雷内·拉普：模糊好友与恋人之间的界限

Wayfair钟爱秋季。清新的空气，凉爽的夜晚，当然还有应季的拿铁。作为您值得信赖的家居购物目的地，Wayfair为您提供从舒适躺椅到温暖床品和秋季装饰的一切所需，让您的空间温馨起来。Wayfair甚至还有意式咖啡机，让您在家也能制作那款拿铁。您懂我说的哪一款。

Wayfair loves fall. The crisp air, the cool nights, and, of course, the seasonal lattes. And as your trusted destination for all things home, Wayfair's got everything you need to cozify your space from comfy recliners to warm bedding and autumn decor. Wayfair even has espresso makers, so you can make that latte at home. You know the one.

立即访问wayfair.com，选购精心策划的秋季焕新系列，轻松实惠。网址wayfair.com。Wayfair——万千风格，万千家园。

Head to wayfair.com today to shop curated collections of easy, affordable fall updates. That's wayfair.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home.

爱在当下，爱在未来。爱。爱

Love now and tomorrow. Love. Love

但比任何事物都强烈。为了爱。爱。而我爱你胜过一切。

But stronger than anything. For the love. Love. And I love you more than anything.

爱。有爱可寻。爱。

Love. There's to love. Love.

这里是《纽约时报》，我是安娜·马丁。您正在收听的是《现代爱情》。每周我们为您带来关于爱情、欲望、心碎以及人际关系中所有纷乱复杂的故事。今天节目嘉宾是演员兼歌手蕾妮·拉普。蕾妮因出演近期蒂娜·菲制作的音乐剧《贱女孩》而广为人知。

From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Every week, we bring you stories about love, lust, heartbreak, all the messiness of human relationships. Today on the show, actor and singer Renee Rapp. Renee is most known for her role in the recent Tina Fey produced musical Mean Girls.

在百老汇舞台和电影版中，蕾妮饰演雷吉娜·乔治——学校里被称为'塑料姐妹花'的贱女孩女王。

On Broadway and in the movie version, Renee played Regina George, queen of the Mean Girls at School known as the Plastics.

天啊。你也太烦人了吧。

Oh my god. You are literally being so annoying.

您知道塑料姐妹花。她们粗鲁，她们火辣，她们衣着光鲜。最重要的是，她们比你酷太多了。

You know the plastics. They're rude. They're hot. They're well dressed. And above all else, they are so much cooler than you.

我们平时不这样做的，但这周剩下几天你都可以和我们一起吃午饭。哦，没关系。在星期三，

So we never really do this, but you're invited to eat lunch with us for the rest of the week. Oh, that's okay. On Wednesdays,

我们穿粉色。但在现实生活中，蕾妮是开放的。她热情、迷人地混乱，而且极其坦率。她的情感也在她的音乐中一览无遗。

we wear pink. In real life, though, Renee is open. She's warm. She's charmingly chaotic, and she is extremely candid. And her emotions are also on full display in her music.

她的首张专辑《雪天使》探讨了心碎的强烈程度。比如爱一个人爱到因为对方不回应你的爱，而把整座城市都一笔勾销——只因他们住在那里。在她的新专辑《咬我》中，蕾妮展示了她对所有关系的认真态度，不仅仅是爱情。她探索了友谊中同样存在的亲密与痛苦。她似乎在说，这些可能是柏拉图式的关系，但它们同样值得一首情感充沛的民谣。

Her first album, Snow Angel, looked at the intensity of heartbreak. Like loving someone so much, you end up writing off an entire city because they don't love you back, and that's where they live. In her new album, Bite Me, Renee shows just how seriously she takes all her relationships, not just the romantic ones. She explores the intimacy and the pain that also exists in friendships. These might be platonic connections, she seems to say, but they're no less worthy of an emotional ballad.

阿利亚说小心点，姑娘。

Aliyah said be careful, girl.

你并不

You don't

真正了解她。

really know her.

所以她选择朗读这篇现代爱情随笔《当朋友坠入爱河时会发生什么》就很合理了，作者是萨米·萨斯。和蕾妮一样，这篇文章的作者也不得不面对维持友谊中爱情所需的实际付出。蕾妮·拉普，欢迎来到现代爱情。

It makes sense then that she chose to read the modern love essay, this is what happens when friends fall in love by Sammy Sass. Like Renee, the author of this essay has had to confront what it actually takes to sustain love in a friendship. Renee Rapp, welcome to modern love.

谢谢。

Thank you.

好的。我们年龄相仿。你是二月出生的对吧？是的。

Okay. We are relatively close in age. You're a February baby. Correct? Yeah.

我是90后。

I'm a nineties baby.

哦，完美。好的。

Oh, perfect. Okay.

好的。所以我们可以产生共鸣。思考很多方面，文化影响。我知道你是碧昂斯的超级粉丝，非常痴迷的那种。

Okay. So we can relate. Think on a lot of things, cultural influences. I know you're a huge Beyonce fan. Massively so.

你热爱碧昂斯，但我们也经历过之前的天命真女时期。你当然也是天命真女的粉丝吧？

You love Beyonce, but we also got to experience what came before, which is, of course, Destiny's Child. Are you also Of course. A Destiny's Child fan?

绝对是啊。绝对的。她们的影响力有多大？这可能是史上最令人敬畏的组合之一了。我完全同意你的看法。

I mean, absolutely. Absolutely. Like, how massive? It's kind of like probably one of the most, like, intimidating groups of people ever put together. I agree with you.

真的太疯狂了。

It's really crazy.

你最喜欢的歌是哪首？

What's your fave track?

说实话我都说不上来。她们的歌直击心灵。显然我觉得她们的音乐超级经典，但比起音乐，我更喜欢的是她们的个性。最近我一直在看她们以前在MTV《明星豪宅》里的那些片段。

I don't even know. It targets you. It to be honest, like, I obviously, I think, like I mean, their music is, like, super timeless. But, like, my favorite thing, even more so than their music, is just, like, their personalities. I've been watching all of their old, like, MTV Cribs stuff recently.

我好像没看过那个。

I don't think I've seen that.

你一定要看，简直绝了。她们又风趣又漂亮，我还特别喜欢看她们睡觉的地方。不管是不是真实的布景...

You have to watch it. It's psycho. They're so funny and so pretty and so just, like, I was like seeing, like, where they slept. Whether it's real or not, I love seeing where

看别人睡觉的地方确实很有意思。

someone sleeps. Nice to see where someone sleeps.

我超爱这个。

I love it.

我确实觉得我们是在女子组合盛行的时代长大的，比如天命真女、小野猫。

I do feel like we grew up in a bit of the era of the girl group, Destiny's Child, Mercy Cat Dolls.

当然。

Of course.

在我们之前还有辣妹组合、Vogue。你觉得这些团体影响了你对与其他女孩成为朋友的理解吗？

Before Us a Bit, Spice Girls, and Vogue. Do you feel like these groups influenced your idea of what it means to be friends with particularly other girls?

