2026年各州收紧SNAP福利规定

2026年最大的经济故事会是什么？

What will be the big economic story of 2026?

我们的专家们来猜一猜。

Our experts take a guess.

以及2025年共和党标志性的立法胜利将如何改变数百万人购买杂货的方式。

And how the GOP's signature legislative win of 2025 will change how millions of people shop for groceries.

来自美国公共媒体，这里是《市场》。

From American Public Media, this is Marketplace.

在华盛顿特区，我是金伯利·亚当斯，代替凯·里斯达尔。

In Washington DC, I'm Kimberly Adams in for Kai Risdall.

今天是星期五。

It's Friday.

很高兴在1月2日与你同行。

Good to have you along on this January 2.

我们知道2025年经济形势动荡不安。

We know that 2025 was a whirlwind in the economy.

从关税到《一项宏伟法案》，再到政府停摆等等。

From the tariffs to the One Big Beautiful Bill Act to the shutdown and more.

让我们回顾过去一年，并展望未来，有来自MS Now的凯瑟琳·兰佩尔和《纽约时报》的安娜·斯旺森。

Let's look back at the year behind and forward a bit to the year ahead with Katherine Rampell of MS Now and Anna Swanson of The New York Times.

嘿，你们两位。

Hey, you two.

嘿，金伯利。

Hey, Kimberly.

新年快乐。

Happy New Year.

新年快乐。

Happy New Year.

所以，姑且假设2025年的重大经济事件是关税和不确定性。

So let's just say, for argument's sake, that the big economic stories of 2025 were the tariffs and uncertainty.

欢迎补充其他内容。

Feel free to add to the list.

但你对2026年我们将关注什么有什么预测？

But what's your prediction for what we're gonna be watching in 2026?

安娜，我们先听你说。

Anna, let's start with you.

我觉得‘不确定性’这个词对2026年来说依然非常贴切，尤其是我所关注的贸易领域。

So I still think uncertainty is still a very valid word for 2026, especially in the area that I cover, which is trade.

我们正等待最高法院对总统关税决定的裁决。

We're looking at the supreme court decision over the president's tariffs.

但另一个可能的关键词可能是‘繁荣’或‘崩溃’，指的是人工智能。

But, you know, another contender is probably boom or maybe bust referring to AI.

也许我违反了你要求用单个词的规则，但毫无疑问，去年人工智能的繁荣已成为一股巨大的力量，推动了经济数据、提振了股市，让美国人感觉更富有，并普遍掩盖了经济中的许多不确定性和其他弱点。

Maybe I'm breaking the rules with the single word word you wanted there, certainly, you know, the AI boom has been a huge force last year, lifting economic data, lifting the stock market, making Americans feel richer, and just generally paper papering over a lot of uncertainty and other weakness in the economy.

现在人们越来越担心，这种势头能否在明年持续下去。

And there is growing concern about whether, you know, that will be sustained in the next year.

凯瑟琳，你呢？

Catherine, what about you?

你怎么看？

What's your take?

我会说，无论我们喜不喜欢，不确定性都会持续存在。

I would say uncertainty sticking around whether we like it or not.

同样，还有可负担性的问题。

Likewise, the affordability conversation.

还有中期选举，这虽然不是纯粹的经济议题，但肯定会受到未来几个月经济走势的影响。

And then there's the midterms, which is not an economic story per se, but it will certainly be influenced by the economic trajectory over the next few months.

而且我觉得，我们这个节目可能涉及的所有话题，都会成为今年即将到来的选举的政治素材。

And, you know, I I I think that basically all of the topics that we're likely to land on this show, are fodder for either political campaign coming up this year.

我想稍后再回过头来谈可负担性问题。

I wanna come back to affordability in a minute.

但接着谈谈关税，安娜，我知道你们《纽约时报》一直在报道特朗普政府所达成的各种协议。

But following up on tariffs, Anna, I know that you all over at the New York Times have been writing about all of the deals the Trump administration has been making.

去年我们一直关注这些广泛而反复无常的关税，时而实施，时而取消，那么今年会是协议之年吗？

If we were so focused last year on all these, like, sweeping tariffs and the tariffs being on and on on again, off again, off, you know, is this gonna be the year of the deals?

当然，目前仍有一些与各国正在进行的协议。

So there are definitely still some deals that are in the works with various countries.

这些协议正在持续推进中。

You know, those are rolling forward.

我完全预计政府在未来几周和几个月内会宣布更多此类协议。

I fully expect the administration to announce more of those in the coming weeks and months.

不过，最值得关注的大协议之一是《美墨加协定》的重新谈判。

One of the biggest deals to watch out for, though, is the renegotiation of The US Mexico Canada agreement.

这在我明年的清单上是一个非常重要的议题。

That's a really big one on my list this coming year.

他们需要就是否改进或继续这项协议进行磋商。

They're required to meet about whether or not they wanna improve or continue that pact.

因此，如果这项协议失败，总统一直威胁要退出这项协定。

And so, you know, if that falls through, the president has always kind of threatened to weave that agreement.

政府已表明他们希望保留该协议，但希望对其进行一些修改。

The administration has signaled they they want to preserve it, but they'd like to make some changes to it.

