治疗师的情绪工具包：助你度过更美好的假日时光

这是一位名叫戈登的听众发来的。

This is from a listener named Gordon.

感恩节是我一年中最喜欢的节日，从小时候起就是如此。

Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday of the year, and it has been since I was very young.

我已经五年没和我的兄弟或姐妹说过话了，这一切都围绕着戒酒问题。

I have not spoken to my brother or sister in five years, and that all circles around sobriety.

众所周知，感恩节是拿出美酒、欢乐气氛，在餐桌上进行各种家庭讨论的时刻。

As we all know, Thanksgiving is a time to pull out the wine and good cheer and have all sorts of family discussion across the table.

今年我面临的困境是，我父亲已经92岁高龄，时日无多了。

This year, my difficulty is that my father is 92 and not much longer for this world.

我是否应该和解，重新回到家庭聚餐的混乱和酒精泛滥中？

Do I reconcile and go back to the chaos of the family meal and the alcohol flowing?

你对戈登的处境有什么看法？

What do you think about Gordon's situation?

我在想，是否有机会控制我们参与这种体验的时间长度？

You know, I wonder is there an opportunity to time how long we'll be in that experience?

也许聚餐时间是四到五小时，而你的忍耐限度大约是一小时。

Maybe the the dinner and gathering is four to five hours, and maybe your tolerance level is about an hour.

这是你五年来首次以这种方式与家人共处，如果这是你能承受的极限。

That's you being with your family in a way that you haven't been with them in the last five years, if that's what you can tolerate.

你知道，可能餐后才开始饮酒，也可能餐前就开始了，我不太确定。

You know, maybe the drinking starts after dinner, maybe it starts before, I'm not really sure.

但我认为设定一个你能承受的体验时长，甚至安排几次中途离场的机会很重要。

But I think having some sort of timeframe that you can allow yourself to be in that experience, or even having some opportunities to step away.

如果你要待上四五个小时，或许可以安排10次小憩，对吧？

So if you stay there four to four or five hours, maybe you have 10 little air breaks, right?

你可以走到室外深呼吸，绕着街区散步，或听些音乐——做任何能让你在那种场合保持镇定的事。

So you go outside, you take some breaths, you walk around the block, or you listen to some music, whatever you need to do to sort of ground yourself to be in that experience.

但我听到这位来电者说，考虑到父亲年事已高，与家人团聚非常重要。

But I hear this caller saying that it's very important to be with family given, that his father is aging.

那么当家人本身成为问题时，我们该如何与他们相处呢？

And so how can we be with family when they are problematic?

也许不是以我们过去惯常的方式，甚至不是以他们期望的方式。

Maybe it's not in the typical way that we've done it in the past or even in the way that they would want.

我们该如何参与其中，同时又能在这场经历中保持自我？

How can we show up and still preserve ourselves in that experience?

因此事先规划将变得非常重要。

And so planning before is going to be really important.

如果你已经五年没和兄弟姐妹联系了，可能就不该选择在这一天相见，让团聚变成你们所有人第一次尴尬相处的时刻。

So if you haven't talked to your siblings in five years, you may not want to see them on this day and have this like, this is the first awkward moment of you all being together.

所以需要事先进行某种沟通——嘿，你知道我们很久没联系了，但我计划今年感恩节和大家一起过，我只想确保我们在共处一室前能消除隔阂。

So some sort of conversation beforehand, hey, you know, know we haven't talked in a while, but I'm planning to be with you all for Thanksgiving this year and I just want to make sure that we clear the air before we're in that space.

父亲日渐年迈，我想确保这次所有子女团聚能给他留下美好的回忆。

Dad is aging And I want to make sure that it's a really good, you know, experience for him to see all of his children together.

在那天之前我们需要沟通哪些事情？

What sort of things do we need to talk about before that day?

完全同意。

Totally.

那种准备工作。

That kind of prep work.

我是说，这正是我打算说的。

I mean, was what I was going to say.

我能想象在感恩节那天见到多年未见的兄弟姐妹会带来很大的压力和情感负担。

I could imagine it would be a lot of pressure and emotional weight to see these siblings who you haven't seen for years on the day of Thanksgiving.

所以像你说的那样做好准备工作。

So doing that prep work like you're saying.

我的意思是，你某种程度上已经回答了这个问题，但我想具体说明一下。

I mean and you sort of answered this, but I wanna be specific about it.

只是说明一下，我不确定这是否是戈登的确切情况，但我觉得这很相关。

Just to note that I don't know if this is Gordon's exact situation, but I I feel like this is pertinent.

就像是，你该怎么办？

It's like, what do you do?

