格蕾丝·赫尔比格：居家喜剧驱散焦虑

真正的改变就发生在这里。

That's where the real change happens.

我们的仪式带来的远不止是对话。

Our ritual delivers way more than just talk.

无论你是情侣、个人、父母、LGBTQ群体，还是在异地摸索关系，我们的仪式都会契合你的现状。

Whether you're a couple, an individual, a parent, LGBTQ, figuring things out from a distance, our ritual meets you where you are.

真实的支持，真实的工具，按你的节奏实现真正的改变。

Real support, real tools, real change on your terms.

此外，与传统心理咨询不同，我们的仪式应用在两次咨询之间提供视频系列和练习。

Also, unlike traditional therapy, our ritual app offers video series and exercises in between sessions.

会员自行完成练习、独立取得进展，这有助于整体进步。

Members do the work, make progress independently, which contributes to overall progress.

视频系列探讨了多种主题。

The video series discusses a variety of topics.

例如，孩子出生后的爱情，帮助你作为父母和伴侣适应新的常态。

For example, love after kids, helping you navigate a new normal growing as parents and partners.

选择我的视频系列有助于个人建立更好的自我关系，从设定界限、培养健康的互动模式，到从自我怀疑走向自我信任。

Choosing me video series helps individuals build a better relationship with themselves from setting boundaries and creating healthy relationship patterns to moving from self doubt to self trust.

如果你有任何需求，请访问 ourritual.com，填写一份简短的问卷。

Really anything you need, please go to ourritual.com, answer a short questionnaire.

使用优惠码 breaker 20，首月享受八折优惠。

Use the coupon code breaker 20 for 20% off your first month.

访问 ourritual.com，使用优惠码 breaker 20，首月享八折优惠。

That's ourritual.com, code breaker 20 for 20% off your first month.

我的 MB Alex 分析由 Kochava 赞助。

My MB Alex breakdown is supported by Kochava.

你知道吗，我在2026年为自己设定了几个与健康相关的目标，比如继续练习跆拳道来保持运动，真正为自己打造一个成功而健康的一年。

You know, I've set a few wellness related goals for myself in 2026, like continuing to move my body with Taekwondo, and really trying to set myself up for a successful, healthy year.

乔纳森是我的监督伙伴。

Jonathan's my accountability buddy.

我们共同努力，互相激励，保持目标一致。

We're working together to keep ourselves motivated and on target.

幸运的是，Kochava 帮助我们在坚持这些健康目标的同时感觉良好。

And luckily, Kochava helps us actually feel good while sticking to those wellness goals.

自从将其加入我们的日常后，我们注意到全天都保持着稳定充沛的精力。

Since adding it to our routine, we have noticed a steady all day kind of energy.

这种精力让你能顺利完成早晨的锻炼，不会中途崩溃，还能让你在一天剩下的时间里保持耐心、专注和当下感。

The kind that gets you through a morning workout without crashing halfway through and still leaves you patient, focused, and present for the rest of the day.

由于含有蛋白质和电解质，我们的锻炼感觉更有力、更有能量，恢复也更顺畅，肌肉酸痛不再拖慢我们的步伐。

Our workouts feel stronger and more fueled thanks to the protein and electrolytes and recovery feels smoother so that sore muscles don't slow us down.

膳食纤维、益生菌和酶帮助我们的消化系统保持顺畅，B族维生素和必需矿物质则支持健康的代谢和清晰专注的思维。

The fiber, probiotics and enzymes keep our digestion on track and B vitamins and essential minerals support a healthy metabolism and clear headed focus.

我注意到下午头脑模糊的时刻变少了，应对无穷无尽待办事项时的精神耐力却增强了。

I've noticed fewer afternoon brain fog moments and more mental stamina for my endless to do lists.

维生素C、锌和益生菌等免疫支持营养素让我们更具抵抗力。

Immune supporting nutrients like vitamin C, zinc, and probiotics make us more resilient.

我喜欢把我的Cachaba与冷冻水果、手边任何一种植物奶，再加上一点花生酱混合在一起，增加持久的能量。

And I love blending my cachaba with frozen fruit, whatever nut milk that I've got on hand, and a little peanut butter for extra staying power.

而且我感觉精力充沛，而不是一小时后又疲倦或饥饿。

And I feel fueled instead of sluggish or hungry an hour later.

Kachava 是那种罕见的、真正能做到一切的产品。

Kachava is one of those rare finds that actually does it all.

它是一款由高品质成分制成的全营养奶昔。

It's an all in one nutrition shake made with seriously high quality ingredients.

不含填充物，不含人工香料，只有纯净的植物性能量，不含转基因成分、大豆、动物制品、麸质和防腐剂。

No fillers, no artificial flavors, just clean plant based fuel with no GMOs, no soy, no animal products, no gluten, and no preservatives.

但它的味道依然绝佳。

But somehow it still tastes amazing.

我特别喜欢椰子红莓味，你也会喜欢的。

I love the coconut acai flavor, and you will too.

只需两勺，就能提供25克植物蛋白、6克纤维，以及绿叶、适应原和你身体真正需要的所有营养成分。

Just two scoops gives you 25 grams of plant based protein, six grams of fiber plus greens, adaptogens, and all the good stuff that your body actually craves.

坚持你的健康目标。

Stick with your wellness goals.

前往 kachava.com。

Go to kachava.com.

使用代码 breakdown 享受 15% 折扣。

Use code breakdown for 15% off.

这就是 Kachava。

That's Kachava.

Kachava.dotcom。

Kachava.dotcom.

代码 breakdown。

Code breakdown.

我的 MB Alex breakdown 由 Superpower 赞助。

My MB Alex breakdown is supported by superpower.

当我步入某个年龄段时——这一点我经常在播客里提到——我做了很多次看医生的预约，试图弄清楚为什么我身体感觉不对劲。

When I became a woman of a certain age, something that I've discussed here frequently on the podcast, I had a ton of doctor's appointments to try and pinpoint, like, why I wasn't feeling right in my body.

但通常，我们被告知一切正常，或者只是压力大，又或者这就是变老的感觉。

But often, we're told everything's normal or you're just stressed or that's what getting older feels like.

没有荷尔蒙检测，没有真实数据，也没有计划。

No hormone testing, no real data, no plan.

非常非常令人沮丧。

Very, very frustrating.

我们在这里要告诉你们，Superpower 提供的是完全不同的体验，正在为女性健康带来变革，正如我这件运动衫上所显示的那样。

We're here to tell you that superpower is a completely different experience changing the game for women's health as you can see on my sweatshirt.

Superpower 会派一名持证专业人士到你家中。

Superpower sends a licensed professional to your home.

你也可以前往附近的实验室。

You can also visit a nearby lab.

只需一次简单的抽血，就能检测超过100种生物标志物，包括详细的荷尔蒙检测，让你真正了解你女性身体内部的变化，而不是靠猜测。

One simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, including detailed hormone testing so that you can actually see what is changing in your female body instead of guessing.

这对于正在经历围绝经期、绝经期，或在考虑是否需要接受荷尔蒙替代疗法的女性来说尤其有力。

This is especially powerful for women who are navigating perimenopause, menopause, or trying to decide if hormone replacement therapy might make sense for you.

他们的应用程序将这些洞察分解为女性荷尔蒙、甲状腺健康、新陈代谢、营养缺乏、炎症，甚至你的真正生物年龄，让你清楚了解身体的实际运作状况，并追踪随时间的改善情况。

Their app breaks down the insights into female hormones, thyroid health, metabolism, nutrient deficiencies, inflammation, even your true biological age so you can see how your body's actually functioning and track improvement over time.