我不知道。说实话，我听到的总是‘女子组合勾心斗角’这类论调。直到现在回看她们的作品，我才意识到她们肯定是彼此的好友——毕竟至今仍是。但过去人们谈论的总是‘女孩太难相处了’

I don't know. To be honest, the way that it was always presented to me was like, oh, girl groups are so catty. Oh, this is so like, I never really, like, heard, you know, outside of going back and, like, looking at all their stuff now, which I'm sure they were, like, incredible friends to each other because they're still friends to this day. But the only thing I ever really, like, heard conversations about were people being like, oh, girls are so hard

（音频里能听到你在翻白眼）看来你现在显然不这么认为了。

to work with. You're rolling your eyes for the audio version of this conversation. So clearly, you don't feel this way anymore, it seems like.

当然不。我最好的朋友都是女孩和非男性群体。我们亲密无间，我才不会整天...

No. I all my best friends are like girls and like non men. We're we're all so tight. I'm not like constantly

麦克风收音问题。

I don't know. The mic.

对。我总想说‘大家能不能他妈放松点’。那种论调实在太老套了，但总有人说什么...

Yeah. I'm like, can we all just let's just let's just fucking relax. Like, it was that was just such a tired tired take. But, like, it was always the thing of like,

‘女子组合太难搞了’。

oh, girl groups are so hard.

完全同意。和女性交友好难啊。

Totally. Friendships with women are so hard. Yeah.

这一切的戏剧性。比如，多告诉我一些，所以你在这里读一篇现代爱情散文，其核心其实是关于友谊，非常亲密的友谊，你正在为我们铺垫。嗯。具体说说你生活中的那些友谊。你已经提到了你最好的朋友

The drama of it all. Like, tell me more about so you're you're here to read a modern love essay that that really at its core is about friendships, super close friendships, and you're teeing this up for us. Mhmm. Tell me about in some specific ways about the friendships in your life. So you've spoken about your best friend

是的。阿利亚。嗯。你想重点谈谈那里吗？

Yeah. Aliyah. Mhmm. Do you wanna focus there?

比如，你们俩是怎么认识的？有什么故事？

Like, how did you two meet? What's the story there?

我们是在拍一部电视剧时认识的。真的就是这么认识的。

I mean, we met working on a TV show. Like, that is literally how we met.

对于那些不知道的人，是哪部电视剧？

For those who don't know, which TV show?

是《大学女生的性生活》。我们在拍那部剧时认识的。我们很快就成了好朋友，因为我们有很多共同的朋友，都是做音乐剧的。她上的密歇根大学，那可是最负盛名的音乐剧学校之一。我有些朋友也去了那里，我们小时候还一起玩过。

It's The Sex Lives of College Girls. We met working on that TV show. And we were, like, fast friends because we had so many of the same friends from doing musical theater. And she went to college at Michigan, which is like one of the most, like, prestigious musical theater schools. And I had friends that had gone there who I randomly had grown up with.

所以我们之间有很多共同话题，一见面就有说不完的话。而且我觉得真正把我们联系在一起的是，我们都非常害怕。我们真的非常害怕。为什么？因为我们就像，我们为什么会在这里？

So we had, like, all of this connective tissue that we just, like, had shit to talk about immediately. And also, I think what, like, really bonded us together was we were both so deeply scared. We were so deeply scared. Why? Because we were just like, we're gonna like, why are we here?

比如，在片场，在这个项目上。

Like, on set, like, on this project.

就像，我们想，等等。我们在做什么？我们感觉我们必须一直紧张，担心会丢掉工作。我就想，我在做什么演戏？

Like, we're like, wait. What are we doing? Like, we felt like we just had to be, like, nervous all the time and, like, worried we were gonna lose our jobs. And I was like, I'm what am I doing acting?

所以这真的是，我是说，这是一种被过度使用的

So it was I mean, this is such an overused kind

这个短语听起来像是

of phrase, but it sounds like

一种冒名顶替综合症的类型。绝对是的。而且

an impostor syndrome type. Absolutely. And

所以当你和一个处于相同境地的人在一起时，你们站在平等的立场上，她也有同样的感受，但我觉得她完全有权利在那里，完全配得上那个位置。我就会想，等等，你他妈凭什么这么看轻自己？

so when you're with someone who's on the same like, there's an equal playing field, and they're also feeling that way, yet I feel like she has every right to be there and is so entitled to, like, be in that space. I'm like, wait. Why the fuck do you think that about yourself?

你能回忆起项目初期某个具体时刻吗？就是你们互相帮助克服那种恐惧的阶段？

Do you is there a specific moment you can remember from those early days, like, beginning that project where you two helped each other through that fear?

从我认识她以来几乎每天都是。我们之间有种默契，只要对视一眼就能明白对方在想什么。如果发生什么荒唐事，哪怕隔着整个房间，她看我一眼，我看她一眼，然后歪个头——

I mean, every single day since I've known her. It it we sort of have always had this thing of, like, we'll just, like, look at each other, and we'll know exactly what the other person is thinking. And if, like, any bullshit happens, like, we could be across the room, and, like, she'll look at me. I'll look at her and be like, head to the side.

你们用眼神完成了一场完整对话

You had a full conversation with her.

用眼神完成的完整对话

Full conversation with all the eyes.

是啊。说到你们友谊初建的那些日子

Yeah. Talking about these, like, early days of your friendship when you're forming it

没错

Yeah.

人们谈论浪漫伴侣时总爱提第一印象。比如你见到她时怎么想的？但我想问问你对Aaliyah的第一印象是什么？她最打动你的是什么？

People often talk about first impressions when it comes to romantic partners. Like, when you saw her, what did you think? But I wanna actually ask that about, like, what was your first impression of Aaliyah? What what what struck you about her?

我当时就想，她看起来那么自信。嗯。而且她真漂亮。就像，我当时就觉得，哇。我喜欢她，甚至不是肤浅的那种喜欢。

I was just like, she seemed so sure of herself. Mhmm. And she's so pretty. Like, I was like, wow. Like, I love not not even in a shallow way.

我喜欢漂亮的脸蛋。当我说漂亮脸蛋时，我确实是指一张漂亮的脸。

I love a pretty face. And when I say a pretty face, I do mean a pretty face.

但我

But I

还想说，我喜欢灿烂的笑容。而她有着最美的笑容，非常自信，同时也清楚地意识到有些事情让她害怕。

also mean, like, I love, like, a big smile. And she has, like, the most beautiful smile and is just really sure of herself and is also really aware that there are things that are scaring her.

嗯，我正想说，把她作为那段经历的对照似乎真的很有价值。当然。

Well, I was just gonna say having her as kind of a foil for that experience seems really Of course. Valuable

那就像一面镜子。确实是一面镜子。她也像我一样，你知道，她在生活中努力过，上过学，做过所有这些事情，不仅是我做不到的，而且她上的是最好的音乐剧学校。

It to was like a mirror. It was a mirror. It was also like I you know, she had worked in her life and had, like, gone to school and, like, done all of these things that, like, I couldn't not only I, like, couldn't do, but I, like, what she went to, like, the best musical theater school ever.

他们，没有

They're, didn't

你有多痴迷

much you geek out on

那个，因为我完全。是的。

that because I totally. Yeah.

我甚至没能通过那所学校的试镜。所以我就想，她是

I didn't get accepted to even pass my audition for that school. So I was like, she's

他们搞砸了。难以置信。

They ruined that. Incredible.

