托德·苏切曼 - 斯迪克斯乐队 - 现代鼓手播客与大卫·弗兰乔尼

你好，现代鼓手们。

Hello, modern drummer.

我是大卫·弗兰乔内。

I'm David Frangione.

我们现在在后台。

We're here backstage.

当然，这期播客回归是来自我的挚友，世界级鼓手。

A return podcast from a dear friend, world class drummer, of course.

你们都认识并喜爱的托德·祖克曼。

You all know him and love him, Todd Zuckerman.

感谢

Thanks for

邀请我，兄弟，再次见到你真是太棒了。

having me, man, and and great great to see you again.

是的。

Yes.

见到你也很高兴。

It's great to see you too.

自从我们上次见面后发生了很多事。

A lot's happened since the last time that we hung.

希望大家去看看你的设备解析，因为我们不仅深入探讨了套鼓本身，还分析了你从珍珠鼓转投索纳鼓的原因和演变过程。

I want everybody to check out your rundown because we do a deep dive not only in the kit itself, but on the the reasons and kind of the evolution to your switching from Pearl to Sonar.

所以大家都去看看这个设备解析吧。

So everybody check out the rundown.

我们已经讨论过了。

We covered it.

我们还请社区成员提交他们想问你的问题。

We also asked the community to send us questions that they wanted to ask you.

被问得最多的问题是你为什么转换方向，这我们在总结环节已经讨论过。

One of the most asked questions was why did you switch, which we covered in the rundown.

不过还有其他一些问题，我们也会一一解答。

But there are a number of other ones as well, and we're gonna get to those.

所以请继续关注。

So stay tuned.

我们已经收集了你的问题。

We've got your questions.

我们筛选了一部分，因为如果全部回答的话，得花上一个半星期。

We picked a group of them because if we did all of them, we'd be here for a week and a half.

所以我们不得不...你知道...进行整合，不过

So we had to we had to kind of, you know, consolidate, but

我们正在处理。

we're doing that.

时间问题。

The time.

我其实...今晚之后我就要休假一周了。

I'm I'm on I'm actually off for a week right after after after tonight.

那么汤米对今晚的节目会怎么说呢？

So what what will Tommy say though about the show tonight?

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

抱歉。

Sorry.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我迟到了。

I was late.

我刚才在回答问题。

I was answering questions.

让我们先简单回顾一下。

So let's catch up for a second.

你即将发行一张新的Styx专辑，是用声纳套件制作的。

You you have a new Styx album on the way, which you did with the sonar kit.

是的。

Yes.

从创作角度来说，上一张专辑是什么？

And creatively, what's the last album?

《王冠》吗？

The Crown?

《王冠的坠落》。

Crash of the Crown.

是的。

Yeah.

《王冠坠落》。

Crash of the Crown.

那是很久以前的事了。

So that was a long time ago.

对吧？

Right?

嗯，它是2021年发行的。

Well, 2021, it came out.

我们当时在制作这张专辑。

We we worked on it.

我们在2020年疫情期间居家时完成了这张已在进行中的专辑，充分利用了这段时间。

We worked on it in 2020 when we all had some time at home, and we we made the best use of our time to, to finish a record that was already in progress.

除了疫情因素外，在音乐性和专辑创作方式上，这张专辑与之前相比有何不同或进化之处？

And how did that differ if it did between besides all the COVID stuff, like, musically and and approaching the album, how is it different or has evolved from that record to this and even previous records?

毕竟乐队存在这么久，必然有某种固定流程在运作，同时也会尝试新事物不断进化。

Because the band has been around so long that there's gotta be a certain process that kinda rolls along, and then there's other things that you experiment and try and kind of evolve to.

制作专辑有不同方式，我参与过这个乐队几种不同的创作流程。

There's different ways to create a record, and I've been involved with this band during a few of those different processes.

追溯到2003年发行的《Cyclorama》，我们当时聚在一个房间里面面相觑，就像学生时代那样问谁有灵感。

Going back to Cyclorama, which came out in 2003, we all got in a room together and looked at each other, like, school, like, who's got something?

