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乔·哈德森，欢迎来到节目。
Joe Hudson, welcome to the show.
谢谢，克里斯。
Thanks, Chris.
见到你真好，老兄。
Good to see you, man.
现在和你说话感觉不一样了。
Feels different to speak to you now.
是啊。
Yeah.
我猜也是。
I bet.
感觉确实不一样了。
It feels different.
是啊。
Yeah.
观众知道我曾在你的强化静修营里和你共度了一整周。
The audience will know that I spent a long week with you at your intensive retreat.
是的。
Yeah.
所以，现在回到我自己的地盘后，回想那一周拼命想在你的世界里生存的经历，感觉确实有些不同。
So, yeah, to now sit down back in my domain after having spent a week desperately trying to survive in yours feels feels somewhat different.
是的。
Yeah.
很高兴你能来。
It was great to have you there.
那是一段非常奇怪但意义深远的经历，尤其是因为它完全清醒。
It was a very strange, very meaningful experience, especially given that it's completely sober.
你知道，现在很多人谈论 psychedelic 体验，比如去哥斯达黎加做迷幻之旅，或者服用死藤水、DMT 之类的，这非常流行。
You know, there's a lot of talk of how important it is to how popular it is at least to do the psychedelic trip down to Costa Rica or the Ayahuasca DMT thing.
对吧？
Right?
嗯。
Yeah.
如果你有合适的容器和方法，即使不添加任何其他东西，只靠早上一杯咖啡也能取得不错的效果。
You can get pretty far without having to add anything in except for a morning coffee if you've got the right container and practices.
嗯。
Yeah.
我不确定你有没有看过相关数据，但我们发现，所有参与者的负面自我对话平均减少了整整一个标准差，而神经质水平也下降了略低于一个标准差。
The I don't know if you've ever seen the data on the work, but, we change negative self talk by a standard deviation across all the participants and and all, and the neuroses drops by a little less than a standard deviation.
所以，是的，一些很棒的事情确实会发生。
So, yeah, cool stuff can happen.
哈佛。
Harvard.
是谁在做这项研究？
Who's doing the study?
有一位曾在哈佛工作的研究者。
There's this there's a researcher who worked at Harvard.
她不再做了。
She no longer does.
然后我们有个在哥伦比亚的人在做，现在又有人在对我们进行另一个研究项目。
And then we had somebody at Columbia who's doing it, and then we just now have another person doing another research project on us.
这并不让我感到意外。
So That doesn't surprise me.
来自牛津的量子物理学家是新来和我们接触的人。
Quantum physics from Oxford is the new new person who's at least talking to us about.
我们还没弄清楚我们要做什么。
We haven't figured out what we're doing yet.
哇。
Wow.
我们在一起度过一周后，有人提出一个问题：用一颗开放的心生活在现实世界中很难吗？
One of the questions that came up after we spent a week together was, is it hard to live in the real world with an open heart?
是的。
Yeah.
那是我最初想到的问题之一。
That was one of the first questions that I thought of.
很难不去这么做。
It's hard not to.
这是我的亲身经历。
This is my experience.
我不知道有什么事情是用封闭的心去做的会感觉更好的。
I I don't know anything that I don't know anything that feels better with a closed heart.
我们的大脑会有一种机制，告诉我们：如果我打开心扉，或者如果不保护自己，我就会受伤、惹上麻烦，或者被利用。
So we have this thing that our brain does that tells us that, oh, I'm gonna get hurt or I'm gonna get in trouble or I'm gonna get taken advantage of if I close my heart or if I don't close my heart if I don't protect myself.
但并没有太多证据支持这种说法。
And but there's not a tremendous amount of evidence for that.
比如，甘地并没有被利用，马丁·路德·金也没有被利用。
Like, Gandhi didn't get taken advantage of or Martin Luther King didn't get taken advantage of.
一个真正心怀开放的母亲，并不会特别容易被利用。
A really open hearted mother doesn't particularly get taken advantage of.
有些人可能会，有些人可能不会，但它们并没有真正的关联。
Some might, some might not, but they're not really correlated.
所以我的经验是，如果你封闭内心，就会感到痛苦。
And so my experience is that if you close your heart down, it hurts.
这真的很痛苦。
It's just painful.
在我们的社会中，我们经常谈论这一点，比如，如果你不原谅，就是在惩罚自己。
And we talk about it a lot in our society as, like, if you don't forgive, then you're punishing yourself.
这通常是人们表达这种方式的方式。
That would be, like, the typical way to say it.
但我的经验是，只要我的心开始封闭，就会感到痛苦。
But my experience is just any time that my heart starts closing down, it hurts.
我们为什么会这样做？
Why do we do it?
我们害怕爱。
We're scared of love.
我的意思是，你一定在《开创者》中注意到，某种程度上，那里几乎每个人都在某种无益的方式中被爱所塑造，因此现在他们害怕爱。
I mean, that's one of the things that I think you must have noticed in the I mean, Groundbreakers is that on some level, you could say almost everybody there was had been entrained in love in some way that was not useful, and so now they're scared of it.
所以，爱伴随着内疚，因此爱并不安全；或者爱伴随着窒息感，或伴随着批评，或伴随着义务。
So, like, love came with guilt, and therefore, love isn't safe or love came with getting smothered or love came with criticism or love Obligation.
义务。
Obligation.
因此，爱是可怕的，不是因为爱本身，但与此同时，我们确实渴望爱。
And therefore, love is scary, not for what it but at the same time, we definitely want love.
我们生来就渴望爱。
We're born wanting love.
比如，小孩子就会说：给我关注，给我爱。
Like, little kids are like, give me attention, give me love.
他们想要的就是这些。
That's what they want.
所以我们对爱有这种渴望，但当我们得到它时，它却伴随着某种有毒或不好的东西，于是我们就想：糟了。
And so we have this desire for it, but then when we get it, it comes with this something that's toxic or not good or and then we're, oh, shoot.
我们害怕爱。
We're scared of love.
因此，在某种程度上，这适用于一切。
And so into some degree, that's all of it.
就好像我几乎能看到所有人类在爱这件事上都这么做。
It's like I can see almost all humans kind of doing this with love.
最明显的表现就是嫉妒，你知道，比如我处于一段关系中，当我的伴侣和别人在一起时，我一方面想：我需要你，我需要你，我需要你。
Know, the most pronounced one is jealousy, you know, like if I'm in a relationship and a person with me is and then I'm jealous on one level, I'm like, want you, I want you, I want you.
但另一方面，我又想：我要批评你，让你觉得自己不对、很糟糕，然后把你推开。
And on one level, I'm like, I'm gonna like criticize you and and make you feel wrong and bad and I'm pushing you away.
这就是我看到几乎每个人在生活中对待爱的方式。
And this is what I see almost everybody's doing with love in their life.
对自己也是如此。
With themselves as well.
我的意思是，即使在爱自己时，他们也在这么做。
I mean, even in loving themselves, they're doing that.
所以我们有这种模式。
So we have that pattern.
你想过吗？带着一颗开放的心活在现实世界中很难吗？
Think, is it hard to live in the real world with an open heart?
是的。
Yeah.
这个问题突然浮现在我脑海中，因为在这个非常温和、非常理解、非常
It came to me as a question because it was pretty easy to do it within the container of this very gentle, very understanding, very
哦，等等，你听好了。
Oh, so but so, like, check it out.
你刚说它是温和且理解的。
You just said it's, like, gentle and understanding.
但就在那之前，你说的是强烈，嗯。
But right before that, you said intense Mhmm.
像硬核一样。
Like hard core.
你的意思是，你并不是说每个人都会说‘是的’。
Like, it you're you're the way you said it wasn't like everyone wasn't gonna be like, yeah.
我想去试试。
I wanna go do that.
听起来很有趣。
That sounds like fun.
根本不是那样。
It was like, no.
那玩意儿太刺激了。
That shit's intense.
嗯。
Mhmm.
那你怎么把这两者结合起来呢？
So how do you how do you put those two things together?
我认为，完全被看见的令人畏惧之处，在于它让人感到陌生。
Well, the dauntingness, I think, of fully being seen is to do with it being alien.
是的。
Yeah.
这与它令人陌生有关。
It's to do with it being unfamiliar.
是的。
Yeah.
这与一种你并不习惯的透明度和开放性有关。
It's to do with a level of transparency and openness that isn't you're not used to.
而且这就像，举个不太恰当的例子，一只被虐待的小狗，这只小狗已经学会每当有人举起手时，就应该蜷缩发抖，因为它以为自己会被打。
And it's it must be like being a for want of a better example, like a mistreated puppy or something, and this puppy has been taught that every time somebody raises a hand at it, it should cower awake because it's gonna get hit.
是的。
Yeah.
但这一次，手举起来了，却轻轻拍了拍它的头，它需要慢慢学会，越来越不蜷缩，最终学会去爱那只朝它伸过来的手。
But this time, the hand gets raised and it gets a pat on the head, and it needs to learn over time, it cowers less and less and less, and then it actually learns to love the hand that comes down toward it.
是的。
Yes.
但那正是它的本质。
But That's exactly what it is.
这太棒了。
That's so cool.
去依赖化。
Depattening.
是的。
Yeah.
那个，是的。
That Yeah.
回应需要时间。
Response takes time.
所以这就是令人畏惧的一面，那令人畏惧且强烈的一面。
So that's the daunting side, the daunting and intense side.
是的。
Yeah.
我之所以说现实世界是因为我们第一天出来时发生了一个故事。
The reason I said the real world was there was a story the first day that we came out.
我和另一个家伙去做了个按摩。
Me and one of the other guys went for a massage.
她说身体护理会是个非常好的主意。
She said bodywork would be a really good idea.
在索诺马县一个宁静村庄里的泰国按摩店，那个美丽、平和、极其安静的等候区太过强烈，我们不得不离开去外面。
This beautiful, peaceful, very calm reception waiting area of the Thai massage parlor in a sleepy village in Sonoma County was too intense that we had to leave and go outside.
比如，那里有个小USB驱动的瀑布，背景里还播放着叮叮咚咚的音乐。
Like, this is and, you know, there's, like, a little USB plugged in waterfall and, like, plink plunk music playing in the background.
