The GLP-1 Warning No One Is Giving You: Dr. Stacy Sims on Muscle Loss, Birth Control, Perimenopause & the Female Physiology Research That Was Never Done

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，虽然可以搞个标语，但我们都知道，孤独感和社交媒体的影响非常大。

I mean, could have a tagline, but we also know that the isolation and social media stuff has a massive effect.

如果你从小就能不断刷到内容，获得多巴胺刺激，那这对大脑到底会有什么影响？

And, you know, if you're consistently seeing and getting a dopamine hit when you're a young age, it's like, how is that also affecting the brain?

还有澳大利亚那边，现在禁止16岁以下孩子使用社交媒体，这事你注意到了吗？

Then watching the whole, no social media for 16 and younger that's happening in Australia.

对，虽然有漏洞，但孩子们现在反而开始玩拼图和卡牌游戏了，他们自己都说：等等，这不就是我们小时候干的事吗？

Yeah, there's some loopholes, but now the kids are actually going out and doing puzzles and card games because they're like, I was like, wait, that's how we grew up.

那叫固定电话。

It's called the landline.

嘿，要不要约个见面？

Hey, wanna meet Sure.

这其实就是把他们从过去那种常态里拉出来，给了他们去发现别的生活方式的机会，从而缓解了那些焦虑。

It's just taking them out of what was considered the norm and giving them the opportunity to find something else, which is reducing those anxieties.

而且，尤其是女孩的焦虑和抑郁情绪明显上升，不幸的是，现在男孩也受到了影响。

Well, and I and I also, I mean, the the spike in anxiety and depression in particular for girls, and unfortunately, this has spread to boys as well.

很多讨论都集中在身材形象上，这正是我想转到的话题。

So much of the focus, and this is kinda where I wanna segue, you know, so much of the focus is about body image.

对吧？

Right?

大家都在关注自己长什么样。

It's it's about what we look like.

以前一度流行过身体积极的理念，但现在没人提了，至少在公共场合的审美标准上，又回到了老样子。

You know, there was a period where body positivity seemed to be a thing, but now it's not a thing, and we're kind of back to, you know, at least sort of in kind of public arenas of beauty standards, right?

现在又开始推崇极端瘦削的身材了。

We're seeing a swing back to very, very thin.

GLP类药物确实很有效，对需要它们的病人来说能救命，但很多人其实是在用它来美容。

And we have these GLP drugs, which are incredible and can be lifesaving for people who need them medically, but a lot of people are using them, I guess, somewhat cosmetically.

我想知道，你刚开始做研究、攻读学位的时候，作为一名运动员，你当时对女性健康的理解是怎样的？现在这种看法有什么变化吗？

I'm curious if you can talk about even when you started studying, you know, when you were working towards all of your degrees, you know, what was your kind of perspective as an athlete on what health looked like for women, and how has that changed?

确实变了。

Oh, it's changed.

我刚起步那会儿，还是老一套：卡路里摄入要少，运动要多，花很长时间才能减重。

I mean, when I first started, it was still the calories in, calories out, exercise for a really long period of time to lose weight.

那时候大家一谈新陈代谢，根本不理解它真正的含义，这种观念特别普遍。

And when you start looking at metabolism and not putting it into the context of what it actually means, that was still very pervasive.

普通人在大学健身房里，人人都在爬楼梯机上练。

So the general recreational person, when you go into, like, the university gym back then, everyone's on the StairMaster.

根本没人去举铁。

Like, no one's in the weight room.

也不是所有女生都这样。

Not all of the women.

我们有些人一直在举重。

Some of us were weightlifting.

对，我们确实有人在举铁。

Yeah, some of us were weightlifting.

或者你看看这种情况，这些年变化在于，越来越多关于力量训练的研究出现了。

Or, you know, you're looking at that, and then how it's changed over the years is people started doing more research in the strength training.

我得承认，CrossFit 确实把举重这件事带进了主流视野，让大家觉得举重没什么不对。

I mean, I do have to credit CrossFit for bringing it into the mainstream of lifting weights is fine.

随着力量训练的研究不断深入，整个健身行业都在发生巨大转变——有氧器械越来越少，举重平台越来越多。

So as you're starting to get more research into strength training, we're seeing huge massive shifts in the whole fitness industry where they're getting rid of more and more of the cardio and bringing in the lifting platforms.

但现在情况可能又要变了，因为现在GLP-1这类东西火起来了。

But now that might change because of the GLP-one things that are happening.

这让我很生气，因为我花了很多时间，你知道，我有个女儿，她刚满13岁，我和她还有她的朋友们一直努力避免饮食文化渗透到家里和她的足球队里。

And that makes me angry because I've spent so much time with, you know, I have a daughter and she's just now 13, and we've spent so much time with her and her friends to not have diet culture in and around our household and her soccer team.

我们一直跟她们说，要强壮，要快速，要有力气，要根据你的运动需求来补充能量。

We've always been, let's be strong, let's be fast, let's be powerful, let's fuel for what we're doing.

她们现在还是这么说，可一刷Instagram或者TikTok，看到的完全是另一种形象。

And they still say that, but then someone will come in with Instagram or TikTok and they have a different image now.

我们到底在搞什么？

It's like, what are we doing?

我们到底在传递什么信息？

What are we saying?

这根本不是健康的样子。

It's like, no, that's, that is not a picture of health.

所以我跟他们解释，骨密度下降、肌肉流失这些后果。

So I explain what's going on and the loss of bone density, the loss of muscle mass.

我们还不知道长期会有什么影响。

We don't know the long term effects of it.

我敢肯定，那些在格莱美颁奖礼上被镜头拍到的人，没法像我女儿和她的队友那样冲刺、完成角球。

And I'm pretty sure the people who were at the Grammys with the camera on them cannot do corner kicks sprint down the field like my daughter and her team.

所以我一直强调，当下我们最需要的是强大和有力。

So I just keep bringing it back to, in the moment, we need to be strong and powerful.

对普通女性来说，强大和有力意味着，你挺直腰板走进房间，即使心里没底，也能显得自信。

And for the general woman, being strong and powerful, I mean, you sit up straight and walk into a room, you have confidence even if you don't have confidence.

这种自信，来自于你真正有能力去完成你想做的事。

And that comes from being able to be strong in what you are doing.

所以没错，我见证了这个变化，但我不喜欢它正在倒退的方向。

So yes, I've seen the evolution, and I don't like the way it's going backwards.

我们能不能花点时间聊聊，使用这些GLP-1药物可能导致肌肉流失的风险？

Can we talk for a moment about the risk of lack of a loss of muscle with these GLP-1s?

人们实际上是在拿自己的身体做什么？

What are people actually doing to themselves?

没错。

Yes.

我一直关注这个问题，因为在健身圈里，我们经常被问到：这到底意味着什么？

So, I've been following this because we get asked this all the time in the fitness world, like, what does this mean?

《美国医学会杂志》发表了一篇综述，系统梳理了所有研究使用这类药物人群的论文，包括停药后的追踪数据。

So JAMA published a review, and it was a systematic review of all the papers that were looking at the individuals that went on it and then went off it.

他们拿这个跟《最重量级减肥者》那类案例做对比，结果发现情况非常相似。

So they were comparing that to the literature that was based on The Biggest Loser, you know, and they were like, they found that it's very similar.

你确实减掉了大量体重，但之后会大幅反弹，而反弹回来的不是肌肉也不是骨头，是脂肪。

You lose all this weight and then you have this massive rebound, but it's not muscle and it's not bone, it's fat.

而且你之前靠GLP-1获得的所有代谢控制都倒退了，情况变得更糟。

And all the metabolic control that you got with the GLP-one reversed and got worse.

心血管代谢风险因素全都上升了。

Cardio metabolic risk factors went up.

所以对我们健身圈来说，看到这种情况，就必须让生活方式干预跟上，人才能安心停药。

So when you're looking at that for us in the fitness world, we're like, you have to put that lifestyle intervention in play in order for someone to make a decision to come off.

他们本来就养成了好习惯，骨骼强健，肌肉也扎实。

They already have these good habits and they have really strong bones and they have strong muscle.

因为你要明白，肌肉不是死的组织，它是活跃的。

Because if you're thinking about what is muscle, it's an active tissue.

