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如果你想锻炼身体、开阔思维，只有一个地方值得去。
If you wanna pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.
Mind Pump。
Mind Pump.
Mind Pump。
Mind Pump.
主持人是萨尔·迪·斯特凡诺、亚当·谢弗和贾斯汀·安德鲁斯。
With your hosts, Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews.
你刚刚找到了下载量最高的健身、健康和娱乐播客。
You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast.
这就是Mind Pump。
This is Mind Pump.
明白了。
Okay.
今天的这一期，特别精彩。
Today's episode, this one is wild.
这种事可不常有，但我真的被震撼到了。
This doesn't happen very often, but my mind gets completely blown.
我们采访了Super Patch的创始人杰·达利瓦尔，他研发出了一项技术。
So we interviewed the founder of Super Patch, Jay Dhaliwal, and he came up with a technology.
花了他很长时间，还有上千万美元的投资。
Took him a long time and tens of millions of dollars.
这项技术能缓解疼痛、改善睡眠、提升运动表现，而且不靠任何化学成分或补剂，叫作触觉技术。
He came up with the technology that does things like alleviate pain, improve sleep, boost athletic performance with no compounds, no supplements, something called haptic technology.
就是一小片贴在皮肤上的东西，就能让这些效果发生。
It's literally a small patch you put on your skin, and it gets these things to happen.
我刚听说的时候完全不信，真的完全不信，直到杰发给我那些经过同行评审的对照研究。
When I first heard about it, I was completely skeptical, completely skeptical until Jay sent me the peer reviewed controlled studies.
正经的研究，兄弟们。
Real studies, you guys.
你自己都能查得到。
Like, you can look them up yourself.
这些研究证明了它们真的有效。
The studies prove these things really work.
我的看法彻底改变了。
My mind has been changed.
我们亲自试用过他们的产品，每个人都感受到了明显的变化。
We've experimented and use it use their products, and all of us notice a difference.
太不可思议了。
It's wild.
这是一次突破。
It's breakthrough.
它将开创一个全新的领域，让人们能够缓解疼痛、改善睡眠、提升运动表现，甚至增强性欲。
It's going to start a new category of how people can alleviate things like pain or improve their sleep or move better, boost their libido.
它的可能性是无限的。
There's the possibilities are endless.
这家公司叫Super Patch。
The company's called Super Patch.
在这期节目中，我们会全面聊聊他们的创业故事、科学依据，还有有多惊人。
So in this episode, we talk all about the founding, the science, and just how wild it is.
顺便说一下，如果你想试试他们的产品，现在有个折扣可以享受。
By the way, if you wanna try out one of their products, you get yourself a discount.
访问 mindpump.superpatch.com 就行。
You can go to mindpump.superpatch.com.
通过这个链接，你可以省下30美元。
That link will get you $30 off their products.
本期节目还由另一个赞助商Seed冠名支持。
Now this episode is brought to you by another sponsor, Seed.
这是世界上最好的益生菌产品。
This is the world's best probiotics.
如果你认同益生菌的好处，比如改善肠道健康，或者关注科学对炎症、皮肤状态和精力提升的研究，
So if you like the benefits of probiotics, you like the better gut health, you see what the science says for inflammation, for skin health, for energy.
有些证据表明，益生菌可能有助于减脂。
There is some evidence that shows that probiotics may help with fat loss.
就选全球最好的。
Go with the world's best.
选Seed就对了。
Go with Seed.
别选那些竞争对手。
Don't go with the competitors.
根本不在一个档次上。
They're not even in the same universe.
去 seed.com/mindpump。
Go to seed.com/mindpump.
使用代码 two five Mind Pump。
Use the code two five Mind Pump.
立享七五折。
Get 25% off.
我们的训练计划现在也在促销。
We also have a sale on our workout programs.
购买任何一款MAPS 15训练计划。
Buy any MAPS 15 style workout program.
再免费领取另一款MAPS 15训练计划。
Get any other MAPS 15 style program for free.
买一送一。
It's buy one, get one free.
前往maps15bogo.com。
Go to maps15bogo.com.
好的。
Alright.
简单说一下。
Real quick.
如果我们像你们爱我们一样爱你们，为什么不穿件我们的T恤、戴顶帽子、拿个杯子，或者穿上我们的训练装备，去mindpumpstore.com支持一下呢？
If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com?
我现在说的就是这个。
I'm talking right now.
暂停一下。
Hit pause.
去 mindpumpstore.com 看看。
Head on over to mindpumpstore.com.
就这样。
That's it.
继续享受接下来的节目吧。
Enjoy the rest of the show.
杰，欢迎来到节目。
Jay, welcome to the show.
很高兴能来，西德。
So glad to be here, Seed.
这个话题对我来说挺特别的。
So this is an interesting one for me.
对吧？
Right?
所以我直接跟大家说说，这个事儿是怎么回事，为什么你会来我们节目。
So I'm just gonna tell the audience, like, how this all came to be and why you're on our show.
你们之前给我们寄了一些产品样品。
So you guys sent us some samples of your product.
我平时就是负责看这些补剂或者产品，判断一下值不值得合作。
And I'm typically the guy that looks at supplements or products and, you know, helps determine whether or not this is something we'll even consider, you know, working with.
我一开始真的挺怀疑的。
And I was really skeptical.
从一开始就不信。
Right out the gates.
特别不信任。
Like really skeptical.
你们的产品是个贴片，贴在身上就能起作用。
So your your product is a patch that you put on and it produces effects.
我第一反应还以为这是透皮吸收的。
Now, I initially thought, oh, this must be a transdermal.
当然。
Sure.
我当时以为，这玩意儿应该是通过皮肤吸收某种成分之类的。
You know, it's gonna it's gonna deliver some kind of transdermal compound or whatever.
结果我一看，里面什么都没有。
And then I looked at him like, there's nothing in this.
是的。
Yeah.
这样一来，我更怀疑了。
In that way Became more skeptical.
对。
Yeah.
怀疑得更厉害了。
Even more skeptical.
于是我的怀疑一下子就崩了。
So the skeptical skill just started broke.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
我当时就想，说实话，这东西真是……
And I was like, this is this I mean, I'll be honest.
我以为你这玩意儿……
I thought I like, this is You're
不是第一个了。
not the first
是的。
Yeah.
这根本什么都没有。
This is not this is nothing.
就是完全不靠谱。
This is like total whatever.
是的。
Yeah.
然后你们发了一些研究资料过来。
And then you guys sent over some studies.
对。
Yeah.
我看了那些研究，心想：这些是真的吗？
And I looked at the studies, and I was like, are these real?
是不是做得挺靠谱的？
Like, are well made.
这些确实是正规的研究。
Like, these are legit studies
确实让你信服了。
showing won you over for sure.
而且是真实有效果的。
And like a real effect.
