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尼尔·埃亚尔,欢迎来到节目。
Nir Eyal, welcome to the show.
谢谢,克里斯。
Thanks, Chris.
很高兴再次回来。
Great to be back.
老兄,从2019年第104集到现在。
Dude, 2019, episode a 104 all the way to now.
从那以后你所有的成功,我都得记上一笔。
I'm gonna take credit for all your success since then.
确实是。
It was.
它是建立在
It was built on
那样可以吗?
a Was that okay?
我是你的幸运符吗?
Was I the lucky charm?
它确实是建立在你和不可摧毁的基础之上的。
It it was built on a foundation of you and indestructible.
完全正确。
That's exactly correct.
新书,全部关于信念。
New one, all about belief.
为什么信念如此重要?
Why is belief so important?
好的。
Okay.
信念实际上是我们看待世界的滤镜。
So beliefs turns out to be the lens with which we see the world.
我完全没想到,过去几年里出现的这些研究对我们日常生活的影响竟如此深远。
And I had no idea how profound this research that's been coming out over the past several years has on our day to day lives.
信念如何塑造我们所看到的,真正地塑造我们所看到的。
How beliefs shape what we see, literally shape what we see.
我可以给两个人看完全相同的图片,但他们看到的却是完全不同的东西。
I can show the same exact image to two different people, and they will see completely different things.
这被称为卡菲尔错觉。
It's called the Kafir illusion.
你可以看这张纸,我根据一个人的成长环境、过往经验和信念给他看,他会看到圆形。
You can look at this piece of paper, and I can show you it to one person based on where they grew up, and and their priors, their beliefs, and they'll see circles.
我再根据另一个人的成长环境给他看,他却会看到矩形。
I can show it to somebody else based on where they grew up, they'll see rectangles.
这太不可思议了。
It's incredible.
信念不仅以比喻的方式塑造你所见,而是真正地塑造了你所感知的现实。
Beliefs not only shape what you see, like not not just figuratively, but they actually shape reality that you see.
它们塑造了你的感受、内在状态,最重要的是,它们影响了你的行为。
They shape what you feel, your internal state, and most importantly, they affect what you do.
因此,一切皆源于这些信念,如果你的信念在主导你的生活,那你最好确保它们是正确的。
And so everything comes upstream from these beliefs, and so you better get these beliefs right if they're going to run your life.
我认为,当人们听到‘信念’这个词时,其中一个挑战是它很容易让人联想到罗达·拜恩和《秘密》的显化理论。
What I think one of the challenges people have when they hear the word belief is it gets perilously close to Rhonda Byrne, the secret manifestation.
你知道,你和我一样,都来自生产力背景,那种非常硬核、近乎枯燥的风格,强调框架和严格的结构。
You know, you've come from a productivity background, same as me, kind of hardcore, quite sterile almost in a way, very sort of frameworks, rigid structures.
信念这个话题听起来似乎有点轻浮随意。
Belief sounds very almost whimsical as a topic to get into.
你说得对,因为外面确实充斥着大量胡说八道的东西。
You know, that that is a great point because there is a lot of bullshit out there.
因此,我过去六年在《超越信念》这项研究中,正是想明确区分哪些有效、哪些无效。
And so part of what I wanted to do with this research that I've done over the past six years for Beyond Belief was to really separate what works and what doesn't.
坦白说,我得承认那群人说的很多东西确实有效,但并不是因为他们声称的那些理由。
And a lot of it, frankly, I'll give that crowd some credit, a lot of it works, but not for the reasons they say it does.
你知道,我不想扫大家的兴,但事实是,根本没有什么东西在振动、量子纠缠之类的,宇宙根本不在乎这些。
Like, you know, hate to burst anybody's bubble, but no, nothing is vibrating and quantum whatever ing and like the universe really doesn't give a shit.
并不是所有那些实现愿望的东西。
Is not, you know, all the manifesting stuff.
它可能在某种程度上有效,我也确实深入研究过,发现如果不正确地进行积极思考,反而可能产生非常负面的影响。
It can work kind of, and and I I do dive into some research around how it turns out positive thinking can have a very negative effect if you don't do it properly.
所以我想要破除一些这些迷思,但我也改变了对很多以前不做的东西的看法,以前我总是很注重科学依据。
So I kinda wanted to dispel some of those myths, and yet I've changed my mind about a lot of stuff that I didn't used to do, and I used to kind of You know, I'm very science backed.
你知道,我所有的书都有一页又一页的引用,来自同行评审的研究。
You know, all my books have pages and pages of citations to peer reviewed studies.
我必须看到研究,而不仅仅是‘它对我有用’,我需要看到同行评审的研究,证明它在受控实验中对其他人也有效。
I have to see the study, not just it worked for me, but I need to see the peer reviewed studies that show that it worked for others in a controlled study.
事实上,即使在学术界,也存在大量神话。
And so there's a lot of mythology out there, even in the academic community, to be honest.
有很多研究我一开始以为是金标准,但深入探究其方法论后,才发现它们其实也很糟糕。
There's a lot of studies that I look through that I thought were kind of, you know, gold standard studies, you kind of dig into how they were done methodologically, and you realize, oh, they're kind of crappy studies too.
因此,我花了大量时间去粗取精,弄清楚哪些东西真正可以实际应用到我们的生活中。
So it was a lot of sorting through the meat from the chaff to figure out what we can actually practically apply to our lives.
好消息是,过去几年涌现出大量令人难以置信的研究,彻底颠覆了我的认知。
The good news is there's a lot of unbelievable research that has come out over the past several years that just absolutely blew my mind.
例如,我们现在知道,即使你知道自己服用的是安慰剂,它依然有效——这一点以前我们并不清楚,对吧?
For example, one thing is that we now know that placebos work even when you know they're a placebo, which we didn't used to know before, right?
我们过去认为,安慰剂必须依赖某种欺骗机制,对吧?
We used to think that placebos had to have some kind of deception effect, right?
也就是说,在双盲对照试验中,开药的人和服药的人都不知道谁拿到了安慰剂。
That you had Both people, the person prescribing the medication in a double blind control study, had to not know who was receiving the placebo, and the person, of course, receiving it couldn't know if it was a placebo.
但事实证明,这并不正确,你依然可以获得惊人的效果。
Turns out that's not true, that you can get amazing effects.
哈佛大学的特德·卡普舒克在肠易激综合征患者身上证明了这一点。
Ted Kapschuk at Harvard showed this with IBS patients.
他给人们发放了一瓶明确标注着‘安慰剂’的药片。
He gave people a pill bottle that said placebos on it.
顺便说一句,今天你甚至可以在亚马逊上买到标注为安慰剂的药片,还有五星级评价,写着‘这个安慰剂见效太快了,太神奇了’。
By the way, you can go on Amazon today and buy placebo pills with five star reviews that say amazing how fast acting this placebo was.
这太不可思议了。
It's incredible.
他告诉人们:‘这是安慰剂。’
He told people, Hey, this is a placebo.
这是一种完全无活性的物质。
It is completely inert substance.
然而,研究表明它有助于缓解一些IBS患者的症状。
However, it has been shown to show, to help some people with symptoms of IBS.
结果发现,它的效果与主流药物一样好。
Turns out it performed just as well as the leading medication.
简直不敢相信。
No fucking way.
等等,故事还更有意思。
Only that, wait, the story gets better.
人们给医生打了电话。
People called up Doctor.
卡普丘克后来找到医生说:‘那个安慰剂药片对我的症状太有效了。’
Capchuk afterwards and said, Hey, that placebo pill was amazing for my symptoms.
我能再拿一些吗?
Can I get some more of those?
我想说,
I think Well,
你得确保用的是正确的安慰剂药片品牌,如果你换了成分,肠道微生物组就不会有反应。
you gotta it make sure it's the right brand of placebo pill if you change the strain, the gut microbiome won't respond.
但老兄,这真的太离谱了。
But I well, dude, it it is wild.
我记得看过一项研究,关于品牌布洛芬比自有品牌止痛药更有效。
I remember reading a study about branded ibuprofen being branded painkillers being more effective than own label painkillers.
你可别买CVS自有品牌的。
You don't wanna get the CVS owned brand.
你得选Nurofen那种,原因是一样的:尽管人们知道里面的成分、剂量完全一样。
You wanna get the the Nurofen version of it for the same reason that despite the fact that people know it's the precise same structure that's inside of there at the same dose.
就是大卫·罗布森所写的期望效应,我相信你对此很熟悉。
Just the the expectation effect that David Robson wrote about, which I'm sure you're familiar with.
这种效应在各个方面都存在。
Like, it's just across everything.
太疯狂了。
It's crazy.
那就是
That is that
这真是太不可思议了。
is that is wild.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
而且这种现象还在不断延续,而这只是冰山一角。
And it just goes on and on, and then this is just the tip of the iceberg.
所以,它不仅影响我们的身体,实际上还以多种方式让我们的生物学转化为信念,这比我以前认为的要复杂和实际得多。
So not only does it affect our our bodies, and in fact, how our our biology becomes our beliefs in many ways, It's it's much more nuanced and much more practical than I used to think.
你知道,很多人认为安慰剂有一种神奇的力量,能够治愈你。
That, you know, I think a lot of people think that there's some kind of, like, magic to placebos, and placebos can heal you.
事实证明,这并不完全正确,因为疾病和病痛是有区别的。
It turns out that's not really true, that, there's a difference between sickness and illness.
疾病是身体上的问题,某种生理紊乱、某种身体疾病,或者身体内部运作失常的状况。
Sickness is in the body, some kind of physical malady, some kind of physical disease, some kind of something that's not working properly in the body.
病痛则是对症状的心理感知。
Illness is the psychological perception of symptoms.
因此,当涉及到疾病时,安慰剂根本不起作用。
So placebos don't work at all when it comes to sickness.
但当涉及到病痛时,它们非常有效。
They're really effective when it comes to illness.
因此,你实际上可以实际运用许多这些工具,包括那些看起来像药物的东西,比如药片、注射、治疗和药水,还有各种仪式。
And so you can actually practically use many of these tools, both, you know, things that look like pharmaceuticals, like pills and injections and treatments and potions, but also rituals.
对吧?
Right?
所以,我这辈子第一次开始祈祷。
So for the first time in my life, I started to pray.
我从小以后就没再祈祷过,但现在我开始在生活中实践祈祷,因为它太神奇了。
I I didn't pray since I was a little kid, and now I started adopting prayer in my life because it's incredible.
你看,研究显示,经常祈祷的人寿命更长,更健康,更快乐,抑郁和焦虑的发生率也更低。
Like, if you look at the research, people who pray, they live longer, they are a lot healthier, they are happier, they have lower lower incidence of, depression and anxiety.
真正令人惊讶的是,研究显示,即使没有信仰,祈祷也能带来许多同样的益处。
Now what's really crazy is that turns out the studies show that you actually get a lot of the same benefits from prayer even without faith.
这真的让我大吃一惊。
And that really blew my mind.
我认为这正是我想在这里探讨的——这种危机、这种流行病,我认为我们正在目睹的孤独、疏离、焦虑等各种问题,都源于我们日益世俗化。
And I think this is exactly what I'm trying to address here, this this crisis, this epidemic, that I think we're seeing of loneliness, disconnection, anxiety, you know, all kinds of maladies, I think are coming from the the fact that we become more secular.
你知道,在美国,如今有百分之三十的美国人自称没有宗教信仰。
You know, in The States, thirty percent of Americans today identify as none.
这是美国最大的宗教群体,n-o-n-e,不是n-u-n,也不是天主教的none,而是n-o-n-e,指那些不隶属于任何宗教的人。
It's the largest religious group in America, n o n e, not n u n, not the Catholic none, but n o n e, people who don't affiliate with any religion.
事实上,其中许多人自称有灵性但不信教。
And in fact, many of them call themselves spiritual but not religious.
你可能已经听过很多次了。
You probably heard this a ton.
