E62 Self-care for busy people: Productivity demands recovery

然后你就觉得，自我照顾根本没用，因为一点效果都没看到。

And then you think, well, self care is not helpful because I didn't get anywhere.

对。

Right.

但实际上，这其实是一种误解。

But it's really categorized

你其实做的是对的。

You're doing the right thing.

对。

Right.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

好吧。

Alright.

有没有哪类人特别容易在这方面遇到困难？

Are there certain types of people Mhmm.

或者哪些性格的人更容易受这个问题困扰？

Or personalities that really struggle with this more than others?

我觉得年轻父母普遍都挺难的，因为他们总觉得花时间照顾自己，就是从孩子身上偷走的时间，这种内疚感特别难摆脱。

I feel like young parents in general struggle with this, and it comes back to that guilt of any time that they're investing in themselves is time away from their children, and there's a guilt that's really hard for them to get over.

我亲身经历过，所以完全能理解这种感受。

And I've lived that, so I completely appreciate that.

还有就是那些时间管理不太好的人，也会觉得特别吃力。

I think other people who are just not efficient with their time, it can they can struggle.

对吧？

Right?

他们整天陷在各种琐事里，忙得团团转，根本抽不出时间来真正为自己做点什么。

They're spending all of their time in their in basket and managing these sorts of things that they feel like they can never dig out to create that time.

所以我觉得这也是个不小的挑战。

So I think that can be a challenge.

还有那些特别有事业心的人，就像我们之前说的，总觉得自己得一直忙工作上的事，总在追求下一个职业目标，我反而觉得他们可能根本想不到自我照顾这回事，因为那时候这根本不是他们的优先项。

And then I think, you know, really those high driving individuals who, like we talked about, are always feeling that they need to be working on something career related, and they're always looking for that next sort of milestone in their career, you know, I I I wonder if they have a hard time identifying self care just because, again, maybe that's not their priority in that moment.

当然，对他们来说，事业确实是最重要的，但我见过不少人就是这样，不懂得给自己留点余地，结果到了职业生涯的某个阶段，

And, again, that's their priority, but I I've seen individuals like that, you know, not pace themselves, and then they get to a certain point of their career.

要么彻底崩溃了，要么突然意识到，自己除了工作，根本没什么亲密关系，也没什么真正让自己开心的事可以依靠。

And, you know, they just either they burn out or they feel like I haven't I don't have those relationships and those other things to, you know, to fall back on that really bring me joy.

是的。

Mhmm.

这几点说得真到位。

That's a that's a great list.

我还认为，那些从事服务行业的人——比如老师、护士、牙医，甚至修车师傅这类职业，整天都在照顾别人，

And and I've also seen, I think, in people who their their job or profession has them in any sort of service industry or giving, you know?

你总在为别人付出，时间久了就会觉得自己不配休息，不配享受。

So if if you're somebody whose primary role is to take care of others, teachers, nurses, dentists, anybody, mechanics, whatever, if if you're providing service to others, oftentimes you get so focused on others, you think that you're not worthy.

所以那些以服务他人为主要职责的人，

So I think those that are predominantly service oriented Mhmm.

还有那些自我价值感比较低的人。

And also folks who may struggle with self worth as as well.

确实如此。

That's true.

自我照顾会不会过头？

Can self care be overdone?

也就是说，好东西会不会太多反而不好？

So can we can we get too much of a of a good thing?

我完全觉得这有可能。

Oh, I I absolutely think that's possible.

如果自我照顾影响了你完成本职工作中的日常任务，或者让你忽略了家人朋友的关系，因为你把太多时间花在一些孤立的活动上，脱离了生活中真正该有的日常责任，那这就成问题了。

You know, again, if it is getting in the way of you getting done your daily work related tasks that are are part of your job description or job expectations or you're neglecting your relationships either in your family, friends, because you're spending so much time doing some isolated activity that takes you away from those things that really, you know, are your, again, day to day kind of expectations and requirement, that can be a bad thing.

所以我觉得，关键是要有自省的能力，问问自己：这有没有影响我完成该做的事？

So I think having a, the insight to be able to say, is this impacting my ability to get things done?

同时也要保持开放的心态，听听身边人怎么说，比如他们提醒你：喂……

And then also having an openness, you know, by and from those people around you, if they say, hey.

我觉得吧，你花在这上面的时间确实不少。

I think, you know, you're spending a lot of time on this.

如果不是真觉得对你有负面影响，他们大概也不会这么说。

They're probably not saying that unless they really see how it's perhaps negatively impacting.

所以我觉得自我照顾也是会过头的，关键是要做个盘点。

So I think it can be overdone and that's just, you know, inventorying.

我有没有把答应过、接下的事情都做完？

Am I getting done what I have agreed and taken on?

如果没有，那问题出在哪儿？需要怎么调整？

And if not, where do I need to reset things?

也许是因为你手头的事情太多了，才导致这样。

And maybe it's because your plate is too full and that's why.

也可能只是你得重新平衡一下。

And maybe it's because you need to readjust there.

说不定你并不是自我照顾太多，而是接了太多别的事。

Maybe you're not doing too much self care, but you've taken on too many other things.

你想想这个，对吧。

As you think about this Mhmm.

在你的生活中，有没有什么模型或者框架，能帮我们理清自我照顾都包括哪些方面？

In your life, do you have kind of a model or framework that can kinda help us understand what are the components of self care?

具体有哪些领域和事情是你需要关注的？

What are the different areas and things that I need to be thinking about?

是的。

Yeah.

