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二十一世纪最重要的技能，是能够愉快地与不确定性共处。
The most important skill in the twenty first century is the ability to live happily with uncertainty.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，你知道现在到底发生了什么吗？
I mean, do you know what's going on?
几乎什么都不知道。
Almost nothing.
我的意思是，成百上千万人专门听你讲，就是想搞清楚现状，可你还是说不清到底发生了什么。
I mean, millions of people like tune in to listen to you to try to figure out what's going on, and you still don't know what's going on.
所以，如果你我都搞不明白，我觉得大家其实都挺困惑的——随着信息获取变得越来越容易，人们对这些信息的确信感和信心反而越来越弱了。
So it's If you and I can't figure it out, like I think we're all pretty It is interesting that like as access to information scales, the certainty and the confidence around that information like dissipates.
我感觉，尽管我们24小时都能接触到所有信息，但每个人对现实的把握感却比以往任何时候都更弱了，这真是个很奇怪的悖论。
I feel like everybody is feels less moored to reality than ever before, despite the fact that we have access to everything twenty four seven, which is like a very weird paradox.
但我认为，人类内心深处有一种强烈的本能，就是渴望确定性，想找一套坚定的信念和假设，作为立足点，来构建自己的生活。
But I think it's there's a deep human instinct to seek out certainty, to find a certain set of beliefs and assumptions that you can kinda like hang your hat on and build your life around.
我觉得，这比以往任何时候都更难了，因此，培养适应模糊性的认知弹性，可能比以往任何时候都更重要。
And I think it's becoming harder than it's ever been before, and I think as a result, developing kind of the cognitive flexibility to live in ambiguity is probably more important than it's ever been.
如果你无法应对不确定性，会怎么样？
What happens if you can't deal with uncertainty?
那你就会过度依赖某一个信念。
Then you will over index on one single belief.
对吧？
Right?
你会对某个观点变得极端。
So you'll become radical about one idea.
你会把所有的情感寄托都押在一个概念或一种世界观上。
You'll you'll basically put all of your kind of emotional well-being into a single concept or a single world world view.
这样做的危险在于，任何世界观迟早都会被现实击碎。
And the danger of that is just that like any Every world view is gonna get blown up at a certain point.
毕竟，没有任何东西能经得起现实的检验。
Like nothing survives contact with reality.
所以，当你的世界观被现实打脸时，你要么会遭受巨大的痛苦，要么只能加倍沉迷于幻觉，以此来维持那种虚假的确定感。
So when you are forced, you know, when when that worldview gets contradicted, you're either gonna suffer immensely, or you're gonna have to double down the delusion to maintain the certainty.
焦虑的核心其实就是不确定性。
Anxiety is all about uncertainty.
人们总想拼命把不确定性压缩掉。
It's about trying to compress uncertainty down.
确实如此。
Mhmm.
我不知道未来会发生什么。
I don't know what's going to happen in future.
如果我能够想象出未来可能出现的各种情况，尤其是那些非常糟糕的结局。
If I can imagine all of the different ways that the future might unfold, especially the really bad ones.
确实如此。
Mhmm.
我就能提前做好准备，并进行推演模拟。
I'll be able to plan and war game.
所以一旦真发生了，我就有准备了。
And that means that when it happens, I'll be ready.
对。
Mhmm.
说来也怪，人类的大脑居然宁愿想象一场灾难，也不愿面对不确定性。
You know, there's a, it's a really strange comment on how humans' brains work that we would rather imagine a catastrophe than deal with uncertainty.
没错。
Yes.
你可以把它看作是一种同时考虑多种可能性的思考方式。
You think about you think about it as thinking in superpositions.
对吧？
Right?
人们更愿意把这种多重可能性强行压缩成一个哪怕违背物理法则的结局。
People would rather collapse the superposition down into something that maybe even breaks the laws of physics.
比如，你已故的奶奶突然从坟墓里回来，骂你一顿，就因为你做了这么件事——整个超自然现象就这么上演了。
Like, your dead grandma comes back from the grave to tell you off for this thing that you you know, this entire supernatural shit's going on.
对。
Mhmm.
你宁愿脑子里想着那种情况，而不是不确定会发生什么。
That's what you would rather have in your mind Yep.
我不知道接下来会发生什么。
Than I don't know what's gonna happen.
没错。
Right.
有意思的是，你刚才说的焦虑，就像上了个不停转的跑步机，总想预测未来会发生什么。
It's interesting too, like, what you described about anxiety, that kind of that treadmill that you get on, right, of, like, trying to predict future outcomes.
