为什么私人资产至关重要：与斯蒂芬妮·德雷舍尔探讨商业大师

我是汉娜·弗莱。

I'm Hannah Fry.

随着我们在生活和商业的方方面面越来越依赖人工智能，我致力于探索如何构建人工智能所需的互联网。

And as we rely more and more on artificial intelligence in every facet of our lives and businesses, I'm on a mission to find out how we can build the Internet that AI needs.

更多内容请收听本播客的后续部分。

Learn more later in the podcast.

彭博音频工作室。

Bloomberg Audio Studios.

播客。

Podcasts.

广播。

Radio.

新闻。

News.

这是彭博广播的《商业大师》节目，主持人是巴里·里特尔茨。

This is Masters in Business with Barry Ritholtz on Bloomberg Radio.

本周的播客，我有一位特别的嘉宾。

This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest.

斯蒂芬妮·德雷舍尔是私人投资巨头阿波罗公司的首席客户与产品开发官。

Stephanie Drescher is chief client and product development officer at private investment giant.

她在该公司已任职超过二十年。

Apollo, She's been there for over twenty years.

在那之前，她曾在摩根大通从事另类投资业务十年。

She spent a decade before that doing alternatives at JPMorgan.

真是个令人着迷的人。

What a fascinating person.

阿波罗公司管理着8400亿美元的客户资产，她不仅 oversees 财富部门，还参与了多个地区和新产品的开发。

Apollo runs $840,000,000,000 in client assets, And she has really not over overseen the wealth division, but also worked on a variety of geographies, new products.

她被列入了每个人的最佳名单。

She's on everybody's best of list.

自《巴伦周刊》女性金融榜创立以来，她每年都上榜。

She's been on the Barron's women in finance list since inception every year.

我觉得这场对话非常有趣。

I thought this conversation was fascinating.

如果你对私募股权、私募债务、私募信贷或私募基础设施有任何兴趣，你一定会觉得这场对话绝对精彩。

If you're remotely interested in private equity, private debt, private credit, private infrastructure, you'll find this conversation absolutely fascinating.

闲话少说，欢迎Apollo的Stephanie Drescher。

With no further ado, Apollo's Stephanie Drescher.

Stephanie Drescher，欢迎来到彭博。

Stephanie Drescher, welcome to Bloomberg.

谢谢，Barry。

Thank you, Barry.

很高兴能来这里。

Happy to be here.

很高兴你来。

Happy to have you.

我们稍后会深入探讨Apollo以及你的投资理念。

So we're gonna get into Apollo and your investment philosophy in a bit.

但在我们深入之前，我必须先聊聊你的背景。

But before we do, I I just have to start with your background.

你在巴纳德学院获得学士学位，之后在哥伦比亚商学院取得MBA。

Bachelor's in Barnard at at Columbia, MBA from Columbia Business School.

你最初的职业规划是什么？

What was the original career plan?

我一直以来都瞄准了金融领域。

I I did always have finance in my sights.

嗯。

Mhmm.

本科时，我主修经济学和心理学。

So undergrad, it was econ and psych.

我常开玩笑说，如今我在日常工作中用到的心理学知识，远多于经济学。

I I joke that I use the psych in my day to day field way more than the econ these days.

但我一直对金融领域充满吸引力，对市场等事物抱有浓厚兴趣。

But there there was always a draw towards doing something in in the financial kind of arena, interest in markets, and the like.

所以很早的实习就引导我走上了这条路。

So very early internships led me down that path.

我曾在你的背景资料中看到，你是因为祖母的启发才决定投身金融行业的。

And I read somewhere in your background that you were particularly inspired to go into finance by your grandmother.

跟我们说说这件事吧。

Tell us about that.

确实如此。

That is true.

我父亲的母亲曾和我们住在一起，你可能难以置信，她出生于十九世纪末期。

So my father's mother lived with us for a time, and believe it or not, she was born in the very, very late eighteen hundreds.

嗯。

Mhmm.

虽然她的兄弟后来成了医生，但她只接受了八年级的教育。

And while her brother went on to become a doctor, she capped out at an eighth grade education.

因此，教育的力量一直是她和我们家庭的核心价值观和关注重点。

And so the power of education was always, a core value and a focus of of hers and my family.

她每天都会从头到尾阅读《华尔街日报》，非常聪明，喜欢追踪股票，于是我们开始一起追踪股票。

And she used to read the Wall Street Journal cover to cover every day, super smart, loved tracking stocks, and so we started to track stocks together.

那你是怎么

And How

那时候你多大？

old were you at this time?

哦，我不记得了。

Oh, I don't know.

大概是12岁吧。

Maybe 12.

好的。

Okay.

我们以一种非常高科技的方式，把股票信息贴在冰箱上，观察她投资组合的变化和持仓情况，有时她的持仓和我父母的还会重叠。

And in a very high-tech way, we would put it up on the refrigerator and kind of see the the changes and and the holdings that she had in her portfolio and sometimes overlapped with that of my parents.

那就是我的早期起点。

That was the early start.

所以你从哥伦比亚大学获得了MBA学位。

So you get an MBA from Columbia.

毕业后第一份工作就是摩根大通吗？

JPMorgan was the first job right out of school?

是的。

It was.

不过在加入摩根大通之前，其实有一位导师，你可能想不到，我最初是给这个家庭做保姆，直到做了段时间后，这位母亲看着我说：我觉得你的保姆生涯该结束了。

Although there there was a mentor, right, prior to the JPMorgan opportunity that believe it or not, I started babysitting for this family, and I didn't know what the mother did day to day until after a period of time of babysitting, she looked at me and she said, I think your babysitting days are over.

我说：我不明白你在说什么。

And I said, I don't know what you're talking about.