我以前在不同场合讲这个话题的时候，都会用一个比喻和一张图来说明。

So when I've when I've spoken on on this topic in various settings, I I I put up this analogy and and this visual that people should think about.

你知道的。

You know?

想想你的餐盘。

Think about your dinner plate.

我们每个人的餐盘都不一样，大小不同、深浅不同，所以没法互相比较。

You know, your dinner plate every one of us has a different plate, different size, different depth, and so we can't compare across.

我没法看着你的盘子说，你上面的东西比我多得多。

I can't look at your plate and say, you have so much more on your plate.

那为什么我就不行呢？

How come I can't handle that?

每个人的盘子都不一样，所以别掉进跟别人比较的陷阱里。

So we all have differing plates, so not not to be victim to that comparison trap.

这个盘子装的，其实就是你工作和家庭交给你的那些责任。

But that plate is really what is required of you for your work responsibilities and your family responsibilities.

某种程度上，你可以掌控这个盘子装多少东西。

And so you can control in a way how full that plate is.

对吧？

Right?

你在工作中答应了哪些本该拒绝的事情？

How many things you're saying additionally yes to at work that maybe you should have said no to.

这个盘子一旦装得太满，你再一味答应，东西迟早会掉下来——要么你做的事质量下滑，要么工作和家庭总得牺牲一样。

And that that plate is eventually gonna get high enough or full enough that if you keep saying yes, things will either, you know, fall off that plate, meaning the quality of what you're doing is gonna suffer or, you know, given both work and family exist on that plate, something is gonna be sacrificed.

所以每天你都得学会管理好这些。

So that's what you need to be able to manage every day.

然后还有水杯。

Then there's the water glass.

我经常看一些生存类的节目。

You know, I watch a lot of survival type of shows.

人要是二十四小时不喝水，根本撑不住。

You can't exist, you know, after twenty four hours without water.

这些都是基本需求。

Essentials.

没有这些，你连饭桌上那些事都根本没法应付。

These are the things that without them, you can't even come close to even addressing the things that are on that dinner plate.

每个人水杯里的东西可能都不一样。

So these things in the water glass may be different for each one of us.

对吧？

Right?

对很多人来说，是和家人在一起的时间。

For many people, it will be time with family.

是照顾好自己的健康和坚持锻炼。

It will be taking care of their health, their exercise.

对有些人来说，是信仰。

For some people, it's faith.

这些才是让人能应对日常期望和责任的关键。

These are the things that are going to equip them to manage, you know, the day to day sort of expectations and responsibilities.

所以我觉得自我关怀就属于这个水杯里的内容，因为如果没有它，真的很难应付那些日常琐事。

And so I think that's where self care fits into that water glass because again, without it, it's gonna be really hard to manage those day to day things.

之前我提到过甜点盘。

And then earlier I mentioned the dessert plate.

甜点盘呢，谁都想要。

Again, the dessert plate, we'd all love it.

甜点确实很棒。

Dessert is amazing.

我们当然希望每顿饭都有。

We'd love it at every meal.

但如果吃太多，就会影响我们处理其他事情的能力。

But if we have too much of it, it's gonna impact, again, how we can address the things on our plate.

在我看来，社交媒体这类东西就像甜点，它们确实能带来瞬间的愉悦，却无法持久。

So the dessert plate in my mind are, you know, the social media platforms of you know, they can give you the like you said, that euphoria in a quick sense, but not a sustainability.

电视、刷手机，这些都属于这一类。

This is where TV watching all of these things.

并不是说它们不好，但你得学会控制，否则其他两样东西就会被打乱。

Again, not that they're bad, but you have to be able to modulate them because without it, the other two things are going to be disrupted.

所以我一直这么看待这个问题。

So that's always sort of the position that I think about.

每当我有机会，就会看看自己盘子里还剩多少空间。

As I have an opportunity, I look what's on my plate.

这件事能放进我的盘子里吗？

Can this fit on my plate?

如果不行，那我得先放下什么，才能腾出空间来做这件事？

And if not, what needs to move off my plate before I can do that?

如果我这么做，那杯水会怎么样？

If I do this, you know, what's gonna happen with that water glass?

我的水杯是不是快空了？因为我忙于这么多事，根本没时间顾及自己。

Is my water glass getting empty because I haven't had the time because of everything I've taken on Mhmm.

去照顾好自己，去做那些对我最重要的事。

To be able to address self care and the things that are most important to me.

我觉得这个框架挺有帮助的，它把事情分成三类，帮你判断哪些该放下，哪些该提上来，哪里需要再找找平衡。

So I think that can help with a framework that it keeps your keeps things in three different buckets to be able to figure out which one needs to go down, which one needs to come up, where do I need to find some additional balance.

这主意真好。

Oh, that's great.

我喜欢这个比喻。

I I like that analogy.

你讲得特别到位，希望每个人都能有共鸣。

And I think you're you're you've said that very well, and hopefully that'll hit home for everybody.

我喜欢你把甜点盘也加进去，这说明你并不是要人把所有这些都彻底放弃。

I like that you added the dessert plate in there because you're telling people, you don't have to eliminate all of this stuff.

没关系的。

It's okay.

只要带着觉知去做就行。

Just do it with intention.

适度就好。

Do it with moderation.

也要清楚什么最适合你自己。

And also know what works for you.

你爱吃的甜点，可能和我不一样，这完全没问题。

You know, the dessert you like may be a little different than the one that I like, and that's okay.

这没什么不对的。

There's nothing wrong with that.

明白了。

Okay.

没错。

Absolutely.

那按照这个框架，我该怎么开始呢？

So now using that framework, how do I know where to start?

