加密市场的牛市可能比任何人预期的都要早开始

你可以这样看，觉得他们只赚了几百万美元。

You could look at this and say they've only made a few million dollars.

你也可以换个角度，认为下一个世纪的金融格局正在实时被摸索出来。

You could also look at this and say that the next century of finance is getting figured out in real time.

大家好，最近怎么样？

What's up, everybody?

我是 lg doosette，欢迎来到 Milk Road 节目，这是一档每日加密货币节目，毫无疑问，在 Ben McKenzie 看来，这节目绝对强势回归，简直让人难以置信。

It's l g doosette here, and welcome to the Milk Road show, the daily crypto show that is absolutely, without a shred of a doubt, in Ben McKenzie's mind, back like you would not believe.

今天是 2026 年 9 月 4 日，录制于三号下午，正好在市场小幅上涨之后。

Today is 09/04/2026, recording on the afternoon of the third right after the market had a nice little pop.

我回来主持这期特别的周五节目，我们把镜头对准你最喜爱的播客主持人，问他为什么在超过两个月后首次购买加密货币，以及他对山寨币的疯狂扫货何时才会结束。

I'm back to host a very special Friday edition of the show as we turn the camera back onto your favorite podcast host and ask him why did he make his first crypto purchase in over two months, and when will his shopping rampage on alt end?

我没开玩笑。

I'm not kidding.

John 在 Milk Road PRO 投资组合中持有 30% 的现金已经好几个月了，此前他在比特币和以太坊大跌的日子里大量买入。

John was holding 30 percent cash for months in his Milk Road PRO portfolio after buying all those big red days on Bitcoin and ETH.

但上周，他终于买了Uniswap，而且已经涨了30%。

But last week, he finally bought Uniswap, and he's already up 30% on it.

这周，他终于等到了他一直期盼的牛市信号，决定把更多的钱投到山寨币上，你想看的话，只需要花一美元解锁Milk Road PRO，链接在下面。

And this week, he finally got the bull market signal he's been waiting for and has decided to unload even more into alts, which you'll need to unlock Milk Road PRO to check out for just a dollar at the link below.

我们免费告诉你Uniswap的消息。

We're giving you the freebie telling you about Uniswap.

好好享受这期节目吧。

Enjoy this episode.

好好享受这个市场吧。

Enjoy this market.

另外，今天别忘了去另一个频道看看我们的股票节目，Vincent会分享他对Coinbase和Robinhood的看法，还有代理金融浪潮即将到来但还没真正爆发的观点。

And also check out our stocks episode today over on the other channel where Vincent shares his thesis on Coinbase, Robinhood, and how the agentic finance wave is coming very quickly but has yet to really hit.

John，欢迎回来。

John, welcome back.

我很久没在播客上跟你聊了，但过去一两周，我跟你线上线下都聊了很多。

I haven't talked to you in a long time on a podcast, but I've talked to you a lot both in person and digitally in the last week or two.

哎呀，一两个星期能带来多大的变化啊，兄弟。

And my my, what a difference a week or two can make, man.

就是说，自从行情爆发以来，我们是不是还没录过节目？

Like, I don't we actually I don't have we done a show since everything went off?

我们录过一次。

We did one.

上周，应该是八月的最后一周，我们录了一期，讨论比特币的暴涨。

We did one last week, the last week of August, I think, to discuss Bitcoin going off.

但自那以后，情况又明显好转了。

But since then, things have significantly improved yet again.

所以欢迎回到你自己的节目。

So welcome back to your own show.

嗯，我很高兴能上自己的节目，LG。

Well, I'm happy to be on my own show, LG.

我也很高兴你能回来。

I'm happy to have you back too.

现在真是激动人心的时刻，是的，市场上现在有很多事情在发生。

These are exciting times, and, yeah, there's a lot going on in the markets right now.

对。

Yeah.

确实。

Absolutely.

我们得让大家带着好心情去过劳动节周末。

We gotta send people into their Labor Day weekend.

我觉得加密货币市场正在做到这一点。

Feeling good, and I think the crypto market is doing that.

约翰，我们是在9月3日下午录制的，今天早上醒来，看到了很多大绿柱。

John, we're recording this in kind of the afternoon on September 3, and this morning, woke up to some big, big green candles.

比特币有点突破了它之前的震荡区间。

Bitcoin kind of breaking out of its kind of chop range there for a bit.

怎么回事？

What's going on?

就是说，为什么我们突然又涨起来了？

Like, why are we why are we suddenly surging again?

因为我是对的，其他人都错了，我们要去瓦尔哈拉了，没人能拦得住我。

Because I was right, and everyone was wrong, and we're going to Valhalla, and no one can stop me.

对，就是这样。

And, yeah.

不是。

No.

我只是开玩笑。

I'm just okay.

所以我觉得有很多因素导致了这次上涨。

So I think there's been a number of things that have led up to this.

首先，如果要追溯到最初的逼空行情，特朗普在白宫说了‘超级流动性’。

The first thing that happened was I mean, if you wanna go all the way back to the initial short squeeze, Trump said hyper liquid in the White House.

斯科特·贝森宣布回购国债。

Scott Besson announced buybacks of treasury bonds.

市场对此反应非常积极。

The market reacted very positively to this.

很多空头被爆仓了。

A lot of shorts got wrecked and liquidated.

今天似乎也发生了类似的情况。

A similar thing seems to have happened today.

斯科特·贝森宣布，他的回购计划不仅仅是20亿到40亿美元。

Scott Besson announced that his buybacks are not just gonna be $2,000,000,000 to $4,000,000,000.

看起来他们预计在9月9日开始回购120亿美元的长期国债，并重新发行短期国债。

It looks like they're expected to, on, I believe, September 9, begin treasury buybacks of $12,000,000,000 of long dated bonds and reissue short dated bonds.

