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如果你想锻炼身体、开阔眼界，只有一个地方值得去。
If you wanna pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.
Mind Pump。
Mind Pump.
Mind Pump。
Mind Pump.
由主持人萨尔·迪·斯特凡诺、亚当·谢弗和贾斯汀·安德鲁斯为您带来。
With your hosts, Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews.
你刚刚找到了最受欢迎的健身、健康与娱乐播客，播放量即将突破五亿。
You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast approaching over half a billion downloads.
这就是 Mind Pump。
It's Mind Pump.
本期节目，我们回答了粉丝们在我们的 Instagram 账号 Mind Pump Media 上提出的问题。
Today's episode, we answered questions that people posted on our Instagram page, Mind Pump Media.
我们选了其中四个来解答。
We answered four of them.
这事儿发生在开场之后。
This was after the intro.
今天的开场白长达五十二分钟。
Today's intro is fifty two minutes long.
我们聊健身和增肌，也聊减脂，还讨论一些科研研究，还有家庭生活。
We talk about fitness and muscle gain, fat loss, talk about scientific studies, family life.
每次都特别有意思。
Always a good time.
本期节目由几位赞助商支持。
Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors.
第一个是Paleo Valley。
The first one is Paleo Valley.
今天我们聊了他们的肉棒。
Today, we talked about their meat sticks.
每根含有六克蛋白质。
Six grams of protein each.
一天吃四根。
Eat four of four of them a day.
每天多摄入24克蛋白质，只增加280大卡。
Boost your protein 24 grams, only 280 calories.
这是补充额外蛋白质的好方法，既好吃，又接近天然完整的食物。
A great way to eat a little extra, give you some of that protein that you need, and eat something that's delicious and very close to something that's whole natural.
这些是肉条，加工程度极低。
These are meat sticks, minimal minimally processed.
味道非常好。
They're delicious.
用的是草饲牛肉。
They're grass fed meat.
去了解一下吧。
Go check them out.
访问 paleovalley.com/mindpump。
Go to paleovalley.com/mindpump.
通过这个链接可以享受八五折优惠。
That link will get you 15% off.
本期节目由 mphormones.com 赞助播出。
This episode is also brought to you by mphormones.com.
你看。
Look.
去那里预约一次免费的十分钟咨询，跟会员专员聊聊，看看激素疗法和肽疗法是否适合你。
Go there and book a complimentary ten minute consultation with a membership specialist to see if hormone therapy and peptide therapy are for you.
今天，我们聊了他们的CLOW组合。
Today, we talked about their CLOW stack.
这个组合能加速恢复，让皮肤看起来棒极了。
This stack speeds up recovery, makes your skin look amazing.
这是一套由BPC-157、TB-500、GHK-Cu和KPV组成的肽类组合，不过他们还有很多其他产品。
It is a peptide stack of BPC-one hundred fifty seven, TB-five hundred, GHK CU, and KPV, but they have many, many others.
同样，你可以去mphormones.com预约一个免费的十分钟咨询。
Again, you could book a complimentary ten minute consultation at mphormones.com.
我们还推出了全新的MAPS训练计划，叫MAPS上下肢分化训练。
We also have a brand new MAPS workout program, MAPS Upper Lower.
这是一个四天的增肌训练安排。
It's a four day muscle building split.
我们分别设计了男性版和女性版。
We have a men and women's version.
现在有六折优惠。
It's 40% off.
去 mapsupperlower.com 了解一下。
Go to mapsupperlower.com.
使用代码 launch，就能享受六折优惠。
Use the code launch for 40% off.
好的。
Alright.
顺便说一下。
Real quick.
如果我们像你们爱我们一样爱你们，为什么不穿件我们的T恤、戴顶帽子、用个马克杯，或者穿上我们的训练装备来支持我们呢？去 mindpumpstore.com 看看吧。
If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com?
我现在说的就是这个。
I'm talking right now.
暂停一下。
Hit pause.
赶紧去 mindpumpstore.com。
Head on over to mindpumpstore.com.
就这么简单。
That's it.
继续享受接下来的节目吧。
Enjoy the rest of the show.
好的。
Alright.
你正在考虑去锻炼。
You're thinking about working out.
你想塑形健身。
You wanna get in shape.
只是还不清楚哪种锻炼方式适合你。
You just don't know what the right workout is for you.
该选哪种呢？
What should it be?
具体该怎么做？
What should it look like?
多久练一次？
How often?
我们现在就来聊聊，怎么帮你根据目标选出最适合的锻炼方案。
We're gonna talk about that right now, how we can help you pick the right workout for your goals.
你打算怎么继续？
Where are you going
往下走？
with this?
我们开始吧。
Let's go.
你到底想说什么？
Where are you going with this?
这个问题其实很多人常问。
Well, just it's a question people often ask.
那正确的做法是……
What's the right way to
面对这种模糊的问题，该怎么处理？
work with vague question.
我就是想搞清楚你到底想表达什么。
It's such I'm trying to figure out where you're going with it.
问题是，亚当，有人跑来问你，我怎么知道该选什么样的训练计划，
Well, the question is, Adam, somebody comes up to you and says, how do I know what the like, how do I pick the right
我现在就能告诉你，贾斯汀和我都知道，我们第一句肯定会回你：这得看情况。
I know what propose that right now, and Justin and I have nothing to say because we know the very first thing we're gonna say back to you is, well, that depends.
没错。
That's right.
说到底，你的目标是什么？
Know, what is it what are your goals?
你现在平时都做些什么？
What do you do currently right now?
你干这行有多久了？
How long you've been working
啊？
out for?
我先说第一点，我很想听听你们的看法。
Here's the first thing, and I and I'd love your guys' opinion on this.
我相信你们都同意，我觉得选健身方式时，第一件该考虑的事是：你喜不喜欢？
I'm sure you guys all agree, but I think the first thing people need to consider when picking a workout is, do you enjoy it?
这话听起来可能有点傻，因为有人会想：我就是想赶紧看到效果。
Now that sounds stupid to someone because someone's like, I just wanna get these results.
我就想减掉身上的脂肪。
I just wanna burn body fat.
我就想随便做点什么。
I just wanna whatever.
但说实话，你只要喜欢做的事，只要方式合适，那就很重要。
But the truth is, the thing you enjoy doing, again, so long as it's appropriate.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
我正想说呢。
I was just gonna
得小心点这么说，因为我觉得很多人其实享受痛苦和自我惩罚。
say that that that there's a bit of that's a you gotta be careful when you say that because I feel like there's a lot of people who, find enjoyment in suffering, and punishing themselves.
即使和自己的目标不一致，他们也享受某种运动带来的感觉。
Find enjoyment playing a playing a sport even though that doesn't align with their goal.
我不太想一开始就这么说。
Like, so I don't like to lead off with this.
但我认为很重要的一点是，如果这个人想长期坚持下去，你就得学会真正喜欢上你正在做的事。
I do think that it's important to note that you if this person is going to be consistent long term, that you have to you have to learn to love or enjoy the thing that you're doing.
不过在现在的对话里一上来就讲这个，反而会让很多人陷入失败，因为很多人对运动的态度都很糟糕。
But leading off with this in this conversation to me sets a lot of people up for failure because a lot of people have a terrible relationship.
首先，他们根本不知道自己到底喜欢或不喜欢什么运动，也没体验过什么是健康、平衡的运动方式。
First of all, with exercise, they don't even know what they like or don't like, or they've never experienced what a a good healthy relationship or balance with exercise looks like.
其次，他们选的运动项目，虽然自认为喜欢，却和自己的目标根本不匹配。
Or two, the modality that they choose because they quote unquote love it doesn't align with the goal and the outcome.
对吧？
Right?
不过，这其实更多说明，你得跟教练好好聊聊。
Well, this, again, speaks more to, like, having a a meeting with a with a coach
来慢慢理清一下。
to kind
来识别这些问题。
of identify these things.
对吧？
Right?
