那次我给丈夫的女友买了块墓地

然后我坐在她旁边，他就挪过来，做了同样的动作。

And then I was sitting next to her, so then he moved over and did the same thing.

他把手搭在我肩上说，好了，亲爱的。

He puts his hands on my shoulder and said, okay, honey.

该走了。

It's time to go.

大家都乐坏了。

And everybody just cracked up.

太喜欢这个了。

I love that.

我是说，那一刻本来可能会很尴尬，但他巧妙地化解了。

I mean, the it was it was like he took a moment that could have been tense.

毕竟女朋友和老婆都在场，这情况确实挺微妙的。

I mean, is odd to have the girlfriend and the wife there.

而且人家还是正牌妻子呢。

Still wife.

对。

Yeah.

离婚的是妻子。

The divorce is the wife.

是的。

Yeah.

还是妻子。

Was still the wife.

这确实不常见，但他轻松化解了尴尬。

I mean, it's unusual, and he just diffused it.

你知道吗，他其实可以很幽默。

You know, he could be very funny.

只要他想，就能做到，那一刻真的太棒了。

He could and if he wanted to be, and it was just such a great moment.

既好笑又真实。

It was so funny and so real.

这有没有让你更确信这是对的？

Did it make you feel even more so like this is right?

这是必须做出的决定，

This is the decision that had to

必须得做？

be made?

确实如此。

It did.

当时就觉得，这事儿能成。

It it was like, this is gonna work.

他迟早会娶她，我就能搬回我想去的城市，一切都会好起来。

He's gonna eventually marry her, and I'll be able to move back to the city where I wanna be, and all will be good.

就在罗宾刚适应这个局面时，一切突然变了。

Just as Robin was getting comfortable with the situation, everything suddenly changed.

这时候我们就要回来了。

That's when we come back.

请继续收听。

Stay with us.

我是莫里斯·谢马，《最后十二周》的主持人，这是Serial Productions、马歇尔项目与《纽约时报》联合推出的新播客。

This is Maurice Schema, host of the last twelve weeks, a new podcast from Serial Productions, The Marshall Project, and The New York Times.

几年前，我收到一位辩护律师的邮件，他希望我写写他的当事人。

A couple of years back, I got an email from a defense lawyer who wanted me to write about his client.

当事人叫大卫·伍德，在得克萨斯州死囚区关了三十多年。

The client, David Wood, was on death row in Texas, had been there for more than thirty years.

律师写信是因为大卫·伍德的所有上诉都失败了。

The lawyer was writing because David Wood had lost all of his appeals.

他即将被处决。

He was set to be executed.

律师阻止处决的计划是试图证明一件事——三十年来没人成功过——那就是得克萨斯州最臭名昭著的连环杀手之一其实是无辜的。

The lawyer's plan to stop the execution was to try and prove something that nobody had successfully done in three decades, That one of Texas' most notorious serial killers was actually innocent.

并不是说律师们没有证据。

It wasn't that the lawyers didn't have a case to make.

我知道有两个人捏造证词，就是为了让一个人被处决。

I know two people fabricated testimony to get a guy executed.

问题在于，他们根本没有多少时间去证明这一点。

It's just that they had so little time to make it.

最后十二周。

The last twelve weeks.

欢迎在各大播客平台收听。

Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

跟我说说你最后一次见到马克是什么时候。

Tell me about the last time you saw Mark.

好的。

Sure.

那是一个美好的周日下午，我当时在后院。

It was it was a beautiful Sunday afternoon, and I was in the backyard.

他打电话来说，我能过来和孩子们一起玩吗？

And he called and said, can I come over and hang with the kids?

那个周末他跟他一个朋友出去了。

He had been away that weekend with a buddy of his.

我就说，好啊。

And I said, sure.

我还开了个玩笑。

I I joked.

我说，你可以过来把游泳池吸一下。

I said, you can come in and vacuum out the pool.

你懂吧？

You know?

