla gorilla.

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别闹了。

Stop that.

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所以呢,每张牌里都有大猩猩,这就是为什么《联盟》里真的出现了大猩猩。

And anyway, every card that's why that's why there actually are gorillas in Alliances.

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是的。

Yeah.

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如果你仔细看,确实有几张牌里有大猩猩,这算是对当初那个大猩猩命名梗的致敬。

I mean, if you ever look at the I there's a gorilla cards and that was kind of a nod to the gorilla joke of the names.

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我也不明白大猩猩跟这有什么关系,但他们觉得这挺搞笑的。

I don't really know why gorillas have anything to do with anything, but they thought it was funny.

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所以,总之,《鲸之力》倒是个不错的引子,带出《联盟》里真正重要的故事。

So anyway, Force of the Whale is a good lead into the the the actually, big story of Alliances.

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当时威世智承受了很大压力。

So there's a lot of pressure wizards.

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大家都觉得,这次的设定成败全系于此了。

There's a lot of belief that, like, the marbles all rode in this set.

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所以啊,品牌团队那边,还有彼得·阿克森,当时是总裁兼首席执行官。

And so they you know, the the brand team and the the Peter Peter Akerson was the president, the CEO.

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他们来找我们,说:喂,各位。

And they came to us and they said, okay, guys.

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这个系列怎么样?

Is this set good?

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没错。

Right.

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是的。

Yeah.

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这个系列很不错。

This set is good.

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这个系列真的挺棒的。

This set is good.

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这可不是又一个《家园》那样的作品。

This isn't, you know, another homeland.

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不行。

No.

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不行。

No.

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彼得,这个方案不错。

Peter, this this is a good set.

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客服人员就是你遇到问题时可以打电话过去、接电话的人。

Meanwhile, customer service is the people who you know, if you have a problem, you can call and answer the phones.

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我们很喜欢Carta Ultimate Nightmare Wizard Wizard Coast的客服。

We like the Carta Ultimate Nightmare Wizard Wizard Coast customer customer service.

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这个在团队里提到过。

It was referenced in this group.

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他们做得特别好的一点是直接跟客户打交道。

And so one of the things that they're very good about is they interface with the customers.

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那时候,研发部门很少直接接触客户。

And at the time, r and d didn't interface much with the customer.

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我的意思是,现在我当然很努力地去做,和其他部门一样,社交媒体也让这件事比以前容易多了。

I mean, now, obviously, I make a lot of effort to do it as well as other people's in r and d, and social media makes a lot easier than it once was.

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但那时候,负责对外沟通的主要是客服团队,他们觉得《同盟》这套牌糟透了。

But at the time, the experts in sort of dealing with public was customer service, and they thought Alliances was horrible.

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特别是他们觉得那些‘倾泻’牌,比如‘意志之力’,根本不该这样设计——不用法力,直接弃一张同色牌就能施放。

In particular, they felt that the pitch cards, like force of will is a pitch card where instead of, spending mana, you could pitch a card in the same color to play it.

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他们觉得这简直是亵渎。

And they thought that was abomination.

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他们说,这打破了万智牌里绝对不能破的规矩。

They're like, it just broke a rule that should not be broken in magic.

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总的来说,他们就是觉得这玩意儿怎么都对不上味儿。

And in general, they just weren't they just felt like it it wasn't clicking.

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所以彼得开始越来越紧张。

And so Peter started getting really nervous.

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品牌团队也开始坐不住了。

The brand team started getting nervous.

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我们就跟他们说:别担心,别担心。

And we were like, guys guys guys, don't worry.

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我跟你们保证,这真的特别棒。

We swear it's really good.

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结果他们决定把印刷量砍掉一半。

And then they decided to cut the print run-in half.

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我当时已经快急疯了。

And I already was freaking out.

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我们说:拜托,别这样。

We're like, okay, come on.

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我们得全力支持这个系列。

We we we need to double down on this set.

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这个系列真的特别好。

We need to this set is the good set.

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咱们应该大力推广这个系列。

You know, we should push this set.

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所以研发团队凑在一起,我们达成了这么个协议。

So R and D got together and we we made the following deal.

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我觉得Scaff拿着这个方案去找了Peter。

So scaff I think scaff went to to Peter with his deal.

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他说:行,没问题。

He said, okay.

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这是研发团队愿意做的部分。

Here's what R and D is willing to do.

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我们自己出钱,把原本要印的另一半也印出来。

We will put up our own money to print the other half of the printing that we were going to print.

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研发团队承担所有费用,接下来我们这么分:

R and D will pay for it, and then here's what we'll do.

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利润我们五五分,各拿一半。

We'll split with you $50.50 any profits.

