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如果你想锻炼身体、开阔思维，只有一个地方可以去。
If you wanna pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.
Mind Pump。
Mind pump.
Mind Pump。
Mind pump.
主持人：Sal Di Stefano、Adam Schafer 和 Justin Andrews。
With your hosts, Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews.
你刚刚发现了史上排名第一的健康、健身和娱乐播客，下载量已接近五亿次。
You just found the number one health, fitness, and entertainment podcast in the history approaching over half a billion downloads.
这就是 Mind Pump。
This is Mind Pump.
在今天的节目中，我们回答了听众的问题。
In today's episode, we answered listeners' questions.
我们去了 Instagram 上的 Mind Pump 媒体页面。
We went to Instagram, the Mind Pump media page.
我们挑了四个听众提出的问题，然后进行了回答，不过这些内容是在片头之后才放的。
We picked four questions that our listeners posted, We answered them, but this was after the intro.
今天的片头足足有六十分钟长。
Today's intro was sixty minutes long.
在片头部分，我们会聊健身、减脂、增肌，还有时事新闻和家庭生活。
In the intro, we talk about working out and fitness and fat loss and muscle gain, current events, family life.
每次听都特别有意思。
It's always a good time.
本期节目由几位赞助商支持。
This episode is brought to you by a couple sponsors.
第一个是Rho Nutrition。
The first one is Rho Nutrition.
他们采用脂质体技术，让补充剂精准送达需要的地方。
So they use liposomal technology to deliver supplements where they need to go.
今天我们聊了他们的脂质体肌酸。
Today, talked about their liposomal creatine.
肌酸，对你非常好。
So creatine, super good for you.
它对长寿、肌肉和心理健康都很有好处。
It's great for longevity, great for muscle, great for mental well-being.
他们有脂质体肌酸。
They have liposomal creatine.
所以，如果你消化肌酸有困难，试试Rho Nutrition的肌酸。
So for those of you that have issues digesting creatine, try Rho Nutrition's creatine.
访问rhonutrition.com/discount/mindpump。
Go to rhonutrition.com/discount/mindpump.
就是rhonutrition.com/discount/mindpump。
That's rhonutrition.com/discount/mindpump.
使用优惠码mind pump。
Use the code mind pump.
享受8折优惠。
Get 20% off.
本期节目还要感谢Crisp Power高蛋白椒盐卷饼的赞助。
This episode is also brought to you by Crisp Power high protein pretzels.
一袋大约有28克蛋白质，高纤维。
A bag is, like, 28 grams of protein, high fiber.
它们很好吃。
They're delicious.
有纳乔味、火辣味等多种口味。
There's flavors like nacho and flaming and more.
它们味道很好，而且蛋白质含量高。
They taste so good, and they're high in protein.
你可以在享受美味的同时达到蛋白质摄入目标。
You hit your protein targets while enjoying yourself.
去看看吧。
Go check them out.
通过我们的链接可以享受10%的折扣。
Get 10% off through our link.
去 crisppower.com/mindpump 看看。
Go to crisppower.com/mindpump.
使用优惠码 Mind Pump 就能享受那10%的折扣。
Use the code Mind Pump to get that 10% off.
我们还有MAPS训练计划的促销活动。
We also have a promotion going on with MAPS workout programs.
购买我们最受欢迎的10个MAPS计划中的任意一个。
Buy any one of our top 10 most popular MAPS programs.
就能免费获得另一个最受欢迎的10个MAPS计划之一。
Get any other one of the top 10 MAPS programs for free.
现在买一送一正在进行中。
Buy one, get one free happening right now.
去 mapsbogo.com 看看吧。
Go to mapsbogo.com.
好的。
Alright.
很快说一下。
Real quick.
如果你像我们爱你一样爱我们，为什么不去mindpumpstore.com买一件我们的T恤、帽子、杯子或者训练装备来支持我们呢？
If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com?
我现在就说。
I'm talking right now.
先暂停一下。
Hit pause.
去mindpumpstore.com看看吧。
Head on over to mindpumpstore.com.
就这样。
That's it.
享受接下来的节目吧。
Enjoy the rest of the show.
好的。
Alright.
这话可能有点争议，但确实是真的。
This might be controversial, but it's true.
准备好了吗？
You ready?
胖但健康，比瘦但不健康要好。
Being fat and fit is better than being skinny and unfit.
我们要
We're gonna
来看数据。
go through the data.
我们会把它拆解开来。
We're gonna break it down.
我们会向你解释，这其实在客观上更好。
We're gonna explain to you that it's actually objectively better.
贾斯汀一直想告诉我们这个，说了很久了。
Justin's been trying to tell us this for a long time.
胖子。
Fatties.
胖子。
Fatties.
停。
Stop.
所以我觉得在我们开始讨论之前，得先说明一下，让大家清楚。
So I think for before we get into the conversation, we gotta preface this with just some clarity.
好吗？
Okay?
体脂过高。
Being over fat.
就是体脂率超过某个百分比。
So having a a body fat percentage that's over a particular percentage.
你看男性的数据，大概从百分之二十开始就能看到这种情况。
And when you look at the data for men, you start to see this around twenty percent.
对于女性来说，这个数值可能在百分之三十左右，具体因人而异。
For women, you might see this around thirty percent, give or take, depending on the person.
这确实会对健康产生影响。
It does have an effect on your health.
明白吗？
Okay?
所以无论你的体能水平如何，体脂过高超过一定限度，无论如何都会对健康产生负面影响。
So regardless of your fitness level, having excessive body fat beyond a certain point, no matter what, will have a negative effect on your health.
我们并不是说两者是等同的。
So what we're not saying is that it's equal.
所有情况都一样。
Everything's equal.
没关系。
It doesn't matter.
但我们说的是，在这两者之间，仅仅比较这两者。
But what we are saying is between the two Just comparing those two.
如果你超重但身体健壮，在大多数指标上，甚至所有指标上，你都比那些体重过轻且不健康的人表现得好得多。
If you're overweight and fit, you're doing way better in most metrics, if not all metrics, than someone who is underweight and unfit.
我们之所以讨论这个，是因为我们常常追求那种体重过轻但不健康的外表，以为那样会让我们更快乐，但数据显示事实并非如此。
And the reason why we're talking about this is oftentimes we chase the underweight unfit look because we think that's what's gonna make us, happier when in fact the data shows it's not true.
完全不是。
Whatsoever.
嗯，这个范围挺大的，对吧，男性可以一直到20%，女性可以一直到30%。
Well, that's a a large range, right, for for men to be able to go all the way to 20%, women all go all the way to 30%.
这给了你很大的灵活性。
That gives you a lot of flexibility.
所以，是的，就我个人经验来说，我觉得在十几岁中期的时候身体最健康。
And so, yeah, I would I mean, in personal experience, I think I've felt the healthiest in the mid teens.
对。
Yep.
你知道，那时候我的精力最充沛，睡眠最好，整体力量也最强。
You know, where I have the best energy, the best sleep, the best overall strength.
而且，这也是最容易保持平衡生活方式的状态，比如我可以偶尔和妻子在晚餐时喝一杯。
Also, the the most easy to have a balanced lifestyle too as far as I can have the occasional drink with the wife at dinner.