对吧?
Right?
你住在奥斯汀。
You're in Austin.
你身边有很多人自称有灵性但不信教。
You you have a lot of people around you who call themselves spiritual, not religious.
但这些人状况最差。
Well, those people are the worst off.
他们的焦虑和抑郁发病率高于其他群体。
They have the highest incidences of anxiety and depression disorder than other groups.
所以,如果你说自己是精神上但不信仰宗教的人,你比自称自由思想者、不可知论者,或者当然,比信仰宗教的人更容易遭受痛苦。
So you're you're more likely to suffer if you say you're spiritual and not religious than if you just say you're a freethinker or agnostic or, of course, if you are religious.
结果发现,通过将祈祷与仪式几乎当作安慰剂来使用,你也能获得许多同样的益处,这是我所发现的。
So it turns out you can get a lot of the same benefits, and this is what I discovered, by using prayer with ritual almost as a placebo.
也许你会像我一样,不再质疑我所说的一切是否必须像宗教领袖宣称的那样是绝对真实的,而是去践行那些已经存在了数千年的实际仪式。
Maybe you stop questioning even, as I did, whether I need it to be an absolute fact that everything I'm saying is actually true the way that the religious leader would say it, and rather just go about the actual rituals that have been around for thousands and thousands of years.
因此,这也是我在这段旅程中发现的一部分。
And so that's part of what I discovered on this journey as well.
你认为为什么精神上但不信仰宗教的人会有最差的结果?
What do you think is the reason for spiritual but not religious having the worst outcomes?
我认为这是因为人们失去了宗教赋予我们的基本准则。
I think that it loses the fundamental tenets of what religion gives us.
所以,你知道,我所经历的那段故事,应该说是我的旅程,是这样的:我去了,等等,让我先退一步。
So, you know, the story that I went on, journey that I went on, I should say, was that I went to well, let me back up a second.
让我告诉你是什么研究启发了我。
Let me tell you about the study that inspired this.
所以我读到一项研究,该研究将人们召到实验室,其中一组是宗教且有灵性的人,他们有信仰实践,相信某种更高的力量或超自然存在。
So I read this study that showed that they called people into the lab, and they had a group that was religious and spiritual, people who had a faith practice that believed in some kind of higher power, some kind of supernatural.
他们还有一组完全不具有灵性、没有任何信仰传统的人。
And they also had a group of people who were not spiritual at all, didn't have any faith tradition.
然后他们设置了一个对照组,教那些没有信仰传统的人如何祈祷。
And then they had a control group, And they taught the the people who didn't have a faith tradition how to pray.
对于对照组,他们说:你们想怎么做就怎么做。
And the control group, they said, do whatever you want.
后来,他们把这些参与者再次带到实验室,让所有三组人把手放进非常冷的水中。
They brought those people later on into a a lab later on, and they asked all three groups to put their hand inside very cold water.
这其实是一种标准的评估方法。
Now this is kind of a standard assessment.
这是一种耐痛测试。
It's a pain tolerance test.
我们观察你能坚持多久,忍受那种极其寒冷、几乎结冰的水。
And we see how long you can last in that very, very, very cold, almost freezing water.
他们还测量了面部扭曲、各种表情,以及你是否提及疼痛。
And they also measure, like, facial grimaces and, you know, different expressions, and if you say anything about the pain.
所以他们在测量你的疼痛耐受度,以及你能坚持多久待在水里。
So they're measuring your pain tolerance and how long you can finally stay in the water.
毫不意外,那些有信仰祈祷习惯的人,坚持的时间比对照组长得多。
Well, no surprise, the people who prayed, who had a faith based prayer practice, they lasted much longer than the control group.
但即使是那些被教会如何祈祷、却没有信仰背景的人,只要他们能用其他有意义的词替代,比如宇宙、万物之力、大自然,他们的疼痛耐受度也高于对照组。
But even the people who were taught how to pray, who did not have a faith background, if they could substitute some other word, okay, the universe, the sum of all forces, mother nature, something that was meaningful to them, they also had higher pain tolerance than the control group.
这让我非常着迷,于是我拜访了五位宗教领袖。
And so this fascinated me, and so I went to five religious leaders.
这听起来像是一个笑话的开头,但事情确实就是这样发生的。
And this is gonna sound like the setup of a of a joke, but this is exactly what happened.
我去找了一位拉比、一位伊玛目、一位神父、一位僧人和一位斯瓦米,向他们所有人提出了同一个问题。
I went to a rabbi, an imam, a priest, a monk, and a swami, and I asked them all the same question.
如果你对上帝心存疑虑,你该如何祈祷?
How do you pray even if you have doubts about God?
我从他们每个人那里学到了一些实践方法,我认为任何人都可以使用,无论你是否相信超自然力量。
And I took away from each of them practices that I think anyone can use, whether you have a belief in the supernatural or not.
如果你确实相信超自然力量,那再好不过了。
If you do have a faith in the supernatural, that's fantastic.
结果发现,我和其他很多人一样,都错过了很多,因为我总想等到完全确信宗教所说的每一句话后才去祈祷。
Turns out that a lot of us, I, was missing out because I wanted to have the facts that I'm not gonna pray unless I absolutely believe exactly what the religion says.
但现在,我已经放下了这种执念。
And now I've been able to release that.
现在,每当我经过一处宗教场所——无论是教堂、清真寺还是犹太会堂——只要他们允许我进去,我就会走进去祈祷。
That now every time I go by a place of worship, whether it's a church or a mosque or a synagogue, if they'll have me inside, I go in and pray.
这不需要任何成本,却能帮助我重新集中注意力,让我心怀感恩,有时还能让我融入一个社群。
And it doesn't cost me anything, and it helps me refocus, it helps me become grateful, and it sometimes engages me in a community.
宗教所教导的这些实践方法,我们其实已经渐渐遗忘了。
All these practices that religion teaches have kind of escaped us.
顺便说一句,有趣的是,如果你不问的话,你知道为什么有人自称‘有灵性但不信教’,却会带来这些负面结果吗?
By the way, and interesting, if not you ask, you know, why is spiritual but not religious, why does that have these negative outcomes?
在这一点上,并非每个国家都一样。
Not every country is the same when it comes to that regard.
事实上,我几周前刚从日本回来,在日本,情况恰恰相反。
In fact, in Japan, I just got back from Japan a few weeks ago, in Japan it's the exact opposite.
他们是宗教的,但不是灵性的。
They are religious but not spiritual.
日本人一定会去神社。
So the Japanese, they absolutely will go to the Shinto shrines.
他们会去佛教寺庙。
They'll go to the Buddhist temples.
他们会进行所有仪式,但当你真正问他们:你真的相信超自然的泛灵论吗?
They do all the rituals, but when you actually ask them, do you actually you know, do you really have faith in the supernatural animism?
其实并没有。
You know, not really.
没那么强烈。
Not not so much.
但他们确实会进行这些仪式,并从中获得所有这些心理上的益处。
But they do the ritual, and they have they they gain all these psychological benefits that that come from it.
这太有趣了。
That's so interesting.
这太棒了。
That is so cool.
我可以想象,很多人会觉得,唉,这简直快要变成空想主义了。
I I can imagine a lot of people thinking, ugh, this is perilously close to wishful thinking.
你是在让人自我欺骗,去看见它、相信它、祈愿它、实现它,却根本不需要付出任何实际行动。
You're asking people to, like, delusion themselves into see it, believe it, wish it, achieve it, but don't actually have to do anything about it.
要在做一个脚踏实地、有行动力、希望推动事情发生的人,同时又不依赖太多幻觉和随意的想法之间,找到平衡,这简直是在圆一个方。
Square square the circle of being a pretty grounded, agentic guy who wants to make things happen and realizes that you need to row the boat with not wanting to rely too much on delusion and whimsy.
完全正确。
Totally.
那么,我们来分别讨论这些问题。
So, okay, let's address those separately.
首先,你已经在自我欺骗了。
So, first of all, you're already gaslighting yourself.
你已经处于幻觉之中了。
You're already delusional.
事实上,我们没有人真正看到现实的本来面目。
In fact, none of us actually see reality as it is.
我们怎么知道这一点呢?
How do we know this?
大脑每秒正在接收大约1100万比特的信息。
The brain is absorbing about 11,000,000 bits of information per second.
所以现在,当你在听我说话时,你的大脑实际上正在接收1100万比特的信息——包括我的声音传入你的耳朵、光线进入你的眼球、房间的温度等等。
So right now, listening to my voice, your brain is actually taking in 11,000,000 bits of information, the sound of my voice in your ears, the light entering your eyeballs, the temperature of the room.
你的大脑实际上正在接收所有这些信息,共1100万比特。
Your brain is actually absorbing all this, 11,000,000 bits of information.
但意识处理的能力仅限于大约50比特的信息。
But conscious processing only has the capacity for about 50 bits of information.
所以,1100万位的信息,换个说法,这就像每秒读两遍《战争与和平》。
So 11,000,000 bits of information, to put that in perspective, that's like reading War and Peace twice every second.
明白吗?
Okay?
海量的信息。
Tremendous amount of information.
50位信息大约相当于每秒处理一句话的信息量。
50 bits of information is about one sentence of information per second.
所以是50位对比1100万位。
So 50 bits versus 11 bits.
你接收到的信息中,只有百分之零点零零零零四五是你能真正吸收的。
That's point zero zero zero zero four five percent of the information you're receiving are you able to absorb.
大脑根本无法应对这么多信息,那它该怎么办呢?
The brain just can't deal with it, so what does it do?
它不得不使用我们所说的预测性处理。
It has to use what we call predictive processing.
它看到的不是现实的本来面目,而是它预期中的样子,克里斯。
It doesn't see reality as it is, it sees reality as it expects it to, Chris,
出现。
appear.
就是这样,对吧?
There you go, right?
按照你预期的样子出现,按照你预期的样子存在。
As you expect it to appear, as you expect it to be.
你怎么知道下一个词就是那个?
How did you know that that was the next word?
因为你的大脑根据我们所说的‘先验’——也就是你过去的经历和信念——预测了它。
Because your brain predicted it based on what we call priors, based on your prior experience, your prior beliefs.
因此,基于这些因素,你看到的并不是此刻真实存在的现实,而是基于预测的现实。
And so based on those factors, you are seeing reality not as it actually is in the second, you're seeing it based on a prediction.
所以,你早已生活在一个模拟之中。
So you're already living in a simulation.
我们所生活的并不是像电影里那样的矩阵。
It's not the matrix that we all live in, not like the movie.
我们每个人在每一刻都活在自己头脑中的模拟世界里。
We all live in our own simulation inside our own heads at every single second.
我们没有意识到的是,我们的信念已经通过所谓的限制性信念在欺骗我们。
Now, what we don't realize is that our beliefs are already deluding us through what we call limiting beliefs.
这些信念会削弱你的动力,让你误入歧途,事后常常感到后悔,对吧?
These are beliefs that sap your motivation and delude you into doing things that oftentimes you later regret, right?
我不是早起的人。
I'm not a morning person.
我太老了。
I'm too old.
我太年轻了。
I'm too young.
我太胖了。
I'm too fat.
我太瘦了。
I'm too thin.
太晚了。
It's too late.
我没时间。
I have no time.
对吧?
Right?
像这些我们不断告诉自己的限制性信念,其实都是一种幻觉。
Like, all these limiting beliefs that we tell ourselves all the time, they're already a delusion.
你已经在对自己进行心理操控了。
You're already gaslighting yourself.
我所倡导的、我发现的是,你其实可以选择自己的信念,因为信念并不是事实。
What I'm advocating for, what I've discovered, is that you can actually choose your beliefs Because beliefs are not facts.
明白吗?
Okay?
事实是另外一回事。
Facts are something different.
事实被定义为客观真理。
Facts are defined as objective truths.
明白吗?
Okay?
无论你是否相信,它都是真的。
It's something that's true whether you believe it or not.
