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为什么自我意识是个问题？
Why is self awareness a problem?
自我意识是个问题，首先，我认为重要的是要认识到，我们通常认为自我意识是件好事。
Self awareness is a problem well, first of all, I think it's important to recognize that we often think about self awareness as a good thing.
我们一般把它看作一个梯度。
We generally think about it as a gradient.
因此，我们可能会说某人比其他人更有或更少的自我意识，而通常认为越多越好。
So we might refer to somebody as being more or less self aware than others, and more is typically assumed as better.
当我提到自我意识时，我指的是我们意识到自身存在的这一事实。
When I'm referring to self awareness, I'm referring to just the fact that we are aware of a self at all.
因此，我们拥有某种意识形式，能赋予我们自我感，这一点本身就因多种原因成了一个问题。
And so the mere fact that we have a certain form of consciousness that provides us that sense of self is a problem for a number of reasons.
首先，我们通过一个根本不在乎的进化过程获得了自我意识。
First and foremost, we've arrived with a sense of self awareness by a process of evolution that doesn't really care.
显然，我在这里用‘在乎’这个词是宽松的，因为进化根本不在乎任何东西，它只关心自身的持续延续。
Obviously, care I'm using loosely there because evolution doesn't care at all about anything besides it's just continuation propagation.
但从第一人称视角体验到的意识和自我意识，并不是自我意识和意识以人类所体验的形式出现的根本原因。
But the experience of consciousness and self awareness from the first person perspective is not central to the reason for why self awareness and consciousness arrived in the form that humans experience it.
因此，在我看来，我们由于自我意识而常常与现实和存在的根本本质相冲突。
And so we are often at odds with the fundamental nature of reality in existence by virtue of the self awareness, in my view at least.
原因在于，作为一个意识到自我的个体，我们会依附于这个自我，依附于自我的观念，依附于人和事物，并且出于拥有这种程度意识的本性，我们渴望通过所有构建的概念来理解我们的感知和认知。
And the reason for that is, as a self who is aware of that self, we attach to that self, we attach to the ideas of that self, we attach to people and things, and our desire to make sense of our perception and understanding through all of the concepts that we form by nature of having that degree of awareness.
然而，现实和存在却是反复无常、混乱且不确定的。
And yet, reality and existence is fickle, chaotic, uncertain.
随着时间、距离、衰败、衰老、疾病或死亡，我们将失去所有人和所有事物。
We're going to lose everybody and everything through time or distance, decay, age, or illness, or death.
因此，我们发现自己置身于一片浩瀚的宇宙之海中，波浪不断拍打我们的头部，但我们仍必须继续前行，因为我们本身也是孕育我们的同一基质的一部分，而这一基质需要延续。
And so we we find ourselves in this sort of cosmic ocean where the waves are crashing on our heads constantly, and yet we must continue because we are also a part of the same substrate that built us that needs continuation.
这使我们处于一种非常特殊的位置：我们能感受到来自有意识个体的强烈痛苦与苦难，这似乎令人难以承受，但我们却拒绝放弃。
So it puts us in this very peculiar position where we can feel the intensity and pain and suffering that seems from a conscious individual entity terrible, and yet we just refuse to give up.
我们必须坚持下去。
We must endure.
因此，这就是问题所在。
And so that's why it's problematic.
但同时，显然我也看到了这一面的另一面。在我看来，自我意识的悖论在于，自我意识、自我觉知、自我认知是已知宇宙中最可怕、最令人恐惧的事物。
But also, obviously, I see the other side of that coin, And the paradox of self awareness, in my view, is that self awareness, self consciousness, self apprehension is the most horrific, terrifying thing in the known universe.
然而，它也是已知宇宙中最美丽的事物，因为据我们所知，它是唯一能让我们对存在和现实形成概念性理解的东西。
And yet, it is the most beautiful thing in the known universe, because as far as we're aware, it's the only thing that allows conceptual understanding of existence and reality.
因此，我们能够形成美、惊奇、意义、目的和希望这些概念，而在我看来，要让后一半成为可能，前一半——硬币的另一面——必须存在于这个方程式中。
So we can form the very idea of beauty and wonder and meaning and purpose and hope, and it seems to me to be necessary that the first part, the other half of that coin, is in the equation for the second half to be possible.
是的。
Yeah.
你有句话说，自我意识是一种我们出生后便吞下的毒药。
You've got this line, self awareness is a sort of poison that we each consume upon birth.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我相信，自我意识那可怕的一面是与生俱来的，是一种毒药，但作为近乎魔法师或炼金术士的人类，我们能将其炼化为黄金，转化为艺术、美、奇迹、爱以及一切美好的事物。
I believe that's birthright is the horrific qualities of self awareness, a poison, but that we, as almost magicians or alchemists, can transmute into gold, into art, and beauty and wonder and love and all that.
因此，你会以最彻底的方式同时爱它又恨它。
And so makes you want to, you know, you love and hate it in the fullest possible form of those words at the same time.
至少，显然这是我的观点。
At least, obviously, that's my perspective.
我知道，或许有些人会认为生命和存在完全是积极而美好的。
I know maybe some people might see life and existence as purely positive and beautiful.
有些人则认为它完全是消极而恐怖的，而在这两者之间，存在着一个光谱。
Some might see it as purely negative and horrific, and somewhere in between, there's a spectrum.
但在我看来，它必须同时兼具这两者，而这正是它的悖论所在。
But in my view, it's sort of it it has to be both at the same time, and and that is the paradoxical nature of it.
你认为这其中有多少是我们各自为自身独特的世界体验，编造出的一些精妙的哲学解释？你对敬畏和恐惧都有所体会，有些人几乎全是恐惧，而有些人则几乎全是敬畏。
How much of that do you think is just us all coming up with some fancy philosophical explanation for our own idiosyncratic experience of the world that you have a bit of a grasp of the awe and a bit of a grasp of the dread, and some people are almost all dread, and some people are almost all awe.
而他们每个人都基于自身的日常情绪，构建出属于自己的世界观和宇宙观。
And each of them kind of create their own philosophical views of the world and the universe based around just, well, this is this is my typical daily affect.
这是我对待事物的典型体验。
This is my typical experience of things.
我认为，绝对不要把自己的观点、经历和思维方式普遍化。
I I I think that it's it's definitely important to not universalize your own perspective, your own experiences, and your own way of thinking.
人们很容易认为，无论从最字面的意义还是最抽象的意义上，自己的思考方式就是大多数人的方式。
It's easy to assume that the way you think, both in the most literal of sense and in the most abstract of sense, is the way most people do.
事实并非如此。
It's not the case.
人们体验和运用的思维模式有着巨大的多样性和谱系。
There's a huge spectrum and variety of modes of thought that people experience and operate through.
因此，有些人可能更偏向视觉型，有些人更偏向语言型，还有些人则更倾向于情感导向的世界观。
And so people might be more visually inclined, people might be more linguistically inclined, people might be of a more feeling orientation of the world.
仅就这一点而言，思维体验就存在着广泛的多样性和谱系。
So just on that level alone, there's a wide variety and spectrum of experience of thought.
因此，我们必须从这里开始，认识到我们自身对世界和现实的基本体验，并不会像我们所投射或假设的那样具有普遍性。
And so we have to start there, and recognizing that our own fundamental experience of the world and reality is not going to be universal in the way that we might project or assume.
如果意识是一个无法理解自身的谜团，这是否意味着人类的处境本质上是悲剧性的？
If consciousness is a mystery that can't understand itself, does that mean that the human condition is just fundamentally tragic?
这正是悖论的核心，或者说核心之一。
Well, that's at the heart, or a heart of the paradox.
我会说，这是一个多重核心的悖论。
It's a multi hearted paradox, I would say.
好的。
Okay.
因此，这确实是悲剧的一部分，或者更准确地说，是悲剧的一部分，因为我认为，从第一人称视角来看，意识本身就构成了它的极限，对吧？
So it is a part of the tragedy, or it is partly a tragedy, perhaps, a better way of putting it, in the sense that, yeah, I think that consciousness from the first person perspective, which is naturally the limit of consciousness, right?
就我所能想象的而言，不存在任何现实世界中的实体或现象，能让意识在没有其自身意识的情况下感知到自己。
You can't, as far as I could possibly conceive, there's no reality world being entity phenomenon in which a consciousness could perceive itself in the world without its consciousness.
因此，从这个意义上说，它是一个反馈循环。
And so it's a feedback loop in that sense.
因此，它会越来越接近理解自身的本质，但却永远无法突破。
And so it'll get increasingly close to comprehending the nature of itself, but it'll never breach.
这就像芝诺的箭矢悖论，它会越来越接近，但始终无限遥远。
It's sort of that Zeno's paradox of the arrow, where it'll get increasingly close, but it's always infinitely far away.
这就是我如何看待意识试图理解自身的方式。
And that's sort of how I see consciousness attempting to comprehend itself.
你能用一英寸来理解一英寸，用一分钟来理解一分钟的轻推吗？
It's like, can you make sense of an inch with an inch, a minute with a minute nudge?
这就像用自身来衡量自身。
It's just the same thing trying to measure itself with itself.
因此，从这个意义上说，这是悲剧性的；但另一方面，也正是这种特性推动了人们对意识本质、对我们人类存在的意义进行无尽的探索。
And so that is tragic in that sense, but also, on the flip side of it, it's what fuels the unending inquiry about what it means to be a conscious entity, and what it means to be, in our case, a human.
所以，如果你这样看待，这就是它的美，因为除了探索存在的本质，还有什么能赋予存在以趣味和意义呢？
And so, that's the beauty if you see it that way, because what else is there to do and make interesting about existence other than the exploration of the nature of existence?
我的意思是，也许有些人会觉得，我们只需停留在表面，喝着玛格丽特，坐在泳池边，享受生活，我完全理解这种想法。
I mean, maybe some people would think that we'll just sort of sit around the surface, and that's fun with margaritas and, you know, sit by the pool and all that, and I totally get that.
但我认为，最引人入胜的体验、最深刻的惊奇感，恰恰来自于这些探索——在我看来，那是一片无限的可能性、问题与答案的领域，它们永远不会满足，永远不会实现，永远不会抵达某个巅峰。
But I think there's something very riveting, and the deepest experiences of wonder come from those explorations that are, from my view, an infinite landscape of possibilities, questions and answers that will never satisfy, will never fulfill, will never reach some sort of peak.
这片领域是平坦的，但有太多地方值得探索。
That landscape is flat, but there's just, you know, so much territory to explore.
有没有一种方式可以实现自我觉察，而又不走向自我毁灭？
Is there a way to become self aware without it becoming self destructive?
我认为有。
I I think so.
我觉得这是一个连续谱。
I think I think that it's a spectrum.
这是一个渐变的过程，你从某种程度的自我觉察开始——我不想说这是低水平的自我觉察，因为那样会贬低它。
It's a gradient of you start from maybe a very I don't want to say a low level of self awareness because that reduces it.
并不是那样的。
It's not like that.
但也许是一种对自我觉察的反思，你能意识到这一点，然后就会经历一些困难、困惑和痛苦，它们本身就存在，而你努力去为它们找理由。
But maybe a reflectiveness about that self awareness, where you can realize that, and then it might there's a certain experience of difficulties and confusions and sufferings that they exist for themselves, and you struggle to justify them.
你努力去应对它们，我认为如果你继续走下去，会达到一个更坦然面对困惑与不确定性的阶段，你并不会变得更擅长为它们辩解。
You struggle to deal with them, and I think if you continue on that path, get to a point where you become more comfortable with the confusions and the uncertainties, and you become you don't be you don't get better at justifying them.
你并不会变得更擅长应对作为世界中一个有意识实体所面临的问题，但你会更善于认识到，缺乏答案、缺乏稳定、缺乏僵化，正是这条道路的常态，也是其美妙之处。
You don't get better at dealing with the problems of being a conscious entity in the world, but you get better at recognizing that the lack of answers, the lack of stability, the lack of rigidness is par for the Course and par for the beauty of the course.
我认为，当涉及这类话题和问题时，这正是我们应该追求的终极目标。
And that, I think, is is the ultimate goal to strive for when it comes to these sorts of topics and questions.
我认为很多人有一种感觉：他们对自己了解得越多，生活就越艰难。
I think a lot of people have this sense that the more that they learn about themselves, the more difficult life becomes.
有一种快乐和自由。
That there's a kind of enjoyment freedom.
天真中存在着一种自由，这是可以这样说的。
There's a freedom in naivety would be the way to put it.
