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我们向《纽约时报》的员工提前展示了跨平台联机功能，以下是他们的反馈。
We gave Times employees a preview of cross play from New York Times games, and here's what they had to say.
我终于可以和其他人一起玩了。
I can finally play with other people.
我很有竞争心。
I'm pretty competitive.
击败朋友和同事很有趣。
It's fun to beat friends and coworkers.
我有一个字母J，得10分。
I have a j for 10 points.
我猜'tango'不是一个单词。
I'm guessing tango is not a word.
我们来看看。
Let's see.
tango是一个单词。
Tango is a word.
哦。
Oh.
作为英语作为第二语言的学习者，我喜欢学习新单词。
As in English as a second language speaker, I like to learn new words.
《纽约时报》游戏的订阅用户可全面访问Crossplay，这是我们首款双人文字游戏。
New York Times game subscribers get full access to Crossplay, our first two player word game.
现在订阅，即可享受我们所有游戏的特别优惠。
Subscribe now for a special offer on all of our games.
今天和明天。
Now and tomorrow.
坠入爱河
Fall in love
最后的爱。
last Love.
爱。
Love.
但比任何东西都更强烈。
But stronger than anything.
为了爱。
For the love.
爱。
Love.
我比任何东西都更爱你。
And I love you more than anything.
爱。
Love.
这里有爱。
There's love.
爱。
Love.
来自《纽约时报》，我是安娜·马丁。
From The New York Times, I'm Anna Martin.
这是《现代爱情》。
This is Modern Love.
在今天的节目中，我采访了作家兼前《纽约时报》专栏作家林迪·韦斯特。
On today's show, I'm talking to the writer and former New York Times columnist, Lindy West.
多年前，林迪写了一本名为《丰满》的书，带你走进她聪明、古怪又幽默的内心，见证她在这样一个不断告诉她肥胖是问题、让她从根本上不可爱的世界中前行。
Years ago, Lindy wrote a book called Shrill that puts you inside her brilliant, weird, funny brain as she moves through a world that keeps telling her that being fat is a problem, that it makes her fundamentally unlovable.
但到了《丰满》的结尾，林迪对自己充满信心，同时也与她最好的朋友阿哈姆坠入爱河。
But by the end of Shrill, Lindy's feeling confident in herself, and she's also found love with her best friend, Aham.
他们结婚了，将永远在一起。
They get married, and they're gonna be together forever.
现在，在林迪最新的著作《成年牙套》中，她坦诚地揭示了一个从婚姻一开始就潜藏的问题。
Now in Lindy's latest book called Adult Braces, she's opening up about a problem that was kind of built into her marriage from the start.
阿哈姆并不想完全忠于一夫一妻制。
Aham did not want to be totally monogamous.
尽管林迪努力让自己接受这一点，但说实话，她并没有做到。
And while Lindy wanted to be okay with that, really, she wasn't.
这种情况迟早会爆发。
This situation was bound to explode at some point.
今天，我和林迪谈到了事情爆发的那一刻。
And today, I talked to Lindy about the moment it did.
林迪·韦斯特，欢迎来到《现代爱情》。
Lindy West, welcome to Modern Love.
非常感谢你邀请我。
Thank you so much for having me.
林迪，好的。
Lindy, okay.
在你第一本书《尖叫》的结尾，嗯。
Towards the end of your first book, Shrill Mhmm.
你和丈夫阿哈姆结婚了。
You get married to your husband, Aham.
找到爱情，总是件大事。
Finding love, always a big deal.
但当你和阿哈姆在一起时，这对你来说尤其意义重大。
But when you and Aham got together, it was a particularly big deal for you.
你能告诉我为什么吗？
Can you tell me why?
是的。
Yeah.
天啊。
I gosh.
我很久没想过这件事了，但昨晚阿哈姆和我刚聊过这个。
It's it's I haven't thought about this in such a long time, but Aham and I were just talking about this last night.
我一直都挺孤单、单身、难过、渴望爱情，你知道的。
I had always been kind of lonely and single and sad and yearning, you know.
在胖体型中长大，人们总告诉你，除非你改变身材，否则没人会爱你。
And growing up in a fat body, people tell you no one will ever love you unless you fix your body.
而作为一名在互联网上非常显眼的女性，陌生人每天都会这样告诉你，而我内心其实已经对此有所应对了。
And then being a a woman a very visible woman on the Internet, then strangers are just telling you that every single day, which I already kinda had it handled internally.
他们说，我不需要再被指责了。
They're like, I don't need the pile on.
我不需要你们的关心，各位。
I don't need the come on, guys.
就像萨曼莎·艾比说的，让水管工去修水槽吧。
Let as as Samantha Irby says, let the plumber fix the sink.
我明白了。
I got it.
所以这件事背后背负着太多包袱。
So there's just all this baggage around it.
但真的，我的意思是，我和阿哈彼此深爱着对方。
But really, I mean, heart, Aham and I just love each other so much.
我觉得我们都隐约知道，无法想象没有彼此的生活。
And I think we both kinda knew that we couldn't imagine a life without the other person.
所以，你知道，但但，某种程度上，他想给我一个盛大的求婚和婚礼，这是我曾经以为自己永远不可能拥有的，这确实治愈了我内心的一些东西。
So, you know but but, yeah, on some level, he wanted to give me that, like, big proposal, big wedding that I thought I would never get to have because it it it was very it healed something in me.
是的
Yeah.
婚姻不仅仅是为了确认你们两个人之间的联系。
Marriage was not, you know, sort of only about affirming the connection between the two of you.
它还像是一种近乎公开的认可印章。
It was also this kind of almost like public stamp of approval.
你认同这一点吗？
Does that track?
是不是有点像那样？
Was it sort of like that?
这么说感觉有点混乱，但我想，是的。
I mean, it feels disordered to say that, but I think but yeah.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
因为，我的意思是，我们每个人都是复杂的个体。
Because, I mean, we contain multitudes.
对吧？
Right?
而且，再次强调，这并不是我结婚的原因。
And, again, that's not why I got married.
那会
That would
疯了。
be crazy.
我觉得不会。
I think no.
我觉得我还需要退一步，明确地说，你们俩确实深爱着对方。
I I feel like I need to also zoom out and just, like, affirm that you guys also really fucking loved each other.
对吧？
Right?
就像，这是一种强大而美好的联结。
Like, was this strong, beautiful connection.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，你知道，我们非常不同，但从第一天开始约会，我们就觉得：‘哦，这就是我最好的朋友。’
I mean, you know, we're very different, but we're also, you know, from from the first day, you know, we started dating, we were like, oh, that's my best friend.
然后我们就再也没有分开过。
And then we just were never apart.
即使我们试过几次分手，我们还是每天打电话，说：‘喂？’
Even when we tried to break up a couple times, we were still just like calling each other every day and being like, hello?
你知道的。
You know?
我们俩就像是两个怪人，总在同一个时间说出同样的话。
And we were very much two freaks who say the same thing at the same time.
我们总在同一个时间讲同一个笑话。
We make the same joke at the same time.
我们总在同一个时间接同一个梗。
We do the same riff.
这对别人来说令人不安且让人反感。
It's it's it's alarming and off putting to others.
但对那些人来说不是。
Except to those.
是的。
Yeah.
只对你来说不是。
Except to you.
意思是，只对我们来说不是。
Mean Except to us.
我两个怪人。
I two freaks.
我的意思是，两个怪人互相匹配对方的怪异。
I mean, two freaks matching each other's freak.
你们结婚的时候，希望未来是什么样子？
When you got married, what did you hope your future would look like?
所以我认为我只是想象我们会一直沿着传统的道路走下去。
So I think I just imagined that we would, you know, stay on the sort of traditional track.
我以为我们会生个孩子，买栋房子，然后继续工作。
I I thought we would probably have a baby and have a buy a house and, you know, continue to work.
