Evolving Money: Stablecoins in Practice and Policy (Sponsored Content)

既然您是这个彭博播客的订阅用户，我们觉得您可能会对这个赞助播客《演进中的货币》感兴趣。

Since you're a subscriber to this Bloomberg podcast, we thought you'd be interested in a sponsored podcast called evolving money.

这个播客由Coinbase和彭博媒体工作室联合制作，讲述机构投资者如何接纳加密货币这一全球最新的资产类别。

Produced by Coinbase and Bloomberg Media Studios, it explains how institutional investors are adopting the world's newest asset class, crypto.

下面为您播放最近的一期内容。

Here's a recent episode.

政府曾经向创新者和开发者传递这样的信息：不管有什么想法，最好都带到国外去，或者收起来放抽屉里，干脆放弃算了。

You had the government sending a message to innovators and developers that they should basically take any ideas that they may have and take them overseas or put them in a drawer somewhere and just abandon them.

这是Coinbase的首席政策官法贾尔·谢尔扎德，他在谈论稳定币过去所处的环境。

That's Farjar Shirzad, the chief policy officer of Coinbase, talking about the way things used to be with Stablecoins.

但过去一年，华盛顿的立场已经发生了转变。

But the message from Washington has changed in the last year.

现在，随着政府态度的这一重大转变，我们看到的是为开发者和创新者打开了绿灯，允许他们围绕稳定币，大胆探索各种新型支付方案。

And so what you're seeing now with this sea change in governmental attitude is essentially a permission structure around developers and innovators who wanna think creatively about different, payment solutions that could be executed on with the use of Stablecoins.

这种被释放的创造力，正推动众多大型金融服务机构将加密货币融入自己的业务体系。

That unleashed creativity is powering a movement amongst major financial services companies who are now integrating crypto into their operations.

在很多情况下，他们都是从稳定币开始的。

In many cases, they're starting with Stablecoins.

这背后有好几个原因，比如能更便宜、更高效地转移资金。

There are a number of reasons for that, including the ability to move money more cheaply and efficiently.

据我们统计，已经有大约250个项目由各类金融机构和开发者公布。

By our count, there's about 250 different projects have been announced by, you know, any number of financial players and developers.

包括最大的银行、支付处理商、信用卡公司、企业等等，都在着手整合。

So the biggest banks, the payment processors, the credit card companies, corporates, and others, to integrate.

我觉得这还只是冰山一角。

And I think we're just at the tip of the iceberg.

过几分钟，我会再和法里亚谈一谈政策趋势。

I'll talk more with Fariah about policy trends in a couple of minutes.

但首先，我想带你看看他提到的那250个项目中的一个——checkout.com。

But first, I I wanna give you a peek into one of those 250 different projects he referred to, checkout.com.

它就是一个大型金融机构正在投资稳定币基础设施的典型案例。

It's an example of a major financial player investing in Stablecoin infrastructure right now.

他们是一家支付服务提供商。

They are a PSP.

也就是你在网上购物时，背后默默处理支付的中间方。

That's a payment service provider, an invisible intermediary working behind the scenes when you buy something online.

Checkout.com 最初做的是信用卡支付，后来扩展到了借记卡。

Checkout.com started out processing credit cards then moved into debit cards.

因为业务覆盖全球，他们还提供货币兑换服务。

And because they're global, they also facilitate currency exchange.

现在，他们正在升级平台，让顾客能用稳定币购物，商家也能用稳定币收款。

Now they're deploying a major upgrade to their platform that will allow consumers to shop using Stablecoins and vendors to get paid in Stablecoins.

今天我们就来深入看看这个方向。

That's what we're going to explore today.

稳定币的实际应用与政策走向。

Stablecoins in practice and in policy.

欢迎收听《演变中的货币》，我是主持人安吉·劳。

This is Evolving Money, and I'm your host, Angie Lau.

本节目由Coinbase和彭博媒体工作室联合制作，Coinbase是全球最大的加密货币平台之一。

The show is coproduced by Coinbase, one of the largest cryptocurrency platforms in the world, and Bloomberg Media Studios.

在本系列中，我们探讨加密货币如何被传统金融机构采纳，作为货币体系的下一个自然演进。

Now in the series, we are exploring how crypto is being adopted by traditional financial institutions as the next logical evolution of the monetary system.

