#1047 - 乔纳森·斯旺森 - 夺回时间的显而易见策略

你必须投入，投入越多，你的合作关系就会越好。

You have to invest, and the more you invest, the better your partnership will get.

事实上，如果你看看雅典娜最优秀的助手，也就是那前1%，他们恰好都是为最擅长委派任务的客户工作。

And in fact, if you look at the best assistants at Athena, that kind of top 1%, they just so happen to work for the clients who are the best at delegating.

这绝非偶然。

Not a coincidence.

他们之所以如此出色，是因为客户非常擅长表达自己的思路、给予反馈、表扬和认可，在他们犯错时帮助建立信心，指导他们改正并引导方向。

They've become so good because the client is so good at exporting their thinking, giving feedback, praise and recognition, helping build up their confidence when they make mistakes, helping correct them and steer them.

这确实像是一种婚姻。

And it really is a marriage of sorts.

因此，只要双方都真正投入其中，这种关系就会非常强大。

And so as long as both parties are really invested in it, it can be super powerful.

但如果是一方单方面付出，那就不会奏效。

But if it's one-sided, ain't gonna work.

人们如何获得更好的反馈？

How do people get better feedback?

我认为这是很多人难以应对的问题。

I think this is something that lots of humans struggle with.

所以第一点是多做几次。

So number one thing is do it more often.

人们做得太少了。

People just don't do it enough.

第二点是你需要更加详细。

The number two thing is you need to be way more detailed.

说‘这个不错’或者‘那个不好’，这样没用。

Hey, this was good, or hey, that was not good, not helpful.

有效的反馈必须非常具体且及时。

Helpful feedback is very specific and it's very timely.

比如，‘你做的这个任务，我喜欢是因为你速度很快、非常细致，还有X、Y、Z’，或者‘下次我希望你能这样改’，一定要具体。

It's, hey, this task you did, I liked because you are super fast, you are detailed, x y z, or hey, next time, I'd like you to do this differently, and be very specific.

这就是最重要的。

So that's just the most.

你需要不断地去做。

Like, you need to be doing it constantly.

必须非常详细。

It needs to be very detailed.

另一个对很多人来说不明显的是，在委派任务时，你应该真正地把自己的个人方法和思维方式也一并传递出去。

The other thing that is non obvious to lots is that you should really be exporting your own personal algorithm and your own thinking as you delegate.

所以，一种新手式的委派方式是：嘿。

So kind of a a novice way of delegating would be, hey.

当我下周在奥斯汀的时候，你能帮我和克里斯策划一场晚餐派对吗？

Will you plan a dinner party for Chris and me when I'm in Austin next week?

这很可能不会按照你想要的方式组织起来，因为这里缺乏足够的细节。

That's probably not gonna be organized the way you want because there's not much detail there.

更好的委派方式应该是说：嘿。

The better way to delegate would be to say, hey.

当我举办晚餐派对时，我期望它们是这样的。

When I have dinner parties, here's what I like them to be.

我希望有六到八个人。

I want it to be six to eight people.

我希望人群多样化。

I want there to be a variety.

这是我寻找派对邀请的地方。

Here's where I go to find party invites.

我会去找那些与我们公司有关或有类似兴趣的人。

I go look for people who have this to our company or these sorts of interests.

你基本上要创建一个算法或流程，让对方可以一步步遵循。

You basically create an algorithm or a process the person can follow step by step.

然后他们就能获得切实的执行指导。

And then you then then they have, like, real guidance for executing.

然后他们执行，之后你再回到这个流程，说：嘿。

And then they execute, and then you go back to that process and say, hey.

这里有三个步骤我们漏掉了，可以进一步完善这个流程。

There's three steps in here that we missed that will refine this further.

让我们继续调整这个算法。

Let's continue to tweak the algorithm.

对于那些有工程思维的人来说，这非常自然。

People who are kind of engineering minds, this comes very naturally.

但对于其他人，你得学会怎么做。

But for other people, you have to learn how to do it.

光说‘这是我想要的’还不够，还得说明我通常是怎么达成的。

It makes it makes sense to say not just this is the thing that I want, but this is how I typically get there.

如果你有个帮你准备餐食或处理邮件的人，但你没告诉他们：其实我喜欢鸡蛋煎得再硬一点。

If if you have a a person who helps you do meal prep or helps you with your emails or something and you don't explain to them, well, actually, I like my eggs to be a little bit firmer.

所以我通常的做法是，哒哒哒哒哒哒哒哒。

So typically what I do is, da da da da da da da da.

或者当我回复邮件时，我习惯加上两个签名，因为这样在邮件线程中显示效果不同，我觉得展示这个链接能体现一点信誉，还有哒哒哒哒，这就是我的做法。

Or when I send a reply, I tend to put two signatures in because it actually shows it differently on the thread, and I think that link's important to show a little bit of reputation, and da da da da, so this is how I do it.

我想这能让别人看到你的思维方式。

I suppose it allows people to see your thinking.

没错。

Exactly.

在人工智能领域，有一个叫做上下文工程的概念，现在非常流行。

There's a in AI world, there's this concept of context engineering that's become very popular.

为了提升模型的性能，你必须输入所有的上下文，因为模型非常聪明，但它们缺乏上下文。

To make the models more performant, you have to pipe in all the context because the models are very smart, but they don't have context.

在委托给助手或其他人时，情况也是如此。

And the same is true with delegating to an assistant or otherwise.

如果没有足够的上下文，就不可能做好这件事。

It's like, if there's not enough context, it's impossible to do it well.

因此，作为委托者，你的任务是输出你所拥有的所有上下文。

And so your job as a delegator is to export all the context you have.

而不太明显的是，你拥有的上下文比你意识到的要多上百万倍，只是它们一直静静地在那里。

And what's non obvious is that you have a million times more context than you could possibly realize, and it's just sitting there.

输出这些上下文需要练习，这就是为什么这些能力会随着时间积累，因为第一天根本不可能输出全部内容。

And it takes practice to export that, and that's why these things compound over time because there's no way to export it all on day one.

但在持续积累数月乃至数年后，你最终会达到那个境界。

But over the course of compounding for months and years, you eventually get there.

人们如何培养对低效的容忍度？

How do people build a tolerance for inefficiency?

尤其是如果你属于那种会想：也许我可以请个保洁员的人。

Because especially if you're the sort of person who thinks, I might I might get a cleaner.

也许我会请个保洁员短暂地帮忙。

I might get a cleaner for a little bit.

或者我会请人来打理园艺，因为我真的讨厌这个，而且我也做得不太好。

Or I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna get someone to do the gardening because I fucking hate it, and I I kinda suck.

而我更想在周日早上陪孩子度过时光。

And I really wanted to spend my time on Sunday mornings with the kids instead.

如果你是那种愿意做出这种认知跃迁的人，那你大概本身就是一个长期的过度优化者，这意味着当你看到低效时，这会特别让你困扰。

If you're the sort of person who is prepared to make that cognitive leap, you're also probably a perennial over optimizer in any case, which means that when you see inefficiency, that is a particular bugbear to you.

那么，你该如何提高对低效的容忍度呢？

So how do you improve your tolerance for inefficiency?

