1亿美元 Galaxy x Sky 交易对 DeFi 未来的意义是什么？

如果代币化市场增长到几万亿美元——我确实相信未来五年多内会实现——那么sUSDS很容易就能成为价值超过1000亿美元的资产。

If the tokenized market grows to many trillions of dollars, which I I actually do believe that will happen in the next five plus years, that sUSDS could easily become a $100,000,000,000 plus asset.

Galaxy购买了数量未公开的Sky代币，目前在其资产负债表上持有价值1亿美元的sUSDS。

Galaxy bought an undisclosed amount of Sky tokens and is now holding a $100,000,000 of sUSDS on its balance sheet.

这是机构资金终于开始进入DeFi的开端吗？加密货币投资者需要了解哪些相关信息？

Is this the beginning of institutional money finally coming to DeFi, and what do crypto investors need to know about all of this?

大家好，欢迎收听Milk Road Crypto，这档节目知道当Sky和Galaxy在金融未来上联手时，唯一的方向就是飞向月球。

Hello, and welcome to Milk Road Crypto, the show that knows that when Sky and Galaxy team up on the future of finance, the only direction to go is to the moon.

我是你们的主持人，John Gillen。

I'm your host, John Gillen.

今天是9月29日，星期二。

Today is Tuesday, September 29.

今天我们邀请到了两位嘉宾，Galaxy的借贷负责人Max Bareiss，以及Sky Frontier Foundation的全球资本市场负责人Greg Feibus，来讨论他们的新合作。

And today, we are joined by two guests, Max Bareiss, head of lending at Galaxy, and Greg Feibus, global head of capital markets at Sky Frontier Foundation to discuss their new partnership.

我们会给大家详细讲讲。

We're gonna tell you all about it.

这一期干货特别多。

There's gonna be a lot of alpha in this one.

如果你觉得不错，记得点赞订阅，把这期节目分享给需要听的人。

If that sounds good to you, make sure you like and subscribe, share this episode with somebody who needs to hear it.

另外提醒一下，我们今天的播客是免费的，这多亏了我们优秀的合作伙伴Nexo——一个让你在一个平台上就能交易、赚收益、借贷的数字资产平台。

And as a reminder, our podcast today is free and that would not be possible without our wonderful partners at Nexo, the digital asset platform that lets you trade, earn, and borrow all in one place.

所以后面节目里记得留意他们的更多信息。

So keep an ear out for more information on them later in the episode.

不过现在，欢迎来到Milk Road Crypto。

But for now, welcome to Milk Road Crypto.

Max、Greg，两位好，你们今天怎么样？

Max, Greg, gentlemen, how are you today?

挺好的，John。

Doing well, John.

很高兴见到你。

Good to see you.

我挺好的。

I'm doing well.

谢谢你邀请我来，John。

Thanks for having me, John.

能请到你们两位我很高兴。

Well, I'm glad to have you guys.

各位，在我们深入聊这个新公告、这个新合作——或者说这个正在进行中的合作里的新协议之前，请你们各自用几句话介绍一下自己在各自公司的角色，以及你们在这个已公布的合作中的参与情况。

Gentlemen, before we dive into this new announcement, this new partnership or new, I guess, agreement in the ongoing partnership, tell me a couple sentences each about your roles at your respective firms and your involvement in the partnership that's been announced.

Max，先从你开始吧。

Max, let's start with you.

很乐意。

Happy to.

我叫Max Bareiss，是Galaxy的借贷业务负责人。

So Max Bareiss, I'm the head of lending at Galaxy.

你刚才已经提到了，不过我在这里已经快五年了，在加密行业里，这时间已经够你经历好几轮周期了。

You already mentioned that, but I've been here for almost five years now, which in crypto, you're now have seen multiple cycles.

在Galaxy这段时间真是挺不错的。

It's been a great time to be at Galaxy.

我们在借贷这块做了不少不同的业务。

We run a number of different things in terms of the lending book here.

我们一直是Sky生态系统的老用户，用得很深入。

We've been long standing power users of the Sky ecosystem.

非常期待聊聊我们跟Sky生态系统里好几个团队正在合作的一些事情，我们是怎么合作的，然后再讲讲现在在Sky这个层面上，跟刚加入的Greg和John一起在做些什么。

Really excited to talk about some of the things that we have going on with a number of the different teams within the Sky ecosystem, how we've been able to partner, and then talk about what we're doing at the actual Sky level now with Greg and John who have recently joined.

把这段合作关系正式确定下来，其实早就该做了，非常高兴能在这里宣布这件事。

This has been long overdue in terms of us codifying this partnership and really happy to make that announcement here.

太好了。

Awesome.

Greg，你呢？

And Greg, yourself?

好的。

Sure.

跟Max不一样，我在Sky差不多待了五个月，不是五年，但我是全球资本市场负责人。

Unlike Max, I've been at Sky for almost five months, not five years, but global head of capital markets.

这个角色其实挺多面的，主要是跟我们的风险团队一起，专注于资产负债管理，平衡流动性的需求和现有的投资。

Really, that's multifaceted role that concentrates on working alongside our risk team to really focus on asset liability management for the balance sheet, and really kind of balancing our, you know, requirements around liquidity with our current kind of investments.

所以一方面要跟各个代理紧密合作，看他们自己的配置，但从组合层面来看，要把风险敞口归类，确保协议在最优状态下运行，流动性充足，同时也在优化sUSDS用户的收益和回报。

And so there's a part of certainly working closely with the various agents who are looking at their own allocations, but looking at that from a portfolio level, you know, kind of grouping exposures together and and ensuring that the the protocol is operating at an optimal level where liquidity is there, but we're also optimizing, the yield and the return that we're getting for for sUSDS users.

明白了。

Gotcha.

好的。

Okay.

在我们深入聊Galaxy和Sky的长期合作之前，先聊聊上周公布的消息，你觉得大家应该关注哪些重点？

So before we dive in a little bit more to the ongoing relationship between Galaxy and Sky, let's just talk a bit about what was announced last week and what you think people should know about some of these headlines.

Greg，先从你开始吧。

Greg, let's start with you on this one.

跟我说说公布了什么，以及有哪些要点。

Talk me through what's been announced and and what the takeaways are here.

所以最主要的头条消息，我觉得就是Galaxy从他们的资产负债表里拿出了1亿美元配置到sUSDS，这是Sky协议发行的储蓄代币。

So so the major kind of headline announcement, I would say, was the $100,000,000 allocation from Galaxy and their their balance sheet to sUSDS, which is our our savings, token that's issued by the Sky protocol.

这显然是最引人注目的数字，但除此之外还有购买Sky代币，也就是协议的治理代币，同时还接受sUSDS作为抵押品。

That was obviously the the headline number, but you also have, a purchase of Sky token, which is the the governance token for the protocol in addition to accepting sUSDS as collateral.

很明显，这里的突破点在于他们自己先做了承销，这个Max可以跟你详细说，就是让他们的客户也能把sUSDS作为借贷部门的合格抵押品来使用。

Obviously, the the unlock there was having underwritten it themselves, which Max can can talk to you about making it available to their their clients as acceptable, you know, collateral for the lending desk.