它能吸收葡萄糖。

It's a glucose sink.

它直接影响心血管代谢健康，帮你活得更有活力，不早衰。

It is a cardiometabolic health profile and it helps you age well and not be decrepit.

我们看到，男女在健康寿命和整体寿命上的差异，确实是真实存在的。

And we see that the sex difference in health span and lifespan is completely real.

而且我们看到，女性在健康状况不佳的情况下生活的时间更长。

And we see a longer amount of time of women living in a poor state of health.

这其中一部分原因还在于阿尔茨海默病和痴呆症。

And part of that also is Alzheimer's and dementia.

所以，如果我们想降低痴呆和阿尔茨海默病的风险，关键就是避免肌肉流失。

So if we look at some of the ways that we can attenuate that dementia and Alzheimer's risk, it's through not having sarcopenia.

通过力量训练就能做到。

It's by doing strength training.

还要做很多其他事，来提升前额叶皮层的神经可塑性和神经连接。

It's by doing a whole bunch of things that are gonna create, increased neuroplasticity and, neural connectivity in the prefrontal cortex.

我们发现，进行较重的力量训练、增加肌肉量，确实能带来这些效果。

And we see that happens with heavier strength training and building that muscle.

每次看到这个群体，我脑子里就冒出《机器人总动员》里的场景——所有人都漂浮着，有个体跌倒后根本站不起来，因为他已经没有站起的能力了。

So when I look at this population, all I can think about is Wall E, the movie Wall E, where everyone was floating and he fell off and he couldn't stand up because he didn't have the capability of standing up.

我不禁担心：十年后，当这些因为美容或其他健康原因长期依赖药物、却从未接受过必要生活方式干预的人越来越多时，医疗系统会变成什么样？

And I'm like, Oh my gosh, what is going to happen to the healthcare system in ten years with all these people who have been on it for either cosmetic reasons or other health reasons, but haven't been given the lifestyle intervention that they need in order to progress?

而且从一些大型研究来看，实际的情况是，你用GLP-1减掉每十磅体重，其中多达四磅可能是肌肉，差不多占了一半。

Well, and I think one of the, you know, ways to kind of practically think about this is, you know, what it looks like from some of these large studies is that, you know, for every 10 pounds that you lose on a GLP-one, up to four pounds of that can come from muscle, which means almost 50%.

这意味着你的瘦体重在减少。

And that's a reduction in that lean muscle mass.

所以你之所以这么瘦，是因为你的肌肉已经没了。

So the reason that you're so skinny is that your muscles no longer exist.

它们正从你身上一点点流失，而肌肉本来是有重量的。

They're just falling off your body and they carry weight.

现在你体重轻了，身材变瘦了，衣服穿起来也不一样了。

And so now you weigh less, and you're thinner, and clothes fit differently.

但我听一些朋友分享过，他们停药之后，感觉好像什么都没改变。

But I think, you know, what I've heard from just, you know, anecdotally from friends of mine who have been on it, when you go off it, it's as if nothing changed.

也就是说，那些旧的念头、习惯和行为模式，全都回来了。

Meaning, the voices come back, the all of those patterns, behaviors, you know, all that stuff comes back.

我们并不是说别用GLP-1，但事情绝对没像广告里说得那么简单。

And this is not not for us to say, don't go on a GLP-one, but there's definitely, this is not as simple as I think it's been made out to be, especially in all those commercials.

这没那么简单。

It's not simple.

你可以看看肥胖诊所里的一些生活方式项目，他们特别注重加入认知行为疗法和其他实际可行的方法，帮助人们在使用GLP-1药物时，应对那些被压制的声音。

You can look at some of the lifestyle programs that are in the obesity clinics, and they're really careful to also include cognitive behavior therapy, other methods that people can actually practice and lean into when they are on the GLP-one because of the silencing of the voices.

所以，这其实是为你提供一套工具，万一哪天你打算或需要停药，还能用得上。

So again, it's giving the tools that you can have if you need to or want to come off the drug.

但制药公司不希望我们说这些，因为他们希望所有人都长期用药。

But the pharma companies don't want us to say that because they want everyone to stay on it forever.

我们偏偏喜欢说制药公司不想让我们说的事。

We love to say the things that the pharma companies don't want us to say.

我觉得明·比亚利克的分析得到了Mudwater的支持。

Think it's Mind Bialik's breakdown is supported by Mudwater.

乔纳森和我都特别喜欢Mudwater。

Jonathan and I really love our Mudwater.

我挺喜欢姜黄拿铁的。

I'm a fan of the turmeric latte.

它让我们精力充沛，却不会让人心慌意乱，我还发现它能缓解那种常说的脑子发沉的感觉。

It makes us feel energized without those jitters, and I've noticed it makes a difference in what sometimes feels like a brain fog.

Mudwater 的经典配方是一种咖啡替代品，含有可可、姜黄茶、姜黄，还有猴头菇和灵芝这类功能性蘑菇；你也可以试试他们的低咖啡因款，用的是有机阿拉比卡咖啡豆、L-茶氨酸，以及和他们其他产品一样的功能性蘑菇。

Mudwater's original blend is a coffee alternative made with cacao, chai, turmeric, and functional mushrooms like lion's mane and reishi, or try their low calf coffee made with organic Arabica coffee beans, L Theanine, and the same functional mushrooms you get in their other blends.

口感浓郁顺滑，咖啡因含量只有四十五毫克。

It's rich, smooth, and only forty five milligrams of caffeine.

Mudwater 让你每天早上轻松开启好状态，现在全美 Target 和 Sprouts 商店都能买到，让美好的早晨变得前所未有的简单。

Mud water makes it ridiculously easy to start the day feeling good, and now you can grab it at Target and Sprouts nationwide, making better mornings easier than ever.

用 Mudwater 很简单，把粉倒进你最喜欢的杯子，加点热水搅一搅就行。

To use mud water, you just drop the powder into your favorite mug, pour some water on it, and give it a mix.

热着喝、冰着喝都行。

You can drink it hot or cold.

最让人惊讶的是，这种能量能稳稳持续，不会忽高忽低。

And the thing that people notice first is that the energy just stays.

早上九点不会突然兴奋，下午两点也不会突然垮掉。

There's no spike at nine, no crash at two.

一整天都保持平稳。

It's steady all day.

准备好换成更纯净的能量来源了吗？

Ready to make the switch to cleaner energy?

去 mudwater.com 看看吧。

Head to mudwater.com.

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Grab your starter kit today.

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Right now, our listeners get an exclusive deal up to 43% off starter kits plus free shipping and a free awesome rechargeable frother when you use the code break.

没错。

That's right.

在 mudwtr.com 使用优惠码 break，最高立减 43%。

Up to 43% off with the code break at mudwtr.com.

下单之后，他们会问你从哪里了解到他们的。

After your purchase, they'll ask how you found them.

请给予支持。

Please show your support.

告诉他们是我们让你来的。

Let them know we sent you.

有必要再次强调肌肉量对整体健康和长寿的重要性，因为我认为我们在说，你可能更瘦了。

Important to reiterate the importance of muscle mass for overall health as well as longevity because it can you I think we're saying you could be thinner.

但这并不意味着你在所有方面都更健康。

That doesn't mean you're being healthier in all regards.

但你的肌肉量偏少。

But you're thinner.

请谈谈你提到的肌肉量对整体健康以及长寿的重要性。

Talk about the importance of muscle mass as you describe it for overall health as well as longevity.

是的，现在确实存在一个普遍现象，发生在十几岁到三十多岁的年轻人身上，他们的骨量没有达到峰值。

Yeah, there is actually an endemic right now that's happening in our teenagers through 20s and 30s, where they're not reaching peak bone mass.

部分原因也是肌肉量不足，因为我们知道，骨骼受到牵拉时，肌肉在发育的同时，骨骼也在同步发育。

And part of that is also, not having enough muscle because we know that when you have pull on the bone, you also have, you know, you're developing muscle, you're also developing the bone.