这部分只是意识到这是一个正确的权衡。

Part of it is just realizing it's the right trade.

所以，你知道，迈克尔·乔丹会自己割草吗？

So, you know, does Michael Jordan mow his own lawn?

不会。

No.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

我打赌如果他真去割，肯定会做得超棒。

I bet if he did, he'd be effing amazing.

对吧？

Right?

而不管谁去做，都不可能达到他的水平，但他完全可以去做别的事。

And whoever does it is never gonna reach his level potential, but he could just be doing something else.

所以问题是，你愿意去做别的事吗，即使某件事做得不够高效？

And so it's like, do you want to do something else even if something's done inefficiently?

这你只能接受。

That's just something you have to accept.

我另一种看待方式是，埃隆经常说团队是向量的总和。

Another kind of framing I have is Elon most sometimes talks about teams being the vector sum.

所以公司就是所有参与人员的向量总和。

So the company's a vector sum of all the humans involved.

这其实就是一种更花哨的说法，意思是由于这些向量没有完全对齐，所以存在低效。

And, you know, it's just a fancy way of saying there's inefficiency because these vectors are not perfectly aligned.

要获得更多的产出，唯一的方法就是对低效有更高的容忍度，而这是一个宇宙的基本法则：如果你追求越来越多的产出，就会有越来越多的低效，因为涉及的人越多。

And the only way to get more output is to have a higher tolerance for inefficiency, and that's just a fundamental rule of the universe is if you're focused on more and more output, there's gonna be more and more inefficiency because more humans are involved.

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

所以低效是你为了整体提升产出必须付出的代价。

So inefficiency is a price that you need to pay to increase output overall.

我的意思是，我记得上大学时学过规模不经济，其中最大的一个就是沟通问题——你本就知道所有你需要知道的东西，因为设计上你就是唯一需要这些信息的人。

I mean, I remember in university learning about diseconomies of scale and one of the biggest ones being communication, that you know everything that you need to know by design of the fact that you already know it and you're the only person that needs it communicating to.

一旦有两个人，他们就需要知道你现在知道的东西，而其中一些信息在传递过程中就会丢失。

Soon as you got two people, well, they need to know what you now know, and some of it gets lost in translation.

一旦团队扩大到13人，就会有很多信息被遗漏和丢失，但整体产出能力却提升了，尽管效率降低了。

And as soon as you scale up to 13, there's lots that gets missed and lost, but your total capacity for overall output has gone up even though the efficiency is less.

13个人组成的团队，其效率低于13个各自在13家不同公司里单独工作的个体，但拥有13名员工的公司总产出，却高于任何一个单独个体的产出。

13 people in a team is less efficient than one person 13 times in 13 different companies, but the total output of the company that's got 13 staff is greater than any of the individuals that have got one.

百分之百。

A 100%.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗？换一种问法是，你如何衡量你的人生？

You know, how do you another way of asking this question is how do you measure your life?

你是用效率来衡量，还是用你和妻子约会的次数、锻炼的次数，或者花在爱好上的时间来衡量？

Do you measure it by efficiency, or do you measure it by how many times you go on a date with your wife, or how many times you exercise or how much you spend time doing a hobby?

这些产出才是你真正关心的。

Those outputs are what you actually care about.

你并不关心创造这些产出过程中所涉及的低效问题。

You don't care about the inefficiencies that were involved in creating those outputs.

你只是想要你想要的美好生活。

You just want that good life that you want.

哇。

Wow.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

那么杠杆与抱负之间的关系呢？

What about the relationship between leverage and ambition?

因为在我看来，许多非常有抱负的人会充分利用他们的杠杆，但我感觉这可能会形成一个反馈循环。

Because it seems to me that lots of people who are very ambitious lean into their leverage, but I I get the sense that it can become a feedback loop as well.

那么，你如何构建野心和杠杆呢？

So how how do you come to construct ambition and leverage?

是的。

Yeah.

这是我们辅导客户进行授权时发现的最反直觉的点之一：大多数人认为有权势或成功的人拥有大量杠杆，而这正是他们变得有野心的原因。

This is one of the more counterintuitive things that we discovered as we've coached clients on delegation, which is most people assume that powerful people or successful people have all this leverage, and that's how they become ambitious.

这就是他们拥有如此多野心的原因。

That's why they have all this ambition.

或者因为他们有很多钱，所以能创造这么多杠杆。

Or because they have all this money, they can create all this leverage.

但我们在实践中看到的是，人们的野心会随着杠杆的增加而线性增长。

But what we see in practice is that people's ambition clearly grows linearly as their leverage grows.

原因其实很清楚。

And the reason for this is pretty clear.

当你被生活压得喘不过气，当你面对的任务远超你能处理的范围时，你的野心就会收缩，因为你只想着如何熬过接下来的24小时。

When you are overwhelmed by life, when you have more than you can possibly handle, your ambition just narrows because you're trying to get through the next twenty four hours.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但当你把这种认知负担分担给他人，比如合作伙伴或助理时，你就获得了思考更大目标和更高抱负的认知空间。

But to the extent you take this cognitive load off, you share it with someone else, this partner or assistant, you now have the cognitive space to think about bigger goals, bigger aspirations.

因此，随着你获得更多的杠杆，你的抱负实际上会增长。

And so as you unlock more leverage, your ambition actually grows.

我在自己创办第一家公司的过程中也见过这种情况，比如Thumbtack，那时我们被繁重的工作和挑战压得喘不过气。

And I've seen this in my own life during times with my first company, Thumbtack, when, you know, we're just drowning with all the work and the challenges.

我当时只专注于眼前的事情，心里根本没有空间去考虑新的理想。

I was just focused on that thing, and there was no space in my mind to consider new aspirations.

但随着我逐渐获得更多杠杆，你会想，我该怎么利用它呢？

But to the extent I've gotten more and more leverage over time, you know, what do you wanna do with it?

哦，我会不会想再创办一家公司？

Oh, it's like, do I wanna start another company?

我会不会，是的，为朋友们做更多有趣的事？

Do I wanna, yeah, do more cool things for my friends?

这就是你的抱负真正得以增长的方式。

And that's how that's how your ambition can really grow.

我的意思是，有多少人说，他们之所以无法思考重要的事情，是因为紧急的事情挡在前面？

Well, mean, how many people say that the reason they can't think about the important is because the urgent is in the way?

我想这意味着，你花在不做紧急事务上的时间越多，就能接触到越多重要的事情。

And I suppose that means that the more time you spend not doing the urgent, the more important stuff you have access to.

这看起来是个相当不错的交换。

That seems like a pretty good trade.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

你必须先处理紧急的事情，这样才能拥有做重要事情的权利和机会。

The you gotta do you gotta do the urgent so you have the, yeah, the right and the opportunity to do the important.

而你越是能将紧急事务分担出去，就能获得越多做重要事情的机会。

And to the extent you can offload the urgent, you get more than important.

这是一笔非常美好的交易。

And that's a beautiful trade.

这里是否也与意志力有关？不必做那些无聊的事，意味着你可以把意志力用在别人无法做到的事情上？

Is there a relationship here with willpower as well that not having to do bullshit means that you can use your willpower on stuff that somebody else can't do?

