第三次约会时，我要求开设联名银行账户（重播）

……每一顿晚餐都是这样。

... for every single dinner.

所以当时我心里想的是：“哦，这比我以前在约会上的投入还少呢。”

So in my mind, I was like, "Oh, it's still less than what I was investing in previous dates."

你心里想的是：“看吧，我在这些约会上不能再多花钱了。”

You're like, "Look, I couldn't be spending any more money on these dates."

你已经把这套说辞练得炉火纯青了。

You had this pitch perfected, as it were.

你有了这个想法，所有要点都考虑周全了。

You had this idea, all of the different points locked down.

你做过调研了。

You'd researched it.

真正见真章的时候，是你把这个想法实际向一个人提出来的时候。

The real rubber meets the road when you actually pitch it to a person.

告诉我，你把这个想法提给了谁？

Tell me who the person you pitched this idea to was.

那个幸运的家伙是谁？

Who was the lucky guy?

他叫Aodhán。

His name is Aodhán.

那是我们第三次约会。

And it was our third date.

我们是在Bumble上认识的。

We had met on Bumble.

我对他了解不多。

I didn't know much about him.

我知道他来自爱尔兰。

I knew he was from Ireland.

我知道他刚从商学院毕业，在旧金山做科技行业的第一年，还知道他住在圣马特奥，离我当时住的旧金山大概20分钟车程。

I knew he had just gotten out of business school and was his first year in tech in San Francisco, and I knew he lived in San Mateo, which is about 20 minutes away from me in San Francisco, where I was living at the time.

除此之外，我对他就不太了解了。

Beyond that, I didn't know much else about him.

不过，我确实能感觉到，如果要说他的举止或性格，那就是他非常平静，是个温柔的人，非常善良。

I did know, though, if I were to perceive anything about his demeanor or his personality, it was that he was quite calm, a gentle kind of soul, very kind.

一个人刚走进门，你就能感觉到他是怎样的人。

Immediately when someone walks in the door, you can sense who they are.

就像，"哦，他是那种..."

Like, "Oh, this is the kind of guy..."

所以让我先退一步说，我——

So let me back up and say, I-

当一个人走进房间时，我能立刻想象或幻想和他们在一起的生活会是什么样子——

When a person walks in the room, I can instantly project or fantasize about what life might be like with them-

...如果我结婚了的话。

... if I were married.

有些男人一走进房间，你就会想，"哦，这就是那种我会和他一起跳伞的人。"

And some guys just walk into the room, and you're like, "Oh, this is the kind of guy I'm going to go jump out of a plane with."

"那就是我们未来的生活。"

"That's going to be our life together."

当Aodhán走进房间时，我心里想：“哦，这就是那种我愿意和他一起喝茶，看着羊群从窗外草地上走过的人。”

And when Aodhán walked into the room, I was like, "Oh, this is the kind of guy I'm going to enjoy a cup of tea with as we watch sheep cross the meadows from our window."

哇。

Whoa.

你懂吗？

You know?

我挺喜欢的。

I kind of dig it.

那对你有吸引力吗？

Was that attractive to you?

你想要那样的生活吗？

Did you want that?

说实话，当时我并不这么觉得。

I didn't think so at the time, to be honest.

我那时还处在想和某人一起跳伞的人生阶段。

I was still in the phase of my life where I wanted to be jumping out of planes with someone.

所以跟奥德汉提联名账户这事，我没什么好失去的，因为我觉得他不太是我的菜，但你知道的。

And so there was nothing to lose with Aodhán and this pitch for a joint bank account because I was like, "He's not quite my type, but you know."

他是那个养羊的。

He's the sheep guy.

我想要的是跳伞的那个。

I want the plane guy.

有意思。

Interesting.

所以你当时觉得，这事没什么风险。

So you kind of were like, it felt low stakes.

对。

Yes.

坐在我对面的那个人，我们之间的关系感觉没什么风险，但提议开联名账户这件事风险确实很高，因为那是我第一次觉得自己真的在冒险。

The man sitting across from me and our relationship felt low stakes, but the proposal to do a joint bank account was certainly very high stakes because it was the first time that I felt like I was really putting myself out there.

说实话，当时我提这个提议的对象，换成谁都行。

To be honest, he could've been anyone that I pitched this to.

网上约会嘛，这都不重要。

With online dating, it doesn't matter.

如果这次约会不顺利，你就再去见一个，然后再见一个。

If this date was a bust, you just go on another date, and then you go on another date after that.

我觉得你刚才说的这个区别特别重要。

I think that's a really important distinction you just made.

那个人其实没那么重要，但这个提议很重要，我想再深入聊聊这个。

The guy didn't matter so much, but this pitch did, and I guess I want to push on that a little.

就是说，你当时怕发生什么？

It's like, what were you afraid would happen?

你提出这个建议。

You'd make this pitch.

你做了充分准备。

It's well-researched.

逻辑也很严密。

It's tight.

你有个演示文稿。

You have a deck.

我在开玩笑，但你确实可以准备一个演示文稿。

I'm joking, but you might as well have a deck.

你当时害怕如果这个人拒绝会发生什么？

What were you afraid would happen if this person said no?

我想如果他拒绝了也没关系。你只需要向下一个人推销，但确实是这样。

I guess it doesn't matter if he said no. You just pitch to the next person, but yeah.

你以一种以前约会时从未有过的方式敞开了心扉。

You were opening up in this way you hadn't before on a date.

我确实有演示文稿，安娜。

I did have a deck, Anna.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, you did?