可你越是想预测未来、越想确定结果，反而越会制造出更多不确定的可能。
In the process of trying to predict those outcomes, trying to be become certain about what's gonna happen, you actually just inadvertently build more surface area for more uncertainty.
因为你每往前推演一步，就多出一分出错的机会。
Because every everything you try to project into the future, you just create more opportunities for that to be wrong.
是的。
Yes.
这挺有意思的，我觉得解决这个问题的关键其实不在内容，而在于视角的宽窄，对吧？
So it's interesting because I think actually like the antidote to this, it's more of like an aperture issue, right?
与其拼命去确定那些具体又狭窄的细节，不如把眼光放远一点，找到一个让你安心的宏观视角，你觉得呢？
I think instead of trying to be certain about very specific, small narrow things, it's better to try to zoom out till you find a place of confidence, right?
就拿人工智能来说吧，
So, just take like AI for instance, right?
人人都在焦虑，有些人甚至觉得世界末日要来了。
Everybody's freaking out about it, everybody's got, you know, some people think the world's gonna end.
有些人觉得所有人都会丢掉工作。
Some people think that everybody's gonna lose their jobs.
还有人觉得中国会掌控一切。
Some people think like China's gonna take over everything.
这些说法到底对不对，我完全不知道。
I have no idea if any of those things are true.
但如果把视野拉得足够宽，看看人类历史上每一次重大技术变革，都会带来阵痛和替代，但社会最终都会适应并继续向前。
But like if I zoom out broadly enough and you just look at every major technological revolution throughout human history, there is disruption, there is some displacement, but like society adapts and moves on.
所以如果我把视角放得这么宽，我就会对宏观层面的未来有点信心，觉得我们最终会没事的。
And so if I zoom out to that wide of an aperture, suddenly I feel some degree of certainty that we're gonna be okay in the macro.
但在微观层面呢，比如你和我，两年后还能不能保住工作？
But in the micro, right, of like, are you and I gonna have jobs in two years?
这方面我就没那么有把握了。
Like, Some less certainty about
确实。
that.
对。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
需要这么多确定性，其实是一种脆弱，因为你等于在说，我无法应对那些无法预见的事情。
It's it's a kind of fragility to need a lot of certainty because what you're saying is I can't deal with something that I can't anticipate.
我的系统还不够坚韧。
I don't have enough robustness in my system.
如果发生了我没预料到的事，我想要活下去，就只能靠提前做好准备。
If something happens that I haven't planned for, the only way that I can survive the future is if I've already prepared for it.
对。
Yeah.
而这恰恰跟坚韧，或者说最好的反脆弱性，是相反的。
And that's the opposite of robustness or, you know, the best antifragility.
看看新冠疫情吧。
Look at COVID.
疫情期间，每个人的生活基本上都被分成了两种走向。
Now COVID, everybody's lives during COVID basically forked into one of two directions.
是的。
Mhmm.
人们要么彻底失控，要么生活变得特别好。
People either went way off the rails or people's lives got stupendously better.
没错。
Right.
但就是这样。
But that's it.
根本没人会说，哎，新冠其实也没啥大不了的。
There wasn't really anyone that was like, yeah, you know, COVID was okay.
挺好的。
It's fine.
是的。
Yeah.
生活照常过，没什么实质性变化。
It ticked over and stuff really didn't change.
我的人生轨迹根本没变。
You know, my my trajectory stayed the same.
那就像一场全民参与的生活方式罗夏墨迹测验。
That that was like a lifestyle Rorschach test that everybody took.
对。
Mhmm.
每个人都从中看到了不同的东西，有人往这边走，有人往那边走。
Everybody looked at it, and some people went in one direction and some people went in the other.
对。
Mhmm.
很多时候，你就是手气太差了，兄弟。
And a lot of it is you just got dealt a fucking shitty hand, dude.
是的。
Yeah.
你懂的。
You know?
比如那份你本来马上就要接手、本该改变你人生的餐饮工作。
Like that that hospitality job that you were just about to take that was gonna change your life.
我真的很难过。
I'm really sorry.
就是那个你差点要做的SaaS公司，也黄了？
That fucking that blew or that SaaS company that you were about to start?
对啊。
Like, yep.
你真是把市场时机拿捏得死死的。
I mean, you timed the shit out of the market.
2019年就把公司注册了，真不错。
Well done for incorporating in 2019 and Right.
所有东西都准备好了，随时能远程办公。
Having everything ready to work from home remotely.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
挺有意思的。
It's interesting.
最近有个粉丝问我一个问题，关于自信，特别是那些在各种场合都显得特别笃定的人。
Like So one of my fans recently asked me a question about confidence, and about, like, people who seem self assured in kind of every situation.