我们也很经常一起工作。
We also work together a lot.
阿哈姆是个艺术家，我帮他做他的演出，他也经常在写作上帮我。
Aham is an artist and I work on his shows and he helps me a lot with my work, with my writing.
然后，是的，我某种程度上设想了一段经典的幸福婚姻。
And then, yeah, I think I sort of envisioned a classic happy marriage.
我觉得我原本以为我们会一辈子过得非常愉快。
Like, I think that I thought we would just have a great time for the rest of our lives.
这听起来很棒。
That sounds great.
这听起来听起来，我的意思是，你提到‘经典’这个词来形容你的婚姻很有趣，因为你刚出了一本新书。
That sounds that sounds I mean, it and I it's interesting that you bring up the word classic in reference to your marriage because you have a new book out.
这本书叫《成人牙套》。
It's called Adult Braces.
在这本书中，你分享了关于你和Aham的婚姻中一段并非我所说的那种‘经典’的经历。
And in this book, you share a piece of information about your relationship, your marriage to Aham that was not, I would say, quote, unquote, classic.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yes.
你提到Aham是非单偶制的。
You share the fact that Aham was non monogamous.
对吗？
Correct?
是的。
Yes.
所以我们在2011年短暂地分手了。
So we briefly broke up in 2011.
那是个糟糕的时期。
Then it was a bad time.
我在《Shrill》中写到了这件事。
I write about it in Shrill.
我和Aham分手了。
Aham and I broke up.
我父亲去世了。
My dad died.
是的。
Yeah.
那太糟糕了。
It was horrible.
一棵树倒在我的房子上。
A tree fell on my house.
然后我们复合了。
Then we got back together.
但那部分是因为Aham说，你知道，我27岁前已经离过两次婚。
But part of that was Aham was like, you know, I I've been divorced twice by age 27.
我觉得占有欲和嫉妒在两段关系的破裂中都起了很大作用。
And I feel like possessiveness and jealousy had a lot to do with both of those relationships collapsing.
而且
And
我希望我们分开是因为我们不是被囚禁在爱的牢笼里。
I want us to be not together because we're trapped and locked together in a prison of love.
或者，他并不是那样说的？
Or, you know, he didn't say it like that?
当然。
Of course.
是的。
Yeah.
你在做主观解读。
You're editorializing.
你是个作家。
You're a writer.
这说得通。
That makes sense.
是的。
Yeah.
但他他说，我不觉得一夫一妻制对
But, he he was like, I don't I don't think I don't think that monogamy is healthy for
我来说是健康的。
me.
他有这么多理由，从理智上讲都讲得通。
He has all these reasons, which make intellectual sense.
我去的是所文理学院。
I'm like, I went to a liberal arts school totally.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
但情感上，这对你造成了什么影响？
But emotionally, how was this hitting you?
是的。
Yeah.
我也是。
Same for me.
从理智上讲，我觉得这很有道理。
It made intellectual sense to me.
事实上，我一直觉得这在理智上说得通，我明白这种方式的运作原理以及人们为什么这么做。
And in fact, it had always made intellectual sense to I was like, I understand how this works and why people do this.
但我个人缺乏足够的自尊去应对它。
I don't personally have the self esteem to to cope with it.
我曾经有过
I've had
我也一样。
this too.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我最初的反应是，我感到非常崩溃。
So my initial reaction was like, I was devastated.
而且因为我当时在一家另类周刊工作。
And I because I worked at the alt weekly.
丹·萨维奇是我的老板。
Dan Savage was my boss.
这感觉就像是所有人都应该这么做，否则你就会显得像个傻瓜。
It just it felt like everyone was supposed to do it or else you were like Yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
你会被认为是个守旧的人，像个老派女性。
You were like a prude and a pioneer woman.
当然。
Of course.
我当时就想，为什么我非得做这件事，就因为那些很酷的孩子觉得这样更好？
And I was like, why do I have to do that just because all these cool kids think it's better?
是的。
Yeah.
为什么我就不能自己做决定呢？
Like, why can't I make my own choices?
所以我们最初的对话就是我一直在哭，说我不想跟任何人在一起。
So our initial conversation was a lot of me crying and being like, I don't want anyone else.
这被当成一种条件了吗？比如，如果我们非单调，就能复合？
Was it presented as sort of like, we can get back together if we are non monogamous?
这是一种有条件的提议吗？
Was it like a conditional thing?
明白了。
Okay.
基本上，我是这么想的。
Basically, I think so.
但并不是他说，我要出去和别人约会。
But it wasn't him saying, I'm gonna go out and date people.
我们是一对彼此深爱的伴侣，嗯。
We're a couple who loves each other desperately Mhmm.
重新在一起。
Getting back together.
所以，这并不是我们当中任何一人觉得，哦，我想出去找别人。
So this was not a moment when either of us was like, oh, I wanna go out and find someone else.
我们对重聚感到无比欣喜。
We were ecstatic to be reuniting.
好的。
Okay.
所以，我们最终达成的共识是，如果我们想共度余生，谁知道十年、二十年后会发生什么呢？
So where we landed was if we wanna be together for the rest of our lives, who knows what's gonna happen in ten years, twenty years?
我们会遇到谁呢？
Who we're gonna meet?
我们会有什么感受？
How we're gonna feel?
并且锁定承诺，说我们的感情永远不会改变，我们永远不会对这段关系之外的任何人产生兴趣。
And to lock in and say, our feelings are never gonna change, and we're never gonna have any interest in anyone else outside of this partnership.
这根本不现实。
It's just not realistic.
一旦我重新看待它，把它当作我们迟早要面对的事情。
Once it was reframed as something that I could something that we were gonna deal with eventually.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我特别喜欢拖延。
And I love to procrastinate.
不过这很有趣。
That's interesting, though.
你基本上是在回避这个问题。
You're kicking the can, basically, of this Yeah.
关系。
Relationship.
是的。
Yeah.
什么？
What?
定义？
Definition?
框架？
Framework?
嗯。
Uh-huh.
这对他很不公平，因为他确实告诉我一些对他很重要的事。
Which is so unfair to him because he really was telling me something that was that's important to him.
我一直以来都把它看作一个可以通过努力慢慢消磨并克服的障碍。
And I I always heard it as an obstacle that I could, like, wear down and overcome.
你知道的。
You know?
我觉得只要我当一个最好的女友，他就不会再想要这个愚蠢的东西了。
Like, I just need to be the best girlfriend so that he doesn't want this stupid thing anymore.
阿哈姆真的非常努力地想让我真正从情感上正视这个问题。
And Aham Aham tried so hard to get me to actually engage with this emotionally.
他是怎么做的？
How how did he try?
我的意思是，他提醒过我，我觉得，我回避困难的倾向是有毒的，会在关系中带来一些负面影响。
Oh, I just mean he warned me, I think, that my tendency to avoid hard things was toxic and was going to be a little bit poisonous in the relationship.
我确实觉得它造成了缓慢的伤害，因为正是由于这个模糊的问题，我一直拖延到未知的将来，所以我总是害怕那个时刻何时会到来。
And I do think it it did slow damage because because then what happened was because we had this nebulous thing that I had kicked down the road until an unknown time, I was always dreading when was that time gonna come.
是的。
Yep.
所以每次阿哈姆发起任何一种真正困难的对话时，哪怕只是说‘你做完饭后马上去洗碗’之类的，我都会像有人拿着刀追我一样反应。
So every time Aham initiated any kind of, like, really hard conversation, even if it was just like, you need to do the dishes right after you cook or whatever, I would react like someone was chasing me with a
刀。
knife.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道吗，我会——
You know, like, I would
每一次对话都像是那场重大对话，他会说‘我遇见了别人’或‘我在和别人约会’。
Every conversation was like the big one where he'd be like, I've met someone or I'm dating someone.