然后有人弹段riff，我们就那样创作。

And someone plays a riff, and we wrote that way.

大约从2016年起，这些作品的真正起源源于威尔·伊万科维奇加入乐队。

From about 2016 on, the real genesis of the material came from the inclusion of Will Evankovich in the band.

他和汤米之间有特别的默契，合作无间，每当灵感迸发时就会产生火花。

And he and Tommy have a particular thing that they work really well together and sort of like when the inspiration strikes, something happens.

所以你看，他们在这张专辑里是最主要的创作搭档。

So, you know, they're the biggest writing team on this.

我知道劳伦斯也参与了这张专辑的不少创作。

I know Lawrence was in on a bunch of stuff from this record.

但我更愿意让他们先放手去做，完成后再来找我。

But I just rather have them go off and do their thing and then come to me.

我不是那种会说'嘿'的人。

I I'm not like, hey.

等等。

Wait.

我也会写歌的。

I can write songs too.

对吧。

Right.

你明白吗？

You know?

我不在乎香肠是怎么做出来的。

I don't care how the sausage is made.

我只想切点香肠吃。

I just wanna chop some sausage.

所以他们带着优质素材而来。

So they come in with with strong material.

威尔真是个打鼓天才。

Will is a really great drumming mind.

就像，很多情况下，基本的节奏就是，对。

Like, a lot of the things where, like, the basic beat is, yep.

没错。

That's correct.

我也会这么做，因为这确实正确。

That's what I would have done because that is is correct.

因为他们给你带来了样带。

Because they're bringing you demos.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这些对我来说是绝佳的模板，就像某种，嗯，彩色电影或是已经完成的画作。

So they're great templates for me, and and it's sort of like a a, like a Technicolor or a a, you know, a finished painting.

基本上会是这样，但每个人都需要加入自己的元素让它成真，真正提升到新高度。

Like, it's going to be basically like this, but everyone's gotta put their thing on it to to make it real and really take it to the next level.

但那些真正出色的样带让我能坐着听完然后说：对。

But the really excellent demos where I can sit there and go, yeah.

我喜欢这个。

I like that.

我喜欢这个。

I like that.

你知道什么会很酷吗？

You know what would be cool?

这个嘛，巴拉巴拉巴拉。

This here, blah blah blah blah blah.

而且而且，你知道，显然威尔在这些开放想法中合作起来很棒。

And and and, you know, obviously, Will's great to to work with in these open ideas.

只是我们找到了一个行之有效且尽可能无痛的方案。

And it's it's it's just we found a formula that that works and is is absolutely painless as possible.

因为很多时候可能会遇到摩擦和那些，你知道的，奇怪的日子，但至少据我所见和参与的一切都很顺利。

Because a lot of times, can have that that friction and those, you know, weird days and it's at least from what I've seen, what I've been involved with, everything's been cool.

这张唱片是谁制作的？

And who produced the record?

威尔·奥万科维奇。

Will Ovankovich.

所以他他制作了

So he he produced

这张唱片。

the record.

2016年制作了《使命》。

Produced the mission in 2016.

我想那是在2017年发行的《撞碎王冠》和这部尚未命名的新作。

I guess that came out in 2017, crashing the crown and this new one, which is yet untitled.

好的。

Okay.

当你去录制这张唱片时，你在黑鸟录音室一天内完成了12首歌。

When you went and you tracked this record, you did 12 songs in one day at Blackbird.

这是真的吗？

Is that true?

确实如此。

That that is correct.

当我等待Sonar鼓组的收货时——这比预期延迟了一些——我已经充分准备好录制下一张Altaforma专辑的约六首歌、下一张Finally George专辑以及这张专辑。

As I was waiting for receipt of the Sonar drums, which was delayed a little bit beyond what I thought it was going to be, I was wildly prepared to record the next Altaforma record, about six songs on the next Finally George record, and this record.

所以，在等待期间，我保持着练习习惯，不断演练所有这些素材。

So I I well, as I was waiting, I kept in my practice routine playing through all this material.