终于有了基于真实检测结果的Superpower可执行健康计划，而不是基于有倾向性的补充剂推荐、支持激素与能量的营养指导，以及专为女性生理特点设计的生活方式和行为调整，这让人倍感振奋。

It is so empowering to finally have superpower's actionable health plan based on real results, not assumptions from targeted supplement recommendations, nutrition guidance that supports hormones and energy, lifestyle, and behavioral adjustments designed for women's biology.

Superpower不仅仅给你一次性的快照。

Superpower doesn't just give you a one time snapshot.

它会随着你身体的变化持续追踪你的检测结果，每次检测都建立在前一次的基础上。

It's tracking your results as your body changes, each test building on the last.

以前，Superpower的价格是499美元。

Superpower used to cost $499.

现在，全套服务只需199美元。

Right now, it is $199 for the full experience.

这比市场上任何其他产品都更实惠。

That's more affordable than anything else out there.

今年，用Superpower了解你的身体数据。

Know your numbers this year with superpower.

让今年成为你不再靠猜测来了解健康的年份，选择Superpower。

Make this the year you stop guessing about your health with superpower.

超级力量不仅将价格降至仅199美元，而且在有限时间内，我们的听众使用代码break还可再减20美元。

Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just a $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with code break.

前往superpower.com并在结账时使用代码break，即可享受20美元折扣。

Head to superpower.com and use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership.

注册后，他们会问你是通过什么渠道了解到他们的。

After you sign up, they'll ask you how you heard about them.

请务必提到这个播客，以支持我们的节目。

Make sure to mention this podcast to support the show.

特别是焦虑，从延续物种的角度来看，焦虑能让你的大脑保持警觉。

So anxiety, in particular, when you think about anxiety for the purpose of, like, perpetuating the species, anxiety keeps your brain vigilant.

它让你对周围发生的事情保持敏感。

It keeps you aware of what's going on around you.

在适当的程度下，这至关重要。

And in the right doses, that's incredibly important.

为什么？

Why?

环境中的细微变化可能非常、非常危险，尤其是对于灵长类动物、哺乳动物，或者任何动物来说。

Subtle changes in the environment can be very, very dangerous, especially if you're a primate, a mammal, really any animal.

但特别是我们天生容易焦虑，这意味着我们具备感知威胁的能力。

But in particular, we are wired to be anxious, meaning we're wired for the capability to be anxious so that we can perceive threats.

这对进化来说比你放松、躺平、彻底放松、一切随缘更重要。

That's more important to evolution than you chilling out, max, and relax, and all cool.

那么，为什么有些人比其他人更容易焦虑呢？

So why are some people more anxious than others?

也就是说，为什么我们会存在这种差异？

Like, why do we have this variability?

部分原因在于遗传，有些人遗传到的焦虑倾向比其他人更强，这是一个术语，叫遗传负荷。

Well, part of it is genetic in that some people get more of a genetic load than others, and that's a it's a term, a genetic load.

焦虑不是由单一基因决定的。

Anxiety is not one gene.

不是说，哦，我有焦虑基因，或者我没有。

It's not like, oh, I have the anxiety gene, or I don't.

焦虑是一个非常复杂的网络和系统，涉及大脑的边缘结构和前额叶皮层。

Anxiety is a very complicated network and system, and it involves the limbic structures of the brain and the prefrontal cortex.

它涉及很多方面。

It involves a lot of things.

我们确实会从父母那里遗传焦虑，不仅仅是因为有些人父母总是大喊大叫。

We do inherit anxiety from our parents, not just because some of us have parents who shout all the time.

你必须大喊，因为他们自己非常焦虑，大家都紧张，所以你总是喊叫。

You have to shout because they're very anxious, and everybody's anxious, and you're always shouting.

或者他们总是告诉你任何情况下可能出错的所有事情。

Or they tell you all the things that could possibly go wrong in any situation.

我们也会从父母那里遗传这种倾向。

Also, we inherit that from our parents.

但我们遗传的是一种警觉性的观念。

But what we're inheriting is we're inheriting a notion of vigilance.

当我们在一个充满恐惧的环境中长大时，我们会学会对可能发生的事情保持警觉。

And when we are raised in a fearful environment, we are taught to be vigilant about things that might happen to us.

如果你父母就是这样的人，你知道，嗨。

And that's actually you know, if if you had parents like that hi.

欢迎。

Welcome.

如果你父母就是这样的人，他们会不会想，这样会损害孩子成年后管理焦虑的能力吗？

If you had parents like that, they're not thinking, is this damaging my child's ability to manage anxiety when they become adults?

不会。

No.

他们想的是，我从小就在这种持续的紧张中长大，所以我必须让你们也像我一样保持警觉，这样才能生存。

They're thinking, I grew up with this constant state of tension, and I have to make them vigilant like me so that we can survive.

此外，乔纳森还提到了一个关于家庭的有趣观点。

In addition, Jonathan brings up an interesting point also about our families.

所以这只是一个小小的例子。

So this is just a small example.

东欧犹太人，而我们恰好就是其中两个。

Eastern European Jews, of which we happen to be two of them.

我得说一下。

I I gotta say it.

我爸爸的绰号是灾难预防负责人。

My dad, his nickname, he's head of disaster prevention.

我和一些朋友给他起的绰号是：遇到任何可能出问题的事情，我们该不该去咨询灾难预防负责人乔尔？

This is what I've nicknamed him with, some of my friends is, should we consult Joel, head of disaster prevention, for anything that could possibly go wrong?

有时候，周六我会打电话给他，如果我们没什么可聊的，我就说：爸，我们来谈谈美国可能崩溃的情况吧。

And sometimes, I get him on the phone on a Saturday, and if we have nothing to talk about, I say, so dad, let's talk about the potential collapse of The United States.

他就会回答：好的。

To which he says, okay.

我只需要问一两个问题，他就会开始详细分析整个社会为何可能崩溃。

And I just it requires one or two questions to get him going as to why the entire society may potentially collapse.

所以乔纳森和我都是东欧血统，东欧犹太人是一个非常小的基因群体，源于大约十五世纪的人口瓶颈。

So Jonathan and I are are of Eastern European descent, and Eastern European Jews are a a very small genetic pool that resulted from a a population bottleneck somewhere around the fifteenth century.

实际上，我需要去核实一下这个说法。

I actually I need to I need to fact check that.

如果我说的不是十五世纪，我会在bealekbreakdown.com上更正。

And if I'm wrong that it's not fifteenth century, I'll post that on bealekbreakdown.com.

我们的基因池很小。

We have a small genetic pool.

当一个群体的基因池很小时，某些事情就会频繁发生，因为我们共享了大量相同的遗传信息。

So what what happens when you have a small genetic pool for a population is that things that occur are gonna occur a lot because we're sharing a lot of the same genetic information.

想想杰里·赛恩菲尔德、乔恩·斯图尔特、莎拉·西尔弗曼、本·斯蒂勒。

So think like Jerry Seinfeld, think Jon Stewart, Sarah Silverman, Ben Stiller.

你看出什么模式了吗？

Do you see a pattern?

这些犹太喜剧演员非常擅长一种以焦虑为核心基调的幽默。

These are Jewish comedians who capitalize really on a sense of comedy that is really, in many cases, anchored, you know, around a notion of anxiety.

这并不仅仅是为了开玩笑。

And it's not just something to joke about.

重点不是说犹太人容易焦虑。

Like, the take home message isn't that, like, Jews are anxious.

但对于像东欧犹太人这样数千年来一直面临大量需要警觉和恐惧情境的群体来说，焦虑可以成为某种保护机制。

But for a population like Eastern European Jews who have been subject to a a lot of situations that involve vigilance and fear, really, for thousands and thousands of years, anxiety can serve as a protective mechanism for certain populations.

这是因为，当生活充满压力时，焦虑正是这种状态的绝佳体现。

And that's because it's just a great example of what it's like to be alive when things are stressful.

