本集简介
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你有什么？
What do you have?
我没有标记我们。
I'm not tagging us in.
我本希望我
I was hoping I
可以只是
could just
做了这件事，你却没注意到。
do this and you wouldn't notice.
你以为我没注意到？
You thought I wouldn't notice?
问题是，我真的不知道代谢物是什么。
The problem is I don't I literally don't know what metabolite is.
是一种奶昔吗？
Is it a shake?
不。
No.
这是一种药丸。
It's a it's a pill.
这是一种膳食补充剂。
It's a diet supplement.
啊，好的。
Ah, okay.
是谁？
Who is it?
这个播客。
The podcast.
我无法向我们的听众表达我为此思考了整整多少周。
I can't express to our listeners how many weeks of thinking about that.
我觉得我熬过了一个多月。
I I feel like I through more than a month.
我随时都可以去搜索一下。
I could have googled at any moment.
什么，好吧。
What okay.
告诉我这是否有问题。
Tell me if this is problematic.
欢迎来到维持阶段，这个播客将帮助你减掉十磅，但你会连续几天磨牙。
Welcome to maintenance phase, the podcast that will help you lose 10 pounds, but you will be grinding your teeth for days.
老实说，是的。
Honestly, yes.
这就是本集的转折点吗？我是不是剧透了？
Is that the twist of the episode that I spoil it?
运气真好。
Lucked out.
因为那是甲基苯丙胺。
Because it's methamphetamine.
我是奥布里·戈登。
I'm Aubrey Gordon.
我是迈克尔·霍布斯。
I'm Michael Hobbs.
如果你想支持这个节目，可以访问 patreon.com/maintenanceface。
If you'd like to support the show, you can do that at patreon.com/maintenanceface.
哦，那个小重复机器又回来了。
Oh, the tiny repeating machine is back.
或者你可以在 Apple 播客上订阅。
Or you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts.
内容是一样的。
It's the same audio content.
是的。
Yeah.
他来了。
There he is.
迈克尔。
Michael.
奥布里。
Aubrey.
今天，我们要聊聊上世纪九十年代到两千年初最流行的一种减肥药。
Today, we are talking about one of the most popular diet pills of the sort of y two k era nineties into y two k.
好的。
Okay.
它的名字叫Metabolife 3'56。
The name of it is metabolife three '56.
等等。
Wait.
他们对一年的天数搞错了吗？
Are they wrong about the number of days in the year?
没有。
No.
每次我看到那个该死的名字，Mike，我都是这么想的。
I that is exactly the thought that I had every time I saw the fucking name, Mike.
我当时就想，你是说三月吗？
I was like, do you mean March?
你是说每一天吗？
Do you mean every day?
你是说每天都要用Metabolife吗？
Do you mean Metabolife every day?
是因为你有九天可以放纵吗？
Is that because you get nine cheat days?
所以如果你不能坚持356天？
So if you can't do it three fifty six days?
不是，是因为
No, it's
一个月。
a month.
每个月一次，就可以放纵一下。
Once a month, can just go nuts.
356是实验室在配方时给它分配的编号。
356 was the number that the lab assigned it when they were formulating it.
这是创始人约翰·三五六的名字。
It's the name of the founder, John three fifty six.
我们的故事始于90年代中期。
We are beginning our story in the mid 90s.
到那时，80年代和90年代的健身热潮已经发展成一个庞大的产业。
By this point, the 80s and 90s sort of fitness craze has grown into a massive industry.
这是《钢臀》《停止疯狂》《随着老歌流汗》的时代。
This is the era of buns of steel of stop the insanity of sweating to the oldies.
这也是多层次营销（MLM）流行度上升的时期。
This is also a time when the popularity of MLMs are on the rise.
是的。
Oh, yeah.
此时，蓬勃发展的健康行业正在推动补充剂和维生素的广泛使用。
At this point, the burgeoning wellness industry is championing supplements and vitamins become much more widely used.
它们从原本只有吃粗粮、嬉皮士才会做的事，逐渐变成了一种主流行为。
They sort of move from like a thing that crunchy granola hippies do to a much more mainstream thing.
正是在这个时候，出现了小飞象维生素这类产品。
This is when we get Flintstones vitamins and that kind of thing.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Oh, yeah.
与此同时，人们对体重的焦虑也在上升，主要以个人化和美容化的方式体现。
And anxieties about weight are on the rise mostly in an individual way at this point and in sort of a cosmetic way.
对。
Yeah.
所以，迈克尔，我想和你一起想象一下这个场景。
So, Michael, I'd like you to imagine this with me.
那是1994年。
It's 1994.
你正在看TGIF节目。
You're watching TGIF.
在SlimFast的广告之间，嗯。
And between an ad for SlimFast Mhmm.
还有可能像Bop It这样的玩具？那些致命的发箍，害死了大约三千个孩子？
And maybe, like, a Bop It Are those snap bracelets that killed, like, 3,000 children?
是的。
Yeah.
看这个广告。
See this ad.
其中
With
随着药物滥用问题加剧，联邦政府成立了特别小组，以应对他们认为可能更严重的问题。
drug abuse spiraling, the federal government has created special units to combat what they believe could be a more serious problem.
就像士兵们在整装待发，准备他们的装备。
It's like soldiers, like, tooling up, like, getting their gear together.
是的。
Yeah.
看起来像是《热》电影里的场景。
Looks like a scene from heat.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
行动才是关键。
The action is the juice.
好的。
Okay.
他们正在闯入一栋房子。
They're breaking breaking into a house.
他们就像特警一样突入这栋巨大的麦当劳式豪宅。
They're, like, SWAT teaming into this, like, giant McMansion.
他们正在解除安保系统。
They're disarming the security system.
有一些夜视画面。
There's some night vision footage.
一切都非常严肃。
It's all very serious.
非常像奥萨马·本·拉登。
Very Osama Bin Laden.
好了。
There we go.
冻结药物执法。
Freeze drug enforcement.
哇哦。
Woah.
天哪。
Oh, god.
嘿。
Hey.
这只不过是维生素。
It's only vitamins.
什么鬼？
What the hell?
这只不过是维生素。
It's only it's only vitamins.
美国食品药品监督管理局正在对天然维生素使用者进行突袭，但维生素并不是药物。
The FDA is conducting raids against natural vitamin users, but vitamins are not drugs.
这种骚扰必须停止。
This harassment must stop.
维生素C，你知道的，就像橙子里的那些。
Vitamin c, you know, like in oranges.
保护你使用维生素的权利。
Protect your right to use vitamins.
立即致电国会。
Call congress now.
什么？
What?
好吧。
Okay.
这真是个奇怪的广告。
This is a bizarre ad.
所以他们闯进了别人家里。
So they're breaking into a house.
特警队冲进去，然后出现了梅尔·吉布森。
The SWAT team going in, and then it's Mel Gibson.
惊吓桥段。
Jump scare.
小鬼惊喜。
Gremlin surprise.
是梅尔·吉布森。
It's Mel Gibson.
他在厨房里，穿着浴袍，大概是往水里放维生素什么的，或者吃维生素，然后他们就逮捕了他。
In the kitchen, in a bathrobe, like, I guess, putting vitamins in his water or something or, like, taking a vitamin, and they, like they're arresting him.
把维生素放进他的什么里？
Putting vitamins in his what?
或者，随便吧。
Or, like, whatever.
我不清楚这个。
I don't know it.
我不
I don't
知道维生素是怎么起作用的吗？
know how vitamins work?
现在太早了，受不了这个。
It's too early for this.
我的脑子还没醒过来。
My brain is not awake yet.
听众，现在是上午10点20分。
Listener, it's 10:20AM.
好吧。
Alright.
好吧。
Alright.
好吧。
Alright.
好的。
Alright.
好的。
Alright.
好的。
Alright.
别揭我的面具。
Don't unmask me.
但问题是，他们实际上是在对你撒谎，制造出一个我假设根本不存在的情境。
But it's like, they're basically lying to you here and creating a scenario that I assume does not actually exist.
不。
No.
据我所知，没有任何人因为拥有维生素C而被闯入家中。
Not one single solitary case that I'm aware of of anyone's house getting broken into for possession of vitamin c.
是的。
Yeah.
维生素C，这东西在市场上已经存在了几十年之久。
Vitamin fucking c, which has been on the market for, like, many decades at this point.
