本集简介
双语字幕
仅展示文本字幕,不包含中文音频;想边听边看,请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
我一直在读弗兰克的书。
I've been reading Frank's book.
他说战争即将来临,詹姆斯·弗雷泽会在战争中死去。
He says war is coming and that James Fraser dies in it.
这部震撼世界的开创性系列剧
The groundbreaking series that captivated the world
当我触摸那些石头时,这不是一个选择。
When I touched those stones, it wasn't a choice.
迎来了它的史诗般结局。
Comes to its epic conclusion.
我注定要在这里。
I am meant to be here.
没有任何事能让你为它的结局做好准备。
Nothing can prepare you for how it ends.
我始终相信我们。
I have faith in us always.
《外乡人》最终季将于3月6日首播。
The final season of Outlander premieres March 6.
我们能相遇,简直是个奇迹。
It's no small miracle that we found each other.
仅在Stars平台播出。
Only on stars.
嗨,现代爱情的听众们。
Hey, modern love listeners.
我们正在收集父母离异人士的故事,并有一个问题。
We're looking for stories from people with divorced parents, and we've got a question.
当你的父母离婚时,是哪个时刻让你真正意识到这件事?
What's the moment when your parents' divorce really sunk in?
不是他们告诉你他们要分开的那一刻,而是你真正感受到生活已截然不同、并将永远不同的那一刻。
Not necessarily when they told you they were separating, but the moment where it really hit you, and you realized my life is different, and it's always going to be different.
告诉我们你的顿悟时刻,并访问nytimes.com/divorcedparents获取所有投稿详情。
Tell us about your moment of realization and find all the submission details by visiting nytimes.com/divorcedparents.
这个链接也在我们的节目笔记中。
That link is also in our show notes.
我们非常期待听到你的故事。
We can't wait to hear from you.
来自《纽约时报》,我是安娜·马丁。
From The New York Times, I'm Anna Martin.
这是《现代爱情》。
This is Modern Love.
当我约会时,总感觉别人在不断告诉我一定要玩得开心。
When I was dating, I felt like people were always telling me to have fun.
老实说,这让我很恼火,因为我觉得这根本一点都不好玩。
And frankly, that ticked me off because I was like, this is not fun at all.
我总是感到困惑,不确定对方是否喜欢我,不确定我们是否想要同样的东西,又害怕对方会突然消失。
I'm constantly confused, wondering if the person likes me, not sure if we want the same thing, terrified they're ghosting me.
那有什么好玩的?
Like, what is fun about that?
今天的文章来自丹尼·阿加西。
Today's essay is by Denny Agassi.
丹尼做到了我永远做不到的事。
Denny managed to do what I never could.
她真的在约会中感到快乐。
She was actually having fun dating.
她一直在约会软件上,和男生约会,而且真的过得很开心。
She was on the apps, hooking up with guys, and genuinely having a good time.
直到她遇到了一个让她想要更多的男人。
Until she met this one guy who made her want more.
丹尼,欢迎来到《现代爱情》。
Denny, welcome to Modern Love.
你好。
Hello.
你好。
Hello.
我听说你刚过完生日。
I heard you just celebrated a birthday.
谁告诉你的?
Who told you?
我知道。
I know.
我的一个制作人,我的一个制作人告诉我的。
One of my producers one of my producers did.
你多大了?
How old are you?
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
我26岁。
I'm 26.
26岁。
26.
好的。
Alright.
那么,丹尼,你写了一篇关于某个在你生命中停留时间不长的人的文章
So, Denny, you wrote an essay about someone who wasn't in your life
但他帮助你认识到在一段关系中你值得拥有什么,以及你的价值所在。
for long, but who helped you realize what you deserve in a relationship, what you're what you're worth.
我想从故事的这个时刻开始讲起
And I wanna start the story when
你刚搬到纽约市。
you just moved to New York City.
你搬到这里时多大年纪?
How old were you when you moved here?
