寡妇的性爱指南

我的头下面变得温暖起来。

And it became warm under my head.

我想，这是爱的力量吗？

And I thought, is this the power of love?

它能让一具尸体变得温暖？

That it can warm a dead body?

我至今仍无法解释，如果有人能解释，我也不想听。

I still can't explain it and if anyone can I don't wanna hear it?

我要我的版本。

I want my version.

终于，到了该把他带走的时候了。

And and then finally it was time to take him away.

随后，我陷入了深深的、彻底的抑郁，几乎无法正常生活。

And then I went into an absolute profound profound depression where I could barely function.

我整天哭泣，但每次在要去跳广场舞前一小时，我会振作起来，去教课，因为那里有他。

I would cry all day and and then pick myself together an hour before I had to go to line dancing and go teach the class because that's where he was.

他在舞池里。

He was on dance floor.

他有点漂浮在上方，但我能看见他，无论我转向哪个方向，他都在我面前。

He was kind of floating above it a little, but I could see him and no matter what direction I turned, there he was in front of me.

所以我需要这个。

So I needed that.

然后之后，我甚至完全失去了时间感，但我处于一种极度的状态，终于有一天，我意识到自己无法在上课前停止哭泣。

And then after I I don't even I totally lost track of time here but I was I was just in drastic state and I finally realized one day I could not stop crying in time to teach the class.

于是我联系了我的HMO，说：我停不下来地哭。

And I called my HMO and I said I can't stop crying.

他们问：你有自杀倾向吗？

And they said, are you suicidal?

我说：哦，没有，没有。

And I said, oh no, no.

你会伤害自己吗？

Will you hurt yourself?

不，不。

No, no.

他们很快给我安排了一位精神科医生，他开了一种抗抑郁药。

And they gave me an appointment with a psychiatrist quickly who prescribed an antidepressant.

我现在记不清是哪种药了，一切都变得模糊不清。

I can't remember now which one, everything is foggy.

但那非常有帮助。

But that was very helpful.

我仍然几乎无法完成基本的日常事务。

I still could barely do basic functions.

能听到这些，能以某种方式分享你的经历，这完全是一种荣幸，尽管这确实令人痛心，但我很感激你让我走进你的世界。

It is totally a privilege to to hear about that and to in some way just sharing your experience of that even though it is I mean, it's devastating, but I appreciate you letting me in.

我真的

I really

我很感激这个机会，因为即使你现在看到我在哭，也很重要，让其他人明白：哦，我是正常的。

grateful for the opportunity because even though you see I'm crying, it's it's important for other people to realize, oh, I am normal.

这种情况发生了，你看她现在这样，显然我也还有希望。

This this happens and look, she's look at her now, so obviously there's hope for me too.

你在哀悼的时候，身体有什么感觉？

How did your body feel as you were grieving?

麻木。

Numb.

身体关闭了。

It shut down.

你知道，我是一名性教育者，清楚性行为或高潮能带来多大的释放。

You know, I was aware I'm a sex educator and know this stuff of how much of a release sex can be or an orgasm can be.

我不需要另一个人来实现这一点。

I didn't need another person for that.

我明白性是减压的方式，能让人安定下来，帮助入睡，但我就是觉得，不行。

I I was aware of how it's a stress reliever, how it will kinda ground you, how it'll help you sleep, and and I just because I thought, no.

这对我没用。

It wouldn't work.

这种麻木感，后来开始消退了吗？

That numbness, did it start to fade?

如果是的话，是什么时候、如何发生的？

And if so, when and how did that happen?

直到我遇到第三位心理咨询师，她是一位了不起的年长女性，我和她在一起感到非常自在，麻木感才开始消退。

It didn't start to fade until my third grief counselor, who was a remarkable older woman who I just felt so comfortable with.

我告诉她：我知道我应该把自慰重新带回我的生活中。

I said to her, I know I should bring back solo sex into my life here.

我知道这会对我有帮助。

I know it would help me.

但我就是觉得……

But I You

自从那以后，你一直都没有自慰或自我愉悦过吗？

hadn't been you hadn't been masturbating or self pleasuring at all since?

我没有。

I had not.

我告诉她，我真的感觉麻木了。

And I and I and I told her, I just I feel so numb.

我不确定这会不会有用。

I don't even know if it would work.

她说，如果你有振动器，就会有效。

And she said, if you have a vibrator, it'll work.

我当时想，我经常对别人说这句话。

And and I thought, I tell people that all the time.

我正想说，那位哀伤咨询师是对那位

I was just gonna say, the grief counselor says that to the

性教育者说的吗？

sex the sex educator?

有意思。

Interesting.

那个。

That.

是的

Yeah.

你好，琼。

Hello, Joan.

是的

Yeah.

敞开心扉，倾听你内心已知的真理。

Open your ears to what you know.

她说得对。

And she was right.

那真的有效。

That did work.

然后我开始建立规律的练习，重新恢复了规律的高潮体验以及随之而来的一切。

And then I started a regular practice and got myself back into having regular orgasms and all that that brings.

