通勤路上 #9 - 心理特征

好的。

Okay.

正从我的车道上倒车。

Pulling on my driveway.

我们都明白这是什么意思。

We all know what that means.

该去上班了。

It's time for another drive to work.

好的。

Okay.

今天，我经常被问到一个问题，因为我参加很多访谈，就是：我对《万智牌》最大的贡献是什么？

So today, one of the questions I get asked a lot, because I do a lot of interviews, is what is my biggest contribution to Magic?

我为《万智牌》工作了十七年，其中十年担任主设计师。

Now I've worked for seventeen years on Magic, ten of which I've been head designer.

所以大家想知道，我认为自己对这个游戏最大的影响是什么？

And so people wanna know, what do I think is the biggest influence I've had on the game?

这个问题真不好回答。

And it's a tough question to answer.

我当然做了不少事情。

Obviously, I've done a lot.

但我每次回答时最常提到的，就是玩家心理画像，你们可能更熟悉的名字是提米、强尼和斯派克。

But I think the thing that I always the the answer I give is the player psychographics, which is you guys might know as Timmy, Johnny, and Spike.

今天我想聊聊玩家心理画像的由来，再详细解释一下，因为我觉得大家对它们的理解还不够深入。

So today, I was gonna talk about where the player psychographics came from and explain them in a little more detail because I feel like I feel like they're not completely understood.

我的意思是，大家大概能明白它们的意思，但我今天想多讲讲背后的故事。

I mean, I think people can get the general gist of them, but I wanna sort of talk a little more behind the scenes today.

那我们先来定义一下：什么是心理画像？它们是怎么来的？

So let's start by saying, what are psychographics and where do they come from?

我以前总说，我刚进研发团队时，那里完全是数学导向的，当时做游戏的那些人——理查德、斯卡夫、吉姆，还有其他人——都是搞数学的。

Because one of the things I always said is when I got to r and d that r and d was very based on math, that most of the people who were working on it, you know, Richard and Scaff and Jim and all those people were math people.

他们受过数学训练，所以游戏在设计上深受数学思维的影响。

They had studied math and that, the game had a lot of math influence on the way it was created.

我则把心理学带了进来。

And I kinda brought psychology to the picture.

我常说的是，我让研发团队的思维方式从数学转向了心理学。

One of my lines is that I kinda shifted shifted r and d's thought process from math to psychology.

那我们来聊聊心理画像到底是什么，以及它如何影响我们的工作。

And so let's let's talk about sort of what psychographics mean and how they impact what we do.

好的。

Okay.

对于可能不了解的人，我大学读的是波士顿大学的传播学院。

So for those who might not know, I went to college at Boston University, specifically Boston University's College of Communication.

在传播学院里，学校分成了三个方向。

And in the communication, they broke up the school into three sections.

我选的是广播与影视方向。

Now I went to the broadcast and film section.

我们那时候主要看电影和电视剧，那就是我们的课程内容。

That's where we got to watch films and TV shows, and that was our class.

还有一个新闻板块。

There also was a journalism section.

最后是广告与公关板块。

And finally, there was a p advertising and PR section.

在学院里，只要你还没确定专业，就得选修这三个板块的课程。

Now part of being in the school was you had a you know, until you declared a major and stuff, you had to take stuff from all all three parts of the school.

我得上新闻课。

I had to take classes in journalism.

我还得上广告课。

I had to take classes in advertising.

在广告课上，我第一次听说了‘心理画像’这个概念。

And in advertising, learned about a thing called a psychographic.

什么是心理画像？

What is a psychographic?

简单说，如果我想卖东西给你，就得弄清楚你为什么需要它。

Well, the idea is if I'm gonna sell you something, I need to understand why you need the thing.

不只是在实际层面，更是在心理层面。

Not just not just on a practical level, but sort of on a psychological level.

比如说，这个产品到底给你带来了什么？

Like, what exactly is this product doing for you?

你为什么想要这个产品？

Why do you want this product?

心理画像特别重要，因为你要是想把东西卖给人，就得搞清楚他们到底为什么想要它。

And psychographics prove really important because if you're trying to sell something to some if you're trying to sell something to somebody, you need to understand why exactly do they want it.

不能只说，哦，我卖的是吃的，人饿了就会买。

And on a deeper level than, oh, I'm selling food, well they get hungry sometimes.

关键是，为什么选我的食物？

It's like, why my food?

为什么是这个？

Why this?

它到底能做什么？

What what does it do?