这是真家伙。
It's real deal.
确实是实实在在的效果。
Like a real effect.
是明显的效应。
Like a significant effect.
是的。
Yeah.
我仔细看了那些研究，但还是持怀疑态度。
So I went through the studies and then but I was still I'm still skeptic.
我一向都挺谨慎的。
I'm always a skeptic.
于是我给你打了电话。
So I get on the phone with you.
对。
Yeah.
我当时就想，我得问问这人到底怎么回事。
And I'm like, I gotta ask this guy like what the deal is.
你这是有备而来啊。
You came loaded.
我就直接拿起来了，因为这家伙——
I I would just grab it because Dude,
他也是有备而来。
he came loaded.
我就想，行吧。
I was like, okay.
我来告诉你为什么。
Well, I'll tell you why.
我跟你说吧。
I'll tell you what.
这不错。
It's good.
你知道吗，我真的很感谢。
You know, I I appreciate it.
不过我们还没
Well, we haven't
自从红光疗法之后，我记不得还有哪款产品让我们一开始怀疑，后来又这么感兴趣。
I don't think there's been a product like this that we've been skeptical and then this interested in since red light therapy.
我正想说这个。
That's what was just gonna say.
对。
Yeah.
红光疗法当初也是这样。
Red light therapy did a similar thing.
我还记得它刚流行起来的时候。
I remember when that first that first became popular.
所以你得跨越那道理解与信任的鸿沟，而这些目前都还不存在。
So you gotta cross the chasm of of understanding and belief that's not there.
对吧？
Right?
所以你得搭一座桥。
So you have to you have to build a bridge.
没错。
Yes.
完全正确。
100%.
红光疗法也是同样的情况。
Because same thing with red light therapy.
你当时对着自己照红光，多神奇啊。
How cool you were shining a red light on yourself.
还有各种各样的类似情况。
There's all these things.
结果他们也做了同样的事。
And then they did the same thing.
他们给我们发了一些研究资料。
They sent us studies.
我看了那些研究，然后就去跟他们聊了，现在很明显，这东西是有效的。
I saw the studies, and then I was like, Then we talked to them and now, you know, obviously it works.
现在大家都觉得这有效，但你这个产品不一样，我请你来，就是想问你这些研究是怎么回事，原理是什么，你是怎么想到这个点子的。
And now everybody knows it works, but So this is not what with your product, I got you on, and I'm and that's why I'm asking you all the questions while we're on the phone about the studies and how this works and how you came up with it.
你确实让我感兴趣了，所以我才决定请你上节目。
And you got me interested enough definitely to have you on the show.
我们最近也试了几个，亚当最近老是觉得身体疼。
And I will say we've been trying some of them, and Adam's been having some pain issues.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
他一直在用你的那个止痛产品，他自己也说了情况。
And he's been using your the pain one and he explains it.
他说我的疼痛从八九分降到了五分左右。
He says it takes my pain from an eight and a nine down to like a five.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
差不多就是这样。
Something like that.
这正是研究中所显示的结果。
Well, that's what we see in the study.
明白了。
Okay.
它
It's
这是我能想到最贴切的描述了。
That's the best way I could describe it.
我不确定
I don't know
除了这项研究显示疼痛感知降低了50%之外，我想不到别的说法了。
how else to describe it other than This study shows 50% reduction in perceived pain.
好的。
Okay.
那我们来详细说说这些贴片是什么，你是怎么研发出来的，然后再聊聊这些研究，因为真的太惊人了。
So let's so explain what these patches are and how you came up with them, and then let's talk about these studies because it's it's wild.
太不可思议了。
It's crazy.
我真是信了。
Believer out of me.
如果我没看到这些研究数据支持，我根本不可能相信。
And, if I didn't see all these studies showing support, there's no way I believe it.
好吧。
So Okay.
那我们就从这儿开始吧。
Let's start let's start there.
不用了。
No.
不过还是得谢谢你愿意保持开放的心态，他们常说，脑子就像降落伞。
That's thanks for anyways, thank you for the open mind because they say, you know, a mind is like a parachute.
只有打开的时候才管用。
It only works if it's open.
对。
Mhmm.
没错。
Mhmm.
是吧？
Right?
现在世界上发生的事太多了，我们根本忙不过来。
Because there's so many things happening in the world that we don't have time to stay on top of it.
对吧？
Right?
接下来我要先说明一下，我们可以走两条不同的路。
The second thing I'll preface, and we can go down two different roads.
一条是深入细节的路，另一条是宏观概览的路。
We can go down the really in-depth road or we can go at the high level.
我觉得你们肯定想说：咱们深入细节吧，这挺好。
I think you dudes are gonna be like, let's go into the deets, which is great.
在神经科学里，我说了，任何领域都是理论。
Everything in neuroscience, and I'll argue anybody, is a theory.
如果有人声称自己完全懂大脑是怎么运作的、它所有功能是怎么实现的，那其实我们根本不知道。
If anybody says they understand how our mind really works and everything that it does and how it does, we don't know.
我们能做的，就是提出理论，然后去判断哪些可能性更接近真正的因果关系。
All we can take a look at is develop theories and then figure out what's the likeliness of this is what's causing the cause effect.
明白吗？
Okay?
如果我说的有什么地方听起来不对，或者你想更深入了解某个点，我们可以随时讨论。
So if there's anything that I say that doesn't make sense, or you want a deeper inflammation, we can talk about it.
我可能会说，我不确定。
I might say that I don't know.
有很多事情我也不清楚，我们只能观察和测量这些现象，对吧？
There's a lot things I don't know, and we just measure the effects, right?
我们关注的是正在发生什么。
We're looking at what's happening.
所以我觉得我们都同意，我们的神经系统是主导者，对吧？
So I think we all agree that our nervous system is in charge, right?
它在掌控一切。
It runs the show.
每一个生理功能都受到某种神经系统的调控，对吧？
Every physiological function has some kind of neurological control, right?
这种调控在人类身上是这样的，而我只研究过人类。
That control in humans, and I only studied humans.
人们常问我，那动物呢？
I just people say, what about animals?
我说，我对动物一无所知。
I go, I don't know about animals.
我只研究过人的脑电图。
I've only studied the human EEG.
这种神经控制体现在脑电波上。
That neurological control is expressed in brainwaves.
脑电波就是我们思维的语言。
That is the language of our mind.
阿尔法波、贝塔波、德尔塔波、西塔波、伽马波。
Alpha, beta, delta, theta, gamma.
这些是我们现在设备能检测到的脑电波类型。
Those are the brainwaves we can read with the equipment that we have today.
还有没有其他我们没发现的东西？
Is there other stuff going on?
很有可能。
Quite possibly.
我们还不清楚。
We don't know.
但这是我们能研究的。
But this is what we can study.