录制它，拍摄它，坐在那里，你知道的，在我女儿睡觉后，然后，嗯，对，对，对，对，那里有些不同。

Recording it, filming it, sitting there, you know, after my daughter goes to bed and and, you know, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, something different there.

对。

Yep.

对。

Yep.

所以当鼓组终于送达，录音红灯亮起时，我已经完全准备好了。

And so when it came time for the drums to arrive and the red light to be pressed, I was wildly ready.

因此当我们去纳什维尔录制新专辑《Sticks》时，简直一气呵成。

So when we went in to do the record in Nashville, the new Sticks record, it was just like bang, bang.

每首歌都只需一两次录制。

Everything was one or two takes.

然后我们暂停去吃午饭。

And we stopped for lunch.

转眼间我们就只剩两首歌要录了。

And before you know it, we only had two songs left to go.

当时大概是凌晨五点半。

And it was like 05:30.

当威尔建议说让我休息一下明天再来时。

And when Will suggested, let me take a break and and and come in tomorrow.

我当时就说，咱们继续吧。

I'm like, let's go.

我已经准备好了。

I'm I'm ready.

我状态正佳。

I'm here.

我们现在就立刻开始吧。

Let's let's let's do it now.

所以我们就这样继续了。

So we yeah.

晚饭前就完成了整张专辑的录制。

The the record was done by dinner.

而且我对专辑里要演奏和表达的内容都了然于心。

And I, you know, I knew everything that I wanted play and say on on the record.

我和威尔早就把所有细节都过了一遍，他只是说了句'好的'。

And, you know, Will and I had already gone over everything, and Will was just, okay.

下一首。

Next.

所以，那真是太棒了。

So it it was it was great.

那种感觉就像是老派的录音方式。

It was it was it was like recording old school.

哇。

Wow.

而且，你描述的准备工作，首先你总是对你做的每件事都过度准备。

And and the preparation, what you're describing is, you know, first of all, you always overprepare everything that you do.

因为你做了很多这样的工作：拿到素材后，在我看来，你会非常迅速地完成改编。

Because you do a lot of sessions where you get material and you turn it around, I would say, in my opinion, very quickly.

对吧？

Right?

有人雇你为一首歌或专辑演奏，从你的工作流程来看，效率非常高。

Somebody hires you to do a to play on a song or an album, and it's from what I see in your workflow, it's very rapid.

当你有充足时间时，我想充分利用这个优势。

When you have the luxury of time, I wanna put that to my benefit.

我不想敷衍了事地应付，写些小抄然后全程盯着谱子演奏。

I don't wanna kinda fluff my way through things and write cheat sheets and just try to you know, I'm reading a chart the whole time.

我想真正了解这首歌。

I want to know the song.

我希望它能在深夜将我唤醒，萦绕在我心头。

I want it to haunt me when I'm, you know, waking up in the middle of the night.

我想要参与创作对话，理解歌曲的主题和歌词含义。

I I I want to be in the conversation, in the composition, know what the song's about, know what the lyrics are.

这样一来，我就能像电影摄影师对待音乐中的鼓手那样展现自己，而不是仅仅敲打出那些——我知道这听起来有点泛泛——勉强过得去的东西。

And then that way, I can project myself almost like a cinematographer as the drummer on a piece of music as opposed to just banging out stuff that's I know this is kind of generic, it's to be fine.

但如果你有时间上的余裕，我认为善加利用是件好事。因为你看，我可能花六周时间琢磨一段音乐，突然在第六周时豁然开朗，某些东西变得清晰——比如这里本该如此处理，而这完全不是我最初直觉能想到的。

But I if you have the luxury of time, I think it's it's good to use that to your advantage because then, you know, I I could have a piece of music for six weeks, all of a sudden in the sixth week, I'm like, something came into into focus or something became clear like that this is what should happen here that I wouldn't have thought of on my first instinct.

当然有时候你的第一直觉也可能是正确的。

Now sometimes your first instinct is it can be correct.

