比特币正在接受考验……但这些山寨币可能表现更佳

我记得最后一次大概是72、74美元左右。

I think the last one was about 72, $74 or something like that.

所以我们现在又接近那个价格了。

So we are getting to the close to that price again.

但我觉得我不会买，因为我觉得Lighter是更好的产品。

But I think I'm not gonna gonna buy because I simply think that lighter is a better product.

而且我觉得如果Perps要赢的话，Lighter的位置更好，虽然它的代币可能没有Hype那么吸引人，但从产品角度来看，我更看好Lighter。

And I think if perks are about to win, I think lighter is in better position even though the token might not be, you know, as interesting as hype, but more bullish on lighter product wise.

有意思。

Interesting.

我也同意这一点。

I agree with that too.

Lighter确实有一些不同之处，比如它的手续费更低。

There there are some differentiators about, like, lighter's lower fees.

他们有ZK技术。

They've got the ZK technology.

技术。

Technology.

他们还有以太坊对齐和以太坊基础。

They've got their Ethereum aligned and Ethereum base.

比如，这个产品有一些我觉得挺吸引人的地方。

Like, there's there's some things about the product that I think are attractive.

另外，对我来说，永续合约最终就是一场分销大战。

The other thing too is, like, to me, perps just comes down to a distribution war.

就是你能让多少人接触到你的产品。

Like, how many people can you get your product in front of?

而Leiter在这方面有一个差异化的策略，我觉得会在某些方面给他们带来优势。

And Leiter has, like, a differentiated strategy for that that I think is gonna advantage them in certain ways.

比如，Robinhood就是一个例子。

Like, Robinhood is just one example of that.

但是一旦他们获得CFTC的批准和所需的明确性，他们正在积极推动这件事，他们在华盛顿花了很多时间。

But once they get the CFTC approval and clarity that they need, which they're actively working on, they're spending a lot of time in Washington.

一旦他们拿到这个，我觉得他们会吸引更多的人。

Once they get that, I think that they're gonna see a lot more people.

我在节目上采访了Trevor King，他说他们会有更多的合作伙伴。

You know, I I interviewed Trevor King on the show, and he said they're gonna have a lot more dance partners.

所以我觉得这对Lighter来说是一个非常有力的论点，就是和很多不同的伙伴合作，获得巨大的分销渠道，而这正是永续合约领域要赢的关键。

So I think that that's, like, a really strong thesis on lighter, just getting getting integrations with a lot of of different partners and getting a huge amount of distribution, and that is kind of the the contest to win on perps, I think.

你现在能在Lighter上交易很多不同的股票吗？

Can you do, like, a ton of different stocks on lighter yet?

还是说……

Or what's the...

他们有哪些资产？

Like, what sort of assets do they have?

这取决于你的……

It depends on what yours

能不能……

can if.

哦，是的。

Oh, yes.

约翰在纽约，所以你那边可能没法访问。

John is in New York, so you might not have access to it.

我什么都做不了。

I can't do anything.

就是……

It's...

纽约这个“人民共和国”不让我参与大多数这些事情。

The People's Republic Of New York doesn't allow me to participate in most of these things.

但是……

But...

那太糟糕了，兄弟。

That sucks, man.

嗯，我觉得他们大概有，比如说，50只股票吧。

Well, I think they have, like, maybe, let's say, 50 stocks.

所以是最受欢迎的那些。

So, you know, the most popular ones.

但比如说韩国的那些，你也可以买三星或者SK海力士。

But for example, the Korean ones, so you can buy Skyhunnings or Samsung as well.

但是谁把它代币化的？

But who's tokenized it?

是它自己做的，还是用了像Securitize这样的平台？

Was it was it lighter itself, or do they use, like, securitize or something?

比如说是先做的。

Like It's first.

所以不是像那样，对。

So it's not like Yeah.

代币化。

Tokenized.

没有现货。

There's no spot.

好的。

Okay.

明白了。

Gotcha.

好的。

Okay.

你想聊聊代币化产品吗？

Do you wanna talk about tokenized products?

我们当然可以聊代币化。

We can absolutely talk about tokenized.

因为我……

Because I...

我问这个的原因很明显，我们获得了美国证券交易委员会的创新豁免。

The reason I was asking is, you know, obviously, we had the innovation exemption from the SEC.

所以有一些特定的规则或指引，你可以……

And so there's, like, a certain rules or instructions that you can...

如果你用某种方式做代币化，那你就可以在美国做。

If you tokenize a certain way, then you can do it in The US.

纽约共和国那边我不太清楚，但也许，也许那边也可以。

I don't know about in The Republic Of New York, but maybe, maybe you can do it there too.

但我还是觉得这会是DeFi的下一个大催化剂。

But I I think this is still the next big, like, kinda catalyst for DeFi.

我觉得如果我要看加密货币的投资方向，如果是数字资产，比如股票之外的，我更多会看DeFi，而不是像以太坊或者Solana那样的。

I think if I'm looking at where to invest in crypto, if it's if it's a digital asset, like outside of the equities, I'm looking more at DeFi than I am looking at like an Aether or Sol.

因为我就是觉得DeFi这边还有很大的增长空间。

Because I just think that there's so much room to grow from the DeFi side of things.

它们在熊市里被打击得很惨。

I mean, they got pretty crushed in the in the bear market.

而且它们一直没能回到2021年那会儿的高点。

And they haven't really been able to get back to their their highs of of, you know, the twenty twenty one days.