你会如何建议那些在节日期间家人大量饮酒而自己保持清醒的人？

How would you advise someone if their family drinks a lot on the holiday and they're sober?

对于这种情况你有什么建议吗？

What what would your tips be for that kind of situation?

是啊，这确实很难办。

Yeah, that's tough.

因为你显然没法让他们不喝酒。

Because you certainly can't make them not drink.

我觉得这其实是我们想要的解决方案。

And I think that's the solution that we want.

比如，怎样才能让这个节假日总喝很多酒的人不喝呢？

Like, how can I make this person who drinks a lot on the holidays not drink?

这个问题我们解决不了。

And we can't solve that.

但我们可以解决的是我刚才提到的，你可以决定要参与他们饮酒活动多久。

But what we can solve is what I mentioned, you can figure out how long you want to be a part of their drinking experience.

你可以带些不含酒精的特调饮品，他们想喝就喝，不喝也没关系。

You can bring some concoctions that don't include alcohol, they can partake if they want to and if they don't, that's fine.

你可以这样，给自己设定一个退出的时机，比如当某人开始反复讲同一个故事十遍的时候，我就该撤了。

You can have like this, you know, sort of leave window that when so and so starts starts to to get get to to this this point of like retelling their story 10 times, I'm out of here.

就是这个时候。

It's time.

这就是我的信号。

That's my indicator.

所以给大家列些信号清单，因为有时候当他们开始争论我们12岁时的陈年旧事时，我们就知道该撤了。

So having a list of indicators for people because sometimes we know when they start arguing about this story from when we were 12 years old or something, it's like Yeah.

这就是我该收拾小包开溜的信号，对吧？

That's my indication to get a little to go bag and get on out of there, right?

所以，要清楚自己即将面对什么状况，并且心知肚明。

So, having some idea of this is the situation I'm walking into and I know it.

没错。

Yeah.

我清楚状况是怎样的。

I know what the situation is.

我必须制定一个与过去不同的计划。

I have to have a plan that's different from what I've done in the past.

对。

Right.

因为我可不想重温2007年的感恩节。

Because I'm not going to re experience, Thanksgiving two thousand seven.

我们不会再那样做了。

We won't do that one anymore.

我们将会有新的体验，因为我在尝试做些新的事情。

We'll have a new experience because I'm trying to do some new things.

我真的很喜欢那个'预警信号清单'的想法。

I really like that, a list of indicators.

你知道，我最后的问题可能是，即使戈登做了你说的这些准备工作，感觉他有了计划，但真要决定去的话，无疑还是会很不舒服。

You know, my maybe my final question here is like, if Gordon decides to go, even if he does this prep work like you're talking about, feels like he has a plan, it will undoubtedly be uncomfortable.

对吧？

Right?

情感上会感到不适。

Emotionally uncomfortable.

嗯。

Mhmm.

一个人如何判断让自己陷入不愉快的家庭处境是否值得？

How does one decide if putting yourself into an uncomfortable family situation is worth it?

我认为这取决于你有多渴望，有多想和家人团聚。

I think it depends on how bad you want it, how bad you want to be with family.

而且我不认为作为治疗师的我能为来访者做这个决定。

And I don't I don't think myself as a therapist can determine that for a client.

我也无法为听众做这个决定。

I can't determine that for a listener.

比如，你有多渴望参与这次相聚，又有多难以忍受这种不适？

Like, how bad do you want to be in this experience versus how bad is the discomfort?

有些不适是可控的。

There can be discomfort that is manageable.

并不是每次参加社交或家庭聚会都必须是最愉快的体验。

It's not like every social or family gathering that you go into has to be like the most pleasant ever.

不，也许在某些场合你会有点焦虑，但你挺过来了，学到了经验——比如我知道如果在某个时间点离开，就能应付得了所有亲戚都在喝酒的感恩节聚会，对吧？

No, maybe, you know, you have a little anxiety in some situations, you survive it, you learn, I can survive a Thanksgiving with all my relatives drinking if I leave at this time, right?

就像——也许你能做到，关键是要弄清楚自己对不适感的承受阈值在哪里。

Like -And maybe you can do it, you know, it's like you have to figure out what your threshold is for the discomfort.

是的。

Yeah.

有点情绪很正常，即使不是焦虑，只是些许担忧、顾虑或怀疑也没关系。

It's okay to have a little, yeah, it's okay to have a little bit of something, even if it's not anxiety, just a little concern or worry or doubt.

有这些情绪是可以的。

It's okay to have that.

这未必是坏事，但我觉得可以找到一些方法来应对这种不适感。

It's not necessarily a bad thing, but I think, you know, you can figure out some ways to manage that discomfort.