不过话说回来，你也知道，香肠的做法有千万种。

But then again, you know, there's a million ways to make sausage.

就拿《Sticks》这张专辑来说，从鼓组延迟到最终完成之间的这段时间——我们永远无法预知。

And in the case of the Sticks record, you have this time between the drums being delayed and just and the time that you just you know, we never know.

但这次确实很顺利。

But in this case, it worked out.

所以你把握住了这段时间并充分利用了它。

So you had the time and you utilized it.

这当然应该能确保不留遗憾。

And and that certainly should lead to no regrets.

对吧？

Right?

因为当你听这张专辑时，它完全符合你最初的构想和你想要的声音效果。

Because you listen to the record and it's exactly how you envisioned it and what you wanted it to sound like.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

那相反的情况呢？

What about the opposite of that?

因为你身处双方立场。

Because you're on both sides of it.

我看到你的录音室日程表，比如这首来自德国的歌，那位来自澳大利亚的艺术家刚发来的作品，你并没有匆忙应付，而是按部就班地推进，因为你和他们都有各自的档期安排，这更像是你那种音乐商业日程，与你刚才举的简陋例子截然不同。

I see your studio session calendar and it's like, you know, oh, this song's in from Germany and this just sent this artist from Australia and and you're and you're not rushing through it, but you're just moving through it because you have a schedule and they have a schedule and, you know, it's more of your kind of music business schedule as opposed to the sticks example you just gave.

这算是最理想的情况了。

It's kind of the best case scenario.

那么当遇到完全相反的情况，比如你某天或典型录音室档期时，你会怎么处理？

So what do you do on the opposite of that when you have a day or, you know, like, your your typical studio sessions, how do you approach it?

因为很多人都想让你参与唱片录制。

Because a lot of people want you to play on the record.

当你能腾出时间时，你不可能花六周去听一首歌对吧？

And when you can make time, you don't have six weeks to listen to the song, do you?

其实很多时候我有这个时间，因为我会随乐队外出巡演。

Well, a lot of times I do because I'll be out on on a run with the band.

所以他们常问：你什么时候能处理这个？

So they'll say, when can you get to this?

比如现在是一月份，

And I might you know, right now is January.

我可能会说：三月底才能处理某些事

And I might say, well, I can get to something in in late March

免费的那种。

for free.

所以你其实经常有缓冲时间。

So you do have runway a lot of times.

他们会把音乐发给我。

They'll they'll send me the the music.

而我再次，我很享受那种时间的奢侈。

And I I again, I like having that that luxury of of time.

我会坐在那里，一遍遍聆听这首没有鼓声的乐曲。

And I'll sit there and I'll listen I'll listen to the the the piece of music with no drums.

我会登上飞机，清晨六点坐在那里思考：我想从这首音乐里听到什么？

And I'll get on an airplane and I'll sit there 06:00 in the morning and I'll think, what do I want to hear on this piece of music?

而不是想着如何用这首音乐来满足自我或炫技。

Not how can I use this to inflict my ego or cool things on this music?

现在是清晨六点。

It's 06:00 in the morning.

我只睡了三个小时。

I'm on three hours of sleep.

我身心俱疲，但仍坐在这里聆听这首乐曲。

I'm I'm I'm physically and mentally tired, but I'm sitting here listening to this piece of music.

我想从中听到什么？

What would I like to hear on this?

经过足够多次这样的思考，结合与艺术家的沟通，会指引我找到特定方向。

And then doing that enough times will inform me of a particular direction, also predicated on the communication with the artist.

我从事的是服务行业。

I'm in the service industry.

他们想要什么？

What do they want?

你想要什么样的军鼓？

What type what type of snare drum would you like on this?

你原版演示中的某些过门段落必须保留，少了这些你会哭的。

So there are certain fills from your original demo that you must have, that you'll you'll cry if you don't have that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以能否交出令艺术家或制作人满意的优质作品，归根结底取决于你们之间的信息交流和对话讨论。

So being able to hand in a quality work that pleases the artist or producer, it comes down ultimately to the information and the conversations that you have, the discussions

这需要大量沟通。

It's lot of communication.