脑电图研究和定量脑电图研究是理解正常神经功能的基础和金标准。
And EEG studies and QEG studies are the backbone, the gold standard of understanding normative neural function.
好的。
Okay.
明白？
Okay?
我们可以观察到这些网络，那么什么是神经网络呢？
And we can see those networks and so what is a neural network?
神经网络就是大脑不同区域之间通过脑电波相互连接形成的系统。
A neural network is a combination of brain waves connecting one region of a brain with another region of a brain.
对吧？
Right?
所以这是一点脑电波活动的波动，但从来不是一条直线。
So it's a little spark of brainwave activity of a wave, but it's never a straight line.
它总是呈螺旋状。
It always spirals.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们必须明白，我们的思维并不是一个二维的结构。
So we have to understand that our mind isn't a two dimensional construct.
对吧？
Right?
虽然我们在脑电图上看到的是波浪线，但大脑里实际发生的事从来不是直线，神经科学里根本没有直线。
So although we see squiggly lines on an EEG, the stuff that's actually happening in our mind is never a straight there's no straight lines in neurology.
它总是螺旋着的。
It's always spiraling.
所以，说到底，这是我们大脑中一个区域、一个神经元、一个布罗德曼区在和另一个布罗德曼区对话。
So, anyways, it's one region of our mind, one neuron, one Broadmann area talking to another Broadmann area.
这就像是搭了一座小桥。
It's a little bridge.
成千上万座这样的桥连在一起，就形成了网络。
Multiple millions of bridges form networks.
如果你从某个角度去看，每一个生理功能其实都能简化为一个非常明确的功能网络。
And every physiological function can be reduced if you look at it in certain ways, to a very discrete network of function.
所以我们就这么做了。
And so that's what we've done.
首先，我们自己也问过，为什么要干这个？
So first of all, we decided to look you ask, well, why did you have to even do this?
你明明有更重要的事要做吧。
Like, you must have better things to do.
这最初只是一个出于热情的项目，为了帮我妈妈应对多发性硬化症。
This started off as a passion project to help my mom with her MS.
对吧？
Right?
二十五年来，我们试遍了所有主流的方法和手段。
For twenty five years, we tried every mainstream mechanism, modality.
只要是能想到的，我们都试过了。
You name it, we tried it.
二十五年后的今天，我一直在想，我们该怎么把她的大脑信号传递到身体里，因为妈妈自己做不到。
And the question for me at the end of the twenty five years was we're trying to get the signal from her mind to her body because mom couldn't do this.
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
我的背景是软件加密。
And so my background is software encryption.
所以我向她的主治医生和这个领域的顶尖专家提出的问题是：我们知道，由于髓鞘脱失，信号无法从她的大脑传到身体。
And so my question to her care providers and leading thought leaders in this space was, we understand because of demyelination, the signal's not getting from her mind to her body.
她很想做到这一点。
She wants to do this.
她希望靠自己的手臂能走路、能控制身体，但她做不到。
She wants to be ambulatory control in her arms, but she can't do it.
那你跟我说说这个信号到底是怎么回事？
So talk to me about that signal.
对吧？
Right?
他们的回答是：没那么简单。
And the answer was, well, it's not that simple.
所以我明白，当学术界和主流医学说‘没那么简单’，其实就是在说‘我们不知道’。
So what I've learned is if academia and mainstream medicine comes back and says, it's not that simple, that's code for we don't know.
这是我过去很多年里慢慢悟出来的。
That's what I've learned over the last many, many years.
他们还问：你为什么非得想知道这个？
And they're like, well, why do you want to know?
我说，这其实挺简单的。
I go, it's pretty simple.
只要我能量化这个信号，就有可能搭一座桥，补上那个出问题的部分。
If I can quantify the signal, then maybe I can build a bridge over the part that's not working right.
因为工程师不就是干这个的吗。
Because that's what engineers do.
我们修桥，对吧？
We build bridges, right?
他们说，呃，好吧，我们也不知道这信号到底是什么。
They're like, well, like, okay, we don't know what the signal is.
它从哪儿开始的？
Where does it start?
它从大脑开始。
Well, it starts in the brain.
我说，太好了。
I'm like, great.
大脑的哪个部分在调控这个？从那里开始的信号又是什么？
What part of the brain is regulating this and what's the signal that starts there?
这没那么简单，对吧？
It's not that simple, right?
这是一场持续了无数个月、无数周的探讨，就为了慢慢理清它。
So this is a conversation that's many, many months and weeks and just trying to deduce it.
最后我们达成的共识是，我们的大脑会产生信息，最初以脑电波的形式存在，一旦离开中枢神经系统，经过脑干的AP区域，就变成了微电流信号。
And the conversation that concluded was our mind generates information that starts off as brain waves, that once it exits our central nervous system down the brain stem, out the AP of the brain stem, it becomes microcurrents of signals.
在外周神经系统里，并不存在所谓的脑电波。
There's no brain waves per se inside our peripheral nervous system.
对吧？
Right?
那都是有特定规律组织起来的微电流。
They're microcurrents of electricity, all organized in a very specific way.
我说，明白了。
And I said, okay.
真正控制行走能力的脑电波是哪些？
What are the brain waves that actually control ambulatory control?
我就是从这里开始研究的。
That's where I started looking at it.
但答案同样没那么简单。
And again, the answer was not that simple.
但那时候我已经明白，如果脑电波是这种控制、神经功能乃至生理功能的源头，那我们就必须深入研究它。
But what I knew at that point, as you can imagine, is if brain waves are the source of that control, that express neuro function, that ultimately express physiological function, then that's what we need to study.
但你不能只靠一组数据下结论。
But you can't base it on one set of data.
对吧？
Right?
你需要海量的数据。
You need lots and lots of data.
全球有不少数据库，几十年来一直在收集人们的脑电图数据。
So there are a number of databases globally that have been collecting EEG readings from people for decades.
我们一直使用的数据库叫Loretta Z数据库。
The database that we've relied on is called the Loretta Z database.
它包含了大约二十五万名受试者的数据。
It's about a quarter million subjects.
这些都是脑电图记录。
They're EEG readings.
它已经成为衡量正常脑功能的标准参照数据库。
And it's become the normative database to measure normative function.
所以，如果我拿了你的脑电图，萨尔，想看看你的神经功能和正常水平相比如何，
So if I took, Sal, your EEG, and I wanted to see, hey, where is Sal's EEG neural function based against normative?
我们就会用这个数据库来对比，找出你的数据和正常值之间的差异。
That's the database we would compare your EEG to see the difference between normative function and where yours is.
这些数据库就是用来做这种分析的。
That's what these databases are used for.
也可以用它们来做脑部成像分析。
And can use them for imaging.
你可以用它来识别神经网络。
You can use them for identifying networks.
这要追溯到2009年了。
So this is now going back to 2009.
已经过去好一阵子了。
So it's been a while.
