The Meta Playbook That Took True Sea Moss Beyond Nine Figures

海藻本身，你刚才问到了。

The the Sea Moss itself, you asked about this.

我们绝对不是第一个，这点很清楚。

We're we're not first, hands down.

对吧？

Right?

从Rise的经历里，我也明白了，不一定非得第一个做，才能做到最好。

And from Rise days, I've also learned you don't have to be first to be the best.

对吧？

Right?

而且他本身也是个产品控。

So and then and then he is a product guy at the same time.

当然，他身兼数职，包括市场推广，但他一直在不断打磨产品。

Of course, wearing a lot of hats, including marketing, but, he's constantly perfecting the product.

但顾客通常看不到这些背后的努力。

Customers don't necessarily see it.

他们一直在不断调整口味，而我们也因此持续关注用户留存情况。

They're constantly, you know, perfecting the flavor, And then we're, of course, we're tracking retention because of that.

但那正是他的核心理念——怎样做出市场上最好的产品。

But that was his that was his world of like, how can I make the best product that is out there?

因为我刚接手时，一直在全面梳理，心想：这东西到底是什么？

Because as I was kind of auditing everything as I was moving in, okay, what is this thing?

对吧？

Right?

就是这个海藻。

This Sea Moss.

所以，它是最近十年才在市场冒出来的新东西吗？

So is it like a new thing that kinda got introduced in the market for the past ten years?

但实际上并不是。

But actually, no.

海藻本身已经存在上百年，甚至更久了。

Sea Moss itself has been around for many probably a century, even more.

我不太清楚它到底有多久的历史，但在亚洲、欧洲、非洲这些地方，人们早就直接食用海藻，把它打成泥或者做成奶昔，图的就是它的好处。

I don't know, of course, the how far it goes back, but in different cultures, in Asian culture or in Europe or Africa, people are taking it, the raw sea moss, blending it and making a puree or make making a smoothie or anything like that for the benefits that it had.

所以，这个产品本来就有一批固定的受众。

So there was already an audience for that product.

而且这些好处也不是编出来的，都是有依据的。

And then and the benefits of the of those products are not made up.

这些功效早就在历史中得到了验证。

They're already confirmed by the history.

那我现在该怎么把这东西推广到更广的市场呢？

So how can I now take that and amplify that to wider market?

明白了。

Alright.

这正是我想深入了解的。

That's what I wanna get into.

你看，我正在查谷歌搜索趋势。

Like, I'm looking at I'm looking at Google search trends here.

看起来像是2020年的情况。

It looks like it looks like 2020.

那时候突然就火起来了。

It really started to pop off.

实际上，2020年4月达到了峰值，这挺有意思的。

Actually, it had its highest moment in in April 2020, which is interesting.

就在新冠疫情刚爆发的时候，之前在谷歌搜索趋势里几乎没人关注，现在却起伏很大。

So, like, right as as COVID was hitting and it's really like it was almost nonexistent in Google search trends prior to 2020, and now it's really, you know, a lot of up and downs.

不过挺棒的。

But cool.

咱们来深入看看这个增长吧，因为增长势头简直惊人。

Well, let's dig into the growth here because the growth story is pretty insane.

你加入的时候品牌年收入还不到八位数，一年内就做到了近九位数，这太不可思议了。

You came on when the brand was low 8 figures, scaled to a a nice 9 figure size now in about a year, which is pretty wild.

我想好好聊聊这个增长过程。

So I wanna dig into that growth story.

到底是什么推动了增长？

Like, what what has unlocked growth?

如果要挑出两三个最关键的因素，让真海藻 moss 实现了这种爆炸式增长，你觉得是哪些？

Like, if you could hit on maybe, like, the two or three biggest levers that have really unlocked this this exponential growth for True Sea Moss.

当然。

Absolutely.

是的。

Yeah.

简单提一下2020年，当时有一家公司上了《鲨鱼坦克》，一下子把整个市场都带火了。

The just to quickly address that 2020, there was a other company that went on Shark Tank, and it just exploded everything.

对。

Yeah.

他们把水位抬高了，情况就变了。

So So they rose the tide and and okay.

没错。

Yeah.

你可以说，他们当时确实在做一点需求拉动，但规模根本没到那个程度。

You could say and then they were doing, of course, demand generation a little bit, but I don't think that's that scale.

但现在说到True Sea Moss，我真希望能给你一个全面的总结，嘿。

But now for True Sea Moss, I wish I could tell you very comprehensive, hey.

我们其实做了五六个关键动作，但当我真正走进去之后才发现，嘿。

We did, like, this five, six things, but what I realized walking in is that, hey.

很明显，我们需要一个需求拉动的引擎，而你根本不用到处找，答案就在Meta。

Clearly, we need a demand generation engine, and, you don't need to look far to know what that thing is, and that's Meta.

而且它早就存在了。

And it was already there.

当时表现已经不错了。

It was doing well.

但问题是，我们该怎么放大它？怎么增加预算，怎么建立效果追踪？

But, okay, how can we amplify this by a, how can we increase the spend and implement the measurement?

所以我们让团队对数据负责。

So we hold team accountable for the numbers.

那我们怎么提升创意方面的投入呢？

And then how can we increase the creative input?

对吧？

Right?

根据经验，这确实是最重要的突破口之一。

Just coming from experience, that is, of course, one of the biggest levers.

不过当时True Sea Moss还分布在其他好几个销售渠道上。

And but True Sea Moss was on a bunch of other sales channels.

除了Meta，还有两个主要的获客渠道，就是TikTok Shop和Meta。

There was and then there were, like, two big demand generation machines, of course, TikTok shop and Meta.

但很明显，Meta拿走了绝大部分流量，占比超过九成。

But, of course, Meta was taking the lion's share of that north of 90% of that demand generation.

所以当时我就在想，

Now and so there was of course, I very much like, hey.

不如就集中精力把这一个渠道做好，它已经证明有效了。

Let's focus on this one thing, and it's working.

然后，每个月的数据都在稳步增长。

And then then, of course, month over month, it was kind of starting to grow and grow.

所以问题来了，我们该怎么尽量维持住这个势头？

And so, okay, then the question is, like, how can we keep the ship going as much as we can?

当我们拓展到不同销售渠道时，数据追踪变得特别关键。

And then as we were in the different sales channels, now the measurement became a very big big thing.

当然，得把数据搞清楚、更精准，弄明白每花一美元在需求拉动上，到底带来了多大的整体影响。

Of course, understanding the data, having it more accurately, a, having an accurate data and then measuring the impact of that dollar that you spend on demand generation to how it halos everywhere.

至少得有个大致方向。

At least get a directional.

想得到绝对精确的数字，那是不可能的。

You will never get, like, accurate results over here.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得，康纳，你之前说过，只要能把握住大方向，就完全足够用来做有效的评估了。

I think, Connor, you mentioned that as long as you can have the directional understanding, that's more than enough to you to drive meaningful, assessment of that.

所以，这种投放是不是带来了额外的增长。

So and whether that, place placement is incremental or not.

你能具体说说这个吗？

Can you just speak to that?