这是一个由保健品行业资助的广告，旨在制造一种假象，声称保健品受到过度监管，政府即将采取某种极其危险的过度干预。
This is an ad that is bankrolled by the supplement industry designed to astroturf the idea that supplements are overregulated and that the government is on the precipice of some really perilous overreach.
是的，这里有一些背景故事。
Yeah, there's a little bit of backstory here.
在80年代和90年代初，国会曾考虑过多项法案，旨在加强对保健品制造商的监管和要求。
In the 80s and early 90s, Congress had considered a number of bills that would have increased FDA oversight and requirements of supplement manufacturers.
其中一项法案将统一保健品的标签标准，并要求更详细地披露成分信息。
One of them would have standardized labeling for supplements and would have required ingredient disclosures at like a more detailed level.
哦，暴政。
Oh, tyranny.
这才是真正的政府暴政。
That's actual government tyranny.
没人谈论过突袭。
No one was talking about raids.
对。
Right.
没人谈论没收补充剂。
No one was talking about confiscating supplements.
没人谈论因持有补充剂而被指控。
No one was talking about charges for possession of supplements.
他们谈论的是标明成分的标签。
They were talking about a label that tells you what's in it.
这太可笑了。
It's so funny.
比如，RFK Jr. 的整个立场就是反抗。
Like, RFK junior's whole fucking thing is, like, pushing back.
他说是大药企的阴谋什么的，但补充剂制造商根本就是骗子，老兄。
It's, like, the conspiracy of big pharma and stuff, but it's, the supplement makers are such fucking scammers, dude.
没错。
Yep.
他们甚至没有
They don't even have
在他们的维生素里放该死的维生素。
to have fucking vitamins in their vitamins.
他们可以随便告诉你任何东西。
They can just tell you anything.
这种行业内的协调游说努力，首次真正取得成果是在《膳食补充剂健康与教育法案》通过之时。
Those sort of coordinated lobbying efforts in the industry first really bore fruit with the passage of the dietary supplement health and education act.
等等。
Wait.
我一直说成‘deshay’了。
I've been saying deshay.
就像他们在《新爪药物赛跑》里总说的那样，deshay away。
Deshay away, as they always say on New Paws Drug Race.
他们在谈论药物关系。
They're talking about drug relations.
D。
The D.
谢亚将膳食补充剂重新分类为食品，嗯。
Shea recategorized dietary supplements as food Mhmm.
而不是药物。
Instead of drugs.
好的。
Okay.
因此，该法案主要起草目的是定义膳食补充剂，并将它们豁免于FDA的药物审批流程，甚至豁免于任何FDA审批流程。
So it was drafted primarily to do one thing to define dietary supplements and exempt them, not only from the FDA's drug approval process, but from an FDA approval process at all.
因此，补充剂制造商在将成分投放市场前无需证明其安全性。
So supplement makers do not have to prove that an ingredient is safe before taking it to market.
太棒了。
Love this.
这意味着，只有当某种补充剂成分在按说明使用时构成“重大且不合理的风险”时，FDA才能对其进行限制。
And it meant that the FDA could only restrict a supplement ingredient if it posed a, quote, significant and unreasonable risk if used as instructed.
所以这项法律的整个目的就是让FDA权力更小
So the whole point of the law is like give the FDA less power
在这上面。
over this.
这实际上几乎是对补充剂行业的完全去监管。
It is functionally like almost complete deregulation of the supplement industry.
是的。
Yeah.
你不知道他们里面放的东西是不是他们声称放的东西。
You don't know that what they put in there is what they said they put in there.
是的。
Yeah.
你也不知道它有没有被铅之类的东西污染。
You don't know that it's not contaminated with something like lead.
是的。
Yeah.
你不知道它的有效成分是否如宣传的那样强或弱。
You don't know that it is as potent or as non potent as they say it is.
你只是在拿自己的长期健康信任格温妮丝。
You're just trusting Gwyneth with, like, your your long term health.
而格温妮丝，说实话，已经是最好的情况了。
And Gwyneth is, like, the best case scenario, honestly.
这项法律是克林顿总统于1994年10月签署生效的。
It was signed into law by President Clinton in October 1994.
哇哦。
Woah.
D。
D.
它由爱荷华州的民主党人汤姆·哈金和犹他州的共和党人奥林·哈奇共同发起，后者是臭名昭著的奥林·哈奇，也是任职时间最长的参议员之一。
Shea was cosponsored by Tom Harkin, a democrat from Iowa, and Orrin Hatch, notorious trash can Orrin Hatch, republican from Utah, one of the longest serving
垃圾桶。
Trash cans.
国会里的垃圾箱。
Trash cans in Congress.
是的。
Mhmm.
无论是哈金还是哈奇，这位民主党人和这位共和党人，他们最大的竞选捐助者之一，都是之前被列为维护阶段对象、主打减肥的多层次营销公司——Herbalife。
For both Harkin and Hatch, both the Democrat and the Republican, one of their largest campaign contributors for both of them was previous maintenance phase subject and weight loss super MLM Herbalife.
哦，真的吗？
Oh, really?
数十万、数十万美元。
Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
当时提出的理由是什么？
What was the like stated argument for this?
声称保健品制造商应该能够不受政府干预地自由行事。
That supplement makers should be able to like do what they need unencumbered by government incursions.
这纯粹就是空洞的反监管。
It's just like hollow anti regulation.
是的，他们应该有自由去创新，这简直就是无差别放松监管的垃圾。
Yeah, they should be free to innovate and it's like general God deregulation shit.
这就像1994年。
And it's like '19 '94.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们当时正处在里根和老布什之后的热潮中。
So we're like, coming in hot off of Reagan and H.
布什。
Bush.
但想想看，梅尔·吉布森半夜因为家里有维生素补充剂而被突袭的次数现在少了多少。
But think about think about how much less often Mel Gibson is getting raided in his home for having a vitamin supplement in the middle of the night.
我还想说说那个该死的梅尔·吉布森广告的另一点，那就是这也说明了他们手上有多少该死的钱。
This is the other thing that I do wanna say about the fucking Mel Gibson ad is, like, that is also indicative of how much fucking money they had.
梅尔·吉布森是
Mel Gibson was
1994年 arguably 世界上最大的电影明星。
arguably the biggest movie star in the world in 1994.
是的。
Yeah.
他们正在聘请他拍电视广告。
And they are hiring him for a TV ad.
对。
Yeah.
光是这一点，你就应该打电话给国会，说：不管他们想要什么，都别给他们。
That in itself, you should call congress and be like, whatever they want, don't give it to them.
这些人钱太多了。
These people have too much fucking money.
听好了，甜心。
Listen, sugar tits.
是的。
Yeah.
所以，这就是Metabolife进入市场时的环境。
So this is the environment in which Metabolife goes to market.
好的。
Okay.
这是一家多层次营销公司，就像之前的Herbalife一样，销售所谓的草本减肥补充剂。
It was a multilevel marketing company that, like Herbalife before it sold herbal weight loss supplements, quote unquote,
当你不能在商店或普通地方买到它，而必须打电话给某人，且他们的网站根本不说明产品是做什么或包含什么时，这通常是个好迹象。
that's always a good sign when like you can't buy it at a store or from like a normal place you have to like call up somebody and like their website doesn't say what they do or what it comes.
这就是你知道它有效的标志。
That's how you know it works
当一个高中时的朋友请你去卖它的时候。
when a friend from high school asks you to sell it.
它由迈克尔·布莱文斯和迈克尔·艾利斯创立，两人都是大圣地亚哥地区的童年好友。
It was started by Michael Blevins and Michael Ellis, two dudes from the Greater San Diego area who had been childhood friends.
他们不是同性恋吧？
They're not gays, are they?
我不必对同性恋生气。
I don't have to be mad at gays.
不，他们不是同性恋。
No, they're not homosexuals.
因为那样我就得支持他们，尤其是如果他们身高不到五英尺八英寸的话。
Because then I would have to support it, especially if they were under five eight.
你就会开始大喊代表很重要。
You just start yelling representation matters.
矮个子的同性恋迈克尔们。
Short gay Michaels.
对不起。
I'm sorry.
在《膳食补充剂健康与教育法案》通过时，埃利斯正在不停地换工作。
At the time that the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act passes, Ellis is bouncing around from one job to another.
据报道，他曾短暂担任过司机、房地产经纪人和私家侦探。
He reportedly worked for a time as a chauffeur, a real estate agent and a private investigator.
哦，不。
Oh, no.
没错，迈克尔，‘哦，不’是对的。
Oh, no is correct, Michael.
