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我叫托马斯·吉贝森。
My name is Thomas Gibbesenf.
我是《纽约时报》的一名记者。
I'm a journalist at The New York Times.
我曾在美国海军陆战队担任步兵。
I served in the Marine Corps as an infantryman.
在前线报道时，我认为没有什么比与相关人员交谈更重要的了，你知道，倾听他们的故事，并将这些故事与数千英里之外的人们联系起来。
When it comes to reporting on the front line, I think nothing is more important than talking to the people involved, you know, hearing their stories and being able to connect that with people thousands of miles away.
任何能让这种报道更富人情味的事情，我认为都值得冒这个风险。
Anything that can make something like this more personal, I think, is well worth the risk.
《纽约时报》的订阅者让我们能够持续进行这项重要的报道。
New York Times subscribers make it possible for us to keep doing this vital coverage.
如果你想订阅，可以访问 @nytimes.com/subscribe。
If you'd like to subscribe, you can do that @nytimes.comslashsubscribe.
大家好。
Hey, everyone.
我是安娜。
It's Anna.
在节目开始前，我最后一次回来，想请大家分享今年情人节期间最浪漫的举动故事。
Before we start the show, I'm back for the last time to ask for your stories about romantic gestures for this year's Valentine's Day episode.
我们想知道，你曾经经历过、看到过或见证过的最浪漫的事情是什么。
We wanna know the most romantic thing that's ever happened to you that you've ever experienced, that you've ever seen or witnessed.
无论是大型浪漫喜剧式的举动，还是私密而温馨的小细节，我们都想听。
Whether it's a big rom com style gesture or something small and private and sweet, we wanna hear about it.
到目前为止，我们已经收到了很多人的分享，非常期待听到更多故事。
We've heard from so many of you so far, and we can't wait to hear more.
但我得说，我们收到了大量来自女性的投稿。
But I will just say we've gotten a lot of submissions from women.
爱你们，女孩们。
Love you, girls.
谢谢。
Thank you.
但我们还想听到其他人的声音。
But we wanna hear from everyone else too.
所以，男性、非二元性别者、非女性的人，我们特别期待听到你们的故事。
So men, nonbinary folks, people who aren't women, we're especially excited to hear from you.
无论是什么样的时刻——无论是盛大的举动还是微小的瞬间——让你感受到浪漫的悸动，我们都想听，也想知道它为什么对你来说如此浪漫。
Whatever made you feel that rush of romance from the big moments to the tiny ones, we wanna hear about it, and we wanna know why it was so romantic to you.
如果你有故事，可以录一段语音备忘录，发送到 modernlovepodcast@nytimes.com，截止日期是2月4日，我们的节目可能会选用你的故事。
If you have a story in mind, record a voice memo and email it to us at modernlovepodcast@nytimes.com by February 4, and we may use your story on the show.
邮箱是 modernlovepodcast@nytimes.com。
That's modernlovepodcast@nytimes.com.
再次提醒，你们的截止日期快到了。
And once again, your deadline is approaching.
2月4日。
It's February 4.
好的。
Alright.
谢谢大家。
Thanks, everyone.
我们迫不及待想听到你们的故事。
We can't wait to hear from you.
爱，从今往后。
Love now and tomorrow.
加入我们吧。
Fall in
爱，上次我爱过。
love last time I love.
爱比任何事物都更强大。
Love is stronger than anything.
为了爱，爱。
For the love Love.
我能更爱你吗
Can I love you more than
什么？
anything?
爱。
Love.
这仅仅是爱。
It's just love.
爱。
Love.
来自《纽约时报》，我是安娜·马丁。
From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin.
这是现代爱情。
This is modern love.
今天，我将与一位喜剧演员交谈，他陷入了一个非常不好笑的境地。
Today, I'm talking to a comedian who found himself in a very unfunny situation.
他叫乔丹·卡洛斯。
His name is Jordan Carlos.
乔丹自己也不以此为荣，但多年来，他一直认为，既然自己在外面拼命赚钱养家，家里就一件家务都不用做。
And Jordan's really not proud of this, but for years, he thought that because he was out there hustling so hard to make money for his family, he didn't have to do a single chore at home.
他也不需要参与抚养两个孩子的日常事务。
He also didn't have to be involved in the day to day of raising his two kids.
不用。
No.
这些都该由他妻子来做，尽管她自己也有工作。
That was for his wife to do, even though she had a job too.
整个情况最终到了崩溃的边缘。
The whole thing reached a breaking point.
基本上，乔丹必须做出一个选择：要么承担责任，要么失去家人。
And, basically, Jordan had a decision to make, step up or lose his family.
他决定承担责任。
He decided to step up.
乔丹写了一本书，详细记录了他所做的改变，并来到演播室与我交谈，讲述他具体是如何做到的。
Jordan wrote a book all about the changes he made, he joined me in the studio to talk about exactly how he did it.
他还告诉我，为什么了解家里还有多少卫生纸对你们的关系至关重要。
He also told me why it's essential to your relationship to always know how much toilet paper is in the house.
乔丹·卡洛斯，欢迎来到《现代爱情》。
Jordan Carlos, welcome to Modern Love.
谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢你邀请我。
Thank you for having me.
我想，可以说每段婚姻都会在分工上有些摩擦。
I think, you know, it's safe to say that every marriage has some friction around the balance of who does what.
打扫、做饭、带孩子、日程管理，还有维持家庭运转。
Cleaning, cooking, kid stuff, calendar management, just keeping up the home.
但听起来，有一段时间你在婚姻中确实做得不够。
But it sounds like for a while there, you were really kinda falling short in your marriage.
是这样吗？
Is that right?
我？
Me?
表现不佳？
Falling short?
好吧。
Okay.
这全在于你怎么看待它。
It's all it's all in how you look at it.
用什么标准？
By what metric?
不。
No.
是的。
Yes.
我确实表现不佳。
I was definitely falling short.
确实表现不佳。
Definitely falling short.
此时此刻，你做了些什么来维持家庭运转？
At this time, what were you doing to keep the household running?
比如，你在日常事务中负责哪些方面？
Like, what was you in your domain in terms of day to day stuff?
天哪。
Oh, dear.
我，等一下。
I, hold on.
这个停顿，我觉得很有信息量。
The pause, I think, is very informative.
正如你所知。
As you well know.
是的。
Yes.
我遛了狗，好吧。
I walked the dog Okay.
有人让我做的时候。
When told to do it.
我送孩子去日托，那地方很远。
I walked the child to daycare, which was far.
那是一段整整七分钟的路程。
That was a whole seven minute walk.
顺便说一下，上坡的那段路，那个婴儿车是Bugaboo牌的，虽然贵但并不怎么样。
And by the way, the stroll up the hill, like, that stroller was it was a bugaboo, and those are expensive but not great.
所以我真的是在拼命干活。
And and so I was really putting in the work.
明白吗？
Okay?
遛狗。
Dog walking.
是的。
Yes.
带着Bugaboo推车送孩子上学。
Walking the kid to school with a bugaboo.
还有呢？
What else?
