安德烈娅·吉布森为他们的遗孀写的情诗……也献给你

美与赢得网球大满贯、赋能社区或在南美洲的荒野中追踪美洲豹有何关联？大家好，我是伊莎贝拉·罗西里尼，欢迎回到《这不是美容播客》第二季。在这里，我将揭示美如何贯穿我们生活的每个角落。请通过您喜爱的播客平台收听欧莱雅集团出品的《这不是美容播客》。

What does beauty have to do with winning a tennis grand slam or empowering communities or tracking jaguars through the wild heart of South America? Hi there. I'm Isabella Rossellini, and I'm back with season two of this is not a beauty podcast where I uncover stories that get to the heart of how beauty is woven through every facet of our lives. Listen to this is not a beauty podcast from L'Oreal Group on your favorite podcast platform.

嘿，大家好，我是安娜。看啊，感恩节转眼就要到了，简直难以置信。

Hey, everyone. It's Anna. Look. Thanksgiving is coming up already. I can hardly believe it.

虽然难以置信，但感恩节确实近在眼前。对许多人而言，感恩节意味着家庭团聚——这固然美好，但也可能暗藏难题。如果您计划在这个假期与家人相聚，我们希望能提供帮助。您是否需要一些建议？比如是否每年都会爆发争吵，而今年您想避免这种情况？

You can hardly believe it, but it's around the corner. And for a lot of people, Thanksgiving means seeing your family, which can be wonderful, but it can also be tricky. So if you're going to see your family this holiday season, we want to help. Is there anything you could use some advice on? Like, for example, is there always a fight that comes up and you wanna avoid it this year?

或许有人已经离世，没有他们的节日会格外艰难，您希望获得应对建议；又或许您将带新伴侣回家，担心场面尴尬。如果您需要处理这类家庭问题的建议，请发送语音备忘录至modernlovepodcast@nytimes.com，描述您的情况并提出疑问。

Or maybe someone's passed away and it's gonna be tough without them, and you'd like tips on how to navigate that. Or maybe you're bringing home a new partner and you're afraid it's gonna be awkward. If you're looking for advice on any of these questions or other questions about dealing with your family, send us a voice memo explaining your situation and asking your question. You can send it to modernlovepodcast@nytimes.com. That's modernlovepodcast@nytimes.com.

我们期待您的来信。

We look forward to hearing from you.

爱在当下与未来。坠入

Love now and tomorrow. Fall in

昨夜爱河。爱能战胜一切。为爱而生。爱。我能否爱你胜过世间万物？

love last night. Love is stronger than anything. For the love. Love. Can I love you more than anything?

爱。这就是爱。

Love. There's to love.

我是《纽约时报》的安娜·马丁，这里是《现代爱情》。今天，我将与梅根·福莱对话。福莱是一位获奖诗人，也是科罗拉多州桂冠诗人安德烈娅·吉布森的伴侣。去年七月，吉布森在与卵巢癌抗争四年后离世。

From The New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Today, I'm talking to Megan Fowley. Fowley is known as an award winning poet and is the partner of the poet laureate of Colorado, Andrea Gibson. This past July, Gibson died after four years of living with ovarian cancer.

我清晰记得安德烈娅去世那天。我的社交媒体被铺天盖地的真挚悼念淹没——人们转发她的诗作，讲述这些诗歌如何在他们最黑暗的岁月里给予力量。所有人都深切感受到这份失去的重量，这完全在情理之中。

And I distinctly remember the day Andrea passed. My social media was flooded with all of these heartfelt tributes to them. People reposting their poems, talking about what those poems meant to them, how they helped them in really dark times. It was so clear how much people felt this loss. And that made sense.

安德烈娅·吉布森一生都在倡导深刻感受情绪。她甚至出售印有'感受不是敌人'字样的周边商品。在与梅根·福莱共度的时光里，她们几乎探索了两个人能共同体验的所有情感。这段感人至深的爱情故事成为新纪录片《在美好光景中见我》的核心。尽管观影结束时我泪流满面，但最震撼我的是这两位诗人散发出的耀眼光芒。

Andrea Gibson was all about feeling things and feeling them deeply. They even sold merch that said things like feelings are not the enemy. And in their time together, it seems like Andrea Gibson and Megan Fowley explored just about every emotion two people can have together. Andrea and Megan's deeply moving love story is the focus of a new documentary called Come See Me in the Good Light. And even though by the end of this movie, I was really in tears, what hit me was just how much joy these two poets radiated.

在本期《现代爱情》中，我将与梅根探讨：明知终将失去却依然炽热去爱是怎样的体验？以及安德烈娅离世后，她如何依然鲜活地存在着。梅根·福莱，欢迎来到《现代爱情》。

On today's episode of Modern Love, I talk with Meghan about what it was like to love fiercely, even when she knew she was going to lose, and how despite Andrea's passing, they are very much still here. Megan Falley, welcome to Modern Love.

谢谢，非常荣幸能参与节目。

Thank you. I am really excited to be here.

梅根，你最近写了篇题为《别问寡妇这个问题》的文章。文中提到你最抗拒被询问某个问题——虽然我本想以此开场，但现在决定尊重你的意愿。你不想被问'你还好吗'，为什么这个问题会让你不适？

Megan, you recently wrote an essay called don't ask a widow this. And in it, you mention not wanting to be asked the question, which I was tempted to start the interview with, but which I'm not going to anymore. You don't wanna be asked this question, how are you? Why don't you want that question?

作为一个如此崇敬语言的人，我觉得‘你好吗’这样的问候根本装不下真实的答案。当我刚刚失去伴侣时，那种体验的深度和广度，让我最终写下：这个问题就像在河口放了个顶针——如此渺小的容器，却想接住汹涌奔腾、充满生机的洪流。

I think as somebody who reveres language as much as I do, how are you does not feel like an adequate container for the answers. The truth, the magnitude of the experience of having just lost my partner. And I think what I ended up writing was that the question, how are you? Feels like a thimble at the mouth of a river. That's how small it is trying to catch something so big and rushing and vibrant and not static.

它实在太过苍白无力。

And it just really falls short.

那你更喜欢被问什么问题呢？

What's the question you prefer?

可能非写作人士会觉得这个问题很奇怪。但我想问的是：能否讲个最近发生在你生活中的故事，哪怕只是轻轻擦过你当下经历的某个片段——不要求完整捕捉，只要有所触及就好。

It's quite possible that somebody who wasn't a writer would find this to be a really odd question. But I think the idea of, like, tell me a story of something that's happened in your life recently that feels like it not even captures, but grazes some part of what you're experiencing right now.

我要记下这个问题然后反问你，朋友。那我就直接问了：能否讲个你生命中轻轻擦过（我喜欢‘擦过’这个词）某些经历的故事？

I'm writing that down and to turn it right back to you, my friend. And and so I will just ask, can you tell me a story from your life that graze is some part. I love that word, graze. Yeah. Some part of what you've been through.

Leigh，我想知道在今天这个日子里，你会想起什么。

Leigh, I wonder what comes up today on this day.

‘在今天这个日子里’...知道吗？我本希望给出不同的答案，但就说说此刻吧——我刚从Hedgebrook作家驻地回来，那是华盛顿州惠德贝岛上为女性作家设立的隐居地。女作家们住在小屋里，那里倡导极致关怀，让你能专注创作，远离网络和手机，与自然生灵为伴，每天清晨自己生火取暖。

Today on this day. You know what? I wish I wish I had a slightly different answer, but I will answer from today on this day, which is that I was just at Hedgebrook Writing Residency, which is a retreat for women writers on Whidbey Island off the coast of Washington, and women in cottages. And it's about radical care, so you can just focus on your your creativity and disconnect from the Internet and cell phones and be among creatures in nature and build yourself a fire every morning. Yes.

我是说，这简直是极乐。你说的每句话都让我连连称是，还有那些关于女性与田园牧歌式关怀的话题。我边走边想，没错，这正是我向往的生活状态。好吧。

I mean, that's just bliss. So everything you're saying, I'm like, yes and yes and women and radical care in a cottage. I'm walking through the I mean, yeah. Sounds like exactly what I wanna be doing. Okay.