然后他就过来了，我们在车道上搭了个小篮球架。

So he came over, and we had, like, a little basketball thing set up in the driveway.

我记得他跟孩子们在投篮。

I remember he was shooting hoops with the kids.

我们就在游泳池边坐着。

We sat around the pool.

我们聊了聊天。

We talked.

具体细节我记不清了，但只记得那是个很愉快的下午，我们没有争吵，我还在想，如果婚姻里能多些这样的时光，也许我们就能一直在一起了。

I I don't remember the details, but I remember just it being a lovely afternoon where we were not arguing and thinking that had it been like this more often during our marriage that maybe we would have stayed together.

然后大概下午四点，我坐在外面的椅子上看书，听到他说：“我走了。”

And then around 04:00, I was sitting in the chair outside, and I was reading, and I heard him say, I'm leaving.

你们拥抱告别了吗？

Did you hug goodbye?

没有。

No.

没有。

We didn't.

我们没有拥抱告别。

We didn't hug goodbye.

我只记得听到他说“我走了”，那是我最后一次听到他说话，就是那句“我走了”。

I just remember hearing him say, I'm leaving, and those were the last words I ever heard him say, I'm leaving.

因为那天晚上他心脏病发作了。

Because that was the night he had a heart attack.

跟我说说你是怎么知道的。

Tell me about how you found that out.

那天晚饭后，我在自己房间里看电视。

It was in the evening after dinner, and I was watching TV in my room.

然后他女朋友打来了电话。

And his girlfriend called.

就是那时候她告诉我他心脏病发作了。

And that's when she told me he had a heart attack.

她是个护士。

And she was a nurse.

她说她给他做了心肺复苏。

She did CPR on him, she said.

然后他们打了911。

And they call she called 911.

然后，那个，你知道，救护车来了。

And, the, you know, the ambulance came.

但我觉得他们花了将近四十分钟才恢复正常的窦性心律。

But it took them, I think, close to forty minutes to get a normal sinus rhythm back.

所以这时间太长了。

So that's, like, too long.

你明白吗？

You know?

是的。

Yeah.

然后他就在急诊室了，她让我赶紧过去。

And so he was now in the ER, and she said, come quickly.

他当时多大年纪？

And how old was he at the time?

57岁。

57.

所以他当时还很年轻。

So he was young.

是的。

Yeah.

我去接孩子们。

I got the kids.

我们三个上了车，开车去医院。

The three of us get in the car, and we drive to the hospital.

那是个星期天的晚上。

And it was a Sunday night.

医院里很安静。

It was very quiet there.

那里有个急诊室的工作人员。

And there was this ER attendant.

我猜他大概是个保安。

I guess he was like a security guard.

我走进去，说了我们要见谁。

So I walk in and I said who we were there to see.

然后他说，哦，好吧，他把我们带进了一个等候室。

And he said, oh, well, he ushers us us into this waiting room.

他说，你们得在这里等着，因为医生正在和家属谈话。

And he said, well, you guys are gonna have to wait in here because the doctor is talking to the family.

然后你

And you were

当时他女朋友也在，而且我姐夫也刚到。

like his girlfriend was there, and also turns out my brother-in-law had just gotten there too.

所以我说，我们就是家属。

So I said, well, we are the family.

他看着我，问，你是谁？

And he looks at me and goes, who are you?

我说，我是他妻子，这些是他的孩子。

And I said, I'm his wife, and these are his kids.

他脸上的表情就像是在说，这下可糟了。

The look on his face was like, this can't be good.

我真希望当时拍下他的脸，因为我整个人都懵了，心想什么情况？

I mean, I wish I had taken a picture of his face because I was just like, what?

谁啊，对吧。

Who right.

里面那个女人是谁？

Who's that lady in there?

你有没有解释一下？

Did you did you explain?

比如，那个女孩还好吗？

Like, is the girl okay.

他们

Were

就直接把你安排进去了。

just like, put you in there.

是的。

Yeah.

对，就是这样。

So yeah.

然后我就被带进了医生的房间。

Then we're, then I'm ushered into the into the room with the doctor.

