我们是否足够聪明以理解宇宙？人类可能是外星人的宠物吗？尼尔·德格拉斯·泰森谈模拟理论、为何你的上帝过于渺小，以及科学将如何引领我们走向未来

发送一个链接，你的专属隐私专家会处理删除事宜。

Send them a link, your dedicated privacy expert will handle the takedown.

无论是随机的法院记录还是可疑的人际搜索档案，他们都会让其消失。

Whether it's a random court record or a sketchy people search profile, they will make it disappear.

降低你遭遇诈骗和身份盗窃的风险。

Reduce your risk of scams and identity theft.

保护你的隐私。

Protect your privacy.

三步重获你的网络宁静。

Reclaim your online solitude in three steps.

创建账户，一次性授权，然后让Incogni为你处理其余事宜。

Create your account, give one time authorization, and let Incogni do the rest.

记住，如果他们找不到你，就无法伤害你。

Remember, they can't harm you if they can't find you.

添加最多三个电子邮件、地址和电话号码，以发现更多隐藏的档案。

Add up to three emails, addresses, and phone numbers to uncover even more hidden profiles.

使用无限计划，您可以提交任何链接，然后看着它消失。

With the unlimited plan, you can send in any link and watch it vanish.

而且，完全无风险。

Plus, it's risk free.

随时可以取消。

Cancel any time.

如果您不满意，30天内全额退款。

Get your money back within thirty days if you're not satisfied.

骗子越来越聪明，但有了Incogni，您总是领先一步。

Scammers are getting smarter, but with Incogni, you're one step ahead.

他们是唯一获得德勤独立验证的数据删除服务，因为您的隐私值得有据可依。

They're the only data removal service independently verified by Deloitte because your privacy deserves proof.

用Incogni取回您的个人信息。

Take your personal data back with Incogni.

前往 incogni.com/mayim。

Head to incogni.com/mayim.

使用代码 mayim，M A Y I M，可享受年度计划六折优惠。

Use the code mayim, M A Y I M, to get 60% off an annual plan.

在 incogni.com/mayim 输入代码 mayim 即可。

That's code mayim at incogni.com/mayim.

看到一档本质上是关于那些崇拜尼尔·德葛拉司·泰森的人的电视剧逐渐发展，感觉如何？

What was it like to kind of see the evolution of a TV show that was essentially about the kind of people who dig Neil deGrasse Tyson?

我很高兴我的群体在演艺界有了代表。

I was delighted that my people have representation in the acting world.

你知道，能拍多少部警匪剧呢？

And it was I was you know, how many cop dramas can you show?

能拍多少部急诊室剧集呢？

How many, you know, emergency room show?

这些剧集里，有多少部能抵得上一部极客剧？

How many of these is worth one geek show?

明白吗？

Okay?

我觉得查克和比尔，比尔。

And I think Chuck and Bill Bill.

查克·格洛里，比尔。

Chuck Glory, Bill

普拉迪。

Prady.

普拉迪看到了一些唾手可得的机会，这些机会在其他无数个提案中很可能被决策者否决，但他却说：就选这个吧。

Prady, saw that there was low hanging fruit that probably would have been rejected in a dozen of other idea proposals to the gatekeepers of what gets aired and what doesn't, and say, here it is.

会有科学家出场，但没人听得懂他们在说什么，同时又会有笑话，人人都会笑。

There'll be scientists and no one will know what they're talking about, and there'll be jokes and everyone will laugh.

就是这样。

It's like, right.

对吧？

Okay?

我很高兴这部剧不仅仅只是 mildly successful。

And I'm so glad that it wasn't just a mildly successful show.

这是有史以来最成功的节目之一。

It was one of the most successful shows ever.

你知道，《吉甘岛》播了三季。

And, you know, Gilgan's Island went three seasons.

让我们提醒一下自己这一点。

Shall we I remind us of this.

好的。

Okay.

最初的《星际迷航》播了三季。

The original Star Trek went three seasons.

哇。

Wow.

如果你看看第三季的一些剧集，你就会明白为什么它只播了三季。

And if you look at some of the episodes in that third season, you're reminded why it only went three seasons.

而你们却播了八到九季。

And you guys went eight, nine seasons.

不。

No.

我们播了十二季。

We went twelve.

十二季吗？

Twelve, was it?

我们常说，到结尾时我们就像拿到了毕业戒指。

We would say we were like we we got graduation rings at the end.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

这就是十二季了。

There is the 12.

我们就像十二年级的学生。

We were like twelfth graders.

十二年级的学生。

Twelfth graders.

只是恭喜一下。

Just congratulations.

自那以后，我就没再见过你了。

I haven't, you know, seen you since then.

我的意思是，我只是很高兴能参与其中，但你知道，有你和斯蒂芬·霍金这样的嘉宾，我们确实请到了一些了不起的人物。

Well, I mean, I I was just happy to be along for the ride, but, you know, having you on and and Stephen Hawking I mean, we had some incredible people on.

还有威廉·夏特纳。

William Shatner as well.

威廉·夏特纳，还有

William Shatner and

阿卜杜勒-贾巴尔。

Akareem Abdul Jabbar.

我的天啊。

My god.

我的意思是，我们还请到了大部分《星际迷航》宇宙的人物。

I mean, we also we had kind of like most of the Star Trek world,

那正是

which was

像比尔·普拉迪那种风格，你知道的。

like a Bill Prady, you know, kind of thing.

最后一件事，如果我，是的。

One last thing, if I Yes.

当然。

Sure.

因为当我作为一个粉丝狂热地谈论这个节目时，这个节目所采取的转折，对其他任何节目来说都可能已经是在强行拉低水准了。

Just because as I'm as I'm, you know, fanboy ing on on the show, the that show took turns that for any other show might have been jumping the shark.