沟通。

The communication.

这就是我刚才想不起来的词。

That was the word I couldn't think of.

我连'沟通'这个词都说不出来。

I couldn't communicate communication.

但这确实很重要。

But that's that's a big one.

而且很多人... 非常重要。

And a lot of people Huge.

忽视了这点，不仅是鼓手，所有音乐人、制作人、工程师都是。

Miss that, not just drummers, all musicians, producers, engineers.

他们开始把很多事视为理所当然，要么因为自身经验，要么其他原因。

They they just they start to take a lot of things for granted from their own experience or whatever the reason might be.

然后在那之后，你知道，哦，是军鼓。

And and then in that comes later on, you know, oh, the snare drum.

你知道为什么军鼓的音调这么高吗？

You know, why is the snare drum so high pitched?

就像，这本来应该是，你知道，一个非常深沉的反拍节奏，然后你就会觉得，好吧。

Like, this is supposed to be, you know, a really deep backbeat, you know, and then you're like, well, okay.

但你打算什么时候告诉我这件事？

But when were you gonna tell me that?

我刚把音轨剪了。

I just cut the track.

因为你也必须意识到，很多时候音乐人、艺术家们，他们可能已经和这首曲子相处了六周到六年不等。

Because also, you you have to realize that a lot of times that the musicians, artists, whatever, they they may have had this piece of music in their life for six weeks to six years.

所以你做的任何改动，如果有问题都会立刻引起他们的注意。

And so anything that you do differently is going to make their ears perk up if something's wrong.

出问题了。

Something's wrong.

所以现在他们看到的是埃菲尔铁塔，但被涂成了口红红色。

So now they're seeing the Eiffel tour the Eiffel Tower, but it's lipstick red.

是啊。

Yeah.

他们觉得没问题。

And they're okay.

还是那样。

Still that.

但现在突然之间，如果你不去用吊镲或者通鼓听起来不一样，他们手头有极限样本，他们需要克服这一点。

But now all of a sudden if you don't go to a ride cymbal or the toms sound different, they have the extreme demo it is and they need to get over that.

不过确实，这是在提交音轨前需要讨论的事情。

But yeah, it's something that needs to be discussed before handing in the the your tracks.

你你你必须传达出我们没问题的信息。

You you you have to communicate that we're okay.

我们都在同一页上（达成共识）。

We're all on the same page.

明白了。

Got it.

你们是通过书面还是口头方式进行？

And do you do that in writing and verbally?

还是说你们有双重流程？

Or do you have a process for both.

好的。

Okay.

两者都有。

Both.

所以这总是...顺便说一句，我也很赞同这种做法。

So it's always a I'm a fan of that too, by the way.

我认为所有内容都应该书面化，因为这样能具体记录说过的话，毕竟人们——包括我——会忘记。

Is it I think everything should be in writing because it really kind of captures what's being said in a very concrete way where people forget, including me.

我经常忘记很多事情。

I forget a lot of things.

所以然后我可以说，你正式告诉过我你想要这里有个高音书呆子。

So And then I I can say, you legally told me that you wanted a high pitched nerdum on here.

不。

No.

我有书面记录。

I have it in writing.

我的商业头脑在运转，没错。

My my my business brain is going, that's right.

但是不行。

But no.

不行。

No.

这是真的。

It's true.

从创作角度说，你本质上是希望每个人都开心，并且得到那种音乐

Creatively, you want everybody to be happy is what it really comes down to and get the music that

大卫，如果你做对了，你就是在服务行业。

they David, if you're doing this right, you're in the service industry.

从没有人问过，嘿，我们能在鼓上贴胶带吗？

Never once if someone said, hey, can we put tape on the toms?

或者我们能拆掉底鼓的前鼓皮吗？

Or can we take the front bass drum head off?

我从来没有说过，不行老兄，那不是我的风格。

There's never once I went like, no, man, that's not my sound.