地球更接近于一个球体,而不是平的。
The world is more like a sphere than it is flat.
抱歉,地平论者,这有一个事实。
Sorry, flat earth, there is a fact.
在光谱的另一端,是我们所说的信仰。
On the opposite end of the spectrum is what we call faith.
信仰是一种不需要证据的信念。
Faith is a conviction that does not require evidence.
明白吗?
Okay?
死后会发生什么,上帝奖赏义人,这些都是信仰的问题。
What happens in the afterlife, God rewards the righteous, these are matters of faith.
不需要证据。
Do not require evidence.
你觉得这是同一谱系的两个极端吗?
Do you see these as kind of two opposite ends of the same spectrum?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
因为这是唯一的
Because of the One
一个需要100%证据,另一个则完全不需要任何证据。
that requires a 100% evidence and one that doesn't require any evidence at all.
好的。
Okay.
太棒了。
Cool.
没错。
That's right.
而在中间是一种信念。
Now in the middle is a belief.
信念是一种基于证据可以修正的坚定看法。
A belief is a conviction that is open to revision based on evidence.
因此,你可以选择自己的信念。
So you can choose your beliefs.
这些信念塑造了你所看到的、所感受到的以及所做的事情。
And these beliefs shape what you see, what you feel, and what you do.
我们带着这些信念,仿佛它们是终极真理,仿佛它们就是事实。
And we carry them around as if they are ultimate truths, as if they are facts.
我认为,我们绝大多数的个人问题、人际问题和政治问题,都源于我们把那些所谓的‘真理’和‘事实’视为不可改变的,而实际上,它们大多数只是信念,正是这些信念引导着我们的生活。
I think the vast majority of our personal problems, our interpersonal problems, our political problems come from the fact that we see these truths, these facts, as immutable when really most of them are beliefs, and those are the beliefs that guide our life.
如果你想想我们不得不做的那些决定。
If you think about the decisions we have to make.
我该搬到这座城市吗?
Should I move to this city?
我该接受这份工作吗?
Should I take this job?
我该和这个人交往吗?
Should I date this person?
所有这些问题都基于信念,而不是事实。
All of these questions are based on beliefs, not facts.
我们无法对这些问题的答案拥有绝对的确定性。
We don't have perfect certainty about answering these questions.
它们都基于信念。
They're based on beliefs.
因此,如果我们退后一步,就能第一次观察到自己的信念,对我们大多数人来说都是如此,因为你无法看到自己那些限制性的信念。
And so if we take a step back, we can observe our beliefs for the first time for most of us because you can't see your own limiting beliefs.
这就像你的脸。
It's like your face.
对吧?
Right?
你无法看到自己的脸,即使你整天都带着它,除非你照镜子。
You can't see your face, even though you have it all day long, unless you look at the mirror.
所以,除非我们坐下来观察:这些限制性的信念究竟在哪些方面拖累了我,否则你根本不会意识到自己拥有这些限制性信念。
So unless we sit down and observe what are these limiting beliefs holding me back, you don't even know you have these limiting beliefs.
当然,你能看到别人的限制性信念。
Of course, can see everyone else's limiting beliefs.
我打赌,你认识的每一个人,你都能说出他们的限制性信念是什么。
I bet you every single person you know well, you could probably say, oh, I know that person's limiting beliefs.
你就是看不到自己的限制性信念。
You just can't see your own limiting beliefs.
所以我们必须停下来,把它们拿出来,弄清楚它们是在帮助我,还是在伤害我?
So that's why we have to pause, take them out, and figure out, are they serving me or are they hurting me?
对我来说,最重要的是,也是我过去几年做这项研究后彻底改变我生活的观点:我不断提醒自己,信念是工具,而不是真理。
So the big for me, and what's absolutely changed my life over the past years that I've done this research, is this, is that I constantly remind myself that beliefs are tools, not truths.
信念是工具,而不是真理。
Beliefs are tools, not truths.
你可以使用它们,一旦它们不再对你有用,就可以像木匠一样把它们放下。
You can use them, and once they don't serve you, you can put them down like a carpenter.
木匠不会说,哦,锤子。
A carpenter doesn't say, oh, a hammer.
锤子是唯一真正的工具。
Hammer is the one and only true tool.
不。
No.
木匠会说,有时候我用锤子,有时候我用锯子,有时候我用扳手。
A carpenter says sometimes I use a hammer, sometimes I use a saw, sometimes I use a wrench.
你会根据工作选择合适的工具,就像你可以放下那些旧信念,拿起新的信念一样。
And you use the right tool for the job, just like you can put down those old beliefs, pick up new ones.
是证据先出现,还是信念先出现?
What comes first, evidence or belief?
证据。
Evidence.
因为我们的所有信念都基于过去的经验。
Because, all of our beliefs are based on past experiences.
所以,如果你把证据定义为过去的经历作为先验,那么是的,它们在某种程度上源自我们的过去经验。
So if you're defining evidence as past experiences as priors, then, yeah, they come from from our past experiences in some way.
明白了。
Okay.
在这种情况下,我们如何才能摆脱‘这只是我过去的模式’这种思维?
In that case, how how do we get escape velocity from just this is a pattern from my past?
我希望拥有一个不一定与之相关的信念。
I want a belief that isn't necessarily associated with that.
我过去一直难以坚持去健身房。
I, have struggled to maintain going to the gym in the past.
因此,我属于那种不能持续去健身房的人。
Therefore, I am the sort of person who doesn't really go to the gym consistently.
这似乎是一条死胡同。
That seems to be a dead end.
对吧?
Right?
如果我们所有的信念都基于过去的模式,而这些模式就是证据,那么除非我们改变模式,否则信念也无法改变。
If our beliefs are based on past patterns and that is the evidence and that's well, until we change the pattern, the belief can't change.
对吗?
Is that right?
嗯,我们
Well, we
我们可以认识到,这些都不是自然法则,它们只是存在于我们的思维中。
can we can recognize that none of these things are laws of nature, that they're up here.
对吧?
Right?
我们是在编造这些说法。
That we are making these up.
所以当我们说‘我是那种……’的时候,你应该亮起大红灯。
So when we say I'm the kind of person who, you should have a big red flag.
顺便说一句,对别人也是如此。
By the way, also with other people.
我们看别人,就像我们看不到现实的真实面貌一样。
We don't see other people, just like we don't see reality as it really is.
我们看不到别人本来的样子。
We don't see other people as they really are.
我们看到的是我们对人的信念。
We see our beliefs about people.
有趣的是,你越了解一个人,就越能看到他们的信念,这就是为什么如果你有过这种经历——总是这样:我遇到一个人,他们对我特别好,但当他们的家人出现时,他们对家人却简直是个混蛋。
And it's interesting, the more you know somebody, the more you see their beliefs, which is why it makes don't if you've had this experience, had this all time, where I'll meet somebody and they'll be so nice to me, and then their family member will come around and they're absolute schmucks to their family member.
他们对待他们就像垃圾一样。
They treat them like garbage.
我经常看到这种情况,因为往往是我们最熟悉的人,我们会说:‘她总是这样’,或者‘这太像他了’。
I see that all the time because it tends to be the people we know best that we say, Oh, she always does that, or That's so like him.
我们因为如何看待他人,以及如何看待自己,而开始构建这些人的刻板形象。
And we start building these effigies of people because of how we see them, and of course how we see ourselves.
那我们该如何应对这种情况呢?
So what do we do about this?
这里有什么实用的建议吗?
What's the practical tip here?
我们要寻找生活中那些反复陷入困境的领域。
We look for the areas of our life where we consistently get stuck.
那个已经存在很久的元旦决心。
The New Year's resolution that has been there for ages.
我们生活中无法摆脱的痛苦和折磨,我甚至指的是最极端的痛苦。
The pain and suffering in our life that we can't seem to escape, and I'm talking even the most extreme types of pain.
我做过一项关于催眠麻醉的惊人研究,比如有些人身体被切开时,完全不用任何麻醉剂就能承受。
I did this amazing research on hypno sedation, like people who literally have scaples opening their bodies, and they can do it without any anesthesia whatsoever.
慢性疼痛,对吧?
Chronic pain, right?
有些人通过信念的力量克服了慢性疼痛、纤维肌痛等问题。
People who have overcome chronic pain, fibromyalgia, all through the power of beliefs.
所以我们需要寻找那些反复出现、总让我们陷入困境的问题,而深入探究后,通常会发现这些是限制性信念。
So where we look for, we look for these reoccurring problems that we seem to get stuck on, and that's where we look for underneath what we find are typically these limiting beliefs.
然后我们有一个流程来处理接下来该怎么做。
And then we have a process to what do we do next with them?
本集由Whoop赞助播出。
This episode is brought to you by Whoop.
我已经佩戴Whoop五年多了,早在它成为节目赞助商之前我就在用了。
I have been wearing Whoop for over five years now, way before they were a partner on the show.
根据这款应用的记录,我已经追踪了自己1600多天的生活数据,这简直不可思议。
I've actually tracked over sixteen hundred days of my life with it according to the app, which is insane.
这是我唯一坚持使用的可穿戴设备,因为它追踪了所有重要的数据:睡眠、锻炼、恢复、呼吸、心率,甚至步数。
And it's the only wearable I've ever stuck with because it tracks everything that matters, sleep, workouts, recovery, breathing, heart rate, even your steps.
而最新的5.0版本是迄今为止最好的版本。
And the new five point o is the best version.
你依然能获得让Whoop不可或缺的所有功能,体积缩小了7%,但电池续航延长至14天,并新增了HealthSpan功能,用于追踪你的生活习惯如何影响你的衰老速度。
You get all the benefits that make Whoop indispensable, 7% smaller, but now it's also got a 14 battery life and has HealthSpan to track your habits, how they affect your pace of aging.
它还为女性提供了激素洞察功能。
It's got hormonal insights for ladies.
我是Whoop的超级粉丝。
I'm a huge, huge fan of Whoop.
这就是为什么它是唯一一款我坚持使用的可穿戴设备。
That's why it's the only wearable that I've ever stuck with.
最重要的是,你可以免费加入。
And best of all, you can join for free.
你无需支付任何费用即可获得全新的Whoop 5.0腕带,首月免费,还提供30天无理由退款保障。
Pay nothing for the brand new Whoop five point o strap, plus you get your first month for free, and there's a thirty day money back guarantee.
所以你可以免费购买它。
So you can buy it for free.
免费试用一下。
Try it for free.
如果你在29天后不喜欢,他们会全额退款。
If you do not like it after twenty nine days, they just give you your money back.
现在,你可以通过下方描述中的链接或访问 join.whoop.com/modernwisdom 来获取全新的 Whoop 5.0 设备以及这30天试用服务。
Right now, you can get the brand new Whoop five point o and that thirty day trial by going to the link in the description below or heading to join.whoop.com/modernwisdom.
网址是 join.whoop.com/modernwisdom。
That's join.whoop.com/modernwisdom.
传统的行为、动机和改变观念有什么问题?
What's wrong with the traditional view of behavior, motivation, and change?
比如,如果缺乏信念,动机就会崩溃,为什么大多数效率系统完全忽略了这一层?
Like, what if motivation collapses without belief, why do most productivity systems just ignore that layer entirely?
信念是成功的根本。
Like, belief is the root of success.
为什么我们没有被教导去像培养自律那样培养信念呢?
Why aren't we taught to build it like we do with discipline?
因为我们对动机的理解方式是不完整的。
Because mode the the way we think of motivation, I think, is is incomplete.
我们把动机理解为传统的经济概念,认为它完全依赖于激励,是一种线性关系:如果我想获得某种行为的好处,就会去做这个行为来获得回报。
That we think of motivation in the traditional economic sense, that it's all about incentives, that it's kind of a straight line, that if I want the benefit of a behavior, then I'll do the behavior to get the benefit.
对吧?
Right?