挺有意思的是，你听多了关于自信的建议，总会听到说，你得失败很多次，得积累足够的证据，证明自己能应对挫折和障碍。
And it's interesting because I think, you know, when you hear a lot of confidence advice, you hear, you know, you need to fail at something in a certain amount of times, and you need to build evidence, right, that you're capable of handling setbacks and obstacles and all these things.
但我觉得，自信其实是在两个不同层面上运作的。
And it's interesting because I think it it kinda like, confidence actually operates on two different dimensions.
一种是状态性的自信，另一种是特质性的自信。
There's, like, state confidence and trait confidence.
对吧？
Right?
你可以让自己置身于一些能让你感到某种程度确定性的场景里。
And so you can put yourself in situations where you feel some degree of certainty.
比如，你都录过上千期播客了。
Like, you you've done a thousand podcasts.
对吧？
Right?
所以就算这儿突然有个灯泡炸了，你大概率也能搞定，完全没问题。
So it's like, if a fucking light blows up right here, like you're probably gonna figure it out and be fine.
没错。
Yep.
你也不会为此担心。
And you're not gonna worry about it.
不过，还有一种更广泛的特质型自信，挺有意思的。就是当你活得足够久，经历过足够多的不确定性，身处足够多失控的境地，但最后事情都顺利解决了，这种自信我觉得是没法提前计划或预测的。
But there is an interesting aspect of like kind of a broader trait confidence, of just living enough of your life in that uncertainty, being in enough situations where you felt out of control, but things turned out fine, that I I don't think you can plan or predict for.
这几乎可以说是定义上的必然：你得亲身经历事情不按计划发展，才能建立起那种更深层次的、特质型的自信。
It's like almost by definition, you have to live through things not going as planned to build that like deeper level, trait level confidence.
对。
Yeah.
这就是灵魂的暗夜了。
That's the dark night of the soul thing.
对你来说最糟的事，就是你经历过最糟的事。
The worst thing that's ever happened to you is the worst thing that's ever happened to you.
这就像一种困难暴露疗法。
It's like difficulty exposure therapy.
我以前也经历过，但没死。
Oh, I've been here before, and I didn't die.
那说明我还能再撑一次。
That means I can probably be there again.
是的。
Yeah.
事情总会好起来的。
Things will go okay.
但如果你从没经历过，再遇上像疫情这样的事，除了五岁小孩，谁都措手不及。
But if you haven't been there before, and it happens if a pandemic comes along again, everybody, apart from five year olds, are prepared.
是的。
Yeah.
多得多。
Way more.
好吧。
Okay.
我知道接下来会发生什么。
I understand what's gonna happen here.
比如，我会把自己关在家里。
Like, I I lock myself in the house.
我可能会投资一些拥有这种分布式采购模式的公司，你知道的，
I'll probably invest in some companies that have these, you know, like distributed Buy
Zoom的股票。
Zoom stock.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
买Zoom的股票。
Buy Zoom stock.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道吗，新冠爆发的时候，还有一家公司也叫Zoom，对。
You know that when when COVID happened, there was another company called Zoom Mhmm.
它的股票代码和真正的Zoom非常接近，股价一下子涨了四倍多。
Whose ticker is very close to the proper one, and their share price went up by, like, 400%.
那是家中国公司，纯粹是因为名字碰巧一样才走运的。
It's some Chinese company, like, just by fortune of being called the same thing.
行了。
Alright.
下一个。
Next one.
对
Yep.
做那些难事，不是因为有趣，而是因为赢了才有真正的意义。
Do hard shit, not because it's fun, but because the win actually means something.
你为它流过血。
You bled for it.
你为它拼过命。
You broke for it.
你为它挣来的。
You earned it.
轻松的胜利转眼就忘。
Easy wins are forgettable.
艰难的胜利才会改变你。
Hard ones change you.
这才是关键。
That's the point.
最近我一直在想一个概念，就是便利性和重要性之间其实是反比关系。
I've been thinking a lot about this concept recently of like how there's an inverse relationship between convenience and significance.
我觉得，我们往往只有在付出一定代价之后，才会真正珍惜那些东西。
Like, I think we tend to only appreciate things that require some degree of friction or sacrifice.
当然，做难事的经典理由我们刚说过，就是能锻炼韧性、耐力，还有自我信念和自信这些。
Mean, look, there's the classic reason to do hard things, which is kind of what we just It's like you build resilience, and you build up your endurance, and self belief, and confidence, and all these things.
但我最近更多是从存在意义的角度去想：当一切都被轻易送上门时，人就会视作理所当然。
But I've been thinking a lot about this more from kind of a existential meaning lens of that when things are just handed to you, you take them for granted.