如果我那样做，就再也见不到这些人了。

If I do that, then I'm never going to see these people.

我将再也收不到这些人的消息。

I'm never going to hear from these people again.

我宁愿让他们开心，这样他们才会回我电话。

I'd rather make them happy and have them, you know, call me back.

我宁愿靠打鼓来支付账单，也不愿坐在那里空有自尊却连保险账单都付不起。

And I'd rather pay my bills playing drums than sitting there with a with an ego that's that's not taking care of my insurance bills.

我们从事的是服务行业，我很乐意让他人感到快乐。

It's we're in the service industry, and I'm I'm happy to make others happy.

我喜欢这个观点。

I love that.

而且你知道，归根结底都是感恩之心，兄弟。

And, you know, it all comes down to gratitude, my brother.

我们俩都对能以专业谋生心怀感激——为打击乐社区服务，首先是为你们服务，其次是为所有艺术家和相关人员服务。因为打击乐社区源于音乐社区，而音乐社区又源于观众。

We both have tremendous gratitude for being able to make a living at what we do, serving the drum community, serving you guys first and foremost, and then all the artists and everyone involved because the drumming community exists from the music community, and the music community exists from the audience.

这才是最根本的。

And that's really what it comes down to.

就像你描述的，在我们所谓的B2B端、创意者之间的受众，就是那些决定给我们机会与他们共同发挥作用的艺术家。

And like you're describing, our audience on what I'll call the business to business side, the creative to creative, is that artist that has decided they're gonna give us an opportunity to to play our role for them and with them.

而且这其中有个过程。

And, and there's a process to it.

听众听到的最终成品并不重要，真正重要的是实现这个结果的过程——比如良好的沟通、充分的对话，以及书面确认等重要方法。

It's not what the what the person hears that's listening is the end result, but what actually goes into getting the end result are really important approaches like good communication, having a conversation, and having it in writing.

再说一次，当你讨论不同的录音方式时，a方案需要完全不同的技能组合。

And and there's again, when you talk about different ways to record things, it's a different skill set to, a, do that.

而b方案这种老派方式——接到电话后亲自去录音棚、和陌生人握手——又需要另一套技能。

And it's a different skill set to, b, the old school way where you you get called and you actually go to a recording studio and you're shaking hands and here's a dude that you don't know.

好吧。

And, okay.

假设有个拿木吉他的人开始演奏，好吧。

And let's say you got a guy with an acoustic guitar going, okay.

这首歌是这样的。

The song goes like this.

于是你立刻开始观察贝斯手和吉他手。

So you immediately, you're looking at whoever's on bass, whoever's on guitar.

你必须把这段旋律转化成作品。

You have to take this and turn it into something.

没错。

Right.

就像这样。

Like that.

这完全是另一种需要即兴发挥的技能。

That that's an entirely different skill set that is like sort of on the spot.

然后你们所有人都在实时即兴创作。

And then you're all cooking in real time.

就像当年录音棚黄金时代那样。

The wrecking crew days.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，那些录音室辉煌的日子。

I mean, the grand days of any recording sessions.

但现在大家都有了家庭工作室，模式已经改变，你往往能享有充裕的时间。

But now with everyone having their home studio, the paradigm has changed where very often, you do have the luxury of of time.

没错。

Right.

不用赶时间了。

It's not on the spot.

我会尽可能利用这个优势。

Use that to my advantage as much as I can.

你的家庭工作室已经用了多久了？

And you've had your home studio for how long now?

哎呀。

Oh, boy.

最初只是个鼓房，一个隔音的练习室，后来根据需要改造成了录音室。

It's, well, it started out as a drum room, a soundproof practice room that turned into a recording studio by necessity.

后来又根据需要变成了电影工作室。

And then it turned into a film studio by necessity.

所以我也说不清。

So I don't know.

我觉得接下来可能根据需要变成星巴克或Jamba Juice果汁店了。

I think it's gonna be a Starbucks or a Jamba Juice next, out of necessity.

但不行，我已经受够了。

But no, I've had it.