我只是觉得，红灯，红灯，全是红灯。
I'm just like, red flag, flag, red flag.
再说一遍，有两个联合创始人。
Again, there are two co founders.
一个是迈克尔·艾利斯，另一个是迈克尔·布雷文斯。
There's Michael Ellis and Michael Blevins.
迈克尔·艾利斯后来写了一本关于Metabolife的书。
Michael Ellis went on to write a book about Metabolife.
哦。
Oh.
他还成为了公司的代言人。
And he also became the face of the company.
好的。
Okay.
所以我们将会更多地关注他，因为我们从他那里听到了更多内容。
So we're gonna focus more on him because we've heard more from him.
在书中，他讲述了在创立Metabolife之前，20世纪80年代他做过的几份工作。
In the book, he writes about a couple of his prior jobs in the 1980s before founding Metabolife.
第一份是担任圣地亚哥附近国家城警察局的警察。
The first is as a police officer for the National City Police Department near San Diego.
好的。
Okay.
他详细描述了申请过程的竞争有多激烈——300名申请人争夺三个职位，而他成功入选。
He writes at some length about how competitive the application process was that there were 300 applicants for three open jobs, and that he made the cut.
好的。
Okay.
但他也说，他只是需要钱。
But he also says he just needed the money.
那句话，一份持枪的工作听起来很有趣。
And that quote, a job with a gun sounded interesting.
酷。
Cool.
你一说‘我想搞把枪’，我就被你说服了。
You had me at I wanted a gun.
我想买你的减肥保健品。
I want to buy your weight loss supplements.
我已经入坑了。
I'm already in.
当他谈到他负责的街区时，情况也不怎么样。
When he talks about the neighborhoods he policed, it is also not great.
他花了大量篇幅描述街道和建筑有多么破败。
He has long passages about how run down the streets and buildings are.
不错。
Nice.
他长篇大论地谈到以拉美裔为主的街头帮派之害。
He goes on at length about the scourge of street gangs that are predominantly Latino.
在一次前往所谓的帮派战争地带的出警中。
On one of those calls to the quote unquote gangbanger warzone.
不错。
Nice.
他最终追捕了一名男子，据称这名男子用螺丝刀威胁要刺伤他和搭档。
He ends up chasing someone who he says starts threatening to stab him and his partner with a screwdriver.
好的。
Okay.
迈克尔·艾利斯随后向这名男子开枪，对方倒地不动。
Michael Ellis goes on to shoot this person who collapses and stops moving.
根据艾利斯的说法，这名年轻人因此永久致残。
According to Ellis, this young man is permanently disabled as a result.
他讲这个故事时，是想把自己塑造成英雄吗？
Is he telling this as like, like, I'm a hero story?
这是他讲述自己如何意识到当警察并不适合自己的故事。
This is his story of being like, this is how I learned being a cop was not for me.
但很奇怪的是，在这本书中，他只真正谈论了这件事对他自身情绪的影响。
But it's very odd that in the book, he only really talks about the impacts on his own emotional state.
没错。
Right.
没错。
Right.
他根本没有深入思考过这个年轻人本可以拥有的人生、对他的家庭造成的影响，或者对社区的深远后果。
He doesn't really grapple with like the life this dude could have lived or the effect on his family or the implications for the community.
完全没有存在主义的反思。
There's no existential anything.
他只是说：我开枪打死了一个人，我感到很难过，我不想再难过了。
It's like I shot someone and I felt really bad and I didn't want to feel bad anymore.
我真不敢相信，一个病态的个人主义者居然会去推销减肥产品。
I can't believe a pathological individualist would go on to sell weight loss supplements.
1990年，迈克尔·埃利斯离开警队后，面临毒品指控。
In 1990, after leaving the police force, Michael Ellis faces drug charges.
等等，什么？
Wait, what?
他之所以被指控，是因为他租了一栋房子，专门用来制造冰毒。
So he was charged because he had rented a house for the express purpose of cooking meth in it.
我的那个关于冰毒的笑话是真的。
My meth joke is true.
你的冰毒笑话比你想象的还要真实得多。
Your meth joke is so much truer than you realize.
等等，他明明在亲自制造该死的冰毒，然后跑去卖减肥药？
Wait, he's literally cooking fucking meth and then he goes out to sell a weight loss pill?
他和他未来的联合创始人迈克尔·布雷文斯租了一栋房子，雇了一名制毒者，试图制造冰毒。
He and Michael Blevins, his future co founder, rented a house, hired a cook, and attempted to make meth.
他们雇了个制毒师？
They hired a meth cook?
他们雇了一个制毒师。
They hired a meth cook.
你雇了个制毒师？
You hire a meth cook?
准备在Craigslist上发布吗？
Ready to add on Craigslist?
听起来他们俩都不太擅长当毒品大亨。
It sounds like he was like, neither one of them was very good at being a drug kingpin.
埃利斯租了一栋房东正打算出售的房子。
Ellis rented a house that the owners were trying to put on the market.
所以他们刚把制毒的设备布置好，房东就通知他们说，有买家要来看房。
So they kept getting things set up to cook meth, and then they'd get a notice from the landlord that like, hey, some buyers are coming by.
是的。
Yep.
他们用毯子盖住了制毒实验室。
They put a blanket over the meth lab.
他们就像把一切拆掉并收了起来。
They're like, dismantled and put it all away.
这简直就是《绝命毒师》的情景喜剧版。
That's like the sitcom version of Breaking Bad.
哎呀，我们又得把甲基苯丙胺实验室藏起来了。
Like, we gotta hide the meth lab again.
这就像海森堡耸耸肩，直视镜头说：
It's just Heisenberg shrugging and looking into the camera like,
天啊，这太搞笑了，他居然连自己都懒得去煮甲基苯丙胺。
dude, that's so funny that, like, he couldn't even cook the meth himself.
他得把这事外包出去。
He had to delegate it.
他这计划可真是精心算计啊。
He, like he it was such a calculated plan.
我要当个甲基苯丙胺大亨，结果还得雇人来干。
Like, I'm gonna be a meth kingpin that he, like, hired it.
这就像开一家面包店之类的。
It's like opening a bakery or something.
好吧，现在我得雇一些面包师了。
Well, now I have to hire some bakers.
值得一提的是，布雷文斯和埃利斯都自首并认罪了。
To their credit, both Blevins and Ellis turned themselves in and pled out.
所以警察最终找到了他们，然后他们说，是的。
So the cops eventually found them, and then they were like, yes.
我们做了这件事，然后达成了认罪协议。
We did this and then got a plea deal.
同样，这个地方我们没有当时其他报道的数字化记录。
Again, this is a place where we don't have digitized records of other reporting from the time so much.
等等。
Wait.
在他的书里，他说，毫无理由地，他直接走进警察局，说：你好。
So in his book, he says, for no reason, he just marched into the police station and said, hello.
我在制造冰毒？
I'm cooking meth?
他说，我们为此谈过一次。
He was like, we had a conversation about it.
我们觉得这是正确的做法，想做个正直的人。
We decided it was the right thing, and we wanted to be, like, upstanding guys.
所以我们自首了，但结果根本没发生那种事。
So we turned ourselves in, and there's like, that didn't happen.
不。
No.
几个该死的圣地亚哥混蛋会主动自首？绝对不可能。
A couple of fucking San Diego dirt bags are turning themselves like, absolutely not.
绝对不可能。
Absolutely not.
不好意思，警官。
Excuse me, officer.
不好意思。
Excuse me.
我昨天偷了东西。
I I stole something yesterday.
我只是想让你知道我违法了，你可以惩罚我。
I just wanna let you know that I broke the law so you can punish me.
我不能说谎。
I cannot tell a lie.
是的。
Yeah.
他一定是被抓了。
He must have gotten caught.
迈克尔·艾利斯被判缓刑，而迈克尔·布莱文斯因雇佣厨师并运输冰毒被判入狱。
Michael Ellis is sentenced to probation, and Michael Blevins is sentenced to prison as the guy who hired the cook and transported the meth.
因此，当迈克尔·布莱文斯在监狱里时，迈克尔·艾利斯开始经营代谢生产品。
So while Michael Blevins is in prison, Michael Ellis starts metabolife.
好的。
Okay.
以我玩甲基苯丙胺的经验，我转行做了膳食补充剂。
He's like with my experience in meth, I went into diet supplements.
没错。
Yep.
对。
Correct.