而且很多内容深入探讨了人类真正需要的是什么。

And a lot of it really dug deep into kind of what do what do humans need?

他们真正想要的是什么？

What do they want?

所以我刚到威世智的时候，心里一直有个疑问：人们为什么喜欢玩《万智牌》？

And so one of the things that happened when I first got to Wizards is that I think in the back of my head, I was very interested in, well, why do people play magic?

设计师和开发者的职责之一，就是创造乐趣。

Like, one of the jobs of a designer and a developer is we're trying to create fun.

这听起来很简单，但其实不然。

Now that is a very fun.

那到底什么才是乐趣？

You know, what what is fun?

这事儿挺难说的。

I mean, that's tricky.

我们其实是在试图激发一种情感反应。

Like, we're trying to create an emotional response.

那我们该怎么引发情感共鸣呢？

Well, how do we create an emotional response?

得先理解背后的心理机制。

We have to understand the psychology.

我刚去的时候，那时候我们管这种玩家叫‘竞技玩家’。

So when I first got there, we understood at the time we just called it the tournament player.

我们脑子里就想着：我玩就是为了赢，要用最强的牌——后来这些人被称作‘斯派克’，但我们当时已经大致摸清了这类人的特点。

We just kinda got the mindset of I play, I wanna win, I'll play with the best cards, kind of who would later go on to call Spike, but we kinda got a general sense of that person.

这种玩家最显眼，因为去比赛现场就能看到，他们的行为和动机一目了然。

That was the most obvious player because you could go and see them at tournaments and just they were very very visible and and understandable.

所以早期，我们就把这类玩家简单地理解为‘竞技玩家’。

And so in the early days, we understood the tournament player as we called them.

挺有意思的是，‘斯派克’其实远不止比赛里的玩家，但那时候我们觉得，哦，这就是竞技玩家。

It's funny because Spike actually goes way beyond just the tournaments, but at the time, it's like, oh, there's the tournament players.

我们心里其实也隐约觉得，还有休闲玩家这类人，但当时根本没从心理学角度去想。

And I think in the back of our head, had the idea of, well, there's, you know, the casual players, but we didn't really think in terms of psychology.

所以在《风暴》扩展包期间，我设计了一张牌。

And so during Tempest, I made a card.

我记不清具体是哪张了。

I don't remember what card it was.

但当时我设计了一张牌，开会的人里，可能是迈克之类的，就说：‘我不确定这牌会不会有用。’

But I made some card and somebody in the meeting, Mike or somebody said, I don't know.

他说：‘这牌真能行吗？’

I don't know if that would ever be any good.

我就说：‘我觉得肯定有这样一类玩家。’

And I said, well, you know, I think there's a player out there.

我管他叫提米。

I'm gonna call him Timmy.

你知道吗？

And you know what?

当提米打开一包牌时，他眼睛都会瞪圆，兴奋得不得了。

When Timmy opens this pack, he his eyes are gonna bulge out, and he's gonna get really excited.

你知道吗？

And you know what?

蒂米一定会很高兴把这张牌放进他的套牌里。

Timmy will be happy to put this in his deck.

当蒂米打出这张牌的时候，他会兴奋得不得了。

And when Timmy gets to cast it, he'll be ecstatic.

当他用这张牌攻击的时候，他会更兴奋。

When he gets to attack with it, he'll be more ecstatic.

这张牌不是给比赛选手准备的，是给蒂米的。

And then this card isn't for the tournament player, this card's for Timmy.

后来，我又对约翰尼做了同样的事。

And then later on, I did the same thing for for Johnny.

我觉得还有一种玩家。

I said, you know, I think there's another player.

我管他叫约翰尼。

I'm gonna call him Johnny.

后来有一阵子，就是提米、约翰尼，还有竞技玩家这三类人。

And then the for a while, was Timmy, Johnny, and the tournament player.

最后，品牌团队说：好吧。

And then finally, the brand team said, okay.

我们得给这个人找个名字。

Look, we need a name for this guy.

我们就叫他斯派克吧。

We're gonna call him Spike.

其实，是品牌团队给他起了斯派克这个名字。

And so the brand team actually named him Spike.

接下来，我想好好说说提米、约翰尼和斯派克到底代表什么。

So let's I wanna walk through what really Timmy and Johnny Spike mean though.

明白吗？

Okay?

咱们从心理学的角度来聊聊。

So let's from a psychological standpoint.

好的。

Okay.

那我先从Spike说起。

So I'm gonna start with I'll start with Spike.