我当时21岁。
I was 21.
我刚本科毕业,就直接去读了福特汉姆大学的硕士课程。
I had just graduated from undergrad, and I went straight to my Fordham master's program.
我当时特别期待能过上像凯莉·布雷萧那样的纽约作家生活,穿着毛衣,生活惬意。
And I was really looking to truly get my Carrie Bradshaw, New York City writer, sweaters in the oven status.
对。
Mhmm.
我发表了人生第一篇文章,主题是过渡期与二手购物之间的关联。
And I had published my first my first ever piece, and it was about the correlation between transitioning and thrift shopping.
对我来说,二手购物意义重大,因为当我过渡时,它不仅容易负担,
Thrifting to me means a lot, you know, because when I was transitioning, it was, like, not only accessible.
给这些旧衣服第二次生命,仿佛也给了我自己另一个机会,重新开始,
It felt like giving these old clothes a second chance felt like it felt in tandem with myself, giving myself, you know, another chance of Mhmm.
去探索我想如何在这个世界中前行。
Of figuring out how I wanted to move through the world.
因此,我带着一种心态离开大学:我只是想好好享受21岁的时光。
And so I had sort of left undergrad with this mentality of, I just wanna enjoy being 21.
那年夏天,我第一次下载了Grindr。
I got Grindr for the first time that summer.
我根本没打算约会。
I was not even looking to date.
我真的很乐意去别人的公寓见面。
I really was okay with meeting people at their apartments.
我带着明确的目的去的。
I was there with a mission.
目的是什么?
What was the mission?
性。
Sex.
是的。
Mhmm.
那时我开始意识到,很多个人资料都是空白的。
That's when I started to learn that a lot of the times, profiles were blank.
我觉得这足以让我明白,至少在那些被女性吸引的男性和身为跨性别者的女性之间,存在着某种文化上的羞耻感。
And I think that was enough to let me know that there was some sort of a cultural shame, you know, at least with guys who are attracted to women and women who are also trans.
你能再多说一点吗,关于你认为空白个人资料意味着什么?
Tell me a little bit more about what you understood a blank profile meant.
这让我觉得他们不想被人认识。
Well, it communicated to me that that they didn't wanna be known.
你的个人资料是空白的吗?
Was your profile blank?
不是。
No.
我有几张照片。
I had a few pictures.
是的。
Yeah.
我的个人简介写的是:欢迎跨性别者,发照片来聊天。
My bio was be trans friendly, send face to chat.
所以通常当男生给我发消息时,他们都会先发一张照片。
And so usually when when guys message me, they would send them a picture first.
当我刚搬来的时候,大概有三四个人我轮流约会,他们都非常好。
And when I had first moved, there were probably, like, three or four guys I was seeing in rotation, and they were really lovely.
你约完会后感觉怎么样?
How were you feeling post hookup?
在Grindr的语境下,在 hookup 和作为纽约市一名性活跃的跨性别女性的背景下。
In the scope of Grindr, in the scope of hooking up and being a sexually active trans woman in New York City.
我觉得自己表现得特别棒。
I felt like I was doing I was slaying.
四到五个人。
Four to five.
是的。
Yeah.
你确实如此。
You were.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我认为我不容易产生感情是因为总有一个让我犹豫的地方。
And I think it was easy for me to not get attached because there was always one hang up.
也许他们的某部分性格我并不真的被吸引,或者他们只是比我理想中的年龄稍大一点。
Maybe there was a part of their personality I didn't really feel attracted to, or maybe they were just a little bit older than I would have preferred.
但总有一条理由让我可以说:是的。
But there was always one thread that I could say, yeah.
也许如果你是我约会的对象,这并不是最好的选择。
Maybe this is not the best if I were to date you.
对。
Right.
就是因为这一点,这段关系不会成功。
It's not gonna work out because of this thing.
这段关系不会成功的。
It's not gonna work out.