这本来就是人性。
It's human nature.
所以，如果你生活中有太多成果，都是靠技术随手给的——比如想吃卷饼，随时有车给你送上门——从某种角度说，这其实剥夺了我们获得真正意义的机会。
And so if there are a lot of results in your life, if we are all kind of accumulating more and more results and outputs in our life that are kind of just handed to us by technology, know, fucking burrito taxis coming anytime we want, like In one way, it's kind of robbing us for opportunities of significance.
也许是因为我今年四十了，开始有意识地在某些方面，给自己重新加点阻力。
Maybe it's because I'm 40 now, but starting to develop this interest in intentionally introducing friction back into my life in certain ways.
昨晚我和我妻子聊了聊，她说有个儿时好友发了段语音给她，她正翻着那些旧东西。
I actually had a conversation with my wife last night, where she was telling me, she said that one of her childhood friends sent her some voice notes, and it's like she was going through all this shit.
她孩子出了问题，生意伙伴完全撂挑子不干了，还跟前夫大吵了一架，一堆糟心事。
Like her kid was having problems, her business partner was like, you know, just completely checked out, huge fight with like her ex husband, all this stuff.
我老婆就问她：你要不要聊聊？
And my wife was like, do you wanna talk?
她朋友说：我压根没想过要找你，怕打扰你，觉得你忙嘛，之类的。
And her friend was like, I never even considered, like, I didn't wanna bother you, or you know, you're busy or whatever.
结果她们一打电话，聊了一个半小时，那一刻真的重新连上了心。
And then of course they got on the phone, they talked for like an hour and a half, and it was like this great kind of reconnection in this moment.
但昨晚我跟我老婆聊到，现在连打个电话都这么犹豫，非得先发条消息问：我能打给你吗？
But my wife and I were talking last night about like how just that reluctance to even like actually call somebody without permission, without establishing, okay, I sent a text, and then I asked if I can call.
我们都觉得电话响太烦人了，接电话麻烦，得花时间应付，结果反而把维系感情的那点真实互动给丢掉了。
We're also hung up on the phone is annoying, it's annoying when the phone rings, it's annoying to have to deal with calls, that we've robbed ourselves of that friction that actually builds the connective tissue of our relationships.
对吧？
Right?
因为语音留言、短信，再怎么发也复刻不了那种亲密感。
Because you can't reproduce that intimacy through voice notes or text messages or anything.
这只是一个很表面的例子，但这类表面化的互动我们每天24小时都随处可见。
So that's a very superficial example, but we're surrounded by those superficial examples twenty four seven.
我说得清楚吗？
Is this making any sense?
太清楚了。
Absolutely.
我一开始还真猜不到你要讲什么，但你最后完全回到了兰瑟这个主题上。
I didn't know where you were going at the start, you really brought it back into Lanther.
友谊的麻烦之处，恰恰就是它成长的根源。
The the inconvenience of a friendship is exactly where it grows from.
没错。
Yes.
关于安全感，我听过最好的定义就是：我们能一起经历艰难时刻，然后安然无恙地走出来。
It's the definition of safety, the best definition of safety that's been formally given to me is we can go through something hard and come out the other side okay.
对。
Mhmm.
个人安全和自主权最好的定义就是：不管发生什么，我都没事——这其实很相似。
The best definition of personal safety and sovereignty is I'm okay no matter what happens, which is something similar.
这是一种你和自己的关系，或者你和别人的关系。
It's a relationship with yourself or relationship with somebody else.
是的。
Yeah.
但如果你从来没和谁一起经历过困难，你怎么知道自己是安全的呢？
But you have to how do you know that you're safe if you haven't gone through something difficult with somebody?
对。
Mhmm.
这跟乔丹·彼得森说的观点一样：如果你根本没法伤害别人，那你不叫高尚。
It's the same thing as Jordan Peterson's idea about you're not being noble if you're unable to be harmful.
你只是没能力伤害人罢了。
You're just being harmless.
没错。
Right.
兔子其实根本不会选择，兔子也可能很恶劣，但它根本不是故意要无害的。
A rabbit doesn't choose actually, rabbits can be bastards, but a rabbit doesn't choose to be harmless.
没错。
Right.
它只是没什么攻击性的武器罢了。
It just doesn't have very many weapons.
当然。
Sure.
但重要性和便利性之间的那条线，我觉得简直太对了。
But that line between significance and convenience, I think, is so fucking right.
我最近一直在想这个问题。
And I've been thinking about this a lot.
我猜你写的东西也很多。
I'm sure that you write a lot of things.
你得不断产出东西。
You need to produce stuff.