假设我以前根本没想过这些问题。

So let's say I'm somebody who's really never thought about this at all.

我是从零开始的。

I'm starting from scratch.

对。

Mhmm.

我该从哪儿入手？

Where do I go?

第一步该做什么？

What's step number one?

你得先弄清楚，对你来说，生活中哪些是真正重要的大事？

You first have to identify, you know, what for you are those really important high priorities in your life?

而且，这没什么对错之分，每个人的优先事项可能都不一样。

And, again, there's no judgment, but we all may have those priorities may be different.

你懂的。

You know?

对很多人来说，家庭肯定是首要的，还有自己的健康和生活状态，这类事情都很重要。

For many people, it's gonna be their family, you know, and hopefully their own health and wellness, all those sorts of things.

关键是要先理清楚：你的优先事项到底是什么？然后确保你有相应的安排，去保护、应对和维持这些关系和目标。

But those are I think that inventory of what what are your priorities and making sure that you have something in place to protect and address and preserve, those relationships, those priorities.

接下来，你可以想想，自己目前承担了哪些任务和责任？

I think then you think about what, again, what are all of the tasks and responsibilities that you have taken on?

有些事，比如家庭，你没法选择或改变，它就是你生活的一部分。

Some some it's not like you can necessarily you know, your family is your family.

对吧？

Right?

所以

So

这个可躲不掉。

Can't get out of that one.

你有这些期望和责任。

You have those expectations and responsibilities.

我觉得更多是那些你额外加给家庭的活动，或者工作中不属于你本职的部分。

I think it's more so in the activities that you add on for your family or the activities that you add on on work that are not necessarily part of your true I don't wanna say job description.

对吧？

Right?

有人找你：‘嘿，要不要写这本书的一章？’

There are those, Hey, write, you wanna write this book chapter?

‘嘿，要不要再做个演讲？’

Hey, do you wanna give this additional talk?

这些额外的邀约，你得在心里有个明确的取舍标准，来判断哪些该接、哪些该推，才能保持平衡。

All those extra things that, again, you just have to have a way to have a yes, no sort of algorithm in your head of how you're going to weigh those opportunities that come your way to make sure that you maintain that balance.

所以我觉得，这两点是最值得你先着手的。

So I think those are the two areas that I would get started.

然后，只要你觉得不会打乱那种重要的平衡，就可以适当加上这些额外的事情。

And then again, you can add in those extra things as you feel like it's not disrupting that balance that's really important.

一旦你找到了平衡，就可以大胆尝试新东西，但要明白，每增加一项，可能就得放弃或放下另一项。

And then once you have found that balance, you can certainly experiment, try some new things, but knowing that anything else you add, something else may need to either come off or or give way.

也许这样也没关系。

And maybe that's okay.

也许你现在的职业阶段正好有更多灵活性，或者你可以更果断地拒绝一些事，因为有年轻教员正渴望承担这些责任。

Maybe you're at a point in time in your career where you have that additional flexibility, or you can start to say no to more things because there's junior faculty that are eager for those responsibilities.

这样一来，你就腾出了空间去做其他事情。

And so that's a great way to to open up some space to do other things.

对。

Mhmm.

我觉得最后这点很重要，因为有时候自我照顾，其实是增加那些对你自己有益的事。

And I think that's an important point at the end because sometimes self care is adding the things you need to do to take care of yourself.

但很多时候，自我照顾也意味着减少那些对你有害的事情。

But oftentimes, it is subtracting the things you're doing that are detrimental as well.

实际上，很多时候，做减法比做加法更有效，对吧。

So and in reality, oftentimes, subtraction is much more powerful than the addition Right.

因为这样一来，我们反而能腾出时间来。

Because it then we actually get some time back.

没错。

Right.

我们去掉的是那些偷走快乐和生命力的东西，这真的能带来巨大的改变。

And we're removing something that's stealing our our joy and our flourishing, which I think can be really, really powerful.

我接着说一点。

Well, maybe just to piggyback on that.

当我们快到职业生涯尾声、准备退休的时候，如果之前没在人际关系和工作之外的爱好上投入，那将来靠什么支撑自己呢？

What's important as we think about as we get towards the end of our careers and in the retirement phase, you know, if we haven't made these self care investments of relationships and activities that we enjoy outside of work, what's going to sustain us in those later years.

对吧？

Right?

所以，别一上来就把这些关系和爱好当成可以牺牲的东西。你越早投入，越早培养，这些关系和兴趣到六十五岁以后，甚至更久，才会真正回报你，让你有力量继续走下去。

So those developing those relationships and not having those be the things that you peel off or sacrifice early on, those things will pay, you know, pay it forward later on when you've developed and invested in others, invested in those relationship, invested in those hobbies that you really enjoy that will sustain you beyond, you know, age 65, etcetera.

对。

Mhmm.

对你自己来说，作为一个特别忙、事情堆成山的人，你发现哪些方法在自我照顾方面最有效？

Can you tell us for for yourself, somebody who's super, super busy and got a lot going on, what are some of the things you have found Mhmm.

哪些做法对你最管用？

That have been the most effective in your self care?

对。

Mhmm.

你平时没什么空闲时间。

You're somebody who doesn't have a lot of spare time.

对。

Mhmm.

但你还是找到了应对的方法。

But you have found ways to manage this.

那具体是哪些方式对你有效呢？

So what types of things work for you?

我觉得最重要的是把事情安排进日程里。

I think the most important thing is just scheduling in my schedule.