True Sea Moss 从一个八位数规模的品牌成长为九位数品牌，你们是怎么确保所依赖的数据准确，从而做出重大决策，心里不打问号的？

Like, at at True Sea Moss's level of growth from a from a low 8 figure brand to now a 9 figure brand, like, how are you making sure the data you're relying on is accurate to make big decisions and and not have any, like, questions in the back of your head?

比如，这个数据到底靠不靠谱？

Like, oh, is this is this data right?

还是说它不可信？

Or is it not?

是的，确实如此。

Oh, yeah.

前几个月我一直在问这个问题，但一直找不到答案。

I've I've been asking that question for for first few months, like not getting anywhere.

后来，随着和Saras的合作，增长就自然而然地发生了。

So which was a natural growth working with Saras.

这已经不是我第一次和Saras合作了。

This is not my first time working with Saras at the same time.

所以能再次和他们一起工作，我特别兴奋。

So I was super stoked to kinda join working with them.

但刚接手的时候，我就在要一些报表。

But, yeah, walking in, like, I I was asking for some of the reports.

我也试着去提取数据报告。

I was trying to pull reports as well.

结果一团乱。

It was just a mess.

不管看哪里，几乎十个产品就有几百个SKU。

Like, wherever I looked, like, there was, like, hundreds of SKUs for for practically for, like, 10 products.

我就想，这些SKU怎么会有这么多？

And I was like, why do those exist?

因为你做的是订阅制业务，得看用户留存群体。

You look at the cohort because it's a subscription business.

简直就是一团糟。

It's it's just complete mess.

比如，有人去挽回客户，

Like, somebody would somebody would go and win back.

结果他们没有被分配到原来的订单，反而创建了一个全新的订阅。

It would they would not get assigned to that original, order, and it would start as news a new subscription.

我就在想，怎么会这样呢？

I was like, why is that happening?

然后，在我们开始寻找合作伙伴之前，我们要经历的那些头疼事儿，真是让人无语。

And then, like, just just the share of headache that we had to go through, before we started looking for a partner was just yeah.

我原本以为，只要搞定几个小环节就行了。

Just I I I was imagining, like, just a few corners just going in.

好的。

Okay.

我打算直接拉出那些关键数据，把它们梳理清楚，然后看看该调哪些报表，或者指派专人去处理。

I'm just gonna get super metrics and just, like, gonna map it out, and then, okay, I'm gonna pull those reports or maybe assign someone.

我当时就想，不行。

I was like, nope.

那根本行不通。

That's that's not that's didn't work.

首先，准确率是个大问题，尤其是在快速增长的时候，每周都要做重大决策，而且投入还很高。

So so first, it was the accuracy problem, big problem, to kinda deal with when you're growing really, really fast and you need to make decisions, like drastic decisions week over week, when the spend is high.

其次，当然就是该怎么全面地扩大我们的数据测量范围。

And the second is, of course, okay, how can we now deploy, a wider measurement, across this?

后来，当AI这个话题被提出来时，Saras主动牵头说，现在你们可以用大量提示词，轻松提取出这些数据。

So like and then, of course, when the AI kind of came to the conversation, Saras definitely took a lead of like, hey, now you can apply, like, you can use so many, prompts to actually pull that data a lot more easily.

这简直太对我的胃口了，因为从这一刻起，我们的游戏规则彻底变了。

And and it was like, that just music to my ears because, wow, now the game has changed for us, from here on.

特别是当你涉及多个销售渠道，而我们不只是在接入网站数据的时候。

And so when you are especially into multiple sales channels and we're not plugging in only just website data.

对吧？

Right?

就是这样的，没错。

Just that's yes.

这非常重要。

That's very important.

你接入了亚马逊的数据。

You're plugging in Amazon data.

你接入了零售端的数据。

You're plugging the retail data.

而这里的关键在于，除了广告投入，你如何通过定价来捕捉需求。

And then the big factor here is that how you can capture that demand is your pricing, for example, other than the ad spend.

调整不同的定价，会影响你在各个渠道捕捉到的需求量。

So you change different pricing, the your demand capture changes, how much you capture in one channel, second channel.

于是你和团队一起模拟各种场景，结果效果非常好。

So you're working with them to hypothesize with, you know, all those scenarios, and, it worked really, really well.

当然，今年早些时候我们也经历了一次小小的危机，就是产品召回的事。

Of course, we went through a little bit of crisis as well earlier this year, with the recall.

这个我们也可以聊聊。

We can talk about that as well.

但有个特别有意思的地方，Saras主动站出来说了句：嘿。

But that was also a very interesting point where Saras came in came came up front and say, like, hey.

咱们不妨设想一下，从现在开始能有哪些应对方案？

Let's let's imagine let's hypothesize on scenarios that we can what what's the plan from here?

因为当时整个团队都乱了阵脚。

Because there was just panic all over the place, throughout the team.

那接下来我们到底该怎么走？

And so what is the game plan from here?

如果情况A发生，情况B也发生，结果一下子冒出了十种可能的情景。

If scenario a happens, b happens, but all of sudden, we had 10 scenarios.

而有了这些预案，大家心里踏实多了。

And then having that just gave us all so much peace.

而要达到这种状态，唯一的办法就是把数据理顺。

And only way we could achieve that is just to have data in order.

所以查德经常提到，订阅制品牌的黄金标准是客户生命周期价值与获客成本的比率达到三倍。

So do you Chad talks a lot about, like, gold standard for a subscription brand is three x lifetime value to CAC ratio.

他们整个业务都是围绕这个指标来优化的。

And they basically optimize their business off of that.

他们有足够的用户分群数据，能清楚地知道：如果现在的获客成本是这个数，那对应的生命周期价值——不是收入，而是实际的贡献毛利——应该会达到三倍。

And they have enough cohort data where they know like, alright, if CAC's here today, like, this is gonna back into this lifetime value, not revenue, but like actual I think he looks at it as like a three x, like, actual lifetime contribution margin to CAC ratio.

甚至都不是看收入。

So not not even not revenue even.

那你是怎么看待你自己的业务的，卢卡？

So how how are you thinking about your your business, Luka?

如果要为真海藻选两个最关键的指标来做决策，你会选哪两个？

Like, what's your like, if the if you had to choose two KPIs to make decisions off of for True Sea Moss, like, what are those KPIs?

是查德，LTV和CAC的比率在大多数情况下确实是金科玉律。

It's Chad, I mean, there's the LTV to CAC is the holy grail, for the most part.

虽然在某些特殊情况下它可能有误导性，但总体来说，这确实是最核心的黄金比例。

It can be deceiving in certain cases, but, like, for the most part, like, that's kinda the golden ratio is that.

除了每日增长表或者Sara的仪表盘之外，最重要的图表就是LTV分群报告。

And, also, every the the most important chart other than just, like, daily growth spreadsheet or, you know, Saras dashboard is the LTV cohort report.

比如说这个月我们从DTC官网新增了五万名客户。

So the cohort report is, say we have, like, 50,000 new customers this this month from DTC, just just DTC website.

我们在这上面花了多少钱？

What are we doing with what how much we have spent?

产品成本是多少？

How much we had paid for the product?