现在早发性肌肉流失的情况越来越普遍，这意味着肌肉质量低下，再加上久坐不动的生活方式和西方社会的种种问题，导致骨质疏松风险上升。如果这时候再叠加GLP-1这类药物，我们就得认真反思了。

And when we're looking at the rates of, of sarcopenia that's happening in an earlier standpoint, which means that you don't have high quality muscle, and the osteoporosis risks that are coming because of the sedentary lifestyle and all the things that are happening in Western world, then if you're adding GLP-one onto that, it's like, okay, wait a second, we really have to take stock.

肌肉到底有什么用？

Because what does muscle do?

它可不只是把骨架撑起来那么简单。

It's not just holding your skeleton together.

它在身体里承担着太多重要的功能。

It is responsible for so many, processes in the body.

如果我们想控制血糖，避免得糖尿病，那就得靠肌肉——因为肌肉是身体里最大的葡萄糖消耗池。

So if we want glucose control, because we don't want diabetes, muscle, because it is a huge glucose sink.

我们得能轻松爬楼梯，不气喘吁吁。

We want to be able to walk up the stairs without being completely out of breath.

我们需要肌肉，也得好好锻炼它。

We need muscle, we need to train that muscle.

我们还希望大脑更有活力，更有创造力，更能应对压力。

We see that we want more brain development for innovation and having capacity to be stress resilient.

肌肉和这一点是相关的。

Muscle is associated with that.

这不只是为了看起来瘦削有力。

It's not just about looking lean and strong.

关键是真正地拥有力量。

It's about actually being strong.

当人们谈论减重时，我特别认同加布里埃尔·莱昂的观点：我们要以肌肉为中心。

And when people are talking about weight loss, I really like to lean into Gabrielle Lyon's idea of let's be muscle centric.

这不该只想着要减掉什么，而该想想我们能获得什么。

That's not thinking about what we have to lose, but let's think about what we have to gain.

如果我们以肌肉为核心，考虑增加肌肉和骨骼能带来什么，就能提升生活质量。

So if we are muscle centric and thinking about what do we have to gain if we are putting muscle on and bone on, we have the capacity to gain a higher quality of life.

无论你处于哪个年龄段，这一点都成立。

And that holds true for whatever age you are.

那种非得瘦才行、或者只该举轻重量的说法，完全脱节了。

And this whole rhetoric of we need to be thin or we need to lift light weights and, and there's just, just this disconnect.

我们应该真正关注这个人本身，关注他们的需求，从内而外地去构建。

It's like, no, we want to really focus on who the person is, what their needs are, and really build from the inside out.

所以我总是鼓励大家想一想，如果你只盯着减重，那你到底要失去什么？

And so I'm always pushing people to think about, if you are focused on weight loss, what do you have to lose?

你其实会失去很多东西。

You have a whole bunch of things to lose.

你可能会减掉一些脂肪，对吧？

You might lose some fat tissue, right?

但与此同时，你正在失去生活质量。

But we are losing our quality of life.

你失去了做出明智选择的能力，因为你整天想着‘这个不能吃’‘那个也不能吃’。

We're losing our ability to make wise choices because now we're concentrating on the fact that I can't eat that, I can't eat this.

睡眠也会被打断，很多人半夜因为血糖骤降而醒来，根本原因是营养摄入不够。

Sleep gets interrupted because we see a lot of people who wake up with hypoglycemic spikes, comes up as little awakenings during sleep because they're actually not fueling well enough.

很多女性尝试节食或禁食，长时间不吃饭，结果反而更容易反弹，体脂反而增加，还导致微量营养素缺乏。

For a lot of women trying to do calorie restriction or fasting and having these large periods where they're not eating rebounds, they put more fat on and they get micronutrient depletion.

如果我们换个角度，想想增加肌肉能带来什么好处？

If we switch it and say, what do we have to gain with putting muscle on?

这完全不一样了。

It actually flips the switch.

我们对吃的东西更有掌控感。

We have more control over what we're eating.

睡眠质量也更好了。

We have better sleep.

免疫力也提升了。

We have better immunity.

血糖控制得更稳定了。

We have better blood glucose control.

认知功能也变得更清晰了。

We have better cognitive function.

所以现在我一直在反驳那些说‘瘦就是好’的人。

So this is the pushback that I'm having right now against everyone who's like, Oh, thin is good.

其实我们失去的远不止外表而已。

It's like, no, we lose so much more than just what we look like.

当我们关注健康和应对压力的能力时，失去的东西更多了。

We lose so much more when we're looking at health and stress resilience capacity.

这里有三点我们需要展开说说。

There's three points here that we need to expand on.

第一点是跟那些说‘我想塑形，但不想长肌肉’的人聊聊。

The first is speak to the person who's like, I just want to be toned, but I don't want to bulk.

为什么力量训练这么重要？

Why is it so important to lift heavy?

对女性来说，随着年龄增长，肌肉的功能会出现明显的衰退。

So for women, we see that as you get older, there's an aging discrepancy in the way our muscle functions.

如果我们从收缩蛋白的角度来看，主要有两种关键蛋白：肌动蛋白和肌球蛋白。

So if we think about the actual contractile proteins, so if we think there are two key contractile proteins, we have actin and we have myosin.

肌动蛋白会和肌球蛋白结合，形成非常牢固的连接。

Actin grabs onto myosin and they come together and they become very strong in a bond.

当神经发出放松的信号时，它们就会松开。

And then when they get the signal from the nerve to let go, they let go.

肌球蛋白会失去正常功能。

Myosin becomes dysfunctional.

它的结构会发生变化。

It changes its form.

所以肌球蛋白的亚型变得不太容易与肌动蛋白结合。

So, the isoform of myosin becomes a little bit less apt to be able to grab onto actin.

因此，如果我们想知道为什么要举重，那是因为我们需要保持神经与肌肉的连接，让肌球蛋白不失去功能。

So if we're looking at why are we lifting heavy, we want to have a neuromuscular connection that is telling myosin not to become dysfunctional.

另一个关键点是，雌激素也直接影响肌球蛋白的功能。

The other capacity about it is estrogen is tightly tied to the way myosin functions as well.

随着女性年龄增长，不仅肌肉功能会出现老化差异，性激素——尤其是雌激素——也会发生变化。

So as women get older, not only do you have this aging discrepancy, but you also have a change in our sex hormones, especially estrogen.

情况会变得更糟。

It becomes even more dysfunctional.

所以如果我们讨论举重，关键在于神经肌肉的连接，它能让你产生强大有力的收缩，而这正是健康寿命的重要预测指标。

So if we're looking at lifting heavy, it's that neuromuscular connection to create that strong and powerful contraction, which we know is a significant predictor for really good health span.

同时，这种神经肌肉的连接还能帮助延缓前额叶皮层的认知衰退，而且你不会变得肌肉发达。

We also are getting neuromuscular connection, which helps with prefrontal cortex, cognitive decline attenuation, and you don't get bulky.

那种说法完全是误解。

Like that's a myth.

你得特别特别特别努力，才会真的练出大块肌肉。

You have to work really, really, really hard to get bulky.

得天天泡在健身房，长期坚持，还要有科学的周期训练计划，再加上吃很多才行。

Being in the gym for days on end for long periods of time, having appropriate periodized program, eating a lot.

如果你只是想塑形，那就去举重吧。

So if you're like, I just want to tone up, do some heavy lifting.

你不仅能收获所有这些好处，而且每次训练时间很短，根本花不了多少时间。

Because you will, and you'll get all of these benefits, and it's a very short, timeframe, so it doesn't take a lot of time.

太棒了。

Amazing.

聊聊因为摄入不足导致睡眠紊乱这个问题。

Touch on this idea of disturbed sleep from not fueling enough.

这太有意思了。

That's fascinating.

这跟我们之前观察到的女性运动员能量摄入不足的情况有关。

So, it comes a little bit from what we were seeing in our female athletes who had low energy availability.

她们睡眠质量很差，经常醒来，恢复得也不好。

They were having really poor, disruptive sleep and not recovering well.

于是我们给她们戴上了连续血糖监测仪，发现睡眠期间血糖波动特别明显。

So, we put some CGMs on them and, we saw all these variations in the blood glucose profile across sleep.

大多数人的血糖会降到低血糖水平，而这些时段正好对应她们穿戴设备记录的醒来时刻。

And most of them dropped into hypoglycemic, time periods that corresponded with awakenings on their wearables.