她说：我经营一家女性领导的医疗咨询公司。

And she said, I run a women led healthcare consulting firm.

你有兴趣来实习吗？

Would you like an internship?

我差点从椅子上跳起来，说：我太想实习了。

And I practically fell off my chair, and I said, I would love an internship.

那时候你多大？

How old are you at this time?

十六岁左右？

Like 16?

那是高中后期，可能刚上大学，非常早期。

It was late high school, maybe early college, early early.

那是一个人能给我的最棒的机会之一，让我亲眼看到一家专业机构是如何运作的，以及其中涉及的所有分析和客户关系管理。

And it was the most amazing kind of opportunity that someone could give me, right, just seeing a professional organization, do its thing and all the analysis and client relationship management that went into that.

所以虽然我决定医疗行业不是我的方向，咨询也不是我的方向，但这非常自然地把我引向了摩根大通和金融领域。

So while I decided that healthcare wasn't my thing and consulting wasn't my thing, it was very an easy bridge to JP Morgan and the finance field.

那你刚加入摩根大通时，担任的是什么职位？

So when you started JP Morgan, what was the role?

你当时在哪些领域工作？

How did you what areas were you toiling in?

我一开始参加了一个轮岗项目，那真是太棒了。

So I started with a rotational opportunity, which was terrific.

我接触过从固定收益研究到日内瓦私人银行业务的各种工作。

I had everything from fixed income research to private banking in Geneva.

你去瑞士了吗？

Did you go to Switzerland?

去了。

I did.

嗯。

Yeah.

大概六个月。

For about six months.

我意识到我得在白天买所有杂货，因为下班时商店都关门了，而且我喜欢在周末旅行。

I realized that I needed to buy all of my groceries during the day because it was closed by the time I got out of work, and then I like to travel on weekends.

但更重要的是，认真地说，那段时间让我对时区和文化差异有了更深的了解，真正看到了纽约和美国以外的客户视角。

So, importantly, though, and seriously, it was a terrific time in my life to be more aware of time zones and cultural nuances and really see kind of a a client perspective outside of of New York and The US.

世界真大啊。

So It's a big world.

完全正确。

Totally.

但一旦你开始旅行并生活在其他地方，世界也会显得如此渺小。

Yet it also can feel so small once you start to to travel and live elsewhere.

那真是一次绝佳的机会。

So that was a terrific opportunity.

随后，在这个轮岗项目结束后，我进入了私人银行的另类投资领域，从此一发不可收拾。

And then ultimately, out of that rotational program ended up in alternatives within the private bank, and then we were off to the races.

所以，那时候就有另类投资了。

So alternatives way back then.

但在你离开瑞士之前，我最近还回忆起一次去日内瓦湖的度假。

But before you leave Switzerland, I recall a vacation not too long ago to Lake Geneva.

我们住进了一家曾经是城堡的酒店。

And what's ama and we were in this hotel that used to be a castle.

你原本以为自己对镀金时代和老钱文化有些了解，但当你亲眼见到时，才发现，不，不，我们说的是500年的历史，这完全是一种截然不同的、令人耳目一新的体验，和这里大不相同。

And like, you think you have some understanding of the Gilded Age and old money, and then you see, no, no, we mean 500 years of It's old just such a different eye opening, so different than here.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

真的非常棒。

Really, really amazing.

所以你在摩根大通的另类投资部门。

So you're in the alts, group at at JPMorgan.

你在摩根大通待了十年。

You stay at JPMorgan for a decade.

跟我们讲讲你在那里的工作内容。

Tell us a little bit about the work you did there.

嗯。

Yeah.

那时我们刚开始与全球各地的家庭、摩根大通的超高净值客户讨论另类投资在他们投资组合中的作用。

So it was very early days of speaking to families around the world, the ultra high net worth clients of of JPMorgan, about the role of alternatives in their portfolio.

我记得很清楚，当时在讨论替代投资中的核心与卫星策略，现在我们称之为私募市场，但这让我深刻认识到，我们首先需要为这些客户建立坚实的教育基础，如今我依然能看到这一理念持续发挥作用。

And I remember distinctly speaking about the core and satellite within alternatives now, kind of private markets as our nomenclature, but it gave me such a great perspective in terms of the educational kind of foundation that we needed to set first with those clients, and I see it now continuing to play out.

但我在摩根大通的十年，虽然转瞬即逝，却是一个绝佳的训练场，让我全面评估了从私募股权到对冲基金再到信贷的各种私募市场策略。

But my my time at JPMorgan, and it was a very fast ten ten years and an amazing kind of training ground was was kind of an assessment of all the different private market strategies from private equity to hedge funds to credit.

我的工作职责结合了买方和卖方两方面：买方是对我们拟纳入平台的管理人进行尽职调查，卖方则是向客户经理和终端客户进行教育推广。

And the seat was a combination of the buy side, so kind of due diligence on the managers we were going to put on platform, and then the sell side in terms of the educational component to the end banker and and client.

非常有趣。

Super fun.

我曾环游世界，讲解替代投资如何影响收益表现、实现多元化以及平滑波动性，而那时私募股权还远未每天登上头条。

Traveled around the world speaking about, how alts could factor in to return profiles and diversification, smoother volatility, all at a time when private equity was not on the front page every day.

那还是非常早期的阶段。

It was very early.

让我们稍微 contextualize 一下。

Let let's contextualize a little bit.

那是九十年代中期到晚期，以及两千年代初。

This is the mid to late nineties and early two thousands.

股市正在飙升，年涨幅达两位数，尤其是九十年代的最后四年。

The stock market was just screaming higher double digits, especially the last four years of the nineties.

那时候是什么样子？

What was it like then?

听众对您建议考虑这些另类市场有多接受？

How receptive was the audience to you should consider these private markets?