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如果情况不妙,这套产品卖不动,你一点风险都没有。

So if things go bad, if the set is bad, you have no risk.

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但如果这套做得好,那你就得跟我们分利润,毕竟我们愿意承担这个风险。

But if the set is good, then, hey, you share the profits with us because we're we're willing to take this risk.

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这让彼得意识到,R&D的人可不是傻子。

And that made Peter realize that, like, r and d is we're no dummies.

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于是他心想,哦,原来如此。

And the fear is like, oh, okay.

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而且我们真的是说到做到,拿真金白银来证明。

And, you know, like, we're willing for the money our money where our mouth was.

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这也让彼得明白了,好吧。

And it made Peter realize that, okay.

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他重新下了订单,说:行,我信你们。

You know, he he put the order back up and said, okay.

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我确实信任R&D,这挺讽刺的,因为我以前总说,要是他们有

I I have faith in r and d, which is funny because I always said, like, if they had a

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要是再少点信任,我现在钱就更多了。

little less faith, I got a lot more money right now.

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不过话说回来,幸运的是,我们说服了上面的人。

But, anyway so luckily, we convinced the powers to be.

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后来,SEC 确实取得了巨大的成功。

It the sec did go on to obviously be very successful.

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说起来挺有意思的,就像我之前说的,当你从当时的角度看一个系列,感觉真的很奇怪。

And so, I mean, it's it's funny because like I said, the it's weird how when you see a set from where it's at.

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我经手过好几个后来变成爆款的系列。

Like, I have a lot of sets that went on to be giant sets.

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但那时候,谁也说不准。

But at the time, you don't know.

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我这儿还留着当年设计拉尼卡时,我上司兰迪·布勒的评价。

Like, I actually I have a review from Randy Randy Bueller was my boss at the time, the year that I designed Ravnica.

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那条评论写的是:马克对这个系列很有信心,但我还不确定。

And then the the review was, Mark is very confident in the set, but I'm not sure.

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得等系列发布之后再看效果。

We'll have to see when the set comes out.

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他当时只给了我一个中等评价,因为他还不愿意认可这个系列,毕竟只有我坚信它会非常出色。

And he gave me, like, an average grade at the time because, like, he wasn't willing to give me credit for the set yet because only I had the statement it's going to be really good.

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说实话,我工作的难点之一就是得往前看,预测未来会怎样。

And there's a lot I mean, one of things that's hard is my job is to look ahead and see, you know, what's coming.

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就像我说的,我们当时已经对联盟系列失去信心了,但那套牌其实打破了不少规矩。

And like I said, we are out of faith in alliances, but, you know, it it was breaking a bunch of rules.

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我觉得‘投掷牌’这个机制就严重违反了核心规则。

I I think pitch cards were breaking a major rule.

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你懂的吧?

You know?

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因为这里有个有意思的现象。

Because and here's an interesting thing.

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我简单说一下,这种状况其实一再发生。

Let me talk about this real quick because this is a dynamic that happens again and again.

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双面牌和投掷牌一样,当初反对双面牌的人,用的也是同样的理由:这根本不像个游戏。

I mean, double faced cards have the exact same the same people who were trying to stop double faced cards use the same argument that people were trying to stop pitch cards were, which is, here's a game.

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游戏中有些东西是基本前提。

There's certain givens in the game.

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我玩过这游戏,也慢慢摸清了那些规矩。

I've played the game, and I've I've learned certain rules.

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突然间,你们却在改掉一些在我看来根本就是游戏核心的东西。

And all of a sudden, you're taking something that to me is fundamentally just what the game is and changing it.

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这让我觉得很不舒服。

And that makes me feel uncomfortable.

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你们把游戏变成了我认识的、我热爱的那个游戏之外的另一个东西。

You are making the game something other than the game that I know and love.

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这事儿不能这么干。

You can't do that.

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这种情况经常发生,因为大家都对这游戏特别有感情。

And that happens a lot because people are very passionate about the game.

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偶尔,有人就会打破一条规矩。

And then once in while, you break a rule.

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通常这事儿挺引人注目的,但你这次打破的规则,让人觉得:哎,这规则本来就不该碰啊。

Usually, it's a pretty splashy thing, but you're breaking some rules that seems like, oh, we're not supposed to break that.

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分牌那会儿就出现过。

Split cards were there.

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我知道混血牌也试过一点点。

I know hybrid was there a little bit.

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每次你搞点本质上不一样的东西,大家就会说:哎,这我不太能接受。

Like, every time you're kinda doing something that's fundamentally different, people are like, oh, I don't I don't know about that.