确实如此。

Exactly.

我们就在那里。

We're just there.

我之所以答应，除了因为那里宛如天堂，还因为我觉得在那个空间里能真正与安德莉亚心灵相通。我原以为在远离手机信号的大自然静谧中，摆脱工作干扰，我和安德莉亚会持续进行某种宇宙层面的对话。但当我身处其中时，却完全感受不到这种联系。这几乎像是对浪漫关系的全盘否定。哇。

And part of the reason that I said yes, besides it being heaven, was that I thought that in that space, I would really be able to connect to Andrea. I thought in the quiet, disconnected from cell service in nature, distracted with work, that Andrea and I would be in this ongoing cosmic conversation of sorts. And when I was there, I did not feel them at all. It felt almost like a rejection from any romantic part. Wow.

感觉就像

It felt like

像是被对方幽灵式断联了。

Like I'm being ghosted.

被一个幽灵。也许这正是我想说的。

By a ghost. Maybe That's what I was gonna say.

这个词的真正含义。哇。

The true meaning of that word. Wow.

事实确实如此，这让我非常失望，我害怕再也无法与安德莉亚建立联系。我不知道未来会怎样。但我继续在那里阅读、写作、修改手稿，诗作不断涌现，我还开始画画——尽管我根本不是画家，但我的创造力正在回归。然后我幻想安德莉亚就躲在某个角落，等待我意识到：我此行不是为了寻找他们，而是为了找回自己。

And so it was it was really disappointing for me, and I felt scared that I wouldn't connect to Andrea again. And I just didn't know what it would look like. But I continued to read there and write there and work on my manuscript and poems came and I was painting, which I'm not even a painter, but my creativity was coming back to me. And then I imagined that Andrea was there hiding in the corner somewhere and waiting for me to realize that I didn't go to find them, but I came to find myself.

我想稍微转换一下话题。我知道你们是在诗歌界相识的。但你们第一次感受到那种传说中的火花是什么时候？

I want to shift gears somewhat. I know you two met in the poetry world. But when was the first moment that you felt proverbial sparks?

是的。那是在全国诗歌大满贯比赛上。我们相识已久。当时在舞池里，安德莉亚总让我提醒大家不要在家尝试这个动作——只有凭借他们独特的酷劲魅力，加上我对这种行为的古怪接受度，这个动作才成立。所以千万别模仿。

Yeah. We were at the National Poetry Slam. We've been friends for a long time. We were on the dance floor and Andrea would want me to tell everybody not to try this move at home and that their particular level of coolness and charm and my weird receptivity toward this is the only reason it works. So don't try to do this.

你们可能会...这段免责声明有点长。说不定有人要叫人力资源部了。我不知道。安德莉亚擦了擦手——我跳舞时会出汗——然后他们顺着我的手臂抹下汗水，在这个乌烟瘴气的夜店里舔了自己的手。

You might. This is a long disclaimer. Somebody might call HR. I don't know. Andrea wiped their hand because I sweat when I dance, and Andrea wiped their hands down my arms and and licked their hands in this dirty ass nightclub.

然后

And

对。等等。对。好的。

Yes. Wait. Yes. Okay.

让我们从头说起。我想先了解一下这一刻之前的情况。你是谁？他们是谁？在你眼中他们的名声如何？

Let's back it up even. I wanna actually get a sense before this moment. Who were you? Who were they? What was the reputation to you?

我们曾是同一家出版社的作家，但安德莉亚的事业如日中天。全世界每个诗人都知道她，但她的演出却在摇滚俱乐部。她像音乐人一样巡回演出，不是在咖啡馆或书店的小型读书会，场面非常热闹。

We were writers on the same press, but Andrea's career was massive. It everyone any poet in the world knew who Andrea was, but their performances were at rock clubs. They were touring like a musician tours. It was not a, you know, a small reading in a cafe or a bookstore. It was rowdy.

剧院座无虚席。是啊。

Sold out theaters. Yeah.

没错，门票售罄，门口还挤满了人。你会看到观众们跟着安德莉亚的每句歌词对口型。那场面像是派对、教堂和避风港的混合体。我从未见过这样的景象。

Yeah. Sold out, lying around the door, you know, just people you 'd watch and people would mouth along the lyrics to all of Andrea's words. It was some mix of like a party and a church and a safe haven and it yeah. I'd never seen anything like it.

你们之间有没有感受到某种能量拉扯？还是说就像——那边是摇滚巨星安德莉亚，你们之间的能量场是怎样的？

Did you feel any kind of energetic tug between you, or was it sort of like, there's Andrea, the rock star, you know, like, was the what was the energy between you two?

在我看来安德莉亚可以和任何想约会的人交往。我们称她为同志界的詹姆斯·迪恩。某种程度上很相似

How I viewed Andrea was that they could date anybody that they wanted to date. We call them the gay James Dean. Kinda similar

某些时期的发型确实。完全同意。嗯哼。

hair at certain points. Yeah. Totally. Uh-huh.

他们本可以选择任何想在一起的人，我只是觉得这对他们来说很可行。我一生都在与身体形象问题作斗争，我根本没想到他们会选择我。结果安德莉亚偏偏喜欢曲线丰满的女人。

They could anybody that they wanted to be with, I just assumed that that would be feasible for them. I have had lifelong body image issues and struggles, and I I just I didn't think that they would choose me. And turns out Andrea loved a curvy woman.

意思是，我们

Mean, we

嗯。好的。

Yep. Okay.

那真是走运了。

That was in luck.

当时你们在舞池里度过了一个汗流浃背的夜晚。安德莉亚走近你，用手抚过你汗湿的手臂，然后舔掉了手上的汗水。你是不是

Were in and you found out during a night, a sweaty night on a dance floor. Andrea approaches, runs their hands down your sweaty arm, and then licks the sweat off their hand. Were you

你当时作何反应？

how did you react?

我当时惊呆了，但同时又大笑着继续跳舞，感觉就像大脑里的分子在重组——我整个人都懵了：等等，刚才发生了什么？

I I was in shock, but also laughing and continuing to dance and just sort of felt the molecules of my brain rearrange themselves where I'm like, wait, what just happened?

当你提到大脑在重新连接时，是否有什么地方让你觉得无法理解或想不通？比如，

Was there something that when you said your brain was rewiring, was there something that, like, wasn't connecting here and not computing for you? Like,

那种感觉？我们一群人集体走回酒店时，我在电梯里遇到了我们共同的朋友凯蒂，我特意跑进电梯就为了能和她聊会儿。我把发生的一切都告诉了她。

that sense? We went back to the we all collectively as a group walked back to the hotel. And I saw our mutual friend Katie in in the elevator, and I, like, ran into the elevator just so I could have a moment to talk to her. And I told her everything that happened.

告诉她关于流汗那件事了吗？

Told her about the sweat incident?

告诉了。本以为她会很震惊，结果她只是说‘哦，我一点也不意外’。我当时就懵了，问她什么意思。

Yes. Thinking she would be like, woah. That's what? And she was like, oh, I'm not surprised. I'm like, what are you talking about?

她说她管安德莉亚叫‘德瑞’，还说‘德瑞暗恋你好多年了’。我第一反应是‘什么？’还以为自己听错了。

She's like, she'd call Andrea Dre. She said, Dre has had a crush on you for years. And then I was like, what? I thought I was hearing her wrong.

发现安德莉亚暗恋你时，你是什么感觉？

To find out Andrea had a crush on you, what was that like?

那大概是十二年前的事了。但说实话，从那一刻起，我没有一天不是大部分时间都在想着安德莉亚。哇。真的...这件事彻底重构了我对自己的很多认知。虽然人们总说你要先学会爱自己，才能被别人爱。

I that would have been, I think, about twelve years ago. But I will say after that moment, there has not been a day in my life where I've not spent a majority of the day thinking about Andrea. Wow. It was yeah. It it really rearranged, I think, a lot of my ideas about myself, and I know they say that you have to love yourself before somebody can love you.