所以这缩短了美国未偿政府债务的久期，实际上增加了流动性，并且是财政部发出的一个强烈信号，表明他们愿意让美元贬值，以支持市场，支持债券市场，并且总体上为需要的地方提供流动性。

So this is shortening the duration of the outstanding US government debt, which effectively adds liquidity and is a a a strong sign of of an indication from the treasury department that they're willing to weaken the dollar, in order to be supportive to the the markets, support the bond markets, and sort of just in general give liquidity to the markets where it's needed.

我觉得这是引发这轮行情的原因之一。

I think that's one of the things that's kinda kicked this off.

另一件事是我们在Robinhood链生态系统中看到的巨大需求和活跃度。

The other thing that's happened is this huge amount of demand and activity that we're seeing in the Robinhood chain ecosystem.

他们有Ponds发射台。

They have the ponds launch pad.

他们有代币化股票。

They have tokenized stocks.

他们让这些业务互相促进。

They have them reinforcing each other.

他们交出了惊人的数据，无论是交易量、收入、手续费还是用户数。

They are putting up incredible amounts of numbers of of volume, of revenue, of fees, of users.

这个采用速度简直疯狂。

The adoption has been wild.

所以你现在看到市场上这种连锁反应，吸引了大量关注，把原本困在AI领域、一直停滞不前的热钱，又拉回到了Robinhood链上的加密战场。

And so you're seeing this sort of cascade throughout the market, drawing attention, bringing back the hot ball of money that was in AI, which has been stagnating, coming rushing back into crypto trenches on Robinhood chain.

Solana那边的交易者也正从Solana转移过来，进入这个生态。

The Solana trenchers are moving over from from Solana and and coming into this ecosystem as well.

所以就是有大量资金重新变得兴奋、重新参与、重新活跃起来，所有这些因素叠加在一起，形成了一个非常强劲的看涨论点。

So there's just a lot of capital that's gotten excited, gotten reengaged, reenergized, and so you're seeing all of this sort of compound into this very strong bullish thesis.

很多人原本预期比特币会走出那种BART形态，回落到我们这次逼空行情开始的位置。

A lot of people were expecting Bitcoin to do that BART pattern back down to where we started this short squeeze.

对。

Yeah.

但这种情况并没有发生。

That hasn't played out.

而今天，我们现在，就在录制的时候，比特币已经站在81000美元以上，而且还在往上走。

And today, we're I mean, right now, we're sitting above 81,000 on Bitcoin and climbing as we record this.

以太坊也超过了2500美元。

We're above 2,500 on Ethereum.

所以，你看，这一切都可能改变，但看起来，我们又得到了一个宏观催化剂，这似乎是个积极的信号。

So, look, all of this could change, but it seems like, again, we've gotten a macro catalyst that seems like a positive indication there.

是的。

And Yep.

你知道，美联储加息仍有可能，但看起来可能性不大了。

You know, Fed Fed rate hikes, could still happen, but seem less likely.

我仍然认为他们会维持利率不变。

I still think that they're gonna hold rates where they are.

《清晰法案》可能在两周内通过国会。

The Clarity Act could pass congress in two weeks here.

Robinhood链给加密货币带来了活力，所有这些都为强劲的看涨论点奠定了基础。

Robinhood chain has brought the life back to crypto, and all of this kinda sets up for a really strong a bullish thesis.

这可能会消退。

We we this may fade.

可能不会持续，但市场今天对此反应非常积极，我们已经看到比特币涨幅超过5%。

It may not hold, but that's the market is reacting really respond responding really positively to this today, and we've seen, like, a 5% rally over 5% rally in Bitcoin so far.

我们看看这一切能走多远。

We'll see how how far all this goes.

为什么Robinhood让你特别关注？

Why why does Robinhood stand out to you?

因为，显然，作为一个喜欢更刺激东西的人，这几周确实很令人兴奋。

Because I I I mean, obviously, as somebody who loves, like, more degen stuff, like, it's been an exciting couple weeks.

但与此同时，他们过去一两个月在这个链上的交易量和收入其实很少。

But simultaneously, like, their their volume and their revenue from the last month or two on this chain is minimal.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

比如，他们整个链昨天的手续费大概是3400万美元，这对他们来说算不错了。

Like, their fees on the on their entire chain yesterday were, like, $34,000,000, which is good for them.

以后会增长，但那其实不算多。

It's gonna grow, but that's not like that's that's not that much.

你明白吧？

You know what I mean?

那还是比Tether或Circle的收入少。

That's still less than than, Tethr or Circle are making in revenue.

对吧？

Right?

所以问题就在于，尤其是对于一家市值千亿美元的公司来说，新业务每天赚40亿美元，这算什么呢？

So it's just something where it's like, is that and especially for a $100,000,000,000 company having a new new line of business making $4,000,000,000 a day.

我是说，这看起来挺重要的，但这能带动整个行业吗？

I mean, it seems significant, but does that does that ignite the whole industry?

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我觉得这种看法太短视了。

I think that's, like, a very myopic view of it.

这不仅仅是他们这周赚了多少手续费或收入的问题，而是预示着资本市场的未来、代币化的未来、股票市场和加密货币市场的未来，以及这些东西如何融合，还有用户对这些东西真实而强烈的需求。

It's not just about the fees that they're generating or the revenue they've made this week, but it is a signal of the future of capital markets, the future of tokenization, of equities markets, of crypto markets, of how these things are coming together, of the real and strong user demand for these things.

而且这是一个概念验证。

And it it's it's a proof of concept.

它证明了这是可行的。

It shows that this works.

它证明了这种商业模式是可行的。

It shows that this business model works.

这也会迫使很多竞争对手提升自己的水平，因为Coinbase和他们的Base链必须实时应对这种情况，而且是以非常积极的方式。

It also compels a lot of their competitors to step up their game because Coinbase and their base chain are having to respond to this in real time and and in a very aggressive way.