如果你实在做不到，这可能表明你暂时不需要参加，因为你还没有准备好应对那个环境的工具？

And if you can, I think that's the indication that maybe you don't need to go because you don't have any tools to be in the space?

弄清楚你自己的承受阈值是多少。

Figure out what your own threshold is.

事先进行自我反省。

Do the introspection before.

看看你能承受多少。

See what you can tolerate.

因为如果你能承受，就能向自己证明我可以度过这些艰难时刻，并在此基础上继续进步。

Because if you can tolerate it, you can prove to yourself I can get through these hard things, and you can continue to build on that.

好的。

Alright.

我们来看下一个问题。

Let's go to our next one.

让我们听听听众斯蒂芬妮的这个问题。

Let's hear this question from a listener named Stephanie.

今年，我和丈夫将在家过感恩节，和我的一些家人朋友聚会。

This year, my husband and I will be staying home for Thanksgiving and hanging out with some of my family and friends.

这与我们往常的做法不同。

And that's different than what we usually do.

在我们近十年的关系中，大部分时间我们都会去佛罗里达探望他退休的父母。

For the better part of our nearly decade long relationship, we have gone to Florida to visit his parents who retired there.

而就在今年九月，他在一周内接连失去了双亲，这非常不幸。

And this past September, he tragically lost both of them within a week.

他母亲的离世虽在预料之中，但时间点仍令人意外。

His mom was kind of expected, but still surprising with the timeline.

她患有癌症，而他父亲的去世则完全出乎意料。

She had cancer, and his dad was completely unexpected and surprising.

他在处理这份悲痛方面做得很好，但我预感感恩节会很难熬，我想陪在他身边支持他。

He's doing a great job managing and dealing with that grief and pain, But I'm anticipating Thanksgiving is going to be hard, and I wanna be there to support him.

所以我的问题是，在这个曾经与他父母共度、并以为未来多年都会如此的传统节日里，我该如何支持他？

So, yeah, my question is just how how can I support him through a holiday that used to be one we spent with his parents and thought was when we would spend with them for many years to come?

我们该如何适应这个不再与他们共度节日的新现实？

And how can we adjust to this new reality of not doing that anymore?

对于这位听众的处境，你会说些什么？

What would you say to this listener about this situation?

实际上我们最近收到了好几条关于首次在失去亲人后度过节日的语音留言。

We actually got several voicemails about this recently losing someone and celebrating the holidays for the first time without them.

如果我们正在支持一个经历悲痛的人，可以说些这样的话会很有帮助：我能想象失去父母后，感恩节对你来说会很艰难。

If we are supporting someone who's going through grief, it can be really helpful to say something like, I can imagine that Thanksgiving is going to be tough for you with the loss of your parents.

我能做些什么来支持你度过这段时间？

What can I do to support you through that?

并允许他们告诉你他们需要什么。

And allowing them to tell you what they need.

节日对于正在经历悲痛的人来说是艰难的。

Holidays are tough for folks who are grieving.

他们不会忘记这件事。

They don't forget about it.

如果说有什么不同的话，那就是悲痛反而被放大了。

If anything, the grief is intensified.

因此，对我们来说，不要试图忽视这件事会很有帮助，因为有时人们会说，'感恩节那天我要尽量不去想这件事'。

And so, it can be really helpful for us to not try to ignore it because sometimes people will say, I'm gonna try not to think about it on Thanksgiving.

我要试着分散自己的注意力。

I'm gonna try to distract myself.

但实际上，我们是否能留出一些时刻来谈论这位今年已不在人世的亲人？

When in actuality, is there some moment we can have to talk about this loved one who is no longer here this year?

也许在晚餐前或晚餐后，我们为泪水留出空间。

Maybe before dinner or after dinner, you know, we make space for the tears.

我们为悼念祖父留出空间。

We make space to grieve grandpa.

我们会说，'今年我们失去了一位传奇人物'。

We say, you know, this year we lost a legend.

我们都很悲伤。

And we are all sad.

我们深深地想念他。

We deeply miss him.

所以我想给大家一个机会，如果愿意的话，可以简短地说几句关于爷爷的话。

And so I want to give everybody an opportunity to talk about, you know, just very briefly, if they want to, to say a few words about grandpa.

我非常喜欢这个主意，就是指定一个神圣的时间来共同哀悼，而不是试图掩盖它，或者可能过度谈论，因为我觉得可能会过度沉溺于谈论逝者，以至于无法活在当下。

I really love that idea, like designating a time that's sacred and connected to sort of grieve together, right, as opposed to trying to sweep it under the rug or or maybe even talking about it too much because I think you can sort of over index, right, on speaking about someone perhaps who's lost to the point where you're not in the moment anymore.