虽然不总是这么有条理，但一年中有些特定时段特别关键。

And and it's not always structured like that, but there's certain times of the year.

比如再过几周，我就要和女儿一起开始下一阶段的马拉松训练了。

For example, you know, starting in a few weeks, I'm gonna start my next marathon training cycle with my daughter.

如果没时间，可能就得早上五点起来跑步。

And if I don't have time at, you know, it might be five in the morning scheduled to do my daily runs.

但有时候一天被晚上的活动和其他事情塞满了，跑步也就没法进行。

They may not happen because the day sometimes gets filled with evening activities and other things.

所以我觉得，如果你真把某件事当回事，安排进日程很重要，但也要留点弹性，随时抓住当下出现的机会。

So I think scheduling things in is, is really important if they're a priority for you, but also being open to the in the moment sort of opportunities as well.

要是哪周特别忙，实在挤不出时间，我就会保持灵活，一旦有空档，马上抓住机会做点自我照顾的事——不管是跑步、看书，还是和同事喝杯咖啡，这些小事都特别重要。

So if I have a a busy week where, gosh, it's I'm finding a hard time to schedule it in, I will just make sure that I have that adaptability when if I find a moment of time where I can take advantage of something to do some small amount of self care, having those things at the ready, whether it's running, whether it's reading, whether it's grabbing coffee with a colleague, some of those things are are really important.

我想提两点。

Two things I wanna call out.

你提到你和女儿一起跑马拉松，我知道跑步本来就是你自我照顾的一部分。

One of the things you mentioned is that you're running a marathon and you're doing it with your daughter too, which I think you're you're already the running is, I know, a thing for you that's part of your self care.

但和你真正喜欢、愿意投入的人一起跑，这就不仅是锻炼了，

But then doing it with somebody who you actually enjoy and want to pour into, I think, is because now now you're getting the exercise you want.

它同时帮你实现了自我照顾，还建立了真实的情感连接。和别人一起做这件事，我觉得特别有力量，却常常被忽视。

It's helping with your self care and forming that genuine social connection, which I so doing it with others, I think, is incredibly powerful and often overlooked.

我们之前也聊过内疚感的问题。

And I think, you know, we talked early on about the guilt.

回想早些年孩子还小的时候，我出去跑步总会觉得愧疚，觉得抛下他们不管。

And, you know, I think about the earlier years when my kids were younger, and I would go out on a run and feel guilty that I'm I'm neglecting them.

那时候我把三个小孩留给丈夫一个人照看。

You know, I'm leaving them with my husband to manage these three small kids.

但现在女儿长大了，上了大学，反而主动想跟我一起跑、一起参加比赛，这让我回过头来看，那些我离开家去跑步的日子，并没有对她造成负面影响。

But now seeing as my daughter has gotten older and she's in college and, you know, wants to run more with me and wants to do races with me, it it has allowed me to look back to say, well, those runs that I had away from the house obviously hasn't negatively impact her.

是的。

Mhmm.

也许这让她意识到，自己在事业发展中也能兼顾这些，而不必非得放弃。

Perhaps maybe it's inspired her of how she can incorporate those things in her career going on and not have to sacrifice those.

我觉得这帮助我摆脱了早年职业生涯中那种过度的内疚感。

So I think that has been helpful to remove that guilt that I probably had in excess at a earlier phase of my career.

孩子们一直在看着呢。

These kids are always watching.

他们确实一直在看着。

They're always watching.

而且

And

这其实也回到你之前提到的，在工作中也是这样。

this gets back earlier, which you mentioned even at work Mhmm.

当你照顾好自己时，也会激励别人去这么做。

How when you take care of yourself, you can inspire others to do it.

在家里，对孩子也是如此。

That happens at home with with your children.

对吧？

Right?

他们肯定会注意到的。

They're they're gonna notice that.

我想从你刚才的回答里再提一点，你说你并不总能有大块的时间。

Another thing I wanna pull out of your last answer was you talked about you don't always have these huge chunks of time.

你不可能一下子腾出四个小时，去做什么特别奢侈的事情。

You know, you're not gonna get a, you know, a four hour block where you can, you know, go do something extravagant.

所以有时候，真正能让你恢复精力的，反而是这些小小的举动。

So sometimes it comes down to these tiny little things that can be really restorative.

没错。

Right.

最近很多人都在说‘运动小点心’。

And recently, a lot of people have talked about exercise snacks.

对。

Mhmm.

如果你没时间去健身房，哪怕只花五分钟、两分钟活动一下身体，让心跳加快，也会很有帮助。

How if you don't have time to get to the gym, you can do five minutes, two minutes, whatever can be really helpful just to move your body, get your heart rate up, etcetera.

我很喜欢‘自我关怀小憩’这个说法。

I like the term self care snacks.

根据你刚才说的，有时候你只需要一分钟、两分钟，只要从电脑屏幕上移开视线，闭上眼睛，深呼吸几次，就够了。

Now, you know, based on what you said, sometimes all you need is just a minute, two minutes, just look away from the computer monitor, close your eyes, take some deep breaths, whatever.

但有时候，只要花两到三分钟，效果可能就会特别好。

But sometimes just doing two to three minutes probably can be really helpful.

完全没错。

Absolutely.

对。

Yeah.

当孩子还小的时候，我们都经历过那段日子——当个‘专车家长’，天天开车送他们到处参加各种活动。

When my kids were at that age where, you know, you're we all have that phase where we're, you know, the Uber parent, meaning Uber, we're driving them everywhere to all of their activities.

那时候总在想，我到底什么时候才能有自己的时间来做点自我照顾的事？

And, again, feeling like, when can I have my time to do self care?