当然。

Absolutely.

我的意思是，我们的意志力和工作动力也是有限的。

I mean, we we also have a limited number, a little amount of willpower and work ethic.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得我最多只能多工作10%、20%，但我不可能多工作10倍，也不可能拥有10倍的意志力。

It's like, I I will I would say I I can work 10% more, 20% more, but I can't work a 100 or 10 times more, and I can't have 10 times more willpower.

这根本不可能。

It's just impossible.

上帝和自然赋予了我一定量的意志力和能动性，所以我必须尽可能高效地利用这些有限的意志力和能动性。

I have God and nature has granted me with a certain amount of those things, and so I have to use that limited willpower and limited agency in the best way possible.

我不希望把有限的意志力用在护照续签这种事上。

And I don't wanna be using my limited willpower on, you know, my passport renewal.

这根本不是我生活中最重要的事。

That is just not the highest order thing in my life.

我宁愿把意志力用在帮助朋友解决问题，或者推动我的事业进展，或者其他类似的事情上。

I would rather be using that to, yeah, help a friend solve a problem or accomplish something in my business or or something else.

所以我认为，当你把那些单调琐碎的事情都卸掉之后，就能把更多意志力释放到更重要的事情上。

And so I think you can unlock more willpower into higher order things the more you unload these more monotonous things.

在我们继续之前，你可能没意识到，夜间用嘴呼吸正在破坏你的睡眠、恢复能力以及第二天的能量水平。

Before we continue, you might not realize it, but mouth breathing at night is wrecking your sleep, recovery, and energy the next day.

而所有这些问题，其实都可以通过这个东西得到极大改善。

And all of that is actually fixed massively by this here.

这是Intake，一种鼻腔扩张贴片。

This is intake, which is a nose strip dilator.

我已经每晚都使用它超过一年了。

And I've been using it every night for over a year now.

我试过世界上几乎所有的产品，而这个绝对是最好的。

I tried pretty much every one in the world, and, this is by far the best.

它是一个硬塑料条，而不是那种柔软、易损的一次性产品。

It's a hard plastic strip as opposed to a soft, flimsy, disposable thing.

Intake 采用专利磁性技术撑开你的鼻孔，让你每次呼吸都能吸入更多空气。

Intake opens up your nostrils using patented magnetic technology, so you get more air in with every breath.

这意味着打鼾更少、睡眠更深、恢复更快，第二天注意力也更好。

It means less snoring, deeper sleep, faster recovery, and better focus the next day.

大多数鼻贴的问题是它们会脱落。

The problem with most nasal strips is that they peel off.

它们会刺激你的皮肤。

They irritate your skin.

它们实际上并没有解决根本问题。

They don't actually solve the issue.

这个东西，我的意思是，我不会拿子弹射它，但它非常非常牢固。

This sucker is, I mean, I'm not gonna shoot a bullet at it, but it's very, very strong.

它可重复使用，舒适到让你完全忘记它的存在。

It's reusable and comfortable enough that you forget it's even there.

这就是为什么它受到专业运动员、忙碌的父母以及超过一百万只想更好呼吸和睡眠的客户的信赖。

That is why it's trusted by pro athletes, busy parents, and over a million customers who just want to breathe and sleep better.

我就是其中之一，过去十二个多月以来，我每晚都在使用。

And I'm one of them, and I've used them every single night for over twelve months now.

它们是最好的。

They're the best.

我们提供九十天无理由退款保证，你可以试用三个月。

There's a ninety day money back guarantee, so you can try it for three months.

如果你不满意，如果没有获得更好的睡眠，他们会全额退款给你。

And if you don't like it, if you haven't got better sleep, they'll just give you your money back.

此外，它们支持国际配送，并在美国提供免费配送。

Plus, they ship internationally and offer free shipping in The US.

现在，通过点击下方描述中的链接或访问 intakebreathing.com/modernwisdom 并使用

Right now, you can get 15% off your first order by going to the link in the description below or heading to intakebreathing.com/modernwisdom and using the

结账时输入代码 Modern Wisdom。

code Modern Wisdom at checkout.

访问 intakebreathing.com/modernwisdom，并在结账时输入 Modern Wisdom。

That's intakebreathing.com/modernwisdom and Modern wisdom at checkout.

假设有人已经下单了，接下来该怎么做呢？

Go through for me, let's say someone's bought in.

他们就会说：就这样吧。

They're like, that's it.

我要找一个助手。

I'm gonna find myself an assistant.

我要通过 Athena 来找，或者亲自找个人，随便怎样都行。

I'm gonna do it through Athena, or I'm gonna find somebody in person or whatever.

有效整合的起点在哪里？应该从哪里开始？

What what does effective levels of integration where should somebody start?

最先该外包哪些事情？

What are the first things to outsource?

最好的入职方式有哪些？

What are the the ways to best onboard?

给我详细讲讲整个流程。

Take me through the the full stack.

是的。

Yeah.

第一步是先从聊天机器人、面对面沟通，或者任何你认为合适的方式开始。

So step one is start with chatty pity or in person or whatever it is.

委派任务的入门方法是先卸下让你痛苦的事。

And the beginner way to delegate is offload pain.

列出所有你不喜欢做、消耗你意志力、让你不开心的事情，然后从这些开始。

So make a list of all the things that you don't like doing that reduce your willpower, that make you unhappy, and start there.

这些通常是些单调乏味的工作。

And this is kind of monotonous stuff.

比如你的收件箱、日程安排、缴费、护照续期等等。

It's like your inbox, your calendar, paying bills, passport renewal, etcetera.

把这些事情全部外包出去可能需要一年时间。

This might take a year to offload all these things.

当你逐步外包时，我的

As you offload, my

我得暂停一下，因为很多人可能会假设——我想，我刚开始用助手时也是这么想的——这会立刻解决我的所有问题。

I just need to pause I need to pause there that that the what a lot of people might assume, I think, and I know I certainly did when I started working with assistants, was this is going to be the immediate fix for me.

我会让这个人进入我的生活，然后我就再也不用做任何事了。

I'm gonna introduce this person into my life, and I'm never gonna have to do anything again.

但对这种整合发生的速度保持适度的预期，我认为真的非常关键。

But being modest with the speed at which this integration is going to happen effectively, I think, is a a really, really good idea.

是的。

Yeah.

听好了。

Look.

我的建议是，把这当作一种全新的生活方式。

My recommendation is you you do this as a new way of living.

我认为这是做任何事情的正确方式，无论是锻炼、冥想，还是其他任何事。

I think that's the right way to do anything, exercise, meditation, or whatever.

如果你只坚持一周或一个月，那几乎没什么用。

If you're doing it for a week or a month, kinda worthless.

但如果你能一辈子坚持下去，那么它就会产生复利效应。

But if you can do this for the rest of your life, then it will compound.

而且，是的，你一开始会感到痛苦，要处理这些单调的事情。

And, yeah, you start with pain, unload, all these monotonous things.

一旦你完成了这些，你就会开始追求自己的理想。

And then once you do that, then you start chasing your aspirations.