我可以在这一点上补充一下。

I I can piggyback on that.

所以我觉得最重要的是，而且这可能会顺带回答你本来要问的下一个问题，但从我的角度来看，1亿美元的sUSDS更多是一种正式确认。

So I I think more than anything, and this will probably bleed into what was gonna be your next question anyway, but from my standpoint, a $100,000,000 of sUSDS is more of a codification than anything else.

我们长期以来一直是Sky生态的重度用户。

We've been power users of the Sky ecosystem for a very long time.

我在Galaxy任职期间，资产负债表上很多次都持有过sUSDS，所以这次更多只是一个正式化的动作。

We had sUSDS on the balance sheet many times throughout my time here at Galaxy, and so this is more of just a formalization.

把1亿美元放到资产负债表上，对我们来说基本上就是常规业务操作。

Putting a $100,000,000 on the balance sheet is sort of regular way course of business for us.

对我们来说，这是一种非常好的方式，可以有效地对数字资产资产负债表进行资金管理。

It's a really good way for us to effectively do treasury management for the digital asset balance sheet.

有很多不同的方式，既能让你增加sUSDS的头寸，又能在周末使用它，比如说，当客户有大额资金流入的时候。

There's a number of different things that allow you to both put on additional sUSDS positions and then also utilize it on a weekend, for example, when you have clients coming in for large flow.

而且不像国债或者传统的货币市场基金，我不需要等到周一早上才能退出这个头寸。

And unlike something like a treasury bill or even a traditional money market fund, I don't have to wait until Monday morning to get out of that position.

如果我这边交易部门、衍生品部门，甚至贷款业务来了一笔大单，我有能力把这个头寸在链上转移，从而获得我需要的流动性，继续支持Galaxy全天候不间断的业务运转。

And if I have a large ticket that comes in from the trading side of things or the derivative side of things or even a loan, I have the ability to move that position onchain and be able to get myself the liquidity I need to continue to facilitate the business that continuously flows to Galaxy twenty fourseven.

周末往往是最忙的时候，我知道有时候挺有意思的，但这就是我们选择的行业。

Seems like the weekends are oftentimes the busiest, which I know can be fun from time to time, but that's that's the business we chose to be in.

Max，我想再多了解一下这方面的情况。

Max, I I wanna ask a little bit more about this.

Galaxy的客户现在可以用sUSDS作为抵押来申请Galaxy的贷款，同时还能一直赚取储蓄利率。

Clients of Galaxy can now post sUSDS against a Galaxy loan, and they can continue earning the savings rate the whole time.

请解释一下这对Galaxy的借贷业务意味着什么，以及作为加密和数字资产投资者、可能是这些产品潜在用户的人，应该了解些什么。

Explain a little bit about what this unlocks for the the lending business at Galaxy and, you know, what people should know about this as investors in in crypto and digital assets who might be, you know, potential users of some of these products.

好，我先从承销流程说起。

Yeah, I'll start with the underwriting process.

我觉得对于任何我们视为抵押品的资产类型，我们都会去看这两种资产之间的相关性。

I think for anything that we look at as a collateral type, we're always looking at the correlation between the two different assets.

所以当人们把sUSDS作为抵押物存进来的时候，他们大概率是在借某种加密代币。

And so when people are posting sUSDS as a collateral object, they're likely borrowing some kind of crypto token.

人们这么做的原因有很多。

There's a number of reasons people would do that.

一个主要的例子可能是风投有一笔锁仓的头寸想要对冲，或者如果某个人能拿到代币，就可以做一些资金费率的套利。

One of the main examples could be VC has a lock position they're trying to hedge, there's some sort of funding rate arbitrage that somebody can do if they have access to the token.

在承销这块，我们会看代币的流动性，也会看进出这个代币的操作机制，这样我们就能深入了解，万一有人触发追加保证金或者没补上保证金，我们怎么把风险头寸交易出去。

On the underwriting side of things, we're looking at the liquidity of the token, we're looking at the operational mechanics of going in and out of the token, so that we have a deep understanding of how can we trade out of our risk in the event that somebody goes into a margin call or missed margin call.

然后我们要能及时退出那个头寸，同时确保不会以某种方式搅动市场，给相关资产或者交易对带来不必要的风险。我们有二十四小时的风险保证金期，在这期间我们会根据面对的对手方做分析，这让我们处于一个非常好的风险管理位置，能够接受这种抵押品，同时也能基于它提供杠杆。

And then we have the ability to get out of that position in a timely manner to make sure we're also not moving the market in a way where it puts undue risk on whatever the assets may be or the pair may be, where we have that twenty four hour margin period of risk where we're doing the analysis based on the counterparty we're facing, and that puts us in a really good risk management position to be able to accept that as collateral and then also provide the leverage against it.

正式发布这个消息对我们来说非常合理，而且这也让我们的客户在持有现金头寸期间，在做任何交易的同时，还能继续赚取收益。

And it just makes a lot of sense for us to formalize this announcement, but it also allows our clients to continue to earn yield on their their cash position really in the interim while they're putting on whatever the trade may be.

我先暂停一下，提醒大家一句，加密货币的牛市又回来了。

So I'm gonna pause for a quick second to remind you all that the crypto bull market is back.

我一直在把资金投进那些我觉得这轮牛市里会有很好表现的山寨币。

I have been deploying capital into altcoins that I think are gonna do very well, this bull market.

有些币从我进场到现在已经涨了两倍多了。

Some of them are already up over two x from where I entered.

所以如果你想看看我的投资组合里有什么、我的关注列表上有什么，还能在Discord上随时找我提问，一天二十四小时都行，那就赶紧加入Milk Road Pro吧。

So if you wanna see what's in my portfolio, what's on my watch list, and have access to me in Discord to ask questions twenty four hours a day, join Milk Road Pro now.

链接就在简介里。

The link is in the description.

只要一美元。

It's just a dollar.

咱们那儿见。

I'll see you there.

好。

K.

明白了。

Gotcha.

Greg，我想问你一个关于 sUSDS 抵押资产方面的问题。

Greg, I wanna ask you a question about the the collateral asset aspect of sUSDS.

我听你说过，在传统金融里用国债做抵押是很正常的事，而且你一直在想办法让 sUSDS 被大家看作是链上的国债。

I've heard you say that pledging treasuries as collaterals is normal in TradFi and that you're you're trying to angle for sUSDS to be seen as sort of the onchain Treasury bill.

跟我聊聊这方面吧，还有 Sky 为了把这么一个高质量的抵押资产推向市场，都做了哪些努力。

Talk to me a little bit about that and what has gone into Sky's efforts to bring to market such a high quality, you know, collateral asset here.

这个嘛，你可以去问问 Max，关于不同形式的抵押品。

I mean, ask, you know, Max, about different forms of collateral.

我……

I...

我相信 Galaxy，就像任何一个加密圈的人看到这个公告一样，都会觉得，哦，又多了一个新的抵押资产。

I'm sure Galaxy, like any any crypto native person who sees this announcement is like, okay, a new collateral asset.

但是……

But the...