这个数据库是可以授权使用的。
So this database, you can license it.
价格并不贵。
It's not expensive.
我拿到了这个数据库，想找出控制母亲行走功能的那套神经网络在哪。
I got this database, and I'm trying to see where's a network that controls mom's ambulatory control.
但数据库里并没有这个数据，对吧？
And the database doesn't have it, right?
它本来就没打算用来做这个。
It's not built to do that.
当我到社区营地里问他们：嘿，那个行动网络到底在哪？
And when I write to them in a community camp, say, Listen, where is the ambulatory network?
这个网络到底在哪儿？
Where is this network?
他们说：没有没有，我们有这个软件，但你看到的其实就是个示波器，上面全是乱晃的波形。
They're like, No, no, we have this software, but basically what you're seeing is oscilloscope that has wiggly lines on it.
所以差不多三年半到四年的时间里，我自己写了套软件来分析这个数据库。
So for better part, three and half, four years, I write my own software to start analyzing that database.
现在我来谈谈我的理论。
So now here's the theory that I had.
如果你有不同意见，我们可以一起讨论。
And if you disagree, then we can talk about it.
我们四个人都醒着，都活着。
The four of us are awake and alive.
对吧？
Right?
到目前为止，我们都同意。
So far, we agree.
到目前为止，我们都同意。
So far, we agree.
这意味着，如果我们的大脑在调控所有生理功能——呼吸、心跳、所有自主活动，那么这些活动必然会在我们的意识中有所体现。
That means if if our brain is regulating every physiological function, our breathing, our respiratory control, our heart rate, everything ambulatory, then that then that activity must be expressed in our minds.
这其中一定有信息在传递。
There's communication going on.
一定有什么在发生。
There's something going on.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
如果是这样，那这个网络就一定存在于每个人身上。
And if that's the case, then that network must exist in every single person.
对吧？
Right?
听起来有道理。
Seems logical.
听起来有道理。
Seems logical.
对吧？
Right?
那曾经是个理论。
That that was the theory.
好吧。
Like, okay.
如果我有足够的数据，或者一个足够大的数据库，那么其中每一个都必然存在一个调控自主功能的网络。
If I have enough database if I have enough data or a large enough database, there must be a network in every single one of them that regulates ambulatory control.
那你应该能把它识别出来。
So you should be able to identify it.
你应该能够
You should be able
把数据提取出来。
to siphon it out.
至少，这是正常人脑波的样子。
This is what these brain waves look like in people with normal control at least.
明白了。
Okay.
这就是当初的假设。
That was the premise.
那你现在是在找它吗？
And you're trying to look for it?
我正在寻找
I'm trying to find
它。
it.
所以你开发了软件来分析，毕竟这些数据和数字量太大了。
And so you built software to analyze because that's a lot of data and numbers.
第一步就是开发软件，把所有这些数据整理出来，帮你找到想要的东西。
And so so step one was creating software to compile all of this and give you what you're looking for.
这其实就是模式识别。
Well, it's pattern recognition.
对吧？
Right?
它基于机器学习、模式识别和特征提取。
So it's based on machine learning, pattern recognition, delineation.
你可以把任何复杂的正弦波分解成单独的频率成分。
So you can take any complex sine wave, and you can reduce it to individual frequencies.
这整个过程其实就是傅里叶变换。
And all this is just Fourier transform.
这些都是早就存在的数学方法了。
This is mathematical constructs that have been around for a long time.
这是信号处理。
It's signal processing.
明白了。
Okay.
对吧？
Right?
但并不是单一信号。
But it isn't one signal.
而是很多信号。
It's a lot of signals.
所以我们得找出大脑不同主要区域之间的关系，那些在其中形成的不同神经网络，然后找到在99%的数据库中都共有的那个模式。
So we had to find was was the relationship between areas of the brain, broad main areas, the different discrete networks that are being formed in them, and find the one that's common across 99% of that database.
你们是在找常态。
You're looking for normative.
我是在找常态中的异常。
I'm I'm looking for normative inconsistency.
这种模式存在吗？
Does this pattern exist?
我们所有人天生就具备行走能力，这是刻在基因里的。
So the ambulatory program that all of us have is hardwired.
每个人的行走机制都是以相同的方式组织的。
It is organized the same way in all of us.
因为没人教过我们怎么控制走路。
Because no one teaches us ambulatory control.
也没人教过我们怎么使用我们的双腿。
No one teaches how to use our armored legs.
对。
Right.
是的。
Mhmm.
也没人教过我们怎么应对疼痛。
No one teaches us pain.
没人教我们怎么睡觉。
No one teaches us sleep.
没人教我们这些事。
No one teaches us these things.
这些都是预设好的。
These are preprogrammed.
对。
Mhmm.
所以它们一定是一样的。
And so they must be the same.
不然我们就没法正常运作了。
Otherwise, they wouldn't we couldn't can function.
对吧？
Right?
所以我正在寻找那个调控我们行走能力、前庭反应、平衡稳定，以及控制手臂和腿部的神经网络。
So I'm looking for that network that helps regulate our ambulatory control, vestibular response, balance stability, control my arms, control my legs.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
为什么？
Why?
因为我妈妈得多发性硬化症后，就失去了这些能力。
Because that's what my mom lost with her MS.
你现在做的这件事，首先开发这个软件本身就是一个非常疯狂的工程。
Now when you're doing this and you're first off, creating that software in itself is a crazy project.
确实。
Yeah.
这简直像是另一家公司的事。
That's like a whole another company.
是四年
It's four
年。
years.
四年时间，你光是在搞编程。
Four years, you're just creating Coding.
写代码。
Coding.
五百五十万行。
Five and a
五百五十万行。
half million lines.
五百五十万行。
Five five and a half million lines.
哇。
Wow.
明白了。
Okay.
所以在这整个过程中，你确实做到了。
So that whole time you're doing that, and you're right.
你很用心，而且我
You're thoughtful And I
我确实这么做过，你说得对，这正是我做的，这个观点特别好。
did this but this what I so the advantage, that was a great point because that's what I did.
那正是我最得心应手的地方。
That was my sweet spot.
明白了。
Okay.
我从小就这么干。
Like, grew up doing that.
明白了。
Okay.
那儿才是我最自在的地方。
Like, that's where I'm at home.
明白了。
Okay.
所以这五年里，你一直在开发一个软件，用来帮你把这一切理清楚。
So five years, you're you're you're creating a software that's gonna break this down for you.
你的想法是，只要能弄清楚什么是常态，就能找到突破口。
And your theory was if I can identify what's normative Yeah.
这样我就有方向了，可以着手解决这个问题。
Then I have a place to look now to help solve this problem.
你根本不清楚这个想法到底该怎么理解。
You don't know what the how does something idea.
你只是觉得，这可能是第一个线索。
You just or like, this is the first clue.