有个ICU护士还跟我说，当时发现他有老婆和女朋友的时候，大家都做好了心理准备，你懂的？

And one of the ICU nurses said to me at one point, when we found out there was a wife and a girlfriend, we were all, you know, prepared for, like you know?

结果看到大家相处得这么好，她们还挺欣慰的。

And they were so pleased to see how well everybody got along.

哇。

Wow.

本来情况就已经很糟糕了，没必要再火上浇油。

We're in a terrible situation to begin with, and there was no reason to make it worse.

而且我也挺同情他女朋友的。

And and I also felt for his girlfriend.

我觉得这对她来说肯定特别尴尬。

I mean, it had I I thought this has to be so awkward for her.

我只是不想让她觉得我在排挤她，好像我在说‘让开’，

I just wanted her to not feel like like I I'm elbowing her out like, hey, get out of

别挡道。

the way.

现在我是正牌妻子了。

I'm the wife now.

你，你知道的，这里不需要你了。

You, you know, you're not needed here.

而且从情感上来说，我敢肯定她也非常痛苦。

And emotionally, she is, I'm sure, distraught as well.

对吧？

Right?

哦，她非常……我是说，他是当着她的面心脏病发作的。

Oh, she's very I mean, he had a heart attack in front of her.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

她才是那个在应对一切的人。我坐在家里看HBO，我是他的妻子，而她是他的女朋友，没有法律上的关系，但她才是真正痛苦的那个人。

She was the one dealing I mean, I'm sitting home watching HBO, and I'm the wife, and she's the girlfriend who doesn't have a legal bond to him, and yet she's the one who's really suffering.

我有时候觉得，我在这里干什么呢？

It just partly, I felt like, what am I doing here?

因为你要知道，那时候我们已经分居两年了。

Because remember, we were separated for two years at that point.

我们已经有两年没有在一起了。

He we had not been together for two years.

他和她在一起。

He's with her.

我在约会。

I'm dating.

你知道吗？

You know?

我把他称为前夫。

We I refer to him as my ex.

结果现在突然之间，我成了妻子。

So now suddenly, I'm the wife.

这真的让我很震惊。

That that's what kinda blew my mind.

就好像我们过着各自的生活。

It's like we are leading separate lives.

我们都有离婚律师。

We have divorce attorneys.

现在突然之间，所有人都把我当成妻子来对待。

And now suddenly, everyone's treating me like, well, you're the wife.

你是负责人。

You're in charge.

你是医疗代理人。

You're the health care proxy.

你是孩子的母亲，所有人都看着我。

You're the mother of the children, and everyone's kinda looking at me.

当确定马克无法康复时，你决定怎么做？

Once it was clear that Mark was not going to recover, what did you decide to do?

我们决定撤掉生命维持系统，因为医生说没有希望了。

We decided to take them off life support because they said, you know, there's no hope.

大脑功能几乎没有了。

There's very little brain function.

所以我得去买墓地。

So I had to get a burial plot.

我们之前没有墓地。

We didn't have burial plots.

我们从来没讨论过这件事。

We'd never spoke about it.

我们当时还有别的事情要处理。

We we had other issues we were dealing with.

然后我嫂子对我说，那你为什么不买两块墓地呢？

And my sister-in-law said to me, well, why don't you buy two plots?

一块给马克，一块给他女朋友。

One for Mark and one for his girlfriend.

我当时就看着她，心里想，我觉得她是不是疯了，因为我觉得她以后会遇见别人的。

And I just I'd looked at her, and I thought I I thought I looked at her like she was crazy because I I thought she'll meet somebody else.

你明白吗？

You know?

我当时没说出来，但心里在想，她又不是《远大前程》里的郝薇香小姐。

Like, I didn't say this, but I'm thinking, why would she it's not like she's miss Havisham from, you know, great expectations.

她不可能穿着婚纱，挂着蜘蛛网，就这么过五十年吧。

She's gonna be in her wedding dress with cobwebs, you know, for the next fifty years.