因为正如你所说，我觉得人们未必清楚从专业角度来看什么方案最适合自己。
Because I don't, to your point, don't necessarily think people, you know, have the right idea of what would be best in like prescriptive wise.
我觉得确实有点误导人，比如他们情感上想做的事，或者说是他们觉得好的事，实际上可能对他们并没有最大的益处。
Like I think that, yeah, it could be a bit misleading, like what they emotionally wanna do or like, you know, it might not actually be the most beneficial for them.
好，这就对了，非常完美。
Well, that's per that's perfect.
你们聊的方向特别棒。
Where you guys are going is perfect.
这对话质量翻倍了，因为你说得完全正确。
That's that's twice as a good conversation because you're a 100% right.
有多少人会在运动这件事上自欺欺人？是的。
How many times do people lie Yeah.
他们对自己真正喜欢做什么这件事上撒谎了吗？
To themselves about what they enjoy doing?
是的。
Yeah.
人们总是说：‘我每天都特别喜欢跑步。’
You know, people are like, oh, I love running every single day.
但当你尝试其他方式来取得更好效果时，才发现原来自己并没那么喜欢跑步。
And then you try a different modality to get better results, and suddenly, I actually didn't like running so much.
要回答这个问题其实挺有讲究的，因为这里面有微妙之处。
I guess a good way to answer it, because it's there's nuance to it.
我们马上就会谈到这一点。
We're gonna get to that.
但你可以问自己一个问题：如果这么做完全得不到任何效果，你还会做吗？
But one way to answer this is like, would you do this if you got no results from it?
对。
Mhmm.
对。
Mhmm.
如果你做这项运动，却得不到任何成效，你还会继续做吗？
Would you do this form of activity if all you got from it was you that you just did that activity?
这其实是个很好的方法，来判断你是不是真的喜欢它。
Like, that's a really good way to know whether or not you enjoy it.
当有人这么说的时候，这样问确实是个不错的切入点。
I mean, and that's a great way to position that when you get somebody who says something like that.
对吧？
Right?
比如有人跟你说，我就是想练出个翘臀，或者想变成那样，但我超爱跑马拉松。
Where they tell you something like, hey, I really wanna build this butt or I wanna look this way, but I love running marathons.
是的。
Yeah.
所以你可以问他们，如果跑马拉松根本没法让你练出翘臀，也没法让你变那样，你还会跑吗？
And so you ask them like, well, if running marathons never got you that body or never got you that butt
你还是会继续做。
You still do it.
你会吗
Would you
还是会继续做吗？
still do it?
是的。
Uh-huh.
如果他们说，是的，我真的很喜欢。
And if they say, yes, I love them.
明白了。
Okay.
那我们就得想办法
Well, then then we gotta find a way to
把它们融入进去。
include out.
咱们得想办法安排一些跑步，让你能享受其中，因为我觉得这对整体健康很重要。
We gotta find a way to include some some runs in there to to let you enjoy that because I think that's important to overall health.
没错。
Exactly.
这就像是在问，如果你拥有了全世界的财富，你会做什么工作来谋生？通常人们会说出自己真正享受的事情。
It's like the question of like, what would you do for a living if you if you had all the money in the world and what tend to come out as a thing that someone would enjoy.
对。
Right.
对。
Right.
但当我这么问的时候，最常见的回答是：我有个朋友天天跑步，身材特别好。
But the answer you you you you typically get when I say that and I position it like that, I almost always get the, well, my friend who runs all the time, she's got this great ass.
他们总会提到这个，或者说：我这辈子状态最好的时候，就是……
They they will always point to that or they were, well, I was in the best shape of my life
对。
Right.
我以前每年跑两三个马拉松，现在就想重新回到那种状态。
When I used to run, you know, two or three marathons a year, and so I just wanna get back to that.
是的。
Yeah.
所以你也面临着另一个类似的处境，
And so so that you you you also are positioned with this this other
没错。
That's right.
挑战就在于此。
Challenge.
因为你完全说对了。
Because what comes you're a 100% right.
我刚才那番话其实太过简化了。
Because what I said was a super oversimplification.
比如，如果做这件事根本得不到任何回报，你还会享受它吗？
Like, would you enjoy doing this if it gave you no results?
说得太简单了，因为在现实生活中，决定你是否喜欢所做之事的原因有很多。第一点，我喜欢做这件事，仅仅是因为我喜欢做。
Super oversimplification because in real life, what contributes to whether or not you like what you do is a or one, I enjoy doing it because I just enjoy doing it.
对。
Mhmm.
但另一方面，这件事能给我带来什么，也会增加我的乐趣。
But then it's also what it does for me, which contributes to my enjoyment.
对吧？
Right?
比如，你可能会因为这项活动带给你的感受而爱上它，是的。
Like, you can fall in love with it in activity because of how it makes you feel Yeah.
也会因为它能提升你的生活品质。
And because of how it improves the quality of your life.
所以这两者往往很难完全分开。
So you can't necessarily separate the two.
完全同意。
A 100%.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
作为教练，我把这些看作是关键点。
And as a coach, I consider these like hot buttons.
如果有人详细描述说，比如，我特别喜欢跑步。
So if somebody's, like describes in detail, like, you know, I really love running.
我一直都喜欢，你知道的，那我就知道这种运动方式让他们感到愉快，我就能据此推荐一些真正适合他们的项目，因为我知道他们会持续参与。
I've always loved, you know, so I know that like that form of movement is enjoyable for them and I can kind of like start catering prescribing something that like would actually benefit them because I know they're gonna keep showing up.
不对。
No.
这让我想起多年前带过的一个客户。
I had a woman this reminds me of a client I had years ago.
这位女性当时大概快五十岁了。
This woman that I trained, she was in her at the time, I think late forties.
她找上我，是因为她最喜欢跳舞，但最近开始出现一些持续的小疼痛。
And she wanted to hire me because she started to get kind of nagging aches and pains from her favorite form of exercise or activity, which was dancing.
对。
Mhmm.
她跳萨尔萨舞，一周大概跳四天。
So she did salsa dancing, and I think she did like four days a week.
她跳得特别好。
She was really good at it.
她跳了这么多年。
She did it for years.
跳舞让她保持得很好，但她后来来找我，是因为那些小毛病越来越明显。
It kept her pretty darn fit, and she came to me because she started getting kind of these nagging issues.
是的。
Yeah.
她对力量训练其实没什么兴趣，只是听说力量训练能缓解这类疼痛，才来问问。
And so she really had no interest in strength training aside from the fact that she heard that strength training could prevent some of these aches and pains.
所以我做的就是通过力量训练，帮她继续做她最爱的运动。
And so what I did is we applied strength training as a way to allow her to continue to do the thing that she loved so much.
这就是为什么这个问题特别重要，因为你如果真的很喜欢游泳、骑车、打篮球或者徒步，而这些运动你纯粹是因为喜欢才做的，那其他类型的锻炼完全可以、也应该用来帮你维持这项爱好。
And this is why this is such an important question because if you really enjoy swimming or you really enjoy cycling or you really enjoy basketball or hiking, and it's just something you really love to do just for the sake of doing it, other modalities of exercise can be used and probably should be used to help or to allow you to continue it.
没错。
That's right.
帮你继续做你喜欢的事。
To help you continue to do the thing.
但这对每个人来说都特别重要。
But it's so important everybody.
这其实是个很复杂的问题。
And this is a very complex question.
听起来很简单，但我之前说得太简单了。
It sounds very simple, and I oversimplified it earlier.
但这个问题真的很重要，因为如果你做的运动是你讨厌的、甚至憎恶的，我知道在听的各位一定懂我在说什么。
But it's such an important question because if the thing that you're doing for exercise is something that you hate, that you despise, and I know people listening know exactly what I'm talking about.
我们都经历过那种情况，明明不喜欢，却还是去做，只因为觉得这对身体有好处。
We've all gone through that thing where we do that thing because we think it's good for us.
没错。
Right.