履约费用、退单、退款、平台手续费这些可变成本都扣掉之后，再减去广告支出，剩下的才是你的贡献毛利。

Fulfillment, what is our contribution number three, which is after product fulfillment, you strip out some of the chargebacks, refunds, merchant fees, all the variable costs, and then the ad spent, of course, and that's your contribution.

大多数情况下，你都是亏钱的。

So you're in negative for the most part.

订阅制业务一开始都是亏本的。

Sub focused businesses are negative.

那我们什么时候能回本呢？

And then where do we breakeven?

这个点是什么意思？

What is that point?

十二个月后，两年后，我们就能达到那个水平。

And then after twelve months and after two years, we're going to we're going to be there.

关键在哪里？

What's the point?

这种情况算好吗？

Is is that a good scenario?

这样好吗？

Is it good?

那什么才算不好？

What's bad?

这还只是直接面向消费者的网站呢。

And that's just DTC website.

再把亚马逊的业绩叠加进来，放到另一个表格里。

You overlay some Amazon on top of it into a different tab.

对吧？

Right?

如果你再把零售渠道加上，突然间你会发现，整个业务在这项获客上的盈亏平衡点反而更低了。

You overlay some of the retail, and all of a sudden, what you see is that your breakeven point through for the whole business for that, for that acquisition is actually goes even lower.

对吧？

Right?

不过你得小心，别太兴奋，一下子从四个月回本跳到一个月回本，这变化太大了。

You gotta be careful there, of course, just to know not get super excited because all of a sudden, you just, like, went from four month breakeven to, like, one month breakeven.

但你还是得让官网对自己的业绩负责，确保它离开其他渠道也能撑得住。

But you wanna hold the website accountable for its own metrics so that it can survive without those channels.

当然，那边会有一些数据流失。

Although there's a leakage over there.

对吧？

Right?

我们去好市多、克罗格、沃尔玛这些地方，AMER就会下滑。

We go to Costco, we go to Kroger, Walmart, that AMER will deteriorate.

但现在讨论的重点更转向了：我们怎么才能更好地支持业务？

But now the conversation more leads into, okay, how can we assist the business even better?

客户群报告当然是黄金标准。

But the cohort report is, of course, the holy grail.

LTV与CAC比、AMER、业务MER、CAC、AOV、首次回访——这些关键指标都得看。

LTV-to- CAC, AMER, of course, business MER, CAC, AOV, first returning, all of that good stuff.

归根结底，这其实是一套量身定制的指标优先级体系。

Of course, it's a tailor holiday school of hierarchy of metrics in the end of the day.

所以得认真听市场运营团队怎么说。

So and listening to the marketing ops.

当然，我们当时主要靠两大获客渠道，就是亚马逊和零售渠道，它们反过来又推动了Meta的投放效果。

But, of course, we had, like, very big two demand generation channels, which is Amazon and retail, which was kind of fueling back the meta.

同时，我们始终坚持让官网自己站稳脚跟，不能依赖外部渠道。

And then, of course, we were holding holding our website to its very like, it has to survive on its own.

就算没有那些外部渠道，它也得能活下去。

If none of this existed, it has to survive.

所以，关键是要找到那个盈亏平衡点，让我们能尽可能维持这艘船航行，同时从其他渠道获取全部的贡献毛利。

So, like, what is that breakeven point where we can keep this ship going as much as we can, and we can capture all of that contribution margin from other channels.

然后我们再根据情况调整下一步的行动方向。

And then we can readjust how we can move forward from here.

如果非得让我挑出最重要的一点，我觉得就是这个。

So I think that's kind of the the if I could point out one thing, that's the one.

但说实话，我加入的时候团队已经基本建好了。

But, of course, I walked into already set up team.

当时我们招人招得特别快，公司是迫于无奈才疯狂扩招，因为很多岗位都空着等着人填。

There was already and we were hiring really, really fast because company was going hiring out of desperation because we needed to fill in a lot of roles.

那段时间特别有挑战性，我们也犯了不少错。

And that was very, very challenging, and we made fair share of mistakes over there.

不过，我们一直在学，到现在也还在学。

But, of course, learning, still learning.

我们经常谈增量效应，但到底怎么把它落地，真正让业务变得更好呢？

We talk about incrementality a lot, but how do you actually operationalize it to make your business better?

最近我一直在和团队大力推动这件事，Haus 在其中发挥了巨大作用。

That is one thing that I've been really leaning in with my team recently, and Haus has played a tremendous role.

我们用它来做所有实验和地域增量测试，现在也用它来支持我们的其他工作。

We use it for all of our experiments, all of our geo lift testing, but we now use it for our as well.

我一直是他们的设计合作伙伴。

I've been a design partner.

我是 Haus C 项目最早的几位设计合作伙伴之一。

I've been one of the early design partners on Haus' c.

C 代表因果分析，它是少数——如果不是唯一的话——真正用因果实验来构建模型的工具。

C stands for causal, so it's one of the only if not the only that I've seen that's actually using your causal experiments to build the model.

这让我对数据的信任度大大提高。

And so that allows me to just trust the data so much more.

它不是一个黑箱，反而直接指导了我们的路线图，对我们落地增量分析至关重要。

So it's not a black box, but actually informs our roadmap and has been so crucial for allowing us to operationalize around incrementality.

Haus 团队的专业水平堪称世界一流。

The Haus team is world class.

我对他们的评价再高也不为过。

I can't speak highly enough about them.

他们还打造了一个非常出色的社群，聚集了众多顶尖的DTC增长专家。

They've also built a really amazing community with some of the best DTC growth operators out there.

他们最近会举办几场令人期待的活动，叫做Haus增长实验室。

They have a few exciting events coming up soon that they call the Haus Growth Lab.

一场在5月19日于洛杉矶，另一场在5月21日于纽约。

One is in LA on May 19, and the other is in New York on May 21.

如果你在附近，我强烈建议你去参加一下。

I highly recommend checking it out if you're in the area.

想了解更多关于CMMM的内容，就去house.ioperators网站，今天就开始做出更明智的数据驱动决策。

If you wanna check it out, learn a little bit more about CMMM, go to house.ioperators to start making better data driven decisions today.

关于规模测试，我想简单问一下，实际操作中是什么样的？

So on the scale test, just quickly, I'm curious what that looked like in practice.

你刚加入的时候，就觉得这是个巨大的机会。

You come on board, you're like, hey, this is the big opportunity.

我们需要扩大规模。

We need to scale this.

在扩大规模的同时，我们还得弄清楚这对其他渠道有什么影响。

And while we scale this, we need to understand what is the impact across other channels.

这只是一个观察结果吗？

Is that just an observation?

你是不是说：‘我把预算翻倍，然后看看在Sprouts、亚马逊和DTC渠道上的销售转化情况，再综合分析影响？’

Did you say, hey, I'm gonna double budgets, and then we're gonna look at sell through across Sprouts and on Amazon and on DTC and sort of triangulate the impact there.

比这更系统一些吗？

Was it more scientific than that?

我特别想知道，你具体是怎么做的？听的人能怎么照着做？

Like, I'd love I'd love, like, just a few more details on how someone listening might be able to action what you did.

是的。

Yeah.

首先，我们来看一下。

So the the first thing look.