如果这个协议失败，那对美国经济来说将是一个巨大的打击。

So if that were to fall through, that would be a really big deal for The US economy.

当然，另一件事是即将来临的关于关税的最高法院案件，我相信我们稍后可以讨论。

And then the other thing, of course, is this, supreme court case over tariffs coming up, which I'm sure we can talk about later.

但相比之下，这比今年的贸易协议更重要。

But that is, you know, a big more so than the year of the deals.

如果最高法院判决总统败诉，那今年就会成为最高法院案件之年。

If the supreme court votes against, the president, it will be the year of that, court case.

那我们现在就来谈谈这个吧。

Well, let's talk about that now.

我的意思是，你认为那里会发生什么？

I mean, what do you think is gonna go down there?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这真的很难预测。

So, you know, I think it is really a toss-up.

我认为没有人能确定，但大法官们似乎对总统的论点和11月的口头辩论持相当怀疑的态度。

I don't think anyone can be certain, but the justices seem quite skeptical about, the president's arguments and oral arguments in November.

如果他们确实批准了总统的关税，支持总统以这种方式发布关税的权力，那将赋予总统极大的权力，不仅用于关税，还可能以其他方式利用这项有争议的紧急法案，并接管宪法赋予国会的一些权力和权威。

And if they do, you know, approve, the president's tariffs, uphold the president's ability to issue tariffs in this way, that would really hand the president a lot of power to use this emergency law that's in question, not just for tariffs, but potentially in other ways and to assume some of the powers and the authority that the constitution gives to congress.

因此，这又回到了一个问题：法院是否会站出来制约行政分支的权力？

So it gets back to this question of, you know, will the courts stand up and check, the power of the executive branch?

总统一直在试图扩大这一权力，试图行使比以往总统更广泛的权力，而今年的关税案件将使这一问题变得尤为突出。

The president has been trying to, you know, stretch that, trying to exert much broader authority than past presidents, and that will really, you know, come to the forefront in this case over tariffs this year.

而且，凯瑟琳，这正好与你之前提到的中期选举至关重要的观点相呼应。

Well, and, Catherine, that relates right back to what you were saying earlier about the midterms really mattering.

因为如果法院允许总统在关税问题上为所欲为，那么国会的构成就真的变得至关重要了。

Because if the courts let the president go his way on tariffs, then it really matters what congress looks like.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

目前，国会一直相对愿意让行政分支接管比历史上更为广泛的权力。

Right now, congress has been relatively willing to let the executive branch subsume a lot more power, exercise a lot more power than has been historically the case.

这对关税来说是真实的，但对其他许多权力也是如此，包括财政权的其他方面。

That's true for tariffs, but also true for a lot of other powers, including other aspects of power of the purse.

我们有一个行政部门，例如，扣留了国会拨款的资金，根本不去花这些钱。

We have an executive branch that has been impounding money, for example, basically not spending money that has been appropriated by congress.

因此，共和党显然同时控制着白宫和立法机构的两院。

So the Republican Party obviously controls both the White House and the legislative branch, both branch both houses in the legislative branch.

因此，对于这些打破常规的行为，几乎没有多少抵制。

And, as a result, there hasn't been a ton of pushback for some of these some of this norm breaking, let's say.

如果民主党最终重新掌控其中一个议院，更可能是众议院而非参议院，但两者都掌握的可能性较小，你可能会看到更多摩擦。

If Democrats end up retaking either chamber, more likely the house than the senate, but both, you know, maybe a long shot, you might see a lot more friction.

你可能会看到立法机构更积极地试图收回那些宪法赋予国会的权力。

You might see a lot more of an attempt, from the legislative branch to retake some of those congressionally excuse me, constitutionally, granted powers.

凯瑟琳，我想继续和你聊聊我们一开始提到的可负担性问题。

Catherine, I wanna stay with you on that topic we mentioned at the beginning, affordability.

我们稍后会请卡拉·哈维尔谈谈‘一项宏伟法案’带来的重大变化。

We've got Carla Javier coming up in a bit talking about some of the snap changes from the one big beautiful bill act.

许多人从现在开始看到健康保险保费急剧上涨。

Lots of folks are seeing spiking health insurance premiums starting now.

医疗补助削减即将来临。

Medicaid cuts are coming.

你预计这些社会安全网的变化会在经济的其他方面如何体现？

How do you expect to see these changes in the social safety net show up in the rest of the economy?

当然，如果你是那些在市场或个人交易所获得补贴保险的人，你的保费很可能会上涨。

Well, certainly, if you are among those who, for example, receives subsidized insurance on the marketplace, on on the individual exchange, you are very likely to see your premiums go up.

因此，在这个重大的可负担性问题上，如果你的医疗保健和健康保险真的能够续保，它们将变得便宜得多。

So on this big affordability question, your health care, your health insurance in the event is about to get a lot less affordable if in fact you were able to re up your insurance at all.

这是其中一个后果。

So that's one consequence.