我们简直要受不了了，得去院子里站一会儿，因为我觉得我完全不知道这是什么情况，你管这叫什么来着？
Like, we we're gonna we're gonna go stand in the courtyard because we're, like, I kind of I don't know what the fuck's what did you call it?
不是精神不适。
Not spirit sick.
不是戒断反应。
Not dope sick.
像是宿醉什么的？
Like, something hangover?
精神宿醉？
Spirit hangover?
哦，脆弱感宿醉？
Oh, vulnerability hangover?
也许吧。
Maybe.
我经常用这个词。
I use that word a lot.
我觉得当时还有一种别的不适感。
I feel it was something else sick as well.
总之，我们走到了外面。
Anyway, we go outside.
这让我意识到，有一种难度是在一个安全的环境中，学习去相信那只手会来轻拍你，而不是打你。
What it made me realize is that there's one level of difficulty, which is within a safe container, learning that the hand is gonna come and pat you, not not beat you.
是的。
Yeah.
下一个就是走进一个充满手的世界。
The next one is now going out into a world filled with hands.
是的。
Yes.
这是两种不同的技能。
And those are two different skills.
或者这是同样的技能，但是一种非常不同的技能组合。
Or or it's the the same skill, but a very different kind of skill set.
这说得通吗？
Does this make sense?
我完全明白。
That totally makes sense to me.
是的。
Yeah.
深入研究一下。
Dig into that.
嗯。
Yeah.
那里有太多内容了。
So there's so much there.
所以，如果我观察自己生活中的一种模式，我会以三种方式维持这种模式。
So if I look at, like, a pattern that I'm holding in my life, I have three ways that I hold that pattern in my life.
其中一种方式是我吸引它。
One of the ways is that I attract it.
比如说，我有一种总被严厉批评的模式。
So let's say I I have a pattern of feeling highly criticized.
我吸引它的其中一种方式是，我会被具有批判性的人吸引，比如生活中需要批判性的女性或批判性的上司，我会注意到：哇，我所有的女朋友都一直批评我，就像我妈妈一样，或者类似的情况——但我就是被这种模式吸引。
One of the ways that I'm going to attract it is I'm going to be attracted to and want critical women in my life or critical bosses in my life or so I'm I'm gonna be I'm just gonna notice, wow, all my girlfriends criticize me all the time, just like my mom did or some version of, but I'm attracted to it.
另一种方式是我操纵别人去这么做。
One way is that I manipulate people into doing it.
对吧？
Right?
所以，只要有人没有批评我，我就会刻意去引出批评，或者做些我知道会招来批评的事，又或者在某些事上表现得过分依赖，好让他们疏远我并批评我。
So some way in which somebody's not criticizing me, I am going to, like, fish for the criticism, or I'm gonna do something that I know is gonna make them criticize me, or I'm going to be a little needy about something that's gonna make them push me away and and criticize it.
你知道的？
You know?
而最后一种方式是，即使根本没有被批评，我也会认定别人在批评我。
And then the last one is I'm gonna prove somebody's criticizing me even when I'm not being criticized.
对吧？
Right?
所以你可能会说，嘿。
So you might say, oh, hey.
你停车没停直，是因为你没注意，但对我来说，这意味着我停得一塌糊涂，你批评我了。
You're not parked straight because you don't but for me, that means I parked all fucked up and you criticized me.
我从来就不是个好司机。
I've never been a good parker.
没错。
Exactly.
我会从那里面赋予意义。
Like I'm gonna make meaning out of that.
我称之为投射。
I call that mapping.
所以你是在操纵别人去这么做，你是在吸引它，你也在证明它，因为你只关注那些符合的情况，而不去看那些不符合的情况。
So you're manipulating people to do it, you're attracting it and you are proving it because you're looking at the cases where it's true, you're not looking at the cases that aren't true.
于是我们走进这个世界，当你和我们一起度过一周后，这些模式突然就不灵了。
And so we go out into the world and so you go into for a week long with us and all of a sudden the patterns don't work anymore.
然后你回到现实世界，但你已经习惯了在世界上做某件特定的事——那就是投射这种模式。
And then you go out into the world and but you're used to doing a particular thing in the world, which is mapping this pattern.
所以突然间你会想：等等，我该怎么与这个世界互动？
And so all of a sudden you're like, wait, how do I how do I interact with the world?
是啊。
Yeah.
所以我们见过一些人出来后，就像你说的，我很难坐在这家按摩店里。
And so we've had people come out, like you said, like, I have a hard time sitting in this massage parlor.
我们有人出来后，甚至从超市给我们打电话说，我不知道该
We've had people come out and literally call us from a grocery store and say, I don't I don't know what to
买什么了。
buy anymore.
全食超市是人们遇到困难的先锋。
Whole Foods was the tip of the spear of difficulty for people.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
所以这就像是，哦，我不再处于我的模式中了，那我该怎么继续行动呢？
And so so it's just like, oh, I'm not in my pattern, so how do I operate anymore?
这有点像摇动电子画板，我觉得。
It's a little bit like shaking the Etch A Sketch, I think.
是的。
Yeah.
而且这更像是空白一片。
And it's sort of it's it's more blank.
另一件事是
One of the other things
我想我注意到了，我稍微想想你的听众，我觉得他们可能完全不知道我们在说什么，因为很少有人有过这样的经历：昨天我还觉得世界是某种样子，一周后却发现世界变得完全不同了。
I think I noticed it, like, I'm thinking about your audience for a minute, and I'm thinking, like, they might have no idea what we're talking about because there's no there's not a lot of experience of, oh, I I saw the world one way, and a week later, I see the world a different way.
你得假设，要理解我们正在讨论的内容，就必须意识到，突然之间，我以为自己需要被保护，但后来我发现，如果不被保护，生活反而会更好。
It's like, you have to assume that to understand the conversation that we're having, that all of a sudden, I thought that I had to be protected, but I realized that life is a lot better if I'm not protected.
现在我得学会在现实世界中如何做到这一点。
Now I'm have to learn how to do that in the real world.
就是这样。
That's it.
就是这样。
That's it.
就是这样。
That's it.
就在这里。
Right there.
而且，没错，当你听到人们谈论宗教体验、转变性体验、濒死体验，或者任何他们所经历的事情时，这真的很有趣。
And, yeah, I I it's so funny when you hear people talk about a religious experience or a transformational experience or a near death experience or, you know, whatever it is that they've done.
但从外部来看，因为你没有那种参照框架，所以会感到困惑。
And from the outside, because you don't have that frame of reference, you know, it's confusing.
很容易去嘲笑。
It's easy to mock.
他心想：这人到底在说什么？
He's like, what the fuck is this person talking about?
我没有任何框架或背景之类的。
I have no frame or context or whatever.
我内心有一部分，因为身在其中，所以把这些当成了理所当然。
There's a bit of me that because I'm inside of that, I'm taking for granted.
我觉得我听起来可能有点疯。
I'm like, I might just sound so mental.
但这在世界上其实算是比较温和的了，我觉得，比如我见过一些事情，还有那些事情之类的。
And this is, you know, relatively mild, I think, in the world of, like, I saw a thing and this thing and whatever.
我意识到，我不必再像以前那样僵硬、尖锐了，我内心一直存在的敏感，其实不需要隐藏，反而可能让我的世界和他人的世界变得更好。
It's like, I realized that I didn't need to be as stiff and spiky as I used to, and that the sensitivity that is always inside of me is something that I don't need to necessarily hide and actually might make my world and other people's worlds a better place.
而我一直以来想要的——让人喜欢我——反而可能会更多地发生。
And the very thing I wanted, which was for people to like me, might occur more.
当我更多地展现真实的自己时，是的。
The more that I show that Yeah.
而不是更少。
Than the less.
所以我想给你看看这个。
So I wanted to show you this.
我全身都起鸡皮疙瘩了，因为我想，这就是我热爱我的工作的原因——能听到这样的话。
So I just I like total tingles in my whole body because I'm like, that that's that's why I love my work is to hear that exact thing.
谢谢分享这些。
So thanks for sharing that.
好的。
Okay.
我几周前在纽约录了一期节目。
So I'm I have this episode that I recorded in New York a couple of weeks ago.
嗯。
Yeah.
叫约翰·贝利翁。
Called John Bellion.
他是我们这个时代最传奇的制作人之一。
He's one of the most legendary producers of our era.
他制作的歌曲流媒体播放量达数十亿。
He's done billions of streams.
贾斯汀·比伯、艾德·希兰。
Justin Bieber, Ed Sheeran.
他本人也是一位独唱艺人。
He's also a solo artist himself.
好的。
Okay.
他发行了一张名为《父亲形象》的专辑。
He released an album called father figure.
这张专辑讲述的是他成为父亲的经历。
It's about him becoming a dad.
哦，哇。
Oh, wow.
专辑探讨了他对父亲的反思，他的父亲是一位非常了不起的父亲，几乎像一个榜样。
It's about his reflections on his relationship with his dad, who was a super father, this sort of very strange, almost role model.
你知道，人们常说，我有一个非常成功的父亲，我必须像他一样有力量。
You know, like, people talk about I have a super successful father, and I need to be as powerful as him.
是的。
Yeah.
这不一样。
This was different.
这是我有一个非常棒的父亲，我必须努力成为像他那样敏锐、支持性强，或者说，另一种形式的令人敬畏的人。
This was I had a really amazing dad, and I have to live up to being, like, as attuned and supportive and this sort of other type of intimidation, I suppose.
哦，天哪。
Oh, wow.
今天早上我在洗澡。
And I was in the shower this morning.
我昨天在车里听了这首歌，但没听歌词。
I played this song in the car yesterday, but I didn't listen to the lyrics.
这首歌在我为这期节目做准备时从我耳边溜过去了。
And it's a song that just passed me by when I was doing my prep for the episode.
是的。
Yeah.
我知道我想谈谈以开放的心态生活。
And I knew I wanted to talk about living with an open heart.
嗯。
Yeah.
在这首歌里，今天早上我在淋浴时。
And in this song so I'm in the shower this morning.
每次听这首歌我都会哭，所以看看现在会不会再发生。
I cried at this I cried at this song every single time I've heard it, so we'll see if it happens again now.
好的。
Okay.
但我希望你听一下，我打算把歌词放出来，然后播放这首歌。
But I wanted you to I'm gonna just spin the lyrics around, and we'll play the song.