在上一个牛市期间，我觉得真正能推动它的是更多股票和代币化股票的上线，因为我觉得像Aave刚发布了，他们允许你用股票来贷款，这挺酷的，可以用Coinbase的股票。

During the last bull market we had, I think the thing that will do it is the onboarding of more stocks and tokenized stocks, because I think like, you know, Aave just released, you know, they're allowing you to take out loans against your stocks, which is pretty cool against Coinbase stocks.

但我觉得今天或者昨天，他们宣布不再为那个提供激励了。

But I think today or maybe yesterday, they announced they're not doing incentives for that.

所以如果你借出股票，然后用股票做抵押借款，就能赚到额外的年化收益，这挺酷的。

So if you if you, lend out, and borrow against your stocks, then you can earn extra APY, which is pretty cool.

所以我觉得Uniswap，还有Aerodrome和其他去中心化交易所，下一个大的增长点就是随着这些股票越来越多，能够交易股票。

And so I I just think, you know, Uniswap, I think the next big kind of leg up for Uniswap, Aerodrome, other DEXs is the ability to trade stocks as we get more and more of these.

问题是，Coinbase已经看到了巨大的增长。

The problem is is like, you know, Coinbase has seen a ton of growth.

我觉得他们现在的代币化股票交易量已经达到20亿或30亿美元了，但好像只有七到九只股票。

I think they've gotten to, 2,000,000,000 or 3,000,000,000 now in in tokenized stock volume, but it's on, like, I don't they have, like, seven or nine stocks.

就这些。

That's it.

所以一旦他们有了几百只股票，你可以在那里买到任何东西，我觉得那时候我们就会看到大量DeFi平台的交易量大幅增加。

So once they get to hundreds of stocks and you can get anything from there, I think that's when we're gonna see some serious volume, increase across a lot of DeFi.

可能从Coinbase和Robinhood开始，但我觉得这还会继续下去。

Probably starting with Coinbase and and Robinhood, but I think it's gonna continue.

证券化已经疯掉了。

I mean, securitized has gone crazy.

我不知道你们有没有看过那只股票。

I don't know you guys have watched that stock.

波动太大了。

It is so volatile.

简直太疯狂了。

It's wild.

但我觉得你可以看到，无论代币化股票走向哪里，谁在整合它们并在DeFi中使用它们，那都将是除了永续合约之外的下一个大交易。

But I think you can see that, you know, wherever tokenized stocks going, whoever's integrating them, and using them within DeFi, I think that's gonna be the next big trade for for crypto outside of perps.

我确实同意这个观点。

I actually agree with this take.

而且我觉得Coinbase，他们处理这些资产代币化的方式，在产品上是一个很大的差异化优势，因为Robinhood给你的，就像是一个……

And I think that Coinbase, the way that they've gone about tokenizing these assets is a big differentiator product wise because Robinhood is giving you, like, you know, a a a...

是什么呢？

What is it?

就像是一种义务……

Like, an obligation...

所有权义务之类的，但他们的产品实际上是在离岸市场，他们只是卖给你一种衍生品……

Ownership obligation, whatever it is, but they're the products are technically offshore, and they're just, like, selling you, like, a derivative...

就像一个占位符版本。

Like, a placeholder version of it.

Coinbase基本上把所有东西都放在了链上。

Coinbase has got basically everything on chain.

比如，你得到……

Like, you get the...

你是实际受益人。

You're the beneficial owner.

你拥有投票权。

You're the you get the voting rights.

你得到的股权权益，和你在传统金融场所买股票时得到的是一样的。

You get you get, like, equal equity rights you would get if you bought the stock in, you know, a traditional TradFi venue.

所以这算是产品上的一个很大的区别。

And so that's, like, a big differentiator on the product.

然后我觉得Aerodrome会扩张，他们会把Velodrome和Aerodrome整合起来，推出aero，并且把很多这些代币化的产品推向市场。

And then I think Aerodrome is gonna be expanding, and they're gonna be integrating Velodrome and Aerodrome to make aero and bringing a lot of these tokenized products to market.

而且还会有……

And there's gonna be...

我觉得对这些东西的需求会非常大，而且这也是一个区别，就是提供更高质量的产品或者不同版本的产品，我觉得这些会有市场契合度，会得到很多关注和采用。

I think it's just like an enormous amount of demand for these things and a differentiator from, again, just a higher quality product or a different version of a product that I think will have product market fit, get a lot of attention and adoption.

我觉得有趣的是，当你把这些股票代币化，你就为DeFi解锁了非常多的用例，对于那些想持有这些资产的人，同时也想用这些资产做其他事情，获得更多好处和价值的人。

And I think the thing that's interesting about this is that when you tokenize these equities, you unlock so many different use cases for DeFi, for for people who want to hold these assets, but also wanna do other things with them and get more benefit and value from them.

就是有很多东西被解锁和创造出来。

There's just, like, a whole lot of things that are unlocked and created.

我对这对L1的意义持乐观态度，但我同意你的看法。

And I'm I'm bullish on what this means for the l ones, but I do agree with you.

像支持这些的应用程序，比如Uniswap，比如Aerodrome，它们会受益很多，我个人对这两个都非常看好。

Like, the apps that are supporting this, like Uniswap, like Aerodrome, they're gonna benefit a lot, and I'm, you know, personally very bullish on both of these.