而且我本来打算在需要的时候拿出来。

And I was going to bring it out if I needed to.

真的吗？

You did?

你包里还带了iPad？

You had an iPad in your bag?

在手机里。

It was on my phone.

但说实话，如果对方拒绝了我的提案，我会觉得他们是在拒绝我这个人，因为——

But honestly, if they rejected my proposal, it would've felt like they were rejecting me because-

……

...

我在约会中花了太多时间，努力去成为别人眼中理想的晚餐对象。

I spent so much of my dating experience trying to be someone I thought people wanted to be sitting across from at dinner.

我年轻时，尤其是高中那几年，花了很多年去否认自己华裔的身份，试图——

I spent so many years of my youth, especially teenage high school years, rejecting the Chinese side of my identity and trying-

……融入主流。

... to fit into mainstream.

直到那一刻，我想到要提出开联名账户这个主意，我才终于觉得自己是带着真实的自己去赴约的。

And it wasn't until that moment where I had the idea to pitch this joint bank account that I finally felt like I was bringing myself to the table.

我终于把那些我一直藏着掖着的东西，带给了那个我可能共度余生的人。

I was finally bringing all the stuff that I felt like I was hiding to the person that I would potentially be spending the rest of my life from.

我心里想：“我为什么要对这个人隐瞒这些呢？”

And in my mind, I was thinking, "Why would I hide this from this person?

如果我来这次约会是为了找到——

If I'm on this date with the objective to find-"

——那个我想结婚、共度余生的人，那这就不该再是我需要隐藏的一部分了。

... "the person I wanted to marry and spend the rest of my life with, this is not an aspect of myself I should hide any longer."

所以，是的，如果Aodhán拒绝了我，我肯定会崩溃的。

And so yeah, if Aodhán rejected me, I would've been crushed.

哇。

Wow.

但后来我告诉自己：“还有下一个，还有下下一个。”

But then I told myself, "There's the next guy and the guy after that.

所以也许没关系。

So maybe it's okay.

也许我也可以勇敢一次。

Maybe I can be bold for once."

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

我是蕾·钟。

I'm Rae Jong.

我为《纽约时报》报道气候和环境新闻。

I cover climate and the environment for The New York Times.

我最近在一艘考察船上待了八周，去了南极。

I recently spent eight weeks on a research ship going to Antarctica.

地球正在变暖。

The planet's getting warmer.

冰正在融化。

Ice is melting away.

海平面上升将会改变我们的沿海城市。

Sea level rise is going to change our coastal cities.

读科学家写的论文是一回事，但亲身和他们待在一起完全是另一回事。

It's one thing to read about what scientists have discovered when they write papers, but it's another thing entirely to be there with them.

这就是我们在《纽约时报》所做的工作。

This is what we do at The New York Times.

我们想把你们带到那些对我们如何生活在这个世界上至关重要的重大新闻事件中去。

We want to bring you closer to the biggest stories that matter for how we all live in the world.

如果你愿意支持我们的工作，可以在nytimes.com/subscribe订阅我们的内容。

If you'd like to support this work, you can become a subscriber at nytimes.com/subscribe.

所以，你来到了这一天。

So you get to this date.

这是你和Aodhán的第三次约会。

It's your third date with Aodhán.

照片已经加载到手机上了。

Picture's loaded up on the phone.

跟我说说那个时刻吧。

Bring me into that moment.

你坐到桌子前。

You sit down at the table.

你会在一开始吃饭的时候就提这件事吗？

Do you bring it up right at the beginning of the meal?

不，我会确保这顿饭吃得很愉快。

No, I make sure we have a really lovely meal.

我特意点了很好的菜，我们聊得很开心，气氛也很好，这样当那一刻来临，账单放到桌上时，我就可以展示这个了。

I made sure to order really good food, and we were enjoying ourselves, had great conversation, so that when the moment came, when the bill landed on the table, I could make this presentation.

你慢点说，仔细讲讲。

Slow this down for me.

服务员把账单送来。

The waiter drops it off.

平时你肯定会抢着结账的。

Normally, you'd claw for this.

那你换一种方式怎么做？

What do you do instead?

我会说："嗨，我能跟你说个事吗？

I say, "Hey, can I talk to you about something for a second?

就是关于现在这个时刻。"

It's about this moment."

我就不看手机了。

I'm not going to do my feed.

然后我说，我记不清具体怎么说的了，但大概就是："这个时刻对我来说，对我的家庭来说，都意义重大。你也注意到了，前两次约会我都抢着买单，你也没跟我争。

And I say, I don't remember exactly what I said, but it was something like, "This moment means a lot to me and to my family, and as you've noticed the first two dates, I've fought you to pay for this bill, and you didn't fight me back.

你让我付了，这没问题，但让我解释一下我的期望。"

You just let me pay, which is okay, but let me explain what my expectation is."

然后我解释了我们家的传统，也说了他可能很难凭直觉理解这件事。

And I explained my family ritual, and I explained that it would be hard for him to intuitively understand it.

所以我想跟你提议的，就是开一个联名账户。

And so what I'm proposing to you is a joint bank account.

暂停一下。

Pause.

对，他当然就是一副“什么？”的表情。

Yeah, and of course, he's just like, "What?"

我知道。

I know.

我正想说，好吧，我们听着呢，然后镜头一转。

I was going to say, okay, we're with you, then the camera pans.

当你说“所以我提议……”的时候，他脸上是什么表情？

What's his face doing when you say, "And so I propose..."

他以为我在开玩笑。

He thinks I'm telling a joke.