对于那些处于边缘状态、可能担心失业、已经失业或从事低薪工作的人来说，他们的生活可能会变得更加不舒适，即使以前还算舒适，因为正如你所指出的，许多这些安全网项目将变得不那么容易获得，无论是由于行政负担增加等变化，还是因为明年即将实施的医疗补助削减，各州已被要求更频繁地重新审核人们的资格，这意味着会有更多的变动，更多符合条件的人可能会因错误而失去保险。

For people who are sort of more on the edge, who might be worried about job loss, who or who have experienced job loss, or who are in low wage jobs, their life is likely to get a bit less comfortable, if it was ever comfortable as well because many of these safety net programs, as you point out, will be, less available, will be more out of reach whether because of administrative burden type changes, for example, you know, forget the the actual Medicaid cuts that are coming next year, states have been ordered to recheck people's eligibility more frequently, which means that there'll be more churn and more people who are eligible who are likely to incorrectly lose their insurance.

所以，这是目前在保障名单上的人的情况。

So so that's people who are on the rolls right now.

如果我们真的陷入衰退，当然，希望不会如此。

If in fact we have a recession, which, you know, knock on wood, we will not.

但正如安娜刚刚提到的，这很有可能发生，特别是取决于你对这场人工智能热潮或泡沫的预测。

But as as Anna just mentioned, you know, it could very well be the case, particularly depending on what your crystal ball says about this AI boom slash bubble.

将会有更多人受到这些政策变化的影响。

There will be a lot more people, who would be potentially affected by those policy changes.

明年有很多值得期待的事情。

Lots to look forward to in the year ahead.

来自MS Now的凯瑟琳·兰佩尔和来自《纽约时报》的安娜·斯旺森。

Katherine Rampell of MS Now and Anna Swanson of The New York Times.

谢谢你们两位。

Thank you both.

谢谢。

Thank you.

谢谢，金伯利。

Thanks, Kimberly.

今天在华尔街，我们顺利度过了新年的第一个交易日。

On Wall Street today, we made it through the first trading day of the year.

当我们分析数据时，会提供详细信息。

We'll have the details when we do the numbers.

正如我们刚才提到的，新年带来了全国各地生效的新法律和法规，其中包括与去年《一项宏伟法案》相关的部分。

Like we were just talking about, the New Year comes with new laws and regulations kicking in around the country, including some tied to last year's One Big Beautiful Bill Act.

我们之前提到的例子是关于补充营养援助计划（SNAP）的变更。

The example we were mentioning changes to SNAP, the supplemental nutrition assistance program.

该法律修改了联邦食品援助的资格标准和工作要求，并将更多管理该计划的成本转移给各州。

The law modified eligibility and work requirements for federal food assistance and shifted more of the cost of administering the program to the states.

从昨天开始，印第安纳州、爱荷华州、内布拉斯加州、犹他州和西弗吉尼亚州这几个州开始实施特朗普政府的一项优先政策，限制使用SNAP福利购买美国农业部所说的非营养食品。

Now starting yesterday, a handful of states, Indiana, Iowa, Nebraska, Utah, and West Virginia started implementing one particular Trump administration priority, restricting the use of SNAP benefits to purchase what the USDA calls non nutritious items.

具体含义因州而异，但通常包括苏打水和糖果。

What that means exactly varies by state, but it often includes sodas and candy.

到今年年底，至少有18个州将以此方式限制SNAP福利的使用。

By the end of the year, at least 18 states will restrict the use of SNAP benefits this way.

市场平台的卡拉·哈维尔调查了这在结账时会是什么样子。

Marketplaces' Carla Javier looked into what this will look like at the checkout line.

目前，人们使用SNAP电子福利转账（EBT）卡购买商品 already 有限制。

There are already limits on what people can buy with their SNAP electronic benefit transfer or EBT cards.

你不能用EBT购买烟草。

You can't buy tobacco with EBT.

你不能用EBT购买酒精产品，也不能用EBT购买热食。

You can't buy alcohol products with EBT, and you can't buy hot foods with EBT either.

这是国家便利商店协会的玛格丽特·曼农。

That's Margaret Mannion with the National Association of Convenience Stores.

如果有人开车到加油站，想用EBT卡买一包坚果和一些肉干，但又加了一瓶啤酒呢？

If someone were to pull up to a gas station and try to use that EBT card to buy a package of nuts and some jerky and then added a beer too?

销售点系统会提示：‘此商品不符合EBT使用资格。’

The point of sale system would flag, oh, this item is not EBT eligible.

因此，收银员必须说：‘您还有其他付款方式吗？’

And so then the person behind the checkout would have to say, you know, do you have another way of paying for this?

某物是否含有酒精，这一点非常明确。

Whether something does or doesn't have alcohol is pretty cut and dry.

但调味苏打水算不算碳酸饮料？

But is a flavored seltzer a soda?

那加糖的饮料呢？

What about a sweetened beverage?

燕麦棒算糖果吗？

Is a granola bar candy?

在一些州，所有这些都将受到限制。

In some of the states, all will be restricted.

在其他州，只限制部分。

In others, just some.

曼农表示，这正是事情变得复杂的地方。

Mannion says this is where things are going to get complicated.