其他竞争对手也得跟着做类似的事情。

Other competitors are gonna have to do similar things.

我采访过OKX的总经理，他在节目里谈到他们确实在大力推进代币化，努力做到合规，最大化他们的分发渠道，还计划让AI用户也进入他们的平台。

OKX, I interviewed, the general manager of OKX on the channel, and he talked about how they're really pursuing tokenization, how they're trying to be regulatory compliant, maximize their distribution, plan for artificial intelligent, users to come onto their platform as well.

所以这一切都在加速，这不仅仅关乎这周的数字或者他们赚了多少手续费。

So all this is accelerating, and it's not so much just about this week or what numbers they put up or how much fees they made from this.

这关乎金融的未来和它的走向，这才是这一切的最大启示。

It's about the future of finance and where this is going, and that is the big takeaway from all of this.

重要的是，不能因为现在只是一些模因币就忽略了这一点。

And it's important to not lose that just for the the fact that it's a few meme coins right now.

另外，这种模因活动也在迫使做市商铸造更多全球市值最大资产的代币化股票。

The other thing too is that the memetic activity is forcing the market makers to mint more tokenized stocks of some of the largest market cap assets on the planet.

所以现在这种模因币活动不再局限于像Solana、以太坊或USDT这样的交易对。

And so now this meme coin activity isn't just limited to, you know, trading pairs like Solana, Ethereum, or USDT.

现在的交易对变成了英伟达、特斯拉、Alphabet和Meta。

Now the trading pair is Nvidia and Tesla and and Alphabet and Meta.

所以现在这将成为推动迷因投资和迷因币活动的主要方式，以及在这个生态系统和那种链上赌场中创造的价值，将价值带回实体经济、真实市场，并扩大那里的机会集、产品和服务。

So now this is is gonna become a major way to drive memetic investing and meme coin activity and and the value of that that's created in that ecosystem and that sort of, like, on chain casino, driving value back into the real economy and real markets and expanding the the opportunity set there and the product offerings there, the services there.

然后，一旦AgenTik金融和AI代理开始成为更主流的工具，用于人类辅助交易，也用于自主无监督交易，那将继续加速、采用和扩展。

And then once AgenTik finance and AI agents start to become more mainstream adopted tool for, human assisted trading, but also agentic unsupervised trading, that continues to accelerate and adopt and and and expand.

所以这只会从这里继续增长。

And so this just continues to grow from here.

所以我觉得，你知道，你可以这样看，他们只赚了几百万美元。

So I think, you know, you could you could look at this and say they've only made a few million dollars.

你也可以这样看，下一个世纪的金融正在实时被解决，这是一个非常激动人心的时刻，值得关注，看看会发生什么，谁推出什么，因为现在有太多事情在发生。

You could also look at this and say that the next century finance is getting figured out in real time, and it's a really exciting time to be paying attention and just looking at what what happens, who launches what, because there's just so much happening right now.

这里有太多的信号和噪音。

There's there's so much signal and noise here.

所以不要仅仅因为只有几百万美元的费用就错过这个。

So don't don't miss this just saying there's only a few million dollars that of fees that they're making.

他们带来的变化和影响远不止这些。

There's a lot more changes and impact that they're making than just that.

大家好。

Hi, everyone.

我是John。

This is John.

听我说。

Listen.

我们的Milk Road PRO分析师精准预判了这波AI牛市。

Our Milk Road PRO analysts nailed this AI bull market.

他们之前做了那么多电话沟通，这对我们的社区来说可是大获成功。

They had dozens of calls pay off in a big way for our community.

如果你想看看我们整个分析师团队是如何为这波熊市结束后的牛市做布局的，现在就来加入 Milk Road PRO 吧。

If you wanna see how our entire team of analysts are positioning for the crypto bull market that's gonna come after this bear market finally ends, you can join us now at Milk Road PRO.

只要一美元。

It's just a dollar.

链接就在简介里。

Link is in the description.

你可以看到我们所有分析师的交易记录、他们的观察清单，了解他们是怎么在投资组合里应对这些的，还能随时在 Discord 上问我们问题，白天黑夜都行。

You'll get access to all of our analysts' trades, their watch list, and see how they're navigating this in their portfolios, and get access to ask us questions in Discord anytime day or night.

只要一美元。

It's just a dollar.

链接在描述里。

Link's in the description.

Milk Road PRO。

Milk Road PRO.

现在就加入吧。

Join now.

到时候见。

I'll see you there.

我想继续聊聊 Uniswap 和我们在开头预告的其他一些内容。

Can you I I wanna move on to Uniswap and and some of the other stuff that we'll have teased in the intro.

但也许你能解释一下那些代币化交易对到底是什么。

But maybe you can explain what those tokenized pairs actually are.

因为我觉得这是我意识到的一点，比如，我一下子就明白了，而且你知道，当我在玩这些东西的时候，但我也意识到，很多人不一定理解这些模因币和它们的RWA对应物之间到底是怎么关联的。

Because I think that that's something I've realized, like, I immediately understood and, you know, when I was playing with this stuff, but I realized that it's not something a lot of people necessarily understand about how some of these meme coins are are are actually related to their their RWA counterparts.

所以我觉得，对任何人来说，开始了解这个的好起点是Hayden Adams。

So I think a good place to start for this for anybody to start with this is with Hayden Adams.

Hayden Adams是Uniswap的创始人。

Hayden Adams is the founder of Uniswap.

而且我觉得他在推特上写着，他发明了Uniswap协议。

And I think he he on Twitter, it says, invented the Uniswap protocol.

他也是这个项目的创始人。

And he's the founder of the project.

但如果你看看文章，他写了自2019年以来的第一篇博客。

But if you look under articles, he wrote his first blog post since 2019.