明白吗？

Okay?

你知道，你的主角对一个他高攀不起的女性产生了兴趣，这其中有一种张力。

You know, there is your main character interested in a woman who's out of his league, and there's a tension there.

你不会

You don't

你没必要这样谈论我。

have to talk about me like that.

我就在这儿。

I'm right here.

哦，你在说佩妮。

Oh, you're talking about Penny.

我明白了。

I get it.

所以那里存在着性张力。

And and so there's sexual tension there.

有一种尴尬感，而这推动了剧情发展。

There's awkwardness, and that propels scripting.

当然。

Sure.

你打算让他们的关系发展下去，然后让他们结婚吗？

You're gonna consummate that and have them get married?

是的。

-Yeah.

不要在情景喜剧中这样处理。

Don't do that in a sitcom.

对。

-Right.

但他们确实这么做了。

But they did.

是的。

-Yeah.

他们确实这么做了。

Guys did it.

所有人都最终结婚了，我认为能在情景喜剧中让这一切合理发生而不让剧情倒退，是非常了不起的。

And everybody ended up married, and it was so that, I think, was heroic to get that to work in a sitcom and not have it pull you back.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，还记得我刚加入的时候吗？人们尤其对谢尔顿这个角色保护得特别严。

I mean, remember when I joined, you know, people were very, very protective over the Sheldon character in particular.

很多人觉得他不应该有女朋友，担心这会分散注意力。

And a lot of people felt like he shouldn't have a girlfriend, like it's gonna draw away.

我觉得编剧们找到了一种很好的方式来融入这个情节，希望如此。

I think the writers found a really nice way to tie it in, I hope.

这样做可能会导致剧情跳脱现实。

The chance of jumping the shark by doing that.

你曾经告诉过我，你可能不记得了，好吧？

And you told me, you probably won't remember this, okay?

你告诉我演这个角色的指导是：你要扮演一个女性版的谢尔顿，而不是一个男孩，那样你就不会干扰他，而是支持他，这样是对的。

You told me your instructions how to act your role was to be a girl Sheldon instead of If boy you then that then you become then you're not interfering with him and you are supporting him in Correct.

这真的非常成功。

That And worked brilliantly.

现在我今天得扮演一位女性版尼尔·德葛拉司·泰森了。

Now I have to be a female Neil deGrasse Tyson today.

来，给我一点你的声音。

Well, give me some of your voice.

火星。

Mars.

不，不。

No, no.

火星。

Mars.

我也会读成Uranus，因为我是个三年级学生。

I would pronounce it Uranus also because I am a third grader.

不，三年级学生就该读Uranus。

No, Uranus if you're third grade.

是的，就是这样。

Yes, that's

最后一个问题是：在你现在的科学家和同事中，你最想打电话通知谁这个消息？

the- One question to wrap this segment, is out of the scientists and colleagues that you have now, who do you wanna call and give the business to?

谁需要它来理解某事？

Who needs it to grasp something?

不。

No.

我不会那样到处想着事情。

I wouldn't I I I don't run around thinking that way.

我会为一部情景喜剧这么做。

I'll do it for a scripted sitcom.

你不必公开分享它。

You don't have to publicly share it.

肯定没问题。

There's gotta be no problem.

我现在悄悄告诉你，但别告诉任何人。

I'll tell you secretly now, but don't tell anybody.

好吧，也许我们会在所有的问题中谈到这一点。

Well, maybe we'll get to it in all of the questions that we have.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以在和你相处的这段时间里，嗯。

So in the time that we have with you Mhmm.

你知道，显然，你确实这么做。

You know, obviously, you you do this.

你进行演讲。

You speak.

你进行教育。

You educate.

我努力把宇宙带到地球上。

You I try to bring the universe down to Earth.

对。

Correct.

你努力把宇宙带到地球上。

You try to bring the universe down to Earth.

我们想做的是，你知道的，我们最近一年来谈了很多，尤其是关于科学与灵性之间的交集。

And what we wanted to do is, you know, we we've talked a lot, especially in the last year or so, about sort of this intersection between science and spirituality.

有哪些事情是奇幻的？

What are some of the things that are fantastical?

它们背后的科学原理是什么？

What's the science behind them?

所以我们打算逐一探讨一些话题，看看哪些能引起你的兴趣。

So we're just kind of gonna go through some topics and see what strikes your fancy.

来吧。

Bring it on.

听起来不错？

Sound good?

太棒了。

Beautiful.

好的。

Alright.

来吧。

Bring it on.

当然，我先要说明一下

And there's obviously And I'm gonna preface

十五年前，我会以一种疏离、轻视的态度来谈论灵性或宗教。

that by saying, not ten, fifteen years ago, I would enter a conversation about spirituality or religion in a kind of a distance, discounted way.

然后我逐渐成熟，摆脱了那种态度。

And then I had to mature out of that.

我的意思是，我是一名教育者。

And what I mean by that is I'm an educator.

人们会带着真诚、坦率的想法、问题和担忧来找我，关于他们的生活、成长经历、在乎的事物和价值观。

And people come to me with sincere, honest thoughts, questions, concerns about their lives, how they were raised, what they care about, what they value.

我意识到，我欠他们一个更细致、更深入的回应，而不仅仅是问：‘有证据吗？’

And I I realized I owed them a more nuanced, more more thoughtful reply than just, Is there evidence for it?

别轻易丢弃它。

Just chuck it.

所以

So

然后我花了不少时间阅读，用“文学”这个词合适吗？

I then spent quite a bit of time reading is literature the right word?

不。

No.