但是个摇摆的。

But a grooving one.

是啊。

Yeah.

从2009年起这里就是个录音棚了，我想，我搞定了所有IT设备——花了我不少时间，因为我真的很佩服你们的工作。

It's been a recording studio now for 2009, I think, I got all that It stuff took me a while because basically, I admire what you guys do.

你们懂得如何操作所有这些设备。

You know how to run all that stuff.

我是个老派的人。

I'm an analog guy.

我有根鼓棒。

I have a stick.

那里有张鼓膜。

There's a membrane.

我敲击它。

I hit it.

我不需要处理更新和下载。

I don't have to have updates and downloads.

现在我的地板时间（指设备）不和另一个地板时间交流了，因为它不喜欢那个更新。

And now this isn't now my my my floor time is not talking to my other floor time because it didn't like the update.

我需要工程师来处理所有这些事。

I need an engineer to do all that stuff.

我...我不是个有耐心的电子设备维修工。

I'm I'm not a patient electronics troubleshooter.

好吧。

Okay.

所以我宁愿...你知道的，JR·泰勒从2007年起就是我的搭档。

And so I'd rather have I've you know, JR Taylor's been my guy since 2007.

他...他负责处理所有那些技术问题，我就能专心在音乐和...和我想演奏的内容上。

He he looks after all that stuff, and I can just pay attention to the music and and and what I wanna play.

而且一切运转正常，因为他干得很出色。

And everything works because he's doing a great job.

虽然一切正常，但他...他总会在录音时突然做些事然后说'这很有趣'。

And everything works because but he he'll he'll invariably always do something at the session and go, that's interesting.

就像那样，那会...那会把我逼进精神病院的。

Like, there, that would that would drive me into the the nervous hospital.

就是那种情况，但他...他就是这么应对的，因为你需要那种性格。

It's it's just one of those, but he that's how he handles it because you need that sort of disposition Yeah.

然后说'这很有趣'。

To go, that's interesting.

然后回答'不'。

And be like, no.

这一点都不有趣。

That's not interesting.

说明书上说它应该这样运行才对。

It says it's supposed to work when it works like this.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，知道他把一切都安排得井井有条，这感觉真好。

So it's it's nice it's nice knowing that he's got everything well at hand.

感谢您观看并支持《现代鼓手》的所有内容。

Thank you for watching and supporting everything Modern Drummer is up to.

请点击下方的订阅按钮。

Hit the subscribe button down below.

这对我们意义重大，因为我们会持续为您带来最优秀的鼓手和内容。

It means so much to us because we keep bringing you the best drummers and content all the time.

请务必逛逛我们的商店。

And please check out our shop.

我们有传奇鼓手系列书籍。

We've got legends books.

我们有往期杂志。

We've got back issues.

我们还有周边商品。

We've got swag.

鼓手社区所需的一切应有尽有，有你们的参与是最令人兴奋的部分。

Everything the drumming community could want, and it's so exciting to have you guys be the best part of it.

再次感谢，请享受视频的剩余部分。

Once again, thank you, and enjoy the rest of the video.

我们收到了很多问题，最终挑选了五个。

We had a lot of questions, and we picked five.

所以亚当·克莱顿（代号13）问，对于在套鼓上培养乐感和流畅性来创作歌曲和独奏的鼓点部分，你有什么建议？

So Adam Clayton the figure 13 asks, what are your tips for developing musicality and flow on the kit to craft drum parts for songs and solos?

所以这是U2乐队的亚当·克莱顿提出的问题。

So this was asked by Adam Clayton of U2.

这让我非常受宠若惊，他竟然会来请教我。

That's very I'm very flattered that, he would ask me.

是啊。

Yeah.

太棒了。

It's great.

谢谢你，亚当。

Thank you, Adam.

我们都是你的忠实乐迷

We're big fans of yours

我想要两张下场演出的门票。

I would love a pair of tickets to the next show.