那个阴影一直对你挥之不去。
Like, that specter was always kind of looming for you.
是的。
Yes.
但到了某个时刻，你写过，你再也无法回避了。
But then there comes a point, you write about this in your book, where, you can't avoid it.
告诉我，你是怎么发现阿哈姆在和别人约会的？
Tell me about the moment you found out that Aham was dating someone else.
2019年，我正在西雅图录制我的第二本书的有声书。
2019, I'm recording my audiobook for my second book, and I'm in Seattle.
我刚结束六个月的外出，回到家。
I had just gotten home from being away for six months.
就在录制有声书的时候，我收到了一条短信。
And I get a text while I'm recording my audiobook.
我不知道为什么当时手机是开着的。
Don't know why I had my phone on.
我不该那样做的。
Shouldn't have done that.
我得知，有一位认识阿哈姆长相的粉丝，看到他在酒吧里亲吻别人。
And I I find out that someone who was a fan of mine who knew what Aham looked like had seen him kissing someone at a bar.
我立刻告诉工程师我家里出了急事，必须离开。
And I just told the engineer that I had a family emergency and I had to go.
我回到家，我们整晚都在谈话。
And I went home and we talked for the rest of the night.
到了这个时候，他已经基本上得出结论，我们无法解决这个问题。
And and at this point, he was like he had sort of come to the conclusion that we couldn't resolve this.
哦。
Oh.
所以他才继续和这个人交往，因为我一直不在家。
Which is why he went ahead and started dating this person because he because I had been gone.
我拒绝和他谈这件事。
I was I had refused to talk to him about it.
而且我从技术上讲已经同意了非专一关系。
And I had technically agreed to be non monogamous.
他说：‘我只是想做些让自己感觉像个人的事。’
And he was like, well, I I'm just gonna do what I need to do to feel like a person.
我不知道。
I don't know.
你有没有觉得你在失去他？
Did it feel like you were losing him?
我想理解你一直害怕的事情现在发生了。
I wanna understand this thing you've been dreading is now happening.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得我好像正在失去他，但我就是决心要赢。
I think it felt like I was losing him, but I I was just determined to win.
我就是这么感觉的。
I that's how I felt.
我觉得你在发疯。
I was like, you're being crazy.
我是世上最棒的人，因为我不仅有低自尊，还有很高的自尊。
I'm the greatest person alive because I also have high self esteem in addition to low self We
人是复杂的。
contain multitudes.
我当时就想，你到底在干什么？
I was like, what the fuck do you think you're doing?
这太疯狂了。
That's crazy.
我让自己在各个方面都发泄愤怒，这实际上是一种宣泄，因为我已经压抑这些情绪很久了。
I I let myself be angry in every possible direction, which was actually cathartic because I had been suppressing all those feelings for a really long time.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
就像，是的。
Like Yeah.
因为我必须做个完美的女友，完美的妻子。
Because I had because I had to be perfect girlfriend, perfect wife.
这样就不会发生这种情况。
So this wouldn't happen.
这样就不会发生这种事了。
So this thing that's happening wouldn't happen.
是的。
Yes.
所以，是的，我们经历了一场持续好几天的争吵。
So, yeah, we had this, like, multi day fight.
这其实也很温柔、很甜蜜，你知道吗？
That's also, like, very tender and sweet, you know?
因为我们其实并不想伤害彼此。
Because we we actually don't wanna hurt each other.
对。
Yeah.
我的意思是，在某个时刻，你们是不是最后长舒了一口气？
I mean, at at a certain point, did you end up it's a big sigh.
随着时间推移，你有没有问更多关于阿哈姆所见的那个人的问题？
As the days went on, did you ask more questions about this person that Aham was seeing?
你有没有开始感到好奇？
Did you start to get curious?
没有。
Nope.
嗯，我当时就想，别跟我提这个讨厌的人。
Well, I think I was like, don't tell me anything about this stupid person.
我不想了解。
I don't wanna know.
我当时就像个小孩一样。
Like, I was like a baby.
我完全像个孩子。
I was I was like full child self.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
就像在发脾气。
Like, having a tantrum.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我当时没穿上我作为成年女性的裤子。
I was not wearing my adult woman pants.
我当时确实是。
I was yeah.
我当时特别在意，她比我漂亮吗？
I was very much like, is she prettier than me?
你是不是更爱她而不是我？
Do you love her more than me?
你们是不是在背后笑话我？
You know, do do you guys laugh at me?
你还记得他对这个问题是怎么回答的吗？
Do you remember what he said to that question?
是的。
Yeah.
他说没有。
He said no.
你知道吗，他说她是个非常好的人，而你只是不一样。
You know, he said he said she's a really good person, and and you're just different.
他还说，你是我的妻子。
And he was like, you're my wife.
我是说，我谁都不比你更爱。
Like, I don't I don't love anybody more than you.
你知道吗？
You know?
那件事
Did that
感觉真实吗？
feel true?
在那一刻，你觉得那真实吗？
Did that feel true to you in that moment?
是的。
Yes.
我只是不明白。
And I just didn't understand.
我当时想，天啊，我们找到了最好的东西。
I was like, man, we have we found the best thing.
你知道吗？
You know?
我们做到了。
We we did it.
我们是最好的朋友，每天都能一起玩。
Like, we're best friends, and we get to hang out every day.
你为什么要搞砸这一切，伙计？
What why do you wanna fuck it up, dude?
你还想要求什么？
What more could you want?
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
最终，你不得不面对这样一个事实：阿哈姆正在约会的这个人，是他生活中非常重要的一部分。
Eventually, you were kind of forced to reckon with the fact that this person Aham was dating was a pretty big part of his life.
告诉我你发现了什么，以及这让你有什么感受。
Tell me what you found out and how that made you feel.
所以他告诉我，她的名字叫罗亚。
So he told me that her name was Roya.
嗯。
Mhmm.
她是波特兰一个场地的艺术总监，那个场地曾举办过他的演出。
And she was one of the artistic directors of a venue in Portland that had put on one of his shows.
所以当他们在那儿办演出时，我实际上见过她。
So I actually met her when they did the show there.
她人非常好。
And she was so nice.
我记得见到她的时候，她看起来特别瘦小。
I remember I meeting know she was like, so small.
她简直是个 tiny little person（特别小的人）。
She was like the tiniest little person.
我呢，算是高大魁梧的——虽然我不太想自嘲，但我个子高、体型大，占的空间和气场都很多。
I am the biggest, loudest well, I'm not gonna be self deprecating, but I'm tall and I'm big and I take up a lot of space and energy.
而她呢，就是一个小巧又美丽的女孩。
And she was just like a tiny little beautiful.
她有点哥特风格。
She's like kinda goth.
你知道的吧？
You know?
是的。
Yeah.
而我呢，打扮得有点像小丑。
Meanwhile, I'm like I kinda dress like a clown.
在很多方面，她都完全和我相反。
Just very much an inverse of me in a lot of ways.
当然，这些方面也让我感到极度不安全。
And, of course, in ways that made me feel wildly insecure.
那么，你们是怎么发现的呢？你知道的，有次你坐下来对我说，我需要告诉你更多关于这个人的事？
So how did you you found out Aham, you know, sat you down at one point and was like, I need to tell you more about who this person is?
是的。
Yeah.
因为她的最好的朋友去世了。
Because her her best friend died.
那是一种像家人一样的挚友关系，她在朋友生病期间一直是他的主要照顾者。
And it was one of those best friendships that's like family, and she was his primary caregiver during his illness.
这真的非常沉重。
And it was just It's intense.
是的。
Yeah.
她需要在那里有支持系统，而阿哈姆是她支持系统的一部分。
And she needed her support system there, and Aham was part of her support system.