阅读世界各地的宗教小册子。

Reading tracts, religious tracts all around the world.

比如，我家里有一本《托拉》。

Know, Hindu, have a copy of the Torah at home, for example.

这非常流行。

It's very popular.

我收藏了耶和华见证人每次塞到我门里的所有传单。

I have every pamphlet that was left at my door by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

他们还做了一些稍微不同的事情。

They also do something slightly different.

你知道的。

You know?

所以我有一整架这样的书。

And so I have a shelf of that.

所以我有约瑟夫·史密斯的记载，是的。

And so I just I have Joseph Smith's account Yeah.

关于摩门教的。

For the Mormons.

没错。

Yep.

因此，当有人来找我时，我能理解他们的思维模式。

And so that way, when someone comes to me, I have some sensitivity to to their wiring.

我们本来不打算从这里开始的。

We weren't gonna start here.

但既然你无意中提到了这个话题，我很想把这个当作一个框架，因为我感兴趣的是不同传统——我把学术传统也算在内——之间的差异有多大。

But but since you kind of opened the door to that, I I'd love this as a sort of framework because one of the things that I'm interested in is how much different traditions, and I include academic traditions in that.

我们人类在这个星球上的功能，在很大程度上是试图弄清楚我们从哪里来、为何在此、以及我们将去往何方。

How much our function as humans on this planet is to try and figure out where we came from, why we're here, and where we're going.

在我看来，科学也是一种某种意义上的宗教。

And to me, science is another religion of sorts.

对吧？

Right?

它是一套信仰体系。

It's a it's a set of beliefs.

它是一套理论。

It's a set of theories.

它是一套思考和处理问题的方式。

It's a set of ways to think and approach things.

许多宗教传统都在试图解答这些问题。

So many of the religious traditions are trying to figure out the answers to these things.

其中一些具有一定的科学依据。

Some have some scientific merit.

你对这三大问题的整体看法是什么？

What is your general perspective, right, on trying to frame those three questions?

我们从哪里来？

Where did we come from?

我们为什么在这里？

Why are we here?

我们将去往何方？

And where are we going?

在科学的方法和工具出现之前，整个世界都是一个谜。

Before the methods and tools of science were available to us, the whole world was a mystery.

你知道，为什么会有风暴？

You know, why is there a storm?

哦，波塞冬发怒了。

Oh, Poseidon has risen up.

一道闪电击中了。

There's a lightning bolt that struck.

你知道吗，即使回到十九世纪早期，本杰明·富兰克林在研究闪电及其运作原理和吸引方式时，还发明了避雷针。

You know, even go back to the early nineteenth century even, when Ben Franklin is learning about lightning and how it operates and what attracts it and he events the lightning rod.

现在你把避雷针装在你的建筑物上，就能保护它不被摧毁。

And now you put that on your your building and it protects you from getting destroyed.

但在那之前，教堂经常被闪电击中。

But before then, churches would get hit by lightning bolts.

明白吗？

Okay?

如果被击中的是你的教堂，而不是我的教堂，那就说明……

And if it was your church and not my church, there was.

你传的福音有问题，是上帝在提醒你。

You're you're preaching the wrong gospel there, but God let you know.

因此，无论是一神教还是多神教，人们都用神灵来解释那些他们无法掌控的现象。

And so so divinity of all stripes, be it monotheistic or polytheistic, was the account that people conjured to explain that which they had no control over.

而科学逐渐兴起，这些解释一个个都被写进了史册。

Science rises up and one by one, these are put in the record books.

明白吗？

Okay?

没人会责怪波塞冬，或者他的罗马版本是谁？

No one is blaming Poseidon or or who's the the Roman version of that?

尼普顿。

Neptune.

没人会把三叉戟归咎于他。

No one is blamed with the Trident.

所以，这一直是趋势，而且这种趋势一直持续到今天。

So so that has been the trend and that trend continues to this day.

因此，我偶尔被准确地引用过下面这句话。

And so I have been quoted occasionally accurately as with the following statement.

如果你认为，上帝就是科学尚未涉足的地方。

If to you, God is where science has yet to tread.

明白吗？

Okay?

因为我会说，你知道，所有证据都指向大爆炸。

Because I would say, you know, we have all evidence points to the Big Bang.

有人会问，但大爆炸之前又是什么情况呢？

Someone would ask, but what was around before the Big Bang?

我说，我不知道。

I said, I don't know.

有很多顶尖人士在研究这个问题。

Got top people working.

一定有什么东西在那里。

Something had to be there.

是上帝吗？

Was it God?

明白吗？

Okay?

在科学尚未涉足的地方，把上帝或某种神圣力量放进去的冲动非常强烈。

The urge to put God or some divine power in a place where science has yet to tread is huge.

人们已经这样做了数千年了。

It's been we've been at people have been doing that for thousands of years.

确实如此。

Literally.

是的。

Yes.

明白？

Okay?

牛顿也这么做过。

Newton did it.

托勒密也这么做过。

Ptolemy did it.

让我带你回到一月。

I'll give you let's go back to a d January.

托勒密。

Ptolemy.

他开创了地心说的世界观。

He pioneered the the geocentric understanding of the world.

地球在中心，所有天体都围绕地球运转。

Earth in the middle, everybody's going around Earth.

你必须把行星放在本轮上，因为行星偶尔会向左移动，然后减速、停止，再向右移动。

You had to put planets on epicycles because panace planets occasionally go to the left and then they slow down, stop and then they go to the right again.

他们为此创造了一个术语。

They invented a word for that.

他们称之为逆行。

They called it retrograde.

明白吗？

All right?

那么，你能解释这一切吗？

So, do you explain all of that?

你有这些本轮。

You have these epicycles.