后来我们把她们送到睡眠实验室，确认这些醒来不是手腕乱动造成的假象，结果还是一样。

So then we put them into a sleep lab to make sure that the awakenings were true and not just a wrist movement and it was the same thing.

所以我们意识到，既然你白天吃得太少，那就得看看你一天中什么时候吃、怎么吃，好配合你的生物钟和训练安排。

So then we're like, okay, we know that you're not eating enough in the day, so we could look at where you're eating through the day to work with your circadian rhythm and your training.

如果我们发现你还是经常醒来，睡前就吃一点蛋白质，这样能提供持续释放的消化效果，帮助稳定血糖。

And then if we see that you're still having these awakenings, we're going to have a bolus of protein before bed because that's going to kind of mainstay slow digestive aspect and it's going to help maintain your blood glucose.

结果他们的睡眠质量大幅提升，睡眠结构也改善了，早上醒来感觉特别好。

And then they were sleeping really well, sleep architecture changed, and they woke up feeling amazing.

你们会给他们吃些什么？

What would you give them?

具体是哪种蛋白质？

A bolus of what?

十四块九毛九，其实就是半杯无脂希腊酸奶，里面含有酪蛋白和乳清蛋白，这两种蛋白一个是快速吸收的。

Fourteen point nine nine dollars So, it was really just a half a cup of nonfat Greek yogurt you have quetzine and whey, And that is the two proteins that, one, it is a fast digestive.

乳清蛋白是快速吸收的。

Whey is fast digestive.

酪蛋白是缓慢释放的。

Casing is slow.

量不多，不会让身体忙着消化，而不是好好休息。

It's not a massive amount of food, so your body doesn't go into, I'm going to digest instead of rest.

所以，真正起作用的，是酸奶提供的那20克蛋白质。

So, it was really 20 grams of protein from yogurt that helped significantly.

对。

Yeah.

于是我们把这个方法应用到了普通健身人群和那些睡眠不好、又想坚持间歇性禁食的人身上。

And so, we translated into, like, recreational athletes and people who were having difficulty sleeping and are trying to follow, like, a fasting schedule.

所以我们得调整一下，根据昼夜节律来安排营养摄入。

So, we just kind of have to rejig it off to let's fuel for what the circadian rhythm is doing.

如果你晚上还是容易醒，那就试试睡前吃点酸奶。

And then if you're still having awakenings, then we'll look at having some yogurt before bed.

睡前多久吃？有没有素食替代品？

How long before bed and what's the vegan alternative?

有这种替代品吗？

Is there one?

其实是有素食替代品的。

There is a vegan alternative, actually.

豌豆蛋白分离物。

Pea protein isolate.

如果你觉得睡前吃这个不太舒服，我们可以把无味的豌豆蛋白分离物混进椰子酸奶里。

And if you're like, that doesn't sound so great right before bed, we would take some unflavored pea protein isolate and put it into some coconut yogurt.

这样口感就和酸奶差不多了，而且效果一样，因为豌豆蛋白分离物的氨基酸组成和酸奶非常接近。

So it was similar to yogurt, and it hit all the notes because pea protein isolate is very similar in amino acid profile as yogurt, and it worked the same.

我们建议在睡前一小时到半小时之间吃。

And we're looking an hour to thirty minutes before bed.

而且，这并不是吃很多东西。

And again, it's not a lot of food.

只有半杯而已，量很少。

It's only a half a cup, so it's not that much.

你已经被建议了。

You've been prescribed.

你已经被建议了。

You've been prescribed.

但我就会想，要是加点葵花籽呢？

But I'll be like, what if I add some sunflower seeds?

那

And what

要是把它搞得热闹一点呢？

if I, you know, make it a little party?

那不就成了格兰诺拉麦片配巧克力和花生吗？

That's some granola and chocolate with peanut

啊。

it.

嗯。

Okay.

不行。

No.

不一样。

Different

消息。

message.

可能得起床。

Probably wake up.

不过，也许可以淋一点可可豆碎，增加一点巧克力的脆感，而且它不含咖啡因。

But maybe, I don't know, a little drizzle of cacao nibs for a little bit of chocolate crunch because it doesn't have the caffeine in it.

所以是这样。

So yeah.

这就引出了禁食的问题，尤其是限时进食，男性和女性对它的反应有什么不同？

This leads us to fasting and the difference in fasting, especially, time restricted eating that how do men and women respond differently to that?

他们应该对此采取不同的看法吗？

Should they be thinking differently about it?

是的，我因为在社交媒体上从生理学和生物节律的角度谈这个问题，经常遭到质疑。

Yeah, I get a lot of pushback on social media for this because I'm coming from it from a physiological and chronobiology standpoint.

我不是从健身圈的角度来看待这个问题的。

I'm not coming from the fitness world.

所以当我们观察这一点时，需要特别关注昼夜节律中的性别差异。

So when we look at it, really paying attention to the sex differences in our circadian rhythm.

我们知道男性的昼夜节律周期比女性稍长，而女性的节律则与一天中激素水平的波动紧密相关。

So we know that men's is a little bit longer than women's, and women's is tightly tied as men's as to our hormone perturbations throughout the day.

我们知道女性在醒来后的皮质醇反应峰值更高，同时我们所谓的乙酰化胃饥饿素——也就是我们饥饿激素的活性形式——也会出现峰值，此外还有肽YY，也就是PYY。

We know that women have a higher peak for their cortisol awakening response, and with that is a peak in what we call our acetylated ghrelin, which is our active form of our hunger hormone, and also, Peptide YY or PYY.

如果我们醒来后半小时左右没有进食，皮质醇水平就会保持高位，进而让乙酰化胃饥饿素也维持在较高水平。

If we don't eat within a half an hour or so of waking up, that cortisol stays elevated and keeps that acetylated ghrelin elevated.

而肽YY就像是在旁边待着，没能发挥它本该有的作用，也就是没有刺激下丘脑去发出‘有营养摄入’的信号。

And Peptide YY kind of just kind of hangs out and it doesn't do the thing that it's supposed to do by stimulating the hypothalamus to say, There's some nutrition.

所以我们不需要感到饥饿。

We don't have to be hungry.

因此，当我们尝试长时间禁食时，下午往往会更容易暴饮暴食。

So when we're looking at holding it fast, we end up having more of a wall lean in the afternoon.

我们白天的无意识活动也变少了，而且下午会特别渴望吃简单的碳水化合物，能量也会明显下降。这是因为我们实际上打乱了生物钟，就像在值夜班或者时差没倒过来一样，干扰了体内正常的激素脉冲分泌，这其中也包括调节食欲的激素。

We don't have as much incidental movement throughout the day, and we see there's this big craving for simple carbohydrates in the afternoon and a significant drop in energy because what we've done is we've effectively phase shifted as if we were doing night shift or were jet lagged because it interferes with the normal hormone pulse throughout the day, which also includes our appetite hormones.

所以大脑会认为这里有点不对劲，导致饥饿感和真正得到营养之间的联系出现了脱节。

So the brain is perceiving this as what's, you know, there's a little bit of a dysfunction here, so it becomes a disconnect between what it means to be hungry and what it means to be nourished.

男性的情况没那么紧密，因为当女性的无脂肪质量低于每公斤35卡路里时，身体才会出现功能紊乱，而男性的临界点要低得多。

When we look at men's, it's not as tightly tied to that because the baseline for dysfunction is different when we see women who drop below 35 calories per kilogram fat free mass end up with dysfunction.

男性是15。

For men, it's 15.

所以从这个基础阈值来看，营养密度不足对男性下丘脑的冲击，远没有对女性那么强烈。

So if we're thinking about that baseline set point, the idea of not having as much nutrient density is not as severe a response to men's hypothalamus as it is to women's.

所以当我们讨论限时进食和禁食的区别时，如果从昼夜节律的角度来看——早上醒来半小时内吃点东西，然后全天持续补充能量，晚餐后除了必要的夜间蛋白质补充外不再进食，这样就能自然实现12到14小时的夜间空腹期。

So when we talk about time restricted eating versus fasting, if you're looking at how we work with chronobiology, if you wake up and have some food within a half an hour or so, and then you're fueling throughout the day, then you have dinner, you don't have anything after dinner unless you have to have your nighttime bolus of protein, then you can end up with a twelve to fourteen hour overnight fast.