我觉得这很重要，因为这个人一直是去中心化金融领域的重要玩家、重要创始人，也是多年来最重要的人物之一。

And this is significant, I think, because this guy has been a major player, a major founder, and one of the most important figures in decentralized finance for many, many years.

在沉默了将近七年之后，他写了一篇关于某事的博客。

And after a period now of, I think, almost seven years of silence, he wrote his his own blog post on something.

但他讲的内容，标题是“相关交易对”，就是AMM如何……

But what he talked about was the title of it is correlated pairs, how a a m AMMs.

抱歉。

Sorry.

自动做市商赢得最大的市场。

Automated market makers win the biggest market.

对。

Yeah.

就是这个。

Here it is.

你把它调出来了。

You got it up.

对吧？

Right?

所以这就是他在这里讲的内容。

So this is what he's he's talking about here.

那你可能会问，他们拿什么来交易呢？

So what you ask, like, what are they trading against?

答案是，什么都可以。

The answer is everything.

所有东西都可以互相交易，而且你还能把一切都代币化。

Everything is gonna be traded against everything, and you're gonna be able to tokenize everything.

所以，你可以直接交易，比如我有一幅伦勃朗的画，想直接换成Pepe币或者英伟达的股票，我可以通过自动做市商来实现，它会自动找到流动性，完成交易结算，而且整个过程安全、可扩展、去中心化，效率也很高。

So you're gonna be able to trade like, if I have a Rembrandt painting and I wanna swap directly into Pepe coin and or into NVIDIA, I'm gonna be able to do that through an automated market maker that automatically sources that liquidity, settles those trades, and does it in a secure, scalable, decentralized, and and efficient manner.

所以，我建议你去读读那篇文章，因为理解这背后的意义真的很重要。

So you read that essay is what I would say for that because the the understanding of what this unlocks is really important.

Jordy Visser这周末的视频里也收录了我对Tom Lee的采访，因为Jordy对这个想法特别感兴趣。

Jordy Visser, included the interview I did with Tom Lee in his weekend video this weekend because this idea really got Jordy's attention.

但Hayden想表达的核心是，你将会拥有无限的流动性，无穷多的交易对，而且这些交易对之间，以前可能需要几周的延迟，大量滑点，找市场和买家都很困难。

But what what Hayden is getting at here is that you're gonna be able to have unlimited liquidity, infinite numbers of trading pairs, and and between things that before, you know, would had weeks of delay and lots of slippage and just difficulty of liquidity in finding a market and finding a buyer.

一旦所有这些资产都被代币化并上链，这一切都将在链上实现。

All that is gonna now be created on chain once all these assets are tokenized and brought on chain.

然后一旦你引入AI，再加上代理金融来交易所有这些资产，资金流动的速度、交易的速度、资本量，所有这些都会迅速加速增长。

And then once you introduce AI and you have agentic finance trading all these things as well, the velocity, the speed, the amount of capital, all these things accelerate and grow rapidly.

所以很难夸大代币化、加密货币、数字资产和代理金融之间正在发生的交汇有多么巨大。

So it's really hard to overstate how big of an intersection is happening between tokenization, crypto, digital assets, and agentic finance.

不仅解锁了各种新产品和服务，还会创造出以前根本不可能存在的新型市场，而所有这些都将通过像Uniswap这样的平台，最终在以太坊上结算。

And the not only the different kinds of products and services that are unlocked, but the new kinds of markets that never could have existed before are gonna be created, and all of this is gonna be settling down through things like Uniswap and ultimately Ethereum.

好的。

So okay.

这个解释很有帮助。

That that's a helpful explainer.

我觉得我还想帮大家理解的是，实际的交易对是怎么运作的。

I think I think what I also wanted to kinda help people understand too is, like, how the actual pair works.

你知道吗？

You know?

比如说，不。

So for example no.

但是不。

But no.

不。

No.

不。

No.

别这么说，你说的内容比我聪明多了，也有趣多了。

Don't say, oh, what you said was way more intelligent and way more interesting.

但我觉得，有些人可能不太清楚，他们可能只是知道他们在ETH上交易过ETH和代币，他们可能明白那些代币是和ETH或USDC配对的。

But I think people I think just saying that some people might not like, just say that, you know, they've traded ETH and tokens on ETH, they real they maybe they understand that those tokens are paired with ETH or with USDC.

但在这个情况下，那些所谓的“赌徒”们创造了一些代币，这些代币不是和ETH或USDC配对的，而是和别的什么配对的。让我从我的角度来解释一下。

But that in this situation, what what the, degens have created are tokens where instead of let's say let's say maybe I can explain it from my perspective.

当Solana上有meme币的时候，每一个代币都是和Solana配对的。

When there were meme coins on Solana, every one of those tokens was paired with Solana.

对吧？

Right?

所以，作为去中心化的爱好者，你可以向流动性池贡献一些资金，比如贡献一些Solana和一些Fartcoin，然后就能获得一些手续费。

So the liquidity pool that you could contribute to as a as a, you know, decentralized enjoyer, You could contribute some of the so you would contribute to the liquidity pool and get some of the fees and you contribute some Solana and some Fartcoin, for example.

对吧？

Right?

所以你要同时贡献这两种代币，Fartcoin就会和Solana来回交易。

So you'd contribute both of those tokens and they would the Fartcoin would trade against Solana back and forth.

如果Solana跌了50%，Fartcoin也会跟着跌50%。

And if Solana crashed 50%, so did fartcoin.

而现在的情况是，人们创建了一种代币，它与股票，也就是代币化的股票配对。

What these are are that people are creating a token that's paired with a stock, with a tokenized stock.

比如，其中一种叫Artificial Inu，就像Shiba Inu，那只狗，一个备受喜爱的模因币狗狗。

So for example, one of them is called artificial Inu, which is like a Shiba Inu, the dog, a beloved meme meme coin dog.

那个叫AI，我就不展示了。

And that one is called AI, and I'm not not showing it.