问题是，对我来说，我该如何结交更多朋友呢？

It's how do I you know, for me, this is how do I make more friends?

我该如何深化我的人际关系？

How do I deepen my relationships?

我该如何拥有最美好的婚姻？

How do I have the best marriage possible?

我该如何在朋友需要时支持他们？

How can I be there for friends in need?

这些正是助手实际上能帮上忙的事情，但除非你先把护照续了、信用卡账单付了，其他所有事情都处理妥当，否则你根本不会去做。

And those are the sorts of things that assistant can actually help you with, but you're not gonna actually do that unless you've, you know, got your passport renewed and your credit card bills paid and everything else done first.

所以，这是大致的框架。

So that's kind of the high level.

先消除痛苦，然后提升你的志向，去追求你的目标。

Remove pain, and then increase your aspirations and and go for your goals.

在委派的层级上，大多数人一开始是按任务来委派的。

In terms of the levels of delegation, the way most people start delegating is they delegate by task.

嘿。

Hey.

你能帮我为我妻子的生日订购这些花吗？

Will you help order these flowers for my wife's birthday?

这是个不错的开始方式，但却是最弱的委派方式。

That's a good way to start, but it's the least powerful way to delegate.

更中间层次的委派方式是按流程委派，这正是我们之前讨论过的。

The more intermediate way to delegate is delegate by process is what we've talked about.

就是说，嘿。

It's like, hey.

当我给妻子送礼物时，我希望做到 x、y 和 z。

When I give gifts to my wife, I want x, y, and z.

这是她喜欢的东西。

Here's what she likes.

这是她不喜欢的东西。

Here's what she doesn't.

你现在是在教你的助手以更高的层次做事。

And you're now teaching your assistant how to do things at a higher level.

更高级的委派者接下来会采用按目标委派的方式。

The next level more advanced delegators do is they delegate delegate by goal.

这通常需要多年时间，你和助手之间已经高度默契，给了他们大量反馈，以至于你只需下达一个目标，他们就能以你期望的方式执行。

And this takes often years where you've mind melded with your assistant and give them so much feedback that you can just delegate a goal, and they can execute it in the way you'd want.

是的

Mhmm.

所以这就是，我想多运动。

So this is, hey, I wanna exercise more.

我想保护我的睡眠。

I wanna protect my sleep.

我想多花点时间陪生命中的这个人，规划我的日程，拒绝不符合这一优先级的会议。

I wanna spend more time with this person in my life, architect my calendar, reject meetings that don't fit this priority.

没有人能一开始就进行目标型委派。

No one can start by delegating by goal.

你必须循序渐进，但这就是你最终想要达到的境界。

You have to build your way up, but this is where you wanna get to.

而最高级别的委派，我称之为预知型委派。

And then the highest level of delegation, I call it clairvoyant delegation.

这是委派的终极境界。

This is the nirvana of delegation.

这就是你提供了大量反馈之后的状态，你的助手完全契合你的个人和职业目标，能够预判你的需求。

This is where you have given so much feedback, and your assistant is so in line with your personal and professional goals that they can anticipate your needs.

而你第一次听说某项任务时，它已经完成了。

And the first time you hear about a task is when it's done.

这是一种非常难以达到的境界。

This is a level that is very difficult to reach.

我不会承诺任何人能在第一周就达到这种水平，但这就是你应该追求的目标。

I would not promise anyone gets this on week one, but this is what you should aspire to get to.

而我现在经常能瞥见这种状态。

And I I have glimpses of this now all the time.

这并不是我持续处于的状态，但我的助手会主动联系我说：嘿。

It's not something I live in constantly, but my assistant will reach out and say, hey.

我知道你希望我去做 X Y Z。

I know you wanted you'd want me to do x y z.

已经做完了。

It's already done.

这里，你只需要签个字就行。

Here, you just gotta sign this.

这时候你就会说，对啊。

And that is where you're like, yeah.

这，这，这真不错。

This this this is good.

而且，没错，它释放了如此多的认知负担，你甚至都不用去委派任务。

And, yeah, it unlocks so much cognitive load that you didn't even have to delegate it.

你不必去想它。

You don't have to think about it.

它就是直接说，嘿。

It was just, hey.

已经完成了，现在你可以去做别的事情了。

It's done, and now you can go on to do something else.

我想，这正是当前AI的一个局限性，按照设计，必须先输入提示，任务才能完成。

I suppose that's one of the current limitations of AI that, by design, the prompt needs to be done before the task is completed.

我不确定是否 somewhere 有这种功能，但我觉得目前任何大语言模型都不会在周一早上主动提醒你该做什么事，或者告诉你某件事已经替你完成了。

I'm not I'm sure there probably is somewhere, but I don't think any of the LLMs at the moment are gonna pop up on a Monday morning and remind you that you need to do the thing or have done the thing and then tell you that it's been done on your behalf.

它仍然是自上而下的，而不是自下而上的。

It's still very sort of top down as opposed to bottom up.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我认为人工智能会变得越来越好。

I I do think AI is going AI is just gonna get better and better.

而且我认为这确实是一个机会，我相信很多人工智能实验室都会这么做。

And I do think there is an opportunity for and I think lots of AI labs are gonna do this.

它们会开始监控你工作时的屏幕，观察你在做什么，然后主动提供帮助你的机会。

They're gonna start watching your screen as you work, and they're gonna look at what you're doing, and they're gonna proactively offer opportunities for them to help you.

我们已经在Athena内部开发了一个类似的东西作为测试工具，我们只是用它来监控内部员工的工作，然后自动将他们应该委派但尚未向助手明确表达的任务委派出去。

And this is we've built something like this at Athena as kinda internal testing tool where we watch this is we're just using it for in internal employees, but we watch them as they work, and then we automatically offload a task they should delegate, but they haven't vocalized to their assistant.

而开发这个内部工具的人，现在大部分委托任务都是由机器生成的。

And the person who built this internally, the majority of his delegations are now machine generated.

这意味着他根本没有开口说话。

That means he didn't say anything.

他只是在电脑上工作。

He's just working on his computer.

机器实际上在监控着一切。

The machine is effectively watching.

它会识别出他的助手可以帮忙的事情，然后把这些任务发送给助手。

It's identifying things that his assistant could help with, and it sends it to the assistant.

当然，人类仍然参与其中，系统会说：‘克里斯，你需要我帮你处理这件事吗？’

Now, of course, the human's in the loop, and it's gonna say, oh, Chris, would you want me to help with this?

我会开始处理，或者这个没用。

I'll start working on it, or this one's worthless.

我会说不用。

I'll say no.

所以我认为这正是世界发展的方向。

So I I do think that is going where the world's going.

我认为我们正走向这样一个世界：你只需工作，机器观察你，识别你的目标，然后将任务交由机器与人类协作来执行。

I think we're getting it to a world where you just work, machines watch you, they identify your goals, and then pass it off to a combination of machine and human assistance for the execution.

在一个人们错误地外包或过度外包的世界里，可能的负面外部性有哪些？

What are some of the potential negative externalities of a world where people outsource incorrectly or they they do it too much?

或者人们在哪些方面会做错这件事？

Or what are some of the ways that people can get this wrong?

