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你好。
Hi.
我叫达娜。
My name is Dana.
我是《纽约时报》的订户，但我的丈夫不是。
I am a subscriber to The New York Times, but my husband isn't.
能够分享一个食谱、一篇文章，或者和他玩填字游戏或Connections，真的会很好。
And it would be really nice to be able to share a recipe or an article or compete with him in Wordle or Connections.
谢谢。
Thank you.
达娜，我们听到了你的声音。
Dana, we heard you.
推出《纽约时报》家庭订阅服务。
Introducing the New York Times Family Subscription.
一个订阅，可为生活中最多四位家人提供独立登录账号。
One subscription up to four separate logins for anyone in your life.
了解更多，请访问 nytimes.com/family。
Find out more at nytimes.com/family.
爱现在，你坠入
Love now and You fall in
爱，上次我爱他们。
love last time I love them.
爱比你所爱的任何事物都更强大。
Love is stronger than anything you love.
为了爱。
For the love.
爱。
Love.
我比什么都更爱你
And I love you more than
任何事物。
anything.
爱。
Love.
只是爱。
Just love.
我经常跟杰夫说，我们不该做朋友，因为他是双子座，而我是天蝎座，这两个星座不兼容。
I like to tell Jeff all the time that we should not be friends because he is a Gemini, and I'm a Scorpio, and they're not compatible.
伊丽莎白和杰夫是最好的朋友，尽管他们很多时候都让对方烦得要命。
Elizabeth and Jeff were best friends, even though a lot of the time, they annoyed the crap out of each other.
他喜欢逗我，喜欢惹我生气。
He loved to give me a hard time, and he loved to wind me up.
他最享受的就是这个。
He loved nothing more.
伊丽莎白会取笑杰夫奇怪的发型和酸洗牛仔裤。
Elizabeth would pick on Jeff for his weird haircut, his acid washed jeans.
杰夫则会取笑伊丽莎白相信星座，他认为这完全是胡说八道。
Jeff would pick on Elizabeth for believing in astrology, which he thought was nonsense.
我朋友后来开始叫他'较真男'。
My friend started calling him actually man.
她身上有个很痒的大包，她说是蜘蛛咬的。
She had this big itchy bite, and she said it was a spider bite.
然后他就说，实际上，蜘蛛不咬人。
And he went, actually, spiders don't bite.
我当时就说，没错。
And I was like, yes.
它们确实如此。
They do.
你听说过黑寡妇吗？
Have you heard of a black widow?
说真的，伙计。
Actually, man.
说真的，这是减肥的最佳方法。
Actually, the best way to lose weight.
实际上，那方面最好的锻炼方式。
Actually, the best exercise for that.
实际上，很多人认为这样那样。
Actually, a lot of people think blah blah blah.
每当他开始说‘实际上’，我就会跟着他重复一遍。
Whenever he would say actually, I would just echo it back to him.
哦，真的吗？
Oh, actually?
真的吗？
Really?
真的假的？
Actually?
那他就会生气。
Then he would get mad.
那我们俩都会生气。
Then we'd both be mad.
但无论他多么惹她心烦，无论他们彼此多么让对方恼火，伊丽莎白总是会原谅杰夫。
But no matter how much he might annoy her, no matter how much they might annoy each other, Elizabeth always forgave Jeff.
我们脸上就挂着最傻气的笑容。
We just had the goofiest grin.
那笑容是如此欢快，还带着一丝顽皮。
It was just so joyful and a little bit mischievous.
就像，他的眼睛里总是闪烁着一点光芒。
Like, there was always a little twinkle in his eye.
我们之间有一种可以无话不谈的关系。
And we had this relationship where I could say anything.
我可以拿任何事情开玩笑。
I could joke about anything.
没有任何话题是禁忌。
There was no topic, off limits.
伊丽莎白告诉我，在所有这些戏谑和玩笑之下，他们之间存在着一种牵引力，一种相互吸引，但他们从未真正准备好去探索它。
Underneath all that teasing and joking, Elizabeth told me there was a pull, an attraction between the two of them, but they were never quite ready to explore it.
他们等了又等，一直等着。
They waited and waited and waited.
我只是
I just
以为我们还有时间。
thought that we had time.
我只是觉得我们有永远的时间来解决这些问题。
I just thought we had forever to to work it out.
他们一直等到几乎为时已晚。
They waited until it was almost too late.
来自《纽约时报》，我是安娜·马丁。
From The New York Times, I'm Anna Martin.
这是《现代爱情》。
This is Modern Love.
请继续关注。
Stay with us.
我正在开启跨平台对战。
I'm opening up cross play.
我一直在和《纽约时报》的同事丹对战。
I've been playing against Dan, my colleague at the New York Times.
我要在计分板倍数格上打出'stoop'这个词，s-t-u-p-e。
I'm gonna play stoop, s t u p e, across the trick board multiplier square.
猫又走了一步棋。
Cat's played another move.
呃。
Ugh.
而且她确实有一个S。
And she did have an s.
她用'stoop'这个词得了36分。
She played stoop for 36 points.
我有一个Z，那是10分。
I've got a z, which is 10 points.
如果我把我的X放在那边，我就能组成'box'这个词。
If I put my x over there, I can make box.
我有两个A、两个N和两个T。
I have two a's, n's, and t's.
我猜'tango'不是一个有效的单词。
I'm guessing tango is not a word.
让我看看。
Let's see.
Tango是一个单词。
Tango is a word.
哦。
Oh.
不知道tango是什么意思，所以我长按这个词，哦，定义弹出来了。
Don't know what tango means, so I'm gonna press down on the word and oh, definition popped up.
塔吉克斯坦的旧货币单位。
Former monetary unit of Tajikistan.
每次玩这个游戏都能学到新东西。
Learn something every time I play this game.
尽管我领先大约50分，但我在交叉拼字游戏中学到的一点是：比赛永远没有结束。
Even though I'm about 50 points ahead, one thing I've learned in cross play is that the game is never over.
我刚收到通知，丹已经走了他的最后一回合。
I just got a notification and Dan played his last turn.
来看看谁赢了。
Let's see who won.
就差一点，但我确实赢了。
It's so close, but I did win.
Crossplay，《纽约时报》游戏推出的首款双人文字游戏。
Crossplay, the first two player word game from New York Times games.
今天就免费下载吧。
Download it for free today.
当你看到一场本可以赢的游戏时，真是令人心碎。
It's devastating when you see a game that you could have won.
伊丽莎白·劳拉·纳尔逊，欢迎来到《现代爱情》。
Elizabeth Laura Nelson, welcome to Modern Love.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我很高兴能来到这里。
I'm so happy to be here.
能在演播室见到你本人，将你的文章与面孔对应起来，真是太棒了。
It's really great to have you in the studio put a face to your essay.
我们在这里聊聊你和你的朋友杰夫。
We're here to talk about you and your friend, Jeff.
你和杰夫是怎么认识的？
How did you and Jeff meet?