我平时总是先讲Timmy，但这次我先讲Spike。

I I normally start with Timmy, I'm gonna start with Spike.

因为某种程度上，Spike是我们最早识别出来的类型。

Because in some ways Spike is the first one we identified.

那Spike到底是什么？

So what is Spike?

嗯，关键是人们想要证明自己，我之前提到过Spike想证明自己。

Well, the idea is that people want the I talked about Spike wanting to prove himself.

这意味着，对每个人来说，这个游戏都在满足某种心理需求。

And what that means is that to each person, the game fulfills some psychological need.

我认为，对Spike这类人来说，他们的心理需求就是渴望证明自己。

And I believe for Spikes, the psychological need is that people need to be able to prove themselves.

很重要的一点是，你要说清楚：我就是这样一个人。

That it's very important to say, hey, this is who I am as a person.

我有能力做到这些。

This is what I'm capable of.

所以你通常会找一个自己特别擅长的领域来证明自己。

And so the way you tend to prove yourself is you tend to find some area where you excel.

然后告诉别人：你看，我在这方面的本事可不小。

And then you can show people, look, I excel in this area.

这其实是人们寻找自我价值的方式，毕竟谁都想觉得自己有点特别。

You know, and it's a way for people to find to find self worth because everybody kinda wants to feel like special in some way.

所以我觉得， spikes 玩游戏，其实就是为了证明自己。

And so I think the spikes look, the game is a means by which they get to prove themselves.

这意味着他们能通过游戏说：看，我至少能在这件事上做到精通。

And what that means is that they can say, look, I'm able to look at this and in some way find mastery in it.

有意思的是，spikes 并不一定非得赢才行。

Now the funny thing is spikes don't have to necessarily just win.

这是最常见的那种专长。

That's the most common kind of spike.

但我们说的这种专长心态是，我把游戏当作衡量自己能力的标尺。

But the mindset that we're talking about for Spike is I use the game as a benchmark to demonstrate what I am capable of.

你也可以在收藏方面成为专长者。

Now, you could be a spike in collecting.

你也可以在讲故事方面成为专长者。

You could be a spike in story.

你可以在任何你感兴趣的领域成为专长者。

You could be a spike in, you know, whatever aspect you want.

关键是你要在那个领域做到顶尖，让人看到：瞧，我能做到这种地步。

The key is you need to dominate in that area and show, look what I can do.

看看我是怎么在这一行里出类拔萃的。

Look how look how I'm able to excel in this area.

对大多数专长者来说，这指的是对游戏的深刻理解。

Now for most spikes that is understanding the game.

不过话说回来，确实有些人擅长构建牌组。

Now even then by the way, there are spikes who excel at building decks.

也有些人专精于优化牌组，让它们变得更好。

There are spikes spikes that excel at at making decks better.

还有些人特别擅长理解meta对局环境。

There are spikes that excel at understanding the meta game.

也有人在实际对战技巧上表现突出，你知道的。

There are spikes that excel at at gameplay, you know.

每个高手都会找到一个对他们来说特别重要的领域。

And that each spike finds some area that is important to them, you know.

可能有多方面的能力，但深入来看，玩家总会说：这个地方，我要证明自己能做到顶尖。

And that probably there might be multiple areas, but when you cut to the bone, there's something the player says, this is where I'm going to try to prove my I can excel.

我知道很多玩家会在选牌环节下功夫，立志成为最顶尖的选牌手。

You know, I know a lot of players do that with drafting, that I'm gonna be the best drafter possible.

也有人把精力全放在牌组构建上。

You know, there's people who do that with deck building.

有些人则擅长预测 meta 趋势。

There's people that do it with metagame calling.

这需要了解很多东西，比如游戏的历史背景。

Know, that it's a lot, you know, or just understanding the history of the game.

不同类型的玩家会追求不同的优势方向。

I mean, different spikes try to excel in different ways.

但关键在于，他们都有办法展现自己的实力。

But the important thing is that there's a means by which they can excel.

那这对我们设计师来说意味着什么？

So what does that mean for us the designers?

这意味着，斯派克最欣赏那种‘靠技术能让牌变强’的牌。

Well, what it means is that the Spike loves best a card that says, hey, with skill this card becomes better.

比如，那些需要消耗资源的牌通常很受斯派克青睐。

You know, so cards that use resources for example tend to be very spike friendly.

我可以拿资源 Y 换资源 Z。

You know, I can trade resource y for resource z.