首先，我们已经看到这种溢出效应了。

A, we were seeing it already halo.

比如，Camp公司业绩增长了七倍。

So for camp company grew seven times.

对吧？

Right?

从两千万元直接涨到了一亿四千万元。

It went from $20,000,000 to $140,000,000.

同时，亚马逊上的销量也大幅增长，差不多是五到六倍。

And then saying that Amazon meantime also grew a lot, also five, six times.

没有哪个品类会在搜索量和需求上这么快地飙升，除非有外部流量涌入这个渠道。

No category grows that fast, like, in terms of search volume and the demand on that query queries that fast unless there's external traffic coming to that coming to that channel.

所以我们早就观察到这种溢出效应了。

So we were already seeing that halo effect.

所以你是在梳理这个逻辑关系。

So you're just mapping it out.

你的意思是，现在我们在Meta上的投放预算翻了三倍，同时发现亚马逊上的搜索流量和销售也跟着上来了。

You're saying, hey, we we're we're we're spending up three x period over period in Meta right now, and we're also seeing our Amazon sales in search queries and traffic growth react.

所以你其实就是想，好吧，我在这边把某个开关一调。

So you're kinda just setting up like a, alright, I'm gonna pull this lever over here.

然后你就清楚自己该关注哪些数据指标了。

And then I'm just you knew which data points you were looking at.

你当时心里就有数，觉得这波投放会产生这种溢出效应。

Like you went into that saying, hey, I think this is gonna halo in this way.

而这些数据点正好能印证你的判断。

And here are the data points indicative of that.

当然，我不是说完全不需要数据支持。

You didn't need any don't get me wrong.

我们这儿也很重视分析工具，但这个例子特别能说明问题。

We love our measurement tools here, but I think this is like a great case in point.

其实很多事情，根本不需要太复杂的分析工具。

Like, you don't need too much fancy measurement tools for all things.

你当初是这么想的吗？

Is that is that correct how you were thinking about that?

没错。

Correct.

那时候我确实做过一些分析，但数据没现在这么全，基本没有足够的数据来做回归分析，我只是试着把各种线索拼起来。

There's I did some back then, there was not that much there was no claw, I would say, to do the same type of regression analysis, but I was trying to basically map it out together.

我主要看几个关键数据点，首先是广告支出。

So I was taking several data points, of course, spending the number one.

当然，就像科迪多次提到的，长期来看，触达新用户始终是个大难题。

But, of course, as, you know, Cody mentioned this number of times as well, like, reaching new people is a very big challenge over time.

所以我把新增触达人数和累计触达人数也加了进去，作为补充指标。

So I was taking that new reach and rolling reach, and applying that on top of it.

这样我就能大概估算：如果我多触达了这么多人，多花了这么多钱，到底能在这些渠道上多抓到多少转化？

So so I can then guesstimate, okay, if I'm reaching x amount of people more and I'm spending this much more, how much I'm actually will will be able to capture more on those channels?

这还只是亚马逊的情况。

And then that's just Amazon.

对吧？

Right?

我们有零售渠道，规模更大，一共有450家门店。

We have retail, bigger like, there's 450 stores.

之前我们只增加了几家。

We were adding few.

现在我们进了全食超市，很快还会进入更多门店。

Now we're in Whole Foods as well and then soon to be in many others.

不过话说回来，

Now that being said, okay.

这个渠道也带来了大量新增需求。

That channel is also generating a lot more demand over there.

另外，TikTok也在为另一类受众独立运作。

So and then we have TikTok also doing its own thing in and of itself for a different type of audience.

我觉得它仍然是互联网上一个相对独立的领域。

I think it's still a separate corner of the Internet that is over there.

所以，我当时其实就是想把这事儿简单画在餐巾纸背面。

But so then then that's kinda I was, like, basically trying to put that in a in a back of a napkin.

对。

Okay.

因为我们得赶紧行动，真的要特别快。

Because I we needed to move fast, like, really fast.

每周我们都得明确下一个目标是什么。

Like, every week, we had to have have answers, of, like, what is our next target?

如果我们加快节奏，提高获客成本的容忍度，会发生什么变化？

What if if we move faster and lower our, increase our CAC threshold, what will change?

咱们就来试试看这些假设。

And let's look at let's test those out.

对吧？

Right?

从MER的角度来看，账户表现是什么样的，也就是总营收和总广告支出之间的关系，诸如此类。

And what does account looks like from a MER perspective, from MER perspective, total revenue to total ad spend, and all of that.

因为在某些情况下，我们原本以为DTC表现不太好，但实际上业务本身做得不错。

Because in certain cases, we were thinking like DTC was not necessarily doing good, but actually, like, business is doing good.

所以问题就来了，好吧。

So then the question is like, okay.

我们不妨先按兵不动，看看其他销售渠道会不会因此受益。

Why don't we hold it there, and then we'll see the fruits of that labor in other sales channels.

但与此同时，我们还得想想，该设定哪些目标，才能让业务增长得更快。

But then let's hold back, and then what else we need to do to in terms of, like, setting targets to make this business grow grow faster.

所以第一阶段，其实就是引入一种全新的分析视角。

So phase one here is just like a new lens of analytical rigor.

也就是说，什么叫做好？

Like, how like, what does good look like?

我们做决策的依据是什么？

What are we making decisions off of?

这真的很棒。

Which is amazing.

你不可能像以前那样迅猛扩张，除非你有一个清晰又简洁的决策框架。

Like, you can't scale as aggressively and as fast as you have and as grooms have unless you have a, like, a well informed yet simple decision making framework framework.

这听起来像是你最早奠定的基础之一。

And, like, that sounds like that was one of the first kind of, like, foundational things you laid down.

那从市场营销的角度来看呢？

What about from a marketing perspective?

你提到过，Meta和TikTok在你来之前就已经是公司现有的获客渠道了。

Like you said, Meta and TikTok were existing demand generation engine that already existed within the business before you got there.

但同时你也觉得，没错，这些渠道是有的，但还能做得更好。

But you also at the same time were thinking, hey, yes, these exist, but they can be better.

它们能带来更多的需求。

They can generate more demand.

我们可以在这些获客渠道上投入更多资源。

We can put more fuel into these demand generation engines.

所以从营销角度看，第一步是先明确怎么衡量效果。

So from a marketing standpoint, so step one, like dial in how you're measuring.

接下来第二步，你应该是大幅扩展了Meta的投放。

Then step two, you presumably really scaled Meta.

具体是怎么操作的呢？

What did what did that look like?

就是实际操作中，你是怎么把Meta这块做起来的？

Like, the actual tactical notes on how you scaled Meta.

对。

Yeah.

我刚去的时候，第一件事就是打开账户看情况，说到底，我骨子里还是个Facebook控。

So there was walking in, just looking at the account, a, like, my I'm a Facebook guy at heart.

所以我的Meta账户一直是Chrome浏览器里第一个固定在标签页上的。

So I'm I'm still Meta at account is my number first, first tab that is pinned on my Chrome.

对吧？

Right?

所以一看账户，自然就会想，这里能改什么？怎么调整设置，才能让账户自然增长？

So so so looking at the account, of course, okay, what we can change here, and what we can how can we set it up the account so that it actually grows naturally?