每个人或多或少都在用人工智能来辅助自己的工作流程。
Everybody in one way or another is probably using AI to assist them with their workflow.
我注意到，它虽然让完成这些事变得更简单、甚至更好，却也让我失去了其中的一些乐趣。
And what I've noticed is that there's certain things that it's robbed me of the enjoyment of in completion Mhmm.
即使它让完成过程变得更轻松、更高效。
Even as it's made completing it easier and maybe better.
对。
Right.
然后你会开始问自己一个深刻的问题：我到底为什么要这么做？
And then you start to ask yourself a deep question, which is, what am I doing it for?
对。
Right.
我是为了结果才做的吗？
Am I doing it for the outcome?
因为现在我可以快速把结果搞定。
Because I can speed run the outcome.
对。
Right.
嗯，算是吧，但也不完全是。
Well, kind of, but also kind of not.
我做这件事，其实是为了完成之后那种感觉。
What I'm doing is I'm doing this thing for the way that I feel when I have finished it.
没错。
Mhmm.
这才是我真正想追求的。
That's really what I'm doing it for.
假设你可以给ChatGPT写个提示词，感谢我们的合作伙伴ChatGPT，让它帮你生成频道视频。
Because let's say that you could create some prompt in ChatGPT, thank you to our partner ChatGPT, and that would create videos on your channel.
就算这些视频是基于你自己的风格创作的，没用别人的内容，也能让你的新频道在四周内涨到一百万粉丝。
Let's say they're even derivative of your work, that it's not using anybody else's work, but it was able to get a new channel of yours to a million subscribers in four weeks.
是的。
Yeah.
你只要输入一下，然后就会说，哇，太棒了。
And you just put it in, and you're like, oh, amazing.
这还是我的作品。
It's my work.
对吧？
Right?
所以本质上还是你，只是达成的过程没那么费劲。
So it's still you, but the process of getting there wasn't that challenging.
没错。
Right.
我觉得你不会觉得有那么大的满足感。
I don't think that you would feel that satisfied.
想想看，以前你亲手写完一本书的时候，那种成就感有多强。
Think about how satisfied you were when your book actually gets completed by you, by hand, in the before times.
是啊，我也在纠结这个问题，因为我本身是个特别支持科技的人。
Yeah, and it's like I struggle with this too because I'm generally like a very technology, pro technology person.
谁拥有一个人工智能公司。
Who owns an AI company.
对。
Yeah.
不过我想到的是，你刚才说的时候，我脑子里冒出个比喻：这就像是在玩电子游戏时开了外挂。
So it's But I think of it like when you were talking, the thing that came to mind is, it's kind of like playing a video game with cheat codes.
对吧？
Right?
刚开始挺爽的，觉得自己所向披靡，简直太棒了。
It's fun for a minute, you're like, oh, I'm like crushing everything, this is awesome.
但等你通关之后，却一点成就感都没有。
But then when you beat it, it's not satisfying.
可以说，过去二十年里大部分科技革新，本质上都是给生活的方方面面悄悄加了外挂。
And it's almost like most of the technological innovation of, say, the last twenty years has just been adding little cheat codes to all these areas of our lives.
这让一切都变得更顺畅、更省力、更方便、更快、更高效，但同时也剥夺了我们亲手完成一件事时那种真实的满足感。
And it has made everything more seamless, frictionless, convenient, faster, more efficient, but it's like robbing the satisfaction of like doing
这正是你这么做的原因。
Which is the reason that you do it.
你做这件事，是为了那种做完之后的感觉，没错。
You do it for the emotional state Yes.
完成之后的那份满足感。
Of having done it.
对。
Yeah.
当然，如果你做得好，让别人的生活变得更轻松，受欢迎，甚至还能赚点钱，这些都算额外收获，但归根结底，只有当你能把自己的付出和结果联系起来时，它们才有意义。
Now hopefully having done it well, hopefully having done it in a way that makes other people's lives better and is popular and maybe gets you some money too, but all of those things only matter in as much as you can link your effort to that outcome.
是的。
Yes.
而且我觉得，问题还在于，我们开始把便捷和高效当成做事的初衷了。
And I think part of it too is that it's causing us to mistake the convenience and efficiency for why we're doing it.
对吧？
Right?
我觉得，比如约会就是这方面最典型的例子。
I think, for example, think this dating is probably the most egregious example of this.
看看现在的约会软件，完全是为了方便相识而设计的。
If you look at just the state of the dating apps, they're completely optimized for convenience of introduction.
表面上看，如果你是单身，这似乎是个不错的选择。
And on the surface, if you're a single person, that sounds like a great deal.