那什么时候我该这么做呢？

Well, when do I wanna do that?

玩家也喜欢有多种选择的牌。

Spikes also like modal cards.

那些能让你做选择的牌，因为你对选择理解得越深，玩得就越出色。

The cards that give you choices because the better you understand the choices, the better you can play.

比如《事实或虚构》这种牌，需要做决策，也容易出错，高手就能做出更好的选择。

Spikes tend to like stuff where like fact or fiction where there's decision making to be made and there's errors that can be made so the better player will better make the decision.

玩家通常也喜欢卡牌之间的配合。

You know, spikes also tend to like synergy.

他们喜欢那种一旦理解了如何组合，就能产生更强效果的机制。

They tend to like things in which if you understand how to combine things, there's more power that comes from that.

但要理解玩家，关键在于：我们每个人作为个体，都希望证明自己在这世上是有价值的。

But the key to spikes and understanding spikes is, look, each one of us as an individual, as a person has a need to to prove that we we're doing something here on the earth.

我们都想找到自己的作用。

We have some function.

我们在某种程度上是有意义的。

We matter in some way.

这正是斯派克们在做的事。

And that is what the Spikes are doing.

他们试图找到一种方式，去展示‘看，我能做到这个’。

That they're finding some way to tap into, hey, look what I can do.

不同的斯派克会以不同的方式实现这一点。

And understand that different Spikes will do that in different ways.

作为设计师，设计给斯派克时，就得理解这一点，并提供丰富的空间来支持它。

And part of being a designer and designing for Spike is understanding that and giving a lot of resources for that.

所以有个问题，新世界秩序怎么样？

So one of the questions is, how about New World Order?

新世界秩序是不是限制得太少了？

Is New World Order underbinding that?

是的。

Yeah.

不是限制得太少，而是这会不会妨碍我们为Spikes提供真正需要的东西？

Not underbinding, but is that stopping us from serving what we need to do for the Spikes?

在我看来答案是否定的，因为我们做的很多事，其实就是让东西更清晰、更容易懂。

And the answer is no in my mind because a lot of what we're doing is making things plainer and simple to understand.

我们并不是想削弱游戏的策略性。

We're not trying to undercut the strategy of the game.

我们也不是想破坏游戏中的协同机制。

We're not trying to undercut the synergy of the game.

我们更不是想妨碍大家更好地掌握和使用这些工具。

We're not trying to undercut, you know, just understanding how to use the tools better.

我们真正想做的是让一切更简洁，而我们不希望看到的那种Spikes是那种人——他们自以为看懂了规则，就钻空子玩花活，用你想不到的方式耍手段，以此证明自己有多厉害。

What we're trying to do is make it cleaner and that what we don't wanna have happen, the kind of spike that we're not happy with, is the one that says, I understand the rules better and I'm gonna abuse them in ways that you don't understand and that's how I will prove my dominance.

就是那种钻规则漏洞、玩系统漏洞的行为。

Kind of rules lawyering or or or system exploiting.

这类Spikes我们确实要纠正，因为我们希望游戏的核心是玩得开心，而不是玩弄规则，每个人都该真正理解游戏。

I mean, those kind of spikes, yes, we're going after because we want the game to be about playing and we want everybody to understand the game.

我们希望那些善于钻研的玩家，能更深入地理解游戏的用法。

We want the Spikes who try to, maybe they understand how to use the game better.

他们能更透彻地掌握策略。

They understand the strategy better.

要精通魔法牌有很多途径。

There's plenty of ways to get really good at magic.

魔法牌里有大量决策空间。

Magic has tons of decisions.

我们并不是在剥夺你证明自己的机会。

So it's not like we're taking away the ability to prove yourself.

我们没有。

We're not.

魔法牌本来就是一款复杂而深奥的游戏。

I mean, Magic is a complicated, complex game.

我们只是想让它的核心机制更容易理解，但绝不会让策略变得简单，因为它本来就不该简单。

And, I mean, we are trying to make it easier to grasp the understanding of it, but we're in no way trying to make the strategy any easier because it's not going to be.

你明白吧？

You know?

这是一款有上千张卡牌，你却只选60张的游戏。

Here's a game in which you have thousands of cards and you pick 60.

这是一款很复杂的游戏。

That's a complex game.

每局游戏中的决策都极其复杂。

And the decision making in every game is very complex.

每局你都要做大量决定。

You make a lot of decisions every game.

这一点是不会被削弱的。

And so that is not something that is gonna be bleeding.