对于我们的跨州运营商来说，在18个不同的合规体系中应对‘碳酸饮料’或‘糖果’在每个州的不同定义，将是一个巨大的挑战。

For our multistate operators, it's gonna be a huge challenge to navigate 18 different compliance systems where soda or candy means something different in every one of those states.

本周早些时候，美国农业部宣布了为期90天的宽限期。

Earlier this week, the USDA announced a ninety day grace period.

但之后，曼尼恩表示，零售商若未能合规，后果可能非常严重。

But after that, Mannion says the stakes of getting it right can be quite high for retailers.

他说，如果被发现不符合规定，将会收到警告信。

Saying if you're found out of compliance, you'll get a warning letter.

如果再次发生，美国农业部可能会强制将零售商退出该项目，这意味着零售商将完全无法接受SNAP支付。

If it happens again, the USDA could issue an involuntary withdrawal from the program, meaning the retailer would no longer be able to accept SNAP payments at all.

谢莉·弗普卢格是国家食品与农业政策中心的高级研究员，也是前美国农业部经济学家。

Shelly Verplug is a senior fellow at the National Center for Food and Agricultural Policy and a former USDA economist.

零售商可能会认为参与该项目的成本不值得，因此选择退出该项目。

Retailers may decide it's not worth the, cost of participating, so they may leave the program.

弗普卢格表示，作为《一项宏大美好法案》实施的一部分，SNAP还将迎来更多变更。

Verplug says even more changes to SNAP are coming as part of the implementation of the One Big Beautiful Bill Act.

这些限制措施正值各州被要求承担更多SNAP项目整体管理成本的时候。

These restrictions are coming at a time when states will be asked to bear a greater burden in the cost of administering the SNAP program overall.

弗普卢格表示，她将密切关注这些购买限制是否对SNAP参与者的饮食和健康产生实质性影响。

Verplug says she'll be watching to see if the purchasing restrictions have a meaningful impact on SNAP participants' diets and health.

毕竟，参与者总是可以用自己的钱购买这些被限制的非营养食品和饮料。

After all, participants could always use their own money to purchase the restricted non nutritious foods and drinks.

我是卡罗拉·哈维耶尔，来自《市场》。

I'm Carla Javier for Marketplace.

接下来

Coming up

这是一台了不起的设备。

It's an amazing piece of equipment.

它可能一次一车地改变采矿业。

And it could change the mining industry one truckload at a time.

但首先，我们来看一下数据。

But first, let's do the numbers.

道琼斯工业平均指数上涨319点，涨幅三分之二个百分点，收于48,382点。

The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose 319 points, two thirds of 1% to close at 48,382.

纳斯达克指数下跌了六点，我们称之为持平，收于23,235点。

The Nasdaq leaked six points, let's call it flat, to finish at 23,235.

标普500指数上涨了12点，涨幅百分之零点二，收于6,858点。

And the S and P 500 found 12 points, two tenths percent, to end at sixty eight fifty eight.

本周，道琼斯指数下跌了百分之零点七。

For the week, the Dow lost seven tenths percent.

纳斯达克指数下跌了百分之一点六。

The Nasdaq fell one and six tenths percent.

标普500指数下跌了百分之一点一。

The S and P 500 dipped one and one tenths percent.

原本预计现在就要对进口软垫家具、厨房橱柜和梳妆台征收的关税，白宫宣布将推迟到明年的这个时候。

Those tariffs that were supposed to hit imported upholstered furniture, kitchen cabinets, and vanities right about now, the White House announced that they're postponed until this time next year.

我们拭目以待，但这一公告对一些零售商来说是利好消息，它们的供应链延伸至中国和越南。

We'll see, but the announcement was good news for some retailers supply chains extend into China and Vietnam.

Wayfair股价上涨了百分之六点一。

Wayfair added six and one tenths percent.

威廉姆森家居上涨了百分之五点二。

Williams Sonoma rang up five and two tenths percent.

RH，你可能还记得它以前叫Restoration Hardware，上涨了近百分之八。

And RH, you may remember it as Restoration Hardware, found just short of 8%.

债券下跌。

Bonds fell.

十年期国债收益率上升至4.19%，您正在收听《市场》节目。

The yield on the ten year t note rose to 4.19%, and you're listening to marketplace.

本《市场》播客由Intuit QuickBooks赞助。

This marketplace podcast is supported by Intuit QuickBooks.

在新的一年里，势头至关重要。

In a new year, momentum matters.

对于中小企业领导者而言，每一个明智的决策都取决于现金流，它决定了您今天的处境以及明天如何前进。

For small business leaders, every smart decision comes down to cash flow, which determines where you stand today and how you move forward tomorrow.

借助Intuit QuickBooks强大的财务管理解决方案，获得清晰的洞察与掌控力，将现金流转化为自信的增长。

With Intuit QuickBooks' powerful money management solutions, gain the clarity and control to turn cash flow into confident growth.

QuickBooks 节省您的时间，并提供实时洞察。

QuickBooks saves you time and yields real time insights.

使用 QuickBooks，可根据现有现金、即将发生的支出和付款来安排账单。

With QuickBooks, schedule bills based on cash on hand, upcoming expenses, and payments.

他们的自动化资金工具减少了手动输入和错误，让您全年井然有序并随时准备报税。

Their automated money tools reduce manual entry and errors, keeping you organized and tax ready all year.