不。我根本没被任何学校录取。所以我总是想，天啊。如果你能熬过这个阶段，那你一定付出了我难以想象的艰辛努力。

No. I did not get into, like, any school. So I was always like, holy shit. Like, if you've made it past this point, like, you had to work incredibly hard in ways that I can't even understand.

朋友间那种相互欣赏的感觉也很美好。就像仰望

There's such a beautiful thing too with, like, the admiration between friends. Like, to look up

天啊。是啊。

Oh my god. Yeah.

一位朋友。我也可以问你吗？你即将发行的专辑里有首歌。嗯。叫《太有趣了》，里面有句歌词你特别提到了。

To a friend. Can I ask you too? You have a song on your upcoming album. Mhmm. It's called That's So Funny, and there's a lyric in it where you specifically referenced.

对吧，阿丽雅？是的。我觉得，你知道，我们习惯了人们在情歌里提人名，但在歌颂友情的歌里很少见。能聊聊这个选择吗？你觉得友情在音乐里是否被轻视了？我是说

Right, Aliyah? Yes. And I feel like, you know, we're used to, people name dropping in songs about romantic love, but I think it's much rare in songs about platonic love. Can you talk about that choice? Like, do you think friendship gets kind of short shrifted I mean

在音乐里？我觉得好吧。这不是...我当时想，不。我不想...算了。我会的。

in music? I think that okay. This is not I was like, no. I don't wanna nah. I will.

我觉得说到流行音乐，对吧，那么多音乐灵感来自爱与恨的关系，而恨本质上只是对你真实感受/曾经感受的深深失望和爱的掩饰。所以你知道，这绝对是音乐的重要组成部分。永远都是。

I think that when it comes to, like, pop music, right, so much of music is inspired by love and relationships or hate, which is basically just like a cover up for the deep disappointment and love that you, like, actually feel slash felt. So, you know, it's definitely a massive part of music. It will always be.

你指的是浪漫爱情。

It's Romantic love you mean.

对。当然。这是世界上最美好的东西。但我也觉得，当你开始看到更多酷儿群体进入主流流行音乐时，尤其会开始看到异性恋规范关系中不存在的不同动态

Yeah. Yeah. Of course. It's the greatest thing in the world. But I also think, like, when you start to see, like, more just, like, queer people moving into, like, mainstream pop music especially, you start to see the different dynamics that are not in heteronormative relationships even

当

when

谈到友谊时，我觉得与酷儿朋友们的友谊比我在那些更直人的空间里经历过的任何关系都要深刻得多。而那个被说很有趣的女孩完全是直人，但那个人身上有些特质让我觉得，天啊。就像，我们的友谊，它曾经的样子，远不止是那种‘哦，是啊，我们是女孩，我们关系不错’这样肤浅的东西。

it comes to friendships. I think my friendships are so much deeper with my queer friends than I've ever had in spaces in my life that were more straight. And the girl that that's so funny about is absolutely straight, but there are things about that person that I was like, damn. Like, our friendship, what it was, went so much deeper than just some like, oh, yeah. We're girls and we key and, like, it's fine.

是的，它要深刻得多。而阿莉雅某种程度上就像是头号见证人，她提前很久就警告过我。比如，嘿，顺便说一句，她真的在算计你。

Yeah. It was it was much deeper. And Aaliyah kind of just, like, was the number one witness to it and warned me so far in advance. Like, hey, by the way, like, she's literally plotting on you.

那么请你为可能还没听过这首歌的人解释一下这首歌的主题。这首歌里发生了什么？

So let's just have you explain sort of the conceit of the song for people who maybe haven't heard it yet. Like, what's going on in in this song?

嗯，这就像是——它必须是我最喜欢的歌之一。

Well, it's like it's gotta be like one of my favorite songs.

确实很棒。

It's a great one.

谢谢。我非常喜欢它。基本上，发生了一件事。我，我基本上就是被一个我生活中非常亲近、仰望、感觉像是我大姐的人深深地、深深地伤害了。而她某种程度上声称自己是那样的人，并承担了那个角色。

Thanks. I I love it so much. I basically, a situation had happened. I I essentially just got so deeply, deeply screwed by someone who I had really brought close to me in my life and and looked up to and felt like was like a big sister to me. And she kind of claimed to be that and took on that role.

我真的很感激，因为我就是觉得她完美无缺。然后慢慢地但肯定地，她开始在我身上看到那些让她感到不安的特质。我想她变得真的——我猜她生活中到了一个非常痛苦的地步，然后决定我是她所有问题的根源。阿莉雅目睹了这一切并警告了我，但我当时觉得，没事的，没事的。

And I really, really appreciated it because I just thought the world of her. And then slowly but surely started to see things in me that were qualities that made her insecure. I think she got really I assume she got to a really miserable place in her life and decided that I was the root of all of her problems. And Aaliyah watched it happen and warned me, but I was like, it's all good. It's all good.

没事的。直到它变得一点都不好。然后我就想，天啊。这真的爆炸了。

It's all good. Until it was just like so not all good. And I was like, damn. This really actually did blow up.

这真的是当你摊开

It is a really when when you lay

就这样说出来，我当时的反应是，哇哦。

it out like that, I'm like, woah.

这首歌描绘了两种截然不同的友谊或亲密关系图景。对吧？一种是极具毒性、腐蚀性和隐秘性的，另一种就像阿莉娅所表达的——按我的理解——她在警告你，但同时也表示，即使事情发展到

This this song has two extremely divergent pictures of what friendship or close relationship can be. Right? One that's deeply toxic and corrosive and secretive and one that's like Aliyah's like essentially, how I'm reading it is like warning you, but then also like, I'll be here for you even when this

当然。

Of course.

不可收拾的地步，我也会陪着你。所以你确实能看到这些关于

Shit hits the fan. And so you really do see these, like, very different models of what a

当然。

Of course.

朋友角色的不同模式。

A friend can be.

明白吗？这件事也让我愤怒悲伤了很久，真的像阴影般笼罩一切，一度让我的生活脱轨，因为情况变得太糟糕了。我那时每晚都辗转反侧，简直疯了。

You know? And it was also something that I was so mad and sad about for such a long time and, like, really was, like, all encompassing and derailed my life for a minute because the situation became so dire. I was like, I don't sleep a night without thinking about this. It was crazy.

蕾妮，这确实...这确实很难熬。

Renee, that's really that's really tough.

我以前也经历过类似的事。是啊，太疯狂了，真的太疯狂了。

I've had stuff like that before. Yeah. It was insane. It was so insane.

我想说的是，这首歌里描述的这段关系——与这个人的深厚友谊。嗯。对吧？所以这其实是在探讨友谊以最初难以理解的方式变质时，那种刻骨铭心的痛苦，

And I wanna be like, this relationship in this song with with this person, that was a deep friendship. Mhmm. Wasn't it? Yeah. So it was like a so really what you're talking too about is this remarkable pain of a friendship changing in ways you at first quite don't understand,

而且

and

然后当然，这段极其痛苦的友情破裂，在我看来，其悲剧性不亚于甚至可能超过一段浪漫关系的结束。是的。

then, of course, this, like, deeply painful friend breakup, which is just it can be equally, if not more in my experience, as tragic as a romantic Yeah.