他以为我在逗他。

He thinks I'm joking.

他在笑。

He's laughing.

然后你就说："不，我是认真的。"

And then you're like, "No, I'm serious."

对，我脸上确实很严肃，所以我得等他反应过来我的表情，那感觉就像是最长的停顿。

Yeah, there was seriousness on my face, so I had to wait for him to register my expression, and it felt like the longest pause ever.

感觉整个世界都屏住呼吸，等着他意识到我对这个提议是认真的。

It felt like the whole world took a breath to wait for him to realize I was serious about this proposal.

然后当他意识到我不是在开玩笑时，当然，他的肢体语言说明了一切。

And then when he realized I wasn't joking, of course, his body language said it all.

就像他双臂交叉。

It was like he crossed his arms.

他有点往后靠在椅子上，好像想躲开我似的。

He kind of leaned back in his chair like he was trying to get away from me.

哦，不。那你感觉怎么样？

Oh, no. And how did that make you feel?

天哪，紧张死了。

Oh my God, nervous.

我当时特别紧张。

I was so anxious.

你还记得我之前跟你说的关于银行账户的那些逻辑吗？

You know everything I said to you earlier about the logic behind the bank account?

我当时可能就是在飞快地过那些逻辑。

I was probably just racing through that logic.

天哪。

Oh my God.

话都从嘴里蹦出来了。

Words were spilling out of my mouth.

我完全不知道自己在说什么。

I had no idea what I was saying.

我希望能说出点逻辑来。

I was saying some kind of logic, hopefully.

但我只记得他的肢体语言。

But all I could remember was just his body language.

他就是在慢慢往后缩。

It was just like slowly pulling away from me.

要是他能的话，他恨不得直接穿墙跑掉，墙上都会留个人形的洞。

If he could, he would've ran through the wall, and there would've been an Aodhán-shaped hole in the wall.

我就是让两个人尴尬到了那种地步。

That was the level of discomfort I had created for both of us.

然后账单来了，我直接付了，因为我觉得让他经历这些，实在太抱歉了。

And of course, the bill came, and I just paid for it because I felt so bad for what I subjected him to.

天哪。

Oh my God.

等等。

Wait.

所以账单来了。

So the bill came.

你就说，"我想跟你聊点事。"

You were like, "I want to talk to you about something."

你开始推销。

You do the pitch.

他看起来完全没兴趣。

He seems to really not be into it.

然后你就说，'你知道吗？'

And then you're like, "You know what?

算了，不干了。'

Screw this."

然后你直接掏出信用卡付了账。

And then you just put your credit card down.

你就用这种方式结束了那次邀约？

That's how you ended that pitch?

好的。

Okay.

我当时就想，你知道吗？

And I was like, you know what?

我刚刚让他经历了这段三次约会关系中最尴尬的时刻。

I just subjected him to the most uncomfortable moment in this three-date relationship.

我打算直接买单，然后我们就走人。

I'm just going to take care of the bill, and we're just going to peace out.

他可能不会再联系我了。

He's probably going to ghost me.

我再也不会见到这个人了。

I'm never going to see this guy again.

然后我们就离开了餐厅。

So then we just leave the restaurant.

哇。

Whoa.

我们先在这里停一下。

And let's just linger here for a second.

你开车或者坐地铁回家的时候，或者不管你怎么回去的，你当时感觉怎么样？

How did you feel when you were driving or on the BART, or I don't know how you're getting home from this date, but how were you feeling?

我觉得我还在从刚才的经历中缓过来。

I think I was still recovering from having gone through it.

我并没有特别去想会不会被拒绝之类的。

I wasn't necessarily thinking about being rejected or whatever.

就是觉得，哇，天哪。

It was just like, oh, wow.

我的身体还在余震中——

My body was still in aftershock-

因为做了那件事。

... of having done that.

然后直到几个小时后，我才觉得，好吧。

And then only afterwards, a few hours later that I was like, okay.

我告诉自己，我说：“好吧，你做到了。

I told myself, I was like, "Okay, you did it.

你争取了你想要的东西。”

You asked for what you wanted.

虽然这个人没答应，但还有另一个人可以约会，

You didn't get it from this guy, but there's another guy that I could go on a date with-

我会再试一次的。

... that I'm going to try again with."

所以我觉得那肯定是自信在掩盖失望。

So I think it was confidence masking disappointment, for sure.

但我不想放弃。

But I didn't want to give up on it.

我知道我不能放弃。

I knew I couldn't give up on it.

所以你原本没指望再听到Aodhán的消息？

So you weren't expecting to hear from Aodhán again?

没有。没有。

No. Mm-mm.

我以为一切都结束了。

I thought it was over.

我原本以为他会玩消失，把我拉黑，或者去Bumble上举报我是骗子。

I was expecting him to ghost me, to block me on his phone, to report me to Bumble as a scam artist.

但后来他发短信来了。

But then he texted.

我不记得是什么时候了，可能是几天之后，就是那种时候。

I can't remember when, if it was a few days later, whatever it was.

收到他的消息我真的很意外，但他发短信说：‘嘿，我们在旧金山的一家银行见面，把这个账户开了吧。’

I was really surprised to hear from him, but he texted, "Hey, let's meet at a bank in San Francisco and open this account."

好的。

Okay.

这真是最浪漫的短信了。

Most romantic text ever.

行，我们约在银行见，开个账户。

Okay, let's meet at a bank and open this account.

对你来说，这基本上就跟调情差不多了。

That's basically a sext to you at this point.