但是

But

我确实很喜欢这么说。

I do love to say that.

我也确实认为，安德烈亚爱我的这件事让我意识到：这个本可以随意挑选伴侣的人，却选择了我，这让我开始思考接纳真实的自己——既然安德烈亚能这样爱着真实的我。

I do also think there was something about Andrea loving me that this person who I was like, oh, you could have your pick of the litter, then kind of picking me where it opened my eyes to the idea of loving myself as is, if Andrea was loving me as is.

当你们在一起时，随着关系发展，你觉得对方是否在你身上看到了某些特质？那些别人通常看不到，或者连你自己都未曾察觉的特质？

When you were together, when you were a couple, was there something you feel like they saw on you as your relationship progressed that you weren't used to people seeing or maybe that you couldn't see yourself?

我觉得情况可能恰恰相反。安德烈亚的公众形象很容易被看透——他们就像智慧的灯塔，是那种睿智、善良、深刻、体贴的人。而我看到的安德烈亚，以及我们关系的开始，更像是两个被解放的孩子，在客厅里上演他们人生中最精彩的表演。哇。我们一起编舞。

I think that it might have been the other way. I think it was pretty easy to see in Andrea who they were public facing, which was this beacon of wisdom, which was this sage, kind, deep, thoughtful person. What I saw in Andrea and how our relationship started was like two kids unleashed to host the living room show of their lifetime. Wow. We made up dances together.

我们改写流行歌曲的歌词，把它们变成关于酷儿或女性主义的内容。我们傻乎乎的，笑到尿裤子，就是...

We wrote parodies to pop songs to make them about queerness or feminism. We were goofy, peeing our pants, laughter, just

你是字面意思吗？我感觉...

You mean that literally? I feel like

我是说好吧。我对安德莉亚很友善。安德莉亚尿裤子了。我可没有。

I mean okay. I was being nice to Andrea. Andrea peed their pants. I did not.

揭穿他们。

Call them out.

安德莉亚，你会有多次膀胱排空，尿裤子了。这是他们家族遗传。我不知道。我的天啊。

Andrea, you'd have multiple times full bladder emptying, peed their pants. It runs in their family. I don't know. Oh my god.

那个还有好吧。我就说，如果你...如果我要讲个让人真的笑尿裤子的笑话，我会觉得我是全世界最搞笑的人。真的，真的会这样。那会非常满足。

That and how okay. I'll just say, if you were if I was to tell a joke that made someone literally pee their pants, I'd be like, I'm the funniest person in the world. I mean, really, truly, I I would. It'd be so gratifying.

我确实觉得...和安德莉亚在一起时，我感觉自己是全世界最搞笑的人，让他们笑出声的感觉太有感染力了。真的，我觉得能让安德鲁笑是我这辈子做过最棒的事之一。

I did feel I did feel like the funniest I person felt like the funniest person in the world with Andrea, and I it was so contagious to make them laugh. And truly, I think making Andrew laugh is one of the best things I have ever gotten to to do in my lifetime.

你说的是...我超爱这个，我们时代最伟大的客厅表演。有很多互动。你算是在回答我的问题，但我真的很好奇，两个诗人是怎么互相追求的。你知道对普通人来说写情诗就像...天啊。多费劲啊。

You're talking about, I love that, the greatest living room show of our lifetime. There's a lot of play. And you're kind of answering my question, but I'm really genuinely curious, like, how two poets woo each other. You know, for the layperson writing a love poem, it's like, my goodness. What a lift.

但对你们来说，那不过是又一个星期二罢了。诗人之间怎么...是啊。

But for y'all, that's just another Tuesday. How do poets yeah.

你是怎么做到的？

How do you do it?

你们关系初期是什么样子的？

What was that what was the early stage of your relationship like?

天啊，谢谢你问这些问题。在回忆中重温这些很美好。Andrea第一次寄给我的礼物是一把尤克里里，上面写着'你就是音乐'。我们的生日相隔一周。

Oh my god. Thank you for asking these questions. It's nice to travel back here in my mind. The first gift Andrea ever sent me in the mail was a ukulele that said, You are the music. We spent our birthdays are a week apart.

我和他们共度的第一个生日是他们40岁生日。我花了数周时间购买、制作并包装了40份礼物，这样我就能为他们补上之前错过的每一年。

Their first birthday that I ever spent with them, they're turning 40. And I spent weeks buying, making, wrapping 40 presents so that I could give them one for every year that they missed.

如果你不介意的话，能分享其中一件礼物吗？

Can you share one of them if you don't mind?

一份塑封的奖状，我让他们的挚友作为见证人签名，我也签了名，写着'全世界最棒的脸'。

A laminated award that I had their best friend sign as, like, the witness that I also signed for the best face in the world.

天啊，你要把我感动哭了。

Oh my god. You're gonna get me.

世界上最棒的脸蛋？

Best face in the world?

是的。他们给我买了一个真正的音响，还亲手制作了混音CD或混音磁带，抱歉，是给我的。考虑到我们的年龄差，那更多是CD时代。我甚至不知道该怎么打开那些脏话。

Yeah. They got me an actual boombox where they made actual mix CDs or mix tapes, I'm sorry, for me. And considering our age difference, that was more of the CD time. I didn't know how to open up the cusses.

你就像在说，不好意思，四岁小孩。能帮我弄一下这个吗？

You're like, excuse me, four year old. Can you help me with this?

没错。他们为我在枕套上绣了诗句，一行行诗，都是手工缝制的。是啊，这样的细节太多了。

Yeah. They stitched poetry into a pillowcase for me, a line of poems, like they hand stitched. Yeah. There's a lot.

你提到的这些，让我直说吧，让我所有前任都相形见绌——问这个问题时我就隐约预料到了，但和你一起细数这些依然美妙。话说回来，你总提到年龄差，具体是多少？你和安德莉亚相差几岁？

You're talking about well, let me just say this. This is putting every single one of my boyfriends to shame, which I kind of knew would happen in asking that question, and yet it is wonderful to linger here with you. I mean, keep mentioning the age gap. Let's just put a number on that. How what was that age gap between you and Andrea?

十三岁。

Thirteen years.

十三岁啊。听起来如此梦幻浪漫，说实话，比我想象中两位诗人坠入爱河初期的互动还要美好。但当然，你们不仅是诗人，更是凡人，不可能永远只有玫瑰色的甜蜜。

Thirteen years. Okay. I mean, I wonder it sounds so dreamy and romantic and honestly, like, better than what I imagined two poets would do in the early stages of falling in love. But, of course, you are not only poets, you are humans. It couldn't have been all rosy all the time.

好的，我们马上回来。

Right. We'll be right back.

你好，我是索拉娜·派恩，现任《纽约时报》视频总监。多年来，我的团队制作了无数带您直击新闻现场的精彩视频。这些由时报专业记者制作的视频，将帮助您洞悉事件本质。

Hi. I'm Solana Pine. I'm the director of video at The New York Times. For years, my team has made videos that bring you closer to big news moments. Videos by Times journalists that have the expertise and training to help you understand what's going on.

您可能在社交媒体或浏览《纽约时报》时见过这些视频。现在我们将通过纽约时报应用中的'观看'栏目为您呈现。这是一个值得信赖的专属视频流，所有内容均可免费观看，无需订阅。

You might have seen these on social media or browsing The New York Times. Now we're bringing those videos to you in the watch tab in The New York Times app. It's a dedicated video feed where you know you can trust what you're seeing. All the videos there are free for anyone to watch. You don't have to be a subscriber.

从您喜爱的应用商店下载纽约时报应用即可开始观看。如果您更偏爱音频内容，我们还设有'聆听'栏目。

Download the New York Times app from your favorite app store to start watching. And if you're more of an audio person, there's a listen tab too.