而他们越少天真，世界就越显得充满挑战。
And that the the the less naivety that they have, the more challenging the world seems to be.
复杂性、责任、自我怀疑和自尊问题随之而来，你开始意识到自己本可以做得更好。
There's complexity and responsibility and self doubt and self esteem issues come in, and there's an awareness of what I could have done.
标准开始提升，但关于美德，这种提升的方式却有些古怪。
Standards kind of begin to rise, but in kind of squirrelly ways about virtue.
如果你有一颗批判性思维，即使你成功了，你也会发现越来越多的方式去贬低这种成功，因为你清楚地意识到自己在通往成功的路上可能撒过谎、哄骗过、胁迫过，或者没有完全做到道德高尚。
If you've got a critical mind, you find an ever increasing number of ways to derogate success even if you manage to achieve the success because you were aware of all of the ways that you might have lied or or or cajoled or coerced or not been fully virtuous on route to achieving the thing.
而以前，你只是单纯地为终于做到了而高兴。
Whereas previously, you were just happy to have fucking done it.
然后，是的，这种越来越紧的螺旋，你看待世界时越来越高的分辨率，对很多人来说感觉像是一种个人诅咒。
And then, yeah, this tighter and tighter spiral, this ever increasing resolution that you look at the world with, I think to a lot of people feels like a personal curse.
我觉得，这种自我意识的增强，似乎就等同于痛苦的增加。
I think it feels like an increase in self awareness just equates to an increase in suffering.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，首先，我理解这种反应，而且这种反应是有道理的，如果你有这样的感受，那是完全合理的。
I mean, first of all, I resonate with that reaction, and I think there's there's validity in that reaction, and if you feel that way, that's justified.
这对我来说很有道理。
That makes sense to me.
我经常有这种感觉。
I feel that way often.
我认为大多数人刚开始时都会有这种感受，就像你所说的，当他们开始揭开我们自身和我们所作所为的诸多荒谬之处时。
Think most people feel that way when they start to, like you said, unravel the absurdity of a lot of what we are and what we're doing.
或许，从人类的角度来看，存在一种更好的生存状态，它能钝化这种感受，稀释这种觉察。
And there is, perhaps, a better version of being, of existence from a human perspective that dulls that, that dilutes that.
但不幸的是，你并不能真正选择自己是否去思考这些问题，是否经历这些想法和感受。
But unfortunately, you don't really get to choose whether or not you are or are not thinking about those things, experiencing those thoughts and feelings.
所以，某种程度上，依我之见，你并不是主动‘思考’想法——想法是通过一连串的经历、神经机制等，像传送带一样自动涌入你脑海的。
So you kind of, you know, you don't think, in my view, you don't think thoughts, thoughts, you know, arrive in your head after a sort of conveyor belt of experiences and neurology and all of that.
因此，你最终不得不面对这些问题、想法和忧虑，这些想法与你的距离如此之近，以至于难以承受和应对，这可能会让你羡慕那些没有这种感受、没有这种亲近感的人。
And so you ultimately wind up with these questions and thoughts and concerns, these, you know, a certain proximity to those thoughts and concerns that become very difficult to experience and manage, and it might make you envious of the idea of not feeling that way and not experiencing that proximity.
但不幸的是，一旦你开始担心某件事，或开始思考某个问题，这个潘多拉魔盒就彻底打开了，再也无法合上。
But unfortunately, once you start worrying about something, or once you start thinking about something, that can of worms is fully opened, and you can't close it.
你必须想办法去应对它，继续向前走。
You have to figure out how to deal with it, how to move forward.
我发现，应对这类魔盒或隧道的最好方式是向前，而不是回头，因为就隧道的隐喻而言，后方的出口是封闭的。
And I find that the best way to deal with those sorts of cans of worms or those tunnels is forward, not back, because backwards, that end is closed in terms of the tunnel metaphor.
你无法回到某种过去的自己，那种尚未对这些事情产生过疑惑、质疑、深思或担忧的自己。
You can't return to some form of yourself, some version of yourself that hasn't already, you know, wondered, questioned, pondered, or become concerned about those sorts of things.
因此，我认为，如果你正经历着近乎自我疏离和自我困惑的痛苦，就绝不能把这些事情搁置一旁。
And so I see that it's quintessential to not put those things aside if you're experiencing the sufferings and pains of almost self alienation and self confusion.
你必须向前走，想办法去应对——对有些人来说，可能是通过实际而具体的策略来解决这些问题；对另一些人来说，则可能是更倾向于接纳这些感受。如果可能的话，通过接纳某些想法和经历，我发现确实可以减轻它们对你头脑和颈部造成的压力。
You have to move forward and figure out how to, in some people's cases, it's maybe resolving them through practical and tactical methodology, and in other people's cases, it might be more of an embracement of those feelings, and by embracing certain thoughts and certain experiences, if possible, I do find that you can reduce their gravity, their force on your head and neck.
那遗憾呢？
What about regret?
我认为，随着自我意识的增强，人们往往会伴随一种额外的倾向，那就是更多的反刍，一种带着感伤和怅惘的遗憾回忆。
I think one of the things that comes along as a side dish with quite a lot of quite a lot of self awareness is people's increase in rumination, sort of whimsical, wistful remembering regret.
关于遗憾，你学到了什么？
What have you learned about regret?
我认为遗憾非常有趣，因为它暗示着你本可以做得不一样。
Well, I think regret is very interesting because regret implies that you could have done differently.
在你生命中的某个特定时刻，你本可以做得更好。我理解这种冲动和情感，但如果你倒转现实的时钟，100%的情况下，你都会以同样的自己、同样的大脑、同样的生理状态、同样的信息和外部环境，再次抵达那个时刻——你根本不可能做出不同的决定。
You could have done, you know, better than you had in a particular moment of your life, which in my view, I get the impulse, I get the sentiment, but if you rewind the clock of reality, 100% of the time, you're arriving at that same moment as your same self, with the same brain, the same physiology, the same information, and the same external circumstances, there's no way you could have made any different of a decision.
因此，遗憾是一种可以理解的意识幻觉，它让我们感觉存在许多可能性，而我们会被自己的后见之明以及在时间中来回参照的能力所误导；但事实上，不存在一个你没有做出所有已做决定的世界，暂且不谈量子多重宇宙理论之类的说法。
And so, regret is sort of an understandable illusion of our consciousness, where it makes us feel like there's a lot of possibilities, and we can be deluded by our hindsight and our ability to reference back and forth between time, but there is no world in which you didn't make all the decisions you've made, putting aside maybe sort of quantum, you know, multi world theories.
但在我们所讨论和身处的这个世界里，没有任何一种版本的你本可以做出不同的选择。
But this world, the world that we're talking about and in, there's no version that you could have done anything differently.
这就引出了所谓的自由意志概念，而我个人并不相信我们通常所指的那种自由意志。
And that brings into sort of, you know, the concept of free will, which personally I don't believe in, in the sense that we typically refer to it as.
但，是的，如果你把自由意志当作方程式的一部分，即使你不这么认为，我也看不到任何世界或逻辑能合理解释遗憾的存在。
But, yeah, if you consider free will as a part of the equation, and even if you don't, I see no world, I see no logic that makes sense of regret being.
这是一种可以理解的反应，但绝非理性的反应。我知道我们在情感、感受与理性之间不断摇摆，但我只是觉得，遗憾存在于我们感知的幻象领域中。
It's an understandable reaction, but not a certainly not a rational reaction, which I know we oscillate between emotion, feeling, and logic, but I just think that, you know, regret exists in an illusory realm of our perception.
这很奇怪，因为我认为自由意志的争论属于一个特别有趣的类别。
It's a weird one because I think the free will argument is one of it's an in an interesting category.
它可能在字面上是真实的，但在比喻意义上却毫无用处——也许从宇宙大爆炸到我们此刻的对话，我们本质上就是一连串决定论的多米诺骨牌。
It's something that, like, might be literally true but figuratively useless, that it might actually be we might be a deterministic set of dominoes all the way from the big bang until this conversation right here.
但在我看来，相信这一点在功能上毫无意义。
But it's functionally pointless to believe that as far as I can see.
你需要深入到一种不执著的状态，承认我别无选择，但也不能过度滑向虚无主义和宿命论，这真的太难了。
You you need to go so deep into non attachment to I couldn't have done any differently, but you need to not overshoot into nihilism and fatalism, and it's just fucking it's too hard.
但如果我们暂时搁置关于决定论的讨论，假设如此。
But if we stay if we shelve the discussion around determinism and you say, okay.
你可以回头去看。
You you get to go back.
在你做出决定之前，你并没有做出那个决定，或者你在事后或事前做了某件事，而你希望当时能有所不同。
You didn't make a decision before you got to the point at which you made a decision, or you didn't do a thing or you did do a thing after or before you wish that you had, and you want to do it differently.
依我看来，从你的观点出发，遗憾某种程度上是一种拒绝接受预见局限性的表现。
As far as I can see, of reading your perspective, regret is kind of like a a refusal to accept the limits of foresight.
在相同条件下，你难道真的能做出不同的选择吗？而接受必然性，有助于消解遗憾。
Like, couldn't you couldn't have chosen differently under the same conditions, and an acceptance of necessity kind of helps to dissolve regret.
我觉得你说得非常好。
I think that's very well put.
我认为，而且正如你所指出的，你甚至可以暂时搁置现实可能具有决定论性质这一观点。
I think and and to your point, you could even put aside the deterministic the potential deterministic nature of reality.
在任何给定的时刻，你仍然受到同样的限制。
You're still limited by the same constraints in any given moment.
这并不意味着可能存在某种决定论的终极现实，注定会以现在这种方式展开并发生，但它确实意味着你在每一个时刻都受到一组限制的约束。
It doesn't mean that maybe there's some sort of deterministic, ultimate reality that was going to pan out the way it has and did, but it does mean that you are always limited in every moment by a set of constraints.
你的生理状态、心智状况、情绪状态、你所掌握的信息，以及你最近经历的影响，都会促使你做出决定。
Your physiology, the condition of your mind, your emotional state, the information you have, you know, the most recent influences you've experienced.
所有这些因素都会导致你做出一个决定。
All of that is going to cause you to make a decision.
至于这是否被嵌入在自然法则或现实展开的本质中，在那一刻都无关紧要。
And whether it's, you know, built into the laws or the nature of the unfolding of reality is irrelevant at that point.
你只是会一遍又一遍地做出同样的决定。
It's just you are going to make the same decision over and over again.
后悔做出这个决定，就是否认你始终受制于一组限制这一事实；除非你故意选择了一个更不可行、最糟糕的决定——当然，存在受虐倾向的人，但大多数人都是在当下尽力做出对他们而言合理的好决定，因此在这些限制下，你始终在尽最大努力，认为自己本可以做得更好是荒谬的。
To regret having made that decision is to deny the very fact that you're always going to be limited by a set of constraints, and unless you intentionally decided to make the less viable decision, the worst decision in that moment, which, I mean, obviously there are masochists and so forth, but for the most part, are trying to make good decisions that make sense to them in any given moment, and so you're always trying your best, given those constraints, it's absurd to think that you could have done or would have done any better.
正如你非常恰当地指出的，这是一种前瞻与回顾之间的平衡，你只是不断拉伸和扭曲它，以使它最符合你当前的现实。
And like you put very well, it's sort of this foresight hindsight equilibrium that you just sort of stretch and contort to make the most sense for your current reality.
我还觉得，遗憾往往指向另一个重要的点：即你生活中没有任何条件能够化解我们常常体验到的根本性矛盾——我们渴望确定性、幸福感、彻底的了结，觉得自己做出了所有正确的决定、把一切都做对了，一切尽在掌握，这种深层的渴望，我们每个人都曾有过。
And I also think another important point of what regret tends to point to is a lack of embrace around the fact that there are no conditions of your life that are going to resolve the fundamental tensions that we often experience, which is, you know, we want a sense of certainty, a sense of happiness, and ultimate resolve, sense of having made all the right decisions, having done everything right, and all these pieces are in order, that's a sort of underlying desire that we all experience.
有些人或许意识到这一点，有些人则没有，但我认为，你愿意接受自己永远无法摆脱欲望、痛苦、无聊与焦虑的‘仓鼠轮’的程度，与你对自己所做之事和人生走向感到遗憾的程度是成正比的。
Some, you know, maybe recognize that that's not going to be the case or not, but I think there's a proportional relation to how willing you are to accept that you're never going to get out of the sort of hamster wheel of desire and suffering and boredom and anxiety, and how much you might regret what you've done and how your life has gone.