我坐在棒球比赛或田径赛的看台上。

I'm sitting at baseball games or track meets.

所以我总在车后座备好一些东西，方便随时来点自我照顾的小放松。

And so I would just have the back of my car equipped with, you know, things so I could get that self care snack.

对吧？

Right?

我会穿上跑鞋，在棒球场周围跑上一会儿，练多久就看训练什么时候结束。

I'd throw on some running shoes and run around the baseball, you know, fields for whatever length of time until practice was over.

抓住这些零碎机会，提前做好准备，我觉得特别有用。

So looking for those opportunities and being prepared for them, I think, is really helpful.

除了自我照顾，睡眠、运动、营养这些因素在整体健康中扮演什么角色呢？

In in addition to self care, what what role do sleep, movement, nutrition, and all all of those sort of things play in sort of a foundation?

我们经常谈到，人类表现的各个支柱其实是相互交织、彼此影响的。

Because we talk a lot on here about how all of these different pillars of human performance really overlap with one another.

这又是一个很好的例子。

And I think this is another example.

你怎么看？

What are what are your thoughts?

说实话，这一点对别人来说可能显而易见，但我直到最近才真正明白。

I think, to be honest, that has been where it's probably so obvious to everyone else.

过去五年左右，这件事对我而言是最有启发的。

But I think in the last, you know, five years or so, this has been the most enlightening for me.

我突然有了一种顿悟，要是早几年就能明白就好了。

And it's almost like I had this moment, which I wish I would have had many years ago.

谁不是呢？

Don't we all?

那是我开始为人生第一场马拉松训练的时候，正好快五十岁了。

But I I I think it was when I started training for my first marathon and I was turning 50.

当时我心想，既然我工作和社交生活这么忙，经常出差，那就得格外注意——年纪大了，更容易受伤。

And I thought in order to do this with all of the chaos I have going on in my professional and society life traveling a lot, I realized that, you know, as we get older, we're more injury prone.

所以我看了很多资料，意识到必须保证充足睡眠，才能降低受伤的风险。

And so just doing a lot of reading, thinking I need to get adequate sleep so that I'm less likely to injure.

如果我精疲力尽，第二天根本没法爬起来跑长跑。

And I I'm not gonna be able to get up and do a long run the next day if I'm on fumes.

还有饮食，过去我们常常一整天靠喝咖啡撑着，这其实不太健康，对吧？

And also how nutrition you know, many times we've gone through our days in the past of fueling on coffee all day, which is probably not healthy.

对。

Right?

这样根本没法让我发挥出最佳状态。

That's not gonna allow me to perform my best.

所以，这正是我越来越被这种生活方式吸引的原因——不管训练到什么程度，它都让我更自律，早早睡觉。

So that has become, I think, what has attracted me so much to this sort of lifestyle of continuing what whatever level of training it is, because it has made me much more disciplined about going to bed early.

我每天晚上九点半前就上床，因为第二天得早起。

I'm in bed by 09:30 every night because I have to get up early the next day.

我现在特别在意，一整天到底给身体摄入了什么。

It makes me very mindful about what have what have I filled my body with for the day.

这些东西会不会对第二天的发挥有帮助？

And is it anything that's gonna be helpful for next day's performance?

我早年根本没怎么想过这些事，但现在亲眼看到、亲身体会到它们的影响后，我每天上班的精力比十年前没重视这些的时候充沛多了。

I don't think I really thought about those things early on, but now that I see and feel the impacts of those, I mean, I just come to work far more energized than I did even ten years ago when those things were not top of mind.

现在跟我早年职业生涯相比，睡眠已经完全从可有可无变成了重中之重。

So now it has totally changed from my earlier career where sleep was an afterthought.

对我而言，睡眠现在是头等大事，因为我每天都明显感觉到自己比过去更有活力。

Now for me, sleep is a priority because I see how much more I'm coming to work with every day than I did in the past.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Great.

我觉得我们真该把自己看成一个整体，方方面面都要兼顾。

I I think we really need to think of ourselves in this sort of holistic, well rounded picture.

哪怕你只追求成就和表现，只要睡得好、动得勤、吃得健康、照顾好自己，表现一定会更好。

And even if your goal is just achievement and performance, you're gonna do better if you're sleeping, if you're moving, if you're eating good food and taking care of yourself.

不管你的目标是什么，这些东西都是最根本的基础。

So really all of this is found no matter what your goals are, all of these things are foundational.

你的思维会更清晰，我觉得。

You're just cognitively sharper, I think.

不只是身体更灵活，你的心态也会更敏锐，这些方面都照顾到了。

It's not just physically, you know, more apt, but you're just cognitively sharper with those things

是的。

Yeah.

都得到了重视。

Having been attended to.

明白了。

Okay.

我最后再问你一个问题。

Last question here for you.

有时候可以故意忽视自我照顾吗？

Is it ever okay to intentionally neglect self care?

我们之前聊过，生活中总有些特别忙、特别难熬的阶段。

We talked about this earlier where we have some busy times in our lives and some of just more challenging.

有时候能不能直接说，算了吧？

Is it ever okay to just say, you know what?

现在我真的不想管这些了。

Right now, I'm just not going there.

实在做不了。

Can't do it.

我就是不做了。

Won't do it.

这个问题真挺难回答的。

That's a really tricky question.

我觉得关键看你打算这样持续多久，就是暂时放下自我照顾。

I think it depends on the length of time you're looking for that, you know, turning away from self care.