是的。

Yeah.

我听到一些人说，你不应该把生活交给别人代劳。

I hear some people say, you know, you shouldn't delegate your life.

我认为这是对的。

And I think that's right.

比如，你不应该把陪伴孩子或妻子的时间外包出去。

Like, you shouldn't delegate spending time with your kids or with your wife.

你应该把那些你不乐意做的事委托出去，以便专注于对你有意义的事情。

You should delegate the things that you don't wanna do to do the things that are meaningful to you.

所以我认为这是一种方式。

So I think that's one way.

另外，我认为你应该以助理应得的尊重和关爱来对待他们。

You know, the other thing is I think you need to treat your assistant with the respect and love that they deserve.

对吧？

Right?

这不仅仅是说，

This is not just, hey.

替我做这个。

Do this for me.

而是说，

This is, hey.

我们是合作伙伴。

We're a partnership.

我想帮助你构建你的生活。

I wanna help you build your life.

我想给你更多机会，更多收入。

I wanna give you more opportunity, more income.

你需要帮助支持我，这必须是相互的。

You're gonna help support me, and it needs to be a mutual thing.

这种情况并不常见，但我们确实在Athena解雇过几位客户，因为他们对助手不够友善，这对我们来说是不可接受的。

We this doesn't happen very often, but we've had to fire a few clients at Athena who just like weren't kind to their assistance, and that's unacceptable to us.

我们只愿意与那些对助手友善、慷慨的人合作，因为我们的助手是为了照顾你而存在的，他们付出了很多，理应得到同样的回报。

We we only wanna work with people who are are kind and generous with their assistance because our assistants are there to take care of you, and they give so much that they deserve, that same in exchange.

是的。

Yeah.

我担心，在我生活的某些阶段，我可能对那些无法避免的胡扯变得越来越敏感，因为我已经不再每天面对这些胡扯了。

I worry there's been parts of my life where I've got I've got concerns that my tolerance or my resilience for bullshit, which is inescapable, may become more finely attuned as I don't deal with bullshit on a daily basis.

就像那些去太空的宇航员，他们在太空中不需要承受任何重量，但回到地球后却无法支撑自己的身体。

Kind of like, you know, these astronauts that go up to space and they don't need to lift any weight, and then they come back down and they're unable to support themselves.

这说得通吗？

Does that make sense?

我完全明白你的意思。

I totally know what you mean.

我住在波多黎各，在那里办事情要更困难一些。

That we I live in Puerto Rico, and the getting things done in Puerto Rico is a little more difficult

比我说的稍微有挑战性的是，那种‘明天再说’的文化。

than I've I've heard slightly challenging is when the manana the manana philosophy.

我很幸运有这个团队，他们基本上在我和办事困难之间起到了过滤作用。

And I am, you know, I'm lucky to have this team that's basically filter between me and the difficulty of getting things done.

有时候我会跳出这个过滤层，然后才意识到，天啊，我差点忘了这有多难。

And, you know, I do occasionally step outside of that filter, and I'm like, woah, I've like forgot how hard this is.

所以你看，如果是像在车管局排队这种事，我根本不需要擅长。

So look, I think if they're for like waiting in line at the DMV, I just like never need to be good at that.

所以我不介意自己的这些技能退化。

So I don't mind if my skills atrophy.

但你知道，如果某件事对你的工作、技能或专业至关重要，那么显然你不能完全委托出去，而必须亲自掌控并保持技能熟练。

But you know, if something's important for your work or your skill set or your craft, then obviously you can't fully delegate it and you need to own that and keep your skills sharp.

所以我认为，如果你把这类事情委托出去，这可能会是一件负面的事情。

And so I think if you delegate something like that, that could I I could see that being a negative thing.

但还有上百件其他事情是可以委托的，这些事都不属于你核心技能的范畴。

But there's a 100 other things to delegate that are not core to your highest skill, and all those things.

我不太在意，我的邮件管理技能会不会退化。

I don't I don't really care if, yeah, my inbox management skills atrophy.

这并不是我专业领域的重点。

Just not my not my focus in my field.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

另外，你可能听过我提起过Element，因为说实话，我非常依赖它，它是我每天早晨开始工作的必备工具。

In other news, you've probably heard me talk about Element before, and that's because I am, frankly, dependent on it, and it's how I've started my day every single morning.

这是市场上最好喝的补水饮料。

This is the best tasting hydration drink on the market.

你可能会想，为什么我需要更注重补水呢？

You might think, why do I need to be more hydrated?

因为适当的补水不仅仅是喝足够的水。

Because proper hydration is not just about drinking enough water.

而是要摄入足够的电解质，让身体能够有效利用这些水分。

It's having sufficient electrolytes to allow your body to use those fluids.

每一份便携式小包都含有经过科学验证的钠、钾和镁电解质配比。

Each grab and go stick pack is a science backed electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium.

它不含糖、色素、人工成分或其他任何添加剂。

It's got no sugar, coloring, artificial ingredients, or any other junk.

这在减少肌肉抽筋和疲劳、优化大脑健康、调节食欲和抑制渴望方面起着关键作用。

This plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue while optimizing brain health, regulating your appetite, and curbing cravings.

这种橙子口味的饮料，兑在冰水中，是一种甜美、微咸、充满橙香的甘露，你服用后和不服用时的差别会真切地感受到，这就是我不断提起它的原因。

This orange flavor in a cold glass of water is a sweet, salty, orangey nectar, and you will genuinely feel the difference when you take it versus when you don't, which is why I keep going on about it.

首先，他们提供无条件退款政策，且没有时间限制。

First of all, there's a no questions asked refund policy with an unlimited duration.

买了之后用完，如果因为任何原因不喜欢，他们会全额退款，你甚至不需要退回包装盒。

Buy it, use it all, and if you don't like it for any reason, they give you your money back, and you don't even have to return the box.

他们对你一定会喜欢这款产品充满信心。

That's how confident they are that you'll love it.

此外，他们在美国提供免费配送。

Plus, they offer free shipping in The US.

现在，通过点击下方描述中的链接，访问 drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom，首次购买即可免费获得 Element 最受欢迎口味的试用装。

Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below, heading to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.

这是 drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom。

That's drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.

考虑到人类历史的漫长，这种解决方案有多新颖？

How how novel of a solution is this given the expanse of human history?

它有多新？

How recent is it?

因为这听起来在某种程度上像是一个全球化的TikTok世代、Z世代、ChatGPT式的解决方案：人们就应该能随时去获取它，伙计。

Because it can sound in some ways like, again, a cosmopolitan TikTok generation, Gen Z, ChatGPT solution to well, people should just be able to sort of go and go and get it, man.

是的。

Yeah.

与悠久的历史相比，这种做法究竟有多新？

How how recent is this versus how sort of steeped in history?

对。

Yes.

我们在Athena做了一些有趣的调研。

We did some fun research at Athena.

我们实际上使用了人工智能来完成这项工作。

We actually used AI to do this.

我们列出了一份上千位历史伟人的名单，下载了每个人的十本传记，然后研究他们是如何委派任务的。

We we got a list of thousand of the kind of greats of history, and downloaded 10 biographies in all of them, and then looked for how they delegated.