我喜欢指定一个时间的想法。

I like that idea of designating some time.

是的。

Yeah.

或者有没有办法在那一天纪念这个人？

Or is there a way to honor this person on that day?

我有我祖母的一个烤盘。

I have one of my grandmother's baking dishes.

对吧？

Right?

所以我喜欢用它来烤蛋糕，或者就把它摆出来，明白吗？

And so I love to, you know, make a cake in it or even just have it out, right?

就像一种体验，哇，我爱我的祖母，我

Like as an experience of, wow, I love my grandmother, I

想念她。

miss her.

你说的这些真有意思。

It's so interesting what you're saying.

这让我感触很深。

It's just striking me.

我妈妈每年圣诞节都会穿一件我外婆（她妈妈）的圣诞熊运动衫，她一直这么做。

My mom, every Christmas wears this like Christmas bear sweatshirt that was my grandma's, her mom's, and does do that.

她会对每个人说圣诞快乐之类的。

She'll say to everyone, you know, Merry Christmas, whatever.

就像，我现在很想念我妈妈。

Like, I am missing my mom right now.

我真的很感激这一点，因为这让我们知道她的感受，也邀请我们陪伴她，一起分享关于我外婆的回忆。

And it's it's I really appreciate it because it lets us know where she's at, and it invites us to sort of be with her and share memories of my grandma.

所以她正在独自做这些事情，你知道的。

So she's doing these things, you know, herself.

我想接着你最开始说的那个话题问一下，就是去问这个人：'我能做些什么来支持你？'

I guess a follow-up to the first thing you said, which is ask this person, what can I do to support you?

如果对方说：'我不知道...'

What if someone was like, I don't I don't know.

'我不知道你能做什么。'

I don't know what you can do.

在这种情况下你会怎么回应？

How would you respond in in that situation?

我认为当人们不知道自己需要什么支持时，我们必须发挥创意。

I think we have to get creative when people don't know what they need to be supported.

具体可以是——如果你看到他们发呆，就去给他们一个拥抱，或者只是握握他们的手、拍拍他们的背，主动关心并询问：'你现在感觉怎么样？'

So that could look like if you see them like staring off, going to give them that hug or just squeezing their hand, rubbing their back, you know, checking in on them and saying, you know, how are you feeling?

有什么想聊聊的吗？

Anything you want to talk about?

你现在还好吗？

Are you okay right now?

我正在这么做。

I'm doing that.

或者甚至可以说，我知道你失去了父母，我们有什么方式可以纪念他们吗？

Or even saying, you know, I know that, you lost your parents, is there anything we could do to honor them?

也许你可以做你妈妈的土豆泥食谱。

Maybe you make your mom's mashed potato recipe.

我觉得你可以非常有创意地将他们融入这个新的经历中。

You know, I think you could get really creative with how you incorporate them into this new experience.

也许你可以点那家承办他们后事的餐厅的某道菜。

Maybe you, you know, get a dish from the restaurant that catered their stuff.

说实话，我也不确定具体该怎么做。

You know, I don't I don't know what that looks like.

是的，我们正在为那些人考虑。

Yeah, I think we're thinking about those folks.

而我们能做的最糟糕的事之一，就是试图假装没有人为此感到难过。

And one of the worst things we could do is is try to pretend that that nobody's sad about this thing.

是的，我们不想让这件事冲淡节日的氛围。

And yeah, we don't want it to overshadow the day.

所以或许我们可以尝试一些新事物。

So maybe we do try some new things.

我们必须融入一些新的传统。

We have to incorporate some new traditions.

思考这些新事物可能的样子，或许能成为一个小小的快乐源泉。

And thinking about what those things could look like could create a little source of joy.

比如我们可以做些什么新鲜事呢？

Like what's this new thing we can do?

你知道，往年我们可能会看橄榄球比赛，但今年我们能打扮成狂热球迷吗？

You know, in previous years, maybe we watched a football game, but can we dress up as extreme fans?

我真的很喜欢这个主意。

I really like that.

这真的很暖心。

That is really sweet.

就像把欢乐重新注入这一天。

Like inject the joy back into the day too.

尝试些新花样。

Try something new.

我特别喜欢装扮成狂热粉丝这个主意。

I really like dress up as extreme fans.

是啊。

Yeah.

比如说，在肚皮上涂彩绘，你知道的，各种花样都来点儿。

I mean, like, paint your belly and, you know, like, do all the things.