我不需要每样东西都去记录和称重。
I don't have to be tracking and weighing everything.
我觉得这是一个相对容易管理和维持的状态。
It's a, I think, a relatively easy place to kinda manage and stay.
一旦你开始尝试，比如男性，把体脂降到个位数，保持那么瘦就变成了一项工作。
Once you start trying to get yourself into, for a man, single digits, it's, it becomes a job to to stay that lean.
而且我会说，那时候我不是最强壮的。
And then I would argue that I am not the strongest.
我睡眠也不是最好的。
I don't sleep the best.
我也不是最健康的。
I'm not the healthiest.
但那时候唯一对我有利的就是外表，你看起来的样子。
But the only thing working for me at that point is the aesthetic piece, what you look like.
嗯，就连这一点，我们也可以讨论一下。
Well, and even that, we can even debate.
所以，当你查看关于长寿的数据时，好吧，那些寿命指标最差的人群，应该说，是那些非常不健康、非常肥胖和身体虚弱的人。
So when you look at the data on longevity, okay, the category of people the categories, I should say, of people that have the worst longevity metrics, okay, are the very unfit and very obese and the frail.
对。
Mhmm.
事实上，在很多情况下，虚弱是一个更高的风险因素，尤其是随着年龄的增长。
And in fact, frailty is a higher risk factor in many cases, especially as you get older.
所以虚弱被定义为体重不足和无力。
So frailty is defined as like underweight and weak.
对吧？
Right?
没有力量，虚弱。
No strength, weak.
那是一些我们见过的最糟糕的死亡率指标。
That has some of the worst mortality metrics that we see.
所以理解这两者很重要。
And so it's important to understand the two of them.
说到长寿，当你查看数据时，结果相当惊人，因为我查阅了一些研究。
Now with longevity, when you look at the data, it's pretty wild because I pulled up some studies.
我找到了我能找到的关于这个主题的最好的研究。
I pulled up some of the best studies I could find around this.
他们发现的是这样的。
And here's what they find.
不健康的人，无论属于哪个BMI类别，全因死亡风险大约高出两到三倍。
Being unfit people in every b m a BMI category had roughly two to three times higher risk of all cause mortality.
所以无论在哪里，不健康都会显著增加你的全因死亡风险。
So being unfit anywhere increases your risk of all cause mortality pretty significantly.
健康但超重或肥胖的人，其风险与不健康但体重正常的人相似，或者在很多情况下，根据荟萃分析，甚至更低。
Fit overweight obese individuals have risks similar to or in many cases, this is a meta analysis, better than unfit normal weight individuals.
所以，如果你是一个体脂率在15%左右、身材不错、不超重，但只是正常上班的人。
So if you're a guy and you're walking around 15% body fat, so decent leanness, You're not overweight, but, you know, you just go to work.
你只是上班，回家。
You just go to work, come home.
你并没有在锻炼。
You're not, like, working out.
你身体并不健康。
You're not fit.
一个比你重50磅的人。
A guy who's 50 pounds heavier.
对吧？
Okay?
所以多出50磅的体脂，这可不是小数目。
So 50 additional pounds of body fat, k, which is a significant amount.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但那个人如果也健康、强壮，并且有一定的心肺功能，他的长寿指标和你差不多，甚至更好。
But who's also fit, strong, and has some cardiovascular fitness, has similar or better longevity metrics than you do.
对吧？
K?
所以这就说明了保持健康对长寿有多重要。
So that just goes to show how far being fit goes for people when it comes to longevity.
磅？
Pounds?
是的。
Yeah.
这就像我们说的力量举运动员那种类型吗？
Is this like our Powerlifter kind of archetype?
我不会用那个作为例子，因为
I wouldn't use that as an example because
那还是太极端了。
Still extreme.
对，是的。
It yes.
对，对。
We're we're Right.
我们说的是竞技运动员，现在我们在牺牲……
We talk about, like, competitive athletes, we're now sacrificing
嗯，我是说，也许周末战士更合适。
Well, I mean, maybe a weekend warrior.
是的。
Yes.
所以数据是……
So what the data is That's
也许说某人是竞争者更好。
probably a better way to say Somebody who is like Competitor.
我很高兴
I'm glad
你这么说
you said
对。
that.
有点像举重运动员那种。
Kind of like heavy lifter.
你这么说我很高兴，因为数据里没有显示或使用的，是精英表现。
I'm glad you said that because in the data, what they're not what they're not showing or what they're not using is elite performance.
没错。
Right.
所以我说健康，不是指我参加铁人三项，或者我是健身房最强的那种。
So when I say fit, I'm not talking about like I do triathlons or like I'm like the strongest guy in my gym type of deal.
你举重，而且
You lift and
对。
yeah.
你很活跃。
You're active.
你很活跃。
You're active.
坚持锻炼。
Work out consistently.
相比之下，你算是相当健康了。
You're you've decently fit in comparison.
你说50，我想回到你说的那个50。
You're you're 50 I wanna go back to the 50 you said.
那是相对于你说的15%而言的。
That's relative to what you say you use a 15%.
我在想象我的一个朋友，他体重可能大约170到180磅，体脂率大概在15%到18%之间，而且他不锻炼。
I'm I'm I'm picturing my buddy who weighs probably about a hundred and seventy pounds to a hundred and eighty pounds and and probably manages himself between 15 to 18% body fat and doesn't work out.
对。
Yeah.
所以他只是吃得不太好。
So he just he doesn't really eat good.
他做的是体力活，需要经常动。
He he moves he has a physical job that he does.
他活动量大，而且显然不会暴饮暴食。
He moves a lot and, you know, doesn't obviously, doesn't crazy overeat.
所以他的生活方式还算活跃，但并没有进行力量训练。
So he's got a somewhat active lifestyle, but doesn't doesn't exercise as a strength train.
对。
Yeah.
以他的体型，大概170磅左右。
His at his body size, one seventy ish.
嗯。
Mhmm.
再重50磅。
50 more pounds.
所以这不是完美的比较，因为如果你的身体确实锻炼了，嗯。
So it's not a perfect comparison because if someone if your body did work out and exercise Yeah.
他的大脑里也会有更多的肌肉。
He'd also have more muscle on his brain.
当然。
For sure.
对。
Yeah.
肌肉在很大程度上确实是决定因素。
The muscle really is the determining factor here for the most part.
力量。
Strength.
对。
Yeah.
嗯，是体能。
Well, it's fitness.
所以我很高兴你这么说，贾斯汀。
So I'm glad you said that, Justin.
好吧，我想就是这样了。
Well, I guess that's it.
所以我想这就是我想要的。
So I guess that's what I'm trying to get with this.
我在努力，我在努力。
I'm trying I'm trying
对，我给出一个数字。是的。
to I'm giving a number Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
只是为了大致描述一下情况。
Just to kind of paint a picture.
对。
Yeah.
但数据显示的是肥胖。
But what the data shows is obese.
好的。
Okay.
所以有超重和肥胖。
So there's overweight and obese.
然后还有极度肥胖。
And then there's extreme obesity.
我们还没到那一步。
So we're not there yet.
但是超重或肥胖，对。
But overweight slash obese Yeah.
健康比正常体重更好或一样好，当然。
Fit is better is the same or better than normal weight Sure.
