奥斯汀·里弗斯访谈

我觉得你身上有某种东西。

Like, I see something in you.

跟我聊聊这个吧。

Tell me a little bit about that.

你大他几岁？

How how many years older?

你年纪大一点。

You're older.

两岁。

Two.

大两岁。

Two years older.

按理说我应该比他小三个年级，因为我17岁就高中毕业了。

Which I was supposed to be three grades younger because I I mean, I graduated high school at 17.

我妈让我早点上学，好能和他一起打两年球。

My mom started me early, so I could play two years with him.

所以我大一那年就跳级了，后来在十年级又和他一起打球。

So I moved up my freshman year and then played with him, again, my, tenth grade year.

不过说实话，他大概七年级的时候就爱上篮球了。

But, yeah, he he fell in love with basketball when he was probably in seventh grade.

把别的全都撂下了。

You know, quit everything.

他简直就是个篮球迷。

He was a gym rat.

每天晚上都去练球。

He'd go to the gym every night.

我们那小镇才一千来号人。

Like, we're in a town of a thousand people.

是啊。

Yeah.

他那时候才十二三岁，就自己开车去体育馆，这估计都不合法。

He's probably 12, 13 years old, driving to the gym, which probably isn't legal.

不过，所以说

But, yeah, so

应该算合法吧

Probably legal

时间吗？

time?

我觉得不太行。

I don't think so.

不过那就是另一回事了。

But that's another story.

他从来没

Had never

去过阿肯色州。

been to Arkansas.

你懂的。

You know?

但不，不是那样的。

But, yeah, no.

他爱上了棒球，而我还只是在棒球的边缘晃悠。

He he fell in love with it, and I was kinda still in the fringe of baseball.

我是说，我其实也挺喜欢棒球的。

Like, I I still love baseball.

大概到我八年级那会儿，他看出我有点天赋，我记得有好几次晚上七八点，他去健身房，就会问我：‘去不？’

And probably going in to my, like, eighth grade year, he I I think he'd seen that, you know, I I had ability, and I I remember there was nights that he'd be going to the gym, you know, seven, 08:00 at night, and he'd be like, you wanna go?

我当时说：‘真不想去。’

And I was like, not really.

可他直接说：‘你必须来。’

And he'd be like, you're coming anyway.

我根本没得选。

Like, I had no choice.

对啊。

Yeah.

他总把我从家里拖出去。

He'd drag me out of the house.

我们去打球，一打就是几个钟头，然后他一对一把我虐得惨不忍睹。

We'd go shoot for, you know, a couple hours, and then he'd just beat me really bad one on one.

我觉得，他这么天天把我累趴下，其实是在给自己攒信心。

I think that it was a confidence builder for him, just wearing me out all the time.

不过说真的，他可能是我人生中影响最大的篮球导师。

But, yeah, he he's probably the biggest basketball influence in my life.

他教会了我什么叫敬业精神。

You know, he he instilled work ethic.

他总把我叫到跟前，说：‘你来自阿肯色州纽瓦克，一个只有千把人的小镇。’

He would always, you know, sit me down and be like, yo, like, you're from Newark, Arkansas, the town of a thousand people.

你得比别人多付出十倍努力。

You're gonna have to do more than everybody else.

这条路，没那么容易。

Like, it it's not gonna be easy.

对啊。

Like Yeah.

后来他还上了大学。

That even it it went to college.

我记得在俄克拉荷马大学读大四或者大三那会儿。

I remember going into maybe my senior year or junior year at Oklahoma.

他把我拉到一边。

He pulled me to the side.

我们正在训练。

We were working out.

他问我：你打算怎么发展这个？

He was like, what do you wanna do with this?

你只想去海外打球吗？

Like, do you wanna just play overseas?

他说：你现在就去海外打球。

He was like, you go play overseas right now.

他说，你没必要再提升了。

He was like, you don't have to get any better.

他说，你去海外打球，照样能赚大钱。

He was like, you can go make some good money play overseas.

他说，这没什么不对的。

He was like, there's nothing wrong with that.

但如果你想当NBA球员，就得付出更多。

But if you want to be an NBA player, you got to do more.

所以我真的加码了。

And so I did more.

这太疯狂了。

It was crazy.

确实疯狂。

It's crazy.

我生活中也有类似的人，跟我聊过差不多的话，但他现在还开放吗？

I have similar people in my life that's had the same similar conversations with me, but is he still open?

他现在29岁了？

He's 29 now?

是的，他29岁了。

Yeah, he's 29.

他在德国打球。

He plays in Germany.