那太

That's so

贴心了。

sweet.

一些有趣的事情。

Something fun.

但这两者可以同时存在。

But both things can exist at the same time.

你可以同时拥有快乐与悲伤。

You can hold joy and grief.

对我们中的一些人来说，如果我正在悲伤，那会掩盖一切。

And so for some of us, it's like, if I'm grieving, that overshadows anything.

我感受不到其他任何情绪。

I can't feel anything else.

如果我感受到其他情绪，那会很糟糕。

I'd be terrible if I felt anything else.

我不相信我们逝去的亲人希望我们因为他们不在了而痛苦。

I don't believe our loved ones want us to suffer because they're no longer here.

所以如果在这个没有他们陪伴的艰难节日里，有机会让我们计划些值得期待的事情，请一定要去做。

So if there's an opportunity for us to plan something to look forward to on this holiday that's gonna be really hard without them, please do it.

我真的很喜欢画肚子的这个主意。

I really like that idea of painting a belly.

我是说，我觉得这是第一次

Mean, I I think that's the first

在节目中被推荐

time that's been recommended on

我很高兴听到这个。

the show, and I am happy for it.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

内德拉，我们还有最后一个问题要问你。

Nedra, we only have one more question for you.

这个问题来自一位名叫莱拉的听众。

This one comes from a listener named Leila.

我家有个感恩节传统，就是在吃饭前围坐在桌旁，轮流讲述我们感恩的事情。

So my family has a tradition at Thanksgiving where we sit around and go around the table before we eat, and we talk about what we are thankful for.

在我第一次带着新婚丈夫回家过年的餐桌上，他突然深情告白，说他多么感激我——当时我正怀着我们通过试管婴儿技术辛苦得来的孩子。

And one of the first years that I ever got to go home with my new husband and was sitting around the table, he broke into this very beautiful monologue about how he was so thankful for me because I was pregnant with our child who we had to work very hard to bring into this world through IVF.

在场的人都哭了，因为他不断说着多么感激我、我有多么美好、多么感恩我们的家庭、多么期待这个宝宝和这段新生活。

People were crying because he's basically saying how he's so thankful for me and how I'm so wonderful and he's so thankful for our family and he's so thankful for this baby and this life.

所有人都被深深打动，那场动人的演讲让每个人至今记忆犹新。

And everybody's really emotional and it just really was such a beautiful speech that everybody remembered.

后来我确实生下了孩子，却因心力衰竭住院治疗，出院带着新生儿回家时，发现他早已出轨。

You know, I did end up having my child and I ended up getting hospitalized after in heart failure and came home with a newborn basically to realize that I had been cheated on.

但我还是选择留在他身边。

And I did stay with him.

如今三年半过去了，我依然和他在一起。

And it's been three and a half years now and I've still been with him.

现在我对参加感恩节告白这个活动特别敏感，因为当初那些话全是谎言。

And the thing is, I feel kind of sensitive about doing or participating in that activity now because what was said was such a lie, you know.

我实在无法理解，一个人怎么可能对伴侣怀有那样的感情，能做出让所有人刻骨铭心的深情演讲，却同时背叛对方。

I don't see how you could feel those things for your partner and be so emotional and have a speech that everybody has etched into their mind.

然后每年还要被要求参与这种仪式。

And then be asked to participate in this kind of ritual every year.

所以我对这件事有点敏感。

So I'm kind of sensitive about it.

我不想参与其中。

I don't want to participate in it.

我也不太想让他参与，尽管他可能心怀感激。

And I don't really want him to participate in it even though he may be thankful.

也许他是在感激能有第二次机会。

Maybe he's thankful for a second chance.

你知道，最终我还是接受了他回来，但我不确定。

You know, ultimately, have accepted him back, but I don't know.

就是有件事让我很在意。

There's just something I'm sensitive about.

我不想再参与那种活动了。

I don't want to participate in that anymore.

这里面有很多内容。

There's a lot there.

你对此有什么反应？

What's your reaction to that?

这让我想到要避开我们的触发点。

It makes me think of avoiding our triggers.

我曾遭遇过车祸，当一个人经历创伤性事件时，第一反应就是逃避。

I've had car accidents and the first thing that happens when a person has like a traumatic experience is avoidance.

比如，我怎样才能再也不开车？

Like, how do I never drive a car again?

或者我怎样才能再也不经过这个地方？

Or how do I never drive past this place?

或者我怎样才能，所有这些事情，都是为了避开这种不适感。

Or how do I never like, all of these things to avoid this discomfort.

我记得有一次出了车祸，当时就想，我再也不开车了。

And I remember having a car accident once and being like, I'm never driving again.