本集由Whoop赞助播出。
This episode is brought to you by Whoop.
我已经佩戴Whoop超过五年了，早在它成为本节目合作伙伴之前我就在用了。
I have been wearing Whoop for over five years now, way before they were a partner on the show.
根据应用记录，我已经用它追踪了超过一千六百天的生活，这简直不可思议。
I've actually tracked over sixteen hundred days of my life with it according to the app, which is insane.
它是唯一一款我坚持使用的可穿戴设备，因为它追踪了所有重要的数据：睡眠、锻炼、恢复、呼吸、心率，甚至步数。
And it's the only wearable I've ever stuck with because it tracks everything that matters, sleep, workouts, recovery, breathing, heart rate, even your steps.
而最新的5.0版本是迄今为止最好的版本。
And the new five point o is the best version.
你依然能获得让Whoop不可或缺的所有优势：体积缩小了7%，但电池续航现在长达14天，并新增了HealthSpan功能，用于追踪你的生活习惯如何影响你的衰老速度。
You get all the benefits that make Whoop indispensable, 7% smaller, but now it's also got a fourteen day battery life and has HealthSpan to track your habits, how they affect your pace of aging.
它还为女性提供荷尔蒙洞察。
It's got hormonal insights for ladies.
我是Whoop的超级粉丝。
I'm a huge, huge fan of Whoop.
这就是为什么它是唯一一款我一直坚持使用的可穿戴设备。
That's why it's the only wearable that I've ever stuck with.
最重要的是，你可以免费加入。
And best of all, you can join for free.
你无需支付任何费用即可获得全新的Whoop 5.0手环，而且第一个月免费，还提供30天无理由退款保障。
Pay nothing for the brand new Whoop five point o strap, plus you get your first month for free, and there's a thirty day money back guarantee.
所以你可以免费拥有它。
So you can buy it for free.
免费试用一下。
Try it for free.
如果你在第29天后还不满意，他们会全额退款。
If you do not like it after twenty nine days, they just give you your money back.
现在，你可以通过点击下方描述中的链接或访问 join.whoop.com/modernwisdom 来获取全新的 Whoop 5.0 设备和三十天试用期。
Right now, you can get the brand new Whoop five point o and that thirty day trial by going to the link in the description below or heading to join.whoop.com/modernwisdom.
就是 join.whoop.com/modernwisdom。
That's join.whoop.com/modernwisdom.
你知道科马克·麦卡锡的那句话吗？
You've got that you know that Cormac McCarthy line?
你永远不知道，你的坏运气其实救你避开了怎样的更大不幸？
You never know what worst luck your bad luck has saved you from?
我不熟悉这句话，但我超喜欢。
I do not know that line, but I I love it.
我喜欢这种
I love how
我笑了。
I smile.
我超爱这句话。
Fucking love that line.
你永远不知道，你的坏运气其实救你免于更糟的运气。
You never know what worst luck your bad luck has saved you from.
这太美了。
That's beautiful.
不。
No.
我非常喜欢这句话。
I love that.
嗯，你有个关于问路人的故事，和这个挺相似的。
Well, you've got that story about the the guy asking for directions, which is pretty similar.
是的。
Yes.
所以啊。
And so yeah.
我的意思是，我写过一个叫《新星效应》的故事，也做过很多类似的探索，探讨我们根本无法分辨好运与坏运，直到故事结束——这其实是在呼应库尔特·冯内古特的一句话：在故事结束前，我们永远分不清好运与坏运，而对我们所有人来说，故事永远不会结束，直到我们不再存在。
I I mean, I've I've written a story called the Nova Effect, and I've also done a lot of similar explorations around the idea that, you know, we basically never know this is sort of playing off a Kurt Vonnegut line we never know the good luck from the bad luck until the story's over, and for all of us, the story never ends until we're not even around.
因此，在事情达到最终结局之前，你永远无法完全分辨出哪些对你或集体而言是好事，哪些是坏事。
And so, you never quite can discern what was good and what was bad for you or for a collective until it's reached its, you know, ultimation.
而且，是的，这同样适用于我们每个人的个人生活，情况是一样的。
And, yeah, that goes for each of our individual lives, where it's the same case.
在任何给定的时刻，我们都觉得好运会永远持续下去，但生活和现实并非如此运作。
It's, we feel in any given moment that good, some good fortune is going to lead ultimately to good fortune forever thereafter, but that's not how life works or reality works.
这就像衍生出多条路径：一件好事、一个优势，可能带你走向不幸或劣势，反之亦然。
It's a sort of spurring off of multiple lines that one good thing, one advantage could lead you to a misfortune or a disadvantage, and vice versa.
所以，当好事发生时，你总想感觉良好；当坏事发生时，你并不总想感到糟糕，但你最终还是会因为坏事而感到难过。
And so, there's you know, you always wanna feel good when good things happen, but there's and you always you don't always wanna feel bad when bad things happen, but you do ultimately tend to feel bad when bad things happen.
但这里有一个不同的双重现象：当你知道，好事发生时，游戏仍远未结束，生活还有很长的路要走，你就会愿意接受更多试错和种种不如意，尽管这些并不那么美好。
But there's here's the dual sided coin of a of a different phenomenon where, you know, if you know that when good things happen, it's still there's still more game to play, more life to live, you're gonna be willing to accept the potential for more trials and errors and all that, which is not so great.
但明白坏事发生时，并不意味着从此就永远不幸，这会给你带来希望，让你意识到，或许那些事最终会以某种方式拯救你。
But knowing that when bad things happen, that's not, it's not going to just be misfortune forever thereafter as well, gives you some hope, and gives you a sense of, you know, the possibility that things could be directly related to that, that ultimately save you in whatever sense save you might mean.
是的。
Yeah.
你永远不知道，更糟糕的运气其实救了你免于什么。
You never know what worse luck or bad luck has saved you from.
我今天写了一篇随笔，其实我想读给你听，因为我觉得这特别有意思。
I wrote I wrote an essay today, actually, and I wanna read you this thing because I I thought it was really interesting.
好的。
Alright.
逆境是不能浪费的宝贵东西。
Adversity is a terrible thing to waste.
你生命中几乎所有重大的成长阶段，都萌芽于你最低谷的时刻。
Almost all of the biggest periods of growth in your life have germinated from your lowest points.
一旦震惊、悲伤、哀痛和恐惧消退，更强烈的情绪便会浮现：痛苦、怨恨、苦涩、愤怒，以及一种不甘心的心态。
Once shock, grief, sadness, and fear subside, more energetic emotions arise, pain, resentment, bitterness, anger, and a chip on your shoulder.
改变很难，而根本性的改变需要巨大的推动力，远超过仅仅强烈渴望就能提供的能量。
Change is hard and deeply fundamental change requires an insane amount of activation energy, far more than is available by just wanting it a lot.
这就是为什么人们在失去父母、遭遇背叛、丢掉工作或经历分手后，会发生如此巨大的变化。
This is why people change so much after losing a parent, enduring a betrayal, losing a job, or going through a breakup.
不仅仅是因为他们过去的世界被剥夺了，而是因为他们终于获得了足够的动力，让新生活得以起飞。
Not because the past version of their world has been stripped away alone, but because they finally have enough fuel to get their new life off the launch pad.
在九十年代中期，有一位单亲母亲住在爱丁堡一个几乎贫困的家中。
In the mid nineties, there was a single mother living in a near poverty home in Edinburgh.
当她离开第一次婚姻时，并不是平静地分手。
When she left her first marriage, it wasn't a quiet parting.
她将这段关系描述为虐待。
She's described the relationship as abusive.
她带着刚出生的女儿和一个装有她正在撰写书籍早期章节的行李箱逃到了葡萄牙。
She fled to Portugal with her baby daughter and a suitcase that contained the early chapters of a book that she was working on.
有一段时间，她的前夫藏起了手稿，试图阻止她带着它离开。
At one point, her ex husband hid the manuscript trying to prevent her from leaving with it.
她患有临床抑郁症，并曾考虑自杀。
She was clinically depressed and contemplating suicide.
她付不起房租，无法正常供暖，于是推着婴儿车去咖啡馆写作，而她的女儿则在旁边睡觉。
She couldn't afford to heat her flat properly, so she pushed a pram to cafes to write while her daughter slept.
这份手稿被12家出版社拒绝了。
The manuscript was rejected by 12 publishers.
这意味有12个人以不同方式告诉她，作品不够好。
That's 12 people telling her in different ways that it wasn't good enough.
这些拒绝不是抽象的。
The rejection wasn't abstract.
而是关乎生死存亡的。
It was survival level.
如果这本书失败了，她最后重建生活的希望也就破灭了。
If the book failed, so did her last attempt at building a life.
那些拒绝带来的羞辱，反而成了推动她的动力。
The humiliation of those refusals became momentum.
J.K.罗琳后来在全球范围内售出了五亿册《哈利·波特》系列书籍，财富超过了女王。
JK Rowling went on to sell 500,000,000 copies in the Harry Potter series globally and became richer than the queen.
但这里有一个令人不安的真相。
But here's the uncomfortable truth.
并非所有的逆境都会转化为成长。
Not all adversity becomes growth.
有些人会被它压垮。
Some people are crushed by it.
逆境是燃料，而不是命运。
Adversity is fuel, not destiny.
区别在于你如何处理多余的情绪。
The difference is what you do with the surplus emotion.
如果这种能量得不到引导，就会凝结为反复思虑。
If that energy isn't directed, it curdles into rumination.
同样一种燃料，既可以推动转变，也可能导致自我毁灭。
The same fuel that could power a transformation can just as easily power self destruction.
还有一个时间窗口，因为痛苦会固化。
There's also a time window because pain calcifies.
你肩上的怨气会变成你的身份。
The chip on your shoulder becomes your identity.
发生过的事情的故事，最终会变成你是谁的故事。
The story of what happened becomes the story of who you are.
愤怒能推动你行动，但无法指引方向。
Anger gets you moving, but it can't steer.
它是火箭燃料，而不是导航系统。
It's rocket fuel, not guidance.
最终，你肩上的怨气必须转化为目标。
Eventually, the chip on your shoulder has to become purpose.
简而言之，你经历过的最糟糕的事，可能是唯一足以改变你的力量。
As a TLDR, the worst thing that's happened to you might be the only thing powerful enough to change you.
痛苦是暂时的，而燃料却很稀有。
Pain is temporary, and fuel is rare.
所以，如果你正经历艰难时刻，别浪费它。
So if you're going through a hard time, don't waste it.
你永远不知道，你的坏运气其实帮你避开了怎样的更糟命运。
You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from.
真美。
Beautiful.
我觉得这很美。
I think that's beautiful.
我很想知道，或者想问问你，你认为是什么让人能够实现这种区分，即让这种经历变成一种可消解的影响而非一种推动的力量？
I'm curious to think about or to ask you about what you think allows someone to create that differentiation or to act on that differentiation between it becoming a collapsible effect and a fueling effect?
你认为是什么让一些人能够利用这些逆境，而不是只是被动接受？
What do what do you think it it is that allows some people to to utilize those adversities versus Yeah.
请说吧。
Go ahead.
好问题。
Great question.
我总是不太愿意对这类问题给出一个精辟的哲学式答案，因为我觉得这其中的大部分都只是实际的行动。
I'm I'm always hesitant of giving some pithy philosophical answer to this stuff because I think so much of it is just practical.
少花点时间在自己身上。
Spending less time on your own.
听起来真傻。
Sounds so dumb.
你经历分手后，别总一个人待着，老兄。
You go through a breakup, spend less time on your own, man.
比如，重要的是让朋友带着塔可和冰淇淋来陪你，一起看烂片。
Like, you it's important for you to have your friends come around with tacos and ice cream and watch shit movies.
这其实是康复过程中很重要的一部分。
Like, that is an important part of the healing process.
保持忙碌很重要。
It's important for you to stay busy.
重新拾起你小时候喜欢的爱好也很重要。
It's important for you to reconnect with the hobbies that you had as a kid.
对吧？
Right?
重新开始踢足球，或者打匹克球，或者任何你喜欢的运动，比如武术或跑步，最好是和一群人一起做。
Start playing football again or or pickleball or whatever it is that you like to do, martial arts or running, whatever, and to do it in a group.
这将在很大程度上区分那些痛苦凝固、陷入停滞的人。
And that will carry a lot of the difference between somebody who that pain calcifies, and it it turns into stasis.