所以，迈克尔·埃利斯在媒体上和他书中讲述的故事是，他在父亲接受癌症治疗期间研发了Metabolife，以帮助父亲对抗疲劳和负面症状。
So the story that Michael Ellis tells about this sort of in the press throughout and in his book is that he developed metabolife while his father was undergoing cancer treatment to help him combat fatigue and negative symptoms.
他有化学方面的背景吗？
Does he have any background in chemistry or anything?
他就是一个普通人。
He's like a random guy.
他是个警察，是个司机，
He's a cop, a chauffeur,
PI。
PI.
那是什么意思？
What does that mean?
比如，我怎么可能会作为一个普通平民开发出这种东西？
Like, I developed a how would you even do that as, like, a random civilian?
他没说。
He doesn't say.
是的。
Yeah.
1992年，他开始销售它。
In 1992, he starts selling it.
最初，他在类似健美健身房的黄金时代将它作为增肌补剂进行营销。
Initially, he starts marketing it as a bodybuilding supplement at gyms in the sort of Gold's Gym era.
这是减脂产品还是增肌产品？
And it's a weight loss thing or it's a muscle building thing?
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
现在他说这是增肌产品，但这行不通。
Right now he's saying it's a muscle building thing, but that doesn't work.
他说这是用于减重的。
He goes, it's for weight loss.
这两者是相反的，这很有趣。
Those are opposite things, which is very funny.
其中一个帮助你增重。
One of them helps you put on weight.
另一个帮助你减重。
The other one helps you take off weight.
没错。
Correct.
是的。
Yeah.
活性成分被宣传为马王黄，一种中草药补充剂。
The active ingredient is marketed as mahwang, a Chinese herbal supplement.
没错。
That's true.
那是一种真正的草药。
That's an actual herb.
那是一种真正的草药。
That's an actual herb.
Metabolife 将 mahwang 用作食欲抑制剂，但在中国传统医学中，它 historically 被用作感冒疗法。
Metabolife uses mahwang as an appetite suppressant, but historically in Chinese medicine, was used as a cold remedy.
好吧，mahwang 在传统草药中的用法是用叶子泡茶，而不是蒸馏、研磨成胶囊之类的玩意儿。
Okay, the historical herbal use of mawang is to make a tea out of the leaves that are not distilled down and crushed into a capsule and all of that kind of shit.
Metabolife 的经销商告诉你每天都要服用，对吧？
Metabolife distributors are telling you to take this every day, right?
所以我每天吃Mucinex，就是觉得能让自己感觉好一点。
That's why I take Mucinex every day to make me feel a little bit healthier.
对。
Right.
这就像是你每天都在吃泰诺感冒药一样。
It would be like if you were like, I'm taking NyQuil every fucking day of my life.
回想起来，那时候你随便说一句‘这是古老的中国草药成分’，大家就都信了，这真是太搞笑了。
This is also it's such it's so funny thinking back on this time when you could just say, like, it's an ancient Chinese ingredient.
是的。
Yep.
然后每个人都说：‘哦。’
And everybody like, oh.
这就是全营养公司的整个商业模式。
That is the entire herbalife model.
对吧？
Right?
还有Metabolife的整个商业模式。
And the entire metabolife model.
我们现在有两个多层次营销公司，都在大肆宣扬什么‘古老的中国秘密’之类的胡扯。
We now have two MLMs that are just, like, doing the full, like, ancient Chinese secret fucking bullshit.
完全正确。
Totally.
Metabolife的经销商们讲述着关于它在减肥方面惊人效果的传奇故事：想吃啥就吃啥，照样能瘦下来，简直太惊人了。
Metabolife distributors tell really extraordinary stories about its effectiveness in weight loss, eating whatever you want, still losing weight, bottom Wow.
我感觉棒极了。
I feel incredible.
他们还在《DJ法案》通过后大肆吹嘘。
They also brag after the passage of the DJ.
他们宣传说，我们是唯一经过实验室安全检测的减肥补充剂。
They advertise that we're the only weight loss supplement that's lab tested for safety.
哦，什么？
Oh, what?
但他们之所以能这么讲，是因为他们不受监管。
But also they can just fucking say that because they're in regulation.
他们完全可以胡说八道。
They can just fucking lie.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Correct.
对。
Correct.
对。
Correct.
而且你提到，每粒代谢片中含有十二毫克的麻黄碱和四十毫克的瓜拿纳提取物。
And you called it it's both mahwang, twelve milligrams of mahwang in a metabolite caplet and forty milligrams of guarana concentrate.
这可是咖啡因，宝贝。
That's caffeine, baby.
等等。
Wait.
是瓜拿纳吗？
Is it guarana?
所以这大约相当于一杯浓缩咖啡的咖啡因含量。
So it's about one espresso shot worth of caffeine.
好的。
Okay.
当这个业务作为多层次营销起步时，迈克尔·布莱文斯——那个正在坐牢的人——开始在监狱里招募经销商。
As the business is getting started as an MLM, Michael Blevins, he who is in prison, starts recruiting distributors in prison.
等等。
Wait.
真的吗？
Really?
利用你的关系网，宝贝。
Use your networks, baby.
把那些Facebook消息发出去。
Get those Facebook messages out.
我对这件事感到非常矛盾。
I had real conflicted feelings about this.
这是一个多层次营销，从上到下都是垃圾。
It's an MLM, so it is garbage from top to bottom.
他们在销售一种从上到下都是垃圾的产品。
They are selling a product that is garbage from top to bottom.
而且，众所周知，在多层次营销中赚钱的是最早入门的人。
And also, famously, the people who make money in an MLM are the first people to get in the door.
所以在这种情况下，囚犯们因此变得富有。
So in this case, the prisoners got, like, rich off of it.
他们就像是前10个人。
They're, like, the first 10 people.
于是我心想，这是财富再分配吗？
So I was like, is this redistribution of wealth?
他们说，不是。
And they're like, no.
他们是在利用自己的人脉网络拉人。
They're recruiting from their fucking networks.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
他们正在坑害自己认识的人。
They're fucking over people that they know.
也许前10个囚犯能赚钱，但接下来的90个囚犯就赚不到钱了。
And the first 10 prisoners might make money, but the next 90 prisoners don't.
一旦Metabolife在1995年作为减肥补充剂和多层次营销模式推出，业务就迅速壮大。
Once Metabolife launches as a weight loss supplement and as an MLM in 1995, the business grows really big, really fast.
在头几年，它的利润就已经达到数百万美元。
In the first couple of years, its profits, it's already turning a profit in the millions.
不可能吧。
No way.
就在头两年左右。
In the first like two years.
1999年，也就是推出四年后，他们报告了10亿美元的销售额。
In 1999, just four years after the launch, they report $1,000,000,000 in sales.
我想他们是在这项法律通过后尽早入局的。
I guess they just got in early after this law got passed.
很可能当时存在一个空白，他们趁机填补，并在几乎所有人都开始这么做之前，做出了这些夸张的健康宣称。
There's probably like a vacuum that they were able to fill and just making these insane health claims before essentially everybody started doing that.
这是一个竞争激烈的市场。
It was a crowded market.
是的。
Yes.
而且使用麻黄的不只是这一个品牌。
And it's not the only one using Ma Wong.
它是最受欢迎的之一，但并不是唯一的。
It's one of the most popular ones, but it's not the only one.
市场上还有其他品牌。
There are also brands on the market.
你可能记得这些。
You may remember these.
我 definitely记得。
I definitely do.
Xenadrin EFX。
Xenadrin EFX.
不。
No.
Hydroxycut。
Hydroxycut.
我可能也曾经服用过那个一段时间。
I may have even taken that one for a while.
还有一种叫作'草本兴奋剂'的产品。
And one called, and I quote, herbal ecstasy.
它会让你去舔别人的脸，但它是草本的。
It'll make you lick someone else's face, but it's herbal.
等等。
Wait.
我在看。
I'm looking.
我搜了一下。
I googled.
我想看看他们的标志。
I wanna see their logo
很糟糕。
It's bad.
现在这个时候。
At this time.
哦，太糟糕了。
Oh, it's so bad.
Metabo Life。
Metabo Life.
它亮黄色，还用了七种不同的字体。
It's like bright yellow, and there's like seven different fonts happening.
还有一个小金标和红色字体，上面大大地写着‘减肥’。
There's like a little gold seal and red font, and it just says diet in big letters.
为了增强你的……然后字体突然放大了五十号，写着‘减肥’。
To enhance your and then it's like the font goes up, like, 50 sizes, and it says diet.
哦，还有提供能量，星号，星号。
Oh, and provide energy, asterisk, asterisk.