所以，你就在这里。

So, there you are.

你知道他在他最伟大的著作的页边空白处写了什么吗？

You know what he said in the margin of his greatest work where he lays all this out?

他亲手写道：我知道我们生而凡俗、转瞬即逝，但当我随心所欲地追踪天体的曲折运行时，我的双脚便不再触碰大地。

He hand wrote, I know that we are mortal by nature and ephemeral, but when I trace at my pleasure, the windings to and fro of the heavenly bodies, I no longer touch earth with my feet.

我站在宙斯面前，尽情享用仙馔玉液。

I stand in the presence of Zeus himself and take my fill of ambrosia.

他深深感受到了。

He's feeling it.

明白吗？

Okay?

显然，这并不是犹太-基督教的上帝，而是希腊的神。

Now that was obviously not the Judeo Christian god that was the hit the Greek god.

他是一位希腊博学者。

He was a Greek polymath.

但他这是在将某种他尚未真正理解的事物归因于神圣影响。

But that's him appealing to divine influence on something he doesn't really yet understand.

就连艾萨克·牛顿也会这么做。

And I even Isaac Newton would do this.

所以，这连有史以来最杰出的头脑都无法避免。

So so this doesn't escape the most brilliant minds there ever was.

而这种现象一直持续到今天。

And it continues basically to this day.

但今天它的表现形式略有不同。

But it manifests slightly differently today.

现在人们四处宣扬，哲学家们称这种现象为‘间隙之神’。

Now people go around so so the philosophers call this the god of the gaps.

明白吗？

Okay?

因此，我对这种说法的回应是：如果你认为上帝就是科学尚未涉足的领域，那么上帝就不过是科学无知的不断后撤的角落。

And so my reply to that was, if to you God is where science has yet to tread, then God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance.

因为这是一个if语句，所以它本质上就是真的，毕竟它只是一个if语句。

And because that's an if statement, it's just sort of fundamentally true because it's an if statement.

人们，尤其是无神论者群体，一直在努力完全将我据为己有，但我始终保持一定距离。

What people have done, especially the atheist community, which is trying hard to fully claim me, but I keep some distance.

他们有时候简直像宗教狂热分子一样。

They're very, like, religious fanatics sometimes.

他们会抓住我说的每一句话。

They'll try to grab anything I say.

他们所做的就是删掉了那句引言的前半部分。

That's What they did was they left off the first part of that quote.

他们还印成了T恤。

And they have their t shirts.

他们让T恤上写着：上帝是不断退缩的科学盲区。

They have it it say, God is an ever receding pocket of sight.

尼尔·德葛拉司·泰森。

Neil deGrasse Tyson.

是的。

Yes.

那些话确实出自我的口，但它们前面跟着一个‘如果’。

Those words came out of my mouth, but it followed a If.

一个‘如果’语句。

An if statement.

这很重要。

That matters.

我并不是在直接断言上帝是什么。

I'm not just declaring what God is.

不。

No.

我说的是，如果你心中的上帝是这样的，那么就必须随之得出这样的结论。

I'm saying if God to you is this, then this has to follow.

因此，我不认为科学等同于其他理解世界的方式，因为科学不诉诸于神灵或任何神圣力量，而几乎所有其他宗教都如此。

So so I don't see science as equivalent to other attempts to understand the world because it does not appeal to a divinity, to to any divine forces whereas basically every other religion does.

所以我认为，这使它与其他方式区分开来。

So that distinguishes it, I think, from the rest.

现在，让我们快进到现代。

Now, fast forward to modern times.

你知道，发生了什么？

You know, what happens?

人们去参观金字塔，然后他们会想：他们是怎么办到的？

People go see the pyramids and then how did they do it?

我不知道。

I don't know.

一定是外星人帮忙了。

The aliens must have helped.

明白吗？

Okay?

所以你可以留意一下，外星人在人们的说法中出现得有多频繁。

So you just watch how often aliens show up in people's accounts.

所以我说，也许我们正进入一个‘间隙外星人’的时代，但这并不具备那种

So I I said maybe they're we're entering an era of aliens of the gaps, but that doesn't have the

所以

the So

所以我创造了一个新词。

I so I invented a new phrase.

无知之外星人。

Aliens of our ignorance.

所以今天有些人看到天空中有光在移动，我不知道那是什么，一定是外星人。

So you have people today who there's something we lights in the sky, moving it, I don't know what it is, must be aliens.

因此，在现代社会中，外星人正在取代上帝在我们无知时所扮演的角色。

So aliens are are supplanting the role that God had played in our ignorance in modern times.

但科学仍在前进。

But science pushes on.

是的，确实存在一些理论。

And, yes, there are theories.

“理论”这个词被误用了。

The word theory has been misused.

我不想责怪任何人，但让我正式说明一下什么是理论。

I don't want to blame people because but let me officially say what a theory is.

明白吗？

Okay?

你不能到处说：我有个理论，说 whatever。

You can't run around and say, I have a theory that whatever.

不，你那只是一个假设。

No, you have a hypothesis.

爱因斯坦有一个理论。

Einstein had a theory.

你有一个假设。

You have an hypothesis.

如果你有一个未经检验的想法，那只是一个假设。

If you have an idea that's not tested, it's a hypothesis.

一旦它经过测试、验证、反复验证，并以一种连贯的方式组织起世界中的现象，做出可验证的预测，那就是理论。

Once it's tested and verified and re verified and re verified and it organizes things that happen in the world in a coherent way, makes predictions that you can verify, that's a theory.

曾经我们称它们为定律，但今后我们更谦逊一些。

There was a day when we called them laws, but we're a little more humble going forward.