当时整个市场规模小了多少？

How how much smaller was the whole space back then?

是的。

Yeah.

那还是非常早期的阶段，市场份额也非常小。

It was very early days and a very small fraction.

我记得，如果我们每个季度推出一位管理人，就已经是大事了。

I mean, I remember, you know, if we if we launched kind of one manager a quarter, it was a big deal.

现在我觉得，每个季度都有几十位管理人随时可供客户选择。

Now I feel like there are probably dozens kind of on on the shelf available for for clients, every every day, every quarter.

但转型已经开始显现，尤其是大型家族开始认识到另类资产管理人能为其投资组合带来的回报潜力，他们不希望完全依赖。

The, but the transformation was starting to take hold where, there were especially the large families recognizing the return potential that a manager in in alternatives could provide in in their portfolio, and they didn't wanna rely.

当时还处于非常早期的阶段，但他们已经意识到，不能仅仅依赖公开市场的投资。

It was very early, but they saw that they didn't wanna rely exclusively on public market exposure.

所以，当我们今天观察大型家族办公室客户的配置比例时，实际上已经与机构投资者持平，甚至超过了他们。

So, you know, when we look at actually the percentages in kind of large family office clients today, it matches or frankly exceeds that of an institution.

但它们早在那些年代，就比大多数财富管理机构更早地从超高净值客户端开始布局。

But it's still they started at the ultra high net worth end so much earlier kind of in back in those days than most in wealth.

所以我认为，像摩根大通的客户群以及少数几家私人银行，很早就开始推介这些投资机会。

So I think, you know, there were you know, the likes of a JPMorgan client base and a select number of other private banks did start early in in showcasing these opportunities.

当我环游世界时，发现这种采纳程度很强，但当时仍主要是靠讲故事和一些小众机会；而如今，人们已经认识到，私募市场解决方案既可以作为投资组合的核心配置，也可以作为卫星配置，与公开市场投资形成互补。

And the adoption as I traveled around the world was was strong, but it was still kind of storytelling and a lot of niche opportunities where I feel like we fast forward to today, people recognize that private market solutions can play both the core and satellite in in their portfolio as it relates, to a complement to the public market exposure.

所以你是在2004年加入阿波罗的。

So you joined Apollo in 2004.

我有点好奇。

I'm kinda curious.

几年前，我们经历了互联网泡沫破裂。

A few years earlier, we have the .com implosion.

几年后，我们遭遇了全球金融危机。

A few years later, we have the great financial crisis.

我不喜欢人们把这些称为百年一遇的事件，因为它们发生的频率远比那高。

I hate when people call these, you know, once a century events because they seem to happen a lot more frequently than that.

但这些巨大的公共事件在讲述私人市场投资的故事时有多重要？这些投资没有同样的波动性和定期的‘爆炸’。

But how significant were those giant public events to telling the story of, hey, here's some private market investments that you don't have the same sort of volatility and regular, you know, explosions.

是的。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

你说得对。

You're you're right.

它们为为什么选择另类投资、为什么选择私募市场提供了极其重要的背景。

They they were such an incredibly important backdrop to to why alternatives, why private markets.

事实上，当我还坐在摩根大通的座位上时，阿波罗当时正在推出我们的私募股权旗舰基金五，互联网泡沫正处于尾声，并开始破裂。

And and in fact, when I was still in my seat at JPMorgan, but Apollo was offering then our private equity flagship fund five, The the.com boom was just at its tail, and was starting to fracture.

你看到了

You saw

那些

the

迹象。

signs.

而阿波罗公司登上了平台，讲述了一个价值故事。

And Apollo came onto the platform and was talking a value story.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

在最初的几周里，接受度没有那么高。

And for the first several weeks, there wasn't as much take up.

然后随着市场开始急剧变化，出现了一种警醒的呼声：哇。

And then as the the market started to change dramatically, there was this wake up call of, woah.

你知道吗？

You know what?

我们再来看看价值。

Let's look at value again.

那基本上就是2000年左右那次募资故事的尾声。

And that kind of was the tail end of the of the story for for that fundraise back around the 2000 period.

时间快进到金融危机时期。

Fast forward to the great financial crisis.

那时我已经是Apollo的成员，能够亲眼目睹投资委员会的运作，那真是一段不可思议的时光。

It was such an incredible time at that point, I was already in my Apollo seat, to to see the investment committee dynamic.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你知道，由于我们不仅对私募股权有见解，还深度参与信贷领域，因此在某些信贷机会上，我们能够充满信心地大举投入。

And, you know, there were moments that thankfully, because we were, so steeped on the credit side in addition to obviously our view of private equity, where we we could back up the truck on certain credits with conviction.

如今回想起来，我真诚地为那个时期所做出的决策感到自豪，事实上，后来在市场动荡时期，许多决策也是如此。表面上看，投资决策似乎轻而易举，但实际上，要在那样的时刻做出重大投资决策，需要付出大量的努力和严谨的分析。

And I look back now with with honestly such pride for the decisions that were made in that period of time and frankly many subsequently during moments of dislocation where it it they make it look so easy on the investment side, but it actually takes so much work and rigor to be in position to make those, big investment calls in those moments in time.

但它为我们带来了极大的帮助，并且至今仍在发挥作用。

But it it served us incredibly well and and continues to.

甚至是解放日。

Even liberation day.

嗯。

Mhmm.

就在市场开始显著波动之后，时间已经非常紧迫了。

Right post when the market started to move materially, there wasn't that much time.

在48小时内，由于我们看到的家庭发行人和相关名称的波动，市场出现了一次修正。

Within forty eight hours, there were there was kind of a correction, from, from the volatility that we saw on household issuers and and names.