但每天早上醒来，一想到得去锻炼，就头疼。
But we wake up in the morning like, oh, I gotta go do that workout.
我真的受不了。
I hate it.
如果你一直讨厌它，那肯定坚持不下去。
If you always hate it, you you're not gonna do it.
根本行不通。
It's just not gonna work.
不可能持之以恒。
It's not gonna be consistent.
没人能天天做自己讨厌的事，这不现实。
Nobody does something that they hate every single day It's not
这是一个不错的策略。
a good strategy.
除非被逼到没办法，否则很多人多年都不会坚持。
For years and years and years unless they're absolutely forced.
所以，喜欢这件事其实没那么简单。
So enjoying it is is a is a bit more complex.
接下来我们会聊聊这些方面。
And so we'll get to to some of that stuff.
但你必须喜欢它，或者学会喜欢它。
But it has to be something that you enjoy or you can learn to enjoy.
否则，这事根本不可能持续下去。
Otherwise, this isn't gonna happen.
我觉得这个问题太关键了，关键到无论你怎么回答，都该反过来质疑自己的看法。
I mean, I I think it's such an important question so much so that whatever you answer, you should even question your own beliefs.
完全正确。
Totally.
因为我觉得，至少在我的经验里，超过一半跟我说他们热爱这件事，或者认为这是他们该做、想做的事，以期达成某个目标的人，其实都搞错了。
Because I think that at least in my experience, more than half the people that told me that this is what they love to do or believe that this is what they should do or wanted to do to get whatever said result were wrong.
他们对自己真正喜欢什么产生了误解。
We're wrong about what they what they liked.
他们之所以这么想，是因为他们跟这件事有过某种关系，哪怕这种关系很糟糕，甚至是虐待性质的，把它当成一种惩罚。
They they they thought that because they had this relationship with it, whether it was a bad one or abusive, where it was a punishment thing.
确实如此。
Mhmm.
他们觉得在训练中把自己逼到极限是一种宣泄，所以他们就告诉自己，自己很喜欢这么做。
And they felt cathartic when they when they beat themselves up in the workout, and therefore they told themselves they love to do it.
或者第二种情况，他们认同自己过去某个阶段的身体状态，同时也在进行这种训练方式。
Or two, they identified with a way their body looked at one point in their lives while they were also doing said modality.
又或者他们有一个非常敬佩、想要效仿的朋友，就照着对方的训练方法来练。
Or they've got a friend who they admire and look up to, and that's how they train.
确实是这样。
Yeah.
所以，我真的记不清有多少次了，对。
And so there's like I mean, I can't tell you how many Yeah.
有人告诉我
Times someone has told me this
是
is
我喜欢做的事，或者我爱做的事，结果都错了。
what I enjoy to do or I love to do that was wrong.
对。
Yeah.
而且你知道这有多重要吗，亚当？因为听节目的人里，我敢保证肯定有人会说：我什么都不喜欢。
And you know what's important about this, Adam, is because someone listening is probably I guarantee there's people who are like, I don't like anything.
我不喜欢任何形式的体力活动或锻炼。
I don't like any form of physical activity or exercise.
那我该怎么办呢？
So what do I do now?
我现在就告诉你该怎么做，因为作为教练和训练师，我就是这么做的。
And I'm gonna tell you right now what you do because this is what I did as a coach and a trainer.
作为教练，你要学会找到这个方法。
You figure this out, by the way, as a coach.
当你长期训练别人时，你会慢慢意识到，我最重要的任务其实是——必须把人练对了。
When you train people for a long enough period of time, you start to realize that the most important thing I can do and I gotta train people properly.
得确保他们动作规范，别受伤，该做的都做到位。
I gotta make sure they exercise the right way, don't hurt themselves, you know, do all the right stuff.
但作为教练，我最该做的，是让每次训练都变得让人享受。
But the most important thing I could do as a coach is make this an enjoyable session every time you show up.
当然，这其中有办法。
And so there are ways to do this.
那具体该怎么做呢？
What does this look like?
比如说，你决定每天都要散步。
Well, let's say you're like, look, I'm gonna walk every day.
我打算每天走够一万两千步。
I'm gonna make sure I get, you know, 12,000 steps a day.
这就是我打算先开始的锻炼方式。
That's the form of exercise I'm gonna start with.
我真不喜欢做这个。
I hate doing it.
我讨厌大老远出去走那么久。
I hate going outside and walking for that that long.
我这么讨厌，该怎么才能让它变得有趣呢？
I hate doing how can I make this something I enjoy?
我打算和朋友一起去。
I'm gonna go with my friend.
我朋友也和我一样坚持这么做。
And my friend is also committed to this.
我们聊天特别开心，还能见面聚一聚。
And you know, we have the best conversations, and I get to see my friend and hang out with them.
所以我就打算这么做了。
So that's what I'm gonna do.
或者我一边走一边听书。
Or I'm gonna listen to a book while I do it.
又或者我去那个氛围特别好的健身房。
Or I'm gonna go to this gym that has this great community.
我真正期待的、喜欢这项运动的原因，其实是那里的人。
And the thing I actually look forward to and the reason why I enjoy it is the people that are there.
有些方法能让你爱上一件事，也有些方法会让你彻底讨厌它。
So there are ways to make your to help yourself enjoy some and there also are ways to help you to make yourself hate something.
比如说，有个特别有效的方法能让你讨厌一件事。
Like, here's a great way to make you hate something.
明白吗？
Okay?
就是练得太狠，每次练完都后悔，走的时候感觉快死了。
That you do it so hard that each time regret that you actually did that workout, where you leave and you feel like you're dying.
这样锻炼，肯定会让你讨厌运动。
This is a great way to hate working out.
我知道有些人就喜欢这样。
And I know sometimes people love that.
你要是长期这么练，迟早会厌烦的。
You keep doing that long enough and you're gonna hate it.
我跟你保证。
I promise you.
每次锻炼都像从鬼门关走一遭，迟早有一天你会醒过来，心想：我真的不想再干了。
If every workout feels like you survived, at some point, you're gonna wake up and be like, I really don't wanna do this.
这可是毁掉你和运动关系的捷径。
It's a fast track to a bad relationship with exercise.
我来回应一下你刚才说的这个常见情况，确实很多人会说：我什么都不喜欢。
Let me let me address the the common one that you just said because it is common that you would get a client that would say something like, I don't like anything.
我哪一样都不喜欢。
I don't like any of that.
更常见的情况，甚至可以说是总是这样，这个人试过五份工作，但都没拿到报酬。
It's more often, if not always, the person who it's like they've had five jobs that they've tried, and none of them paid them.
他们去新公司干了六个月，既没发工资，也没拿到钱，还特别讨厌那份工作。
They went to work for six months at this new job, and they got no check and they got no pay, and they hated it.
于是他们换了下一份工作。
So they went to the next job.
结果还是一样。
Same thing.
所以他们对这份工作，或者所有这些方式，都产生了负面情绪。
And then so their relationship with that work or all the all those modalities Yeah.
原因很简单，投入和回报完全不成正比。
Is horrible because the ROI was terrible.
没错。
That's right.
这百分百说得对。
Now That's a 100%.
如果我能告诉你一种方法，让你明白，回报率并不总是体现在体型、体脂率这些指标上。
If I can show you a way to get and by the way, ROI isn't always mirror and scale and body fat percentage to the point where you're going.
如果我能告诉你，饭后只是散个十分钟的步，就能让消化变好、睡眠变佳，进而让你心情也变好。
If I can show you how just adding a walk for ten minutes after your meals Yep.
如果我能把这些联系讲清楚，那十分钟散步——
All of a sudden makes your digestion better and you sleep better, which then makes your mood better.
嗯，
If I can connect those dots for you, a ten minute walk Yeah.
是的，
Yeah.
我就能开始享受这个过程了，因为我能看到它的价值。
I can I can start to enjoy that because I I can I can connect the ROI?
这样，我就有了可以继续推进的基础。
Then And I have something to build on.
是的。
Yeah.