这可能会让我们在YouTube上被封，但我根本不在乎，因为我觉得这件事足够重要，值得去做。
It's also gonna get us popped on YouTube, but I don't give a fuck because it's sufficiently important that I think it it matters.
所以，你对这个有什么看法？
So Give me your thoughts on that.
嗯，
Well,
嗯。
yeah.
我的想法是，不知怎的，心碎是糟糕的。
My thoughts are that somehow or another, the the heartbreak is bad.
就像这首歌里假设的那样，心碎似乎很糟糕，但心碎其实是我想期待的事情。
Like, that that's the assumption in the song that, like, somehow the heartbreak is bad, but, like, heartbreak is something I look forward to.
这是一个大胆的说法。
It's a bold claim.
直到你意识到，每次心碎后，你爱的能力都会增强。
It is until you realize that every time your heart breaks open, it increases your capacity to love.
难道没有人因为心碎得太严重而封闭自己吗？
Do people not get their hearts broken so badly that they close off?
那不就是创伤吗？
Is that not what trauma is?
人们确实会因为心碎得太严重而——是的。
People get their hearts broken so badly that they yes.
这种情况确实会发生，但我认为这更多是因为他们在逃避痛苦，而不是因为心碎了。
That happens, but I think that's more because they're avoiding the pain, not because their heart's broken.
就像，我们的本性就是这样。
Like, we're we're wired.
关于这一点，有一些相当不错的研究。
There's, like, some pretty good studies about this.
比如，我们的天性就是通过直面痛苦来寻找觉醒——姑且这么称呼吧——或开悟、或内心的平静。
Like, we're we're wired to find awakening, for lack of a better word, or enlightenment or peace through going into the pain.
所以，如果你看看我们在为期一周的静修中所做的事情，我们一直在深入那些我们认为害怕的东西，也就是痛苦，那些我们一直逃避的事物。
So if you look at what we did through ground you know, in the week long, we're constantly going into the thing that we think that we're scared of, that is the pain, the thing that we've been avoiding.
你越深入其中，感觉就越好。
And the more you go into it, the better you feel.
你越开放，背负的负担就越轻，担忧就越少，焦虑就越少，愤怒也越少。
The the the more open you are, the the less weight you're carrying around with you, the less worry you have, the less anxiety, the less anger.
这正是我们的天性所在。
That's what we're wired for.
如果你看看那些直面抑郁而非逃避的人的研究，他们再次陷入抑郁的可能性要低得多。
And and if you look at the studies on people who go into their depression instead of avoiding it and and and make through, they're far less likely to ever get depressed again.
所以我们天生就是如此设计的。
And so we're just we're designed for that.
这就是人类运作的方式。
Like, that's how we that's how human beings operate.
如果你直面痛苦，那就如同锻炼一样。
We get if you go into the pain, it's the same as if you're working out.
对我来说，问题在于：为什么要锻炼？
Like, like, to me, the question is, like, Why work out?
为什么要锻炼？
Why work out?
为什么要锻炼呢？
Why work out at all?
锻炼的时候会疼。
It hurts when I work out.
为什么要锻炼呢？
Why work out at all?
当我看到那件事时，我听到的就是这个。
That's what I'm hearing when I see that thing.
这毫无道理。
It makes no sense.
一旦你意识到，当痛苦被接纳和爱时，它才是通往自由最直接的路径。
Once you realize that pain is the most direct path to your freedom when it's accepted and loved.
当痛苦被回避时，那就是绝对的地狱。
When it's avoided, it's absolute hell.
当痛苦被抗拒时，那就是绝对的地狱。
When it's resisted, it's absolute hell.
所以我懂。
So I get it.
我明白为什么人们会说：我不想感受那种痛苦。
Like, I get why people are like, I don't wanna feel that.
然后他们就能避开它。
And then they can avoid it.
而它只是藏在幕后，把你撕得粉碎。
And then it just sits in the background and rips you apart.
所以这就是我对它的看法。
So that that's how I think about it.
顺便说一句，对那个男人来说，育儿也是如此。
And it's a by the way, for that that man, it's the same thing for parenting.
对我来说，育儿真正酷的地方在于，它就像一次深层按摩。
Like, the the thing about parenting that's really cool for me is it's a deep tissue massage.
育儿就像一次深层按摩。
Parenting is like a deep tissue massage.
如果你抗拒，你就完了。
If you resist, you're fucked.
它让你明白，你无法掌控一切。
It teaches you, you do not have control.
你以为的自己，并不是真正的你。
The thing that you think you are is not what you are.
你的自我认同将会被粉碎。
Your your sense of identity is gonna be crushed.
这就是为人父母的幸运之处。
That's like, that's the good news about parenting.
这就是关键所在。
That's that's the thing.
这是我无比感激的事情。
That's the thing I'm so incredibly grateful for.
现在我的孩子都十六岁和二十岁了，我只是想，天啊，我真的被碾碎了。
As my kids now are 16 and 20, I'm just like, oh, man, I I got I got crushed.
这就是令人惊叹的地方。
Like, that's the amazing thing.
我曾经以为自己是的一切，其实只是痛苦的根源。
All all that stuff that I thought I was, that was that was actually just this cause of pain.
长期的痛苦被彻底摧毁，让我得以发现自己真正的本质——那个无法被摧毁的东西。
Long term pain just got annihilated so that I could find out what I truly am, the thing that couldn't be annihilated.
在我们继续之前，你可能已经听过像博士这样的专家谈论过。
Before we continue, you have probably heard experts like Doctor.
朗达·帕特里克谈论过欧米伽-3脂肪酸的好处。
Rhonda Patrick talk about the benefits of omega-3s.
它们支持大脑功能。
They support brain function.
它们能减少炎症。
They reduce inflammation.
它们改善心脏健康，并有数百项研究支持，而且天然摄入足够的omega-3脂肪酸确实很困难。
They improve heart health and are backed by hundreds of studies, and it's really hard to get enough omega threes naturally.
有了Momentous，你就知道自己获得的是市场上最高品质的omega-3脂肪酸。
With Momentous, you know you are getting the highest quality omega threes on the market.
它们通过了NSF运动认证，并经过重金属和纯度测试。
They're NSF certified for sport, and they're tested for heavy metals and purity.
在欧米伽-3方面，这一点非常重要。
This is a big deal when it comes to omega threes.
你绝对不想要被污染的欧米伽-3，这就是我与Momentous合作的原因。
You do not want contaminated omegas, which is why I partnered with Momentous.
在严格的第三方检测方面，它们无与伦比。
They are unparalleled when it comes to rigorous third party testing.
标签上写的成分，就是产品里实际含有的，绝无其他添加。
What you read on the label is what's in the product and absolutely nothing else.
最重要的是，它们提供30天无条件退款保证。
Best of all, there's a thirty day money back guarantee.
所以你可以购买并试用29天。
So you can buy it and try it for twenty nine days.
如果你不喜欢，他们会全额退款，并且支持国际配送。
And if you don't love it, they will give you your money back, and they ship internationally.
现在，通过点击下方描述中的链接或访问 livemomentous.com/modernwisdom，并在结账时使用代码 modern wisdom，你可以享受最高达35%的折扣以及30天退款保证。
Right now, you can get up to 35% off and that thirty day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to livemomentous.com/modernwisdom and using the code modern wisdom at checkout.
那就是 livemomentous.com/modernwisdom，结账时使用 modernwisdom。
That's livemomentous.com/modernwisdomandmodernwisdom at checkout.
“抵抗”这个词让我想到，痛苦其实源于对它的抵抗和逃避。
The word resistance sort of coming up for me, like, that the pain is in the resistance of that, the fleeing of it.
你说过，有人是走向抑郁，而不是逃离它。
You said somebody that goes into their depression as opposed to away from it.
是的。
Yes.
你能谈谈这两种方式的区别吗？一种是面对抑郁，另一种是逃避或抗拒抑郁？
Can you talk about the distinction between the two approaches that they're going into versus they're going away from or the resisting versus the
嗯。
Yeah.
当我陷入抑郁时，我想那大概是在35岁左右。
So, like, when when I, like, I hit my depression, I think it was, like, in around 35 or something like that.
我对抑郁的理解是，在理智层面上，它就是极端的负面自我对话。
And the way I think about depression is on the intellectual level, it's just extreme negative self talk.
在情感层面，通常是压抑愤怒和悲伤，其中很多是愤怒。
And on an emotional level, it's repression of anger and sadness, typically, a lot of it anger.
然后，人与人之间的连接感会缺失，你感受不到那种深层次的联结。
And then, there's a lack of connection that's happening in, like, with interpersonal connection that happens, like, you don't feel that depth of connection that occurs.
在神经系统层面，你一直处于被攻击的状态。
And on a nervous system level, you're just constantly under attack.
所以最终，你的肾上腺会崩溃，而这种攻击来自内部。
And so eventually your adrenal glands give up and the attack is coming from within.
因此，当这种情况持续很长时间时，这就是我所理解的抑郁。
So when that happens for a prolonged period of time, that's the way I see depression.
于是你就陷入了这种状态。
So then you're there.
当你处于这种状态时，会出现一些症状，比如：这种状况永远不会好转。
And when you're there, you have some symptoms and the symptoms are, this is never going to go away.
我太糟糕了。
I'm horrible.
就是充满了末日和悲观的情绪，为什么还要努力，生命毫无意义。
Like, there's just all this doom and gloom, and why even try, and life has no meaning.
所有这些都属于抑郁的症状。
And all that's the symptoms of the depression.
所以有些人会想，我该怎么逃避自己？
And so what some people do is they're like, how do I avoid myself?
而另一种方式是问，到底这里真正发生了什么？
And the other way to do it is to say, well, what's actually really going on here?
我究竟是谁？
Who am I really?
到底是什么让我真正感到抑郁？
What's what's what I'm what what really makes me depressed?
那些想法到底是什么？
What's really like, what what are those thoughts really?
或者它们是真的吗？
Or do they are they true?
它们从哪里来？
Where do they come from?
它们听起来像什么？
What do they sound like?
这是一种深刻的探索，一种好奇心。
It's like a deep wondering, a curiosity.