我所倡导的，本质上是一种行动倾向，但这种倾向适用于你的行动能力被严重削弱的时候。
Basically, what I'm pushing toward is a bias for action, but it's a bias for action when your capacity for action has been severely diminished.
所以你无法轻易采取行动。
So you can't act as easily.
你的单次最大力量已经下降了95%，你将很难举起任何东西，哪怕是最轻的重量。
Your your, one rep max has been chopped down by 95%, and you're really gonna struggle to lift anything, even the smallest weight.
当你面对一个无法承受的重量时，你该怎么办？
So what do you do when you have a weight that you can't bear?
那就把负担分摊给其他人。
Well, you spread the load between other people.
所以我认为依赖他人很重要，但更广泛的教训是，并不是每个人都有这样的人际支持，都需要以这种方式依赖他人。
So I think relying on other people but the broader lesson, not everybody has other people, needs other people in this way.
我认为更广泛的教训是：保持行动倾向。
The broad lesson, I think, is a bias for action.
比如，我该怎么说那句话呢？
Like, how can I just what's that line?
焦虑最怕变动的目标。
Anxiety hates a moving target.
对。
Right.
行动是缓解焦虑的解药，这真的太对了。
That action is the antidote to anxiety, and it's so fucking true.
听起来我可能是在逃避我的问题。
And it sounds like maybe I'm running away from my problems.
你知道的？
You know?
也许我只是把它们藏在迷雾里。
Maybe I'm hiding them in the fog.
对很多人来说，这个教训可能是准确的。
And that's a lesson that for a lot of people probably is accurate.
他们用忙碌和混乱来强迫自己不去深入思考那些本该认真面对的问题。
They they use busyness and chaos as a way to sort of force down whatever it is that they should be thinking about more deeply.
但我感觉，任何喜欢《Pursuit of Wonder》或《Modern Wisdom》的人，恰恰相反，根本就不是这个问题。
But I I I get the sense that if anybody's a fan of Pursuit of Wonder or Modern Wisdom, that that they have the opposite fucking problem.
明白吗？
Okay?
他们是沉思的大卫·戈金斯。
They're like the David Goggins of rumination.
他们是沉思的邦妮·布鲁，就是那种类型。
They're the fucking Bonnie they're the Bonnie Blue of rumination.
他们根本不需要别人告诉他们多花点时间思考。
They do not need they do not need to be told to spend more time thinking.
他们需要的是被提醒要偏向行动。
They need to be told to have a bias for action.
所以我认为，重新学会信任自己，是通过实验和实证来实现的。
So I think learning to trust yourself again is done through experimentation and and and evidence.
一旦你让这一点开始有一点进展，它就会有所帮助。
Once you've got just a little bit of that moving, that that tends to help.
我确实认为，不要害怕利用一些更消极的情绪，比如苦涩、怨恨和愤怒，这是自我意识的一个悖论或劣势——你不喜欢这些比较阴暗的情绪。
I I certainly think not being afraid to use some of the more negative emotions, some of the stuff like bitterness and resentment and anger, this is one of the paradoxes or one of the disadvantages of self awareness that you don't like these sort of darker emotions.
你认为，我应该超越这些情绪。
You think, I I should transcend these.
我应该足够超脱，不再去触碰这些情绪。
I should be sufficiently elevated that I'm not I'm not tapping into this.
这是更原始版本的我。
This is a more base version of me.
这很幼稚。
It's juvenile.
这很琐碎。
It's petty.
你知道，这是我不喜欢的自己的一种状态。
I I you know, this is a version of me that I don't like.
我明白这一点。
Going, I get that.
但你用什么让自己走到今天的？
But what did you use to get yourself here?
因为大部分时候，你很可能就是靠这种动力，但说实话，这东西挺有毒的。
Because for the most part, you probably used that kind of fuel, and then, okay, it's pretty toxic.
如果我到45岁还一直惦记着当年同学在学校里对我说的话，那确实不太对劲。
If I hold on to it for too long, I probably shouldn't still be thinking at 45 years old about what the kids said to me in school.
好吧。
Fine.
但这也意味着，你的燃料箱已经快空了，这种动力不会永远存在。
But that also means that you don't have that fuel tank anymore, and this fuel isn't gonna be there forever.
确实不会。
It it it's not.
愤怒终会平息。
The anger will subside.
怨恨会逐渐消退。
The resentment will wane.
你的苦涩最终会消散。
Your bitterness will eventually dissolve.
你会剩下什么？
What are you gonna be left with?
时间无论如何都会过去，而那是一种相当强大的动力。
You will have the time will have passed anyway, and that's some pretty fucking potent fuel.
所以我说，你就进去，也许只是轻轻敲一敲油箱内部，去
So I'd I'm saying just, you know, go in and and maybe just fucking tap tap tap inside of the fuel tank for a
一点点
little bit
是的。
Yeah.
然后好好利用它。
And and make use of it.
而且是的。
And yeah.
我看着。
I look.
你会回望这段时期，它可能成为成长初期的一股动能火花。
You're you're gonna look back on this period, and it can either be some, you know, kinetic spark at the beginning of growth.
你可以成为氢弹的启动开关，也可以自己慢慢度过这段时光，我相信这会很棒。
You can be your own primer switch for a hydrogen bomb, or you can self work your way through it, and I'm sure it'll be great.
但不。
But no.
这只是一个想法，尤其是J.K.罗琳的那个故事真的太棒了。
It was just an idea, and especially that JK Rowling story is so fucking good.
在我读到科马克·麦卡锡的那句话之后——我早就想写写这句话了——我必须得整理出点东西来。
And after I read that Cormac McCarthy quote, which I've been wanting to write about for ages, I need to fucking put something together.
这并不适用于所有人、所有情况、所有时间，但我确实觉得它非常有用。
It's not true for all people in all situations at all times, but I do think it's pretty fucking useful.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
而且我同意。
And I agree.
我的意思是，正如你所说，这显然不是对每个人在所有时候都成立，但除非你尽全力去尝试，否则你永远不知道它对你是否成立。
I mean, I think that it's, like you said, obviously not true for everybody all the time, but you don't know if it's true for you until you do everything in your power to attempt to make it so.
因此，如果你不竭尽全力去让逆境对你有意义，对你的处境和目标有意义，那你最终面对的就是零可能性。
So you ultimately are up against zero possibility by not trying to take everything in your power to make adversity worth it for you, and worth it for your circumstances and your goals.
如果你不尝试，成功的几率就是0%，而只要你尝试了，就有可能获得某种几率，让事情朝着对你有利的方向发展，将逆境转化为你一生中从未见过的最大好运。
That's a 0% chance if you don't try, and then you have some percentage of chance of things working out for you and being, you know, able to transmute that adversity into, you know, the ultimate good fortune that you've, you know, the most you've ever seen in in your life.
因此，我同意，以积极进取的心态去面对，才是唯一可行的方式。
And so I agree that approaching it from a fuel minded perspective is really the only viable way.
这也引出了一个问题：有些人是否甚至能意识到这一点？是否某些环境因素会严重制约人们，使得即使他们能分辨好运与坏运，这些外部和环境因素依然让实现逆境中的潜力变得极其困难，而持续的逆境就是其中之一。
That's also that, you know, brings up questions about whether or not certain people can even recognize that, and whether or not it's going to be, you know, there are degrees of, you know, environmental factors that weigh down on people that make it very difficult to even if they, you know, if you might recognize good luck versus bad luck is not always the end all be all, there are still, you know, there are still environmental and external factors that make it very challenging for somebody to to actualize that potentiality in adversity, and continual adversity is one of those things.
是的，老兄。
Well Yeah, dude.
我的意思是，我谈论J.K.罗琳五亿本书的幸存者偏差，这听起来都没错。
I mean, it's it's all well and good me talking about the survivorship bias of JK Rowling's 500,000,000 books.
对。
Right.
但有很多人经历的不是一次打击，而是一连串的打击，频繁到连最轻的负担都几乎扛不动。
But there is a lot of people that have not just one kick in the nuts, but a series of them that are, you know, so frequent that their ability to even lift the lightest weight kind of gets degraded.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但另一种选择就是彻底倒下。
But, I mean, the alternative is is to just keel over.
这可是我说的，作为一个过去几年被狠狠踢过很多次的人。
And this is, you know, me saying it as a guy that's been kicked in the nuts a lot over the last couple of years.
你实际上只有两个选择：一个是放弃，另一个就是做完全相反的事。
Like, you literally do have only two choices, and one of them is to give up, and the other one is to do whatever the opposite of that is.
去他的，伙计。
And fuck that, dude.
天哪。
Jesus Christ.
绝对去他的。
Like, absolutely fuck that.
那种反抗黑暗消逝的愤怒是什么？
What's that rage rage against the dying of the light?
没错。
Yep.
你还不如这么做，因为你根本没什么别的可做，而时间无论如何都会流逝。
You might as well because you you because you've got literally got nothing else to do, and the fucking time is gonna pass in any case.
是的。
Yeah.
所以你还不如放手一搏。
So you might as well send it.
我完全同意。
I agree a 100%.
我认为认识到幸存者偏差很重要，但作为个体，也要意识到如果你还活着，某种程度上你就是幸存者，只要还活着，就有希望。
I think it's important to recognize survivorship bias, but also to recognize as an individual that if you're still alive, you're a survivor in some sense, and as long as you're alive, there's hope.
好吧，让我告诉你这一点。
Well, let me give you this one.
你知道幸存者偏差最极端的反向是什么吗？
You know what the fucking ultimate inversion of the survivorship bias is?
每一个放弃的人。
Every person that gave up.
对。
Right.
对吧？
Right?
每一个达到幸存者状态的人，都是为那些没有放弃的人留下的标记。
Every person that reaches survivorship bias is a mark on the wall for somebody that didn't give up.
而且
And
当然。
Absolutely.
当然。
Absolutely.
如果你想确保自己不属于幸存者偏差的群体，只要放弃就行了，那也没关系。
If you want to guarantee that you are not a part of the survivorship bias numbers, you can just give up, and that would be fine.
而且，这又带来了一种压力。
And, again, that creates a pressure.
我明白这会让人们忍不住骂脏话。
I understand that that makes people go, fuck.
所有责任都在我身上，这不公平，生活很难，对她来说更难。
It's all on me, and that's not fair, and things are hard, and it's harder for her.
对她来说没我这么难，而我却有这个负担。
Wasn't as hard for her as it is for me, and I've got this thing.
明白。
Get it.
我明白了。
I get it.
但我希望看到你成功，我宁愿看到你成功但身处不适，也不愿看到你失败然后彻底垮掉。
But I wanna see you win, and I would rather see you win and be in discomfort than see you lose and fucking keel over.
所以。
So
百分百。
A A 100%.
我的意思是，你完全可以同时持有这两种想法。
I I mean, I think there's you you can carry both those thoughts in the same head at the same time.
你可以认识到存在幸存者偏差。
You can recognize that there is a survivorship bias.
许多尽全力尝试的人将会持续面临逆境，而结果却未必如愿。
A lot of people who try fully to the maximum ability are going to face continual adversity, and it's not going to pan out.
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你也可以意识到，作为个体，最好不要过分重视这种情况。
And you can also recognize that as an individual person, it's better to not weigh that case heavily.
更好的做法是更重视J的情况。
It's better to weigh the cases of the J.
K。
K.
罗琳的情况，更应该被着重看待，以此来平衡这种动态，激励你竭尽全力，继续前行，让那些让生活从混乱中找到意义的事情变得更加可行、更加可能。
Rowling's more heavily in the pursuit of the counterbalance of that dynamic to inspire you to try everything you can and to continue forward towards what makes, you know, meaning out of the chaos of your life more viable, more possible.
在我看来，要做到这一点——我知道这里可能带点语气，但无论如何，只要你有目标、有优先级、有对意义的追求、有方向感，就像你说的，你有你的时间，只要时钟还没停，灯光还没熄灭，就继续为那些你真正在乎、对你有意义、值得追求的事情坚持下去，而这些事情并没有固定的标准。
And to do that, in my view, and this is I recognize there's, you know, maybe a tone here, but to do that until the bitter end, you know, if you want to do anything, and you have preference, a priority, a sense of meaning, an orientation toward meaning, whatever, you like you said, you have your time, and until the clock goes to zero, until the lights turn out, there's still, like, just just keep going for whatever it is that you care about, and whatever it is that makes sense to you and is worthwhile, and there's no prescription to what that might be.