在安德莉亚确诊之前，我们其实已濒临分手边缘。疫情让生活变得异常艰难——我们从全国巡演的精彩人生骤然陷入隔离状态，且比他人隔离得更久更严格，因为安德莉亚患有莱姆病这种自身免疫性疾病，必须格外注意健康。说实话，安德莉亚会通过饮酒自我安抚（虽不过量），而我则用食物、电视或任何能转移注意力的东西来麻木自己。

Prior to Andrea being diagnosed, we were really actually on the verge of of breaking up. The pandemic had been really hard. Our life had gone from touring all around the country and this just this big life to being very quarantined, but also we sort of kept with that longer than other people and maybe more strictly because Andrea had also had an autoimmune disease that Lyme disease that they had to, you know, be cautious with their health. And honestly, Andrea was like self soothing with drinking and not a massive amount, but that was sort of their thing. And I was numbing out with food or TV or just anything to shut it off.

那时我们形同陌路，关系糟糕透顶。当得知体内有肿块时（虽不确定是否癌症但可能性很高），安德莉亚甚至试图与我分手，她说'我觉得我们不该一起面对，我们一直处得不好'。

And we were really disconnected and not doing well at all. And when we got the news that there were masses, we didn't know if it was cancer, but it was a strong likelihood. Andrea even had tried to end it with me. Like, I don't think we should do this together. I just, we haven't been good.

我记得那晚我们几乎彻夜未眠。若在平时，我可能会说'去他的'然后睡客房。但考虑到事态严重性，我反复说了不下百遍'我绝不会离开，我们注定要共同面对这一切'。

Like, I don't want to I just, I remember we stayed up the whole night almost. And in another iteration of that conversation, I think I would have been like, screw this, I'm sleeping in the guest room or something. But because of what the stakes were, I just I must have said a 100 times, I'm not going anywhere. I'm not going anywhere where we are meant to do this together.

是什么让你如此确信？可以问问吗，那种信念从何而来？它源自何处？

What made you so sure? May I ask, like, where was that conviction? Where did it come from?

我认为即使在我们最艰难的时刻，我始终怀抱着一个关于我们的画面，感觉它已经存在于地平线上。我一直能看到那个画面，只是不知道我们如何到达那里。

I think that even through our hardest times, I always held this image of us that I felt like already existed on the horizon And always saw that picture and just didn't know how we got there.

那是什么样的画面？是真实的照片吗？就像一张实际的图像？

What was the picture? Was it an actual picture? Like an actual image?

这真的很有趣。我想，说实话，部分原因是了解安德莉亚的另一面——那个没有焦虑和恐惧的她。正因如此，我一直相信安德莉亚能达到一种状态，让内心渴望成为的人与现实中一贯表现的人完全一致。在我告诉她我不会离开后，一周内她就接受了手术并被诊断出癌症。但第二天早上，我感觉她已经达到了那种一致。

That's really interesting. I I think it was honestly in part knowing knowing this other side of Andrea that was, like, without anxiety and fear. And then because of that, I just always knew that Andrea could get to a place of total alignment between who they wanted to be in the world and who they consistently were. And after I told them I wasn't going anywhere, and it was in a week's time that they were doing surgery and being diagnosed with cancer. But the next morning, I felt like they were already in that alignment.

哇。所以基本上就是一夜之间，睡了一觉。这么说可能有点直接。但你醒来后——是另一个安德莉亚了吗？还是另一个你？

Wow. So one night, one sleep, basically. Mean, to put it that way. But and then you woke up and it was was it a different Andrea? Was it a different you?

我是说，我只是想弄明白——你注意到的是什么变化，什么转变？

I mean, I'm just trying to what was the the change, the shift that you noted?

就像我们醒来时重新认识了彼此。我们醒来时不再执着于对方过去的模样，而是带着‘这个与我共度时光的人是谁？’的全新感觉——但这比全新的感觉更好。实际上，比起初次坠入爱河，与相伴六年的伴侣再次相爱是更美妙的体验。那是最不可思议的感觉。

It was like we woke up unknowing each other. We woke up not holding onto past versions of the other, but almost like, who is this person that I get to spend this time with? And this sort of brand new feeling, but it was better than a brand new feeling. It was actually better than falling in love with somebody initially to fall in love with your partner who you've been with for six years. It was the most incredible feeling.

这发生在你们关系中的一个阶段，当时你们知道安德莉亚体内有肿块，但还不清楚这些肿块具体是什么。我是说，我觉得很不可思议的是，那天早上醒来时你们既兴奋又开心。你知道，有种新鲜的感觉，一种全新的感受。然而一周后你们却说要做手术了。

This happens at a time in your relationship where you know there are masses inside of Andrea's body, but you don't yet know, you know, what those masses are. I mean, I find it remarkable that you wake up that morning and you're excited, delighted. You know, there's there's a fresh feeling. There's a new feeling. And yet then you said there's there's a surgery a week later.

是这样吗？然后诊断结果就确认了。是的。为了明确这一点，安德莉亚当时被诊断出什么病？

Is that what it is? And then the diagnosis is confirmed. Yeah. And and to be really clear with this, what was the the diagnosis that Andrea received?

卵巢癌。如果有肿瘤学领域的人想了解专业术语的话，是高级别浆液性卵巢癌IIb期。

Ovarian cancer. If anyone's like in the oncology world looking for the technical term, it was high grade serous ovarian cancer stage two b.

对于非专业人士，你们是如何理解这个诊断的？医生是怎么向你们俩解释的？

For those not in that world, how did you understand that diagnosis? How was it explained to you two?

嗯，我有个过滤机制，凡事都往最好的方面想。而安德莉亚并不总是这样。某种程度上，这可能正是我们走到一起的原因。我了解到这是最常见的卵巢癌，对化疗反应最好。起初我非常乐观，坚信安德莉亚做完手术后，经过六个周期的化疗就能痊愈——但事实并非如此。

Well, I have filter that everything goes through, which I think is the filter of best possible light. And I think Andrea had not always had that filter. And I think some, for some ways that is probably what brought us together. I understood it to be the most common ovarian cancer, that it was the one that responded best to chemotherapies. And I was pretty hopeful in the beginning, very hopeful in the beginning that Andrea would have this surgery that they had already had and that we would go through the six cycles of chemotherapy and it would be in the past after, which is not what happened.

安德莉亚是怎么理解这个诊断的？你说你们有不同的思维方式。

How did Andrea understand the diagnosis? You say you had different filters.

说实话，安德莉亚当时几乎进入了一种觉醒状态。我不确定她是否真的在意或好奇诊断结果，但她对活着并感受当下充满欣喜。有次她甚至说'我可能很快会死'，我回应道：'安德莉亚，我不认为你真这么想，否则为什么不去蹦极呢？我们为什么不呢？'

I honestly, Andrea went into almost an awakened state at that time. And I don't know that Andrea was actually that interested or curious in what the diagnosis was, but so excited to be alive and feeling what they were feeling. And there was one moment where, you know, they would say, I might die soon. And I said, Andrea, I don't know that you really think that because, I mean, why aren't you bungee jumping? Why aren't we?

证明给我看。是啊。如果你觉得自己快死了，我们显然应该去希腊的某个岛上。

Prove it. Yeah. If you think you're gonna die, we should be on an island of Greece, obviously.

我们将会住在科罗拉多。该死。没错。

It's gonna be Colorado where we live. Damn. Yeah.

他们说完后停顿了一下，接着说：'我不在乎做任何那些事。我这辈子一直在实现愿望清单上最重要的事——就是敞开心扉生活，无忧无虑、无惧无怨地活在当下。我正过着梦寐以求的生活。'

And they said, they paused for a moment and said, I don't care to do any of that. I am doing what has always been on the top of my bucket list in this life, which is to live with an open heart and to live without worry and fear and blame and just be in this present moment. I'm doing exactly what I've always wanted in this life.

我是说，你该怎么回应这种话？这对你意味着什么？你如何消化这些？难道就只是去散个步，或者煮个通心粉奶酪？这日子怎么过？

I mean, how do you respond to that to someone? What what did what did that mean to you? How did you hold that? I mean, then you you just go on a walk or, like, make mac and cheese? Like, how do you live?