就像你说的，人有时候出差一星期，平时那些自我照顾的事儿确实很难坚持。

Like you said, I you know, people may have a busy week of travel, and it may be more challenging to do the things that they have routinely done for their self care.

所以我觉得，如果是短时间的暂停，只要心里清楚这阶段有尽头就行，比如我这三天特别忙，或者接下来两周都在出差。

So I think if you have a short pause, as long as there's an end to that period of time where you can say, gosh, I have three really busy days or I have two weeks of busy travel.

我得稍微放松一点了。

I'm gonna have to dial things down a little bit.

但我知道，等这段时间过去，我还会回到原来的节奏。

But knowing at the end of that, I'm gonna get back to the structure.

只要你还有点自律，能控制住局面，别让这种暂停演变成全面放弃自我照顾的恶性循环。

And as long as you have somewhat of the discipline to be able to do that and not get on this path that then becomes a spiral where you're neglecting self care all around.

所以你得留个心眼，一旦开始忽视它，后面就更容易越放越松，慢慢丢掉那些你好不容易培养起来的好习惯。

So I think you just have to be careful with that because once you start to neglect it, I think it's easier then to to neglect it more and more and to get away from healthy habits that maybe you started to develop.

你这么说我很认同。

I like how you said that.

所以如果真得忙，那就先适当减压吧。

So maybe dial it down Mhmm.

实在没办法的话，也只能这样了。

If you have to.

没错。

Right.

但只在一段特定的时间内这样放松。

But hope it only for a defined period of time.

没错。

Right.

可以适当放松，但别完全放弃。

And I would say dial it down, but don't turn it off.

说得对。

Correct.

不妨在日常中找些小方式，给自己一点自我照顾的喘息空间。

So even find ways to do those little self care snacks along the way.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

人们都在面对生活，生活不容易，充满挑战，意外也随时可能发生。

People are dealing life is hard and life is challenging and tragedy strikes.

有时候你会忍不住想，天哪。

And there are times where you think, oh my goodness.

我得照顾我亲人，他正经历着这么糟糕的事，不管是什么情况。

I have to take care of my loved one who's got this awful thing or whatever.

你可以这么做，但还是要记得，给自己设定一个时间段，之后就要重新找回状态，因为如果你自己垮了，就没办法好好照顾他们了，这一点至关重要。

Like, you can do that, but still, you know, find ways to say, okay, I'm gonna do this for a period of time, and then I'm gonna help get myself back on track because I won't be the best caregiver to them in the rest of the world unless I Absolutely.

太好了。

Wonderful.

好的。

Okay.

我刚才一边聊一边做了些笔记，想花点时间把它们梳理一下，可以吗？

So I've been taking notes here as we've been talking, and I'd love to take a minute to kind of run through those if I can.

然后我就把最后的话权交给你。

And then I'll give you the last word.

我们一开始谈到了你对自我关怀的定义，我很喜欢。

So we started off with your definition of self care, which I love.

它包含两个方面。

It has two parts.

这是对我们自己的投资，好让我们能以最好的状态去面对他人。

It's an investment in ourselves so that we can bring our best selves to others.

我觉得很多人忽略了这个定义的后半部分——用最好的自己去影响别人。

And I think that's one of the big problems that people miss the second half of that definition, bringing our best selves to others.

我也很喜欢你说的，我们应该把最好的自己交给世界，而不是把剩下的东西塞给别人。

And I also like what you said that we should give the world what is best of you, not what is left of you.

所以我们真得努力把自己调整到最佳状态，这样才能给世界提供高质量的东西。

So we really need to try to make ourselves as good as we can So what we're giving to the world is high quality.

自我照顾是一场长期的投资。

Self care is a long term investment.

它不是一时的放松，也不是为了短暂的舒适。

It's not a quick hit or a quick comfort seeking.

如果不重视自我照顾，后果包括更容易倦怠、参与度下降、效率降低、关系变差，以及表现下滑。

Some of the downsides of not investing in your self care, higher rates of burnout, lower engagement, lower productivity, poor relationships, and decreased performance.

对。

Mhmm.

我们之前提到，有时候人们很容易说，我还行，勉强应付着，或者撑着吧。

And we talked about sometimes it's tempting to say, I'm doing okay or I'm getting by or I'm hanging in there.

但你得问问自己，你真的只想这样过日子吗？还是你想要更多？

But then you have to ask yourself, is that really what you want, or do you want more out of life, than that?

你还提到一点，别人会模仿你的良好行为。

You also mentioned the point that people will emulate your good behavior.

只要你好好照顾自己，别人都会看在眼里。

So if you take care of yourself, others will see that.

你的表现自然会提升。

Your performance is gonna go up.

他们会留意你怎么做，然后也就有底气照着做了。

They're gonna watch what you're doing, and then that gives them permission to do the same.

他们的表现也会跟着提高。

Their performance will go up.

这不仅适用于同事，也适用于家里的孩子。

That goes for coworkers and your children at home.

没错。

That's right.

关于自我照顾，有些人误以为一这么做就会被人评判。

Some common misconceptions around self care are that people will judge you if you do it.

你可能觉得必须得大张旗鼓地做才行，或者做起来会内疚，甚至觉得得先赚够了才有资格好好照顾自己。

You think it has to be some huge massive effort or you feel guilty for doing it or you think that you have to earn your self care.

我们还常常以为低能量的活动就等于恢复，其实并不一定如此。

And then we also often think that things that are low energy equal recovery, which is not always the case.