你知道，接受一个高波动性的资产，跟比如短期国债比起来，它们的波动率特征完全不一样。

You know, accepting a high vol asset compared to, like, even a a t bill, where they have vastly different vol profiles.

所以这就是为什么你可以借出去，Max的团队可以以更高的贷款价值比借给某些资产，对另一些则用更低的比率，用不同的方式来看待。

And so that's why you can lend it Max's team can lend it at higher LTVs for some, lower for others, and kind of view that in a different way.

所以sUSDS就属于这种超低波动的类别，对吧，这样借款人就能拿到更有吸引力的贷款价值比。

And so sUSDS fits into this like super low vol kind of bucket, right, which allows for more attractive LTVs for borrowers.

同时，它也是一种能产生收益的资本，对吧，资产在Galaxy托管期间还能产生收益，可能是通过他们的某个托管合作伙伴，Galaxy的仓储设施、Grove的仓储设施就是这么搭建的，这个我们当然可以细聊。

And at the same time, it's also productive capital, right, where they're generating yield while the asset remains within custody at Galaxy through perhaps one of their custodial partners, which is how the Galaxy warehouse, Grove warehouse facility was set up, which we can, of course, get into.

但是，对，我觉得关键就是，把能产生收益的资产拿出来，它们有一个……

But, yeah, I I think it's all about, you know, bringing productive assets to the table that have a...

一个有吸引力的波动率特征，让它们成为有吸引力的抵押资产。

An attractive volatility profile and, make them make them attractive collateral assets.

所以，对，短期国债的出现，我觉得是第一次……

So, yeah, the advent of of t bills was I think the first...

你知道，链上短期国债，那真的是我们第一次在DeFi里看到这种东西。

You know, the t bills onchain was was really the first time that we saw that within within DeFi.

我觉得，像Ondo很早就入场了，还有Midas这些，他们都是各种T bill代币的发行方，你知道，这在链上借贷市场里是一个非常明显的第一波应用场景。

I think, know, having been at on very early and Midas, etcetera, who are all issuers of some variant of a T bill token, you know, that was a very obvious first mover type of use case through, you know, through onchain lending markets.

也就是从那时候开始，你看到第一批用户被吸引过来，是因为他们可以用这些资产来抵押，而不是只能用ETH、质押ETH或者比特币。

And and that's where I think you you saw the first set of users attracted by assets like pledging collateral other than, let's say, ETH or staked ETH or or Bitcoin.

而且这个领域还在持续增长，尤其是考虑到传统金融机构也开始上链了。

And and that continues to be an area of growth, especially when you factor in, you know, traditional financial firms coming on chain.

这是……

This is...

这会成为其中一个触发因素……

This will be one of the the the triggers that...

你知道，因为他们看到了……

You know, because they see the...

他们……

They...

我觉得他们看到了这两个世界是怎么碰撞在一起的，因为这本质上就是同一种资产，或者说是类似资产的变体。

I I think they see how the the two worlds are colliding because it's it's effectively the same asset or a variant of a similar asset.

好的。

Sure.

行。

Okay.

那我们就来聊聊这两个世界碰撞的话题。

So let's talk a little bit about the two worlds colliding.

显然，这不是Galaxy和Sky第一次合作了。

Obviously, this is not the first thing that Galaxy and Sky have done together.

Greg，从你在Sky的角度，给我讲讲这段合作的历史，然后从机构进入DeFi的角度来谈谈这一切。

Greg, walk me through a little bit of the history of the partnership here from your perspective at Sky, and just talk to me about all this through the perspective of institutions coming to DeFi.

我当然希望Sky以外的人觉得我是个什么天才交易高手，但事实是这样的。

I I would love for people outside of Sky to think that I'm some, like, genius dealmaker, but here's the truth.

事实是，在我来之前，很多人已经做了大量的基础工作。

The truth is that a lot of people laid a lot of groundwork before I got here.

再说一遍，我来这里才五个月。

Again, I've been here for five months.

这些人里有很多我早就认识了。

I've known a lot of these people for a while.

不过，是的，我不会把他们的功劳算在自己头上。

But, yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna take credit for for their work.

所以说，这大部分功劳要归给Growth和他们的团队，还有Mark和Kevin，他们跟Galaxy的Max团队一起搭建了一个CLO，也就是第一个代币化的CLO。

And so with that being said, I give a lot of credit to Growth and and the team there, and Mark and Kevin, for having structured a CLO, the first tokenized CLO alongside Max's team at Galaxy.

Sky当时参与了……

Sky was in...

Sky通过Gro成为了这个结构里的第一个出资方。

Sky via Gro was the first allocation into that structure.

我记得是五千万美元的配置，而且里面用的很多信用结构条款，跟现实世界里类似结构里的条款是一样的。

I believe it was a $50,000,000 allocation, with, I would say, a lot of the same kind of credit structuring tenants that are available in similar structures in the real world.

那段经历Max应该能讲得更细一些。

And so Max could probably talk a little bit about that time.

不过，是的，在那之后，Galaxy和Sky的仓库就推向市场了。

But, yeah, I mean, on the backside of that, right, we had the Galaxy-Sky warehouse come to market.

那显然是一笔更大的配置，我觉得那个CLO在某种意义上可能更像是一笔试水交易。

That was obviously a larger allocation with, I think, the CLO being maybe a bit of a test trade in a sense.

我的意思是，那是真实的收益，正规的结构设计，还有那笔优先损失资本，让Sky能够投入到这个结构里去。

I mean, it was real yield, proper structuring, the first loss capital there available for Sky to make that investment into the structure.

但没错，那个仓库是一个5亿美元的单子，Galaxy然后向他们的借款人发放超额抵押贷款，那个仓库有非常非常结构化和成文的条款，比如抵押品构成限制、单一债务人集中度限制，还有非常严格的清算门槛和LTV之类的东西，另外还有一些法律保护。

But yeah, the warehouse was a $500,000,000 ticket whereby Galaxy then originates over collateralized loans to their borrowers with very, very kind of structured and codified elements to that warehouse where you have things like collateral composition limits and single obligor concentration limits and, you know, very firm liquidation thresholds and LTVs and things of that nature in addition to certain legal protections as well.

所以当你把所有这些放在一起看，再加上Galaxy跟Spark的合作，还有Max你刚才讲到的Galaxy那一段很长的历史，跟Sky生态算是有点间接的交集，我之前想说的是，对我来说，把所有这些拼在一起，跟我们的John一起促成这笔交易——他负责商务拓展——在这方面其实挺容易的，因为你们本来就已经在很多不同的地方在合作了。

So when you look at all these things in addition to Galaxy working with Spark and and just Max, you know, having spoken to the kind of the long history of of Galaxy, you know, kinda tangentially touching the Sky ecosystem, what I was getting to earlier was that for me, putting all those pieces together and helping construct this deal with John on our side who runs BizDev, it was kind of easy in that respect because you were already working together in so many different places.

而且你知道，这些公司确实在很多不同的方面都在真正地合作。

And, you know, the firms were, were really working together in in a lot of different ways.

好。

K.

所以这里面有很多环节，也有很多历史。

So there's a lot of pieces to this, a lot of history.