所以，是的，这真是一个非常好的布局，而且即使只有几只股票，比如九只左右，它已经开始大规模起飞了。

So, yeah, it's like a really great setup, and it's starting to really, like, really take off in a big way even with just a handful, like like, nine stocks or whatever.

有七只股票。

Have seven stocks.

即使只有这些，它也开始大规模起飞了。

Even with just that, it started to take off in a big way.

所以我……

So I...

我对那里的持续增长非常看好。

I'm really bullish on the the continued growth there.

马丁，你对此怎么看？

Martin, what are you seeing on that?

我同意。

I agree.

我觉得如果你看看银行是怎么赚钱的，主要是人们把钱存在那里，然后银行用你的钱借给机构或其他人，赚取利差，这就是他们赚钱的方式。

I think if you look at banks and how they make money, it's mostly that people just have some money there and, like, the banks are using your money and borrowing it to institutions or other people and the spread, that's how they make money.

你看现在的券商，你持有一些股票，他们会帮你借出这些股票，但他们同样也会把利差留给自己。

If you look at brokers today, you own some stocks and they are lending your stocks on your behalf, but they are kind of keeping the spread as well again.

所以我觉得Coinbase真正能提供的是，嘿，你可以把稳定币放在我们这里，我们会给你非常好的回报，比如说接近联邦基金利率，大概4%左右，这很棒。

So I think what Coinbase can really offer is, hey, you can, you know, hold stablecoins with us, and we are gonna give you, like, very good returns, like, let's say something close to Fed fund rates, so something around 4%, which is awesome.

我觉得现在美国没几家银行能给你4%的利率。

Like, I I guess there's not many US banks that offer you 4% right now.

然后想象一下，你持有特斯拉的股票，你的券商现在为借出特斯拉给那些做空的人，付给你多少钱？

Then imagine that you can own Tesla, and how much is your broker paying you right now for lending Tesla to to some short people who are shorting Tesla?

一分钱都没有。

None.

所以，你可以……

So, like, you know, you can...

突然间，你几乎所有的资产，或者说你的财富，都能以某种形式为你产生收益，因为它正在发挥作用。

All of a sudden, you can get, like, pretty much all of your assets or of your kind of wealth in in some form yielding you something because it's doing the job.

我觉得这将是下一个大的突破。

And I think that's gonna be the next big unlock.

我觉得现在Coinbase还是很难把所有东西整合得很好，让用户用起来很顺畅。

And I I think right now, Coinbase still struggle to kind of put everything together in in a in a very, you know, appealing way and easy for users to experience all that.

但一旦他们搞明白了，这产品会非常棒。

But once they they figure this out, it's gonna be awesome product.

非常棒的产品。

Awesome product.

而且我觉得……

And I think...

我同意这会是下一个大热门。

I agree that it's gonna be the next big thing.

我有个问题想问你们，我一直想不通。

Here's a question for you guys that I simply cannot wrap my head around.

为什么稳定币在过去一年里没有增长？

Why have stablecoins not grown in the last year?

真的，整整一年都没动静，我就是想不明白为什么。

Literally, they have not moved in an entire year, and I just cannot wrap my head around why.

你们对此有什么解释吗？

Do you guys have any explanation of this?

比如，我们……

Like, we're...

我直接给大家看图表吧，给那些在听的人……

I'll just show the chart for those that are listening...

哦，抱歉，是给那些在看的人。

Or sorry, for those that are watching.

我们在2020年10月达到了3030亿，而今天是2026年10月14日，还是3030亿。

We hit, you know, 303,000,000,000 back in October 20, and today, sit at 303,000,000,000, 10/14/2026.

所以一年过去了。

So a year later.

为什么这个数字没变呢？

Why has that not moved?

显然，我们知道当时处于熊市。

Like, obviously, know we were in a bear market.

好的。

Okay.

当然。

Sure.

但是，考虑到现在发生的这一切，我真的觉得不太合理。

But, like, it doesn't really make sense to me with everything going on.

人们迁移到区块链上的动机是什么？

What are the incentives for people to move, on...

到区块链上？

Onto blockchains?

第一，是收益。

One, it's yield.

但现在，你可以从美国国债或十年期债券获得5%的收益，所以人们都在用那个。

But right now, you can get, you know, 5% on US treasuries or ten years bond, so people are using that.

或者第二，你只是需要更自由地转移资金，更快、更便宜地转移。

Or second, you just need to move money more freely, more more, like, faster and cheaply.

但可能，我现在只是用一些现有的服务商，并没有真正去考虑要不要换，不用Wise或者大家现在用的那些。

But that's probably, like, I am just using some providers today, and I'm not really, like, you know, thinking about should I switch and do not use Wise or, you know, whatever people use today.

是的。

Yes.

虽然贵，但还不足以让我有足够的动力去探索区块链。

It's expensive, but it's not kind of making incentives big enough for me to, like, go and explore blockchains.

所以我觉得，像Stripe和那些现在掌控支付的公司，他们最终会做出改变，把数千亿的稳定币带上链，但现在还没发生。

So I think, like, Stripe and, like, all these guys who own the payments today, they will eventually made the move and like they will bring all all like hundreds of billions of stablecoins on chain, but it's not happening yet.

所以问题可能就是，下一个推动千亿美元稳定币上链的催化剂会是什么。

And so like that's probably the question, what is gonna be the next kind of catalyst for next 100,000,000,000 of dollar stablecoins moving on chain.

要么需要有更高的收益。

Either there's needs to be some higher yields.