在我的世界里，是的。

In my world, yes.

哇。

Wow.

好吧。

Okay.

那你当时是什么感觉？

So how did you feel?

这对你来说太意外了。

That's so unexpected for you.

我当时就想，行，那就来吧。

I was like, okay, game on.

我们就这么干。

We're doing this.

好吧，他完全相信了我的说辞。

Okay, he totally bought my pitch.

你心里想的是，我就知道这很棒。

You're like, I knew it was great.

这简直无可辩驳。

It was undeniable.

连演示文稿都不用拿出来。

Didn't even have to bring out the deck.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

嘿，我是《纽约时报》的安娜·马丁。

Hey, it's Anna Martin from The New York Times.

如果我告诉你，你再也不用听到这句话了，你会怎么想？

What if I told you you'll never have to hear this line again?

无论你在哪里收听播客。

Wherever you get your podcasts.

对，不，其实我不能告诉你这个。

Yeah, no, I actually can't tell you that.

但你知道我能告诉你什么吗？

But you know what I can tell you?

一个我觉得你可能想去的地方。

A place I think you might want to go.

就是《纽约时报》应用里的“节目”标签页。

It's the Shows tab in The New York Times app.

这是收听，现在也可以观看《纽约时报》节目完整剧集的地方。

The place to listen to, and now watch, full episodes of New York Times Shows.

“节目”标签页。

The Shows tab.

在《纽约时报》应用里就能找到。

Find it in The New York Times app.

今天就探索“节目”标签页，关注一个节目吧。

Explore the Shows tab and follow a show today.

好，所以他说在银行见面。

Okay, so he says meet at a bank.

他选了一家旧金山的银行，我当时心里想，“你知道吗？”

He had picked a bank in San Francisco, and I was like, "You know what?

“不行，不行，不行。”我脑子里想的是，“不行，不行，我得尽量让他方便一点。”

No, no, no." In my brain, I was like, "No, no, I got to make this as easy for him as possible."

所以我就挑了他住的圣马特奥的一家银行。

And so I picked a bank in San Mateo where he lived.

那儿离他家只有六分钟的路程，我知道距离短，他就不会临阵退缩或者转身走掉。

And it was only a six-minute walk away from his apartment, so I knew that there was a short distance to get cold feet and to turn around.

我正要夸你贴心呢，结果发现是纯属策略考虑。

I was going to say, that's nice of you, but it turns out it was purely strategic.

在你去之前，你有没有问过他，“是什么让你改变了主意？”

Before you go in, did you ask him, "What changed your mind?

你之前看起来真的一点也不感兴趣。

You seemed really not into it."

然后你并没有这么问。

And then you didn't.

不，我当时特别相信那是因为我提出了绝妙的方案，我的逻辑无懈可击——就是那个说服了他。

No, I was so convinced that it was because of my brilliant proposal, my undefeatable logic- ... that convinced him.

但我要说，我们在银行门口碰面的时候，气氛挺尴尬的。

But I will say, we met in front of the bank, and it was awkward.

我们既没拥抱也没亲吻。

We didn't hug or kiss.

平时见面时有的那种打招呼的举动都没有。

Do that thing where you do when you greet each other.

而且他的肢体语言仍然透露出很多信息。

And his body language still spoke volumes.

他还是双臂交叉抱在胸前。

It was still arms crossed against his chest.

啊。

Ah.

他基本上就是人在那儿，走个流程，但还没真正意识到发生了什么。

He was kind of just there going through the motions but hadn't really processed what was happening.

但我就是想说，就接受吧。

But I was just like, "Just take it.

就接受眼前的一切吧。

Take it for what it's here."

我们要一起走下去。

"We're going to do this."

没有后悔的余地。

No buyer's remorse.

但你会不会担心，他虽然嘴上说想这么做，但看起来并不那么情愿？

But was that worrying to you that he was like, yeah, he was saying he wanted to do it, but he clearly wasn't maybe that into it?

我确实问过他：“你确定要这样吗？”

I did ask him, "Are you sure about this?"

而且我也不一定直接说出来——

And I didn't necessarily say-

因为你的身体语言完全相反——

... because your body's saying everything opposite-

当然。

Sure.

……和嘴里说的完全相反。

... of what your mouth is saying.

但他说：“是的，我确定。”

But he's like, "Yes, I'm sure."

所以我就说：“好，那我们就这么办。”

So I was like, "Okay, we're doing this."

然后我们就走进去了。

And so we walk in.

我们没有预约，但他们不忙。

We didn't have an appointment, but they weren't busy.

我们坐下来，说：“我们想开一个联名银行账户。”

And we sat down, and we said, "We want to open a joint bank account."

然后——

And-

等等，银行柜员是不是问过：“你们结婚多久了？”

Wait, did the bank teller ask, "So how long have you guys been married?"

或者类似的？

Or something?

他们问了吗？

Did that come up?

哦，问了。

Oh, yeah.

他们以为我们刚结婚，然后来开这个银行账户。

The assumption is that we just got married, and we're opening this bank account.

那你们有没有告诉他们：“我们其实刚认识？”

And so did you tell them, "We actually just met?"

说了。

Yes.

他们什么反应？

How did they react?

他们就说：‘好吧。

They were like, "Okay.

这不太常见，不过……’

That's unusual, but..."

但生意归生意。

But business is business.

生意归生意，那我给你讲讲透支费吧。

Business is business, so let me tell you about overdraft fees.