杰夫和我通过我的前夫汤姆认识的。
Jeff and I met through my ex husband, Tom.
他说，我遇到了这个人。
He said, I met this guy.
他太棒了。
He's so great.
他是个艺术家。
He's an artist.
他是个父亲。
He's a dad.
他的女儿和我们的两个女儿年龄正好相隔中间。
His daughter's right in between the ages of our two daughters.
所以她们成了朋友，汤姆总是回家后告诉我一些事，比如，你知道的，杰夫从不给女儿买玩具。
So they were friends, and and Tom would always come home, and he would have something to tell me about, oh, you know, Jeff doesn't buy his daughter toys.
他亲手做。
He makes them.
他为她雕刻木制玩具。
He he whittles wooden toys for her.
还有，你知道的，睡前故事，他给她读《巴黎圣母院》。
And, you know, oh, for for bedtime story, he's reading her the hunchback of Notre Dame.
他真的很喜欢他，我也经常提起他。
And he he really just really liked him, and I talked about him a lot.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
那杰夫是怎么从汤姆的朋友变成你的朋友的呢？
And how did Jeff go from being Tom's friend to being your friend?
我在回想我们俩是什么时候开始单独相处的。
I'm trying to think when we started hanging out just the two of us.
嗯，我想大概是从我们开始跑步的时候吧。
Well, I guess it was when we started running.
我们住的地方离展望公园很近，所以我决定开始跑步。
We lived really close to Prospect Park, so I decided I was going to take up running.
我记得有天晚上和杰夫、汤姆还有孩子们吃饭时聊到了这个。
And I think I was talking about that at dinner one night with Jeff and Tom and and the kids.
然后杰夫说，哦，我也想开始跑步了。
And Jeff said, oh, I wanna start running.
我跟你一起跑。
I'll start running with you.
他完全同意，我们经常发短信互相提醒。
He was totally game, and we would text each other.
你知道的，我五分钟就出发了。
You know, I'm leaving in five minutes.
我会跑下街区，而他会在那儿跳来跳去，试图让自己热起来，如果是冬天的话。
And I would run down the block, and he'd be he'd be jumping up and down, trying to pump himself up or stay warm if it was winter.
是的，正是那时我们两个人的友谊真正开始升温。
And, yeah, that was when the the friendship really blossomed between the two of us.
我特别喜欢那个画面：他在街角等你，你跑过去，然后一起奔向公园。
I love that visual of him on the corner, you running to him, you heading off at the park.
你们之前有跑步的习惯吗？
Were either of you runners before?
没有。
No.
这是我第一次真正地，比如说，买合适的鞋子和所有装备之类的。
This was the first time that I was really, like, getting the right shoes and all the the gear and all of that.
所以我们是一起入门的。
So we were getting into it together.
这并不容易。
It was not easy.
我们确实在互相督促，所以在那个山坡上我们有点像是在互相挑战。
We were definitely pushing, and so we were kind of challenging each other on the there's a hill.
所以当我们跑上那个山坡时，我们中的一个有时会有点跟不上，通常是我。
So when we would go up that hill, one of us sometimes would be kind of flagging, usually me.
通常是我。
Usually, me.
而且我们俩都很喜欢电影《军官与绅士》。
And we both love the movie An Officer and a Gentleman.
我真希望能在这点上和你产生共鸣，但是
I wish I could connect with you on that, but
我不太了解那部电影。
I don't know that one.
不。
No.
所以你也许该看看。
So maybe you should watch it.
好的。
Okay.
你一定要看看。
You should definitely watch it.
但里面有个叫刘易斯·戈塞特 Jr. 的人，是那个教官、队长之类的。
But there's so Lewis Gossett junior is the, like, drill sergeant, captain, whatever.
理查德·吉尔是那个新兵。
Richard Gere is the the recruit.
有一个场景是他惹了麻烦。
And there's a scene where he gets in trouble.
所以小卢克·格拉塞特让他做各种高强度训练，比如俯卧撑，还用水管喷他，想逼他退出、放弃。
So Luke Glassett junior is running him through all these, you know, hard exercises, push ups, and spraying him with the hose and and trying to get him to quit to drop out.
然后他说，我要你的DOR。
And he says, I want your DOR.
我想这大概是‘按要求退出’之类的意思。
It's I think it's, like, drop on request or whatever.
理查·基尔说，我不会放弃的。
And Richard Gere says, I ain't quitting.
我不会放弃的。
I ain't quitting.
我已经无处可去了。
I got nowhere else to go.
我的意思是，如果人们没看过那部电影，这个故事对他们来说就没意义。
I mean, the story will not make sense to people if they haven't seen the movie.
对我来说是有意义的。
It makes sense to me.
但当我们还在那座山上，或者任何时候我们中有人真的累到不行时，另一个人就会说，我要你的DOR。
But when we were on that hill or any time when one of us really was just so tired, the other one would say, I want your DOR.
然后另一个人会说，我不会放弃的。
And the other one would say, I ain't quitting.
我不会放弃的。
I ain't quitting.
无处可去。
Have else to go.
我太喜欢这个了。
I love that.
听起来你们互为对方的训练教官。
You were each other's drill sergeant, it sounds like.
训练教官、公园、玩伴。
Drill sergeant, park, play buddy.
跟我讲讲那些跑步训练吧。
Tell me about some of those runs.
你们覆盖了哪些区域？
What territory did you cover?
你们都聊了些什么？
What did you talk about?
我们什么都聊。
We talked about everything.
我们通常从聊前一天晚上睡得怎么样开始。
We would usually start out talking about how did you sleep the night before.
那是杰夫。
That was Jeff.
他对自己的睡眠质量非常在意。
He was obsessed with the quality of his sleep.
所以不可避免地，话题就会转到我们最近在想的事情上。
So then inevitably, it would go into whatever was on our minds lately.
无论是育儿问题，还是他在约会，或是我的婚姻状况，我们很快就能深入交谈。
If it was a parenting thing or he was dating someone, my marriage, we we did get deep real quick.
我当时正在经历，我是说，我在2011年离婚了，或者说2011年离开了汤姆。
And I was going through I mean, I got divorced in 2011 or left Tom in 2011.
所以我跟杰夫聊了很多这方面的事。
So I talked a lot of that through with Jeff.
他是那个人。
He was the one.
而且他和汤姆是非常好的朋友，他们的友谊至今依然牢固。
And he is very good friends with Tom, and and still their friendship remained strong.
所以这让我在需要发泄时有了自由发泄的空间。
So that kind of gave me the freedom to vent if I needed to vent.
我知道杰夫还是会爱汤姆的。
I knew that Jeff was still gonna love Tom.
我的意思是，看起来你和杰夫对谈论任何事情都感到很自在。
I mean, it it seems like you and Jeff felt comfortable talking about everything, anything.
为什么呢？
Why?
没有什么会冒犯到他。
Nothing offended him.
似乎真的没有什么会伤害到他的感情。
Nothing really seemed to hurt his feelings.