对，他现在混得不错。

Yeah, he's he's doing well.

他大概是八年前开始在西班牙打的，那时候根本赚不到钱。

He he started in he started in Spain, I think, probably eight years ago now, making nothing.

一路打拼，终于进了德国顶级联赛，反正他特别爱这行。

Grinded his way to the top division in Germany and just, you know, he loves it.

对啊。

Yeah.

所以我不确定他还能打几年，但他真是个篮球迷。

So, you know, I don't know how many more years he'll play, but, yeah, he's a he's a basketball fanatic.

他现在还经常指导你吗？

Does he still, like, mentor you?

就是，他还看你比赛，然后给你发消息说，嘿。

Like, he still, like, watch your games and say, like, hey.

他每场比赛都看，不过我有时候可能不太好沟通。

He watches every game, and I'm I'm probably not the easiest to talk to sometimes.

但要是我投篮手感不好，他可是比我见过的99%的人都投得准。

But if I'm going through a rough shooting stretch, he which he can shoot the ball better than, you know, 99% of the people I've ever met.

所以他懂，而且他可能比我自己还了解我。

So he does know, and he probably knows me better than I know myself.

他就给我发消息，提醒我稍微调整一下出手角度，或者再用力一点，就这种小细节。

So he'll text me and be like, move it over the ride a little bit or shoot a little hard, just little things like that.

到目前为止，这感觉挺棒的。

That's cool so far.

对。

Yeah.

我记得去年跟我们的一位助教聊天，那时候我连续27次三分球只进了两个，状态差得不行。

So I remember I was talking to one of our assistant coaches last year, and I was going I think I was, like, two from my last 27 from three going through it.

赛前我跟博聊了聊。

And I was like, oh, before the game, was talking to Bo.

我当时跟他说，别担心，今晚没问题。

I was like, don't worry tonight.

我们挺好的。

We're good.

我哥帮我调整好了。

My brother fixed me.

他问：‘啥？’

And he was like, what?

我就说：‘对啊。’

And I was like, yeah.

他把我该做的全都点明白了。

He told me everything I needed to do.

结果那场我三分球8投6中。

I think I went, like, six for eight from three.

当时他就说，让你弟接着给我发消息支招啊。

He was like, tell your brother to keep texting me.

这事儿太神了。

That's amazing.

害，他（你哥/你弟）本来就有这本事……

I mean, he's got a place to

落地都稳了

land after.

真的是

Yeah.

绝对的

For sure.

他可太懂了

He's smart.

挺酷的。

That's cool.

他挺聪明的。

He's smart.

你上大学那会儿，跟你兄弟聊那次，是什么时候啊？就是你那时候觉得……

When did was it that conversation with your brother when you were in college about the was that when you were like, okay.

我能打职业联赛？

I can play in the league?

你什么时候开始觉得自己是个NBA球员的？

Like, when did you say, like, I'm an NBA player.

你那时候真打算冲这个去的？

I'm going for this?

你小时候，是什么时候有这种想法的？

What was that when you were a kid?

我也不记得了。

I don't know.

我的意思是，我从小就特别盲目自信。

I mean, I always had, like, delusional confidence.

当然了。

Sure.

最离谱的是，我小时候住在一个一千人的小镇上。

And the the weirdest story was is, like, I was, like, like I said, from a town of a thousand people.

那儿啥也没有。

There's nothing to do.

你只能打猎、钓鱼，干这些事儿。

So you hunt, you fish, you do that.

就是那种乡村生活呗。

Like, you do all the country stuff.

我记不清这事了，但我妈当时最好的朋友有天带我去打猎，我们坐在那儿聊天，她问我：你以后想干啥？

And I remember my I don't remember this, but my mom's best friend at the time took me hunting one day, we were sitting there talking, and she was like, what do you wanna do?

那时候我大概九岁吧。

Like and I'm probably nine years old.

她就问我：‘你长大以后想干什么？’

And she was like, what do wanna do when you get older?

我说：‘我想打NBA。’

And I was like, oh, I wanna play in the NBA.

她问：‘你是说MLB吧？’

And she was like, you mean the MLB?

我说：‘不是。’

And I was like, no.

我想打NBA。

I wanna play in the NBA.

她说这事儿太离谱了，因为她说：‘你倒是打球，但根本没正经打过。’

And she was like, it was the craziest thing because she was like, you played, but, like, you didn't really, like, actually play.

可后来真就成真了。

But it really come to reality.

我当时在俄克拉荷马。

I was at Oklahoma.