当机会来临时，申请融资。

Apply for funding when opportunity strikes.

了解更多，请访问 quickbooks.com/money。

Learn more at quickbooks.com/money.

请访问 quickbooks.com/money。

That's quickbooks.com/money.

条款适用。

Terms apply.

资金转账服务由 Intuit Payments Inc. 提供。

Money movement services are provided by Intuit Payments Inc.

经纽约州金融服务部许可为资金传输商。

Licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services.

这是 Marketplace。

This is Marketplace.

我是金伯利·亚当斯。

I'm Kimberly Adams.

特朗普政府对移民的严厉打击和遣返人数的增加，是2025年另一大新闻，并延续到了新的一年。

The Trump administration's crackdown on immigration and increase in deportations was another big story of 2025 that's carrying into the new year.

去年，美国与加纳达成了一项协议，基本上将加纳变成了美国遣返西非移民的中心。

Last year, The US and Ghana made an agreement that's essentially turned the country into a hub for West African deportees from The US.

大西洋两岸的加纳人都感受到了这一影响。

Ghanaians on both sides of the Atlantic are feeling the effect.

亚当·马霍尼是Capital B的记者，他报道了这个故事。

Adam Mahoney is a reporter at Capital b where he had the story.

感谢您的参与。

Thanks for joining us.

谢谢您邀请我。

Thanks for having me.

加纳与美国在遣返问题上达成了什么样的协议？

What kind of deal does Ghana have with The US when it comes to deportations?

加纳已与特朗普政府签署了一项第三方遣返协议，基本上接收来自一系列西非国家的遣返人员。

Ghana has signed a third country deportation agreement with the Trump administration where they are basically taking in deportees from a series of West African nations.

因此，非本国公民被遣送到加纳，关押在酒店和军事营地，却几乎没有得到任何关于他们身在何处、将被送往何方的信息。

So non native folks are being deported to Ghana and held in hotels and then military camps without really any understanding where they are, where they're going.

这些人曾经获得过美国的庇护权。

These are folks who, at one point, had been granted asylum in The United States.

因此，他们获得庇护后，本不应被遣返回原籍国。

So they're not legally, meant to be deported back to their home country after being granted asylum.

这成为特朗普政府规避法律的一种方式，将危机推到加纳的门口，而加纳则将这些人进一步推回他们的原籍国。

So this is a way for the Trump administration to to work around that legality, by kind of dumping the crisis at Ghana's doorsteps, and and Ghana has then been pushing these folks back to their home countries.

加纳接收这些人有什么动机？

What's the incentive here for Ghana to take these folks?

在这种情况下有点独特。

It's a little unique in this case.

其他一些非洲国家也曾签署过类似协议，并公开表示收到了美国政府的资金，但加纳并未获得任何财政资助。

There's been other African nations who have signed similar agreements and have come out and said that they've received money from the United States government, but Ghana has not received any financial funding for this agreement.

他们的总统已表示，这是他们泛非理想的一部分。

Their president has come out and said that this is a part of their, you know, their Pan African ideals.

所以他们在做这件事。

So they're they're doing this.

他们接受其他西非人，是为了帮助人们脱离美国拘留系统中可能极其恶劣的处境。

They're accepting other West Africans as a way to get folks out of, you know, maybe deplorable conditions in The US detention system.

但事实上，该国签署这项协议也是因为这减轻了加纳人前往美国的签证限制。

But in reality, the country has also signed the agreement because it has lessened some of the visa restrictions on Ghanaians attempting to get to The US.

因此，这对国内民众来说确实有一些好处。

So there is some benefit here for for folks in the country.

根据您对移民和海关执法数据的审查，今年西非人的驱逐人数确实大幅增加。

According to your own review of immigration and customs enforcement data, Deportations of West Africans have really ramped up this year.

这项协议在多大程度上、以何种方式促成了这一点？

How much and how is this deal contributing to it?

与拜登政府相比，今年非洲国民的驱逐人数增加了三倍以上。

Compared to the Biden administration, deportations of African nationals in general has has more than tripled this year.

我采访了加纳的律师和活动人士，他们实际上指出，现实中的重点并不在于驱逐人数。

I I spoke to to lawyers and activists in Ghana, and they actually made the point that they think in reality, it's not really about the numbers of of deportees.

从整体来看，今年被驱逐的非洲国民仅有3000多人，与我们看到的来自拉丁美洲和南美洲国家的数字相比微不足道。

In the grand scheme of things, it's been a little over 3,000 African nationals have been deported this year, which really pales in comparison to numbers we've seen from from Latin and in South American countries.

但这一举措的核心目的是向非洲民众表明，前往美国的旅程不值得。

But this push is really about showing folks in Africa that the journey is not worth it to The United States.

而对于生活在美国内的移民来说，人们认为这一举措是在暗示他们应该自行离境。

And and for folks living in The US who have who have migrated there, people think that this push is really about telling them that they should self deport.