对，那真是个特别的时刻，我们俩互相看着对方，心里想：‘好吧，我们就这么办吧。

So yeah, it was quite a moment where it was just the two of us were looking at each other, and we're like, "Yeah, let's just go through this.

这是我们第四次约会，但我们就装这完全正常的第四次约会行为。’

This is our fourth date, but we're just going to pretend that this is totally normal fourth-date behavior."

当你在看那些细则的时候，你有没有担心他会退缩？

At any point when you were sort of going over the fine print, were you worried he would pull out?

当然有。

Absolutely.

我们在那儿的整个过程，我都担心他会反悔。

The whole time we were there, I was worried he was going to pull out.

每过一秒我都要看他一眼，确认他还能接受。

Every second I had to look over, I was checking in on him to make sure this was still okay for him.

让我意外的是，等我们终于要签文件的时候，他花了特别长的时间去读这个银行账户的条款和条件。

And what surprised me was, when we finally got to signing the documents, he spent an inordinate amount of time reading through the terms and conditions of this bank account.

通常这种文件我都是随便签的，根本不看。

And it's normally something that I would just sign my life away for.

我都不读的。

I don't read it.

字太小了，不值得花时间看。

It's too small to take time to look at.

但他却一页一页地翻——

But he was going through-

条款和条件一页接一页地看，看得我都烦了，心想：“这本来应该15分钟搞定的事，现在都拖到45分钟了。”

... page after page and after page of terms and conditions to the point where I was getting annoyed because I was like, "This was supposed to be a 15-minute thing, and it's turning into a 45-minute experience."

不过话说回来，他这么仔细地核对所有条款，你觉得这代表什么？

What does that mean to you, though, that he was doing such due diligence?

说明他对这件事非常认真。

He was serious about it.

他当时特别认真。

He was very serious about it.

我几乎都觉得没法继续往下走了……

It almost felt like I couldn't get...

我没法知道他心里在想什么，但感觉他是在花时间认真考虑这件事到底意味着什么。

I'm not in his brain, but it felt like he was taking the time to really think about what this meant.

这个联名银行账户到底意味着什么。

What this joint bank account meant.

就像在确认这段关系的条款和条件到底是什么。

What the terms and conditions of this relationship was.

确认签署这份文件对我们的关系、对我们相处的时光到底意味着什么。

Of what signing this document meant for our relationship and our time together.

那你这次预约结束的时候，是不是就拿到了你的借记卡，比如新卡已经在你手里了？

So do you end this appointment with your debit cards, like you have your new debit cards in hand?

我们拿到了临时借记卡，是的。

We had temporary debit cards, yep.

哇。

Whoa.

对我来说，那一刻意义特别大，因为我觉得我终于得到了我想要的。

And it felt like such a big moment for me because it felt like I finally got what I wanted.

这就是让我在约会中那么沮丧的事情的实体化，我找到了解决办法，现在我把它握在手里，我终于可以在关系中做自己了。

This was the physical manifestation of the thing that frustrated me so much about dating that I had found a solution for, and that I finally had in my hands, and that I could finally use to be myself in a relationship.

那你当时是不是想说，‘咱们现在就去吃饭吧’？

So were you like, "Let's go to dinner right now?"

‘想去吃午饭吗？’

"Want to go have lunch?"

我们之后就去吃午饭了。

We went to lunch after that.

也是为了摆脱那次约会的所有尴尬。

Just to shake off all the weirdness of that date, too.

就像是，让我们回到第四次约会该有的正常状态——

It was like, let's go back to some sense of normalcy for what a fourth date-

对

Yes

……比如吃个午饭或者喝杯咖啡什么的。

... is supposed to look like, which is a lunch or a coffee or something.

那么现在你有了新借记卡，账单来的时候感觉怎么样？

So how did it feel when the bill came now that you have your new debit cards?

那是什么感觉？

What was that like?

你做了什么？

What did you do?

感觉如释重负。

It felt like such relief.

感觉我再也不用觉得不自在了。

It felt like I didn't have to be uncomfortable anymore.

感觉我可以做自己，而且他也跟我有同样的想法。

It felt like I could just be myself, and it felt like he was on the same page with me.

哇。

Wow.

而且他没有跟我争，因为再说，就像——

And it's like he didn't fight me back on it because again, it's like-

关于账单。

On the bill.

关于账单。

On the bill.

到这个时候，账单的事。

On the bill at this point.

他没有跟我争。

He didn't fight me back.

他没有跟我争着付账。

He didn't fight me to pay the bill.

他让我付了。

He let me pay.

当然，我也明白，我不能指望他跟我争，对吧？

And of course, I'm like, I can't expect him to fight me back, right?

那只是我和家人之间的一种习惯。

That's just something my family and I do.

他不是中国人。

He's not Chinese.

他不会理解的。

He wouldn't understand.

对他来说，这不是自然而然的事。

It's not intuitive to him.

但他开了联名银行账户，而且我争着付账的时候，不会觉得自己被抢了，也不会觉得自己被占了便宜，或者觉得——

But the fact that he opened a joint bank account, the fact that like Me fighting for the bill can happen without me feeling like I was being robbed or feeling like I was being taken advantage of or feeling like-

如果你没有安全网的话。

If you have no safety net.

没错。

Exactly.

所以那一刻感觉特别痛快。

And so that moment felt glorious.

而且真的扣款成功了，对吧？

And it went through, right?

你可以用刚开的支票账户里的钱。

You can use money from a checking account that you just set up.

我也不确定。

I don't know.