这让我哭了，因为我忍不住想象，那个不在场的罗伯特，明明在场却又不在场。

It made me cry because I couldn't help but picture it was Robert who wasn't there who was there but wasn't there.

你能告诉我吗？这对我来说感觉极其强烈。

Can you tell me I mean, that that feels extremely intense to me.

就像重新唤醒你的身体和欲望，但与此同时，在这种重新唤醒的过程中，你离悲伤也更近了。

Like reigniting your body and your desire, but at the same time in that, you know, reigniting, getting so much closer to grief.

这种感觉是你和罗伯特在一起时感受到的。

This is a feeling you felt with with Robert.

告诉我吧，说说那段经历。

Just tell me about tell me about that experience.

当我自慰时，在我的幻想中，我只能清空思绪，因为我们的大脑总是干扰一切，包括性行为。

Well, in my fantasies when I was pleasuring myself, I could only clear my mind and because our minds are always interfering with everything including sex.

而让我大脑彻底空白、能够接纳的唯一方式，就是想象正在为我抚慰的是罗伯特。

And and the only way I could just make my mind go vacant and receive is if I imagined it was Robert pleasuring me.

这让我哭了，但我还是继续这样下去。

And that made me cry, but I also would just keep going with that.

他就在这里。

Here he is.

他就在这里。

Here he is.

你可以再次享受他。

You can enjoy him again.

你可以随时享受他。

You can enjoy him anytime.

是的，这不一样。

Yes, it's different.

对。

Yes.

哦，好吧。

Oh, okay.

当然，你大喊着：‘求你了，罗伯特，别再死了’，我确实曾多次大声这样喊过。

Of course, you're screaming, please Robert, don't be dead anymore, which I actually screamed aloud over and over again many times.

你不能拥有那样的东西。

You can't have that.

但你能拥有什么？

But what can you have?

当你身处这种境况时，你能做些什么？

While you're here, with this circumstance, what can you do about it?

这就是我想明白的。

And that's what I figured out.

你处于这样一个空间，那里一切都令你痛苦。

You're in this space where, like, everything hurts.

对吧？

Right?

你根本停不下来地哭泣。

Everything you you can't stop crying.

这简直就是无处不在的痛苦。

It's it's just it's like wall to wall pain.

然后要在这样的空间中重新引入愉悦，一定非常复杂。

And then to reintroduce pleasure into that space must be quite complicated.

我在想，你有没有——我不知道。

I wonder, did you I don't I don't know.

这可能是投射，但你有没有因为感受到愉悦而感到内疚？

This might be projection, but, like, did you feel guilty for feeling pleasure?

我的意思是，当你重新开始接触性爱时，涌上心头的情绪是什么？

I mean, what were the emotions that were coming up as you began to as you began to engage with whole sex again?

我感到释然。

I was relieved.

释然。

Relieved.

我感到释然。

I was relieved.

我说，哦，我的身体还没死。

I said, oh, my body isn't dead.

事实上，有一段时间，真正让我重获生机的是——那时我虽然一直使用振动器，但完全不感兴趣让任何人进入我的身体。

And in fact, what really brought me to life at one point, and this was some time in where I had continued to use vibrators, but not the least bit interested in inviting another person into my body.

然后我做了一个梦，梦见自己正和一个我在现实生活中并不认识的男人一起散步。

And then I had this dream that I was walking with a man that I didn't in real life recognize.

他跟在我身后，抱着我，抱着我。

He was walking behind me and hold holding me holding me.

我不知道梦境是如何做到的，但我能感觉到他衣服后面勃起的部位。

I don't know how dreams make it possible, but I could feel his erection through his clothes behind me.

然后我开始感到兴奋。

And I started getting aroused.

接着我醒了过来，坐起身，说：我还活着。

And then I woke up and I sat up and I said, I'm alive.

这个梦对你来说意味着什么？

What did this dream what did it signal to you?

它代表了什么？

What did it mean?

它意味着我可以被另一个人激起欲望，当我准备好的时候，我渴望这种感觉发生。

That I can be aroused by another person, that I want that to happen when I might be ready.

因为他让我产生了欲望。

Because he was arousing me.

那不是我自己主动发生的。

Didn't do it on my own there.

我醒来时真的很有感觉。

And I really was aroused when I woke up.

你的身体已经醒了。

Your body was awake.

你的身体已经醒了。

Your body was awake.

我的身体已经醒了，仿佛我重新连接了一股我之前压抑的生命力。

My body was awake and it was was as if there was a life force that I tapped into that I'd tamped down before.

我曾说：不，我不想听你的。

I'd said, no, I don't wanna hear from you.

我太忙于沉浸在悲痛中了。

I'm too busy being devastated.

别试了。

Don't even try.

我意识到我们内心有一种韧性，终将显现。

And I realized that we have this inner resilience that will emerge.