这就像经典模式,我们发工资的方式就是这样。
It's classic like, that's how we pay salaries.
对吧?
Right?
如果你完成了工作职责,你就能拿到薪水。
If you if you do the job description, you get the salary.
但显然还缺少了什么。
But there's something clearly missing.
动机不是一条直线。
Motivation is not a straight line.
动机是一个三角形。
Motivation is a triangle.
你的一边是行为。
You have behavior on one side.
这是我需要做的事。
Here's what I need to do.
然后是收益。
Then you have the benefit.
这是我想要做的原因。
Here's why I wanna do it.
但缺失的、将整个三角形维系在一起的是信念。
But the thing missing, holding the whole thing together, the triangle together, is belief.
如果我不相信结果,比如,我为一个我认为并不为我着想的老板工作,我不相信自己会得到晋升,也不相信会加薪,因为我根本不信任我的老板,我不相信他们,我就得不到那个收益,于是我对这个收益也失去了信任。
That if I don't believe in the outcome so for example, if I'm working for a boss who I don't think has my best interest at heart, but I don't believe I'm gonna get that promotion, don't believe I'm gonna get that raise because I don't trust my boss, I don't believe in them, I'm not gonna get the benefit, and so I lose trust in that benefit.
更有可能的情况,也是我经常看到的每个人都会遇到的问题,就是对自己能否执行该行为缺乏信心,对吧?
Much more likely, and what I see is quite often the case for all, for everyone, is a lack of belief in myself to do the behavior, right?
无论出于什么原因,我不相信自己能做那件事,一旦失去信心,不再相信自己,我就不会去采取行动。
That for whatever reason, I don't trust myself to do that thing, and if I lose faith, if I lose the belief in myself, then I also won't do the behavior.
因此,为了让动机长期持续下去——我们知道,持久力是关键特质,持久力和适应力是实现目标最重要的两个特质——除非你不仅相信自己所做的事情,也相信其带来的好处,否则你终将放弃。
So for for for motivation to persist over the long term, and we know that persistence is this defining trait, persistence and adaptability, two most important traits in achieving your goals, you will quit unless you have not only the the the belief in what you are doing and the belief in the benefit.
正是这些因素将一切维系在一起。
That's what holds it all together.
我认为,这往往是被忽视的一环。
And I think that that's a piece that's oftentimes missing.
我想,还有就是,
I guess as well,
我们最初对信念所持有的认知是,它似乎并不完全掌握在我们自己手中。
the set point that we're coming into this with around belief is it doesn't feel quite as in our hands.
它不像那种我们可以主动设计的东西,因为归根结底,它离自律、生产力系统和实现目标的五个步骤都更远。
It doesn't it doesn't feel like the sort of thing that we can engineer because, again, it it is further away from the the discipline, the productivity system, the five steps to get you there.
你能塑造信念吗?
Can you engineer belief?
这可能是很多人想问的问题,我希望自己能相信它。
Is a question that probably a lot of people have I wish I could believe in it.
是的。
Yeah.
但他们一直为此挣扎。
But they've struggled with it.
所以,是的,我认为我们带着之前的一些概念惯性进入了这个话题。
So, yeah, I think we've got a bit of conceptual inertia coming in from where we were previously.
对我来说,有趣的部分就在于,你可以尝试各种疯狂的信念,它们听起来总是很荒谬。
To me, that's that's the fun part, is that you can try on the craziest beliefs, and they always sound crazy.
无论那种解放性的信念是什么,它听起来总是很荒谬,因为我们太钟爱自己的限制性信念了。
Whatever that liberating belief is, it always sounds ridiculous because we love our limiting beliefs.
它们曾经为我们服务过。
They served us at one point.
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它们让人感到安慰。
They're comforting.
我们不需要改变,也不愿看到其他可能的方式。
We don't have to change, and we don't wanna see any other potential way.
我会分享我做类似练习时的经历,这与我跟妈妈的亲密关系有关。
And I'll share what happened to me doing a similar exercise, And this has to do with a very personal relationship with my mom.
她不久前过了生日,七十四岁,我给她打了电话,想为她做点好事,所以想给她买些花。
She had her birthday not that long ago, her seventy fourth, and I called her and I wanted to do something nice for her, so I wanted to get her some flowers.
问题是,我当时在新加坡,而她住在佛罗里达中部——我长大的地方。
Problem was, I was in Singapore at the time, she was in Central Florida where I grew up.
我想做点特别的,于是熬到凌晨一点,打电话给花店,确保找到一家评价好、能准时送达、尽管佛罗里达天气炎热也不会让花枯萎、能顺利送达的花店。
And I wanted to do something special, so I stayed up till one in the morning, calling up florists, making sure that I found the right one, that had good reviews, that they could get there in time, that despite the Florida heat, wouldn't, you know, they wouldn't shrivel, that they would get there.
我凌晨一点上床睡觉,拍拍自己的肩膀,对自己说:‘好了,干得不错,尼尔。’
I went to sleep, 1AM, I patted myself on the shoulder, I said, okay, good job, Nir.
你做到了。
You you did it.
你是个好儿子。
You're a good son.
是的。
Mhmm.
第二天早上我给妈妈打了电话,说:嘿,生日快乐。
And I called my mom up the next morning, and I said, hey, happy birthday.
你收到花了吗?
Did you get the flowers?
她说:收到了,非常感谢。
And she says, yes, thank you very much.
我收到了花,但你应该知道,花都快死了,以后真的别再从这家订了。
I got the flowers, but you should know that they were half dead, and you really shouldn't order from them anymore.
我脱口而出一句我13岁时会说的话。
To which I blurted out something that I would have said when I was 13.
我说了类似这样的话:好吧,这将是最后一次我给你买花。
I said something to the effect of, well, that's the last time I ever buy you flowers.
而且,克里斯,这件事的反响正如你所想的那样糟糕。
And, Chris, that went over about as well as you think.
根本就没顺利。
It didn't go over very well at all.
通话结束后,我妻子转向我,说:嘿,你想不想扭转一下局面?
Now, after the call, my wife turned to me and she said, hey, do you wanna do a turnaround on this?
我说:老实说,我根本不想扭转局面。
And I said, like, I definitely did not want to do the turnaround.
这种莫名其妙、花里胡哨、矫情做作的东西,我不需要。
This mumbo jumbo, you know, hocus pocus, touchy feely crap, I didn't need that.
我只是想发泄一下。
I wanted to vent.
我想告诉她,我妈妈为什么太过苛刻,我想让她让我尽情发泄。
I wanted to tell her why my mom was being way too judgmental, and, I wanted her to let me vent.
但研究显示,发泄根本没用,它只会固化你对他人已有的看法和信念。
Well, turns out the research shows that venting does not work, that venting does nothing but cement the vision that you have of people, the beliefs that you have about people.
这只会让它们更加鲜明。
It just makes them more more vivid.
所以我们知道,发泄根本没用,尽管这通常是普遍的建议。
So venting, we know, does not work, even though that's kind of the conventional advice.
所以你得释放压力。
So you have to blow steam.
你得说出你真实的想法。
You have to say how you really feel.
别憋着不说。
Don't hold things back.
结果发现,这其实并不怎么样。
Turns out, it's not so great.
我当时就知道这一点,所以我做了一次这种反转。
I knew that at the time, and so I did one of these turnarounds.
于是我拿出这四个问题,从你知道的,那个信念是什么开始。
So I took out these four questions, and I started with, you know, what is the belief?
这个信念非常明确,我把它写了下来:我妈妈太爱评判人,而且很难取悦。
The belief was, very clearly, I wrote it down, my mother is too judgmental and hard to please.
明白吗?
Okay?
现在第一个问题,就像我们刚才对你做的那样:这是真的吗?
Now the first question, like we just did with you, is it true?
当然了,克里斯,你站在我这边,对吧?
Obviously, Chris, you're on my side here, right?
对吧?
Right?
我妈妈?哪个妈妈不会感谢儿子送的花呢?
My mother What mother doesn't thank their son for their flowers?
谁这么说的?
Who says that?
很明显,她太爱评判人,而且很难取悦。
Clearly, she was too judgmental and hard to please.
当然,这是真的。
Absolutely, it was true.
第二个问题,这绝对是真的吗?
Second question, is it absolutely true?
意思是,除了我的信念之外,没有其他可能的解释了吗?
Meaning, is there no other possible explanation other than my belief?
老实说,也许有。
Well, if I'm honest, maybe.
好吧。
Okay.
随便吧。
Whatever.
也许还有别的解释。
Maybe there's another explanation.
好吧。
Okay.
我不想去想那个解释可能是什么,但也许吧。
I don't wanna think about what that explanation could be, but perhaps.
那么第三个问题是,当我持有这个信念时,我是谁?
Then the the third question, who am I when I hold this belief?
当我相信我母亲太爱评判且难以取悦时,我就有点像个混蛋。
Well, when I believe my mother is too judgmental and hard to please, I'm kind of a jerk.
我爱评判别人。
I'm judgmental.
我脾气暴躁。
I'm short-tempered.
我不是真正的我。
I'm not myself.
我对自己的所作所为感到羞愧。
I'm embarrassed about what I do.
那么第四个问题是,如果没有这个信念,我会是谁?
And then the fourth question is who would I be without that belief?
如果我坦诚一点,我会快乐得多。
And if if I'm honest, I would be much happier.
如果真有一根魔法棒,能让我把这种信念从脑子里抹去,那就好了。
If there was a magic wand and I could erase that belief from my head, that'd be great.
我就不会那么爱评判人了。
I wouldn't be so judgmental.
我会做回我自己。
I'd I'd be me.
然后我做了这个反转。
And then I did this turnaround.
于是我拿这个信念——我妈妈太爱评判人、很难取悦——来做了反转。
So I took that belief, my mother is too judgmental and hard to please, and I I turned it around.
我问自己:完全相反的情况会不会也是真的?
I asked myself, could the exact opposite be true?
听起来很荒谬,但你的问题是:如果我们根本不相信某件事,我们怎么可能相信它呢?
Ridiculous as that sounds, I mean, to your question, how do we possibly believe something if we just don't believe something?
我们把事实和信念混淆了。
We're confusing facts with belief.
这是否真实并不重要。
It doesn't matter if it's true.
这就是我们的做法,来回答你的问题。
That's how we do it, to answer your question.
那么这其中可能有真相吗?
So is there any possible truth in it?
会不会有一种可能,我母亲并没有那么爱评判人,也不难取悦?
Could it could there possibly be a way that my mother was not being too judgmental and hard to please?
我思考了几分钟,不得不承认,也许她只是想帮我省钱。
Thought about it for a few minutes, and I had to admit, maybe she was just trying to save me some money.
也许她只是不想让我被这家花店骗了。
Maybe she just didn't want me to be scammed from this florist.
所以,好吧,这可能是真的。
So, okay, that could be true.
可能还有别的解释。
There might be another explanation.
然后我又做了另一个反转。
Then I did another turnaround.
我太爱评判了,也很难取悦。
I am too judgmental and hard to please.
这可能是真的吗?
Could that be true?
我太爱评判了,也很难取悦?
I am too judgmental and hard to please?
嗯,我确实在心里,当我给她打电话时,内心剧本里要求过:嘿。
Well, I kinda did demand in my head, in the script of when I called her and said, hey.
生日快乐。
Happy birthday.
花怎么样?
How are the flowers?
我已经在心里预设了她应该如何回应。
I had already scripted out exactly the way I wanted her to respond.
我希望她能热情地表达感谢。
I wanted her to say effusive thanks.
当她没有那样做时,我彻底崩溃了。
And when she didn't do that, I lost it.
那么,谁才是那个苛刻又难以取悦的人呢?
So who was being judgmental and hard to please?
是我。
Me.
然后是第三次反转,我不是在说我的母亲太苛刻、难以取悦。
And then the third turnaround, I was being not my mother is too judgmental and hard to please.
而是我对自己太过苛刻、难以取悦。
I am being too judgmental and hard to please towards myself.