但我想,也许几小时后,也许几天后,会有一种回落感,我会感到有点空虚。
But I think there there comes to a point, maybe it's hours later, maybe it's days later, that there is a comedown, and I sort of feel a bit emptier.
所以,我内心可能有一点好奇,心想:好吧。
And so maybe there is a bit of curiosity in me that's like, okay.
如果情况稍微不一样会怎样?
What if it was a little different?
因为我确实有点好奇。
Because I did wonder a little bit.
这是我的凯莉·布拉德肖时刻。
This is my Carrie Bradshaw moment.
我好奇,拥有更多会是什么样子。
I wondered what would it look like to have something more.
然后你遇到了这个人
And then you meet this one
男人。
guy.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时在卧室里。
I was in my bedroom.
我正在做作业。
I was doing homework.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我收到一条消息。
I had a message.
有一张自拍。
There was a selfie.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我当时想,哇。
And I was like, wow.
他真的好帅。
He is really cute.
天啊。
Oh my god.
描述一下他长什么样。
Describe what he looked like.
好的。
Okay.
他穿着一件灰色的长曲棍球衫,我想那应该是他高中的校服。
So he's wearing a gray lacrosse shirt, and I think it must have been his high school.
嗯。
Mhmm.
他带着一丝狡黠的微笑,嗯。
And he had a bit of a smirk Mhmm.
凌乱的浅棕色头发。
Messy, light brown hair.
我想,这个家伙真的非常可爱。
And I thought, this guy is actually really adorable.
所以他发给你的第一条消息就是那张照片。
So his first message to you was just the photo.
他有说什么吗?
Did he say anything?
他说了声‘你好’。
He said, hello.
好的。
Okay.
你知道的,还带了个笑脸。
You know, with smiley face.
嗯。
Mhmm.
听好了。
And listen.
和其他我收到的消息相比,对吧。
With compared to the other messages I've been getting Right.
那可能是最温馨的一条。
That was probably the most wholesome one.
有意思。
Interesting.
现在回想起来有点难过。
Sad in retrospect.
但我记得我当时说,像是个打长曲棍球的男孩,我明白了。
But I think I had said, like, a lacrosse boy, I see.
他让我立刻就觉得,这是一个跟我特别调皮的人。
And he was someone who immediately I could characterize as someone who is really playful with me.
对我来说,这非常有吸引力。
And to me, that was really attractive.
你还记得他的个人资料长什么样吗?
Do you remember what his profile looked like?
是空白的。
It was blank.
好的。
Okay.
除了他的年龄,其他都是空白的。
It was blank other than his age.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
上面写着22岁。
It it said 22.
是的。
Yeah.
他告诉我:‘顺便说一下,我叫杰克。’
And he tells me, I'm Jack, by the way.
我说:‘我叫斯蒂尼。’
And I said, my name is Steny.
然后我们交换了电话号码,嗯。
And then we exchanged numbers Mhmm.
那天晚上。
That night.
他总是会主动发起聊天,嗯。
And he would always, like, sort of initiate conversation Mhmm.
还会收到一些消息,比如‘你真漂亮’或者‘你太可爱了’。
And getting messages like, you're really pretty or you're so cute.
嗯。
Mhmm.
一切都非常简单,我觉得我真正喜欢的是,这种感觉真的再普通不过了。
It was really simple, and I think what I really liked was just honestly how ordinary it felt.
你知道吗?
You know?
但后来你和杰克终于见面了,你的文章里也写到了你们第一次外出约会的情景。
But then you and Jack did eventually meet up, and you have a part of your essay about the first time you hung out.
你能读一下吗?
Can you read that?
是的。
Yeah.
杰克第一次来我家的下午。
The first afternoon Jack came over.
他欣赏我的浴缸,双手捧着杯子喝水。
He admired my bathtub and drank his cup of water with two hands.
他穿着米色大衣和长围巾,举止优雅,让我想起了《早餐俱乐部》里的约翰·班德勒,感觉很好。
His poised demeanor in a beigual peacoat and long scarf reminded me, in a good way, of John Bender in the breakfast club.