这种意义和价值的来源，未必需要是某种社会层面的惊人成就。
What that source of meaning and worthwileness need not be some sort of, you know, ungodly achievement from a societal level.
它可能是一段美好的关系、一个温馨的家庭，也可能是一种简单宁静的生活，无论对你而言是什么，只要是为了实现它、最大化它、维护它，无论面对什么困难，你都有属于你的时间，应该明智地利用它来实现它。
It could be a beautiful relationship, a beautiful family, it could be a simple, quiet life, whatever it is for you to to continue onward towards achieving that, maximizing that, working towards the maintenance of that, whatever you're up against, you have your time, and you ought to use it wisely to to manifest that.
在我们继续之前，我非常支持减少酒精摄入，但历史上，无酒精啤酒的味道简直像屎。
Before we continue, I am a massive fan of reducing your alcohol intake, but historically, nonalcoholic brews taste like ass.
你不需要来一次大 reset。
You don't need to be doing some big reset.
也许你只是想喝一瓶冰镇啤酒，却不想第二天早上感觉糟透了，这正是我如此推崇 Athletic Brewing Co 的原因。
Maybe you just want to crack a cold one without feeling like garbage the next morning, which is why I am such a huge fan of Athletic Brewing Co.
他们有 50 款无酒精啤酒，包括 IPA、淡色艾尔，甚至还有鸡尾酒灵感的 Paloma 和莫斯科骡子等限量款。
They've got 50 types of NAs, including IPAs, Goldens, and even limited releases like a cocktail inspired Paloma and Moscow Mule.
关键是这一点。
And here's the thing.
你可以随时喝它们。
You can drink them anytime.
深夜、清晨、看球赛、打球，都没关系。
Late nights, early mornings, watching sports, playing sports, doesn't matter.
没有宿醉。
No hangover.
毫无妥协。
No compromise.
这就是我与他们合作的原因。
And that is why I partnered with them.
你可以在附近的杂货店或酒类商店找到Athletic Brewing Co的畅销系列，或者更好的选择是，直接订购包含四种口味的完整混装包，送货上门。
You can find Athletic Brewing Co's best selling lineup at grocery or liquor stores near you, or best option, get a full variety pack of four flavors shipped right to your door.
现在，通过访问下方描述中的链接或前往athleticbrewing.com/modernwisdom，你可以享受首次在线订购15%的折扣。
Right now, you can get 15% off your first online order by going to the link in the description below or heading to athleticbrewing.com/modernwisdom.
网址是athleticbrewing.com/modernwisdom。
That's athleticbrewing.com/modernwisdom.
既然我们永远无法跳出自己的思维，这该如何改变我们对待信念的方式？
Given the fact that we can never step outside of our own minds, how should that change the way that we treat our beliefs?
我认为，我当然同意这样一个事实：我们不仅无法跳出自己的思维，而且这一事实蕴含着巨大的意义。
I think that and I've obviously agree with the fact that, you know, there's not only can we not step out of our own minds, but there's a huge implication to that.
在我看来，由于这一事实，我们永远无法获得客观真理。
We will never obtain objective truth, in my view, as a consequence of that fact.
因此，我相信，谦逊以及对不确定性的近乎热爱，才是面对这一现实的唯一恰当反应——因为你根本无法摆脱自己思维的隧道视野，而你的思维本身早已被特定的地理、文化与历史条件所塑造。据你所知，若倒回历史长河，每一个时代都呈现出相似的无知、徒劳与错误的组合。
And so, I believe that humility and almost a love of uncertainty is the only appropriate response to the fact that there's just no way that you can get out of the tunnel vision of your mind, your specific mind, and then your own mind has sort of been molded and mapped according to a particular condition of geography, of culture, of history, and there's been no moment as far as you know, if we sort of rewind the clock, every stage of history has presented a similar ensemble of ignorance, of futility, of wrongness, all that.
因此，你必须认识到，作为个体，作为集体，在任何时间、任何空间，我们都面临着一种被扭曲、被雕琢的现实观，这种视角如同针孔般狭小；而持有僵化的信念、追求确定性，我认为是对这种状况的不当回应。
And so you must recognize that as individuals, and as a collective, at any given time, in any given space, we're up against this contorted, chiseled out view of reality that's a pinhole size, and to have rigid beliefs, have a sense of certainty, I think is a less than ideal response to that condition.
但这并不意味着人们在思考、感受和相信的一切事情上都必须模棱两可。
And this isn't to say that someone ought to be totally nebulous about everything they think, and feel, and believe.
你可以在生活中充满信念与自信，同时又不固执地将任何信念或信念体系视为最终定论。
You can be convictive and confident in life, while also not ever being dead set and final about a belief or set of beliefs.
因此，存在一种自信与信念的本质，能够贯穿于各种思想与信念之中；真正重要的不是某个具体的信念，而是持续探索、保持好奇、开放与谦逊的态度。
And so there's a sort of essence of confidence and conviction that can carry through across a spectrum of ideas and beliefs, and the importance is not the individual belief, but the continuation of exploration and curiosity and openness and humility.
我个人认为，这种品质——姑且这么说——是一种根本性的智慧。
I feel personally that that's a sort of essential fundamental quality, for lack of better words, a sort of wisdom.
那关于选择焦虑呢？
What about choice anxiety?
因为我感觉，那些具有高度自我觉察的人——我们之前也提到过——我知道自己本可以做得更好。
Because I I get the sense that people who have a lot of self awareness again, we've sort of touched on, I know how much better I could have been.
我知道摆在自己面前的种种可能性。
I I know all of the different optionality that lays out in front of me.
作为一个高度自我觉察的人，你是如何开始思考减少选择焦虑的？
How'd you come to think about netting down choice anxiety as a deeply self aware person?
你是在说所谓的选择悖论，对吧？
You you're sort of referring to the paradox of choice, if you will.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yep.
说实话，我不知道有没有一个好的答案，因为首先，我自己也在为此挣扎。
See, I don't know if I have a good answer to that, because first of all, I struggle with it.
我认为应对选择焦虑最好的方式，是意识到你的欲望在什么程度上不再为你服务。
I think the best way to deal with choice anxiety is to recognize the degree of your, you know, at what point are your desires no longer serving you?
一旦你认识到这个上限，你就需要考虑的选择数量就会减少。
And if, once you recognize that ceiling, the amount of choices that you need to consider can reduce.
如果我认为自己正处在一条无限循环的欲望-满足-欲望-满足的传送带上，那么就有无限多的选择可以满足或参与这个循环现象。
So if I think that, you know, I'm on an infinite conveyor belt of desires and satisfaction desire satisfaction over and over and over, then there's an infinite number of choices that can satisfy or can play into that conveyor belt phenomenon.
但如果你意识到，生活中你的最低体验质量是有一定限度的，你就可以开始将决策导向更少的选择，原因并非仅仅是——比如你去超市时，麦片和其他商品的选择看似无穷无尽，虽然实际上并非真正无限。
But if you recognize that there is a certain limit to which your minimum quality of experience is achieved in life, you can start to redirect your decision making towards a smaller number of options for different reasons than just like, you know, if you go to a grocery store, you could there's obviously an infinite number not nearly, I mean, there's not literally, but nearly an infinite number of choices of cereal and everything else.
如果你把麦片当作生活质量的合理象征，你可能会在那排货架前站上一整天。
And if you regard cereal as a reasonable proxy of your quality of life, you might stand in that aisle forever.
但如果你意识到麦片并不能提升你的生活质量，你就会随便选一种然后离开，接着你会意识到，生活中其他领域依然存在决策困难，你仍会反复思虑和挣扎，但通过认识到决策对体验质量的提升存在一个上限，你可以减少那些真正与你相关的决策数量。
But if you recognize that cereal is not going to serve you, it's not going to serve your quality of life, then you pick one and move on, and then you recognize that there is still a difficulty around decision making in other areas of your life that you're going to ruminate on and struggle with, but you can reduce the amount of decisions that are relevant to you by recognizing this sort of ceiling around how much your decisions are going to change the quality of your experience.
我坚信，做决策的目的更应该是让我能够持续前行。
I'm somebody who believes that it's much more like, I want to make decisions that allow me to keep going.
我所说的持续前行，既指最字面、最基础的意义，也包含更抽象的层面——也就是说，我希望在做决定时，能将我的觉知与欲望分离开来，这样我才能找到让我每天早上愿意起床、依然有所在乎的东西。
And I mean that in both the most basic literal sense and then sort of a more abstract sense, which is, you know, I want to decouple my awareness from my desire when I'm making decisions about what's going to allow me to get up in the morning and still care.
同时，我也希望找到能让我持续获得动力的方式，正如你在文章中所说的那样。
And then also, what's going to allow me to experience some continual fuel, as you put it in your essay.
因此，除非你能来回穿梭于对决策的前瞻焦虑与事后的遗憾之间，否则根本无法彻底摆脱选择悖论和决策焦虑。
And so, there's no clean way of totally absolving yourself from the paradox of choice and the anxiety around decision making, unless you sort of you can kind of oscillate back and forth between the foresight of, or the anxiety around decision making and the hindsight of regret.
你可以借助自己的遗憾，来提醒自己此刻的焦虑是多么荒谬。
You can refer to your regrets to remember the absurdity of your anxiety right now.
但我明白，那里可能有些不切实际。
But I understand there's maybe a degree of impracticality there.
但我确实认为，只要意识到生活中每一个选择——从汽车、麦片、衣服，到伴侣、朋友、职业——你都可以通过认识到其中大部分并不在你关心的范围内，来逐步缩小范围。
But I do think that just recognizing that there is, like, every option in life for everything, from cars to cereal to clothes to relationship partners to friends to careers, you can start to chisel those down by recognizing that so much of that is not what you care about.
然后，你决定自己关心什么，或者最终你会关心那些你真正在意的东西，接着你把这些剔除出去，剩下的决策可能性依然很多，但或许变得稍微可控一些。
And, you know, you decide what you care about, or you end up caring about what you care about, but then you chisel those things out, and you're still left with a huge chunk of decision making possibilities, but it's maybe a little bit more manageable.
奥利弗·伯克曼提出了这个问题。
Oliver Berkman had this question.
你该对多少事情在意呢？
How much should you care about things?
我不确定，但我很确定，不该时时刻刻对所有事情都尽可能地在意。
I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure it's not as much as possible about everything all of the time.
是的。
Yeah.
我喜欢这个说法。
I love it.
我觉得是的。
And I I think yeah.
这就是过度优化者的诅咒。
The the that's like the curse of the over optimizer.
嗯。
Mhmm.
就是对每件事、每个机会都如此。
Somebody who just for everything at every opportunity.
我有个朋友特别热衷于信用卡积分。
I have a friend who is huge into credit card points.
他坐不同的航空公司，都知道该用哪张卡订哪趟航班。
You go every different airline, and he knows to use this card for this flight.
如果他去这家超市购物，还能额外获得3%的返利。
And then if he goes to this supermarket, he can get an additional 3%.
这样他就能免费为全家人订机票，还有其他各种好处。
And then he gets to fly for his whole family for free and all of this stuff.
他最好的朋友之一是最简单的人。
One of his best friends is the most simple person.
哦，你一定有一个像那位共同朋友那样复杂的系统吧。
Like, oh, you must have a complex system just like just like a mutual friend.
他却说：不。
He's like, no.
我只是意识到，我必须有意识地在某个领域放松优化，而这就是其中之一。
I I I just decided that there was an area I had to consciously be deoptimized in, and and that was just one of the ones.
我不能事事都追求最优。
I can't I can't pick it for everything all of the time.
这样做的好处是，当你做出一个重大决定——彻底不管这件事时，所有相关的次要决定都会随之消失。
And the advantage of that is when you make the big decision around, I'm not going to bother about this at all, all of the sub decisions fall away if you can sort of relinquish it.
放手本身有一种力量。
And there is a there is a power in sort of letting go.
这就像任何人经历过一段糟糕关系后都会有的感觉：那件事，以及围绕它的一切决策和反复思虑，其实都没在为我服务。
It's the same sensation anybody's had if they've left a bad relationship that they go, that that thing and all of the decisions and all of the rumination around it wasn't serving me.
通过放下它，我感到自由了。
And by letting go of it, I feel liberated.
这难道不很棒吗？
Isn't that great?
所以，是的，这真是种奇特的混合。
So, yeah, it's it's a funny it's a funny blend for that.
我想你刚才提到了焦虑。
I think you mentioned anxiety there.