有一天训练结束后，莱恩·克鲁格追上我，说他觉得我有希望被首轮选中。

Line Krueger followed me out of practice one day and told me he was like, I think you could be a first round pick.

你知道的，他打篮球可有年头了。

And, you know, he's been around basketball for forever.

他带过巴迪、特雷、布莱克这些球员。

He's coached Buddy, Trey, Blake.

我不确定他有没有带过布莱克，但反正他见惯了各种篮球天才。

I don't know he didn't coach Blake, but, you know, seeing all this basketball

他也在佛罗里达待过吗？

Was he at Florida too?

是啊，没错。

Yeah, yeah.

所以他什么场面都见过。

So he's seen everything.

他一这么说，我就觉得：哎，我真有机会了。

And once he said that, was like, Oh, like this is, I got a chance.

是的。

Yeah.

那你觉得这种不切实际的自信是从哪儿来的？

Now where do think that, like that delusional confidence come from?

哪儿

Where

你是在哪儿看到的？

did you see that?

好，我也想听听这方面的说法。

Yeah, I'd like to

再就是，这种自信后来是怎么表现出来的？

hear more on that.

就是说

Also, like, how did it then manifest?

像

Like

是的。

Yeah.

我真的说不准，因为我们看到过一些

I really don't know because it was Because we've seen some

很多妄自尊大的

a a lot of delusional

当然了。

Oh, for sure.

有些人

People

其实并没有

that didn't

它真的

it actually

根本没去到那个地步

didn't go Not for where

完全没往你预想的方向发展。

you thought it should go.

对。

Yeah.

不过确实，是啊，就是这样。

But there's, like Yeah.

有一种迷之自信，但又同时分得清现实，没把自己彻底骗进去。

There's, like, a delusional confidence, but also, like, you I still, like, maintain, like, real life.

就是说，别出门了，我自己都不外出的

Like, don't go I don't go outside.

这年头的现实啊

Reality.

没错

Yeah.

对的

Yeah.

还剩一些

Still have some

我得去工作了。

I gotta work.

没错。

Exactly.

不过说实话，小时候我就说了，输赢根本无所谓。

I don't know, though, because, like, growing up, like I said, it didn't matter what it was.

我从来没赢过我弟弟。

Like, I never beat my brother in anything.

他一对一的时候可狠了，非得把我打得落花流水。

He he would beat me as bad as he possibly could one on one.

然后我们就回家。

Then we'd go home.

接着打牌。

We'd play cards.

就是打电子游戏吧。

Was, like, video games.

我们玩的时候，我爸妈也一样。

Like, we'd play and my parents were the same way.

他们从不让我赢。

They didn't let me win anything.

才不会说，哎呀，可怜的奥斯汀，让他赢一局吧。

It was no, like, poor Austin, let him win one.

我从来没赢过。

Like, I never won anything.

所以我后来特别讨厌输，比喜欢赢还强烈。

So, like, I learned to hate losing more than I love to win.

所以我就想，不管怎样，都得想办法赢。

So, like, it was like, do whatever you can to To get Yeah.

就是为了赢。

To get a Yeah.

因为我记得第一次在一对一中赢了他。

Because I remember the first time I beat him in one on one.

我立马撒腿就跑。

I took off running.

从院子里一路冲进屋里。

Ran the house.

那时候我大概十二岁左右，他一直让我投空位球。

I it was I was probably, like, 12 or so, and he he let me shoot wide open shots.

他还说：‘你投再多也赢不了我。’

He was like, you can't make enough shots to beat me.

结果我手感爆了，一路冲进屋子里。

And I got hot, and I ran in the house.

他气得不行。

He was so pissed.

我边跑边大喊大叫。

I was screaming.

我妈问：‘出啥事了？’

My mom was like, what's going on?

不过说实话，我也说不清这股劲儿是从哪儿来的。

But yeah, it's, I don't really don't know where it came from.

就是自然而然有这么股劲儿。

It just, it's just there.

是啊，我那时候离NBA差得十万八千里，简直可笑，对吧？

Yeah, think I, like I, you know, I was so far from the NBA, wasn't even funny, right?

但我一直觉得，我愿意下苦功夫。

But I feel like I always felt like I'm willing to do the work.

如果我坚持一年、三年、五年、七年，我能走到哪一步？

If I if I do it for a year, three years, five years, seven years, where could I be?

对。

Yeah.

所以这一直是我信奉的信念。

So that was always my belief system.

你那时候也有类似的想法吗，还是你就单纯觉得我喜欢打球，想一直打下去？

Did you was there a part of that for you too or were you just like, I just love to play.