Max，我很想听听你对这件事的看法，还有跟Sky这段关系是怎么一步步发展过来的，以及我们现在处在什么位置。

Max, I'd love to hear your perspective on this and the developing relationship with Sky over time and and and where we are today.

非常乐意详细聊聊这个。

Very happy to to go into detail there.

我们用Sky这个生态系统已经用了很久了。

We've used the the Sky ecosystem for a very long time.

其实早在Grove之前，我们就已经是Spark和Sparklend的长期用户了。

I think even before Grove, we've been a user of Spark and Sparklend for for a very long time.

他们是我们选中的少数几个协议之一，被纳入了我们的Galaxy链上融资利率，简称Gopher，这个名字是借了Sofer的梗。

They were one of the select number of protocols that we added to our Galaxy onchain financing rate, Gopher for short, which is a play on Sofer.

这对我们来说非常合理，而且我们也很早就把它当作跟Sky生态系统互动的一个切入点。

That made a ton of sense for us, and we've also used that as our way of engaging with the Sky ecosystem very early on.

我觉得有一点值得说一下，可能大部分人都知道，Sky就是原来的Maker DAO，它是最古老的链上协议，甚至可能就是最老的那个。

I think worth stating, I think most people know this, but Sky, which was legacy maker DAO, is the oldest, if not the absolute oldest onchain protocol.

所以这里面有非常多的历史积淀。

And so there's a ton of history there.

它是目前经过最多实践检验的链上协议之一。

It is one of the most tried and tested onchain protocols out there.

所以我们跟DeFi打交道的方式里，有一个很重要的因素，就是时间——时间是我们信任一个链上协议的关键。说到经得起时间考验，没有比它更老的协议了，而且正因为存在了这么久，它也经历了大量的渗透测试。

And so there's an element to the way that we engage with DeFi where time is a component in terms of our trust for an onchain protocol, and there's no older protocol out there when you talk about the time test where that has a ton of pentesting as well just because it's been out there for so long.

从那以后，我们就开始跟Grove团队走得更近了。

Since then, we started working closer with the Grove team.

去年年底我们做了Arch Galaxy Grove的CLO，然后顺理成章地往下延伸——我们当时为那笔链上交易做了交易文件，里面包含了代币化的部分，接着我们就做了下一步：Galaxy，你们有一块很大的机构借贷业务。

We did the Arch Galaxy Grove CLO at the end of last year, and then the natural extension was we have these deal docs that we did for that onchain transaction where we did the tokenization component, and then we just did the next iteration, which was, Galaxy, you have a large institutional lending business.

那我们为什么不搞一个资金池，把其中一部分资产先存进去呢？

Why don't we create a facility where we can warehouse some of that?

这完全就是水到渠成的事。

And it just was a very natural progression.

我觉得Grove团队真的非常有实力，不管是结构设计还是信贷背景都很强。这里面投入了大量有创意的时间精力，也付出了很多努力，不光是我自己、Griffin、Tidy和我的团队花了大量时间跟Grove团队一起打磨，还有Grove那边的Keith和Sam，大家一起才把这个事情真正落地。

I think that the actual Grove team is incredibly well talented in terms of their structuring, their credit backgrounds, and there was a lot of really creative time effort, a lot of hard work that was done not only by myself, Griffin, Tidy, and my team spent a ton of time with the with the Grove team, but then also, Keith and Sam over at the Grove team to get that actually stood up.

非常感谢你提供的这些背景信息。

I really appreciate the context on this.

听起来你们是……

It sounds like you guys are...

你……

You...

你说的这些术语太多了，而且……

You're talking in a lot of jargon, and it...

很明显，你们俩合作得非常深入。

It's clear to me that you guys are are deep in the weeds working with each other.

我觉得这真的很让人振奋，因为很明显你们之间有很多交流，这里面涉及的事情也很多。

And I think that's really encouraging because there's there's clearly a lot of conversation going on, a lot of moving parts to all of this.

Max，我想听你详细说说，Galaxy 决定购买 Sky 代币是出于什么考虑，因为要接入 sUSDS 其实并不需要买这些代币，但这确实像是对 Sky 协议投下了一张强有力的信任票。

Max, I'd like to hear you expand on the decision that Galaxy made to purchase Sky tokens because that wasn't necessary to access sUSDS, but it does seem to be a very strong vote of confidence in the Sky protocol.

跟我聊聊这个决定，以及当时是怎么考虑的。

Talk to me about that decision and and what went into that.

在谈论资产负债表和方向性头寸的时候，我确实得特别小心，尤其是在季度中间。

I definitely need to be careful in terms of talking about balance sheet and directional positions, especially inter quarter.

我觉得，就像我刚才说的，这是对合作关系的一种正式确认。

I think it was, like I said, a codification of the partnership.

我觉得从我们的角度来看，我们想表达一种信心。

I think that from our standpoint, we wanted to show a vote of confidence.

我们想表明我们是一个好的合作伙伴。

We wanted to show that we are a good partner.

具体金额没有披露，我觉得sUSDS作为一种储蓄代币，在公告里提一下数字会比较容易一些。

Undisclosed amount, I think the sUSDS as a savings token, talking about the number in the announcement was a little bit easier.

但从我们的角度来说，我们看好Sky团队在做的事情，我们之间有着深厚的合作关系，所以这整体上就是对我们在做的一切的一个确认，感觉挺合理的。

But from our standpoint, we like what the Sky team's doing, we have a deep rooted partnership there, and so it just kinda made sense as, like, an overall codification of everything that we're doing together.

明白了。

Gotcha.

就是大方向上的一致。

And just general alignment.

Greg，我想问你一个关于这个的问题。

Greg, I'd like to ask you a question about this.

我们的受众主要是数字资产投资者，我们对代币这类东西很感兴趣。

Our audience are primarily, you know, digital asset investors, and we're interested in things like tokens.

Sky迎来了有史以来最好的季度之一。

Sky had one of its best quarters ever.

上个季度收入达到了一亿美元。

It was a $100,000,000 of revenue last quarter.

我看了你们那季度的财报，真的非常亮眼。

I watched your your quarterly report on that, and it was really impressive.

SUSDS的供应量同比增长超过了150%。

SUSDS supply is up over a 150% year over year.

跟我聊聊这个增长吧，还有你对Sky生态系统发展轨迹的看法，以及这个代币在其中扮演的角色。

Talk to me about the growth and just, like, what you're seeing in terms of the the trajectory for the Sky ecosystem and where the token fits into all of that.

我觉得这很大程度上是在承接……

I I think it's it's largely kind of taking on the...

也就是说，sUSDS很大程度上是在承接市场的风险回报动态。

Meaning sUSDS is largely taking on the the risk return, dynamics of of the market.

所以当比特币和其他风险资产开始上涨的时候，你会看到资金从sUSDS流出，美元转向链上其他地方。

So when when, you know, Bitcoin and other risk on assets start to start to pump, you'll see, an exit from sUSDS and dollars moving to, you know, to other places on chain.

有时候他们会把钱挪到那些有短期高收益激励项目的地方，比如新链上线之类的。

And and sometimes they'll move to, you know, to to places that have some juicy short term incentive program or something like that for some new chain launch, etcetera.