这一集聚焦于稳定币，这是一种通过锚定美元等法定货币来保持价值稳定的加密货币。

And this episode is all about Stablecoins, which are cryptocurrencies designed to maintain a stable value because they're pegged to a fiat currency like the US dollar.

所以它的价格是固定的，但流动性却非常高。

So the price is fixed, but the currency is highly liquid.

由于它能在加密货币网络上快速传输，交易速度和成本都远优于传统银行系统。

And because it can be moved on crypto rails, it's faster and cheaper to transact compared to legacy banking systems.

根据《福布斯》的一份报告，去年稳定币的交易总额超过了三万亿美元。

According to a report in Forbes, Stablecoins were used in more than $30,000,000,000,000 worth of transactions last year.

为了让你有个概念，这个数字超过了维萨和万事达卡的总和。

To give you a sense of scale, that is more than Visa and Mastercard combined.

需要说明的是，这些交易中大部分是加密货币之间的买卖，但其他应用场景也在快速增长。

Now to be clear, the majority of those transactions were trading in cryptocurrencies, but other use cases are growing fast.

发工资、国际采购，甚至日常零售购物，现在都越来越多地用稳定币来完成了。

Payroll, international purchasing, even retail shopping is all increasingly being done with Stablecoins.

今天我的第一位嘉宾是 Checkout.com 的首席产品官 Moran Kilbeggi。

My first guest today is checkout.com's chief product officer, Moran Kilbeggi.

我们一开始聊的时候，我请他跟我们详细讲讲他们公司跟稳定币合作这五年的历程。

I started our conversation by asking him to walk me through the firm's five year relationship with Stablecoins.

早在 2021 年，我们就成了最早一批为商家提供稳定币结算服务的支付服务商之一。

Back in 2021, we were one of the first payment service providers to offer Stablecoin settlement to our merchants.

所以在加密货币的世界里，这已经是很久以前的事了，或者说在数字领域里。

And so this is already a very long time ago in in in crypto world or in digital In

在加密货币的时间尺度上。

crypto years.

在加密货币的时间尺度上。

In crypto years.

没错。

Exactly.

我们当时提供了一项服务，但可惜后来不得不停止了，因为监管环境还不成熟，也没能找到合适的合作伙伴、银行等来支持这项业务。

We offered a service that, unfortunately, we had to wind down because the regulatory framework was just not there, and we were not able to find the right partners and banks and and so forth in order to offer that service.

不过，我们现在正在重新推出这项服务。

But this is what something that we are in the process of relaunching as we speak.

是我们的商户希望用稳定币来结算资金。

And, it's merchants that are acquiring funds with us want to get settled with with Stablecoins.

这具体是什么意思呢？

What does that mean?

意思是他们可以7x24小时随时结算，这是最大的优势之一。

It means that they can they can settle they can get settled 24 by seven, which is one of the big advantages.

资金结算完全是即时的。

The settlement is immediate.

不再受银行营业时间或银行清算系统的影响。

You're not dependent on the bank hours and so on and so forth, and you're not dependent on the on the bank rails.

商户可以自行选择结算方式，是用传统法币，还是直接打入他们的钱包，完全由他们决定。

And the merchant will be able to you to choose how they get settled, whether they get settled with with regular fiat or whether they get settled directly into their wallet will be up to them.

你们主要关注哪些市场？整个计划是怎么推进的？

What are the markets that you're focusing on, and how is it all gonna roll out

没错。

Yep.

在你看来呢？

In your mind?

我们是一家面向企业服务的公司。

We we are an enterprise shop.

对吧？

Right?

我们服务的企业客户几乎都是跨国经营的。

Like, we support enterprise merchants that almost uniformly are international.

他们通常同时在多个市场运营，而我们正是帮他们把这种复杂性简化掉了。

Like, they they operate in multiple markets all the time, and this is part of what we abstract away that complexity.

我们提供一个全球统一的API，他们接入之后，就能在全球范围内接收付款。

You know, we give them the ability to accept payments with one global API that they can that they can just integrate and and accept payments across the world.

所以，国际市场绝对是其中很重要的一部分。

And so for sure, international is a big part of this.

说到推广，我们打算先推出一个对我们来说相当独特的功能，因为我们是一家欧洲公司。

You know, in terms of rollout, we're going to start rolling out something which is pretty unique for us because we are a Europe based company.