想象一下我们是穴居人。

And think of us as cave people.

没有房屋、建筑和鞋子，生活压力巨大。

Very, very stressful to not have houses and buildings and shoes.

我们都是来自邻近村庄的、压力重重的表亲们。

All of us very stressed cousins from neighboring villages.

没错。

That's right.

因此，我们可能天生就带有某些倾向，这是基因上的一种运气使然；但当环境不断强调焦虑和过度警觉的必要性时，孩子自然会表现出更多的焦虑。

So there are there are certain predispositions that we may be born with because of a genetic, you know, kind of luck luck of the draw, but then an environment that is highlighting a need for anxiety and hypervigilance is is obviously going to lead to more anxiety in in children.

如果没有焦虑，我们会变成什么样？

So what would we be like without anxiety?

为什么我们就不能把它拿走呢？

Like, why why can't we take it away?

跟我们说说。

Tell us.

跟我们讲讲这个。

Tell us about that.

那就留给那些很多很多年的刻薄科学家去研究吧。

Well, leave it to many, many years of mean scientists to figure out.

因为如果你把许多毛茸茸的、可爱又温顺的动物

Because if you take many furry, sweet, loving animals

你可没这么干过。

Not that you've done this.

我没有这么干过。

Not I have not done this.

但确实，关于恐惧的大量研究都是围绕大脑中一个叫杏仁核的区域进行的。

But but, yes, a lot of the research that has been done about fear is based around a region of the brain called the amygdala.

它差不多就在正中间，偏下三分之一的位置。

It's kinda like right in the middle, lower third.

你可以切除杏仁核，从而消除恐惧，以及随之而来的大部分焦虑。

You can remove the amygdala, and you can remove essentially fear, and with it most most, anxiety.

通常，没有恐惧感的动物会很快被杀死，因为它们不知道该害怕，也不知道如何感到害怕。

Usually, animals that don't have fear get killed very quickly be because they don't know to be They don't know how be afraid.

因此，我们可以操控大脑结构和化学物质——这些物质我们现在已经明确知道与焦虑有关。

So you can manipulate brain structures and chemicals that are that we have literally we now know are responsible for anxiety.

动物们还会啃咬自己的皮肤。

Animals will also skin pick.

它们会一直啃咬，直到全身的毛发掉光，变得血肉模糊。

They will skin pick until all of their fur comes out and they're a bloody mess.

如果有人养过鸟，就会知道，当鸟类感到焦虑时，会拔掉自己的羽毛。

If anyone has ever owned a bird, birds, when they are anxious, will pluck their feathers out.

它们会把自己弄得一团糟。

They will make a mess of themselves.

这就是焦虑。

That's anxiety.

此外，动物会攻击并无目的地在笼子里转圈。

Also, animals will will attack and circle their cages aimlessly.

它们会表现出很多我们焦虑时也会做的行为。

They they do a lot of the behaviors that we do when we're anxious.

你知道吗，我会在视频会议中来回踱步两个小时，浑身冷汗，因为这是我唯一知道的释放焦虑的方式。

You know, I'll I'll pace for two hours and be in a cold sweat during a conference call because that's the only way I know to get that anxiety out.

这和你对老鼠施加恐惧与焦虑时，它们会不停地在笼子里转圈，直到累死，并没有多大区别。

It's not that different from when you when you manipulate and stimulate fear and anxiety in a rat, and they will circle their cage for hours and hours until they drop dead.

焦虑实际上在两方面帮助了我们。

Anxiety really helps us with two things.

它帮助我们应对战斗和逃跑。

It helps us with fight and with flight.

所以，如果你把自己想象成一只动物——你确实就是——身处丛林或森林中，无论你想象自己在哪儿。

So if you think of yourself as an animal, which you are, and you're in the jungle or the forest, really wherever you'd like to picture your animal self.

如果有什么感觉不对劲，可能是某种声音。

If something seems not quite right, it could be a sound.

也可能是某种气味。

It could be a smell.

能够应对舒适度变化的动物更有可能将基因传递下去，因为它们会生存下来，比如想：‘这声音不对劲。’

Animals who handle fluctuations in comfort are more likely to pass on their genes because they're gonna survive because they'll be like, oh, that doesn't sound good.

我会赶紧离开那里。

I'm a get away from that.

就是这样运作的。

That's how it works.

你的身体和大脑是通过分配血液和重要化学物质来实现这一点的。

The the way that your body does that, the way that your brain does that is it sends out distribution of of blood and and important chemicals.

血液将氧气输送到应对当前情况所需的身体部位。

Blood carries oxygen to the parts of the body that are needed to handle the situation.

所以当我们想要逃跑时，我们需要什么？

So when we want to run, what do we need?

我们需要富含氧气的血液流向腿部。

We need oxygenated blood going to our legs.

这就是它的运作方式。

Like, that's how it works.

你需要肺部充分运作。

You need your lungs to be pumping.

你需要心脏加速跳动，否则你就会像这样，对吧？

You need your heart to get going so that you're not like, Right?

所有这些发生的变化，都是焦虑系统对身体的影响。

All those things that happen, that's the system of anxiety that affects your body.

所以你可以想象，作为人类，当这个系统被激活时，你会让大量血液流向各个部位，但实际上你并不需要这样。

So you can imagine, as a human, if that system gets stimulated, you're gonna get all that blood flowing, all those places, but you don't need it to.

正因为生活在这个复杂而奇妙的世界里，我们必须学会管理大脑本能反应与环境实际需求之间的差异。

And it's because we exist in this complicated, amazing world that we have to learn to manage those discrepancies between what our brain is programmed to do and what our environment really demands of us.

这就是为什么你会听到人们说，当你长期处于高度警觉状态时，身体的资源会持续用于应对‘战斗或逃跑’，而不是用于修复，如果这种情况持续很长时间的话。

And that's when you hear people explaining that when you're in a hyper vigilant state all the time, your body's resources are going to fight or flight instead of to repair, and if that goes on for a long period of time.

对。

Correct.

而且我认为全球大流行是一个持续高度不确定情境的绝佳例子。

Well, and I think the global pandemic is a great example of a sustained situation of tremendous uncertainty.

我们所有人实际上都在经历预期性焦虑。

Anticipatory anxiety is what we're we're essentially all living in.

你知道吗，有时候——至少这是我自己的体验。

You know how sometimes I mean, at least this is my experience.

在疫情期间，有些日子我会不小心忘记，然后突然想：哦，我得去取那个东西。

There are some days during the pandemic where I kind of, like, forget, and I'll be like, oh, I gotta go pick up that thing.

我会想，这是因为我自己选择去忘记，因为我无法持续处理正在发生的一切。

I'm like, it's because I've allowed myself to forget because I cannot constantly process what's going on.

也就是说，我对明年疫苗会发生什么感到非常焦虑。

Namely, that I'm very anxious about what's gonna happen next year with a vaccine.

这确实让我感到焦虑。

Like, I that's anxiety provoking for me.

此外，我们还经历了一次选举，国家陷入了深深的分裂。

Also, we've had an election and a a country divided, like, really, really divided.

这也非常令人焦虑。

Also, very anxiety provoking.

我们中的许多人处于高度警觉状态，老实说，这有充分的理由。

Many of us are on high alert and, honestly, for good reason.

那么，当我们找不到方法来管理焦虑时，会发生什么？

So when we don't find ways to manage our anxiety, what happens?

你知道吗？长期焦虑会影响你的免疫系统？

Well, did you know that your immune system can take a hit with prolonged anxiety?

你知道吗？焦虑会向你的体内释放一种名为皮质醇的应激激素？

Did you know that anxiety dumps a stress hormone called cortisol into your system?

它会干扰你的T细胞，削弱你抵抗轻微疾病的能力。

It messes up with your T cells and your ability to fight off even minor sickness.