正如你在报道中指出的那样，即使在拜登政府时期，黑人移民的驱逐率也与其他群体存在差异。

Well, and as you point out in your story, even under the Biden administration, you know, we were still seeing deportations of black migrants at different rates than other groups.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

种族差异早已存在于特朗普政府之前。

There's racial discrepancies that have, you know, predated the Trump administration.

非洲 nationals 占美国无证移民的约5%。

So African nationals make up about 5% of undocumented migrants in The United States.

但在拜登政府时期，他们占了驱逐人数的20%。

But under the Biden administration, they made up 20% of deportations.

我们看到，无论是哪个政府，针对黑人群体的犯罪化机制都在全面推行。

So we we've seen across the board kind of anti black mechanisms of of criminality being, enforced through, you know, both administrations.

你采访了美国和加纳那些感到被困住的人，有些人甚至躲在家里不敢出门。

You spoke to folks both in The United States and Ghana caught up in this feeling stuck, some of them hiding out in their homes here in The United States.

哪个故事最让你印象深刻？

What story stuck with you the most?

当我身处加纳时，我在市场上遇到一位名叫格拉迪斯的女性，我们聊到她在加纳，好的时候每天能赚几美元。

When I was in Ghana, I I met a woman named Gladys, at a market, and and, you know, we talked about the fact that, you know, in the in Ghana, she's making a couple of dollars a day on a good day.

她一直梦想带着她11岁的孩子移民到美国。

And she's always dreamed about migrating to The United States with her 11 year old child.

但在特朗普政府的打压下，她一直与美国的一些朋友保持联系，其中包括一位名叫雷蒙德的男子，他有家人，曾移居美国，试图建立某种稳定与安全的生活。

But under, you know, this push by the Trump administration, she's been in communication with some of her friends back in The US, including a man named Raymond who has a family and and and moved to The United States in attempt to kind of build some semblance of of stability and safety.

但在美国，他也一直躲在家里，不敢出门，害怕得不敢离开公寓。

But in The US, he's been hiding out in his apartment, too afraid to leave his home.

因此，远在加纳的她，也在经历着同样的恐惧。

So all the way back in Ghana, she's also living through those same fears.

对吧？

Right?

这抑制了她追求更好生活的愿望和能力。

It's it's stunting her desire and ability to to maybe build a better life for herself.

所以，看到大西洋两岸的这种协议如何深刻影响着每个人的生活，真的令人深思。

So it it was it was really telling to see just on both sides of the Atlantic how this agreement is is really shaping the lives of really everyone.

你在文章中强调的一个重要经济背景是，像格拉迪斯这样的人非常渴望离开本国，你还引用了一项调查，发现三分之二的受访者都想离开。

One of the big economic undercurrents that you highlight in your piece is that there's this big desire, like, with Gladys to leave the country, and you cited a survey that found, like, two thirds of the respondents wanted to leave.

为什么这么多人想离开呢？

Why do so many people want out?

这主要是因为国家的经济状况。

Really, it's the economic conditions, of the country.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，在首都阿克拉，即使你受过大学教育，每天可能也只能赚几美元，而且极有可能从事的不是自己的专业领域。

I mean so in in the capital city of Accra, you can be a college educated person and still be making a a couple of dollars a day and and most likely not be working in your own field.

我认识一个刚大学毕业、获得工程学位的年轻人，现在却在一家餐馆工作，每天通勤两小时去上班，赚几美元，因为他的专业领域根本不会给加纳人提供职位。

I spoke to a man who recently graduated from college with an engineering degree, and he now works at a restaurant, and then commutes two hours to get to that restaurant for a couple of dollars a day because jobs in his in his field, are not being given to Ghanaians, actually.

过去几年，大量外国投资公司涌入该国，尤其是中国企业和一些美国公司，这些职位现在都流向了外籍居民，而不是加纳本地人。

You know, there's been a plethora of foreign investment companies that have kind of flooded the country over the last couple of years, particularly, Chinese companies and a few American companies, where those jobs are now flowing to international residents rather than Ghanaians.

当加纳人回到加纳时，他们能期待什么呢？

What's waiting for folks, especially the Ghanaians, when they get back to Ghana?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这是个很好的问题。

I mean, think that's a that's a great question.

我采访了一位今年八月被驱逐的人，他就在被驱逐前一年刚在明尼苏达州买了一套房子，现在回到加纳，却完全没有工作前景。

I spoke to someone who was recently, deported in August who had just purchased a home in Minnesota a year before his deportation, and and he's back in Ghana with really no job prospects.

他现在和亲戚住在一起，低调隐匿。

He's living with a family member kind of lying low and and hiding.

这里根本就没有工作机会，这也解释了为什么加纳如此成为一个移民国家。

There's there's just not jobs for people, which contributes to the fact that it is such a migratory place.

你提到的那份调查，超过三分之二的加纳人表示想离开国家，但并不是所有人都想去美国或英国。

You know, that survey that we mentioned where over two thirds of Ghanaian say they wanna leave the country, not all of those folks are, you know, desiring to go to The United States or to England.

很多人的目标是非洲大陆内部的迁移，但其他非洲国家对加纳人的前景也并不乐观。

A lot of that is also migration within the African Continent, but it it is the prospects in other African nations are also not that good for for Ghanaians.