因此，在某种程度上，抑郁源于一个我最近听到的很棒的说法：我们能给孩子最好的礼物，就是让他们感到安全，让他们觉得做自己是安全的。
And so to some degree, that depression is there's this great saying that I've heard recently, which is, the best gift we can give to our kids is making them safe to be making them feel like they're safe to be themselves.
抑郁就是你曾经无法做自己的那些地方，而你现在正在评判它们。
The depression is all the places you weren't safe to be yourself that you are currently judging.
那么，深入并理解这些事物意味着什么？
So what is it to lean in and understand those things?
那些你从未有机会表达、从未有机会探索、从未有机会深入的方面——那些不被允许存在的情绪和想法，然后去看看以这种方式重新养育自己会是什么感觉。
Those things that you never got to express, that you never got to explore, that you never got to go into, that wasn't safe to be, those emotions, those thoughts, and then see what it's like to actually reparent yourself in that way.
这就是我所说的深入其中的意思。
That's what's going that's what I mean by going into it.
你会对那些认为‘好吧’的人说什么呢？
Would you say to somebody who thinks, okay.
我相信你。
I believe you.
我确信这就是应该深入的方向。
I I am convinced that this is the route to go into.
我受够了抛弃自己。
I'm sick of abandoning myself.
是的。
Yeah.
但我很害怕。
But I'm scared.
是的。
Yeah.
这种恐惧，我认为正是我们之前所面对的大部分内容，没错。
That fear, which I think is much of what we were dealing with Yeah.
在我们共度的这一周里，你害怕做这件事，但你会发现，当你跨过它之后，其实没什么好怕的。
In the week that we spent together, which is you're scared of doing this thing, and you will find out that if you do it on the other side of it is nothing to fear.
没什么。
Nothing.
没什么。
Nothing.
也许是幸福。
Maybe bliss.
嗯。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
你知道的，连接。
You know, connection.
也许是惊奇。
Maybe wonder.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
或者也许实际上就是，哦，那里什么都没有。
Or maybe actually just, oh, there was nothing there.
嗯。
Yeah.
但即使现在，经历了那一周高强度的、每天十二小时的相处，da da da da，那个教训并没有永久地刻进我的脑海里。
But even now, having had the week intense, twelve hours a day, da da da da, like, it's not as if that lesson has been permanently locked into my brain
嗯。
Yeah.
那种恐惧每次都会再次出现。
That fear is continuing every single time to come up.
我心想：操。
I'm like, fuck.
我要播放这首歌，它会让我泪流满面。
I'm gonna play this song, it's gonna make me tear up.
然后，网上的人会怎么说？
And then, what are people gonna say on the Internet?
我会看起来很傻，然后就会 blah blah。
I'm gonna look silly, and it's gonna be blah blah.
对，没错。
And, Right.
但你正在做这件事。
But you're doing it.
那种恐惧。
That fear.
你会对一个正被这种恐惧吓得动弹不得的人说什么呢？
What would you say to somebody who is currently paralyzed by by that fear of
我会说，当然，你害怕是正常的。
I say, of course, you're scared.
没关系。
It's okay.
我就在这里陪着你。
I'm right here with you.
那些以这种方式抑郁的人，总是被人告诉他们现在的样子是不对的。
The thing about somebody who's depressed in that way is they're constantly being told that they're not okay the way they are.
你知道，朋友们会来找他们，说你应该做这个、做那个，你应该去、现在就去。你可以听我说，然后骂一句：该死的。
You know, their friends are coming to them and saying, you should do this and this and this, and you should you should go and now now you could listen to what I'm saying and say, goddamn it.
我为什么就不能停止逃避自己呢？
Why don't I just stop avoiding myself?
我他妈就是不喜欢这样，但没人真正对你说：你这样就很好。
I'm fucking not like and but what's not happening is no one's just saying you're cool the way you are.
我懂你。
I got you.
就是这样。
Like, this is it.
我不需要你变得不一样。
I don't need you to be different.
有个特别棒的故事，我觉得我在静修时讲过，但我记不清了。
There's a a really cool story, and I think I shared it at the retreat, but I can't I can't remember.
但有一位贵格会教徒，他有着强烈的社区感，后来陷入了抑郁，社区里的每个人都到他家来，告诉他该怎么做才能走出抑郁。
But there's this there's this Quaker guy who was had this really strong sense of community, went into a depression, and everybody came over to his house because he had this community, and they would just tell him what he should do to get out of the depression.
但这些都没用，因为他表示，他们只是在认同他内心的声音——认为自己有问题。
And none of it helped because he said they were just agreeing with the voice in my head that that there's something wrong with me.
但有一个人每周二中午都会来给他洗脚，只是在表达一种态度：你就是你，我会对抗你内心的声音。
But one guy came in every Tuesday at noon and washed his feet, and he was just giving this expression of, like, you're you I I will I will go against the voice in your head.
我会对抗你对自己的看法，我会让你知道，你本就值得被爱，无需改变。
I will go against what you think, and I will show you that you're worthy just as you are.
这就是旅程。
And that's that's the that's the journey.
这段旅程是从‘我必须做点什么才能变得有价值、值得被爱’，转变为‘我本就值得有价值、值得被爱’。
The journey is going from, I have to do something to be worthy and lovable to, am worthy and lovable.
当这段旅程发生时，奇怪的是，你曾经认为自己不值得被爱的所有理由，都会在你相信自己值得时发生变化。
And when that journey happens, the weird part is, is that everything that you tell yourself that you aren't worthy and lovable for changes when you think you're worthy and lovable.
这才是最奇怪的部分，或者说至少95%的情况如此。
That's the weird part, or at least 95% of it does.
嗯。
Mhmm.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你知道吗？
You know?
因为你做的一切让你觉得自己不值得，是因为你在试图逃避那一刻内心的感受。
Because you're doing all that stuff that makes you unworthy because you are trying to avoid that feeling in yourself in that moment.
有意思。
Interesting.
你记得吗？我们做的第一个节目就是关于如何看透矩阵，看看你不想发生在自己生活中的事情，意识到你所有的模式都在制造这些事情的发生。
You had that I think the first ever episode we did, it was, like, how to see the matrix, look at the things that you don't wanna happen in your life, realize that all of your patterns are creating that exact thing to occur.
是的。
Yes.
你害怕的事情，其实就是你正在显现的，基本上，或者说是实实在在地制造出来的。
The thing that you're afraid of is the thing that you're manifesting, basically, or or literally making happen.
是的。
Yes.
而且越来越多地，当我观察任何人，任何真正的人，尤其是那些在某方面非常熟练、专业、非凡或充满干劲的人时。
And increasingly, when I look at anybody, any literally anybody, especially people that are proficient or specialized in a particular way or extraordinary or hard charging in one particular way.
嗯。
Yeah.
而他们所表现出来的，几乎总是他们害怕自己不具备的反面。
And what they are is almost always the inversion of what they fear they're not.
比如，看看这个人多么美丽。
So, like, look at how beautiful this person is.
他们内心却觉得自己很丑陋。
They feel so ugly on the inside.
对吧。
Right.
看看这个人多么成功。
Look at how successful this person is.
他们觉得自己是个失败者。
They feel like such a failure.
看看这个人多么有名、多么受推崇，却如此害怕被抛弃。
Look at how well known and well renowned this person is, so terrified of being abandoned.
是的。
Yeah.
看看这个人多么能干。
Look at how competent this person is.
他们觉得自己毫无用处。
They feel useless.
也就是说，你所表现出来的样子，不是对每个人都是这样，但对很多人来说确实如此。
Like, know, it it is just what you are, not for everybody, but for a lot of people.
对。
Right.
你所展现的一切，其实都是为了弥补内心感受到的缺失而形成的巨大补偿机制。
What you are is this huge, big compensatory mechanism for the lack that you feel on the inside.
这个人真的很聪明，是的。
This person's really clever Yeah.
或者是因为他们觉得自己很蠢。
Or it's because they feel stupid.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
而且，这似乎是几乎必要的一步，也许不必到那种程度，但几乎是必要的一步。
And, apparently, almost a necessary step, maybe not to that degree, but almost a necessary step.
对吧？
Right?
在某种程度上，心灵一开始会想：只要我做到了这一点，就会好了——只要我赚够了钱，只要我足够有权力，只要足够多的人爱我，只要我足够出名，一旦我达到了这些，却发现根本没有什么实质的东西。
On some level, the mind starts off with, once you do this, it'll be, once I make enough money, once I'm powerful enough, once enough people love me, once I'm famous enough, once I'm and then you get there, and there's no there there.
因此，对很多人来说，这一步是必要的，只有这样他们才能真正开始做真正的工作。
And so for a lot of people, that step is necessary just so that they can actually do the real work.
这就是所谓不可教授的教训。
This was this idea of unteachable lessons.
我之前跟你说过这个。
I mentioned it to you before.
我知道。
I know.
对。
Yeah.
名声无法修复你的自我价值。
Fame on fix your self worth.
金钱不会让你快乐。
Money won't make you happy.
你并不爱那个美女。
You don't love that hot girl.
她只是长得好看又难以追到。
She's just good looking and difficult to get.
你应该多看看父母。
Like, you you should see your parents more.
你应该多花点时间躺在吊床上。
You should spend more time in a hammock.
你会后悔工作得太拼命。
You will regret working so much.
你可以把有毒的人从你的生活中剔除。
You can cut toxic people out of your life.
这些见解都是老生常谈，人们一听到就翻白眼，觉得太陈腐了。
Like, all of these insights are cliche, and people roll their eyes at how trite they are.
但这并不能解释，为什么任何刚刚意识到这些道理的人，都会像经历过宗教启示一样，以一种重新焕发的、盛大的仪式感来宣告它们。
But that doesn't explain why anybody who's recently realized them proclaims them with sort of the renewed grandiose ceremony of someone who's gone through religious revelation.
嗯。
Mhmm.
如果这些道理这么明显，为什么每个人都会如此热切地宣扬它们呢？
It's like if it was so obvious, why does everybody proclaim it so, you know, ardently?
是的。
Yeah.
而且，除非存在某种奇怪的阴谋，让人在自己成功后把梯子抽走，否则你或许可以对名声和金钱这类事情做出这样的断言，但像选错伴侣、多陪陪父母这类事情，就不合理了。
And if unless there is some weird conspiracy to pull the ladder up after yourself, Maybe you can make the the claim of that around, like, fame and money, but, like, around dating the wrong person or around seeing your parents more or something.