你知道，这就像一颗种子，被埋在土里，努力挣扎着要破土而出，可你却不断往上面堆土，它就更难钻出来了。

You know, it's like this seed that's been planted in there and it's struggling to make its way out of the dirt and keep piling more dirt on, it's gonna have even more trouble getting through it.

然后终于说，好吧。

And then finally say, okay.

我不再堆土了，就看看如果我盯着这个地方，会发生什么。

I'll stop piling and just see what happens if I watch this spot.

哦，你好。

And oh, hello.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

你知道，自慰是一回事，但准备好与新伴侣发生关系，那种不仅仅是灵魂交融的性行为，完全是另一回事。

You know, masturbation is one thing, but being ready for a new partner having sex that's not just soul sex, having sex with someone else is a totally different thing.

你是怎么开始应对这种情况的？

How did you how did you begin to navigate that?

非常非常缓慢，期间有很多反复和停顿。

Very, very slowly with a lot of starts and stops.

在这个持续了多年的进程中，我意识到，重新开始性生活是有时间线的。

What I realized along this process which took years, is that there is a timeline for getting back into sex.

但没人知道这条时间线具体是什么，而且每个人都不一样。

But no one knows what it is and it's different for everyone.

这正是我在《哀悼后的性》以及其他场合中主要传授的内容。

And this is one of the main things I teach in Sex After Grief and and otherwise.

别让任何人告诉你，你现在应该开始约会了。

That don't let anyone tell you you should be dating by now.

别让任何人告诉你，现在约会还太早。

Don't let anyone tell you it's too soon to date.

我的意思是，我们总会听到这些糟糕的信息，再次把我们压垮。

I mean, we get all these horrible messages that clamp us down again.

只有你自己知道你什么时候做好了准备。

Only you can tell when you're ready.

当你觉得自己准备好了，也许你确实准备好了，也许还没有。

And when you think you're ready, maybe you are and maybe you're not.

所以当你觉得自己准备好了，先尝试一些试探性的举动，然后与自己内心沟通一下。

So when you think you're ready, try something tentative and check-in with yourself.

在这个过程中，我意识到，这并不是从完全无性生活直接跳到一切都可以。

What I realized along this is that it isn't just going from no sex to everything goes.

而是一步一步来的。

It's step by step.

我不想要新的伴侣。

I didn't want a new partner.

我对此非常坚定。

I was firm on that.

这是不可能的，因为罗伯特是我的挚爱。

There's no way because Robert was my great love.

没有什么能超越他，其他一切都只能和他比较。

Nothing can surpass that, everything else would just be compared to him.

结果我发现，我并没有对自己坦诚，但我自己并不知道。

It turned out that I wasn't telling the truth to myself, but I didn't know that.

但那是下一个故事了。

But that's the next story.

但首先，我开始尝试一些事情。

But first and so I try things.

我试着和别人约第一次会。

I try just having first dates with people.

不，没什么感觉。

Nah, nothing there.

我说，也许我该直接选择丧偶的人，那样我会遇到真正理解我的人。

I said, maybe I better just choose widowers because then I will get someone who really understands.

结果证明，这确实是正确的。

And that turned out to be true.

然而，成为寡妇是我们唯一共同的点，我遇到的那些人。

However, being widowed was the only thing we had in common, the people I met.

所以，你知道，如果不是因为这一点，我对这个人根本不会感兴趣。

And and so that, well you know, I'm I wouldn't be interested in this person had we not had this in common.

所以，好吧，我们可以排除这一点。

So alright, we can rule that out.

然后我尝试和另一位老朋友发生关系。

And then I tried having sex with another old friend.

在我放纵的那段时期，我和他一直保持着稳定的关系，后来他搬走了，而他即将因为一个活动回到我附近，他问我是否想见面？

He had during my wild time, I had had a regular ongoing relationship with him and then he had moved away and he was gonna be back close to me for an event and did I wanna meet?

我说，这就是我重新开始性生活的途径。

And I said, this is the way I'm gonna get back into sex.

这会奏效的。

This will work.

于是我去酒店赴约，我们聊了很多。

And so I showed up at the hotel and we talked a lot.

我们上了床，他开始轻轻抚摸我，没有急着做任何事，而我却僵住了。

And we got into bed and he started gently caressing me, not rushing anything, and I just froze.

我僵住了。

I froze.

哦。

Oh.

这不是罗伯特的身体。

This is not Robert's body.

这不是罗伯特的手。

This is not Robert's hands.

我……我抱歉，我做不到。

I I can't I told him I I'm sorry.

我……我没办法继续下去。

I I can't I can't go through with it.

我真的做不到。

I I just can't do it.

我为此做好了准备。

I had prepared for this.

我以为我可以的。

I thought I could.

我精心挑选了内衣。

I chose my underwear with care.

但我就是无法继续下去。

And I just can't go through with it.

他说了最恰当的话，他说：告诉我关于罗伯特的事。

And he said the best thing he could have, he said, tell me about Robert.

哇。

Wow.