你认为焦虑是否只是清晰看待现实并成为深度思考者的自然结果呢？
Do you think anxiety is just the natural consequence of seeing reality clearly and being a deep thinker then?
我甚至会说，你不必再额外加上‘深度思考者’这部分。
I would even go so far to say that you don't have to add that that last part about being a deep thinker.
我认为，只要对现实有任何程度的觉察，焦虑就是一种根本性的后果，而且程度只会随之加剧。
I would think anxiety is a sort of fundamental consequence of being aware of reality on any level, and it only goes up from there.
我知道有些人经历的焦虑更严重，但认为一个人可以活着而没有焦虑——这其实是我在投射自己的经验，将其普遍化，并假设所有人都一样，我意识到这一点。
I know that people have worse cases and experiences of anxiety, But the idea that somebody could live and not and this is me projecting my, you know, own experience, universalizing it, and assuming everybody's the same, and I recognize that.
但我真的很难想象，从人类的角度来看，焦虑不是意识和自我意识的一种基本构成要素。
But I do find it very hard to imagine that anxiety is not a sort of building block of consciousness and self awareness from a human perspective.
因为一切——我的意思是，当我们谈论决策时，我们在谈论后悔、逆境，所有这些事情，都是混乱与不确定性的大杂烩，而单一的视角框架试图去控制和理解这一切。
Because everything, I mean, when we're talking about decision making, we're talking about regrets, we're talking about adversity, all these things, Everything is this hodgepodge of chaos and uncertainty that a singular framework of perspective is trying to control and make sense of.
还有什么比这更令人焦虑的呢？
And what could be more anxiety inducing than that?
试图将一片可能性的海洋过滤成一个微小的、你懂的，针孔般的欲望、偏好、希望和理想化。
Trying to filter an ocean of possibility into a tiny, you know, pinhole of desire, and preference, and hope and idealization.
所以我认为，如果你就是那个针孔，有太多值得担忧的事情了。
So I would think that if you're if you're that pinhole, there's a lot to be worried about.
嗯。
Mhmm.
嗯。
Mhmm.
追求真理真的是为了真理，还是更多地为了某种心理上的安全感呢？
Is the pursuit of truth really about truth or or more about sort of a psychological security then?
对我来说，我们对真理的追求是一种对未来的不确定性所产生的恐惧反应。
It it feels to me like our desire for truth is a fear response to the uncertainty of the future.
我完全同意。
I absolutely agree.
是的。
Yeah.
我认为，个人而言，人类所做的一切，人类历史上所做的一切，本身都不是目的，而是基于某种偏好。
I think that personally, I think that everything that humans do, and humanity has done, is never in and of itself, it's never for itself, it's based on some preference.
因此，对真理的渴望并不是因为我们真正在乎真理本身。
And so, the desire for truth is not because we care so much about truth.
在我看来，这是因为我们更在乎真理能为我们带来什么——那就是缓解存在的不确定性和不可知性，以及我们与之的关系。
In my view, it's because we care so much about what truth will provide us, and that is a quelling of the uncertainty and the unknowability of existence and our relationship with it.
我们希望知道一切都会好起来，不仅是现在，而且永远如此。
We want to know that everything is going to be okay, both now and forever thereafter.
这就是天堂存在的原因，宗教存在的原因，哲学存在的原因。
That's why heaven exists, that's why religions exist, that's why philosophies exist.
因此，追求真理是一种试图将天堂拉入现实、让当下变得有意义的尝试，以便我们作为有意识的个体能够感到安心。
And so, the pursuit of truth is an attempt to bring down the heavens and make it make sense right now, so that we can feel comfortable as conscious beings.
所以，不，在我看来，真理本身并不是一种纯粹的渴望。
And so, yeah, no, truth is not, in my view, a desire in and of itself.
它只是出于消除不确定性和不可知性这一欲望而产生的某种替代性副产品。
It's a sort of proxy byproduct of the desire to produce uncertainty and unknowability.
我们稍后继续讨论。
We'll get back to talking in just one second.
但在那之前，如果你最近感觉有些迟钝，那可能是你的睾酮水平出了问题。
But first, if you have been feeling a bit sluggish, your testosterone levels might be the problem.
它们在你的精力、专注力和表现中起着至关重要的作用，但大多数人根本不知道自己的水平是多少，也不知道出了问题该怎么做。
They play a huge role in your energy, focus, and performance, but most people have no idea what theirs are or what to do if something's off.
这就是我选择与Function合作的原因——我希望找到一种更智能、更全面的方式来真正了解自己身体内部发生了什么。
Which is why I partnered with Function because I wanted a smarter and more comprehensive way to actually understand what's happening inside of my body.
他们每年两次进行实验室检测，监测超过100项生物标志物，并有一支专家医生团队分析数据，为你提供切实可行的建议，以改善健康和延长寿命。
Twice a year, they run lab tests that monitor over 100 biomarkers, they've got a team of expert physicians that analyze the data and give you actionable advice to improve your health and lifespan.
看到你的睾酮水平以及其他数十种生物标志物在一年内的变化趋势，并获得切实可行的建议来真正改善它们，能为你提供一条明确的路径，让你的生活变得更好。
Seeing your testosterone levels and dozens of other biomarkers charted across the course of a year with actionable insights to genuinely improve them gives you a clear path to making your life better.
通常情况下，进行这样的血液检测和分析需要花费数千美元，而且过程会非常麻烦。
Getting your blood work drawn and analyzed like this would usually cost thousands and be a nightmare.
但通过Function，只需499美元，现在还能再减100美元，最终价格低至399美元。
But with Function, it's just $499, and now you can get an additional $100 off, bringing it down to $399.
获取我和我使用的完全相同的血液检测套餐，通过下方描述中的链接或访问functionhealth.com/modernwisdom，即可节省100美元。
Get the exact same blood panels that I get and save a $100 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom.
网址是functionhealth.com/modernwisdom。
That's at functionhealth.com/modernwisdom.
我在思考那种焦虑感，我想愤怒也是如此，它有点像一种焦虑情绪。
I'm thinking about that anxiety, and I guess anger as well, which is kind of a little bit like anxiety emotion.
焦虑某种程度上是静止的愤怒，而愤怒则是带有焦虑色彩的情绪。
Anxiety is anger at rest in a way, and and anger is anxiety emotion.
焦虑似乎源于有远见却缺乏控制力，而愤怒则是对控制的渴望遭到挫败。
Seems like anxiety arises because of, foresight without control, and then anger is desire for control that gets denied.
我想知道，你逐渐了解到如何化解或减轻这种愤怒和焦虑吗？
And I'm wondering what what you've come to learn about how to sort of dissolve or reduce the anger and the anxiety in that way?
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，它们非常紧密地交织在一起，如果你开始意识到，我可能会把愤怒更紧密地与类似遗憾的情绪联系起来。
So I mean, they're they're pretty tightly intertwined where if you start to recognize maybe I I would intertwine anger more closely with something like regret.
因为一旦你认识到遗憾的荒谬性，并以更长远的眼光看待过去发生的事情，就会发现很多愤怒的根源在于，当时你经历的事件其实是你无法控制的。
Because if you start to recognize the absurdity of regret, and your ability to control the way things have gone with a greater distance in time, there are many cases of anger in which it might be in real time that you're experiencing an event, but it was an event that you couldn't have controlled.
因此，同样地，虽然在当下平息愤怒要困难得多，但我发现，通过认识到你对除自己之外的一切——甚至包括你自己——都缺乏控制，可以逐渐消减愤怒的锋芒，这会带来一种不同的认知层面，当然，我们不一定非要走到那一步，也能同样有力地说明这个观点。
And so, in the same way, it's a much more difficult thing to quell in the moment, but you can sort of start to shave off the edges of anger, I find, by recognizing your lack of control over everything else besides yourself, and perhaps even yourself, and that takes it to a different degree, we don't need to, you know, necessarily take it there for the same point to be cogent.
不。
No.
我认为，对你自己的失控，正是之前提到的遗憾的核心，甚至那种被决定论观点‘切除’掉的遗憾。
I think the the the lack of control over yourself is the regret point from earlier on, even the one that's been lobotomized from the fucking deterministic view Mhmm.
从宇宙的视角来看，我是在对自己生气。
Perspective of the universe, that I'm angry at me.
我本该做得不一样。
I should have done differently.
你说得对。
Is you're right.
你说得对，这更接近于后悔。
You're you're right to say that it it it's closer to regret.
就是，我本该做得不一样。
It's like, I should have done differently.
但你并没有。
Well, you didn't.
你没有，而你正试图激励自己未来做得更好。
You didn't and you're trying to motivate yourself to do it more in future.
我明白。
I understand.
如果你的大脑放大了上一次错误带来的痛苦。
And if your brain ramps up the pain of the lesson from the last mistake that you made Mhmm.
你会确保自己不会再犯那个错误。
You will make sure that you don't make that mistake again.
这基本上就像是把手指放在炉子上那种存在主义心理学上的等价物。
It's basically a existential psychological equivalent of I put my hand on that stove.
我差点就碰到了。
I I close to this.
我五岁的时候被狗咬过。
I got bit by a dog when I was five.
教训就是别靠近狗。
The lesson is don't go near dogs
嗯。
Mhmm.
从此以后都这样。
For the rest of rest of time.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这就是我们的大脑试图教给我们的，而这种教训的强度、他妈的音量，与我们认为它有多重要以及当时我们有多痛苦成正比。
That is what our brain is trying to teach us, and the sort of amplitude, the fucking volume of the lesson is proportional to how important we think it was and how much pain we were in at the time.
如果你正经历巨大的痛苦，然后意识到你正在通过鞭策自己屈服来加剧这种痛苦，仿佛用九尾鞭抽打自己来提醒你，你可能会想，某种程度上，你反而能爱上这部分自己。
And if you're in a lot of pain and then you realize that you are making the pain worse by trying to sort of whip yourself into submission so that you will be reminded you've cat of nine tails your way through this thing, you think, well, in some ways, you can kind of love that part of you.
这是件好事。
That is a good thing.
爱上这一点真是太他妈酷了。
That's a really fucking cool thing to love.
非常感谢你努力保护我。
Thank you so much for trying to keep me safe.
我明白我自身是有缺陷的、一团糟的，而且我不断重复犯着同样的错误。
I understand that I'm fallible and fucked up, and I consistently make apparently the same mistakes over and over again.
这些错误真的有着很棒的、他妈的连续传承，常常是类似的事情，我懂了。
And they really have a great, like, fucking consecutive lineage of often being similar sorts of things, and I I get it.
你是在努力保护我。
You're trying to keep me safe.
谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢你努力保护我。
Thank you for trying to keep me safe.
谢谢你试图让我从我的行为坚决不肯察觉的教训中学习，嗯。
Thank you for trying to make me learn a lesson that my actions insist on not fucking detecting Mhmm.
并且不去更新自己。
And not updating themselves from.
这真是太好了。
That's that's great.
愤怒是一种如此全面而强烈的情绪。
It's just it's such a fucking all encompassing emotion, anger.
所以在愤怒中试图理性思考并不容易。
So trying to think rationally when you're in it is not easy.
确实不容易。
It's definitely not.
你认为愤怒对于你刚才描述的情况是必要的吗？还是说，你可以在不完全让愤怒充满内心的情况下，依然有这种反应？
Do you think that anger is necessary for what you just described, or do you think you can have that response without necessarily anger the anger tank, so to speak, filling all the way up?
我想这取决于情况。
I guess it depends.
很多人会把愤怒转化为其他情绪。
A lot of people convert anger into other emotions.
对。
Right.
很多时候，这些人在小时候是不被允许表达愤怒的。
And a lot of the time, these are people who for whom anger wasn't allowed as a kid.
在家里，愤怒是不被允许的。
It wasn't allowed in the household.
他们没有一个可以安全表达愤怒的空间。
There wasn't a safe place to express anger.
是的。
Mhmm.
也许父母本身很脆弱，或者过于严厉，或者自己就有愤怒问题，又或者父母缺席，无法为他们提供情绪支持。
Maybe there was a fragile parent or an overly disciplinarian parent or a parent who had anger problems of their own or an absent parent who couldn't really hold that for them.
我认为，如果你内心有什么在翻腾，这一点对人们来说真的很重要。
And you need I I I think it's really important for people to understand if if there's something burbling inside of you.
这个世界基本上可以分为两类人。
The the world is basically split into two kinds of people.