这种状态持续了大约四天。

And it lasted about four days.

然后我不得不去商店。

And then I had to go to the store.

对吧？

Right?

就像，我必须再次面对这件事。

It was like, I have to do this thing again.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为有时候我们试图逃避的是那段记忆，对吧？

I think sometimes what we're trying to avoid is that memory, right?

比如那辆车、那次演讲、事故发生的那个地点，无论是什么，就像在说'天啊，只要我能避开这个，就能完全忘记那段可怕的经历'。

Like the car, the speech, the, you know, the point of the accident, whatever it is, it's like, oh my gosh, if I can avoid this thing, I will just feel better about this completely horrible experience that I had.

而我认为真正的治愈是当我们能够面对那件事，并注意到年复一年，我感觉好多了。

And I think the real healing is once we can do the thing, and notice that year after year, I feel better.

我感到更加自在了。

I feel more at ease.

哇，现在我可以上车了，甚至都不会想起那起旧事故。

Wow, now I can get in the car and I don't even think about that old accident.

现在我能听到他谈论感恩，并且再次相信这些话了。

Now I can hear him speak about gratitude and I believe it again.

而不是，哦不，他再也不能那样做了，因为我会被触发，永远不想回忆那年他做的事。

Versus, Oh, no, he can't ever do that again because I'm triggered and I never want to think about what he did that year.

我认为这是一个练习面对那种不适的机会，尤其是因为她选择维持这段婚姻。

I think this is an opportunity to practice sitting in that discomfort, particularly because she chose to stay in the marriage.

这是宽恕的一部分。

This is a part of the forgiveness.

哇。

Wow.

所以，如果你正在宽恕这个行为，这就是其中的一部分。

So, if you're forgiving the act, this is a part of that.

所以如果你能做到，年复一年——我不是说今年——你会对此感觉好起来的，对吧？

So if you can, year after year, I'm not saying this year, you're going to feel too good about it, right?

但如果你年复一年地让他参与进来，你会注意到某一年，请给我写封信谈谈这个。

But if you get year after year, allow him to participate, You will notice one year, please write me a letter about this.

你会注意到某一年，我甚至都没想起那件事。

You will notice one year, I didn't even think about that.

这就是我们真正实践时的运作方式。

That's how it works when we actually practice.

当我们真正面对问题而不是逃避时。

When we actually get into the stuff instead of avoiding it.

这太有意思了。

That is so interesting.

我原以为你会完全相反地回应，因为这位听众说'不想这么做'。

And I so thought you would respond totally in the opposite way because this listener is saying, don't wanna do this.

我还以为你会说，如果你不想做，那就给自己一些空间。

And I, you know, I assumed that you'd say, well, if you don't wanna do it, then, you know, give yourself some space.

但我很喜欢你刚才说的那些话。

But I like what I'm hearing you saying.

这就像是，参与这个仪式可能会非常有成效，既能表达你自己的感激之情，又能见证你丈夫的感恩之心——就像我们刚才谈到的，既要面对痛苦，也要心怀感激。

It's like, it could be really productive to go into this ritual, to share your own gratitude, and to witness, you know, your husband also being grateful to hold both as we were just talking about the sort of pain, but also the gratitude.

只有这样做，你才能真正原谅。

And only in doing that will you be able to truly forgive.

但我没想到你会这么说。

But I was not expecting you to say that.

我真的很欣赏这个观点。

I really I appreciate that take.

是啊。

Yeah.

也许她今年的感恩之处在于：我感激自己能坚持参加完这个感恩圈。

Maybe her gratitude this year is, I am grateful for being able to sit through this gratitude circle.

哇，确实。

Wow, yeah.

这就是感恩。

That's the gratitude.

我坚持下来了。

I sat through it.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

这...这...这是我没想过自己能完成的事。

That's, that's, that's something I didn't think I would be able to do.

我很感激自己有力量听完每个人的发言，感觉就像——哦，他来了。

I'm grateful I had the strength to listen to everybody talk and feel like, oh, he's coming.

哦，他马上就要

Oh, he's about to

说

say

一些话。

something.

我有力量忍受自己的不适。

I had the strength to tolerate my own discomfort.

那可能是个多么神奇的时刻。

What a magical moment that could be.

是啊。

Yeah.

我想知道你是否会鼓励莱拉和她丈夫在进入这个感恩节场合前进行一次谈话。

I wonder if there's a conversation too that you'd encourage Leila and her husband to have before they enter this Thanksgiving space.

这样他们也能某种程度上共同面对。

So they can also sort of be in this together.