真正发生的事其实正是这样——尽管我根本不想接受这个事实,但当花没有按照我期望的方式送达时,我把它当成对我能力的否定,认为自己做错了事,搞砸了。
That really what was happening, this actually turned out to be the most true, even though I did not want to accept it at all, was that when the flowers didn't arrive exactly the way I wanted them to, I took that as a statement on my competency, that I had done something wrong, that I messed up.
所以,实际上,是我对自己太过苛刻和难以取悦。
So really, was being too judgmental and hard to please towards myself.
现在,当你抛开这四个信念——原来的信念和这三个新的信念——这三个新信念听起来简直荒谬至极。
Now, when you take out those four beliefs, the original belief and these three new ones, those three new ones sounded absolutely ridiculous.
我一开始并不想接受它们。
I did not want to accept them at first.
但关于我母亲太过苛刻和难以取悦的这个最初信念,只给我留下了一个应对的办法。
But that first belief of my mother's true judgmental and hard to please only left me with one option to get through it.
她必须改变,我才能快乐。
She had to change in order for me to be happy.
而且,就像你举的关于生活必须改变的例子一样,这确实很难。
And, you know, like with your example around life having to change, it's pretty tough.
对吧?
Right?
让她改变根本是不可能的。
For her to change was not a possibility.
至少现在我有了其他选择。
Now at least I had other options.
那我开始做什么了呢?
So what did I start doing?
我开始尝试接受这些信念。
I started trying on those beliefs for size.
你知道的,持续了一周。
You know, for a week.
好的。
Okay.
我试着从‘我对自己太苛刻、太难取悦’这个角度去看,突然间,压在身上的重担消失了。
I'm going to take that perspective of that I was being too judgmental and hard to please, and all of a sudden, this weight was lifted.
我不必再相信那些了。
Like, I didn't have to believe that anymore.
我不必再坚持这些标准了,因为我根本没意识到自己一直在用这些标准要求自己,而一旦意识到,我就变得更有耐心了。
I didn't have to have these standards, because I didn't even see I was holding myself to those standards, and all of sudden I did become more patient.
我对妈妈变得更好了。
I did become nicer to my mom.
我成为了更好的人,更接近我想成为的样子。
I was a better I was more of the person that I wanted to be.
所以,改变这些信念的方法是把另一种信念当作实验来尝试。
And so the way you change these beliefs is you try on a different belief as an experiment.
就试着穿上它,看看合不合适。
Just try it on for size.
你观察会发生什么,尽管一开始感觉很荒谬,但当你逐渐建立起更多自主性,通过小步骤向自己证明‘这也可能是真的’时,你最终可以选择保留这个信念,或者丢弃它,换上一个新的。
You see what happens, and as ridiculous as it feels at first, when you start building more agency, when you start proving to yourself in small steps that, hey, that could also be true, you can choose at some later point to keep that belief or chuck it for yet a new one.
为什么反刍思维明明具有破坏性,却让人感觉很有成效呢?
Why why does rumination feel productive when it's actually destructive then?
我们的内心究竟发生了什么,让我们如此渴望这样做?
Like, what what is it that's happening inside of our minds that causes us to want to do that?
是的。
Yeah.
这涉及几个方面。
It's a it's a few things.
首先,反刍思维让人感觉像是在解决问题,但实际上它只是对过去的反复思虑。
So one, rumination feels like problem solving, but it's rumination about the past.
对吧?
Right?
反刍思维来源于牛咀嚼反刍食物的行为。
Rumination comes from what cows do to their cud.
对吧?
Right?
它们会反复咀嚼。
They they ruminate.
它们无休止地咀嚼同一个问题。
They chew chew chew on a problem endlessly.
而很多时候,这种行为会让人感觉有成效,因为我们觉得投入了时间和注意力在某件事上。
And oftentimes that can feel productive because it feels like we're putting time and attention towards something.
但当它变成反刍思维时,当我们一遍又一遍地谈论同一件事,尤其是在人们回想过去的时候,这种情况我们经常看到,对吧?
But when it becomes rumination, when we were talking about the same thing again and again, people we see this all the time when people think about their past, right?
反刍思维总是关于过去发生的事情。
Rumination is always about something that has happened in the past.
它从建设性的问题解决转变为常常是一种逃避现实的方式——如果我不断思考一个问题,我就不用去处理眼前的事情了,对吧?这几乎就像一种安抚剂。
It moves from constructive problem solving into, many times, an escape from reality, that if I'm constantly thinking of a problem, I don't have to do what's currently in front of me, right, that it's something that almost becomes a pacifier in a way.
所以一个非常实际的解决方法是,我开始这么做,虽然一开始听起来很荒谬:我实际上开始专门安排时间来担忧。
So a very practical solution, what I've started to do, also sounds nuts at first, is I've actually started planning time to worry.
现在我的大脑就不必再反复纠结于这个问题了。
So now my brain doesn't have to ruminate about the problem.
它也不必再频繁地思考‘我什么时候才有时间去思考和解决这个问题’,因为我已经在日程中专门安排了担忧的时间。
It doesn't have to ruminate just as much about when will I have time to think about and solve this problem, because now I have time in my calendar for worry.
现在,十次中有九次会发生什么情况呢?
Now here's what happens nine times out of 10.
我会写下来:这是我需要担忧的事情。
You know, I'll write down, here's what I need to worry about.
非常重要的一件事。
Very, very important thing.
我一直在脑子里反复琢磨这件事,这件事我确实非常需要思考。
I keep ruminating in my head about this thing that I definitely, definitely need to think about.
非常重要,就是我过去搞砸了的那件事,我需要想想该怎么补救。
Very, very important, this thing that I messed up on in the past, and I need to think about how do I fix it.
等到我安排好的担忧时间到来时,十次里有九次,我到底在担心什么来着?
And then when that worry time comes, nine times out of 10, what the heck was I worrying about?
我为什么一直反复想这件事?
Why did I keep ruminating on it?
其实我不需要这样。
I didn't need to.
事实上,这件事被其他更重要的事情压得无影无踪了。
In fact, you know, it it it's something that got crushed under the weight of of some other priority.
是的。
Yeah.
倾诉和反复思虑的成瘾感,真的让人觉得很满足。
The the addiction to venting and and rumination is, it feels so satisfying.
这就像拉伸那条撕裂或拉伤的肌肉一样。
You know, it's the same as as stretching that torn or, strained muscle.
你就是不停地检查,检查,再检查。
You just keep on checking, checking, checking.
我们会再回到这个话题。
We'll go back to it.
我们会再回到这个话题。
We'll go back to it.
我们会再回到这个话题。
We'll go back to it.
所以我得想象,当涉及信念时,被拒绝和失败某种程度上是一种挑战。
So I have to imagine that rejection and failure when it comes to belief is somewhat of a challenge.
对吧?
Right?
人们在经历多次失败后,如何重建信念?
How how do people rebuild belief after repeated failures?
是的。
Yeah.
所以,如果你正在失败,这并不一定是一件坏事。
So if you are failing, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
我想改变的是我自己的生活,也希望帮助他人,那就是给予他们更多的坚持,因为我们知道,坚持才是决定性的因素。
What I want to change in my life, and what I hope I can help with others, is to give them more persistence, because we know that persistence is the defining factor.
你这一生中见过很多成功的人。
You've met lots and lots of successful people in your life.
为了写这本书,我采访过许多亿万富翁。
Interviewed billionaires for this book.
为了写这本书,我也采访过一些身无分文的人。
I've interviewed people who are broke for this book.
我发现,不成功的人并不是那些失败更多的人。
What I discovered was is that unsuccessful people are not those that fail more.
不成功的人是那些失败得少的人。
Unsuccessful people are those who fail less.
成功的人失败得更多。
Successful people fail more.
是那些一次又一次、再三尝试,直到最终大获成功的亿万富翁。
It's the billionaire who tried again and again and again and again until they hit it big.
他们做了更多的实验。
They do more of these experiments.
他们有更多的射门机会。
They have more shots on goal.
因此,这种坚持最终成为了一个决定性的特质。
And so that turns out to be a defining trait, that persistence.
有一项精彩的研究让我大为震惊,那是上世纪五十年代库尔特·里希特进行的研究,他把老鼠放进装满水的圆柱形容器里,水位大约在一半高度。
There's a wonderful study that really blew my mind, this Kurt Richter study back in the nineteen fifties where he took these rats, and he put these rats into cylinders of water, and they were filled about halfway full.
他把这些老鼠放进装满水的容器里,站在一旁用计时器观察它们能游多久。
And he took these these rats, he put them in the cylinder of water, and he stood there with a time a timer to see how long the rats would swim for.
结果发现,如果你好奇的话,一只野生老鼠在水缸里能游大约十五分钟,然后才会放弃并死亡。
It turns out, in case you were curious, a wild rat can swim in a cylinder of water for about fifteen minutes before it gives up and dies.
很不错。
Very nice.
然后他想再做一个研究。
Then he wanted to do another study.
他做了一项后续研究。
He did a follow-up study.
顺便说一下,现在不能再做这种不道德的实验了,但他们当年做了,所以我们能从中学习。
By the way, can't do these kind of unethical studies anymore, but they did it so we can learn from it.
然后他取了一组新的野生老鼠,把它们放进水缸里,看着它们游啊游,游了大约十五分钟。
Then he took a new batch of wild rats, and he put them in the cylinder of water, and he watched them swim, swim, swim for about fifteen minutes.
就在他预判它们即将放弃并沉入水中的那一刻,他伸手把老鼠捞出来,擦干它,让它休息一分钟,然后又把它放回水缸里。
And right before he knew they would give up and sink under the water, he reached in, pulled out the rat, dried it off, let it catch its breath for a minute, and plunk back into the the cylinder it went.
现在他想看看,如果他反复这样做,让这些野生老鼠意识到获救是有可能的,会发生什么?
And now he wanted to see if he did that a few times and he conditioned the the wild rat to know that salvation might be possible, what would happen?
老鼠能游更久吗?
Could the rat swim for longer?
你已经读过这本书了,我知道你知道答案,但当我问别人老鼠多游了多久时,人们会说可能翻了一倍,好吧,或者三倍,对吧?
Now you've read the book, I know you know the answer, but when I ask people how much longer did the rat swim for, people say maybe double, okay, maybe triple, right?
也许四倍那么久。
Maybe four times longer.
如果老鼠从十五分钟增加到六十分钟,整整一小时,那不是很惊人吗?
Wouldn't that be amazing if the rat went from fifteen minutes to sixty minutes, an hour?
想象一下,如果你在跑马拉松,现在你的耐力增加了四倍;如果你在应对那个艰巨的任务,无论是什么挑战,你都能坚持四倍长的时间,这简直让人难以置信。
Think about If you're running a marathon and now you have four times the endurance, if you're working on that hard task, if you're whatever that challenge is, you can sustain four times longer, that'd blow your mind.
那太棒了。
That'd amazing.
什么样的神奇干预会导致这种情况?
What kind of crazy intervention would that be?
但老鼠并没有游六十分钟。
Well, the rats didn't swim for sixty minutes.
它们最终游了六十个小时。
They ended up swimming for sixty hours.
它们游了240倍长的时间。
They swam for 240 times longer.
这种能力一直存在于它们体内,因为它们的身体并没有改变。
And that ability was in them the whole time because their bodies didn't change.
实验本身也没有改变。
The experiment didn't change.
改变的是我们的想法,我们无法询问这些老鼠它们相信了什么。
What changed was we think, we can't ask these rats what they believed.
我们认为,它们的内心一定发生了某种变化。
We think that something must have changed in their minds.
它们看到希望和救赎是可能的,这促使它们不断坚持、坚持、再坚持。
The fact that they saw that hope and salvation were possible kept them persisting, persisting, persisting.
因此,这一切突然因为一种信念而被激活了。
And so it all of a sudden became unlocked because of a belief.