我确实认真听了。
I I listen.
这就跟谷歌一样。
It's it's it's like Google Yeah.
地图。
Maps.
你想去某个地方，得先知道自己在哪。
If you wanna go somewhere, you gotta know where you are first.
当然。
Sure.
没错。
Right.
对吧？
Right?
所以我需要一个基准。
So I I need baseline.
我得先知道我现在在哪。
I need know where am I?
我们从哪里开始？
What are we starting with?
什么是常态？
What's normative?
前庭反应的基准是什么？
What's baseline vestibular response?
基础的移动控制是什么？
What's baseline ambulatory control?
写这段代码的时候，你是怎么把其他功能都区分开来的？
How are you when you're writing the code for this, how are you able to tease out all the other functions?
这需要花时间和精力。
This is the time and the energy.
这就是为什么拖了这么久。
This is why it's taken so long.
是的。
Yeah.
现在我们有这么多工具，但服务器架构太重了。
Like the horsepower on now we have so many different tools, but the server stack is heavy.
代码本身也很复杂。
The coding is heavy.
这个应用太臃肿了。
The app is heavy.
对吧？
Right?
这特别耗精力，因为你得处理万亿级别的数据，从中找出共性，一旦你发现了规律，看清了它的结构，事情就变得简单了，越来越简单。
It's a drain because you're synthesizing trillions of bits of data trying to find that common and once you start seeing it and seeing how it's organized, then it becomes easy and easy.
我最后一个补丁，比第一个补丁轻松了十倍、甚至一百倍。
The last patch that I made was 10 times, a 100 times easier than the first patch that I made.
对吧？
Right?
总得从某个地方开始啊。
Because you got to start somewhere.
对吧？
Right?
有意思的是，脑电图数据、脑电图分析和QD分析都不是什么新东西。
And the beautiful part is EEG data and EEG analysis and QD analysis is not a new thing.
顶尖科学家、国家卫生项目、五角大楼，早就一直在研究这些了。
Top tier scientists, the national health programs, the Pentagon, they've all been studying this.
所以我不是在孤军奋战。
So this isn't like I'm doing this in isolation.
世界上一些最聪明的人也在做类似的研究，我读到的这些成果让我意识到，嗯，可能这条路走不通。
Some of the smartest people in the world are so there's a lot of research happening at the same time that I'm reading that I'm saying, okay.
这大概不是正确的方向。
This is probably not the right way to go.
这大概不是……
This is probably not
所以你是在不断获得线索和提示。
So you're getting clues and hints.
到处都是。
Everywhere.
对吧？
Right?
好的。
K.
我只是想找到一个稳定的神经网络，理论上能响应步行时的肌肉激活模式。
All I'm trying to do is find a consistent network that I believe theoretically control responds to ambulatory control muscle recruitment.
那现在主要的数据来源是什么？你是从哪里获取这些关于人的数据的？
Now what so What's the majority of like, where are you getting all this data from in terms of the person?
就是说
Like
所以，Loretta Z 数据库就是这个数据库。
So so so the Loretta Z database is that database.
它包含了二十五万人的 QEG 数据。
It's got the QEG database of a quarter million people.
好的。
Okay.
我们分析的就是这些数据。
That's what we're analyzing.
不同人之间的差异确实很大。
It just varies across the board.
这个数据是从新来的，就在这儿。
It is from it's there's a new from it.
年龄范围从两岁到八十五岁。
It's age two to 85.
明白了。
Okay.
二十五万人，这人数可真不少。
Quarter million like, that's a lot of people.
这数据量真大。
That's a lot of data.
这对你的研究目标来说其实特别理想。
Which is actually really good for what you're trying to do.
这正是我需要的完美数据。
It's absolutely the perfect thing that I'm trying to do.
如果没有它，我根本没法做下去。
Without it, I couldn't do it.
对。
Yeah.
因为常规的
Because normative
你能放大一下去收集吗？
Could you magnify to go collect?
不行。
No.
不会，不行。
Would No.
它是
It's
不是终身的。
not lifetime.
只是用来收集这些数据的时间。
Time just to gather that data.
不行。
No.
但这是无数研究者多年积累的成果。
But this was a lifetime of people that have been studying this.
对吧？
Right?
有太多人在关注这个问题了。
There's an there's so many people looking
在这一点上，我必须问你，因为确实如此。
at What made you at this point, I gotta ask you this because Yeah.
据我所知，多发性硬化症本质上是神经信号传输的通路出了问题。
What what I know of MS is that the the the the essentially, the communication highway Yes.
保护神经的髓鞘正在受损。
The myelin sheaths, right, that protect the the nerves is down is is becoming damaged.
没错。
Yes.
所以信号没法传到目的地。
And so the signal's not getting to the place.
对。
Yes.
我一听这个，脑子里想的全是髓鞘。
When I hear that, I'm I'm focusing on the myelin sheath.
我根本没去想是什么让你走上这条路的。
I am not even thinking about what what made you go in
那个方向。
that direction.
他刚才说的。
What he said.
他的工程师布莱恩在考虑搭建一座桥梁。
His his engineer, Brian, thinks of creating a bridge.
他懂，因为我了解他
He knows because I know he
他知道那里根本没有路。
knew there was no road.
那条路被堵死了。
The road is locked there.
我正在努力搭建一条通道。
I'm trying to create a Right.
他们一直没能解决髓鞘的问题，也就是脱髓鞘的问题。
They haven't been able to fix the myelin issue, the demyelination issue.
对吧？
Right?
所以我觉得，他们根本解决不了。
So I'm like, they can't fix it.
那我该怎么办？
So what do I do?
我知道，我必须在破损的地方搭一座桥。
I I knew that I had to build some kind of bridge over the broken part.
但在那之前，你得先知道正常是什么样子。
But before you do that, you gotta know what normal looks like.
哦，我得弄清楚，到底要带什么东西过桥呢？
Oh, I I gotta know what what do I gotta get across the bridge?
我是要建一条铁路吗？
Am I building a railroad track?
对。
Yeah.
我是要建一条高速公路吗？
Am I building a highway?
我得搞清楚到底哪些信息必须传过去，因为他们根本说不清楚。
I gotta know what is that information that's gotta go across because they can't tell me.
明白了。
Got it.
因为我根本不知道那是什么，所以我得去找源头。
And and because I don't know what it is, I gotta go to source.
我得去问第一手的人。
I gotta go to first person.
他们是从哪儿开始的？
Where does they start?
因为只要我知道起点在哪，就能顺藤摸瓜。
Because once I know where it starts, then I can trace it.
明白了。
Got it.
明白了。
Got it.
所以你的想法是，先弄清楚这事儿到底怎么回事。
So you're thinking, let me figure this out first.
等我看清了情况
Once I see what's going on
那我就能知道到底发生了什么。
Then I'll what's going on.