达尔文的进化论是人们

Darwin's theory of evolution is one that people

是的，不，这样叫也没问题。

Yeah, no, still It's fine.

我们仍然这么叫它。

We still call it that.

人们往往因为一些可以理解的原因，觉得只要用了‘理论’这个词，就意味着我们还在胡编乱造、一无所知。

People want to think just because and for for understandable reasons that when you use the word theory, well, we're still just making stuff up and we don't know.

我想说的是，量子理论从未被实验证明是错误的，但我们仍然称它为量子理论。

I'm saying quantum theory has never been shown to be experimentally wrong, but we still call it quantum theory.

我们称它为爱因斯坦的相对论。

We call it Einstein's theory of relativity.

我们不会称它为爱因斯坦引力定律。

We don't call it Einstein law of relativity.

这只是二十世纪的一种认识：一个在所有已测试方面都正确的理论，可能在边缘情况下会暴露出它的局限性。

It's just a twentieth century recognition that an idea that may be right in every way tested, there might be tests on the edge of it that show where it fails.

而且可能存在一种更深层次的理解，正等待着我们去发现。

And that there might be a deeper understanding That's awaiting what's going on now.

这正是牛顿和爱因斯坦之间发生的事情。

That's what happened between Isaac Newton and Einstein.

牛顿提出了运动定律和万有引力定律，他的理论是有效的。

Isaac Newton has the laws of motion, laws of gravity and it he's work it's working.

我们是靠着牛顿定律登上月球的。

We went to the moon on Newton's laws.

对。

Right.

然后我们发现，等等，如果引力非常强，或者你运动得非常快，牛顿定律就不适用了。

And then we find out, wait a minute, if the gravity is really strong or if you're moving really fast, Newton's laws don't work anymore.

我们得到了错误的答案。

We're getting the wrong answer.

到底发生了什么？

What's going on?

爱因斯坦说：我有答案了。

Einstein says, I got the answer.

这就是相对论。

It's relativity.

相对论在这些极端情况下能给出正确的答案。

And relativity gets you in those extreme places and it gets the right answer.

如果你把低速和弱引力代入爱因斯坦的方程，会发生什么？

What happens if you put low speeds and low gravity into Einstein's equations?

它们就变成了牛顿的方程。

They become Newton's equations.

所以并不是我们抛弃了牛顿，迎来了爱因斯坦。

So it's not like we're Newton's out, Einstein's in.

牛顿的理论被包含在一个更深层次的理解之中。

Newton is embedded within a deeper understanding.

因此，这就是理论引领我们走向未来的方式。

And so that's where theory carries us into the future.

我在想，科学在摒弃某些神秘、不可解释的事物时，是否走得太过遥远了？

I wonder, is there a place where science has gone too far in pushing out some of the mystical, some of the inexplicable?

我们是不是走得太过头了？

Have we gone too far?

当我声称科学永远不会走得太过遥远时，我是不是有偏见？

Am I biased when I say science can never go too far?

科学被构想和建立的目的是为了让我们这些脆弱的人类，更深刻地理解我们所生活的世界，这样我们就不会逃避神秘。

It is conceived and constructed to give we, feeble humans, a deeper understanding of the world in which we live so that we're not running away from mysterious.

卡尔·萨根的一本书的标题是《被恶魔缠绕的世界》，副标题尤为重要：《科学作为黑暗中的一支蜡烛》。

One of the titles of Carl Sagan's book was A Demon Haunted World subtitled importantly, Science as a Candle in the Dark.

没有科学，我们就在黑暗中徘徊，逃避着幽灵。

Without the science, we're wandering in the dark running away from ghosts.

我能告诉你我跟孩子们做了什么吗？

And can I tell you what I did with my kids?

我该承认这一点吗？

Should I admit this?

我不知道。

Don't know.

当他们还很小的时候。

When they were really little.

好吧。

Okay.

我妻子拥有数学物理学博士学位。

So my wife has a PhD in mathematical physics.

所以我们有两个在科学素养极高的极客家庭中长大的孩子。

So we have two kids who are being raised with science literate Nerds.

好吧。

Okay.

书呆子。

Nerds.

好吧。

Okay.

你知道吗，我们现在所处的时代，会不会有人指责你是书呆子？

You know, there's do we live in a time when someone will accuse you of being a nerd?

说吧，书呆子！

Say, nerd!

你知道我的回答是什么吗？

And you know what my reply is?

谢谢你的夸奖。

Thanks for the compliment.

是的。

Yep.

我就说这些。

That's all I'd say.

所以我希望他们不会害怕鬼魂。

So I wanted the I didn't want them to be afraid of ghosts.

明白吗？

Okay?

因为我还没有确信鬼魂真的存在过，他们当时还很小，所以我说：我要把你关进这个黑暗的壁橱里，然后关上门。

Because I'm not yet convinced that ghosts are So real or have ever been they were really young and so I said, I'm gonna put you in this closet, this dark closet and close the door.

明白吗？

Okay?

然后我会找一个怪物来试着撞开壁橱的门。

And then then I'm gonna get a monster to try to break into the closet.

所以，当然，那个人就是我，他们知道这是育儿手段。

So, of course, it's me and they know Parenting

由尼尔·德葛拉司·泰森所著。

by Neil deGrasse Tyson.

于是我关上壁橱门，走开了，他们开始哈哈大笑。

So, I close the closet and I go And they start laughing and laughing and laughing.

所以他们从来不会害怕转角处的黑暗，也不会害怕闹鬼的房子。

And so they've never been afraid of turning a corner of the dark or of a haunted house.

这让鬼屋少了很多乐趣，因为你根本不会相信那些吓人的东西。

It takes some of the fun out of haunted houses because you're just not buying it.