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而我的工作就是得说:听好了。

And it's my job to kinda say, look.

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有些事你真不该做。

There's things you shouldn't do.

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别为了改动而改动。

Like, you shouldn't do things just to do them.

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但如果真有道理,你就得明白,这个游戏比任何单一机制都大得多——比如,大家觉得魔法的精髓就是对方手牌用光了就赢了,但真的是这样吗?

But if there's a point to it, you know, the game is bigger than any function of the game and that, you know, it might seem like, oh, well, magic's all about knowing that your opponent can't do anything if they're tapped out, but it's sort of like but is it?

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这真的是游戏的核心吗?

Is is is that fundamental to the game?

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这才是游戏的本质吗?

Is that the core of what the game is?

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每当你挑战某样东西时,都得想想,这其实是游戏的承重墙——用建筑术语来说。

And whenever you challenge something, you have to sort of say, you know, it's just a bearing wall of the game to use a, come from architecture.

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在建筑里,承重墙就是支撑整栋楼的关键结构。

So a bearing wall in architecture means this is, you know, something that is holding up the building.

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这堵墙不能拆。

You can't knock down this wall.

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要是拆了这堵墙,整栋楼就塌了。

If you knock down this wall, the building collapses.

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所以在设计时,你得搞清楚哪些是你的承重墙。

And so one of the things in design is you have to understand what your bearing walls are.

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明白吗?

You know?

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当我把一套方案交给开发团队时,我必须清楚哪些是关键部分。

And, like, when I hand over a set to development, I have to know my bearing walls.

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我得明白,我的设计里哪些东西是真正重要的。

I have to know what about my set is really important.

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如果他们删掉的不是关键部分,我就说,行,没问题。

So if they knock down something that isn't a bearing, well, I go, oh, okay.

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你知道,没了那个,游戏也不会出问题。

You know, that that's not gonna the the second survive without that.

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但如果他们动了我知道的关键部分,我就会说:别别别,这个设定必须保留。

But if they take something that I know is a bearing wall, I'm like, guys, guys, guys, you can't the set needs that.

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这个绝对不能删。

You can't take that out.

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整个设定都靠它撑着。

The set rides on that thing.

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所以每当我们想改动魔法世界的任何东西,都得问一句:这是不是这个游戏的基石?

And so whenever we try to change something about magic, you gotta say, is this a bearing wall of the game?

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但实际上,真正关键的部分比你想象的少得多。

And the answer is there's a lot less bearing walls than you think.

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可能你觉得,知道对手已经没法行动很重要,但说实话,这没你想象的那么关键。

It might seem like, oh, what's important to know that my opponent's tapped out that he can't do anything, but the reality is, not as important as you think.

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当时觉得特别重要,因为那就是你所熟悉的。

At the time, it seems very important because that's what you know.

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还有另一点,做设计时你得面对未知,但人们总是用已知的东西来评判。

And and that's the other thing, by the way, which is part of doing design is going into the unknown, and people can only judge by the known.

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你明白吗?

You know?

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你没法用自己不了解的东西去评判。

You can't judge by things you don't know.

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你得拿它跟已有的东西做比较。

You have to compare it to things.

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有趣的是,每当你推出新机制或新卡牌,大家第一反应就是:这跟魔法里哪张牌最像?得找个参照物才能理解它。

In fact, the funny thing is whenever you have a new mechanic or a new card, what everybody does is they go, well, what's card in magic that's closest to this so I can get some idea of how to think about it.

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你知道吗,因为你遇到的这种东西真的特别另类。

You know, because you get something truly out there.

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就是,我也不知道该怎么处理。

It's like, I don't know what to do.

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这张卡根本就没法儿跟别的卡比。

There's nothing like this card.

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我真的不知道该怎么去理解它。

I I don't know how to think about it.

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随着万智牌越来越老,这种事也越来越难发生了。

And as magic gets older and older, it's harder and harder to do that.

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所以呢,这种事也不是经常出现。

So, you know, it's it's not like it happens all the time.

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但确实是我们得留心的事。

But it is something that, I mean, we have to be conscious of.

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咱们来看看。

So let's see.

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我在想还有没有其他有趣的联盟故事。

Trying to think any other fun Alliances stories.

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我也不太确定。

I don't know.

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哦,有个挺有意思的事。

The oh, here's an interesting thing.

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最后一点,很多人以为《联盟》是《冰河时代》的续作。

One last thing is so Alliances people think Alliances is being the follow-up to Ice Age.

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但实际上,这更多是我们这边的误解,而不是设计师的本意。

And the reality was that was more on our end than it was on the designer's end.