那我就试着搭一座桥。
Then I'm gonna try and build a bridge.
然后我想
Then I'm trying to
搭一座桥。
build a bridge.
是的。
Yeah.
这看起来根本不可能。
Seems impossible.
这也太疯狂了。
That's crazy.
当然了。
Of course.
但问题是，这才是关键。
But but this is this is the thing.
我相信，我们面对的每一个挑战，上天早就为我们安排好了计划。
I believe that every challenge that we ever ever put in front of us, the big guy upstairs had a plan for us.
明白了。
Okay.
如果他没有赐予我建造方面的天赋，让我去学习和理解数学，我根本不可能做成这些事。
If I didn't if he didn't train me with his gifts of of building to understand and learn and mathematics, I couldn't do what I did.
所以，这功劳真不归我。
So don't I take any credit.
人家都说你太聪明了。
I was like, oh, you're so smart.
可这跟我一点关系都没有。
Go, I got nothing to do with that.
是的。
Mhmm.
我就是很坚定。
I'm determined.
那跟我一点关系都没有。
I got nothing to do with that.
我们的性格是上天赋予的。
Our personality is God given.
我完全相信这一点。
I believe this wholeheartedly.
你有动力是因为妈妈。
And you're motivated because it's mom.
因为我有动力，是因为我妈。
Because I'm motivated because it's my mom.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我有一份很棒的职业。
So I have a great career.
我在经济上完全独立。
I'm financially independent.
我的婚姻很美满。
I got a great marriage.
我的孩子都很出色。
I got great kids.
我照顾着我的父母。
I take care of my parents.
已完成。
Check mark.
已完成。
Check mark.
我把美国梦做到了极致。
I I knocked the American dream out of the park.
我完成了全垒打大满贯。
I hit for the cycle.
接下来呢？
Now what?
那接下来你打算做什么？
Now what do you do?
妈妈还在生病。
Mom's still sick.
所以动力是有的。
So the motivation is there.
这份渴望是存在的。
The desire is there.
好奇心也在，而且我有时间也有资源去做。
The curiosity is there, and I have the time and resources to do it.
要是没时间没资源，这事根本不可能成。
If I didn't have the time and resources, this wasn't gonna get done.
没人会相信，这个疯子居然能花十五年时间去搞懂这件事。
No one was gonna believe that this crazy guy was gonna sit there for fifteen years to figure this thing out.
没人愿意为它投资。
No one would invest in it.
所以如果我没有自己的资源来做这件事，这事根本不可能成。
So if I didn't have my own resources to do it, it wasn't gonna happen.
是的。
Yeah.
因为要为这个想法筹钱，根本行不通。
Because that's, trying to raise money for that idea.
没戏。
No chance.
不可能。
Impossible.
没错。
No.
没戏。
No chance.
对。
Yeah.
不是每个人都愿意投资。
Not everybody wants to invest.
我就说，不行。
I'm like, no.
不行。
No.
不行。
No.
不行。
No.
不行。
No.
谢谢。
Thanks.
在那五年里，当你努力开发软件的时候，你就开始整合这些数据了。
So in that so in that five year period when you're trying to you're you're creating the software, you start synthesizing this data.
第一次重大突破或者关键时刻是什么时候？
When was the first, like, breakthrough or moment?
那种时刻太多了。
There were so many.
所以你得慢慢缩小范围，对吧？
So you got to triangulate down, right?
明白了。
Okay.
因为你要处理的数据和计算量看起来是无穷无尽的，对吧？
Because there's seemingly an infinite amount of data and infinite amount of computations that you're trying to do, right?
所以你会想，我该从哪儿下手？
So you think, where do I start?
对吧？
Right?
后来我看到了一篇1964年做的研究。
So I come across this study done in 1964.
哇。
Wow.
挺老的研究了。
Old study.
在澳大利亚悉尼，由一位神经肌肉领域的牙医做的。
In Sydney, Australia by a neuromuscular dentist.
这内容真够奇怪的。
This is weird stuff.
神经肌肉牙医？
A neuromuscular dentist?
牙医。
Dentist.
哥们儿，我压根不知道还有这种人。
Dude, I didn't even know that
这行当存在。
was a thing.
这确实是一种专业领域。
It's a thing.
我的意思是，你当时在仔细研究自己的身体功能。
I mean, you were scouring your function.
把所有相关资料都翻了个遍。
Reading everything.
过去十七年里，我读了五万篇研究论文。
Like, I've read 50,000 research papers over the last seventeen years.
是的。
Yeah.
我就经历过，身边有亲人受苦，那时候你就是特别想找到答案。
So I'm just I've been there with a loved one where I you just you're just you're motivated.
你特别想搞清楚。
You're motivated.
把所有能找的东西都读一遍。
Read everything.
你之所以这样，是因为你不知道，而我也不知道。
You you because you because you don't know because I don't know.
对。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
学习过程中很重要的一点是学会排除无关内容。
So the part of the learning is disqualification, and this is important.
排除掉，这一点很重要。
Disqualify, and this is important.
排除掉，这很关键。
Disqualify, this is important.
但每当你读到一篇有价值、内容充实的论文，它后面往往跟着两百篇你必须跟进的参考文献。
But you can't but every time you read a paper that's worthy and that has informative, it's got 200 references that you also have to read.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
因为你没法把事情联系起来。
Because because you can't because you can't connect the dots.
哇。
Wow.
对吧？
Right?
这项研究是1964年在澳大利亚悉尼进行的。
So this research done in '64 in Sydney, Australia.
有位研究人员在观察神经功能。
There's this guy, he's taking a look at neuro function.
他研究的是大脑中不同核团如何影响前庭反应和平衡。
He's taking a look at how the different nuclei in our brain are impacting vestibular response and balance.
这让我一下子有共鸣了。
This is hitting like this is triggering me.
是的
Yeah.
这可太对我的胃口了
So this is right up
你这话说得正好戳我心窝里
your You're right up my alley.
是的
Yeah.
对
Mhmm.
他说，脑桥里有个红核
So he says that, hey, there's nuclei there's a red nuclei in the pons.
他还说，脑桥和中脑对前庭控制、平衡和稳定至关重要
He says the pons and the midbrain are critical for vestibular control, balance, and stability.
这正是妈妈失去的东西
This is what mom lost.
所以这对我的意义在于，这是第一年，就像这样，嗯。
So what this does for me and this is the first year because like, okay.
这样一来，范围就缩小了。
This this this narrows the field.
是的。
Yeah.
现在你可以用这个去查找其他研究了。
Now you can start to use this to search for other studies.
现在我知道该从哪里开始找第一个网络了。
Now now I know where am I gonna start looking for the first network?
对吧？
Right?
不用再遍览整个大脑了，我知道了，比如说。
Instead of looking at the whole brain, I know that, hey.