你知道的？

You know?

我什么都怕，因为我的父母曾和我一起躲进衣柜，还说：‘要是有个怪物……’

I'm scared of everything because my parents got into the closet with me and were like, what if a

怪物会不会进来？

monster got?

而且那个怪物还在那里。

And the monster was still there.

让我把另一半故事讲完。

Let me give let me give the other half of that.

是的，今天仍然存在一些谜团，人们喜欢这些，或者它们能带来一种……我们该怎么说呢？

Yes, there are mysteries today that people enjoy or or or it gives them a sense of of what what do we say?

一种对未知的感知。

A sense of not knowing everything.

这对一些人来说很重要。

And that's kind of important to some people.

他们不希望科学能知晓一切。

They don't want science to know everything.

他们不知道的是，在任何时刻，都还有无数未解的科学之谜存在。

What they don't know is at any given moment, there is no end of science mysteries that are still there.

不是还存在。

Not still there.

而是下一波科学之谜。

It's the next round of science mysteries.

问题不是衣柜里有没有鬼？

It's not are they ghosts in the closet?

不是。

No.

暗物质是什么？

Is it what is dark matter?

暗能量是什么？

What is dark energy?

我们如何从有机分子演化出自我复制的生命？

How do we go from organic molecules to self replicating life?

地球似乎对此毫不费力。

Earth seemed to have no trouble doing that.

我们仍然不知道如何在实验室中实现这一点。

We still don't know how to do that in the lab.

我们有顶尖的人才正在研究这个问题。

We have top people working on it.

大爆炸之前存在什么？

What was around before the Big Bang?

是否存在多重宇宙？

Is there a multiverse?

我们能制造出虫洞吗？

Will we ever make a wormhole?

这些都是谜团。

These are mysteries.

而且这些是所有科学领域中仍然存在的、没那么宏大的谜团。

And they're they're they're less grand mysteries that still exist in all the sciences.

所以我的观点是，是的，我正在摒弃一些你从小耳濡目染的宏大谜题，但我用其他谜题取代了它们，因为科学已经涉足这些领域，并给出了答案，而我们则转向了下一个问题。

So is so my issue here is, yeah, I'm getting rid of some of the some of the the magisterial mysteries that that you grew up with, but I'm replacing them with others because science has tread there and has come up with answers where we're moved on to the next question.

我们都对科学探索的前沿充满兴趣，并且一路追随。

We are all fascinated with the edges that science is exploring and and are along for that ride.

前沿永远存在，这是我对此最喜爱的一句话。

And the edges are always there and here's my favorite comment on that.

随着我们知识领域的扩大，我们无知的边界也在同步扩展。

As the area of our knowledge grows, so too does the perimeter of our ignorance.

再说一遍。

Say it again.

随着我们知识领域的扩大，我们无知的边界也随之扩大。

As the area of our knowledge grows, so too does the perimeter of our ignorance.

因为这就是已知与未知之间的边界。

Because that's the boundary between what we know and don't know.

所以对我来说，科学是一场永无止境的旅程。

So for me, science is like a forever thing.

我非常喜欢这个观点，如果我替一些人发声，他们会说：等等，科学有时过于教条，过于确信自己所知道的，反而偏离了真相。

I love this and if I give voice to some of the people who have said wait a second science is sometimes so dogmatic and so assured of what they know that they have missed the mark.

例如，当医生们声称身心完全分离，心灵不会影响身体时，我们现在却越来越多地发现，这两者远非如此，这种错误观念甚至误导了医学的发展。因此，他们正在呼吁科学家们保持开放和好奇，不断质疑我们已知的一切，并推动这些边界向前延伸。

For example, when medical doctors said the mind and body are totally separate and the mind never impacts the body and now we're showing more and more that those two things are far from the truth and actually have led medicine quite astray, then they're they're trying to plead to the scientists to sort of stay open and curious and, you know, challenge continually what we know and push those edges.

例如，像加博尔·马特这样的人，就提出了我们过去自以为了解自身免疫疾病成因的观点。

For example, you know, people like Gabor Mate, right, have introduced this notion that we used to think we know why autoimmunity happens.

我们认为自己知道癌症的成因，对吧？

We know why cancer happens, right?

我们认为自己知道糖尿病的成因。

We know why diabetes happens.

而且我们

And we

了解这个故事的很大一部分。

know a good chunk of the story.

但压力、环境与我们的生理之间的相互作用表明，构成科学家们试图理解的现象的因素要复杂得多。

But the interplay between, let's say, stress, the environment, right, and our physiology reveals that there is a much more elaborate combination of things that make up what, as scientists, we try and understand.

但有许多因素很难准确把握。

But there are many elements that are harder to put our finger on.

对吧？

Correct?

嗯，有几点。

So Mhmm.

有几点。

A couple of things.

嗯。

Mhmm.

首先，我在社交媒体上也说过这一点，就直接说出来吧。

First, and I've said this on social media just to put it out there.

物理学、天体物理学以及理解宇宙，远比理解人类的思维、身体和灵魂要简单得多。

Physics and astrophysics and understanding the universe is way easier than understanding the human mind, body and soul.

明白吗？

Okay?

所以我要把这一点说清楚。

So let me just make that clear.

人类的思维，它与自身以及身体的相互作用，天哪。

The the the the human mind and its interplay with itself and your body, oh my gosh.

这正是神经科学作为一个领域，相较于物理学和天文学如此年轻的部分原因。

It's part of the reason why neuroscience as a field is so young relative to physics and astronomy.

你知道，人们常说天文学是第二古老的职业。

You know, they say astronomy is the second oldest profession.