你懂我意思吗？你怎么继续生活下去？我不知道。当他们说这种话时该怎么回应？

You know what I mean? How did you continue to live to live life? I don't know. Like, how did respond when they said stuff like that?

有很多时刻我对安德莉亚充满崇敬，觉得自己能追随她散发的光芒轨迹很幸运。我自己后来也和妈妈去跳了伞。

I had a lot of moments of just feeling great reverence for Andrea. Just feeling lucky to be, like, in the path of light that they were trailing. I sky I went skydiving myself with my mom.

所以你们是在暴风雨中玩蹦极的。

So you did the bungee jumping under the storm.

而安德莉亚并不知情。

And Andrea did not know.

安德莉亚从地面观望着，并为之欢呼

Andrea watched from the ground and and cheer for

当我以医学建议的方式到来时。

me as I came medically advisable.

我不认为他们和我们有着截然不同的神经系统。而且我不认为需要跳下飞机才能获得我那种刺激感。

I I don't think that they were we had very different nervous systems. And I don't know that there's needed to jump out of a plane to get the rush that mine mine did.

你

You

知道吗，在对话早些时候，我们谈到了你们关系的初期阶段。记得那个舞池里美妙的场景吗？汗水交融，你们之间那种身体上的亲密、性方面的连接。随着这个诊断结果，你们的亲密关系是如何演变或改变的？

know, earlier in the conversation, we were speaking about the the early stages of your relationship. You know, we had this amazing scene on the dance floor with the sweat and the, you know, the the the physical connection, the sexual connection between the two of you. How did your intimacy evolve or change with this diagnosis?

有件特别有趣的事是，安德莉亚经历的那种化疗会让人掉头发、眉毛和睫毛，在外人眼里她看起来病恹恹的。无数次有人拦住我们，问能否为我们祈祷之类的。而我总是很震惊——因为安德戴着帽子，我会给她画上眉毛，我觉得她看起来很美。我震惊是因为我只看到她容光焕发，只看到她的美。

Well, one thing that was really interesting is Andrea went through the kinds of chemo where you lose your hair and lose your eyebrows and your eyelashes and to the worlds, you are looking ill. And there were so many times where somebody would stop us and like ask if they could pray for us or something. And I would feel shocked because, know, Andrew would have a hat on and I would draw some eyebrows on their face. I was like, you look good, babe. Like I I would be I I would be shocked because I was just seeing them glow and just seeing their beauty.

甚至在安德烈亚失去头发时，我记得我当时想，哦，现在我能看到更多真实的你了。所以在很多方面，我是说，虽然在他们生命最后阶段身体每况愈下时情况不同，但我们的亲密关系反而加深了，因为我们仿佛被赐予了初遇时的化学反应，同时还建立了深厚的信任。

And even when Andrea lost their hair, I remember I was like, oh, now I can see more of you. And so our yeah, in a lot of ways, I mean, this is different toward the very end of their life when their body was more sick. But in a lot of ways, our intimacy increased because we somehow felt like we were blessed with the chemicals of the beginning. But then there was, like, the deep trust there as well.

确诊后你们的性生活变得更好了吗？‘更好’这个词可能不太准确，但确诊后你们是否更享受其中了？

Did your sex get better after the diagnosis? I mean, better is a is a tough word, but were you enjoying it more after the diagnosis?

说实话，感觉...一直都很好。但确实，我会说那更像是一种体验的深度。不仅仅是性爱，而是两个终将消亡的肉体在触碰永恒时产生的深刻理解。

It felt like I mean, I'll be honest. It was always great. But I Hell, yeah. I will say it felt more like, I don't know, like a depth of of the experience. Like, it wasn't just sex, but like a a real understanding of touching into the eternity and then two very mortal bodies.

我是说，大脑在性爱、分娩和死亡时释放的化学物质是相似甚至相同的。我在想，那些时刻是否触碰到了某种能量——那种无法被摧毁的能量，或者说在那种极致时刻里，我们之间无法被夺走的联结。安德烈亚的脆弱也...我长期对自己的身体感到不安，但看着他们光头消瘦、胸口插着输液港...化疗后前五天我甚至不能亲吻他们，因为药物毒性太强，肿瘤科护士都要穿防护服才能静脉注射。我们被要求分开使用马桶，因为飞溅的尿液都可能对我不利。但他们体内流淌着这些药物...这种脆弱性，我这辈子都未曾真正向安德烈亚承认过。

And I mean, they the chemicals in your brain, right, released during sex, birth, and death are are similar or the same. And, yeah, just wonder if there was a touching into at those times, the energy that all energy, but an awareness of the energy that can't be destroyed or what was between us that wouldn't wouldn't be able to be taken in a heightened moment like that. And and also the vulnerability on Andrea's part of I'd felt vulnerable about my body for a long time, but to be, like, bald and thin and have a port coming out of your chest and, you know, some I couldn't kiss Andrea the first five days after chemo because they were noxious with medicine that the oncology nurses would wear a hazmat suit to pump directly into their veins. And we weren't supposed to share a toilet because they're, like, backsplash of their pee could be toxic to me, but they're pulsing with it. Like, there's a vulnerability there that I I never actually acknowledged with Andrea in this life.

所以我希望他们此刻正在聆听。

So I hope that they're listening.

天啊，我也是。当你们面对诊断结果、治疗和多次疗程时，有纪录片团队跟拍你们，最终制作成了《在美好光景中见我》。观看时，你表现出的沉稳令我震撼，你确实是希望的源泉。

Oh my gosh. Me too. While you and Andrea are navigating this diagnosis, the treatment, the many treatments, you were being followed by a film crew filming the documentary that would ultimately become come see me in the good light. And as I watched this film, I was struck by how steady you seemed. You were a real source of of hope.

你说自己是个乐观的人，确实是安德烈亚的坚实依靠。但我好奇，你是否曾感到动摇？是否曾觉得难以用他们需要的方式陪伴左右？

I mean, you you self described as a as an optimistic person. You were really a rock for Andrea. And I wonder, like, did did you ever feel not so rock like? Did you ever feel unsteady or unable to show up for Andrea in the way that they needed?

我想我的性格虽然最终让我确信这正是旅程中正确且必要的态度。我有时会想，这是否让安德莉亚感到孤独绝望或独自忧虑。或者说，并非她真的孤独，而是这种感觉可能源于我的处事方式——除非事情直接摆在眼前正在发生，否则我从不担忧。我几乎不会花时间去想‘如果坏事发生怎么办’，比如我们等待血液检查结果，想知道她的癌症是在恶化还是好转。那些日子里，我的思绪不会提前焦虑地预演各种‘如果是这样怎么办’的可能性。

I think I think my disposition while I ultimately believe it was exactly what was right and needed for the journey. I do wonder if sometimes it made Andrea feel lonely to despair or worry alone. Or that it not that they were alone, but that it might have felt like that because my my way is not to worry about anything unless it's directly in front of me and happening. And I don't spend much, if any time in what if this bad thing happens, say we're waiting on the blood results, you know, to find out if their cancer is growing or shrinking. In those days, my mind isn't making its worried preparations of what if it's this, what if it's this.

只是当我们打开结果时，自然会知道情况，然后据此行动。安德莉亚确诊的第一年曾有过那种顿悟，但后来逐渐消逝。之后发生的是，他们不再拥有那种顿悟与觉醒的恩典时刻，而是有了一个理想状态的标尺，总是积极试图达到或保持那种状态，当无法感受到时就会极度失望。

It's just when we open it, we'll know what it is, and then we'll do from there. And while the first year of Andrea's diagnosis was that enlightenment, that slipped some. And then what happened was after that, rather than having this moment of grace and awakening, they now had a barometer for where they wanted to be and would always actively try to get there or be there and be really disappointed when they weren't feeling that.