是的。
Yeah.
字特别小。
It's a super small print.
所有
All of
这些品牌在1997年也获得了巨大增长，大赚了一笔。
these brands also get a big boost in 1997, a big windfall.
从电影《碟中谍》上映，由G.
From the release of entrapment, starring G.
O.
O.
琼斯主演开始。
Jones
是的。
and Yeah.
每个人都想模仿她，穿梭于激光之间。
Everybody wanted to look like her, snake through those lasers.
穿梭于激光之间。
Snake through the lasers.
不。
No.
他们在1997年获得的推动是，芬氟拉明和芬特明被撤出市场。
The boost they get in 1997 is that Fen Phen is pulled off the market.
哦，对了。
Oh, right.
所以芬氟拉明这种奇迹药物，会让人的心脏停止跳动。
So Fen Phen miracle drug that stopped people's hearts.
关于这个故事，我们之前做过一期节目，如果你想了解，可以回去听一下芬氟拉明那期。
And the thing that we have done a previous episode on, if you would like to know that story, go back and listen to the Fen Phen episode.
只靠一颗药丸就能让心脏停止，这简直是个奇迹。
It is kind of a miracle that with with a single pill, you can stop your heart.
太不可思议了。
Incredible.
他只是长期在做这项工作。
He was just working on for so long.
太棒了。
So amazing.
这最终给整个行业带来了巨大的好处。
That winds up being quite a boon to the industry.
对吧？
Right?
你有这么多曾经服用芬氟拉明的人，现在因为药下架了而非常沮丧，因为那药根本没让他们的停跳。
You've got all these people who were on Fen Phen who are really dejected that it's like off the market because it didn't stop their heart.
什么鬼？
What the fuck?
是的。
Yeah.
他们正在寻找别的东西。
And they're looking for something else.
而且实际上，这些东西你可以在加油站便宜买到，根本不需要看医生，找邻居就能搞到。
And actually, these things you can get cheaper and at the gas station, you don't even need to get a doctor involved, you can get it from your neighbor.
对。
Yeah.
所以现在这些成了全国最大的药片制造商之一，对吧？
So these are now some of the biggest sort of like, pill makers in the country, right?
他们有一大笔钱。
And they have a bunch of fucking money.
所以他们的广告遍布电视。
So their ads are all over TV.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我们来看一个2000年的Metabolife广告。
So we are going to watch a metabolife ad from two thousand.
你想买点代谢增强剂吗？
You wanna buy some Metabolism Boost?
它经过实验室安全检测了吗？
Is it laboratory tested for safety?
没有。
No.
但它更便宜。
But it's cheaper.
要不要来点代谢增强剂？
How about some Metabolism Boost?
它和代谢素356的草本配方一样吗？
Does it have the same herbal blend as Metabolite three fifty six?
不一样，但它含有所有相同的草本成分。
No, but it's got all the same herbs.
我不这么认为。
I don't think so.
那手表呢？
Well, what about a watch?
你想买块手表吗？
You wanna buy a watch?
别被仿冒品骗了。
Don't be fooled by imitators.
代谢素之所以排名第一，是有原因的。
Metabolite is number one for a reason.
经过实验室安全检测，仅用于减重，仅通过Metabolite授权零售商和经销商提供，请致电查询您最近的购买点。
Laboratory tested for safety and clinically For weight loss only available through metabolite retailers and distributors call for the location nearest you.
所以对听众来说，情况是有一个穿着风衣的人，打开风衣，里面缝满了仿制的Metabolite瓶子。
So for the listener, what is happening is that there is a guy wearing a trench coat who opens his trench coat and it's lined with like fake bottles of metabolite.
他深夜还在精心地在风衣里缝制额外的口袋。
He's up late at night like meticulously sewing the extra pockets into his trench coat.
他心想：我得能轻松打开衣襟。
He's like, I gotta be able to open the flap.
这个毒贩子真是很有毅力。
This drug dealer has dedication.
是的。
Yeah.
所以他们在做一件很奇怪的事，暗示竞争对手既可疑又像毒品，而他们自己却不是毒品。
So they're doing this weird thing where they're, like, implying that their competitors are, like, a, shady, and b, like, drugs, and they are not drugs.
他们抱怨那些来路不明的仿冒生产商，真是滑稽。
It's so funny for them to complain about, like, fly by night counterfeit producers.
他们说，听我们的，一个阻止别人的人，但也是一个不亲自制造冰毒、却雇佣了制造冰毒的人。
They're like, take it from us, a fucking cop who disables someone, but also a guy who doesn't cook the meth but does hire the guy who cooks the meth.
因为你这说法也是你刚编的。
Because you just made this up too.
和那些人一样
Just as much of a
和卖假代谢产品的人一样是毒贩。
drug dealer as people selling counterfeit metabolites.
嗯，迈克尔，这个毒贩的故事越来越复杂了。
Well, Michael, the drug dealer plot thickens.
哦。
Oh.
因为活性成分麻黄碱在英语中更常被称为麻黄。
Because the active ingredient mahong is better known in English as ephedra.
等等，麻黄是什么？
Wait, what's ephedra?
麻黄是这种植物的名字。
Ephedra is the name for the plant.
这种植物含有被称为生物碱的成分，即麻黄碱和伪麻黄碱。
The plant has sub compounds called alkaloids called ephedrine and pseudoephedrine.
哦，那就是制毒用的东西。
Oh, that's the meth shit.
现在买这种东西必须出示身份证了。
That's the shit you can't buy without ID anymore.
是的。
Yep.
没错。
Correct.
老兄，就是你生病时用的那种东西。
Dude, that's the shit when whenever you're sick.
如果你得了什么病，叫什么来着？
If you get, like, what is it called?
Mucinex Part D 之类的玩意儿，简直就是纯可卡因。
Mucinex Part D or some shit, it's a full on crack cocaine.
就像那种你得去商店，然后跟店员要柜台后面那东西一样。
It's like the shit that you have to go to the store and, like, ask for the thing behind the counter.
我有一次这么干过，因为推荐剂量是吃两粒。
I did this once because the suggested dose or whatever is two of them.
我当时想，我从来没吃过这玩意儿。
And I was like, I've never taken those before.
我就吃一粒。
I'll take one.
我感觉我能把一辆大众甲壳虫举起来。
I felt like I could, like, lift a fucking Volkswagen.
是的。
Yes.
他们居然建议你吃两粒这种该死的东西？
I'm like, they tell you to take two of these fucking things?
所以对于在2000年代中期之前购买过感冒药的美国人来说，你们会认得Sudafed这个品牌。
So for Americans who bought cold medicine before, like, the mid two thousands, you will recognize the brand name Sudafed.
你仍然可以买到它。
You can still get it.
它放在柜台后面。
It's behind the counter.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
它是伪麻黄碱的缩写。
It's short for pseudoephedrine.
那就是它的成分。
That's what it was.
是的。
Yeah.
除了在中国医学中用作感冒药外，它在美国也被用于同样的目的。
In addition to its Chinese medicine use as a cold remedy, it was also used in The US for the same purposes.
直到20世纪80年代，麻黄碱还是非处方的感冒和过敏药物。
Until the 1980s, ephedrine was an over the counter cold and allergy medicine.
我打赌它能彻底通你的鼻窦。
I bet it clears out your fucking sinuses.
你的心跳快得像每分钟300下。
Your like heart is beating like 300 times a minute.
是的。
Yeah.
所以麻黄碱确实会收缩血管并加快心率。
So ephedrine does in fact constrict your blood vessels and speed up your heart.
对于哮喘患者来说，这意味着它能帮助减轻气道肿胀，确实对呼吸系统问题有帮助。
For people with asthma, that means that it helps reduce the swelling in their airways, and can genuinely be helpful for respiratory stuff.
但最终，由于安全风险和成瘾风险，许多州都禁止了它。
But it was ultimately banned by many, many states because of the safety risks and the risk of dependence.
而且它也是制造冰毒的基础，对吧？
And it was also the basis for cooking meth, right?
是的，伪麻黄碱作为其中一种衍生物，确实是制造冰毒的关键成分。
Yes, Pseudoephedrine as one of those sort of sub compounds was absolutely like a key ingredient in cooking meth Yeah.
这正是伪麻黄碱最终被禁售的原因。
Which is what ultimately got pseudoephedrine banned.
这就是为什么你需要出示身份证，因为你不能随便走进商店买三百包，否则他们会认为你打算大量制造冰毒。
That's why you have to show your ID because you can't just go into the store and buy, like, 300 packets of it because then they assume you're cooking a shitload of meth.