它还会扰乱你的睡眠。

It messes with your sleep.

它会造成磨损和损伤。

It causes wear and tear.

对我来说，一个明确的迹象是我焦虑失控了——我总是生病。

And for me, one of the indications I had that my anxiety was truly, truly out of control I I was getting sick all the time.

我知道有些人会说：我从不生病。

And I know people are like, I don't get sick.

她错了。

She's wrong.

好吧。

Okay.

有些人可能不会生病，但有些人可能会。

Some people may not get sick, but some people may.

这是一个影响因素。

And this is a factor.

那么关于焦虑，还有哪些方面？

So what else about anxiety?

它会逐渐加重。

It progresses.

发生的情况是，你可能会注意到，那些最初表现为焦虑的行为开始蔓延扩大。

And what happens is you can see that behaviors that started as anxious behaviors, you they start growing.

你可能会在这些行为基础上增加新的表现。

You might add new ones to those behaviors.

你可能会经历焦虑发作，这是一种急性症状组合，包括生理症状，如出汗、心率加快、思维混乱。

You can have anxiety attacks, which are acute combinations of symptoms, which are physiological symptoms, sweating, increased heart rate, confused thinking.

这些症状可能持续几分钟。

These can last for minutes.

焦虑发作非常、非常令人衰弱。

Anxiety attacks are very, very debilitating.

它们非常、非常可怕，但我希望将它们与恐慌发作区分开来。

They're very, very scary, but I'd like to distinguish them from panic attacks.

恐慌发作是人们经常提到的一个说法。

Panic attacks is one of those things that people say a lot.

比如，我正在经历一场恐慌发作。

Like, I'm having a panic attack.

恐慌发作与焦虑发作不同。

Panic attacks are different from anxiety attacks.

恐慌发作在医学上被称为恐慌障碍。

Panic attacks come from technically what's called panic disorder.

恐慌发作常常让人不得不去医院，因为你觉得自己快要死了。

And panic attacks often make you end up in the hospital because you think you're dying.

而焦虑发作就像是，天哪。

And whereas an anxiety attack is like, oh my gosh.

这太不舒服了。

This is so uncomfortable.

这太糟糕了。

This is horrible.

我在出汗。

I'm sweating.

我在哪里？

Where am I?

我该怎么办？

What do I do?

恐慌发作非常、非常不同，因为在这种状态下，你的思维会失去对现实时间和认知处理能力的追踪。

A panic attack is very, very different in that the train of thought is such that you lose the ability to really track real time and cognitive processing of what's going on.

是的。

Yes.

我经历过恐慌发作，以防我的描述不够具体。

I've experienced panic attacks in case my description isn't specific enough.

恐慌发作的感觉是，我觉得我需要去医院。

What a panic attack feels like is, I think I need to go to the hospital.

我需要把车停到路边。

I need to pull over the car.

我现在不能开车。

I cannot drive right now.

我得去医院。

I gotta go to the hospital.

有时候你会开始感受到一些症状，这些症状让你觉得必须去医院，但这种迷失方向和解离的程度极其令人瘫痪。

And sometimes it's like you start feeling sensations that must indicate that you think you need to go to the hospital, but the level of of disorientation and dissociation is incredibly debilitating.

恐慌发作与焦虑发作不同，因为恐慌发作伴随着对再次发作的恐惧。

And panic attacks are distinct from anxiety attacks in that panic attacks include with them the fear that you will get another one.

而焦虑发作可能只是让你觉得，天啊，我真的不想再经历一次。

And while anxiety attacks can make you think like, boy, I really don't wanna get another one.

那太糟糕了。

That would be terrible.

恐慌发作的循环在于，对再次发作的恐惧本身就会引发发作，这是一个非常危险、可怕的循环，通常会给你使用镇静剂。

The panic attack loop is such that the fear that you may get another one can bring them on, and it is a very, very dangerous scary loop for for which you are usually given a sedative.

所以区别在于

So the difference

是的。

Yes.

对于在家观看的观众来说，严重程度的差异是怎样的？

For people following along at home is the degrees of severity.

没错。

Correct.

很多自称经历恐慌发作的人，其实只是经历严重的焦虑发作，对他们来说感觉很强烈，但这可能不仅仅是因为——或者至少部分是因为——他们还没体验过那种完整的、‘我会死掉’的恐慌发作感觉。

And so a lot of people who are using panic attack and really having anxiety attack, it feels intense to them, but only because, or not only, but potentially because they haven't experienced the full blown, like, I'm gonna die sensation of a Correct.

恐慌

Panic

而且again，这并不是一场竞赛，我不是要赢。

And again, it's not a competition because I win.

不，但这不是竞赛，重要的是要指出，像我这样的科学家类型的人，对词语非常较真，因为它们很重要，有明确的含义。

No, but it's not a competition, but it is important to note that people like me, scientist types, do get very persnickety about words because they matter and they have meaning.

当我们学会准确识别自己正在经历的状态时，这有助于人们更好地理解自己的心理状态。

And it helps people understand their own mental state when we learn to correctly identify what's going on.

这也有助于与医生沟通。

It's helpful for speaking to practitioners.

这对你与自己沟通也有帮助。

It's helpful for speaking to yourself.

如果你正在经历我们所讨论的这些情况，是的，开始记录下来。

If you're experiencing the kind of things we're talking about, yes, start keeping track of them.

当然。

Absolutely.

从网上打印出来。

Print up from the interwebs.

比如，打印一份一个月的日历，标记每天出现的这些症状情况。

You know, print up a calendar for a month and and mark off what happens on any given day regarding these kinds of symptoms.

现在是介绍格蕾丝·赫尔比格的合适时机，因为她对焦虑了如指掌，而且她是个很棒的人。

This feels like the right time to introduce Grace Helbig because she knows all these things about anxiety, and she's an awesome person.

格蕾丝是我通过威尔·惠顿认识的。

And Grace is someone that I got to know through Will Wheaton.

很多年前，当我打算开设一个YouTube频道时，我跟威尔·惠顿说了，他当时在《生活大爆炸》里出演，我们关系很近，现在依然如此。

When I was wanting to start a YouTube channel many years ago, I said to Will Wheaton, who was on Big Bang Theory, and and we were we were close, and we are close.

我说，我觉得没人理解我。

I said, I don't feel like people understand me.

我觉得我不该上YouTube，为什么是我？

I don't feel like I I why should I be on YouTube?

他说，你必须去和Grace聊聊。

He said, you have to talk to Grace.

她特别搞笑。

She's hilarious.

她很勇敢。

She's brave.

她很古怪。

She's she's quirky.

她非常聪明。

She's very smart.

我参加的第一个播客就是Grace的。

One of the first podcasts I was ever on was Grace's.

她还有一个最好的朋友叫玛米，我也上过她们的节目。

She also has a best friend, Mamrie, and I was on their show.

我超级喜欢玛米的狗叫豆子，我们待会儿会和格蕾丝聊到它。

I'm obsessed with Mamrie's dog, Beans, which we'll talk about with Grace.

格蕾丝一直是一位非常积极且直言不讳的公众人物，倡导真实自我。

Grace has always been a really active and vocal supporter of authenticity as a public person.

她真的激励了我勇敢地展现自己，也正是她让我今天在这里和你们对话。

She really has inspired me to put myself out there, and she's really why I'm talking to all of you.

所以格蕾丝是一位喜剧演员。

So Grace is a comedian.

她是一名演员，也是一位YouTube名人。

She's an an actor, and she's a YouTube personality.

她的频道‘这是格蕾丝’拥有大约300万订阅者和3.29亿次播放量。

She has, yeah, almost 3,000,000 subscribers and 329,000,000 views on her channel, It's Grace.