我是说，她会有自己的生活。

I mean, she'll she'll have a life.

我后来想了想，觉得如果这能让她感到被接纳，那也行吧。

And I thought about it, and I thought, well, if it helps her to feel included, okay.

好吧。

Fine.

然后我走过去跟她说，我打算买两块墓地。

And I went over, and I said, you know, I'm gonna get two burial plots.

如果你想要一块，你要不要？

And if you want one you want a plot?

给你。

Here.

免费送你一块墓地。

Here's a free burial.

我记不清具体怎么跟她说的了，但她立刻激动地说谢谢。

I I did I don't remember exactly how I said it to her, but she immediately burst in like, said thank you.

她当时就流下了那种开心的眼泪，或者说是感动的眼泪。

Like, she burst into these sort of happy tears or emotional tears.

我觉得她很感激这个被接纳的举动。

Like, I I think she appreciated this gesture of inclusion.

跟我说说你去墓地买墓地的事，后来怎么样了？

Tell me about when you went to the cemetery to buy these plots and and what happened.

那是周五早上，他当天下午就要被拔掉生命维持系统了。

It was Friday morning, and he was being taken off life support that afternoon.

所以我基本上只有几个小时去买这块墓地。

So I basically had just a few hours to get this burial plot.

我在墓地和我姐夫碰了面。

And I met my brother-in-law at the cemetery.

他哥哥，马克的哥哥？

His brother, Mark's brother?

马克的哥哥。

Mark's brother.

对。

Yes.

然后我们走进了一间销售办公室，大概吧。

And we go into a sales office, I guess.

那是个普通的办公室，有张大桌子，墓地的销售员坐在对面。

It's like a regular office with a big desk, and the sales guy for the cemetery is sitting on the other side.

我跟他说了情况，解释了一下。

And I explained I said I told him the situation.

他现在靠生命维持系统撑着。

He's on life support.

估计挺不过去了，所以我想买两块墓地。

He's not expected to survive, so I want to buy two plots.

销售员表示哀悼，然后说，我猜你们想要双人墓碑吧。

So the sales guy expresses his condolences, and he said, I assume you'll want a double stone.

我说，另一块不是给我的。

So I said, well, the other plot isn't for me.

是给他女朋友的。

It's for his girlfriend.

他眉毛都挑到头顶了，然后说，好吧。

He's like, his eyebrows go up into his to the top of his head, and he's like, okay.

他看向我姐夫，因为他觉得我在跟一个疯老婆打交道。

He looks to my brother-in-law because he's thinking, I'm dealing with a crazy wife.

然后我姐夫说，呃，他们当时正在办离婚。

So, my brother-in-law said, well, they were getting divorced.

这时候那个销售员就开始翻文件，我能想象他脑子里大概在想，好吧。

At that point, the sales guy's got like, you can see him, like, shuffling papers, and he's thinking I I imagine, like, the thought bubble on his head was like, okay.

如果这个老婆想给那个跟她离婚的男人和他的女朋友买墓地，那不关我的事。

If this wife wants to buy a burial plot for her the guy she's divorcing and his girlfriend, not my problem.

这事儿真的挺……

It's just it was really

但你还是做了。

So but he but he you did it.

你买了。

You bought it.

买了两个墓地。

Bought the two plots.

但接下来你得琢磨，马克的碑文要怎么写。

But then you have to figure out, obviously, what to write for Mark.

你是怎么想出来的？

How did you figure that out?

那可真不容易。

That was not was not easy.

我想体现我们之间的真实关系，而不是别人以为的那种。

I wanted to reflect the relationship that we had, not, you know, the relationship that everyone would assume.

因为通常最上面会写‘挚爱的丈夫’。

Because normally, it would say beloved husband, and that would come at the top.

然后就是父亲、兄弟之类的。

And then, you know, father, brother, you know, whatever.