我倒了一次垃圾。
I took out the trash once.
那还挺棒的。
That was cool.
但我没做多少事。
But I wasn't doing much of anything.
我当时在做的，是赚钱的事。
I was making what I was doing was making money.
对。
Yeah.
我当时在赚钱。
I was making money.
是的。
Yeah.
我是说，再多谈谈这个。
And I mean, talk more about that.
所以，那些大概就是我们在家所能指望的职责了，我想，一只手就能数得过来。
So it's like you you those were the sort of duties we can count on, I guess, on one hand on the home front.
是的。
Yeah.
但你心里想着，我是在养家糊口。
But you were thinking to yourself, I'm bringing home the bacon.
你当时就是这么想的吗？
Was that was that sort of how you were thinking about it?
确实是这样。
It was yeah.
而且我觉得这深深影响了我的很多行为。
And I I think that imbued a lot of, like, my behavior.
对吧？
Right?
我当时就觉得打扫卫生和其他所有家务都跟我没关系。
And I was I just felt like cleaning and all the the rest of the domestic duties didn't apply to me.
我不想被打扰。
I didn't want to be bothered.
而且，我不喜欢那样的人。
And, I don't I don't like that guy.
我不知道。
I don't know.
所以我就
So I
本来想说，你之前提到过，你在家里负责的是养狗和推婴儿车。
was gonna say, like, you know, I asked you a bit earlier, you know, what was in your purview at home, and you mentioned the dog and pushing the bugaboo.
显然还有许多其他的
There are so many, obviously, other
嗯。
Mhmm.
你没有提到的那些家务。
You know, duties you did not name.
是的。
Yes.
比如，做所有饭菜、洗所有衣服、打扫厕所、清理厨房、清洁冰箱、补给食品储藏室，诸如此类的事情。
For example, cooking all the meals, doing all the laundry, cleaning the toilet, cleaning the kitchen, cleaning the refrigerator, restocking the pantry, you know, certain, you know, things like this.
对。
Yeah.
不过，你确实遛了狗，所以那些事情是怎么处理的呢？
Although, again, you did walk the dog, so think how was that stuff?
所有那些事，在你家里是怎么完成的？
All that stuff, how was that getting done in your house?
有人告诉我，是神奇的小精灵在打扫卫生。
I was told, like, magical sprites were doing doing the cleaning.
有时候就像是牛奶仙子。
Sometimes it would be like the milk fairy.
因为我的妻子会说，哦，又有牛奶了。
Because my my wife would be like, oh, there's more milk.
这牛奶是怎么来的？
How did that get there?
我想是牛奶仙子来的吧。
I guess it was the milk fairy.
或者比如，卫生纸快用完了，她会说，大概是厕纸仙子来过了。
Or it's like, you know, the TP would run low, she'd be like, I guess the toilet paper fairy came.
她会这么说。
She would say this.
是的。
Yes.
她在开玩笑，但那其实是被动攻击，我能感受到怨气在上升，是的。
And she was making jokes, but that was, like, passive aggressive, and I could feel the resentment rising Sure.
每年她讲这些笑话时，这种感觉都会越来越强烈。
With each passing year when she'd make these bits, these jokes.
她一直在补货。
And she was restocking.
她一直在跟踪记录所有这些东西。
She was keeping track of all these things.
我们需要为下周、下个月准备的东西，是的。
What we needed to get through the next week, month Sure.
不管是什么东西。
Whatever it was.
对吧？
Right?
她时刻关注着未来的发展。
She had her eyes out in her her eyes on the horizon.
我只是，你知道的，做不到。
I I just did not, you know?
那么从家庭日常事务的角度来看，这些事情似乎是无穷无尽的。
And what about in terms of it's sort of the the logistics of a home, which are
嗯。
Mhmm.
看似没完没了。
Infinite seeming.
是的。
Yes.
那养孩子呢？
What about with raising the kids?
我的意思是，你提到过预约之类的事情。
I mean, you mentioned appointments and stuff.
她还负责处理这些事。
She was also she was handling that.
她是预约小仙女。
She was the appointment fairy.
她是预约小仙女。
She was the appointment fairy.
她知道孩子们的衣服和鞋码，因为它们一直在变，我的意思是，这可不是我的错。
She knew the size of the children's clothes, the shoe sizes, because they change I mean, it's not my fault.
这些孩子的脚长得太快了。
These kids' feet grow and grow and grow.
但确实如此。
But Yeah.
说实话，她会一直记录鞋码。
Seriously, she would keep track of the size of the shoes.
因为她有一群妈妈朋友，她们会互相帮忙，比如我家孩子穿不下的鞋子，我就送给别人，别人也送给我。
And because she had a cadre of moms, they would do this kind of, like, wonderful mutual aid thing where if my kid outgrew some shoes, I'd give them to another person, another person.
所以我家孩子能轮着穿其他孩子的衣服，但你得知道孩子具体穿多大码。
And so my kids got this heavy rotation of clothes from other kids, but you had to know what size the children would be.
那只是我……我只是在一旁看着这一切发生。
And that just was I I just was not I was watching that go by.
我当时说不上来。
I couldn't tell you at the time.
另外，关于和孩子相处的时间，哪怕不是情感层面的，就是单纯花时间陪他们。
In terms of too, like, sort of the maybe more, like, emotional or not even emotional, like, were spending time with your kids.
对吧？
Right?
比如，你和他们相处的时间质量怎么样？
Like, what was the quality of the time that you were spending with them?
我觉得那段时间并不好。
I don't think it was good.
我觉得那段时间并不好。
I don't think it was it was good.
我觉得我对他们很不耐烦。
I think I was very short with them.
有一些我想做的活动，比如说带孩子们去。
There were activities that I wanted to do Say that.
我可以当个有趣的爸爸。
That I would take the kids on, and then I could be fun dad.
比如哪些？
Like what?
比如去中央公园，或者去大都会艺术博物馆。
Like, let's go to Central Park or maybe the Met.
然后之后，你知道，我们就在戴伦的糖果店附近。
And then after that, you know, we're near Dylan's candy shop.
对吧？
Right?
天哪。
Oh my god.
但接着我们还得去街角的塞伦迪皮蒂三号结束这一天。
But then we need to finish that off with Serendipity three, which is right down the block.
然后，哦，
And then, oh,
那又是另一家糖果店吗？
Is is that another candy shop?
那不是。
That's no.
抱歉。
Sorry.
那是一家冰淇淋店。
That is an ice cream shop.
好的。
Okay.
我不会让《纽约时报》报道虚假信息。
I will not have The New York Times reporting lies.
好吧。
Alright.
所以我希望我的孩子们脑子里能留下印象，他们的爸爸特别有趣。
So I wanted my kids to have burn on their brain that their dad was so much fun.
为什么？
Why?
我还在努力实现这一点。
Still working on that.
因为我小时候没能做那些事。
Because I didn't get to do those things as a kid.
我小时候没能做那些事，我想让我的孩子们了解我有趣的一面，我希望他们能感受到，我想弥补自己当年更像是表演者而不是实干家的遗憾。
I didn't get to do those things as a kid, and I wanted my kids to know my fun side, and I wanted them, I think, to I wanted to make up for the fact that I was more like the show pony and not the workhorse.