她还出演过电影。

She's also done movies.

她主持播客《Pilot On with Elliot Morgan》。

She hosts the podcast Pilot On with Elliot Morgan.

她写了两本略带调侃的自助书籍：《Grace's Guide：假装成年人的艺术》和《Grace and Style：假装你拥有它》，这两本书都是《纽约时报》畅销书。

She's written two kind of tongue in cheek self help books, Grace's Guide, The Art of Pretending to be a Grown Up, and Grace and Style, The Art of Pretending You Have It, both of which are New York Times bestsellers.

有请格蕾丝·赫尔比格。

Let's welcome Grace Helbig.

来点精彩的。

Break it down.

欢迎，格蕾丝。

Welcome, Grace.

谢谢。

Thank you.

你好。

Hello.

你好。

Hello.

谢谢您邀请我。

Thank you for having me.

我非常兴奋。

I'm very excited.

谢谢。

Thank you.

你的播客实际上是我做过的第一个播客。

You your podcast was actually one of the first that I ever did.

真的吗？

And Really?

是的。

Yes.

我记得那场录制特别有趣，我还和一个奇怪的婴儿玩偶合影了。

And I remember it was a lot of fun, and I posed with a a weird baby doll

我们录完之后。

when we were done.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

但确实，在这个时代，那个娃娃已经被收起来了。

But, yeah, in these times, that baby has been put away for a bit.

现在没人能碰那个娃娃了。

No no one gets to touch the baby these days.

如果我有

If I had

一镍币。

a nickel.

对吧？

Right?

我知道。

I know.

好的。

Okay.

你知道，你是我想要进入的领域中最杰出的女性之一。

You know, you were one of the the most prominent women, really, in the space that I wanted to enter.

我真的很感激你的存在，以及你能在公众面前做自己的能力。

I really just I'm so appreciative of your presence and your ability to be yourself in a public way.

谢谢你。

Thank you.

所以我想到，你真的是一个特别合适的人选，可以和我聊聊焦虑，特别是关于你作为公众人物、做自己的这段旅程。

And so I I thought you would really be such a wonderful person to talk to about anxiety in particular, but also just about kind of your journey with what it's like being public and being you.

为了让大家更好地了解，你能简单谈谈你成长的地方吗？比如你的父母是做什么的，他们的生活是怎样的？你小时候是什么样的？

So just to kind of orient people, maybe just talk a little bit about kind of like where you grew up, you know, what your parents' life was like, meaning like what your parents do, and and what were you like?

小时候的格蕾丝是什么样子的？

Like, what was grace like as a little kid?

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我是在美丽的新泽西州长大的。

Well, I grew up in the beautiful state of New Jersey.

非常迷人。

Absolutely lovely.

那里有很多值得体验的东西。

It has a lot to offer.

我小时候非常非常内向。

And I was very, very shy growing up.

特别特别内向。

Super, super shy.

我父母在我年幼时离异了，我跟着几个兄弟长大。

My parents were divorced when I was younger, and I grew up with all brothers.

所以我的兄弟们特别喜欢蒙提·派森。

So my brothers were very into, like, Monty Python.

他们非常迷《周六夜现场》。

They're very into SNL.

所以我的两个哥哥，尤其是我的继兄和哥哥，他们特别喜欢喜剧，我一直特别想让他们对我刮目相看。

And so my two older brothers especially, or my older step brother and my older brother, they loved comedy, and I always had, like, a deep desire to impress them.

于是我开始对喜剧产生浓厚兴趣，渴望逗人发笑。

And so I got very interested in comedy, interested in making people laugh.

当我去新泽西北部上大学时，我主修了普通的传播学，那时我逐渐培养了对喜剧的品味。

And so when I I went to college in Northern New Jersey, I studied just standard communications, and I kind of developed a taste for comedy there.

我开始对即兴喜剧产生兴趣，并在那时去纽约市上课，这让我一点点走出了自己的壳，给了我表达自我的声音和渠道，大学毕业后我搬到了纽约市，并对互联网产生了兴趣，因为我内心依然住着一个非常害羞内向的孩子。

I started getting interested in improv comedy and taking classes in New York City at the time, and that really kind of burst me out of my shell a little bit, gave me kind of a voice and an outlet to be able to express myself, and then moved to New York City after I graduated college and got interested in the Internet because still I had a very shy introverted child inside of me.

所以在纽约市表演即兴喜剧非常有趣、酷炫，但也让人极度焦虑。

And so going out and performing improv comedy in New York City was so fun, so cool, very anxiety inducing.

于是，当有机会在家做喜剧、从自己布鲁克林公寓的舒适与宁静中与人连接、逗人发笑时。

And so when this opportunity to be able to do comedy from home and be able to connect and, make people laugh from the comfort and solace of my own apartment in Brooklyn came up.

我立刻抓住了这个机会。

I really kind of latched on to that.

于是我开始制作YouTube视频，曾在一家公司工作过一段时间，创作了一个名为《Daily Grace》的系列，但当时对YouTube或互联网世界一无所知。

And so started doing YouTube videos, worked for a company for a while, created a series called Daily Grace, not knowing anything about exactly what YouTube or the internet world was like at all.

通过这个过程，我结识了许多同样身处这个领域的朋友，我们所有人都一起努力摸索自己在做什么。

Met a lot of really wonderful friends through that that were also in that world, and we all sort of like forged forward trying to figure out what we were doing.

是的，这就是我YouTube事业起步的来龙去脉。

And, yeah, that's the that's the long and short of the start of my my YouTube thing.

我以前不知道你和兄弟们的这段经历，但你作为喜剧演员和公众人物吸引我的一个重要方面是，这并不是一个很多女性涉足的领域。

I didn't know this about you and and brothers, but a tremendous part of sort of my attraction to you as a comedian and and as a public person is that this is not a space where a lot of women live.

这确实是一个相当男性主导的世界。

It it really is a it really is a kind of a male dominated, you know, kind of world.

是的。

And Yeah.

很多时候，女性的机会往往被限定在‘你能否性感地做你做的事’这类框架里。

A lot of times the opportunities for females are specifically geared around, like, can you be sexy and do what you're doing?

因为这确实是这样，而我觉得你这样一位女性非常鼓舞人心——你身上有一种很明显的《蒙提·派森》和《周六夜现场》式的喜剧能量。

Because that's really And and I think that there's something that's really inspiring to me about the kind of woman that you are in that you do have a very, like, Monty Python SNL kind of comedy energy about you.

但你也仍然是一个女人。

But also, you're you're still you're still a woman.

你身上仍然有很多明显符合传统异性恋女性特质的东西。

There's still things about you that are that are definitely aligned with, you know, a lot of heteronormative female things.

是的。

Yeah.

这很有趣。

It's it's interesting.

我确实是一个女人。

I am I am a woman.

所以，在我那种天真的成长环境中，我上高中时一直很喜欢运动。

And so I in my kind of, like, naive upbringing, I was always I was very into sports when I was in high school.

我参加过田径和网球。

I did track and tennis.

我也对那些更女性化的特质感兴趣。

I was interested in the more, like, feminine qualities.

我特别喜欢17岁杂志、看Style Network和 makeover 节目之类的，但成长过程中却没人能和我一起分享这些兴趣。

I was really into, you know, 17 magazines and and watching the Style Network and and makeover shows and all of that stuff, But I had no one to kind of commiserate on all of that with growing up.

我的朋友很少，因为我在高中时很害羞。

And my my friends, I had a very small group of friends because I was shy in high school.

我的朋友们也更偏向男孩气，喜欢运动和喜剧。

My friends were also more on the tomboy side, more into sports and comedy.

所以这些从来就不是我成长经历中的一部分。

And so it just never was part of my DNA growing up.