然后，如果我能让你看到，嘿。
And then if I could show you, hey.
如果我们每周只做五组深蹲，是的。
If we just did five sets of squats in a week Yeah.
就这么简单。
That's it.
别的什么都不用做。
Nothing else.
只要我帮你把力量提升起来，再配合合理的饮食。
And I and I show you strength gains because I balance that out with proper nutrition.
疼痛减轻了。
Pain goes down.
没错。
Yeah.
疼痛减轻了。
Pain goes down.
力量提升了，臀部也开始有点形状了，而你整个星期就只做了五组深蹲，别的什么都没做，如果你能坚持十分钟左右，就会慢慢感受到投入的回报，你会觉得，嗯，这还真有点意思。
Strength goes up, and you start to build a little bit of a butt or something, and that's all you did was five sets of squats all week and nothing else, and you're ten minute if I can and then so you start getting this connection to a return on your investment that you go, I kinda do
就像这样。
like this.
还有另外一点，亚当，你刚才提到了工作的事。
There's also this other point too, Adam, because you brought up the jobs thing.
这其实挺有意思的。
It's really interesting.
你在运动员身上就能看到这种现象。
You see this with athletes.
那些真正热爱自己运动项目的运动员，一路打到职业水平后，往往会渐渐不再享受这项运动了，因为现在它变成了一份工作。
Athletes who love the sport that they play, absolutely genuinely love it, who get to the professional level.
很多人的心理状态会转变，原本的热爱被压力取代，因为这件事不再只是爱好，而是任务。
There's a psychological phenomenon where many of them stop start not loving what they did because now it's almost it's job.
它变成了
It's
一份工作。
a job.
是的。
Yeah.
这是一份工作。
It's a job.
我知道很多人听过这种说法，我觉得这虽然有点简化，但确实有道理：‘我必须锻炼’和‘我能去锻炼’是两回事。
And so I know people have heard this before, and I think this is, again, an oversimplification, but there's truth in it, which is there's a difference between I have to work out and I get to work out.
这其实是一种心态。
And so that's an attitude.
我得去完成这件事。
I have to go do this thing.
如果你一直抱着‘我必须’的心态，觉得是被逼着做，那你和这件事的关系会慢慢走向放弃；但如果你是‘我能去’，那就不一样。
Well, if you keep going at it with that I have to where you feel like you're forced, you're moving towards a relationship where you can eventually quit it versus I get to go do this thing.
我的身体在动。
My body moves.
我有机会去以另一种方式表达自己，就像上班一样。
I get to go and express itself in a different way just like a job.
我得去工作，因为得付账单；但换个角度，我真的能去上班，这感觉完全不同。
Oh, I have to work because I gotta pay these bills versus, man, I get to I get to go to work.
这是完全不同的心态。
It's a different mentality completely.
不过，顺着你刚才说的方向，我们正在讨论的是：这个方法对你的目标有多有效？
But to to point to go kind of the direction you are, here's part of what we're talking about, which is how effective is this method for your goal?
那你怎么判断它是否有效呢？
And now how do you determine effectiveness?
判断的标准是这样的。
Here's the here's the way you determine it.
不是看它多快、多好地帮你达成目标
It's not how great, how fast it gets you to
而是看它能不能让你持续下去。
your goals.
不是那个意思。
It's not that.
关键是你投入了多少时间，又换回了多少成果。
It's how much time do you invest versus how much you get out.
没错。
That's right.
这才是衡量有效性的标准。比如，我完全可以给你一套训练计划，效果很棒，但每周得投入四十个小时。
That's effectiveness because I could give you a workout that gives you great results that requires, you know, forty hours a week of investment.
不管结果有多好，你都不会坚持去做。
And I don't care how great the results are, you're not gonna do it.
你不可能每周都去锻炼四十个小时。
You're not gonna work out forty hours a week.
但如果我能向你展示一种锻炼方式，只需要投入很少的时间，就能获得很好的效果，很多人会非常喜欢这种方式，这也正是他们乐在其中的原因。
But if I could show you a form of exercise where you can invest very little time in comparison to the results that you get, a lot of people this is something that people really like, and this contributes a lot to the fact that they enjoy it.
有一种锻炼方式对很多不同的目标都有效，那就是力量训练。
One form of exercise does this for a lot of different goals, and that's strength training.
力量训练的独特之处在于，它确实能增肌。
What's unique about strength training, yes, it builds muscle.
它能增强力量，但特别的地方在于，你不需要花太多时间就能取得很好的效果。
It builds strength, but it's unique in the sense that you don't need a lot of it to get really good results.
对。
Mhmm.
当你用其他方式锻炼时，通常得投入更多时间才能看到回报。
When you're training with other modalities, you tend to need to invest a lot more time to get something back from it.
比如，我只是想燃烧卡路里或者提升耐力，那就得做大量训练才能有明显进步。
Like, I'm just trying to burn calories or build endurance, I gotta do a lot to really build lots of endurance.
力量训练的话，普通人每周练一天就够了。
Strength training, average person does one day a week of strength training.
你就能看到明显的力量提升。
You're gonna see significant strength gains from
我甚至可以再减少一点。
what I'll back it off even more.
就像我说的，如果一个人只做这一件事，你遇到这样一个人
Like I said, all if all somebody did, if you met somebody
一周一次。
Once a
一周一次。
week.
每周只做五组深蹲，别的什么都不做。
Who once a week did five sets of squats and nothing else.
但他们从不缺席。
But they never missed.
每周都坚持做五组深蹲。
Once a week, they always do five sets of squats.
多年下来，这个人在这个动作上会变得多熟练，掌握标准深蹲带来的好处，力量的增长，对身体、灵活性、精力和新陈代谢的影响有多大。
Over years, how good that person would get at that at that movement and the the benefits that come from knowing how to do a proper good squat and the strength gains over the time and what that would do to your body, to your mobility, to your energy, to your metabolism.
我的意思是，这种投入的回报率高得惊人。
I mean, there's such a huge ROI
就这一点。
on that.
我现在正在训练一个 guy，是我很好的朋友，特别聪明，受过高等教育，在医疗行业工作。
I have a guy that I'm training right now, good friend of mine, very smart guy, highly educated, works in the medical field.
他一直是个骑车的。
He's always been a cyclist.
他一直是个跑步的。
He's always been a runner.
他一直努力保持健康。
He's always tried to stay fit.
后来我开始带他训练。
And I started training him.
我们一开始每周一起锻炼一次。
You know, we started working out once a week together.
我跟他解释运动到底是怎么起作用的，怎么给身体传递信号。
And I'm explaining to him how exercise really works, how it we send this signal.
我们关注的是身体的适应过程。
We're looking for adaptation.
你本来就是急诊科医生。
You're already an ER doc.
你平时压力已经够大了。
You've got lots of stress.
你一半时间睡不好，所以不能给你加太多压力。
Your sleep is crap half the time, so we can't apply too much stress.
我就把这些道理都跟他讲了一遍。
And so I'm telling him all this stuff.
他从逻辑上完全能理解。
Logically, he gets it.
他脑子很灵光。
He's a smart guy.
我表达得也很清楚。
I can communicate it very well.
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对吧？
Right?
所以我已经做这个很久了。
So I've been doing this for a long time.
所以他明白。
So he gets it.
但在训练过程中，你能感觉到他有点犹豫。
But as we're training, you could tell he's like, wait.
也许我该再加大点强度。
Maybe I should go harder.
比如，你确定我不该再加码吗？休息日是不是该多练点？
Like, are you sure I shouldn't go Sal, should I do more on my off days?
我就跟他说，听好了。
And I'm like, listen.
如果你在这儿变得更强了，而你确实变强了，那就说明有效。
If you're getting stronger in here, which you are, it's working.
所以我现在跟他训练已经八周了，他最近来的时候就说，你知道吗？
And so I've been working with this guy now for eight weeks, and he come and he comes in now and he's like, you know what?
我听进去了。
I heard you.