但我要说的是，这种代币是和NVIDIA挂钩的。

But what I'm saying is that that trades against NVIDIA.

所以它的交易对就是英伟达。

So its trading pair is NVIDIA.

所以如果你想做流动性提供者，你提供的是代币化的英伟达股票，还有这个代币。

So if you wanna go be a liquidity provider, you are providing tokenized NVIDIA and also this token.

对吧？

Right?

所以这和以前见过的模式很不一样。

So that's very diff a different primitive than we've seen before.

约翰，我想问你的问题是，你知道，我们在节目里聊了很久的RWA（真实世界资产）。

John, what I wanted to ask you though, is that the, you know, we've talked about RWAs for a long time on our show.

尤其是在这轮熊市里，这一直是机构看涨的主要理由之一。

And this has been especially through this bear market as it has been one of the main institutional bull cases.

我们有像Figure这样的项目，把住房抵押贷款之类的资产搬到链上。

And we have things like Figure where you're like, you're you're making you're bringing, you know, housing mortgages and stuff like that on chain.

显然，稳定币在某种意义上也是RWA。

Obviously, stablecoins are are in a sense RWAs.

不过，当我们之前聊到代币化股票时，你预料到这种情况了吗？

Did you expect this though when we talked about tokenized stocks?

每当有人提到RWA时，你有没有想过，这种资产最初的爆发点之一，竟然会是那种，你知道的，有点不正经的迷因币？

Anytime anybody would talk over RWAs, did you think that one of the May the could you ever imagine one of the first velocity moments for this would be kind of like, you know, naughty meme coins?

嗯，我觉得这很难预测，但看起来Vlad Tenev确实看透了这一点。

Well, I think it's hard to speculate on this, but it does seem like Vlad Tenev figured this out.

我觉得这绝不是偶然。

Like, I I don't think this is an accident.

我觉得这家伙是真的想明白了。

I think this guy actually figured this out.

我觉得他意识到自己手里有一大批迷因股的爱好者，然后他想到，如果能把迷因币和代币化资产放在同一个平台上，他就能利用迷因币交易人群的那股热情，去撬动那些和华尔街资产挂钩的交易对，做出一件前所未有、既强大又新颖的事情。

I think he realized that he had a huge amount of, meme stonk enjoyers and realized that if he could bring meme coins and tokenized assets to one place, he could weaponize the, let's say, enthusiasm of the meme coin trading crowd against trading pairs that are, you know, matched up with Wall Street assets, and he could do something really powerful and novel that had never been done before.

我们还写过另一个例子，就是HIMS的股票和一种叫Boner coin的迷因币配对交易。

We wrote about another example of this of HIMS equity being paired with a meme coin called Boner coin.

我们在Milk Road的新闻通讯里写过这个。

We wrote about this in the the Milk Road newsletter.

对。

Yeah.

我们之所以讲这个，是因为它既好笑又重要。

Well, we I mean, we laid this out because it's it's hilarious, but it's also important.

而我觉得，这正是这一切的关键所在。

And that's that's the thing I think is so important about all this stuff.

对吧？

Right?

比如特朗普发他的特朗普币的时候，大家都有自己的看法，各种说法都有。

Like, when Trump launched his Trump coin, everybody had a take on this one way or the other, and I'm not like, there was a lot of there's a lot of a lot of takes to have.

但我一直说的是，你们忽略了一点：这相当于一个人吃晚饭的时候，没跟任何人商量，就完成了700亿美元的资本形成。这背后带来的资本市场整体变化，真的是前所未有的。

But the thing I kept saying was that the thing you're missing is that this was $70,000,000,000 of capital formation that a guy did while he was at dinner, right, without talking to anybody doing it's like the the amount of changes that are coming to capital markets overall because of this are really just just beyond beyond anything we've ever seen before.

我觉得Robinhood的CEO Vlad Tenev看明白了这一点，把它推向了市场。虽然当时不确定能不能成，但到目前为止，看起来是奏效了。

I think Robinhood CEO Vlad Tenev figured this out, brought this to market, and I I think it was a a, you know, a long shot if it was gonna work or not, but it it seems to have worked so far.

不过，话说回来，这能持续多久呢？

Now, again, how long this lasts?

我不知道。

I don't know.

这些都不是投资建议。

None of this is financial advice.

我并不是建议大家去买什么人工智能犬币或者骨头币之类的。

I'm not recommending anybody go out and buy, you know, artificial Inu or Boner coin by any means.

不过，这里真正值得关注的是概念验证。

However, it's the proof of concept is what's not to miss here.

对吧？

Right?

也就是说，你可以把几乎任何资产和另一种资产组成交易对。

Is that you can have trading pairs of almost any asset to any other asset.

如果它找到了产品市场契合点，在这种情况下，它是因为有趣才找到的。

And if it finds product market fit, this case, it's finding it because it's funny.

但如果它找到了产品市场契合点，是因为市场有巨大的需求，或者存在一个巨大的瓶颈，流动性无法获得，资本无法以其他方式流动，那么这就会给市场带来巨大的增值，而这仅仅是个开始。

But if it finds product market fit because there's a huge market demand for that or there's a huge choke point that can't get liquidity or capital can't flow in any other way, there's a huge value add that comes to the market in that, and that's just beginning.

我们现在才刚刚开始摸索这些东西是怎么运作的，以及它们未来会是什么样子。

We're just now at the the early stages of figuring out how these things work and what that can look like.

对。

Mhmm.

对。

Mhmm.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

所以我觉得这也是个很好的切入点，因为我觉得会有人听这个节目，可能你之前听说过这些，也可能没听说过。

So I think that that's a good jumping off point to because I think people are gonna listen to this, and maybe you've heard about this stuff or not.

其实这东西挺单一的。

There's there's there's it's it's pretty one dimensional.

基本上就是我们刚才讲的那些，但确实很有意思。

It's basically exactly what we've explained, but it is it is a lot of fun.