我们是一家英国公司。

We're a UK based company.

但我们会先从美国开始，然后再逐步扩展到其他地区。

But we're gonna start with The US, and we're gonna roll out from there.

美国的市场已经有人在要求、在推动这项功能了吗？

Is the marketplace in The United States already asking for this, demanding it?

这是个非常好的问题。

So it's it's a very good question.

坦白说，我也不太确定。

And the honest answer is that I don't know.

我们相信稳定币背后的理念和哲学。

You know, we we believe in the theology and the philosophy behind Stablecoins.

我们相信，未来世界里，稳定币会和其他货币并存，实现全球范围内的无国界支付。

We think that there's a future world where Stablecoins sit along other type of currency and enable cross border, like borderless payments across the board.

我们把这看作一次实验，看看它是否真能为世界带来积极影响。

We look at this as an experiment as something that is could potentially do good in the world.

对。

Mhmm.

我们想把它推出来试试。

We want to put this out there.

想看看大家的反应如何。

We wanna see how people react to it.

有意思的是，一些全球大型商家对此很感兴趣，因为他们有跨境客户。

And and the interesting bit is that some of the big merchants in the world are interested and curious because they have customers that are cross border.

这些客户手里有稳定币钱包，但目前只是用它来购买其他加密货币。

They have customers that have wallets with Stablecoins that they're currently not doing anything with except for buying other forms of crypto.

所以，把稳定币用在零售支付上，对他们来说也是顺理成章的下一步。

And so using it for retail is a logical next step for them as well.

所以我觉得，这更像是生态系统里的一次实验——商家提供这种支付方式，看看消费者最终会怎么选择和使用。

And so I think that it's a it's kind of an experiment within the ecosystem where there's merchant, making it available, for the consumer and seeing what the consumer adopts and chooses at that point in time.

Checkout.com 正在升级他们的平台，以支持目前交易量相对较小的支付系统。

Checkout.com is upgrading their platform to handle a payment system that currently handles, relatively speaking, little volume.

但这里的‘相对’二字，其实承载了相当重的含义。

But the word relatively is doing some pretty heavy lifting there.

我前面提到过，2025年，稳定币用于结算的交易额超过了三万亿美元，这个数字大到连最传统的金融机构都在问自己：

As I mentioned off the top, Stablecoins were used to settle more than 30,000,000,000,000 US dollars in transactions in twenty twenty five, and thirty trillion is a number that has even the most traditional financial services companies asking themselves, hey.

我们该怎么参与进来？

How can we get involved?

梅赫兰认为，全球范围内，尤其是在发展中国家，这个市场有着巨大的增长潜力。

Mehran says they see this as a market with substantial growth potential around the world, especially in developing economies.

如果你生活在高通胀、货币极不稳定的国家，能接触到一种等同于美元的资产，对你来说是件好事。

If you're living in a in an economy that has a very high inflation rate and a very unstable currency, getting exposed to an equivalent of the US dollar is something that is good for you.

当你想进行跨境购物，又不想支付高昂的跨境手续费和汇兑费用时，这又多了一个明显的好处。

When you want to buy cross border and obviously not pay cross border fees and FX fees and so on and so forth, then there is another benefit for you.

事实上，在很多国家，借记卡和信用卡的普及率并不高，而稳定币是一种替代支付方式，在多个地区进入门槛更低。

And, you know, frankly, like in many countries, access to debit and credit card is not ubiquitous, and this is an alternative form of payment, and it has potentially a lower barrier of entry in multiple geographies.

所以我确实能看到稳定币在跨境支付、跨境零售以及新兴市场中的巨大应用潜力。

So I I can definitely see a very good use case for cross border payments, for cross border retail, and for developing markets.

对的。

Mhmm.

那在更成熟、更发达的市场呢？

But what about larger, more established markets?

对于美国和欧洲这样的发达市场，我认为这很大程度上取决于用户的偏好——很多人已经从其他加密货币换成了稳定币，钱包里也已经有足够的流动性。

For developed markets like The US and Europe, I think a lot of this is going to come down to preference and people sort of preferring Stablecoins because, you know, they've they've traded to for other crypto, and they have liquidity in their in their wallets.

他们不想再换回法币，就直接用稳定币支付。

And, you know, rather than trading again to a to a fiat currency, they just want to use it right there.