我不想...我不想让人觉得他没有感情。
I don't wanna I don't wanna make it sound like he didn't have feelings.
他当然有。
Definitely did.
我们两人之间有种特别的东西。
There was something about the two of us.
我知道他了解我内心深处的真实模样，无论我可能说什么，都不会改变我是谁，也不会改变他对我的理解。
I knew that he knew who I really am at this core level and that whatever I might say, it didn't it didn't change who I am and his understanding of me.
所以，如果我心情不好或者生气，说了些关于某人的刻薄话，或者，你知道，我甚至不需要告诉他，比如，哦，我不是真心的，或者也许我不该那么说。
So if it's I was in a bad mood or if I was angry, I said something mean about somebody or, you know, I I didn't I didn't even have to tell him, like, oh, I didn't really mean it or maybe I shouldn't say that.
他理解真实的我。
He understood who I really was.
我们...我们拥有一个只属于我们俩的世界。
We've we had this world that was just the two of us.
是的。
Yeah.
带我进入那个世界看看。
Bring me inside that world.
有什么是只属于你和杰夫之间的？
What's something that was just for you and Jeff?
我
I
有个邻居行为有点奇怪。
had a neighbor who was behaving a little strangely.
所以我和杰夫决定我们需要监视他的动向。
So Jeff and I decided that we needed to monitor his movements.
就是想搞清楚，这家伙到底是怎么回事。
Like, figure out, like, what is going on with this guy.
是杰夫的主意，我们要用代号，他是蓝隼，我是红雀。
And it was Jeff's idea that we would have code names, and he was blue falcon and I was red sparrow.
这些名字是他想出来的。
He came up with the names.
他可能会说，红雀，我发现了我们的目标。
He might say, red sparrow, I spotted our target.
他正朝你那边去。
He's coming towards you.
然后我会说，收到，蓝隼。
And I would say, copy that blue falcon.
你们在外面会互相称呼红雀、蓝隼吗？还是这只是发短信时的称呼？
Did you call each other, like, red sparrow, blue falcon out in the world, or was this just a text thing?
不会，除非是私下场合，因为那是我们的秘密代号。
Not really because only if we were in private because they were our secret code names.
抱歉。
Sorry.
对吧？
Right?
对吧？
Right?
没人能看见。
No one could see.
没人能知道。
No one no one could know.
你离婚后，这对你和杰夫的友谊有什么影响吗？
When you got divorced, did that change how did that change your friendship with Jeff?
它改变了你和杰夫的友谊吗？
Did it change your friendship with Jeff?
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得没改变。
I don't think it changed it.
我们可能变得更亲近了，仅仅因为我是单身。
We maybe became closer just because I was single.
对吧？
Right?
我可能有更多时间了。
I had maybe more time.
当女儿们和她们爸爸在一起时，我有了属于自己的时间。
I had time when I wasn't with the girls, when they were with their dad.
所以这可能反而加深了我们的友谊。
So it probably deepened our friendship.
是的。
Yeah.
那里有个叫'恶作剧'的小酒吧。
So there's a little bar called Shenanigans.
对。
Yep.
什么？
What?
Shenanigans爱尔兰酒吧。
Shenanigans Irish Pub.
你知道吗？
Do you know it?
知道。
Do.
所以那家酒吧周六晚上有卡拉OK，我们就会去唱卡拉OK。
So they have karaoke on Saturday nights, and we would go sing karaoke.
我们会唱《我们属于哪里》，那是电影《军官与绅士》的主题曲。
We would sing up where we belong, which is the theme song from an officer and a gentleman.
嗯，一切又绕回到那部电影了，不是吗？
Well, it all comes back to that movie, does it not?
你们俩。
The two of you.
那是你们的歌。
That was your song.
那是我们的歌。
That was our song.
那是我们的歌。
That was our song.
爱将我们托起 你能
Love lift us up Can you
唱一小段吗？
sing a little bit?
就哦，好的。
Just oh, yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
爱将我们托起，让我们找到归属。
Love lift us up where we belong.
是的。
Yes.
就这首。
This one.
在雄鹰翱翔的地方。
Where the eagles cry.
大家肯定在想，又是那两个人开始唱歌了。
Everyone's like, it's those two again singing.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
当时我们在谢南尼根酒吧，喝得太多了，然后去了他家，就在一个街区外。
So we were at Shenanigans, had too much to drink, went back to his place, which is a block away.
我躺在沙发上，他在弹吉他。
And I was lying on the couch, and he was playing guitar.
他当时正在通过YouTube视频自学弹吉他。
He was teaching himself how to play the guitar from YouTube videos.
还有，YouTube是杰夫的一大特色。
Also, a big Jeff thing, YouTube.
任何东西。
Anything.
他总说，YouTube上什么视频都有。
He's like, there's YouTube video on that.
其实，有YouTube在。
Actually, there's YouTube.
所以他正在自学吉他，当时在弹《黑鸟》。
So he's teaching himself to play guitar, and he was playing Blackbird.
经典中的经典。
Classic Classic.
初学者的吉他曲。
Beginning guitar song.
当他弹奏时，我躺在沙发上，醉醺醺的，感觉很恶心。
And as he was playing and I was lying on the couch in my drunken state, I felt sick.
我开始感受到一种氛围，天啊。
And I started to feel this vibe that, like, oh my god.
杰夫该不会想亲我吧？
Is is Jeff gonna try to kiss me?
当时房间里的气氛，当然，变了。
Is there gonna be like, it was you know, when the air in the room Of course.
气氛变了。
Changes.
于是我赶紧起身，冲进浴室，接着就是抱着头发，狂吐。
So I quickly got up, bolted to the bathroom, and I'm you know, then it was the holding the hair, and I'm puking.
好吧。
Okay.
所以你没有亲他。
So I you did not kiss.
我完全明白你说的'房间里的气氛变了'是什么意思。
I know exactly what you mean by the air in the room changes.
气氛变得紧张起来，或者我不知道该怎么形容。
It becomes charged or I don't know what the right word is.
就像变得更尖锐了。
It's like sharper.
就是有一种转变。
There's there's a shift.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
那次转变是怎么回事？你之前从没想过吗？
What about that shift was so had you never thought about it before?
我之前想过，但只是因为朋友们提过。
I had thought about it only in that my friends had suggested.
你知道的，你和杰夫关系那么好。
You know, you're such good friends with Jeff.
你不觉得吗？
Don't you think?
也许吧。
Maybe.
而我总是坚决地否认。
And I was always stridently, no.
绝对不是。
Absolutely not.
为什么？
Why?
我并没有看着他，然后想，哦，他真帅。
I didn't look at him and think, like, oh, he's so hot.
而且他是我最好的朋友。
And he was my best friend.
一旦你和某人发展出浪漫关系，这就会改变你们的友谊和关系，而我只是不想那样做。
And once you make things romantic with somebody, like, it's gonna change your friendship, your relationship, and I just didn't wanna do that.
你不想冒这个险。
You didn't wanna risk it.