但幸运的是，凭借我们的规模和对这些资本结构的深入了解，我们在短短几天内就投入了约250亿美元，并成为那次市场动荡期间最大的市场参与者之一。

But thankfully, based on our scale and knowledge of those capital structures, we were able to to put about 25,000,000,000 of dollars to work in just a few days, and we're one of the biggest market participants during that moment of dislocation.

你知道，你提到了高信心的投资。

You know, you mentioned high conviction investments.

我记得在2000年代中期到后期，人们经常提到‘有毒资产’这个说法。

I recall in the mid to late two thousands, people tossed around the phrase toxic assets.

我的态度一直认为，根本不存在所谓的有毒资产。

And my attitude was always, there's no such thing as toxic assets.

存在的只有有毒的价格。

There are only toxic prices.

任何东西只要折价足够，最终都会变得有吸引力。

Everything discounted enough become eventually becomes attractive.

我们内部和外部常提到的一句口号是：购买价格很重要。

Look, are one of our kind of taglines that you'll hear internally and externally is purchase price matters.

没错，百分之百。

Yeah, a 100%.

你为某物支付的价格，将对后续的回报产生巨大影响。

What you pay for something is gonna have a giant impact on what the subsequent returns are gonna be.

完全正确。

Totally.

而且，这确实需要纪律，尤其是在市盈率飙升到天文数字的时候。

And, you know, that that does it does require discipline, especially when multiples are going to kind of stratospheric levels.

但你知道，这种策略在保持纪律方面为我们带来了非常高效和成功的成果。

But, you know, it has that strategy has borne out in a very kind of productive and successful way for us maintaining that discipline.

但正如你所说，识别那些投资被错误定价或未被充分理解的时刻，并愿意在正确的时间、以正确的价格应对这种复杂性，以实现我们想要的结果。

But as you're saying, like, spotting those moments where investments are mispriced or not well understood and being willing to, deal with that complexity at the right place at the right price in order to generate the outcome we want.

非常有趣。

Really, really interesting.

接下来，我们将继续与阿波罗的首席客户与产品发展官斯蒂芬妮·德雷舍尔对话，讨论她在阿波罗的职业生涯。

Coming up, we continue our conversation with Stephanie Drescher, Apollo's chief client and product development officer, discussing her career at Apollo.

我是巴里·里塔尔茨。

I'm Barry Ritalts.

您正在收听Bloomberg Radio的《金融大师》节目。

You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.

随着我们对人工智能的使用日益扩大，我们如何确保它不会破坏互联网？

As our use of AI expands, how do we make sure it doesn't end up breaking the Internet?

我是《指数时代》的主持人汉娜·弗莱，这个系列探讨了未来网络技术对现实世界的影响。

I'm Hannah Fry, host of the exponential era, a series that explores the real world impact of future network technology.

我与两位专家进行了交谈，以了解我们如何满足人工智能的巨大连接需求。

And I sat down with two experts to discover how we can support the massive connectivity needs of AI.

了解更多我在 bloomberg.com/Nokia 的发现。

Find out what I learned at bloomberg.com/ Nokia.

随着市场波动和新闻突发，最重要的是背景信息。

As markets move and headlines break, what matters most is context.

彭博社的订阅为您提供无与伦比的报道、深刻的分析和强大的工具，帮助您串联起各种信息。

A Bloomberg subscription gives you unmatched reporting, sharp analysis, and powerful tools that help you connect the dots.

访问 bloomberg.com/podcastoffer 了解更多信息。

Visit bloomberg.com/podcastoffer to learn more.

我是巴里·里特尔茨。

I'm Barry Ritholtz.

您正在收听彭博电台的《投资大师》节目。

You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.

本周的特别嘉宾是斯蒂芬妮·德雷舍。

My extra special guest this week is Stephanie Drescher.

她是阿波罗的首席客户与产品开发官。

She is Apollo's chief client and product development officer.

阿波罗管理着约8400亿美元的客户资产。

Apollo runs about 840,000,000,000 in client assets.

我喜欢这个头衔，但我猜人们一定很好奇，阿波罗的首席客户与产品开发官的一天是怎样的？

So I love this title, but it I gotta think people are wondering, what's a day in the life of Apollo's chief client and product development officer like?

听起来这是一片非常广阔的领域。

It sounds like that's a really wide, bit of land.

这是一份很有趣的工作。

It's it's a fun job.

我已经在阿波罗工作了二十一年。

So I've been at Apollo now twenty one years.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我刚加入时，负责在全球范围内建立机构业务板块。

And when I first started, I built out the institutional side of of the business globally.

因此，主权财富基金，比如公共养老基金，曾是我们核心的客户群体，偶尔通过私人银行或财富管理机构提供服务。

So sovereign wealth funds, think the DB public pension plans, and that was very much our core client base with an episodic offering through a private bank or a wire from time to time.

随着这个市场发展并成熟为一个强大的全球业务，马克·罗安（现任CEO）和我都清楚，未来我们有必要在机构业务之外，补充一项财富管理战略。

As, as that market evolved and and matured into a very robust global business, there it was clear to Mark Rowan, now CEO, and I that, at some point, complementing that institutional business with a wealth strategy, was in our future.

不过，我们希望确保选择正确的时机全力投入财富管理，因为这需要巨大的承诺，我相信我们稍后会进一步讨论。

We wanted to make sure, though, that we chose the right moment, to really lean in to wealth because it it does take a massive commitment, and I'm sure we'll talk more about it.

因此，在我的角色中，我很幸运能够拓展我们的业务，涵盖客户产品组合、产品开发，以及与分销商和投资者的合作。

So, in my role, I am fortunate enough to build out our business as it relates to our client set of offerings, our product development, as well as our partnerships with our distributors, with our investors.