所以，这个嘛……

So, this was

你拿出一张纸来。

You're pulling out a paper.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我在最上面写了‘慈爱的父亲’，因为这是他最重要的角色；然后是‘体贴的丈夫’、‘孝顺的儿子’，因为他父亲还在世；接着是‘亲爱的兄弟和叔叔’；最下面写了他女朋友的，‘挚爱的伴侣’。

I I at the top, it says, loving father, because that was his most important role, caring husband, devoted son, because his dad was still alive, dear brother and uncle, and then for his girlfriend at the bottom, beloved companion.

有意思的是，很多年后有人告诉我，‘伴侣’这个词听起来像在说宠物。

It's interesting because someone told me, like, years later that companion means, like, your pet.

我正想说这听起来有点像狗。

I was gonna say it sounds kinda like a dog.

对。

Yeah.

我当时就想，哎呀，天哪。

And I was like, oh, jeez.

而且现在改也来不及了。

And it's kinda too late to change.

是啊，这都刻在石头上了。

Like, it's it's literally written in stone.

什么？

What?

对。

Right.

确实是刻在石头上的。

It's literally written in stone.

我就是觉得，上面写着‘慈爱的父亲’，下面又写‘亲爱的伴侣’，尤其还有‘体贴的丈夫’，感觉有点怪。

Well, I just thought beloved boyfriend, especially when you have caring husband.

我也不太确定。

I don't know.

我觉得这样已经挺全面的了。

I think that covers the bases.

对。

Yeah.

我当时就想，什么？

It was like, what?

伴侣和丈夫？

Companion and husband?

好吧。

Okay.

我本来可以写成‘即将成为前夫’的。

I could have written soon to be ex husband.

也许那样更好。

Maybe that would have been better.

随着

As the

时间推移，马克的女友葬在马克旁边这个想法，大家还觉得合适吗？

years passed, did the idea of Mark's girlfriend being buried next to Mark still seem like the right thing for everyone?

你知道吗，头一两年我们确实还保持联系。

You know, we stayed in touch the first, you know, year or two.

我们肯定有保持联系，特别是在生日或者忌日的时候。

We we definitely stayed in touch, especially on birthdays or on the anniversary of the death.

我们还会请她来吃饭什么的。

You know, we invited her to dinners, things like that.

但时间一长，大家就开始各自过各自的生活了。

But then as time went on, you just start to move on with your life.

而且你知道吗，我当时得分36个月付清墓地的费用。

And by the time you know, I had to pay off the cemetery in 36 monthly installments.

所以过了三年我才拿到墓地所有权证。等我收到邮寄来的证书时，我已经搬回曼哈顿住了。

So it was three years before I finally got the deed to So the by the time I got the deed in the mail, I was living back in Manhattan.

那那个时候，你

And And were you still

还和那个女朋友有联系吗？

in touch with a girlfriend by that point?

那时候联系不多了。

Not that much at that point.

对。

No.

感觉就像，我难道要发邮件跟她说，嘿，我拿到地契了？

It was like, am I supposed to, like, email her and say, hey, I got the deed.

都过去三年了。

It's three years later.

你还感兴趣吗？

Are you still interested?

就是这种感觉。

It's like Yeah.

整件事都挺奇怪的。

The whole thing just was bizarre.

但我从别人那里听说她已经结婚了。

But I found out through the grapevine that she had gotten married.

我就给她发了条短信说，恭喜啊。

And I texted her saying, congratulations.

听说你结婚了。

I heard you got married.

她这才回我说，谢谢，孩子们怎么样，我想你们了。

That's when she texted back, thank you, and how are the kids, and I miss you guys.

语气特别温暖。

It was really warm.

你懂吧？

You know?

那是五年前的事了。

Was five years ago.

我想那时候我才意识到，显然她并不想把这事儿藏着掖着。

And I guess that was the point when I realized, well, clearly, she doesn't want this buried for blood.

对。

Right.

你知道，就像，嗨。

You know, it's like, hi.

我知道你已经再婚了，但你还想被埋在一起吗？

I know you're remarried, but are you still interested in being buried

下周？

next week?