她有机会只对他一个人说些什么，而不是在家人面前。

She has the opportunity to say something just to him, not in front of the family.

是啊。

Yeah.

你知道吗，我刚才正在想这件事。

You know, I was thinking about that.

很高兴你问起这个。

I'm so happy you asked.

我在想，虽然你不能告诉一个人应该对什么心存感激。

And I wonder if I mean, you can't tell a person what to be grateful for.

但我在想这是否是个机会说：请把我排除在你的感恩之外。

But I wonder if this is an opportunity to say, leave me out of your gratitude.

我甚至不想再出现在你的感恩名单里。

I don't even wanna be included in your gratitudes anymore.

是啊。

Yeah.

直到我能学会相信你的承诺，并且...你知道的，为你的新计划心存感激。

Until I can learn to trust your word, and, you know, be grateful for your new plan.

是啊。

Yeah.

要感恩，比如你的工作。

Be grateful for, you know, your job.

要感恩邻居帮你耙树叶。

Be grateful that our neighbor helps you rake the leaves.

但别把我算进你的感恩名单里，因为我会挑起眉毛表示怀疑。

But do not include me in your gratitudes because my eyebrows will raise.

所以，

So,

你知道吗，我真希望我们还有一百万个问题要讨论，因为我从中看到了——我自己、我的经历、我所爱之人经历的影子。

you know, I wish we had a million more questions because I am seeing, you know, shades of of myself, my own experiences, people I love's experiences.

尽管这些例子非常具体，但我认为它们能引起更广泛的共鸣，我非常感谢你给出的建议。

Like, even though, again, these examples are so specific, I think there are a lot of more widespread resonances, and I really appreciate your tips.

我觉得这些建议真的会引起共鸣。

I think they will really resonate.

所以非常感谢你分享这些。

So thank you for those.

总结一下，如果要为人们在感恩节前准备一个情感工具包，这个工具包里应该包含些什么？

To sort of wrap us, if you were to assemble a kind of emotional toolkit for people ahead of, you know, Thanksgiving, what would be in that toolkit?

第一，规划你的节日体验，提前计划好这些对话，计划好你想实践和改变的事情。

One, plan your holiday experience, plan these conversations, plan the things that you want to practice and do differently before the big day.

第二，与自己达成协议，不要以与去年相同的方式度过这个节日。

Two, make an agreement with yourself to not go into this holiday the same way that you went into the last one.

然后

And

第三，你可以精心设计自己的节日体验。

three, you get to curate your holiday experience.

如果你是主人，今年可以尝试不同的做法。

If you're the host, you get to do things differently this year.

如果你去别人家做客，可以选择与往年不同的时间离开。

If you're going to someone's home, you have the opportunity to leave at a different time than you have in previous years.

也许你可以选择在感恩节期间去度假。

Maybe you go on vacation for Thanksgiving.

想想看。

Think about that.

其实，我有个朋友

Actually, I have a friend

她就是直接去旅行。

who just goes on a trip.

她说，你知道的，酒店很便宜之类的。

She's like, the the, you know, the hotels are cheap, whatever.

她压根不参与这些。

She's like not doing it at all.

这很酷。

It's cool.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以你可以自主设计这次体验的样子。

So you get to curate what this experience looks like.

因此，这就是这一切中的礼物，你今年有机会做些不同的事情。

And so that's the gift in all of this, that you get the opportunity to do something different this year.

这不是去年了。

It's not last year.

所以，我认为你必须在这段经历中掌握自己的主动权，而不是把它交给别人，然后说，天哪，他们今年需要做些不同的事情。

And so, you know, I think you have to own your power in this experience and not give it over to other people and say like, Oh my gosh, they need to do something differently this year.

他们可能没在听这个播客，可能没在做心理咨询，甚至对我们讨论的任何事情都不感兴趣。

They may not be listening to this podcast, they may not be in therapy, they may not even be open to any of these things that we talked about.

因此，我们必须把假期掌握在自己手中。

And so we have to take our holidays into our own hands.

我们必须创造我们想要拥有的体验，并且必须了解自己。

And we have to create the experience that we want to have and we have to know thyself.

有时在这个过程中，我们必须选择不参与其中，或以不同的方式参与。

And sometimes in that, we have to choose to not be a part of it or to be a part of it differently.

你知道，我在想我们谈话开始时讨论过的，我们陷入的家庭模式。

You know, I'm thinking too at the beginning of our conversation, we talked about, you know, the patterns we fall into with our families.

我在想听众们，当然也包括我自己，可能正试图打破那些模式，甚至可能是第一次尝试。

And I'm thinking of listeners, including certainly myself, who might be trying to break out of those patterns, perhaps even for the first time.