我就想一直打下去。

I wanna keep playing?

一开始我只是单纯喜欢打球。

It started off that I just love to play.

对。

Yeah.

我就想看看自己能走多远。

And I was just gonna see how far I could go.

我根本没想到能打一级联盟篮球。

Like, it would I didn't think I'd go I didn't think I played division one basketball.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我以为自己最后会去二级联盟，跟我兄弟一起打。

Like, I thought I would end up going division two playing with my brother.

为什么？

Why?

我当时没怎么……就是觉得

I didn't have like, I was

你觉得是你的球风还是环境经历哪里不一样了？毕竟你最后确实拿到了offer啊。

what do you think it was about your game or your environment experience that was like because you end up obviously getting him Yeah.

offer嘛。

Offers.

你当时的环境里，缺的是什么？

What was the gap there for you in your in your environment?

我没打过AUBA。

I didn't play AUBA.

我就打了一年AU。

I played one year AU.

曝光度？

Exposure?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这就是关键。

I think that was the main thing.

你看我现在，你还是觉得我打不了篮球。

And then you look at I mean, you look you look at me now and you're still like, you can't play basketball.

但你要是看那时候的我，我六尺五寸高，才一百六十五磅，瘦得跟竹竿似的。

But you looked at me then, I was six five, probably one sixty five, super skinny.

教练们给的反馈大多是：他个子不够大，力量不够，身体不够灵活——但健身房的存在不就是为了解决这些问题的吗？

And that was a lot of the the feedback we got from coaches was he's not big enough, he's not strong enough, he's not athletic enough, but they make weights for a reason.

我也不太清楚。

I don't know.

这挺好。

That's good.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，每个人的路都不一样，对吧？

I mean it's, everyone's journey is different, right?

是的。

Yeah.

真没想到，每个人的经历能差这么多，简直太离谱了。

It's it's crazy how everyone has a completely different journey and how disparate they can be.

但你上大学的时候，我看了你的比赛录像，真觉得你天生就是打职业的料。

But like what was, did you think was, because you went to college like I I watched your clips in college and I'm like, that's a pro.

那你觉得，为啥你没被首轮选中？

Why why do you think you weren't a first round pick?

你当时心里，真觉得是为啥呢？

Like, do you think in your heart at that time, like,

嗯，我是说，

I well

你知道吗？

You know what?

我不敢说。

I'm not allowed to say it.

真的不能说。

I can't.

明白吧？

Okay?

我知道。

I know

为啥。

why.

你懂的。

You know

那事儿有多坑。

how that shit is.

我真不是故意为难你。

And I wasn't trying to put you on the spot.

不是，因为他们看起来

No, because they look

就像以貌取人一样，我能看出来。

at they look at they look at the judge a book by his cover situation like I can.

我看到过。

I saw

那时候。

the time.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我认识的那个人不是没被选中的新秀。

That's not that that guy that I'm seeing is not a he's not an undrafted.

那种人怎么可能落选呢。

There's no way that guy goes undrafted.

我的天，拜托了，老兄。

Like, but it's come on, man.

对。

Yeah.

但我觉得选秀也是，你前十五个球员，或者说是乐透区的那些，都是有保障的。

But I just I think the draft too is you got your top 15 players or whatever the lottery is.

之后的球员，我觉得球队都想着赌一把大的。

And then after that, you just I felt like teams just try to hit home runs.

没错。

Right.

我当年参加选秀的时候是二十二岁，我记得。

And then my age was I was 22, I think, coming out.

所以他们就说，哦——

So they're like, oh

尤其是在你们那个数据分析盛行的年代。

Especially in your era of analytics.

当然了。

Definitely.

所以就是尽量选年轻、有运动能力的，可我这两样都不占，但我能帮球队赢球。

So it's like go go young, go athletic, and I wasn't either of that, but I could help somebody win.

那当然。

Obviously.

没错。

Yes.

确实如此。

Yes, indeed.

肯定的。

For sure.

我那时候想进联盟，也在琢磨：我是不是不够快？

And when you was there like a like for me when I was trying to like get there, was thinking like, maybe I'm not fast enough.

是啊。

Yeah.

那是给你的？

That was for you?

那是速度、力量，还是别的？

Was that Fast or strength or what?

全都算。

Everything.

全都算。

Everything.

好多次我都想，我得加强力量。

There was many times I was like, oh, I gotta get stronger.

我得跑得更快。

I gotta get faster.

我得更全面一些。

Gotta get more athletic.