好的。

Okay.

咱们聊聊蒂米吧。

Let's get to Timmy.

其实不是。

Actually, no.

不是。

No.

我们来说说Johnny。

Let's get to Johnny.

好的。

Okay.

那我们先把Timmy留到后面吧。

Well, let's let's save Timmy for the end.

Johnny呢，人类另一个重要的方面是，人们通过展示自己的能力来塑造身份。

So Johnny, another important part of just humanity is that one of the other ways people help create identity is by showing what they can do.

一种建立身份的方式是通过证明自己，展现你在某方面的优势。

One way to get an identity is by proving something, by showing dominance in something.

但另一种方式是通过创造力，通过艺术性地生产或创造某些东西。

But another way is by being creative, is by having artistic element of of sort of producing or creating something.

你懂的吧。

You know?

每个人在某种程度上都需要创作艺术。

All humans need to make art on some level.

每个人都需要参与某种创造过程，因为那种‘你瞧我做的’感觉很重要。

All humans need to do some creative process because there's something about look what I did.

你懂的吧。

You know?

说来有趣，心理学里有一件事你得明白：看看小孩子。

It's funny because one of the things you understand about psychology is look at little kids.

小孩子是还没被教育和文明过滤过的人类。

Little kids are human beings without the filtering that that education and civilization comes on them.

你懂的吧。

You know?

孩子们特别想给你看他们的画。

That kids have this need to show you their picture.

你看我做的这个。

Look what I did.

你懂的。

You know?

就像孩子总想炫耀自己赢了，展示自己能做到什么，证明自己的能力一样。

Just like kids have a need to say, they won, show what they've done, that they wanna show their dominance in something, or they wanna show what they were capable of doing.

就像小孩子非得给你看他们的画，那些蜡笔涂鸦，人类也一样需要这么做。

And just like a little kid has to show you their painting, know, their their little crayon drawing, humans need to do that.

作为一个人，你总得让人看看，嘿，我能做成这样。

That, you know, you as a human need to sort of say, hey, look what I can do.

看我怎么表达自己。

Look how I can express myself.

而各种艺术形式，正是游戏用来表达自我的方式。

And genres are the one in which the game is a mean of expressing themselves.

那他们是怎么做到的呢？

Well, how do they do that?

有好多不同的方式。

There's a bunch of different ways.

最主要的一种就是构筑牌组，因为说到魔法牌这个游戏，我经常提到一点：大多数游戏里，游戏本身是固定的，你只是玩它。

The biggest way is deck building because deck building one of the things I talk about in the game in general of Magic is that in most games, the game exists and you just play with the game.

游戏就是游戏本身。

The game is what the game is.

比如大富翁，永远都是大富翁。

You know, monopoly is monopoly.

但魔法牌不一样，你一进来就能自己塑造这个游戏。

But magic, you come into it and you get to shape the game.

你就是个游戏设计师，我每次玩的时候，都能亲手打造我想体验的那种对局。

You are a game designer and that when I play, I get to craft the kind of game I want to play.

当别人跟我对战时，他们能看到我做的东西，看到我精心设计的牌组。

And when other people play against me, they see what I've done, what I've crafted.

你知道的。

You know?

而魔法牌社交体验中很重要的一部分，就是去看别人构筑的牌组。

And a big part of the social element of Magic is seeing the other person's deck.

当你看到让人眼前一亮的牌组，往往会说：哇，这真酷。

And when you see something you're impressed by, you tend to say, wow, that's really neat.

我特别喜欢这个设计。

I really like that.

你也会主动跟别人说，你对他们的牌组印象深刻。

And you tend to express to other people that you're impressed by their deck.

这正是‘强尼型’玩家最在意的——自我表达。

And that is a big part of what Johnny's want is that self expression.

不过要注意，自我表达的方式不止这一种。

Now be aware, there's other means of self expression.

比如你用的标记物，或者你展示牌组的方式，其实有很多途径可以展现创意。

You know, the tokens you use or, you know, how you present yourself or your deck or your I mean, there's many ways to show creativity.

但我认为，牌组构筑是最直接的一种。

I think deck building is the most obvious.

所以我们一谈到约翰尼，就会不自觉地深入进去。

So when we talk about Johnny, we tend to get in there.

但总的来说，约翰尼们想要的，是展示自己能做些什么。

But in general, what Johnny's want is the idea of showing what they can do.

那你怎么为约翰尼们做设计呢？

So how do you design for Johnny's?