而且，是的，现在确实能找到一些更高的收益，但那些风险很高，可能不会去做……

And, yes, you can find some higher yields today, but those are very risky and, like, you know, probably not gonna do that...

去做吧。

Do it.

第二，我们真的需要那些已经有用户的现有应用，在后台直接使用区块链……

And second, like, we really need, like, these existing apps with users that are gonna just use blockchains at the...

在后台，这样人们甚至不知道他们在用区块链，同时他们还要和其他替代方案竞争，比如跨境转账或者商户支付。

On the back end so people don't even know that they are using blockchains while they will compete with, you know, other alternatives, how to move money across the boards or just how to use payments for merchants and

我就从企业的角度想，他们应该早就采用这个了，因为用稳定币和电汇相比，省下的钱简直不可思议。

stuff like I just thought from an enterprise standpoint, they would have picked it up and used it by now because the amount of money you save using Stablecoins versus, like, sending wires is unbelievable.

我们多年来一直用稳定币给员工发工资，我简直无法想象回到以前的方式。

We've We've been using stable coins to pay our employees for years and like I could not imagine going back.

比如要发电汇的时候，还得亲自去……

Like when I have to send a wire, actually have to go...

前几天我就得发一笔电汇，因为有时候我们收到的美元太多了，我得把它转到交易所换成稳定币。

Like I had to send a wire the other day because sometimes we get paid too much in dollars that I'm like, I gotta send it to our exchange to get it into stables.

然后我还得去银行转账一大笔钱，真是灾难。

And I had to go into the bank to send a bunch of money and like, what a disaster.

我得去那儿等大概四十分钟，他们还在跟别人聊。

I had to go in there and wait for like forty minutes while they like, we're talking to whoever.

那位女士……

The lady...

我……

I...

其实这已经是第二次了。

It's actually twice now.

我遇到的是同一位女士，她对于怎么把这笔电汇发给Wise感到特别困惑。

I've had the same lady and she's like all confused about how send this wire to Wise.

其实我不得不发给Wise，因为她根本不知道Wise是什么。

It was actually had to send it to Wise because she didn't know what Wise was.

简直一团糟。

Like, it's a disaster.

而且费用高，速度慢，整个过程特别耗时。

And and like the the fees, the speed, like it takes so long.

我就想，企业怎么还没开始用这个呢？

I'm just like, how are enterprises not doing this already?

这真的是一个……

Like it's such an...

更好的资金转移方式。

A way better way to move money.

而且我知道有些公司每个月真的转移数百万、数十亿美元，他们支付了那么多费用，却仍然不转过来，我真搞不懂。

And I know there are companies that literally move millions, billions of dollars every single month and they're paying so much in fees and they still don't move over and I don't get it.

比如，是Circle需要更好地寻找客户，还是Coinbase的问题？

Like, does Circle need to do a better job at finding clients, or is it Coinbase?

我我我真的不明白。

I I I don't understand it.

这是最让人费解的事情，因为我以为稳定币现在应该远远、远远、远远更高。

This is the the most mind boggling thing because I thought stablecoins would be way, way, way higher right now.

加密货币的一个奇怪之处是，你待得越久，账户似乎就越多。

You know, one of the weird things about crypto is that the longer you're in it, the more accounts you seem to end up with.

你在一个地方买入，在另一个地方交易，在别的地方赚取收益，如果你真的需要资金，你最终不得不卖掉你可能本来想保留的东西。

You buy in one place, trade somewhere else, earn yield somewhere else, and if you actually need capital, you end up having to sell something that you probably wanted to keep.

这就是为什么我们Milk Road和Nexo合作。

That's why we at Milk Road are partnering with Nexo.

他们能把所有东西都放在一个账户里。

These guys keep the whole thing under one account.

你可以买卖加密货币，在你已有的资产上赚取利息，甚至可以用你的资本借款，而不必卖掉它。

You can buy, trade crypto, earn interest on what you already hold, and even borrow against your capital without having to sell it.

都在一个地方，都在一个账户里，都在Nexo上。

All in one spot, all in one account, all on Nexo.

所以如果你需要流动性，但不想放弃你的仓位，或者你已经持有加密货币，想用它做更多事情，我觉得Nexo值得你花时间。

So if you need liquidity, but you don't wanna give up your position, or you're already holding crypto and you wanna be able to do more with it, I think Nexo is worth your time.

我们很喜欢和他们合作。

We love working with them.

我觉得你也会喜欢的。

I think you will too.

告诉他们，是Milk Road推荐你来的。

Tell them Milk Road sent you.

我觉得过去这一年，你说我们基本上是横盘。

I think that the last year, you said we've kinda gone sideways.

过去整整一年都是熊市，所以……

The last whole year has been a bear market, so that...

这肯定是其中的一部分原因。

That's gotta be part of it.

我理解你的观点，就是说那些不是加密货币原生用户或者不用它们来交易的人，应该采用稳定币，但我觉得这大概就是我们横盘而不是大幅下跌的原因。

And I understand your point, which is that people who are not crypto native or not using them to trade should be adopting stablecoins, I but think that's probably why we've gone sideways and not gone down a whole bunch.

但我认为随着AI代理开始上线，你会开始看到这种情况越来越多地发生，因为人类会倾向于使用他们习惯的产品，不管这些产品是不是更好。

But I think that you're gonna start seeing that happen more and more as AI agents start to come online because human beings are gonna kinda, leverage the products that they're used to whether or not they're better.