我什么都有——铃铛、哨子，还有那些……呃，不是那种烟花。
I had all the bells and the whistles and, you know, the poppers and and not not those kind of poppers.
我说的是焰火。
I'm talking about fireworks.
所以，我想我就是想成为那样的人。
So so, like, that's what I was trying to be.
我其实是在表演。
And I was I was I was performing, really.
为我的孩子们表演。
Performing for my kids.
但我在想象把这个故事继续下去。
But then I'm imagining sort of continuing that story.
是的。
Yes.
你度过了精彩的一天后回到家。
You arrive home after this amazing day.
你不再扮演有趣的角色了。
You're done being fun.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，没错。
And well, yes.
因为接下来那个负责调节气氛的‘海绵’就出场了，她得基本上管住这一切。
Because then the fun sponge comes along, and she basically has to, like, regulate what's going on.
对吧？
Right?
因为我把他们都搞得兴奋过头了，全是糖分。
Because I've got them all hopped up on sugar.
对吧？
Right?
也许有人还有作业没做。
And maybe maybe somebody's got homework.
有人需要换尿布。
Somebody needs changing.
比如，得洗澡了。
Like, baths need to be taken.
如果你是那个负责逗乐的家长，你会叫她什么
And you call her the you're if you're the fun parent
是的
Yeah.
你的妻子成了那个扫兴的人。
Your wife became the fun sponge.
对。
Yes.
她把所有的乐趣都吸走了。
She was sucking all the fun out.
她就像乐趣警察，我们都不喜欢这样。
She was like the fun police, and we didn't like that.
你知道的吧？
You know?
她总是会说：喂。
Like, she'd always be like, yo.
喂。
Yo.
这些孩子啊，是的。
Like, these kids yeah.
必须这样，不然就过了睡觉时间了。
Have to be Or it's past bedtime.
你知道的，我们早就越过这条线了。
You know, we blew through that.
你知道吧？
You know?
你说过她会讲笑话，比如马桶纸精灵来了之类的。
Did did you you said that she'd make jokes, you know, oh, the toilet paper fairy came or whatever.
是的。
Yeah.
你还记得你们有没有认真谈过这件事吗？
Do you remember conversations where you really talked about this?
甚至可能吵过架。
Maybe even a fight.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
因为她总是说我很孤单。
Because she was always saying that I'm alone.
哇。
Wow.
我一个人在做这一切。
I'm doing this alone.
这会让我很受刺激。
And that would be triggering for me.
因为我觉得在这段关系中，我承担了所有这些，我负责喜剧创作。
Because I felt like in this partnership, I was doing all of that I was doing, the comedy.
我为我们的生活提供了所有这些。
I was providing all this stuff for us.
她却说她一个人，这让我觉得这样说不公平，真的伤了我的自尊，很明显。
And for her to say that she was alone just made me feel I felt it was unfair to say, and it just it hurt my ego, obviously.
我对此非常在意。
I would take such issue with it.
我讨厌这样。
I hated it.
你还记得吗？当她说‘我一个人在做这件事’时，你当时会怎么回应？
Do you remember what you said what you would say back if she said I'm doing this alone?
我会说你并不孤单。
I I would say that you're not alone.
这不对。
That's not true.
我只会说那不是真的。
I would just say that it wasn't true.
我不会听进去。
I wouldn't listen.
我根本不会听。
I wouldn't listen at all.
我只是会反驳她所说的话。
I just I would refute what she was saying.
我会说，我简直是在拿命拼。
I would say that, like, I'm killing myself.
我到处去俱乐部，去大学。
I'm going to all these clubs, these colleges.
我一直在路上。
I'm on the road.
我做这一切都是为了这个家。
I'm doing it all for this family.
我根本没有时间喘口气。
And I just didn't have time to take a breath.
我不想听这些。
I didn't wanna hear about it.
我觉得那是对当时情况的错误判断。
I thought that was just the wrong assessment of what was going on.
你知道的。
You know?
我会生气，因为我希望她能明白，这是在喜剧领域取得成就所要付出的代价。
I would get upset because I I wanted her to understand that this is the price of achieving something in comedy.
这就是现实，就是这样。
This is what this is what it is.
你知道的。
You know?
这就是你当初选择接受的。
This is what you bought into.
我有时会遇到这样的情况：在我出发前，我们刚吵了一架，可能是因为我还没做某件事，但我必须离开去演出脱口秀。
And I'd have these moments where it was like, we get into a fight right before I left, and it was maybe something I hadn't done, and I had to leave to go do a comedy show.
是的。
Yeah.
这真是个艰难的转变。
That's a tough transition.
没错。
Right.
所以在那些争吵中，尤其是在涉及家务、分工或孩子的事情时，如果我得去演出，我会说：谢谢，宝贝。
So in those arguments, at those moments, especially if the argument had to do like, if it was about housework or, division of labor or something with the kids, and I had to go do a show, I'd be like, thanks, babe.
现在我得去逗大家笑了。
Now I gotta go be funny.
是的。
Yeah.
这真的很难。
That is really tough.
我的意思是，这真是
I mean, it's it's
我到底怎么了？
What's the what's the matter with me?
不。
No.
我的意思是，嗯，是的。
I mean I mean, well Yeah.
你知道，我觉得听的人可能会想：我不太喜欢这个家伙。
You know, I think that someone listening might be like, I don't really like this guy.
但我认为，你其实说出了很多人心中想说却不敢说的东西，因为这很脆弱，听起来你像个混蛋。
But but I think that I think that, like, I think you're voicing something that a lot of people don't put voice to because it's very vulnerable because you sound like a dick.
是的。
Yeah.
谢谢。
Thank you.
你确实如此。
You do.
谢谢，但我要说的是，为了让你做出改变，是的。
Thank But this is what I'm saying is, like, I think it's in order for you to make a change Yeah.
我认为诚实地面对你做出改变之前的状态非常重要。
I think it's really important to be honest about where you were before that change.
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
那我们来谈谈，我们来谈谈
So let's talk about let's talk about
顺便说一下，我现在累坏了。
By the way, I'm I'm pitted out at this moment.
我简直不敢相信我刚才说了那些话。
I'm like, I can't believe I said all those things.
不。
No.
对。
Yeah.
正如我所说，我感到很感激，因为你如此坦诚。
This is what I'm I'm I'm feeling grateful, like I said, that you're being honest.
当然。
Sure.
因为我觉得，很多听我们对话的人，可能正处于和你相同的情况。
Because I think this is I think a lot of people listening, they might be the you in this situation.
也许他们是你的妻子，你知道的，在那种情况下，但我认为坦诚面对这一点非常重要。
Maybe they're your wife, you know, in that situation, but I think it's very important to be honest about it.
谢谢。
Thank you.
尤其是因为我们即将转弯。
Especially because we're about to turn.
天啊。
Oh my gosh.
好的。
Okay.
我们马上回来。
We'll be right back.