这确实，我的意思是，我从这件事中看出了一些东西。

It is I mean, it's there's a couple of things I'm I'm gleaning from this.

其中之一是，你知道，你在谈论这些断断续续的情况。

And one is, you know, you're talking about these fits and starts.

你是在给自己许可，去尝试一些事情，同时也给自己许可，在不合适的时候说：这不适合我。

You were sort of giving yourself permission to try something and giving yourself permission to say, this is not going to work for me when it wasn't.

所以你就像在顺应自己的悲痛浪潮，而当然，悲痛并不是线性的。

So it was like kind of riding the wave of your grief, which, of course, is not linear.

我听明白了。

I'm hearing that.

而且，我真的很喜欢这位伴侣的回应，而不是说‘好吧，祝你有美好的一天’之类的套话。

Then also, I I love I really love that response from this from this partner instead of, okay, well, you know, have a good day or whatever.

是的。

Yeah.

告诉我。

Tell me.

像这样，邀请我走进来。

Like, invite me in.

告诉我关于你如此深爱的那个人的事。

Tell me about this person that you love so much.

我的意思是，这让人与人之间产生了联系。

I mean, it makes it connective.

而且，我也想说，这当然把另一个人带入了这个空间。

And also, would say, though, it brings, of course, another person into the space.

我的意思是，这很有趣。

I mean, which is interesting.

这就像是罗伯特在房间里一样，当然不是物理意义上的，但他就在那里。

It's like then Robert is in the room, you know, not physically, of course, but he's there.

你享受他陪伴在身边的感觉吗？

And did you enjoy having him there?

你享受向这个人讲述罗伯特的事吗？

Did you enjoy telling this man about, you know, about Robert?

这正是我需要的。

It was just what I needed.

我意识到，所有这些故事都相当自我沉溺，但在极度悲痛时，尤其是在我们还没找到迈向下一步的方法之初，这正是我们能做的。

And I realized how self indulgent all these stories are, but it's what we can do when we're in in really bad grief, especially in the beginning before we figured out a process for getting to the next step.

你知道，到了这个时候，你正在尝试不同的伴侣。

You know, at this point, you are experimenting with different partners.

你又重新开始自慰了。

You've gotten back into solo pleasuring.

但你根本不是在找另一个伴侣。

But you're so not looking for another partner.

然后呢？

And then?

然后，差不多九年前，有个人在OkCupid上回复了我的个人资料。

And then, almost nine years ago, a person appeared in OkCupid responding to to my profile.

他叫麦克。

His name is Mac.

他就是我如果真在找人时会期待的那种人。

And he was everything I would have been looking for if I'd been looking for someone.

跟我说说。

Tell me.

他聪明、开放、善于沟通、成就斐然，有自己的丰富生活，同时他也是位丧偶者，刚刚在长期照顾患病妻子后失去了她。

He was smart, he was open, he was communicative, he was accomplished, he had his own life that was rich and he also was a widower and he had lost his wife recently after long caregiving while she was ill.

他需要重新学会如何生活。

And he needed to find out how to live again.

他写了一个非常棒的个人资料，是位退休的人类学教授，身体健壮，喜欢徒步。

And he'd written a really good profile, was a retired anthropology professor, He was fit, a hiker.

他具备了所有我想要的特质。

He was all the things.

他不会跳舞，也没有胸毛，但除此之外，他几乎完美。

He wasn't a dancer and he didn't have chest hair but otherwise he was kind of perfect.

他喜欢做饭。

He liked to cook.

哦，他喜欢让我知道。

Oh, he liked I to know.

于是，我们约好在我镇上的一家咖啡馆见面，但到了才发现那里已经关门了。

So, we arranged to meet at a coffee shop in my town and we arrived to find it's closed.

于是我问他：要不要去散个步？

And so I said, well, do you wanna go for a walk?

马路对面就有一条步行道。

There's a walking path just across the street.

他说：好啊，我喜欢散步。

And he said, yeah, I love to walk.

于是我们散步并交谈了整整一个多小时，随着每一次坦诚的分享，我们对彼此的兴趣也越来越浓，发现和对方真诚交谈竟如此轻松。

And so we walked and we talked for well over an hour and getting more and more excited about each other with every revelation, every revelation and how easily it was to talk to each other honestly.

他可以谈论玛乔丽。

He could talk about Marjorie.

我可以谈论罗伯特。

I could talk about Robert.

玛乔丽是他去世的妻子。

Marjorie is his wife who passed.

是的。

Yes.

但我们并不需要一直谈论那些事情。

And yet we didn't have to talk about those things all the time.

我们也可以聊聊别的，比如他认为我的工作非常迷人。

We could also tell you, well, what is your he thought my work was fascinating.

很多男性都因此感到畏惧。

And so many men were intimidated by it.

他们说：‘哦，我都不敢跟你约会。’

They said, oh, I don't dare date you.

是的。

Yeah.

如果我的存在让你感到压力，那倒是个不错的筛选标准。

Well, if I'm gonna intimidate you, it's it's a good screening test.