通过我们正在打造的这个支付体验使用稳定币，实际上会非常方便。

And the convenience actually of paying with a Stablecoin through this experience that we're building is actually it's gonna be pretty convenient.

体验会很不错。

It's gonna be pretty good.

所以我认为，消费者的偏好将会推动这种使用和实际价值的提升。

And so I I think consumer preference is probably gonna drive that usage and utility.

如果转到商家这边，关键就在于资金的流动性与可获得性。

And then if I switch over to to the to the merchant side, it's all about liquidity and availability of funds.

随着生态系统的不断完善，当供应商之间、跨境支付都能通过稳定币完成时，就会形成一个良性循环，商家会越来越觉得这么做更有意义。

And the more the ecosystem builds itself out where vendor to vendor payments can happen on Stablecoins, where cross border payments can happen on Stablecoin, then there becomes a flywheel where it starts making more and more sense for merchants to do this.

长远来看，一些财务团队已经开始考虑，干脆完全用稳定币来管理公司资金，不再需要在公司内部多个实体之间处理结算问题。

And then down the line, I think that some treasury teams are are starting to think about, you know, managing their own treasury completely on Stablecoins and not having to deal with, you know, cross entity settlement between multiple entities within one company.

你可以在内部的账本上直接运行，从长远看，这自然就衔接上了结算与接受的流程。

You can run it on a known on on a ledger internally, and so that sort of plugs into this settlement and acceptance page if you look at it, down the line.

当你准备在美国推出这项服务时，目前最大的限制因素是什么？

When you are getting ready to roll out in The US, what is the biggest current constraint that you're experiencing right now?

是监管问题吗？

Is it regulation?

是消费者钱包的采用率、商家的准备程度，还是运营复杂性？

Is it consumer wallet adoption, merchant readiness, operational complexity?

到底是哪一个呢？

Which is it?

尽管稳定币已经存在好几年了，但对我们这种基于法币的业务来说，仍然有很多利益相关方需要确保他们放心，而且还得走过不少操作上的流程。

Despite the fact that Stablecoins have been around for a number of years, for us as a fiat based business, there are still a lot of stakeholders that you need to make sure that they're comfortable, and there are some operationalization hoops that you need to to go through.

关键是让我们的监管机构清楚我们在做什么，并且对我们的做法感到满意，没有顾虑。

It's about ensuring that our regulators know what we're doing and are are happy with it and don't have concerns with it.

就是要把合同都理顺、签好。

It's, you know, getting the the contracts in order and in place.

所以没什么是绝对的障碍，但确实有不少挑战。

So nothing is a blocker, but there are challenges.

对吧？

Right?

就连在美国，各个州的监管规定也不一样。

Like, even in The US, there are different regimes.

对吧？

Right?

比如纽约，它有自己的牌照，和其他州不一样。

Like, there's New York, which has its its own license versus other states.

运营方式和实体所在地这些因素，都会影响时间表和实施路径，相当复杂。

There's complexity there in how you operate and where your entity is, and all of those things implement influence the timeline and the implementation path.

技术开发反而是最简单的部分。

The technological build is actually the the easiest part.

对吧？

Right?

围绕它的所有事情才真正复杂。

Everything around it is is complexity.

我下一位嘉宾法贾尔·谢尔扎德关注的正是复杂性。

Complexity is the focus for my next guest, Farjar Shirzad.

因为如果技术开发是最简单的，而其他所有环节都很复杂，那法贾尔的目标就是理清这些复杂性。

Because if the technological build is the easy part and everything around it is complex, well, Farjar's goal is to make sense out of the complexity.

他是Coinbase的首席政策官，负责与政府合作，建立监管框架，让像梅兰这样的人能够顺利推出他们的技术方案。

He is the chief policy officer at Coinbase, and his job is to work with governments and establish the regulatory framework that will let people like Mehran launch their technical solutions.

现在你开始看到越来越多的企业和机构玩家进入这个领域。

You're starting to see the enterprise and all a lot more institutional players coming into the space.

但就目前的监管环境而言，我们处在什么阶段？

But where are we right now in terms of regulations?

现在哪些是被允许的？未来又会允许到什么程度？

What is allowed right now, and where will we be allowed to go?

整体的发展趋势是什么？

What is the trajectory?

这是个好问题。

It's a good question.