在我卧室里,他盯着我那黄色的电力战士玩偶。
In my bedroom, he fixated on my yellow Power Ranger figurines.
他注意到窗台上它们旁边挂着我的学术奖状。
He noticed my framed academic award next to them on the windowsill.
我们坐在我的床上,我背靠着墙。
We sat on my bed, my back leaning against the wall.
他把头歪靠在我髋部,双臂环住我的腰。
He sloshed his head onto my hip and wrapped his arms around my waist.
我觉得这有点奇怪。
This is weird, I thought.
我之前的约会大多不拥抱,也不表达感情。
My hookups were mostly no cuddling, no expressions of affection.
我亲了他一下,然后翻身骑到他身上。
I kissed him and rolled on top.
我脱掉衬衫,他紧紧抱住我。
I took off my shirt, and he hugged me tight.
他把脸埋进我的胸口,说:我喜欢你。
His face dug into my chest as he said, I like you.
我觉得你真的很酷。
I think you're really cool.
我不确定自己真实的感觉,便说:哦,我觉得你也很酷。
Unsure how I actually felt, I said, oh, I think you're really cool too.
当他告诉你‘我喜欢你’的时候,你感到意外吗?
Were you caught off guard when he said I like you?
我当时就想,你这是在干什么?
I was like, what are you doing?
告诉我你当时心里在想什么。
Tell me what was going through your mind.
老实说,一开始我对他这么坦诚感到很惊讶。
Well, at first, I was honestly surprised by his honesty.
那时候,我其实很少遇到能如此直接表达感受的男生。
At that point, I I didn't really have that much experience with with guys who are really in touch with just expressing Mhmm.
他们当时的真实感受。
How they felt in the moment.
是的。
Mhmm.
你知道,这个男生此刻正在我身下。
You know, this guy is underneath me.
这就是他说的。
This is and this is what he says.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这有点令人敬畏,但同时也……
It was a bit of an awe, but also,
嗯。
Mhmm.
关于你提到的,你们最初见面时,你隐约觉得这可能不仅仅是一次约炮。
And in terms of the, you know, you said that initially when you met him, there was some sort of inkling that maybe this could be something other than a hookup.
是的。
Yeah.
当他看到我的学术奖时,他问了我关于奥尼塔,就是纽约州立大学奥尼塔分校。
So when he was looking at my academic award, he had asked Oneonta, like, SUNY Oneonta.
我当时就说,是的。
And I was like, yeah.
他说:‘哦,我去过波茨坦。’
He said, oh, I went to Potsdam.
这些学校离得近吗?
Are those schools close?
是的。
Yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
我有很多朋友在波茨坦。
I had multiple friends at Potsdam.
所以,他不仅长得特别帅,而且很真诚,和我同龄,我几乎找不到以往和其他男生相处时那种隔阂了。
And so now not only was he really cute and sincere, My age, I was really, like, struggling to find that hang up that I usually had with other guys.
而现在,我们的社交圈有共同的朋友,彼此的生活产生了交集,那一刻我心想:天啊,这个男人不仅不再是个陌生人,他还理解我的世界观,因为某种程度上,他也生活在其中。
And for now to have mutual friend groups for our social circles to collide, There was a moment where I was like, oh my gosh, this guy is not only not a stranger to me anymore, but he understands, like, my perspective of of my universe because in some ways, he lives in it too.
感觉真的很强烈。
It felt really intense.
但我记得,他看起来真的很酷。
But I remember, like, seeing how cool he looked.
你知道,他穿着一件棕色的羊毛短大衣。
You know, he had that, like, brown wool pea coat.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
他还穿着一件二手的毛衣。
And he had he had a thrifted sweater on.
你知道,我对二手购物特别有好感。
And, you know, I have a very soft spot for thrifting.