然后呢，咱们先别急着开新渠道，比如YouTube，那时候还没起来，其他渠道也先放一放。

And then because like, okay, okay, let's not not introduce any new channels, let's say YouTube, which came came around a little bit later or any other channels for now.

就先专注在Meta上。

Let's just like focusing on Meta.

但光有账号还不够，得有燃料才能烧得起来。

But then that's account, but then you need the fuel to that fire.

对吧？

Right?

那燃料就是创意内容。

So that's your creative.

我一进去就发现，虽然账号在涨，但靠的是一套不太精准的策略，根本没怎么围绕UGC或者静态内容来设计。

And walking in, what I had noticed is that although account was growing, it was growing on the back of the strategy that was not necessarily, dialed in towards was not as strategic to kinda create a UGC or static.

也不是完全没有，只是偶尔撞上几条广告效果不错，纯属运气。

It was it was there, but, like, there was we got lucky a few times with few ads.

我当时就想，嗯，这样不行。

I was like, okay.

现在如果只靠这四五条广告就雇三十个人，风险实在太大了。

This is very, very risky right now if we can only rely on those, like, four to five ads and hire 30 people because of this.

不行。

No.

绝对不行。

No.

我们不能这么干。

Don't let's not do that.

对吧？

Right?

我们得先制定一个明确的策略。

Let's have put a, strategy behind it.

我仔细看了下创意策略这块。

So looking at the creative strategy piece, I I looked at it.

嗯，明白了。

Okay.

流量确实很低。

Volume is definitely low.

对吧？

Right?

我们需要尽快拿到的援助，还有多样性，这两点都很关键。

Which aid was something that we need ASAP, and then diversity for sure.

但每个新推出的创意概念，对客户来说都是全新的，所以每次都能带来回报。

But, like, account was every net like, every new concept that we're introducing to the market, it was net new to the account, so it was, like, rewarding us.

好吧。

It's like, okay.

不如我们多试几个方案，看看哪些能行得通？

So how about we take as miss as many shots, on goal and see kinda what sticks, essentially?

咱们降低一下对质量的期待吧。

So let's reduce our expectation in terms of quality.

多碰碰运气。

Let's look get lucky more times.

咱们得提高成功的概率。

Let's increase the odds of this.

所以一个季度内，我们的创意产出，我觉得得翻四五倍。

So, within a quarter, our creative input, I think, like, four or five x.

我们当时的做法是，我倾向于内部团队来做。

And, of course, what we did is like, a, I believe in an in house.

我们很看重广告公司。

Love agencies.

我以前在广告公司待过很久，但我坚信内部团队更能用心经营业务。

I'm from I worked at agencies, a lot, but I definitely believe that people in house do take better care of the business.

所以我们决定组建自己的内部团队，同时在创意方面继续和广告公司合作。

So, so what we did is that, okay, let's take build our in house team, but also continue working with agencies when it comes to creative.

对吧？

Right?

这样既能制造一点良性竞争，也能把顶尖创意公司的想法引入我们的广告账户。

So that, a, we create a little bit of competition, but also create that take those some of the leading creative agencies and input those creative into our ad account as well.

所有这些因素加在一起，帮我们造出了更多成功的案例。

So all of that was working altogether to create more winners for us.

幸运的是，这招还真管用了。

And that, luckily, kinda worked out.

但与此同时，一旦你超越了靠运气碰对的阶段，组建内部团队就是另一回事了。

But at the same time, building internal team is a whole different beast after you surpass that getting lucky face.

明白吗？

Alright?

当你靠随机测试——比如这条文案、那条文案——偶然撞出一批成功广告后，你就得建立一套系统化的方法，来更可预测地衡量我们到底在做什么、测试了哪些变量、现在处于什么阶段。

So once you kinda hit your number of winners by just pure random that I'm messaging that or x messaging or y messaging, Now you kinda have to build a methodical system of, like, how we can create a more predictable measurement on, like, what we're doing, what variables we're testing, which where we at right now.

现在我们反而在减少投放量，把重点放在更精细地优化测试内容上，搞清楚我们真正想回答的问题是什么：到底怎样才能推动业务增长？

And now we're actually dialing back on the volume and putting more pressure on, like, the the pieces that we're testing and the kinda what exactly were, the what are the exact answer questions that we're trying to answer here, when we're talking about, growth for the business.

你们每周或每月大概会上线多少条广告？

How many ads are you launching, like, on a weekly or monthly basis?

我每天都会看，基本上是按天来跟进。

Every day, I think I look at the daily basis.

每天至少会有六个广告上线。

Every day, I think six ads go live at a minimum right now.

明白了。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

这说得通。

So that makes sense.

算下来每周大概三十个广告。

Call it 30 ads a week.

对。

Yeah.

每周四十个广告。

40 ads a week.

对。

Yeah.

你们有没有在推特上看到有人讨论这个？

Have you guys seen this being discussed on Twitter?

我觉得大家的看法完全分成了两派。

I feel like I feel like people are absolutely split.

一边是这些人。

You've got these people.

我觉得亚历克斯这周在采访里说过，他可能每周做15条，也可能说1500条。

I think Alex said this week in an interview, I think he's doing 15 he might have said 1,500 a week.

总之是多得离谱，量大得惊人。

It was some obscene amount of ads, just extremely high volume.

另一边呢，正逐渐冒出一股声音，说流量根本是假的。

And then you've got this growing sort of faction on the other side who's like volume is a myth.

根本没用。

Doesn't help.

真正重要的是精心打磨的广告，其实那些产量不高的人反而赢了。

What you need is like finely crafted ads and like it's actually the people not producing all that many that are winning.

是的。

Yeah.

这其实就是个阶段问题。

It's just a phases thing.

完全取决于你公司所处的阶段。

It just, like, depends on the phase of your business.

听你聊起刚起步时做的那几件事，真的挺让人惊讶的，因为那套方法跟我第一年在HexClad时用的几乎一模一样。

Like, it's it's kinda crazy, Luka, hearing you talk about your your first few levers you pulled because I those that was actually, like, maybe the same exact playbook in my first year at HexClad.

不是说2022年就该照着第一步来。

Not, like in 2022 is like step one.

到底什么才算好？

How are like, what is good look like?

我们做这些决策的依据到底是什么？

Like, why are we making any decisions we're making?

那时候根本没什么框架可言。

And like, there was no framework for that.

所以我们当时在想，我们的综合合并目标是什么？

So it was like, what are our blended merge targets?

我们该怎么用多点归因工具来衡量广告渠道的效果？

Like, how do we measure ad channels using like a multi touch attribution tool?

这些都属于第一阶段的工作。

Like that was phase one.

接下来第二阶段就是大量投放广告。

And then phase two was shots on that.

听起来不错。

Like, cool.

这可是个三十亿美元的品牌，但他们的广告其实一般，投放量也不大。

This is a this is like a 20 it's like a $3,040,000,000 dollar brand, but, like and the ads are okay, but they're not launching that many.

我觉得在2023年，或者更早的2022年，当HexClad成长为十亿美元级品牌的时候，用的也是同一套方法。

So, like, I think in 2023 when HexClad or 2022 when HexClad, like, became a 9 figure brand, like, it was the same playbook.