的人。
Person.
所以
So
你身上有很多
you're carrying a lot of
体脂，但你也还有不少
body fat, but you're still also carrying a decent amount
肌肉。
of muscle.
这意味着，而且
Which which means And
你很健康。
you're fit.
也就是说
Which means
他得达到那个程度，那么，男性的肥胖标准是多少？
he would have to be at so, okay, the obese meter tips at what for men?
25？
25?
对。
Yeah.
他们不看体脂率。
They don't go by body fat percentage.
他们看的是BMI。
They go by BMI.
但假设他现在的体脂率是24，或者25吧。
But let's just say he's at, like let's say he's at twenty four let's say he's at twenty five.
假设他现在是15。
So let's say he's fifteen now.
你涨到了25%的体脂。
You went up to 25% body fat.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
所以你加了10
So you put 10
但他现在很爱运动。
But he's athletic now.
现在
Now
他在跑步，在动。
he's running, moving.
所以，50磅的话，他大概能长20磅肌肉，30磅脂肪。
So so 50 pounds, he probably puts on 20 muscle, 30 fat.
也许吧。
Maybe.
也许吧。
Maybe.
所以就拿
So just take
我不知道那会让他的体脂率变成多少。
I don't know what body fat percentage that would put him at.
对。
Yeah.
但是
But
假设他体重增加了50磅
let's just say he's 50 pounds heavier on the scale
对。
Yeah.
而他的体脂率升到了25%。
And his body fat percentage went up to 25%.
是的。
Yeah.
但现在他能动了。
But now he can move.
他能跑。
He he can run.
他能举重。
He can lift.
对。
Yeah.
他现在和以前一样好，或者很多数据显示他比以前更好。
He's he's as good or a lot of the data shows better than he is now.
对。
Yeah.
而且我要说，实际上他在其他方面更出色。
And I'm gonna argue In real he's better in other categories.
对。
Yeah.
不仅仅是肺部损伤。
Not just lung damage.
我觉得这里面最重要的指标，或者说最能改变局面的，就是瘦体重，以及它在代谢方面对你的影响。
Number one indicator there or the numb the one the the biggest needle mover there, I would think, is is the lean tissue and what it does for you metabolically.
完全同意。
A 100%.
从胰岛素敏感性，到储存方面。
From insulin sensitivity, from storage
哦，可以深入讲讲。
Oh, can get into it.
就是说，回顾这么多年举铁的经历，我觉得最好的收获之一就是现在我的代谢灵活性。
Like that is I mean, one of the best parts of all the years of lifting when I look back now is the metabolic flexibility that I have today.
就是能稍微吃出格一点的能力。
The ability to be able to eat out of bounds a little bit.
真的，比如我上周就不得不这样。
Literally, so I can have I just had to do this last week.
上周我热量摄入很低。
So last week I I was pretty low calorie.
我能看出自己有多疲惫。
I could see how depleted I was.
体重秤上掉了差不多六七磅。
I was dropped like six, seven pounds on the scale.
还有，我老婆总说，你看起来好瘦。
Also, the the wife always comments, you're looking skinny.
我就说，别紧张。
I don't I'm like, relax.
我现在只是有点虚脱。
I'm just depleted right now.
她这么跟你说啊。
Like She says that to you.
别担心。
Don't worry.
我吃个三明治，你就能看到变化了。
I'll eat a sandwich and you'll see a difference.
我老婆从来不会说
My wife would never say
哦，好吧。
Oh, okay.
她知道你的痛点在哪里。
She knows whether it'll She be knows your button.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
她知道。
She knows.
她知道。
She knows.
所以她知道我已经克服了那个问题，所以没关系。
So she she knows I've worked through that, so it's okay.
对吧？
Right?
所以现在我总是说，亲爱的，我不是。
So now I always I said, honey, I'm not.
我说我瘦了几磅，但主要是水分和糖原。
I said the I'm I'm down a few pounds, but it's mostly water glycogen.
现在你们俩在一起的时候，你都穿着衬衫吗？
Now you're leaving your shirt on when you guys get into it?
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
他说，
Said,
我们需要那个便便的东西。
we need the poo thing.
穿两件衬衫。
Double shirt.
你知道，
You know,
我就是这么做的。
that's how I do that.
把灯关掉。
Turn the lights off.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
但我的意思是，所以然后我们去了，你知道，我们上周末有个车展活动。
But I mean, so then we go we had the, you know, we had the the car event this last weekend.
所以我们当时在酒店，是的。
So we we were at hotels Yeah.
出去吃饭，喝了点酒，还做了些事情。
Eating out, had drinks, did a thing.
而且我还跟你说了我们订了那个电影的东西，哦，对。
And I even had I told you we ordered that that movie thing, the Oh, yeah.
对。
Yeah.
无所谓。
Whatever.
所以我吃了甜点。
So I had desserts.
我好久没这么做了。
I hadn't done that in a while.
而且，我是说，一切都圆满了。
And just, I mean, everything filled out.
而且她
And she's
那不是体脂。
It was not body fat.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
不是体脂。
It's not body fat.
尼古丁。
Nicogen.
我什么都没做，对。
I didn't do any yeah.
我什么都没做。
I didn't do anything.
第二天她就说，
The next day she's like,
天哪。
oh my god.
你看起来，哦，你看起来太棒了。
You look oh, you look amazing.
然后她
And she'd
我，我就说，是啊。
me I'm like, yeah.
其实我刚吃了很多卡路里，对。
Well, I just ate a bunch of calories Yeah.
把那些肌肉都填满了。
And filled out all those muscle abilities.
而你四天前看到的或评论的，是我长时间保持低卡路里、把能量都耗尽之后的样子。
And what you were looking at or commenting on four days before is what it looks like when I stay low calorie for a while and deplete everything.
这真的很神奇，我之所以提这个，是因为如果我没有那些肌肉块，没有那些肌肉，没有锻炼它。
It's just wild that and why I'm bringing this up is because if I didn't have those muscle bellies, didn't have that muscle, worked it.
那天吃多了，多余的热量就会溢出，转化成脂肪存起来。
All that extra eating on a day like that goes overspills and goes into storing body fat.
而那个长了20磅肌肉的人，现在体内有了巨大的储存空间，没长这20磅肌肉的人可没有这种条件。
Where the person who's put on 20 pounds of muscle now have these giant, like, vessels of storage that the person without those 20 pounds doesn't have.
说清楚一点，你再仔细看看
And to be clear, when you look again
我可没把问题简单化。
I don't oversimplifying No.
你确实是这样。
You are.
但努力让它……
But trying to make it
但你描绘的画面非常清晰。
But you painted a very clear picture.
而且，再说一遍，为了说清楚，当你看数据的时候，我们看起来还不错。
And and, again, to be clear, when you look at the data, we're look okay.
瘦体重非常重要。
Lean body mass is very important.
但更重要的是健康的瘦体重。
But what's more important is fit lean body mass.
对吧？
Okay?
因为当你看到关于死亡风险或长寿的研究时，他们测试的是输出。
Because when you look at the the the studies on, like, mortality risk or longevity, what they're testing is the output.
也就是力量或最大摄氧量。
It's strength or it's v o two.
对。
Mhmm.