为约翰尼们设计的关键，在于开放性。

Well, the key to designing for Johnny's is open endedness.

很多东西都能灵活组合、互相配合。

A lot of modularity of things clicking together.

有意思的是，我自己其实就是一个典型的约翰尼，只是别人不知道，我可是个铁杆约翰尼。

And one of the things that's funny is I mean, I'm a Johnny and people don't know that, I I'm a hardcore Johnny.

所以我设计的时候，总是带着很强烈的约翰尼思维，特别喜欢开放式的玩法。

So I tend to love to design with a very Johnny sensibility that I love open ended things.

我特别享受让卡牌之间产生奇妙的联动。

I love making cards work.

我不太确定你会怎么用它，但我知道它能做很多事。

I'm not quite sure what you'll do with this, but I know it can do a lot.

我特别喜欢那种叫‘瑞士军刀卡’的东西，哇，一张卡居然能干这么多不同的事。

I love what I call Swiss Army cards where, wow, this card can do all sorts of different things.

当你做出一张卡，别人看完说‘这玩意儿我该怎么用？’——那感觉特别有意思。

And to me, it's a lot of fun when you make a card and people go, oh, what am I gonna do with this?

而那些最典型的Johnny卡，往往就像一个挑战。

And a lot of the the Johnny cards that are the most Johnny are kind of like, here's a challenge.

看看你能拿它做出什么来。

See what you can do with this.

这两种就是最典型的Johnny卡。

And those are the two biggest kind of Johnny cards.

一种是多功能刀卡，功能多到你得自己琢磨怎么用。

One is the utility knife cards where it does a lot of different things and you gotta figure out what to do with it.

另一种是挑战型卡，给你个怪东西。

And the other is the kind of the challenge card of here's a weird thing.

你能用这个做一副牌吗？

Can you make can you make a deck with this?

这个能用来做什么？

What can you do with this?

说到底，Johnny牌的核心就是想用最原始、最直觉的方式，把那种手绘蜡笔的感觉直接呈现出来。

And I I think in the heart of heart, Johnny's are very much about wanting to to demonstrate to show you the crayon drawn on a a gut level.

就像我说的，所有这些——Spike、Jonathan、Timmy，都源于人性。

And, you know, like I said, all these with Spike, the Jonathan and Timmy's, all of this is human nature.

我所说的每一点，其实每个人都具备。

Everything I'm talking about is in every human.

每个人都需要证明自己的主导地位。

Every human has a need to prove dominance.

每个人都需要表达自我。

Every human has a need to express themselves.

每个人都渴望那种直击感官的刺激。

Every human needs visceral thrills.

我马上说到。

I'll get to in a second.

但这些都是人类的需求。

But all of those are things humans need.

我讲的都是，魔术能为你带来什么？

All I'm talking about is what does magic bring for you?

你在魔术中寻找的是哪种基本需求？

Which basic need are you looking for in magic?

注意，有些人会寻找不止一种。

And note, some people look for more than one.

所以才会有混合型的，比如蒂米和乔尼的结合，或者乔尼和斯派克的组合。

That's why there's hybrid, you know, there's Timmy Johnny's and Johnny Spikes, you know.

这并不一定是纯粹的。

That is not like it's necessarily pure.

我认为我提到的这三种需求，每个人身上都多多少少存在。

And I would argue that all three of these things I'm talking about, all people have some level.

其实就是，你在游戏里最看重的是什么？

It's just where what do you most look for in the game?

明白了。

Okay.

那我们来说说蒂米这类玩家。

So we get to Timmy's.

人类还有一种需求，就是渴望去体验一些事情。

Well, another part of the human experience is this need to experience something.

你活在这世上，难免会想：我为什么在这儿？

That you're on this earth and you're like, why am I here?

人总会思考一个大问题：我到底在为什么而活？

You know, a big sort of philosophical question is, what am I doing?

我的人生目标是什么？

What is my purpose?

很快人们就会发现，体验本身就能带来很多意义。

And one of the things that humans come to realize very quickly on is that there's a lot of purpose in experience.

活着、做点什么，本身就有很大的意义。

There's a lot of purpose in in being, in doing something.

人们为什么要去跳桥玩蹦极，或者坐飞机，或者去激流泛舟？就是因为那种强烈的刺激感让人上瘾，特别爽。

You know, why do people jump off bridges with bungee cords or jump on a plane or do all sorts, you know, white water raft or because because there is something about having a visceral thrill that feels good.