我不想冒这个险，但我一直觉得，我随时都可以。
I didn't wanna risk it, but I always had the feeling that I could at any time.
我知道，我知道他愿意。
I knew I knew that he was game.
即使他在约会别人，即使他最相爱的时候，我也知道。
Even when he was dating somebody, even when he was the most in love, I knew.
我会想，只要我打个响指，他就会为我甩了她。
I and I I would kinda think, like, I could just snap my fingers and he would drop her for me.
我就是知道。
I just knew.
你眼神里的那抹光。
The glint in your eye.
我的意思是，你怎么会知道的？
I mean, how did you know?
我们还行。
We had okay.
当我准备重新开始约会和重新发生性关系时，我非常紧张。
When I was so I was very nervous to start dating again and to have sex again
嗯。
Mhmm.
和一个新人。
With a new person.
对吧？
Right?
我已经好多年没和新人在一起过了。
It had been years since I'd been with somebody new.
我非常紧张，有一天我去他公寓，对杰夫说：我们必须假装做爱，你得告诉我关于我身体的真实想法。
I was very nervous, and I went over to his apartment one day, and I said, Jeff, we have to have pretend sex, and you have to tell me the truth about my body.
假装做爱是什么意思？
What what does pretend sex mean?
就是，我脱到只剩内衣，他铺开了他的瑜伽垫。
Like, I stripped down to my underwear, and he rolled out his yoga mat.
然后他问，我要脱衣服吗？
And he said, should I take off my clothes?
我说，不用。
I said, no.
但他还是脱掉了衬衫。
He took off his shirt anyway.
他喜欢把上衣脱掉。
He loved to take his shirt off.
然后，是的，我们就做了这些，就像尝试了各种不同的姿势，有点像一本小型的《爱经》，然后我会说，好了。
And, yeah, we just got I did all these, like, went through a little kama sutra of different positions, and I would say, okay.
看这里。
Look here.
看到我的肚子现在是怎么垂着的吗？
See how my stomach is hanging right now?
那这个呢？
What about this?
那那个呢？
What about that?
那我大腿上的这个凝乳干酪呢？
What about this this cottage cheese on my thigh?
他会说什么？
What would he say?
他说，你看起来很棒。
He said, you look great.
你太棒了。
You're amazing.
有一刻，你可能没法把那个放上去。
At one point, you maybe can't put this on there.
对吧？
Right?
我们走着瞧。
We'll see.
我当时压在他身上，然后我说，看看我现在的肚子。
I was I was on top of him, and and I said I said, look at my stomach right now.
你甚至都没注意到这个。
You're not even noticing this.
你看到了吗？
Do you see?
就像被捶打过的面团。
It's like punched down bread dough.
他说，如果我现在正插在你里面，我什么都看不见。
And he said, if my dick is in you right now, I'm not seeing anything else.
感觉棒极了。
It feels amazing.
你看起来美极了。
You look amazing.
我的意思是，这是一件非常深刻且充满趣味的亲密行为。
I mean, it's so but it's it's what a deeply and playfully intimate thing to do.
我指的并不是性行为本身。
And I don't actually mean, like, the sex act of it all.
我是说，你对自己身体感到不安，并以一种非常脆弱而坦诚的方式向他表达了出来。
I mean the, like, you felt insecure about your body, and you were voicing that to him in a pretty vulnerable and open way.
你看到这一点了吗？
Like, do you see this?
我看起来怎么样？
How do I look?
嗯。
Mhmm.
你信任了他
And and you trusted him
嗯。
Mhmm.
要能够
To be
去接纳这一点。
able to hold that.
但事实上，杰夫是个很有主见的人。
But then also, like, the fact remains that Jeff is an opinionated he's an actually guy.
对吧？
Right?
你们俩经常发生摩擦。
And and you were bumping against each other.
所以，能跟我讲讲你们之间有没有什么典型的争吵吗？
So so tell me about, like, was there kind of, like, a classic fight between the two of you?
他特别喜欢谈论宗教。
He loved to talk about religion.
最主要的就是，我经常去教堂。
That was the the main thing is that I go to church a lot.
我非常信奉上帝。
I'm pretty into pretty into god.
我是个耶稣狂热者。
I'm a Jesus freak.
但我并不喜欢谈论它。
But I'm not I don't love to talk about it.
这对我来说非常私密。
It feels very personal to me.
我绝对不喜欢为此争论。
And I definitely don't like to debate about it.
我对向任何人辩护或特别解释我的信仰毫无兴趣。
I'm not interested in defending my beliefs to anyone or even explaining them particularly.
这只是我个人的事。
It's just kinda my thing.
而杰夫，我觉得他对灵性和信仰非常好奇，真的很想了解。
And Jeff, I think he was very curious about spirituality and faith and really wanted to know.
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但他问我这些问题的方式总是带着调侃和挑战的意味，让我觉得他就是想惹我生气。
But the way that he would ask me about it came out in this very teasing slash challenging way, and it really felt like he just wanted to make me mad.
我会说，杰夫，我不想谈这个。
And I would say, Jeff, I don't wanna talk about this.
这对我来说一点都不有趣。
This is not fun for me.
但他喜欢争论。
But he loved to argue.
他喜欢扮演魔鬼代言人，就是为了找人和他辩论，一直揪着我不放，直到我让他滚蛋。
He loved to play devil's advocate just to kind of get someone to debate with him, and he would just pick on me until I told him to fuck off.
他善于道歉吗？
Was he good at apologizing?
不。
No.
你大概也能猜到。
That could've guessed that.
尽管他当时说的那些话，表面上听起来既愚蠢又伤人，但你是否还能这样想：这个人仍然了解我、懂我，所以这些话其实没那么重要？
Though he was saying this kind of, like, ostensibly dumb and hurtful thing, were you able to be like, this person still knows me and sees me and this doesn't matter as much?
我觉得在我们友谊的初期，是的。
I think toward the beginning of our friendship, yes.
但到了后期，就不是了。
And toward the end, no.
而这就是争吵开始变得更为严重的地方。
And that's where the fight started to feel more serious.
就好像在说，我怎么能这样呢？
It was like how can I do this?
这不够形象。
That's not visual.
但是，当两条平行线时而靠近、时而远离、又再次靠近时。
But but when there are two parallel lines and they get closer together and further apart and closer together.
而这就是我以为会贯穿我们一生的模式。
And that's what I assumed would keep happening throughout our lives.
对。
Right.
我们会经历一些时候，彼此的路稍微分岔，然后又重新聚在一起。
That there would be these times where we you know, the paths were diverging a little bit, and then we would come back together.
即使到了最后，抱歉打断一下，但当我们吵架、不说话的时候，我知道我们之间有着一种永远不会消失的深厚联系。
Even toward the end sorry to jump, but but when we were fighting, when we weren't speaking, I knew that we had this deep connection that was never ever gonna go away.