他们不是看你身上有多少肌肉。
They're not looking at you have this much muscle on your body.
虽然拥有更多肌肉通常，大多数时候，意味着更好的体能、力量和活动能力。
Now having more muscle oftentimes, most of the time, translates to better fitness, better strength, better mobility.
但它必须是活跃的。
But it has to be active.
但必须得是健康的，对。
But it it's gotta be fit Yeah.
就是这样。
Is what it is.
因为可能有人天生肌肉多，但身体状态不好，对。
Because you could have somebody with with just genetically more muscle, but out of shape Yeah.
完全不健康，他们就不会像那些肌肉少但肌肉健康的人那样获得保护性益处。
Totally unfit, and they're not gonna get the protective benefits as somebody who has less muscle, let's say, but it's fit muscle.
对。
Yeah.
是活跃的肌肉。
It's active muscle.
这是最大的区别。
That's the big that's the big difference.
对。
Right.
没错。
Right.
因为还有另一层意思，就是我这一整周都在实际使用这些肌肉，这样消耗的热量也更多。
Because you're because there's another layer to what I'd said too where I'm actually going and putting that muscle to work all week, which also is expending a lot more.
说得对。
That's right.
然后你锻炼，做所有
And you work out and do all
这些运动。
this stuff.
对。
Yeah.
所以就像是有这些更大的储能容器，而且它们也是活跃的储能容器，需要更多的能量，因为你要让它们动起来发挥作用。
So it's like there's yeah, these these these larger storage vessels that are also active storage vessels that need even more energy because you're gonna go put them to work.
所以这就像是双赢。
So it's like this it's a double win.
完全正确。
100%.
这也是为什么我们经常跟来电者，尤其是那些想瘦下来或减脂的女性来电者说，要朝着你理想的身材去塑造，而不是试图通过削减来达到那个身材。
This is also why too you hear us communicate this, especially with so many callers, our our female callers that wanna lean out or lose body fat, is to build into the body you want versus trying to cut into the body you want.
生活质量会好得多，因为你知道，试图保持体重不足而且不健康，我们干脆称之为虚弱。
You're far better off quality of life is better because, you're, you know, trying to maintain being underweight and also being unfit, we'll just call it frailty.
对。
Yep.
那可不是什么好的生活质量。
That's not a very good quality of life.
首先，很多时候，除非你患有某种疾病或饮食失调，那是另一回事。
First of all, you're first off, oftentimes, unless you have disease some kind of disease or eating disorder, which is a whole separate category.
但在很多情况下，我们可以说可能有点接近这个，但有很多人只是单纯地节食。
But in a lot of this, we could say maybe tips into this, but there's a lot of people who simply restrict.
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他们可能没有被临床诊断为饮食失调，但他们一直害怕体重增加。
Now they they might not be clinically diagnosed as having an eating disorder, but they're they're they're consistently afraid of gaining weight.
所以他们只是限制自己。
So they just kind of restrict themselves.
他们不太锻炼。
They don't really work out much.
他们喜欢自己所谓的“瘦”，但他们很虚弱。
They like the fact that they're quote unquote skinny, but they're frail.
他们的生活质量比同样体重但多10%体脂、同时健身锻炼的自己要差得多。
Their quality of life is way worse than the same version of them who, let's say, has 10% more body fat but is also working out fit.
那会带来很多其他好处，比如精力等等。
That brings tons of other things like energy and all that stuff.
而且还有灵活性，比如我不那么害怕了。
But also the flexibility of like, I'm not so afraid.
你变得脆弱得多。
You're so much more vulnerable.
没错。
That's right.
我的意思是，甚至对任何病毒之类的，你知道，它肯定会影响到你的骨骼，达到那种程度，以至于其他组织也会受到影响，因为你没有表现出那种抵抗外力的能力。
I mean, even to like any kind of like virus or, you know, obviously, it's gonna affect your bones to that level where, you know, other tissue gets affected because you're not expressing, you know, that resistance against force.
所以，是的，你让自己容易受到各种潜在伤害和疾病的侵袭。
And so, yeah, you're you're kinda leaving yourself susceptible for all kinds of, you know, potential injuries and sickness.
最糟糕的人群，也就是手术或慢性病并发症风险最高的人，就是那些身体虚弱的人。
The worst category of people, as defined by people who have the highest risk of complications from surgery or chronic illness, are people who are frail.
对。
Yep.
那是最糟糕的。
It's the worst.
是的。
Yeah.
你要去做手术，但身体却很虚弱。
You're going in to get surgery and you're frail.
哎呀。
Uh-oh.
或者你得了场大病，身体本来就虚弱。
Or you get a major you get a big illness and you're already frail.
恢复起来简直像噩梦一样。
Recovering is is a nightmare.
这可不是什么好事。
It's not good.
咱们再看看。
And let's also look.
再说一遍，这些只是数据而已，各位。
Let's again, this is just just numbers, you guys.
如果你看看那些患有糖尿病、心脏病或癌症的人中，体重正常或偏瘦的比例。
If you look at the the the percentage of people who get diabetes or heart disease or cancer who are normal weight or underweight.
明白吗？
Okay?
因为我们知道，超重本身就是一个独立的风险因素。
Because we know that being over fat independent of anything else.
如果你身体健康，那确实对这方面有很大帮助。
Now if you're fit, it really does a lot for this.
但某种程度上，超重是糖尿病、心脏病和癌症的风险因素。
But just to a certain extent, being over fat is a risk factor risk factor for diabetes, heart disease, and cancer.
这一点我们很清楚。
We know this.
然而，有相当一部分人，虽然不是大多数，但数量可观，在美国有数千万人，他们体重正常或偏瘦，却仍然患上心脏病、癌症和糖尿病。
And yet there is a significant percentage, not a majority, but it's a significant percentage to the tune of tens of millions of people in America who are this who are normal weight or underweight who still get heart disease, cancer, and diabetes.
而且他们都不健康。
And they're all unfit.
对。
Yeah.
全都是。
All of them.
你知道吗，你一直在说“虚弱”。
You know, you you keep saying, frailty.
对吧？
Right?
我觉得大多数人一听到这个词，马上就会想到老年人。
And I think most people's minds automatically go to, like, the old.
对。
Yeah.
老年人，而且我们有很多虚弱但不算老的人。
Old and We got a lot of frail, not old people.
那你们还记得第一次遇到这种情况是什么时候吗？
Well, do you so do you remember do guys remember the first time you experienced this?
我当时大概22岁。
I was only I was like, I wanna say I was like 22.
那时候我刚当私人教练两年。
So I'm only like two years into being a personal trainer.
然后我遇到了一个，我想她是不是啦啦队员？
And I got this I think she was a was she a cheerleader?
她是个啦啦队员或者模特。
She was a cheerleader or a model.
真的很漂亮。
Real pretty.
真的很漂亮，很瘦。
Real pretty thin.
一个很瘦很漂亮的女孩。
Real thin pretty girl.
我在给她测身体，肖恩，她雇我当教练。
And I'm taking her body Sean, she's hired me for training.
我在给她测体脂率。
And I'm taking her body fat percentage.
我以为我搞错了，因为她的体脂率太高了。
And I thought I was doing something wrong because of how high her body fat percentage was.
对。
Yeah.