因为最糟糕的情况是，你自豪地拿出新的联名借记卡，结果对方说：“女士，这张卡被拒了。”

Because the bad end to this is you proudly put down your new joint debit card, and they're like, "Ma'am, this was declined."

那真的会很好笑。

That would be really funny.

但这种情况并没有发生。

But it didn't happen.

付款成功了。

It went through.

没有，那次付款成功了。

No, it went through.

所以你每两周就往里面存一笔钱，每次出去约会的时候，就用那张借记卡付款。

So you deposited however much money into it biweekly, and any time you went out to dates, you would use that debit card.

对。

Yep.

所以最后还是成功了。

So it worked.

结果支付成功了。

It worked.

那你们是不是因为一起开了这个支票账户，就顺理成章变成情侣了？还是说之后关系是怎么进一步发展的？

And were you automatically boyfriend and girlfriend because you'd opened up this checking account, or how did the relationship progress from there?

天哪。

Oh, gosh.

我们从来没有正式谈过关系定位。

We never had the DTR conversation.

哇。

Wow.

你们俩真是啥都不聊啊。

You guys are really not talking about much.

对，但有意思的是，我记得在其他关系里，谈关系定位的对话也特别让人紧张。

No, but it's so funny because I remember with the other relationships, that let's define the relationship conversation was also really fraught.

但这次开联名账户的时候，就好像我们已经是彼此的人了。

But it was almost like when this joint bank account opened, we were each other's person.

就像我们被绑在一起了——

It's like we were linked-

哦。

Oh

……在财务上，也在象征意义上，通过这个银行账户把我们联系在一起。

... to each other financially, but also symbolically through this bank account.

我们是在一起做这件事。

We were doing this thing together.

这就是我们的兼容性测试。

This was our compatibility test.

这是我们迈向承诺的第一步。

This was our first step towards commitment.

所以我们不需要进行确定关系的对话。

And so we didn't need to have the DTR conversation.

因为那基本上就是确定了。

Because that kind of was it.

开这个银行账户，对，就是你们确定关系的方式。

The opening of the bank account, yeah, was the defining the relationship conversation for you guys.

哇。

Wow.

现在我要剧透一下，你们已经结婚九年了，对吧？

And now I will do a spoiler, which is you've been married for nine years, right?

是的。

Yes.

九年。

Nine years.

我们在一起九年了，是的。

We've been together nine years, yes.

你们在一起九年了。

You've been together nine years.

对。

Yes.

结婚多久了？

Married how many?

我想想，七年吧。

I think seven.

我都记不清了。

I've lost count.

那个联名银行账户还在用吗？

Is this joint bank account still active?

我们后来唯一再提起这件事，就是关掉那个账户，去开了一个福利更好的新联名账户。

So the only time we ever talked about it again was when we closed that account to open another joint bank account with better benefits.

关掉那个支票账户的时候，是不是有种百感交集的感觉？这个问题我以前从来没想过会问别人，但确实有吗？

Did it feel bittersweet to sunset that checking account, which is not a question I ever thought I'd ask someone, but did it?

确实有。

It did.

对我来说，确实有。

For me, it did.

因为那是属于我的时刻。

Because it was my moment.

那是我第一次为自己争取想要的东西，而且这件事对我意义重大，最后我成功了。

It was the first time I ever asked for what I wanted that meant something to me in such a huge, important way, and I got it.

所以当我们关掉那个账户的时候，确实挺难过的。

And so when we closed the account, it was sad.

因为感觉就像，哦，那是我在我们关系中那个关键时刻的一部分——

Because it was like, oh, that's the part of that moment for me in our relationship that was so crucial-

……那个改变了我们余生的时刻。

... that changed the rest of our lives.

但现在我们有很多联名账户了，所以就像——

But now we have lots of joint bank accounts, so it's like-

天哪，一堆呢。

Damn a dozen.

哦，天哪。

Oh, gosh.

嗯，我想问一下，你们在一起九年了，你有没有问过他，从第三次约会结束到去银行见面那几天，他心里在想什么？

Well, I want to ask now, did you ever ask him, now that you've been together for nine years, did you ask him what was going through his mind in those days between ending the third date and meeting at the bank?

他说了什么？

What did he say?

我一直以为是因为我的表白特别有说服力。

I had always thought it was because I had such a solid pitch.

但直到多年后，我跟朋友分享这段经历时，其中一位朋友问我：‘他就这么同意跟你开联名账户了？’

But it wasn't till years later when I was sharing the story with friends, when one of them asked, "So he just agreed to open a joint bank account with you?"

毕竟，谁会做这种事呢？

Because of course, why would anyone do that?

我当时回答：‘对，他确实同意了。'

And my response was, "Yeah, he did.

我当时说服他的理由很充分。

I had a solid pitch.

他完全信了。

He bought it.

他真的特别认同我说的话。"

He really leaned into what I was saying."

那天晚上我才反应过来，我应该去问问他是不是真的那样，于是我回家问他：'嘿，你还记得咱们干过的那件疯狂的事吗？'

And it only occurred to me that night that I should actually ask him if that was true, so I went home, and I said, "Hey, do you remember that crazy thing we did?"

我当时就说：‘你是因为被我打动了吧？’”

And I was like, "It's because you bought my pitch, right?"

他说：‘不不不，你当时简直疯了。’

And he was like, "No, no, no, you were bonkers.

我答应你是因为我需要经济上的稳定。

I said yes because I needed financial stability.

我需要在一个我刚来不到一年的国家里建立信用。’”

I needed a way to build credit in a country that I had just arrived in less than a year."