听起来,通过这件毛衣和波茨坦,你一直在把你和杰克联系起来。
It sounds like though with the sweater and with the Potsdam, you're drawing all these connections between you and Jack.
你们某种程度上生活在相似的世界里。
You sort of are inhabiting similar worlds.
不仅仅是相似的世界。
Not only similar worlds.
感觉我们生活在同一个世界里,你知道的,考虑到我们朋友的圈子,还有我们的年龄,是的。
It it felt like we were occupying the same ones, you know, given the friends that we had, given our age Mhmm.
而且他和我有多亲近。
And how close he was to me.
你以前和遇到的其他人有过这种感觉吗?
Had you felt that way with someone that you'd met up with?
没有。
Mm-mm.
没有。
No.
那之后你希望再见到他吗?
Did you wanna see him again after that?
哦,立刻就想。
Oh, immediately.
杰克也想再见到丹尼,休息过后事情就升级了。
Jack wanted to see Denny again too, and things escalate after the break.
这部开创性的系列剧曾风靡全球
The groundbreaking series that captivated the world
当我触摸那些石头时,这并非一个选择。
When I touched those stones, it wasn't a choice.
它迎来了史诗般的结局。
Comes to its epic conclusion.
我们能够相遇,简直是个小小的奇迹。
It's no small miracle that we found each other.
《外乡人》最终季。
The final season of Outlander.
立即在Starz平台观看。
Watch now, only on Starz.
这是A.G.苏尔茨伯格。
This is AG Sulzberger.
我是《纽约时报》的出版人。
I'm the publisher of The New York Times.
我负责监督我们的新闻业务和商业运营。
I oversee our news operations and our business.
但我也曾是一名记者,目睹了近年来我们这个行业不断萎缩,感到非常担忧。
But I'm also a former reporter who has watched with a lot of alarm as our profession has shrunk and shrunk in recent years.
通常,在这些广告中,我们会谈论订阅《纽约时报》的重要性。
Normally, in these ads, we talk about the importance of subscribing to The Times.
今天,我想传达一个不同的信息。
I'm here today with a different message.
我鼓励你们支持任何致力于原创报道的新闻机构。
I'm encouraging you to support any news organization that's dedicated to original reporting.
如果是你们当地的报纸,那就太好了。
If that's your local newspaper, terrific.
尤其是地方报纸,特别需要你们的支持。
Local newspapers in particular need your support.
如果是其他全国性报纸,那也同样很好。
If that's another national newspaper, that's great too.
如果选择《纽约时报》,我们会用这笔钱派遣记者去挖掘事实和背景信息,这些是人工智能永远无法提供的。
And if it's the New York Times, we'll use that money to send reporters out to find the facts and context that you'll never get from AI.
就这样。
That's it.
不是要你点击任何链接。
Not asking you to click on any link.
只是订阅一家拥有真实记者、进行第一手事实报道的新闻机构。
Just subscribe to a real news organization with real journalists doing firsthand fact based reporting.
如果你已经这样做了,谢谢。
And if you already do, thank you.
所以你和杰克又见面了。
So you and Jack hang out again.
但这次你让他留宿了?
But this time, you let him sleep over?
嗯。
Uh-huh.
是的
Yeah.
而且我经历了严重的恐慌发作。
And I had a full blown panic attack.
不可能。
No way.
对。
Yeah.
我一夜没睡。
I didn't sleep.
好吧。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
我出了一身汗,他也很暖和。
I was sweating so much, and he was also so warm.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我一直以为过夜聚会特别可爱、有趣,而且完全不会出汗。
And I was sort of under this assumption that sleepovers were really cute and fun and totally not sweaty.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我刚起床,坐在浴室里待了一会儿。
And I just got out of bed, sat in my bathroom for a bit.
但那种恐慌感,是因为你以一种非常亲密的方式让别人进入了你的世界吗?
The panic, though, was it sort of like was the panic because you'd let someone into your world in this really intimate way?