无论哪种类型的人——西塞罗、牛顿、凯撒、爱因斯坦、伏尔泰、盖茨、丘吉尔、毕加索、佛陀——他们全都拥有私人助理。

And across all sorts of people, Cicero, Newton, Caesar, Einstein, Voltaire, Gates, Churchill, Picasso, Buddha, all of them had personal assistants.

这并非巧合，因为这些人的成就比历史上其他人多出了上千倍，而不是仅仅十倍。

And it's not a coincidence because these people did not 10 x, but like a thousand x more than other people have done in history.

有一种伟大的个人史观，认为一个人就能做出伟大的事情，这确实有一定道理。

And there's this kind of great man view of history that one person does these great things, and there's some truth to that.

但现实是，背后其实有一支团队、一个组织，通常还有一位助手，帮助这个人成就伟业。

But the reality is there's actually a team, and there's an organization, and there's typically an assistant who is helping this person accomplish great things.

但历史书籍从不会把这些人的名字印在封面上。

The history books just don't put those people on the cover.

但事实就是如此，事情正是这样发生的。

But that's how that's how it's actually happened.

而且，读这些故事确实很有趣。

And yeah, it's fun reading these stories.

我目前正在读一本关于西塞罗的传记，他有一位助手，确实帮助他管理罗马帝国，试图保护共和国。

I'm I'm reading a biography of Cicero right now and he has assistant who is, yeah, helping him manage the manage the Roman Empire and trying to protect the republic.

这位助手并不是我们在学习历史时会了解到的人物，但他的作用非常重要。

And this guy is not, you know, the person we learn about when we learn about history, but it was important.

所以，你知道，我们对这个问题的看法是，无论你想完成小事还是大事，有个助手都会很有帮助。

And so, you know, our view of this is if you wanna accomplish small things or great things, it's helpful to have an assistant.

还有一些有趣的故事。

There's there's also funny stories.

比如叶卡捷琳娜大帝，我认为她在委派任务方面非常出色。

So Catherine the Great, I think, was one of the the greats at delegation.

她不仅把管理帝国和修订法律的任务委派出去，还把约会生活也交给了别人处理。

She delegated not just managing her empire and rewriting the the laws, but she also had someone she delegated her dating life.

因此，她专门安排了一个人负责初次约会，并测试所谓的‘男性能力’。

And so she had someone dedicated to first dates and to testing, quote, male capacity.

而且

And

不可能吧。

No way.

是的。

Yeah.

那个人实际上在为她负责流量入口。

And that person kinda was running top of funnel for her.

我当时就想，凯瑟琳，你真是个委托大师。

And I'm like, dude, Katherine, you are an OG delegator.

太狠了。

Savage.

天哪。

Holy shit.

太疯狂了。

Insane.

这就像P. Diddy的授权方式。

That's like p Diddy's delegation.

是的。

Yeah.

莱特兄弟，我有两本关于他们的书。

The Wright brothers, I've got two books about them.

室友乔治着迷了。

Housemate George is obsessed.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

他们把莱特兄弟飞机引擎的初步设计委托了出去。

And they delegated the first design of the plane engine for the Kitty Hawk.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Correct.

是的。

Yeah.

达尔文委托了一整支事实收集助手团队，为《物种起源》收集数据。

Darwin delegated this whole army of fact gathering assistants to collect data for the origin of species.

爱迪生委托助手寻找第一个灯泡的灯丝。

Edison delegated to an assistant to find the filament for the first light bulb.

他们在京都找到了它，如今京都还有一座纪念这位发现者的小神社。

They found it in Kyoto, and there's actually a shrine that exists in Kyoto today to the assistant who found this.

等等。

And So hang on.

等等。

Hang on.

等等。

Hang on.

等等，我并没有失败。

Hang I have not failed.

我只是找到了一千种行不通的方法。

I have just found a thousand ways that I did not succeed.

托马斯·爱迪生实际上并没有亲自设计出灯丝的方案。

Thomas Edison did not actually technically come up with the design for the filament himself.

那是他团队中某个人的成果。

It was just someone on his team.

他把这件事委托出去了。

He delegated it.

他说：我需要这个灯丝。

He said, I need this filament.

得有人去，得有人去找到它。

Someone needs to go someone needs to go find it.

但，是的，所有的功劳都归他，这也没关系。

But, yeah, he gets all the credit, and that's fine.

历史就是这样运作的，但这并不是

That's how history works, but it's not how

我的意思是，莱特兄弟。

I mean, the Wright brothers.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，第一个设计并不是真正成功的那个。

It's it's I mean, I I don't think the first design was the one that worked.

但有一句话特别精彩。

But there was a there's this really cool line.

我认为是拍摄基蒂霍克号首次飞行照片的摄影师，称怀特兄弟是我见过最勤奋的小伙子。

I think it's the photographer who took the pictures of the first flight when the Kitty Hawk was up, and he referred to the Wright brothers as the workingest boys that I ever saw.

所以，就像这种纯粹的十九世纪初美国风格的句子——‘我见过最勤奋的小伙子’。

So, like, just the like, this pure early nineteen hundreds Americana kind of sentence, the workingest boys that I ever saw.

他是在谈论他们专注的特质、主动性以及个人主权等等。

He's talking about their single-minded nature, their agency, their personal sovereignty, and so on.

但第一台发动机的设计并不是他们完成的。

But the first engine design wasn't done by them.

所以，他们简直是‘最会委派任务的小伙子’了。

So it was like the delegatingest boys that I ever saw.

没错。

Exactly.

你看，历史并不会因为你事必躬亲就给你加分。

Look, you know, history doesn't award style points for doing it all yourself.

历史奖励的是把事情做成。

History awards points for getting it done.

而把事情做成的方式是，好观点。

And the way you get things done is Good point.

靠团队合作。

With with the team.

对我们有些人来说，那是个助手。

And for some of us, that's an assistant.

对其他人来说，比如史蒂夫·乔布斯，他有一支一万人的团队帮助他将iPhone变为现实。

For other people, you know, Steve Jobs, he had a a team of 10,000 people who are helping him bring the iPhone to life.

但，是的，你不应该试图独自完成一切。

But, yeah, you you shouldn't you shouldn't try to do it all alone.

没错。

No.

如果史蒂夫·乔布斯或爱迪生都无法独自完成，那你也不该试图独自去做。

If if Steve Jobs can't do it alone or Edison can't do it alone, you shouldn't try to do it alone.

这是个很好的观点，因为我觉得，作为一个英国人，我会感到谦卑——我凭什么把这件事外包出去？

It's a good point because I think the humility, certainly the humility that I would feel as a a Brit, who am I to outsource this?

我的生活没那么艰难。

My life's not as difficult.

我猜，一个明显的批评是：当然，总统需要一支庞大的助手团队。

And I suppose it's an obvious criticism to say, well, yeah, the president needs an army of assistance.

当然需要。

Of course, does.

他是总统啊。

He's the president.

但我不想做那种事，所以我没必要那样。

But I'm not trying to do that, so I don't need that.

但反过来说，是的，你也不是总统。

But the flip side is, yeah, also, you're not the president.