而且我相信，欧盟现在根本不再销售它了。
And I believe it's not sold in the EU at all anymore.
当时存在很高的成瘾风险。
There was, like, a high risk of dependence.
是的。
Yeah.
出售一种会加速心跳的非处方药，存在重大的安全风险。
There are major safety risks for selling something over the counter that speeds up your heart.
你是在
Are you
开玩笑吗？
kidding me?
所以我只服用了推荐剂量的一半。
That's why I only took half the recommended dose.
如果你服用两倍的推荐剂量呢？
What if you took twice the recommended dose?
我的意思是，你可能会真的伤害到自己。
I mean, you could it felt like you could, like, really hurt yourself.
我一吃下去就想，这东西怎么可能是合法的？
I was like, as soon as I took it, was like, why is this legal?
我们之前提到过，这种物质在20世纪80年代的美国主要被用作呼吸系统药物。
You know, we mentioned that this is predominantly used as a respiratory thing in The US in the eighties.
老实说，他们在研究哮喘的过程中意外发现了麻黄草的减重效果。
I will say that they honest to God learned about the weight loss effects of ephedra during asthma research.
所以他们在研究麻黄碱对哮喘的影响。
So they're doing some research into the effects of ephedrine on asthma.
研究人员说：天啊，这些哮喘患者变得真瘦。
And the researchers are like, man, these asthma patients are getting real skinny.
他们简直疯了，总是打架，甚至互相咬人。
They're tripping balls, they're like, fighting and like biting each other all the time.
但你看他们多苗条
But look how trim they
啊。
are.
非常纤瘦，迷你型。
Very svelte, skinny mini.
天啊。
God.
在较温和的情况下，使用麻黄碱的人可能会感到焦躁、焦虑和失眠。
On the less intense end, ephedrine users can experience jitteriness, anxiety and insomnia.
在更强烈的情况下，麻黄碱会加快你的心率。
On the more intense and ephedra does increase your heart rate.
它还会升高血压，从而可能导致心脏事件、中风等各种急性问题，更可怕的是，使用麻黄碱的人甚至可能出现幻觉、抽搐和精神病。
It does increase your blood pressure, which in turn can lead to cardiac events, stroke, all kinds of acute And and really scary on top of all of that, ephedrine users may even experience hallucinations, seizures, and psychosis.
真不错。
Nice.
此外，还有一些对麻黄碱过敏的人，可能会出现喉咙肿胀、荨麻疹等情况。
Also, there are people with ephedra allergies who might experience like their throat closing up, hives, that kind of thing.
除此之外，麻黄碱和制造冰毒的物质类似，使用者会很快对小剂量产生耐受性，必须不断增加剂量。
And on top of all of that, ephedrine, like the methamphetamine that it is then used to make people can develop a tolerance really quickly to a small amount, and they need to up their dose.
所以，为了获得同样的效果，人们会迅速越吃越多。
So very quickly in order to get the same effects, people have to take more and more and more.
然后你还要考虑长期的健康影响和各种副作用。
And then you're talking about long term health and side effects and everything else.
是的。
Yes.
你把这个东西重新包装一下。
You rebrand this thing.
这其实就是一种制药产品。
There's just, like, a pharmaceutical.
你把它重新包装成所谓的中医，人们就会以为自己在服用天然草本的东西。
You rebrand it as, like, ancient Chinese medicine, and people think they're taking something, like, natural and herbal.
但我的意思是，从某种角度来说，一切都是天然的。
But, I mean, everything is natural when you think about it.
自然界中有许多东西。
There are lots of parts of the natural world.
别搞得像韦纳·赫尔佐格那样，但确实，自然界中有许多东西都想要你的命。
Not to get get all Werner Herzog on it, but, like, there are lots of parts of the natural world that are trying to kill you.
这纯粹就是营销，说什么这是麻黄。
It's all just marketing to be like, oh, it's mahwang.
它非常天然，而且历史悠久。
It's very natural and ancient.
听起来这简直就是毒品。
It sounds like it's fucking drugs.
你就是在吃药。
You're just, like, taking drugs.
是的。
Yes.
而且代谢物上列出的成分不只是麻黄。
And the ingredient listed on metabolite isn't just mahwang.
它是麻黄浓缩物。
It's mahwang concentrate.
对。
Right.
所以这根本就是一种毒品。
So it's just like a it's a fucking drug.
你是在吃新康泰克。
You're taking Sudafed.
是的。
Yeah.
你是在服用麻黄碱。
You're taking ephedrine.
而且，而且，你不是之前说过，代谢物主要是麻黄和咖啡因吗？
Also also, didn't you say earlier that metabolite is mahwong and caffeine, basically?
对。
Right.
所以当时的研究发现，麻黄和咖啡因的组合比单独使用麻黄略微增加了减重效果。
So research found at the time that the combination of ephedra and caffeine marginally increased weight loss over ephedra alone.
对吧？
Right?
嗯，是啊，简直他妈的明显。
Well, yeah, probably fucking hell.
是的。
Yeah.
你嗑药了。
You're on crack.
但咖啡因，
But caffeine,
就像麻黄一样，也会提高你的心率和血压。
like ephedra, also increases your heart rate and your blood pressure.
它还会增加这些副作用的可能性，尤其是血管和心脏方面的影响。
It also increases the likelihood of those side effects and particularly the, like, vascular and cardiac effects.
对吧？
Right?
所以把咖啡因加进去，简直就像往火上浇汽油，是的。
So adding caffeine to this is really like pouring lighter fluid Yeah.
完全正确。
Totally.
风险方面。
Risk side of it.
对吧？
Right?
而且，这也是你希望在警告标签上注明的，比如，这个东西会让人上瘾。
And, also, this is something that you would want on, like, a warning label of, like, this is habit forming.
你真的可能对这玩意儿过量服用。
You can fucking overdose on this stuff.
我的意思是，
I mean,
你确实可能对咖啡因过量服用。
you can overdose on caffeine.
是的。
Yes.
这再次完美地证明了FDA应该对此进行监管
Again, this is, like, the perfect argument for the fucking FDA to regulate
这玩意儿。
this shit.
迈克尔，让我一个人带着我的百乐柠檬水和宁静吧。
Michael, leave me with my Panera lemonade and peace.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
你真的可能会伤害到自己。
You can, like, really hurt yourself.
所以毫不意外，了解了这些之后，在代谢物上市仅一两年内，不良反应报告就开始陆续出现了，对吧？
So unsurprisingly, knowing all of this, adverse reaction reports started to roll in with just within just a year or two of metabolites launch, right?
代谢物于1995年作为减肥补充剂上市。
Metabolites comes onto the market as a weight loss supplement in 1995.
到1997年，出现了大量不良反应报告。
And by 1997, there's this massive wave of adverse reaction reports.
就好像我只瘦了三磅，却害死了我全家。
It's like I only lost three pounds and I murdered my entire family.
所以
So
早期的不良反应报告显示出，没有心血管病史的人突然出现高血压。和之前的Herbalife一样，许多人并没有报告他们的不良反应，对吧？
the early adverse reactions that come in show reports of sudden hypertension in people without existing cardiovascular As with Herbalife before it, a lot of people didn't report their adverse reactions, right?
有些人认为，因为它被列为草本成分，并且Metabolites宣传过其经过实验室安全检测，所以不可能伤害他们。
Some assumed that because it was listed as herbal and because metabolite touted that they were lab tested for safety, that it couldn't hurt them.
因此，他们根本没有意识到自己出现了奇怪的不明原因高血压，也就没有上报。
So they didn't think to report that they're just like weird mystery hypertension.
对吧？
Right?
另一些人则认为，自己的体重已经导致了健康问题，所以把责任归咎于体重，而不是药物。
Others assumed that their weight already put them at ill health, so they blame their weight and not the medication.
同样，Metabolites是在1995年推出的。
Again, metabolife has launched in 1995.
到1996年，多个州已经提出全面或部分禁令。是的。
By 1996, multiple states are already proposing full or partial bans Yes.
关于麻黄。
On ephedra.
这简直就是可卡因。
It's fucking crack.
当苯丙胺被撤市后，它就成了可卡因。
It's crack when Phen Phen is taken off the market.
那是九月。
It's September.
就在那之后不久，像代谢物这样的麻黄补充剂开始宣传自己是所谓的‘草本苯丙胺’。
And just immediately thereafter, ephedra supplements like metabolites start marketing themselves as quote unquote, herbal Phen Phen.