是的。
Yeah.
独自睡觉对我来说是非常神圣的。
Sleeping alone was really sacred.
所以,这是我试图看看,如果我邀请并让某人进入这个空间,会是什么样子。
And so this was my attempt to sort of I wanted to see what it would look like to invite and and let someone into that.
是什么让他让你想让他留下来过夜?
What about him made you want him to sleep over?
他身上有什么让你觉得足够安心,愿意让他这么做?
What was it about him that made you feel comfortable enough to let him do that?
我觉得老实说,可能有一点绝望和迫切,因为我经历了一些非常美好的事情,然后自私地只想再多感受一些,嗯。
I think honestly, I think there might have been a bit of, like, a desperation and an urgency of having experienced something really lovely and, you know, selfishly just wanting more of it Mhmm.
立刻。
Immediately.
你想要更多的是什么?
What was that something you wanted more of?
我觉得那和浪漫有点相关,但又不完全是。
I think somewhere tangential to to romance, for sure.
是的。
Yeah.
你的文章有一部分就是关于那个夜晚的。
Part of your essay is about that night.
你能读一下吗?
Can you read it?
好的。
Okay.
通常,我和陌生男人的短暂关系都很短暂。
Customarily, my flings with strange men were brief.
这些男人在发生关系前从不留意我的浴缸或教育背景,事后也不会逗留。
The men did not take note of my bathtub or my educational history before sex, and they did not linger after.
我回到床上,被他打鼾的嗡嗡声打扰,但他枕在我枕头上的睡颜却让我心头一震。
I came back into bed, disturbed by the rumble of his snoring, but his sleeping face on my pillow struck me.
第一次,和男人共眠的想法不再只是纯粹的想象。
For the first time, the thought of sharing bed with a man did not come from pure imagination.
我现在有了这个幻想的真实画面。
I now had a real image for this fantasy.
我可以假装杰克是我的男朋友,伸手抚摸他的脸,轻声说:我爱你。
I could pretend Jack was my boyfriend, reach for his face and whisper, I love you.
晚安。
Good night.
然后睡着了,在他的梦里与他相遇,仿佛我们已经这样做过一百次了。
Then fall asleep and meet him somewhere in his dream, as if we had done this a 100 times before.
当你摸着杰克的脸,轻声说‘我爱你’的时候,你是在尝试什么?
What were you trying out when you touched Jack's face, when you whispered, I love you?
是的。
Yeah.
我想,想象那些场景是我面对自己、真正诚实的一种方式,对自己说:好吧,姑娘,你确实正在想和这个男人约会。
I guess picturing those things was my way of facing myself and being really honest and being like, okay, girl, you're thinking about dating this guy.
让我们来探索一下。
Let's explore that.
对我来说,至少能坦率地面对自己,说:好吧,如果你真的想和他约会,那会是什么样子?这感觉非常好。
And for me, it felt really good to be upfront with myself at least and say, Okay, if you want to date him, like, what would it look like?
而到这个时候,你和我甚至还没有讨论过这个 guy 是顺性别者,而你知道,我是个跨性别者这个动态。
And at this point, like you and I have not even been talking about the dynamic that this guy is someone who's cis and, you know, I'm a trans person.
就像,在那一刻,我觉得那根本就不是个问题,你知道的。
Like, even in that moment, like, I don't feel like that was even a thing, you know.
我想我对这种关系模式和公开关系会是什么样子有很多预设的负担。
I think I had a lot of presumed baggage about that kind of a dynamic and and what a public relationship would look like.
但对他来说,感觉真的很,嗯,特别轻松。
But for him, it felt really, yeah, really easy.
这个晚上他留下来过夜,有没有让你觉得彼此更亲近了一些?
Did this night and him sleeping over make you feel a little bit closer?
我确实让自己表现得更亲密一些。
I let myself be a little more affectionate for sure.