这根本说不通。
It just it wouldn't make sense.
所以我对这个问题很感兴趣：你能把这种成长过程加速到什么程度？
So I'm kind of fascinated by this question of can you how much can you speedrun this?
你能跳过那些通过惨痛教训才学到的经验吗？
How much can you leapfrog going through the I learned the hard lessons the hard way?
比如，我之前无视了上一代人的经验，但这次我打算认真对待，而不是相信自己能跳舞般穿过雷区而不触发任何地雷？
Like, I disregarded the lessons of previous generations, but actually, I'm gonna take it this time as opposed to believing you can dance through the minefield without kicking tripwire?
嗯，是的。
I yeah.
这很好，我认为确实有些教训是你必须亲自去经历才能学会的。
That's a great I do think there are lessons that you just have to learn yourself.
你肯定得亲自经历一遍。
Like, you have to go through it for sure.
我想，某种程度上，当我们考虑我们为期一周的课程，或者任何其他同样高强度的课程时，我们实际上是在展示什么是真正的方向。
I think about, like, to some degree, when I think about what we're doing for that for the week long or really any of our courses that are all equally intense, what we're doing is we're showing what true north is.
我们就像在说：哦，你现在尝到了。
We're like, oh, you've tasted it now.
你已经尝过味道了，所以你知道这是可能的。
You have the taste, so you know it's possible.
我们完全相信，你会慢慢或迅速地达到那里。
And we have total faith that you will slowly get there or quickly get there.
但一旦你体验过，你就会想：哦，我不想再过别样的生活了。
But once you know it, you're like, oh, I'm I'm I don't wanna live a different way.
对吧？
Right?
一旦我看到了，我就再也不想过别的生活了。
I once I see it, I don't wanna live a different way.
所以在某种程度上，这就是我们在那些课程中所营造的体验，我们正在提供这种体验，让人们知道这对他们来说是可能的。
So to some degree, that's that's the experience that we're we're doing in in those like, we're we're giving that experience so people can know that it's possible for them.
但要做到这一点，因为你只能通过亲身经历来学会一个道理。
But for that, because you can only learn a lesson by actually experiencing it.
同时，这里有一个奇怪的捷径，那就是如果你感受到深深的爱与接纳，你就不会在心灵的雷区里有那么多杂念。
At the same time, there is kind of a there is a weird hack, which is if you feel deeply loved and accepted, it it, like, you don't have so many minds in the minefield.
对吧？
Right?
无论你是学会爱自己，还是恰好拥有一个伟大的父亲，向你展现了无条件的爱，又或者你恰好有一位朋友给予你无条件的爱，这些都能让你快速跨越很多阶段，因为你突然明白：哦，原来这就是我一直在寻找的东西。
Whether you're loving yourself or you happen to be one of those very lucky people with a great father who showed that unconditional love to to to the person or you happen to have a friend who gives you unconditional love, like, that can speed run a whole bunch of stuff because you see, oh, oh, that's actually what I'm looking for.
其他那些东西，我其实并不真正追求。
The other thing, I'm not really looking for.
我想，如果你曾经经历过归属感的荒漠，一度极度缺乏这种感受，那是对的。
I suppose if you've had a belongingness desert, if you've been sort of bereft of that Correct.
对大多数人来说。
Of most people.
你根本不知道北方长什么样。
You have no idea what north looks like.
没错。
Correct.
是的。
Yeah.
根据我的经验，你知道，我参加过一次冥想静修。
From my experience, like, you know, I I had a meditation retreat.
我妻子要求我们参加一个十天的静默静修才能结婚。
My wife required us to do a ten day silent retreat to get married.
那是她的要求之一。
That was part of her, like, requirement.
她她
She she
只是不想从你身边离开吗？
just didn't want a break from you?
是的。
Yeah.
她和我一起做了，所以可能也是。
She did it with me, so probably also.
我们明白了。
We get it.
我只是说，谢天谢地，我和他在一起。
Just I mean, I'm with him, thank god.
天啊。
God.
闭嘴。
Shut up.
闭嘴。
Shut up.
我有个关于这个的好故事。
I I have a good story about that.
我要岔开一下，然后再回来。
I'm gonna divert, and then I'll come back.
我女儿想参加一个冥想静修，我当时试着劝她别去，那时候她大概九岁或十岁左右。
I took my my daughter wanted to do a meditation retreat, and I kinda tried to tell her not to, she was like nine, 10 at the time or something like that.
但她特别坚定。
But she was hardcore.
真的很想参加三天的静修。
Really wanted to three days.
于是我们有个朋友有个静修中心，他们同意了，我们就去参加了，而且真的完成了整个过程。
So we had a friend who had a retreat center, they agreed, we went and did it and like, we finished the whole thing.
我当时问她：静修中最喜欢的部分是什么？
I was like, so what was your favorite part of the retreat?
她说，她说她最喜欢的是‘侧面’。
And she said, she said she said it was the side.
不是。
No.
就是因为你能在三天里告诉我该做什么。
It was the fact that you can tell me what to do for three days.
难以置信。
Unreal.
是的。
Yes.
走吧。
Let's go.
但在那次静修中，我有八秒钟的觉知，明白了真实的自己。
But in that retreat, that silent retreat, I had this eight seconds of awareness of who I was, like, the truth of who I was.
我又花了十五年的时间，才每天都能以那种方式生活，理解它作为一种存在方式，而不仅仅是一次八秒的体验。
It took me another fifteen years to be living that way on a daily basis to understand that as a as a way of being rather than an eight second experience.
但它就像我的北极星，指引我前行。
But it was like my my North Star and it pulled me through.
如果能体验过无条件的爱，那会让我高效很多。
One of the things that would have made that a lot more efficient is to have experienced unconditional love.
但我身边没有任何东西是那样的。
But I had I had nothing around me that was that.
塔拉没有学会，我也没有学会。
Tara hadn't learned it, I hadn't learned it.
哇。
Wow.
所以我们只能一步一个脚印地去学习。
And so, you know, we just had to learn it step by step.
但那确实能带来很大改变，因为当你对自己有无条件的爱时，就不会有追求财富的冲动。
But that that does a lot because when you have unconditional love for yourself, there's no compulsion to get wealthy.
你可能会变得富有，但不会非得追求财富或成名，
You might get wealthy, but there's no compulsion to get wealthy or to get famous or
因为我会。
Because I will.
等等。
Dot dot dot.
会。
Will.
我会。
And I will.
它们都是替代品，替代我们真正想要的东西。
They're all surrogates for the thing, like, that we actually want.
是的。
Yeah.
只是在谈论关于父母和孩子的故事。
The just talking about stories about parents and kids.
在我们录制的那期节目中，约翰说他拒绝巡演。
John, on the episode that we recorded, was saying he he refused to tour.
他不再巡演了，因为他只想和孩子们在一起。
He doesn't tour anymore because he just wants to be with his kids.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道吗，他住在长岛，世界上最大的音乐艺人会到他家里，在工作室里坐着，他特别享受这种感觉。
You know, he's he lives on Long Island, and the the biggest recording artist in the world come to his house and, like, sit in the studio, and he just loves it.
但他确实办了两场演出，两场都连续售罄，场地离他家只有十五分钟车程。
But he did a a couple of shows, two shows sold out back to back, and it was at the stadium that's a fifteen minute drive from where his house is.
他完全以最小化离家时间为目标进行安排。
And he he just totally optimized for minimum time away.
我该怎么在离家时间最少的情况下，举办规模最大的演出呢？
Like, how can I play the largest show possible with the least amount of time away from my family?
你只排练了三天，诸如此类的事情。
It's like, you only rehearsed for, like, three days, all this stuff.
其中一场演出，他儿子在后台，他们为他 setup 了一个小婴儿围栏区域。
One of the shows, his son was backstage, and they'd set up this little playpen area for him.
你知道，约翰在经历长时间停演后终于登台了，而他的儿子正好到了能开始理解眼前发生什么的年龄。
And, you know, John is finally performing after a big hiatus, and he gets to bring his son who is of an age where he can start to work out what the fuck's going on.
他大概五岁左右吧，类似这样。
He must be, like, five, I something like that maybe.
他演完后，你知道，他主要是为家人而演出。
And he finishes up and, you know, he's sort of doing it for his family.
他甚至以最有利于家庭的方式安排了这一切。
He's even done it in the manner that is most apt to facilitate his family.
所以他真的尽力调整自己，让这一切尽可能地对家庭友好。
So he's really tried to warp himself to make this as, like, family friendly as possible.
是的。
Yeah.
他演出结束，走下舞台，对儿子说：你觉得怎么样？
He finishes up, and he gets off stage, and he says to his son, and he's like, what did you think?
你觉得怎么样？
What did you think?
他儿子说：我不喜欢。
And his son goes, I didn't like it.
他问：为什么？
And he's like, why
这就是我喜欢孩子的原因。
are That's why I love kids.
为什么？你为什么不喜欢？
Why why didn't you why didn't you like it?
他说，第一首歌还行，但你一直唱个不停。
And he's like, well, the first song was okay, but then you just kept singing.
他一直唱，一直唱，我就想，爸爸什么时候唱完才能来陪我玩呢？
And he kept singing and he kept singing, and I just thought, when's dad gonna be done singing so he can come play with me?
我觉得太酷了。
I was like, so cool.
爸爸什么时候唱完才能来陪我玩呢？
When's dad gonna be done singing so he can come play with me?
你的儿子，你刚刚在离家不远的地方，为两万到两万五千名观众举办了专场演出，那是你的家乡啊，一切都圆满了。
Your son, you've just played 20,000 25,000 people sold out around the corner from your house, the hometown, city, the all of the thing.
你把演出带回家，布置好场地，把房车开过来，还把孩子们带到后院的游乐区，一切安排妥当。
Brought it back home, constructed it, brought the got the van, brought the kids to playpen out back, do the thing.
儿子就说：爸爸，你什么时候能唱完，回来陪我玩？
Son was just like, dad, when are you gonna be done so you can come back and play with me?
对。
Yeah.
你根本不在乎。
You don't give a fuck.
两万五千人根本不在乎。
25,000 people couldn't care less.