我理智上是相信的，但之前没真正感受到，因为我的亲身经历让我怀疑。
I believed you intellectually, but I didn't feel the belief because I had an experience.
他说，这事儿简直太不可思议了。
He goes, this is the craziest thing.
他说，我以前从没期待过锻炼，
He goes, I look I've never looked forward to working out.
但现在我特别期待，因为练完感觉特别好。
I look forward to it now because I feel good.
不再觉得像被揍了一顿似的。
I don't feel like I got the crap beat out of me.
我确实在变强。
I'm getting stronger.
简直感觉我什么都没做，但身体却在变好。
It almost feels like I'm doing nothing, and my body's responding.
现在觉得轻松，是因为跟以前他训练的方式比起来。
Now it feels like nothing because in comparison to how he used to train himself.
对。
Yep.
以前他总是把自己练到筋疲力尽。
It was like he he would slam himself into the ground.
是的。
Yeah.
现在他训练得科学多了。
Now he's training appropriately.
他投入的精力，回报特别大。
He's getting a huge ROI for the investment that he's putting in.
你猜他的心态现在怎么样了？
And guess what's happening with the his relationship with it?
他特别喜欢。
He loves it.
他说，每周一次的训练——他可是个大忙人——却是他一周中最期待的时刻。
He says that our sessions once a week, and this is a very busy guy, is the highlight of his week.
你觉得这对他的健身态度产生了什么影响？
Tell me what that's doing to his relationship with fitness.
所以在坚持锻炼、选择合适训练方式时，你得想清楚：这个方式对你的目标到底有多有效？
And so a big factor that you need to consider with your consistency, with your workout, picking the right workout is how effective is this for the goal that I'm after?
如果你的目标是减脂、增肌、增强力量、改变体型或提升活动能力，那在所有运动里，力量训练的投入产出比最高。
And if your goal is fat loss or muscle gain or strength or changing how you look or mobility, one form of exercise gives you the most ROI in that strength training.
对大多数人来说，每周练一次或两次就足够了。
And for most people, it looks like once a week or twice a week.
就这么简单。
That's it.
这值得你好好想想。
And that's just something to consider.
是的
Yep.
我希望人们能明白这一点，因为它至关重要。
And I want people to understand that because that plays a big role.
最后，你还得考虑这一点。
And then lastly, you gotta you also gotta consider this.
什么最适合我目前的生活？
What is the most appropriate for me in my life?
对
Mhmm.
必须适合才行。
It's gotta be appropriate Yeah.
适合我的生活。
For me in my life.
也要考虑长期的情况。
Long term too.
不是只考虑这个春天。
Not just, in this Spring.
不是只盯着婚礼前的六个月，或者这个三个月的夏天，或者是当下的这一刻。
Six month window until the wedding or this three month summer or this moment of time.
而是想想，有什么是我能一辈子都坚持做、并且最合适的。
It's what is most appropriate that I could do this forever.
没错。
That's right.
比如，这是我能融入生活的一件事。
Like, this is something I can build into my life.
它会成为我生活的一部分。回到你刚才说的，每周一到两次，是因为这很现实。无论你处于人生的哪个阶段、哪个时期，这都是大多数人能承担的合理承诺，所以建议从这儿开始。
It'll be a part of my life forever back to your point of one to two times a week is because it's realistic that no matter where where what time of your life, you are at or what phase of your life you're in, it that's an appropriate commitment for most people, which is why you wanna start there.
而且，当你真正爱上这件事后，我们还可以逐步增加。
And we can always build up as you fall in love with this.
没错。
That's right.
你跟我说说
And you tell me
没错
That's right.
这是我每周最期待的时刻
This is the highlight of my week.
要做的，就是找回最初的快乐
To work on is the enjoyment back to the beginning.
确实如此，这也是为什么每个人的体验都独一无二，我们不能简单地甩出一套公式就完事。
It's really and that's why it's such an individual experience and something that we can't just be like, oh, here's the formula.
比如直接告诉大众一套最通用的训练方案。
Here's the exact workout that's probably best for the general population.
但这根本不是重点。
It really isn't about that.
关键在于要对自己诚实，做好自我盘点，清楚自己的行为模式，然后认真评估一下：这样做是不是过头了？
It's about really being honest with yourself and having that kind of inventory to where, you know, you understand your own behaviors and you can like really assess like, is this too much?
这事儿我现在就能起身去做，然后慢慢调整自己的心态吗？
Is this something I can just get up and do right now and then just, you know, work on my mentality towards it?
你要明白，这是一段关系，去一趟健身房，或者约一次会，根本建不成一段婚姻。
And understand that this is a relationship and going to the gym once or twice, going on one or two dates is not going to build a marriage.
明白吗？
Okay?
要建立一段健康的婚姻，
It's gonna a healthy marriage.
得花时间。
You it takes time.
没错。
That's right.
你得持续投入去经营。
You have to work on this.
你可能在听这段话，心里想着：我就是不喜欢任何一种方式。
And so you might be listening to this and you might be the person who says like, I don't like any modalities.
我真的很讨厌。
I hate it.
然后你听了这些建议，就去健身房一次，就像我们说的那样。
And then you hear this advice, and then you go to the gym one time, like we say.
我还是讨厌。
Like, I still hate it.
你没事的。
You're okay.
我还是讨厌。
I still hate it.
这就对了。
It's like, cool.
你才去约了一次会。
You went on one date.
你明白我的意思吧？
You know what I'm saying?
慢慢来，先多了解一段时间，别着急，慢慢理清其中的联系，再慢慢改变自己的说法。
Like, court this for a while and take it slow and learn about it and start to connect the dots and then start to change your language.
对。
Mhmm.
随着时间推移，这种转变自然会发生，但别指望一天之内就能从讨厌它变成突然明白它的价值。
And as and then over time, that will that shift will happen to expect that to happen in one day, that all of sudden you go from the person who said, I hate this to, oh, I get it now.
原来我只需要这么做就行了。
Oh, this is all I had to do now.
真喜欢。
Love it.
不是这样的。
It's like, no.
得花时间去培养这种关系。
You gotta it it takes time to build that relationship.
确实需要时间。
It does take time.
再说一遍，我们现在讲的有点笼统。
And again, this is kind of like we're we're we're speaking up here.
对吧？
Right?
我们这是在一千英尺高空上看问题。
We're like a thousand foot view.
从上往下看。
We're looking down.
给出的都是比较泛泛的建议。
We're kinda giving this general advice.
我猜很多人会说：给我点具体的例子吧。
People, I'm sure, like, give me some specifics.
这到底是个什么样子？
What does this look like?
对大多数人来说，这会是什么情形？
What is what would this look like for most people?
那我来大致说说，对大多数人来说会是什么样子。
So I'm gonna give some general kind of what it would look like for most people.
不是每个人，但对大多数人来说，这种情况大概就是这样的。
Not everybody, but for most people, what this would probably look like is this.
这是一种生活方式，你真的喜欢做，而且它能有效达成你想要的目标。
This is what this is what a lifestyle of, yeah, I enjoy doing it, that it's effective for what I'm looking for.
大多数人追求的是整体健康、体能提升和生活质量的改善，而且这种模式要贴合个人的生活实际。
What most people are looking for is overall health and fitness and improvement in quality of life, and that it's appropriate for people and their life.
所以我会说得比较笼统。
So this is I'm gonna speak very generally.
这大概就是它会呈现的样子。
This is probably what it's gonna look like.
每周进行一到两天的力量训练。
One or two days a week of strength training.
明白吗？
K?
全身训练就是大概的样子。
Full body is what it's gonna look like.
每天走大约八千步，每周再做一次别的运动。
You're gonna walk daily to the tune of about 8,000 steps a day, and once a week, you play something.
每周想一想，现在有什么有趣的体力活动可以去做一次？
Once a week, you think to yourself, what's a fun physical thing I can go do once a week right now?
不管做什么都行。
I don't care what it is.
去公园扔飞盘也行。
I don't care if you go to the park and you throw the Frisbee.