大家都难免有这些问题，但尤其容易受影响的是年轻父母、时间管理不善的人、自我价值感低的人，以及从事服务性职业的人。

We all struggle with this, but some people who are particularly at risk are young parents who are at risk for a lot of different things, people who are inefficient with their time, those who have low self worth, or those who are in service oriented careers.

你在第三部分提到的‘餐盘’模型特别好，把生活中各种事务比作盘子里的东西，而水杯代表基本需求，甜点盘代表让你开心的事。

You gave us a great framework in the third section where you talked about the plate, all the things we have on our plate, but also the essentials in our water cup, the fun stuff we have in our dessert plate.

所以要仔细想想，每个人的‘餐盘’都不一样，这完全没问题。

So be very thoughtful, and everybody's plate can look very differently, and that and that's okay.

最后你还给了些实用建议，教我们怎么在特别忙的时候也能做到这些。

And then you gave some great tips at the end on how you do this if you're super busy.

把它安排进你的日程里。

So add it into your schedule.

把它记到日历上。

Put it put it on your calendar.

和别人一起做，这样还能建立真实的社交连接。

Do it with others so you get some genuine social connection.

这等于一举两得。

That's sort of a two for one deal.

在你一天中最有掌控感的时候，优先安排这些事。

Put priorities in your day when you have the most control over your day.

你得灵活应对，因为事情总会变。

You have to be adaptable because things change.

对。

Mhmm.

我们之前聊过，可以做些小规模的自我关怀。

We talked about doing little micro snacks of self care.

别忘了，很多时候关键在于做减法。

And remember, it's often about subtraction.

并不是非得不断往里加东西。

So it's not always adding new things in.

有时候，删掉一些东西反而更好。

Sometimes it's taking away things.

这其实特别有帮助。

That can be really helpful.

最后一点，这完全是个人化的，我觉得这既是好事也是坏事。

And then lastly, it is highly personalized, which I think is good news and bad news.

坏消息是，没有一种放之四海而皆准的方法。

The bad news is there is no one right way to do it.

每个人的情况都不一样。

It's different for everybody.

但好消息是，你不用非得跟着别人的做法走。

But the good news is you don't have to do what everybody else is doing.

你要找到适合自己的方式。

You figure out what works for you.

弄清楚什么让你充满能量，这样你才能把这份能量传递给别人。

Make sure you know what's filling your cup up so then you can go, fill up the cups of others.

那艾米，最后一个话题就交给你了。

So, Amy, I'll leave it to you for the last one.

你觉得今天我们的讨论中最重要的一点是什么？

So what's the most important thing you want people to take away from our discussion today?

我觉得最重要的一点，就像我们之前说的，第一，照顾自己不是自私。

I think the most important thing, like we mentioned, number one, self care is not selfish.

第二，这是对你未来状态的投资。

And number two, it's an investment in their future state.

所以，希望大家能记住这两点：你不需要靠努力去赢得自我照顾的权利。

So I think thinking about those two things and that they they don't have to earn self care.

你完全有资格去投资自己的身心健康，这一点非常重要。

They they really deserve an investing in their own self care is really important.

好的。

Okay.

我们每期节目结束时，都会给大家一个挑战或行动建议。

So we always like to end every episode with a challenge or a call to action.

这次呢，我觉得可以结合我们之前提到的那些自我关怀的类别来思考。

And so in this one, I think it's helpful to think about it in those different categories of self care that we listed.

我们谈过五个类别：身体、心理、情绪、人际关系和精神层面。

So we talked about physical, mental, emotional, relational, and spiritual being the five categories.

为了帮你更好地完成这个挑战，我来举一些具体的例子，作为给听众的参考。

In order to help you with this challenge, I'm gonna list off some examples in each of those that can be potential targets for our audience.

每个类别里，我都会给你一些可选的建议。

So So for each of those categories, I'm gonna give you options.

每类你可以选择新增三项，或者去掉三项。

Three things you could potentially add or three things you could potentially eliminate.

我们先过一遍这些例子，最后的挑战就是：选一个你最想关注的类别，然后决定其中一项要增加，或者要取消。

So we'll run through this list, and then our challenge at the end is gonna be for you to pick one of these five categories that you wanna focus on, and then pick one thing that you want to either add or eliminate.

别想一下子全做完。

Don't try to do it all at once.

这些例子是想帮你打开思路，你也可以自己想想别的。

But here are some options to get you thinking, and you can also come up with things on your own.

在身体护理方面，有三件事你可以试着加上。

In the physical self care category, three potential things you could add.

饭后散个十分钟的步，或者安排好定期的体检、牙科检查和视力检查。

Take a ten minute walk after meals, or schedule routine, medical, dental, or eye care.

第三，提前准备一份健康的小吃或正餐。

The third, prep one healthy snack or meal option.

好了。

Alright.

再来看三件你可以去掉的事。

Now three things you could eliminate.

别再熬夜刷手机了，那会偷走你的睡眠。

Stop late night scrolling that steals your sleep.

第二，减少喝含糖过多的饮料或酒精。

Number two, stop drinking excessive sugary drinks or alcohol.

第三，别只囤一堆高度加工的零食。

Number three, stop keeping only ultra processed snacks available.

好的。

Alright.

接下来是心理方面的自我照顾。

Now for mental self care.

有三件事你可以考虑加上。

Three things you could consider adding.

第一，每天写下你最重要的三件事。

Number one, write down your top three priorities for the day.

第二，关闭不必要的手机通知。

Number two, turn off nonessential phone notifications.

第三，给自己设定一个看新闻的界限。

Number three, set boundaries around news consumption.

有三件事你可以考虑去掉。

Three potential things you could eliminate.