阿哈姆是个善良的人，非常关心他人，他需要去波特兰陪她度过这些艰难的时光。
And Aham is a good person who cares about people really deeply, and he needed to go to Portland to be with her during these really hard weeks.
我记得我当时很生气，说：‘我还没准备好，你从来不会等我准备好。’
And I remember being mad and being like, I'm not ready and you never wait for me to be ready.
你总是想做什么就做什么。
You just do whatever you wanna do.
但接着我又想：‘我又能说什么呢？’
But then being like, what am I gonna say?
不，你不能去。
No, you can't go.
你知道，我不愿意成为那种人——明明知道对你重要的人正在痛苦中，
You know, I don't wanna be the kind of person that says someone important to you is in Pain.
承受着难以想象的痛苦，我却还要故作冷静地说‘不行’。
Unimaginable pain, and I'm gonna sort of patulently say, no.
你得留下来陪我。
You need to stay here with me.
你知道，我不想成为那样的人。
You know, I don't wanna be that person.
同时，我还在进行我自己的心理治疗。
And I simultaneously am doing all this work in my own therapy.
其中大部分内容是关于重新认识我自己，而不是作为伴侣的一部分。
Most of which is about me kind of remembering who I am, not as part of a couple.
尤其是因为我把自己设定了一个‘完美妻子’的挑战，难度设为不可能，我早已忘记了自己作为个体是谁，因为我的任务就是扮演好这个伴侣角色，尽我所能，严格按照我认为Aham会希望的方式去做。
Because especially since I had set it up as the perfect wife challenge, difficulty level impossible, I had really lost sight of who I was outside of that couple because my job was to do the couple and do it the best I could and do you know, and do it exactly how I thought Aham would want it.
你知道吗？
You know?
除了他告诉过我他唯一想要的那一件事。
Aside from the one thing he told me he did want.
于是我开始重新唤醒那个只是Lindy的自己。
And so I was starting to wake up those muscles of of being just Lindy.
那个人是谁？
Who is that?
你知道吗？
You know?
我开始更多地和朋友相处，也花更多时间独处。
And I was spending time with my friends more and I was, spending more time alone.
于是他离开了。
And and so he left.
我仍然感到不安和焦虑。
I was still uncomfortable and anxious.
嗯。
But Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
你第一次真正知道了他在哪里，而他
You You knew for the first time where he was, and he was
和那个女人在一起。
with this other woman.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时就想，我得想象他们正在做什么。
And I was like, I had to sort of imagine what they were doing.
基本上，他开始定期去，大概一个月一次。
And basically, he started going regularly, like, maybe once a month.
每次都会变得越来越容易。
And it just got easier every time.
你知道的。
You know?
于是我开始尝试放手。
And I started to experiment with letting go.
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如果我想象他们在做什么呢？
What if I do picture what they're doing?
如果我想起她呢？
What if I do think about her?
如果我看了她在Instagram上的照片，并把她当作一个不是我敌人的普通人呢？
What if I looked at her picture on Instagram and thought about her as a person who's not an adversary to me?
我越这么做，感觉就越好，而不是一味否认、害怕，害怕失去控制。
And the more I did that, it felt so much better than just being in denial and being scared and being being fearful of losing control.
因为你实际上无法控制别人。
Because you you actually can't control other people.
我应该能控制吗？
Should I be able to?
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
唯一能控制的人
The only person
是我自己吗？
I can control is myself?
就像我这唯一一次珍贵而狂野的人生？
Like, my one wild and precious life?
我的意思是，你就是这样在做这些个人成长的。
I mean, it it it so you're how you're doing this personal work.
你正在试图弄清楚，林迪到底是谁？
You're trying to figure out, like, who is Lindy?
你也在试着把李看作一个普通人。
You're trying to also, like, see Lee as a person.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你决定开启一段经典的、我称之为自我探索的旅程——伟大的美国公路旅行。
And you decide to embark on a kind of classic, I'd say, adventure of self discovery, the great American road trip.
告诉我这次公路旅行是如何影响你当时生活中的这项工作的。
Tell me how this road trip factored into into this work you were doing at this part of your life.
是的。
Yeah.
所以阿哈姆开始每个月去看一次罗亚。
So so Aham starts going to see Roya once a month.
事情变得越来越容易。
It gets easier and easier.
最终，我发现自己爱上了这种感觉。
Eventually, I'm like, loving it.
我心想，天哪。
I'm like, oh my god.
我整个周末都可以独处。
I have a whole weekend to myself.
我想做什么就做什么。
I'm gonna do whatever I want.
我要和朋友们出去玩。
I'm gonna hang out with my friends.
我要看电视。
I'm gonna watch TV.
我要点外卖。
I'm gonna get takeout.
简直太棒了。
Like, it was great.
然后他回来的时候，我会说，天哪。
And then he would come back, and I'd be like, oh my god.
我想你了。
I missed you.
他也想我了，特别开心。
And he was he missed me, and it was so fun.
这真是个巨大的变化。
This is a big change.
这是一种进步。
This is progress.
说实话，我甚至都不知道该怎么描述这是怎么发生的，但它确实发生了。
I honestly, like I don't even actually know how to articulate how this happened, but it did.
而且，很大程度上就是那个放手的过程。
And it and a lot of it was just that let that process of letting go.
是我放下了恐惧，只是带着好奇心去看会发生什么。
It was me letting go of fear and just and having curiosity to see what would happen.
总之，后来我就对这种感觉上瘾了
And anyway, so then I get so addicted to that feeling
的
of
独处的时光。
my time alone.
我看着阿汉出门，踏上他的自我发现之旅。
I'm watching Aham go out and have his journey of self discovery.
我心想：我的人生旅程到底在哪？
And I'm like, what's where's my freaking journey?
你知道的。
You know?
我不确定自己想要男朋友，但我是谁呢？
I don't know that I want a boyfriend, but who who am I?
你知道，我想多花点时间独处。
You know, I I wanted to spend more time by myself.
我突然觉得日常琐事让我窒息，而过去在家这个安全的避风港一直让我感到安心。
I felt stifled by routine all of a sudden, where routine had always or or being at my being at home kind of cocoon had always been a thing that made me feel safe.
我开始想：人生难道就只有这些吗？
And I started to be like, what if there's more to life than this?
你知道的。
You know?
我们马上回来。
We'll be right back.
这部开创性的系列剧曾风靡全球，当我触碰那些石头时，这并非一个选择。
The groundbreaking series that captivated the world When I touched those stones, it wasn't a choice.
如今，它迎来了史诗般的结局。
Comes to its epic conclusion.
我们能够相遇，这绝非偶然。
It's no small medical that we found each other.
《外乡人》最终季。
The final season of Outlander.
现在仅在Starz平台观看。
Watch now only on Starz.
我是A.G.苏尔茨伯格。
This is AG Sulzberger.
我是《纽约时报》的出版人。
I'm the publisher of The New York Times.
我负责监督我们的新闻业务和商业运营。
I oversee our news operations and our business.
但我也曾是一名记者，目睹了近年来我们这个行业不断萎缩，感到非常担忧。
But I'm also a former reporter who has watched with a lot of alarm as our profession has shrunk and shrunk in recent years.
通常，在这些广告中，我们会谈论订阅《纽约时报》的重要性。
Normally, in these ads, we talk about the importance of subscribing to The Times.
今天，我想传达一个不同的信息。
I'm here today with a different message.
我鼓励你们支持任何致力于原创报道的新闻机构。
I'm encouraging you to support any news organization that's dedicated to original reporting.
如果是你们当地的报纸，那太好了。
If that's your local newspaper, terrific.
尤其是地方报纸，特别需要你们的支持。
Local newspapers in particular need your support.
如果是其他全国性报纸，那也同样很棒。
If that's another national newspaper, that's great too.