因为她看起来很瘦。
Because she looked very skinny.
对吧？
Right?
然而我却
And yet I
没有肌肉。
kept No muscle.
我没有肌肉。
I get no muscle.
我一遍又一遍地测，你知道，尽量保持冷静，好像我知道自己在做什么。
And I kept I kept doing it over and over, like, you know, trying to keep cool like I knew what I was doing.
我心里想，这不对，这说不通啊。
I'm going like, this isn't look this isn't adding up.
那是我第一次从那个方向体验到那种情况。
First time I'd ever experienced that from that direction.
我也经历过相反的情况，就是有人肌肉特别发达，我以为他们也会更强壮。
I experienced the other direction too where somebody was like super ripped, and I thought they're gonna be bigger too.
所以，我记得那两个极端的例子，都是关于那样的人。
So it's been I remember both those big extreme examples of someone like that.
我还记得我问过她的饮食，她吃的是像芹菜那样的东西。
And and I remember asking her about her diet, and she ate like celery.
对。
Yeah.
为了保持体重。
Like to keep her weight.
是的。
Yeah.
她一直吃得很少。
She underate all forever.
是的。
Yeah.
就是为了把体重控制得那么低。
To just to keep her her weight down like that.
她雇我是为了帮她增肌之类的，但我简直不敢相信，一个那么瘦的人体脂率居然那么高。
She was hiring me to help her build some muscle and stuff, but I couldn't believe how high of a body fat percentage somebody so skinny could be.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这让我非常震惊。
And it and it it blew my mind.
那是我第一次有这样的经历。
That was the first time experience.
我当时才22岁。
I was like 22.
我显然也经历过这种情况。
I've obviously experienced it.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
我们有
We have
其他时候
Other other times
我有很多客户。
I've had many clients.
而且我
And I
所以这个故事我很久以前就讲过了。
had so I've told this story a long time ago.
我相信你们还记得。
I'm sure you guys remember this.
但我曾经训练过一位49人队球员的妻子。
But I got to train one of the 49ers' wives.
对，是的。
Oh, yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
他是个萨摩亚人。
And he a Samoan guy.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
他娶了一位萨摩亚妻子。
And he has Samoan wife.
那是我第一次这么觉得，就像我们可能都有过的经历，我真的很擅长看人一眼就能猜出他们的体重，误差大概在五到十磅之内。
It was the first time ever I was so like, I've gotten as we all probably have, really good at looking at someone and being able to put the scale within probably five or 10 pounds.
这是教练的技能。
It's a trainer's skill.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
而且我会轻松搞定那些马戏团。
And I would crush those circus.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我在这方面特别擅长。
I'm so good at that.
我特别擅长这个，而且我已经练得非常精准了。
I'm so good at And I've gotten really, really dialed in.
而且我也很聪明，知道如果我把我的女性客户放上去的话。
And I'm also smart enough to know if I get one of my female clients on there.
如果我猜的话，我会猜得更准一些。
I if I'm I'm guessing Better
不要猜过头。
not overshoot.
我会猜低一点。
I'm gonna undershoot.
对。
Yeah.
我会稍微猜低一点，这样就不会被打脸。
I'm gonna undershoot a little bit so I don't get hit.
你知道
You know
我在说什么吗？
what I'm saying?
所以
So
别忘了这个女孩上来的时候。
never forget this girl gets on here.
对吧？
Right?
她是个萨摩亚姑娘。
She's a Samoan chick.
我能看出她挺壮的，你懂吧？
And I could tell she's, you know, she's pretty thick, you know?
我心里想，她大概有一百七十磅左右，但我会从一百五十五、一百六十开始。
And I'm like, you know, in my head I'm going, she's probably one hundred seventy or so, but I'm gonna start at like one hundred fifty five, one hundred sixty.
你知道
You know
我说什么来着？
what saying?
所以我就把它放上去了，没动。
So I I put it in the things, not moving.
我就说，再往上加五磅。
I'm like, slide it over five more.
再往上加一点。
Slide it over some more.
她有两百零一磅。
She's two hundred and one pounds.
对吧？
K?
但她的体脂率低得惊人。
But her body fat percentage is crazy lean.
她的体脂率在运动员里都算低的。
She's in she's in, like, the lower, like, athletic percentile.
当她掀起衣服给我看时，你以为是腹肌。
And when she lift her shirt up for me, you're thinking abs.
对。
Yeah.
但其实是结实得像砖墙一样，兄弟。
But just a brick house, dude.
看到那样子真是让人惊讶。
And, like, so wild to see that.
但这正好说明不同的体型和不同的体重水平——比如这个女孩两百磅，但超级精瘦，但就是
But just shows you how different body types and and different levels of weight, like, weight does so this girl's two hundred pounds, but super lean, but just
对。
Yeah.
全是肌肉。
All muscle.
不过还有一点，就是我们有多少次接到听众来电？
Well, there's also this piece too, which is and how many times do we have callers?
我举个例子来说明一下。
I'll just illustrate this.
有多少次来电者让我们告诉他们先增加卡路里摄入？首先，这种情况很常见。
How many times do we have callers where we tell them to increase their cal first off, it's often.
我们确实会遇到一些自我选择偏差，就是那些倾向于节食的人。
We get a little bit of a self selection bias of people that tend to restrict.
对吧？
Right?
因为他们是健身爱好者。
Because they're fitness enthusiasts.
他们听这个节目。
They listen to the show.
他们打电话来寻求帮助。
They call them for help.
我们通常只是让他们增加卡路里摄入。
All we do is have them oftentimes bump their calories.
然后他们回来。
And they come back.
他们会怎么说呢？
And what do they say?
我精力充沛多了。
I've got way more energy.
这真是脱胎换骨。
It's transformative.
我感觉完全不一样了。
I feel so different.
是的。
Yeah.
各位，卡路里就是能量。
Calories, ladies and gentlemen, is energy.
对。
Yeah.
如果你摄入不足，只够维持生存，因为你一直在限制自己，你就没有多余的精力来给你自信，对。
If you're not taking in enough if you're taking in just enough to survive because you're constantly restricting yourself, you don't have extra energy to give you confidence Yeah.
或者创造力，去建设。
Or creativity To build.
或者性欲，或者做其他任何事情的精力。
Or libido or energy to do anything else.
你会经常感觉糟糕，经常疲惫，可能还经常抑郁或焦虑，而这可能只是因为你没有摄入足够的营养。
You feel crappy a lot and tired a lot and maybe depressed or anxious a lot, and it might just be you're not taking in enough nutrients.
对。
Yeah.
而且我们之前有个来电者。
And you we just had a caller earlier.
一个男的
A guy
平台期最大的原因之一。
One of the biggest reasons for plateaus.
确实如此。
It is.
我们刚有位观众，我们把他的热量增加了一千卡，然后他又回来了。
And we had a guy just on who we bumped his calories a thousand, and he comes back on.
他说，天哪。
He's like, oh my god.
我精力充沛多了。
I'm way more energy.
体重一点都没增加。
Didn't gain it didn't gain a pound on the scale.
体重一点都没增加。
Didn't gain a pound on the scale.
那运动听起来怎么样？
What did that exercise sound?
连续六十天每天增加一千卡路里。
Sixty days of a thousand calorie increase.