我的妈妈是个非常温柔、女性化的女人，但她从不以任何方式依赖或炫耀自己的性吸引力。

I mean, my mom is a very sweet, feminine woman, but she's also, you know, not thriving on her sexuality in any way, shape, or form.

当我进入喜剧领域后，经常有人问我：作为女性在喜剧界是什么感觉？

And so when I got into comedy, that question started to come up a lot of, like, what is it like being a female in comedy?

而我非常天真，从未从这个角度思考过这个问题。

And I, very naively, had never really considered it like that.

我一直把自己看作喜剧界的一个普通人，当时我觉得——那是2010年2月——把自己定义为‘女性喜剧演员’是一种限制，仿佛在我起步之前就给自己设下了障碍。

I'd always considered myself a person in comedy, and I felt like at the time, like this is 02/2010, like it felt very limiting to kind of see myself as a woman in comedy to put sort of like a restriction on myself or a barrier or obstacle on myself before I even got started.

而且当时，我其实是个异类，因为喜剧圈里的女性本来就很少，我们反而获得了更多登台和试镜的机会。

And at the time too, like, I I was kind of an anomaly because the females in the comedy space were few and far between that we were actually getting more opportunities to get on stage, getting more opportunities to, to audition for things.

所以我一直觉得，谢天谢地，我现在不是个直白的白人男性。

So I always kind of felt like, thank God I'm not a straight white guy right now.

如果我是，根本不会有这些机会，现在反而是‘女性’身份在帮我。

I wouldn't get any opportunities that this female thing is working in my favor right now.

但当我刚起步时，所有试镜角色都是‘性感家庭主妇’或‘对自己身体极度自信的女主人’这类，源源不断。

But when I first started all of the auditions for like sexy housewife or like very confident in her body mistress were coming in all the time.

我平时不太会为自己争取，但不得不一次又一次地向我的经纪人明确表达：嘿，我觉得这个角色挺有意思。

And I had to really I'm I don't stand up for myself very often, but I had to make it clear to my manager over and over and over again that, like, hey, I think this role is cool.

我知道我喜欢演什么样的角色，但我觉得这个不适合我。

I know what I enjoy playing, and I don't think this is gonna work out for me.

我很感激这个机会能落到我头上，但我清楚还有太多女性比我能演得更好。

I appreciate this coming down the line and having an opportunity, but I just know so many other females that could do this so much better than I could.

如果我去试镜，还得挤地铁进城，做一件让我极度不自在的事，这不仅是浪费我的时间，也是浪费导演的时间。

And I'm gonna waste a casting director and my time trying to take a subway into the city and do something that I'm so wildly uncomfortable with.

所以这对我有利，而互联网的兴起给了我一个真正做自己并因此得到认可的机会。

So it it worked in my favor, and the internet thing coming up just gave me this opportunity to really be myself and to be appreciated for it.

所以每次我去参加那样的试镜时，心里都会想：天啊，我终于能回家穿上运动裤，做真实的自己，在互联网上自由表达。

And so every time I did end up going to an audition like that, I had just this thought in the back of my mind that, oh my god, I get to go home and put sweatpants on and be completely myself on the internet.

这简直是最令人放松、最美好的事情。

That is the most, like, relieving wonderful thing.

因此，这成了我当时的一种驱动力，尽管那时我并不知道，这种特质正是人们所关注的。

And so that was kind of my driving force without knowing that at the time, that was an interesting quality for people to latch onto.

我只是非常感激，我有一个可以发挥创意的空间，还能一直穿着像十一岁男孩一样的衣服。

I was just like so thankful that I had a space to be creative and still like dress like an 11 year old boy all the time.

《自信的女性主人》是我们下一期播客的主题。

Confident in Her Body Mistress is our next podcast episode.

自信的‘不’。

Confident in Her No.

但另一点是，那些你一直压抑的自我特质，最终你会发现、投射出来，并对此产生兴趣。

But the other thing too is, like, all those things that you kind of repress about yourself, you find and project and are interested in.

所以我痴迷于《真实主妇》。

So I'm obsessed with Real Housewives.

我痴迷于所有这些关于女性尽情展现性魅力的节目，因为在我日常生活中，这种东西似乎被压抑得太厉害了。

I'm obsessed with all of these shows about women that are so, like, exuding their sexuality because it's just, like, so, I think, repressed in my, everyday world.

所以我对此着迷，我觉得当一个女人如此自信、能够这样表达自己时，真是太棒了。

So I'm fascinated, and I think it's so wonderful when a woman is like, you know, that confident and can be that way.

我的最好的朋友是玛米·哈特，她在这一点上完全和我相反。

I mean, my best friend is Mamrie Hart, who is the polar opposite of me in that capacity.

难怪我总是对她如此钦佩。

The it's pretty obvious why I'm so, like, in awe of her all the time.

是的。

Yeah.

而且她还有一只我超爱的狗。

Well, she's also got that dog that I'm obsessed with.

哦，对啊。

Oh, yeah.

当我告诉她我在做这个播客时，她说：‘我得去Beans的账号看看，得更新一下，因为Mayim特别喜欢Beans，而我却没尽到我的责任。’

She when I told her that I was doing this podcast, she was like, I gotta go on Beans' account, I gotta update it because Mayim is really into Beans, and I I haven't been doing my job.

我太迷恋她了，她才是真正的女性偶像。

I'm obsessed with that She's the true female icon.

是的。

Yes.

光秃秃的，而且

Hairless with, like,

舌头吐出来。

the tongue hanging out.

这简直是个大工程。

It's a whole thing.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

好的。

Okay.

她对自己的身体很自在。

Comfortable in her own body.

所以你提到单口喜剧，这挺有趣的。

So it's funny that you bring up stand up.

而且，我也想说，伊莉莎·施莱辛格曾经告诉我，她直到开始做单口喜剧之前，从没觉得自己是个美女，因为女性太少了，大家的关注点都集中在‘你是个女生’这一点上。

And, also, I wanted to say, Eliza Schlesinger once said to me that, like, she never thought of herself as the hot girl until she started doing stand up because there were so few females, and the focus became so much about, like, you're a female.

但这正好引出了我原本想问你的问题，就是即兴表演和单口喜剧。

But that sort of adds to my question that I was gonna ask you, like, improv and and stand up.

这两种喜剧形式都非常特别，也最让人焦虑，因为你没有任何安全网。

Like, those are two very, very specific branches of comedy that are the most anxiety producing because you are flying without a net.

是的。

And Yeah.

反应敏捷、机智幽默，和站在你们面前——本质上是面对一群陌生人，看什么能引起共鸣——所需的技能完全无关。

The ability to be quick, to be quick witted and to be sharp and funny is has nothing to do with the skill set that is involved with getting up in front of us, you know, essentially a room of strangers and seeing what will land.

我想知道，你有没有什么时候第一次意识到，‘我是个容易焦虑的人’，或者‘我感到焦虑’？

And I'd like to know I don't know, you know, if and when you first had a notion of, like, I'm an anxious person or I feel anxiety.

只是听你谈论任何人的即兴表演，都让我心跳加速，是的。

Just hearing you talk about even the notion of anyone doing improv, like, makes my heart start climbing Yeah.

往上涌，因为那是我完全做不到的事。

Up my throat, because that's something I cannot do.

当我尝试时，我会出现典型的焦虑反应。

And when I try, I have a classic anxious reaction.

我会哭，但不是那种好的哭泣。

I start crying and not in a good way.

所以谈谈你对这种特定喜剧形式的焦虑感吧。

So talk a little bit about that anxiety with that particular form of comedy.

是的。

Yeah.

首先，我不做单口喜剧，而且如果我做了单口喜剧，我的看法可能会完全不同，也更坚硬，因为那个世界让我感到恐惧。

Well, first of all, I I don't do stand up, and I think I would have a very different and hardened perspective if I did stand up because that world is terrifying to me.