就是得不停地生产更多广告。

It was like, we need to be producing more ads.

科纳经常提到，要解锁那些新的高峰，然后最大化它们，我们用的还是完全一样的策略。

Like, Connor talks about this a lot of, like, unlocking new, like, peaks that you can that you can kinda maximize, and it was the same exact playbook.

就是得大量产出创意内容，让广告账户里有更多广告上线。

It was like, we need to produce a lot of creative and get more ads in the ad account.

但随着时间推移，我们慢慢意识到，其实不是这样。

And now over time, we've realized that it's like, no.

现在真正能打开新高峰的，是那些独一无二的内容。

Now it's like the new unique stuff that really unlocks those new peaks.

比如这支新来的达人广告，我们花了一个月写脚本，又花了一个月拍摄和剪辑。

Like, it's this new influencer ad that we spent a month scripting and another month producing and editing.

最后上线时出了十个版本，到现在已经砸了一千五百万进去，还给了这位创作者二十万美元左右。

And then we finally launched it with, like, 10 versions, and now we've spent a million and a half dollars on it, we paid this creator $200,000 or something.

整个打法其实一直在慢慢转变。

Like, it's it's just transitioned over time.

对吧？

Right?

以前是靠数据分析、大量投放，再加上创意上的用心。

Like, where it was analytical rigor, volume, and then creative intentionality.

现在呢，不再是单纯追求这两者了，而是要在数量和精准投入之间找平衡，敢于下大注。

And that and, like, not that and now it's a balance between volume and being intentional and taking big swings.

我想问问你，关于你们在创意测试方面的一些具体做法。

Can can I wanna ask you about some of the specifics in your creative testing.

你们以前可是往广告账户里扔了大量创意内容。

So, like, you were throwing a ton of creative in the ad account.

有没有哪一条创意突然爆了，让你觉得‘卧槽’？

Do you remember, like, any that really took off or, like, holy crap.

我们刚推了一个新创作者的广告，结果一夜之间，互动量暴增，转化成本也高得离谱。

Like like, we just launched this new creator ad and we it just immediately overnight is getting, like, insane engagement, insane CPAs.

你只能想，行吧。

You're like, okay.

我们可以把预算直接翻三倍。

We can we can triple spend.

我觉得作为广告投放者，我们都有过这种经历——至少我在广告公司的时候，你肯定也有类似的经验，你和康纳都做过代理业务，你们会把一条新广告扔进账户，过几天一看，转化成本直接砍半，那种感觉，真的会让人起鸡皮疙瘩。

I think we've all had that experience as ad buyers, at least me at the agency and probably you at the agency where, like, you and Connor, I mean, you had the agency background too where you, like, toss a new ad in the account and, like, you look at it in a few days and the CPA is half of what it is and you're like and you kinda get that, like, those goosebumps.

太棒了。

Like, alright.

接下来一两个月，我们完全可以把这个账户的预算翻三倍。

We're gonna be able to, like, triple spend in this account in the next month or two.

你在为True Sea Moss做大规模投放的时候，有没有哪条广告特别关键，一下子打开了局面？

Like, do you do you remember any of the ads that unlocked the account for True Sea Moss when you were playing this volume game?

有。

Yes.

我特别喜欢大量测试广告，尤其是从Rise过来之后，你去Rise的广告库看看就知道了。

And my appetite is very high when it comes to like, coming from Rise, like, there's I mean, you can go to Rise's ad library.

那里有成千上万条广告。

There's thousands of ads over there.

所以我有幸经常看到这些广告源源不断地涌进来。

So, I had that luxury, of course, seeing those come in often.

所以每当团队兴奋起来的时候，比如他们会说嘿。

So when the team would get excited, like, he hey.

像这样每月能抓到一两个爆款，我当时就想，不行。

Getting those winners, like, once a month, let's say, I was like, no.

我每个月需要六个这样的爆款。

I need, like, six of those a month.

大概就得是这个节奏才行。

That's kinda how it's how it needs to go.

不过，是的，就在三天前，我们刚上线了那款海苔电解质产品的广告，我现在特别兴奋，感觉它跑得太快了。

But, yes, we just had the one for our Sea Moss electrolytes, three days ago, and I'm just buzzing, how fast this is it's going.

获客成本降了，美洲地区的表现也提升了。你知道的，过去三天的花费比之前涨了25%，周环比当然也是大幅飙升，月环比也是。

CAC dropped, AMER improved, you know, spend is up 25% last three days versus previous, and week over week is, like, massive jump, of course, and month over month.

话说回来，嗯，好吧。

And that being said, like, okay.

对。

Yeah.

我们该怎么多搞点这样的成果呢？

Like, how can we generate more of those?

我觉得，只要玩量的策略，量大确实是个不错的选择。

And I do think that volume hands down, if you playing the volume game is a great proposition.

对吧？

Right?

我没说这不对，但我不同意那种说法，好像只要无视Meta的真实需求就行。

I don't think that is wrong, but I don't agree with the fact that you just have you just have to detach from the reality of, like, what Meta wants.

对吧？

Right?

我们刚经历了一次大更新。

We had this huge update.

如果它觉得你1500个里有80%都是同一个广告，就像赫莫齐说的，Meta也这么认为，那你觉得会发生什么？

If it's going to think that 80% of your 1,500, what Hermozzi says, Meta Meta thinks it's the same ad, guess what's gonna happen?

它根本不会触达新用户，因为系统会以为是同一个广告，然后在你的漏斗里循环播放。

It's not gonna reach new people because it's gonna think it's the same ad, and it's gonna start looping in your funnel.

但不是说这个转化漏斗。

But funnel no.

我不是在讲那些访问过你网站的人。

I'm not talking about the funnel people of people who visit on your website.

还有另一批人，他们根本没点过你的广告。

There's a whole another funnel of people, right, we're talking about who are not have never even clicked on your ad.

对吧？

Right?

所以它就一直在那儿打转。

So so it's gonna it's gonna circle around there.

永远触达不了新用户。

It's never gonna reach new people.

所以你真正该做的，是更有策略一些。

So what you actually need to do is, like, be more strategic.

这游戏跟以前一样，又升级了。

It's just a game has as always, it has evolved, again.

所以现在光看流量数量是远远不够的，我就是这个意思。

So now just focusing on the volume is just not good enough, what I'm what I'm saying.

我觉得，康纳，你好多期之前提到过，你们是怎么调整这个策略的。

And I think, you know, Connor, you mentioned something that you a lot of episodes back that how you guys changed that strategy.

Richpanel 的首席执行官预测，自己公司的 SaaS 产品将损失 90% 的收入，而他本人正在打造能取代它的产品。

Richpanel CEO just predicted his own SaaS product will lose 90% of its revenue, and he's the one building what will kill it.

他们相信，AI 代理将彻底取代传统的客服工具。

They are betting that AI agents will replace traditional support tools entirely.

不需要仪表盘，不需要账号，也不需要工作流。

No dashboards, no seats, no workflows.

那他们到底推出了什么？

So what did they ship?

一个能端到端全自动处理客户支持的 AI 代理。

An autonomous AI agent that handles customer support from end to end.