和老婆去徒步也行。
I don't care if you go on a hike with your wife.
去湖里游泳也行。
I don't care if you go swim in the lake.
但每周这一次玩乐的时间，我觉得对人特别重要。
But that play part once a week, I think is so important for people.
总的来说，就是这样了。
And that's generally it's gonna look like.
如果每个人都能坚持这么做，年复一年，人人都会身材健美、健康有活力，而且会非常满足。
And if you did that, if everybody listening did that consistently over years and years and years, everybody would look fit and healthy, and they'd be very satisfied Yeah.
对这些成果感到满意。
With the results.
没错。
Yeah.
大多数情况下，几个月内，这个人就会像你朋友那样反馈说：
And what happens most times is within months, that person gives the feedback that your buddy gave back.
完全对。
Totally.
这成了生活中最期待的时刻。
Which is this becomes the highlight.
我现在真的爱上了它。
I now love it.
我现在喜欢上了。
I now like it.
然后你可以慢慢在此基础上逐步推进。
And then you can start to slowly build upon that.
说起来还挺有意思的，因为我们这个播客已经做了很久了。
You know, it's so funny too because, you know, we've done this podcast now for a long time.
我一直以来都在谈健身，但很久没亲自带人训练了。
I've been speaking to fitness forever, but I stopped training people for a long time.
你没意识到，而且我觉得之前有位听众曾经提醒过我，当你不带人训练时，有些东西就会慢慢忘掉。
And what you don't realize, and I think don't remember one of you guys communicated this to me a while ago, is you start to forget certain things because you're not training people.
是的。
Yeah.
我只是在表达这一点。
I'm just, you know, communicating this.
当然。
Sure.
所有这些都慢慢想起来了。
And it's all coming back to me.
当我教朋友训练时，我会特别留意他举的重量，因为我知道接下来会发生什么。
And as I'm training my friend, I'm remembering to really take mental note of the weight that he's lifting because I know what's gonna happen.
我知道接下来会发生什么。
I know what's gonna happen.
我知道，四周后他会来找我，说：我觉得我们练得不够。
I know he's gonna come to me in four weeks and be like, I feel like we're not working.
觉得我们练得不够刻苦。
Feel like we're not working out hard enough.
是的。
Yeah.
结果真就发生了。
And so that actually happened.
他说：觉得我们练得不够刻苦。
He's like, feel like we're not working out hard enough.
我问他：你记得五周前你刚开始做卧推时用的是多重吗？
I'm like, do you know what you started with on bench press, you know, five weeks ago?
然后我给他看当时的重量记录。
And I show him the weight.
我对他说：你看看你现在推的是多重。
I'm like, and look what you're lifting now.
他惊讶地说：这比原来重了四十磅啊。
He's like, that's 40 pounds heavier.
现在感觉轻松多了。
It's easier.
我可是加了四十磅的重量。
I added 40 pounds.
我说：没错，老兄。
I'm like, yeah, dude.
你可是自己加了四十磅的重量
You added 40 pounds of your
看看你手腕这状态，老兄。
best can't wrist, look bro.
背部也进步了。
Back.
我知道。
I know.
这不太惊人了吗？
Isn't that crazy?
对啊。
Yeah.
因为他们根本忘了自己五周前是什么水平。
Because he forget they They forget what it was just like.
你以为他们四周前就遇到瓶颈了？
You think they just hit a wall Four weeks ago.
还在持续进步。
Still progressing.
然后我就等着第二件事发生。
And then I and then I waited for the second thing.
真是服了，这事儿太有规律了。
It's just God, it's so predictable.
我等着第二件事。
I waited for the second thing.
第二件事果然来了。
Second thing just happened.
他跟我说，兄弟，周六咱们见。
He told me he's like, man, you know, Saturday I'll see you.
你得给我来点狠的训练。
I want you to train me really hard.
我说，行啊，哥们。
I'm like, alright, dude.
我可以狠狠练你，但你得先好好休息。
I'm gonna I'll train you hard, but only if you're resting.
你知道吗，我们正在聊这个事。
You know, we're having that conversation.
我就在想，你猜接下来会发生什么？
And I'm like, you know what's gonna happen?
迟早他会进来跟我说，兄弟，有个朋友碰见我，说我看起来像……结果真来了。
At some point, he's gonna come in and he's gonna tell me, dude, a friend ran into me and told me I look like a and sure enough, he comes in.
他跟我说，有个老友好几个月没见我了，突然跑过来。
He's like, dude, my buddy came up to me and hadn't seen him for like a few months.
他问：兄弟，你这段时间在干嘛？
He's like, bro, what have you been doing?
他看我的样子，我就猜他准会说，没错，就是一直在练，兄弟。
He looks like he's like, so I think this is what said, yeah, it's just working bro.
这简直太绝了。
It's so fucking dude.
真的太有意思了。
It's so much fun.
所以你们每周锻炼一次？
So you guys are working out once a week.
就一次。
That's it.
他是也会问你一些饮食方面的问题，还是只问……
He or is he asking you any stuff nutritionally too or is he just
什么都问。
Everything.
因为他属于那种我特别喜欢训练的人，要么是医疗行业的，要么是相关领域的，特别爱问问题，这让我觉得特别带劲。
Because he's a he's a really one of my favorite types of people to train are like people who who are either medical field or in that in that kind of field who like to ask lots of questions because it like gets me
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
关于
Of
当然。
course.
继续。
Going.
所以我们有这些特别
So we have these really
满足了你的求知欲。
Scratching that itch for you.
是的，老兄。
Yeah, dude.
我们经常聊得特别投缘，当然了，他是一名急诊科医生。
We have these really really great converse and of course, he's an ER doc.
所以我经常问他工作上的事，他总会跟我讲一些特别离谱的故事。
So I ask him, you know, about work all the time and he comes tells me the craziest story.
我简直惊呆了。
I'm like, oh my god.
太疯狂了，老兄。
That's crazy, dude.
车子会莫名其妙地出现在各种地方。
Places cars find their way in.
老天，我不知道他们怎么能在一半情况下还保持冷静。
Bro, I don't know how they stay calm during half the stuff.
他跟我说，嗯，我就不细说了，但有人进来时，他得保持镇定，就那样，冷静应对。
He he was telling me, well, I'm not gonna go into details, but people come in just he's and he's gotta be calm like and just Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
确保这个人别死掉。
Make sure this person doesn't die.
我跟他说，老兄。
I'm like, dude.
我以前在急诊室当护士，干了挺久，后来都不敢问她那些故事了，晚上听了会做噩梦。
I did it in an ER nurse for a for a long time and I had to I had to stop asking her stories because it would give me anxiety at night.
我真是想不通，你怎么能从这样的一天或一夜之后回到家，还照样正常生活。
I'm like, I don't know how you come home from a night or a day like that and like They have
他们得把压力释放掉，不然会压在心里。
to offload it so they're not holding onto it.
我知道该怎么处理。
I know how to
经历过那种事的人，我嫂子就是护士，在急诊室工作，不过她是在产科。
go through that Dude, my sister-in-law is a nurse and she works in the ER, but she works in delivery.
对吧？
Right?
她以前给我讲过一个故事。
And she was she I think she told me a story.
他们把婴儿推回去了。
They pushed the baby back.
她说因为婴儿的胎位不对，不得不把婴儿重新推回体内。
She said had to push the baby back inside because the way the baby was coming out.
哦，是啊。
Oh, yeah.
要转回去。
To turn.
天哪，这太吓人了。
I'm like, oh my god.
你想象一下，你是那位妈妈。
Imagine that you're the mom.
对啊。
Yeah.
你拼命用力，感觉孩子就要出来了。
And you're like, you're pushing so hard.
都快出来了，
You're like, it's almost out.
结果还得把孩子推回去。
We gotta push the baby back in.
我们得
We're gonna
再试一次。
try again.
真的假的？
Like, seriously?
我不干了。
I'm done.
有一点点
A little bit
扭转一下。
of a twist.