嗨。
Hey.
我是乔尔。
I'm Joel.
我是朱丽叶。
And I'm Juliet.
我们来自《纽约时报》游戏部。
We're from New York Times games.
我们在这里和人们聊聊游戏。
And we're out here talking to people about games.
你喜欢《纽约时报》的游戏吗？
You like New York Times games?
太棒了。
Love that.
好的。
Okay.
太棒了。
Love.
我每天晚上都和我丈夫一起玩。
I play with my husband every night.
哎呀。
Aw.
我坚决不让他不带我玩。
I refuse to let him play it without me.
你最喜欢的游戏是什么？
What's your favorite game?
FairCrossword。
FairCrossword.
填字游戏。
The crossword.
我和我兄弟一起玩过。
I did it with my brother.
我最喜欢的是迷你模式。
My favorite is the mini.
我们努力在三十秒内完成。
We try and get it under thirty seconds.
你们真是高手。
You're pros.
我通常会发消息给我朋友，问她能不能赢过我，但她从来没赢过。
I usually text my friend and ask her if she can beat me, but she never has.
吃午饭时，公司里很多人都会同时玩同一个游戏。
At lunch, a bunch of people at work will all be doing the same game at the same time.
这里有个叫‘好友’的小标签。
There's this little tab down here called friends.
你可以添加你的朋友。
So you can add your friend.
这对我来说是新的体验。
That feels new to me.
确实是。
It is.
有社交元素真好。
It's nice to have the social aspect.
天哪。
Oh my god.
而且你
And you
能看到他们所有人的成绩。
have all their times.
太疯狂了。
That's crazy.
对吧？
Right?
你可以看看
You can look
拼字游戏、Wordle 和 Connections。
at Spelling Bee, Wordle, Connections.
天哪。
Oh my god.
太棒了。
Amazing.
喜欢这个。
Love that.
我得
I have
下载这个应用。
to get the app.
非常感谢你和我们聊天。
You so much for talking with us.
我真的很享受乐趣。
I really appreciate fun.
你可以在 nytimes.com/games 或我们的应用程序上玩所有《纽约时报》的游戏。
You can play all New York Times games at nytimes.com/games or on our app.
继续玩吧。
Play on.
让我们谈谈是什么让你停下来意识到我的婚姻出了大问题，我必须在为时已晚之前做出改变。
So let's talk about what made you kinda stop and realize something is really off in my marriage, and I need to change really before it's too late.
这比我预想的要严重得多。
Like, this is way more dire than I ever anticipated.
我知道这始于疫情期间。
I know it it started during COVID.
对吧？
Right?
就是这个时候吗？
This was the moment?
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
好的。
Okay.
告诉我关于疫情期间的事。
Tell me about During
疫情期间，一切都停摆了。
COVID, everything stopped.
对吧？
Right?
电视制作完全停止了。
There was no TV production.
没有节目了，一切突然完全停了下来。
There were no shows, and everything came to a screeching halt.
我发现自己在自己的家里像个陌生人。
And I kind of found myself to be a stranger in my own home.
你这话是什么意思？
What do you mean by that?
隐形的？
Invisible?
隐形的。
Invisible.
我的意思是，我能感觉到我不被需要。
I mean, I could I could tell that I wasn't needed.
我是多余的。
I was redundant.
我
I
我就想，好吧。
was like, okay.
我不知道大家上午11点都在做什么。
I don't know what everybody does at 11AM.
我不知道这里的人午餐时间都做些什么。
I don't know what people do for lunch here.
你知道，这到底是什么情况？
You know, what what's the story here?
我通常都不在，你知道的？
I I'm usually gone, you know?
而且我觉得自己马上就要被开除了，你知道的？
And it felt like I was gonna get fired, you know?
从你的家人那里。
From your family.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得自己就要被家人抛弃了。
I felt like I was gonna get fired from my family.
就像我是个累赘。
Like, I was an appendage.
就像我只是个可有可无的存在。
Like I just didn't you didn't need it.
你根本不需要它。
You didn't need it.
这种感觉就像一种潜伏的厄运。
And the feeling is a kind of a lurking doom.
就像表面下有什么东西，像一艘潜艇，正在追捕你，而且正在向你逼近。
Like there's something under the surface, like a submarine, but that's hunting you, And you closing in on you.
而现实是，这个单位没有你也能运转。
And you it's the reality that this unit can get along without you.
也许你们可以尽可能地共同抚养孩子，但长远来看，这件事终将爆发，而你的伴侣，一位非常聪明的女性，会为她自己和孩子们做出正确的选择。
Maybe you could co parent as best you can, but, like, on a long enough timeline, this will come to a head, and a very bright woman, your partner, will will do the right thing by her and her kids.
那是什么？
And what is that?
我们就直接说说那是什么吧。
Let's just say what that
意思。
means.
我觉得是离婚。
I think it's divorce.
是婚姻的解除。
It's dissolution of the marriage.
我们感觉不到任何进展。
It didn't feel like we were going anywhere.
我现在意识到的，或者说我会说的，是音乐停了。
And what I realized now or what I would say was the music turned off.
就像玩音乐椅子游戏一样。
Like, in musical chairs.
确实存在很多问题。
There was definite dysfunctions.
有太多事情在出错，就像一台鲁布·戈德堡机械。
There were so many things going wrong, like a Rube Goldberg machine.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但音乐并没有停止。
But the music had not stopped.
对吧？
Right?
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以当音乐真的停止时，你就看到了问题。
So when it did, you saw the problems.
你看到了那些巨大的漏洞。
You saw the big gaping holes.
我当时忙着做别的事，所以没时间洗衣服。
I would be busy doing something else, so I couldn't do the laundry.
对。
Right.
现在我不忙了。
Now I'm not busy.
对。
Right.
我只是不知道自己的位置。
And I just didn't know my place.
我不清楚自己的位置，这造成了摩擦。
I didn't know my place, and that created friction.
当时有很多沉溺、自怜，对吧？这进一步加剧了家里的矛盾。
There was a lot of, like, wallowing, right, and self pity, and that created more friction in the home.
那我现在还是不洗衣服吗？
And now I'm still not doing the laundry?
那是什么？
What is that?
顺便说一下，她还在教书。
And she's still teaching, by the way.
天哪。
Gosh.
她还在教书。
She's still teaching.
我的意思是，随着我说得越多，我就意识到，我真是个不称职的丈夫。
She's do I mean, I was I was like, now that the more I speak, I'm like, I'm a man baby.
但当时她承担了太多，我现在才看出来，问题的裂缝越来越大。
But, like, it was just like she was taking on so much, and I can see now that the the cracks were getting bigger and bigger.
我们的对话变得越来越严肃，讨论我该做什么，还有和其他丈夫的比较。
The conversations were getting more serious about what I needed to do, how, like, you know, the comparisons with other husbands.
哦。
Oh.
她总是给我讲别人如何分手、如何离婚的故事。
And she was always feeding me stories about how people were breaking up and how people were getting divorced.
你知道吗？
Know?
所以
So
所以
and so
离婚了。
got divorced.