同时，确保我们在持续创新的过程中，能够贴近客户的需求，常常与客户共同设计对他们最有意义的产品方案。

And just making sure that as we continue to innovate, we meet our clients where they are and often kind of coauthor the types of offerings that are most meaningful to them.

因此，在任何一天，我都会思考我们的产品组合以及我们正在创新的方向。

So in any given day, I get to think about our set of products and what we're innovating.

我会与现有和潜在的客户及合作伙伴进行交流。

I get to speak with our clients and and partners, existing and and prospects.

我管理着一个庞大的团队和人才，同时非常注重企业文化，这对我来说意义重大。

I manage a large group of of people and our talent, and I lean in with a very keen focus on culture, which means a lot to me.

这真的很有趣。

So that's really interesting.

您如何描述阿波罗的文化？您做了什么来塑造这种文化？

How would you describe Apollo's culture, and and what do you do to help shape that?

自从我加入以来，我们的文化一直有一些共同的主题，我认为这些主题一直推动着公司向前发展。

So, look, since the day I joined, there have been certain common themes to to our culture, which I think have always kind of propelled us forward as a firm.

虽然是上市公司，但感觉更像是一个合伙制企业。

Now public, but very much feels like a partnership.

首先是确保我们持续创新，保持创业精神，并赋予员工发现机会并以适当方式追求这些机会的能力。

And and the first one is making sure that we continue to innovate, to feel very entrepreneurial, and to empower our people to kind of find those opportunities and and pursue them in in an appropriate way.

我们以功绩制管理公司，因此希望赋予员工责任，让他们在自己的职业发展以及对公司贡献方面发挥最大影响。

We manage the firm as a meritocracy, so we wanna give people responsibility and let them kind of really kind of have the greatest impact that they can for their own professional careers as well as for the firm.

我们希望打造一种追求胜利的高绩效文化。

And we wanna have a winning high performance culture.

也就是说，尽管我们已经取得了诸多成功，但仍希望保持并推动这种文化，持续维持高水平的绩效。

Meaning, you know, even with all the success that we've had, we want to maintain that, propel it forward, and continue that high level of performance.

而且，重要的是，我们共同做到这一点。

And importantly, we do it together.

所以这并不是关于任何一个人。

So it's not about any person.

我经常对我的团队说，这是‘我们’，而不是‘我’，这非常有力量。

I often say to my team, you know, it's it's we, not me, and that's really powerful.

因此，当我们把阿波罗的所有资源整合起来，称之为‘一体阿波罗’，应用于任何客户情况或目标时，我们都能利用公司的整体力量取得成功，让我们所有人都能赢。

So when we bring everything that Apollo has to offer, we call it kind of the one Apollo, to, to any client situation or any goal, we can use that power of of the firm to be successful and to allow us all to win.

真的非常有趣。

Really really interesting.

你知道，在疫情期间，我听到企业高管们最大的抱怨是：我们如何维持多年来投入大量时间和精力打造的企业文化？突然间，所有人都在家，穿着睡衣参加Zoom会议。

You know, so the biggest complaint I heard from various corporate executives during the pandemic was how do we maintain the corporate culture we've spent so much time and energy trying to build over the years, suddenly everybody's at home on a Zoom call in their pajamas.

你如何维持这样的企业文化？

How do how do you maintain corporate culture like that?

事实上，无论我们是否都在办公室，维持这种文化都至关重要，尤其是在疫情期间面临的挑战。

It's so important, frankly, whether we're all in the office to maintain that culture or certainly the challenges during the pandemic.

确保在那段新冠疫情期间，即使是在远程情况下，也建立各种交流平台以保持联系非常重要。我记得当时我们举办过许多不同的午餐会议，通过Zoom进行，我们的家庭社区小组也举办过各种网络研讨会，员工作为父母，他们的孩子也参与其中。

Making sure, certainly during that, during kind of that COVID period of creating forums, even if it was remote, to maintain the connectivity was was really important to have different I remember many different kind of lunchtime meetings that we would have on Zoom or our family community group would have different webinars where it was the employee as parent and then their children, frankly, were involved as well.

所以我认为，即使是在远程工作的情况下，培养这种社区感也很重要。

So I think it's kind of fostering that sense of of community even if it is in fact remote.

然后，幸运的是，回到办公室后，当我经过彭博社这里的六楼时，我看到了你们精心设计的楼层布局，以及员工可以轻松获取的餐饮设施。

And then thankfully, once in office, I know as I was passing through the 6th Floor here at at Bloomberg, I saw the very deliberate kind of floor plan that you have and food and beverage kind of accessible to employees.

每个人都要经过六楼。

Everybody has to go through six.

这促使了各种偶然的会面发生。

It causes all these random meetings that you have.

天啊，我好久没见到你了。

Oh, I haven't seen in all the time.

最近一切都还好吗？

How's everything going?

因为大家都会上来喝咖啡或吃点心。

Because everybody shows up for coffee or treats.

完全正确。

Totally.

我们也是如此。

And and we have the same.

我们的位于8楼，但我们称之为非正式交流区。

So ours is on the 8th Floor, but we call it the casual collision.

从实际角度来看，一旦能够恢复，让员工前来并促进这种协作，对我们文化来说至关重要。

And that's really important to our culture to kind of show up certainly as soon as we could do, do so from a practical perspective and allow for that collaboration.

让人们共同分享、一起找到最佳解决方案，这极其重要。

It's, it's super important for people to to share and get to the best answer possible together.

我想谈谈财富频道，但在那之前，我必须问一下阿波罗做的一件事，不是每家大型私募市场公司都这么做。

So I wanna talk about The Wealth Channel, but before I get there, I have to ask about something that Apollo does that not every large private markets firm does.

你曾谈到将公司利益与客户利益对齐，确保你们站在交易的同一边。

You have talked about realigning the interest of the firm with clients, making sure that you're on the same side of trades.