你没有像托马斯·爱迪生或莱特兄弟那样的能力。

Like, you don't have the capacity of somebody like a Thomas Edison or the Wright brothers.

因此，鉴于这一点，你的目标确实更平凡、更谦逊，你的能力也是如此。

So given that, yeah, your your goals are more mediocre and and more humble, but so is your ability.

我认为

And I think

我的意思是，如果拿破仑和李光耀都需要助手，那我更需要了。

I mean, if Napoleon and Lee Kuan Yew need an assistant, think how much I need it.

他们是世界上能力最强的人之一。

They're some of the most high capacity people in the world.

是的，你说得完全对。

And, yeah, you're exactly right.

你有没有研究过委托的神经科学？

Have you looked at the neuroscience of delegation?

比如，它在大脑中是如何体现的？

Like, it appears inside of the brain?

因为我想象中，有很多未完成的事项可以因此被解决。

Because I imagine that there's a lot of open loops that can get closed off.

我也知道，不同任务、新任务会以特定的大脑区域来应对，这涉及到丹尼尔·卡尼曼所说的系统一和系统二。

I also know that there's a hierarchy of how different tasks, new tasks get attacked with certain areas of the brain, system one and system two from sort of Daniel Kahneman stuff.

这看起来似乎很直观：外部由他人执行任务，与大脑内部已经发生的机制之间存在对应关系？

It seems like a pretty obvious map from doing it externally with a different person to what is already happening internally with inside of our brains?

是的。

Yeah.

委托行为可以追溯到人类的起源，我们的大脑天生具有不断优化能量和信息的强烈需求。

Delegation goes back to origin or species, and our brains have this relentless desire to optimize both energy and energy and and information.

正因为这种优化，大脑形成了一套任务分配的层级结构：复杂的全新任务由前额叶皮层处理，而常规任务则被交由更底层、更自动化的神经结构来完成。

And because of that optimization, it has the brain has crafted this hierarchy of task distribution where complex novel novel tasks are tackled by our prefrontal cortex, and routine tasks are offloaded to lower and more automated neural structures.

所以我们常说，不是我们的大脑只是‘适合’委托，而是它‘被委托塑造’了。

So we like to say that it's not that our brain was merely wired for delegation, but it was wired by delegation.

这种机制从一开始就被刻入了我们的大脑。

And it's just built into our brains from the very beginning.

我们在大脑内部进行委托，而现在，我们还能在人与人之间进行委托。

We delegate inside our brains, and now we can delegate between brains.

你做的那些生活实验是什么？

What did these life experiments that you did?

我觉得你几乎每年都会做一些疯狂的年度测试，是吧？

You did you've pretty much every year, I think, a while, did some wild annual test.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

你从这些实验中学到了什么？

What what did you learn from doing those?

嗯，我天生喜欢实验，就是喜欢尝试各种东西，把生活搅个天翻地覆。

Well, I just I'm experimental, so I just like trying things and ripping life up.

你知道吗，我离开我的公司Thumbtack后，做的第一件事就是：我每天从早上8点到晚上10点全是会议，感觉完全掌控不了自己的时间。

You know, I think one of the the first things I did after I left my company, Thumbtack, were my meetings I had meetings from 8AM to 10PM all day long, and I felt like I just didn't have sovereignty over my time.

所以当我离开后，我就决定：我要不设任何日程。

And so when I left, I said, I'm gonna work with no calendar.

零会议。

Zero meetings.

如果你想和我聊聊，就给我打电话吧。

If you wanna if you wanna talk to me, call me.

我们用WhatsApp或者语音留言吧。

Let's do go WhatsApp or voicemail.

那是我做过最有解脱感的事情之一。

And that was one of the most freeing things I've ever done.

这并不是总能实现的事情，但我确实推荐给任何有机会哪怕短暂地不靠日程表工作的人。

It's not something you can always do, but I I certainly recommend to anyone who has a chance to kinda work without a calendar for even a little bit.

这是一件很棒的事。

It's a beautiful thing.

好的。

Okay.

那关于语音委托的解决方案呢？

And what about the delegating by voice solution?

是的。

Yeah.

所以，委派工作是有层次之分的。

So there are there's a hierarchy of how you delegate.

大多数人用拇指在手机上委派任务，这是最差的方式。

And most people delegate with their thumbs on their phone, worst way.

比这好一点的是用全部手指通过邮件委派任务。

Kind of better than that is to delegate with all your fingers on email.

但最好的委派方式是通过语音，而不是打字，而是发语音消息。

But the best way to delegate is by voice, where instead of typing things, you voice note.

我曾经尝试了一年，几乎完全通过语音来委派任务。

And I tried for a year just delegating almost exclusively through voice.

语音委派比其他方式强大得多，因为你说话的速度是打字的三到五倍。

And voice is way more powerful than other mechanisms of delegating because you can talk three to five times faster than you can type.

你可以在会议间隙、打车时、在健身房完成。

You can do it between meetings, in an Uber, at the gym.

而且它还

And it's also

我觉得这样也没那么费劲。

I think it feels less arduous as well.

就像是，我just有这么个事儿。

It's like, I've just got this thing.

我在想该怎么表达这个呢？

Trying to work how do I want to say this?

我得把事情打出来，而不是说，嘿。

I've gotta type the thing out as opposed to, hey.

我需要花，我想我需要什么来着？

I need flower I think I need what do I need?

花。

Flowers.

我需要花，而且今天就要。

I need flowers and and today.

我今天需要花。

I need flowers today.

然后事情就差不多完成了，而不是费劲地思考哪些内容需要通过拇指打出来。

And then it's kind of done as opposed to working out what needs to go through your thumbs.

是的。

Yeah.

说到如何提供更好的反馈，更好的反馈方式就是通过语音进行。

And, you know, to the point of how do you give better feedback, the way you give better feedback is you do it by voice.

因为如果你得打上一页笔记，你根本就不会去做。

Because if you have to type up a page of notes, you're just not gonna do it.

但如果你能简单地说：嘿，我喜欢什么，然后在公园散步时聊一聊，整天都在说。

But if you can just be like, hey, here's what I liked, and you talk about it as you walk on in the park, you talk all day long.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为学会用语音委派任务需要一些训练。

I think it takes some training to learn to delegate by voice.

有些人对此不太适应，但如果你看看雅典娜公司最擅长委派任务的人，他们全都整天不停地用语音委派任务。

Some people are a little uncomfortable with it, but if you look at the top delegators at Athena, they all delegate by voice constantly, just all day long.

好的。

Okay.

年初的时候，很多人都立了新的目标，我也是。

Start of the year, a lot of people have got new resolutions, myself included.

我其中一个主要目标是减少使用手机的时间。

One of my big ones is to reduce my time on my phone.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你是怎么减少手机使用的？你学到了哪些相关的策略？

How have you managed to reduce phone use, and what are some of the strategies that you've learned around that?

我试过的第一个方法是，你知道的，手机里有个时间应用，可以显示你在各个应用上花了多少时间。

So the first thing I tried, you know, there's this time app on your phone that just shares how much time you're in different apps.

Week source。

Week source.