这也是个非常专业的问题，因为目前有两件事正在同时发生，虽然路径不同，但最终会交汇在一起。一件事是，国会已经通过了《天才法案》，总统也在七月签署了生效。

It's also a very sophisticated question because you have two things happening simultaneously, that are kind of happening somewhat in parallel, but they will converge down the road, and that is you have the genius law, having been passed by congress and signed into into law by the president in July.

正如你很清楚的，这项法案为稳定币发行方建立了联邦层面的监管框架。

And this is, as you know well, is the federal framework for regulating Stablecoin issuers.

通常来说，监管流程是先有立法，再出台实施细则，最后才正式实施。

And so, obviously, in a normal kind of calendar of regulatory action, you have legislation and then the implementing regs, and then you go live.

但有趣的是，在当前这届政府下，监管机构迅速推动稳定币用于一些最复杂的支付场景，甚至在《天才法案》完全实施之前就已开放。

But interestingly with Stablecoins, particularly under this administration, you have rapid movement by the regulators to allow a use of Stablecoins for some of the most complicated payment activities, even before Genius gets fully implemented.

所以，《天才法案》正在落地，与此同时，商品期货交易委员会（CFTC）已经允许稳定币用于衍生品交易和结算。

So you have Genius getting implemented, but then at the same time, you have the CFTC, for example, allowing Stablecoins to be used for derivatives, trade settlement.

没错。

Right.

这真的非常令人振奋。

And that is enormously exciting.

这就像是一个巨大的监管沙盒——从监管的角度看，市场参与者在获得监管机构认可的前提下，正在实际应用这项创新技术。

It's almost like a big sandbox, for example, that is, you know, what they call in a regulatory perspective where you've got market participants executing on and using the innovative technology with the blessing of the regulators Yeah.

即使正式的法规还在逐步完善之中。

Even as the actual regulations get, you know, bedded down.

而这恰恰是最有力量的地方。

And and that's, and that's really powerful.

没错。

Right.

还有来自Checkout.com的莫兰·尼科贝奇，我想重提他说过的话。

And and Moran Nikolbeci from checkout.com, I wanna bring back what he said.

他之前提到，在设计流程时，他们不仅要应对不同国家的监管要求，甚至还要应对各州之间不同的规定。

He mentioned earlier that as they design their processes, they have to account for not just different countries' regulations, but even different states that have different rules.

这确实是当前行业面临的一大难题。

Well, you know, that's the that's the big dilemma that I think the industry has at the moment.

关于监管如何实施，存在一些根本性的问题。

There are certain issues about how regulation takes place.

比如，对于那些中介加密交易的交易所——也就是目前加密交易中占绝大多数的现货交易——目前它们受各州监管，但联邦政府是否拥有对各州的完全优先管辖权，还不明确。

So for example, for exchanges who intermediate crypto trades, spot market transactions, which are the bulk of the crypto trading that you see out there, at the moment, that is subject to state regulation, and it's not clear whether there's full federal preemptive authority over the states.

这就造成了一个混乱的局面：全美50个州各有各的监管机构。

And so that just creates a chaotic environment where you have 50 different regulators across 50 different states.

消费者不清楚自己所在州适用哪些规则，开发者也很难应对50套不同规则带来的合规负担。

Consumers don't know what rules are applied to them depending on where they live, and developers have a hard time implementing and managing the compliance burden of having 50 different rules each different for each different state.

类似这样的问题确实存在。

And so there are issues like that.

但总的来说，特朗普政府时期的监管机构也表现出很强的意愿，想充分利用现有权力，为行业提供明确的指引。

But generally speaking, you also have, at the same time, a real willingness on the part of the regulators under the Trump administration to use every bit of the authority that they have, to provide the clarity that the industry is looking for.

所以立法至关重要。

So there's legislation's critical.

从政策角度看，这是我们最优先的目标。

It's our number one objective from a policy perspective.

我相信我们一定能推动落实，但与此同时，我们也在和监管机构合作，鼓励他们出台清晰的规则。

I'm confident we're going going to get it done, but we are at the same time working with the regulators to encourage them to provide clear rules.

我的意思是，每次政府更替，新上任的监管者确实可能改变规则。

And what I mean by that is, for sure, every time you have a change in administration, new regulators come in and can change the rules.