广告后，杰夫生病了，他们的平行线再次分离，随后以一种令人难忘的方式重新交汇。
After the break, Jeff gets sick, and their parallel lines diverge again before coming back together in an unforgettable way.
请继续关注。
Stay with us.
好的。
Okay.
多年过去了。
So years pass.
你和杰夫仍然保持着非常亲密的友谊。
You and Jeff still have this very close friendship.
但尽管有这些暧昧的时刻，却从未真正发生过什么。
But even though there are these moments of flirtation, nothing ever happens.
然后在某个时刻，杰夫发现自己生病了。
And then at some point, Jeff finds out that he's sick.
你能告诉我你是怎么得知这个消息的吗？
Can you tell me how you got that news?
嗯。
Mhmm.
我记得他来到我的公寓，我清楚地记得我当时站在哪里，他站在我客厅的哪个位置。
I remember he came over to my apartment, and I do I remember exactly where I was standing, where he was standing in my living room.
然后他说，我得了癌症，甲状腺癌。
And he said, I have cancer, thyroid cancer.
我哭了。
I cried.
我们都哭了。
We both cried.
我哭了。
I cried.
我们拥抱了。
We hugged.
我告诉他他会没事的。
I told him he was gonna be okay.
我...我记不太清楚具体细节了。
And I'm I'm not gonna remember exactly Totally.
事情是这样的，但我觉得他得这病已经有好几年了。
Things, but I feel like he had had it for some years.
医生告诉他，他可能已经患病很多年了。
They told him that he had probably had it for many years.
而且肿瘤生长得非常缓慢，他本应该接受手术，你知道的，就是把肿瘤切除，但他太固执了。
And it was very slow growing, and he was supposed to have surgery with the you know, take the tumor out, but he was too stubborn.
他一直拖延手术，直到几乎无法呼吸或吞咽。
And he put off that surgery until he really almost couldn't breathe or swallow.
比如，他不得不做手术。
Like, he had to have it.
他为什么拖延？
Why did he put it off?
他认为可以自己治疗。
He thought that he could treat it himself.
他不相信西医。
He did not trust Western medicine.
杰夫有个弟弟，名叫维克多，在他很小的时候就去世了。
Jeff had a younger brother who died when he was his name was Victor.
维克多当时四岁，而杰夫我记得是八岁。
Victor was four, and Jeff was, I believe, eight.
维克多当时正在接受一个常规手术。
And Victor was having a routine procedure.
我记得他眼皮有点下垂，但麻醉出了意外，导致他去世了。
He had a droopy eyelid, I think, and something went wrong with the anesthesia, and he died.
我想这件事影响了他一生，让他对医疗界产生了某种不信任。
And I think that that affected him for the rest of his life in some mistrust of the medical world.
医生们。
Doctors.
是的。
Yeah.
也许这就是为什么他认为可以依靠YouTube上的医生视频。
And and maybe that's part of why he thought that he could use doctor YouTube.
他试图告诉我他看的所有YouTube视频，但我真的不想听这些。
He tried to tell me about all the YouTube videos he was watching, and I didn't really wanna hear it.
他有一段时间停止吃香蕉了。
He stopped eating bananas for a while.
他其实很爱吃香蕉，但他当时说，我正在实行一种饮食法，不能吃任何不在你同一纬度生长的东西。
He really loved bananas, and he was like, I'm doing this diet where you can't eat anything that doesn't grow at your same latitude.
他曾在网上订购了一种高剂量大麻油，有天下午他服用过量，然后给我打了电话。
There was this high dose cannabis oil that he ordered online, and that he took too much one afternoon, and he called me.
我没有接。
I didn't pick up.
然后我发现我错过了他打来的好几个电话，还收到了一条语无伦次的语音留言。
And I saw that I'd missed a bunch of calls from him, and then I had this frantic voice mail.
他说他以为自己要死了，因为他嗨过头了。
He said he thought he was gonna die because he was too high.
当他告诉你他做的这些事情，当你看到他做的这些事——不吃香蕉、用大麻油，而且听起来也没有遵循医生要求尽快手术的指示时。
When he told you about these things he was doing, when you saw the things he was doing, the no bananas, the cannabis oil, and not following, it sounds like, the the doctor's orders, which was to get surgery as soon as possible, it sounds like.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
作为他最好的朋友，你当时是什么反应？
How did you react as someone who this is your best friend.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
你当时是什么反应？
How did you react?
我非常生气。
Was so angry.
我气坏了，于是不再和他说话。
I was so angry, and I stopped talking to him.
我告诉他，等你按照医生的建议去做时，我再和你联系。
And I told him, I said, I will talk to you again when you do what the doctors are telling you to do.
你需要做手术。
You need to get surgery.
如果你再打电话给我，说任何症状或抱怨，我都不听，因为我说了，你必须先做手术。
If you call me with any kind of symptoms, any kind of complaints at all, I just I wouldn't hear it because I said, well, you need to get surgery.
我气疯了。
I was furious.
我明白。
I I get it.
但你的愤怒到底是因为什么呢？
But what was the the anger was because why?
我爱他，我希望他能好起来。
I loved him, and I wanted him to be okay.
我觉得他绝对可以好起来。
And I thought he absolutely could be okay.
他一直以来都对此很被动。
And he was fairly passive about that always.
当我停止和他说话的时候，我希望他能主动来找我，足够爱我，来修复这段关系，说：‘伊丽莎白生气了。’
And in the the times when I would stop talking to him, what I wanted was for him to pursue me, to to love me enough to fix it, to say, like, oh, Elizabeth's angry.
让我去和她谈谈。
Let me talk to her.
让我来解决这个问题。
Let me fix this.
但这并不是他的风格。
And that wasn't his way.
当你不和他说话的时候，你会想他吗？
When you weren't talking to him, were you thinking about him?
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
一直如此。
Always.
每一天。
Every day.
每一天都在想。
Every day.
我开始梦到他。
I started to have dreams about him.
我当时对他很生气。
I would I'd been angry with him.
我们当时没有说话，而我开始做一些关于杰夫非常激烈的性梦。
We weren't talking, and I started to have these really intense sex dreams about Jeff.
然后我醒来时会感到非常兴奋。
And I would wake up and be so turned on.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
然后我会想，好吧。
And I would think, alright.
这就是了，我干脆直接给他打电话吧。
This is I'm just gonna I'm just gonna call him up.
我打算过去那边，然后我们就直接上演那场梦里的情节，就是那种一触即发的状态。
I'm gonna go over there, and we're just gonna act out this dream where the it's on.
就像，我没办法，你懂吗？
Like, I can't you know?
就好像，我不在乎我是不是在生他的气。
It's like, I don't care if I'm mad at him.
但之后我会变得非常兴奋，以至于不得不自己解决。
But then I would be so turned on that I had to just take care of it myself.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我会自慰，然后起床。
So I would masturbate and then get up.
等到我喝咖啡的时候，我就想，你知道吗？
By the time I was, like, having my coffee, I was like, you know what?
没关系。
It's fine.
我不需要给他打电话。
I don't need to call him.