总之，我有个特别简单的营养小建议分享给大家。
Anyway, I got a nutrition tip for people that's really simple.
快说说看。
Let's hear it.
所以呢，如果你想健康地增肌，有个简单的方法可以多补充蛋白质和一点额外热量。
So, you know, an easy way to add protein and a little extra calories if you wanna do a really clean bulk.
这方法特别容易操作。
This is a super easy way to do it.
我刚才还跟道格聊了，因为我正在吃Paleo Valley的肉条。
And I was just talking with Doug earlier because I was eating the Paleo Valley meat sticks.
对。
Yeah.
每根肉条大概有六克蛋白质，平均七十卡路里。
Each meat stick is about six grams of protein, 70 calories on average.
如果你每天加吃四根，比如在两餐之间，早上吃之前或者跟早餐一起，或者早午餐之间吃，都行。
If you added four sticks a day, so in between meals, you could have it, you know, you know, could have it before breakfast or with breakfast, in between breakfast or lunch.
或者干脆一次性全吃了。
Or at all at once.
之前那招，就是我的做法。
Before That's my move.
一天吃四根，很简单。
If you have four a day, that's easy.
280大卡就带来了24克蛋白质，几乎是纯天然食物了。
24 grams of protein from what's pretty close to whole food at 280 calories right there.
这营养配比不错。
Those are good macros.
这营养配比挺好。
That's good macros.
太棒了，兄弟。
That's really good, dude.
是的。
Yeah.
这是草饲牛肉。
It's grass fed meat.
对。
Yeah.
或者鸡肉、火鸡，你喜欢哪种都行。
Or chicken or turkey, whatever you like.
而且有24克蛋白质，280大卡。
And it's 24 grams of protein, 280 calories.
对吧？
Right?
一天四根。
Four sticks a day.
是的。
Yeah.
特别简单。
Super easy.
而且随身带着很方便。
And they can go anywhere with you.
是的。
Yeah.
那些应该是，我觉得，除了这个之外，Paleo Valley 还有甜甜圈味的。
Those are probably I'd say, between that, I know with Paleo Valley, you also had the the the the donut flavor.
哦，它们是
Oh, they're they're
蛋白质。
The protein.
它们的骨汤。
Their bone broth.
在这两个之间，我觉得就属这两个最棒。
Between those two, I'd say those I are the two, like
我差点忘了这个。
forgot about that.
哦，它们是巧克力味的？
Oh, Oh, they're chocolate?
对，是的。
Oh, yeah.
太好吃了。
Delicious.
天哪。
Oh my god.
对。
Yeah.
他们到底用了什么工程手段啊？
What engineering magic did they do?
我是说，我算是后来才加入的。
I mean, I was I was late to the party.
我记得那时候你一直在夸，说好久没尝过这么好喝的蛋白粉了。
I remember when you when you were you were touting I never tasted a protein it so long.
我是说，我喜欢那款粉的地方在于，我能一次放四勺。
I mean, what I loved about that powder was that you could I can do four scoops of it.
对。
Yeah.
而且它特别好消化
And it just digests
就跟水一样。
It's like water.
太轻松了。
So easy.
我知道。
I know.
我吃乳清蛋白或者任何乳制品都有个上限。
Where I'm I have that upper limit with whey or any dairy product.
我最多能吃三四十克，身体还能扛得住。
Can I can get probably $40 35, 40 grams in and I'm okay?
对。
Mhmm.
一旦超过六十克，我就感觉肠胃里咕噜咕噜的。
I start pushing 60 and above and it's like, oh, I can feel bubbly guts from it.
但在Paleo Valley的骨汤里，我能喝下大量蛋白质，一点事儿都没有。
Where the the Paleo Valley, I can with a bone broth, I can have a ton of protein and be totally fine.
而且喝起来特别顺口。
And it's easy to take down.
亚当，我其实一直想问你，小丑的起源是什么？
You know what I wanna know, Adam, is the origin of clowns.
我之前听人说过。
I heard earlier
我听贾斯汀提到过。
I heard Justin say
贾斯汀好像硬把这话题塞进来似的。
Justin like he's shoehorning
我本来打算下播后再提这事儿的。
Was was about to bring it up off air.
我心想：你这也太离谱了吧？
I'm like, how dare you?
这听起来就像播客里的对话。
That's a podcast conversation.
哥们，我特别想听听这个。
I wanna hear about this, dude.
我平时就爱听些奇奇怪怪的播客。刚才那是播客对话吗？
I listen to weird podcasts on Was that a podcast conversation?
对。
Yeah.
播客里的对话。
Podcast conversation.
咱们猜猜看它的起源是什么？
Can we guess what the origin was?
试着猜猜看？
Can we try to guess?
哦，好的。
Oh, okay.
是的。
Yeah.
就是，全球哪个地方的，还有他们的样子，因为这属于典型形象一类的东西。
Like, what part of the world and then, like, yeah, what they look like because this is like archetype stuff.
对。
Yeah.
哦。
Oh.
我猜这个已经演变了。
Oh, I bet that's evolved.
它完全变了吗？
Has it totally evolved?
我打算来个
I'm gonna have a
我的意思是，这跟马戏团没关系吧？
I mean, it's not it's not it's not circus related?
是的。
Yeah.
所以这就很...
So that's so
我第一反应就是马戏团。
That's the first thing I go to is circus.
我本来以为会变成那样，
I would It turned into that,
但我本来以为，好吧。
but I would I okay.
我猜是，所以...
I'm gonna guess So
之前应该还有别的东西，所以那并不是源头。
even there was something before, so that's not the origin.
我猜是两个猜测。
I'm gonna guess two guess guesses.
可能是从宫廷小丑开始的。
Either it started from court jesters.
哦，达法恩·贝克？
Oh, Daafarn Beck?
国王们必须找人逗他们笑，或者它起源于意大利。
Where where kings had to have someone to make them laugh or it originated in Italy.
我说意大利的原因是，马戏团确实起源于意大利。
And the reason why I say Italy is because the circus originated in Italy.
那哪个历史更悠久呢？
Well, what has a what has a what has an older origin?
马戏团和牛仔竞技，哪个更早？
Circus or rodeo?
马戏团历史更久。
Circus is old.
是的。
Yeah.
牛仔竞技
Rodeo's gotta
肯定也很古老
be old
也是。
too.
它
It's
肯定得
gotta be
老。
old.
对。
Yeah.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我不确定。
I don't know.
因为你有马术表演。
Because you have rodeo.
想想那些更古老的文明。
Think about older cultures.
你有比……更古老的马术表演。
You have you have rodeo older than
比意大利还早？
Older than Italy?
是的。
Yeah.
天哪，老兄。
Woah, bro.
美索不达米亚？
Mesopotamia?
我们在哪儿？巴比伦吗？
We where are we Babylon?
咱们这是要去哪儿啊，兄弟？
Where are we going here, bro?
不是。
No.
是另一个地方。
A different part of
全世界，我想。
the world, I guess.
中国？
China?
更近一些。
Closer.
对。
Yeah.
瞧好了。
There you go.
印度。
India.
印度是小丑的起源地？
India has the origin of clowns?
他们说的就是这个。
This is what this is what they're talking about.
对。
Yeah.
而且那种形象和我们现在看到的马戏团小丑很像。
And it like the depiction of it being similar to what we see now, like in modern circus.
比如红头发，火红色的头发。
It's like having the red hair, the ginger hair
是的。
Yeah.
鼻子，红鼻子。
The nose, the red nose.
真的吗？
Really?
对。
Yeah.
这挺有意思的。
Which is interesting.
希望你能找到类似
Hopefully, you could find like
它的图片。
a picture of it.
马戏团的历史更悠久。
Circus goes longer.
道格，查一下小丑的起源。
Doug, look up origin of clowns.
要长得多。
Significantly longer.
去印度看看。
Go to India.
小丑的起源在意大利。
Origin of clowns, Italy.
好的。
Okay.
行吧。
Alright.