他们相信,救赎也许是可能的。
They believed that salvation maybe might be possible.
因此,这里的目标是意识到,实际应用中不应在十五分钟时就放弃。
And so the goal here is to realize the practical application of this is not to quit at the fifteen minute mark.
对我们大多数人来说,包括我自己,当感到不适、困难或痛苦时,我们就认为那是自己的极限。
That for the vast majority of us, myself included, when it gets uncomfortable, when it gets difficult, when it gets painful, that's our limit.
但你的极限实际上远比你想象的要远得多。
But your limit is so much further than you actually think.
所以最重要的是,在正确的时候选择放弃。
So the most important thing is to quit when it's the right time.
放弃本身并没有错,但放弃也并没有什么不对。
Quitting is not wrong, but there's nothing wrong with quitting.
过早放弃是对人力资本的破坏。
Quitting too soon is a destruction of human capital.
这就是我们必须避免的。
That's what we have to prevent.
对吧?
Right?
太早放弃的话,我放弃过很多东西。
Quitting too soon I've quit many things.
我放弃过感情关系。
I've quit relationships.
我放弃过生意。
I've quit businesses.
我放弃过各种各样的事情。
I've quit all kinds of things.
并不是放弃本身是错的。
It's not that quitting is wrong.
问题在于太早放弃。
It's quitting when it's too soon that's the problem.
所以,其中一个不放弃的标准就是当它让你感到痛苦的时候,对吧?
So, and one of those criteria for when not to quit is when it hurts, right?
这种痛苦只是一种信号。
That pain is just a signal.
还记得我们谈过的1100万比特与50比特的信息量吗?
Remember we talked about 11,000,000 bits versus 50 bits of information?
这些痛苦信号,只是一种信息。
Those pain signals, that's just information.
这并不一定是坏事。
That's not necessarily a bad thing.
所以,如果我们能将痛苦与对痛苦的解读——即痛苦带来的苦难——分离开来,只在合适的时候放弃。
So if we can disconnect the pain from the suffering, the interpretation of that pain, and only quit when it's time.
例如,一个判断何时该放弃的好标准,不是当你失败的时候。
So for example, one of the criteria for when is it a good time to quit, is not when you're failing.
失败并不是放弃一项任务的正当理由。
That is a bad reason to quit a task.
失败本身并不是正确的理由。
The failing is not the right reason.
当你停止学习的时候。
It's when you stop learning.
如果失败能让你学到东西,那就继续下去。
That if the failures are teaching you something, keep going.
对吧?
Right?
但这并不是说,关于何时该放弃,还有另外两个标准。
That's not necessarily There's two other criteria about when when is the proper time to quit.
但失败本身,并不一定是决定何时放弃的正确标准。
But failure itself, in and of itself, is not necessarily the right criteria for when to quit.
其他的标准是什么?
What are the other criteria?
另外两个标准,第一个是,你必须达到一个检查点。
The other two criteria, number one, is you have to meet a checkpoint.
大多数人不设检查点,他们只设截止日期。
So most people don't set checkpoints, they set deadlines.
但这不是我们正在讨论的内容。
And that's not what we're talking about.
我们讨论的不是截止日期。
We're not talking about a deadline.
我们讨论的是一个检查点,也就是说,我会在一段固定的时间内忍受这种痛苦。
We're talking about A checkpoint is when I say, I will endure this suffering for a fixed period of time.
那我们为什么要这样做呢?
Now why do we do that?
因为如果我们不这样做,一旦感到不舒服,就会把痛苦解读为苦难,然后想放弃。
Because if we don't do that, as soon as it gets uncomfortable, we're going to interpret the pain as suffering, and we're gonna wanna quit.
相反,当我们说,我要尝试这种视角。
Instead, when we say, I'm gonna try this perspective.
对吧?
Right?
我要尝试我之前描述过的那种关于我妈妈的疯狂观点,或者那种关于生活的疯狂看法——生活不是为了完成任务清单。
I'm gonna try this crazy view of my mom, like I was describing earlier, or this crazy view of my life that life is not for ticking off tasks.
好吧,听起来不太对,我不认同,也许这并不真实,但我愿意试一周、三十天,或者你定个时间。
Okay, doesn't sound right, I don't agree, maybe it's not true, but I'm gonna try it for one week, thirty days, whatever, you make up the number.
在到达那个检查点之前,我不会停止。
And I'm not gonna stop until I hit that checkpoint.
到了那个检查点,我可以退一步说:好吧,让我冷静想想。
Then at that checkpoint, I can say, okay, let let me take a step back.
如果今天重新开始,我还会继续这个实验吗?
Would I continue this experiment past that checkpoint if I were to start today?
但在检查点之前,千万别放弃。
But don't quit until the checkpoint.
对吧?
Right?
不管那个艰难的任务是什么。
Whatever that that hard task might be.
三十天的锻炼,三十天发布YouTube视频,三十天写你的书,不管是什么,一定要设定好这个检查点。
Thirty days of exercise, thirty days of posting YouTube videos, thirty days of writing your book, whatever it is, make sure you have that checkpoint.
这是第一个标准。
That's criteria number one.
第二个标准是,你是否在失败中持续学习?
Criteria number two is are you still learning through failure?
我们之前讨论过这一点。
We talked about that earlier.
第三个,也是最重要的标准是:坚持是否能带来不同?
And then the third, and the most important criteria, is does persistence make a difference?
生活中许多事情,坚持并不会带来不同。
Many things in life, persistence does not make a difference.
如果你身处糟糕的工作环境,情况很糟,同事吸干了你的能量,每到周日晚上,你就害怕周一早上醒来,因为你知道又要上班了,这时候坚持也没用。
If you're in a crappy work culture, and it's awful, and the people are sucking out your energy, and you, on Sunday evening, you are dreading waking up on Monday morning because you know you have to go to work, persistence ain't gonna help.
那些人不会因为你多待久了就突然离开,对吧?
Those people are not gonna suddenly leave just because you stuck around longer, right?
等他们离开的时候,你可能都已经不在了,所以坚持并不会带来不同。
You're gonna die by the time those people leave, so persistence is not gonna make a difference.
然而,就健身而言,比如你是个普通人,你知道的,你会遇到平台期,但如果你坚持下去,嘿,你就能突破这个平台期。
However, when it comes to fitness, for example, you're a jack guy, you know this, you hit plateaus, and then if you persist, hey, you'll bust out of that plateau.
你最终会取得进展,对吧?
You'll make progress eventually, Right?
所以生活中有些事情,即使你没有看到进展,坚持也真的能带来不同。
So there are certain things in life where persistence really does make a difference, even if you're not seeing progress.
但如果你满足了这三个标准,那就没问题。
But if you meet those three criteria, that's fine.
最重要的是,你不要过早放弃。
The most important thing is that you're not quitting too soon.
你不要像那些老鼠一样,在十五分钟就放弃,即使你还有六十小时的潜力。
You're not quitting at the fifteen minute mark like those rats, even when you have the sixty hours of potential.
在我们继续之前,我非常支持减少酒精摄入,但历史上,无酒精啤酒的味道简直像屎。
Before we continue, I am a massive fan of reducing your alcohol intake, but historically, nonalcoholic brews taste like ass.
你不需要进行什么大 reset。
You don't need to be doing some big reset.
也许你只是想喝一杯冰啤酒,却不想第二天早上感觉糟透了,这正是我如此推崇Athletic Brewing Co的原因。
Maybe you just want to crack a cold one without feeling like garbage the next morning, which is why I am such a huge fan of Athletic Brewing Co.
他们有50多种无酒精啤酒,包括IPA、淡色艾尔,甚至还有像鸡尾酒风格的帕洛玛和莫斯科骡子这样的限量款。
They've got 50 types of NAs, including IPAs, Goldens, and even limited releases like a cocktail inspired Paloma and Moscow Mule.
关键是,你可以随时随地喝。
And here's the thing, you can drink them anytime.
深夜、清晨、看球赛、打球,都没关系。
Late nights, early mornings, watching sports, playing sports, doesn't matter.
没有宿醉。
No hangover.
没有妥协。
No compromise.
这就是我为什么与他们合作的原因。
And that is why I partnered with them.
你可以在附近的超市或酒类商店找到Athletic Brewing Co的畅销系列,或者更好的选择是,直接订购包含四种口味的完整混装包,送货上门。
You can find Athletic Brewing Co's best selling lineup at grocery or liquor stores near you, or best option, get a full variety pack of four flavors shipped right to your door.
现在,通过访问下方描述中的链接或前往 athleticbrewing.com/modernwisdom,您首次在线订购可享受15%的折扣。
Right now, you can get 15% off your first online order by going to the link in the description below or heading to athleticbrewing.com/modernwisdom.
网址是 athleticbrewing.com/modernwisdom。
That's athleticbrewing.com/modernwisdom.
在我看来,运气和这里提到的拒绝之间似乎存在某种关联,人们总想刻意操控它,而有些人似乎天生更幸运一些。
It feels to me like there's a relationship between luck and the rejection thing here that people are always trying to engineer it, and some people in life seem to be a little bit more lucky.
你对运气有什么发现?
What did you find out about luck?
是的。
Yeah.
运气不是偶然。
That luck is not chance.
事实上,运气完全可以被主动创造。
That luck, in fact, can absolutely be engineered.
我们坦诚地说吧。
The most like, let's let's be honest here.
最幸运的事就是你的出生。
The the most lucky thing is your birth.
对吧?
Right?
如果你幸运地出生在一个工业化民主国家,你就赢得了基因彩票,正如沃伦·巴菲特常说的那样。
That if you are lucky enough to be born in an industrialized Democratic country, you won the genetic lottery, right, as Warren Buffett used to say.
除此之外,出生之后,根本不存在所谓特别幸运的人。
Other than that, after you're born, it turns out there's no such thing as particularly lucky people.
我们看到成功人士,就说他们只是运气好。
We see successful people, we say, oh, they just got lucky.
当然,幸运的事也会发生在各种人身上。
And of course, lucky things happen to all kinds of people.
但更重要的是,他们如何创造自己的运气。
But it turns out what's much more important is how they manufacture their luck.
要知道,企业家有一种被称为创业警觉性的现象,我们发现,成功的创业者实际上是以不同的方式看待这个世界。
Know that entrepreneurs, they have this phenomenon called entrepreneurial alertness, where we know that successful entrepreneurs literally see the world differently.
他们仿佛看到地上到处都是100美元的钞票,而且确实有一项精彩的研究证明了这一点。
They metaphorically see $100 bills all over the floor, and there's actually a wonderful study that showed this.
他们找了两组人。
They took two groups of people.
一组是自我认定的悲观者,另一组是自我认定的乐观者。
One was self identified pessimists, and one were self identified optimists.
在这项研究中,他们要求人们观看一份报纸,这份报纸是专门为这个实验设计的。
And in this study, they asked people to look at a newspaper, and this newspaper was specially designed for this experiment.
实验的目标是,他们请参与者数一数这份报纸里有多少张照片。
And the goal of the experiment, they asked them, we want you to count for us how many photos there are in this newspaper.
好的。
Okay.
你在这份报纸里看到了多少张照片?
How many photos do you see in this newspaper?
尽快数完,然后告诉监考人员,你就能获得一笔现金奖励。
Count as quickly as you can, and then tell the the proctor, and you'll get a monetary prize.
那些自我认定为乐观主义者的人大约用了十一秒就完成了这个实验。
Now, people who were self identified optimists took about eleven seconds to finish this experiment.
而自我认定为悲观主义者的人则花了两分半钟。
People who were self identified pessimists took two and a half minutes.
为什么?
Why?
为什么会这样?
Why the difference?
对吧?
Right?
这可是巨大的优势。
That's a huge advantage.
发生了什么?
What happened?
结果发现,在这份报纸的第二页上有一张照片,上面写着:这份报纸共有48张照片。
Turns out that on page two of this newspaper was a photo that said there are 48 photos in this newspaper.