这没什么。

That's fine.

然后我们回家后，立刻又开始频繁发邮件。

And then we went home and we then started emailing again immediately.

我们只是感到非常惊讶。

We just had this Wow.

我不知道我们来回发了多少封邮件。

I don't know how many emails we exchanged over and over.

在一封邮件里，我说：有没有什么你还没问过但对你来说很重要的问题？

In one email I said, are there any questions you haven't asked that are really important to you?

他说：有。

And he said, yes.

你能想象和我发生性关系吗？

Can you imagine having sex with me?

好吧。

Okay.

我当时想，你遇到对手了。

I'm like, you've met your match.

我回复说：我现在就在想象。

And I replied, I'm imagining it now.

有人把我的工作室暖气调高了吗？

Did someone turn up the heat in my studio?

我的意思是，你简直就是情书女王。

I mean, it's just I mean, you are the queen of sexy emails.

你就是女王。

You are the queen.

别让我发短信。

Don't ask me to text.

我需要我的键盘。

I need my keyboard.

你能跟我讲讲和Mac亲密的过程吗？

Can you tell me about the process of being intimate with Mac?

那是什么感觉？

What was that like?

我的意思是，你们都是丧偶的人。

I mean, you're both widows.

我想象这增添了一层维度。

I imagine that adds a dimension.

跟我说说这个。

Tell me about that.

我们约好了，大概在那封邮件后的两天，在他家见面，我很快就问：我能看看你的卧室吗？

We made a date, I think, two days after that email to meet at his house and pretty quickly I said, can I see your bedroom?

我带了润滑剂，也带了安全套，我已经准备好了。

And I had brought lube, I had brought condoms, I was ready.

他非常渴望，经历了漫长的禁欲之后，身体自然而然地主导了一切，那时我们根本不需要再协商什么。

And he was so eager, so eager after a very long celibacy that it just happened kind of the bodies took over and we didn't really have to negotiate anything at that point.

后来，我们知道，好吧，现在有些事情我想让你了解我的身体是如何运作的，我也想更多地了解你的。

Later, you know, we thought, okay, now there are some things I want you to understand about how my body works and I want to understand more about yours.

于是，我们退后一步，开始探索现在对我们来说最合适的相处方式。

And so we, you know, we kinda stepped back and went into the exploration of what works best for us now.

然后调整了我们现在对优质性生活的定义。

And and then modified what good sex is for us right now.

我们一直持续这样做，这真的对我们帮助很大。

And we've continued to do that and it's it's really helped us.

我们现在在一起快九年了。

We've been together almost nine years now.

哇。

Wow.

我知道。

I know.

谁能想到这样的事还会再发生呢？

Who knew this could happen again?

一路上我学到的一件事是，我们并不需要以插入式性行为为目标，才能让性行为变得真实或美好。

And one of the things I learned along the way is we don't need to have the goal of penetrative sex for it to be real sex or good sex.

让我们看看现在能做些什么，利用各种性行为选择来激发我们、让我们达到高潮，同时让我们的老身体保持舒适并有效运作。

Let's see what we can do now given the buffet of sexual choices of things to do that will arouse us, bring us to orgasm, keep our old bodies comfortable, and work.

麦克以前从未使用过性玩具，除了玛乔丽独自使用过的非常老式的魔棒，他从未和她一起用过。

Mac had never experienced a sex toy other than a very old magic wand that Marjorie used solo, not with him.

我已经向他介绍了数十种性玩具，这样说并不为过。

And I've introduced him, it would be fair to say, to dozens of sex toys now.

我们把这些性玩具融入到我们的性爱游戏中。

We bring it into our sex play.

他喜欢阴茎性玩具，就像我喜欢阴蒂性玩具一样。

He enjoys the penis sex toys as much as I enjoy the clitor sex toys.

这从来不是非此即彼的问题。

And it's never that or us.

而是全部都包括在内，你知道的。

It's all of us, you know.

有了这些性玩具，我们始终是三人行；如果他用的是另一种，那就是四人行。

We're we're a threesome all the time with these sex toys or a foursome if he's using a different one.

我们玩一个游戏。

We have this game we play.

我们坚信让性爱充满惊喜和游戏才能保持乐趣。

We really believe in keeping sex fun with surprises and games.

其中一点是我们各自都有一个性爱篮子。

And one of it is that we each have a sex basket.

这个篮子放在他家。

This is at his house.

我们不住在一起，但对此非常满意。

We don't live together and we're very happy that way.

我们各自都有一个性爱篮子。

We each have a sex basket.

里面装着我们各自需要的润滑剂、清洁布、想使用的性玩具，以及其他任何可能有趣的东西，比如眼罩之类的。

It's filled with the lube each of us needs, a wash up cloth, the sex toy we want to incorporate, and anything else that might be fun, a blindfold or something.

他会走进我的房间，我住在他家时有自己的房间，我强烈推荐这种方式。

And he will come into my room, I have my own room at his house for when I stay over, which I highly recommend.