但我很快就意识到，如果你能看懂比赛，对。

But I realized real quick that if you can think the game Mhmm.

你其实可以抵消掉一部分影响。

You can kinda negate some of that.

对。

Mhmm.

你懂的。

You know?

我真希望当初能有这种意识。

Obviously, wish I had wish I had that.

你还记得当年被选中的那58个人吗？

Do you remember all 58 guys that was drafted?

不记得了。

No.

压根记不住。

Don't.

那你当时是被选中的吗？

And you were draft?

我根本不在乎。

I don't give a damn.

你不在乎？

You don't give

不在乎？

a damn?

对，不在乎。

Nope.

我不在乎。

I don't.

我真不在乎。

I do not.

这正是你之所以成为你的原因。

That's what makes you who you are.

我发誓。

I swear.

是的

Yeah.

太忙了。

Too busy.

我肯定记得清清楚楚每一个。

I definitely would have I would remember every last one

都记得。

of them.

每次我一打，我都想把他们揍得稀巴烂，但我真不记得了。

I to tear their ass up every time I play I don't think

我认识几个。

I knew some of them.

我压根没听过。

Never heard of them.

他们肯定早就没影了。

They're definitely not around anymore.

是的

Yeah.

你现在是第几年了？

What year is this for you now?

第五年。

'5.

是的

Yeah.

第五年。

'5.

他们肯定早就没了。

They definitely not around.

对。

Yeah.

不可能。

There's no way.

对啊

Yep.

这人应该是五年前首轮选的。

This guy's in the first round from probably five years ago.

估计不是。

That's probably not.

肯定不是。

For sure.

我得去看看。

I should look at that.

那是什么？

What was that?

2021年的选秀？

The '21 draft?

是的

Yeah.

我觉得是。

Think so.

不过确实有些不错的球员。

There's some good players though.

对。

Yeah.

漂亮的一次进攻。

Good drive.

漂亮的一次进攻。

Good drive.

对。

Yeah.

如果你在听这个节目，你大概早就厌倦了那些肤浅的猛料和高光集锦。

If you listen to this show, you're probably not satisfied with hot takes and highlight reels.

你真正想了解的是比赛的深层逻辑——战术布置、临场调整，还有那些让普通球队和顶级球队区分开来的战略决策。

You wanna understand the game at a deeper level, the schemes, the adjustments, the strategic decisions that separate good from great.

这种思维方式，正是Claude擅长的。

That's exactly the kind of thinking Claude is built for.

Claude是个陪你思考的AI伙伴，而不是替你思考的工具。

Claude is an AI thinking partner that works with you, not for you.

当你想搞懂复杂的东西——比如拆解挡拆防守、研究进攻体系的演变，或者分析为什么某些对位会制造特定麻烦——Claude都会帮你深入挖掘其中的细节。

When you're trying to understand something complex, whether that's breaking down pick and roll coverage, researching how offensive systems have evolved, or analyzing why certain matchups create specific problems, Claude helps you dig into the nuance.

它不会急着给你一个简单的结论。

It doesn't rush to tidy conclusions.

它会慢慢梳理复杂性，提出跟进问题，还会给你提供可靠的出处，让你能追踪它的推理过程。

It works through the complexity, asks follow-up questions, and gives you proper citations so you can trace the reasoning.

Anthropic坚持让Claude不插广告，这意味着它专注帮你思考，而不是让你不停刷屏。

Anthropic is committed to keeping Claude ad free, which means it's optimized to help you think, not to keep you scrolling.

对于那些喜欢深入钻研自己在乎的事的人，Claude就是你一直在找的思考伙伴。

For people who love going deeper on the things that matter to them, Claude is the thinking partner you've been looking for.

去claude.ai/mindthegame免费试试Claude，看看为什么世界上顶尖的问题解决者都选它当自己的思考搭档。

Try Claude for free at claude.ai/mindthe game and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner.

接下来有请我们的制片人杰森，带来一位赞助商的特别消息。

And now over to our producer Jason for a word from one of our partners.

感谢 DraftKings 体育博彩对本节目的支持。

Thanks to DraftKings Sportsbook for sponsoring the show.

季后赛的争夺越来越激烈，压力也越来越大。

The playoff race is tightening up and the pressure is rising.

这正是传奇诞生的时刻，当然，也是填错预测表的时刻。

This is the time when legends are made and, unfortunately brackets are busted.