我们的身体会分泌一些化学物质，当你做某些事的时候，就会产生愉悦感，比如肾上腺素，那种瞬间飙升的感觉。

You know, for example, our body has chemicals that, you know, when you do certain things create pleasure for you, you know, and that one of them is adrenaline, that there is a rush of adrenaline, you know.

蒂米的体验里，有一部分就是想感受这些感觉、这些化学反应、这些情绪。

And that that part of the Timmy experience is saying, I want to experience these these experiences, these chemicals, these emotions, you know.

我想去体验各种各样的感觉。

I want to experience things, you know.

体验的方式其实有很多。

And there are a lot of different ways to experience stuff.

我们知道，大家往往会远离那些巨型的玩意儿。

I know we tend to get off of the giant creatures.

每个心理类型都有它典型的标签。

Like, I think each each psychographic has its stereotype.

对吧？

Right?

而且人们觉得玩家里那种喜欢追求力量的，就是典型的提米型。

And that people want us I know the power gamer is sort of the Timmy stereotype.

大家总以为提米就是喜欢大怪兽，只想着用大怪兽去攻击。

And people wanna think of Timmy as just being, alright, I just like big things and I attack with big things.

确实有一部分提米玩家就是这样。

And that is what some Timmy's like that.

你知道吧？

You know?

毕竟，施放一个巨型生物或者用它攻击，又或者打出一张造成巨额伤害的法术，那种兴奋感是真实存在的。

I mean, there is some real excitement of just casting a giant creature or attacking with it or playing a spell that does major damage.

这种直接的刺激感确实很过瘾。

There is a real visceral thrill that comes with that.

但同样让人兴奋的，还有和朋友待在一起、建立联系，聊点策略，或者只是全身心投入当下的体验。

But there are also the visceral thrill with just hanging with your friends and just bonding with them and and, you know, you know, doing politics or, you know, just having an experience in which you're really in the moment.

你进入一种宁静的状态。

You're in the zen.

你知道，你进入心流了。

You know, you're in the flow.

这对很多其他玩家来说非常重要。

And that that is very important for a lot of other players.

而这类提米玩家呢，他们就想好好活着。

And then this is the Timmy's where they're like, I wanna live.

他们想体验各种事情。

I wanna experience things.

他们就想感受点什么，你知道的。

I wanna I wanna, you know, I wanna feel something, you know.

这才是真正的提米玩家。

And that that's what the Timmy's is.

你怎么为提米玩家设计卡牌？

How do you make cards for Timmy's?

那就弄清楚他们喜欢什么样的东西。

Well, just figure out the kind of stuff they like.

比如，什么能带来强烈的刺激感？

Like, what what creates visceral thrills?

一部分是制造巨大的东西。

Part of it is creating giant things.

另一部分是做一些酷炫的事。

Part of it is doing cool things.

还有就是那些奇特的配合，对吧？

Part of it is, right, weird synergies.

这种配合一出现就特别有意思。

It's just fun when they happen.

还有一部分是随机性。

Part of it is randomness.

不知道接下来会发生什么，这种未知本身就能带来很大的乐趣。

You know, it's not knowing what's gonna happen and that, you know, there is great joy in just experiencing something and not knowing where it's gonna go.

你知道吧。

You know?

我意思是，总有一天我会做个关于随机性的播客。

I talk I mean, one of these days I'll do a podcast on randomness.

我写过一篇相关的文章。

I did an article on it.

但你知道，我们之所以用抛硬币，是因为有些人就说：我想抽张牌。

But, you know, one of reasons we have coin flipping is there are people that are like, I I wanna play a card.

我不知道接下来会发生什么。

I don't know what's gonna happen.

我们做了很多疯狂的、尤其是稀有的红色卡牌，一出来就说：好，混乱模式启动。

You know, we make a lot of wacky especially rare red cards that like, okay, chaos time.

接下来会发生什么？

What's gonna happen?

有些玩家就特别喜欢这个，因为太有趣了。

You know, and there's players that really get off on that because it's fun.

有些人就是不想知道游戏接下来会怎么发展。

They you know, there's people who don't wanna know where the game's gonna go.

你知道的。

You know?

也有人清清楚楚知道游戏会怎么走，他们就想搞出点疯狂的名堂来。

And there's other people who know completely where the game's going, you know, they wanna make this crazy thing happen.

当他们体验到这种强烈的刺激时，真的特别过瘾。

And it's just exciting and fun when they have this visceral thrill.

明白了。

Okay.