我自己解决了。
I handled it.
是的。
Yep.
我的意思是，当你们经历这些互不说话的时期，有时甚至是相当长一段时间不联系，你会担心你们的友谊就此结束吗？
I mean, when you would go through these periods of not talking, sometimes really extended periods of not talking, did you worry about your friendship ending?
比如，有过那种感觉吗？
Like, did it ever feel that way?
确切地说并没有，因为我们之间的关系总是时近时远，对吧。
It it didn't exactly only because we always kind of went in and out of Right.
有时天天混在一起，有时又各自忙于自己的事情。
Hanging out every day, and we'd be caught up in our separate things.
所以我从未想过我们不会再和好如初。
So I never never thought that we wouldn't come back together.
我觉得我是他最重要的人。
I felt like I was I was his person.
我就是他的人生伴侣。
I was his just life partner.
是的。
Yeah.
就是一起过日子，包括我们生对方气的时候。
Just doing life together, including when we were mad at each other.
主要是我生他的气。
Mostly me mad at him.
但我也觉得，我们之间的紧张关系在逐渐累积，我认为那种假装的性行为，以及那些性梦，这一切都指向我们的友谊正在演变成别的东西。
But I also think there was an element of that the tension was building between us that I think the pretend sex was sort of a the pretend sex and and the sex dreams, it was kind of all heading toward this our friendship is becoming something else.
在你和杰夫不联系的那段时间里，他的情况恶化了。
During a time when you and Jeff were not talking, he took a turn for the worse.
你能详细说说发生了什么吗？
Can you walk me through what happened?
那是五月，5月29日，我们的朋友埃里森给我发了一张短信截图，是杰夫发来的，说他正在西达斯西奈医院的急诊室。
So it was the May, May 29, and our friend Ellison texted me a screenshot of a text from Jeff saying he was in the emergency room at Cedars Sinai.
我甚至都不知道他在洛杉矶。
I didn't even know he was in Los Angeles.
我们有一段时间没联系了。
We had not been in touch for some time.
埃里森说，你要不要等一两天再说？
And Ellison said, why don't you give it a day or two?
我会弄清楚发生了什么。
I will find out what's going on.
我会告诉你的。
I'll let you know.
我说，好的。
And I said, okay.
然后我想，大概五分钟后，我给约翰发了条消息。
And then I think maybe five minutes later, I texted John.
我实在等不了了。
I I was not gonna be able to wait.
我给他发了消息。
I texted him.
你知道吗？
You know what?
实际上，我可以看看，我可以，我能
Actually, I could look I can I could can I
现在就能调出来吗？
pull up right now?
我完全可以在这里把它们调出来。
I can totally pull them up here.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Yeah.
5月29日。
May 29.
嘿，蓝隼。
Hey, Blue Falcon.
你听到了吗？
Do you copy?
我听说你住院了。
I hear you're in the hospital.
红雀，我最担心的事发生了，我的同志。
Red Sparrow, I fear the worst, my comrade.
他们怎么说？
What are they saying?
他们让你留在医院吗？
Are they keeping you in the hospital?
你什么时候该回家？
When are you supposed to come home?
杰夫说，一切都突然失控了。
And Jeff said, well, everything went sideways so fast.
我来的时候感觉还差不多，但一天比一天更糟，直到我根本无法正常运作。
I came here feeling more or less okay, but everything got worse day by day until I couldn't really function.
他还说了更多关于他感受的事，然后我希望我能说我不害怕。
And there was more about about how he was feeling, and then I wish I could say I'm not scared.
你在给他发短信。
You're texting him.
他在急诊室。
He's in the ER.
你当时在想什么？
What was going through your mind?
你居然在这种时候给他发短信。
You're texting him during this.
比如，你们在跟他说什么，你们又在想什么？
Like, what are you guys what are you telling him, and and what are you thinking?
我的感受是，我简直不敢相信，我们竟然让这么多时间白白流逝，没有参与彼此的生活。
What I felt was I couldn't believe I had let so much time go by without us being in each other's lives.
而那天晚上也是同样的情况。嗯。
And that was that same night Mhmm.
于是我给他发了短信，我真的好想你，真希望我们一整年都在聊天和分享。
That I texted him, I really do miss you and wish we were talking and sharing all year.
那就是他。
That's him.
那就是杰夫。
That's That's Jeff.
是的。
Yeah.
对不起。
I'm sorry.
我们有很多事要补上。
We will have a lot to catch up on.
杰夫说，我也很抱歉，亲爱的。
And Jeff said, I'm sorry too, love.
对此，我说，也许我们终于该做爱了。
And to that, I said, maybe we should finally fuck.
为什么？
Why?
我是认真的。
And I truly mean this.
我的意思是，为什么现在？
Like, why now?
你是认真的吗？
Did you mean that?
也许我们干脆做爱吧？
Maybe we should just fuck?
我是认真的。
I meant it.
为什么？
Why?
我是认真的。
I meant it.
我觉得我只是意识到，这一切都太荒谬了。
I I think I I just knew, like, all of this was just ridiculous.
我一直都知道我想要，但我就是不敢去那里。
I think I knew that I wanted to for a long time, but I couldn't I couldn't go there.
所以你们在来回发送这些消息。
So you're sending these back and forth.
你显然以一种幽默的方式提到了这个话题，但你是认真的。
You've clearly broached this topic in a funny, but in you really mean it.
你真的就是想发生性关系。
You're really like, let's have sex.
所以当你到洛杉矶，第一次见到杰夫，差不多一年没见了，那感觉怎么样？
So when you get to LA and you see Jeff for the first time in nearly a year, what's that like?
他看起来怎么样？
How did he look?
他看起来非常好。
He looked really good.
他看起来非常英俊。
He looked really handsome.
真的吗？
Really?
他很瘦，你知道，有点憔悴，但非常英俊，然后我们就拥抱了。
He was thin, you know, kinda haggard, so handsome, and we just hugged.
我就这样，像是倒在了他的怀里，他就那样抱着我。
I just, like, fell into his arms, and he was just holding me.
是的。
Yeah.
我，我想从我在洛杉矶国际机场看到他的那一刻起，我就知道这次有些不同，我们将会在一起。
I I think I knew from the moment I saw him at LAX that this was something was different, and we were gonna be together together.
尽管他之前生病了，但他为我们订了这个非常可爱的爱彼迎。
Even though he had been sick, it was like he had gotten us this really cute Airbnb.
然后，是的，我走进去，里面有一张大床和一张类似沙发床的床。
And, yeah, I went in, and there was a a queen bed and then a kind of a sofa bed.
然后我说，你想让我和你一起睡大床吗？
And I said, do want me to sleep in the big bed with you?
他回答说，好。
And he said, yeah.
我需要你当大勺子。
I need you to be the big spoon.
他说，他说，我感到很害怕。
And he said he said, I feel really scared.
但当你握着我的手时，我就不会害怕了。
But when you're holding my hand, I don't feel scared.