我们的用户知道把钱放在哪里安全，但同时也知道怎么在有机会的时候去获取收益。

Like our users know where to store their money and to keep it safe, but then they know how to obviously extract value when it appears.

可能是通过现货市场，或者各种福利，或者别的什么方式，比如挖矿之类的。

I mean, that could be through spot markets or perks or whatever they're doing, right, farming, etcetera.

但说实话，我来了这段时间，最大的感受就是看到那些资产又回流了。

But yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing for me in the short time that I've been here is seeing those assets come back, right?

就是把sUSDS当成一个类似活期账户或者储蓄账户来用，大家知道钱放在里面是安全的。

So kind of using sUSDS as almost like a checking or a savings account of sorts where, you know, the money is is understood to be safe.

就跟银行差不多。

It's akin to a bank.

我不是说完全等同于银行，但我想说的是，大家知道自己的钱是安全的，能看到抵押率水平。

I'm not kind of likening it to that, but I would say where people know that their money is safe, you know, they see the level level of collateralization.

他们能看到我们采用了类似巴塞尔III的风险管理标准。

They see that we've adopted Basel III like attributes to risk management.

我的意思是，Sky内部有不同层级的风险资本，我们通过盈余来推动协议增长，把这些钱投进去……

And so what I mean by that is that we have various levels of of kind of risk capital within Sky and we use the growth of the protocol via surplus to contribute to that to that...

投到那些风险缓冲里。

To those risk buffers.

也就是说，在代理层面，每个代理都有一定数量的盈余，用来建立第一损失资本的风险缓冲。

And so what I mean is that at the agent level, each agent has a respective amount of surplus that they use to create a risk buffer of first loss capital.

然后在Sky层面，也就是协议层面，我们也有一个缓冲。

And then at the Sky level, at the protocol level, we also have a buffer.

所以加起来，我们有一亿多美元的风险资本。

And so in totality, we have over $100,000,000 of risk capital.

所以就算投资组合里某一部分出现了亏损——我们有一些私人信贷的敞口，量很小，或者还有其他类型的资产。

And so even if there was a loss in one of the constituent parts of the portfolio and we have exposure to some private credit or very small amount or some other types of assets.

如果真的出现亏损，那首先会由代理层面承担，动用他们的第一损失资本。

If we were to ever take a loss, that would first hit the agent at the agent level and their first loss capital.

所以基本上不会波及到协议层面的第一损失，也就是说，只有到了那一步，USDS用户才可能真正意识到出了什么事。

And so it probably would never even cascade to the protocol level first loss, at which point, right, that is only the point if that superseded that the actual USDS user would even realize that anything happened per se.

还好，因为我们在日常中采用并执行的风险管理，我们还没有遇到过那类事件。

And so thankfully, we haven't had those types of of incidents because of of the risk management that we that we use and that we employ on a daily basis.

但我觉得，就像Max说的，这恰恰说明Sky已经存在十年了。

But it's just, I think, a sign to Max's point of Sky has been here for ten years.

它是以太坊上最老的协议。

It's the oldest protocol on Ethereum.

它经过了反复的考验和验证，经历了各种市场状况，包括十十事件以及加密历史上发生过的其他事件，还有宏观经济方面的考验。

It is tried and tested and proven through every single market condition through the likes of ten ten and and other types of events that have happened over the course of of of crypto history and and in macro as well.

所以，是的，我觉得情况就是这样

So, yeah, I think it's a case where

你肯定能证明风险管理通过了Grove CLO的考验。

You definitely attest to the risk management going through the Grove CLO.

他们非常细致和 thorough，向他们致敬。

They're super detailed and thorough and hat tip to to them.

我还觉得，也许值得聊一聊Sky整体的资产负债表。

I also think it's worth maybe talking about just the Sky overall balance sheet.

它有多大？

How large is it?

流动性状况怎么样？

What is the liquidity profile?

你怎么看流动性这个问题？

How do you think about liquidity?

我觉得这个话题挺值得聊一聊的。

I think that that's an interesting thing to talk about.

还有就是，那些进入Sky生态系统的存款，资金的粘性怎么样。

And then also the stickiness of capital across some of the deposits that have gone into the Sky ecosystem.

当然。

Absolutely.

当然。

Absolutely.

那我现在就实时打开我的仪表盘，我的Sky仪表盘，然后切到流动性这个标签页，目前我们的盈余是四十一亿三千万美元……

So I am actually going to pull up my my dashboard here, my Sky dashboard in real time and go to, our liquidity tab here where we have a, a surplus right now of $4,130,000,000 of...

这是存放在Coinbase合格托管人那里的无负担USDC。

This is this is unencumbered USDC held in a qualified custodian at Coinbase.

所以实际上，这就是你最重要的流动性，可以……

So effectively, this is your kind of top line liquidity that's avail...

可以用于原子赎回。

Available for atomic redemption.

所以当Max，借贷部门的主管，在评估把sUSDS作为抵押品来承销的时候，他当时说的是周末流动性的可用性——就是当世界领导人采取某些行动，可能不仅对加密货币、还对宏观市场产生连锁反应的时候，对吧？

So when Max, the head of a lending desk, is looking at underwriting sUSDS as collateral, right, he was talking about the availability of liquidity over a weekend when world leaders choose to take certain actions that may have cascading effects to not only crypto, but also macro markets, right?

这就是为什么我们看到Hyper Liquid变得这么突出，因为像原油交易员这样的人在周末没法进入原油市场。

And this is why we've seen hyper liquid becomes so prominent because you have the likes of crude traders who are unable to access crude markets on the weekend.

但Hyper Liquid上的用户可以在周末交易WTI原油期货的等价物。

But users on hyper liquid trading WTI WTI future equivalents.

我刚才有点在引导证人了。

I was kind of leading the witness there.

这就回到了我之前说的，Sky资产负债表的资产负债结构，正是让sUSDS成为Galaxy一个有吸引力的资产负债表资产的原因之一。

That kind of goes back to something I was talking about earlier, where the asset liability composition of the Sky balance sheet is one of the things that makes sUSDS an attractive balance sheet asset for Galaxy.

这样我们就能做类似资产负债匹配的操作，就是出去找一笔一年期的借款。

It allows for us to do something like a asset liability matching exercise where we can go out and we can go source a one year borrow.

一般来说，这种一年期的借款你得付期限溢价。

And so you normally have to pay term premium for something like that.

所以如果我付的是SOFR加200个基点，那我就可以马上把这笔钱放进储蓄代币里，来降低我的持有成本。

So if I'm paying 200 basis points over SOFR, I can then look to reduce my carry by immediately putting it into a savings token.

那现在我就持有sUSDS，但过两周，如果有人来做三个月或六个月的借款，我就可以把这部分拿出来，再借出去。

So now I'm holding sUSDS, but then in two weeks, have somebody who comes in for a three month or a six month borrow, I can then take that down and then use that to then lend it out.