他会走进我的房间，看看篮子里有什么，就知道我想要什么。

He will come into my room and he will look at the basket and he'll see what's in it and he'll know what I want.

不过在此之前，为了做准备，我房间里有一个架子，我称之为震动器充电站

Before that though, in preparation, I have a shelf in that room that I call the vibrator charging station

天啊。

Oh my god.

这个充电站有多个插口，每次我们都会确保需要使用的设备都插好了。

Which has multiple connectors and each time we, you know, we make sure that what we need to use is plugged in.

即使我们可能会用音乐，我们也不确定。

And even if we might use music, we're not sure.

我们会插上电源并确认一下。

We plug it in and make sure.

当我为我们的性爱约会做准备时，我会看看篮子里，发现哦，这里悄悄放了这个，哦，他想用这个。

And when I'm preparing for our sex date, I will look in the basket and find, oh, sneaked in here and oh, he wants to use this.

哦，这太令人兴奋了。

Oh, that's exciting.

哇。

Wow.

我知道。

I know.

这一切都是以一种非常互动且有趣的方式逐步积累起来的。

It's all a matter of build up in a in a really interactive and fun way.

于是我把两个性爱篮子放在床头柜上。

And so then I put the two sex baskets on the bedside table.

我那里还有一个铃铛。

I have a bell there too.

铃铛是用来在我准备好了召唤他的。

And the bell is used to summon him when I'm ready.

当我准备好了，洗完澡、一切就绪、手机都关掉之后，我就会摇铃。

And so when I'm ready, freshly showered and got everything settled and phones are off, and I'll ring the bell.

在我摇铃之前，他不会进来。

He does not come in until I ring the bell.

我简直无话可说，因为你所说的每一件事都在原有的情趣之上又增添了一层诱惑。

I'm basically speechless in the sense of everything you're saying is adding a layer of erotic on top of the erotic.

我脑海里仿佛听到了铃铛清脆的声响，心里想着：好，开始了。

And, I mean, I'm hearing the tingling of the bell, tinkling whatever in my mind's ear, and I'm like, it's on.

你有一系列如此有趣的做法、仪式或结构来保持新鲜感。

What a fun series of practices and and rituals or or like structures you have in place to keep it exciting.

我的意思是，听起来太刺激了。

I mean, it it sounds thrilling.

这些做法中，我觉得也许全部都是我们在年老后，面对身体出现各种问题或疼痛时慢慢摸索出来的，但它们适用于任何年龄段的关系。

And some of these things, I'd say maybe all of these things, we had to figure out being old and having body parts that were wonky or hurting or but but they're applicable to any age relationship.

如果年轻人现在就开始这么做，当他们的身体开始衰老、不得不做出一些调整时，他们会享受更多乐趣，减少压力和恐惧。

You know, if young people started doing this now, they'd have a whole lot more fun and less stress and fear when their bodies started aging and said, wait, we have to change some things.

然后你会说：我不知道该怎么做。

And you go, I don't know how.

你说我得改变些什么，这是什么意思？

What do you mean I have to change things?

你说得太对了。

You're so right.

无论年龄大小，这些建议都适用。

This is this is applicable advice to anyone regardless of age.

当我想到你和麦克都失去了亲人，比如罗伯特和玛乔丽，我不禁好奇，你们是如何在这些空间中唤起他们的存在的。

And when I return to this idea that both you and Mac have lost people, you know, Robert, and Marjorie, I guess I wonder, like, sort of invoking them in these spaces.

你们是怎么做到这一点的？

How how do you go about that?

关于丧亲之后的性生活，你有什么见解？

What's your what's your insight into that part of sex after

哀伤？

grief?

在我们亲密的对话中——不一定是在床上，事实上通常不在床上——但当我们进行日常交谈时，关于玛乔丽和罗伯特的话题从不避讳。

Part of our intimate conversation, not while we're in bed necessarily, in fact usually not in bed, but when we're having normal conversation, is nothing's off limits about Marjorie and Robert.

我们经常互相提问，或者某件事会触发其中一人想起一个故事，然后我就讲出来，而这一切都备受欢迎。

And very often, we'll ask each other questions or something will remind one of us of a story and I'll tell the story and it's so welcome.

我开玩笑说，我们这段关系中有四个人。

In in a way I joke that there are four of us in this relationship.

这种氛围真的非常开放。

And it's just so open.

并不是很多人不理解悲伤的过程。

It's not so many people don't understand the grief process thing.

你必须把所有让你想起之前关系的东西都清理掉，等等。

You have to rid your house of everything that reminds you of your previous relationship and so on.

是的。

Right.

但根本不是这样。

And it isn't that at all.

我们同时爱两个人是可能的。

We can love two people at the same time.

我们失去的那个人，和我们如今拥有的这个人。

The person we lost and the person we have.

通过我的经历，我逐渐明白，如此深爱一个人并不会封闭你的心。

What I came to understand through my process is that loving someone that deeply doesn't close your heart.