到了十一月，也就是两个月后，FDA就已经发布了关于麻黄使用及其危险性的正式警告。
By November, two months later, the FDA is already issuing official warnings about ephedra use and the dangers of ephedra.
然而，该产品仍在持续增长，业务也在持续扩张。
Still, the product continues to grow, the business continues to grow.
到1999年，FDA报告了超过一千起不良反应。
And by 1999, the FDA reports over one thousand adverse reactions.
天啊。
Man.
其中三十五人丧生。
And thirty five of those are deaths.
等等。
Wait.
什么？
What?
有人死了？
People died?
在FDA追踪的四年里，已有三十五人因此丧生。
Thirty five people have died in four years that the FDA is tracking.
什么？
What?
是的。
Yes.
对。
Correct.
我们怎么能把芬氟拉明撤下来，却没处理这个烂摊子？
How do we pull a Fen Phen that we didn't pull this shit?
这太疯狂了。
This is fucking crazy.
所以，当然，这引发了一波诉讼浪潮。
So, of course, this leads to a wave of lawsuits.
有消费者提起的集体诉讼。
There are class action suits from consumers.
还有来自分销商的诉讼，其中许多也是消费者。
There are suits from distributors, many of whom are also consumers.
是的。
Yeah.
但还有来自Metabolife的诉讼。
But there are also lawsuits from metabolife.
等等，什么？
Wait, what?
他们开始起诉别人。
They start suing people.
等等，什么？
Wait, what?
谁？
Who?
随着不良事件增多，越来越多的州考虑禁止麻黄素，负面媒体报道也随之增加——这本来就应该如此。
So as these adverse events grow and more states consider bans on ephedra, so too does the negative media coverage as it fucking should.
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
当这些负面新闻出现时，Metabolife 经常以诽谤为由提起诉讼。
And when these negative news stories crop up, Metabolife often file suit for defamation.
这再次表明你正在经营一家真正的企业。
Again, great sign that you're running a real business.
你在向人们销售有用的产品。
You're selling a useful product to people.
在迈克尔·艾利斯关于Metabolife的书中，他谈到了这场诉讼潮，他的反应简直疯狂。
In his book about Metabolife, Michael Ellis writes about this wave of lawsuits, and his reactions are nuts.
所以发吧，发吧，发吧，发吧，发吧。
So send it send it send it send it send
我马上发你一份报价。
send you a quote in a minute.
但先提前说一下，他有一段内容讲到了他为出庭作证做准备的强力组合。
But just as a preview, he has a passage and he talks about his power combo to prep for depositions.
是七种代谢物吗？
Is it like seven metabolites?
是一堆代谢物药片，而且
It's a it's a bunch of metabolite pills and
含烟草。
dip.
真恶心。
Gross.
真恶心。
Gross.
他就像在一个小房间里把东西吐进杯子里。
He's like spitting it in the cup in, like, a little room.
对于我们的年轻听众来说，含烟草就像津恩，但没有茶包。
For for our younger listeners, dip is like Zinn's but without the, like, tea bag.
太恶心了，老兄。
So gross, dude.
他在书中提到，你在嘴唇里放多少含烟草，才不会在录像中露馅。
He does talk in the book about how much dip you can put in your lip without it showing up on camera in the deposition video.
他就像那样做，嘴里还流出棕色的液体。
He's, like, doing that, like, with the brown liquid coming out of his mouth.
他说他有时候会检查自己的嘴唇，摸摸有没有鼓包。
He talks he's like, I would check my lips sometimes and feel if there was, like, a bump.
不。
No.
我们没问题。
We're good.
想想看，如果你同时摄入咖啡因、廉价商店的甲基苯丙胺和烟草，你会有多疯狂。
Also, think about how how psychotic you would feel if you're also if you're on caffeine and, like, dollar store meth and fucking tobacco.
是的。
Yeah.
他的小心脏就像一只小小的鼩鼱。
His little heart is just like a little shrew.
像
Like
对。
Right.
我想象这些效果大概处于可卡因的范围内。
I imagine the effects being somewhere on the cocaine spectrum.
我可不想在那种状态下做证词。
I would not wanna give a deposition in that state.
灾难。
Disaster.
有人问你，比如，你的地址是什么？
Someone someone asked you, like, what's your address?
然后你就开始谈论你的剧本创意。
And you start talking about your screenplay idea.
所以我刚发给你一段书里的文字，是他谈论自己的律师和证词的内容。
So I just sent you a little passage from the book of him talking about his attorneys and depositions.
我要加一些吐口水的声音。
I'm gonna add little spitting sounds.
不。
No.
别。
Don't.
求你了，别。
Please don't.
几秒钟。
Couple of seconds.
我不喜欢。
I don't like it.
他说，我漫长法律斗争中遇到的大多数律师都属于以下两类之一。
He says, most of the attorneys I've met in my long string of legal battles fall into one of two categories.
要么他们拼命工作，要么完全不拼命工作。
Either they work their asses off or they do the opposite of work their asses off.
哦，他是个不错的作家。
Oh, he's a good writer.
哇。
Wow.
这仅仅是He
This is just He
真的描绘出了一幅画面。
really paints a picture.
他们之所以能以这两种方式存在，是因为他们基本上创造了自己的行业。
The reason they could exist in either of these ways is that they've basically created their own industry.
换句话说，法律世界如此复杂、如此混乱，以至于你现在需要律师来处理从应对捏造的诉讼到办公室文件提交的一切事务。
In other words, the legal world is so complex, so convoluted that you now need an attorney for everything from defending yourself against trumped up lawsuits to filing paperwork at the office.
律师只是帮你穿越这片由他们自己制造的迷雾。
Lawyers just help you get through the fog, a fog they created.
再加上司法系统传播的恐惧，你难免会想要聘请一整个律师团队。
Throw in the fear that gets propagated by the justice system, and you can't help but wanna hire a whole team of lawyers.
这正是终极的职业保障。
That's the ultimate job security right there.
我喜欢你连自己的律师都这么不客气的样子。
I love how you're also just like a dick to your own lawyers.
比如，哦，我干嘛需要你？
Like, oh, what do I need you for?
天哪。
Oh my god.
他写到，我的一个律师特别胖。
The way he writes about he's like, one of my lawyers is real fat.
他就是那种婴儿huey型的。
He's real baby Huey type.
你就会觉得，真恶心。
Where you're like, gross.
是的。
Yeah.
而且，他认为律师们都在骗人。
Also, he thinks lawyers are grifting.
对。
Yeah.
我知道。
I know.
我知道。
I know.
他们怎么敢？
How dare they?
他认为每个人时时刻刻都在骗人。
He thinks everyone is grifting all the time.
这是一种自我正当化的叙述。
It is a self justification narrative.
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
我是说，我只是在做大家都做的事。
Like, I'm just doing what everyone's doing.
而且，律师只有在不断有人因死亡而起诉你时，才拥有最终的职业保障。
Also, lawyers only have ultimate job security if you're constantly getting sued for people dying.
他们拥有职业保障的原因实际上是新陈代谢。
The reason they have job security is in fact Metabolism.
也许如果你销售的产品能帮助人们、提升他们的生活，而不是害死他们，你就不会遇到这个问题。
Maybe if you sold a product that, like, helps people or, like, adds to their life rather than killing them, maybe you wouldn't have this problem.
所有这些法律活动增加了媒体关注，从而进一步曝光了麻黄碱产品的某些令人不安的方面。
All of that legal activity increases media attention, which publicizes some more troubling aspects of Ephedra products.
来自越来越多媒体渠道的报道，多到根本不可能全部起诉。
There's more and more media from more and more outlets is frankly too many to sue.
是的，是的。
Yeah, yeah.
这还包括1999年《纽约时报》的一篇报道，采访了一位对市场上麻黄碱产品进行检测的研究人员。
And that includes this 1999 coverage from the New York Times talking to a researcher who tested ephedra products on the market.
这位研究人员的名字是盖利博士。
That researcher's name is doctor Gurley.
盖利博士说，大多数服用麻黄后生病的人，都应该怪自己无视标签上的推荐用量，过量服用。
Doctor Gurley said most ephedra users who become ill can blame their own stupidity for going well over their recommendations on labels.
但他和同事们测试了十几种麻黄产品，发现某些品牌的活性成分含量差异高达130%。
But he and his colleagues have tested the potency of a dozen ephedra products and found that the amount of active ingredient in some brands varied by as much as a 130%.