如果选择《纽约时报》，我们会用这笔资金派遣记者去发掘事实与背景信息，而这些是人工智能永远无法提供的。
And if it's The New York Times, we'll use that money to send reporters out to find the facts and context that you'll never get from AI.
就这样。
That's it.
不是要你点击任何链接。
Not asking you to click on any link.
只是支持一家由真实记者进行第一手、基于事实报道的新闻机构。
Just subscribe to A Real News Organization with real journalists doing firsthand, fact based reporting.
如果你已经这样做了，谢谢。
And if you already do, thank you.
你说，当你开始以好奇的心态看待罗伊和阿哈姆的关系时，事情就开始改变了，听起来你正把这种好奇心转向自己。
You said that things started to change when you began to look at Roy and Aham's relationship from a place of curiosity, and it sounds like you're turning that curiosity onto yourself.
比如，我还能做些什么？
Like, what more can I do?
我如何成长？
How can I grow?
我如何挑战自己？
How can I push myself?
是的。
Yeah.
我还能怎样变得勇敢呢？还有哪些其他方式？
How how can I what what are some other ways I could be brave?
有一天我醒来，心想：嗯。
So I woke up one day and I was like, uh-huh.
我得走了。
I gotta go.
我当时想，我要去租一辆货车，独自来一次公路旅行。
I was like, I'm gonna get I said, I think I need to rent a van and go on a road trip by myself.
他回答：好的。
And he was like, okay.
这个想法真的是在梦里突然冒出来的吗？
It really just came to you like that in the dream?
差不多吧。
Kinda.
是的。
Yeah.
它非常完整地出现在我脑海中。
It was very it came to me fully formed.
突然间我就想，我得租一辆房车，然后开车去佛罗里达。
Like, I was suddenly like, I gotta rent a van and I have to drive to Florida.
我只是想踏入未知，而这正是我内心正在做的事。
And I just wanted to set out into the unknown, which is exactly what I was doing inwardly.
我也开始感到极度压抑和窒息，因为我几乎连续两年不停地忙于经营婚姻，所有事情都围绕着我的关系。
I also was starting to feel so confined and claustrophobic from having just spent basically two years nonstop working on my marriage and having everything be about my relationship.
我当时就想，我真的、真的想花一些专注的时间来经营我和自己的关系。
And I was like, I really, really wanted to spend some intensive time on my relationship with myself.
我想，我们能不能先暂时放下一切，好好生活一段时间？
I was like, can we just live for a while?
那我呢？这次能不能考虑一下我？
What about me for once?
是的。
Yeah.
那我呢？
What about me for once?
所以我就是想走。
And so I I just wanted to go.
这会不会是五年前的林迪根本无法想象自己会做的事？
Was this something that, I don't know, Lindy of five years prior would ever conceive of herself doing?
不会。
No.
不会。
No.
绝对不可能。
Absolutely not.
五年前的林迪迫切希望阿哈能和她一起做些活动。
Lindy of five years prior was desperate for Aham to do activities with her.
我根本不会，而且我也不敢把他一个人留在家里。
I just would never, and I would have been scared to leave him home alone.
我的意思是，我走的时候，他会爱上别人吗？
Like, know, is he gonna fall in love with someone else while I'm gone?
那我出去之后要做什么呢
And what am I gonna do with
这正是我想问的。
That's my question.
因为公路旅行听起来很棒，但这也确实给了Aham和Roya很多独处的时间。
Because a road trip sounds amazing, but it also does give Aham and Roya a lot of time to be together alone.
你有没有想过这一点？
Did that cross your mind?
我肯定想过，但我根本不在乎，因为我太专注于想做这件事了。
I'm sure it crossed my mind, but I didn't care because I was so hyper focused on this thing that I wanted to do.
而且因为我已经取得了很大进展。
And because I I had made a lot of progress.
我当时想，太好了。
I was like, great.
在我离开的时候多陪陪罗伊。
Spend time with Roy when I'm gone.
这并不太有力量。
That I don't very powerful.
是的。
Yeah.
那确实感觉很有力量。
It did feel powerful.
我不希望听起来像是我在为非monogamy找借口，或者是在说服自己去做，仅仅因为阿哈姆想这么做。
And I don't want it to sound like I'm sort of rationalizing how to do non monogamy or not rationalizing, like convincing myself to do it because Aham wants to do it.
一开始，我确实这么做了。
At the beginning, absolutely, I was doing that.
但到了现在，当我们已经这样做了，他要离开，我感受到这种自由、轻松和开放时，我开始觉得，这样更好。
By this point, when we've already been doing it, and he's going away, and I'm feeling this freedom and and lightness and openness, I'm starting to be like, this is better.
对我来说，偶尔让丈夫离开一下挺好的。
For me, it's nice to have a husband break sometimes.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
你知道，就像，嗯哼。
You know, like, I Uh-huh.
到目前为止，我觉得一个人不应该成为你生活的全部，这真的让我很有共鸣。
It actually feels very true to me at this point that one person shouldn't be your whole life.
这并不意味着你必须和别人保持关系之类的，但你肯定应该和自己建立关系。
And that doesn't mean you have to be in a relationship with other people or whatever, but you should be in a relationship with yourself for sure.
这并不是我在说服自己去做阿哈姆想做的事。
And this isn't me convincing myself to do something that Aham wanted to do.
到目前为止，我真的非常喜欢，也很想进一步探索。
At this point, I really I really liked it, and I was curious to explore it more.
你在路上和Aham的联系怎么样？
What's your contact like with Aham while you're on the road?
联系嘛，我觉得时断时续，但很强烈。
Contact is, I would say, sporadic but intense.
但在离开之前，发生了一件关键的事，我和Aham约了个小约会，像一次短途旅行。
But a kind of pivotal thing happened right before I left where Aham and I had like a little date, like little getaway.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我们去住了一晚酒店，玩得特别开心，很浪漫也很可爱。
We went and stayed at a hotel for a night, and it was really fun and and like romantic and cute.
那天晚上，我第一次问他：能再详细跟我讲讲Roya吗？
And that night was the first time I was like, tell me about Roya, like in more detail.
你知道，他就描述了她，而我并没有因此感到害怕。
Like, but you know, he just described her and I just let it not scare me.
然后我就问：Roya是怎么看我的？
And then I was like, what does Roya think about me?
他说：‘嗯，她对你有好感。’
And he was like, well, she has a crush on you.
我当时说：‘什么？’
And I was like, excuse me?
这发生在你出发旅行之前吧？
And this was before you went on the road trip.
你被告知有人对你有好感。
You you were told that you had a crush.
而且，说实话，没有什么比得知有人喜欢你更让人激动的了。
Well, and let's just say, there's nothing more electric than finding out someone has a crush on you.
我说得对吧？
Am I right?
我的意思是，这简直就像是世界上最美好的礼物。
I mean, it's just it it's it's like the greatest gift in the world.
当然，除了承诺、爱情之类的别的东西。
Besides, I don't know, like, commitment or love or whatever.
我的意思是，这就像是，就像是，
I mean, it's just like it's like,
这让你感觉怎么样？
how did that make you feel?
这感觉非常强烈。
It it it was very powerful.
我立刻就想，哦，我突然之间更喜欢她了。
I was immediately like, oh, I I like her a lot more all of a sudden.
你看，这正是我想说的。
See, and that's what I was gonna say.
没有什么比发现对方喜欢你，更能让你更喜欢对方了。
There's no more surefire way to like someone more than figuring out that they like you.
这就像是，你很棒。
It's like, you're awesome.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯。
Mhmm.
对。
Yeah.
我就是这么想的。
I was like exactly.
我当时就想，哇，她听起来挺酷的。
I was like, wow, she sounds pretty cool.