哇。

Whoa.

这跟我想的可不太一样，没那么浪漫。

That is not as romantic as I thought.

对，我也这么觉得。

Yeah, I agree.

这么多年我一直以为是我当初说服了他，结果发现根本不是那样的时候——

After all these years, when I thought it was because of this compelling thing I said to him, and learning that it wasn't that-

……这让我重新审视了一切，而且是往好的方向，因为我意识到，我有我的需求，他有他的需求。

... it kind of reframed everything for me in a good way because what it made me realize was I had specific needs, he had specific needs-

啊

Ah

……

...

在我们各自未满足的需求中，为了满足这些需求，我们意外地找到了一个对双方都有效的解决方案。

and in our different unmet needs, in trying to fulfill our different unmet needs, we had stumbled upon a solution that worked for both of us.

我需要一种像家人那样在关系中表达关心的方式，而他需要在一个新国家为新生活打下基础。

I needed a way to practice care in a relationship the way that my family did, and he needed a way to build a foundation for a new life in a new country.

所以这教会我的是，是的，他未必能理解我的传统，但他在那一刻接受我的求婚，说明他明白这件事对我很重要，并且他尊重了这一点。

And so what it taught me was, yeah, he wouldn't necessarily understand my traditions, but what he did in that moment in accepting this proposal from me was that he understood that something was important to me, and he honored that.

哇。

Wow.

他未必需要直觉上理解争取那份账单意味着什么。

He didn't necessarily need to intuitively understand what fighting for the bill meant.

他不需要理解那件事，甚至不需要去做或者去表现。

He didn't need to understand that or even practice that or perform that.

他只知道这件事对我很重要，他会帮我得到我在乎的东西。

All he knew was this was important to me, and he was going to help me get what was important to me.

就像对他来说，这个联名账户意味着他终于能在新国家立足，而我帮他做到了。

In the same way that, for him, this joint bank account meant he could finally establish himself in a new country, and I helped him do that.

所以九年之后，我终于明白了——

And so nine years later, finally realizing-

……故事的另一面。

... the other side of the story.

我回头看我们的关系，发现那就是我们关系的一个模板。

I look back in our relationship, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, that was a template for our relationship.

他是爱尔兰人。

He's Irish.

哦。

Oh.

我是中国人。

I am Chinese.

我做的事情他大部分都不懂。

He doesn't understand most of what I do.

我也不懂他。

I don't understand him.

但是——

But-

当我们表达出对自己重要的东西时，我们都会努力帮对方实现这些目标。

... when we express what's important to us, we both are working towards helping each other achieve those things.

哇。

Wow.

这就是我们成功的秘诀。

And that has been our recipe for success.

你分享他需要建立信用时，我的第一反应是：“这太不浪漫了。”

My knee-jerk response when you shared his, he needed to build credit, I said, "That's very not romantic."

但当你最后描述完你们一直以来的相处模式后，我觉得这其实真的很浪漫。

But then at the end of you describing how this has been your template, I'm like, I actually think that's really romantic.

而且这还不仅仅是浪漫。

And it even goes beyond romance.

这是你们两个人之间建立的那种深厚的关心，而且你们居然在第三四次约会时就做到了。

It's this deep level of care that you've achieved between the two of you, and you achieved, in fact, between dates three and four.

或者说第四次约会的时候吧。

Or date four, let's say.

就是当你走进圣马特奥那家银行的时候，你们就已经做到了。

You achieved when you walk into that bank in San Mateo.

我刚才有点开玩笑，但我是真心这么认为的。

I was kind of joking, but I actually mean this.

你觉得如果有人在听这个节目，也想为自己做到这一点，你会推荐他们这样做吗？

Do you think if someone's listening to this and they want to do it for themselves, do you recommend that?

是的，我当然会推荐。

Yes, I do.

其实，我正打算去——

In fact, I'm going to go-

好

Okay

——去银行，把这个方案推销给他们，就像——

... to a bank and pitch this to them as like-

我知道，姐妹。

I know, girl.

我就说，"我们得确保Janene不是花旗银行或第一资本赞助的。"

I'm like, "We got to make sure that Janene isn't sponsored by Citibank or Capital One."

我知道。

I know.

这有点像赞助内容。

This is some sponcon.

不是。

No.

我在开玩笑，不过——

I'm joking, but-

好吧，我确实是在开玩笑。

Well, I do joke.

我就说，与其有承诺戒指，不如有承诺账户。

I'm like, instead of promise rings, we should have promise accounts.

但说真的，我不觉得开联名银行账户适合每个人，但我确实认为，早点聊聊我们对金钱的态度是值得的。

But no, I don't necessarily think that opening a joint bank account is right for everyone, but I do think that it is worth having a conversation early on about what our relationship to money is.

因为没多少人聊这个。

Because not enough people talk about it.

就像我说的，我们太害怕谈钱了。

Like I said, we are so scared of talking about finances.

我不是说要完全透明。

And I'm not talking about radical transparency.

你不需要到处说：“我每年赚这么多。”

You don't need to go out and say, "This is how much I make annually.

这是我的奖金有多少。

This is how much I make on my bonus.

这是我的房贷要花多少钱。

This is what my mortgage costs."

不是的。只是说，我们聊聊我们对金钱的态度，这对我们意味着什么，以及这对我们家庭意味着什么，因为那是我们继承来的。

No. It's just like, let's just talk about our relationship to money and what that means for us, and what that meant for our family, because that's who we inherited it from.