印度。
India.
不好意思。
Sorry.
印度。
India.
印度。
India.
还行吧。
Just Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
我想看看这个
I wanna see what the
我这儿还有一个。
I have another one here.
上面写的是埃及，不过
It says, Egypt, but
哦，天哪。
Oh, wow.
是的。
Yeah.
给你。
There you go.
就连是啊。
Even Yeah.
你靠得更后了。
You're further back.
可能是小丑，就像我们熟悉的那些红鹭一样。
It might be the the clowns as we know with the red herons.
对。
Yeah.
它们和现代故事确实都很漂亮。
They're they're so pretty much with the, yeah, the modern stories.
那它们当时是
So what were they This
这就是我找到的那一个。
is the one I found.
天哪。
Oh my god.
古埃及第五王朝，大约四千四百年前。
Fifth dynasty of ancient Egypt about forty four hundred years ago.
所以那些严肃的官员，他们服务的职责，跟我们说的小丑完全不一样。
So Serious authorities serving the vital that's not the same, like, clown clown.
我是说，我想到的是那种小丑，戴着
Like, I'm thinking of, like, a clown with the
好的。
Okay.
让我查一下印度这边。
Let me get to India here.
红头发。
Ginger hair.
让我看看啊，兄弟。
Let me see here, dude.
这是
This is
他们当时在开玩笑，说这其实是拿红头发来调侃英语。
Cause they were they were joking that, like, it was, like, basically, they're making fun of English because of the red hair
哦，这么说就合理了。
and Oh, that makes sense.
而且他们还用这个来讽刺那种笨拙的误解，所以……
And and, yeah, and, like, using that as sort of like the satirical blundering What's So they
他们在嘲笑那些试图……的人。
were making fun of the the people that were trying to
这是他们的推测。
This is this was their speculation.
我没法核实这些细节，但那确实是一场挺有意思的对话。
I I I can't fact check all that, but it was it was an interesting conversation.
他们主要的工作或者做的事情是什么？
What what was what was the primary job or thing they did?
这种幽默和调侃一直都是这样吗？
Was has it always been like Humor, poke fun.
所以，它是怎么变成这样的呢？我知道道格正在网上查东西，但我很好奇。
So so how did it I know Doug's googling away different stuff here, but I'm curious.
它是怎么
How did
维塔
it Vita
他
he
维塔是个心地善良、常常秃头、饥肠辘辘的婆罗门，一直作为忠诚的朋友和知己。
Vita Wondering Vita Vita good hearted, often bald headed, and hung hungry Brahmin who acted as a loyal friend and confident
是的。
to Yeah.
所以呢
So so
他们利用讽刺和幽默来批评社会，并制约国王的权力。
what they do, use sarcasm and humor to critique society and keep kings in check.
就像宫廷弄臣那样。
So Like a jester.
确实很像弄臣。
So very jester like.
对。
Yeah.
维塔·沙卡。
Vita Shaka.
搜一下维塔·沙卡。
Type in Vita Shaka.
咱们看看他长啥样，道格。
Let's see what he looks like, Doug.
对。
Yeah.
维塔·沙卡。
Vita Shaka.
我们来看看。
Let's
他长什么样。
see what he looks like.
一个能引人发笑的人。
One who provokes laughter.
那还挺好的。
So how okay.
如果真是这样，他们是怎么进入马术表演的？
If that's so how do they make their way into the rodeo?
哦。
Oh.
我不清楚。
I don't know.
那是另一回事了。
That's another game.
这完全是另一码事。
That's a whole another
对啊。
Yeah.
就像就像。
Like like
嗯，确实。
Well Yeah.
那样子看起来，我可不会。
That doesn't look I would
我在想，西班牙那边不是有斗牛士当诱饵吗，会不会就是从那儿演变过来的？
wonder if, you know, in Spain, because they have like the, you know, that whole with the Matador, like, as a distraction.
说不定就是从那个发展出来的。
I wonder if it evolved from from that.
对。
Yeah.
我的意思是，他们是用小丑来分散注意力。
I mean, that's They're using clowns to kind of distract.
你想想，小丑是怎么混进牛仔竞技表演里的？
Look at look at why why why did clowns make their way into to rodeo?
既然它们的设计目的就是这个
Because if that's what they're designed to do
你们知道吗，马戏团里小丑的薪水往往是最高的。
Do you guys know that the clown that a clown is oftentimes the highest paid performer in a circus?
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
确实如此。
They are.
是的。
Yeah.
因为他们
Because they
真的吗？
Really?
没错。
That's right.
他们得负责所有的环节过渡，同时还要把观众的情绪带动起来。
They have to do all the the the transitions and then keep the crowd engaged.
所以他们基本上就像
And so they're basically like the
主持人一样。
host.
他们真是多才多艺。
They're multitalented.
是的。
Yeah.
所以你们知道，杰西卡以前在太阳马戏团演出，我问过她，谁的收入最高？
So my so you guys know Jessica used to travel Cirque du Soleil, and she's like the I I asked her, like, who's the highest paid?
你看一下。
Look at it.
我不禁想，马术表演是不是也差不多？你瞧这情况。
I I wonder if that's similar with the rodeo too because look at it.
上面说他们 supposedly 要负责
It says it's they're they're they're they're supposed to be
用喜剧之类的元素来娱乐观众。
entertaining With comedy and stuff.
啊。
A
稍微大一点。
little bit bigger.
让演出顺利进行。
Moving the show along.
他们得
They get
所以他们得一直保持着娱乐性。
So they constantly have to be entertaining.
所以，对，就是这样。
So so yeah.
因为她告诉我的，我问她，马戏团里谁赚得最多？
Because she told me, because I asked her, who makes the most in the circus?
她说，通常是小丑。
She goes, it's usually the clowns.
对。
Yeah.
我问，为什么？
I said, why?
她说，得会唱歌。
She's like, need to know how to sing.
对。
Mhmm.
他们还得会逗乐。
They need to know how to make humor.
得懂整个演出。
They need to know the whole show.
要是演出出了岔子，他们得马上哄观众开心。
If something goes wrong on the show, they have to entertain the audience.
因为马戏团一直在表演啊。
What because circuses are performing all the time.
没错。
Right.
而且总是
And there's always
哦，是啊。
Oh, yeah.
总会出现点意外。
There's always a mishap.
动物跑出来了，或者
An animal gets out or
有什么东西坏了。
something doesn't work.
她就是这么告诉我的。
That's what she told me.
每场演出都会出点状况。
She was every show, something happens.
对。
Yeah.
你得赶紧用别的东西补上。
And you gotta like replace it with something else.
小丑就是负责填补空档的人。
And the clown is the person that fills in the space.
所以她说，小丑赚的钱最多。
And so she said, they make the most money.
这还挺有意思的。
Interesting.
我完全没想到。
Which I had no idea.
我以为是像……
I thought it was like the
收入最高的小丑是哪些人？
What's what what's the what are the highest paid clowns?
顶尖的马戏学校是哪所？
What's what's top Clown school too.
比如
Like
真的吗？
Is there really?
是的。
Yeah.
小丑的最高薪资是多少？
What's top salary for for a clown?
是巴纳姆与贝利马戏团。
It's Barnum and Bailey.
他们赚得不少吧，兄弟？
What's their balling, bro?
有个
There was
孩子，是我儿子的
a kid that was in my my son's
他是个
He was a
高级州立小丑。
high state clown.
他还上过巴纳姆与贝利的小丑学校。
Who also went to like a Barnum and Bailey school for clowns.
大多数小丑的收入在五万八到八万九千美元之间。
So most of them make between 58 to 89,000.
顶尖的自由职业小丑能赚到十一万四千美元。
Top independent earners make 114.
历史上有一位瑞士表演者，叫格隆克。
In history, Swiss performer, Gronk.
这还挺有意思的。
Oh, isn't that interesting?
格隆克。
Gronk.
他名字是这么来的吗？那他到底赚多少？
Is that who he named after how much do they make?
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