亚当·马奥尼是Capital B的记者，报道该政府移民政策对西非人的影响。

Adam Mahoney is a reporter at Capital b, writing about the impact of the administration's immigration policies on West Africans.

非常感谢您加入我们。

Thank you so much for joining us.

非常感谢邀请我。

Thanks so much for having me.

一定要去看看亚当的文章。

Definitely check out Adam's article.

但如果您想寻找更多阅读材料，本周《市场》团队将在我们的每日通讯中分享2025年读过的最佳书籍，该通讯每天工作日发布。

But if you're looking for more reading material, this week, the Marketplace staff is sharing the best books we read in 2025 in our daily newsletter, which comes out every weekday.

阅读最新一期内容，并在marketplace.org/subscribe上订阅《市场》每日简报。

Read the latest issue and sign up for the Marketplace daily rep at marketplace.org slash subscribe.

接下来这个故事，我们将前往明尼苏达州北部，那里是全国大部分铁矿石的开采地，开采规模巨大。

For this next story, we're headed to Northern Minnesota where most of the country's iron ore is mined and mined at a massive scale.

从绵延数英里的露天矿坑，到那些比普通公路上见到的卡车大得多的矿石运输车。

From open pits that can be miles long and ore hauled by giant trucks that dwarf what you usually see on the road.

明尼苏达公共电台的丹·克罗克报道了当地一座新建矿场，那里的运输车比以往任何时候都更大，甚至可以实现无人驾驶。

Dan Crocker of Minnesota Public Radio reports on a new mine under construction there where the trucks are bigger than ever and can be operated without drivers.

明尼苏达铁矿区的人们为他们的采矿传统感到自豪。

People on Minnesota's iron range are proud of their mining heritage.

问任何人，他们都会告诉你，这里开采的铁矿石被用来制造钢铁，帮助赢得了两次世界大战，这解释了为什么上个月数百人在寒冷中排队，聚集在位于纳什瓦克小镇的Mesabi Metallics公司总部外。

Ask anyone, and they'll tell you it was iron ore mined here that was used to make the steel that helped win two world wars, which helps explain why hundreds of people lined up in the cold last month in the tiny town of Nashwauk outside the headquarters of a company called Mesabi Metallics.

他们都渴望近距离看看新矿的巨型卡车。

They were all eager to get an up close look at the new mine's gigantic trucks.

这是一台令人惊叹的设备。

It's an amazing piece of equipment.

杰克·施密特正盯着一辆像两层楼一样大的亮黄色小松牌卡车。

Jake Schmidt is gawking at a bright yellow Komatsu brand truck the size of a two story house.

能把这么庞大的设备运到这里、重新组装并投入运行，真是工程上的壮举。

It's a real engineering feat to get that thing built in here and reassembled and going again.

附近，拉里·兰斯卡说，这使得他过去开过的旧卡车看起来像玩具。

Nearby, Larry Lanska says it makes older trucks like the ones he used to drive look like toys.

我以前在矿上工作过，但这是完全不同的规模。

Well, I used to work in the mines, but this is a whole different scale.

Mesabi Metallics的总裁拉里·萨瑟兰放下了一架梯子，以便人们爬进驾驶室。

Mesabi Metallics president Larry Sutherland lowers a staircase that's needed to climb into the cab.

这辆卡车单次可运输400吨岩石。

The truck can haul 400 tons of rock in a single load.

这几乎是明尼苏达州其他矿场使用的卡车运载量的近两倍。

That's nearly twice as much as the trucks used at other Minnesota mines.

而这些优势为我们Mesabi带来的好处是，能够运输更大的载荷，每吨物料的运输效率更高。

And the advantages it gives us here at Mesabi is hauling that bigger payload, it's more efficient per ton of material moved.

效率至关重要，因为这座矿场将与澳大利亚和巴西等地生产的廉价铁矿石竞争。

And efficiency is key because the mine will be competing against cheap iron ore produced in places like Australia and Brazil.

这些卡车还可以使用电力运行，矿场道路沿线已架设了架空电缆供电系统。

The trucks also can run on electricity, an electric trolley line set up along the mine's roads.

这减少了排放和燃料成本。

That reduces emissions and fuel costs.

最终，它们将不再需要驾驶员。

And eventually, they won't need drivers.

这些卡车已配备为自动驾驶模式。

These trucks are set up to run autonomously.

它们配备了传感器和通信网络，用于在矿区内导航。

They're equipped with sensors and communication networks to navigate the mine.

萨瑟兰表示，它们更具生产力且更安全。

Sutherland says they're more productive and safer.

与人工操作员相比，人有时难免会出错。

Versus an operator in there, it's human nature sometimes.

错误时有发生。

Mistakes happen.

而当车辆自动驾驶时，系统会安全地监控周围所有环境。

And with this engaged autonomously, safely watches all its surroundings.

自动驾驶卡车最早于2008年在西澳大利亚的偏远铁矿中进行测试。

Autonomous trucks were first tested in remote iron ore mines in Western Australia in 2008.

如今，全球已有近4000辆，其中超过一半在中国。

Now there are nearly 4,000 around the world, more than half of them in China.