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他们压根没打算把这套牌做成《冰河时代》的续集。

They really did not make the set to be a follow-up to Ice Age.

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他们只是做了另一套新牌。

They more made another set.

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因为那时候,大家还记得吧,卡牌系列之间还没形成固定联动。

Because at the time, remember, sets weren't tied again.

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当时必须得有个系列。

Had to have a block.

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根本就不存在这种概念。

Didn't didn't exist.

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所以冰河时代和联盟其实是我们最早萌生系列想法的尝试。

And so kind of Ice Age and Alliances was our our proto getting the idea of having a block.

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如果你仔细看联盟这个系列,会发现它和冰河时代几乎没什么关联。

And so what happens is if you actually look at, Alliances, there's very little carried over from Ice Age.

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真的少得惊人。

I mean, a surprising little.

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我记得,好像完全没用过雪地卡牌,整个系列里也就那么几张吧。

Like, I remember I mean, I I think, like, there was zero snow covered things, and I think it's only a couple in the set.

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我记得当时我们还设计了一只大猩猩。

I mean, I remember I remember putting on the gorilla.

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那只大猩猩如果遇到雪地效果,就会被踩扁。

There's a giant gorilla that we like, he gets trampled if you have snow cover or something.

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就是个小细节。

I mean, minor thing.

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你懂的。

You know?

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实际上,当年设计这个系列的时候,并没打算把它做成后续系列的前传,不像后来的系列那样有明确的延续性。

And that really, when the set was designed, it wasn't designed to be, so much of a follow-up in this in the way that later blocks would have a follow-up.

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它本身就有独立的一套东西,只是有部分元素被保留了下来。

You know, it really had its own things to it going on and that some of it got carried on.

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我觉得他们只沿用了那么一两个点,但有意思的是,现在回头看,后续系列一出来就讲究机制上的无缝衔接。

I think they took one or two things, but it's funny in that, you know, nowadays, like, the like, when you have a follow-up, it integrates and it's all mechanics.

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可那时候,Alliances 真的是我们第一次尝试搞什么剧情延续性。

And and back then, like, that that was such a I mean, Alliances was really the first time we even experimented with the idea of any continuity.

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你懂的。

You know?

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要说延续性的话,Dominaria 倒是有一点点。

I mean, Dominaria, I guess, had a little bit of continuity.

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但第一步是推出额外的扩展包。

But the first step was extra expansion.

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这算是一个小配套,本来就是打算和它一起用的。

Here's a small step that's kinda meant to go with it.

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另一个有意思的地方是,那时候大家玩的是密封赛,而不是Draft——当时Draft还没流行起来。

And the other interesting thing was the idea that you would draft or not even draft, but drafting wasn't really big at the time, but seal play.

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你可以把《冰河时代》和《联盟》放在一起打密封赛。

Then you play seal play with Ice Age and Alliances.

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这两套牌搭配得挺自然的。

They went together.

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你知道吧?

You know?

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我觉得在当时,这算是挺新鲜的玩法了。

I mean, I think that was a pretty a pretty new thing in in in the day.

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有意思的是,按现在的标准来看,《冰河时代》和《联盟》的限制环境其实算不上多出色。

And it's funny because, I mean, Ice Age Alliances by modern techniques was a a not the greatest limited environment.

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但那时候,这已经是个进步了。

But in the day, it was it was an advancement.

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你懂的。

You know?

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最难记住的是,别用现在的标准去看,得看它当时所处的环境。

And that's the hardest thing to remember is, you know, looking at things not in modern context, but in the context of where they were at the time.

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你懂的。

You know?

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在我看来,Alliances 那个系列在当时绝对是革命性的。

Because Alliances, in my mind, you know, was one of the really revolutionary sets of its time.

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而且,我真的很自豪能参与其中。

And, you know, I I'm I'm proud to have worked on it.

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你懂的。

You know?

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其实我也没怎么参与其中。

I mean, I I didn't have a lot to do with it.

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当时一共有十三个人。

There was 13 people.

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你知道的。

You know?

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我刚才说了,我设计了三张牌,还给它起了名字。

Like I said, I designed three cards and I named for it's a will.

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你知道的。

You know?

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不过,能参与这个系列我真的很兴奋,因为它实在太酷了。

But, hey, that I I was excited to be part of that set because it was a very cool set.

Speaker 0

所以我把车停在威世智这儿了,这意味着今天这期节目该结束了。

So I've just parked my car here at Wizards, which means it's time to end today's episode.

Speaker 0

我特别喜欢聊联盟系列,下次再见,毕竟我们还得继续做魔法卡片呢。

I enjoy talking about alliances, and I'll see you next time because it's time to make the magic cards.

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