相反，它会扩展你的心，让你能够接纳新的人。

It expands it so that you can bring in someone new.

我在想，是否有听众曾经失去过亲人，并希望重新连接自己的性欲。

I wonder if someone listening has lost someone and wants to connect with their sexuality again.

你建议他们第一步该怎么做？

What are some first steps you recommend they take?

一些第一步是明确你现在生活中真正需要的是什么。

Some first steps are to decide exactly what it is you need at this moment in your life.

这并不是你失去亲人之前所需要的东西。

It's not what you needed before you lost your person.

也不是你今后将需要的东西。

It's not what you'll need from now on.

就是现在，此刻。

It's right now, right now.

你的身体需要什么？

What does your body need?

你的情绪意味着什么？

What do your emotions mean?

那你现在还不想要什么？

And what don't you want yet?

然后去寻找那样的人，并向潜在的伴侣说明。

And to then go looking for that and to explain to a potential partner.

而所谓的潜在伴侣，必须是经过慎重选择的人。

And by potential partner, it needs to be someone well chosen.

必须是与你相处融洽、正在相互了解、有化学反应并且沟通自然的人。

It needs to be someone that you get along with, you're getting to know, and the the chemistry is there and the easy communication is there.

你感觉到你们的连接已经足够深入，可以坦诚地说：我很脆弱，这是我的第一次，老实说我不知道自己能做到什么程度。

And you feel that you are connecting well enough to say, I am very vulnerable, this is my first time and I honestly don't know how much I'll be able to do.

所以我想我们先约定，也许只是互相拥抱和亲吻一会儿，看看这种感觉如何。

So I want us to agree that we'll just maybe hold each other and kiss for a while and see how that feels.

接下来也许我们可以进行一些探索性的触碰。

And maybe we'll do some exploratory touching next.

我们再看看这种感觉如何。

We'll see how that feels.

然后我们今天就到这里，看看之后会有什么感觉。

And then we'll stop for today to see how that feels later.

如果这对你来说没问题，我想和你一起踏上这段旅程。

And if this is good with you, I wanna go on this journey with you.

如果不行，现在就告诉我，别有压力。

If it's not, just tell me now, no hard feelings.

我知道这并不是你原本期待的。

I know this is not what you side out for.

甚至在之前，你知道，当你失去伴侣时，你在书中建议了一些方法，可以帮助人们更轻松地度过这种转变。

Even before, you know, you do lose your partner, you recommend in your book some steps people can take to make this sort of transition easier.

你能谈谈你建议人们怎么做吗？

Can you talk about what you recommend folks do?

我们做过的一件事，也是我建议每个人都去做的，无论你的伴侣是生病了、濒临死亡，还是目前完全健康，就是坐下来进行这场非常重要的对话。

Well, one thing that we did and I recommend that everyone do, whether your partner is ill, on the verge of death, or perfectly healthy at the moment, is to sit down and have this really important conversation.

首先让我告诉你为什么。

And first let me tell you why.

许多哀悼者在开始考虑邀请另一个人进入自己的生活时，都会被内疚感吞噬。

So many grievers are consumed with guilt when they start thinking of inviting another person into themselves.

他们觉得这是对丈夫的背叛。

They feel I'm betraying my husband.

我承诺过忠诚。

I promised fidelity.

这会违背我们所坚持的一切。

I it would be betrayal of everything we stand for.

我想让每一个有幸拥有伴侣的人，都对他们说：我爱你，我想让你知道这一点。

And what I want to have everybody do with a partner that they're lucky enough to have with them is to say, I love you and I want you to know this.

如果我先你而去，或无法再做你完整的伴侣，我希望你能安心地去寻找新的快乐与慰藉。

If I predecease you or I am unable to be a complete partner to you, I want you please to feel you can seek joy and comfort with someone new.

并从你的伴侣那里得到这样的回应。

And to get that message back from your partner.

很多人甚至在伴侣临终前，都不愿面对这个问题。

So many people don't, even when someone is close to death, a partner will wanna ward it off.

我说不不不，别谈这个。

I say no no no don't talk about that.

不行。

No.

谈谈这个吧。

Talk about it.

这是你拥有的机会。

This is the chance you have.

如果你在需要之前就做了，到时候你就有了。

And if you do it before you need it, you'll have it.

你可以多年来不断确认。

You can keep checking in over the years.

这还真实吗？

Is this still true?

我只是想提醒你。

I just wanna remind you.

但人们总觉得他们被内疚吞噬了，即使伴侣还活着，只是患有阿尔茨海默病或住在养老院里。

But people feel they're they're they're I mean, they're just consumed with guilt is what I can even if the partner hasn't died but perhaps has Alzheimer's or is a confined to a residential home.

我的意思是，进行这样的对话非常合理，但我理解——我相信你也明白——为什么这样的对话会如此困难。

I mean, it makes so much sense to have this conversation and yet I understand, I'm sure you do too, why that conversation would be so hard.