管弦乐队，全球数十亿人，都不行。
Orchestra, world billions of straight no.
去你妈的。
Go fuck yourself.
你看，我这儿有个特警战士，他正等着你呢。
Like, I got Power Ranger here, and he's waiting for you.
啊，这才是无条件的爱。
Like, ah, that's unconditional.
对吧？
Right?
我想要你。
I want you.
我想要你。
I want you.
我不在乎这些。
Don't care about any of this.
我想要你。
I want you.
你。
You.
病态。
Sick.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
就是这样。
That's it.
我的意思是，没错。
I mean, that's yeah.
而且，而且，而且，如果你从某人身上感受到这种情感，如果你允许自己接纳它——这其实也是一种技巧，让你能够接纳无条件的爱，以及我们以为自己想要的许多东西。
And and and and if you feel that from somebody, if you and you and you let it in, which is also a trick to let that unconditional love in a lot of the things that we think we want.
所以我想要富有。
So I want to be wealthy.
那么，是什么促使你想要富有呢？
Well, what makes you what's the need behind being wealthy?
是因为安全感。
Well, it's security.
那么，安全感背后的需求又是什么？
Well, what's the need behind security?
哦，这样我才能感到安全。
Oh, it's so that I can feel safe.
感到安全的背后需求是什么？
What's the need behind feeling safe?
如果你开始逐一探究这些欲望，最终你会意识到，其实我是在寻找与自己和他人的深层连接。
And if you start just going down all those wants, eventually, you'll start seeing it's like, oh, it's it's like a I'm looking for a deep connection with myself and others.
我们真正追求的就是这种意义感，这种来自自我与他人深层连接的归属感。
That's what we're looking for, that that we're looking for some sense of meaning, some sense of deep connection from self and others.
从神经学的角度来看，我们也知道这是真实的。
And neurologically speaking, that's we also know that to be true.
我们追求的是那种幸福感和意义感，它们源于深深的接纳、爱与连接。
We're looking for that sense of happiness and that sense of meaning that that comes from that feeling of deep acceptance and love and connection.
另外，如果你感到疲惫，可能你不需要更多的睡眠，也不需要更多的咖啡因，也许你只是脱水了。
In other news, if you're feeling tired, you might not need more sleep, you might not need more caffeine, might you just be dehydrated.
适当的补水不仅仅是喝足够的水。
And proper hydration is not just about drinking enough water.
关键是拥有足够的电解质，以便你的身体能够正确吸收这些水分。
It's about having sufficient electrolytes to allow your body to properly absorb those fluids.
Element含有经过科学验证的电解质配比，包含钠、钾和镁，无色素、无糖、无人工成分，也没有其他乱七八糟的东西。
Element contains a science backed electrolyte ratio, sodium, potassium, and magnesium with no color, no sugar, no artificial ingredients, or any other BS.
它在减少肌肉痉挛和疲劳方面起着关键作用。
It plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue.
它优化大脑健康，调节食欲，帮助抑制渴望。
It optimizes brain health, regulates your appetite, helps curb cravings.
这就是为什么从医生安德鲁·休伯曼到奥运运动员，再到FBI狙击手团队都在使用它。
And that's why it's used by everyone from doctor Andrew Huberman to Olympic athletes and FBI sniper teams.
这种柠檬柠檬水口味，配上一杯冰水，是我每天早晨开始的方式，现在也请你试试。
This lemon lemonade flavor and a cold glass of water is how I've started my morning every single wait for yours now.
他们提供无理由退款政策，你可以退货，他们甚至不会要求你把包装盒寄回来。
They've got no questions asked refund policy, so you can return it, and they won't even ask you to send the box back.
此外，通过点击下方描述中的链接或访问drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom，首次购买即可获得他们最受欢迎口味的免费试用装。
Plus, you can get a free sample pack of their favorite flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.
没有代码。
There's no code.
我通常更在意那个盒子。
I usually care about the box more than that.
Drinklmmt.com/modernwisdom。
Drinklmmt.com/modernwisdom.
你能讲讲那个故事吗？关于你其中一个女儿在浴室里哭，你问她是不是生气了？
Can you tell that story about your one of your daughters was crying in the bathroom, and you asked if she was pissed off?
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我是说，是的。
I this is Yeah.
这简直让我炸了，我真的希望你能讲讲这个。
This fucking blew my head off, and I think I I really want you to tell it.
嗯。
Yeah.
所以，这是我最小的女儿。
So my my so it's my youngest daughter.
她在浴室里。
She's in the bathroom.
她在哭。
She's crying.
我进去陪她。
I go in to hang out with her.
过了一会儿，我觉得你不是难过，你是生气了。
And at some point, I'm like, I don't think you're sad, I think you're pissed.
她回答：是的。
And she goes, I am.
我当时想，你什么时候难过，其实不是因为生气呢？
I was like, well, how often when you're sad are you really pissed?
她说，大概有一半的时间吧。
She's like, about half the time.
她快九岁了。
She's she's like nine.
我当时就说，那为什么呢？
And I was like, well, why?
那到底是什么让你……为什么你不直接生气呢？
Well, what makes you why why don't you get why don't you just be pissed?
她说，因为如果我生气，我姐姐埃斯梅就会打我。
And she said, because if if my Esme, the older daughter, if I get pissed, she just hits me.
但如果我伤心，她就会做我想让她做的事。
But if I get sad, she does what I want her to do.
天哪。
Bro.
我从没听过比这更好的解释，说明人们为什么要把愤怒转化为悲伤。
I don't think I've I don't think I've ever heard a better explanation of why people transmute anger into sadness.
他们不会生气。
They don't get mad.
他们会感到难过。
They get sad.
他们把这种不满从向外发泄转变为向内压抑，因为悲伤是亲社会的，会让人主动来关心你，而愤怒是反社会的，会让人躲开。
They turn this displeasure outward to displeasure inward because sadness is prosocial, and it causes people to come and take care of you, whereas anger is antisocial, it causes people to run away.
是的。
Yeah.
太牛了。
Fucking brilliant.
这很奇怪，因为我觉得你的很多听众可能都遇到过那些容易发脾气的人。
Which is strange because I think like, there's a I'm sure a lot of your audience, they are or they deal with somebody who is who is angry, has, like, a temper on them.
我注意到的一点是，当一个人脾气暴躁，而别人因为害怕他的愤怒而退缩时，这种愤怒往往会加剧。
And one of the things that I've noticed is that when somebody has that temper and then somebody gets scared of the anger, then the anger usually grows.
嗯。
Mhmm.
因为在那里发生的是，那个生气的人觉得：我失控了。
Because what's happening there is the person who's angry is like, I'm out of control.
我没有安全感。
I don't feel safe.
我我我我我感到无助，而我不愿意感到无助。
I I I I I feel helpless, and I don't wanna feel helpless.
所以我生气了，然后他们被遗弃了，于是他们变得更加愤怒，因为他们感到更加无助。
And so I'm getting angry, and then they're getting abandoned, Like, and then they get even more angry because they feel even more helpless.
我认为这里也有区别。
I think there's a difference as well.
我之前跟查理·胡珀聊过这个话题，他谈到人们从受害者状态转变为行动主体状态，再到情绪协调状态。
I had this I was telling about this conversation I had with Charlie Hooper, and he's talking about people that move from victimhood status to act action agency status to emotionally in tune status.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而你看起来实际上是在倒退，因为以前你也是被情绪所左右，但并不是通过超越、包容和转化它们，而是让情绪像一天中的风一样，毫无阻碍地把你吹来吹去。
And it looks like you're actually going backward because previously, you were also kind of ruled by your emotions, but not through transcending and including and alchemizing them, but through them just being the winds of the day that sort of blew you around without you being able to step into them.
我认为，那种原始而无意识的愤怒可能也差不多。
And I think maybe sort of raw unaware anger is not too dissimilar to that.
嗯。
Yeah.
你知道，有些人暴怒不已，砸东西，无法控制自己。
You know, somebody who's raging and breaking things and unable to sort of hold themselves together.
我对从本能的愤怒到直觉式的愤怒——或许可以称为直觉愤怒——之间的这种转变过程很感兴趣。
I'm interested in the that arc between, like, instinctual anger and intuition like, intuitive anger, perhaps.
嗯。
Yeah.
也许这种说法不太准确。
Maybe that's the wrong terminology.
嗯。
Yeah.
我是这样想的：我们体内有一股情绪能量流，我们就称它为愤怒吧。
So I the way I think about it is, like, we have these emotion let's call it, like, a tube of of an energy running through us, and we'll call this one anger.
如果你把它往一个方向打结，它就像一条漂亮的裙子。
And then if you kinda kink it one way, it's nice dress.
或者如果你往另一个方向打结，那就是我要迟到了，而且我会变得被动攻击。
Or if you kink it another way, it's I'm gonna be late, and and I'm gonna be passive aggressive.
你不可能有别的选择。
You can't get another way.
那就是大喊大叫。
It's yelling.
那就是尖叫。
It's screaming.
但在所有这些情况下，愤怒都伴随着羞耻感，而当愤怒在你体内顺畅流动时，它实际上是一种行动的信号和设立界限的契机。
But in any of the cases, there's shame around the anger instead of what the anger actually it is when you when it starts moving fluidly in your system is it's a cause for action and a cause for boundaries.
所以当我意识到我现在生气了，我会想：哦，我生气了。
So when I notice that I'm angry now, I'm like, oh, I'm angry.
我会想：哦，这里需要设立一个界限。
I'm like, oh, there's a boundary that needs to be drawn.
我知道 somewhere 需要设立一个界限。
I know there's an a boundary that needs to be drawn somewhere.
某种意义上，我关心某件事，却没有为之挺身而出，我需要为它站出来。
There's some way in which I am there's something I care about that I'm not standing for, and I need to stand for it.
是的。
Yeah.
让我们谈谈界限。
I let's talk about boundaries.
流行心理学，这个世界上最爱用的词，人们从夫妻咨询到各种场合都在滥用它。
Pop psychology, favorite word of the world, people weaponizing it from their couples counseling to them.
你越界了，这叫我在维护界限。
You've crossed about this is me holding a boundary.
不。
No.
这并不是因为你是个混蛋。
It's not to you being an asshole.
是的。
Like Yes.
好的和坏的界限分别是什么样子？
What do good, bad boundaries look like?