自动读取订单数据、处理退款、更新物流，全程无需人工介入。

Reading order data, issuing refunds, updating shipments without a human ever touching it.

这意味着你可以用更低的成本组建更精简的客服团队，同时实现全天候即时处理工单。

It means you can run a faster, leaner support team at a fraction of the cost while resolving tickets instantly twenty four seven.

Richpanel 正在主动淘汰自己的现有业务，只为打造品牌客服与体验的未来。

Richpanel is cannibalizing their own business to build the future of CX and support for brands.

因为如果他们不做，别人也会做。

Because if they don't, someone else will.

去 richpanel.com 看看他们在做什么，了解如何今天就开始自动化你的整个客服流程。

Go check out what they're building at richpanel.com and learn how you can automate your entire support operation today.

现在我觉得挺有意思的一件事，是创意供应链的量化指标和数据分析。

One thing that I think is interesting right now is metrics and analytics of the creative supply chain.

之前有另一个品牌发给我一份资料，我特别欣赏他们做的一点：他们把广告投放量和广告支出做了对比分析。我们后来也照着做了，结果发现，对于那些我们经营时间更长的品类，可以加大广告投入，这就像康纳说的，我们已经处在更成熟的阶段，清楚什么样的内容才是爆款。

And I was sent a deck a while back by another brand, and one of the things that I loved that they did was they were mapping like amount of ads delivered versus ad spend, and so we started doing that, and what we found is that we can spend more on ads for the categories that we've been selling longer, and that's because, to Connor Rolain's point, we were like further down the maturation curve because we're able to say, hey, we kind of know what winners look like.

所以我们现在能更系统地规划策略。

We can be more methodical in our approach here.

但对于一些新领域，比如旅游，去年我研究的时候发现，我们必须先大量生产内容，再减少广告投放，因为还处在探索阶段，得先搞清楚哪些卖点、角度和创意能打出来，之后才能转向更高效的模式，最终实现每条广告的投入产出比最大化。

For some, like a new category, for something like travel, when I was looking at this last year, we've got to overproduce content to spend fewer ads because we're in a more exploratory phase, and we need to identify what the value props, what are the angles, and what are the concepts that are going to be winning angles here so that we can move into a more methodical approach, and ultimately get more ad spend per ad created.

所以我觉得，我们这里说的正是这一点。

So I think that's what we're hitting here.

不过卢卡，我有个问题想问你，查德·贾尼斯上过《我的第一百万》节目，而Grooms在搭建独立转化路径方面做得实在太出色了。

But one question I have for you, Luka, is Chad Janis was on My First Million, and Groons has just done a fantastic job of building out these like independent funnels.

简直不可思议，光是grooms.co这个网站，他们就为纤维、整体健康、妈妈群体等各种人群都设计了清晰的转化路径。

Like in an insane way, like just on grooms.co, they have all these clear funnels, whether it's fiber or holistic health or you know, people, moms or whatever it is, all these different funnels.

他们甚至已经做到新推出的品牌都独立建站了，对吧？

They've gone to the point where the new brands they've launched are their own websites, right?

他们可能是我们见过的最细分的品牌了。

They're probably like the most segmented brand we've seen.

但我并不想多谈品牌细分，因为这跟True Sea Moss的情况不相关。

But I don't want to talk the segmentation of brands, I know that that's not applicable to True Sea Moss.

我很好奇，你们在为不同价值主张和转化路径打造内容时，是怎么一步步发展出自己的方法的？

I'm curious how your guys' approach has developed around building concepts for different value prop and funnels.

我猜大家买海藻的原因五花八门。

I imagine people are buying Sea Moss for all sorts of different reasons.

那在创意和广告投放方面，你们是怎么支持的？

How do you support that on a creative and and media buying end?

对。

Yes.

我们之前聊过Meta，大概就是八二开的比例。

So the we talked about Meta, kinda what drove like, we're when we talk about Meta, it's like 8020.

但那个部分我们还没说到，接下来就要讲了。

We're we haven't even touched that, which is the we're about to talk about.

对吧？

Right?

比如落地页测试和转化优化。

Like, landing page testing, CRO.

这些工作其实一直在进行，而且现在做到的深度是以前从未有过的。

That that has been going on, which is which was never done before to an extent that we're doing right now.

我们会为不同人群打造专属的落地页，不管是针对肠道健康、GLP-1管理，还是减压需求，各种不同的使用场景，这部分业务现在都由营销团队专门负责。

So building those landing pages that are specific to the audience, like whether that's gut or supporting your GLP one journey or helping with your stress, whatever that that is, supporting you in all sorts of ways, that is a whole different part of the business that marketing team is taking care of.

明白吧？

Alright?

这一点肯定是有的。

So that is going on for sure.

但说到扩大需求，没错，Meta 会承担主要的推动力。

But when we're talking about scaling demand, yes, the Meta is going to do the heavy lifting over there.

不过我们关注的是，我先快速回到 Meta 这个话题。

But there's what we look at is I'm gonna quickly jump to the back to the Meta conversation.

我们看的是，比如某个特定产品在账户里的表现。

What we look at is in the account, let's say, for a set product.

对吧？

Right?

我们之前用过哪些广告？

What like, what are the old ads that we have?

当然，命名和佣金一直都是非常关键的。

Then, of course, naming commission is a very big deal as always.

那具体是哪些文案呢？

So, like, what are the message?

比如说，昨天我们花了十万美元。

Like, if we take, like, $100,000 yesterday.

对吧？

Right?

那我们在这组文案和那组文案之间，各花了百分之多少？

So, like, how much percent we spent on, like, this messaging versus that messaging?

那组文案的点击率是多少？

What was the hook rate on that?

每周的留存率又是多少？

What was the hold rate on that on a weekly basis?

这样我们才能评估：当前这个漏斗里，我们产生的曝光量中，到底是哪条文案拿走了大部分流量？

So that we can then assess, okay, from that funnel that is going on right now, impressions that we're generating, what is the leading line who's taking the lion's share of those impressions?

我们主打的文案到底有哪些？

And, like, what are the messages that we're leading with?

对吧？

Right?

那谁在把新用户引到我们的漏斗里？

So who is getting us new people into our funnel?

然后我们怎么通过落地页来配合，全程引导他们了解产品？

And then how are we supporting that with the landing pages, like educating them throughout throughout the journey?

毕竟，海藻胶到底是个啥东西？

Because, like, what on earth is Sea Moss?

没多少人知道。

Like, not a lot of people.

我不确定。

I don't yes.

能触达那些从小就开始吃海藻胶的人确实不错，比如父母一直当天然疗法给他们吃的那种。

It's it's great to reach people who've been taking Sea Moss a lot, you know, when they're a kid, when your their parents have been been giving them as, like, a natural remedy or whatever.

但另一方面，如果我想把这个生意从一亿多做到一百亿，肯定得去争取其他营养品品牌用户的预算。

But but at the same time, like, if I'm going to build this thing, like, for, you know, from 140 to half 1,000,000,000 to 1,000,000,000, for sure, need to, reach out to people and take some wallet share share of wallet from other nutritional brands that they're spending their money on.