但要说彻底推翻前任的决定，其实没那么简单——如果之前的规则已经正式确立，市场也已经适应并采纳了这些规则，想翻盘就很难了。

But it's very it's it's not as easy as as it sounds for them to do a one eighty if the previous administration has finalized the rules and market practice has adapted and adopted those rules because it becomes hard.

法院通常很谨慎，不会允许监管机构随意推翻既有规则，因为那样会带来不公平的负担，甚至引发市场混乱。

The courts are careful not to allow regulators to engage in activities as that creates sort of an unfair burden or chaos in the in the markets.

因此，特朗普政府正在双管齐下：一方面积极推动立法，另一方面也在加快推出稳健的监管措施，希望这些规则能稳定下来，让市场逐步围绕它们发展。

And so there is a really interesting effort by the Trump administration to get legislation done, but at the same time to race ahead with with sound regulation that they hope to bed down, have market practice evolve around.

所以，即使立法没能通过，未来一个对加密货币不友好的政府要想推翻这些措施也会变得非常困难。

So even if legislation doesn't get done, it becomes very hard for a future crypto hostile administration to reverse things.

如果让我用多普勒雷达来描绘加密货币监管的发展趋势，现在的情况怎么样？

If I were to ask you to look at the Doppler radar of crypto regulatory development, what's the temperature right now?

目前的形势如何？

What's the weather?

接下来会怎样？

What's in the forecast?

现在真是个特别有意思的时期，因为特朗普政府初期曾迅速推动我刚才提到的那些改革，势头很强。

It's a really, really interesting time because there was a lot of momentum, very fast momentum early in the in the Trump administration to make these changes that I was talking about.

但大概从去年第三季度、第四季度开始，情况发生了变化，现在甚至更明显了——现有的金融巨头终于醒过来了，开始猛烈反对这些变革，因为他们担心这会动摇他们凭借现有地位所获得的经济利益。

But what really has happened probably since q three, q four of last year, and it's even stronger, I would say, now is kind of the incumbent financial players have woken up and have launched some of the most furious attacks on these changes that we're talking about because of fears about what it'll do to the economic rents that come with, you know, their, their incumbency.

于是，你看到所有传统金融机构都跳出来表示：等等，这事儿不对劲。

And so you're seeing all the traditional financial groups kinda jump up and say, oh, wait a minute.

我们不是反对这项技术，但请别这么着急。

We're not against this technology, but please not so fast.

慢一点做。

Do it more slowly.

多设些障碍。

Put more frictions on it.

让它更难一些。

Make it harder.

对。

Mhmm.

像我们这样的公司正在努力平衡这种阻力。

And companies are like ours are trying to, you know, be a be a counterbalance to that resistance.

你觉得目前传统机构和加密行业、数字资产平台之间最棘手的问题是什么？

What do you think the stickiest issue is right now between incumbents and the crypto industry, the digital assets industry, the platforms?

奖励机制的争斗是最明显、媒体上经常报道的例子。

The rewards fight is the most obvious kind of visible example that you see written about in the press.

但另一个例子是证交会内部正在发生的博弈。

But the other example is is the fight that's occurring at the SEC.

证交会主席希望把资本市场迁移到链上。

The SEC chairman wants to migrate capital markets on chain.

T+5、T+6已经缩短到了T+1、T+2甚至T+3。

T plus five, t plus six has gone down to t plus one, plus two, or three.

我们可以进一步做到T+0，实现即时结算。

We can take that down to t plus zero, do instantaneous settlement.

但很多靠这种延迟赚钱的人并不希望看到这种情况发生。

But a lot of folks who make their money off of that lag don't want that to happen.

这是个大问题，因为它牵涉到大量金融中介，他们靠在交易中间搭桥赚取巨额利润。

It's a big, big issue because it implicates a lot of financial intermediaries who earn huge economic rents by sitting in the middle of transactions.

就像发邮件不需要邮差一样，转移价值、股票或美元也不一定非得依赖中间人。

But, just like you don't need a a mailman to send an email, to someone, you don't need to have a necessarily have an intermediary to transfer value in the way you used to or transfer a stock or a, you know, or a dollar.

关键问题是，公共政策会阻止这种变化，还是会推动它发生？

And the question is, will public policy stop that or enable that?

我们已经聊了很多关于美国政府在做什么。

And we've talked a lot about what the US government is doing.