你知道吗？
You know?
这个家伙被甩了，现在住在房车里。
This one got dumped and he's living in a van.
你知道吗？
You know?
我当时想，天哪。
And I was like, oh, man.
我把这些都听进去了。
So I I was taking all that in.
我把这些都听进去了。
I was taking all that in.
当一名喜剧演员唯一的救赎就是你真的会去观察。
I I the the one saving grace to being a comedian is that you do observe.
当然。
Sure.
但有时候如果你必须，你
But sometimes if you gotta, you
知道，当然。
know Sure.
如果你的配偶床头柜上放着埃斯特·佩雷尔的书，那问题就出在你自己身上。
If you gotta if your spouse has Ester Perrell in the nightstand, the call is coming from inside the house.
你必须立刻改变自己的行为。
You need to change your ways immediately.
就像书的封面朝外，朝向你这边。
Like book turn like spine turned out, like, to your side.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
比如旁边放一支荧光笔。
Like, a highlighter next to it.
别开玩笑了。
Come on.
所以，是的，在这段时间里，我们家里也发生了一起很近的离婚事件。
So, yeah, I did also during this period, there was also a divorce very close, like, you know, in our family.
所以我们亲眼目睹了一场离婚。
So we were front row to a divorce.
一场非常糟糕的离婚。
A very ugly divorce.
这太吓人了。
That's very scary.
是的。
Yeah.
听起来在某个时候，你觉得自己必须做出改变了，否则这段婚姻就无法继续了。
It sounds like at some point, you were like, things need to change or this I will not be married.
是的。
Yeah.
事情需要改变，否则我不会结婚。
Things need to change or I will not be married.
那你是怎么
And how did
你知道的，就是突然意识到，这是我需要开始着手处理的问题吗？
you know it's like, oh, this is what I need to start working on?
那是一个加拿大人。
It was a it was it was a Canadian.
真的吗？
Really?
你知道，有这么一位加拿大丈夫。
You know, there's this one Canadian husband.
他是个好人。
He's a sweetheart.
就像在你的朋友群体里吗？
Like in your in your friend group?
在我的布鲁克林的朋友圈里。
In my in my friend group in Brooklyn.
他以每天早上为妻子煮咖啡而闻名。
And he famously famously made coffee for his wife every morning.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们这里说的是一个非常低的标准。
So we're talking about a very low bar here.
他会把咖啡送到床上，女人们都对此赞不绝口。
And he would bring it to her in bed, and the ladies would rave about it.
哇。
Wow.
所以我的意思是，想想看这个标准有多低
So I I mean, just think just think about how low that
我本来想
I was gonna
完全没错。
totally.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
那只是布斯特洛咖啡。
And it was just Bustelo.
没什么特别的。
It wasn't anything crazy.
我的意思是，我喜欢布斯特洛。
I mean, I love Bustelo.
你喜欢布斯特洛吗？
You like Bustelo?
好的。
Okay.
我喜欢。
I do.
我喜欢。
I do.
好吧。
Alright.
是的。
Yeah.
各位先生，你们听到了吗？
Gentlemen, are you hearing this?
各位女士，你们听到了吗？
Ladies, are you hearing this?
好吧。
Alright.
所以我觉得，当他那样做的时候，我总是会想起那个一直留在我心里的故事，人们会像传神话一样反复讲它。
So I feel like, when he did that, I always I always remembered that story that stayed with me, and people would repeat it like myth.
你知道吗？
You know?
所以有一天早上，在我们因为所有事情大吵了一架之后——就是关于所有那些事，你知道的，我想我们俩都不想说‘我们分手吧’，但这 definitely 在考虑范围内。
And so one morning, after we'd had a really bad fight about, like, about all of it, just about all of it, you know, I think we were at neither of us wanted to say, like, let's break up, but it was definitely on the menu.
你知道吗？
You know?
我实在厌倦了和我最好的朋友、我生命中的挚爱争吵不休，于是我想起了那杯咖啡的事。
And I was so tired of being at odds with my best friend and the love of my life that I just remembered the coffee thing.
然后我
And I
我就想，好吧。
was like, alright.
嗯，你
Well You
想起了那个加拿大人。
remembered the Canadian.
我记得那个加拿大人。
I remember the Canadian.
早上起床真难，因为我根本醒不来。
And it's so hard to get up in the morning because I don't I don't wake up.
所以我不得不起来，然后还得去找咖啡。
So I had I had to get up and then, like, I had to find the coffee.
我甚至都不知道咖啡放哪儿了，你知道吗？
I I didn't even know where we kept it, you know?
情况真的很糟。
Like, it was it was bad.
对吧？
Right?
所以我还是去做了。
So I I do it.
我觉得我踩到了一大堆乐高积木，差点从楼梯上摔断脖子。
I think I stepped on a myriad of Legos and, like, almost broke my neck going down the stairs.
然后我就像她喜欢的那样打奶泡，你知道的，用的是龙舌兰糖浆而不是糖。
And then, like, I, like, froth the milk like she likes and, like, you know, it's agave and not sugar.
我倒的量刚好，因为她不喜欢太多。
I got I got that going out the the right amount because she doesn't like too much.
然后我把咖啡端回楼上。
And then I bring it back upstairs.
我一边敲门一边说：叮叮叮叮叮。
I'm like, ding ding ding ding ding.
然后我把咖啡端给她，她看着我，一脸疑惑：这是怎么回事？
And then I bring it to her, and she looks at me kinda like, what's what's going on?
你是在耍我吗？
Are you punking me right now?
这到底是怎么回事？是在恶作剧吗？
Like, what what's is this a is this a prank?
然后我说，这不是恶作剧。
And then I was like, not a prank.
我只是想让你喝这杯咖啡。
I just want you to have this coffee.
你知道的，这是给你的。
It's, you know, it's for you.
这是给你的。
It's for you.
早晨的咖啡。
Morning coffee.
她喝掉了。
She drank it.
她很喜欢。
She liked it.
笑了。
Smile.
橄榄枝。
Olive branch.
你知道的。
You know?
然后一切都好了。
And then everything was fine.
很好。
Good.
完全对。
Totally.
完全对。
Totally.
我当时就想，哇。
I was like, wow.
那个加拿大人真的懂行。
That that Canadian really got it.
是的
Yeah.
不
No.
但有一件事，你之前没做过，或者很久没做过了。
But and and one thing, you hadn't you hadn't done that before or you hadn't done that in a while.
我从来没做过。
I hadn't done it ever.
哇。
Wow.
嗯
Mhmm.
我从来没做过。
I hadn't done it ever.
听好了。
Listen.
我是个好人。
I'm a nice guy.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，但你你没有，你没有是因为什么？
I mean, but you you hadn't you hadn't because what?
你平时都在睡觉。
You were normally asleep.
对吧？
Right?
我睡着了。
I was asleep.
我睡着了。
I was asleep.
作为一名喜剧演员，你能睡很多觉，我的意思是，我经常感觉自己像个白天行走的人。
As a comedian, you get to sleep I mean, often, I'd feel like a day walker.