就像你说的，你是在没有安全网的情况下表演，但你完全是孤身一人。

You, like you said, are flying without a net, but you're completely by yourself.

即兴表演对我来说是一个稍微安全一点的舞台，因为你虽然也是在没有安全网的情况下表演，但它的整个基础是与团队合作共同创造一些东西。

Improv was a little bit of a safer playground because you are flying without a net, but the entire foundation of it is working with a team to build something together.

所以无论发生什么，你总是得到支持的。

And so you are always supported no matter what.

你永远不会独自一人，除非你碰上了一场糟糕的演出，和一群糟糕的队友。

You're never out there by yourself unless you're in a bad show with a bad group of people.

但它的整个基础就是，你知道的，我们都在一起努力。

But the, the whole foundation of it was, you know, we are all working together.

我们互相支持，这对我来说感觉有趣多了。

We are supporting each other, and that felt much more fun to me.

我非常尊重单口喜剧演员。

I have so much respect for stand ups.

那是一个我显然非常害怕的世界。

It's just a world that I obviously am very terrified in.

但即兴表演的世界，当我刚开始上课时，每周我都会想，要不要放弃这门课，每次坐火车进城上课时，都会经历全身发热、恐慌到极点的感觉。

But the the world of improv, when I first started taking classes, I, every week, would have the thought of, like, talking myself out of doing this class and having, like, full full body, like, heat surge panic every time I had took the train into the city to take another class.

但课堂上发生的快乐，那些突破的时刻，或超越阻碍你的事物的时刻，

But then the joy that happened in class, the moments of, like, breakthrough or the moments of pushing yourself past something that was, was blocking you.

我的意思是，说‘是的’，追随你的恐惧，还有整个行业流传的种种说法，对我这个刚毕业的大学生来说非常有帮助，当时我正努力在这个世界中认识自己。

I mean, saying yes, following your fear, or all these, like, diatribes that the whole industry has that were super helpful for me as a recent college graduate, like, trying to figure out myself in this world.

我当时比参与这个课程和加入的团队中的大多数人年龄都小。

I was also younger than, the average age of people that were participating in that and that I was on teams with.

所以我认为自己能顺利度过，是因为没有被性化，我觉得我散发出一种‘小妹妹’的气质。

So I think I really, skated by on the getting sexualized in any sense there because I think I exuded, like, younger sister vibes.

我一辈子都是小妹妹，所以在那个圈子里，我非常擅长扮演这个角色。

I've been a younger sister my whole life, so I was really good at playing that role in that world.

但像伊莉莎这样的人，她们不得不面对的那些与她们真正想展示的工作毫无关系的事情，真是离谱，而且只会越来越疯狂。

But people like Eliza, yeah, they the stuff that they have to deal with that is not even associated with, like, the actual work that they're trying to put forward is wild, and it's only gotten crazier.

但我热爱即兴表演，因为那种方式下，它感觉是一个非常安全、支持性的环境。

But that I loved improv because it felt like a very safe, supportive environment in that way.

当你进入喜剧娱乐行业时，你会开始意识到，每个人都有点怪异。

And when you get into comedy entertainment in general, you start to realize that, like, everyone's a little kooky.

每个人都有自己的焦虑，每个人都在应对自己的烂摊子。

Like, everyone's got their anxieties, and everyone's got their ish going on.

所以你确实会感觉找到了一个不错的群体，那些让你觉得孤立和孤独的想法，突然间变得正常了，因为大家都在处理自己的问题。

And so you do feel like you've kind of met a good tribe in a sense, and all these, like, thoughts that you have that feel very isolating and very lonely suddenly become more normalized because everyone's working through their stuff.

因此，我在那种环境中感到很自在，即使身处不适之中。

And so I felt very comfortable being uncomfortable in that environment.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且，首先，我非常喜欢你对焦虑感受的描述。

So and that sort of well, first of all, I loved your description of what anxiety feels like.

这个播客的一个主要目的，是试图以一种通俗的方式向人们传达身心关联的概念，真正让人明白，我们的身体会接收大量关于内心状态的信息。

One one of the main, like, purposes of of this podcast is also to try and introduce not, like, the notion of mind body, you know, in sort of a a colloquial way, but to really try and communicate to people that our bodies receive a lot of information about what's going on in our minds.

你提到的一些我最喜欢的例子，比如那种发热感。

So you described some of my favorites, like that hot.

你感觉那种热浪袭来。

You feel like that hot, hot flush.

你还说了什么？

What else did you say?

你还说了别的，特别对。

You said something else that was so right.

我会变得特别痒。

You get I get very itchy.

我会觉得特别热。

I get very hot.

我会忍不住甩手，是的。

I get like, have to shake my hands out Yep.

很多次。

A lot.

我四肢很长，所以即使在最放松的状态下，血液循环也不太好。

I have long limbs, so my circulation is naturally even at my most comfortable state not great.

所以当我特别紧张时，手指就会特别冷。

So when I'm extra, like, riled up, there's a lot of cold fingers going on.

我刚开始接触即兴表演时，最难的部分是，整个过程如此令人兴奋，我很难把焦虑和兴奋区分开来。

The hard part for me in the beginning with improv and and the whole whirlwind of it being so exciting is that I couldn't I had a hard time separating, like, the anxiety from the excitement of it.

因为人们教你即兴表演就是要追随你的恐惧，你迈出一步，再迈出另一步，不知不觉中就被训练成一味地硬撑着焦虑，而不是去倾听它、耐心对待它，花时间去弄清楚它从何而来。

And because you're taught that improv is about following your fear, you put one foot out and then you put the other foot out, that you are accidentally conditioned to, like, keep pushing through your anxiety and not necessarily, like, listening and being patient with it and spending time trying to figure out, like, where it's coming from.

所以我已经离开即兴表演好几年了，现在开始试着去理解连接，更多地关注身体发出的信号，因为只要你愿意倾听，身体确实会不断发出信号。

So I've been out of improv for years now, and it's I'm starting to try to understand connection, more of listening to the signals that your body is giving off because it, it definitely gives off signals constantly if you listen to them.

当然。

Sure.

而且我觉得，我现在其实是在向你讨教，因为我马上就要去做了。

Well, and I think this just became me asking you advice because I'm about to do it right now.

让我告诉你我这边的情况。

So here's what happens for me.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

当我有朋友是Groundlings剧团的成员时——Groundlings就像Second City那样。

When I've and I have friends who are Groundlings company members, which Groundlings is, you know, it's like Second City.

这是UCB。

It's UCB.

没错。

It's Right.

你知道的，这是一个非常著名的机构，威尔·法瑞尔和那些人都是从那里出来的。

You know, a very well known you know, it's where Will Ferrell came out of and all those people.

所以当我尝试进行即兴表演时，也就是说，在隔离和新冠疫情之前，Groundlings经常会邀请一位名人嘉宾。

So when I try and do improv, meaning, the Groundlings has, you know well, back before the quarantine and COVID, they used to have, like, a celebrity guest.

有时候这些名人嘉宾即兴表演水平非常高。

And sometimes the celebrity guests are very, very good at improv.

但这位名人嘉宾不是这样的。

That's not this celebrity guest.

所以他们事先告诉你的总是：我们非常支持你。

So what they tell you before is like, we're super supportive.

你会表现得很好的。

You're gonna do great.

真正让我崩溃的是，当人们告诉我你会表现得很棒的时候。

And this is the thing that actually kills me is when people tell me, you're gonna do great.

在我的脑海里，我无法确定这究竟是因为我缺乏自信。

And in my head, I can't decide if it is just like me not having enough confidence.

我想，他们可能说错了。

I'm like, they may be wrong.