说实话，当赌注这么高的时候，真没什么比亲身下注更带感的了。我们的合作伙伴 DraftKings，把真金白银押在每一个进球、助攻、篮板、绝杀上——你懂的，全算上。

But let's face it, there's nothing like having skin in the game when the stakes are this high and our partners at DraftKings, they put real stakes on every single bucket, assist, rebound, buzzer, you name it.

现在新用户只要下注 5 美元，立刻送 200 美元的投注金。

And now new customers who bet $5 get 200 in bonus bets instantly.

下载 App，输入代码 mind 就行。

Just download the app and use code mind.

我最爱的玩法之一，就是把一场比赛变成串关，小注撬大奖。

One of my favorite plays is the same game parlay to turn one game into a shot at a big payout.

或者等第四节火起来的时候，我直接开直播，押那些整晚手感火热的球员的单项投注。

Or I'll go live as the fourth quarter is heating up and bet props on a player who's been cooking all night.

有了DraftKings，你不再只是看比赛。

With DraftKings, you're not just watching the game.

你就是比赛的一部分。

You're in it.

我呢，特别喜欢研究赛程强度这类东西。

For me, I like to look at strength of schedule stuff.

一支球队打胜率低于五成的队伍和高于五成的队伍，战绩差别大不大？

What's a team's record versus, you know, under 500 teams versus over 500 teams?

就是这类数据。

Stuff like that.

现在就下载DraftKings体育博彩App，用代码mind，下注5美元，立刻拿200美元免费投注金。

Download the DraftKings sportsbook app now and use code mind to bet $5 and get $200 in bonus bets instantly.

DraftKings，王冠，归你了。

DraftKings, the crown is yours.

你是在什么时候突然觉得，‘我知道了，你不是在拉斯维加斯办了个小训练营吗？而且你后来很快就签了合同’？

When was it where you were like I know you had, like, a little mini camp in Vegas, and, obviously, you got signed to a contract early.

你是什么时候真正感觉到‘我确实属于这里’的？

When was it you're like, oh, I belong?

在签合同之前，你就已经觉得‘我配得上这份合同’了吗？

And did you think before you got the contract, like, oh, I belong?

还是说，这种感觉是在赛季开始后才慢慢来的？

Or was it, like, more, like, in the season?

没有。

No.

我的意思是，拉斯维加斯那趟算是第一步。

I mean, the the Vegas thing was the first step.

第一步。

Step.

但话说回来，那会儿可是大夏天啊。

Was like but then again, like, it is the middle of the summer.

是啊。

It Yeah.

当时打的是三人制，完全不一样。

Was playing three on three, so it's it's different.

但到了揭幕战，我们对上了勇士队。

But then opening night, we played Golden State.

我第一次上场，不管是哪个级别，反正我从来没打过。

Got my literally my first ever, like, any level, any anything DMP didn't play.

第一次。

First time.

头一回。

First time ever.

我当时就想：这是什么情况？

And I was like, what the hell?

我就想，

Like, I

所以你是直接上场，心里想着‘我今天要打’？

didn't So you went in game like I'm gonna play?

我当时觉得我应该上场的。

I thought that I should've.

对。

Yeah.

但从训练营开始，其实……

But From camp Yeah.

季前赛的时候。

Preseason.

是啊。

Yeah.

我其实明白为什么，虽然我本来以为自己能打。

Like, I'm a But, like, I I understood why.

但到了第二场比赛，我们对上菲尼克斯，第四节开始时已经落后三十多分了。

But then game two, we were we played Phoenix, and we were getting beat by, like, 30 going into the fourth.

弗兰克就说，对啊。

And Frank was like, yeah.

你接着说。

Go ahead.

一开场我们就打出了高潮。

And out the gate, we we made a run.

那之后就有点儿……

And after that, it was kinda just

哦，你们当时没轮换阵容？

Oh, you were without a rotation?

是啊。

Yeah.

对啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

所以呢，年底那阵子我状态确实有点下滑，你也懂的。

So I mean, there was a there was a little, you know, stent towards the end of the year where I wasn't playing great.

又拿了几个DMP。

Got a couple more DMPs.

但从那以后，我就一直稳定在轮换阵容里了。

But basically from there on out, was in, you know, rotation consistently.

尤其是，你那些DMP拿得并不晚，但你一整年表现早就摆在那里了。

Especially, like, you don't get those DMPs late, but you've already shown over the course of the year.

而且呢，干得越多，花的时间也越多。

And you know, like, more work, more time.

你心里就想啊——

You're like

是的。

Yeah.

我就是在拼命干。

I'm doing this.

对。

Yeah.

我记得那时候我们被淘汰了，就在菲尼克斯。

And I remember I think it was we got eliminated from the playing game, and we were in Phoenix.