以前我们根本不用专门叫它禁食，那就是睡觉。

We used to just call that sleeping.

还有晚上起夜，对吧？

And already peeing, right?

我们小时候不都是这样过来的吗？

That's how we grew up.

这就相当于，哦，禁食十二个小时。

This is like, oh, it's a twelve hour fast.

这其实就叫睡觉。

It's called I slept.

对吧。

Right.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

我吃了晚饭。

I ate dinner.

我没吃零食。

I didn't And snack all

然后我也没有用食物来压抑情绪。

then I didn't stuff my feelings down with food.

然后我睡了，整晚都没醒过来吃三明治。

And then I slept, and I didn't wake up in the middle of the night and eat a sandwich.

没错。

Exactly.

但这个世界变得很奇怪，因为热量随时随地都能吃到。

But, but the world has become very strange because calories are available all the time.

而且，临床医学界和健身圈完全不一样，但很多临床研究的数据却被直接套用到健身领域，没人问这些结论到底能不能推广。

But then we have this whole, like, the clinical world is different from the fitness world, but yet so much clinical stuff gets pulled over without saying if it's actually generalizable or not.

你看到禁食、限制热量这些方法，对肥胖人群或其他特定群体确实有效，但并不适合所有人。

Because you see that fasting and holding, and calorie restriction and holding food is very appropriate in the obese and some other populations, but it's not.

当你看健身圈的时候，人们追求的是最大化运动效果、最大化睡眠质量。

When you're looking at the health and fitness world, when people are trying to maximize what they're doing from an exercise standpoint, maximize their sleep.

所以，如果非得控制热量，不如把摄入集中在早上，别拖到十一点、十二点才吃第一餐。

So, if you have to have a small calorie restriction, then it's better to front load your calories and not hold your fast till eleven or twelve.

到了那个点，男女都会开始出现身体失衡的问题。

That's when you start to see dysfunction in both men and women.

有群体研究显示，无论是男性还是女性，如果把破餐时间拖得太晚，代谢控制和心血管代谢风险指标都不会有改善。

There's population research that shows that both men and women having a late break of their fast end up with no improvement in metabolic control or cardio metabolic risk factors.

所以，如果你早点结束禁食，而不是把进食时间推迟到一天很晚的时候。

So if you do fast end earlier versus starting your eating later in the day.

没错。

Exactly.

如果让我总结一下，从体脂率的角度来看，男性在体脂降到更低水平之前，通常不会出现代谢问题或激素紊乱，而女性则需要维持更高的体脂比例。

And if I can just reflect back, what it sounds like is at an overall body fat standpoint, men can drop to a lower body fat before there starts to be metabolic issues and hormone disruption where women need that additional body fat percentage.

如果你把体脂减得太低，问题就会接踵而至。

And if you start to reduce that too significantly, you're going to have issues.

没错。

Exactly.

你提到了现在大家都在谈的肽类物质。

You brought up peptides, everyone is talking about right now.

有很多人把它们吹得天花乱坠，说是世上最棒的东西。

There's a ton of people who are absolutely pushing them as the world's greatest thing.

还有人说这些肽类药物缺乏监管，也没有充分的数据支持。

Other people who talk about how they're unregulated and unproven and there isn't the data.

那我们该怎么看待这个问题呢？特别是像BPC-157这样声称能加速恢复的物质，还有人往里加NAC或者其他东西来增强效果。

Where should how should we be thinking about this, especially for BPC-one hundred fifty seven that promises to have this faster recovery time, other people who are supercharging, injecting with NAC or others?

我们该怎么理性评估肽类药物的风险和收益呢？

How can we start to understand the risks and benefits of peptides?

明白了。

Okay.

我来打个比方，想象一个烤得特别糟糕的蛋糕，歪歪扭扭还烤糊了，然后你再往上面抹一层精美的奶油霜。

So, I'm going to bring you back to an image of, a really badly made cake coming out of the oven that's kind of lopsided and burnt, and then you try to put a beautiful buttercream on it.

结果会怎样？

What happens?

奶油霜一碰就化，全搅和成一团乱糟糟的。

The buttercream melts and becomes a mess.

肽类药物的情况，就跟这蛋糕一样。

So, that's what peptides are.

如果你连基础都没打好，干嘛还指望用那些号称能提升效果的东西呢？

If you're not taking care of your foundation, then why are you gonna try to use something that's supposedly supposed to create enhancements?

但说到大家现在怎么看待这个问题，其实真正扎实的研究真的很少。

But only that, when we're looking at, you know, how people are approaching this, there is not a lot of robust research.

而且现在市面上这些产品，根本没人监管。

And when you're looking at the formulations that are coming through, they are not regulated.

我觉得《纽约时报》做过一次深入调查，发现这些东西里都含有铅之类的有害物质。

I think the New York Times did a deep dive and showed the lead qualities that were in all of these things.

那些公司怎么规避责任呢？就说‘仅供研究使用’。

And the way the companies get around it is to say research purposes only.

说实话，我之前严重拉伤了腿筋，膝盖也受伤了，实在没办法，才用过这些，但根本没看出任何效果。

Full disclosure, I've used them after I had a significant hamstring tear and knee injury because I was desperate, but I didn't see any difference.

后来我开始查里面到底是什么成分，一看简直不敢相信——我居然给自己注射了这种东西？

And then I started doing investigation into, like, what was actually in it, and I'm like, Oh my god, can't believe I injected myself with that stuff.

里面到底有什么？

What's in it?

因为没人监管，所以里面含有大量不同的金属元素。

Well, you see a high level of different metals because it's not regulated.

在这些肽类物质的生产过程中，分解和合成的方式会导致大量铅、汞，以及其他一些有毒金属混入其中——这些本不该出现在任何肽类产品里，因为它们既没经过纯化，也没接受监管。

So, the way the process of breaking down and creating these peptides in the process, you're getting a high amount of lead or getting some mercury and some of these other, like, noxious metals that shouldn't be in any of the peptide products because they are not purified and regulated.

它是从胃液里提取出来的。

It's derived from, like, gastric juices.

我知道。

I know.

这到底是什么意思？

What does that actually mean?

我知道。

I know.

那这到底是什么东西？

What is it?

我们可以这样理解：肽是蛋白质的组成部分，而胃液是一种酸性液体，里面也含有一些蛋白质的分子结构。

So, if we think about peptides are, are parts of proteins, and gastric juice is an acid, and it also has a, a molecular structure of some proteins in it.

所以，不知出于什么原因，有人觉得提取这东西特别棒。

So, for some reason, someone decided that was a really good thing to extract.

它之所以存在于胃液中，是因为如果你肠道或胃壁出现渗漏，你肯定不希望那些酸性物质跑出来损伤身体。

And the reason why it's in gastric juice is because if you have some kind of intestinal leakage or stomach leakage, you don't want that acid getting out and causing damage into the body.

所以一旦它跑到了不该去的地方，它就起到保护作用了。

So if it does get out of its normal place, then it's protective.

所以他们就把这些提取出来，心想：嘿，你看，这东西有保护作用呢。

So they're extracted because they're like, hey, look, it's protective.

但到目前为止，还没有在任何真正的人体研究中进行过验证。

But it hasn't been done in any kind of real human studies.

显然，它们的监管程度远没有达到我们期望的标准。

Obviously, they are not regulated to the way that we need them to be.

我猜并不是所有产品都这样。

I assume that they're not all like that.

确实有一部分是这样的。

Some are like that.

这得看是哪家厂商生产的。

Depends on the manufacturer.

根本无从得知。

It's impossible to know.

对。

Yes.

我在想，很多国家都已经禁用了这类物质，世界反兴奋剂机构也把它们列为了禁用物质，因为效果没得到证实，而且风险远大于收益。

So, I look at it as like they're banned in a lot of other countries, And they're on the WADA list as a banned substance as well because the efficacy isn't there and the risk to benefit ratio leans into the risk is greater than the benefit.

我们的研究还远远不够，没法支撑起那些宣传。

I mean, we just don't have the research yet to support the marketing behind it.