这真有意思。就像你们为自己树立了一个榜样，示范如何以光明、希望和爱面对这一切。当然，当无法始终达到那个标准时，你说安德莉亚会因自己不够开明乐观而沮丧。你会如何帮助她重新回到那种境界呢？

That's so interesting. It's almost like you two had set an example for yourselves at how to move through this with light and hopefulness and love. And then, of course, when you can't always reach that mark, you're saying that Andrea would get frustrated at themselves for not being this enlightened, hopeful. And how would you try to help them return to that level? Or?

是的。安德鲁——或者说安德莉亚的表达方式是：‘我只想栖息在上帝的掌心’。哇。

Yeah. Andrew is the way Andrea would say it is, I just want to be in the palm of God. Wow.

嗯。好的。听起来可行。是的。

Yeah. Okay. That sounds doable. Yeah.

我听他们说过：‘我能感觉到自己此刻不在上帝的掌心，我只想回到那里。’

I heard they'd be like, I'm not I can feel that I'm not in the palm of God right now. And I just want to return.

这很有压力。是的。压力很大

It's pressure. Yeah. It's a lot

是啊。我会尝试多种方法。有些日子我会说，你懂的，我理解我们为自己树立了这个榜样。有时候你就是需要一天时间来崩溃或放弃。或者，为什么不脱掉那些该死的靴子和牛仔裤，换上运动裤靠在我头上？

of Yeah. I would try multiple things. I think some days I would say, you know, like, I understand we've set this example for ourselves. And sometimes you just need a day to fall apart or give up. Or like, why don't you take off those damn boots and jeans and put on some sweatpants against my head?

就这样，让它，你懂的。而其他时候我会说，上车，我们去兜风。去看看安德莉亚最喜欢做的事。我们要去看些美丽的东西。我经常看着他们的视角转向回归自然。

And just like, let it, you know. And then other times I would say, get in the car, we're going on a drive. And see for Andrea's favorite thing to do. We're gonna go see something beautiful. And I would watch their perspective shift often returning to nature.

但他们有太多自己的方法到达那里，无论是听迈克尔·辛格的《解脱的灵魂》还是埃克哈特·托利的书，或是这种夏威夷祈祷文，就是不断重复：谢谢你，我爱你，对不起，请原谅我。有时他们就这样听上几个小时，他们有无数种方法让自己回到当下。

But they had so many of their own tools to to get there, whether that was listening to the untethered soul by Michael Singer or Eckhart Tolle or this Hawaiian prayer, which is just the repetition of, thank you, I love you, I'm sorry, please forgive me. Sometimes they just listened to that for hours and they had a million ways that they'd find their way back to the back to the present.

你是否觉得你有...是否觉得你有空间去感受，我不知道，愤怒或忧郁或悲伤？还是你觉得你必须为你们两人承担希望或乐观？

Did you feel like you had did you feel like you had space to be, I don't know, angry or mopey or sad? Or did you feel like you had to sort of carry the hopefulness or the optimism for for both of you?

我绝对有空间感受任何情绪。安德莉亚，这某种程度上是他们在世界上传达的重要信息。他们甚至卖印着'感受不是敌人'的T恤。他们总是鼓励每个人去感受。有时他们会担心我在压抑情绪、逃避或否认。

I I absolutely would have had space to feel anything. Andrea, just that was sort of their big message in the world. I mean, they sold t shirts that said feelings are not the enemy. They definitely encouraged always everybody's feeling. And I think sometimes they worried with me that I was perhaps pushing feelings down or avoiding or in denial.

而我至今仍不知道答案。我不一定分得清否认与活在当下的区别。

And I still don't know the answer to that. I don't know the difference necessarily between being in denial and being in the present moment.

哇。再说一遍。

Wow. Say that again.

我不太清楚否认现实与活在当下之间的区别。

I don't necessarily know the difference between being in denial or just being in the present moment. How

你是怎么分辨的？真的吗？不，我是说

do you figure that out? Really? No. I just I mean

我觉得在否认中很难找到快乐。我不认为你会通过否认来跳舞或欢笑。在我看来，否认更像是一种让人更忙碌或更分心的状态。说实话，当安德莉娅因骨转移而行走困难、痛苦不堪的那些日子，我真的非常害怕和难过。

I imagine that it would be hard to find joy in denial. I don't know that you dance through denial or you laugh through denial. Like I think denial seems like something that would be busier or more distracted than I felt. And I will say like days when, you know, with the bone metastasis, it was very hard for Andrea to walk and they were in pain. And those are days where I was really scared and I was really sad.

但在他们感觉良好的日子里，比如我们一起为Chapel Roan编舞时（虽然我最终没去成），我想那本该是...如果我和安德莉娅在抗癌期间有过争执（当然我们确实有过），那可能就是争执的根源。某种程度上，我觉得他们是担心我——如果我不提前哀悼他们，等他们去世时我会无法面对现实。如果我不在脑海中反复预演他们不在了的场景，不提前排练这个故事的情节。

But on the days when they felt good and we were like choreographing to Chapel Roan or I I I didn't go there. And I I think that that would have been if Andrea and I had any arguments during of course, we had arguments during cancer, but that would be the basis of them. That and in some ways, I think that they were worried for me that if I didn't pre grieve them, that when they died, I would be ill equipped to handle the reality. If I didn't spend a ton of time in my head preparing for what it would be like if they were no longer here. And almost like mentally running the lines of that story.

但事实并非如此。如果我整日忧心忡忡，不断想着他们可能会死、想象死亡场景，我现在会怀着更多悔恨——因为那会让我错失那么多共同生活的美好瞬间。

And that isn't what happened for me. I feel like had I worried the whole time or had I constantly ruminated about they could die, what will it look like if they do, I would have had so much more regret than I do because I would have been robbing myself of so many beautiful moments together, just truly living.

我们稍后回来。

We'll be right back.

大家好，我是《纽约时报》游戏的朱丽叶，来和玩家们聊聊我们的游戏。你玩时报游戏吗？是的，每天都玩。

Hi. I'm Juliet from New York Times Games, and I'm here talking to fans about our games. You play New York Times games. Yes. Every day.

这里有个小标签叫‘朋友’，你可以添加好友。

There's this little tab down here called friends. So you could add your friend.

这对我来说很新鲜。确实如此。有社交功能真好。天啊。你还能看到他们所有的时间。

That feels new to me. It is. It's nice to have the social aspect. Oh my god. And you have all their times.

太疯狂了是吧？你可以看看拼字游戏，

That's crazy. Right? You can look at Spelling Bee,

Wordle，连连看。

Wordle, connections.

天啊。太棒了。爱了爱了。

Oh my god. Amazing. Love that.

我得下载这个应用。

I have to get the app.

《纽约时报》游戏订阅用户可畅玩所有游戏及功能。立即登录nytimes.com/games订阅，享受特别优惠。

New York Times game subscribers get full access to all our games and features. Subscribe now at nytimes.com/games for a special offer.

我能讲个故事吗？

Can I tell one story?

天啊，你根本不需要请求许可。

Oh my goodness. You don't even have to ask permission.

安德莉亚实际上是在三天内去世的。当临终关怀护士告诉我们她将被镇静时，我以为镇静只是止痛、昏沉和无意识。我不知道镇静本质上意味着几乎无法言语、极少有意识反应。这让我心碎，感觉像被剥夺了什么。

So Andrea died really over the course of three days. When the hospice nurses told us that Andrea would be sedated, my understanding of sedation was out of pain, woozy and out of it. I did not know that sedated meant essentially without words and pretty non responsive with rare moments of consciousness. This was devastating to me. It resonated as a robbery.

我觉得如果早知道事情会这样发展，我本可以主动开启一些对话——关于正在发生的事，好好道别。你会怎么来看我？我怎么知道是你？也许安德莉亚想在生命最后三天前进行这些对话，但当时我还没意识到。等意识到时，我已经准备好谈了，可她却不能了。

I felt like had I known what was going to start happening, I would have initiated some conversations both about what was happening, a proper goodbye. How will you visit me? How will I know it's you? Conversations that maybe Andrea wanted to have before the last three days of their life, but it wasn't in front of me yet. And now that it was, I was ready to talk about it and then they couldn't.