因此，我们受益于数千年来的杰出思想家为物理学、天文学和工程学做出的贡献。

So we've had the benefit of millennia of brilliant thinkers contributing to physics, astronomy, engineering.

你知道吗，金字塔是在五千年前建造的。

You know, the Pyramids were built, you know, five thousand years ago.

所以，我们人类在这一方面的进展之所以受限，是因为对人类身体的神圣性的尊重。

So so our our advances in human part of what resisted that was the the sanctity of the human body.

你不会仅仅为了探索就随意切开身体，尤其是人类的大脑。

You don't just cut open the body just to to explore, and especially not the human mind.

如果我错了请纠正我，因为这可是你的专业领域。

And correct me if I'm wrong because you are this is your business.

我们对大脑功能的很多了解，都来自于人们脑部受伤后，大脑受损区域所遗留下的功能表现。

A lot of what we learned about the functioning of the brain came from brain injuries to people and what what was left over after this part of the brain got damaged.

这可不是培养皿里的大脑。

So, this is not the brain in a petri dish.

这相当于在等待脑部损伤的发生，以便在下一次急诊室就诊时能学到一些东西。

This is waiting around for a brain injury to see what you'll learn on the next emergency room visit.

所以，我想明确一下这一点。

So, I just want to make that point clear.

其次，你可以举出无数类似的例子，就像刚才提到的那样，当时普遍认为是真理的东西，后来却被证明是错误的。

Second, there is no end of examples you can give such as the one just presented where there's a prevailing truth, let's call it, that would later be shown to be false.

我毫不怀疑地说，如果你回到那个时代，看看当时进行的研究，我敢保证，最终被证明是错误的那些观点，都从未经过实验验证。

I will say without hesitation that if you go back to that time and look at the research going on, I guarantee you whatever was the thing that was ultimately shown to be wrong was not experimentally verified.

我认为这是对的，很可能没错，我自己也做过一些研究，你觉得呢？

It was, I think this is true, it's probably true, I did a few things on my own, what do you think?

是的，这说得通，我们就这么定了。

Yeah, it makes sense, let's declare it.

因此，正是实验验证才使它成为真理。

And so it's the experimental verification that makes it true.

由于我提到的原因，对人体进行实验非常困难。

And it's very hard to experiment on the human body for the reasons I say.

而且

And the

人类的思维。

human mind.

这就是为什么所有例子，尤其是与人类相关的例子，最好的来源都是医学领域。

So that's why all and especially the human That's why your best examples of this are gonna come from the field of medicine.

明白吗？

Okay?

医生们否认这一点：让我在这具尸体上做手术，让我帮你接生。

Where doctors are in denial that you you let me operate on this cadaver, let me deliver your baby.

你洗手了吗？

And did you wash your hands?

没有。

No.

我为什么要洗手？

Why do I have to wash my hands?

医生的手。

The the doctor's hands.

明白吗？

Okay?

没有研究支持这一点。

There's no research supporting that.

因此，说‘哦，顺便说一下，地球曾经是平的，但现在不是了’，这其实是对科学的一种夸张 caricature。

And so it's kind of a caricature of science to say that, oh, and by the way, there's well, Earth was flat and then it's not flat.

抱歉，地球是平的这种观念和预期，早于望远镜的出现。

So, excuse me, Earth being flat, that knowledge and expectation predated the existence of telescopes.

明白吗？

Okay?

而且它也早于科学传统去验证你的观点——它看起来似乎是平的。

And it predated the tradition of science to test your It was it kinda looks flat.

它很可能就是平的。

It's probably flat.

它看起来就是这样，而且《圣经》也没有否认这一点。

Oh, it looks like and plus the Bible doesn't deny this.

我们处于一切的中心，所有东西都围绕着我们转。

We're in the center of the everything goes around us.

我们的词汇仍然保留着地心宇宙的表述。

We our vocabulary still preserves a geocentric universe.

我不会对你，玛咪说：明天地球旋转到什么时间，我们的视线才会看到太阳从地平线上升起？

What I don't say to you, Mayim, I don't ask you, oh, what time tomorrow does Earth rotate such that our sight line to the sun appears over the horizon?

不会。

No.

我们只会说：日出是什么时候？

We say, what time does the sunrise?

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

这是一种地心说的词汇表达。

That's a geocentric vocabulary word.

所以，这就是世界看起来的样子。

So so it's what the world looks like.

科学告诉我们，世界并不总是它看起来的样子，也不总是它表面上呈现的样子。

What science tells us is the world isn't always what it looks like and it isn't always what it seems.

所以这就是我对你的回答。

And so that's my reply to you.

但为了向医疗界致意，你知道原始人时期的预期寿命是多少吗？

But just to give a shout out to the medical community, you know what our life expectancy was in cavemen?

明白吗？

Okay?

有一半人生下来

Half of everyone born

他们并没有经历更年期。

Wasn't suffering from menopause.

另一种说法就是这样。

That's another way to say it.

每个人一生都保持生育能力。

Everyone was fertile their whole life.

我们在20岁之前完成了最好的工作。

We did our best work before 20.

有一半人生下来活不到30岁。

Half of everyone born was dead by the age of 30.

一半。

Half.

明白吗？

Okay?

原始人，那是上万年前的事了。

Caveman, that's ten thousand, twenty thousand years ago.

再快进到1850年或1840年。

Fast forward to 1850, 1840.

当时世界上有一半的人在35岁前就去世了。

Half of every in the world was dead before they turned 35.

而那个时代的人吃的都是有机食品。

And everyone in that time was eating organic.

而且当时的水是纯净的，这不公平。

And the water ran pure That's not fair.

游戏就是这样，这是事实。

The game went it's true.

这不公平。

That's not fair.