现在不是提这个的时候。

Not the time to bring it up now.

对。

Yeah.

但这并没有回答那个问题：那你怎么办呢？

But that doesn't answer the question of, well, so what do you do?

我的意思是，你拥有它。

I mean, you have it.

你拥有它。

You own it.

我拥有它。

I own it.

你已经付清了。

You paid it off.

对，没错。

Well, right.

我纠结的是这个。

Here's what I wrestle with.

我纠结的是，你会不会葬在你正在离婚的那个人旁边？

I wrestle with, do you get buried next to the guy you were divorcing?

这是第一个问题。

That's number one.

另一个问题是，我从来不想住在那边，也从来不想离开城市，更不想搬到郊区去。

And then the other question is, I I never wanted to live out there and never really wanted to leave the city and never wanted to move to the suburbs.

所以我就想，那我干嘛要永远待在那儿呢？

So I was like, well, why would I wanna spend eternity there?

埋在那个整天跟我吵架的男人旁边。

Buried next to the guy who all we did was bicker.

感觉就是，嗯

It was like, well

所以听起来你其实还是——简单来说，你还是不知道这块地要怎么处理。

So it sounds like you very much still the short version of it is you still don't know what you're gonna do with this plot.

你知道，我还是可以把它卖掉。

You know, I still could sell it.

对。

Uh-huh.

但我一直没采取行动，这本身就说明我其实已经做了决定——只是通过不做决定的方式。

But the fact that I have not done a thing kind of means that I made a decision just by not making a decision.

这说明了什么？

What does that tell you?

是的。

Yeah.

那这说明了什么呢？

What does that tell you?

这说明从很多方面来看，这事儿根本说不通。

It tells me that it's like it doesn't make any sense on a lot of levels.

但从很多方面来说，我待在那儿又确实有道理，因为不然我还能去哪儿呢？

But on a lot of levels, it does make sense for me to be there because where else would I be?

我反正都要死了。

I'll be dead.

我到底想证明什么呢？

What am I trying to prove?

你之前说过，马克活着的时候，凡事都想按他的意思来。

You said in in life, Mark really wanted things his way.

我觉得，如果最后真如他所愿，你还是葬在了长岛，那还挺讽刺的，但确实也挺有意思。

And I think it's it'll be funny in a in a dark way, but in a funny way if he gets his way and you end up on Long Island after all.

你这话说得真是一针见血。

That's so perceptive.

他还是按他的意思来了。

He's still getting his way.

就算死了，他还是按他的意思来。我们订婚的时候，我根本不想搬去那边。

Even in death, he's still getting his I I did not wanna move out there when we when we got engaged.

我以前总跟他说，我要搬回城里。

It was I used to say to him, I'm moving back to the city.

你要么跟我一起走，要么就别跟来。

You're either coming with me or you're not.

可现在他，他硬是把我……

But now he's he's drag he's

就像他硬是把你……

like He's dragging

硬是把我拽回去，这次是永远了。

me dragging me back, and this time forever.

如果你……

If you

最后葬在长岛那个墓园里，挨着马克，听起来你真有这个可能。

end up buried next to Mark on that cemetery in Long Island, which it sounds like you you might.

好吧。

Okay.

那是很多很多很多年前的事了。

Many, many, many years ago.

很多年。

Years.

天哪。

Oh my god.

太多年了。

So many.

真的很多年。

So many years.

你觉得他会说什么？

What do you think he would say?

比如他会翻个身说，

Like, he'd roll over and be like,

罗宾，你来了。

Robin, you're here.

你去哪儿购物了？

Where did you go shopping?

对。

Yeah.

你生菜花了多少钱？

How much did you pay for lettuce?

转弯。

Take turn.

右转。

Take a right turn.

是的。

Yeah.

多少钱

How much did

你买生菜花了多少钱？

you pay for lettuce?

别的地方更便宜。

It's cheaper at the other place.

我本来想说我要死了，但是

I was gonna say I'm dead, but

那可不行。

that's not alright.