他们会很大程度上坚持自己习惯的东西。

They're gonna kinda, like, stick a lot with what they're used to.

但我确实认为AI代理，当它们上线后，会开始成为稳定币的巨大采用者，而那就是我认为你会开始看到这种转变发生的地方。

But I do think AI agents, as they come online, are gonna start being huge adopters of stablecoins, and that's where I think you're gonna start to see that transition happen.

一旦人们开始让他们的代理替他们处理事情，代理们就会开始意识到，嘿。

And once people start letting their agents handle things for them, agents are gonna start realizing, hey.

如果我们这样做，会更好。

This would be better if we did this.

我们切换到这些系统吧。

Let's switch over to these systems.

而且，我觉得这将成为稳定币进一步普及的重要推动力，而且我认为这正在到来。

And, like, I think that's gonna be a big catalyst for additional adoption of stablecoins, and I think that is coming.

这很快就会大规模发生。

That's starting to happen in a big way soon.

你们有没有已经让你们的代理去支付什么东西，或者管理你们的钱？

Have you guys already let your agents to, like, you know, pay for something or, like, manage your your money somehow?

我有，但我只是拍了张信用卡的照片，然后给了我的Grock机器人，然后

I have, but I I just took a picture of my credit card and gave it to my Grock bot and

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

帮我买了很多东西，而且非常顺畅，也很容易。

Buying a bunch of things for me, and it's super smooth and it's easy.

所以我也说不准。

And and so I don't know.

不过对我来说，这样用着挺好的。

That that works that works great for me.

所以……

So...

但我也同意，总有一天，智能体会改用稳定币。

But I I mean, I do agree at some point, agents are gonna use stablecoins instead.

不过我也不确定。

But I don't know.

目前用信用卡完全没问题。

The credit card thing works completely fine for now.

我觉得压力应该来自商家，因为是他们承担那些高额手续费。

I think the pressure needs to come from merchants because those are the ones that are paying those huge fees.

比如你付100美元，商家只能拿到其中一部分。

So if you pay $100, the the merchant only gets certain portion of those money.

所以，像Visa或Mastercard，他们会抽成，然后……

So, like, the Visa or Mastercard, they take a cut and, like, the...

所以商家需要施加更多压力，推动转向这些更好的替代方案。

So there needs to be more pressure from merchants to kind of move to these better alternatives.

我觉得不一定是消费者来推动。

I don't think it'll be the consumers necessarily.

你们最看好什么？

What are you guys what are you guys most bullish on?

你们看好什么？

What are you what are you what are you bullish on?

稳定币还是……但什么……

Stablecoins or or stablecoins, but what...

我们现在要进入牛市了。

We're going into a bull market here.

你觉得什么会表现得好？

What do you think is gonna perform well?

你觉得呢……

What do you think...

比如，你更关注Coinbase和Robinhood吗？

Like, are you more interested in Coinbase and Robinhood?

你更关注那些去中心化应用，比如Uniswap、Aerodrome吗？

Are you more interested in the the the dApps, like Uniswap, Aerodrome?

你是不是又开始对第一层区块链感兴趣了？

Are you, like, getting interested in layer ones again?

比如，今年剩下的时间你看好什么？

Like, what what are you bullish on for the rest of the year?

对我来说，大概有两类。

For for me, there's kinda two categories.

一类是加密货币相关的股票。

It's the crypto equities.

我觉得Coinbase和Robinhood会继续表现不错，因为它们会继续融入链上世界，不断吸引用户，并且把传统金融世界和加密货币世界或者说链上世界连接起来。

So I think Coinbase and and Robinhood will continue to do well as they continue to integrate into the on chain world and and and onboard users and sort of integrate, and connect the the TradFi world and the the crypto world or the on chain world.

所以我觉得这两个是不错的选择。

So I think those two are a good bet there.

Galaxy 可能是另一个，不过它现在被狠狠打压了……

Galaxy could be the other one, though it's getting absolutely beat...

因为 CoreWeave 的情况，它现在暴跌了，那是它的主要租户。

Crashed right now because of the core we've situation, which is its main tenant.

所以 Galaxy 显然同时涉及 AI 和加密货币。

So it's Galaxy's obviously both AI and crypto.

所以这就是我在股票方面持续关注的三项资产。

So those are our three assets that I continue to watch on the equity side.

然后在链上方面，我觉得主要是 DeFi。

And then on the on chain side, I think it's mainly DeFi.

对我来说，Uniswap 最近表现很好。

For me, Uniswap has had a really good run.

所以我真的希望，如果比特币像我们节目早些时候讨论的那样回调到 74,000 到 78,000 美元，我觉得我们会看到山寨币出现一些抛售。

So I'm really hoping that if we get that pullback in Bitcoin down to $74.78 ks that we were talking about earlier in the show, I think we'll see a little puke in alts.

到那时候，我打算部署，Uniswap会是其中之一。

And at that point, I plan to plan to deploy Uniswap will be one of them.

我希望它能再跌一点。

I'm hoping it comes down further.

我不知道它会不会跌到比刚才回调到的7美元更低。

I don't know if it'll get any lower than than kind of the $7 that it just pulled back to.

但如果真能到6美元或更低，我就会买很多。

But if it does get to like $6 or lower, then I'm gonna I'm gonna buy a bunch of it.

Aerodrome是另一个我想买的，但它根本没有回调。

Aerodrome is the other one that I was wanting to buy, but it literally didn't have any pullback.

它完全不受加密货币影响。

It was just not affected at all by crypto.