为此，阿波罗经常与客户在某些项目中共同投资。

And towards that end, Apollo is a regular co investor along with clients in certain projects.

跟我们说说这个。

Tell us about that.

嗯。

Yeah.

从资产负债表的角度来看，我们常常是与第三方客户并列的最大投资者之一，甚至就是最大的投资者，参与我们所管理的投资和策略。

So from from a kind of balance sheet perspective, we are often one of, if not the largest investor side by side with our third party clients in the investments and strategies that we manage.

通过我们的退休服务业务Athene以及我们的第三方业务，我们与客户并肩投资。

So through our retirement services business, Athene, as well as our third party business, we we invest side by side.

因此，我们为资产负债表所做的决策，与我们用第三方资本投资的策略结果保持一致。

And so the decisions we make on behalf of the balance sheet are aligned with with the outcomes of of the strategies in which we invest third party capital.

所以我们经常说，我们无法保证结果。

So we often say, well, we can't guarantee the outcome.

但我们保证的是共同的结果。

We guarantee a shared outcome.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这对我们来说意义重大，不仅体现了我们的承诺和专注，也对我们的客户至关重要，因为他们深知这一点对我们有多重要。

And and that means a lot to us in terms of our commitment and focus, but also to our clients because they they know how important it is to us in multiple ways.

我想，如果任何人对某项投资有疑虑，看到私募股权公司与你们共同投资，这一定会极大地增强他们的信心。

I I would imagine if anybody has hesitation on a investment, if you see the private equity firm co investing along with you, that has to be a big confidence driver.

确实如此。

It is.

在某些情况下，当你纵观整个行业时，资产管理人的承诺可能只有2.5%或3.5%。

And in certain instances, like when you look across the industry, a commitment from an asset manager might be at the 2.5% or 3.5.

如果达到5%，那就是例外了。

It's an outlier if it's a 5% commitment.

但不会达到两位数。

But not double digits.

没错。

Exactly.

在我们的一项策略中，该策略拥有一个多元化的另类市场投资组合，而我们的出资占比达到了三分之二。

Where in one strategy of ours, which has a diversified portfolio of private markets, we are two thirds of that portfolio.

所以当我们说这对我们资产负债表意义重大时，我们是认真的。

So when we say that it's meaningful to our balance sheet, we mean it.

在直接持股和绩效费方面，这如何运作？

How does that work in terms of direct stakes and performance fees?

比如，如果你们是大部分投资资产的持有者，这必然会对资产负债表的形态产生影响。

Like if you're most of the invested assets, that has to have an impact on what the balance sheet looks like.

你们是如何协调这一点的？

How do you guys align that?

总之，我们始终以绩效为先。

So, look, we are performance first at the end of the day.

我们与客户的关系以及建立的信任，都是通过长期的绩效和服务积累起来的。

Our relationships and the trust that we build are over time through performance and through service.

我的意思是，我们希望确保我们的合作伙伴在方方面面都能感受到我们的支持。

I mean, we wanna make sure that our partners feel our support in just about every way.

因此，对我们而言，从来不是关于某一种特定的费用。

So for us, it's never about a particular fee of one type or another.

最终，我们并不关注资产管理规模的目标。

Ultimately, we're not focused on an AUM goal.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这才是良好业绩的回报。

That is the reward for good performance.

只要我们做出最佳的投资决策，并且真正作为顶尖的合作伙伴为客户提供服务，这才是推动我们业务前进的关键。

And as long as we are making the best investment decisions and showing up, frankly, as a best in class partner for our clients, that is what drives our business forward.

让我们聊聊财富渠道，这是你在黑石职业生涯早期投入一些时间的领域。

So let's talk a little bit about the wealth channel, which is where where you focus some of your time early in your career at Apollo.

告诉我们过去二十年来这一领域发生了哪些变化，以及有哪些类型的客户会出现在这里。

Tell us how this has changed over the past twenty years, and tell us a little bit about what type of clients show up there.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，财富业务，我在摩根大通的早期阶段就看到了。

So, you know, the the wealth business, I saw certainly in my very early days of JPMorgan.

但在我在阿波罗的前十六年多时间里，私人银行或财富管理业务实际上只是例外，而非常态。

But then for my first kind of sixteen plus years at Apollo, the private bank or or wire was really more the exception than the rule.

这是一种间歇性的合作关系。

It was a a more of a episodic type of of relationship.

但从大约四五年前开始，阿波罗的每个人都彻底转变了态度，将其视为一项战略承诺。

That all completely transformed into a strategic commitment from, from all of us at at Apollo starting about four or five years ago.

因此，当马克·罗南接任首席执行官时，所有条件都成熟了，我们开始打造一项与机构业务相辅相成的财富管理业务。

So when Mark Rowan took the reins as CEO, all the stars aligned to build a wealth business to complement the institutional.

而这一决策必须自上而下，由首席执行官带头推动，因为它是一项战略性的举措。

And that that decision truly needed to come from the top, CEO on down, because it is strategic.

如果你要把它做好，它就不是一次性的交易行为。

It's it's not transactional if you're going to do it well.

它需要对这一渠道做出长期承诺。

It needs to be a long term commitment to to the channel.

在我看来，真正能够出色地参与并做好这件事的公司其实寥寥无几。嗯。

And in my view, there are actually only a small number of firms that can really show up and do this well Mhmm.

与所有参与财富管理的金融中介机构合作。

In partnership with, with all the financial intermediaries involved with wealth.

我之所以这么说，是因为你需要了解，这是一项极其庞大的工程。

And the reason I say that is, when you look at what's required, it's a pretty massive lift.