Weak source。

Weak source.

完全正确。

Totally.

我试过用那个，根本没用。

I tried using that, it's just useless.

所以，对我有效的实验是，当我买新手机时，我保留了旧手机，并把它降级为我所谓的‘自由手机’。

And so what I what I the experiment that worked for me was when I went to buy a new phone, I kept my old phone, and I downgraded it to what I call my freedom phone.

我把它上面的所有内容都删了，只留下最基础的功能。

And I deleted everything from it except the bare essentials.

我可以叫网约车，可以打电话，但没有邮箱，没有所有聊天应用，也没有那些让人上瘾的东西。

I can Uber, I can I can make phone calls, but I don't have email, I don't have all my messaging apps, I don't have all the bad things?

我甚至走得更远，屏蔽了所有新闻网站、查看加密货币价格以及其他各种干扰内容，而且密码在我妻子手里，所以我根本无法解锁它。

And I actually have gone so far that I've banned all news sites, checking the price of crypto, all sorts of other stuff, and my wife has the code, so I literally can't unlock it.

所以，我称这个‘自由手机’为我出门时随身携带的设备，它只保留了我需要的功能，其他所有内容都被彻底锁定。

So this freedom phone I call is what I take out of the house with me, and it's got the stuff I need, and everything else is totally locked down.

这是我唯一试过且有效的方法，因为对我来说，根本不可能用它来做任何分心的事情。

And that's the only thing I've done that's worked because it's literally impossible for me to use it for anything distracting.

至于我本人，我不介意经常打电话，我不知道你怎么样。

And I don't for me personally, I don't know about you, but I don't mind if I'm on the phone a lot.

如果我给朋友打电话，那没问题。

If I'm like making a phone call to a friend, that's cool.

我不喜欢的是无意识地拿起手机查看通知。

What I don't like is just like passively picking up the phone to check notifications.

这纯粹是在浪费脑力，根本不该这么做。

That's just a waste of brainpower and shouldn't be doing.

这个完全锁定的自由手机帮我解决了这个问题。

And this freedom phone that's totally locked down has solved that for me.

这是个很好的观点。

That is a good point.

你知道，人们大概每两年就会换一次手机。

And, you know, people upgrade a phone every two years, maybe, something like that.

等到再过两代iPhone发布时，你换机时大概能抵扣300美元，或者200美元。

And by the time that, you know, two iPhones from now's iPhone comes out, you'll get $300 or maybe $200 at trade in.

我不知道你能得到多少，但我知道这和设备带来的价值完全不匹配。

I don't know I don't know what you would get, but I know it's not, it's not concordant with the amount of value that the device brings.

是的。

Yeah.

难道这手机就值200美元吗？

It's certainly not like, a $200 for that phone?

天啊，我确实会这么做。

Like, fucking, yeah, I would.

即使电池稍微差一点也没关系。

Even if the battery sucks a little bit.

所以我会把新手机设为自由手机，而把旧手机保留下来，因为它还得连着一些东西——我早就一直支持这种做法了。

So what I would do is I would actually make the new phone the Freedom phone, and I would make the old phone because the old phone's kind of got to be tethered to but I I I've been I've been a proponent of this for quite a while.

我最极端的时候用过三部。

I think my most extreme was three.

一部是可卡因手机，另一部是羽衣甘蓝手机，第三部是仅限Wi-Fi的手机，我就是用它来做早晨的例行事务。

One was the cocaine phone, another was the kale phone, and then a third one was Wi Fi only, and that was what I actually did morning routine stuff on.

所以那上面有冥想应用、Kindle、Audible，可能还有播客应用，所有我做的个人发展相关活动的登录信息。

So that was meditation apps, that was Kindle, Audible, maybe podcast apps, all my breath work stuff, my logins for all of the different personal development things I was doing.

然后我回到了家。

And I went back home.

这真是太搞笑了。

It's so funny.

圣诞节期间我回到了英国，回到了我以前的家，进了我以前的卧室——人们可以回看最早几集节目就是在那里录制的。

I was back in The UK over Christmas, and I was back in my old house and I was in my old room, my old bedroom, which people can go back and watch the first episodes from the show ever were recorded in there.

我坐在沙发上，就是右边那张小沙发，手里拿着一部iPhone，天啊，那可能是六代、五代或者类似的型号。

And I'm sat on the couch, this little couch that's on the right hand side, and I've got this iPhone fucking it must be a six maybe or a five or something.

这简直是古老的技术。

It's ancient technology.

我突然意识到，这是唯一还能控制我家灯光的手机，因为飞利浦Hue系统当初就是连在这部手机上的。

And I realized it's the only phone that can still control the lights in my house because that was the one that the Philips Hue system had been connected to.

于是我坐在那儿，拼命跟这部十年前的iPhone较劲，想方设法让卧室的灯亮起来，而我刚飞完机。

So I'm there trying to fight with this decade old iPhone a desperate attempt to try and get the lights in my bedroom to turn on, and I've been flying.

我从考艾岛飞到了英国。

I flew from Kauai to The UK.

飞行时间长达二十八小时左右，差不多一天半，再加上十一个小时的时差。

It's twenty eight hours or something, basically a day and a half plus eleven hours of time change.

这简直是个噩梦。

It's a fucking nightmare.

我到家后，就开始跟这部手机较劲。

I get in, and then I'm battling with this phone.

在某些方面，这确实很烦人，但在另一些方面，却非常温馨且令人怀旧。

And in some ways, it was super annoying, but in other ways, it was really lovely and nostalgic.

所以，我尝试过一种相对简单、易于上手的方法，帮助人们减少使用手机的时间；另一个不错的解决方案是，如果你确实要使用旧手机，我想现在大多数人已经不用实体SIM卡了。

So, I've tried I think as a a pretty easy sort of low entry accessible way for people to spend less time on their phone, And a good a good solution here as well is if you do use the old phone, if you I guess people don't use physical SIM cards anymore.

但如果你把SIM卡移到那台允许带出家门的手机上，这意味着旧手机只能通过Wi-Fi工作。

But if you move the SIM to the one that you're allowed to take out of the house, what that actually means is that the old one only work the cocaine phone only works on WiFi.

是的。

Yeah.

这意味着如果你带着它出门，它就会停止工作，这固然很好，但你也把自己牢牢地束缚在了家里。

Which means that if you take it out with you, it stops working, which is, you know, great, but it it it you're cementing yourself, you're tethering yourself to your house.

我有个朋友曾经严重手机成瘾，他干脆彻底不用手机，只随身带一台笔记本电脑。

I have a friend who had a real phone addiction, and he had killed phone entirely and just carried a laptop with him.

所以每当他想打电话或做点什么时，都得打开笔记本电脑，这真是烦得要命，是的。

So when he wanted to call someone or do something, he'd have to open the laptop, and it was a real pain in the ass, Yeah.

这招确实管用，但这也算是那种非常极端的做法，就像戒酒互助会一样。

And it worked, but, yeah, that's kind of, that's real like AA.

这简直是走投无路了。

That's that's desperate times.

没错。

Correct.

另外一点是，你根本

Mean, the other thing is you don't

无法想象。

can't imagine.