我们上床后，我能感觉到他身体好暖和，皮肤特别光滑。
So we got into bed, and I just could feel like he felt so warm, and his skin was so smooth.
我就知道了。
I I just knew.
我想，我不再抗拒了。
I was like, I'm I'm not gonna resist this anymore.
所以，好吧，我脱掉了睡衣。
So, yeah, I took my nightgown off.
我立刻依偎了上去。
I cuddled right up.
正如我一直以来所猜测的，他也很乐意。
And as I had always suspected, he was game.
我记得他说：‘哦，我现在特别好奇。’
I remember him saying, like, oh, I'm so curious now.
他就说，我觉得我们俩都特别想探索彼此的身体。
And he's just like, I think we both were just so curious to explore each other's bodies.
这个你认识了将近二十年的人，却从未完全见过裸体，也从未做过这些事或触碰过这些部位。
This person you've known for almost two decades, but, you know, had never seen completely naked, had never done these things or touched these parts.
而我们现在就这样做了，感觉非常舒适、自然，和我以前和任何人做爱的经历都完全不同。
And and now we were, and it was very comfortable, very easy, very different than any sex I've ever had with anybody ever.
它和你以前的任何一次性经历有什么不同？
How was it different than any sex you'd have before?
我不再感到自卑了。
I didn't feel self conscious.
我没有感到担心。
I didn't feel worried.
我不觉得需要扮演别人，或者为了他表现得可爱，或者做任何不是真实的自己。
I didn't feel like I had to be somebody else or, you know, be cute for him or or be anything other than who I was.
我们只是想靠近彼此。
We just wanted to be close.
这真的就像我们分别了太久一样。
It was truly like we had been apart for so long.
是的。
Yeah.
我们彼此深爱着对方。
And we loved each other so much.
我非常担心，他也非常害怕。
And I was so worried, and he was so scared.
那一晚和他做爱，就像我们想尽可能地靠近彼此，最终真正地了解对方。
And having sex with him that night was just like we wanted to get as close as we could to each other and finally know each other as well as we could.
通过这种方式与他亲密接触后，你觉得自己对他有了新的了解吗？
Did you feel like you learned anything new about him by being intimate with him in this way?
我们早已彼此了解并深爱着对方。
We already knew and loved each other so much.
这感觉就像是我们的身体终于追上了我们情感上早已达到的状态。
It was sort of like our bodies were just catching up to where we already had been emotionally.
但也许在身体层面，有些事情是……
But, like, physically, maybe there were things
确实如此。
that Certainly.
他曾提到过，我这才恍然大悟。
He had talked about that I was like, oh, I see now.
他曾经提到过的一些技巧和能力。
Things skills he had talked about having.
他说得对吗？
Was he right?
我的意思是，是的。
I mean, yeah.
和一个人亲密相处是什么感觉？
What was it like being intimate with someone?
我的意思是，他病得那么重。
I mean, he was so sick.
在某些方面，感觉更脆弱吗？
Did it feel more fragile in some ways?
或者或者
Or or
有一点。
A little.
他的耐力可能不太好。
His stamina was probably not Yeah.
那很好。
That's great.
他谈论过这件事吗？
Did he talk about it?
他有没有说过，比如，我...我...他道歉了吗？
Did he say, like, I'm I'm did he apologize?
我只是...
I'm just
第二天，他说，我真希望我们在生病之前就做了这件事，那样你就能真正看到我的本事了。
to The the next day, he said, I wish we had done this before I got sick because then you would have really seen what I can do.
而且当我们回到家时，他身体就不太好了。
And and it was when we got back home, he wasn't well enough.
我正想问，你们回到纽约后，是在交往吗？
I was gonna say, when you got back to New York, were you a couple?
是的。
Yeah.
我想我的意思是，我们没有正式确认关系。
I think I mean, we didn't officially say.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但确实。
But yeah.
所以我们飞回了纽约。
So we flew back to New York.
我们半夜到家，然后我去陪了他一下午。
We got home in the middle of the night, and then I went and spent the afternoon with him.
我给他买了一些杂货。
I picked up some groceries for him.
他看起来还不错，我就回家了，和他发了短信。
He seemed alright, so I went home and texted with him.
那时候他说，你知道的，你随时都可以过来。
And at that point, he said, you know, you can come over anytime.
我真希望我当时去了，但我真的很希望他能好起来，然后我第二天早上再过去。
And I I wish that I had, but I really wanted to think that he was gonna be okay, and then I would go over in the morning.
然后我没有把手机放在身边睡觉。
And then I didn't sleep with my phone next to me.
我本该这么做的。
I should have.
我错过了他在凌晨三点和五点发来的短信。
I had missed text from him at 3AM, 5AM.
他说：你醒着吗？
He'd said, are you up?
嘿。
Hey.
你醒着吗？
Are you awake?
然后在七点，他说：不管你什么时候看到这条消息，我的邻居正送我去急诊室。
And then at seven, he said, whenever you get this, my neighbor's taking me to the emergency room.
然后那天早上我就去了急诊室。
And then I I went to the emergency room that morning.
他看起来怎么样？
How did he look?
他看起来没变。
He looked the same.
是的。
Yeah.
疲惫、消瘦，呼吸困难，但还在笑。
Tired, thin, having trouble breathing, still smiling.
我们还在开玩笑，闹着玩。
We were still joking around, clowning.
你知道的。
You know?
我钻到他床上，依偎着他，我们还在开玩笑。
I was getting in the bed with him and snuggling up, and we're joking around.
但杰夫心里明白。
And but Jeff knew.
我想他清楚自己身体的状况，他告诉我，他不想再抗争了。
I think he knew what was going on in his body, and he told me, I don't wanna fight this.
听到他这么说，你当时是什么感受？
How did it feel to hear that?
我一点也不感到意外。
I wasn't surprised at all.
我知道他已经撑不下去了。
I knew that he was he was done.
我说，好吧。
I said, alright.
我想他说，我想我们需要一位临终关怀师。
I think he said, I think we need a death doula.
于是我联系了一位刚成为临终关怀师的熟人，然后他们在生日前一天让他离开了。
So I called up an acquaintance who I knew had just become a death doula, and then they let him go the night before his birthday.
哇。
Wow.
他当时要满多少岁了？
How old was he turning?
他当时要满59岁了。
He was turning 59.
而且通常情况下，办理出院手续有很多繁琐的程序。
And, normally, there's a lot of red tape to get checked out of the hospital.
他们说，我们知道明天是你的生日，所以尽管现在有点晚了，我们还是会帮你把手续办完。
And they said, we know it's your birthday tomorrow, so we're gonna push this through even though it's kind of late at night.
回到家，第二天就是他的生日。
Got home, and it was his birthday the next day.
所以他的邻居给他买了个蛋糕。
So his neighbor got him a cake.
我女儿去买了气球。
My daughter went and got balloons.
我们只发短信通知了少数几个人。
We texted just a few people.
那真是非常温馨的一天，真的。
It was a very sweet day, really.