第一，别一醒来就忙着回邮件或刷社交媒体。

Number one, stop beginning your day by reacting to email or social media.

第二，别总想靠脑子记所有事。

Number two, stop trying to remember everything mentally.

不如写下来。

Instead, write it down.

或者第三，别一下子把整个人生的未来都反复琢磨。

Or number three, stop overthinking your entire future all at once.

在情绪自我照顾方面，有三件事你可以试着加上。

Now in the emotional self care category, three potential things you could add.

第一，每天花一到两分钟做深呼吸。

Number one, practice slow breathing for one to two minutes every day.

第二，问问自己：这种情绪到底想告诉我什么？

Number two, ask yourself, what is this emotion trying to tell me?

所以别当法官，当个科学家吧。

So don't be a judge, be a scientist.

第三，每天庆祝一个小成就。

Number three, celebrate one small win each day.

好的。

Alright.

三个你可以去掉的习惯。

Three potential things you could eliminate.

第一，别假装自己没事，其实心里并不好受。

Number one, stop pretending you're fine when you're really not.

第二，别因为有正常的情绪就责怪自己。

Number two, stop judging yourself for having normal emotions.

第三，别只盯着那些出错的事情。

Number three, stop only noticing the things that went wrong.

接下来是人际关系方面的自我关怀。

Now for relational self care.

你可以考虑增加的三件事。

Three things you could consider adding.

第一，今天给某人发一条鼓励的消息。

Number one, send one encouraging text to somebody today.

第二，多和那些让你充满活力、又能激励你的人相处。

Number two, spend time with people who energize and challenge you.

第三，为生活中那些有毒的或长期消极的互动和人设定界限。

Number three, set boundaries with toxic or chronically negative interactions and people in your life.

好的。

Alright.

你可以考虑去掉的三件事。

Three potential things you could remove.

别心不在焉地半听半不听。

Stop half listening while distracted.

第二，别答应太多，免得让别人失望。

Number two, stop over committing so that you don't disappoint others.

第三，别总是让对话停留在表面。

And number three, stop keeping all of your conversations at surface level.

最后，关于精神上的自我照顾。

And lastly, for spiritual self care.

有三件事你可以考虑加上。

Three things you could consider adding.

第一，每天花五分钟祈祷、冥想，或者静静反思。

Number one, spend five minutes in prayer, meditation, or quiet reflection each day.

第二，帮助别人，但别指望得到任何回报。

Number two, serve somebody else without expecting any recognition in return.

第三，为自己安排一种类似安息日的规律休息节奏。

Number three, create a Sabbath like rhythm of scheduled rest for yourself.

有三件事你可以考虑去掉。

Three potential things you could eliminate.

第一，别再匆匆忙忙过日子，从不停下来。

Number one, stop rushing through life without ever pausing.

第二，别把你的福气当成理所当然。

Number two, stop taking your blessings for granted.

第三，别想一个人独自完成灵性的成长。

And then number three, stop trying to grow spiritually completely on your own.

和朋友一起做。

Do it with friends.

和社群一起做。

Do it with community.

所以，这五个方面各有你可以增加或减少的事情。

So there's a list of potential things you can add or potential things you can eliminate across the five categories.

我们给你的挑战是：从这五个方面中选一个，然后在那个类别里，只选一件你想增加的，或者想减少的事。

Our challenge for you to remember is going to be pick one of those five categories, and then in that category, just choose one of the things you want to add or one thing you want to eliminate.

别搞得太复杂。

Keep it simple.

从小事开始。

Start small.

等你做到了这一点，之后再慢慢加别的。

And then once you nail that, you can add on afterwards.

没错。

That's right.

艾米，非常感谢你。

Amy, thank you so much

来参加我们的节目。

for joining us.

谢谢你们邀请我。

Thank you for having me.

如果你喜欢这期节目，欢迎分享给朋友，并在你的播客应用里给我们留个评价。

If you like this episode, please share it with a friend and leave us a review on your podcast app.

这能帮助更多人找到我们的节目。

It really helps others find the show.

有意见、问题，或者想听的主题吗？

Got feedback, a question, or a topic idea?

欢迎发送邮件至 optimizemayo dot edu，或拨打 (507) 538-6272 留言给我们。

Email us at optimizemayo dot edu, or leave us a voicemail at (507) 538-6272.

你的声音说不定会被我们用在节目里。

We might even feature your voice on the show.

想了解更多关于人类优化的节目和资源，请访问 ce.mayo.edu/optimize。

For more Human Optimization episodes and resources, check us out online at ce.mayo.edu/optimize.

记住，长久的健康始于你今天培养的习惯。

Remember, long term well-being starts with the habits you build today.

有意识地生活，出色地表现。

Live intentionally, perform exceptionally.

我是医生。

I'm Doctor.

克里斯托弗·坎普。

Christopher Camp.

感谢收听。

Thanks for listening.

本播客仅用于信息参考，不能作为医疗或法律建议使用。

This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as medical or legal advice.

有任何健康问题，请务必咨询合格的医疗专业人员。

Always consult with a qualified healthcare provider for any medical questions.

嘉宾的出现并不代表我们对其本人、所属机构或其代表的任何组织予以认可。

The appearance of any guest does not imply an endorsement of them, their employer, or any entity they represent.

节目中表达的观点和意见属于发言者个人，不一定反映梅奥诊所的立场。

The views and opinions are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Mayo Clinic.

提及任何产品、服务或机构，并不构成梅奥诊所的推荐或背书。

Reference to any product, service, or entity does not constitute an endorsement of or recommendation by Mayo Clinic.