因为我们最亲近的人的离世，是我们不愿去想，更不用说具体谈论的话题。

Because the death of, you know, the person we're the closest to is not something we want to think about, let alone speak about in specific terms.

但作为爱的表达，消除这种内疚感似乎至关重要，如果你确实有这样的感受的话。

But it does it seems incredibly important as an act of love to remove that guilt, you know, if you do feel that way, to remove that guilt.

是的。

Yes.

我能问你一个问题吗？

Can I ask you?

你和麦克有过这样的对话吗？

I mean, have you and Mac had this conversation?

哦，当然有。

Oh, absolutely.

我们一直在反复提及这件事，尽管已经到了我都懂、我都懂、我都懂的地步。

And we continue to revisit it even though it's gotten to the point of, yeah, I know, I know, I know.

但你知道，我们一直重复说，只是想确认这依然是真的。

But, you know, we just keep we keep saying it because we just want to confirm it's still true.

这依然是真的。

It's still true.

我们理解这一点。

We understand this.

我们也希望如此。

And we want this.

我们中可能有人会说，我能想象。

And and one of us may say, oh, can imagine.

我的意思是，看看我的年纪。

I mean, look at my age.

我能想象。

I can imagine.

我能不能想象出来并不重要。

It doesn't matter if I can imagine it or not.

只要你能做到，就坦然去做，别有负罪感。

Just if you do, go without guilt.

这有点难，因为这是你的工作。

This is a bit of a it's a tough one because this is your your work.

但如果要你选一件事，让人们对性与哀伤有所了解和记住，你会选哪一件？

But if I asked you for one thing that you want people to know and remember about sex and grief, what would that thing be?

先了解你自己。

Get to know your self first.

那个没有伴侣的你。

The self you are now without your partner.

别太苛责自己。

Don't be judgmental.

别想，‘哦，不行。’

Don't think, oh, no.

不。

No.

我绝不会那样做。

I'd never do that.

这是自私一点的时候。

It's a time to be selfish.

这并不自私，这是自我保护。

And it's not selfish, it's self protective.

你会觉得，哦，我太自私了。

It will seem like, oh I'm being selfish.

不。

No.

你是在自我保护，而且这里出现了一个全新的你。

You're being self protective and there is a new you here.

直到你花时间、耐心和同情心去连接、学习并向前迈进，你才会真正认识这个人。正如我从一位哀伤顾问那里学到的：失去你深爱的人，并不意味着你余生都将空虚和充满失落。

And you don't even know who that is until you take the time and the patience and the compassion, the compassion to connect and learn and take that forward and realize that as I learned from one grief counselor, losing your beloved isn't a sign that you will be empty and filled with loss for the rest of your life.

失去你所爱的人，意味着你学会了如何去全心去爱，而这份爱将伴随你前行。

Losing your beloved can mean that you learned how to love fully and you take that with you on your path.

琼·普赖斯，这真是一场精彩的对话。

Joan Price, what a conversation.

非常感谢你。

Thank you so much.

这远超我的荣幸。

It has been more than my pleasure.

这真是我的莫大喜悦。

It's been my absolute delight.

谢谢你，安娜。

Thank you, Anna.

琼·普赖斯的书，我们在本集中谈到的那本，名为《哀悼之后的性：在失去挚爱后重新认识自己的性》。

Joan Price's book, the one we talked about in this episode, is called Sex After Grief, Navigating Your Sexuality After Losing Your Beloved.

《现代爱情》团队包括艾米·珀尔、戴维斯·兰德、艾莉莎·古铁雷斯、艾米莉·朗、珍·波扬、林·利维、里瓦·戈德堡和萨拉·柯蒂斯。

The Modern Love team is Amy Pearl, Davis Land, Alyssa Gutierrez, Emily Lang, Jen Poyant, Lynn Levy, Riva Goldberg, and Sarah Curtis.

本集由莎拉·柯蒂斯制作。

This episode was produced by Sarah Curtis.

本集由林恩·莱维剪辑，我们的混音师是丹尼尔·拉米雷斯，录音室支持由尼克·皮特曼提供。

It was edited by Lynn Levy and Jen Our mix engineer was Daniel Ramirez, and we had studio support from Nick Pittman.

本集的原创音乐由索尼娅·埃尔雷罗、黛安·王、帕特·麦卡斯克和罗宾·内米斯托创作。

Original music in this episode by Sonia Herrero, Diane Wong, Pat McCusker, and Robin Nemisto.

丹·鲍威尔为我们创作了主题音乐。

Dan Powell composed our theme music.

《现代爱情》专栏由丹尼尔·琼斯编辑。

The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones.

李mia是现代爱情项目的编辑。

Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects.

如果你想向《纽约时报》提交一篇散文或一个微小的爱情故事，我们已在节目说明中提供了投稿指南。

If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to The New York Times, we've got the instructions in our show notes.

我是安娜·马丁。

I'm Anna Martin.

感谢收听。

Thanks for listening.