你看，那种情景找不到形容词来描述。但就在意识到我们无法进行最后谈话的几小时后，我收到音乐人朋友克里斯·佩里卡的信息，说安德莉亚写了首歌的歌词。那是首给我的情歌，关于她的死亡。克里斯谱曲录制后，在那个时刻发给了我。

And see that's an image there aren't adjectives for. However, within a couple of hours of realizing we weren't going to have that final conversation, I got a text message from our friend, the musician Chris Perica, saying that Andrea had written the lyrics to a song. It was a love song for me about their death. And Chris had recorded it and said it to music and sent it to me in that moment.

天啊。

Oh my god.

安德莉亚也没听过这首歌。我就一直为我们俩循环播放。歌词正是我渴望我们能有的对话。开头歌词是：守住堡垒因为我要走了，水面的光会以某种方式承载我。别说再见，永远并不遥远。

Andrea hadn't heard it either. And I just kept playing it for both of us. But the lyrics were essentially the conversation that I would have wanted us to have. The first lyrics are hold down the fort because I've gotta go, light on the water will carry me somehow. Don't say goodbye, forever is not too far.

爱的彼岸近在咫尺，而你臂膀有力。这首歌很美，名叫《坚守堡垒》。副歌是这样唱的：我曾拥有一切，也曾拥有你。我曾拥有一切，也曾拥有你。

The other side's just a stone's throw from love and you've got a great arm. It's a beautiful song. It's called Hold Down the Fort. The refrain is, I had it all, I had you. I had it all, I had you.

事实如此，我觉得自己仿佛已经成了安德莉亚

And it was and so I already I think felt like Andrea

是

is

处在这个世界与那个世界之间的阈限空间里。他们已经在用神奇的方式与我沟通，给予我所需要的一切。即便你知道，他们的身体除了将最后一丝气息献给死亡外，已无法给予任何东西。

in this liminal space between this world and that. And they're already finding these magical ways to communicate with me and to give me what I need. Even as, you know, their body is unable to give anything but its last bits to death.

感谢你的分享。

Thank you for sharing that.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我是说，我我我很好奇表面上的感受是怎样的。虽然你告诉了我，但在你们共枕的床上，我是说，现在所有这些地方都再也没有他们的身影了。

I mean, I I I wonder what it's like to be ostensibly. I mean, you tell me, but in the bed that you shared, I mean, there's all these places that they they are not now.

你知道，安德莉亚是在我们的床上离世的。她去世时，我就贴着她的脸，她母亲在她身后，父亲又在她母亲身后，四位前女友在她脚边，还有几个虽未交往但关系亲密的朋友。而在她离世后第一晚独自入睡后，我刻意换到了她常睡的那侧——我无法忍受转头看见她不在的空荡。从此我就一直睡在那里。

You know, Andrea died in our bed. They died with me, like, pressed up against their face and their mom at their back and their father at her back and four of their ex girlfriends at their feet and a couple of people they didn't make out with, but were good friends. And I the night after the first night I slept in bed without them, I intentionally switched to sleeping on their side of the bed. I didn't like the idea of looking over and seeing them missing. And that's where I've stayed.

我把她的靴子放在书桌旁。每个房间可能都撒着她的骨灰。我想，就这样回到海吉溪吧。

I have their boots beside me on my desk. I have their ashes probably in each room. And I realized so back to Hedgebrook, I guess.

我们回到那个女性艺术家聚居地吧。

Back we go to the colony of artists women.

在那里最后一天时，我仍未等到她的灵魂显灵。但或许此行本就是为了寻找自我——我在一片林间空地撒了她的骨灰，那里有她曾在树丛间搭建的木桌。我知道安德莉亚会爱上这个地方：那张被松针自然散落覆盖的林中书桌，就像大自然准备的纸笔。我把她的骨灰撒在桌面，也撒在空地几棵树的根部，想象它们会滋养后来在此创作的诗人。我突然明白，或许不是要在我去的每个地方寻找安德莉亚，而是该带着她去往每个地方。

When I was there, the last day that I was there, And I still hadn't had any visitations from them. But again, maybe I was there to find myself, but I spread some of their ashes in this clearing of trees where they had built wooden desk amongst the trees. And I just knew that Andrea would love that spot, that writing desk in the woods that's got, you know, pine needles scattered all across it the way, like nature's pens and post its. And I laid Andrea's ashes on the desk and also at the roots of some of the trees in that clearing. And I thought about them almost fertilizing the poetry of the writers who would sit there after me and had the thought that maybe it's not about finding Andrea everywhere I go, but bringing them everywhere I go.

那么接下来这个问题可能不太合适——你正在认识的自己是怎样的？我本想问'没有她的你'，但你觉得这样表述准确吗？

Then maybe this is the wrong question to follow-up with. But who are you learning you are? I was gonna say without them, but you tell me if that's the right way to put that question.

是啊。能量守恒定律确实让我感到慰藉，因为安德鲁拥有无穷能量。我以前叫她劲量吉比。我们了解到癌症期间坚持锻炼能提高存活率，她就整天在蹦床上跳。

Yeah. You know, I think I'm really comforted by the idea of energy not being created or destroyed because Andrew has boundless energy. I used to call them Energizer Gibby. We'd we'd learned that exercising throughout cancer, like increased your likelihood of survivorship. Andrea is like jumping on the trampoline.

当别人都卧床不起时，她却在做抗阻训练，说'这样化疗后会舒服些，可能活得更久'。明明刚做完化疗时她看起来那么虚弱，转眼就放着贾斯汀·比伯的歌，突然从口袋里掏出哑铃。她总有无穷精力和创造力，简直像电影场景。

They're they're lifting weights like these days where anyone else would just stay in bed, but they're saying like movement resistance training, this stuff will help you feel better after chemo, could help you live longer. And literally, like, they would look so undercooked and destroyed from the chemo. And then they'd be playing Justin Bieber and, like, pulling dumbbells out of their pocket out of nowhere. I'm like, what is they had so much energy, so much creative life force. They you could see a scene in the movie.

我们不说他们在做什么，但我正用连指手套为他们的手脚冰敷，以防神经病变和手指脚趾甲脱落。他们在手套上剪了个小洞，以便在化疗时能用一根手指在手机上打诗——周围所有人（谁会不这样呢）都沉浸在自己的iPad里。他们永远不会分心，永远不会关机。而现在我的感受是，你知道，我感觉到安德莉亚的心跳在我手下停止了。

We don't say what they're doing, but I'm icing their hands and feet with mittens so that they don't get neuropathy and their fingers and toenail toenails don't fall off. And they cut a tiny hole in the mitten so that they could use one finger to type a poem on their phone during these chemo sessions where everyone else, and why wouldn't you be, is like zoning out on their iPad. Like they wouldn't check out ever. They wouldn't turn off. And so my feeling now is that, you know, and I felt Andrea's heart stop beneath my hands.

就像我当时就在那里。而我希望，那份无穷的能量如今有一部分已融入我体内。

Like I was right there. And my hope is that some of that boundless energy is now in me.

这让我想起你说过的话，你希望余生人们看到你时都能看到安德莉亚的影子。我很好奇你具体指什么。

It reminds me of something you've said, which is you hope that for the rest of your life, people will look at you and see Andrea. I wonder what you mean by that.

我不想从这个故事中抽离。我不认为存在一个独立于安德莉亚和我们的关系之外的我。这已成为我的骨髓，缝进了我的脊柱，是我的新基因图谱。

I don't want to be separated from this story. I don't feel like it's like, who am I outside of Andrea and our relationship? I feel like this is my marrow. This is stitched into my spine. This is my new genetic makeup.

当然，我会将这一切带入未来所有行动中。作为一个还算年轻的人——我37岁，安德鲁快50岁——能承载这份智慧，我深感感恩。

And I will, of course, carry this into everything that I do. And I feel I I mean, as a fairly young person, I'm 37 now, Andrew is almost 50, to carry the wisdom, but and I feel I feel a lot of gratitude for that.