前一天刚跟菲尼克斯打完，我们本来打算去哪儿来着。

We played Phoenix the night before, and I think we stayed and we were about to go somewhere.

不知怎么聊到了夏季联赛，有人问他要不要参加夏季联赛。

Somehow Summer League got brought up and he was someone said something to him or asked him something about Summer League, if I should play Summer League.

他就说：别去了，整个夏天就待在球馆里苦练。

And he was like, No, just get in the gym all summer and just grind.

我当时就想：太棒了。

And I was like, oh, perfect.

不用去打那些烂球了，专心提升自己就行。

I don't have to play bad basketball and just focus on myself.

是的。

Yeah.

这

That's a

夏天打的篮球真是够烂的。

lot of bad basketball in summer.

是啊。

Yeah.

我的意思是，还挺有意思的。

I mean, it's cool.

我懂。

I get it.

没错。

Yeah.

这事儿是必要的，

It's a necessary thing,

但

but it's

不是人人都适合。

not for everybody.

他就不行。

Was not for him.

对。

No.

没错。

No.

他当时根本就不是那个状态。

Not not the way he was trending.

是的。

Yeah.

那几周本来可以用来专注提升，却跑去打那种球，根本没意义。

It makes no sense to go out there and waste those few weeks where you could be using those for, you know, locking in on what he needs to be locking in

专注该专注的事。

on.

真的在干活。

Actually working.

对。

Yeah.

你最早看到他身上啥特质时，就觉得这人有戏？第一年你就看出他将来会走这条路了？

What did you see in him early where you were like, I know the way going and stuff, where that first year, were you like, I see this?

是的。

Yeah.

对我来说，根本不用多久。

I mean, it didn't take long for me.

我看人有没有天赋，一眼就能看出来，但我更看重智商。

Like, does not take long for me when it comes to talent, for me to recognize talent, but also like, I like IQ.

对，我最看重的就是这一点，比什么都快。

Yeah, that's the one thing that I gravitate towards faster than anything.

每个人在这行都有天赋。

Everyone's talented in the area.

每个人都有天赋。

Everyone has talent.

不管你是不是第十五个上场的、双向球员、新秀，还是打了五年的、十五年的老将，都没关系。

Don't matter if you're the fifteenth guy, two way guy, you know, rookie, fifth, fifteen year guy.

真的没关系。

It doesn't matter.

每个人都有天赋。

Everyone has talent.

咱们每个人在这儿，都有自己的原因。

We all here for a reason.

但我最看重的，是那些真正懂篮球的人。

But what what my basketball mechanism and hard drive attached to is guys that know how

就是会打比赛的人。

to play the game.

对。

Yeah.

所以这就是为什么，就像他说的，不管他是哪年进联盟的，06年还是5180年，反正现在体型壮了不少。

And it's a reason why, like he's saying, know, came into the league or whatever, 06/5180, whatever the case may be, bulked up a little bit now.

但正因如此，他不是最快的，也不是身体最劲爆的，可他每场还能拿25分。

But it's a reason why he's not the fastest, not the most athletic, you know, but he's averaging 25 a game.

对啊。

Yeah.

而且打得还特别稳定。

And playing at a high level.

随便哪天，他都是对手防守名单上头号要盯防的对象。

And at any given night, he's number one on the opposing team's depth chart of this is what we gotta take away.

一旦你达到这种级别，对手的球探报告里就会把你列在最前面。

Once you start getting at that level, once you start being on opposing teams depth chart of like Scout.

他们得重点防卢卡、AR，还有我，你懂的——必须想办法限制他。

We got Luka, AR, me, you know, is We gotta take this away.

如果我们不给他留空位，不给他突破空间，我看得出他天赋不错，但更让我佩服的是他对比赛的理解，还有那种愿意拼命的劲头。

If we can't give him no Arab space, we can't give him no Like, I could see the talent there, but also saw the the knowledge of the game and the willingness to want to work.

对。

Mhmm.

没错，就是这样。

That's I'm Yeah.

你要是真在拼的话，兄弟，

If you working, bro,

如果你真想的话，

if if you wanna

你就是在拼啊。

you working

智商、努力和态度，

IQ and work and sound

技术。

skill.

我

I

不行。

can't.

真的不行。

Can't.

我怎么可能不爱你？

How can I not love you?

是的。

Mhmm.

我怎么可能不爱你？

How can I not love you?

我就只是化了个妆。

I just just my makeup.

跟我说说你的组织能力吧。

Tell me about the playmaking.