而且我当时就想，没错，我确实这么觉得，这太有趣了，因为这种反应简直就是自恋式的——突然间我就很喜欢她了。
And I was like, yeah, I definitely and that's it's so funny because it's what a narcissistic response to be like, oh, I like her all of a sudden.
我的意思是，
I mean,
这正是人性的体现。
that's just the human
本性。
condition.
是的。
Yeah.
这很正常。
It's it's normal.
这说得通。
It makes sense.
我不确定我是不是对她有好感，
I don't know if I have a crush on her,
但对。
but Yeah.
意思是不。
Like That mean no.
我觉得这其实是一个非常重要的动态转变，你知道吗，因为我们之前谈过，那个阿哈姆约会的、无名无姓的人，嗯。
I think that's a really that's a it's a really important dynamic shift, actually, you know, because we talked before about how, you know, sort of nameless, faceless person that Aham was dating Mhmm.
对你来说威胁等级是100。
Was threat level a 100 for you.
对吧？
Right?
而现在，你知道，已经发生了太多变化。
And now, you know, I mean, so much has already changed.
但至少，要引入这个想法——至少在吸引力的一个方向上，比如暗恋。
But, like, to introduce this idea, at least, you know, in one direction of attraction, of a crush.
我的意思是，这使得情况从威胁转变为可能的渴望，或者至少是某种联系。
I mean, that that changes this from threat to potentially desire or at least connection.
这种感觉是的。
And that feels Yeah.
这种感觉像是某种东西。
That feels like something.
而且，老实说，这是整整一年来我第一次感到完全平静。
And it it was honestly the first time in, like, a year that I felt, I think, totally calm.
哇哦。
Woah.
你知道吧？
You know?
因为她之前一直是个充满神秘和猜疑的大谜团。
Because she had just been this big cloud of mystery and suspicion.
我当时就想，我怎么知道她不是在想办法甩掉我，好让你们俩在一起？
And I was like, how do I know that she's not trying to get rid of me so that you guys can be together?
她现在在外面某个地方。
And she's out there somewhere.
她不会像我脑子里想的那样，觉得那些恶心的事情。
She's not out there thinking the vile stuff that is happening in my head.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
她在外面想着，琳迪真美。
She's out there thinking, oh, Lindy's beautiful.
她看起来那么聪明又有趣。
I and she seems so smart and interesting.
我真的很想了解林迪。
I would love to get to know Lindy.
我在旅途中一边和阿哈姆发短信、打电话，一边处理自己对罗亚感受的变化，简直不知道该怎么形容。
And I I'm processing my changing feelings about Roya while I'm on the road trip, texting with Aham, talking to him on the phone, and being like how do I even describe it?
因为真正发生的是，我和阿哈姆聊天时，总是让他多讲讲罗亚对我有好感的事。
Because what's really happening is that I'm talking to Aham and being like, tell me more about Roy having a crush on me.
我有点执着于这个想法。
Like, I'm like kind of fixated on this idea.
是的。
Yeah.
我怎么也摆脱不了这个念头。
And I can't get it out of my head.
我开始变得特别好奇。
And I'm like, you know, I start to get really curious.
你们俩到底在做什么？
Like, what are you guys doing?
你最近和我们的朋友一起出去玩了吗？
Who are you are you hanging out with any of our friends?
你去我们最喜欢的餐厅了吗？
Are you going to our favorite restaurants?
你吃些什么？
What are you eating?
你住在哪里？
Where are you staying?
发生什么事了？
What's happening?
你知道吗，我只是突然对了解你那边的情况产生了很自然的执念，嗯，就是想知道到底怎么样。
You know, I I just had this very organic fixation on kinda knowing what was Yeah.
到底怎么了。
What was up.
你是带着一种暧昧的方式，还是像在监视一样？
In like a sexy way or in like a surveillance way?
不是那种监视的方式。
In like, not a surveillance way.
是的。
Yeah.
我还不至于说是一种性感的方式。
I I I'm not gonna go so far as to say a sexy way.
当然。
Sure.
当然。
Sure.
但那更像是一种中立的、纯粹出于好奇的方式。
But it was like a neutral way or just a just a just a curious way.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我明白
I get
懂的。
it.
你懂的？
You know?
我只是想，那边怎么了？
I just was like, what's up over there?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
你懂的？
You know?
而且并不觉得受到威胁。
And not feeling threatened by it.
听起来像是出于好奇，而不是感到威胁。
It sounds like curious, not threatened.
而且我觉得我开始被那种感觉深深安抚了，我就像上瘾了一样，渴望一直保持这种安全感，想继续下去。
And and I think I started to feel so soothed by I got it's like I got addicted to that feeling of safety, and I wanted to keep doing it.
你懂吗？
You know?
你明白我的意思吗？
Do you know what I mean?
比如，当阿哈姆提到罗伊的名字时，我不再感到一阵恐慌，因为我之前一直处于恐惧状态，差不多有一年了，天啊。
Like, I liked the feeling of not having a stab of panic when Aham brought up Roy's name because I had been in this fear state for, like, a year Wow.
我担心有人会夺走我的生命。
That someone was gonna take my life away.
突然间，我不再有那种感觉了。
And I was like, all of a sudden, I wasn't having that anymore.
于是我心想，这是个什么新状态？
And I was like, what is this new place?
我想留在这里，在这里我突然感觉什么都没有。
I wanna stay here where I feel suddenly, I feel nothing.
而且不是那种彻底的空无，而是一种带着些许美好感觉的空无。
And not necessarily nothing, like nothing with a hint of something nice.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，这是一种胜利般的空无。
I mean, it's it's this like triumphant nothing.
对。
Yeah.
你知道的。
You know
你明白我的意思吗？
what I mean?
就是这样。
It's like Yeah.
我和你知道，阿哈姆和罗亚的关系状况并没有改变。
And I and I you know, the circumstances of Aham and Roya's relationship haven't changed.
相反，它们变得更加强烈了。
If anything, they've intensified.
你比以往任何时候都更清楚，但也比以往任何时候都更遥远了。
And and you're more clued in than ever before, and you're farther away than ever before.
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
所以你感受到的安全感，那是你自己的。
So the safety you feel, that's you.
我的意思是，是你自己创造了这种安全感。
I mean, you've created that safety.
不是吗？
No?
是的。
Yes.
当然。
Absolutely.
这就是为什么我觉得情况不同了。
And that's why it was different, I think.
所以旅程还在继续。
So the trip continues.
据我回忆，我越来越频繁地和阿哈姆谈论罗亚。
And in my recollection, I'm talking to Aham more and more about Roya.
我不太记得具体细节了。
And I I don't remember specifically.
我买了一部存储空间很小的手机，所以所有的短信都没了。
And I bought a phone that has like no storage on it, so all my texts are gone.
所以很遗憾，我无法回溯查看了。
So I can't look back, unfortunately.
但我相信发生的事情是这样的。
But I believe what happened was this.
我打赌Aham在得到Roya同意的情况下，给我发了一张她的性感内衣照。
I bet Aham sent me like a sexy underwear pic of Roya with her consent.
因为我觉得他们也在谈论我。
Because I I think they were talking about me also.
因为那就是啊啊，如果你想引起我的注意，你说‘我们一直在聊你’，
Because that's oh oh, if you wanna get me if you say we've been talking about you,
天哪。
oh boy.
是好事。
In a good way.
是好事。
In a good way.
是好事。
In a good way.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
哦，对的
Oh, Yeah.
因为我记得他明确说过，罗伊和我经常提到你。
I because I definitely remember him saying like, Roy and I have been talking about you a lot.
所以我肯定他发给我一张罗伊的可爱照片
So I I I'm I'm sure he sent me like a cute pic of Roy
嗯嗯
Mhmm.
嗯嗯
Mhmm.
很可爱。
Being cute.