那些模糊、可塑、易变的界限是如何演变成愤怒的？
How do slippery, malleable, pliable boundaries turn into anger?
给我这个等式吧。
Give me the give me the equation there.
是的。
Yeah.
界限，最容易理解的两种情况是：第一种是你从不告诉别人他们应该做什么。
So, boundaries, the the the two easy ones to say for boundaries is the first one is that you're not ever telling somebody else what they're supposed to do.
那是一种权力斗争。
That's a power struggle.
这并不是界限。
It's not a boundary.
是你告诉他们会做什么。
It's you telling them what you're gonna do.
好的。
K.
你能给我举个例子吗，关于前者和后者？
Can you give me an example of Yeah.
前者和后者？
The former and the latter?
对。
Yep.
我会画一个我认为是权力斗争的边界，而不是真正的边界：每次你生气，我就打你一拳。
I'm gonna draw what I would say is a power struggle boundary, not a real boundary, would be every time you get angry, I'm gonna punch you in the face.
或者每次你生气，你就必须离开家。
Or every time you get angry, you need to leave the house.
每次你生气，你都必须向我道歉。
Every time you get angry, you need to apologize to me.
你得停止大喊大叫。
You need to stop yelling.
那是另一种情况：每次你生气，我就离开房子。
That's that whereas the other one is every time you get angry, I'm gonna leave the house.
每次你生气，我都会要求你别对我大喊大叫。
Every time you get angry, I'm going to ask you to stop yelling at me.
如果你不听，我就离开房子，二十分钟后回来。
And if you don't, I'm gonna leave the house, and I'm gonna come back in twenty minutes.
然后我们可以继续谈话，除非你又对我大喊大叫，那样我就再做同样的事。
And then we can continue the conversation unless you yell at me again, and then I'm gonna do the same thing.
所以一种是：这是我打算做的事。
So one is this is what I'm gonna do.
我的意思是，选择权在我自己手里。
I mean, I'm I'm the one that gets to choose for me.
我不是在替你做决定。
I'm not choosing for you.
所以，界限的一个非常好的地方就在这里。
So that would be one really good thing about a boundary.
如果你在告诉别人他们必须做什么，那就不是界限。
If you're doing anything where you're telling somebody else what they have to do, it's not a boundary.
这是一种权力斗争，也表明你正处于恐惧和羞耻之中。
It's it's a power struggle, and it and it just shows that you're in fear and shame.
你实际上是在这段关系中来回传递恐惧和羞耻。
You're basically passing fear and shame back and forth in the relationship.
第二点是，这一点当你尝试时会让人颠覆认知：无论你的反应如何，任何界限都会让我更能爱你。
The second one is, and this is the one that will bend people's minds when they try it, is whatever the boundary is, it it it makes it that I'm more capable of loving you no matter what your response.
所以它打开了我对你的内心。
So it opens my heart to you.
一个良好的界限会打开我的心，因为我们很难去爱那些我们认为压迫我们的东西。
A great boundary opens my heart to you because it's very, very hard for us to love anything that we think oppresses us.
所以，如果我设立一个能打开我内心的界限，就意味着我不再把你视为压迫者。
So if I draw a boundary that opens my heart, it means that I no longer see you as the oppressor.
哦，我有能力做我需要做的事并照顾好自己，这意味着你无法压迫我。
It's oh, I have the capacity to do what I need to do here and take care of myself, which means that you you can't oppress me.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这就是我教人如何设立界限的方式。
So that's how I that's how I I that's how I teach how to draw boundaries.
嗯。
Mhmm.
嗯。
Mhmm.
如果你不执行界限，会发生什么？
And what happens when you don't enforce the boundaries?
其实没什么可执行的，因为这只是你正在做的事。
Well, there's nothing to enforce because it's just what you're doing.
好的。
Okay.
那么，如果你没有按照你设定的界限所建议的那样去做，或者没有说明会发生什么，会怎样呢？
Well, what happens if you don't do what your boundary would suggest that you're supposed to do or don't say that that's going to happen.
当对方太过顺从时，会发生什么？
What happens when they're too pliable?
比如，会怎么样？
Like, what's the
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
所以，这没问题。
So that's that's a okay.
界限的一个有趣之处就在于此。
So that's a cool thing about boundaries.
所以，如果有人害怕自己无法坚持界限，他们通常会采取非常严厉的方式。
So what happens is if somebody is scared that they're not gonna maintain their boundary, what typically they'll do is they'll either do it really, really harsh.
他们会说：每次都会离开你。
They'll be like, this is the I'm gonna leave you every single time.
你对我大喊大叫。
You yell at me.
我要走了，出门了。
I'm gonna I'm out of the door.
他们会做类似的事情，这不幸地让听到边界的人更难真正听进去，反而激起更多抵触情绪。
They'll do something like that, which unfortunately makes it harder for the person who's hearing the boundary to hear the boundary and more of a resistance going on.
所以你说：‘哦，我害怕了。’
So you're saying, oh, I'm scared.
我要撂挑子了，因此我必须对此表现得非常、非常强硬。
I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna flake, and therefore, I have to be really, really strong about this.
然后，所以这就是通常发生的情况。
And then and so so that's so that's typically what's happening.
人们通常感到害怕的原因是我僵住了。
The reason that people are usually scared are are I'm freezing.
好吧。
Okay.
所以我打算穿上一件连帽衫。
So I'm gonna put a hoodie on.
继续说。
Keep going.
但人们之所以这样，如果你仔细看看恐惧背后的本质，其实是害怕我会失去联系。
But whereas people are are to but if the if you really look at what the fear is underneath it, the fear is that I'm gonna lose connection.
我不设定界限的原因是我认为，如果我坚持界限，你就不会爱我了。
The reason that I'm not gonna draw the boundary is because I think that you won't love me if I if I hold the boundary.
嗯。
Mhmm.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以这通常是人们害怕、无法一致坚持界限的原因。
And so that's usually why people are scared of of of that there are they they don't aren't consistent with the boundary.
另一件事是，如果你正确地设定界限，界限会随着时间自然变化，因为一旦你意识到自己没有被压迫，就不需要同样的界限了。
The other thing that happens is that the boundary will change over time naturally if you're doing them right because once you realize that you're not oppressed, you don't need the same kind of boundaries.
所以，如果我想起我父亲，他是个酒鬼，我跟他设立的第一个界限就是：你喝酒的时候，我就不在你身边。
So, like, if I think about my father, who was an alcoholic, my first boundary with him was like, I'm not gonna be around you if you are drinking.
嗯。
Mhmm.
然后变成了：你喝醉或宿醉的时候，我就不在你身边。
And then it was, I'm not gonna be around you if you're drunk or hungover.
再后来变成了：哦，不管你是不是喝醉或宿醉，只要你这样对待我，我就不在你身边。
And then it was, oh, I'm not gonna be around you if you treat me like this, this, or this, whether you're drunk or hungover or not.
即使你喝醉或宿醉，我也可以在你身边。
And I can be around you if you're drunk or hungover.
但如果你这样对待我，我就走人。
But if you treat me like this, I'm I'm out.
哦，有意思。
Oh, interesting.
所以，一旦你开始明白，哦，实际上掌控自己命运的人是我自己。
So the so once you start learning that, oh, I actually am the one I get to control my own destiny.
我决定自己是否被关心。
I get to control whether I'm cared for.
我决定自己是否在爱自己。
I get to control if I'm if I'm loving myself.
嗯。
Mhmm.
然后，突然间，界限变得不那么必要了，或者变得更柔和、更敞开心扉。
Then then all of a sudden, the boundaries become less necessary, or they become softer, more more open hearted.
这其中有多少是害怕被看见？
How much of this is a fear of being seen?
害怕真正地表达：这就是我。
Being sort of truly, say, this is me.
这就是我想要的。
This is what I want.
我的欲望是正当的。
This is my desires are legitimate.
嗯。
Yeah.
我会的，嗯。
I would yeah.
是的。
I yes.
是的。
Yes.
我认为其中一部分更准确地说是一种羞耻感，觉得‘这就是我’、‘这就是我想要的’、‘这就是我想过的生活’。
I think some of it it's maybe more accurately put as as a shame of this is who I am, this is what I want, and this is how I actually wanna live my life.
好像我不被允许那样做。
Like, I'm not allowed to do that.
这其实是我们的大脑会做的一种奇怪的事，它会说：‘不行。’
I like, it's, like, it's a weird thing that our mind will do, and it'll be like, no.
我其实需要扭曲自己才能得到这种爱。
I I actually need to bend to get this kind of love.
我需要变得不同。
I need to I need to be different.
我不需要那么多关注。
I need to not want that much attention.
我不需要生气。
I need to not be angry.
我不需要那样，我们有一大堆必须做到的事情。
I need to not like, I we have this whole list of things that we have to do.
然后你会发现，其实这些事情都没问题，我们也可以因为它们而被爱。
And and then it's like, it's a process of realizing that all of those things that are actually okay, and we can be loved for them as well.
为什么人们更愿意默默忍受，而不愿被看见呢？
Why a more or why are people more comfortable with silently suffering than being seen sometimes?
是羞耻。
It's shame.
是羞耻。
It's shame.
就好像普遍认为你身上有什么问题一样。
It's like the it's the the general thought process that there's something wrong with you.
就像，这就是关键所在。
Like, that's that's the that's the thing.
而脆弱正是治愈这一点的良方。
And and and vulnerability is the cure for that.
比如，你可以把它看作十二步计划，整个过程就是我要说出所有让我感到羞耻的事情，然后我依然能被爱，即使带着这些羞耻。
Like, if you whether you think about it as, like, 12 step programs where the whole thing is I'm gonna say all the things that I'm ashamed about, and I'm gonna be able to be loved in that shame.
我会看到其他人也在经历同样的事，也曾经历过，我能看出他们都是善良可爱的人，只是犯了错误。
And I'm gonna see that other people are going through that and have done that, and I can see that they're good, lovely people who've made a mistake.
所以，我也可以是一个善良可爱、但犯了错误的人。
And so I can also be a good, lovely person who made a mistake.
这就是对抗羞耻的解药。
That's the antidote for the shame.