比如Uniswap跌了35%。

Like Uniswap is down 35%.

Aerodrome却在创局部新高。

Aerodrome is like hitting high like local highs.

这个我确实不太理解。

I don't really understand that.

但我就是想买一篮子去中心化交易所，因为我真的觉得股票会推动交易量大幅上升。

But I just want to get a basket of DEXs because I really think that stocks is going to drive the volumes a lot higher.

所以你可以买股票交易所，也可以买链上的去中心化交易所。

And so you can buy exchanges on the equity side or you can buy DEXs on the on chain side.

我觉得这两种长期持有都会表现很好。

And I think both will be really good long term holds.

我对Aave很感兴趣，因为我觉得Aave是整个DeFi的基石。

I'm interested in Aave because I think Aave is just a backbone of the whole DeFi.

所以如果有人想搭建DeFi，可能……

So if anyone wants to build a DeFi, probably...

如果你想做借贷市场，而这基本上又是其他一切的基础，那你很可能就会用到Aave。

And you wanna build lending borrowing markets, which is, again, pretty much kind of the foundation for everything else, you you are probably gonna use Aave.

所以我对Aave真的很有兴趣。

So I am really interested in Aave.

我也在看Sky，但问题是过去几个月它基本没什么增长。

I'm also checking Sky, but my issue is that there is no growth really over the last couple months.

就是一直在横盘。

It's just going sideways.

还有Kyle最喜欢的那一个，就是Chip AI，它把GPU的信用引入市场……

And Kyle's favorite one, which is chip AI, which brings, you know, the the credit from GPUs...

以GPU为支撑进入市场，这其实挺有意思的，因为这样你就能接触到这个蓬勃发展的市场。

Backed by GPUs into the markets, which is actually pretty interesting because, you know, how you can get exposure to this kind of booming market.

所以这就是一条路。

So this this is the way.

所以，是的，我在关注DeFi的老牌项目，比如Sky、Aave，还有Athena，同时也在找那些带来新东西、有创新、目前市场上还没有的项目，比如Chip。

So, yeah, I'm I'm looking at, like, let's say, OGs of DeFi, so Sky, Aave, also Athena, and then looking into something that is bringing something new, something innovative, something that's not available anywhere right now and with that...

Chip就是一个例子。

The example of Chip.

我其实忘了提Chip了。

I actually forgot to to mention Chip.

我觉得我们真该专门做一期节目来聊聊这个。

I actually think, you know, we should probably do a whole episode on this one time.

也许下周的综述里我们会深入探讨一下。

Maybe we'll we'll dive deeper into it in in next week's roll up.

现在市场上出现了一种新的金融资产，跟GPU和算力有关，而且……

But there's a new financial asset in the world now with GPUs, and compute, and there's...

市场正在摸索怎么给这类东西定价，对吧？

The the market is trying to figure out how to price this stuff, right?

因为它波动性挺大的，而且计算资源还有好几种不同的版本。

Because it's it's very, well, can be volatile, but there's also many different versions of it, of of compute.

GPU也有不同的型号和版本。

You know, there's different versions of of GPUs.

所以我们得想办法给它定价，并围绕它建立一个市场。

And so we're trying to figure out how to price it and create a market around it.

传统金融界也在尝试这么做，但咱们都知道他们在这些方面不太行，而链上世界在这方面其实非常擅长。

And so the TradFi world is trying to do that, but we know the TradFi world kind of sucks at this stuff, whereas the on chain world is actually really good at this stuff.

所以我觉得，对于加密货币或者DeFi来说，真的有一个非常大的机会，可以抢先一步，走在传统金融试图在GPU上做的事情前面，就像Chip在做的那样。

So I think there's a really, really big opportunity for crypto or or or DeFi to kind of front run What the TradFi world is trying to do on GPUs is kind of what Chip is doing.

不过有点不一样。

It's a little different.

他们更多是在融资方面。

They're more on the on the funding side.

但我觉得，如果我们能开始为GPU创建市场，并围绕这类资产建立各种服务，那真的会是一个很好的机会，让人们能够跳过传统金融，直接上链，开始使用链上的各种基础工具，比如永续合约、现货，或者某种定价市场，甚至是融资。

But I think if we can start to create markets for GPUs and and build, sort of services around that asset class, that could be a really, like, good opportunity for, like, people to kinda leapfrog and jump past TradFi and go straight on chain and start to use on chain primitives, for the GPU market, whether it's perps or, it's spot or it's, you know, it's some sort of pricing markets, or it's it's it's funding.

现在AI建设中有大量的融资活动。

Like, there's so much financing going on right now in the AI build out.

我觉得加密货币必须在这方面扮演重要角色。

And I think crypto needs to be a big part of that.

Chip就在做这件事，我很喜欢。

Chip is doing that, which I'd love.

我觉得他们是一个非常酷、非常有趣的协议，但还有很多项目也在做类似的事情，我觉得那里也有很多机会。

I think they're really cool, interesting, protocol, but there's a bunch that are coming up that are doing this, and I think there's there's a lot of opportunity there as well.

约翰，你呢？

John, what about you?

我觉得我同意很多这些观点。

I think I echo a lot of this.

我主要集中投资在比特币和以太坊上。

I'm very heavily concentrated on Bitcoin and Ethereum.

我投资组合的其余部分，主要放在我认为是蓝筹或最好的DeFi项目和协议上。

I have the rest of my portfolio very focused on a lot of what I think are the blue chip or the best DeFi projects and protocols.