我是说，某种程度上每个人都经历过类似的事。不必像我遭遇的那么极端，我当然希望不是。

I mean, everyone has had something like that happen to them on some level. It doesn't have to be as extreme as what happened to me. I certainly hope not.

不，希望不是。

No. I hope not.

但是，你知道，这很常见。非常常见。友情并非都能永恒，这很正常。有些能持续，那很棒。是的。

But, like, yeah, you know, it's it's it's it's common. It's common. You know, friendships don't don't last forever, and that's okay. Some do, which is awesome. Yeah.

但很多关系就像...是暂时的，在存在时很重要。你这睿智的女人啊。我只是被坑太多次了。就这样。我只不过见过太多心理医生了。

But a lot are, like, relationships and are temporary and important for the time that they're there. You wise, wise woman. I've just been fucked over too many times. That's all. I just have seen so many therapists.

你特指酷儿友情的强度问题。

You are talking about the intensity of queer friendship specifically.

是的。

Yes.

你在讨论关系变化导致连接难以维系的情况。这些主题都出现在你选择朗读的那篇散文里

You're talking about relationships changing in ways that make the make the connection difficult to navigate. All of these are themes that are present in the essay you chose to read to

《同性恋》对吧？今天？《同性恋》说得对。顺便说，我从没如此热爱过任何发生过的事。千万别把这段剪掉。

Gay Yeah. Today? To Gay is right. By the way, I've never loved anything that's ever happened more. Please don't edit that out.

那简直太他妈棒了。太不可思议了。你觉得那真的超赞吗？我

That was fucking stellar. That was amazing. Do you that was literally amazing. Did I

是说给同性恋的吗？对。给同性恋。给同性恋。好吧。

said to gay? Yeah. To gay. To gay. Okay.

好的。好的。今天你要读的文章是萨米·萨斯写的，题目叫《当朋友坠入爱河时会发生什么》。蕾妮，你让我特别想听你读这篇。

Okay. Okay. Essay the essay you're gonna read today is by Sammy Sass. It's called this is what happens when friends fall in love. Renee, you are making me need to hear you read this.

不如你直接开始吧？给同性恋。给同性恋。稍后回来时，蕾妮将朗读一篇关于两位酷儿朋友试图定义他们关系界限的文章，这个过程相当混乱。请继续收听。

Why don't we why don't you just go ahead? To gay. To gay. When we come back today, Renee reads an essay about two queer friends trying to define the terms of their relationship, and it is messy work. Stay with us.

嗨，《纽约时报》。我对共享订阅的分账户登录功能很感兴趣。我35岁了，还在用父母的《纽约时报》订阅账号。

Hi, New York Times. I would be very interested in having separate logins for a shared subscription. I'm 35 years old. I still share my parents' New York Times subscription.

我觉得如果我的青少年孩子们能有自己的账号，他们就能分享文章。现在这样我们没法同时玩相同的游戏。

I think if my teenagers were to have their own logins, they could share articles. It doesn't let us play the same games as each other.

我玩数独。

I play the Stoku.

我做填字游戏。

I do the crossword.

我玩拼字蜜蜂。

I do the spelling bee.

我玩Wordle。求解决。

I do the wordle. Please help.

拥有我们自己的账户会非常棒。我妈妈可以保存

Having our own accounts would be amazing. My mom could save

她自己的食谱。我的朋友们可以保存他们的食谱。我想订阅每周通讯，但它们似乎总是发给我丈夫，然后他又不转发给我。

her own recipes. My friends could save their recipes. I wanna get the weekly newsletter, but they seem to always go to husband, and then he doesn't forward them to me.

我们俩都喜欢烹饪。我是个三十分钟搞定晚餐的女生。我男朋友则非常讲究细节。我觉得他拥有自己的个人资料会很好。

We both love cooking. I'm a thirty minute and under dinner girly. My boyfriend is very elaborate. I think him having his own profile would be great.

我们热爱《纽约时报》，我们也希望能各自独立地热爱它。

We love the New York Times, and we would love to love it individually.

听众们，我们听到了你们的声音。现在推出《纽约时报》家庭订阅服务。一份订阅，最多可为四位家人提供独立登录账号。

Listeners, we heard you. Introducing the New York Times Family Subscription. One subscription up to four separate logins for anyone in your life.

了解更多详情，请访问nytimes.com/family。

Find out more at nytimes.com/family.

这是Sammy Sass所写的《当朋友坠入爱河时会发生什么》。米拉正送我回家，我们俩谁都不愿说再见。七月的暴雨中，我们坐在车里听雨声。我摆弄着她放在杯架里的哑光红唇膏，打开镜子准备涂抹时，发现膏管内部缠绕着一根长长的黑发。我举着它说：老兄，你虽然是个精致女孩，但绝对是个邋遢的精致女孩。

This is what happens when friends fall in love by Sammy Sass. Mira was dropping me off and neither one of us wanted to say goodbye. In a July storm, we sat in our car listening to the rain. I played with the red matte lipstick she keeps in her cup holder, opened the mirror to put it on and unscrew the top where I found a long black hair wound around the inside of the tube. Holding it up between us, I said, dude, you may be a femme, but you are a sloppy one for sure.

她笑得前仰后合，用手捂着嘴。随后突然严肃起来，问道：如果是你呢？我不明白她的意思。她说：如果五年后我们还在这里，发现彼此就是命中注定呢？比如五年后我们相视一笑，意识到是时候交往了？

She laughed hard, leaning forward and covering her mouth. Then she calmed, suddenly serious, and said, what if it's you? I wasn't sure what she meant. She said, what if we're here in five years and we're it for each other? Like, what if in five years we look at each other and realize it's time to date?

我说：不会的。她接着说：比如五年后，发现最终是你，是这段友谊，也许我们会和别人约会，但归根结底还是你。我微笑着想象我们俩超过二十五岁后，依然在大雨中的树下坐着，笑着不愿下车。她凝视着前方说：我好怕伤害到你。

I said, no. She said, like, what if in five years it's you and it's this friendship and maybe we date other people, but at the end of the day, it's you. I smiled imagining two of us older than our mid twenties, still sitting below big trees in rainstorms, laughing and not wanting to get out of the car. She gazed ahead. I'm so terrified of hurting you.

我放下唇膏伸手抱住她：米拉，你是我爱过最让我安心的人。她双手掩面哭泣，我只能看见她浓密的黑发和别着

I put down lipstick and reached for her. Mira, you are the safest person I have ever loved. She put her face in her hands and cried, and all I could see was her thick black hair, her jean jacket with the fierce love pin. That night was the first time Mira and I acknowledged just how much of our lives had molded around each other. Neither of us knew how to describe what we were.

当有人问我们是否在约会时，我只说我们在相爱。米拉听到这个故事时笑了。她把我们的合照设为了头像，那是我们在长椅上大笑的样子。有一天她说，最棒的就是当我出现在派对上，人们问我你在哪里。我们在我的前廊共度夜晚，大声朗读诸如《婚姻是谋杀》、《酷儿的未来》和《反对伴侣形式》这样的文章。

When someone asked if we were dating, I just said, we're in love. Mira smiled when she heard the story. She made her profile picture, the two of us laughing on a bench. And one day she said, it's the best when I show up to parties and people ask me where you are. We spent evenings on my front porch reading articles aloud with titles such as Marriage is Murder, The Future of Queer, and Against the Couple Form.