这并不意味着将来不会出现。

It doesn't mean it's not coming.

我的意思是，现在我宁愿让别人先去尝试，当他们的实验对象，等有更多证据出来再说。

It just means that right now, I'm going to let other people biohack and see what happens until we get, they can be their own lab rat, until we get more evidence.

我会继续建议大家去探索其他替代方案，该做的都做，同时也可以考虑利用热疗，比如通过冷水浸泡来实现可控的低温，或者通过可控的高温暴露来引发高温反应。

And I'm going to keep pushing people to look at other alternatives, like do all the things, but then let's also look at using heat, heat exposure, like controlled hypothermia from cool water exposure and hyperthermia from controlled heat exposure.

因为这两者会引发一系列有益的生理反应。

Because those two things create a cascade of responses that are beneficial.

我们观察到抗炎反应更明显。

We see greater anti inflammatory responses.

热休克蛋白的生成增加了，这意味着你体内那些细小的细胞碎片会被重新回收利用，起到保护作用。

We see, increase in heat shock protein production, which means that all your extra little cellular bits are going to be re purposed and picked up so it's protective.

在受控的高温环境下，卵巢功能会略有提升。

We see a slight increase in ovarian function and controlled hyperthermia.

无论是冷水浸泡还是桑拿，内分泌功能都会得到改善。

We see better, endocrine function in both cool water and sauna exposure.

所以，我会建议人们先尝试这些方法，再考虑打任何针剂。

So those are the things that I would push people to do first before trying to do any kind of injection.

肽，比如来自化学和生物化学领域的，其实就是短链的氨基酸。

Peptides like from, you know, like chemistry and biochemistry are just short chains of amino acids.

所以，人们用‘肽’这个词，是不是泛指各种不同的物质？

So are people using this general term peptide to mean a variety of different things?

因为我老听见人说‘肽、肽’，但那其实是个泛称。

Because I keep hearing people say, Peptides, Peptides, but that's just a generic term.

我们到底在说些什么呢？

What are we actually talking about?

不同的分子结构。

The different molecular structures.

比如TB 500是一组特定的氨基酸，而BP 157则是另一组。

So you have TB 500, which is a certain set of amino acid, and then you have BP 157, which is another set.

所以它们就是一些被分离出来的短链，用来模拟体内原本的功能，只不过通过注射直接注入，想让效果更明显。

Okay, so they're literally short chains that are being isolated to perform the function that they may naturally perform in the body, but it's a way to sort of, you know, try and accentuate their impact by injecting them directly.

这听着也太不靠谱了吧。

That just doesn't sound like a real thing.

是啊，我懂。

I know.

你不觉得这挺奇怪的吗？

Isn't it strange?

这就好比，我们知道胃酸泄漏出来是有效的，但要是把它注射进身体里，效果还一样吗？

It's like, we know that this works if the stomach acid leaks out, but if you're gonna inject that into the body, is it gonna do the same thing?

对，我也不太清楚。

Yeah, I don't know.

感觉我们得请个科学家来评估一下

It feels like we needed a scientist to weigh

再下结论

in before

大家就开始这么做了。

people just started doing this.

明白。

Know.

我知道。

I know.

我想聊聊桑拿和冷水浴的好处，还有具体的使用方法。

I want to get to saunas and cold plunges, the benefits, the protocols.

不过首先，你之前提到了微量营养素缺乏的问题。

But first, you mentioned micronutrient deficiency earlier.

大家会有这方面的风险吗？

Are people at risk of that?

我们是不是该多吃点多样化的食物？

Should we be just eating more variety?

微量营养素缺乏到底有什么危害？

What is the risk of micronutrient deficiency?

对，

Yeah,

所以当我们观察人们限制饮食的各种方式，以及食物来源的普遍性时，会发现这种情况相当普遍。尤其是在美国，超加工食品到处都是。如果你去西夫韦超市，你会觉得整个商店里都是你本该吃的东西，但你却一口都不能吃，对吧？

so it is pretty widespread when we're looking at the different ways that people are restricting food, but also the generalization of what food is available, especially in The US with ultra processed foods and all the things that go with, if you go to Safeway, you're like, it's a whole store full of stuff that I'm supposed to eat, but I can't eat any of it, right?

如果我们看看微量营养素缺乏的问题，大多数人首先想到的是铁，但我们也会看到铜、硒等微量元素的缺乏，这些元素对胶原蛋白及其生成非常重要。

So if we look at micronutrient deficiency, most people think about iron, but we also see copper, selenium, trace elements that go with that, that are very important for things like collagen and collagen development.

我们还发现一些脂溶性维生素的含量在下降，因为人们虽然吃了很多脂肪，但这些脂肪并非来自天然来源，比如牛油果那样的天然食物。

And we are seeing a decrease in some of our fat soluble vitamins because people are eating a lot of fat, but it's from, not a natural source, so they're not like an avocado.

是的，这些脂肪溶性维生素确实存在，因为里面含有脂肪，而且它们是协同作用的。

Yeah, you have fat soluble vitamins in there because there's fat in there, and that they work together synergistically.

但这跟蛋糕可不是一回事。

But that's not the same thing as a cake.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

对吧？

Right?

当人们开始关注微量营养素缺乏时，通常是因为他们听说过，或者感觉身体不舒服，于是就想去做一堆检测。

So when people start thinking about micronutrient deficiencies, it's because they've heard it or they feel awful and so they want to go get all these panels of tests done.

这确实是个越来越突出的问题。

And it's definitely a real thing coming up.

我们发现，很多胶原蛋白和肌腱问题，尤其是接近40岁的女性，往往是因为缺铜。

And we see that a lot of the collagen and tendon dysfunction that's starting to occur, especially in women who are approaching 40, it is a lack of copper.

那问题来了，我到底需要多少铜呢？

And it's like, okay, how much copper do I need?

多吃点种类丰富的食物，特别是绿叶蔬菜之类的。

Just eat a wide variety of foods, especially our leafy greens and things like that.

因为只要我们一般每周吃够三十种植物，每顿饭都有蛋白质和纤维，这些微量营养素就基本不会缺了。

Because if we are aiming, in general for 30 different plants a week and having protein and fiber at every meal, you're gonna cover those micronutrients.

你刚说是每周三十种不同的植物？

Did you say 30 different plants a week?

是的，听起来很难，但其实没那么复杂。

Yeah, it sounds hard, but it's not.

因为你得算上香草、香料，还有常见的坚果、种子、发芽谷物、水果和蔬菜。

Because you're thinking about our herbs, our spices, plus the typical nuts, seeds, sprouted grains, fruits, veg.

说到底，人们出现这些微量营养素缺乏，往往是因为吃太多不是天然形态的食物，这么想就对了。

But basically what you get these kind of micronutrient deficiencies is when people are eating a lot of foods not in their natural state, I think, is a way to kind of think about it.

也就是说，那些过度加工或者高度加工的食品——我知道，有个大型食品组织，背后还有政府资助，刚出来说根本不存在‘超加工食品’这回事。

Meaning, over processed or highly processed foods, which I know, like, the some large, food organization that's, you know, funded by the government came out and was like, there's no such thing as ultra processed.

一切都好。

Everything's fine.

但如果你吃的那种食物跟自然生长的东西几乎没什么关系，那肯定不行。偶尔吃一次没问题，但这样可没法提供你所需的各种营养。

But if you eat a food that has very little semblance to something that actually grows naturally, that's gonna have and you can do it once in a while, but that's not gonna give you all of these things.

说实话，要是你问我有没有在补铜，我还真不知道。

Like, honestly, if you had asked me if I'm eating copper, I don't know.

不过后来才知道，铜主要存在于绿叶蔬菜里。

But apparently, it's in leafy greens.

而且，绿叶蔬菜似乎能解决几乎所有问题。

Also, leafy greens seems to be the answer to just about everything.

可不是嘛。

Isn't it?

还有螺旋藻。

And spirulina.

你试过蓝绿藻吗？哦，试过。

Have you tried blue green or blue Oh, yeah.

是的。

Yes.

所有东西，没错。

Everything, Yeah.