有段时间我读到，你常听着安德莉亚为你朗读诗歌《来自彼岸的情书》的录音入睡。你现在还保持这个习惯吗？

You know, I read for a while that you fell asleep listening to a recording of Andrea reading a poem that they wrote for you called Love Letter from the Afterlife. Is that something that you still is that something you still do?

有一段安德莉亚给我读诗的视频。我们盘腿坐在院子里，狗狗在身边嬉戏。但最触动我的不是诗本身（虽然诗很美，我会分享），而是视频里安德莉亚给我读诗时那种近乎害羞的紧张。

There's a video recording of Andrea reading the poem to me. We're just sitting in our yards, like cross legged with our dogs frolicking around us. But there's what moves me most about the video. I mean, the poem is gorgeous and I'll share it. But what moves me most about the video is Andrea seems almost shy and nervous to read it to me.

这其中有种说不出的甜蜜。是啊，我有很多个夜晚都是看着它入睡的。

And there's just something so sweet in it. And, yeah, I I have many nights have fallen asleep watching that.

如果你现在能和我们分享这首诗，我将深感荣幸。

I would be very honored if you would share this poem with us right now.

让我找出来。好的。《来自来世的情书》：亲爱的，我大错特错。死亡与离开恰恰相反。

Let me pull it up. Okay. Love letter from the afterlife. My love, I was so wrong. Dying is the opposite of leaving.

当我离开躯体时，我并未远去。那道光芒不是通往他处的门户，而是抵达此处的通道。我比以往任何时候都更真实地存在于此。我与你同在的程度超乎想象。近得让你在寻找我时目光会越过我。

When I left my body, I did not go away. That portal of light was not a portal to elsewhere, but a portal to here. I am more here than I ever was before. I am more with you than I ever could have imagined. So close you look past me when wondering where I am.

没关系。我知道人类天生就是远视的。但现在请感受我——我正漫步在你心房的每个角落，将手掌贴在你鲜活生命的柔软内壁上。为什么没人告诉我们，死亡就是在所爱之人活着时在他们身上重生？若问我天堂的高度，我会反问：你有多高？

It's okay. I know that to be human is to be farsighted. But feel me now, walking the chambers of your heart, pressing my palms to the soft walls of your living. Why did no one tell us that to die is to be reincarnated in those we love while they are still alive? Ask me the altitude of heaven and I will answer, how tall are you?

我后兜里装着写满你未言之语的情书。夜晚我坐在织布机前欣喜若狂，将宽恕织进尘世的遗憾。整日聆听你记忆的广播。是的，我知道所有你以为黑暗到不能告诉我的秘密，却因你害怕会减少我爱意的一切而更爱你。当你哭泣时，我会引导泪水流向曾在你脸颊播种的吻之花园，让你知道它们都是多年生的花朵。

In my back pocket is a love note with every word you wish you'd said. At night, I sit ecstatic at the loom, weaving forgiveness into our worldly regrets. All day, I listen to the radio of your memories. Yes, I know every secret you thought too dark to tell me and love you more for everything you feared might make me love you less. When you cry, I guide your tears toward the garden of kisses I once planted on your cheek, so you know they are all perennials.

请原谅我无法与你同泣。终有一天你会明白。终有一天你会知道我为何要向等待降生的灵魂诵读你悲伤的诗篇——这让他们更加雀跃。既然我们已如此亲密，我别无所求。每个清晨，我都用笑容为你掀开眼帘的帷幕。

Forgive me for not being able to weep with you. One day you will understand. One day you will know why I read the poetry of your grief to those waiting to be born and they are all the more excited. There is nothing I want for now that we are so close. I open the curtain of your eyelids with my own smile every morning.

但愿你能看见，你的灵魂此刻正将痛苦化为美丽。那些根深蒂固的恐惧玩着抢椅子游戏，嘲笑着自己的虚妄。亲爱的，我要让歌声穿透你的骨骼，死亡不是离去而是永恒。我要让回响震荡在你的太阳穴走廊。

I wish you could see the beauty your spirit is right now making of your pain. Your deep seated fears playing musical chairs, laughing about how real they are not. My love, I wanna sing it through the rafters of your bones. Dying is the opposite of leaving. I wanna echo it through the corridor of your temples.

我比以往任何时候都更贴近你。明白吗？咖啡厅里当你忘记只点一人份时，那个接住你的陌生人是我召唤的。在你害怕再也无法轻松醒来的最后那天，整夜往你胸口堆满向日葵的也是我。我知道这难以置信，但我发誓这是真相。

I am more with you than I ever was before. Do you understand? It was me who beckoned the stranger who caught you in her arms when you forgot not to order for two at the coffee shop. It was me who was up all night gathering sunflowers into your chest, the last day you feared you would never again wake up feeling lighthearted. I know it's hard to believe, but I promise it's the truth.

我保证终有一天你也会说出这句话：真不敢相信我曾以为自己会失去你。

I promise one day you will say it too. I can't believe I ever thought I could lose you.

天啊。谢谢你朗读这首诗。知道吗？我多希望每次有人问候你时，你能把整首诗读给他们听，让诗句流淌进他们的身体与心灵。这真是一首绝美的诗。

Oh my god. Thank you for reading that. I you know what I wish? I wish that every time someone asked you how are you, you would just read you could read them this poem in full or like infuse it into their body and into their mind. It is such it is such a beautiful poem.

确实如此。它在录音棚里让我泪流不止，简直不敢想象这是为我而写。多么——

It really is. And, I mean, it's reduced me to a lot of tears in the studio, and I cannot imagine if this was written for me. I mean, what a

我确实认为这是为你写的。安德莉亚在创作时一定想到了你。虽然是我帮助他们捕捉到这些情感，但这首诗真正是为所有失去至亲的人发声。我想他们早已知晓。

I do think it was written for you. Like, I I do really think Andrea had in their consciousness. Yes. I am the person that allowed them to access these feelings, but I think that it was really written for anyone who's lost somebody to to be able to give voice there. I I think they knew.

那真要谢谢你，安德莉亚·吉布森。我是真心实意地说这句话。

Then thank you, Andrea Gibson. I mean, really, I mean it.

谢谢你，安德莉亚·吉布森。

Thank you, Andrea Gibson.

也谢谢你，梅根·瓦利。《现代爱情》团队包括艾米·珀尔、克里斯蒂娜·约瑟夫、戴维斯·兰德、艾丽莎·古铁雷斯、艾米丽·朗、珍·波扬特、林恩·利维、里瓦·戈德堡和莎拉·柯蒂斯。本期节目由莎拉·柯蒂斯制作，林恩·利维编辑。本集原创音乐由玛丽昂·洛萨诺、罗温·内米斯托、帕特·麦库斯克和丹·鲍威尔创作。

And thank you, Megan Valley. The Modern Love team is Amy Pearl, Christina Joseph, Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Emily Lang, Jen Poyant, Lynn Levy, Riva Goldberg, and Sarah Curtis. This episode was produced by Sarah Curtis. It was edited by Lynn Levy. Original music in this episode by Marion Lozano, Rowan Nemisto, Pat McCusker, and Dan Powell.

丹还创作了我们的主题音乐。本期节目由丹尼尔·拉米雷斯混音，录音棚技术支持由麦迪·马西洛和尼克·皮特曼提供。《现代爱情》专栏由丹尼尔·琼斯编辑，米娅·李是现代爱情项目的编辑。如果你想向《纽约时报》投稿散文或微型爱情故事，我们的节目说明中始终附有投稿指南。

Dan also composed our theme music. This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez with studio support from Maddie Masiello and Nick Pittman. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of modern love projects. If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've always got the instructions in our show notes.

如果你想听梅根在我们谈话中提到的那首歌，它叫《守住堡垒》，由克里斯·佩里卡演唱。我们也会在节目说明中附上链接。我是安娜·马丁。感谢收听。

And if you wanna hear the song that Megan was talking about during our conversation, it's called hold down the fort, and it's by Chris Perica. We'll put a link to that in our show notes as well. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.