但通过这种大规模的便捷匹配，你反而失去了那种摩擦和挣扎，而这些恰恰是筛选真正适合你的伴侣的关键机制。
But in the process of mass matching people out of convenience, you are losing that friction and that the struggle, which is essentially the filtration system for who's actually gonna be a good partner for you.
这也让彼此之间的联结变得更有意义。
Which also creates the significance in the connection too.
这才是问题的核心。
That's that bottom line.
胜利总是容易被遗忘。
Wins are forgettable.
对。
Yes.
这正是关键所在。
And that's the thing.
你回望自己的一生，会惊讶地发现，自己都不记得是怎么走到今天的。
You look back on your life and you say, wow, I I don't actually know how I got here.
当然，一切都很好，看看我如今拥有的这一切。
I mean, it's great, and I look at all of the things I have.
这难道不令人感慨吗？
Isn't that wonderful?
我常想到那些靠加密货币一夜暴富、甚至成为千万富翁的人。
I I think about this people that got became millionaires, deca sent to millionaires through crypto.
对啊。
Mhmm.
那种经历得多让人迷失啊？
How deranging must that be?
对啊。
Mhmm.
完全颠覆认知。
Completely deranging.
就像一个穷人中了彩票，从很多方面来说，那可能是他人生中最糟糕的一天之一，确实如此。
In the same way as somebody who's poor winning the lottery, in many ways, that could be one of the worst days of their life Yes.
当他们回过头去看的时候。
When they look back.
他们会说，天啊。
They go, wow.
那完全脱离了我原本对现实的理解。
That was completely unmoored, untethered to my existing perspective of reality.
我这辈子再也不会有比这更好的一天了。
I'm never gonna have a day that's that good again.
就像你从来没碰过可卡因，某天却突然一口气吞下查理·辛那种量的剂量。
It's like it's like having never done cocaine and then deciding one day to complete, like, a Charlie Sheen sized dose of it.
然后你意识到，我根本没准备好承受这种事。
And you go, well, I'm not conditioned.
我当时状态不对。
I wasn't right.
我没有慢慢适应这种状态，也没有建立起属于自己的故事和解释框架，而这些才是我们真正活在其中的东西。
I didn't build up my tolerance for this, and I don't have the story and the narrative, and that's what we live in.
人类是靠这些故事来生活的。
Humans live in these narratives.
对，没错。
Yeah, yeah.
这其实还涉及一种能力，对吧？
There's also, there's a skill aspect of this too, right?
尤其是在金钱和人际关系方面。
Especially with around money and relationships.
我觉得，现在这种靠应用软件约会的文化，问题就在于很多人根本没机会通过面对面接触大量的人——尤其是那些对你没兴趣的人——来锻炼和提升最基本的约会技巧。
Like I think part of the issue with kind of the app driven dating culture is that there's a lot of just simple basic dating skills that you build and optimize through, like actually speaking face to face with lots and lots of people, especially people who are not very interested in you.
我猜你在这件事上经历了不少。
And I imagine you have a lot of experience with that.
是的。
Oh, yeah.
对。
Oh, yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
确实。
Yeah.
有趣的是，有个数据说中彩票的人，大多数最后都破产了，很多人变得抑郁，还有不少人选择了自杀。
And the interesting thing, you know, there's this stat around lottery winners, like the majority of them end up broke, lots of them end up depressed, number of them commit suicide.
我觉得这背后也跟管理金钱的能力有关，对吧？
And I think a lot of it too is that there's a skill set around money, right?
比如你突然有了很多钱，但处理钱的方式有很多坑，容易做出错误决定，养成坏习惯，而这些你从来都没机会慢慢培养，因为你没经历过一步步积累财富的过程。
Which is like, okay, you have a lot of money, there's a lot of bad ways to manage that money, there are a lot of bad decisions, there's a lot of bad habits around money that you've never developed because you never climbed the mountain steadily over a long period of time.
对。
Mhmm.
你就像被空投到了山顶上。
You were just like air dropped to the peak.
没错。
Yep.
所以很显然，你一下子就跌下来了。
And so clearly, you just fall off.
有意思的是，我们现在拥有的某些科技，如果当初没有，我们反而可能更喜欢过去的生活。
Well, the stupid thing is we don't know what technology we have now that had it have not been there, we would have preferred our lives in the past.
据说打字机是在尼采中年时出现的，他的写作风格因此发生了变化，挺有意思的。
There was a I think the typewriter came in partway through Nietzsche's life, and his writing changed Interesting.
当打字机出现的时候。
When he the typewriter came along.
之前他都是手写的。
Previously, he was writing by hand.
是的。
Yeah.
之后，他的句子变短了。
Then after that, his sentences got shorter.