就像太阳会稍微晒伤我的脸。
Like, it would be like the sun would burn my face a little bit.
你知道那种感觉吗？当面部感受到辐射热时，你就想：我得醒来了。
You know that point where you're getting radiant heat on your face and you're like, I gotta wake up.
所以，自从大学以来，我就一直保持着这个习惯。
So like, I'd had I'd maintained that ritual since college.
这是我的日常流程。
This is my routine.
这是
This is
我成功的秘诀。
my recipe for success.
但你给她这杯咖啡。
But you give her this coffee.
是的。
Yeah.
当你把咖啡给她并看到她的微笑时，你感觉怎么样？
How did it feel for you when you gave her the coffee and you saw that smile?
我的手在发抖。
My hand was shaking.
我的手，简直抖得厉害。
My hand was, like, totally shaking.
当她确实做出积极反应时，我兴奋极了。
And, like, when she did, you know, react positively, I was elated.
我兴奋极了。
I was elated.
你知道吗？
You know?
当时没有任何话能表达，也没有任何其他礼物能像那样让她露出微笑，让我感觉如此美好。
There were no words I could say or any other kind of, like, gifts I could give that would have put the smile on her face and made me feel, really good.
就是做这件事，你知道的，我开始不断重复它。
It was it was it was, doing that, you know, I I just started to repeat that.
我每天早上都为她煮咖啡。
I I made coffee for her every morning.
过了一阵子，我环顾四周，心想：好吧。
And then after a while, was like looking around, and I was like, okay.
既然我能做这件事，那我还还能做些什么呢？
Well, if I can do this, then what else can I do?
对吧？
Right?
我还能够做些什么呢？
What else can I do?
你是怎么想明白的？
How did you figure that out?
就是逐步扩大范围。
Just scaling.
我只是想：好吧。
I was just like, okay.
在即兴表演中，因为我是喜剧演员。
Well, in improv, it's like, because I'm a comedian.
所以即兴表演中有一条原则，不仅是‘是的，而且’，还要问‘如果这样，还能做什么？’
So one of the things in improv is not only yes and, but if this, what else?
对吧？
Right?
所以你就运用这些即兴技巧，环顾四周，看看还有什么其他可能不难做到的事情。
So you just kind of use those improvisational skills and look around at at what other things you can do that are probably not that hard to do.
于是我环顾四周，心想，好吧。
So I just looked around and I was like, okay.
有太多事情其实并不难做。
There's a myriad of things that that are not that hard to do.
我只需要把它们找出来。
I just have to identify them.
给我举几个例子。
Give me give me some of those.
很容易做到。
Easily done.
倒洗碗机里的餐具。
Emptying the dishwasher.
或者像倒洗碗机，这要花多久？
Or or like emptying the dishwasher is like it takes what?
最多十分钟而已。
Ten minutes of your time tops.
但如果你能建立起一点流程，比如对Alexa说：播放这个、那个和别的什么。
But if you get like a little process going, you you're like, Alexa, play this, that, and the third.
你可以跟着节奏放松一下，事情就做完了。
You know, you can like groove out to it and it's over.
对吧？
Right?
就做完了。
It's over.
整理床铺，尤其是当我先起床，而她后来才起来的时候，我会回去把床整理好。
Making up the bed, especially when, if I wake up first and then she gets out later, go back, make up the bed.
我会这么做，这样就少了一件她需要操心的事。
I would do that, and it was like it was just one other thing she didn't have to do.
我得知道日程安排。
I had to know the schedule.
我得了解日常流程。
I had to know the routines.
对吧？
Right?
比如学习什么时候该倒回收物、厨余垃圾还是普通垃圾。
Learning, like, when recycling versus compost versus trash was supposed to be taken out.
你有把这些写下来吗？
And were you writing this down?
这些记录都放在哪儿了？
Like, where was this going?
这些全都记在我脑子里了。
It was all going into my head.
好的。
Okay.
你懂的？
You know?
所以我一直在默默留意这些模式和节奏，好让自己融入家里的生活节拍。
And so I was, like, keeping track, casual track of all these, patterns and rhythms so I could get into into rhythm with what was happening around the house.
对吧？
Right?
比如，我知道洗衣得在周末做，这还用说吗。
So, like, understanding that laundry was on the weekends, duh.
了解家庭聚餐的时间。
Learning when family dinners were.
所以她爸妈住得挺近的。
So she has her mom and dad live close.
他们各自都有自己的家庭晚餐日。
They each have their own kind of family dinner night.
比如，不会在这些事情上措手不及。
Like, not being taken by surprise on things like that.
我们聊了厕纸。
We talked about toilet paper.
你是怎么考虑这一点的？
How did you how did you factor that in?
哦，玩具纸？
Oh, toy TP?
是的。
Yeah.
厕纸。
TP.
嗯，我得上线处理一下。
Well, I I mean, I had to I had to come online.
对吧？
Right?
而且，以前我根本不会想到卫生纸的事。
And, like, before, I wouldn't really think about the toilet paper.
但之后，我就想，好吧。
But but after, I was like, okay.
我只是在找最容易解决的问题。
I was just looking around for the lowest hanging fruit.
你有
You have
要明白，我是最懒的人。
to understand that I am the laziest man.
所以我得找最容易解决的问题。
So I had to look for the lowest hanging fruit.
卫生纸。
Toilet paper.
卫生纸。
Toilet paper.
了解你家里有多少库存。
Understanding understanding how much you had in the house.
嗯。
Mhmm.
那杂货呢？
What about groceries?
杂货？
Groceries?
是的。
Yes.
我的意思是，说到买杂货，我总是得去买东西，因为她总让我去采购、列清单，诸如此类的事。
I mean, look, on the groceries tip, I I was like I would always get groceries because she would make me go get the groceries and write the list and all this stuff.
然后我会发消息问她，这个在超市的哪个位置？
And like and then I text her and be like, where is this in the grocery store?
对。
Right.
你知道吗，这简直就像她在用Instacart，但我就是那个负责买菜的人。
You know, like, it it so it was almost like she was doing Instacart, but I was the Instacart grocery, person.
所以，她得管理我完成这些任务。
So, like, she would have to manage me as I did these tasks.
那如果我取消这个呢？
So I was like, what if I cut that out?
如果我取消这个呢？
What if I cut that out?
最懒的办法是什么？
What is the laziest way?
要达到我想去的目标，阻力最小的路径是什么？
What is the what is the the path of least resistance to get where I wanna go?
结果是一个在线的应用程序。
And it was an online like an app.
所以我用了一个应用，直接把上周的清单拍下来，然后这周输入到应用里。
So I used an app and just, like, took the list, took a picture of the list from last week and input it into into the app this week.
是的。
Yeah.
然后就搞定啦。
And presto change.
看。
Look.
谢谢硅谷，终于跟懒人同步了。
Thank you Silicon Valley for catching up with slobs.
明白吗？
Okay?
但你说这些事都很懒，确实如此。
But you're saying these things are lazy and and They are.
而且，对，没错，就是懒。
And, yeah, okay, lazy.