所以最大的问题是，当人们把这一切都藏在心里时，羞耻就失去了得以消解的空间。
So the the biggest issue is that when people keep all that to themselves, there's no real air for the shame to decompose.
对吧？
Right?
所以它永远无法成为更好生活的养分。
So it's it never becomes the compost for a better life.
它只是变成了一种腐臭的东西，
It just becomes this rancid thing that's
哦，这很有趣。
Oh, that's interesting.
深埋地下。
Buried deep.
这个比喻真棒。
That's a cool analogy.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
你有一条线索，那是你在情绪上回避的最强烈的信号。
You've got this line, the strongest smoke signals that you're avoiding in emotion.
第一，反复思考，无休止的过度分析。
Number one, looping thoughts, endless overthinking.
嗯。
Yeah.
第二，二元决策，卡在两个选择之间无法抉择。
Number two, binary decisions, feeling stuck between two options.
第三，对他人的严厉评判。
Number three, harsh judgment of others.
嗯。
Yeah.
大多数内在成长之所以失败，是因为它是从它试图疗愈的自我排斥中进行的。
Most inner work fails because it's done from the same self rejection it's trying to heal.
我觉得这些是相互关联的。
I feel like those are linked together.
嗯。
Yeah.
恐惧这一点很有趣，因为我说过那种二元思维，你把事情看成非黑即白。
The fear one's interesting because well, I said binary thinking there that you think of things black or white.
买这辆车。
Buy the car.
别买这辆车。
Don't buy the car.
做这个播客。
Do the podcast.
别做这个播客。
Don't do the podcast.
离开这个女孩。
Leave the girl.
和这个女孩在一起。
Stay with the girl.
这是一种直接的、未表达出来的恐惧。
That's an immediate that's fear unexpressed.
这就是它的本质。
That's what that is.
所以当我们感到害怕时，就会陷入二元思维。
So when we when we're scared, we go into binary thinking.
这就是为什么恐惧并不是解决问题或充分利用情境的好帮手，因为你开始将你的视角局限在二元对立上。
We and it's why fear is really not a great ally for good problem solving or getting the most out of a situation because you start limiting your your perspective to binary.
嗯。
Mhmm.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以那个特别的二元思维——尤其是恐惧带来的二元思维，以及评判性的思维。
And so that that one that one's particular binary particularly fear, the binary thinking one, the one on judgment.
当我们评判别人时，实际上发生的是，我们正在回避某种不想面对的情绪。
That's really there's no time that we're judging somebody when they're when what's actually happening is there's emotion we don't wanna feel.
你能给我举个例子吗？
Could you give me an example?
当然。
Yeah.
所以我正在评判某人把元素T放在那上面。
So I am judging somebody for hawking element t on the thing.
嗯。
Mhmm.
确实如此。
Rightly so.
不是威洛·贝尔曼。
Not Willow Bellman.
完全不是。
Not not at all.
是的。
Yeah.
实际上发生的是，如果我静下心来思考，我会想：如果我感受不到那种评判，那才是你要问的问题。
What's actually happening there is I if I sit with it, I'm like, oh, if I couldn't feel that judgment, that's the question you ask.
如果我感受不到那种评判，我必须去感受什么？
If I couldn't feel that judgment, what would I have to feel?
而我可能感受到的是嫉妒，因为你有一个与你志同道合的优秀赞助人，或者我可能有一种想法：每当我试图推销自己或赚钱时，我就是坏的。
And what I would might feel is jealousy that you have a great sponsor who's aligned with you, or I might feel like I might have this idea that anytime I'm trying to sell myself or make money, I'm bad.
既然我不允许自己有这样的想法，我也无法允许你有这样的想法。
And since I don't allow it in myself, I can't allow it in you.
所以我感受到的是自己的这种情绪，因为当然，我们所有人某种程度上都在推销自己。
So I'm feeling that own because I'm of course, we're all selling ourselves on some level.
所以，我当然会感受到推销自己的羞耻感。
So, of course, I feel the shame of selling myself.
所以也许这就是羞耻感。
So maybe it's the shame.
但评判之下，总有一些我们没有感受到的情绪。
But there's always something underneath the judgment that we're not feeling.
如果你问自己这个问题，就会立刻得到解答。
And if you ask yourself that question, it's like an immediate resolve
评判。
of judgment.
再次？
Again?
是的。
Yeah.
如果我无法感受到那种评判，我会感受到什么？
It's, if I couldn't feel that judgment, what would I have to feel?
所以
So
你可以直接去面对你任何一种评判，去发现它，通常这些评判最常见于父母、女朋友，但你也可以对男朋友说，比如：我评判我的女朋友这样。
you can literally just go into any judgment that you have and and just find it, like and usually they're best for like moms, dads, or girlfriends, but you can say like or boyfriends, you can say, oh, I judge my girlfriend for this.
然后，如果我无法感受到那种评判，我会感受到什么？
And then if I couldn't feel that judgment, what would I have to feel?
你开始看到那些你不允许自己拥有的部分。
And it just you start seeing what the parts of yourself that you're not allowing.
有什么实际的方法可以打破反刍思维、循环想法和无尽的过度思考吗？
What about practical way to break the loop of rumination, looping thoughts, endless overthinking?
表达情绪。
Express emotions.
不要对别人表达情绪。
Don't express them at people.
不要对别人大喊大叫，或用恐惧去吓唬别人——这通常是人类的做法，也正是我们觉得情绪如此糟糕的原因。
Don't go yelling at people somebody or being scared at somebody, which is typically what humans do, which is why we think that emotions are so bad.
比如，我生气了，所以我就要对你发火；我害怕了，所以我就要用恐惧去感染你，让你也承担我的恐惧。
It's like, I'm angry, so I'm gonna get angry at you, or I'm scared, so I'm gonna, like, be really scared at you so that you take on my fear.
于是没人想要这样，但我们把情绪本身和情绪中的攻击性混淆了——也就是说，你把情绪发泄在别人身上，而不是仅仅去感受它。
And so nobody wants that, but we we've mistaken the emotion for the aggression in the emotion, which is like you're doing it at somebody instead of just having the emotion.
但如果你在过度思考，我见过这种情况。
But if you're overthinking, I've seen this.
你见过这种情况。
You've seen this.
就像我们在你参加的那为期一周的活动中做的那样，我们在其他课程中，包括那些更长的课程里，也这么做。
Like, we do this in that week long that you participated in, and we do it in our in our other courses too, the the longer ones.
有人在情感表达之后，立刻获得了清晰的领悟。
Somebody has emotional expression and immediate clarity on the other side of it.
我知道我需要做什么。
I know what I need to do.
所以，这种反复思考只是我在努力，而从理智上理解它的方式是这样的。
So that rumination is just, I'm trying and the and the way to think about it intellectually is this.
我正在努力，我正在试图解决一个问题。
I am trying to I'm trying to solve a problem.
我试图解决的问题是我不想感受某种情绪。
The problem I'm trying to solve is I don't wanna feel a certain way.
嗯。
Mhmm.
那我该不该让Element做赞助商呢？
So I should I take element or should I not take element as a sponsor?
对吧？
Right?
我陷入了二元思维。
So I'm in binary thinking.
我因为某种原因感到恐惧，一遍又一遍地反复纠结。
I'm in fear because of whatever, and I'm looping on it over and over and over again.
我不希望自己觉得选了它是个错误，也不希望自己因为没选它而感到没钱或贫穷。
I don't want to feel like I'm wrong for having taken it, and I don't want to feel like I don't have enough money or poverty if I don't take it.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我有这两种想要回避的感觉。
I have these two feelings that I'm trying to avoid.
所以如果你能坦然面对这些感受，真正去体验它们，你就会想：好吧，那我就去感受它。
And so if you are good with any of the feelings because you feel them, you're like, oh, well, I'm gonna feel this.
我会感受它。
I'm gonna feel that.
我会感受一切。
I'm gonna feel it all.
然后，突然间，做出决定就变得非常容易了。
Then all of sudden, the decision is really easy to make.
顺便说一下，如果你最近感觉有点迟钝，你的睾酮水平可能是问题所在。
A quick aside, if you have been feeling a bit sluggish, your testosterone levels might be the problem.
它们在你的能量、专注力和表现中起着至关重要的作用，但大多数人根本不知道自己的水平如何，也不知道出了问题该怎么办。
They play a huge role in your energy, your focus, and your performance, but most people have no idea where those are or what to do if something's off.
这就是我与Function合作的原因——我想用一种更智能、更全面的方式来了解我身体内部发生了什么。
Which is why I partnered with Function because I wanted a smarter, more comprehensive way to understand what's happening inside of my body.
他们每年进行两次实验室检测，监测超过100项生物标志物，他们的专家医生团队会分析数据，并为你提供切实可行的建议，以改善健康和延长寿命。
Twice a year, they run lab tests that monitor over 100 biomarkers, and their team of expert physicians analyse the data and give you actionable advice to improve your health and lifespan.
通过一年内追踪你的睾酮水平及其他大量生物标志物的变化，并获得改善建议，你能清晰地看到提升生活质量的路径。
Seeing your testosterone levels and tons of other biomarkers charted over the course of a year with actionable insights to improve them gives you a clear path to making your life better.
但不幸的是，像这样进行血液检测和分析通常需要花费数千美元，而通过Function，只需499美元，还可以再减100美元，降至399美元。
And, unfortunately, getting your blood work drawn and analyzed like this usually costs thousands, but with function, it's just $499, and you can get an additional $100 off, bring it down to $399.
点击下方描述中的链接，或访问functionhealth.com/modernwisdom，获取我和我使用的相同血液检测套餐，立省100美元。
Get the exact same blood panels that I get and save a $100 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom.
那就是functionhealth.com/modernwisdom。
That's functionhealth.com/modernwisdom.
你有一个决策课程。
You have a decisions course.
嗯。
Yeah.
我还没上过。
I haven't done it.
我已经听过你讲过，如果没有情绪，你就无法做决定——如果你是个正在经历某种奇怪的、类似部分脑叶切除术的病人，你可能要花半小时才能决定用哪支蜡笔写字，或者想吃哪种三明治，对吧。
I've already heard you talk about you can't make a decision without emotions if you are some patient going through some weird, like, quasi lobotomy thing, it takes you half an hour to choose which crayon to write with or what sandwich you want or Right.
诸如此类。
Etcetera.
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