我觉得这可能是——我这么说可能有点替Greg发言了，如果我说错了请纠正我——但我认为这就是Sky生态希望交易公司利用sUSDS市场的方式，因为这样能帮他们做大整个生态。

So I think that's like, I'm probably gonna put words in Greg's mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's how the Sky ecosystem wants trading firms to utilize the sUSDS market, because that allows for them to grow the ecosystem.

但对数字资产交易公司来说，这也是一种非常审慎的方式来考虑自己的资产负债结构，确保自己不会陷入被动，就像我们在2021和2022年看到的那样——大家有一堆开放期限的借款，借出去的是有期限的，结果不得不暂停提款。

But it's also a really prudent way for digital asset trading firms to think about their asset liability composition to make sure that they're in a position to not get caught wrong way, which is what we saw in 2021 and 2022, where people had a bunch of open term borrows, they were lending out on term, and then they had to pause withdrawals.

完全同意，Max。

A 100%, Max.

这……

That's...

这就是我们的看法。

That is how we look at it.

我的意思是，我觉得我们在做资产负债管理这方面，是非常保守的。

I mean, I think we're extremely conservative with the way that we, you know, pursue ALM.

如果你登录 skyeco.blockanalytic.com，就能看到那个仪表盘，还有流动性瀑布图，这些就是指导这类操作的依据。

And if you log on to skyeco.blockanalytic.com, you'll be able to see the dashboard and the the liquidity waterfall that informs, right, these types of of activities.

举个例子，假设当前配置是96.3亿美元，你能看到其中89亿美元可以在一周内赎回。

So for example, you'll see that of, let's say, 9,630,000,000 in current allocations, dollars 8,900,000,000 of that can be redeemed within a week.

然后你可以细致地看到在一天、三天、一周的时间窗口内，这些敞口是怎么累加到那个数字的。

And then you can granularly see within a one day window, a three day window, a one week window, how those exposures kind of add up to that amount.

我们就是这样来构建这个账本的。

And that's the way that we construct the book.

也正是这一点，让像Galaxy这样机构级别的公司有信心真正去使用sUSDS，不仅用在它们自己的资产负债表上，也把它作为可接受的……

And that's what gives the likes of of someone as institutional as Galaxy kind of the the confidence to really use sUSDS not only in their own balance sheet, but also as, acceptable...

可接受的抵押品，用在它们的借贷业务里。

Accepted collateral within their lending business.

你知道，加密货币有个挺奇怪的地方，就是你玩得越久，账户就越多。

You know, one of the weird things about crypto is that the longer you're in it, the more accounts you seem to end up with.

在一个地方买，在另一个地方交易，又在别的地方赚收益。

You buy in one place, trade somewhere else, earn yield somewhere else.

而当你真的需要资金的时候，你不得不卖掉一些你本来想留着的东西。

And if you actually need capital, you end up having to sell something that you probably wanted to keep.

这就是为什么我们Milk Road要和Nexo合作。

That's why we at Milk Road are partnering with Nexo.

他们把所有这些事都整合到一个账户里。

These guys keep the whole thing under one account.

你可以买币、交易、用你持有的资产赚利息，甚至还能拿你的资金做抵押借款，不用卖掉。全都在一个地方，一个账户，全在Nexo上。

You can buy, trade crypto, earn interest on what you already hold, and even borrow against your capital without having to sell All in one spot, all in one account, all on Nexo.

所以如果你需要流动性但又不想放弃你的仓位，或者你已经持有加密货币了，想让它发挥更大的作用，我觉得Nexo值得你花时间了解一下。

So if you need liquidity but you don't wanna give up your position or you're already holding crypto and you wanna be able to do more with it, I think Nexo is worth your time.

我们很喜欢和他们合作。

We love working with them.

我觉得你也会喜欢。

I think you will too.

跟他们说，是Milk Road介绍你来的。

Tell them Milk Road sent you.

我之所以特别高兴能把你们两位请到一起，就是想让大家能有个对话。

This is one of the reasons why I was so excited to get both of you on together is to just let you all have a dialogue.

所以我很高兴我们聊了这些，也希望听众能理解这里说的很多内容，以及这一切的重要意义。

So I am glad we went through that, and I hope the audience understands a lot of of what's being said here and the significance of all this.

我想聊聊机构DeFi的未来，以及机构资本进入DeFi这件事。

I wanna talk about the future of institutional DeFi and institutional capital coming to DeFi.

Max，我听你说过，机构想要链上信贷，但他们不愿意去搭建获取它的基础设施。

Max, I've heard you say that institutions want onchain credit, but they don't wanna build the infrastructure to access it.

你再跟我多讲讲这话是什么意思，机构最终开始大规模用他们的资金进入DeFi会是什么样子，以及你觉得这件事会怎么真正发生。

Talk to me a little bit more about what you mean by that, and what does it look like for institutions to finally start accessing DeFi with with their capital in size, and and how you see that starting to actually happen here.

对，我在聊gopher那个产品的时候确实说过这话。

So I definitely said that when I was talking about the gopher product.

我这么说的意思是，有很多人接触过加密货币，但从……这个过程中会有很多复杂的地方。

So what I mean by that is there's a lot of people who have engaged with crypto, and there's a complexity when you go from...

我拿比特币举个例子。

I'll use Bitcoin as an example.

你手里有比特币。

You take your Bitcoin.

你想用比特币加杠杆。

You wanna get leverage on Bitcoin.

你听说过那些很棒的链上借贷机会，但根本不知道怎么把比特币变成封装比特币、CBBTC，或者某个平台上能用的资产。

You've heard of these amazing onchain borrowing opportunities, but they have no idea how to turn Bitcoin into wrap Bitcoin, CBBTC, or usable asset on some

这些

of these

协议上的。

protocols.

Galaxy能做的就是帮你把DeFi有时候带来的那些复杂操作给隐藏掉。

What Galaxy can do is they can obfuscate away the complexities that sometimes are associated with DeFi.

你可以直接把比特币发给我们，我们帮你包装好，然后把它放到链上协议里去。

You can post the Bitcoin directly to us, we can wrap it on your behalf, we can then take that and we can put it onto the onchain protocol.

大多数链上协议，其实我觉得所有我们为Gopher对接的链上协议，都有自动清算机制。Greg之前提到过10.10，还有今年早些时候的2月5号，当时出现了大规模的清算级别回撤，给链上活动的自动清算环节带来了很大压力，这就产生了市场风险，因为你可能在不知不觉中就被自动去杠杆了。

Most of the onchain protocols, I actually think all of the onchain protocols that we engage with for Gopher have auto liquidation, and so Greg had mentioned ten point one zero, also February 5 earlier this year, there were mass drawdowns in terms of liquidation levels, etcetera, that put stress on that auto liquidation component for onchain activity, and that creates market risk because you might get auto delevered without realizing it.

Galaxy因为我们的架构设置，有能力在接近清算线的时候给客户发追加保证金的通知，这样我们就能确保帮那些想参与DeFi、但未必有我们这种全天候运营能力的交易对手方处理好这些问题。

Galaxy, just because of the way we're set up, we have the ability to send margin call notifications to people as we're approaching liquidation levels so that we can make sure that we're in a position to handle some of that for the different counterparties that wanna engage with DeFi, but don't have necessarily the 20 fourseven operational capacity that we do.