所有这些都可能是真的，但并不一定公平。

All of that is true does not have to be fair.

明白吗？

Okay?

它们都是人工合成的。

They're all inorganic.

那么在19世纪后期，他们

And so what happens in the late eighteen hundreds They

不知道医生在接触病人前要洗手

didn't know to wash their hands before a doctor put his hands

但到了19世纪后半叶，细菌理论逐渐成熟了。

inside But their The second half of the nineteenth century, germ theory is it is matures.

我们有巴斯德，他发展了这一理论。

We have Pasteur who develops this.

我们将显微镜应用于生物学需求，从1840年到现在，我们的预期寿命翻了一番。

We bring the microscope to our biological needs and between eighteen forty and today, we have doubled your life expectancy.

所以，针对你们所有的评论，实际上，思想正在影响身体，而医生们却一无所知，他们简直昏了头，不管发生什么，预期寿命的提升并不是因为人们的饮食方式。

So with all of your comments, well, mind actually is affecting the body and the doctors were clueless, they had their head up their ass, whatever else was happening, that increase in life expectancy is not because of how people are eating.

这是因为医学。

It's because of medicine.

这是因为科学。

It is because of science.

我之所以走上这条思路，源于《纽约客》的一幅漫画。

And and I my path into this description came from a New Yorker comic.

明白吗？

Okay?

作者是艺术家格雷戈里。

By the art the artist Gregory.

我知道这是他的名字或姓氏，但漫画里写的是格雷戈里署名。

I know it's his first or last name, but says Gregory assigns it.

有两个穴居人坐在火堆对面，其中一个对另一个说，你知道吗，他们这么说。

There's two there are two cavemen sitting across from the fire and one says to another, you know, they they say this.

他们说我们的水很纯净，猎物唾手可得，人人都吃健康、吃有机食品，但没人能活过三十岁。

They say our our water runs pure, our game is free game, and everyone is eating healthy, eating organic, but no one lives past thirty.

所以科学在这里至关重要，它深深融入我们的生活，以至于我们很容易忽视它的存在。

And so so so science matters here and it's it is so fundamentally infused in our lives, it is so easy to take it for granted.

这就是我的回应。

That's my reply.

哦，还有一件事。

Oh, one other thing.

我知道这有点相关。

I know it's kind of related.

你没提，但我还是要说出来。

You didn't say it, I'm gonna bring it up.

有些人说，科学永远无法理解爱，比如。

There are people who say, science will never understand love, for example.

如果不是爱，那就是别的什么东西。

That's if if not love, then something else.

把你最喜欢的东西填进去。

Put put put in your favorite thing there.

于是我会对这样的人说：这是因为你不希望科学 ever 理解爱吗？

Someone to then I go I say to such a person, is that because you don't want science to ever understand love?

我意识到，他们希望科学有其界限。

And I realize they want science to have boundaries.

作为一名科学家，我不认为这是真实存在的。

And as a scientist, I don't see that as a real thing.

我可以想象一个实验，让科学彻底理解爱。

And I can imagine an experiment where science then fully understands love.

我可以随便编一个。

I I can make one up.

例如，我们发现当你看一幅画时，你会对它产生深厚的感情。

For example, we we find out that you you look at a painting and you feel great affection for it.

不是性爱，而是真正的喜爱。

Not sexual love, but really Sure.

你爱这幅画，而且

You you you love the painting and

我看画时感受到什么，跟你没关系。

It's none of your business what I feel when I look at a painting.

在英语里，我们不区分仅仅因为非常喜欢某物而产生的爱，和感官浪漫的爱，所以你看着一幅画，然后再次看它，感觉依然如故。

In English, don't distinguish between just loving something because you like it a lot and and and sensual romantic But so you look at a painting and then you look at the same painting and you feel the same way.

我们做了一些脑部扫描，发现你们两人脑中被激活的区域是相同的。

And we do some brain scans and the same part of the brain is being activated in both of you.

我们对100个人进行这项实验，或者如果不是同一幅画，而是他们各自有感情依恋的任何东西。

And we do this experiment, 100 people, or if it's not the same pain, it's just something that they have affection for.

明白吗？

Okay?

我们找到了大脑中的爱的中心。

We found the love center of the brain.

好的，现在让我们进入你的大脑，那里有一些你根本不关心、没有任何感觉的东西，然后我在你看着它的时候挠它。

Okay, so now let's go into your brain and there's something that you don't care, you don't have any feelings about, then I tickle it while you're looking at it.

然后你开始说：我爱这个。

And then you talk about it say, I love this.

我以前从未意识到过。

I never realized it before.

在我挠你的大脑之后，你会自动这样做。

And you do this automatically after I tickle the brain.

一旦我们知道了大脑的这个中心以及如何控制它，那就是科学地理解爱。

Once we know the brain center and how we can control it, that's science understanding love.

然后我们继续下一个问题。

And then we move on to the next question.

这就像一场考试，看这种事是否真的会发生，我不知道。

That's an exam whether that'll ever happen, I don't know.

但我认为这是完全合理的

But I think It's a completely plausible

而且我认为，爱就是一个很好的例子。

Well, and I and I think also, I mean, love, it's a good example.

我认为，确实有一些组成部分是我们可以理解的。

I think that there's there are absolutely certain components that we can understand.

那种造就吸引和联结的交响乐，是由多种系统组合而成的，对吧？

The sort of symphony that creates attraction and connection, right, is a combination of a variety of systems, right?

那就涉及大脑的多个部分，没错。

Then it's more than one part of the brain, Correct.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我们非常感谢。

We appreciate it.

作为一位天体物理学家，您如此慷慨，真是令人钦佩。

It's very generous of you as an astrophysic.