你知道,有些晚上,在我的床上只是看YouTube,也许他会亲一下我的脸颊。
You know, like, some nights where in my bed just, like, watching YouTube and, you know, maybe he'll give me a kiss on the cheek.
过夜有时候成了我最期待的事情,就是一起准备睡觉。
And sleepovers became sometimes like the thing I was most excited to do, you know, just like getting ready for bed together.
有一次我正在写我的论文。
And there was one time I was doing my thesis.
所以我一大早就醒了,趴在地板上用笔记本电脑做作业。
So I woke up early and was doing my homework on the ground on my laptop.
然后从眼角余光里,我看到他的手轻轻伸过来,碰了碰我的脸。
And then from the corner of my eye, I see, you know, his hand sort of come up to touch my face.
我本能地抓住他的手,开始亲吻它,还用脸颊蹭着它。
And I had just, out of instinct, you know, took his hand and, you know, started kissing it and, you know, rubbing my cheek with it.
那是我第一次真正跟随杰克那种无意识的温柔举动。
And it was really my first moment of, like, following Jack's suit of thoughtless affection.
当时我并没有多想,但我记得自己心里忍不住想:真不敢相信,居然有人能一直拥有这样的爱。
I mean, in the moment, I didn't think about it, but I do remember feeling like I just can't believe, like, some people like some people, like, really get to experience that, like, all the time.
你知道吗?
You know?
当你说到别人也能拥有这样的爱时
When you say that other people get to have that
对。
Right.
你是说顺性别的人吗?
Do you mean cis people?
对。
Right.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
你之前有过这种体验吗?
Had you felt like you'd experienced that before?
没有。
No.
我对此感到非常感激。
And I felt really grateful for that.
是的。
Yeah.
能够如此信任一个人,并且得到他的信任,与他分享这些,这让我觉得意义非凡。
To, like, trust someone that much and, you know, have his trust in return to share that with.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我逐渐意识到,我本可以拥有这样的经历。
It was something I had sort of realized I could have.
你瞥见了一角。
You got a glimpse.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我感觉我脑海中描绘的那样一种美丽、多彩的关系世界。
I felt like this sort of world I was picturing about what what a beautiful, colorful relationship would look like.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我觉得他正在帮我敲开那扇门,你知道的,我能看到越来越多的东西。
Felt like he was helping me chip that door down, and, you know, I could see more and more.
我当时就想,啊,我开始看到完整的画面了,而且在你的帮助下,我达到了一个可以真正承认我很渴望那样的状态。
And I was like, it's like, I'm starting to see the full picture and think, know, with your help, I'm at a place where I think I can really admit that I want that a lot.
那后来发生了什么?
So what so what happened?
嗯,你知道的,随着时间推移,有时候我会好几天听不到他的消息。
Well, in between, as you know, as the months went on, sometimes I wouldn't hear for a few days.
有时候则会隔上几周。
And then sometimes it would be a few weeks.
然后就一个月。
Then it was a month.
所以,发消息之间的间隔变得越来越
So, like, the space between texting just got, like, bigger and
更长了吗?
bigger?
更长了。
Bigger.
而且我们越走越近,这种感觉让人困惑。
And the way well, like, closer we were getting to That feels confusing.
这种感觉真的很困惑。
And that felt so confusing.
然后就彻底没音讯了。
And then it was crickets.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
你被冷落了,这非常痛苦,因为就在你开始承认自己对杰克有了更多期待的时候,他却退缩了。
You were ghosted, which is so painful because it feels like you were just starting to admit to yourself that you wanted something more from Jack, and that's the moment that he pulls away.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时已经变得很敞开心扉了,但突然间,我只剩下自己一个人面对这一切。
I was at a point where I felt pretty open, and then suddenly I'm alone in it.
我忍不住想,我是不是因为想要这些而显得很可笑?
And I felt like, am I making a fool out of myself for wanting these things?
因为沉默已经向我传递了很多信息。
Because the silence is telling me a lot.