上面就写了这些。
That's all it said.
然后在报纸中间部分,又说了一遍:这份报纸里有48张照片。
Then halfway through the the paper, it said, there are 48 photos in this paper.
来领奖吧。
Collect your prize.
明白吗?
K?
乐观的人注意到了这一点。
Optimistic people saw that.
他们看到了这个明显摆在眼前的信息。
They saw this thing staring them in the face.
他们站了起来。
They got up.
他们说:这份报纸里有48张照片,然后去领了奖。
They said there's 48 pictures in the in the newspaper, and they collected their their prize.
他们平均在十一秒内就走开了。
They walked off in eleven seconds on average.
悲观的人坐在那里数着:一、二、三、四。
The pessimistic people sat there and said, One, two, three, four.
他们根本没看到眼前明摆着的机会。
They didn't even see the opportunity staring them in the face.
他们对此完全毫无察觉。
They were completely oblivious to it.
因此,这是一个绝佳的例子,说明我们看不到自己不相信的东西。
And so this is a wonderful example of how we don't see what we believe.
这正是我们通常认为的常识。
That's kind of what we think is common knowledge.
我们必须看到某样东西,才会相信它。
We have to see something in order to believe it.
但事实恰恰相反:我们要想看到某样东西,就必须先相信它。
Turns out the exact opposite is just as true, that in order to see something, we have to believe it.
这太疯狂了。
That's wild.
真是太不可思议了。
That is so crazy.
就像冰山一样。
Super the iceberg.
这在人们的生活中有哪些表现呢?
What are the ways does this show up in people's lives?
无处不在。
All over the place.
我的意思是,我们知道正在节食的人会从视觉上觉得食物更大。
I mean, we know that people who are on a diet physically see food as larger.
他们看到害怕高度的人会觉得距离更远,对吧?
They see that people who are afraid of heights see distances as farther away, right?
回到这个注意力的钥匙孔,当我们被迫通过这个微小的钥匙孔来看待现实时,我们无可奈何。
Back to this keyhole of attention, that when we are forced to see reality through this itsy bitsy keyhole of reality, we can't help it.
对,就是我之前提到的那个咳嗽错觉,太疯狂了。
Right, that cougher illusion that I talked about earlier, it's crazy.
我给人们看这个,他们绝对发誓说这里什么都没有,只有线条。
I'll show it to people and they will absolutely swear there is nothing here but swears.
对吧?
Right?
而你给其他人看,他们会说那里什么都没有,只有圆圈,我们认为这完全是被决定的。
Whereas you show it to other people and they'll say there's nothing there but circles, and it's completely determined, we think.
我们还不完全清楚为什么会这样。
We don't exactly know why this is happening.
我们认为这与你成长的环境有关,生活在城市环境中的人会看到锐利的边缘。
We think it's because of where you grow up, that people who grow up in urban environments see sharp edges.
对吧?
Right?
建筑物和街道,他们看到的是锐利的边缘。
Buildings and streets, they see sharp edges.
这些不是自然的。
These are not natural.
但那些在非洲撒哈拉以南地区长大的人,比如参与这项研究的人,看到的是圆形,因为他们被训练成这样去看。
But people who grow up, for example, where they did this study that they showed the cougher illusion to people in Sub Saharan Africa, and they see circles, because that's what they have been conditioned to see.
他们看到的是有机形状,而不是锐利的边缘。
They see organic shapes, they don't see hard edges.
因此,你的过往经验会反复影响你能看到的东西。
And so it absolutely affects time and time again what you are able to see based on your past experience.
当然,我们很多人无中生有地制造了问题,对吧?
And of course, we make up problems for many of us where they don't exist, right?
这绝非巧合:当我说这些时,人们会觉得我疯了,但你要知道,你越觉得某种替代性信念疯狂,就越应该去探索它,对吧?
That it's no coincidence that this is, people are gonna think I'm crazy, and when I say this, know that the crazier you think an alternative belief is, the more you should actually explore it, right?
因为你的大脑就像免疫系统一样,试图排斥外来抗体,排斥那些你不认同的信念。
Because that's your brain with your belief immune system is trying to keep out foreign antibodies, it's trying to keep out these beliefs you don't like.
事实上,世界正在变得更好,而且实际上比以往任何时候都更好,对吧?
The fact is, the world is getting better, and it's in fact better than it's ever been, right?
但普通人如果被问:这是历史上最好的时代吗?
But the average person, if you say, Is this the best time in history?
普通人会说:不,情况太糟了。
The average person will say, No, it's terrible.
我们有战争,有犯罪,有这个,有那个。
We have wars, we have crime, we have this, we have that.
事情很糟糕,而且还在变得更糟。
Things are terrible and they're getting worse.
但事实并非如此。
Well, that's not true.
如果你不相信我,不妨读读汉斯·罗斯林的这本精彩著作《事实》,他在书中采访了大学教授,给他们做了一套关于世界现状的测试,涵盖我们关心的所有方面——教育、环境、女性赋权、民主等。
And if you don't believe me, read this wonderful book by Hans Rosling, Factfulness, where he interviewed university professors, and he gave them an exam about the state of the world, the state of all the things we care about, the state of education, the state of the environment, the state of female empowerment, the state of democracy.
这些教授在测试中的表现还不如猴子随机作答。
These professors on this exam did worse than if monkeys would have taken this test.
他们对世界真实状况的判断甚至比随机猜测还差,这是因为我们都存在消极偏见,总是不断寻求确认自己已有的信念。
They did worse than chance on a realistic portrayal of how the world is because of this negativity bias that we all have, because of these existing beliefs that we seek to confirm time and time again.
所以,如果你在寻找负面信息,如果你相信世界正在变糟,你就会看到世界变糟的所有方式。
So if you are looking for negativity, if you believe that the world is getting worse, you're gonna see all the ways the world is getting worse.
你会倾向于关注那些不断强化这一观点的媒体,因为‘有血有泪,才能头条’。
You're gonna tune into the media that does nothing but reinforce that fact, because if it bleeds, it leads.
你会看到所有的犯罪故事、仇恨、敌意和战争,因为这就是你关注的方向,这就是你注意的内容。
You're gonna see all the crime stories, the hatred, the animosity, the wars, because that's what you're turning into, that's what you're paying attention to.
我再给你讲一个我特别喜欢的快速研究,就是达特茅斯疤痕研究。研究人员找来一些女性,说我们要研究人们如何对待面部有缺陷的人。
I'll give you one more quick study that I love, is the Dartmouth scar study, where they took women, and they said, we're gonna do a study on how people treat those with facial disfigurements.
我们想看看她们是否受到不同的对待,是否遭到歧视。
We wanna see how people are treated differently, how they are discriminated against.
所以我们要在你们脸上贴一个假疤痕,然后让你们和另一个人待在一个房间里,那个人就是我们研究的对象,你们要记录下自己带着这个面部疤痕时被如何对待。
So we're gonna put this fake scar on your face, and we're gonna put you in a room with with somebody else, the the person we're doing the study on, and we want you to report how you're treated with this facial scar.
他们做得非常逼真,就像你在恐怖电影里看到的那种——脸上有一道巨大的伤口。
And they made this very realistic, you know, like one of the ones that you would see in a in a horror film, this huge gash on their face.
然后说:好了,现在你走进这个房间,仔细记录下你和别人交谈时,他们是如何对待你的。
And said, okay, now you're gonna walk into this room, and we want you to take careful notes on how people treated you when you had a conversation.
等等,等等,等等,先回来一下。
Except, wait, wait, wait, come back here for a quick second.
在你进房间之前,让我简单补一下。
Before you go into the room, let me just do a quick touch up.
但这些女性在研究中并不知道,她们脸上的疤痕已经被完全移除了。
And what these women didn't know in the study is that they completely removed the scar.
这些女性并不知道这一点。
The women didn't know that.
她们在镜子里看到了疤痕,但在做补妆并移除疤痕后,她们并不知道疤痕已经不存在了。
They saw the scar in the mirror, but then when they did the touch up and removed the scar, they didn't know that the scar didn't exist.
疤痕根本不存在。
It wasn't there.
然而,这些参与研究的女性报告说,她们被盯着看,遭受了歧视,和她们交谈的人显得厌恶并多次避开目光,她们感到非常不舒服,而这一切都是针对一个根本不存在的疤痕。
And yet, these women in the study reported that they were stared at, that they were discriminated against, that the people they were talking to seemed disgusted and averted their eyes many times, and they felt very uncomfortable, all for a scar that didn't even exist.
疤痕根本不存在,因为她们预期会有这样的反应,而当你预期某事会发生时,你就会看到它。
It wasn't even there, because they expected a response, and when you expect something to occur, you will see it.
这就像活在一个模拟世界里。
It's like living in a simulation.
就好像我们创造了一个世界的模拟版本,却忽视了真实世界向我们展示的一切。
It's like we create a simulation of the world and kind of disregard what the actual world is showing to us.
没错。
That's right.
现在我们不必这样了。
Now we don't have to.
对吧?
Right?
因此,通过持续练习以不同的方式看待世界,我们或许能够看到真相。
So that through this consistent practice of making ourselves see the world differently, we hopefully can see truth.
我的意思是,至少在许多文化中,不包括所有文化,意见不合被视为不礼貌,这难道不疯狂吗?
I mean, isn't it crazy how, at least in in in many cultures, not all cultures, disagreement is seen as rude.
对吧?
Right?
当有人不同意你的观点时,你就会有点讨厌那个人。
That like when someone disagrees with you, they're kind of, you don't like that person.
对吧?
Right?
当有人挑战你的感受时,会让人感到不舒服。
When someone challenges your feelings, that creates a little icky feeling.
或者如果有人改变了观点,他们就会被叫做立场反复无常的人。
Or if someone does change their perspective, they're called a flip flopper.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
这难道不是最愚蠢的事情吗?
Is that not the stupidest thing ever?
我的意思是,这现在成了我的爱的语言。
I mean, now that's become my love language.
如果你能改变我对某件事的看法,你能想到更好的礼物吗?
Like, if you can change my mind about something, can you think of a better gift?
我是在对自己撒谎,关于现实、关于我自己、关于我的关系,而你现在帮我更清晰地看清了这个世界。
Like, I I was lying to myself about reality, about myself, about my relationship, and now you've helped me see the world more clearly.
你想想,还有什么比这更好的礼物吗?
Can you like, what better gift could there possibly be?
是的。
Yeah.
我们如此依附于自己的观点,以至于失去或放下它们,仿佛对自我而言就是一种毁灭。
It's a strange one that we're so attached to our points of view that losing them or letting go of them is kind of tantamount to destruction, at least to the ego.
我在想,人们现在持有的某些信念,也许现在有用,能带来成功之类的,但未来却可能悄悄地限制你。
And I'm thinking about beliefs that people have now, which might be useful, but that or that creates success or whatever, but in the future quietly limit you later on.
人们现在持有的某些信念,过去曾经有效或有帮助,但现在却成了我们的拖累。
Beliefs that people hold now that previously were effective or helpful in some sort of a way, but now are holding us back.
这种关于信念和工具的盲点——它们曾经在那时有用,而我们现在身处何地?你该如何思考随着时间推移更新信念?
That kind of blind spot with regards to belief and the tool, where it was then, where we are now, how do you come to think about updating beliefs over time in that sort of a way?
对。
Yeah.
我们从哪里开始?
Where do we begin?
我认为其中一个越来越普遍的挑战是我们拥有这些文化性的反安慰剂。
I I think one of the, challenges that I think is is becoming more and more prevalent is that we have these cultural nocebos.
安慰剂一词源自拉丁语,意思是‘我会治愈’。
So placebos come from the Latin I will heal.
反安慰剂一词源自拉丁语,意思是‘我会伤害’。
Nocebos come from I will hurt.
事实证明,这些反安慰剂效应具有传染性。
And it turns out these nocebo effects are contagious.