对了，各位，我每天上班路上，头一件事就是加油。

By the way, guys, of all time first on my ride to work, drive to work.

我得去加个油。

I need to get gas.

所以我决定，这个播客时长就跟我上班路上的时间一样长。

So one of the things that I've decided about this podcast is this podcast just takes as long as it takes me to get to work.

所以如果路上堵车、耽误了，或者得去加油，那就意味着我能多说一会儿，你们也就有更多内容可听。

So if I have traffic, if I have a delay, if I have to get gas, that just means I get to talk more So you guys get more content.

所以耽误的时间，等于给你们多攒了内容。

So delays equal more content for you.

我先去加个油，然后咱们再继续聊蒂米、约翰尼和斯派克的事。

So let me just set up this gas going, and then we can talk more about Timmy, Johnny, and Spike.

但我得让你们知道，很多人以为这一切都是提前规划好的。

But I want you to know that a lot of people seem to think whether how planned this is.

其实根本不是。

It is not.

我每天都是真的临时决定，就比如现在。

I literally each day, like, okay.

通常我周一做这个节目，提前知道大概要聊什么，但一坐进车里，我就想，好吧。

Usually, I do this on Monday, and, I I know ahead of time what my, topic is going to be, but I kinda get here in the car and I'm like, okay.

然后我就直接开讲。

And I just start talking.

我得想想你们是想要更多条理，还是现在这样就行。

I gotta figure out whether you guys want more more structure or not.

目前我都是随性发挥的。

Right now, I've been kinda winging it.

我当然很想知道你们的反馈。

I'm curious to get feedback, obviously.

我提前录了很多期内容。

I'm working way ahead.

所以现在我做这档播客的时候，你们连我的第一期都还没听过呢。

So as I do this podcast, you guys haven't even heard my first podcast yet.

因为我启动这档播客花了不少时间，才积了这么多 ahead。

That's how far ahead things have been because it's been taking a while to get my podcast started.

但一旦上线，我就能收到大量反馈，我特别期待听到你们的想法。

But once it does, I will get a lot of feedback, and I'm very eager to hear what you guys have to say.

我做这档播客，一部分目的就是想给你们带来点不一样的东西，一种你们之前没体验过的播客感受。

So, part of me doing this podcast is to try to give something to all of you and give you an experience of a of a podcast that's something you don't have before.

所以，不管怎样，我之前提到过斯派克、约翰尼和提米，他们三个人本质上都在说：作为设计师，我们就是要让游戏变得有趣。

So, anyway, I've talked about, Spike and Johnny and Timmy that each one at the core is trying to say, hey, we as designers are trying to make the game fun.

怎么才能让游戏变得有趣呢？

How do you make the game fun?

关键是要满足人类最基本的情感需求。

Well, we have to answer a basic human emotional need.

只要做到了这一点，乐趣自然就来了。

If we do that, that's where fun comes from.

乐趣来自于赢得优势的成就感，来自于表达自我，来自于那种直击内心的刺激感。

Fun comes from, like of proving the dominance, of expressing yourself, of finding that visceral thrill.

而这，正是提米、约翰尼和斯派克所代表的核心。

And that that is what Timmy, Johnny, and Spike are about.

接下来我们聊聊沃索斯和梅尔文。

So let's talk about Vorthos and Melvin.

很多人喜欢把他们当成心理画像，但其实并不是。

Because a lot of people like to think of them as psychographic profiles, but they're not.

我觉得他们确实如此，那为什么不算呢？

I think they they so why aren't they?

因为他们讨论的不是情感层面，你没有回应任何情感需求，而是在谈审美——当我玩游戏时，我被哪些方面吸引？

Because what they're talking about is not the emotional, you're not answering an emotional anything, it's more talking about an aesthetic, which is when I play, what aspects of the game do I connect to?

所以，Vorthos 的观点是，你知道我最喜欢游戏的哪一部分吗？

And so the idea of the and the reason it this is a spectrum is that the Vorthos is saying, look, you know what I enjoy about the game?

我喜欢游戏中的情感体验。

I enjoy the emotional aspect of the game.

也就是说，我希望从情感上感受游戏。

Meaning that I want I want to experience the game emotionally.

当我看到一张牌，所有元素完美契合时，我就感到满足。

I that I when I see a card and it sort of all fits together, that's where I get my satisfaction.

我的审美就在这里。

That's where my aesthetic lies.

我特别喜欢游戏的整体氛围。

I love the overall feel of the game.