一类人会生气，另一类人会悲伤，但这两种情绪都源自同一个地方。
There's people who get mad and people that get sad, but both of them are generated from the same place.
愤怒要么向外表达，要么向内压抑。
Like, the anger gets turned outward or the anger gets turned inward.
而被压抑的愤怒，并不是愤怒的本职。
And, the anger that gets turned inward, that's not the job of anger.
从进化角度看，愤怒的职责是：你越界了，对吧。
The job of anger evolutionarily is you crossed a boundary Mhmm.
而周围又没有警察在场。
And there's no police force around.
所以我会以一种方式行事，让你明白你不能再这样做了，也让其他旁观者知道，他们不能像你那样欺负我。
So I'm gonna behave in a way that shows you that you can't do it again and shows anybody else who's watching that they can't fuck with me in the same way that you did.
因为我们这里没有武力执法，所以我对你的情绪反应会告诉你，你越界到了什么程度。
Because we don't have a law of swim force there, so my emotional response to you is gonna show you how far you crossed over the line.
这种事不会再发生了。
It's not gonna happen again.
这就是愤怒的职责所在。
That's that that's the the job of anger.
所以当人感到悲伤而非愤怒时，通常是因为你被抑制了——我的意思是，每个人都被抑制了表达愤怒的冲动。
So for the when it's sad, not mad, it's usually because you were disincentivized in a I mean, everybody's disincentivized from being angry.
对吧？
Right?
因为愤怒是一种非常反社会的行为。
Like, it's a very antisocial behavior.
这是一种非常反社会的表现。
It's a very antisocial thing.
悲伤是亲社会的。
Sadness is prosocial.
人们会过来给你一个拥抱。
People come and give you a hug.
愤怒是反社会的。
Anger is antisocial.
它会让人们躲开。
It makes people run away.
但应该为它留一个出口。
But there should be a container for that.
如果你不学会表达，就会以一种非常冗长的方式导致很多人虽然愤怒却感受不到愤怒。
And if you don't learn it there's a lot very long winded way of saying lots of people are angry, but don't feel anger.
他们会把愤怒转化成其他东西。
And they turn it into other things.
他们会把愤怒变成怨恨、焦躁、愤懑、抑郁、焦虑，比如对自己、对他人、对世界或政治的种种不满。
They turn it into bitterness, agitation, resentment, depression, anxiety, like frustrations at at at themselves and at other people and at and at the world or politics or, you know, whatever.
所以我不认为你需要愤怒。
So I don't think that you need anger.
我甚至会说，愤怒可能更具扭曲性，因为它就像是最原始、未经提炼的燃料。
I would actually go as far as to say that maybe anger is a bit more warping because it's so it's it's the fucking raw uncut version of the fuel.
如果你能让它稍微平息一点，我认为你能做出更好的决定。
And if you can have it just bubble down a little bit, I think you can make better decisions.
我是说做决定时，有没有哪种情绪比使用愤怒更糟糕？比如性欲。
Making decision I mean, is there any emotion that's worse to use to make maybe being horny.
也许在试图认清自己时，性欲是比愤怒更糟糕的情绪。
Maybe being horny is the only worse emotion to utilize when trying to orient yourself than anger is.
是的。
Yeah.
我想不出还有多少种更糟的了。
I I can't think of many more.
对。
Yeah.
我也没想到别的。
Nothing come to mind for me either.
我觉得那两个可能是最顶尖的。
I think those are are probably the the two at the top of
末日四骑士中的两位。
Two the two horsemen of the apocalypse.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
但我觉得你这么说非常好。
But I think I think that's super well put.
我认为愤怒确实有实际的应用价值，如果仅仅假设你永远不该生气，那等于是在让自己陷入被利用、永远无法向自己和他人传达哪些事情不对、哪些界限被跨越的境地。
I think that there's absolutely a practical application for anger, and to to just assume that you should never be angry is you're cursing yourself for a life of being taken advantage of and never signaling to yourself and others when things are wrong and when things have been crossed in terms of your boundaries and lines.
我个人认为愤怒可以分为不同类别：一种是对那些可以纠正的人或事的愤怒，另一种则是对存在本身、对那些无法改变的事物的愤怒——比如生活中某些不幸的发生，并非任何人有意针对你，也没有任何有意识的个体或群体希望这些事发生在你身上，因此你根本无从愤怒于任何人或群体。
There is a separate category of anger I personally would categorize, you know, there's the anger towards people and things that can be corrected, and then there's anger towards existence, or things that can't, you know, components of life that things have gone wrong in your life that nobody intended towards you, nobody did that to you, no conscious being or group was like, I want this to happen to you, and so there's no person or group to be angry at.
这就是不幸的本质，至少就你迄今为止的人生经历而言。
There's just the nature of misfortune, at least insofar as you've experienced up until this point in your life.
因此，这种弥漫性的愤怒，与有人直接对我或某个群体对我所归属的群体造成具体负面行为时的愤怒，其影响截然不同——那种行为界限清晰，我们作为人可以达成共识，这种愤怒才是有建设性的。
And so that sort of blanketed anger has a much different ramification than if somebody does something to me directly, or a group does something to a group that I associate with that is tangibly negative, that is reasonably you know, a line is reasonably drawn between that act, and we can agree on that as people, then then that anger is productive.
但那种只是在你后脑勺、脖子和脊椎深处低鸣振动的愤怒，这种愤怒我认为完全是无益的。
But anger of just sort of the the humming and vibration in the back of your your skull and neck and spine, I mean, that's that's an anger that I think is totally unproductive.
因此，识别这些不同类型的愤怒存在一定的难度，但你绝对不应当过于轻易地愤怒，以至于对那些本该让你愤怒的事情无动于衷；同时也不该过于被动，以至于忽视了对自己真实感受到的愤怒的觉察与表达——当你对那些值得抱怨的事情保持沉默时，别人无法理解，也不会改变；如果你不对那些能够理解并回应你的、可以理性沟通的人或现象表达你的不满与愤怒，你实际上是在损害你自己和他们的利益，因为他们根本无从得知你需要什么，也就无法维持一种有益、健康的关系。
So there's a difficulty in recognizing those different kinds of angers, maybe to an extent, but you definitely don't want to be so willing to be angry that you find yourself angry about things are totally useful to be angry about, and so passive that you neglect the expression and, you know, actually recognizing an anger you feel and experience about things that warrant a frustration that if you express it, people will understand, people will change, and by not expressing your frustration and anger towards people or phenomena that can comprehend a reasonable, you know, back and forth between you and them, you're actually doing you and them a disservice because they don't have the information to maintain a useful, healthy relationship.
因此，他们只会默认一切都没问题，一切都很正常，因为你从未表达过不同意见。
And so they're just going to assume everything is kosher, everything's fine as is, because you haven't expressed otherwise.
于是你只是在不断延续这种状态。
So you just sort of propagate.
在这些情况下保持被动，你实际上就是在继续助长问题。
You continue the the problem by being passive in those sorts of situations.
所以，正如我所说，愤怒有多种不同的理解方式和类型，但重要的是努力去区分这两种。
And so there like I said, I mean, there's there's different ways of considering anger and different kinds of anger, but it's important to to try to, you know, delineate those two.
另外，本集由RP Strength赞助。
In other news, this episode is brought to you by RP Strength.
在过去两年里，这款训练应用极大地提升了我的健身成果和健身体验。
This training app has made a huge impact on my gains and enjoyment in the gym over the last two years now.
它由迈克·以色列医生设计，包含超过45个预设训练计划和250个动作教学视频，通过为你提供每场训练的详细步骤计划，彻底消除了制定理想举重方案的不确定性。
It's designed by doctor Mike Israel and comes with over 45 premade training programs, 250 technique videos, takes all of the guesswork out of crafting the ideal lifting routine by literally spoon feeding you a step by step plan for every workout.
它会指导你精确的组数、次数和重量，更重要的是，教你如何完善动作姿势，让每一次重复都达到最大增肌效果。
It guides you on the exact sets, reps, and weight to use, most importantly, how to perfect your form so every rep is optimized for maximum gains.
它会根据你的进步每周调整重量，并提供30天无条件退款保证。
It adjusts your weights each week based on your progress, and there's a thirty day money back guarantee.
所以你可以购买它，使用29天进行训练。
So you can buy it, train with it for 29 days.
如果你不喜欢，他们会全额退款。
And if you do not like it, they will give you your money back.
现在，通过访问描述中的链接或前往rpstrength.com/modernwisdom并在结账时使用代码modern wisdom，你可以获得RP增肌应用最高50美元的折扣。
Right now, you can get up to $50 off the RP Hypertrophy App by going to the link in the description below or heading to rpstrength.com/modernwisdom using the code modern wisdom at checkout.
那就是 rpstrength.com/modernwisdom，结账时使用代码 modernwisdom。
That's rpstrength.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout.
什么是欲望陷阱？
What what's the desire trap?
你指的是哪方面的欲望？
In terms of what are you referring to?
想想你对欲望的态度，以及你对它的理解。
Well, think about a your relationship with desire and what you've learned about it.
这是一种陷阱吗？
Is it a trap?
因为欲望似乎在很多方面引发了痛苦，甚至想要逃离欲望本身也是一种欲望。
Because it seems like desire fuels suffering in many ways, and even the desire to escape desire is a desire.
是的。
Mhmm.
同样如此。
As well.
然后，进化某种程度上将不满深深植入了我们体内。
And then evolution sort of hardwired dissatisfaction into us.
是的。
Mhmm.
在很多方面，我们或许潜意识里更喜欢追求而非满足。
And we sort of may we may secretly prefer striving over satisfaction in many ways.
是的。
Mhmm.
那我们该怎么在这种状态下生存下去？
So how the fuck do we survive this?
因为我们能生存下来，正是因为这种机制推动了生存，依我看。
Well, we survive this because that fuels survival, in my view.
这是无法逃避的。
It's inescapable.
我的意思是，我知道有些人，比如坐在山顶上，整天什么都不做，能够过着苦修的生活，彻底平息所有欲望。
I mean, I know that there are people that, you know, maybe sit on mountainsides and and and, you know, do nothing all day long, and they're able to live an ascetic life and totally quell all desire.
但对于绝大多数人来说，尤其是那些正在观看或收听的人，这种情况不太可能发生，而且也不应该发生。
But for the vast majority of people, especially those who might be watching or listening to this, that's not gonna probably happen, and it probably shouldn't.
你不需要强迫自己对某种美学生活抱有浪漫化的幻想。
It doesn't you don't have to force some sort of romanticism around aesthetic life.
因此，你最终剩下的，就是回到我们刚才讨论的内容，即理解你决策背后的限制以及什么对你真正重要。
And so, what you're left with is kind of comes back to what we were talking about a moment ago when it comes to understanding the constraints around your decision making and what matters to you.
因为你永远无法消除欲望，也永远无法消除欲望所依赖的底层所带来的持续痛苦或不满，因为欲望不是你获得、达成后就结束了的东西。
Because you're never going to eliminate desire, and you're never going to eliminate the continual pain or dissatisfaction that comes from the very substrate that desire functions on, because desire is not something that you get, you achieve, and then you're done.
显然，事情并不是这样运作的。
Obviously, that's not how that works.
饥饿也是如此。
It's the same with hunger.
每一次呼吸都是对下一次呼吸的渴望，但这并不意味着你就此满足了。
It's the same with every breath is a desire for another breath, and that doesn't mean you're done.
你必须不断寻找下一次呼吸、下一顿饭、下一个一切。
You're going to have to find the next breath, the next meal, the next everything.
所以，你逃不出这个陷阱。
And so, you don't escape that trap.
这个陷阱是悖论性的，就像我们之前讨论的许多其他事情一样：这很不幸，因为它注定了你永远无法获得终极的满足；但正因如此，你反而会去追求大量原本若在第一次成就后就满足了就根本不会在意的事物——人、目标、成就、偏好、艺术。
That trap is paradoxical in the same sense as many of the other things we've discussed, where it's unfortunate because it makes you you're kind of destined to never feel an ultimate satisfaction, but by virtue of that, you end up pursuing a ton of things people, goals, achievements, preferences, art that you wouldn't otherwise ever care about if you were done after your first moment of achievement.
所以，这个陷阱同时也是敞开的大门。
And so the trap is also the open door.
我的意思是，两者皆是。
I mean, it's both ways.