我们梦想着如果允许自己摆脱传统束缚，生活会是什么样子。一想到要融入一对情侣中我就感到羞愧。我知道这很难，但我想要建立一种承诺的生活，让友谊和浪漫伴侣关系一样重要。她给我转发了一条推特，上面写着：'可能因为我无法投入异性恋的爱情叙事中'。作为酷儿的事实奇怪地让我免于许多孤独，尽管从人口统计学上看这让亲密关系更难找到。

We dreamed about what our lives could look like if we gave ourselves permission to be free from conventions. I was mortified at the thought of absorbing into a couple. And I knew it would be difficult, but I wanted to build a life of commitment where friendships mattered as much as romantic partnership. She emailed me a tweet from someone that said, possible by my inability to invest in heterosexual narratives of love. The fact of being queer weirdly saved me from so much loneliness even as it demographically made intimacy so much harder to find.

我回了一个心形眼睛的表情符号。后来，在一个初冬的傍晚，米拉把车停在我公寓窗户下，搂着我的肩膀说：'萨米，你是我的中心。'有一段时间，我确实是。阿米拉每天早上接我去上班。我每周日给她做午餐，我们在拥挤的房间里直奔对方。她成了我快速拨号的第一位，我们每天都通话。

I sent back a heart eye emoji and later, parked below my apartment windows on an early winter evening, Meera put her arm around my shoulders and said, Sammy, you are my epicenter. And for a while, I was. Amira picked me up for work every morning. I made her lunch on Sundays, and we made a beeline for each other in crowded rooms. She became number one on my speed dial, and we talked every day.

当我以为自己有臭虫时，我惊慌地打电话给她。她带着一个穴位按摩垫、手电筒来了，还用iPhone播放海浪声。'我很焦虑，'我坐在地上哭着说。'我知道，'她站在我上方说。这是我第一次在心里小声承认，依赖一个人的感觉有多好。

When I thought I had bedbugs, she was the one I called in a panic. She came over with an acupressure mat, a flashlight, and played wave sounds from her iPhone. I'm anxious, I said, crying on the floor. I know, she said as she stood above me. For the first time, I admitted just to myself in a whisper, how good it felt to rely on someone.

米拉撬开了我的心扉，慢慢地我相信她会在那里。每次都坚定不移。我开始想象我的生活里永远有她，无论我们的关系是什么形式，因为我们坚持允许自己改变。我以为变化会很小，而她会是中心。但后来米拉告诉我她要和一个女人约会。

Mira pried me open and slowly I trusted she would be there. Every time solid. I started picturing my life with her always in it, whatever shape our relationship took, because we had insisted on the permission to let ourselves change. I expected the changes would be small and that she would be central. But then Mira told me about a woman she was going to date.

这个人不像米拉在我们友谊期间约会过的那些可爱的酷儿，那些人要么已经在和别人约会，要么情感上不可得，要么对她来说不够有趣。这是米拉真正喜欢的人。她像忏悔一样告诉我她想要浪漫的伴侣关系，甚至可能希望这是她生活的中心和主要部分。而我想要让这种感觉萎缩直到消亡。但我做不到，所以我努力适应她对未来的设想。

This person wasn't like the cute queers Mira had dated during our friendship, all of whom were already dating someone else or emotionally unavailable or not nearly sounding enough for her. This was someone Mira had an actual genuine crush on. She told me like a confession that she wanted romantic partnership and that she might even want it to be primary, central thing she built her life around. And I wanted to shrivel that feeling inside until it atrophied and died. But I couldn't, so I strained to fit her vision of what she wanted.

'嗯，也许我们应该约会，'我说。'我的意思是，我们不能让它成功吗？我们不是已经在相爱，每天在一起，每天聊天吗？'她摇摇头说：'我不想吻你。'而我不得不承认，有时我想象她躺在我旁边，就像一个思维实验，我假装我们是恋人。

Well, maybe we should date, I said. I mean, couldn't we make that work? Weren't we already in love and spending time together and talking every day? She shook her head and said, I don't wanna kiss you. And I had to admit that sometimes I imagine her lying next to me and like a thought experiment, I pretend we're lovers.

我想象她笑着，我把她的头发拨到耳后。我握着她的手，数她戴的戒指。我感觉她有多娇小，只有五英尺高而且很瘦。我说：'告诉我你今天的一切。'她用明亮的眼睛看着我，但仅此而已。

I picture her laughing and I brush her hair behind her ear. I hold her hand and count the ring she wears. I feel how small she is, only five feet and skinny. And I say, tell me everything about your day. And she looks at me with bright eyes, but it stops there.

我从未吻过她。光是想象就让我有一种紧绷的感觉，我知道我们不是那种关系。所以我沉默了很久，然后说：'对我来说，米拉，问题是如果世界末日来临，你会跑去谁的家？'我开始依赖她的那个柔软部分在尖叫。我用恐惧但坚定的声音补充道：'我会跑去你那里。'

I never kiss her. Just imagining it gives me a tight bond feeling, and I know we're not the ones to do that with each other. So I was silent for a long time and then said, the question for me, Meera, is in the event of an apocalypse, whose house are you running to? The tender part of me that had come to rely on her was screaming. I added in a terrified but certain voice, I am running to you.

然后那个曾经撬开我心扉的女人，那个在同一辆车、同一扇窗下告诉我我是她中心的女人，透过挡风玻璃冷冷地说：'我不相信等级制度。'之后的几天里，我试图说服自己不要感到受伤。我告诉自己我抓得太紧，要求太多，不讲道理。但事实是我希望米拉转向我，忍住笑说：'当然，我会跑去你那里，'好像这是最明显的事。人们告诉我：'哦，这很正常，这就是朋友相爱时会发生的事。'

And then the woman who had pried me open, who had told me in the same car and under the same windows that I was her epicenter, stared through the windshield and said coldly, I don't believe in hierarchies. In the days afterward, I tried to talk myself out of feeling hurt. I convinced myself I was holding on too tightly, asking too much, being unreasonable. But the truth is I wanted Mira to turn to me and hold back laughter while she said, of course, I would run to you, as if it were the most obvious thing. People tell me, oh, this is normal, and this is what happens when friends fall in love.

但我完全没有准备。我们是酷儿。我们本应拒绝浪漫与性的主导地位。至少，我们该在世界末日时奔向彼此，并接纳所有需要加入的人，包括我们的恋人。然后大家一起等待末日降临，跳舞、互相剃头、吃冰淇淋，为我们美丽而不可思议的友谊满心感激。

But I was completely unprepared. We were queer. We were supposed to refuse the primacy of romance and sex. At the least, we were supposed to run to each other in the apocalypse and invite whoever else needed to be there, including our lovers. And then all of us would wait together for the end times, dancing and buzzing each other's hair, eating ice cream, and bursting with gratitude for our beautiful, improbable friendships.