你上高中的时候，是组织进攻的那种球员，还是更偏向得分？

Were you were you in high school, were you a playmaker as well or were you more of a scorer?

没有。

No.

大一和大二那会儿和我哥一起打球，他包揽了大部分出手。

Playing alongside my brother my freshman year and sophomore year, he took the majority of shots.

所以我主要就是给他送球。

So my job was to get him the ball.

对。

Yeah.

我的任务就是把球给他送到手上。

My job we Get him the ball.

他溜走了。

He got away.

那一年，我们打的简直像支正规球队。

That year, we actually played like an actual white team.

一套战术接一套战术地打。

We ran set after set.

我们一个三分接一个三分，连着投。

We would get threes after threes after threes.

真正的白人球队？

An actual white team?

他一走，我们就只能自己上，开始打快攻了。

And then he left, and we we just had to we just started running.

我们就想着，干脆全场紧逼，打快节奏。

Like, we was like, we're gonna press and run.

这招不错。

That's good.

但说实话。

But yeah.

不是这样的。

No.

我一直都想当控球后卫。

It was I I always wanted to be a point guard.

是的。

Yeah.

你有没有在那些阶段打过控卫？

Did you ever play point, like, at any of those stages?

比如大一那会儿，你替你兄弟打控卫吗？

Like, in your freshman year where you point for your brother?

从我刚开始打篮球，一直到上大学，我基本上一直都是控球后卫。

Was it just more like I was I was basically point guard from when I started playing basketball till I went to college.

上了大学之后，你就会遇到那些比你大三四岁、身体更出色、当时球技也更好的球员。

And then, you know, going to college, you know, you you run into guys that are three or four years older and you more physically gifted and better players at the time.

但我从来都不抗拒去接受一个角色，只要能帮球队赢球。

And I never had a problem with buying into a role to help the team be successful.

我大一那年，我记得场均大概得四分。

Like my freshman year, I think I scored four points a game.

我每场可能就打十来分钟。

I might have played eleven minutes a game.

从大二那年开始，情况就慢慢好转了。

Then it just kind of trended forward after that sophomore year.

上场时间多了起来。

Got more time.

我终于能更做自己了，但一切还是围绕着怎么帮球队赢球。

Was able to be myself a little more, but it was still all about what I could do to help us win.

我觉得大二那年，威奇托州大的球队真的很强。

I felt like we had a really good team by sophomore year at Wichita State.

赛前我们排在全国第三。

We were, I think preseason, third in the country.

是啊，那支队伍真的特别厉害，但后来一切全崩了。

Yeah, we we had a really, really good team, but that all came crumbling down.

我们在锦标赛第一轮就出局了。

We got the first round of the the tournament.

但从那以后，我就明白了，我总会遇到比我还厉害的球员。

But yeah, it was from then on out, like, I understood that I'm gonna run into guys that are better than me.

没错。

Yeah.

这跟在NBA里的情况没什么两样。

Like, it's no different than in the NBA.

对的。

Like Mhmm.

哪天晚上要是他和卢卡斯手感都顺了，这种情况总会发生的。

There's gonna be times on a night basis where him and Lucas got it going.

我当时就会想，我能做些什么来尽快融入团队，帮球队赢球呢？

Like, what can I do to, you know, plug and play and help our team win?

我觉得篮球最棒的一点就是，你不用非得狂砍30分才能影响比赛走向。

You know, I think that's the beautiful thing about basketball is you don't have to go out and score 30 to affect the game.

能做的事其实多了去了。

You can do a lot of things.

你大一场均才拿4分的时候，心里还会觉得「老子是场上最厉害的」吗？

When you were a freshman averaging four a game, were you still like, I'm the best dude out here?

就是你啊

Like, you

哦，没有的事。

Oh, no.

训练的时候我可是把所有人都打趴下了。

I fried everybody in practice.

训练啊。

Practice.

你心里清楚得很。

You knew it.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以就是得适应教练的期望，诸如此类的事。

So it was, like, a matter of fitting into what the coach was expecting and all that.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我最不想做的就是，你知道的，搞砸了。

I mean, the last thing I wanted to do was, you know Yeah.

一不小心踩错步，结果上不了场。

Step on the wrong foot and not play.

就是说，那事儿啊。

Like, that was

这挺有意思的。

That's interesting.

对啊。

Yeah.

那真是我。

That was my

因为好多球员要是训练里把所有人都碾压了，反而被限制住的话。

because a lot of guys, if they're frying everyone in practice and they're getting put in a box

那真不容易。

It wasn't easy.