当我们告诉人们他们可能患有某种疾病时,这种影响就会传播开来。
That when we tell people that they might be suffering from some kind of malady, it spreads.
我给你举个很好的例子。
I'll give you a great example.
我记得在葡萄牙发生过一件事,就在某一个晚上,出现了一场流行病。
There was this case in, I think it was Portugal, if I'm not mistaken, where on one particular night, there was this epidemic.
医院的病房里挤满了患有严重肠道不适的年轻女孩。
The hospital rooms were filling up with young girls with intense intestinal discomfort.
急诊室也被塞满了,人们以为这是一种病毒。
They were filling up the ERs, and people thought it was some kind of virus.
人们觉得水源里有什么问题。
People thought there was something in the water.
到底发生了什么?
Like, what had happened?
奇怪的是,只有特定年龄的女生受到影响,没人知道原因。
It was really weird that it only affected girls of a certain age, and nobody knew what it was.
结果发现,当时有一档非常受欢迎的电视节目。
Turns out, there was a very popular TV show.
我想叫《草莓与奶油》,节目中主角——那位女主角——也患有类似的肠道疾病,经常病得很重,这种情节迅速传播开来,引发了大规模的无意识负面效应。
I think it was called Strawberries and Cream, and on that show, the main character, the protagonist, had some kind of similar intestinal malady where she was very sick, and that actually caught on and created this kind of mass nocebo effect.
这种情况一再重复出现。
And this goes, we see this repeated again and again.
每隔几年,世界各地都会出现某种心因性疾病的爆发。
Every few years somewhere in the world, there'll be some kind of outbreak of some kind of psychosomatic disorder.
在文献中,有一个案例让我震惊不已,有位男士,他们称他为A先生。
In the literature, one case that really blew my mind, there was this guy, they call him Mr.
A先生的身份被匿名处理了。
A, he was anonymized.
而A先生
And Mr.
与女友经历了艰难的分手,决定结束自己的生命。
A had a very difficult breakup with his girlfriend, and he decides that he wants to end his life.
于是他拿起一瓶药,打开瓶盖,吞下了整瓶药片,几分钟后,他改变了主意。
So he takes a bottle of pills, opens it up, he takes the entire bottle of pills, swallows everything, and a few minutes later, he changes his mind.
他决定要活下去。
He decides he wants to live.
于是他冲到隔壁邻居家里。
So he rushes over to his next door neighbor.
他告诉邻居自己吃下了所有的药片。
He tells him he took all his pills.
邻居立刻送他去急诊室。
Neighbor rushes him to the ER.
A先生
Mr.
A先生冲进急诊室,摔倒在地,几乎失去意识,一边喊着:我吃下了所有的药片,我吃下了所有的药片,救救我。
A barges through the emergency room, crashes on the floor, he's almost unconscious, and he says, I took all my pills, I took all my pills, help me.
他们迅速将他推进手术室,他的血压极低,心率急剧下降,医护人员正努力判断他服用了什么药物。
They rush him into the Operating Room, his blood pressure is dangerously low, his heart rate is plummeting, and they're trying to figure out what did he overdose on.
他们看了看药瓶,发现瓶上只印了一个联系电话。
Well, look at the jar of pills, and all there is on the jar of pills is a number to call.
A先生
It turns out that Mr.
A先生曾参与一项治疗抑郁症的临床试验,他吃下了研究中分发给他的所有药片。
A had been part of a clinical trial for depression, and he took all these pills that he was given in the study.
他们拨打了那个号码,对方问:这是什么药?
They called the number, and they say, What is this drug?
他刚服用了什么药物?我们需要尽快抢救他。
What did he just overdose on so that we can try and resuscitate him?
同样,所有药物过量的生理症状——心率下降、血压骤降,以及所有预期会出现的过量反应——都发生在A先生身上。
And again, all the physiological symptoms of overdose, the the heart rate, the plunging, blood pressure, all the things that you would expect with an overdose are happening to mister A.
另一端的医生说:这个人服用的是安慰剂。
On the other line, the doctor says, this person took placebos.
他没有服用任何活性成分。
He did not get the active ingredient.
他们告诉A先生,
They tell Mr.
他服用的全是安慰剂。
A this, that he took nothing but placebos.
十五分钟内,克里斯,A先生
Within fifteen minutes, Chris, Mr.
A完全恢复了,心率恢复正常,血压也恢复正常,他没事了。
A is completely revived, his heart rate is back to normal, his blood pressure is back to normal, and he's fine.
他准备离开急诊室了。
He's ready to walk out of the ER.
如果我们仅仅依靠信念、依靠我们对脑海中这场疯狂模拟的预期,就能产生如此惊人的生理效应,那这对我们生活中的其他反安慰剂意味着什么?
Now, if we can have these incredible physiological effects solely based on our beliefs, solely based on our expectations of what we think will happen in this crazy simulation that's running in our heads, if that can be done to this extent, what does that mean for all the other nocebos in our life?
当我们给自己贴上各种标签,并不断重复这些标签时,会发生什么?
What happens when we assign ourselves all kinds of labels that we keep tossing around?
如果你打开社交媒体,人们会随意给彼此贴上各种疾病的标签,这些所谓的疾病根本没有任何心理依据,比如冒名顶替综合症。
If you open up social media, people are prescribing the hell out of each other with all kinds of maladies that let alone have no actual psychological basis, impostor syndrome.
冒名顶替综合症根本不是一种真实存在的病症。
Impostor syndrome is not a thing.
它不在《精神障碍诊断与统计手册》中。
It's not in the DSM.
根本不存在所谓的冒名顶替综合症。
There's nothing that makes the impostor syndrome.
你无法被诊断为冒名顶替综合症,但它听起来如此正式,以至于人们以为它是一种正式诊断。
You can't get diagnosed for impostor syndrome, but it sounds so official, people think it's a diagnosis.
当你觉得自己有冒名顶替综合症时,猜猜会发生什么?
Well, when you think you have impostor syndrome, guess what?
现在你就真的有了冒名顶替综合症。
Now you have impostor syndrome.
无论真假,你都已经制造出了它。
You've manufactured it, whether it's true or not.
这并不是我想争论的重点。
That's not what I'm arguing about.
我想讨论的是,它对你有帮助吗?
What I'm arguing about is does it serve you?
我不是早起型的人。
I'm not a morning person.
我这是老年性健忘。
I'm having a senior moment.
我不擅长公开演讲。
I'm no good at public speaking.
我无所谓。
I'm whatever.
当我们构建这种身份时,问题就出现了。
When we create this identity, that's the problem.
一个标签一旦确立,就会成为我们的局限。
Out of a label, that label becomes our limit.
另外,你可能已经听过我多次提到LMNT,因为说实话,我离不开它,它是我每天早晨开始一天的方式。
In other news, you've probably heard me talk about LMNT before, and that's because I am, frankly, dependent on it, and it's how I've started my day every single morning.
这是市场上最好喝的补水饮料。
This is the best tasting hydration drink on the market.
你可能会想,为什么我需要更多补水?
You might think, why do I need to be more hydrated?
因为适当的补水不仅仅是喝足够的水。
Because proper hydration is not just about drinking enough water.
关键是拥有足够的电解质,让你的身体能够利用这些水分。
It's having sufficient electrolytes to allow your body to use those fluids.
每一份便携式小包都含有经过科学验证的钠、钾和镁电解质配比。
Each grab and go stick pack is a science backed electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium.
它不含糖、色素、人工成分或其他任何添加剂。
It's got no sugar, coloring, artificial ingredients, or any other junk.
这在减少肌肉抽筋和疲劳、优化大脑健康、调节食欲和抑制渴望方面起着关键作用。
This plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue while optimizing brain health, regulating your appetite, and curbing cravings.
这种橙子口味溶于冷水中,是一种甜美、微咸、充满橙香的甘露,你服用后和不服用时会真正感受到差异,这就是我不断提起它的原因。
This orange flavor in a cold glass of water is a sweet, salty, orangey nectar, and you will genuinely feel a difference when you take it versus when you don't, which is why I keep going on about it.
首先,他们提供无条件退款政策,且没有时间限制。
First of all, there's a no questions asked refund policy with an unlimited duration.
买回去用完,如果你有任何不满意,他们全额退款,你甚至不需要退回包装盒。
Buy it, use it all, and if you don't like it for any reason, they give you your money back, and you don't even have to return the box.
他们对自己产品如此有信心。
That's how confident they are that you'll love it.
此外,他们在美国内提供免费配送。
Plus, they offer free shipping in The US.
现在,通过访问下方描述中的链接,前往 drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom,您在首次购买时即可免费获得 Element 最受欢迎口味的试用装。
Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below, heading to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.
网址是 drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom。
That's drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.
你提到的那个老鼠的例子,它以为自己会被救出来。
The example that you used with the mouse, it believed that it was going to be saved.
我不得不假设,要测算老鼠在淹死前能游多久,你必须让它真的淹死。
I have to assume that in order to work out how long a mouse swims for before it drowns, you have to let it drown.
所以在很多这类研究中,它实际上并没有被救起来。
So in a lot of these studies, it actually didn't get saved.
因此它形成了一个错误的信念,而这个错误的信念
So it had an erroneous belief, and that erroneous belief
但那是一群新的老鼠。
But it a it was a new it was a new group of rats.
是的。
Yes.
它提高了老鼠能够游泳时间的上限。
The it lifted the ceiling on, when the rat was was going to be able to swim for.
对。
Right.
因此,你可以让信念向上螺旋,朝着你理想中的自己迈进,那个在生活中整体表现更好的自己;但你也可以让信念向下螺旋,比如我吃了糖丸,现在却以为自己心脏病发作了,脑子要炸了。
So you can spiral belief up toward a version of you that you want, one that broadly gets better outcomes in life, but you can also spiral it down, which is I took sugar pills, and now I think I'm having a heart attack, and my my brain's gonna explode.
对。
Right.
在这两种情况下,解读和信念都在对人产生影响。
In both situations, the interpretation and the belief is causing an effect within the person.
对。
Right.
而且这两种影响都非常强大。
And both are very powerful.
我觉得当遇到冒名顶替综合征这类问题,或是对公开演讲、性功能方面有所担忧时,情况也是如此。
I think when it comes to something like impostor syndrome or concerns about public speak, sexual performance.
对不对?
Right?
有些男性在进入状态前会极度紧张,我觉得这不是心身问题——而是心理因素影响下,男性出现勃起功能障碍,没错。
Some guy that gets real nervous before he gets into I think that's like psychos not psychosomatic, mental impact on guys struggling to get it up is Mhmm.
这会在男性身上形成一个恶性循环,之后他们就很难从中脱身了。
A vicious spiral that happens to dudes, and then they can't get out of it.
他们为此忧心忡忡,总觉得这件坏事会发生在自己身上。
They're worried about it, and this thing's gonna happen.
这种负面影响会一路蔓延,彻底拖垮人的状态。
It goes all the way down.
对。
Yeah.
失眠、抑郁、纤维肌痛、慢性病、身体乏力、肠易激综合征,这些问题都会找上门。
Insomnia, depression, fibromyalgia, chronic, fatigue, IBS.
这类问题中有很多都会对小肠细菌过度生长的干预以及安慰剂效应产生明显反应。
Many of these things are highly responsive to both no SIBO and placebo effects.
不过抱歉,我刚才打断你了。
But sorry, interrupted you.
你继续说。
Continue.
就像有人陷入了那个恶性循环,而且情况越来越糟。
Just someone is on the spiral going in the wrong direction.
嗯。
Mhmm.
那他们要怎么进行干预呢?
How do they intervene?
他们要怎么干预,才能扭转这个局面,让情况往好的方向发展呢?
How do they intervene and reverse that direction to go back in the other?
因为我猜很多人脑子里第一个冒出来的念头就是,天哪。
Because one of the things that I imagine a lot of people think is, oh god.
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