你需要确保建立正确的关系，并在全球范围内配备团队，以在不同渠道和地域开展工作。

You need to make sure that you build out the right relationships and you need the team globally in place to do that across channels and geographies.

你需要确保产品组合足够丰富，以便与我们的投资能力相匹配，同时也要确保为合适的客户配备合适的结构。

You need to make sure that the product mix is extensive enough so that you're relevant as it pertains to our investment capability, but you want to make sure that you're showing up with the right structures for the right clients.

然后还有教育层面。

Then there's the educational component.

还有客户服务。

There's the servicing.

还有技术。

There's technology.

例如，我们仅在财富管理技术投资方面，就从资产负债表中投入了十亿美元，以确保我们与那些能推动行业发展的公司建立合作关系并进行投资。

For example, we have spent actually a billion dollars, $1,000,000,000 from our balance sheet in wealth tech investments alone to make sure that we're partnering and investing in firms that will help the industry.

所以我认为，能够很好地做到这一点并真正满足高净值客户投资需求的机构非常少。

So I think there are very few that can do that well and truly meet the wall clients where with in order to meet their portfolio needs.

那么在这一渠道中，家族办公室、高净值客户和主权基金，你们是否也通过其他中介机构如经纪公司或注册投资顾问（RIAs）进行销售？

So within that channel, family offices, high net wealth, sovereign funds, are you also selling through other intermediaries like brokerage firms or RIAs?

能给我们稍微讲讲这方面的情况吗？

Tell us a little bit about that.

是的。

Yes.

财富管理领域的渠道包括私人银行和大型券商作为一个渠道，独立机构则包括RIAs和独立经纪交易商，家族办公室也属于我们财富管理范畴的一部分。

So the channels represented in wealth include the private banks and wires as one channel, the independents, which includes RIAs and independent broker dealers, Family office is also kind of under our our wealth umbrella.

这是针对超高净值客户的部分，我们有选择性地覆盖。

That's the ultra high net worth space, selectively.

此外，我们在美国以外的欧洲、中东、非洲以及亚洲地区也有重点布局。

And then we have geographic focus, you know, outside of of The US across EMEA, and and Asia.

北美其余地区则由加拿大和拉美地区适当覆盖。

The rest of of North America is is covered, appropriately, out of Canada and LatAm.

所以这些渠道都有所代表。

So so each of those channels are are represented.

尽管每个渠道都有差异，我们确实会根据不同资源和投入来应对它们，但它们的共同点都是帮助中介、顾问、银行家或家族办公室的首席投资官，无论是为他们底层客户的退休需求服务，还是针对特定财富水平提供服务。

And, while each has differences and we definitely approach them with different resourcing and and commitments, The common denominator of of all of them is helping the intermediary, the adviser or the banker or the CIO of the family office, either billed for retirement in the case of their underlying client or billed to a certain level of wealth.

因此，无论是像瑞银或摩根士丹利这样的大型券商及其顾问团队，还是其他类型的独立投资顾问，我们都希望为这些中介提供适合其平台和客户基础的产品，并确保我们能就半流动性资产以及提款需求进行深入沟通，认真倾听他们希望为客户提供的服务。

And so whether it's, you know, a wire like a a UBS or Morgan Stanley and their set of advisers or you name kind of an RIA, we wanna show up to that intermediary with offerings that are gonna work for their platform and, you know, their their base and make sure that we can speak to semi liquid as well as drawdown and really kind of listen closely to what they're looking to provide their clients.

我们在独立投资顾问（RIA）方面一直面临的挑战是，私募投资似乎每笔都各不相同。

So the challenge we always see on on the RIA side is on the privates, it seems everything is sort of a one off.

而在公开市场方面，托管、报告、合规和尽职调查都已标准化，几乎都是即插即用的。

And whereas on the public side, the custodianship is standardized, the reporting is standardized, all the compliance and due diligence is pretty, you know, turnkey.

请谈谈私募投资面临的挑战，因为这些投资并非完全相同，目前是否存在某种平台或正在开发的解决方案，能让私募投资变得更像公开证券那样标准化、即插即用？

Tell us about, a, the challenges of of all the private investments that may not all be identical, And is there a solution out there, a platform in development that might make this more like a turnkey, more public security like than private?

这是一段旅程，但我认为情况已经在改善。

It's a journey, but I think it's already getting better.

我预见一个未来，届时获取这些投资将变得更容易、更高效。

And I do see a world where it becomes so much easier, more efficient to access.

因此，如果我们看看我们已经看到的情况，比如在区间基金结构中，你可以通过顾问一键购买多种底层策略，整个过程就是点选操作。

And so if we look at what we're already seeing, you know, when we think about an interval fund structure, where you can buy many different underlying strategies, it's point and click through an advisor, but it's point and click.

不再需要我们过去所见的那种完整的认购流程。

There isn't kind of the fulsome subscription process that we've seen.

我们也在与道富银行等机构合作推进一些创新，例如将私募市场纳入ETF结构中。

There's innovation, which, you know, we have worked on in in partnership with State Street, for example, where there are ETF structures of which private markets are a part.

我认为，支持私募市场整体生态系统的基础设施和技术，正在从更偏向模拟的方式向数字化转变。

And I think the technology is moving from kind of more of an analog to digital Mhmm.

仅仅是在支撑私募市场整体生态的底层架构和基础设施方面。

In just kind of the the plumbing and the infrastructure that supports the the private markets overall ecosystem.

因此，确实有很多时间和精力致力于简化这些流程，我认为这将与一种已经开始的演变齐头并进——资产配置者正越来越多地希望管理人不仅能提供特定部分或特定策略，还能提供更全面的解决方案。

So there's there's definitely a lot of time and effort to try to simplify the processes, And I think it's going to go hand in hand with an evolution that's already starting where allocators are looking to to managers like ourselves to not only offer specific parts or specific strategies, but to, increasingly offer more holistic solutions.