那

That's

那太好笑了。

that's so funny.

对。

Yeah.

我们就会一直吵到天荒地老，就为了那句‘我不喜欢那些花’。

We'll just be bickering into eternity about I don't like those flowers.

换一盆，换一盆别的植物。

Get a different different plant.

我觉得吧，就是，对。

I it's just yeah.

它

It

你最近有没有去看过马克？

Have you have you been out to visit Mark recently?

去过。

Yes.

我去过几次。

I was out there a few times.

最近一次是去年，我过去看了看他，跟他说了说话，告诉他最近怎么样。

Most recently was sometime last year, And I went over and just kinda looked at him and talked to him and told him what was up.

然后我看着旁边那个空位，心想，那真的是我最终的归宿吗？

And then I looked at the space next to him and thought, is that really where I'm gonna end up?

你看着那个空位的时候，心里是什么感觉？

And how did you feel looking at that empty space?

感觉很奇怪。

It felt strange.

真的特别奇怪，因为我一直怀疑，当初给他女朋友买那块墓地，会不会其实从一开始就是给我准备的——你知道，不管离不离婚。

It felt really strange because I always wondered if buying that plot for his girlfriend was really just a way of that maybe it was for me all along, you know, getting divorced or not.

我们那么努力地想要维持这段婚姻。

We struggled so hard to make this marriage work.

后来确实分开了，但又从来没有真正分开过。

And then we actually did split up, but we never really split up.

就好像我们分开了，可实际上还是夫妻。

It's like we split up, but we were still married.

然后他去世了，所以我感觉，从他去世前到去世后，我整个人生都在努力和他分开。

And then he died, so I feel like I've spent my entire time with him before he died and after trying to split up.

你知道，分手这件事本身就很难。

You know, it just splitting up is hard.

有时候要花很长时间。

Sometimes it takes forever.

罗宾，非常感谢你这次谈话。

Robin, thank you so much for this conversation.

我们聊了这么多关于死亡的话题，但不知怎么的，

It was we talked about death so much and still somehow

而且我们还在笑。

And it was a we're still laughing.

我们都在笑。

We're laughing.

安娜，能和你聊这些真的很愉快。

Anna, this was it's such a pleasure speaking to you about this.

非常感谢你。

Thank you so much.

不客气。

You're very welcome.

谢谢。

Thank you.

本期《现代爱情》由艾米·珀尔制作，里瓦·戈德伯格和戴维斯·兰德协助。

This episode of Modern Love was produced by Amy Pearl with help from Riva Goldberg and Davis Land.

由我们的执行制作人珍负责编辑。

It was edited by our executive producer, Jen.

制作管理由克里斯蒂娜·约瑟夫负责。

Production management by Christina Joseph.

《现代爱情》的主题音乐由丹·鲍威尔创作。

The Modern Love theme music is by Dan Powell.

原创音乐由罗恩·内米斯托、阿曼·萨霍塔和玛丽昂·洛萨诺提供。

Original music by Rowan Nemisto, Ahman Sahota, and Marion Lozano.

本期节目由丹尼尔·拉米雷斯混音。

This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez.

录音室支持来自麦迪·马西埃洛和尼克·皮特曼。

Studio support from Maddie Massiello and Nick Pittman.

特别感谢贝赫玛·乔布拉尼、内尔加·洛格利、杰弗里·米兰达和保拉·舒曼。

Special thanks to Behema Choblany, Nelga Logley, Jeffrey Miranda, and Paula Schuman.

《现代爱情》专栏由丹尼尔·琼斯编辑。

The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones.

米娅·李是《现代爱情》项目的编辑。

Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects.

如果你想向《纽约时报》投稿一篇散文或微型爱情故事，我们的节目说明里有投稿指南。

If you wanna submit an essay or a tiny love story to The New York Times, we've got the instructions in our show notes.

我是安娜·马丁。

I'm Anna Martin.

感谢收听。

Thanks for listening.