而且约翰，我之前跟你解释过，这种玩意儿通常出现在牛市初期，你会看到新想法、新基础构件，还有大量资金涌入。

And I was explaining to you, John, that this is also this is the kind of stuff you see at the start of bull cycles is you see new ideas, new primitives, and and and a lot of liquidity flushing into it.

而且我觉得这真的很令人兴奋，因为就像你说的，Vlad Tenev，这个领域最重要的人物之一，拥有最有前途的金融系统公司之一，真的在世界上或者金融体系里，他支持这个并且希望它成功。

And I think it's also really exciting because, like you said, Vlad Tenev, one of the most important people in the space with one of the most promising, you know, finance systems companies of of of of, really in in the world or whatever in the financial system kinda behind this and and wanting this to succeed.

对吧？

Right?

所以这非常重要。

So it's very important.

但这是一个很好的切入点，来聊我今天想跟你谈的，就是Uniswap。

But this is a good jumping off point into what I wanted to talk to you about today, which is Uniswap.

而且你已经提到了。

And you've already kinda brought it up.

但我觉得很多人会听这个，然后想，好吧。

But and and I think a lot of people are gonna be listening to this and be like, okay.

那我怎么从中获利呢？

Well, how do I capitalize on this?

我是不是直接买Robinhood的股票？

Do I just buy Robinhood?

我是不是该去买那个，你知道的，boder代币？

Do I do I go and buy, you know, boder token?

你懂的，对吧？

There's you know?

还是说我要去买其他那些，你懂的，我是不是该试试买Robinhood的pump基金，也就是pawns？

Or do I buy to some of the other you know, do I try and buy the pump fund of Robinhood, which is pawns?

比如说，我的钱该往哪儿放？

Like, where am I going with my money?

我觉得我不会建议大多数人去趟这浑水，试着交易这些东西，但很多路都指向Uniswap，因为他们确实是很多这类交易的枢纽。

I don't think I wouldn't recommend most people to go into the trenches to try and trade this stuff, but a lot of roads point back to Uniswap because they're definitely the ones routing a lot of these trades.

好的。

Okay.

我要从很多不同的角度来谈这个。

I'm gonna I'm gonna take this from a lot of different directions.

首先，我觉得有个boner代币这事儿太搞笑了。

First of all, I think it's hilarious that there's a boner boner token.

这太棒了。

This is great.

我太爱加密货币了。

I love crypto.

所以是你先提起的。

So brought it up.

我本来想保持干净，只聊那一个。

I tried to keep it clean by just talking about the one.

对吧？

Okay?

我本来想，但没忍住，是你先说的。

I tried I didn't try you went there.

是你先提的。

You went there.

链上金融一点都不脏。

There's there's nothing dirty about on chain finance.

好的。

Okay.

咱们还是回到正题上来吧。

Let's let's let's stay on target here.

好的。

Okay.

这不过是另一个空气币。

It's just another fart coin.

Fargas 也就是个空气币。

Fargas is another fart coin.

天哪，这种事总是这样，总是会发生。

Man, it's always it's always the this thing is these things always happen.

总得有个像那样的领头人。

It always has to have some kind of leader like that.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这是这个月的笑话。

It's the joke of the month.

好。

Okay.

我有一个很好的朋友，我真的很喜欢他。

So I have a good friend who I really like a lot.

他叫凯利·凯勒姆。

His name is Kelly Kellam.

他和我以前一起在Discover Crypto YouTube频道工作，但他说交易模因币就像试图抓住从猎枪射出的鸟弹中的一颗弹丸。

And he and I used to work together on the Discover Crypto YouTube channel, but he says that trying to trade meme coins is like trying to catch a single pellet that comes out of a a birdshot from from a shotgun.

他说一切都太快了。

And he says it's there's everything is moving too fast.

你什么都看不见，几乎不可能真正计划和做到。

You can't see any of it, and it's almost impossible to actually plan that and do it.

作为投资者，这不是一个能可靠操作的事情。

It's it's not a a thing you can reliably do as an investor.

所以如果你想在这些发射台上玩一玩那些新推出的东西，那随你便，但我可不推荐。

So if you wanna have some fun with some of these things that are actually being launched on these launch pads, you know, that's choose your own adventure, but I don't recommend that.

这真的不是一种能让你合理预期回报的资本配置方式。

It's it's not really an easy way to to deploy your capital with any kind of reasonable expectation for a return.

再往下看一层，就是发射台本身，我们频道的朋友迈克尔·纳多称之为快速DeFi，比如Pump.fun或Ponds，这些可能是不错的投资。

So one level down from that is the launch pads themselves, which, you know, our our friend of the channel, Michael Nadow, calls fast DeFi, things like pump fun or ponds, and these things can be good investments.

但我觉得这里要说的是，这有点像买赌场的股份，但护城河并不深。

But I think that the the thing I would say there is it's a little bit like buying a stake in the the crypto casino, but there's not really a ton of a moat.

你其实赌的只是那种狂热持续、势头不减，除此之外没什么别的。

There's not really, like, anything you're betting there on there other than, like, the frenzy keeps going, the momentum keeps going.

这不一定是个糟糕的交易，但它波动性大、投机性强，而且真的由情绪、势头和那种狂热驱动，而不是稳定的业务。

It's not that it's a bad trade necessarily, but it is highly volatile and speculative, and, you know, it's it's really driven by sentiment and momentum and and just the the frenzy that's created as opposed to, like, necessarily, like, stable business necessarily.

虽然迈克尔在这方面比我懂得多得多。

Although Michael is a much better resource on that than me.

所以，快速DeFi是另一种参与方式。

So but fast DeFi is another way to play this.