沙布纳姆·杜斯贡表示，这一趋势预计将持续下去，尤其是在马萨比金属公司这样的新矿中。

And that trend is expected to continue, especially in new mines like Masabi Metallics, says Shabnam Dusgun.

她是科罗拉多矿业学院的采矿工程教授。

She's a mining engineering professor at the Colorado School of Mines.

你知道，如果你设计一座新矿，你肯定会选择自动驾驶的。

You know, if you have a newly designed mine, you would definitely go for autonomous one.

它比当前的系统具有多得多的优势。

It has way more advantages than the current systems.

她说，改造现有设施，尤其是地下矿，要困难得多。

She says it's harder to convert existing facilities, especially underground mines.

杜斯贡表示，人们常常担心会失业，但她表示这种情况并未发生。

Dusgoon says there's often concern about job loss, but she says that hasn't proven to be the case.

全球的实践表明，这并不会减少就业岗位。

The practice in the world shows that it doesn't reduce.

它只是改变了工作的性质。

It changes the nature of the job.

她说，矿山需要的不再是司机，而是控制室操作员和数据分析师。

Instead of drivers, she says mines will need control room operators and data analysts.

代表明尼苏达州矿工的美国钢铁工人工会，对这项技术持观望态度。

The United Steelworkers, which represents Minnesota mine workers, is taking a wait and see approach on the technology.

约翰·阿博加斯特是该工会的工作人员代表。

John Arbogast is a staff representative for the union.

这在铁矿区还是新鲜事物，我们没有任何处理它的经验。

It's something new to the Iron Range, and we don't have any experience dealing with it.

我们只能走一步看一步。

And we're just gonna we're gonna take it as it goes.

你知道的。

You know?

萨瑟兰不愿透露这些卡车的价格，但它们并不便宜。

Sutherland won't say how much the trucks cost, but they're not cheap.

它们是梅萨比金属公司最近购买的1.1亿美元设备中的一部分。

They were part of a $110,000,000 batch of equipment Mesabi Metallics recently purchased.

他说，这些卡车将在明年年初开始在矿场作业，早于矿场在六月全面投产——这是半个世纪以来明尼苏达州新建的第一座铁矿。

He says the trucks will begin work in the mine early next year in advance of it fully opening by June, the first new iron mine in Minnesota in half a century.

在明尼苏达州的纳什瓦克，我是丹·克罗克，为您带来《市场》节目。

In Nashwauk, Minnesota, I'm Dan Crocker for Market Place.

今天最后一条消息：新的一年，全球电动汽车市场排名第一的公司换了新面孔。

This final note on the way out today, new year, new company on top in the global market for electric vehicles.

特斯拉失去了世界最畅销电动汽车制造商的头衔，被中国的比亚迪取代；去年比亚迪售出226万辆汽车，而特斯拉为164万辆。

Tesla lost its spot as the world's best selling maker of EVs to China's BYD, which sold 2,260,000 vehicles last year compared to Tesla's 1,640,000.

特斯拉的销量较前一年下降了9%，分析师将这一下滑归因于美国电动汽车税收优惠到期，以及全球对特斯拉首席执行官埃隆·马斯克政治活动的抵制。

Tesla sales are down 9% from the prior year with analysts blaming the drop on expiring tax breaks for EVs in The US along with the global backlash to Tesla CEO Elon Musk's political activities.

我们的主题音乐由B.J.利伯曼创作。

Our theme music was composed by BJ Lieberman.

《市场》节目的执行制片人是南希·法加利。

Marketplaces executive producer is Nancy Fargali.

乔安妮·格里菲斯担任首席内容官。

Joanne Griffith is the chief content officer.

尼尔·斯卡伯勒是副总裁兼总经理。

Neil Scarborough is the vice president and general manager.

我是金伯利·亚当斯。

And I'm Kimberly Adams.

我们周一再见。

We'll be back on Monday.

这是APM。

This is APM.

大家好。

Hey, everyone.

你们已经听过《市场place》播客了，所以你们知道理解经济力量如何塑造我们的生活很重要。

You already listened to Marketplace podcast, so you know that it's important to understand how economic forces shape our lives.

在我们所有人都试图理解最新新闻时，这一点尤其重要。

And that feels especially important now as we're all trying to make sense of the latest headlines.

我是《市场place》节目《这并不舒服》的主持人玛丽·麦克雷丝，这个节目探讨了金钱如何影响我们的关系、选择以及那些我们通常不愿说出口的生活方面。

I'm Marie Macraes, host of Marketplace's This Is Uncomfortable, a show that explores how money bumps up against our relationships, our choices, and the parts of life we don't always say aloud.

从1月15日起，我们每周都会准时更新。

And starting January 15, we are back every single week.

全新故事，全新问题，以及那些让你在快速变化的经济中不再感到孤单的对话。

New stories, new questions, and the kind of conversations that make you feel less alone in this quickly changing economy.

我们将探讨诸如：我该不该把爱好变成赚钱的副业？

We're tackling questions like: Should I turn my hobby into a money making side hustle?

我该如何应对裁员焦虑？

How do I deal with layoff anxiety?

或者，我们在经济上对父母负有怎样的责任？

Or what do we owe our parents financially?

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