没错。
That's right.
如果你摄入的热量不够，光是应付日常生活就已经很累了，更别提还要加上运动。
And if you're not taking in enough calories and you're tired just doing your regular day, God forbid you add exercise on top of that.
对。
Right.
这样一来，运动的好处你一点也得不到。
And now you don't get any the benefits of exercise.
你根本没有给自己补充能量。
You're not fueling yourself.
而运动是我们所知最有效的抗抑郁方式。
And exercise is the most powerful antidepressant that we know of.
所以，即使体重偏重，只要保持健康，你会更有精力，心态更好，情绪也更积极。
So being fat and fit gives you more energy and a better outlook and a better attitude and a better mood.
而且你
And you're
不会抵消
not gonna veto.
如果不给身体补充能量，锻炼的好处就体现不出来。
The benefits of the exercise if you're not feeding it.
完全正确。
100%.
你是在给
You're giving
它提供恢复所需的营养。
it the nutrients to recover.
完全正确。
100%.
对。
Yeah.
这有点徒劳无功。
It's it's kind of futile.
你也会少些疼痛。
You also have less pain.
对。
Yeah.
身体虚弱会让你更疼，就这么简单。
Being frail will make you hurt more, period.
没得商量。
End of story.
受伤的风险会急剧上升。
Risk of injury goes through the roof.
你的中枢神经系统因为虚弱导致的不稳定，一直在试图保护你的关节，因为你没有给自己足够的营养。
Your CNS is constantly trying to protect your joints because of the instability caused by your frailty because you're not feeding yourself enough.
所以你的动作方式不是最优的，然后你还奇怪为什么你会反复受伤、扭伤或者疼痛。
And so you're moving in ways that aren't optimal, and you wonder why these you get repeated injuries or tweaks or pain.
当然，通过适当的训练，保持健康和强壮意味着你的疼痛会少得多。
Being fit and strong, of course, with the proper training, means you have way less pain.
但是那种外表是一种非常强大的力量
But that look is so such a powerful force
对人们来说。
for people.
贾斯汀，很高兴你提到这一点，因为我查了数据。
I'm glad you brought that up, Justin, because I looked up the data.
当把其他因素分开来看，外表好看实际上对幸福感的贡献有多大？
How much does looking beautiful actually contribute to happiness when you separate it from other factors.
对吧？
Right?
因为他们可能会说，长得好看会让你更容易吸引到想和你约会的人，所以有关系方面的价值。
Because they could say looking beautiful makes it more likely that you'll attract somebody who'll wanna date you, so there's relationship value.
还有，你知道，当你把所有这些都分开来看，仅仅是看起来更好看与看起来不那么好看相比，我本来要争论这一点，但我们就说这是客观事实吧。
There's you know, when you separate all that out, just looking better versus looking not as good, which will which I'm gonna argue anyway, but let's just say this objectively true.
我们会澄清这一点。
We'll dispel that.
实际上，它对幸福感的贡献很低。
It's actually a low contributor to happiness.
换句话说，它几乎不会改变那个数字。
In other words, it barely budges the number.
所以，如果你是个六分，你花所有时间和精力提升到九分，是的。
So if you're a six and you spend all your time and energy to get up to a nine Yeah.
你可能会提升一点点。
You're gonna go up maybe a little bit.
但是，把其他因素分离出来，这样公平吗？
Is it fair though to tease those other things out?
公平。
It is.
为什么？
Why?
这完全合理。
It is totally fair.
为什么合理？
Why is that fair?
因为如果你能指出——让我这么说吧——我们接下来要谈到的那些好处，有多少是源于你对自己的看法，又有多少是别人对你的真实看法？
Because If you can you point let me let me put it as how much of that, which we're gonna get to, is a result of how you view yourself versus how other people actually view you?
换句话说，你的自信、你走出去与人交谈、你的精力、你因为更强壮而感觉更好，以及你在饮食上更灵活，这些因素。
In other words, is your confidence and you going out and you talking with people and your energy and the fact that you feel better because you're stronger and the fact that you have more flexibility with your diet.
你和别人出去，进行社交。
You're going out with people and you're socializing.
这些在你有朋友这件事上起了多大作用？
How much of that plays a role in you having friends
关键愿景和人。
The key vision and people.
投射出的自信。
Projected confidence.
百分之百。
100%.
我觉得这个说法有道理。
I mean, that's a fair argument.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
不过我觉得很难区分清楚，因为如果有人从六分提升到九分，而且我再次跟你唱反调，因为有人确实做到了。
It's a fair it's hard to tease that out though in my opinion just because you gotta if somebody and again, playing to dish devil's advocate with you because you got somebody who improves their self from a six to a nine.
我们知道这对销售有什么影响。
We know what it does in sales.
我们知道这对吸引伴侣有什么作用。
We know what it does for attracting a mate.
所有这些其他方面，也会让你更快乐。
All those other things, which then also make you could make you happier too.
所以很难完全分开来看，就像——
So it's hard to just completely so it's like Let
让我插一句——
me throw a
在理想世界里，嗯，你知道，作为父亲，我觉得我能给儿子最重要的东西就是自信。
wrench In a perfect world, k, and, you know, and I think about this as a father, the number one thing that I could give my son is confidence.
我想给他自信，让他不在乎别人怎么想。
Like, I wanna give him self confidence, forget what everybody else thinks.
就是，做自己，对自己有信心。
Like, be be confident in who you are.
然后有了这个，其他事情都会跟着好起来。
And and then that having that trickles all the other things.
对吧？
Right?
所以我知道自信的价值，但要说把一个人从六分提升到九分，然后看这对他们和朋友、异性等关系的影响，这很难分开来看。
You so I know the value of that, but to just take away to to to separate someone going from a six to nine to how that improves their relationship values with friends or or relationship with friends with the opposite sex with all
那些事情。
the things.
我要对你的说法提出挑战。
Throw a wrench at that, what you're saying.
我要给这台机器添点乱。
I'm gonna throw a wrench at that machine.
你靠外貌吸引伴侣。
You attract a mate based on your beauty.
对。
Mhmm.
你能建立起良好的关系吗？
Are you gonna have a good relationship?
如果仅仅基于你的外貌。
If it's just based on your beauty.
那是你最看重的。
That's your number one.
就是这样。
This is it.
对。
Yep.
嗯，而且我
Well and I
再说，那样说也不公平。就是说，我们都会用眼睛看，对吧，那些不盲的人。我们首先看到的是外表。
Again, that's not fair to say that either is to say, like, we we all use our eyes, okay, those of us that are not blind We to the first thing.
但当你第一次见到你妻子时，你看到的不是她的大脑。
But when you first saw your wife, you didn't see her brain.
你看到的是她很有吸引力，这让你愿意和她交流，进而发现她其他美好的地方。
You didn't you saw she was attractive, which made you then communicate and talk to her, which then led you to all the other beautiful things
关于她的。
about her.
对。
To that.
最幸福的婚姻，不是跑题，最幸福的婚姻是那些六十多岁的人，他们在一起才几个星期。
The happiest marriages, not to go off on a tangent, the happiest marriages are people in their sixties who have been together for weeks.
我不反对这个说法。
I don't I don't disagree with that.