我想知道，对于那些刚刚迈出第一步的人来说，你会说些什么，那第一步让这个感恩节变得有点不同。

I wonder what you'd say to people who are taking just that first step, that first step to make this Thanksgiving a little different.

你对他们有什么充满希望、勇气或鼓舞人心的话要说吗？

What are some words of of hope or bravery or inspiration you have for them?

我喜欢肯定语。

I love affirmations.

我喜欢把自言自语当作激励自己的工具。

I love talking to yourself as a tool to motivate yourself.

我知道这听起来很老套，但是——我就是喜欢。

I know it sounds super cheesy, but- I love it.

走进浴室，给自己打打气。

Go in the bathroom, give yourself a pep talk.

也许你可以写下你打算做的事情，就像快速的小片段，也许是一个小清单，比如，当某某叔叔提起这件事时，就换个话题。

Maybe you write down the things you say you're going to do, just like in quick little bites, maybe like a little list, like, change the topic when Uncle so and so brings up this thing.

早晨去散个步，就像制定计划并坚持执行一样。

Go for a walk in the morning, like having a plan and sticking to it.

你需要一个责任伙伴，可能是现场的另一位家庭成员，也可能是远方的人，你需要发短信告诉他们‘我做到了’。

You need an accountability partner, maybe that's another family member who's there or maybe it's somebody who's away and you need to text and be like, I did it.

对。

Yeah.

我做到了。

I did it.

没错，我说过要转移话题，或者‘嘿，我说过今天要去散步，我真的做到了’。

Yes, I I said I would change the topic or, Hey, I said I would go for a walk today and I actually did it.

找个支持你做出这些改变的人。

Find someone to support you in making these changes.

即使只是列个小清单，记录自己做得好的事情，然后分享给我的治疗师。

Even if, you know, it's like, Hey, I'm gonna make a little list of all the things I did well to share with my therapist.

我很喜欢听这些。

I love to hear those.

对吧？

Right?

就像是，嘿，我给你准备了一个小清单。

It's like it's like, Hey, I have a little checklist for you.

我做了这个，做了那个，这个做了两次，你知道的，就是

I did this, I did that, I did this, and two times, you know, it's

就像有两次，我说我要去喝一杯，因为我已经聊够了。

like Two times, I said, I'm gonna get a drink because I'm done with this conversation.

我喜欢这个。

I love that.

是的。

Yes.

庆祝那些进展顺利的事情，对。

Celebrating the things that went well, the Yeah.

庆祝你做出改变的方式。

Celebrating the ways that you made a change.

我真的很喜欢这个。

I really like that.

内德拉，我很感谢这次对话。

Nedra, I'm thankful for this conversation.

感谢你参加节目。

Thank you for coming on the show.

不客气。

You're welcome.

谢谢邀请我。

Thanks for having me.

《现代爱情》团队成员包括艾米·珀尔、克里斯蒂娜·约瑟夫、戴维斯·兰德、艾丽莎·古铁雷斯、艾米丽·朗、珍·波扬特、林恩·利维、里瓦·戈德堡和莎拉·柯蒂斯。

The Modern Love team is Amy Pearl, Christina Joseph, Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Emily Lang, Jen Poyant, Lynn Levy, Riva Goldberg, and Sarah Curtis.

本期节目由戴维斯·兰德制作。

This episode was produced by Davis Land.

由林恩·利维和珍·波扬特编辑。

It was edited by Lynn Levy and Jen Poyant.

我们的混音工程师是阿菲姆·夏皮罗，录音室支持由艾萨克·琼斯和麦迪·马西洛提供。

Our mix engineer was Afim Shapiro, and we had studio support from Isaac Jones and Maddie Masiello.

特别感谢詹西·邓恩。

Special thanks to Jancie Dunn.

本集原创音乐由艾丽西亚·贝托普、罗温·内米斯托和丹·鲍威尔创作。

Original music in this episode by Alicia Beitoupe, Rowan Nemistow, and Dan Powell.

丹还创作了我们的主题音乐。

Dan also composed our theme music.

《现代爱情》专栏由丹尼尔·琼斯编辑。

The modern love column is edited by Daniel Jones.

米娅·李是现代爱情项目的编辑。

Mia Lee is the editor of modern love projects.

如果您想向《纽约时报》提交散文或微型爱情故事，我们的节目说明中始终附有投稿指南。

If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've always got those instructions in our show notes.

我是安娜·马丁。

I'm Anna Martin.

感谢收听，感恩节快乐。

Thanks for listening, and happy Thanksgiving.