你被困在一条无限延伸的、满是敞开大门的走廊里，但每扇门后，你都可以决定自己在乎什么，以及从房间内的事物中获得怎样的意义；可惜的是，你很快就会感到厌倦，然后继续前往下一间房间。
You're stuck in an infinite, you know, hallway of open doors, but in each door, you can decide what you care about and what meaning you might derive from what's inside that room, and then you get bored, unfortunately, and then you move on to the next room.
但如果你持续前行，似乎总有一条无尽的门廊在前方。
But there seems to be, if you keep moving, an unending hallway of doors.
所以，这并不一定非得是纯粹的悲剧。
So it's it's not it doesn't have to be purely tragic.
好的。
Okay.
那么，这是否意味着更快乐的人只是不太清醒，还是他们更能消化这种觉知？
So does that mean that happier people are simply less aware, or are they are they better at metabolizing awareness?
哦，你这样提出这个问题非常好。
Oh, that's a very good way of framing that question.
我不太敢坚定地回答这个问题，因为我真的不知道自己认识多少快乐的人，无法断言哪一种情况更成立。
I I reluctant to answer that with conviction because I I just don't know if I know enough happy people to say one way or the other.
我认为这两种情况都可能存在。
I think that it could go it could be both.
我不确定这是否是一个非黑即白的问题。
I don't I don't know if it's binary.
我不是说你把它当作二选一的问题，但我觉得，你可能通过较少反思、较少意识到荒谬与无意义，以及与欲望相关的那种痛苦，而获得快乐。
I'm not saying you're presenting it as a binary option, but I think that you can be happy by being maybe less reflective and less aware about absurdity and futility and all that and the sort of associated, you know, suffering with desire.
你也许可以通过这种方式快乐，或者，用‘快乐’这个词可能不太准确，但你也可以在明知一切最终都是荒谬和无意义的情况下，依然获得一种类似快乐的状态。
You could be happy that way, and you could be happy is maybe not the best word, but you could be a kind of happy by also knowing that everything you do is ultimately absurd and futile.
但你依然会经历令人着迷和有趣的时刻，会体验爱与惊奇，而对我而言，意识到这些事物的无意义，并不会否定它们的价值。
But but you're you're still experiencing moments that are enthralling and interesting, and you're experiencing moments of love and wonder, and those don't, you know, the awareness of the futility of those things, for me, doesn't negate them.
所以我看不出有什么理由，让不同种类的人——或者所有种类的人——不能找到某种正当性、某种惊奇、某种继续前行的理由，即使不是真正的幸福。
So I see no reason why both kinds of people, or all kinds of people couldn't find maybe not happiness, but a a justification, a a wonder, a reason to to keep moving.
我明白，如果一切都不确定且是人为构建的，那我们为何要相信任何我们的结论呢？
I get I guess if everything is uncertain and constructed, why trust any of our conclusions?
哦，我不会相信的。
Oh, I wouldn't.
你是说，为什么我们要相信任何结论？
You're saying why trust any conclusion?
我绝对不信任任何结论，至少在绝对意义上是这样。
I I I definitely would not trust any conclusion, at least in the absolute sense.
当你说到‘信任’时，你是说完全相信它的最终性吗？
When you say trust, do you mean believing wholly in its sort of finality?
是的。
Yeah.
我想是吧。
I suppose.
我们怎么能相信自己的任何洞察呢？
How can we trust any of our insights?
比如，我们自己的结论，一切都是不确定的。
Like, our our own conclusions everything's uncertain.
一切都是被构建的。
Everything's constructed.
我们的意识正在过滤我们所看到的世界。
Our consciousness is filtering what we see in the world.
根本不存在所谓的真相。
There's no such thing as real truth.
我们为何不是一直陷在自己的不确定性中呢？
How are we not just permanently sort of wallowing in our own uncertainty?
是的。
Yeah.
所以我认为在某种程度上，我有办法摆脱这种困境。
So I think I have a way out of that to some extent.
并非一切都不确定，因为你此刻所体验的一切都是真实且确定的。
Everything isn't uncertain, because what you're experiencing now is completely real and certain.
因此，你始终拥有这样一个基础——与体验、自我和存在相连的锚点，也许这些无法被推演到某种形而上学或对更宏大图景的洞察上。
And so you have that basis always, that tether to experience and selfhood and existence that, you know, maybe can't be extrapolated out onto some sort of metaphysics and, you know, insight about some grander picture.
但你可以确信，你此刻正在感受和体验着什么，并且你可以基于这些感受，尽你所能去生活和应对存在。
But you can know that you're certainly feeling what you're feeling and experiencing right now, and you can navigate a life and existence based on those feelings to the best of your ability.
这并不能提供绝对的确定性，我认为我们通常对确定性的理解方式是错的，但它确实提供了一个指南针、一个量表，我们可以以此为参照，找到自己真正追求的东西。
And that doesn't provide certainty, and I think the way that we often like to think of it, but it does provide a barometer, a compass that we can reference and derive what we're really after from.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你认为是什么让生命值得去努力？
What do you think makes life worth the trouble?
我肯定会说，‘探索惊奇’是我YouTube频道的名字。
I would I would certainly Pursuit of Wonder is the name of of my YouTube channel.
我提到这一点，是因为‘追求幸福’是常见的说法，但我认为，用这种方式来正当化人生追求和生活本身是错误的。
The reason why I'm bringing that up is because Pursuit of Happiness is is the common phrasing, and I believe that that's the wrong way of approaching the justification around pursuits and life in general.
所以我认为让生活值得去努力的，尽管这一点优势微乎其微，但正是那种惊奇的体验、自我创造的意义——你可以通过艺术、人际关系、友谊，还有审美体验，比如漫步在大自然中，来感受到这种惊奇。
And so I think what makes life worth the trouble is, and it's by a very slim margin, I must say, but the experience of wonder, the experience of a self produced meaning, and you can experience wonder through art, through relationships, through friendships, through, you know, aesthetic experiences, just walk through nature.
如果你拥有足够多这样的时刻——当然，'足够'是相对的——但只要你拥有足够多这样的时刻，你就能把存在的艰辛作为原料，把那种泥泞般的灰暗物质，转化为美丽而有价值的东西。
And and if you have enough of those moments, and enough is relative, but if you have enough of those moments, you can draw you can take the ingredients of the trouble of existence, you can take the graphite of of that sort of sludge, and you can make it into something beautiful and worthwhile.
就像我说的，对每个人而言，这种体验究竟在多大程度上让你觉得所有的艰辛都值得，这个比例是因人而异的。
And it's it's like I said, it's by a certain margin for everybody how much that actually feels like you made it worthwhile in terms of all the trouble.
但我觉得，你就像在打一场注定会输的拳击赛，可你依然打得精彩绝伦，这其中蕴含着一种难以言喻的精神力量。
But I think that's you're kind of in a boxing match that you're destined to lose, but you're still putting up a hell of a good fight, and there's, you know, there's so much spirit in that.
你知道，每个人都喜欢看逆袭的故事，而我相信，我们每个人都是自己生活与存在面前的弱者。
There's, you know, everybody loves an underdog story, and I believe each of us are are the underdogs up against our lives and existence.
但我们拼尽全力去抗争，正是这份抗争，让一切变得值得。
But we we put up a hell of a fight, and that's that makes it worth it.
你认为自我意识会让爱变得更深刻，还是更脆弱？
Do you think self awareness makes love deeper or more fragile?
如果非得选一个的话，我觉得可能是更脆弱。
Probably more fragile, if I had to pick.
我这么说的原因是，它可能让你更加自我意识。
The reason I would say that is because it makes you maybe more self conscious.
显然，自我意识和自我觉察几乎是同义词，但‘自我意识’在更常见的语境中，指的是你担心自己给别人留下的印象，以及自己如何融入他人的偏好和需求。
Obviously, self conscious and self awareness are almost synonyms, but self conscious in the more typical sense of the word, where you're worried about how you're coming off, and how you're integrating with somebody else's preferences and desires.
然而，另一方面，更加自我觉察意味着认识到——我认为这在生活的各个领域都很有用——你有多烦人，有多神经质。
However, on the flip side of that, to be more self aware is to recognize this is one thing that I think is useful in all areas of life, is to recognize, you know, how annoying you can be, and how neurotic you can be.
因此，当你更细致地意识到自己的神经质、烦人之处，以及那些让你在日常生活中从内心来看难以相处的种种特质时，对这些特质的觉察会让你更能理解他人与你相处时所面临的困难。
And so when you recognize a more granular sense of your neuroses, or your annoyances, or your all the sorts of things that make you, on a day to day basis, from inside your skull, a little bit challenging to deal with, To be more aware of those qualities makes you more understanding of another person's difficulties with dealing with those qualities.
如果你没有意识到这些特质，你就永远无法明白：为什么这个人会以这种方式回应我？
And if you're not aware of those qualities, then you might never understand why is this person reacting to me in such a way?
为什么他们会对我的行为产生这样的感受？
Why are they feeling this sort of way in relation to my behavior?
你知道自己有一种外在的行为模式，但如果不认识到这些特质的完整图景——它们如何显现，以及为何如此——就很难对那些竭尽全力靠近你的人产生共情，毕竟，他们已经尽可能地贴近你了。
You know that you have a certain outward behavior, but without recognizing the proper picture, the full picture of those qualities and how they become manifest, and why they are the way they are, it can be challenging to empathize with somebody who is trying to be as close to you as possible, and they obviously, you are as close to you as possible, humanly possible.
如果他们试图接近你，而你却未能认识到这些特质，你就很容易缺乏对他们视角和体验的同理心。
And if they're trying to get anywhere near that, without recognizing those qualities, you do tend to lack the empathy for their perspective and experience.
所以我认为，最终这可能更有益，但也非常具有挑战性，因为你总是想追求理想的情况，至少对我来说是这样。
So I think ultimately this may be more of a benefit, but it can be also very challenging because you want to you always want I mean, when you're always seeking ideal circumstances, at least for me.
因此，当你意识到所有这些负面特质时，我总想将它们完全且恰当地融入自己，并以一种对我身边亲近的人有意义的方式做到。
And so when you're aware of all those negative qualities, I'm always seeking to integrate them fully and properly into myself, and in a way that makes sense for other people that I'm close with.
而这是一个不可能实现的目标。
And that's a impossible goal.
因此，这也可能让你因为在这方面缺乏成功而变得过于激进、过于愤怒。
And so that also can make you, you know, maybe over overzealous, over angered by by the lack of success in certain areas like that.
是的。
Yeah.
罗伯特·潘塔诺，各位女士先生。
Robert Pantano, ladies and gentlemen.
老兄，你太棒了。
Dude, you rule.
我喜欢你的YouTube频道。
I love your YouTube channel.
这本书太棒了。
The book's fantastic.
人们为什么要关注你做的所有事情？
Why should people go to check out everything you do?
谢谢你，克里斯。
Appreciate it, Chris.
是的。
Yeah.
我有一本新书，叫《自我意识的可怕悖论》。
So I have a new book, Terrible Paradox of Self Awareness.
这本书将于3月10日出版。
That's coming out March 10.
所以，根据你们观看的时间，现在就可以预购了。
So depending on when you're watching this, it's available for preorder now.
3月10日之后，当然就可以正常购买了。
After March 10, it's obviously available for regular order.
我的YouTube频道是Pursuit of Wonder。
And then YouTube channel is Pursuit of Wonder.
我会在那里每个月发布几次视频。
Try to come out with videos a couple times a month over there.
Pursuit of Wonder也出现在所有其他社交媒体平台，以及pursuitofwonder.com。
And then Pursuit of Wonder everywhere else on all socials and pursuitofwonder.com.
太棒了。
Fuck yeah.
兄弟，我真的非常感谢你。
Dude, I appreciate you, man.
恭喜你。
Congratulations.
非常感谢你，Chris。
Thanks so much, Chris.
我真的很感谢你。
I really appreciate you.
我经常被问到有什么书推荐。
I get asked all the time for book suggestions.
人们想开始阅读小说、非虚构作品或真实故事，所以我整理了一份包含100本我读过最有趣、最有影响力书籍的清单。
People want to get into reading fiction or nonfiction or real life stories, and that's why I made a list of 100 of the most interesting and impactful books that I've ever read.
这些是我发现过的最改变人生的读物，每本书都有我为什么喜欢它们的说明，以及购买链接，而且完全免费。
These are the most life changing reads that I've ever found, and there's descriptions about why I like them and links to go and buy them, and it's completely free.
你现在就可以访问 chriswillx.com/books 获取这份清单。
And you can get it right now by going to chriswillx.com/books.
就是 chriswillx.com/books。
That's chriswillx.com/books.
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