你建立了，你建立了
You built you built
而且他们就在那里
And they're out there
好几个月了。
for months.
爱已经成长了。
Love has grown.
你建立了一段关系。
You build a relationship.
但说实话。
But let's be honest.
如果杰西卡是个两分女，你根本不会去搭讪她。
If Jessica was a two, you wouldn't have approached her.
好吧，那我再补充一点。
Well, so again, let me let me add to that.
当我们谈论
When we talk
你会吗？
about Would you have?
我是说，你不会的。
This I mean, you wouldn't have.
好吧，让我再补充一下。
Well, let me let me let me add to that.
当我们谈论这个的时候，我们其实是在说……也许那是
When we talk about this, what we what we're Maybe it was
真的很黑暗。
really dark.
我知道。
I know.
我们通常考虑的是极端情况。
What we typically what we typically consider is, like, extremes.
比如极美，极不美。
We think of, like, extreme beauty, extreme not not good looking.
对。
Yeah.
大多数人处于中间地带，却把所有时间和精力都花在追求他们认为好看的外表上。对。
Most people are somewhere in the middle and devoting all their time and energy to try to accomplish what they think looks good Yeah.
这往往导致瘦弱和不健康，并不会带来幸福。
Which results oftentimes in skinny and unfit, does not contribute to happiness.
再加上其他因素，反而让人更不快乐。
And when you add everything else up, contributes to being less happy.
但让我们来谈谈美的客观性。
But let's talk about the objectiveness of the beauty.
给大家举个例子。
Let me give you guys a scenario.
一个体脂率29%但肌肉线条明显的女性，和一个体脂率20%但身体瘦弱的女性。
A 29% body fat woman with muscle versus a 20% body fat woman who is frail.
一整天都是这样。
All day.
对。
Yeah.
一整天。
All day.
哪一个更有吸引力？
Which one's more attractive?
对。
Yeah.
选那个符合她身形的，肯定没错。
Give me the one that that shape to her for sure.
百分之百，全天候。
100 All day.
全天候。
All day.
他们对女性也是这样。
And they do this with women.
对。
Yeah.
当女性看男性照片时，10%体脂的瘦弱男，十八、十九岁，20%体脂的肌肉男。
When women look at pictures of men, 10% frail, eighteen, nineteen, 20% muscle.
女性几乎总是，如果不是每次都选，那个更重、更胖但有肌肉的男人。
Women almost always, if not every time, pick the heavier fatter guy who's got some muscle.
所以这也是错误的。
So it's also false.
我们持有的这个信念是错误的。
This belief that we have is false.
而那些把自己限制在这种瘦弱纤细体型的人，是的。
And people who who restrict themselves to this skinny frail Yeah.
他们可能觉得这样会让自己看起来更好看。
Kind of place have this belief that it maybe is making them look better.
对。
Yeah.
不。
No.
我的意思是，我不是不同意，我觉得我们，我觉得每个人都有，不是每个人都有。
I I mean, I don't I don't disagree with I think that we I think everyone has not everyone.
那太简化了。
That's a oversimplification.
但我认为很多人都有扭曲的看法。
But I think a lot of people have a distorted view
完全同意。
Totally.
对自己身体的看法。
Of their own their own their own body.
显然，这会在那个范围内产生一些行为。
Obviously, it creates behaviors, within that parameter.
所以如果我一直在节食、节食，然后你就会把这种状态带到你的感情关系里。
So if I'm, like, restricting, restricting, and then, like, you're you're gonna bleed that into your relationships.
百分之百。
100%.
比如说，你与人互动的方式会影响那段关系的长久。
Like, the way you're interacting is gonna affect, you know, the longevity of that relationship.
再说一次，好吧。
And again, just okay.
我们来谈谈极端情况。
And we'll talk extremes.
虽然99.9%的人并不处于极端，但我们在健身圈认识一些非常漂亮、粉丝很多的人。
Although 99.9% of people are not in the extremes who are But we know very we know some very beautiful people in the fitness space who have lots of followers.
他们就是极端例子。
They're the extremes.
没人长得像他们那样。
Nobody looks like them.
对吧？
Okay?
他们受欢迎就是因为他们的外表。
They're they're they're popular because of how they look.
但很多人其实很不健康。
And but a lot of them are very unhealthy.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
很痛苦。
Miserable.
而且很痛苦。
And miserable.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
所以我的观点是，我不认为那客观上更美。
So my my point is I don't think it's objectively more beautiful.
我可以整天争论这个。
I can make that argument all day.
但即使如此，它也不会带来你认为它会带来的东西。
But even if it was, it doesn't contribute to what you think is gonna contribute.
我觉得这个方向是，你看。
And I think the the direction of this is like, look.
比如说，如果你真的非常……
Like, if you're like really
我觉得我们需要一个更好的研究，因为我觉得，嗯……
I think you're I think we need a better study because I think, like
我觉得还有很多潜力。
I think there's also a lot of potential
在另一端。
on the other end.
我觉得它很像财富曲线。
I I think I think it, like, it moves the knee I think I think it's a lot like the wealth curve.
我觉得，就像贫困和满足所有需求之间的区别，对。
I think, like, the difference between poverty and having all your needs met Yeah.
是改变人生的。
Is life changing.
对。
Yeah.
从满足所有需求到成为百万富翁，再到从百万富翁到亿万富翁，这种差距是递增的。
The difference between having all your needs met and being a millionaire and then a millionaire to a billionaire, incremental.
对。
Yeah.
几乎没什么差别。
Hardly anything.
而为了达到所有这些目标所付出的牺牲、工作和努力，以及所有的一切，是的。
And the the sacrifice, the work, the effort, and everything to do all those things Yeah.
嗯。
Mhmm.
回报递减。
Diminishing return.
可以说更痛苦，因为你到了那个地步，却发现它并不能让你快乐。
Arguably more miserable because you get there and it it doesn't make you happy.
我觉得那个所谓的吸引力曲线，随便你怎么叫它。
I think the the, whatever sexiness curve, whatever you wanna call
对。
it Yeah.
跟那个差不多。
Is similar to that.
就像是从完全不锻炼、不照顾自己、丑，我们这么说吧，到相对有吸引力的那种变化。
It's like going from completely out of shape, not taking care of yourself, ugly, we'll say, to, like, relatively attractive.
就像你，或者说你干脆
Like you're like Or how about you just
说像
say Like a
像
like a
你干脆说健康有型不就行了？
How about you just say fit and healthy?
好吧。
Okay.
健康有活力。
Fit and healthy.
没错。
That's right.
对。
Right.
所以就是相对有吸引力了。
So that relatively attractive.
对。
Yeah.
好吗？
Okay?
因为这是保持健康、身材好的结果。
Because that's that's a result of being fit and healthy.
没错。
Right.
所以，这跟做整容手术、把体脂减到9%相比，
So so that versus you getting cosmetic surgery, getting shredded to 9%.
我觉得，如果有什么回报的话，那也是非常微小的，甚至可能是负回报。
Like, I so if any return, very incremental, arguably, probably negative return for it.
我想大概就是这样。
I think it it probably follows something like that.
再说一次，重点在这里。
And again, here's the point.