但我又在想，也许如果我相信他们说的是对的，我就能表现得不错。

But I'm wondering, maybe if I think they're right, I'll do fine.

我都试过这两种方式。

I've tried it both ways.

事情是这样的。

Here's what happens.

我明白了。

I get it.

如果你给我一个即兴游戏，或者某种非常明确具体的事情，比如，我们来想一些花生酱的名字。

And if you give me like an improv game or something where it's a very discreet, distinct thing, like, we're gonna come up with names of peanut butter.

好的。

Okay.

行。

Fine.

但我如果面对的是开放式即兴表演，比如长达二十分钟的长篇即兴，主题是《哈利·波特》，而我从未看过或读过这本书，那我就……

That But I can if it is an open improv, for example, like long form, how about a long form twenty minute improv, and the topic was Harry Potter, which I've never seen or read.

我站在舞台上，那天晚上我哭着睡着了，这就是结果。

And I'm on a stage, and I cried myself to sleep that night is the PS.

但我得告诉你发生了什么。

I'm But gonna tell you what what happened.

比大多数夜晚都多？

Than most nights?

这和大多数情况不一样。

That is different than most.

那次哭着睡着，和前一晚的不一样。

It was a different cry myself to sleep than the other night.

哭。

Cry.

所以这就是它的感觉。

So here's but here's what it feels like.

比如，如果你是我的老师，我的即兴表演老师，那种感觉就是完全瘫痪。

Like, if you were my teacher, like my improv teacher, what it feels like is complete paralysis.

我的大脑停止了。

My my brain stops.

它无法再接收或输出任何信息。

It stops being able to take in or give out information.

通常我会感到一阵刺痛般的发热，你知道的，通常从腹部开始。

And I get it's usually like a tingly flush, you know, and it starts usually in my belly.

然后它向上蔓延，收紧我的喉咙。

And it moves its way up, and it constricts my throat.

这种感觉就是这样，而我是一名神经科学家。

That feels like and I'm a neuroscientist.

那种喉咙紧缩的感觉，就像是大脑被扼住，但实际上这并不存在。

It feels like the constricting of the throat is the constricting of the brain, which isn't a thing.

但那就是我的感受。

But that's what it feels like.

在那一秒的沉默中，时间仿佛变慢了，我的身体感觉像是已经站在那里一分钟了，而就在那一刻，我能感受到所有人对我存在于这个星球上的集体失望。

And it's like time slows down in that one second of silence feels to my body like I've been standing there for a minute, and I'm able in that moment to process everyone's collective disappointment with my existence on the planet.

所以当人们说，只要说‘是’就好了。

So what when people are like, just say yes.

即使我说‘是’，你知道，因为即兴表演中你应该说‘是’，但听起来却是这样的。

Even when I say yes, you know, because you're supposed say yes in improv, what it sounds like is this.

是的。

Yes.

这跟说‘不’也没什么区别。

And that may as well be a no.

也许干脆不说反而更有趣。

It's probably funnier just to say.

所以这也是那种情况，我觉得，尤其是作为女性，尤其是像我们这样被养育长大的，你会觉得你可以做任何事。

So this is the kind of thing also where I feel like and and as women, especially especially raised the way that we are, it's like, you can do anything.

你可以学习任何东西。

You can learn anything.

你可以做到这一点。

You could do this.

我希望每个人都能共同接受一件事：我做不到，这也没关系。

This is a thing that I would like everyone to collectively accept that I can't do and that's okay.

就像，是的。

Like Yeah.

但我想这就是我的问题。

But but I guess this is my question.

我是漏掉了什么吗，还是说这根本就不是适合你的东西？

Like, I just missing am I missing something or is this just like that's not for you?

我八年前搬到了洛杉矶。

I moved out to Los Angeles eight eight years ago.

嗯。

Mhmm.

自从我搬到这儿以来，就再也没有做过即兴表演了。

And so I haven't done improv since I've been out here.

而且我觉得，你离它越远，是的。

And I think the further that you get away from it Yeah.

显然，这个想法越让人害怕。

Obviously, the more horrifying the idea

因为我就从来没做过，所以是四十四年没做了。

of forty four years away from it because I've never done it right.

不。

No.

你描述的这些让我突然感到一阵焦虑，想起了我离它有多远。

You describing that just gave me a bit of anxiety surge of like remembering how removed I am from it.

不。

No.

这真的非常困难。

It's it's incredibly difficult.

当我还在做的时候，我频繁地进行即兴表演，所以它对我来说就像跑步一样，不是什么特别的事。

At the time that I was doing it, you're I was doing it so frequently that it wasn't, you know, running, like exercise.

你的肌肉已经适应了这种状态。

Your muscles are attuned to this.

你随时准备好了，完全投入其中，和一群人在一起，大家都是经过训练的，就像为马拉松做准备一样。

You're, like, ready to go, and you're in it, and you're with a group of people, and you've all been it's like training for a marathon.

就像那些周日早上一起出门跑步的跑者，我们都是这个世界上的一员，已经为这一刻做好了准备。

Like, runners that wake up on Sunday mornings that go out together that you're, oh, we're all athletes in this world, and we are prepared for this.

我搬来这里几年后，曾找凯特参加了一次即兴表演，那时我已经很久没碰过了。

I did Ask Kat out here, like, a few years after I moved out here and I was away from improv.

这对我来说是最可怕的事情。

It was the most horrifying thing to me.

你只需要一个人讲独白。

I and all you have do is monologue.

我甚至不需要即兴发挥。

I didn't even have to improv.

我只需要上去讲几个故事。

I just had to go and give a couple.

不，没有压力。

No, no pressure.

没有任何期待，因为所有出色的即兴演员都会通过接住你的故事让你显得很棒。

There's no expectations because all of the amazing improvisers are gonna make you look good by taking your story.

我仍然有那种感觉，他们会说，提示是鞋子。

I still felt exactly like that, that they'd be like, here the the suggestion is shoes.

他们会说，我这辈子从来没穿过鞋。

They'd be like, I've never worn shoes in my life.

我不知道这是什么东西。

I have no idea what these are.

我对这些完全没有任何故事。

I have no stories about any of this.

但一旦你打破了脑海中那道小小的屏障，它就像再也无法重新打开一样。就像你说的，如果我能改变在恐慌时刻的思维能量，不再想着大家对我的失望，而是专注于在舞台上做任何事，我可能会得到完全不同的结果，也不会那晚哭着睡去。

And it was but that as soon as you that, like, little barrier in your brain, like, shuts, it's like impossible to reopen that And door like you said, if I were able to, like, change or pivot the energy that I'm able to have in the moments of panic, thinking about everyone's disappointment in me to just doing anything on stage, I would probably have a very different outcome and I wouldn't have to cry myself to sleep that night.

但这真的非常困难。

But it's it's incredibly difficult.

而且我也试着理性地分析，因为我确实经历过那些糟糕的演出，回家后整个人都被吞噬了。

It's also like, I try to rationalize because I've had those nights where I've had terrible shows and I've gone home and it's like consumed me.

我真的是最糟糕的。

And I'm I'm The worst.

我对自己极度失望，觉得自己已经彻底失去了能力。

So disappointed in myself, and I feel like I've lost it.

仿佛我曾经拥有的那点魔法，永远消失了，再也找不回来了。

Like, whatever magic I might have, like, held onto is gone forever, and there's no getting it back.

我努力提醒自己，我之所以如此失望，是因为我在乎这件事，我想做好它，这其实挺棒的。

I try to remember, like, the reason that I'm so disappointed is because I care about this, because I wanna do well at this, and that's kinda cool.

我不确定该拿这点想法怎么办，但如果我能对自己在失望时更温柔一点，因为我真的非常在乎它。

I don't know where to go with that necessarily, but if I can start to, like, be more gentle with myself in my disappointment because I just I really care about it.