他的写作风格变了。
His writing style changed.
我想知道，当年打字机刚出现的时候，有多少人会说：没了羽毛笔，很多事情都会不一样了。
And I wonder how many people, when the typewriter came along, said, well, without the quill, it's going to change all of these things.
这并不是说，有些技术不能激发创造力，或者帮你突破困难。
Now that's not to say that some technologies can't unlock creativity and unlock your access to difficulty.
有些挑战其实是多余的，但在我看来，如果创造力有个最佳区间，那我们现在显然已经远远超出了那个范围——现在一个提示词就能生成一篇还过得去的文章。
There's, like, there's unnecessary challenge, but it certainly feels to me like if there's a bell curve of where the optimal point is or the area under the curve, we are way overshooting it now that a single prompt can basically spit out a passable piece of work.
话虽如此，是的。
All that being said Mhmm.
我觉得人工智能的出现，让每个人都有了更多机会。
I do think that the advent of AI opens up for everybody.
人工智能本质上是把你拉回到平均水平，但事实就是如此。
AI basically regresses you back to the mean, but that's what it is.
它是在向平均水平靠拢。
It's optimizing for the mean.
没错。
Yes.
如果你在任何方面处于下半部分，AI能帮你提升。
So if you're worse than if you're in the bottom 50% of anything, AI will make you better.
这其实挺划算的。
It's a great deal.
但如果你在任何方面属于上半部分，AI反而会让你变差。
If you're in the top 50% of anything, AI makes you worse.
如果你真想做好一件事，那你就不该处在下半部分。
And if you're trying to do anything, you shouldn't be doing it if you're in the bottom 50%.
所以，说到底，它其实是把你拉回去了。
So presumably, it's actually dragging you back.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得这些技术最棘手的地方在于，我们必须自己主动去寻找新的挑战。
I think the tricky thing with all of this whole concept, all these technologies, is what happens is that it becomes incumbent upon us individually to go find the new difficulty.
选难的路。
Choose hard.
没错。
Exactly.
对吧？
Right?
所以，用AI的同时，还得逼自己保持原创，提出真正独特的想法。
So it's like using AI, but also pushing yourself to still do something original or unique or have original ideas.
问题是，这跟我们的天性完全相反——我们天生就爱走捷径。
And the problem is it's just like, it's really against our You know, our nature is to always choose the path of least resistance.
所以培养这种能力非常难，我觉得很多人根本没练过这种本事。
So it's very hard to develop that muscle, and I think a lot of people just don't have that muscle.
选难的，兄弟。
Choose hard, dude.
好的。
Alright.
下一个。
Next one.
没错。
Yep.
顺便说一下，我第一次听到这个数据时真的挺惊讶的。
A quick aside, there is a stat that genuinely surprised me when I first heard it.
百分之九十五的人纤维摄入量不足。
Ninety five percent of people don't get enough fiber.
不是因为他们粗心，而是单靠饮食达到每日纤维目标其实很难。
Not because they're being careless, but because hitting your daily fiber target through food alone is actually quite hard.
所以Momentous才推出了纤维补充剂。
But that's why Momentous built fiber plus.
其实，纤维不只是关乎消化。
See, fiber isn't just a digestion thing.
它是肠道健康的基础，直接影响你吸收营养的效率、能量的稳定性，以及恢复的速度。
It's the foundation of your gut health, which drives how well you absorb nutrients, how stable your energy is, and how quickly you recover.
如果你的肠道状态没调整好，你做的其他所有事情，效果都会大打折扣。
If your gut isn't dialed in, everything else that you're doing is working at a fraction of its potential.
Fiber Plus 是一种三效合一的配方，同时改善消化、增强肠道屏障功能，以及稳定血糖。
Fiber Plus is a three in one formula built to address digestion, gut barrier strength, and blood sugar stability all at once.
而且这个肉桂味简直绝了。
And this cinnamon flavor is unreal.
你可能会想到纤维。
You might think fiber.
哇。
Wow.
我猜这味道一定很棒。
I bet that tastes great.
嗯，说真的，那些怀疑的人不妨试试。
Well, yeah, actually, does, doubters.
我真的挺喜欢这个产品的。
I really enjoyed this.
最重要的是，Momentous 提供三十天无理由退款保障。
Best of all, Momentous offers a thirty day money back guarantee.
所以如果你还不确定，可以先买一盒 Fiber Plus 试试。
So if you're not sure, you can buy fiber plus.
用上二十九天看看效果。
Try it for twenty nine days.
要是不满意，他们全额退款，而且支持国际配送。
If you don't love it, they'll just give you your money back, and they ship internationally.