我想问你们一个问题：如果你们能打个响指就让其中一件事成真，你们觉得哪一件能让美国或者世界更健康？
Like, and I'll ask you guys this If you could snap your fingers and make one of these things true, which one do you think would make America or the world healthier?
是让每个人都保持相对较高的体脂率但非常健康，还是让每个人都变瘦？
Make everybody keep everybody at a relatively higher body fat percentage but really fit or just get everybody skinny?
把种子油去掉。
Get rid of seed oils.
最糟糕的。
Worst.
他们试过了。
They tried that.
总之，没什么用。
Anyway Didn't do anything.
我想最后结论就是这样。
And I guess the the the at the end of this is this.
如果你锻炼身体，注意饮食，变得更健康，你会快乐得多。
Like, if you worked out and you ate to become more fit and healthy, you'd be way happier.
对。
Yeah.
而且效果也会更好。
And you'd get better results.
对。
Yeah.
而且副作用是，你看起来也会更好看。对。
And the side effect would be you'd actually look better anyway Yeah.
只要你专注于这些事情就好。
If you just focus on those things.
这也是我为什么一上来就提‘肥胖’这个有争议的话题，因为我觉得
And that's why I open this with the controversial being fat is I
挺有意思的。
like it.
我就喜欢这种带有争议性的话题。
I like that it's controversial.
不过，你肯定挺喜欢的。
But Of course, you like it.
这可是我的强项啊，各位。
It's my wheelhouse, you guys.
开心点。
Be happy.
吃吧，哥们。
Eat, dude.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what mean?
对。
Yeah.
好好享受吧。
Enjoy yourself.
天哪。
Jeez.
说到锻炼，你们看了亚当发的那个视频吗？我觉得是哈迪·乔潘，乔潘。
Anyway, I got speaking of workouts, did you guys watch the video Adam sent of I think it's, Hadi Choopan Choopan.
我名字念对了吗？
Am I saying his name right?
哦
Oh
我的天。
my god.
你们看到了吗？
Did you guys see that?
什么？
What?
你知道我没做什么吗？我没算那个数。
You know what I didn't do was I didn't do the math.
你算了吗？
Did you do the math?
我没算。那是多少个25磅的？是25磅的杠铃片吗？
I didn't How many 25 pound was it 25 pound plates?
对。
Yeah.
20磅的杠铃片。
The 20 pound plates.
在说什么呢？
Talking about?
你没看到吗？
You didn't see that?
没有。
No.
所以他确实发了。
So he does.
在我们的群聊里。
Our group text.
对。
Yeah.
然后调出视频。
And pull up video.
我确实看到了。
I did see it.
是的。
Yes.
我偶然看到的，你知道，它让我着迷了，因为我就
I came across it and, you know, it it I I hooked me because I just
我觉得，在我的观点里，在健美历史上，有几次是健美运动员在健身房里做了传奇般的事情，大家都津津乐道。
I'm like It's in my opinion, there's a few times in bodybuilding history when a bodybuilder did something that's legendary in the gym that everybody talks about.
比如，其中一次就是汤姆·普拉茨连续深蹲135磅30分钟。
Like, one of them was Tom Platts squatting one thirty five for thirty minutes straight.
天哪。
Oh my god.
那是其中一次。
That was one.
或者他做315磅，大概50次。
Or when he did three fifteen for, like, 50 reps.
就像有几次汤姆·普拉茨做了些疯狂的事。
It was like a couple where Tom Platts did something insane.
这个视频要上传了
This goes up
在那儿。
there.
克劳德zilla。
Claudezilla.
看。
Look.
好。
Okay.
看看他在做什么
Look what he's doing
对，给我数字。
right Give me the number.
有多少个杠铃片？
How many plates are there?
所以先是一个25，然后他们又加了一个25。
So there's a 25, then they add a 25.
他们一直在数，但从来没数清楚过。
They keep counting them never counted
数出来。
them out.
哦，所以是三。
Oh, so Three.
他们只是加45吗？
They're just adding 45?
兄弟，他做的是35。
Bro, he does 35.
他做的是这个35。
He does this 35.
30还是20？
30 or 20?
那些是什么？
What are those?
它们是20。
They're 20.
20。
20.
什么？
What?
所以他们一直在加
So they keep adding
太多五了。
too much fives.
很多吗？
Many?
然后他就这么做了。
And he does it.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我们得
We're gonna have to
道格，你能数一下盘子吗？
Doug, can you count the plates?
让我看看。
Let's see.
现在看起来有八九个。
Looks like eight or nine right now.
老兄，那是什么酒吧？
Dude, what kind of bar is that?
现在，哦，更好了。
So now oh, it gets better.
准备好了吗？
Ready?
兄弟，他这样做了两三次。
Bro, he does this two or three times.
所以不停歇。
So nonstop.
不停歇。
Nonstop.
什么？
What?
所以对于那些没在看这个视频的人，他在YouTube上做的，而且他们
So what he's doing for people who are not watching this, on YouTube And they're
把它剥下来。
peeling it off.
这是个健美运动员。
This is a bodybuilder.
兄弟，他这样做两三次。
Bro, he does it like two or three times.
他没有
He doesn't
停。
stop.
走下梯子。
Down the ladder.
没停。
Didn't stop.
他又上去了。
He goes back up again.
他在做深蹲。
He does squats.
他拿着杠铃。
He's got a bar.
那是史密斯机。
It's a Smith machine.
他们总共加了多少个25磅的片？
They're adding how many total 20 fives they go to?
20。
20.
总共20个杠铃片。
There's 20 total plates.
所以史密斯机
So the Smith
上。
machine.
所以他们
So they
做的是，他们现在加到500磅了吗？
do So is that they're up to 500 pounds?
所以他用一片25磅的做一次。
So they're he's doing one rep with one twenty five.
再加一片再做一次，一直加到每边10片。
Another rep with an additional so he goes all the way up to 10 plates on each side.
然后他们取下一片，他每取一片就做一次，一直到最轻。
Then they take one off, and he does a rep with each one all the way down.
然后他们给他加上，他一路加到最重。
Then they add him, and he goes all the way up.
然后他们再取下来，他一路减到最轻。
Then they take him off, and he goes all the way down.
他大概做两三轮，每次一个动作，这会是
He does, like, two or three rounds of a rep This would be
如果这是真正的深蹲，
so much cooler if
那会酷多了。
it was a real squat.
这家伙，别这样。
This dude, stop it.
你刚才不是吧，你不能那样金字塔加重，你
You did not just You can't pyramid that, You
兄弟，你不能这么金字塔式加重量。
can't pyramid that, bro.
别闹了。
Stop it.
就说说他做的动作有多差劲。
Just talk crap about what he's doing.
不。
No.
你不能说那个动作差劲。
You cannot talk crap about that.
你不能说差劲
You cannot talk crap
关于那个动作。
about that.
这绝对是传奇级别的。
Is this is definitely legendary.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得我做不到用两个
I don't think I could do that with two
半的。
and a halfs.
我是说，
I mean,
我是认真的。
I'm I'm dead serious.
如果你把两个半的放在两边，像那样一直往上，亚当在看我。
If you put two and a halfs all the way up on each side like that, Adam is watching me.
自重深蹲我们做得最多
Bodyweight squats we get most
我不是一个人这么想的。
I'm not alone in this.
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