确实很美。
Had really beautiful.
我们把气球系在了氧气罐上。
We tied the balloons to the oxygen tank.
但是，尽管我知道正在发生什么，我还是无法完全接受。
But, also, I I couldn't fully take in even though I knew what was happening.
在他生日后的那个早晨，也就是十二号的早晨，天还没亮他就早早叫醒了我，他说，就这样了。
And the morning after his birthday, so the morning of the twelfth, that's when he woke me up real early before the sun was up, and he said, that's it.
我...我撑不住了。
I'm I'm done.
那天晚上，我和他一起躺在床上，他问我，你还好吗？
That night, I was I was in the bed with him, and he said, are you okay?
我说，还好。
I said, yeah.
我没事。
I'm okay.
你没事吧？
Are you okay?
他说，是的。
And he said, yeah.
我说，我爱你。
And I said, I love you.
他说，我也爱你。
He said, love you too.
然后他睡着了，我也睡着了。
And then he went to sleep, and I went to sleep.
第二天早上我醒来时，他的呼吸非常微弱，我把头贴在他的胸口，倾听他的心跳，就这样一直陪在他身边好几个小时，甚至不清楚他具体是什么时候离开的。
And when I woke up in the morning, he was breathing very shallowly, and I put my head on his chest and listening for his heart and just stayed there in bed with him for a few hours, and I don't even know exactly when he passed.
临终关怀师在某个时候进来，告诉我他已经走了。
The death doula came in at some point and told me that he was gone.
我的头还靠在他胸口，我说，不。
And I still had my head on his chest, and I said, no.
我还能听到他的心跳。
I still hear his heart.
我还能听到他的心跳声。
I still hear his heart beating.
她说，我想那是你自己的心跳。
And she said, I think that's your own heart.
我知道这件事对你来说还很新鲜，所以我非常感激你几乎在事情发生后立刻就愿意谈论这类话题。
I know this is still very fresh, and so I appreciate it's very difficult to talk about this kind of stuff almost immediately after.
所以我很感谢你能分享这些。
So I appreciate you going there.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我很乐意谈论这件事。
I'm happy to talk about it.
我喜欢谈论杰夫。
I love to talk about Jeff.
但确实，这发生得太快了。
But, yeah, it is very, very soon.
我的意思是，就连走过来的路上，今天天气真好。
I mean, even walking here, and it's such a nice day today.
当我走出去，感受到夏天的气息时，我第一个念头是：哦，不。
And my first thought when I walk outside and it feels like summer is, oh, no.
夏天来了，而杰夫却不在这儿了。
It's summer, and Jeff's not here.
这意味着再过不久就满一年了。
And it's gonna that means it's gonna be a year soon.
时间的流逝确实如此。
And just the passage of time has been Yeah.
这种感觉很痛苦，仿佛随着我继续生活，我们在一起的时光正在不断缩短。
So difficult in that, like, it feels like it's shrinking the time that we had together as my life goes on.
我生命中那段有杰夫参与的时光正在变得越来越短暂，我对此感到非常痛恨。
That that piece of my life that had Jeff in it is becoming smaller and smaller, and I hate that so much.
我能问一下吗，你觉得为什么你和杰夫花了这么长时间，才在他生命的最后阶段以那种亲密的方式走到一起？
Can I ask, like, why do you think it took you and Jeff so long to come together in in this intimate way that you did at the end of his life?
你觉得为什么会拖这么久呢？
Like, why do you think it took so long?
我想我们俩都太固执了，我也在怀疑我们是否注定要成为恋人。
We are both so stubborn, I think I also wonder if we were meant to be romantic partners.
我想也许我们并不是。
I think maybe we weren't.
也许我们真的只是非常好的朋友和灵魂伴侣，而在他生命的最后阶段发生性关系，是我们能够做到的最亲密的相处方式。
Maybe we really were just such good friends and and soulmates, and having sex at the end of his life was a way of being as close to each other as we could possibly be.
这就是我们友谊的轨迹。
And that was the arc of our friendship.
我们俩一直都对此感到好奇。
We'd always both of us wondered.
我们确实想过。
We had.
但可能不是在同一时间。
Maybe not always at the same time.
我们都反复思考过这件事。
We had both thought about it a lot.
如果他在我们做到之前就去世了，那会是
And if he had died before we got to, that'd be
一个令人泪目的时刻。
a water hour cry.
当我在那个最后的早晨告诉杰夫我们在厨房接吻时，他说了这句话。
And that's what Jeff said to me when I said we were kissing in his kitchen in that last morning.
我当时哭了，说：我们本可以一直这样做的。
And I was crying, and I said, we could have been doing this the whole time.
我真是个混蛋。
I'm such an asshole.
我为什么这么蠢？
Why am I so stupid?
我当时不知道我们注定要在一起。
I didn't know that I we're supposed to be together.
他说，我认为事情会按照它们应有的方式发生。
And he said, I think things happen the way that they're meant to.
不，杰夫。
No, Jeff.
我想他是对的。
And I think he was right.
你让我哭了，哭了，哭了，我的朋友。
You make me cry, cry, cry, my friend.
这很美。
It is beautiful.
伊丽莎白·劳拉·纳尔逊，非常感谢你与我交谈，并分享你关于杰夫的故事。
Elizabeth Laura Nelson, thank you so much for talking to me and for sharing your story about Jeff.
非常感谢邀请我。
Thank you so much for having me.
本期《现代爱情》由艾米·珀尔制作，戴维斯·兰德协助。
This episode of Modern Love was produced by Amy Pearl with help from Davis Land.
由林恩·利维和我们的执行制片人詹·波因特编辑。
It was edited by Lynn Levy and our executive producer, Jen Poiant.
制作管理由克里斯蒂娜·约瑟夫负责。
Production management by Christina Joseph.
《现代爱情》的主题音乐由丹·鲍威尔创作。
The Modern Love theme music is by Dan Powell.
本集原创音乐由丹·鲍威尔、玛丽昂·洛萨诺、索菲亚·兰德曼和罗恩·米米斯托共同制作。
Original music in this episode by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Sofia Landman, and Rowan Mimisto.
本集由索尼娅·埃雷罗混音，录音室工作得到了麦迪·马西耶洛和尼克·皮特曼的支持。
This episode was mixed by Sonia Herrero with studio support from Maddie Masiello and Nick Pittman.
特别感谢玛希玛·乔布拉尼、杰弗里·米兰达和保拉·舒曼。
Special thanks to Mahima Choblany, Jeffrey Miranda, and Paula Schuman.
《现代爱情》专栏由丹尼尔·琼斯编辑。
The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones.
米娅·李是《现代爱情》项目的编辑。
Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects.
如果您想向《纽约时报》投稿一篇散文或微型爱情故事，我们的节目说明中会有投稿指南。
If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to The New York Times, we'll have the instructions in our show notes.
我是安娜·马丁。
I'm Anna Martin.
感谢收听。
Thanks for listening.
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