因此，一种私募市场解决方案的组合，可能从多策略逐步发展为多策略、多管理人模式，并且这些方案不仅能部署在我们今天常见的经纪账户或自主投资账户中，还能纳入多种资本池、模型以及大量高度适用于私募市场的受托资本池中。

So a bundle of private market solutions, which could be multi strategy going to eventually kind of multi strategy, multi manager as as well, which can then be housed not only in the accounts, brokerage accounts or self directed that we see so often today, but in a range of pools of of capital and models and, a number of discretionary pools of capital that are highly applicable for private markets.

非常有趣。

Really, really interesting.

接下来，我们将继续与阿波罗公司首席客户与产品发展官斯蒂芬妮·德雷舍尔对话，探讨当前私募市场的情况。

Coming up, we continue our conversation with Stephanie Drescher, Apollo's chief client and product development officer, discussing the state of private markets today.

我是巴里·里塔尔茨。

I'm Barry Ritalts.

您正在收听彭博电台的《投资大师》节目。

You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.

我是玛丽·里特尔茨。

I'm Mary Rithultz.

您正在收听彭博电台的《投资大师》节目。

You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.

我今天的特别嘉宾是斯蒂芬妮·德雷舍尔。

My extra special guest is Stephanie Drescher.

她是私募巨头阿波罗公司的首席客户与产品发展官，负责监管高达8400亿美元的客户资产。

She is the chief client and product development officer at private investment giant Apollo, helping to oversee $840,000,000,000 in client assets.

我们正处在一个时代，私人信贷和私募股权曾经只是一个小众领域。

So we're living in a moment where private credit and private equity, they used to be a small niche.

情况已经不再是这样了。

That's no longer the case.

它们不仅已成为主流，而且是投资领域增长最快的领域之一。

Not only are they mainstream, they're one of the fastest growing parts of the investment world.

跟我们讲讲这个领域正在发生什么，以及是什么推动了这种转变。

Tell us a little bit about what's happening in that space and what's driving that shift.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，投资组合中公开和私人资产的构成已经发生了转变，这究竟意味着什么是安全或风险？

I think there's been a transformation in terms of public and private holdings in a portfolio, and what does it mean to be safe or risky?

嗯。

Mhmm.

过去，人们认为，由于某种资产在公开市场具有流动性，它本质上就是安全的，或者比私人市场中流动性较差的资产更安全。

I think historically, people have thought that because something was liquid in the public markets, it was inherently safe or frankly safer than something less liquid in the private markets.

当我们回顾2022年以及公开市场多次出现的动荡时刻时，现在人们越来越清楚地认识到，公开市场和私人市场都可能既安全又充满风险。

And as we look at 2022 and frankly many moments of dislocation in the public markets, I think there's now a a much clearer recognition that the public markets can be both safe and risky as can the private markets.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当我们看公开市场时，比如标普500指数，其表现乃至表现不佳的时刻，都高度集中在大约七只股票上。

Because when we look at the public markets, let's say the S and P 500, for example, the performance and frankly moments of underperformance have been so concentrated in terms of the attribution to roughly seven stocks.

有时人们会说十只股票。

Sometimes people will say 10 stocks.

但当公开市场如此集中，或者说缺乏多元化时，人们就会开始跳出框架思考：事实上，我的投资组合中股票部分的工具箱，是否应该同时包含公开和私人市场？

But when there's so much concentration or frankly lack of diversification in the public markets, it it creates a moment where people start to zoom out and say, frankly, what if the toolkit for my equity piece of the portfolio should have a combination of both public and private?

而且，我的投资组合中固定收益部分，是否也应同时包含公开和私人市场？

And frankly, what if my fixed income segment of the portfolio should have both public and private.

这样一来，顾问和家庭所拥有的工具箱就更加广泛，能够创造超额回报。

Then the toolkit for advisors and for families is much broader to create that excess return.

我们看到的是，人们希望将私募市场纳入投资组合，不仅仅作为传统六四组合的附加部分，而是将其视为股权和债务核心持仓的一部分，不再仅仅把另类投资视为公开股票和债券的替代品。

And what we've seen is the desire to incorporate the private markets, not just as an add on to an otherwise traditional sixty forty portfolio, but rather thinking of it as part of their core holdings in equity and debt, and think and now thinking simply of alternatives as an alternative to public stocks and bonds.

所以，六四组合变成了五三二，或者六二二，或者类似的比例？

So sixty forty becomes fifty thirty twenty, or sixty twenty twenty, or something along those lines?

是的。

Yeah.

或者，即使在股权和债务之间保持原有的比例分配，也可以在每个比例内同时纳入公开和私人市场选项，以最大化收益、增强多元化并降低波动性。

Or or it could even keep, whatever percentages are split between public between equity and debt, but have both the public and private options available within each of those percentages to maximize the return, to maximize diversification, and to reduce the volatility.

这是一场变革。

It's a game changer.

私人市场不再只是投资组合中的加分项。

It's no longer nice to have private markets in a portfolio.

而是为了实现客户长期财务目标所必需的组成部分。

It's a need to have in order to meet the long term financial goals of the client.

因此，在我职业生涯中——我的职业生涯始于上世纪九十年代中期，和你差不多——我不得不注意到，公开上市公司的总数大幅减少。

So one of the things I can't help but notice over the course of my career, which began more or less around the same time as yours in the mid nineties, is that the total number of public equities has shrunk dramatically.

威尔希尔5000指数目前大约有3400只股票。

The Wilshire five thousand is about 3,400 stocks.

标普500指数仍为502只股票，这是由于超级投票权股的存在。

The S and P 500 still 502 stocks because of a shares.