然后,事情发展到一个地步,我干脆接受了它,心想:这大概会成为我一生背负的东西。
And then it just got to a point where I sort of just embraced it and said, I think it's just gonna be something that I carry with me.
嗯。
Mhmm.
展开剩余字幕(还有 26 条)
你知道吗,我出生并成长于印度尼西亚,而现在我住在美國的时间已经比在岛上生活的时间还要长了。
You know, like, I was born and raised in Indonesia, and I'm at a point now where I've lived in The States longer than I have back on the islands.
据我所知,在这里,我们处理悲伤的方式是把自己孤立起来。
And from what I know here with, how we grieve is that we sort of isolate ourselves.
我们在那一刻把所有情绪都埋藏起来,然后继续过自己的生活。
We bury it all in in that moment in time, and then we move forward with our lives.
我对杰克就是这样做的,起初有效,但后来就不行了。
And I did that with Jack and it worked until it didn't.
所以,去接受治疗是我用来梳理所有那些痛苦,以及他让我体验到的美好回忆的方式,你知道的。
So going into therapy was my way of undinking all of that pain and all of the the nice things that he allowed me to experience, you know.
尽管我和杰克在一起的时间,就像一闪而过的瞬间,但我对他让我经历的这一切心怀感激。
And even though, you know, my time with Jack was, like, just a blip, I have a lot of gratitude for what he allowed me to experience.
让我感到非常震撼的是,你从中带走的竟然是感恩之情,是的。
It's really striking to me that gratitude is the thing Yeah.
这就是你从这段经历中带走的东西。
That you're taking from this.
就像你说的,那些美好的事物、那些你能够体验到的美好时刻和情感。
Like you said, these beautiful things, these beautiful moments and emotions that you could experience.
与他一起经历这些,让你对日后能否再体验到类似感受有了什么新的认识?
What did experiencing those with him tell you about the possibility of experiencing them later on?
我觉得这让我明白,如果我希望别人以某种方式对待我,那我最好先这样对待自己。
I think it's taught me, like, if I want someone to treat me a certain way, I better be doing it already to myself first.
但同时也让我明白,跨性别并不是障碍,想要更多是完全没问题的。
But also, it's taught me that being trans is not a hang up, that it's okay to want more.
丹妮说,她与杰克的经历让她对一段认真的关系更加敞开心扉。
Denny says her experience with Jack has made her more open to a relationship, a serious one.
她清楚自己想要什么,并且愿意坦然地表达出来。
She has clarity on what she wants, and she's comfortable asking for it.
这是我们这一季的最后一集。
This is the last episode of our season.
我们会休息一段时间,然后在五月底带着全新的剧集回来。
We're gonna take a little break, and then we'll be back in late May with all new episodes.
《现代爱情》由艾丽莎·达德利、朱莉娅·博特罗、克里斯蒂娜·约瑟和汉斯·布托制作。
Modern Love is produced by Elissa Dudley, Julia Botero, Christina Jose, and Hans Buto.
本节目由莎拉·萨拉森剪辑。
It's edited by Sarah Saracen.
我们的执行制片人是詹·波安特。
Our executive producer is Jen Poiant.
本集由索菲亚·兰德曼混音,我们的节目由马迪·马西洛录制。
This episode was mixed by Sofia Landman, and our show was recorded by Maddie Masiello.
《现代爱情》的主题音乐由丹·鲍威尔创作。
The modern love theme music is by Dan Powell.
数字制作由马希玛·乔布兰尼和埃尔·加洛格利负责。
Digital production by Mahima Choblany and El Galogli.
《现代爱情》专栏由丹尼尔·琼斯编辑。
The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones.
米娅·李是《现代爱情项目》的编辑。
Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects.
我是安娜·马丁。
I'm Anna Martin.
感谢收听。
Thank you for listening.
关于 Bayt 播客
Bayt 提供中文+原文双语音频和字幕,帮助你打破语言障碍,轻松听懂全球优质播客。