然后它们还像是你为自己创造的一些技巧或提醒，是的。
And then they're also, like, sort of you creating hacks or reminders for yourself Yes.
正如你所说，上线来意识到需要做什么事
To come online, as you say, to realize what needs to be done
嗯。
Mhmm.
来赋予自己能力，实现自给自足，把事情完成，是的。
To empower yourself to be self sufficient to get it done Yeah.
把这些事情从你妻子的负担中移开。
And to take these things off of your wife's plate.
我的意思是，是的。
I mean Yeah.
而且我们不妨说，这大概是在很晚很晚的时候才做的，当然比她希望的时间晚多了。
And and let's just say, you know, probably way later in the game I mean, definitely way later in the game than she would have liked.
是的。
Yeah.
但你确实在做这些事。
But you're doing these things.
你正在做出这些改变。
You're making these changes.
你有没有注意到你的妻子察觉到了这些变化？
Were you were you noticing your wife clock these changes?
她有接受吗？
Was she receptive?
她有说什么吗？
Did she say anything?
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
因为我妻子是地道的布鲁克林人。
Because my wife is from Brooklyn to the fullest.
明白吗？
Okay?
她不会给你满足感，而我就喜欢她这一点。
She's not gonna give you satisfaction, which I love about her.
我就喜欢她这一点。
I love about her.
有时候我会说，比如，我会说：宝贝，你看起来简直美得让人窒息。
Sometimes I'll be like I mean, for example, I'll be like, babe, you look devastating at a total smokeshow.
嗯。
Mhmm.
那等等。
Then wait.
我会说：你有什么想说我的吗？
I'll be like, is there anything you wanna say about me?
她会说：你这么说是因为希望我回你一些好听的话吗？
She's like, are you saying that because you want me to say something nice back to you?
你就是这个意思吗？
Is that what you're saying?
而我呢
And I'm
是的。
yes.
对，我确实希望如此。
Yes, I do.
我确实希望你这么说。
I do want you to say that.
你看起来很可爱。
You look cute.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
偶尔我会得到这种感觉。
Every once in a while, I'll get that.
我就像沙漠里的骆驼一样渴望这个。
I'm like, I'm like a camel in the desert for that.
我心想：是的。
I'm like Yeah.
求你了，一点点水。
Please, little water.
但我还是看着。
But, I look.
你得明白，她从不废话，你必须先证明自己，才能得到她的认可。
You have to she's no BS, and you have to prove yourself before you get that kind of, like, approval from her.
所以我当时就想，好吧。
And so what I did was I was like, okay.
我得停止担心，每次在家做点事会不会得到一句夸奖。
I have to stop worrying about whether or not I'm gonna get an attaboy every time I I do something around the house.
我必须为自己设立标准。
And and it has to be I have to work out standards for myself.
对吧？
Right?
我这才恍然大悟。
That's what dawned on me.
我当时就想，我做了这么多事，却没人在意。
I was like, I'm doing all these things, and nobody cares.
那你在意吗？
Well, do you care?
我觉得这真的很重要。
I think that's really important.
对。
Yes.
你做这些事是因为你想为你的家人做。
You had to do these things because you wanted to do them for your family.
对吧？
Right?
你并不是为了得到肯定或认可才做这些事的。
You didn't wanna do these things for the affirmation, for the recognition.
我想拥有一个角色。
I wanted to have a role.
我没有一个角色。
I didn't have a role.
我想拥有一个角色。
I wanted to have a role.
于是我心想，我要干一票大的。
So then I was like I was like, now I'm gonna go big.
我们是的。
We yeah.
我心想，我要做得更大。
I was like, I'm I'm gonna go bigger.
对吧？
Right?
那时候我在零售业工作。
So I was I was at retail.
我正在购物，买杂货、灯泡， whatever it was。
I'm like shopping, getting groceries, bulbs, light bulbs, whatever it was.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道的？
You know?
我这一周的东西已经够了。
And I have enough for the week.
但后来我想，如果我们做得更大一点呢？
But then I was like, what if we went bigger?
如果我办一张好市多会员卡呢？
What if what if I got a Costco membership?
是的。
Yeah.
我一直都是这样，你知道的，这些衣服都是救世军的。
I've always, you know, I'm this is like this is from the Salvation Army.
你知道的，我这个人非常注重节俭。
This you know, like, I'm very I'm I'm I'm not a I'm very spin thrift.
但我当时就想，我是那种会大手大脚花钱的人，从Costco里疯狂采购。
But I was like, I'm a I'm a just show out, and I'm a ball out of Costco.
但我觉得这很重要，因为你说的不只是你当时只做了最低限度的事，你还想，要是……
Well, but I think it's important because what you're saying is not only were you sort of doing, I guess, the minimum, you were like, what if
嗯。
Mhmm.
我们多买一些，这样就能避免果汁或帐篷用完的情况，你觉得呢？
We got more than enough so we could prevent, you know, running out of the juice or the teepee?
要是我能提前规划一下呢？这原本一直都是你推给妻子去做的事。
What if I sort of thought ahead, which was something you really had been offloading to your wife for
当然。
Absolutely.
你整个婚姻都是这样吗？
Your entire marriage?
我的意思是，你现在做的这些事——买菜、洗衣等等，都需要花时间。
I mean, these things that you're now doing, the grocery shopping, you know, the laundry, etcetera, these things take time.
确实如此。
They do.
你为了腾出时间做出过牺牲或放弃过什么吗？
Did you have to sacrifice or give anything up to make space?
没有。
No.
因为那是新冠疫情时期。
Because because it was COVID.
当时有编剧罢工，接着又有演员罢工。
There was a writer strike, then there was an actor strike.
所以我有空闲时间。
So I had time.
我突然发现自己多了这么多时间。
I found myself with all this time.
你知道吗？
And you know what?
我以前就有时间。
I had the time before.
我学到的是，我其实真的有时间做所有这些事情。
What I learned was I actually did have time to do all these things.
因为现在我重新回到了职业生涯中，但我仍然能找到时间做这些事。
Because now I I'm back online with my career, but I still find time to do all these things.
怎么做？
How?
你说什么？
What do yeah.
现在疫情结束了，你也开始工作了，你是如何优先安排这些工作和劳动的？
Now that the pandemic is and you are working, what are the ways that you're able to prioritize this work, this labor?
我早起。
I get up early.
我起得非常非常早。
I get up really, really early.
我从小事做起，然后就像雪球一样越滚越大。
That's and and I I started small, and then it just had like a v effect.
对吧？
Right?
所以我起得非常早，有时是四点半，有时是五点。
So I get up really early, sometimes 04:30, sometimes five.
那时候你可以顺便做点别的，比如洗衣服之类的。
And that's when you can, like, throw in, you know, throw in the laundry, whatever it is.
你也可以留出属于自己的时间。
You can also have time for yourself.
比如说，如果你想追剧，《怪奇物语》最后一季怎么样？
Like, if you wanted to let let's say you wanted to catch up on some series, what happened to the end of Stranger Things?
是的。
Yeah.
我可以安心地看，没人打扰我。
You know, like, I can watch that unbothered, and no one's taking up any of my time.