除了Uniswap和Aerodrome，我还有一个更长的名单，但我不想把每个名字都说出来。

I have a a longer list outside of Uniswap and just Aerodrome, but I don't wanna give every name away.

但我对隐私也非常感兴趣。

But I am really interested also in privacy.

我认为这正在成为一个非常重要的叙事，而且不仅仅是为了密码朋克或加密货币原住民，机构也希望能够在链上互动，获取深度流动性和公共区块链生态系统，以及正在建设和增长的技术和去中心化交易所。

I think that's becoming a a really important narrative, and it's not just for cypherpunks or, like, crypto native people, but institutions want a way to be able to interact on chain, get access to the the deep liquidity and public blockchain ecosystems and the technologies and DEXs that are being built and that are growing.

他们希望能够在保持一定隐私和保密性的情况下做到这一点，而不是让他们的每一个头寸都公开，被竞争对手盯上。

They But wanna be able to do it in a way that maintains a degree of, like, privacy and confidentiality and, like, not having every position they have available publicly to be hunted by their competitors.

所以我对那些试图提供解决方案的项目很感兴趣。

So I'm interested in in projects that are trying to offer a solution for that.

所以我一直在关注Midnight侧链他们在做什么，我觉得Near能提供保密性。

So I've been paying attention to what they're building at the Midnight side chain, and I think Near offers confidentiality.

所以这对他们来说是一个很大的价值驱动点。

And so that's been a a big angle for for value driver for them.

所以这只是数字资产领域一个正在受到关注的大趋势。

So that's just like a a a big trend in digital assets that, you know, is starting to get attention.

很多不同的区块链项目都在努力推出解决方案。

A lot of different projects in blockchains are trying to come to market with solutions for that.

以太坊正试图直接在其一层上构建这个功能。

Ethereum is trying to build that directly into their l one.

所以大家都在想办法解决这个问题，因为这是有需求的，比如合理的隐私保护。

So it's like everybody is trying to come up with a solution for this because it's it's something that's needed, like rational privacy.

所以这也是我在关注的事情，并且试图在我的投资组合中构建一个关于这个主题的论点。

And so that's something I'm watching too and trying to build into my portfolio, like, an articulation of a thesis on that.

但是，是的，我想……

But, yeah, I'd...

比如，我同意。

Like, I agree.

我在DeFi领域的主要项目上投入很多，而且那里发生了很多事情。

I'm I'm heavily concentrated on the majors in DeFi, and there's just, like, there's a lot that's happening.

永续合约，我……

Perps, I...

我有一些……

I've got a...

我也有些投资。

I've got some exposure to as well.

但我只是……

But I'm just...

我对整个领域非常看好，但这也挺难的，因为我不想持有60种不同的资产，但我也在努力确保自己对很多事物都有明确的观点。

I'm I'm wildly bullish on the whole space, and it's kind of difficult because I don't wanna have 60 different things in my bags, but I'm also trying to make sure I'm, you know, expressing a thesis on a lot of things right now.

但是，是的，我只是……

But, yeah, I'm just...

我对加密货币整体非常看好。

I'm really bullish across the board on crypto.

那个……

The...

还有一个……

There's another...

Circle 现在看起来其实挺有吸引力的，有两个原因。

Circle actually looks a little juicy right now, for for two reasons.

第一，我们刚才聊了稳定币，以及为什么我们认为它会因为代理使用而增长。

One, I mean, we just talked about stablecoins and why we think it's gonna grow from agentic use.

而且总的来说，它显然是个更好的产品，所以我觉得企业最终会在某个时候采用它。

And just in general, it's it's obviously a better product, so I think enterprises will eventually adopt it at some point.

我不可能是唯一一个在自己的业务里这么做的人。

I can't be the only one doing it with my business.

对，肯定也有别人会这么做。

Like, someone else has to do it too.

这肯定会来的，因为产品好太多了。

Like, it's definitely gonna come because it's a way better product.

所以，我觉得就USDC的增长来说，这肯定会发生的。

So, like, I just think in in terms of USDC growth, I think that is going to happen.

但另外，我们现在有点处于……

But then also, we're we're kind of in a...

我们现在在加息周期里。

You know, we're increasing rates right now.

所以这对Circle的利润是有好处的。

So this is better for the bottom line of Circle.

所以如果我们能有一个世界，稳定币的使用因为代理而增长，而且我认为我们即将进入的宏观环境是更高增长，所以GDP更高，因此利率也更高。

And so if we can have a world where both, you know, stable coin use grows because of agents and because I think the the the macro world we're going into is higher growth, so GDP higher, and thus higher rates.

所以我觉得我们其实可以维持更高的利率，不一定非得高得离谱。

So I think we can actually sustain higher rates, Not necessarily, like, crazy high.

我觉得我们不会像2022年那样大幅加息，但我们可以维持较高的利率。

I don't think we're gonna, like, raise rates like we did back in 2022, but I think we can sustain higher rates.

我们不需要降到零、一或二这样的水平。

We don't need to go down to, like, zero or one or two or anything like that.

所以我认为这对Circle的利润来说是个好兆头。

And so I think this is actually a a good sign for Circle's bottom line.

这也是我继续买入Coinbase的原因，因为Coinbase基本上拿走了Circle所有收入的50%。

Also why I continue to to buy Coinbase because Coinbase basically takes, like, 50% of all Circle's revenues.