我当时就想，好吧，你可以告诉她那张照片很漂亮之类的。
And I was like, okay, you can tell her that that's a beautiful photo or whatever.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我真是个书呆子。
So I'm such I'm such a dork.
你可以告诉她，那张照片很漂亮。
You may tell her that that is a beautiful photo.
我的意思是，我就是觉得。
I mean, I that's
一种调情的方式。
a way to sext.
挺正式的，但我觉得挺管用的。
It's formal, but I'd say it works.
是的。
Yeah.
对，没错。
I I yeah.
顺便说一句，林迪·韦斯特根本不会发暧昧信息。
Side note, Lindy West absolutely incapable of sexting.
但与此同时，我也在以某种方式重新联系阿哈姆。
But so then I'm like, also throughout this, I'm reconnecting with Aham, I think in in certain ways too.
有一个可以发暧昧短信的异地男友，真的很有趣。
Like, it's fun to have like a long distance boyfriend that you can have flirty texts with.
每当我与过去的生活分离、独自一人时，都感觉更有趣了，仿佛开启了新生活，有了新的滋味。
Like, every part of of separating myself from my old life and spending time alone is more fun and has kind of a new life and a new flavor.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
太棒了。
That rocks.
我知道。
I know.
我和Aham在调情。
It's like so Aham and I are flirting.
我在问Roya的事。
I'm asking about Roya.
我们在发性感的短信。
We're having like sexy texts.
很可爱。
It's cute.
然后我想，我这辈子第一次觉得自己有魅力。
And then I was like, I think I was feeling sexy for once ever in my life.
我拍了一张穿着内衣的可爱照片，因为我太无聊了。
And I took like a cute picture in my underwear because also I'm bored.
我每天一整天都独自一人，坐在车里穿越阿肯色州，诸如此类。
I'm just alone every day, all day in a van driving through Arkansas, whatever.
所以我给Aham发了一张穿内裤的可爱照片，然后我说，如果你愿意的话，可以把这张照片给Roya看看。
So I sent Aham a cute picture in my underpants, and I was like and I was like, I think you could show this to Roya if you want.
然后他真的发了。
And then he did.
接着他说，Roya想知道她能不能跟你聊聊你的照片。
And then he was like, Roya wants to know if she can text you about your picture.
我说，好的。
And I said, okay.
然后她发消息给我，说：Aham给我发了你的一张美照。
And then she was like and then she texted me and was like, Aham sent me a beautiful picture of you.
你看起来太性感了，随便吧。
You look so sexy, whatever.
我当时就说
And I was like
你像火一样，我
You like fire I'm
是的。
Yeah.
我当时想，我在干什么？
I I was like, what am I doing?
这事儿，我知道这太疯狂了。
This and I knew that this was crazy.
我在干什么？
What am I doing?
做这种事太疯狂了。
This is a crazy thing to be doing.
为什么？
Why?
什么？为什么？
What's what's why?
什么？
What?
哦，我的意思是，我不该说疯狂。
Oh, well, I mean, I shouldn't say crazy.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
我不是在纠结这个词。
I didn't it's not even that I'm quibbling with the word.
我只是觉得
I'm just like
不。
No.
我知道。
I know.
知道。
Know.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，这只是一件不太可能发生的事。
Well, just a it's just an unlikely thing to have happen.
对你来说。
For you.
对你，对你来说，因为这到底是什么？
For you for you because it's it's what?
是勇敢吗？
It's it's brave?
是具有挑衅性吗？
It's provocative?
为什么呢？
Like, why?
是的。
Yeah.
我并不是在所有方面都勇敢，我只是在某些方面勇敢。
I am not brave in I'm brave in certain ways.
在很多方面，我并不勇敢。
In many ways, I am not brave.
而这就是我不勇敢的一个方面。
And this is one of the ways in which I am not brave.
我不，我，我在性方面。
I'm not I I I Sexually.
是的。
Yeah.
我想是吧。
I guess so.
是的。
Yeah.
而且，我觉得我在写作中让自己变得非常脆弱，因为实际上我在某些方面很难真正敞开心扉。
And also, just in I think that I make myself really vulnerable in my writing because actually, I have a hard time being vulnerable in certain ways.
所以这就像一个烟雾弹。
So it's like a decoy.
就像是，看啊，我在这里对这些事情表现得多么脆弱，但其实我并没有真的感到那么脆弱，是的。
Like, it's like, oh, look how vulnerable I am over here about these things that I don't actually feel that vulnerable Yeah.
但我愿意分享。
But I'm willing to share.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Right.
于是人们就给我很多赞誉，说我非常勇敢、坦诚。
And so then people I get all this credit for being, like, so brave and vulnerable.
但事实上，我非常紧绷、害怕，也很保守。
But really, I'm like very tightly tight tightly wound and and afraid and private.
我非常、非常、非常注重隐私。
I'm very, very, very private.
所以当我向一个新人敞开心扉时，我确实会，而且我对性有一些奇怪的心理负担。
And so to open up to a new person and I do and I have weird baggage around sex.
正如我多次提到的，我真的很害怕别人如何看待我的身体。
And I and I as I've mentioned many times, like, really am afraid of the way people perceive my body.
我不，我被灌输了这样的观念：看待自己的身体是一种噩梦。
I don't I I I have been conditioned to believe that viewing my body is a nightmare.
我不想，但我和阿哈在一起很安全，因为我们已经在一起十年了。
Like, I don't want and I feel safe with Aham because we've been together ten years.
我知道他爱我，他见过我二十岁、三十岁和四十岁时的身体。
I know that he loves me and he's seen my body, you know, in my twenties, thirties, and forties.
但那仍然是我最害怕、最不敢跨越的巨大深渊。
But it it was it's just like my my biggest scariest chasm that I that I don't cross.
但这件事确实与这次公路旅行的氛围非常契合。
And but I but it felt so in keeping with the road trip itself.
我就想，谁在乎啊？
Like, I was like, who fucking cares?
天啊。
Oh my god.
我能不能就活在当下，做点冲动但感觉对我的事，而不是把每件事都想得太过分？
Can I just live and just do something impulsive that feels right to me in this moment and not think everything to death?
为什么别人能拥有充满活力、好奇又刺激的性生活和浪漫关系，而我却剥夺了自己这些？
And why do other people get to have vibrant, curious, exciting sex lives and romantic lives and connections with other people, and I deny myself that?
为什么我总是躲着？
Why do I just hide all the time?
那我为什么不干脆让自己去生活，看看会发生什么？
And, why don't I just let myself live and just see what happens?
所以我就这么做了。
And so I so I did.
这是
This is
我被这个深深吸引了。
I am so charmed by that.
而且，这感觉像是有人曾经有过最富有反思性的、关于发性感照片前的思绪。
And also, it just feels like some of the most reflective pre sexy pic thoughts maybe someone's ever had.
你知道吗，当我发一张可爱的照片时，我会想，我看起来真不错。
You know, like, when I'm sending like a cute pic, I'm like, I look good.
发吧。
Ship it.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
我到底是哪种人？
And you're like type of person am I?
是的。
Yeah.
存在主义漩涡。
Existential spiral.
懂。
Know.
好吧。
Alright.
所以我知道。
So you I know.
你有这些，我的意思是，那边的反思，但你发了这个东西。
You have this you have this I mean, reckonings over there, but it's like you send this thing.
那现在呢？
So what now?
就像是，好吧。
It's like, okay.
所以我们大家都互相发过性感照片。
So we've all shared sexy pics with each other.
等等……
Dot dot dot.
我觉得接下来我们需要做的，就是赶紧开个电话会议，好好聊聊到底发生了什么。
I think it becomes clear that the next thing we need to do is, like, hop on a call and, like, discuss what the heck is going on.
我现在正开车经过肯塔基州。
And so I'm driving through Kentucky.