大多数产品的麻黄碱含量低于标签标注的量，但盖利博士仍然感到担忧。
Most contained less ephedrine than the labels claimed, but doctor Gurley is still troubled.
作为一名消费者和制药科学家，这是一次令人震惊的经历。
As a consumer and a pharmaceutical scientist, it was an eye opening experience.
他说，你不能相信标签上写的内容。
He said, you can't trust what's on the label.
是的，老兄。
Yeah, dude.
它们的含量差异最高可达130%。
They're they're varying by as much as a 130%.
所以你可能摄入了十毫克，或者二十三毫克？
So you might be getting ten milligrams or, like, twenty three?
是的。
Yes.
这太严重了。
That's huge.
对。
Yes.
而且，大多数产品实际含量低于标签标注，这也很糟糕。
Also, the fact that most of them are under what the label claimed is also bad.
我的意思是，人们并不需要更多的麻黄碱，但如果你卖的是十毫克的东西，你就应该实实在在地含有十毫克。
I mean, like, it's not like people need more ephedrine, but it's like, yeah, if you're selling ten milligrams of something, you should have fucking ten milligrams in it.
所以到了九十年代末，不良反应数量不断增加，死亡案例也越来越多，副作用清单也在不断延长。
So by the end of the nineties, there's a growing number of adverse reactions, a growing number of deaths, a growing list of side effects.
这不仅仅是那种心悸和高血压之类的问题。
It's not just the sort of jitteriness and hypertension stuff.
是心脏问题。
It's cardiac events.
是精神病。
It's psychosis.
就在2020年，他们决定拍摄一段关于麻黄和代谢脂的报道。
And that is when twenty twenty decides to film a piece about ephedra and metabolife.
好的。
Okay.
在1999年，2020频道对迈克尔·埃利斯进行了72分钟的采访，用于这段报道。
In nineteen ninety nine twenty twenty film seventy two minutes of interview with Michael Ellis for this piece.
他们最终播出的片段不到15分钟，其中只包含了大约一分钟的埃利斯采访内容。
The segment they run is under fifteen minutes, and it includes about one minute of Ellis's interview.
在媒体上，埃利斯表示，那次采访感觉更像是审讯。
In the press, Ellis says that the interview felt, quote, more like a deposition.
因为你当时在试探吗？
Because you were dipping?
因为你当时
Because you had
是一次质询。
a deposition.
我就是这么叫的。
That's what I called.
我喜欢
I love
得到这么多。
getting so much.
所以采访结束后，他心想：糟了，早有预谋。
So he after the interview, he was like, uh-oh, the fix is in.
这会是一篇攻击性报道。
This is gonna be a hit piece.
因此，Metabolife想出了一个疯狂的策略。
So Metabolife cooked up a wild strategy.
你不能在这集里说‘炮制’这个词。
You can't say cooked up in this episode.
哦，抱歉。
Oh, sorry.
对不起。
Sorry.
对不起。
Sorry.
就像‘叮’一声。
It's like zing.
2020年录制了这次采访并进行了填充。
Twenty twenty recorded the interview and filled it.
Metabolife也是这么做的。
So did Metabolife.
这在当时是一种相当普遍的做法。
This was like a relatively common practice at the time.
是的
Yeah.
他们担心剪辑后会呈现不利的内容。
They were afraid that the edit was gonna be unfavorable.
因此，他们为1999年的情况想出了一个相当大胆且创新的解决方案。
So they came up with like a pretty wild and innovative solution for 1999 purposes.
他们决定将未经剪辑的采访上传到一个独立的网站上。
They decide to upload the uncut interview on a standalone website.
从那以后，这种做法变得越来越普遍。
This has become like more common since then.
然后他们投入了200万美元用于广告宣传，在《邮报》和《时代报》上刊登整版广告，并投放电视广告，包括在2020年期间的一些电视广告。
And then they sink $2,000,000 into an ad campaign, buying full page newspaper ads in The Post and The Times and TV spots, including some TV spots during 2020.
这实际上还挺不错的。
That's actually kinda good.
好吧。
Okay.
就是去这个网站看完整的未剪辑访谈。
Being like, go to this website and see the full uncut interview.
对。
Right.
那个网站，迈克尔，是televisioninterview.com。
The website, Michael, is televisioninterview.com.
什么？
What?
伙计，把这个域名买下来。
Dude, sit on that domain.
这个域名可能值几百万。
That domain's probably worth millions.
我还应该提一下，迈克尔·艾利斯在Metabolife事件之后的网站是mjellis1.com。
I should also say Michael Ellis's website after all of the Metabolife stuff is like mjellis1.com.
真正的michaelellis.com。
Real michaelellis.com.
是的
Yeah.
当采访播出时，它聚焦于Metabolife声称其产品经过实验室安全测试。
When the interview airs, it's focused on metabolites claim that it is quote unquote lab tested for safety.
事实证明，正如《2020》报道的那样，他们的所谓研究样本量极小，且脱落率很高。
As it turns out, and as twenty twenty reports, their quote unquote studies have extremely small sample sizes, They have high dropout rates.
在其中一个案例中，他们甚至无法说明在所谓双盲试验中瓶子内的实际内容。
And in one case, they couldn't account for the contents of the bottles in what was supposed to be a blinded trial.
我们以为自己在给你提供Metabolife。
We think we're giving you Medevilife.
我们不太确定。
We don't we're not sure.
这些制毒者什么都做不好。
These meth cooks can't do anything right.
埃利斯在书中描述了2020年的那次采访，他的说法简直荒谬。
Ellis in the book writes about the 2020 interview, and his account is bananas.
这种语气完全像是从一开始就被安排好了。
The tone is a 100% like the fix was in from the beginning.
是的。
Yeah.
这一情景的章节标题叫做‘事后诸葛亮’。
The chapter title on this scenario is called hindsight is 2020.
抓住他了。
Got him.
他谈到了这个事件的方方面面。
He writes about sort of every aspect of it.
他说，这些家伙太不靠谱了。
He's like, these fuckers are so shady.
例如，他提到2020年的采访者在为电视节目化妆，而埃利斯则说：‘谁给我化妆呢？’
For example, he talks about like the interviewer from 2020 is getting in makeup for TV and Ellis is like, who's gonna do my makeup?
有人给我化妆吗？
Is there somebody to do my makeup?
面试官说：不行。
Interview is like, no.
好吧。
Okay.
埃利斯写道：我懂了。
And Ellis writes, I get it.
我以为他是肯尼迪，而我是尼克松。
I thought he's Kennedy and I'm Nixon.
我知道，伙计，你可以卖一种不会害人的产品。
I know dude or you could sell a product doesn't kill people.
我不确定。
I don't know.
或者你可以
Or you could
这么做。
do that.
你有十亿美元的销售额。
You have a billion dollars in sale.
你可以请一个化妆师。
You could hire a makeup person.
你可以买些遮瑕膏。
You could get some concealer.
你可以做到的。
You could do it.
你可以去Sephora。
You could go you could go to Sephora.
他还说，有一群Metabolife的员工来观看了采访的拍摄。
He also says that a bunch of Metabolife staff came to watch the filming of the interview.
好的。
Okay.
而且他们在拍摄结束后鼓起了掌。
And that they burst into applause after filming.
因为埃利斯表现得太好了，让2020年的采访者显得很糟糕。
Because Ellis was so good, and he made the twenty twenty interviewer look so bad.
那你为什么没把那段放到电视上？
Why didn't you put that on your TV?
他对剪辑提出了异议。
He takes issue with the editing.
他说，我们录了七十二分钟，但他们只播了一分钟。
He's like, we recorded seventy two minutes, and they only aired one minute.
我当时就说，你知道剪辑是怎么回事吗？
And I was like, do you know how editing works?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
明白。
Yeah.
在书里，他写道：‘我想，其他所有内容都让我显得太完美了，不适合播出。’
In the book, he writes, quote, I guess everything else just made me look too good to air.
是的。
Yeah.
整个片段时长为十四分钟。
The entire segment ran for fourteen minutes.
搞定。
Boom.
所以在他脑子里，以为会有一整个小时关于代谢酶的内容。
So in his head, he thought it was going to be a full hour on Metabolase.
他以为会和你进行一场现场直播的访谈，就像逐字逐句的对话一样。
He thought it was gonna be a live interview with you, just like a verbatim interview.
是的。
Yeah.
就像一位在任的总统一样。
Like a sitting fucking president.
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