如果这个前庭系统确实主要由大脑的这个区域控制，那我就清楚该从哪个布罗德曼分区入手，再从那里逐步锁定范围。
If this is if if this vestibular system is is is isolated or predominantly controlled by this region of the brain that I know which area of the Broadman areas that I have to start focusing on that triangulate from there.
这就像是你原本在整片海洋里瞎找，现在一下子缩小到大西洋了。
It's like you were searching in the total vast of all the oceans, and you've just narrowed it down to the Atlantic.
就只是这样。
Just that.
没错。
Yeah.
所以现在我们是——
So now now we're So
以前是在整个宇宙里找，现在我只盯着这一个星座了。
instead of the Atlantic looking into spaces in all the galaxies, now I'm just looking at this one constellation.
对吧。
Right.
对吧。
Right?
好了，这么说吧。
And say, okay.
我就从这儿开始。
This is where I'm gonna start.
都是前辈们的研究成果。
Work done by giants.
我当时就想，嘿。
So I was like, hey.
嘿，朋友。
Hey, dude.
你瞧这儿。
Look here.
事实就是这样。
And that's what it was.
所以事情就是从这儿开始的。
So it started with that.
我最早注意到这一点，是从研究中脑开始的，看看那些不同的核团，它们彼此之间是怎么连接的，向哪些区域发送信号，又和哪些部分相互关联。
And the first inkling that I had of where it was was was starting to look at the midbrain, the different nuclei, what do they connect, what do they broadcast in, what are they connecting with.
随着时间推移，这最终发展成了一个诊断工具，它告诉我们：注意。
And this over time led to this this it's really a die it's it's it's a diagnostic tool that says, hey.
我们已经分析了所有这些数据。
We've looked at all of this data.
这里出现了一些反复出现的网络模式，一再重复。
Here are common patterns of networks that are appearing over and over and over and over again.
如果某个模式只在50%的数据里出现，我就不会在意，因为我的理论是，它必须在99%的数据里都存在。
And if they only appear in 50%, I'm not interested because I the theory was that they have to exist across 99% of that database.
它必须非常普遍。
It's got to be really common.
极其普遍。
Really common.
没错。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
根据其他人的研究，我推断出前庭反应网络，然后我就找到了它。
So based on other people's research, I deduce what I believe is the vestibular response network and I go, Here it is.
接着我拿出了我妈妈历年做脑电图的全部数据。
And then I have my mom's EEGs from every year we do an EEG for my mom.
当我把她的脑电图和这个数据库、这个网络做对比时，她的数值偏低。
And when I compare her EEG against that database, against that network, she's below.
如果这个前庭反应网络的正常范围是这样一个区间——毕竟它有个活动范围的话。
So if this is the normative bandwidth for that vestibular response database, because there's a band it operates in.
对吧？
Right?
她的数值比这个范围还低。
Hers is lower.
真惊人。
Wow.
你在做这些分析的时候，是不是心里还希望，结果能有点不一样？
And and while you're doing this, you're like, this I hope this looks different.
因为如果结果不对，你还是会希望——想象一下，你希望能看到一些变化。
Because because it would have I mean, imagine if it wasn't right, but you're like, hope this I hope I see a difference.
这就是关键。
This is the thing.
我很久以前就明白了。
So I learned a long time ago.
具体是哪一刻，我也说不准。
I don't know where exact moment.
我早就学会把努力和结果分开来看。
I learned a long time ago to disassociate the effort from the outcome.
是的。
Yeah.
不然你早就放弃了。
Otherwise, you would have given up.
不然你早就放弃了。
Otherwise, you give up.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
没错
Right.
你就放弃了
You quit.
对吧
Right?
如果你能分开来看，我就过来这儿
If you can isolate, just put I'll come over here.
我来干这个
I'm gonna do the do.
好
Yeah.
咱们来看看这到底是什么。
And we're gonna see what it is.
我就是那种特别好奇的人，一心想去学，别的什么都不管。
So being that curious person, that student that's I'm gonna go learn, nothing else I'm gonna learn.
对。
Mhmm.
对吧？
Right?
我看到那会儿，好几天都没睡。
And it was such like, if I didn't sleep for days when when I saw that.
我当时就想，这太离谱了。
I go, this is insane.
因为那很明显。
Because it was very clear.
那简直太清楚了。
It was so clear.
是的。
Yeah.
所以自然而然地，你就会去验证它。
And so then what do you do naturally is you go prove it.
于是我收集了其他多发性硬化症患者的脑电图数据。
So you I got EEGs from other people with MS.
我正想问这个。
I was just gonna ask.
然后你再找其他多发性硬化症患者，结果都是一样的。
Then you're gonna get other people with MS, it's the same thing.
你看到了一致性。
You saw consistency.
下面也是一致的。
Consistency below.
哦，原来如此。
Oh, light bulbs.
这一定很让人兴奋吧。
That's gotta be exciting.
叮。
Bing.
叮。
Bing.
叮。
Bing.
我当时就心想：没错。
I'm like Yep.
很多时候，我早上都会醒过来，然后跟老婆说：你看这个。
A lot of like, like, I would wake up my wife in the morning like, this
就是这个，醒过来。
is this is Wake up.
我觉得有什么东西。
I'm like something.
我们发现了一些东西。
This is we found something.
她问我，你怎么会发现这个？
She's like, why did you find something?
跟她说说到底是什么。
Tell her what it was.
她说，我说，这些向量是这样的。
She goes, I go, the vectors are like this.
然后她问，你现在在说啥呀？
And then she's like, what are you talking about right now?
对吧？
Right?
不过没关系。
But it's okay.
因为我完全进入极客模式了。
Because I'm in full, like, geek mode.
然后我就说，好吧。
And then I go, okay.
还有什么别的真相吗？
What else is true?
那些无法自主控制的人，指的是肌肉不受自己控制的人。
So people that have no control, these are people that have involuntary control of their muscles.
对吧？
Right?
如果有人肌肉痉挛、压力大这类问题，我把他们的神经网络接入后
So if you have people that have muscle spastic issues, stress issues, stuff like this, and I put their network in
他们就能达到百分之百的状态。
So they are a 100.
这就像是一个小小的提升。
It's a bump.
哇哦。
Wow.
你本来会怎么想？
What you would expect?
老兄。
Bro.
我觉得这太厉害了。
Well, I'm like, this is wicked.
是的。
Yeah.
但我也不确定。
But I don't know.
所以我跟你一样。
So I'm just I'm like you.
咱们看看上面怎么说。
I'm like, let's see what it says.
对。
Yeah.
把数据放进去，然后就‘叮’一声。
Put the data in and goes ping.
对啊。
Yeah.
是不是？
Right?
我当时就想，这太酷了。
I was like, this is very cool.
我就想，这应该是网络的问题。
And I go, I think this is the network.