而慢速DeFi，或者说常规DeFi，我认为是更有吸引力的层面，因为它也是对除了MemeCoin赌场之外的其他事物的看涨期权。

Slow DeFi or, you know, regular DeFi is, I think, a much more attractive layer because it's also a call option on things beyond just the MemeCoin casino.

它是对所服务的基础设施的看涨期权，而且它有更深的分布，更大的市场，透明，流动性更强，还有很多其他优势。

It's a call option on the rest of the infrastructure that is served, and it has a much deeper amount of distribution, much bigger markets, transparent, much more liquidity, a a lot of different things.

对吧？

Right?

更大的市值，更大的流动性池，更多的信任，更多的网络效应。

Bigger market cap, bigger pools of liquidity, more trust, more network effects.

比如Uniswap这样的项目。

So things like Uniswap.

你知道，我邀请了Alex Cutler，他是Dromos Labs的创始人或CEO，来自Aerodrome，现在与Coinbase在代币化股票方面有合作，他们正在快速增长和扩张。

You know, I had Alex Cutler who's the the founder of or the CEO of Dromos Labs from Aerodrome, which is a big player with tokenized stocks with Coinbase right now, and they're growing and expanding rapidly.

所以，像这样的参与者，我认为是更值得关注的地方，因为现在很多交易量都流经那里。

So players like those, I think, are are a a more interesting place to look because a lot of this volume is going through there right now.

比如说，当一个表情币，比如Boner Coin之类的，在Robinhood链上上线时，一旦它们的资金达到一定水平，通过了绑定曲线，它们就会进入Uniswap v4上的一个锁定池，这给Uniswap带来了大量的交易需求和交易量。

Like, when when a a token a meme token, like, boner coin or whatever, launches on pawns on Robinhood chain, Once they reach a certain level of capital to get through their bonding curve, they do go into a locked pool on Uniswap v four, and that is driving a huge amount of demand for swaps and for for volume on Uniswap.

而Uniswap，你知道，我决定入股这个项目，但他们修复了代币经济模型，改变了很多协议相关的东西，所以现在当这些流动性池被创建时，他们也会从流动性池产生的费用中抽取一部分，将其转化为对UNI代币的回购压力。

And Uniswap is is you know, I I decided to get a stake in this, but they they fixed their tokenomics, and they changed a lot of things about their protocol so that now when there's these liquidity pools are being created, they're also taking some of the the fees that are being generated there from for the liquidity pool and skimming some of that and turning that into buyback pressure for the UNI token.

所以Uniswap，Robinhood在他们的链上看到了表情币和现实世界资产的巨大爆发，这些在背后使用Uniswap，一旦这些达到一定程度，Uniswap就利用这些交易量和需求，这已经超过了他们的历史纪录。

So Uniswap so Robinhood has seen this huge explosion of meme coins and real world assets on their chain that is using Uniswap behind the scenes once these things get to a certain point, then Uniswap is using that volume, that demand, which is exceeding their all time records.

对吧？

Right?

现在Uniswap上的交易量创了纪录，他们从中拿出一部分来回购UNI代币。

They're doing record volume on Uniswap now, and they're taking some of that and using it to buy back the UNIT token.

最终，这一切又回到了以太坊和ETH，我要再说一遍，因为这一点非常重要，不要在这些细节中迷失。

Ultimately, this does all again, I'm gonna say this again because this is really important not to get lost in all of this.

这一切最终都会沉淀到以太坊和ETH上，ETH就是钱，是全球金融的根基。

This all does ultimately settle down to Ethereum in ETH, and ETH is money, and it's the root of global finance.

这就是这个概念验证的101，这就是下一个世纪金融的样子，欢迎来到未来。

And this is proof of concept one zero one for that, and this is what the next century of finance looks like, and welcome to the the future.

但无论如何，重点是，对于这些规模更大、更稳定、在我看来投资逻辑更强的慢速DeFi层，有一个很强的论点。

But in any event, the the point is that there's a strong thesis for some of these slower DeFi layers, that are much bigger, more stable, have stronger investment thesis in my view.

而这更符合我想投入资金的地方。

And that's it fits more where I wanna put my capital.

还有那些所有这一切最终结算的第一层网络，我认为长期来看对它们也非常有利，因为这会带来更多竞争对手去做类似Robinhood在做的事情，并且会带来更多资金进入这个领域。

And then also the layer ones that all of this settling on, I think it's also very bullish for them too for the long term because it's gonna bring more competitors to do similar things that what Robinhood is doing, and it's gonna bring more capital into into this space.

来自传统金融、传统金融的更多资产发行方会想要推出他们产品的代币化版本，以便进入这个正在生成的巨大资本飞轮。

More asset issuers from legacy finance, trad finance are gonna want to launch a tokenized version of their product in order to get access to this huge flywheel of capital that's being generated here.

所以有很多地方会从中受益，作为投资者，如果你想考虑如何在那里获得一个位置，你可以看很多地方。

So there's just a lot of places where there's gonna be benefits from this, and there's a lot of places you can, you know, as an investor, look at if you wanna, you know, think about how you wanna get a position there.

我不是在给任何人提供财务建议，我只是说，这里发生了很多事情。

I'm not giving anybody financial advice on this, but I'm just saying, like, there's a lot that's happening here.

涉及的东西很多。

There's a lot that's involved.

这里有很多赢家，我认为你必须自己做决定。

There's a lot of winners in this, and I think you have to kinda make your decision for yourself.

我想去试试买那种投机性的迷因币吗？

Do I wanna go try to buy one of these, like, degen meme coins?

我是想直接买以太坊，还是想在这个光谱中间找个位置？

Do I wanna just buy Ethereum, or do I wanna be somewhere in the middle of that spectrum?

而且，你得做对自己和你的投资理念最合适的选择。

And, you know, you have to do what's right for you and your thesis.

你知道，我们在这个节目里经常聊到，加密货币正在迅速成为全球支付基础设施的重要部分，而在亚洲这一点最为明显。

You know, one thing we've talked about a lot on this show is that crypto is quickly becoming a huge part of the global payments infrastructure, and nowhere is that more obvious than in Asia.