我需要为自己腾出时间。
I needed to figure out time for myself.
是的。
Yeah.
如果我专门划出属于自己的时间呢？
What if I carve out my time that's separate?
对。
Yes.
这样它们就不会互相冲突了。
So they're not in competition.
你书里写过，你也放弃了看体育赛事。
Something something that you wrote in your book is that you also you did give up you gave up watching sports.
是的，我放弃了。
I did.
是的，我放弃了。
I did.
听好了。
Listen.
听好了。
Listen.
我不建议每个人都这么做。
I don't suggest this for everybody.
是的。
Yeah.
但我认为这表明了。
But I think it shows.
我认为这表明了你为做出这一改变所付出的努力程度。
I think it shows the kind of the extent that you were trying to make this change.
跟我说说这件事。
Tell me about that.
朋友，那是个坏消息。
Friend, it was it was bad news.
我不得不放弃看牛仔队的比赛。
I had to give up watching the Cowboys.
你知道牛仔队是个招人讨厌的球队。
Know the Cowboys are a a hated team.
我小时候并不知道这一点。
I didn't know that as a child.
所以我来自德克萨斯州的达拉斯。
So I am from Dallas, Texas.
那里没有其他球队可以支持。
There's no one else to cheer for.
请别打扰我。
Please leave me alone.
好吗？
Okay?
我在笑，但我完全不明白。
I'm laughing, but I have no idea.
是的。
Oh, yeah.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
很好。
Good.
你不关心体育。
You're not into sports.
很好。
Good.
所以这样就可以了。
So this this is alright.
所以，不管怎样，这就是德克萨斯的文化。
So, anyway, that's the culture in Texas.
对。
Right.
我曾认真地观看牛仔队的比赛，但这是一种单方面的关系，因为他们总是输。
And I I would dutifully watch the Cowboys, and it was a one-sided relationship because they were losing all the time.
后来我意识到，我总是因为牛仔队而生气，还一直不停地看他们比赛。
Then I realized I I'm always so mad, about the Cowboys and then watching them relentlessly.
对。
Right.
如果你仔细想想，好吧。
If you think about it okay.
一场比赛大约持续三个小时。
There's a game is about three hours long.
所以你算一下，3乘以17，别忘了如果他们进入季后赛，还要再加几周。
So if you multiply three times 17, and don't forget if they get into the playoffs, it's another couple weeks.
三乘以十七是五十一，那就是五十一小时。
Three times seventeen, fifty one, that's fifty one hours.
对吧？
Right?
五十一小时就是你整整两天多一点都瘫在沙发上。
Fifty one hours is you for two days and a little bit parked on the couch.
我当时想，既然他们反正又要输，而且总是这样，那我干脆不看了。
And I was like, what if because they're just gonna blow it and they always do, I just don't watch.
于是我就没看。
So I didn't.
我真的没看。
I didn't.
你知道吗？
And you know what?
他们还是输了。
They still lost.
好吧？
Okay?
没有我，他们表现得糟透了。
They were doing horribly without me.
没有我，他们表现得糟透了。
They were doing horribly without me.
我当时就想，我突然有了这么多时间。
And I was like I was like, I found myself with all this time.
我发现自己有时间做家务，也能和家人一起做些有趣的事情。
I found myself with time to, to do chores and also do fun activities with my family.
改变你自己这一点
To change that about yourself
嗯。
Mhmm.
我认为这体现了那些更小、更日常的改变，实际上是在重新构建你的身份框架。
I think is representative of these maybe smaller or more quotidian, more everyday changes, really actually kind of reconstructing the framework of your identity.
这么说是不是太夸张了？
Is that too dramatic to say?
不。
No.
我觉得这么说一点都不夸张。
I don't think that's too dramatic to say.
而且我超喜欢你的发音。
And I I love your pronunciation.
‘Cotidian’这个词用得恰到好处。
The word Cotidian was right on the money.
我当时就想，
I was like,
就是这样
that's how
发音是这样的。
it's said.
好的。
Okay.
总之，是的。
Anyway, yes.
对。
Yes.
确实如此。
It did.
不过，它一点一点地改变了我。
It it changed me little by little though.
所以，我的意思是，我几乎把它看作像钟乳石那样变化。
So, I mean, I I almost think of it like as like a, you know, like a stalactite changes.
是的。
Yeah.
但只是水滴，变化就是这么缓慢。
But just drops of water, that's that's how slowly the increments were.
这个过程很缓慢，一开始很小、很小、很小，后来才变得巨大。
And it was slow until it was, or it was small, small, small until it was big.
我们马上回来。
We'll be back in just a moment.
请继续关注我们。
Stay with us.
你所做出的这些改变，虽然微小但累积起来，是如何影响你和你妻子之间的关系的呢？
How did these changes you were making, which were small but which added up how did this affect your dynamic with your wife?
我的意思是，埃丝特·佩雷尔的书还在床头柜上吗？
I mean, were the Esther Perel books still on the nightstand?
它们还在那里。
They're they're still there.
它们还在那里。
They're still there.
但真正改变的是，家里的紧张气氛减轻了。
But but what did change was the tension lessened in the house.
因为她不必再时刻想着所有事情了。
Because she wasn't having to think about everything all the time, all at once.
那并不是她的职责。
Like, that wasn't her job.
她不再是以前那个空中交通管制员了。
She wasn't the air traffic controller she once was.
对吧？
Right?
所以我又开辟了一条新路径。
So I'd opened up another lane.
而且我能感觉到，事情正在慢慢好转。
And and that's I could feel I could feel that things were easing up.
你记得有没有某个具体时刻，你真正看到了这种轻松的体现，或者看到她肩上的重担被卸下了吗？
Do you remember a specific moment where where you really saw that kind of ease in action or, like, where you saw the weight lifted off her shoulders?
你记得有没有某个具体时刻，那种
Do remember a specific moment where that
是的。
Yeah.
这肯定是在我意识到自己角色的那一刻发生的。
It's never it's it's it's definitely gonna be when there was a moment when I felt like I found my role.
对吧？
Right?
我儿子不小心把橙汁洒在了桌上，然后我说：‘去拿张纸巾来。’
My son had had, like, spilled some OJ on the table, and then he I was like, go run, get a paper towel.
结果我们当时没纸巾了。
And, like, we were out of paper towels.
对吧？
Right?
于是我妻子说：‘好吧。’
So I was like, and then my wife was like, great.
我只好去便利店再买一包。
I guess I'll go to the bodega and get more.
然后我儿子说：不。
And then my son was like, no.
爸爸车库里有很多纸巾。
Daddy has all these paper towels in the garage.
爸爸在那儿买所有纸巾，是的。
Daddy gets all the paper towels at yeah.
通过好市多会员。
At the Costco membership.
所以当时他说了类似的话，比如爸爸什么都会买。
So it was like and he said something like like about like like, daddy gets all the stuff.
爸爸什么都会买，你知道的。
Like, daddy gets all the stuff, you know?
哦，抱歉。
Like Oh, sorry.
是的。
Like yeah.
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