然后你就盯着它看。
So then you're looking at it.
我就想，那现在怎么办？
And I go, so now what?
好吧。
Okay.
很好，杰。
Great, Jay.
你花了这么多时间、精力和钱。
You spent all this time, energy, and money.
你把这件事做成了。
You've done this thing.
那你是什么时候发现这个的？过了多久？
And how long until when was it when you figured this out?
多少年了？
How many years?
这是2014年的事。
This is 2014.
明白了。
Okay.
所以你是2009年开始的？
So you started in 2009?
是的
Yeah.
从2000年2月到2008年底，也就是2009年。
02/2000 end of two thousand eight, 2009.
这是2014年。
This is 2014.
所以这是五年后了。
So this is five years later.
这是
This is
五年。
five years.
你的第一次突破。
Your first breakthrough.
就是我能看清楚一些东西了。
Like, that I could see something.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
没错
Yeah.
明白
Yeah.
对吧
Right?
能坚持那么久，真不容易。
Well, the discipline to go that long.
你妈妈是做什么的？
What's your mom, dude?
就是个妈妈啊。
It's a mom, bro.
这事儿你肯定也干得出来。
Nothing you wouldn't do.
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
在我和上帝之间，还有我妈。
Between me and god, there's mom.
是的。
Yeah.
我就是这么来到这里的。
That's how I came here.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yep.
对吧？
Right?
那里有一种联系，我觉得特别深刻——我是说，就我自己的感受而言。
There's a connection there that feel ultimate I think everybody's I speak for myself.
在上帝之后，我妈妈就是我的创造者。
My mom is my creator after God.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
所以我愿意为她做任何事。
And so I'll do anything for her.
对。
Mhmm.
这就是支撑你继续走下去的原因。
And so that's what keeps you going.
我那时候有经济独立的优势，虽然确实花了不少钱。
And and the advantage that I had of financial independence was that, yeah, it was costly.
而且耗时很长。
It was timely.
需要极大的决心，但我想不到还有什么比这更值得追求的事了。
It there was a lot of determination that's required, but I couldn't think of a more nobler thing to pursue than that.
到那时候你一共投了多少钱？
How how much money at this point did you invest?
那时候我大概投了四百五十万。
At that point, I was about 4 and a half in.
百万？
Million?
是的。
Yeah.
天啊。
Wow.
天啊。
Wow.
这是你的钱？
This is your money?
是的。
Yeah.
天啊。
Wow.
天啊。
Wow.
天啊。
Wow.
好吧。
Okay.
到目前为止，我40岁了。
Oh, to date, I'm 40.
你投了四千万自己的钱进去？
40,000,000 of your own money in?
是的。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
哇。
Wow.
好吧。
Okay.
所以你是说，这真是一个
So you're So this is a
兄弟，这真是信念十足啊。
Talk about conviction, bro.
你得有相当强的
You gotta have some serious
等一下。
Hold on.
你老婆对这事怎么看？
How's your wife with this?
所以五年下来，你一直在往这事儿里砸钱，而且
So five years in, you're just throwing money at this thing and
我很幸运，三次都大获成功。
So I was very fortunate to hit it out of the park three times in big ways.
我那时候有能力承担得起。
I didn't I could afford it.
是的。
Okay.
对吧？
Right?
如果我负担不起，根本就做不成这件事。
If I couldn't afford it, I couldn't I couldn't have done it.
当然。
Sure.
对吧？
Right?
你一开始就知道吗？
Did you go in knowing that?
你有没有想过，这会赚上千万？
Did you know, like, I'm going this is gonna be millions.
我完全没想到。
I had no idea.
哦，你挺好的。
Oh, you're okay.
我完全没想到。
I had no idea.
天啊。
Wow.
因为我真的不知道。
Because I don't know.
因为我是从我自己的经历出发的，我从13岁就开始研究神经学，那时候妈妈病了。
Because I'm starting from from what I what I've because I've been studying neurology since I was 13 years old since mom got sick.
但一路上总该有人提醒过吧，这得花上千万美元。
I mean, there had have been somebody though along the way that's just like, this is gonna cost millions of dollars.
没有。
No.
因为没人会说，我们根本不知道自己在找什么。
Because no one would because we didn't know what we were looking for.
从来没人试过这么做。
Nobody's ever tried to do it.
对吧？
Right?
而且我认识不少纽约和多伦多的人。
And the few like, I I know a lot of people in in New York and Toronto.
这些可是重要的金融中心啊。
I mean, these are big financial centers.
嘿，
Like, hey.
我有了个想法。
Got this idea.
他们就问：你这是在干什么？
And they're like, what are you doing?
是的。
Yeah.
你疯了吗？
Are you insane?
我倒是觉得可能吧，但我想问的是，关键在于
I'm like, possibly, but this is I go, my question is what
什么？
if?
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
所以要投入这么多时间和精力。
So it's that much time and energy into it.
接下来的问题就是，那现在怎么办？
And then the question is, so now what?
我要怎么继续帮助我妈妈呢？
How question is, how do I still help my mom?
于是我回到最初的假设。
So then I go back to the first premise.
如果这些波动确实导致了那种生理反应，对吧？
If these waves are responsible for that physical response, right
对。
Mhmm.
我能不能把她在神经网络中的这些波动调整到正常状态？
Can I move those waves in her network into normative function?
那之后会怎么样？
And then what will that do?
那接下来会发生什么？
And what will happen then?
是的。
Yeah.
所以现在的问题是
So now the question is
你怎么
How do you
你该怎么调整这些波动？
do you move those?
你该怎么调整这些波动？
How do you move those waves?
好的。
Okay.
那接下来你会怎么做？
So where does that take you?
所以你会想，我该怎么操作呢？
So then you're like, how do I do this?
对吧？
Right?
我第一个想到的是药物治疗。
So I mean, my first thought is pharmacology.
我就是这么想的。
That's what I'm thinking.
但我已经试过了。
But we've I've tried it.
没错。
That's right.
没错。
That's right.
对。
Yeah.
我们试过。
We've tried it.
对。
Yeah.
你们也试过
You guys We tried
整整二十五年。
it for twenty five years.
所以你不能
So you can't you
我知道我试过神经传导。
know I've tried nerve conduction.
我看过这个，确实如此。
I've looked at it Mhmm.
但它始终没能跨越鸿沟。
And it didn't it didn't cross the chasm.
所谓的隧道尽头的光，其实总是迎面而来的火车。
It didn't it didn't the the light at the end of the tunnel was always a train.
你知不知道，我和我妈有多少次感觉自己像威利·科伊特？
Like, do you know how many times my mom and I felt like Wile E.
沿着铁轨一路冲下去？
Coyote, you're going down that train track?
是的。
Yeah.
你以为是曙光，结果却是火车？
You think it's daylight, but it's a train?
对。
Yeah.
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