那国际上呢？

What about internationally?

我觉得可以简单分成两条线来看。

Well, I think of it in in two tracks, just to oversimplify it.

一条是稳定币，另一条是市场结构。

One is the Stablecoin track, and the other is the market structure track.

很多其他地区在加密交易规则方面比美国走得快，比如欧洲推出的MiCA，也就是加密资产市场法规。

I think a lot of other jurisdictions move well before The US to establish rules around crypto trading, Europe being a great example of MICA, the market in crypto assets regulation, that they passed.

但说到稳定币或数字货币，其他地区反而比美国慢得多。

But where the shoes are reversed is with regard to Stablecoins or digital money in that other jurisdictions have moved much more slowly than The United States.

像欧盟这样的地方，对稳定币的态度就比较犹豫。

And some places like the European Union are, let's say, ambivalent about Stablecoins.

但现在，《天才法案》已经通过了。

But what's happened is this Genius Act passed.

Adoption 已经大规模展开了。

You've had massive adoption.

现在全球都在担心，因为美国已经大力推动代币化美元，而全世界对美元作为价值储存和交易媒介的需求又如此旺盛，一旦美元以稳定币形式更易获取，其他国家的货币将面临巨大压力，可能逐渐失去相关性。

And all around the world now, there's enormous concern that because The US has gone ahead and adopted so vigorously tokenized dollars and given the insatiable demand the world has for dollars as a, you know, as a sort of value and as a transaction currency, that there will be enormous pressure on foreign currencies in terms of how relevant they can become if the dollar becomes more accessible in stablecoin form.

所以我们向其他地区传达的一个信息是：不管你怎么看待这项技术，决定已经做出了。

And so one of the messages that we've delivered to other jurisdictions is whatever you think about this technology, the decision's been made.

美国已经向前迈出了步伐。

The US has moved forward.

美元稳定币的规模将迅速扩大。

Dollar stablecoins are gonna scale dramatically.

无论是企业、金融机构，还是其他各方，都在广泛采用。

The adoption's happening by across the board, by corporates, financials, everybody.

所以，如果你希望自己的货币保持重要性，就必须推出本国货币的代币化版本。

And so if you want your currency to remain relevant, you have to have a tokenized version of your currency.

我认为这正是加拿大和英国等国家加快制定本国货币稳定币框架的原因。

And I think that's why you see more more kind of rapid action in Canada, The UK to adopt, Stablecoin frameworks for their own currency.

我们认为这其实是一件好事。

And we think that's actually a good thing.

我觉得，越多货币以代币化形式存在，外汇和跨币种交易的生态就越健康。

I think the more currencies are available in tokenized form, the healthier dynamic you have of, you know, foreign exchange, transactions occurring or transactions occurring in in, you know, in and settled in different currencies.

所以我们希望这种情况能发生。

And so we we hope that will happen.

那么，你认为全球玩家需要一个统一的模式，还是说市场可以容纳多个不同的国家监管体系？

So do you think global players need one harmonized model, or can the market function with multiple national regulatory regimes?

不一定非得统一标准，但就稳定币而言，比如现在英国央行就提议对个人持有的英镑稳定币数量设严格上限。

You don't have to have harmonization, but I would say I would say with Stablecoins, you know, you'll have situations like right now in The UK where the Bank of England is proposing pretty tight caps on how much pound sterling Stablecoin any individual can can hold or use.

他们这么做，是想谨慎应对从传统系统向代币化系统的过渡。

And they're trying to do that because they wanna be careful about the transition from the the analog system to a tokenized system.

但我们觉得这是个大错，他们应该像美国那样，快速采纳并把它融入各类机构和零售场景中。

We think that's a big mistake and that they they need to do what The US has done, which is to adopt it rapidly and integrate it into a broad range of institutional and retail use cases.

这种采用的正向循环，反而会促进英镑自身的健康发展。

And that flywheel of adoption will be healthy for, the development of the of the pound sterling.

所以，规则不一定非得统一，但我们认同其中的合理性和常识性。

So it's not an imperative that the rules be, you know, harmonized, but there's a common sense dimension to it that we've sort of support.