除此之外，随着前沿AI模型越来越先进，过去十二到十八个月里，我们看到的漏洞攻击事件也越来越多了。

And then in addition to that, I think with frontier AI models getting more sophisticated, we've seen an increased number of exploits that have happened over the last twelve to eighteen months.

所以我觉得，Galaxy在这个生态里还是有一定专业深度的。

And with that, I think that there's a level of Galaxy sophistication within the ecosystem.

我们有一些像Hyper Native预警这样的工具，还能在不同协议之间做闪电贷来转移风险。

We have certain things like hyper native alerting and the ability to flash loan between the different protocols to port over risk.

我们也在不断思考各种降低风险的办法，比如直接跟一些协议对接，做场外借贷。

And we're constantly also thinking about different ways to mitigate the risk such as engaging directly with some of the protocols where we can do off chain borrowing.

这样一来，你的一部分抵押品甚至不需要我们拿去包装，我们凭借深厚的生态合作关系，可以直接找一些协议——有些可能前面已经提到过了——直接从他们那里借，然后把链上看到的利率回传给你。

That way you can have some of your collateral where we don't even need to take it and wrap it, but we have deep ecosystem partnerships where we can go directly to some of the protocols that may or may not have been mentioned already on this and borrow from them directly and pass back through the rates that you're seeing onchain.

Max，谢谢你给我们提供的这些背景信息。

Thank you for that context there, Max.

这里面涉及的东西太多了，我觉得我们的听众可能需要多了解一些DeFi的历史，还有对机构借贷的深入讲解，才能更好地理解这些内容，不过我觉得这里面有很多有价值的信息。

There's so much to this, and I feel like our audience might need a little bit more of, like, a history of DeFi and like deep dive on institutional lending to to grasp some of this, but I think there's a lot of alpha in this.

我自己也得再慢放看一遍才行。

I'm just gonna have to watch it again slower myself.

Greg，我想听听你对这件事的看法。

Greg, I wanna hear what your thoughts are on this.

比如说，你们跟其他机构的交流都是什么样的？

Like, what what are the conversations been like with other institutions?

你在哪些地方看到了对链上信贷的需求？

Where are you seeing demand for onchain credit?

要把更多的机构资金引入DeFi，需要做些什么？

And what does it look like to bring more institutional capital into DeFi?

是的，我觉得我们现在正处在一个转折点上。

Yeah, I mean, I think we're at this kind of inflection point.

我们本来都希望那个明确法案能通过，但现在我们看到SEC和CFTC开始介入了。

We all had hoped that clarity would pass, but now we're seeing kind of the SEC, a CFTC step in.

以前是靠执法来监管，而现在我们看到的，怎么说呢，是出于必要性的监管，或者说预期中的监管，感觉已经到了这个阶段了。

It used to be the case that it was regulation by enforcement, and now we're seeing, you know, regulation or or, anticipated regulation by necessity, it feels like at this point.

你知道吗，我觉得整个行业几乎都觉得，立法这条路好像已经走不通了。

You know, I think the industry almost feels as if, you know, that the legislative route has kind of run out.

那个机会已经没了。

That opportunity has run out.

我不完全这么认为，但我确实觉得大家都有点疲惫了，而且已经把那条路走到底了。

I don't believe that to be the case entirely, but I do think people are just kind of burning out, and and have exhausted that that route.

所以我确实觉得我们会看到SEC和CFTC带来一些非常有意思的创新。

And so I do think we'll see some really interesting innovation from the SEC, CFTC.

我们显然看到了那个创新豁免。

We obviously saw the innovation exemption.

类似这样的东西会促使更多公司上链，他们会看到其中的机会。

Things like that will contribute to more firms coming on chain, and they'll see the opportunity.

我觉得那些真正的传统金融机构还是挺犹豫的。

I think there is still a good deal of hesitance from like actual traditional financial institutions.

我说的不是那些加密圈的老玩家，过去七到十年，我们行业一直把他们当成自己的机构。

I'm not talking about crypto natives that for the last seven to ten years, our industry has said, you know, is our institutions.

我说的是真正的机构、企业、银行，那些手里有大量机构资金可以投出去的大玩家。

I'm talking about true institutions, corporates, banks, real, you know, players who have real institutional capital to deploy.

这种情况确实在发生，但比我们希望的要慢。

That is becoming true, but it's becoming true slower than we'd like to see.

这些讨论主要还是靠一些实打实的案例来支撑，比如Galaxy——一家上市公司、纳斯达克上市的公司，把sUSDS放到了自己的资产负债表上，对吧，这就是一种信心的信号，能给别人看。

Those conversations are mostly rooted in proof points like Galaxy- a public company, a NASDAQ listed company putting sUSDS on their balance sheet, right, that is a sign of confidence to show others.

我还想说，标普给Sky评级这件事，对我们来说其实是个转折点。

I would also say that S and P rating of Sky was actually a watershed moment for us.

这让传统机构可以对Sky进行承销。

That allows for traditional institutions to underwrite Sky.

而且他们把标普和其他评级机构看作这类信贷相关业务的风向标。

And they view S and P and other ratings agencies as kind of a North Star for these types of credit related activities.

所以如果像标普这样的评级机构能给我们一个正式的评级，只要我们能通过他们的审核流程，这本身就是一种信心的体现，也让我们能真正跟那些更大的机构建立关系。

And so if a rating agency like S and P is able to give us an actual rating that if we're passing the process at all, right, that's actually a sign of confidence and allows us to to really ingratiate ourselves with, like, the bigger institutions.

我觉得他们最先介入的方式，应该就是配置sUSDS。

I think the first sign of where they would come in is with an allocation to sUSDS.

我觉得他们不太可能直接持有Sky的现货，不过Sky可以成为某种指数型产品的重要组成部分，那些更传统的机构在做这类产品的时候可以用到。

It's, I think, more unlikely to be the spot holding of Sky, although I think Sky could be a great part of some type of like index type product for more traditional institutions who are creating those types of products.

对，我觉得sUSDS这块，我们跟一些非常大的机构正在进行一些非常积极的对话。

But, yeah, I think sUSDS, we're having some really positive conversations there with, like, you know, really big institutions.

Max，我想听听你对Greg提到的一个问题的看法，就是《清晰法案》没有推进，但SEC和CFTC在监管方面却在往前走。

Max, I'd love to hear your perspective on something Greg touched on, which is the Clarity Act not moving forward, but the SEC and the CFTC moving forward on regulation.

那个法案本来是要禁止闲置稳定币余额产生收益的。

The bill would have banned yield on idle stablecoin balances.

显然那个没通过，因为法案本身就没过。

That didn't go through, obviously, because the bill didn't pass.

这些事综合起来，对Galaxy来说意味着什么？他们在链上做的事情、在加密领域的布局，这些监管事件又是怎么影响Galaxy在加密方面工作的预期增长的？

How does all of this net out in the calculus for Galaxy in terms of what they're they're they're doing onchain, what they're trying to do in in crypto, and just, like, how have these regulatory events impacted the the projected growth of of what Galaxy is working on in crypto?