培养创作流畅性关键在于花时间学习基本功、击棒技巧和复合击鼓手法，通过练习掌握它们，理解如何通过改变编配和音符速率来创新。

Developing flow in creativity is a matter of spending the time of being able to learn rudiments and stickings and compound stickings on the drums, being able to practice them, understanding what you can do by changing the orchestrations, the note rates.

然后你会意识到这些元素就像字母表。

And then you realize that these things are alphabets.

所以接下来就是构建句子，再进一步组成段落，因为你已经掌握了这些素材。

So it's a matter of constructing sentences and then you're constructing paragraphs because you have this information.

随着演奏经验积累，你会逐渐掌握如何行云流水地表达。

And as you play, as you gain more experience, you you learn to flow.

你明白其中的门道。

You know what goes.

你知道这东西的出口在哪里。

You know where the exit door of this thing is.

你也知道我能从这个想法入手。

And you know I can go into this thing from this this type of idea.

还需要稍微放手一搏，看看会发生什么。

And there's also a modicum of letting go and just seeing what happens.

要知道，有时你会把车撞到树上，有时却能演奏出你绞尽脑汁也构思不出的旋律。

You know, sometimes you'll you'll crash your car into a tree or or sometimes you'll play something that you never could have conceived had you tried to compose it.

所有这些练习方法都有效，但关键在于积累经验，不断演奏、演奏、再演奏，让自己在鼓上彻底释放。

All those those those practice things are valid, but it's it's a matter of experience and playing and playing and playing and just letting yourself be be free on on the drums.

彼得·厄斯金说过一句挺俏皮的话。

And Peter Erskine says something that's kinda cute.

打鼓很简单。

Playing drums is easy.

只管演奏你接下来想听到的节奏。

Just play what you wanna hear next.

这话虽带调侃，但确实蕴含智慧。

Now that's tongue in cheek, but there is there is some wisdom to that.

当你演奏时，接下来想听到什么？

What as you're playing, what do you wanna hear next?

这样你就不会陷入某种肢体习惯——比如做这个动作就永远重复，或者所有过门都往下打嗵鼓。

And and so you don't get caught up into any sort of physical habits where if I do this, I'm always doing this, or all my fills are down the toms.

你可以沿着通鼓往上打。

You can go up the toms.

可以在通鼓之间移动。

Can go in between the toms.

开始试着把事情分解成小块来思考。

Start, you know, thinking of things in smaller chunks.

不要陷入这种重复模式，觉得必须这样做，否则就会变成一种紧张的习惯性动作。

Don't get caught into this is my repetition, and I have to do this because then that's that's that's like a nervous tick or a habit that you you have to do.

但没有什么能替代经验，也没有什么能替代在鼓上花费的时间。

But there's nothing like experience, and there's nothing like time, spent on the drums.

录下自己的演奏。

Record yourself.

拍摄自己的演奏。

Film yourself.

回放时对自己诚实，并给予耐心和善意，因为这些东西需要时间慢慢打磨。

Listen to it back, be honest with yourself, and give yourself the patience and kindness to work on this over time because this stuff is hard.

你描述的是建立一套词汇库，然后根据音乐情境随时调用。

And you're describing building a vocabulary up so then you can draw from that whatever the musical situation is.

是的。

Yes.

有时候掌握所有这些信息后，演奏最简单的东西反而最好。

And then sometimes it's good to have all this information and then play the simplest thing possible.

你说的很可能完全正确。

And that's you're you're and you're probably right on.

是的。

Yeah.

丹·海恩斯在一千次拉伸时。

Dan Haynes at stretched one thousand.

他问，托德，你在演出期间或之后是否经历过腰部或关节疼痛？

He asked, Todd, do you ever experience any lower back or joint pain during or after shows?

如果有，你会采取什么措施来缓解或预防？

If so, what do you do to alleviate or try to prevent it?

我现在年纪大了，疼痛似乎更频繁地出现。

I'm older now and pain seems to rear its head more.

感谢你精彩的演奏。

Thanks for your beautiful play.

好的。

Alright.

嗯，谢谢你的夸奖。

Well, thanks for your compliment.