在市场监管方面，规则更一致确实更有意义，因为你如果在开发一个金融产品，或者更新一个传统应用，总得让全球用户在同样的规则下使用它。

On the market regulations, that is a place where having more consistent rules makes a lot of sense because if you're building a financial product or let's say you're building an update of a traditional app, you need to have some consistency so that that app can be, you know, accessed by users around the world under the same rules.

还有一些听起来比较专业的问题，比如在Coinbase，我举个实际的例子。

There are also some kind of more esoteric sounding things like, for example, in Coinbase, I'll just give you kind of a more a very practical example.

我们希望使用Coinbase的用户，最终能方便地找到交易所需的流动性。

We want customers who wanna use Coinbase to ultimately be able to source the liquidity for their trade.

所以如果你要买比特币或者其他资产，最好能把所有流动性都集中起来。

So if you wanted to buy Bitcoin or whatever, have all of that liquidity as centralized as possible.

这其实是个好事，因为它能形成更深、更稳健的市场。

That's actually a good thing because it creates deeper, more robust markets.

它能让价格发现更有效，流动性池更大更深，也不容易被系统性风险击穿，但这就需要一定程度的协调。

It creates more effective price discovery, deeper, larger pools of liquidity are less susceptible to systemic events, but that requires some harmonization.

而这一点，恰恰需要各方展开对话。

But that's where you you you need a dialogue.

目前美国和英国的财政部就在积极沟通，共同协调加密货币、区块链和资产代币化市场的监管政策。

And The US and UK happen to have a dialogue right now going on between the two treasuries, coordinating and collaborating on crypto and blockchain based and tokenization market regulation.

这是我们一直敦促他们关注的问题，就是建立一个相互承认监管体系的机制。

This is one of those issues that we've urged them to look at, which is creating a system in which they recognize each other's regulatory system.

这样一来，英国公司想在美国运营时，就能让美国客户接入英国的流动性，反过来也一样，而这需要监管协调。

And so UK companies who wanna operate in The US can provide US customers access to UK liquidity and vice versa, and that requires harmonization.

这是Coinbase的首席政策官法贾尔·谢尔扎德。

That's Farjar Shirzad, the chief policy officer for Coinbase.

很明显，整体趋势正在向好的方向发展。

It's clear that things are trending in the right direction.

关键问题在于监管推进的速度，以及创新者是否觉得有足够的确定性和稳定性来开发产品并推向市场。

The big questions focus on the pace of regulations and whether innovators feel there's enough certainty and stability to build products and push them into the market.

Checkout.com显然就是这么认为的。

Checkout.com certainly feels that way.

等他们推出新平台的时候，肯定会很值得期待。

It's gonna be exciting to watch as they roll out their new platform.

说到这里，我想再回过头问问梅赫兰·凯尔贝基：如果他们的 rollout 按计划进行，稳定币真的成为一种方便易用的全球通用货币，这会怎样改变世界？

With that in mind, I wanna go back to Mehran Kelbecki and ask him, if their rollout goes as planned and Stablecoins become more widely used as an easy to move universal currency, how will it change the world?

如果这件事能成，我觉得资金流动的体系会逐渐转向数字化的通道，跨境支付变得无缝、免费，不再像现在这样缓慢，也不再收取高额的汇兑费用。

If this were to work, I think that seeing the ecosystem of money movement move to towards rails, that are digital and having payments that are porter less, that are free across borders, that don't suffer from the slowness that the existing system currently has, that don't suffer from the exchange fees that we're seeing.

这一切都会让消费者和商家的体验变得更好，而这正是我们Checkout一直在努力推动和探索的方向。

All of that makes for, I think, a better consumer experience and a better merchant experience, and that's what we as Checkout are trying to facilitate all the time and trying to find ways to to enable.

现在听起来可能有点理想化，但我相信再过几年，这种局面是有可能实现的。

So it's maybe utopic to to think about it now, but I think that there is a few years down the line, it could happen.

那就拭目以待吧。

So fingers crossed.

我是安吉·劳，欢迎收听《演变中的货币》，本节目由Coinbase与彭博媒体工作室联合制作。

I'm Angie Lau, and this is Evolving Money, a coproduction between Coinbase and Bloomberg Media Studios.

感谢收听。

Thanks for listening.

我们的播客里还有十几期其他对话，欢迎回溯浏览，今天就听听看吧。

There are more than a dozen other conversations in our feed for you to check out, so don't hesitate to scroll back in time and listen to some of those today.