但米拉没有选择我。更糟的是，我将眼睁睁看着她选择别人。最痛苦的是，我无法指责她的决定，因为我们承诺过允许彼此改变。没有任何书籍、播客或电影能映射我的故事。在这场失去中，我感到彻骨的孤独。

But Meera wasn't choosing me. Worse, I was gonna have to watch her choose someone else. And worse still, I couldn't rail against her decision because we had promised to let each other change. I didn't have a book or a podcast or a movie that reflected my story back at me. I felt totally alone in a loss.

我找不到言语形容。失去的不仅是一个人，还有我如此渴望的一段关系和生活。我几乎要转身离开，仿佛这一切都是场糟糕的实验错误，但我做不到。在她选择别人的伤痛与依赖她带来的羞耻之下，我不想放弃激进友谊，也不想放弃米拉。

I had no words to describe. A loss not just of a person, but of a relationship and a life I so deeply wanted. I almost walked away as if this all had been an experiment and a terrible mistake, but I couldn't. Underneath the hurt that she would choose someone else and the embarrassment of having come to rely on her, I didn't wanna give up on radical friendship. And I didn't wanna give up on Mira.

我本可以贬低她，说她屈服于我们曾厌恶的事物。或者贬低自己，说我的梦想不切实际，期望过高。但这些都不对。末日对话几周后，我和米拉一起参加派对，她用手拢住我的耳朵。

I would have to put her down by saying she gave into the thing we reviled. Or I put myself down by saying my dreams are impossible. I expect too much. And none of that felt right. A few weeks after our apocalypse conversation, Mira and I went to a party together and she cupped her hand around my ear.

“我把你设为紧急联系人，”她说，“在关系栏里写了家人。”昏暗灯光下，我再次感受到每次被她选择时的雀跃，也看出她同样不想失去我。但某些东西改变了，我没有笑。

I put you as my emergency contact, she said. Where it asked for a relationship, I wrote family. In that moment under dimmed lights, I got the same beaming feeling I get every time she chooses me. And I saw that she doesn't wanna lose me either. But something had shifted and I didn't smile.

这次僵坐直视前方的人是我，因为这不够。我沉默思索着如何拼凑一切，最终清晰而非释然地意识到：我们都不知该如何处理这段关系。

This time, I was the one who sat rigid and stared ahead because it wasn't enough. I was quiet, wondering how it all fit together. And I realized not with relief, but with clarity, neither of us know how to do this.

稍后回来。

We'll be right back.

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立即访问wayfair.com选购精心策划的平价秋季焕新系列。Wayfair，万千风格，万家所需。

Head to wayfair.com today to shop curated collections of easy, affordable fall updates. That's wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

这是留待你解读的标题。

It's your headline to unpack.

这是你每周跟进的独家故事。

It's your one story to follow week by week.

这是你要破解的Wordle谜题。

It's your Wordle to work through.

这是你要追踪的队伍。

It's your team to track.

这是你探索的三十六小时。

It's your thirty six hours to explore.

这是你要掌握的腌料配方。

It's your marinade to master.

这是你要理清的观点。

It's your opinion to figure out.

这是你要升级的床垫。

It's your mattress to upgrade.

这是你了解还需为圣母大学做些什么的日子。

It's your day to know what else you need to Notre Dame.

《纽约时报》。这是你要理解的世界。了解更多请访问nytimes.com/yourworld。

The New York Times. It's your world to understand. Find out more at nytimes.com/yourworld.

好的。蕾妮，你刚才读的那篇文章最打动你的是什么？

Okay. Renee, what hit you about that essay you just read?

我想了很多很多。真的太多太多了。其实还好。我专辑里的每首歌都涉及到友谊中那种深刻的情欲张力，无论这些关系最终发展为恋情，还是仅停留在无身体亲密的浪漫层面。因为我和朋友们都非常亲密。

I think so much. So so so so so much. Actually okay. Every single song on my album has to do with, like, the deep homoerotica of friendships, whether those turned romantic or were just romantic without physical intimacy. Because I'm very close with my friends.

就像我重视伴侣那样重视友谊。你们每个人对我都极其重要。如果我失去你们中的任何一个，那将是毁灭性的打击。绝对的毁灭。当然，我女朋友是永远的伴侣。

Like, I value my friendships in the same way I value my partner. Like, you are all so deeply important to me. And if I lost one of you, it would be a fucking intense loss. Intense loss. And obviously, my girlfriend is like, that's my shorty forever.

嗯。但我的朋友们也都有他们自己的浪漫方式。嗯。所以我感觉这完美呈现了这种关系的混乱与艰难，以及那种逐渐意识到什么的感受。

Mhmm. But like, my friends are are are romantic in their own way as well. Mhmm. So I felt that, like, this was just so, like, representative of how messy and difficult it is and how, like, becoming, like, aware of something. Okay.

意识到，意识到，意识到。但当你逐渐发觉与朋友的相处可能不会如你所愿，或是作为另一方明白'这不会如你所愿但我依然爱你'时，对双方都同样艰难。嗯。这种事太常见了。而且这就是女同性恋群体的常态。

Realize, realize, realize. But, like, becoming, like, becoming aware of, like, a situation with your friend that's, like, maybe not gonna turn out the way you want it to or being the friend on the other end and being like, this is not gonna turn out the way you want it to, but love you, is equally really difficult for both people. Mhmm. It happens so often. And also, this is just like the story of, like, gay girls.

就像《拉字至上》演的那样——事情总会这样发展。而你他妈说对了。它就是会这样，它就是...

This is like this is everything that L Word was like, here's what's gonna happen. And you're fucking right. It's like it just is so it's just so, like it's just like

你之前提到的，那种混乱感，特别是在酷儿关系中容易出现的界限模糊。就像文章开头那种感觉——你看着朋友心想'我们要不要直接交往？'懂我意思吗？像是玩笑，又不像玩笑。

And very you said it before, like, the the messiness, the sort of blurring of boundaries that can occur, specifically in a queer relationship. And it's like that feeling, at least the beginning of the essay, where you look at your friend and you're like, should we just date? You know what I mean? And it's kind of a joke, but it's kind of not.

当然。

Of course.

你有过这种经历吗？我

Have you ever had that experience? I

在我的核心朋友圈里就有三四个人

four three people in my friend group in my immediate friend group

你心动过？

You have had crush?

过时了。是啊。是啊。我觉得就像任何身份群体中的同性友谊，特别是根据我的经历，女同性恋或酷儿群体之间的友谊就是如此强烈。它们就是那么强烈。

Dated. Yeah. Yeah. It's like gay friendships amongst, I think, like, any identity, but specifically just from my experience amongst like gay girls or like queer people are just so intense. They're just so intense.

就像我刚才说的，我爱我的女朋友胜过一切。她就像是完美的化身，是最完美的人。我崇拜她，觉得她无可挑剔。而我的友谊关系对我来说同样珍贵。

And kind of like I was saying, like, I love my girlfriend more than anything. She is like the like pinnacle of she's just like the most perfect person. I idolize her. I like think that she's perfect. And my friendships are relationships that I value just as much.

最近有没有哪个瞬间让你感受到与朋友之间那种深刻的亲密感？

What's a moment recently that you felt that deep intimacy with a friend?

我是说，我感觉天啊。我们就是...我们还整天混在一起。所以真的就是无时无刻。比如，

I mean, I felt like god. We just we also hang out all the time. So it's like literally all the time. Like,

每次都是。对。说个具体时刻。嗯。

every time. Yeah. Like a specific moment. Yeah.