所以我觉得至少这种程度的对话，对我来说，感觉是了解彼此的一个亲密步骤。

And so I think at least that level of conversation, to me, feels like an intimate step in getting to know each other.

对。

Yep.

这种对话不常发生。

That it doesn't happen often enough.

我也想知道，你和Aodhán之间，现在关于金钱的对话是什么样的？

I wonder, too, between you and Aodhán, what are your conversations about money like now?

你们有好几个联名银行账户，你告诉过我，但——

You have multiple joint bank accounts, as you've told me, but yeah-

你们俩之间是怎么聊的？

... what's the conversation between the two of you?

我们经常聊想投资什么。

So we talk a lot about what we want to invest in.

我们经常聊怎么为儿子打好经济基础。

We talk a lot about building a financial foundation for our son.

我们经常聊我的工资，他的工资。

We talk a lot about my salary, his salary.

我现在是作家。

I'm a writer now.

我以前在广告业干了14年。

I used to be in advertising for 14 years.

在我们俩之间——

And between the two of us-

难怪你那个该死的提案讲得那么好。

Well, that's why you were so good at the damn pitch.

好的。

Okay.

我知道。

I know.

我的演示文稿棒极了。

My deck was amazing.

所以我们现在会讨论，既然我成了作家，他得在经济上支持我们，而以前我在广告业工作时，是我在经济上支持我们。

And so we talk about now that I'm a writer, how he's going to have to financially support us, whereas before, when I was working in advertising, I was financially supporting us.

所以我们讨论如何处理这个问题，以及如何尽量降低我们的开销。

And so we talk about how we want to handle that, and how we want to minimize our overhead.

我们真的像经营公司一样讨论，比如我们家的财务总监是谁。

We talk really like, where's the CFO of our family, like it's a company.

关于钱，还有什么你觉得难以或不好意思讨论的吗？

Is there anything you find difficult or uncomfortable to discuss about money still?

没有。嗯嗯。

No. Mm-mm.

完全不会。

Not at all.

哇。

Wow.

我觉得这真的非常少见。

I think that is extremely rare.

其实，如果你在第三次约会时就开了联名银行账户，那之后所有事情都摊开来说了。

Well, when you open a joint bank account on your third date, everything's on the table from there on out.

好吧，我今晚有个第一次约会。

Well, I have a first date tonight.

我知道你不太了解我，但我想知道你会建议我怎么做。

I know you don't know me so well, but I wonder what you'd recommend I do.

我应该慢慢伸手去拿钱包吗？

Should I do the slow reach for the wallet?

还是我应该就坐在那儿不动？

Should I just kind of sit back?

说实话，理想情况下我真不想付钱，所以我想听听你觉得我该怎么做。

I mean, in my ideal world, frankly, I wouldn't pay, so I wonder what you think I should do.

我就直接这么说吗？

Should I just say that?

我觉得你应该大胆一点，直接点破这个时刻，然后说：“好，

I think you should be bold and just call out the moment and say, "Okay.

账单来了。

The bill's here.

你觉得怎么样？”

How do you feel about it?"

天哪。

Oh, my God.

听你这么说，我真心开始紧张了。

I'm getting legitimately nervous of you saying that.

咱们就直说吧。

Let's just talk about it.

这真是个重要的时刻。

It's such a big moment.

这真是个尴尬又让人不舒服的时刻。

It's such a slimy, gross moment.

我们就直接聊聊吧。

Let's just talk about it.

我希望今晚我有勇气这么做。

I hope I have the bravery to do that tonight.

我会回来汇报的。

I'll report back.

一定要啊。

Please do.

我真的会的。

I really will.

而且我受到这种方式的启发。

And I'm inspired by this approach.

我确实是这样。

I truly am.

Janene Lin，谢谢你参加这次对话。

Janene Lin, thank you for this conversation.

我学到了很多。

I learned a lot.

哦，谢谢你邀请我来。

Oh, thank you for having me here.

这太有趣了。

This was so much fun.

《Modern Love》团队包括Amy Pearl、Christina Josa、Davis Land、Elisa Gutierrez、Emily Lang、Jen Poynt、Lynn Levy、Reefa Goldberg和Sarah Curtis。

The Modern Love Team is Amy Pearl, Christina Josa, Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Emily Lang, Jen Poynt, Lynn Levy, Reefa Goldberg, and Sarah Curtis.

这一集由Elisa Gutierrez和Sarah Curtis制作。

This episode was produced by Elisa Gutierrez and Sarah Curtis.

由Davis Land和Lynn Levy编辑。

It was edited by Davis Land and Lynn Levy.

本期节目的原创音乐由黛安·王、帕特·麦卡斯克、玛丽安·洛萨诺和罗文·尼姆斯维尔创作。

Original music in this episode by Diane Wong, Pat McCusker, Marian Lozano, and Rowan Nimiswill.

主题音乐由丹·鲍威尔作曲。

Dan Powell composed our theme music.

本期节目由丹尼尔·拉米雷斯混音，录音室支持来自马迪·马谢洛和尼克·皮特曼。

This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez, with studio support from Madi Masiello and Nick Pitman.

《现代爱情》专栏由丹尼尔·琼斯编辑。

The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones.

米娅·李是《现代爱情》项目的编辑。

Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects.

如果你想向《纽约时报》投稿散文或微爱情故事，我们的节目笔记里一直都有投稿说明。

If you'd like to submit an essay or a Tiny Love Story to The New York Times, we've always got the instructions in our show notes.

我是安娜·马丁。

I'm Anna Martin.

感谢收听。

Thanks for listening.