对吧？

Right?

如果你在吃绿粉，也在吃初乳，那我当然也希望你能把那笔钱花在海藻上。

If you're taking your greens powder, if you're taking your colostrums, like, well, I'm I'm for that dollar reaching for that dollar as well.

所以我必须得把这部分教育工作做扎实。

So I need to do that education piece for sure.

这东西确实会让很多人觉得难以接受，毕竟这到底是个啥？

It's it because it's going to be very polarizing to a lot of people because what is this thing?

你想想看。

Imagine this.

现在我们对绿粉已经习以为常了。

Right now, we're very we're native to what is a green powder.

十五年前，谁懂什么是绿粉？

Fifteen years ago, what on earth is green powder?

对吧？

Right?

然后你去看看AG One最初的官网，他们也经历了一段不小的转变。

And then you look at AG One's first website, they had to do go through a journey as well.

但现在你去全食超市或者任何一家店，都能看到绿粉有自己的货架。

But now every you go to Whole Foods or any type of store, green powder has its own shelf.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们现在的目标是，怎么把海藻胶产品，尤其是真海藻胶，打造成下一个主流的健康养生产品，以及需要做些什么才能实现。

So our goal right now is how can we make Sea Moss products and especially True Sea Moss a next mainstream health and wellness product and what it would take us to do that.

需要大量的教育普及、需求培育，再精准地触达目标人群。

A lot of education, a lot of demand generation, and then reaching the right audience with that.

我很欣赏你优化目标的方式，因为你本质上是在围绕结果来设计你的转化路径和广告。

So I I love the I love your approach to optimizing destinations like your because you're because basically what you're saying is you build your funnels and your ads really around outcome.

是的。

Hey.

我想改善我的肠道健康。

I wanna improve my gut health.

嘿。

Hey.

我正在用GLP-1类药物，需要营养支持。

I wanna I I'm on GLP-1s and I need nutritional support.

所以你们是根据产品能带来的具体效果来触达不同人群的。

So you're you're reaching different consumers by the outcome that your product can provide.

就像扎克·斯托克经常提到的那些案例。

I mean, like Zach Stock talks a lot about this with hollow.

对吧？

Right?

他卖骆马毛袜子，却能列出六七种不同的使用场景。

He sells alpaca fiber socks and there's like six or seven different kind of use cases that people would use that for.

他就是靠这些场景来扩大推广效果的。

And like, that's how he scales those funnels.

你们也是这么做的，只不过你们发现，过去三十天里，肠道健康相关的投放占了你们30%的预算。

So you guys take the same approach, but you're saying, hey, we we see that gut health took up 30% of our budget in the last in the last thirty days.

而这一点在所有结果中，投入占比是最大的。

And like, that's the biggest percent of spend by outcome.

咱们就从这儿入手吧，因为如果能通过落地页优化，把转化率提升个十到二十个百分点，收益远比只占总预算10%的GLP-1高得多。

Let's go start there because if we can optimize that destination with like a lander and improve the conversion rate by ten, fifteen, 20%, like that has the most upside compared to like GLP-one that only had maybe 10% of total spend.

你的意思是这样吗？

Is that what you're is that what you're saying?

对。

Yeah.

另外还有一层要考虑。

And then there's also the other layer.

你还可以在后面加一些增量测试。

You can layer in some incrementality testing behind it as well.

我可以跟Haus的Nick聊聊，看看他做过哪些成功的测试，当时我就想，嗯，有道理。

And I would speak with Nick from Haus and think of, like, some of the successful tests that he has done, and I was like, okay.

这儿有不少非常不错的案例。

There's some very good case studies over here.

那好吧。

And then so okay.

如果这个宣传角度占了40%，而且这是我们最主要的宣传方向，同时我们也看到，使用这个宣传语的访客转化率确实很高。

So if this angle messaging is taking, 40%, and that's kinda our leading message, and we see the near visitor percentage also on that messaging is very high.

明白了。

Okay.

我觉得我们在MTA和归因工具里看到的获客成本和回报数据，确实给出了某个数值。

I do think that the acquisition cost or or the return that we're seeing inside our MTAs, attribution tools, it's giving us, like, x output.

但我相信，那些工具告诉我们的结果，并不完全真实。

But I do believe whatever it's telling me over there is actually not that not actually true.

实际上，它的增量效果比系统显示的要大得多。

It's actually a far more incremental than what we think, what it feeds to the account.

就拿我们现在看到的海藻电解质这个爆款来说，表现真的很不错。

So because, like, this winner that we're just seeing right now on with, Sea Moss electrolytes, Great.

它的表现非常出色。

It's it's we're seeing great performance on it.

对吧？

Right?

但其他广告在数据表现上就没那么好了。

But there are other ads are not as good in terms of numbers.

不过我们更愿意在这些广告上多投钱，哪怕MTA工具显示的回报率低个10%左右，但它们能带来质量高得多的用户，最终提升整个账户的运转效率。

But there we much rather spend money on those, take a maybe 10% hit on the return inside MTA, what it's giving us, but it's gonna bring a lot better people to entire account, and the it will, rise entire increase the account velocity in the end.

所以我们现在在Meta平台上加了一些增量测试，以便更清楚地了解到底该主打哪个信息点。

So then now we're layering in, of course, some incremental testing within, you know, inside Meta so that we can under better understand what is the message that we should be leading with.

这不再只是随便扔一堆创意、然后盲目放大效果了，现在我们变得非常系统化——毕竟现在触达新用户越来越难，数据和归因分析也变得越来越复杂，这又是另一个话题了。

So it's not only so we come from, like, you know, throwing a lot of creatives and then just, like, scaling whatever in whatever ways now being very methodical of because now, of course, reaching new people is becoming more challenging, and, data and measurement, of course, which is a whole another conversation, becomes more and more challenging as well.

明白了。

Okay.

这真的很有趣，非常实用、可操作。

So that's that's really interesting, like very actionable tactical.

说实话，你刚才说你并没有按先后顺序一步步来，但听你讲的时候，感觉你其实就是这样做的。

Honestly, you said you didn't really have like a, I did this first, this second, this third, but when you were actually saying it, it it kind of did come across that way.

我觉得你刚才讲的这些真的很实用，特别是关于怎么从广告层面优化Meta账户，再往下延伸到转化漏斗，思路很清晰。

I think that was actually some really good actionable stuff on how you, like, thought about improving the meta account from the ad level and then moving down funnel and saying, alright.

很好。

Great.

现在我们已经有了一批表现不错的广告了。

We've got so a bunch of winning ads now.

接下来该怎么优化点击后的用户体验？

How can we optimize the post click experience?

做营销运营的朋友们，我想请大家重新思考一下购买后的环节。

Marketing operators, I wanna challenge how you think about post purchase.

如果把视角拉远，购买后体验不是某个具体手段，而是一整套体系。

If you zoom out, post purchase isn't a tactic, it's a system.

它包括你的购物车设计、结账流程、一键加购功能，还有怎么提升客单价、每会话收入和每会话利润。

It's your cart, your checkout logic, your one click upsells, how you increase AOV, revenue per session, profit per session.

它也包括你的订单确认页面。

It's your confirmation pages.