我是说，好吧。最近我和我最好的朋友一起去了场演唱会，就是我们俩和各自的女朋友。还有些其他朋友也一起来了之类的。而我其实...我其实没怎么见到她

I mean, okay. So recently, like, my best friend and I were at a concert together, and it was, like, us and our girlfriends. And some of our other friends had come with us and whatever whatever. And I hadn't I hadn't really, like, been seeing her

你女朋友？

Your girlfriend?

没那么频繁。不是。是我一个最好的朋友。明白了。我没能像往常那样经常见到她。

As much. No. One of my best friends. Gotcha. I hadn't been like seeing as much of her as I typically would.

比如，我的朋友圈大概有15到17人。我们每个周末都在一起，周五周六周日基本都在。所有人睡在我们家，然后第二天又继续。那种快乐你根本无法想象。简直就是理想世界。

Like, we my like friend group is like about 15 to 17 deep. Again, we're together every weekend, like probably Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Like, all sleeping at, like, our house, like then starting again the next day. It's the most fun you cannot even imagine. It's an ideal world.

我们真的就是...觉得他妈什么都不重要。太棒了。

We, like, really like, we're, like, nothing fucking matters. It's awesome.

是啊，太棒了。

Yeah. It's awesome.

对，对。

Yeah. Yeah.

你有阵子没见到她了。

You hadn't seen her for a bit.

是啊。我们本来常在一起，但后来就是各忙各的，她到处旅行什么的。可以说她是我朋友圈里最好的朋友，我们之间有种无形的纽带。那段时间见不到她，我想她，她也想我。

Yeah. I like, we had been together, but we just been, like, going out and she'd been traveling and whatever. And this is this is arguably, like, my my best friend in our friend group. And her and I have we're so tethered together. And when I, like, wasn't seeing her, I was missing her and she was missing me.

我们都有意识地——或者说潜意识地——表现出那种'想你啦'的感觉，但谁都没认真说过'我要看着你的眼睛说：我太爱你了，我需要你多陪陪我'这种话。

And we were, like, consciously but subconsciously just kind of, like, being, like, miss you. Like, whatever. Uh-huh. And not really being, like, I'm gonna look you in the eye and be like, I love you so much. I, like, need more from you, and I need more attention.

嗯，你觉得...

Yeah. What do

你觉得为什么你们没有直接表达出这种深厚的感情？

you think was behind that not really articulating, like, the depth of of feeling?

我想是因为我们都太在乎对方，怕自己的需求会给对方压力，结果反而把情绪内化成了对彼此的怨气。后来我和一个圈外好友聊过这事——她虽然不在我们核心朋友圈，但很了解我们，算是编外成员。她比我大十岁，我完全信任她，她就像我的...天啊...像我的北极星同志导师。

Or I think both of us just love each other so much that we didn't want to put off the other one by feeling too like, I need And something from so we internalized it as we were mad at each other. And so I had spoken about it with one of my, like, greatest friends who's not in our immediate friend group, but like knows all of us and is like pretty much embedded. And she's about ten years older than me, and I just like trust her with my life. She's like my, like ugh. She's like my North Star lesbian.

她太完美了。我当时说：'我不知道该怎么办，感觉自己疯了，好像做错了什么。'她就说：'你什么都没做错。'

Like, she's perfect. And I was like, I don't know, like, what to do. I feel crazy. I feel like I've done something wrong. And she was like, you haven't done anything wrong.

'你和她感情这么深，完全可以直接打电话说：我爱你，我想你，我需要你关注我，是不是我做错什么了？'

You and her have such a tight relationship. You just can, like, call her, by the way, and be like, I love you. I miss you. I really want attention from you. Did I do something wrong?

我知道我没有，但你能肯定我吗？

I know that I didn't, but can you affirm me?

但我能不能说，当然，你可以那样做？即使是对亲密朋友，甚至尤其是对非常亲密的朋友，这样做也是多么脆弱的一件事。就像是

But can I just say, of course, you can do that? What a vulnerable thing to do even with a close friend to and perhaps even especially with a really close friend. It's like

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

你们有这样的历史，我不知道。是的。你你他们对你是如此重要。你不想打破那种平衡，对吧？

You have this history to I don't know. Yeah. You you they're so important to you. You don't wanna disrupt that balance. Right?

所以所以这这很让人紧张。

And so and so it's it's nerve racking.

所以我跟她说了，然后果然，我们，比如，去了音乐会，然后，比如，放下了一切。

And so I spoke to her, and then sure enough, we, like, went to the concert and, like, dropped everything.

当你说，比如，我我感觉我需要你。比如，她是怎么回应你的？

When you said, like, I I'm feeling like I need you. Like, what did she say back to that?

她就像，哦，当然，我可以给你关注。我爱你。然后我就想，哦，太好了。然后我们在音乐会上谈了谈，有点醉了，我不记得那么多。但我们就是来回地说，我太爱你了，我好想你。

She was like, oh, of course, I can give you attention. I love you. And I was like, oh, perfect. And then we talked about it at the concert and kind of we were drunk, I don't remember all that much. But we were we were just kind of going back and forth being like, I love you so much, and I've missed you.

我以为你生我气了。然后她说，我以为你生我气了。比如，我们本来应该一起吃晚饭的，但我们没有。然后我就说，亲爱的，我太不靠谱了。那跟你没关系。

I thought you were mad at me. And she was like, I thought you were mad at me. Like, we were supposed to get dinner and we didn't. And I was like, honey, I'm so flaky. That has nothing to do with you.

我正努力记得吃晚饭。比如，我爱你。我只想和你在一起。比如，你是我过去几年生活中最棒的补充。比如，我永远不会如果你做了什么让我不开心的事，我爱你胜过一切，我会走到你面前说，我不开心了。

I'm trying to remember to eat dinner. Like, I love you. All I wanna do is spend time with you. Like, you're the greatest addition to my life that's been in the last couple years. Like, I would never if anything you ever did upset me, I love you more than anything that I would come up to you and be like, I'm upset.

是啊。但实际上，你什么都没做。

Yeah. But in reality, you didn't do anything.

对。那些让我呼吸更顺畅的时刻，因为我自己也有过类似的友情冲突，双方都怀着最好的意图。

Yeah. Those moments of I'm like breathing easier because I've had my own moments of like conflict in a friendship that are like that where both of you have the best intentions.

完全同意。但是

Totally. But

你们在某个根本层面上误解了彼此。而当你大声说出来时，那种感觉就像深深的呼气。我也有过那种非常愉悦、类似嗑药般的感受，你会抱着朋友的脸说：我爱你，我太爱你了。

you're missing each other on some fundamental level. And then just when you say it out loud, it's such a, like, deep exhale. And then also I've had that, like, very fun kind of drug like feeling where you're like, I love you. I love you so much. Just like holding your friend's face and saying, and

这确实。当然了。

it is so Of course.

这种联结是必要的、重要的。

Connective and necessary and important.