就是所有东西。

Means everything

如果你用蓝色螺旋藻，它不会有一股青草味，也不会有怪味，而且蛋白质和铁的含量比绿色螺旋藻还高。

If you use the blue spirulina, it doesn't taste grassy, it doesn't smell funny, and it has a higher amount of protein and iron than green spirulina.

如果你在做奶昔的时候加一点，很方便。

And you can put that in smoothies if It you're blending something

会让奶昔变成漂亮的独角兽色。

makes it a beautiful unicorn smoothie.

太棒了。

Love it.

独角兽。

Unicorn.

但另一个问题是，当你观察那些禁食、每天只有很短时间进食的人时，他们根本没法在这么短的时间内吃够身体所需的全部营养。

Well, but the other thing about the micronutrient deficiencies, when you start looking at people who are fasting and they only have a very small window of time to eat, they actually aren't able to consume everything that they need in that small window.

对。

No.

我认识一个女人，她每天只吃两个小时。

I knew a woman who only ate for two hours a day.

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

我当时就问，你这到底什么意思？

And I was like, What do you even mean?

她光吃糖果。

She was eating candy.

她说，想吃什么就吃什么。

She's like, Whatever I want.

我就说，这样不行啊，根本说不通。

I'm like, That's not You're not It doesn't make sense.

不对。

No.

真是这样。

Story.

是的。

Yeah.

她确实在减重，我就说，对啊，因为你没吃东西。

She was losing weight, though, and I said, Yeah, because you're not eating.

因为你饿着呢。

Because you're starving.

如果你觉得自己可能缺乏营养，或者饮食不够多样，当然，天然食物才是最好的来源，但有没有必要考虑补充微量矿物质呢？

If you may think that you have a nutrient deficiency or you're not getting that variety, obviously nothing replaces getting it from natural foods, but should someone be considering a trace mineral supplement?

或者再加上一种复合维生素？

Or that and a multivitamin?

好像这方面的说法挺不一致的。

Like, there seems to be mixed reviews.

所以先去检查一下再说。

So get tested first to see.

然后我们尽量通过饮食来解决，因为如果靠补充剂，效果通常微乎其微。

And then we try to do it through food, because if you're looking at the supplementation type thing, there tends to be almost no effect.

比如铁元素，如果你每隔一天正确服用，身体确实能吸收，但必须精准控制，因为铁摄入过多，身体会自动上调一种激素，抑制铁的吸收。

Like with iron, yes, if you're doing it right every other day, you can absorb it, but you have to be specific about that because if you have too much iron, then your body up regulates the hormone that is going to prevent iron absorption.

所以一旦开始用补充剂，很容易过量。

So we start looking at when you are using supplementation, it can be too much.

其实我们只需要很小的量，慢慢积累，逐渐达到饱和，但现在的人都太依赖药片了，社会风气就是这样。

So we need just very small amounts to slowly saturate and build up over time, which you But do with people are so pill happy because we are in that society.

动不动就说‘你缺这个，来，吃个补充剂’。

It's like, you need this, here's the supplement.

高剂量补充其实没什么实际效果。

And there's not a lot of, of efficaciousness around taking a high dose.

而且我们发现，复合维生素基本上就是花钱买心理安慰，因为成分吸收率低，大多是廉价原料，还得挤进一个小药片里，彼此之间还互相影响。

We also see that a multivitamin is pretty much just paying out money because it's not readily absorbed, often cheap forms, because they, they have to work together to be in a small tablet.

如果你看一下背面的成分表，上面写着钙和铁一起，那就能看出，做这个配方的人根本不懂行，因为钙和铁会结合在一起，然后被身体排出去。

And if you look at the back one, it says calcium and iron together, then you know that someone who put that formulation together doesn't know what they're doing because calcium and iron bond together and are excreted.

所以，还是尽量通过食物来补充更好。

So it's just better to try to do it through food.

很多天然食物里其实含有非常丰富的营养成分。

And there are really fantastic high, amounts in natural foods.

这超出了现代医学的常规做法，因为医生们压根没学过这些。

It's just kind of outside the scope of what medicine practices because that's not what they're taught.

其实这也不在主流体系的范围内。

Well, it's outside of the scope also.

乔纳森听到我说这些，经常翻白眼，我能理解，归根结底，这跟资本主义体系、阶级、种族和性别都有关系。

I mean, Jonathan a little bit rolls his eyes at me, and I understand that, like, it all comes down to also, like, a capitalist system and, you know, the class, the, you know, race, class, and gender.

全球大约有二十亿人存在微量营养素缺乏的问题。

Like, it comes down to, like, we're talking two billion people worldwide approximately have micronutrient deficiency.

至于症状嘛，如果你是女性，从35岁开始一直到生命结束，你几乎会经历所有这些症状。

Like, this is and and the symptoms, in case you're wondering, are everything you have if you are a human woman in particular between the ages of 35 and dead.

疲劳、免疫力下降、注意力不集中、脑子发懵，还容易得其他病——其实很多人都在不知不觉中缺乏微量营养素。

Fatigue, lowered immunity, having cognitive issues, brain fog, at risk for other diseases, that's like literally everyone may be walking around, right, with micronutrient deficiency.

这是个全球性的问题。

This is a global problem.

我们现在正处在一个很多人吃得多却营养不良的时代，西方世界热量过剩，但这些多余的热量根本没带来人群健康水平的提升。

And we are now in time in history where there are so many people that are overfed and undernourished, and in the discrepancy of calorie availability, so many calories available in the Western world, and they're not actually doing anything to improve population health.

还有那个所谓的‘让美国重新健康起来’的运动。

And also, have, you know, this whole movement of Make America Healthy Again.

说实话，我从这儿讲起来当然轻松，但这件事真没那么难，对吧？

Like, it's actually not that I mean, I know it's easy for me to say from here, but, like, it shouldn't be that difficult, you know?

这些本来都是基本需求，比如我们给孩子们在学校吃的东西，难道不值得想想吗？

These are some basic needs that, you know, even the notion of what we feed kids in schools, right?

我记得当年学校搞‘无肉星期一’，有人简直要炸了。

I mean, I remember when people lost their ever loving minds about Meatless Mondays in schools, right?

你怎么能不给孩子吃那种奇怪的热狗或汉堡呢？

How can you not feed a child that weird hot dog or hamburger?

我倒是挺喜欢汉堡日的。

I did like burger days.

我们小学的时候，每周四就是汉堡日。

It was Thursdays at my elementary school.

我们真的很喜欢那天的饭。

We love did love it.

没错，就是这样。

We That's right.

但我想说的是，我们其实也能为那些没人替他们发声的人群做点什么，对吧？

But I'm saying, like, you know, there are things that also we can do for populations also that have no one speaking for them, right?

从更大的层面来讲，大家可能都对此不屑一顾。

To be able to say on a larger level He's rolling his eyes.

我反而对‘吃得太饱却营养不良’这句话印象很深。

No, I'm stuck on overfed and undernourished.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yep.

我们一直在消费，不停地消费。

We're just consuming, consuming.

我们吃的东西全都是用喷过阻燃剂的塑料容器装着的。

We're eating everything out of plastic containers that have been sprayed with fire retardant.

可我们还纳闷儿，为啥总是饿，还总觉得不舒服。

And we're wondering why we're hungry and don't feel well.

这种现象其实也适用于我们的心理状态。

You could apply that also to our psychological state.

我们被各种标签和框框塞得满满的，社交媒体还不断告诉你，这个人是自恋狂，你被激怒了。

We are overfed with labels and boxes to put ourselves in and social media telling you that this one's a narcissist and you're getting triggered.

但真正的问题是，我们到底有哪些生活方式的改变，能实实在在改善自己的情绪呢？

But in terms of, like, the nourishment we actually have about what are the lifestyle changes we can make that can impact our mood.

对吧？

Right?

每天放下手机八个小时，看看一两周后你的生活会有什么变化。

Get off your phone for eight hours a day and watch, you know, how many changes happen over the course of a week or a month.

给大家一个挑战。

Here's a challenge for everyone.

这周你在家做了几顿饭？

How many meals did you cook at home this week?

哦，确实。

Oh, yeah.

我做的那几顿。

Oh, of mine.

真不错。

Congratulations.

这真的很了不起，对吧？

That's amazing, right?