我们是一家机构型公司，所以做任何事情一直都是双保险的做法。

We're an institutional firm, so we've always taken a belt and suspender approach to everything that we do.

我的意思是，我们一直在等监管落地，一直按照最坏的情况在做准备，所以我们做的每一件事，都是基于一个前提：SEC会像拜登政府时期那样来执法。

And so what I mean by that is we've been waiting for regulation, we've been preparing for sort of a worst case scenario all along, and so everything that we've done has been with the lens that the SEC is gonna enforce sort of similar to the way they did during the Biden administration.

我觉得如果能从国会那边得到更多的明确性——一时想不到更好的说法——那对数字经济的增长是非常有利的。

And I think getting more clarity, for lack of better terminology, out of Congress would have been excellent for the growth of the digital economy.

我确实觉得，现在SEC开始介入了，就像Greg之前提到的创新豁免，而且开始有了一些松绑和豁免性的救济，让人们能更容易地参与到链上生态里去，因为这正是创新豁免想要推动的事情。

I do think now that we're starting to see the SEC come in, to Greg's point earlier on the innovation exemption, and you're starting to get a little bit more in terms of relief and exemptive relief that allows for people to engage a little bit more easily with sort of the onchain ecosystem because that's that's really what the innovation exemption is trying to promote.

明白了。

Gotcha.

好的。

Okay.

所以这里面确实有一些积极的顺风因素，我们还得看看市场会怎么反应。

So there there is some some constructive tailwinds on some of all of this, and we'll kinda have to see how that plays out in the markets.

Greg，我想听听你的看法，你觉得下一个边际的机构入场会是什么样……

Greg, I'd like to get your thoughts on, you know, what is the next marginal institutional look...

Sky 的采用情况是什么样的？

Adoption of of Sky look like?

从我听你说的来看，sUSDS 好像就是你会向他们推销的那个产品。

It seems to me from what I've heard you say that sUSDS is sort of the product you would pitch to them.

你会去找他们，把 Galaxy 作为一个案例来用吗？

Do you go to them and use Galaxy as a case study?

那这个对话大概是什么样的？对于 Sky 未来被采用，你的推销说辞是什么？

And, like, what does that conversation look like, and and what is the pitch for for future adoption of of Sky here?

我觉得 Galaxy 算是一个案例吧，对吧，因为这个业务涉及到了 Sky 生态系统的很多方面，通过 Spark、通过 Grove，也许还有其他渠道，当然还有 sUSDS。

I mean, I think Galaxy is a bit of a case study, right, because the business is touching so many parts of of the Sky ecosystem, right, through Spark, through Grove, and and perhaps through other avenues, obviously, sUSDS.

而且很明显，这些配置有助于为最终驱动……的盈余做贡献。

And, obviously, those allocations help feed into surplus for what ultimately power...

通过治理设定的利率来驱动 sUSDS。

Powers sUSDS through through a governance set rate.

但是，是的，我确实觉得这是一个非常好的路线图，可以用来向机构展示。

But, yeah, I mean, I I do think it's a really good road map for how we could present it to institutions.

我确实觉得有些机构在搞更偏向DLT方向的解决方案，它们可能永远都不会过渡到用Sky这样的方案。

I do think there are institutions who are building more DLT kind of oriented solutions that might never, right, I think, like, bridge over to using a solution like Sky.

这也没关系，因为我们觉得这个市场大得不得了。

And and that's fine because we think that there's a massive addressable market.

我觉得真正有巨大机会的地方是在代币化这块。

Where I do think there's a massive opportunity is in the tokenization space.

而且，是的，Sky确实会配置一些代币化的产品。

And, yeah, Sky allocates to some tokenized products.

我……

I...

你知道，我们也在探索一些链外的选项，就是为了让投资组合更加多元化。

You know, we're we're also exploring some off chain options as well just to to further diversify the portfolio.

但我想说的是，在代币化领域，这些资产的流动性特征差别非常大。

But what I would say is that in tokenization, you have these assets that have vastly different, liquidity profiles.

所以你看，为了展示两端的情况，你有像货币市场基金这样的产品，也有那种按季度或者按年赎回的私募信贷资产，就是来自某个私募信贷管理人的那种。

And so when you look at just to to to show both sides of the curve, right, you have, like, a money market fund versus, a quarterly or, you know, yearly redeemable private credit asset, right, from from one of the the private credit managers.

所以如果这两种资产都代币化了，很明显，国债或者货币市场基金大概一两天就能完成结算赎回，但私募信贷那个产品就得等一个季度或者更久。

And so if those are both tokenized, obviously, you can redeem the treasury or the money market fund in, call it, one to two days of of settlement, but, the the private credit vehicle in in a quarter or whatever it may be.

而且就算到了那个时候，有时候你还得排队，赎回申请不一定能兑现，因为赎回额度已经用完了，然后你就会被推到下一个季度。

And even then, right, you have to queue sometimes and your redemption isn't met because that redemption capacity has been exhausted, and then you get pushed to the next quarter.

所以在链上借贷市场里把这些资产当抵押品用，风险其实挺多的。

And so there are a lot of risks there when it comes to using these assets as collateral within onchain lending markets.

就像Max说的，你得确保如果你接受这种资产作为抵押品，在市场暴跌的时候，它是能赎回的，或者能清算的。

To Max's point, you need to ensure that if you're accepting that asset as collateral, it is redeemable or liquidatable, right, in the event of a market that's cascading downward.

所以我其实觉得sUSDS特别适合做这些流动性缓冲层，跟这些代币化资产搭配在一起，能实现原子级赎回，不一定非得赎回整个仓位，但至少能赎回一部分。

And so I I actually believe that sUSDS is the perfect asset for these liquidity sleeves that sit alongside these tokenized assets and allow for atomic redeemability, not of the entire position necessarily, but of of some portion of the position.

我们……

We...

我们现在正在大力推这个方向，我们相信如果代币化市场增长到几万亿美元的规模——我确实认为这会在未来五年多的时间里发生——那sUSDS轻轻松松就能变成一个超过一千亿美元的资产。

We're really pushing on that narrative right now, and we believe that if the tokenized market grows to many trillions of dollars, which I I actually do believe that will happen, in the next, you know, five plus years, that sUSDS could easily become a $100,000,000,000 plus asset easily.

而这可以通过各种不同的杠杆来实现，其中一个就是把这些资产纳入到这些流动性缓冲层里。

And and that's through various different levers with one of those levers being, you know, inclusion in these in these liquidity sleeves.

好的。

Okay.

所以你们已经做出了一个很棒的产品，接下来就是把它推向市场、获得更多用户了。

So you guys have built a great product, taking it to market, and getting the adoption is the next step there.

Max，Galaxy 接下来有什么计划，尤其是在链上借贷这块？

Max, what's on the horizon for Galaxy, especially in the onchain lending business?

你们在这个领域一直很投入，非常活跃。

You guys have been very involved in this, very active.

路线图是什么样的？

What's on the road map?

你们接下来期待看到什么？

What are you looking forward to on the horizon?

跟我说说你们对未来的展望吧。

Talk to me about the future outlook for you guys.

我觉得对我来说，未来的展望是……

I think the future outlook for me is...