哦，这简直是最棒的事。就在上周六，我们在后院都喝得微醺。我的朋友卡西迪看着我们所有人——这种情况经常发生——突然哭起来说：我爱你们。我这辈子从没遇到过这样的朋友群，我们都这么酷儿，这么古怪，在彼此面前做最离谱的事。但我们又都这么可爱性感，最后全都在哭。

Oh, it's the best thing ever. Just this past Saturday, we're all like really tipsy in the backyard. And my friend Cassidy looks over at all of us, and this happens so often, starts crying and is like, I love you guys. I've never had a friend group like this in my life that's like so gay and we're all so weird and, like, we do the most obscene shit around each other. But we're all so cute and so sexy and we're all, like, crying.

她当时原话我记在手机里了，因为觉得太真挚了。她说：你们知道吗，你可以就做你自己，无论那个自己是什么样，那就是你。我们全都又哭又笑，因为她实在太真诚了。但她说的话明明那么可爱。

And she literally said I wrote it down on my phone because I was like, this is belligerent. I love this so much. She was like, you know, you can just, like, be who you are and, like, whoever that is, like, that's who you are. And we all we were crying laughing because she was being so genuine. But what the fuck would it she's saying it was so cute.

这是个循环论证。

That's a circular thing.

你可以做你自己，而无论那个你是谁

You can be who you are, and whoever you are is who

你就是。内心深处。凯丝。

you are. Underneath. Kath.

她在说什么？我认为她实际表达的是，至少在这篇文章的开头部分我能感受到，她感到安全。是的。

What is she saying? What I think she's articulating is actually something I I sense at least in the beginning part of this essay, which is like she feels safe Yes.

和你在一起时。对吧？

With you. Right?

她感到无比安全。听起来你们朋友圈的核心就是这样。是的。这是真正的安全感。

She feels incredibly safe. The the core of your friend group, it sounds like Yeah. Is this real safety.

你甚至无法想象。

You can't even imagine.

在这篇文章的结尾，作者说了什么？她说，我们俩都不知道该怎么做。对吧？我们俩都不知道该怎么做。而我的理解是，她觉得米拉和她都不知道她们的未来关系会如何发展。

It it the end of this essay at the end of this essay, the author says what does she say? She says, we don't neither of us know how to do this. Right? Neither of us know how to do this. And and my read of that is that she feels like Mira and her don't know what the future will hold for their relationship.

她们不知道如何应对即将到来的未知。我想，你已经发现了许多让友谊在你的生活中发挥作用并相互支持的方法。而且你们还有多年的友谊在前方。对吧？你觉得你有友谊的蓝图吗？

They don't know how to navigate the sort of the unknown of of what's to come. And I guess, you know, you're you you've discovered all these things about ways to make friendship work and be supportive in your life. And also there's many years of friendship ahead of you to go. Right? You feel like you know do you feel like you have a blueprint for friendship?

我不认为我有。比如，你知道该怎么做吗？

I don't think I Like, do you know how to do this?

我不认为我有蓝图，但我确切地知道我想要什么和需要什么。如果我不知道，我也知道如何询问。并且请求，比如，如果我错了或改变了，请求一些原谅。

I don't think I have a blueprint, but I do know exactly what I want and what I need. And if I don't know, then I know how to ask for it. And ask for, like, some, like, forgiveness if I'm wrong or if I change.

你会担心随着年龄增长，你的友谊会发生变化吗？

Do you worry about your friendships changing as you get older?

不。真的吗？也不尽然。因为我觉得，友谊本质上就是会变化的。它们就是会这样。

No. Really? Not really. Because I like, friendships just inherently do change. Like, they just do.

就像，它们它们就是会变。比如和阿莉娅，她现在住在纽约而我住在洛杉矶，所以我们的友谊本质上就会改变。我们见面少了。就是...我不知道。它总是在变化。

Like like, they they they just change. Like, even like with Aliyah like, Aliyah lives in New York now and I live in LA, so inherently our friendship will will change. We see each other less. It just I don't know. It, always changes.

我现在意识到，你说这群朋友是15到17人。对。这是个...我们最开始聊的是女生小团体，通常是三四个，也许五个。哦对。广义上的大群体。

I am realizing I mean, you said this this group of friends is 15 to 17 Yeah. Which is a mat we we started off talking about girl groups, usually, like, three, four, maybe five. Oh, yeah. Have a big girl in the broadest sense.

当然。我们每天都聊天。

Of course. We talk we talk every single day.

好的。我正要问这个。你们肯定有群聊吧。不止一个。

Okay. This is what I'm gonna ask. Yeah. You have a group chat, I'm sure. Multiple.

我猜你手机开着勿扰模式之类的。当你重新打开时，会不会收到无数条群聊消息...

I imagine your phone's on, like, do not disturb or whatever. When you turn it back on, will you have a million group text chats from

你都无法想象。我们总开玩笑说，当我们在群里活跃时，那是世界上最棒的事。但当有人在工作没看手机时，就他妈太烦人了，因为群聊会有2000多条未读。简直像本小说。

You can't even imagine. We we always make this joke that, like, when we're active in the group chat, it is the greatest thing ever. And when one of us are, like, working and, like, not doing it, it is so fucking annoying because the group chat's got, like, 2,000 unreads. It's a novel.

是啊。真的像小说。也许你可以回来给我们读读那个群聊的精选版。蕾妮·拉普。多有趣。

Yeah. It really is a novel. Maybe you come back and you read us a a version of that group chat. Renee Rappe. What fun.

感谢你今天来到演播室。谢谢。《现代爱情》团队成员包括艾米·珀尔、克里斯蒂娜·约瑟夫、戴维斯·兰德、艾丽莎·古铁雷斯、艾米丽·朗、珍·波扬特、琳恩·利维、里瓦·戈德堡和莎拉·柯蒂斯。本期节目由艾米丽·朗制作，戴维斯·兰德和琳恩·利维编辑。

Thank you for coming into the studio today. Thanks, man. The Modern Love team is Amy Pearl, Christina Joseph, Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Emily Lang, Jen Poyant, Lynn Levy, Riva Goldberg, and Sarah Curtis. This episode was produced by Emily Lang. It was edited by Davis Land and Lynn Levy.

本期混音由丹尼尔·拉米雷斯完成，录音棚技术支持来自麦迪·马西洛和尼克·皮特曼。视频团队是布鲁克·明特斯、索菲·埃里克森和阿尔弗雷多·基亚拉帕。《现代爱情》主题音乐由丹·鲍威尔创作。本期原创音乐来自卡罗尔·萨瓦罗、丹·鲍威尔和罗温·内米斯托。特别感谢米希玛·查布拉尼、杰弗里·米兰达和凯瑟琳·奥布莱恩。

This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez with studio support from Maddie Masiello and Nick Pittman. Our video team is Brooke Minters, Sophie Erickson, and Alfredo Quiarapa. The Modern Love theme music is by Dan Powell. Original music in this episode by Carol Savarro, Dan Powell, and Rowan Nemisto. Special thanks to Mihima Chablani, Jeffrey Miranda, and Kathleen O'Brien.

《现代爱情》专栏由丹尼尔·琼斯编辑。李米娅是《现代爱情》项目的负责人。如果您想向《纽约时报》投稿一篇散文或微型爱情故事，我们的节目说明中提供了投稿指南。我是安娜·马丁。感谢您的收听。

The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we have the instructions in our show notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.