因为我最近在出差。

Because I'm traveling.

大家都说，

Everybody's like,

她住在新西兰。

She lives in New Zealand.

那儿没商店，她住在山里。

There's no stores, she's in the mountains.

她一个人在荒郊野外。

She's out in the middle of the Wap Waps.

连个能降落的地方都没有。

There's no I place to fly

我理解，但我总会想到我脑子里那位理论上的女性，她现在也在工作，对吧？

appreciate that, but I always kind of come to the, you know, the assistance of the theoretical woman in my head who is not only now working, right?

自从二战以来，越来越多的女性进入职场，但很多时候，当女性成为家庭主要经济支柱时，她们还要独自承担大部分育儿和家务负担。

Since World War II, more and more women are in the workforce, but in many cases, when women are the primary breadwinner for their family, they are also bearing the brunt of childcare and of care around the house.

所以这里头有太多因素了，女性其实特别累，却得不到足够的支持。

So there's so many other factors here that, like, women are are are overworked, you know, under supported.

对很多人来说，尤其是单身女性、离异女性或者丧偶女性，她们最头疼的恐怕就是如何在照顾家里所有人的同时，还能搞定一顿健康的家常饭。

And for many people, especially if you are a single woman, a divorced woman, a widowed woman, the last thing on your mind is being able to figure out how to cook a healthy meal at home while managing all of the humans.

我是说，我见过我妈妈这么做。

It's, you know, I mean, I saw my mom do it.

你知道的，她上班的时候，还得每天给我们做三顿饭。

You know, when she was working, she was also still cooking three meals a day for all of us.

真不容易。

Hard.

我觉得他们管这个叫隐形女性综合征，就是那些没人付钱的额外负担。

And I think they call it the invisible woman syndrome, where the extra load that's not paid.

这确实很难。

And it is hard.

当你想着一天要做那么多事，结果发现自己连照顾好自己都勉强，那还怎么做饭呢？

And when you're thinking about having to do all of the things in a day, and then it's like, okay, I can barely take care of myself, how am I going to cook?

而且，说真的，你可以用 HelloFresh 或者 Blue Apron 这种生鲜配送服务，虽然挺方便的，但价格不便宜。

And, I mean, you go back to the whole, you get your HelloFresh or your Blue Apron delivery, which is kind of helpful, but it's expensive.

那我们该怎么消除食物荒漠呢？

So how are we going to get rid of food deserts?

我们该怎么改善这种情况？

How are we going to improve?

因为在新西兰，我们总是在家做饭，是因为外出吃饭实在太贵了。

Because in New Zealand, the reason why we cook at home all the time, it's really expensive to go out.

一份塔可就要二十美元。

Like, you're paying $20 for a taco.

根本负担不起。

It's like, just not feasible.

但那塔可好吃吗？

But is it a good taco?

不好吃。

No.

开玩笑的。

I'm kidding.

我想再聊聊男女在健身和健康方面的那些差异。

I do wanna get back to some of these kind of more fitness and, you know, kind of health related differences between men and women.

我真的很惊讶，尤其是在耗氧量这方面。

I was really surprised, you know, in terms of oxygen use, right?

每当我想象自己该达到什么状态，或者想成为什么样的人，看到杂志封面那些女性，我就觉得特别有压力。

And, you know, for me, in my head, when I think about where I wish I was or where I'd like to be, I feel very intimidated by, like, lady on the cover.

你懂我的意思吧？

Do you know what I mean?

你看，当我看到最大耗氧量的图表时，我就想，怪不得我没法像男人那样做那些事。

Like, like, this sort of intimidates me because I feel like when I look at the chart, right, of maximum, like, oxygen capacity, I'm like, Yeah, that's why I cannot do what men do.

毕竟从统计上来说，男女的身体构造和生理机能本来就不一样。

Because statistically speaking, generally speaking, our bodies are different, our physiology is different.

但我觉得，我们文化里有个挺吓人的地方——明明大力推崇‘坚强的女性’，说这很美、很有力量，可反而让人觉得怎么都达不到标准，因为大家拿来当榜样的那些女性，其实都远在正常曲线之外。

But I think one of the scary things in our culture, especially when we have this fantastic emphasis on strong women and how that's beautiful and that's powerful, it sometimes can make us feel like we're still not meeting the expectation because many of the women that we're supposed to compare ourselves to are outside, I think, of the middle of that bell curve.

举个例子，你说得出一个女运动员的名字吗？

Meaning, it's like, oh, like name a female athlete.

你知道的，加比·里斯。

Know, Gabby Reese.

我觉得她年轻时候特别火，你知道吧。

I think that was like a popular person, you know, when I was young.

对吧。

Right?

她那时候简直出现在所有杂志封面上。

And it was like, she was on the cover of everything.

我当时就觉得，这怎么可能。

And I was like, there's no way.

我又不是六英尺高。

I'm not six feet tall.

我也没那个体能。

I don't have that capacity.

你在给女性提建议的时候，怎么平衡这一点呢？我们既不需要变成男人那样，也不必非得像那些靠惊人基因或奥运水平才接近男性体能的女性一样。

How do you sort of balance that when you're, you know, making suggestions for women so that we can also feel like we don't need to be like men, but we also don't need to be like those women who are closer to men in terms of their physiological capacity because of amazing genetics, or they're Olympians.

对。

Right.

我一直特别关注VO2 max这个指标，尤其是在运动领域。

And I am really, I've been following the VO2 max thing in the, in the sphere of things.

作为运动科学家和研究者，我就在想，他们为啥要把这个指标拿出来当标准？

And as a sports scientist and a research scientist, I'm like, why are they putting that metric out there?

因为男女之间在最大摄氧量上确实有差异，但女性利用氧气的方式根本不一样。

Because there is a discrepancy, only of maximum oxygen carrying capacity for women versus men, but the way women use oxygen.

我们其实能以更高的强度坚持更久，可所有标准却都拿男人当参照。

Because we can work at a higher workload for a longer period of time as compared to men, but all the metrics are being compared to men.

所以当你在看这些数据时，别被那些绝对数值带偏了。

So when we're looking at what does that mean, it's like, don't think about those absolute numbers.

我们真正希望女性关注的是：做到你觉得喘不过气、肌肉明显在燃烧的那个程度。

What we want women to do is work at a point where they feel like, oh my gosh, I'm breathing really hard and I can feel my muscles.

Stacy，我们现在就是这个状态。

We're there right now, Stacy.

我正在努力呢。

I'm in it.

明白了。

Okay.

我现在已经到极限了。

I think I'm at maximum capacity right now.

然后你恢复一下，把手放下来，再往上做。

And then you recover and bring your hands down and then you go back up.

关键是把自己推到常态之外。

It's about pushing yourself outside of the norm.

现在市面上所有的课程，其实都缺乏这种两极分化。

So if we think about all the classes and stuff that are out there, they're never really polarizing.

它们从不建议女性拼尽全力后充分恢复，因为这跟我们从小被灌输的理念不一样——总觉得得练得大汗淋漓、筋疲力尽才算有效。

They're not telling women to go as hard as you can and then really recover because then that doesn't fall into how we grew up of you wanna get a really hard, sweaty session and come out feeling smashed.

其实，做完有氧运动后，你并不该是那种被彻底打垮的感觉。

That's actually not what you wanna do when you come out of cardio session.

你应该是感到兴奋又疲惫，因为你拼尽了全力，但同时也得到了充分的恢复。

You wanna feel elated and tired because you push yourself really hard, but you had the opportunity to recover.

这样你才有可能再次全力冲刺。

So that possibly push yourself really hard again.

重点不在于持续多久，而在于质量。

And it's not about how long it is, but it's about the quality.

就是在很短的时间内，把你逼出舒适区。

So it's a very short period of time where you're pushing yourself way out of your comfort zone.

如果你平时只是散步，遇到坡道时，就稍微加快一点速度冲上去。

So if you usually go for a walk and you go by a hill, push your pace a little bit up the hill.

让自己喘不过气来。

Get out of breath.

真正地给自己加点劲。

Start to really push yourself a little bit.

我觉得女性从来都没人鼓励过要再拼那么一点点。

Because I don't think women have ever been encouraged to just push a little bit more.