啊哈，罗伊给我发消息说，西雅图正经历一场非常可怕的热浪。
Aham and Roy has sent me they were having a a very terrifying heat wave in Seattle.
西雅图的气温高达111华氏度。
It was like a 111 degrees in Seattle.
天哪。
Oh my god.
我记得是这样的。
Here's what I remember.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我停下来加油了。
I stopped for gas.
我从面包车里走了出来。
I stepped out of the van.
肯塔基州简直像个桑拿房。
Kentucky was like a sauna.
我的车窗立刻起雾了。
Like, my glass is immediately fogged up.
我立刻汗流浃背。
I'm sweating instantly.
这简直是个噩梦。
It's a nightmare.
我在加油。
I'm pumping the gas.
我看了看手机。
I look at my phone.
我看到一张阿哈姆和罗亚坐在西雅图酒吧里的自拍。
There's like a selfie from Aham and Royah sitting at a bar in Seattle.
然后我去了一家万豪酒店，Aham和Royah给我视频通话，我就问你们俩还好吗？
And I went to a Marriott, and then Aham and Roy video called me, and then I was like, are you guys okay?
你们是不是中暑了？
Are you are you dying of heat stroke?
那个地方热吗？
Like, it it Was it hot?
是气温高，还是区域热？
Hot temperature or hot section?
嗯，我知道。
Well, I know.
肯塔基和西雅图现在都热。
Hot in Kentucky and Seattle at this point.
不。
No.
你说的热，是指那种性方面的热吗？
Was it hot, like, sexually?
是的。
Yeah.
你当时
Were you
被撩起了吗？
turned on?
我觉得是的。
I think so.
是的。
Yeah.
当时空气中确实充满了紧张感。
There was, like, definitely incredible tension in the air.
你知道的吗？
You know?
就像我觉得，我们所有人都在想，天哪。
It was like I think I think all of us were like, oh my god.
天哪。
Oh my god.
我的天。
My god.
天哪。
Oh my god.
而且，我也不想让这听起来很简单，因为我自己这部分仍然感到害怕。
And and also, I don't wanna make it sound easy because also there's still the part of me that's terrified.
这是我第一次亲眼看到他们两人在一起，而我却不在场，他们却在一起。
And this is the first time I'm confronted with, like, seeing the two of them together, and I'm away and they're together.
你知道吗，他们俩依偎在酒吧里，享受着空调的凉爽。
And, you know, they're like entwined sitting at at the bar in the air conditioning.
因此，我内心有两个狼在搏斗。
And and and so it's like inside me are two wolves.
一个狼正玩得不亦乐乎，被这一切深深震撼。
One is having the time of her life and is like so electrified by this.
另一个则 definitely 恐惧不已。
And the other one is is definitely terrified.
你知道吗，我的侵入性想法一直在疯狂运转，告诉我这并不真实。
And, you know, my my intrusive thoughts were working overtime being like, this isn't real.
他们其实并不需要你。
They don't really want you.
看看他是多么喜欢她，远超过喜欢你。
Look how he likes look how much he likes her more than he likes you.
看看他对她有多亲密。
Look how affectionate he is with her.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
我的大脑所能想到的最刻薄的想法，都在背后不停地循环播放，你知道吗？
Like, all the all the meanest stuff that my brain can come up with is running on a little loop in the back, you know?
然后我运用新学到的技巧，让这些想法只是掠过，保持当下，专注于眼前真正发生的事——我正与这个美丽、温柔、善良、幽默、聪明的人深深相连，她爱阿哈，我也爱阿哈。
And then I'm using my new skills to sort of let them pass through and stay in the moment with what's actually happening in front of me, which is that I'm feeling really connected with this person who's beautiful and sweet and kind and funny and smart and and who who loves Aham, and I love Aham.
是的。
And yeah.
我不知道。
I don't know.
这非常复杂。
It it was a very complicated
对。
Yeah.
视频通话。
Video call.
但也很有趣。
But also fun.
而且我也觉得挺有趣的。
And I and I But also fun.
所有这些事情都在后台发生着。
And it's it's like all this stuff is happening under the hood.
但当时在那个通话的当下，确实是这样。
But then also, in the in the present moment of that call, it's Yeah.
我可以问你一下吗？你似乎真的对罗伊斯有好感？
Can I ask you, like, you're feeling attracted to Royce, actually, it sounds like?
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
当然。
For sure.
你以前对女性有过好感吗？
Had you been attracted to women in the past?
我的意思是，只是随便想想，不是那种认真的。
I mean, kind of idly, not like professionally.
你知道的？
You know?
小联盟。
Minor league.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我觉得我可能以为每个人对女性都有一些基本的吸引力，因为女性显然是最棒的。
I mean, I feel like I feel like I think maybe I thought everyone has some default baseline attraction to women because women are obviously the best.
她们就像
They're like
说一遍。
Say that.
漂亮，而且是的。
Pretty and yeah.
所以我想我只是觉得，谁会不喜欢女人呢。
So I think I just was like, well, who doesn't kind of like women.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
每个人都是。
Everyone.
所以我从没，我不曾
So I never I don't
想
think
我并没有深究过这一点。
I interrogated that much.
我知道自己基本上是异性恋，但同时也觉得，其实我也没太在意。
My I I knew that I was sort of mostly straight, but also oh, but also I didn't really care that much.
我当时就想，是的。
I was like, yeah.
当然。
Sure.
我
I
我的意思是，是的。
mean Yeah.
谁对我感兴趣？
Who's into me?
外面到底发生了什么？
What's what's going on out there?
谁在逼我？
Who's pressure me?
如果你要逼我，就举手。
Raise your hand if you're gonna pressure me.
和我们在一起吧。
Stay with us.
最终，这次旅行总要结束。
Eventually, the trip has to end.
一个月后，你回到西雅图时，罗亚在吗？
After a month, when you came back to Seattle, was Roya there?
不在。
No.
她没在。
She wasn't there.
但我7月7日或8日回来的，而阿哈姆的生日是7月30日。
But I got back on July 7 or eighth, and Aham's birthday is July 30.
阿哈姆在他生日那天有场演出。
And Aham had a show on his birthday.
他是个音乐人。
He's a musician.
所以我建议说，为什么不让罗伊来西雅图参加你的生日演出呢？
And so I think I suggested, why doesn't Roy come up to Seattle for your birthday show?
然后
And then
他当时说
And he was like
我们看看会发生什么。
We'll see what happens.
哦，他当时说：这是我的梦想。
Oh, he was like This is my dream.
是的。
Yeah.
天哪。
Oh god.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我当时就说，我不知道。
I mean, was like, I don't know.
我不知道会发生什么，也许我还会再见到她，然后我会说，不，我觉得不太可能。
I don't know what's gonna you know, maybe I'll meet her again and and I'll I'll be like no, I'm I don't think so.
我不行，我不能，我对这个没兴趣，不管是什么。
I'm not I can't I'm not in I'm not into this, whatever.
我不知道接下来会发生什么。
I didn't know what was gonna happen.
但我们那边的群聊还是很热闹，好吧。
But I but we were still like we the group chat was popping off Okay.
所以我挺确定我会喜欢上现实中的罗亚，但我不确定。
This whole So I was pretty sure that I was gonna like Roya in person, but I didn't know.
当然。
Sure.
于是她来到了西雅图。
And, so she came up to Seattle.
我去火车站接了她。
I picked her up at the train station.
Aham当时正在彩排。
Aham was like at soundcheck.
我一个人去接她。
I went by myself to pick her up.
这也是我的主意，我觉得。
Also my idea, I think.
我当时就觉得她立刻就让人着迷。
And I was like she was instantly captivating.
她真的特别漂亮，阳光又爱笑，
Like, was just so pretty and so sunny and smiley and
一个哥特风的女孩居然这么阳光。
Sunny for a goth.
酷。
Cool.
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