但我认为Circle正在形成一个大的投资机会，而且它最近被压得很低。

But I think there's a bulk case setting up for Circle, and it's been pretty beaten down, over the last while.

所以我觉得Circle也有不错的机会。

So I think there's a good opportunity on Circle as well.

我觉得有很多加密货币股票会表现不错。

I think there's a lot of, crypto equities that'll do well.

我们还没提到Securitize和那些现在大多看不见的玩家，但他们在后台做了很多事情。

We haven't even covered, like, securitize and, like, you know, all these kind of players that are invisible today mostly, but they are doing a lot of stuff on the back end.

而且，比如说，我也持有Figr，它可能是目前把最多真实世界资产带上链的玩家之一，但几乎没人谈论它。

And, like, for example, I also own Figr, which is probably one of the biggest players who brought the most real world assets on chain today, and yet nobody's talking about it.

现在Figure的CEO和创始人，他还推出了一款新产品，叫Nastra还是Hastra，反正就是类似的名字。

Now the CEO and founder of of Figure, he also launched a new product, which is called Nastra or Hastra, whatever it's called.

然后……

And...

但其实就是想打造一个新的金融科技，把链上的各种好处带给普通用户。

But it's it's just about kind of creating a new fintech that is gonna bring all the on chain kind of benefits to the everyday user.

所以这挺简单的。

So it's pretty easy.

你只需要体验你熟悉的界面，比如你用Robinhood或Coinbase时的那种。

You will just experience, you know, the the the interface that you're used to when you are using, let's say, Robinhood or Coinbase.

界面非常基础、易用，但你用的是链上的。

So very kind of primitive and easy to use, but you'll be using on chain.

你只是不知道而已，但你能享受到所有链上的好处。

You you just don't know about that, and you will benefit all all the upside of that.

这些就是没人谈论但正在发生的事情。

So those are kind of things that nobody's talking about, but it's happening.

比如，Figure 每个季度都在疯狂增长。

Like, figure is growing, like, crazy quarter over quarter.

所以，在我看来，还是有一些玩家是隐藏的宝石，没人真正在讨论他们。

And so, like, there there are still players that are still kind of hidden gems in my opinion that nobody's really talking about.

我完全同意。

I definitely agree with that.

我觉得这个领域里有很多价值，无论是代币、股票还是数字资产，Figure 就是一个很好的例子。

I think that there's a lot of value across the space, tokens and equities and and digital assets, and figures, a great example of that.

我正试着邀请他上节目采访他，因为这事儿……

I'm trying to get I'm trying to get my on the show to interview him about this actually because it's...

你说得对。

You're right.

它确实没得到足够的关注，而且它真的很棒。

It's not getting enough attention, and it's amazing.

所以，我们下次继续。

So to be continued.

好了，各位。

Alright, guys.

嗯，我觉得我们就到这里吧。

Well, I think we're gonna end it there.

谢谢你们来参加这个节目。

Thanks for for hopping on and doing this.

各位，对于正在观看的观众来说，这是Crypto Roll Up。

Guys, for our audience watching, this is the the crypto roll up.

我们打算每周或每两周进行一次对话，互相交流一下近况，分享我们对市场的看法和最近发生的事。

We're trying to do, like, a weekly conversation or biweekly conversation to check-in, catch up with each other, and just share our thoughts on the market, what's happening here.

如果你们喜欢，请在下方留言。

So if you like it, comment below.

告诉我们你们的反馈。

Let us know your feedback.

告诉我们你们想让我们讨论的其他话题，简介里的链接会带你们去Milk Road PRO。

Let us know other topics you'd like us to discuss, and the link in the description will take you to Milk Road PRO.

你们今天就可以加入。

You can join today.

只要一美元，如果你想在Discord里和我们聊天，或者想争论永续合约、去中心化交易所之类的事情。

It's just a dollar if you wanna talk to us all in Discord and get into fights about perps and DEXs and other things.

那会很有趣。

It's a lot of fun.

我们玩得很开心，也学到了很多。

We have a great time, and we learn a lot.

所以我们希望在那里见到你们。

So we hope to see you there.

Kyle，Martin，非常感谢你们的到来。

Kyle, Martin, thank you so much for being here.

我很期待下一次。

I'm looking forward to the next one.

这真是太有趣了。

This has been a lot of fun.

谢谢你们邀请我们。

Thanks for having us on.

感谢收听Milk Road。

Thanks for listening to Milk Road.

如果你喜欢这期节目，记得点赞和订阅。

If you enjoyed the show, make sure you like and subscribe.

如果你在市场中难以找到赢家，

And if you're struggling to find winners in the

那正是Milk Road PRO的用武之地。

market, that's exactly what Milk Road PRO is built for.

我们的分析师提前发现了一些最大的赢家，PRO让你看到他们接下来买什么，他们做的每一笔交易，以及每个仓位背后的研究。

Our analysts have called some of the biggest winners early, and PRO lets you see what they're buying next, every trade they make, and the research behind every position.

点击下方链接查看Milk Road PRO。

Check out Milk Road PRO at the link below.

你在Milk Road上听到的所有内容都仅供参考。

Everything you hear on Milk Road is for informational purposes only.

这些都是我们的个人观点，不是财务建议，而且我们可能持有我们提到的某些投资。

These are our personal opinions, not financial advice, and we may own some of the investments we talk about.

一定要自己做研究，做出最适合你的决定。

Always do your own research and make the decisions that are right for you.

下次见。

See you next time.