但如果你真的在运营一家汇款公司或支付业务，你知道难点不在于转移稳定币。

But if you're actually running a remittance company or a payment business, you know the hard part isn't moving the stablecoins.

难点在于处理当地银行合作伙伴、合规、流动性，以及向印度和东南亚等地汇款时遇到的各种运营麻烦。

It's dealing with local banking partners, compliance, liquidity, and all of the operational headaches that come with sending money into places like India and Southeast Asia.

这就是为什么今天的合作伙伴是Saber。

That's why today's partner is Saber.

他们为支付公司提供基于稳定币的基础设施，帮助在亚洲各地收款和付款，而无需自己构建所有这些复杂的系统。

They give payment companies stable coin powered infrastructure to collect and make payouts across Asia without having to build all of that complexity themselves.

他们已经处理了超过30亿美元的交易，覆盖40多个国家，所以这不仅仅是个概念。

They've already processed more than $3,000,000,000 in transactions across 40 different countries, so this isn't just a concept.

这些人真的是在真刀真枪地干。

These guys are actually doing this for real.

如果你在搭建支付基础设施，或者想拓展亚洲市场，一定要去saber.money看看。

If you're building payment infrastructure or expanding into Asia, make sure you check out saber.money.

我们能回到Uniswap发生了什么变化这个话题吗？

Can we just go back to what changed for Uniswap?

因为我觉得你已经跟我解释过几次了，但我很想再听一遍。

Because I think that's been something that you've explained to me a few times, and I'd love to hear it again.

而且，约翰，这也是你很久以来第一次在Milk Road PRO上买东西的动机——一周前你买了一些Uni。

And also, this is what motivated your first Milk Road PRO purchase in a long time, John, which was a week ago of of scooping up some Uni.

你提到他们改变了费用结构。

And you and you're discussed you're saying that they changed their fee structure.

过去几年Uniswap到底有什么问题？

What was wrong with Uniswap for the last couple years?

因为我2020年进入这个领域的时候，正好赶上那轮大牛市里DeFi的大爆发，Uniswap搞了个空投。

Because the when I came into the space 2020, there's Uniswap airdrop during that huge DeFi run of that that bull cycle.

Uni和其他那些DeFi代币，当时都承载着很多对未来的期待，现在可能终于要兑现了。你知道，那个代币当时涨到了大概40、50美元左右，对吧？

Uni and all these other DeFi tokens, obviously, with a lot of promise for the future, which maybe is now coming to fruition, you know, that thing ran to, like, $40.50 bucks or something like Right?

但上一轮周期里，它不像其他很多DeFi代币那样，后来基本没什么动静。

But it's not last cycle, like a lot of other DeFi tokens, never really did much.

但你跟我说，这整段时间以来，他们一直没能解决自己的代币经济模型，这几乎像是自己给自己挖的坑。

But you're telling me that it's been it's been almost like a self inflicted wound this whole time that they haven't been able to figure out their tokenomics.

那是什么意思？

What does that mean?

倒不完全是自找的，但确实因为Gensler那套监管压力和“扼喉行动2.0”的限制，他们一直被禁止做某些事情。

It hasn't been self inflicted exactly, but they haven't been allowed to do certain things because of the regulatory overhang that has been put in place by the Gensler regime and and Operation Chokepoint two point o.

而且，如果他们直接用收入来回购代币，那就会被认定为证券，基本上就得进监狱了。

And, like, if they were directly doing buybacks based on their revenue, then they would be considered a security and, like, you know, thrown in jail, basically.

所以Uniswap绕开这个问题的办法是，不直接用收入回购，而是从流动性提供者赚的手续费里抽一小部分，然后用这笔钱在公开市场上买入Uniswap代币，再把这些代币直接销毁。

So the way Uniswap got around this was instead of doing direct buybacks with their revenue, they skim a little bit of the liquidity provider generated revenue and then use that to buy Uniswap tokens on the open market and then just burn those tokens.

所以他们就是用这种方式绕过去的。

So that's that's the way they're kinda getting around this.

这不算直接回购，虽然也是回购，但钱是从流动性池、从流动性提供者那里来的。

It's not a I mean, it's buybacks, but it's not direct buybacks because it's coming from the liquidity pool the liquidity providers.

而且，亚历克斯·卡特勒说，他认为这对他们协议上的流动性提供者不公平，他们可能最终会被激励去别处寻找更多他们提供流动性所获得的回报。

And, you know, Alex Cutler says that he thinks that this is unfairly penalizing the liquidity providers on their protocol and that they may eventually become incentivized to look elsewhere to get more of the the reward that they're generating from providing the liquidity.

那也许吧。

And that's as maybe.

我不知道接下来会怎样。

I don't know what'll happen there.

这方面有很多争论。

It's there's there's a lot of back and forth on a lot of this.

大家都在试图找出正确的系统。

People are trying to figure out what the right system is.

人们会有不同的看法。

People are gonna have different opinions.

市场会做出决定的。

The market's gonna decide.

会有不同的参与者想要不同的东西。

There's gonna be different players who want different things.

但关键的是，Uniswap 长期以来一直被批评为只是一个无用的治理代币。

But the gist of it is Uniswap, for a long time, was criticized for just being a useless governance token.

它给了你投票协议提案的权利，但实际上并没有捕获协议创造的价值。

They gave you rights to vote on the protocol proposals, but didn't really capture any of the value that protocol is creating.

这涉及到很多相关的事情。

And this is like a whole bunch of stuff about all this.

这是一段很长的历史。

It's a long history.

比如，人们为此争论了很久。

Like, people have been fighting about this for a long time.

但我觉得重要的是他们所做的这种统一努力。

But the the thing I think is important is this unification effort that they've done.