现在通过下方链接或访问 livemomentous.com/modernwisdom 并在结账时输入代码 modern wisdom，首订最高可享三五折，还附带三十天退款保障。
Right now, you can get up to 35% off your first subscription and that thirty day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to livemomentous.com/modernwisdom and using the code modern wisdom at checkout.
网址是 livemomentous.com/modernwisdom，记得输入 modern wisdom。
That's livemomentous.com/modernwisdomandmodernwisdom.
结账时。
At checkout.
当你选择伴侣时，无论你有没有意识到，你选的不只是一个人，而是一种生活方式。
When you select a partner, whether you realize it or not, you're choosing a whole lifestyle and not just the person.
你选的是他们的作息时间。
You're choosing their sleep schedule.
你选的是他们的理财习惯。
You're choosing their money habits.
你选的是他们的压力水平、家庭矛盾、整洁程度、工作态度和应对方式。
You're choosing their stress levels, their family drama, their levels of cleanliness, their work ethic, their coping mechanisms.
这些都会成为你日常生活的基础。
All of these things will be a baseline of your daily life.
如果他们的常态是刷手机到凌晨两点、回避一切冲突、冲动消费、从不锻炼，那会怎样？
If their normal is doom scrolling till 2AM, avoiding all conflict, impulse spending, never exercising, guess what?
那你就是在主动进入这样一个生活圈。
You're signing up to live in that ecosystem.
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爱并不能抹去一个人的缺点。
Love does not cancel out people's flaws.
事实上，爱只是让你更能忍耐这些缺点罢了。
In fact, love just makes you tolerate them for longer.
大多数人整天纠结的是，我们之间有没有浪漫的化学反应？
Most people obsess over, do we have romantic chemistry?
但他们完全忽略了：你能和这个人一起过接下来十年的普通周二吗？
And they completely skip, can I live with this person's version of a Tuesday for the next ten years?
现实是，你没法从内部改变一个人的生活方式。
The hard truth is you don't fix somebody's lifestyle from the inside.
你要么接受他本来的样子，要么就离开。
You either accept the package as they are or you walk.
对。
Mhmm.
最近我跟不少单身朋友聊过这个话题，我发现人们往往有一份长长的清单，列满了各种要求。
I've been having this conversation with a lot of single friends recently of What I am noticing is that people tend seem to have kind of this laundry list of requirements.
而且他们总有一种错觉，觉得选择多得是。
And as soon as they and there's this also this false perception of infinite options.
所以只要约会对象稍微不符合他们的条件，就立马想：算了，下一个吧。
And so as soon as the person that they're seeing or that they're on a date with like, fails one of the qualifications, they're like, oh, next, I'm gonna move on.
结果到了四十五岁还是单身，纳闷自己怎么就是找不到人。
And then, of course, they're, you know, 45 and still single and wondering why they never found anybody.
你有没有听过那个故事？我觉得是沃伦·巴菲特说的，他提到：你先列二十个你人生中最想要的东西，按重要性排好序，然后划掉除了前三名之外的所有条目。
And have you ever heard that story that I think it was Warren Buffett where he said that he was like, you know, you write out a list of 20 things that you want in your life, put them in order from the thing that's most important to least important, and then cross out everything but the top three.
我现在基本都让单身的朋友做这个练习。
I've essentially started giving that exercise to my single friends.
因为说实话，你不可能找到样样都符合的人。
Because I'm like, you're not gonna find all of these.
你被洗脑了，总觉得满大街都是能填满所有条件的人，其实根本没那么多。
And you've been brainwashed, you have this false perception that there's a lot of these people out there tick every single box, and there's not.
就算真有，你也大概率遇不上。
And even if there is, you're probably not gonna meet them.
就算你遇到了，人家选择那么多，跟你在一起的可能性微乎其微。
And if you do meet them, they're gonna have so many options that it's gonna be very unlikely that you end up with them.
所以，先确定你那三个绝对不能妥协的条件，其他的都可以商量。
So it's find your three non negotiables, and then negotiate on the rest.
现在跟人说这话简直像在冒天下之大不韪，他们都会说：我不想将就。
And that's like fucking sacrilege these days to tell people because they're like, I don't wanna settle.
这不就是将就吗。
That's like settling.
对。
Yeah.
我不想将就。
I don't wanna settle.
这其实是说，
It's like,
老兄，每个人都会在某些方面妥协的。
dude, everybody settles on something.
我的意思是，你现在没法飞行，这本身就已经是一种妥协了。
I mean, you're settling in that you can't fly at the moment.
对。
Yeah.
你知道的，你每天晚上都得睡觉，这也是一种妥协。
You know, you're settling in that you need to go to bed every night.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我和我老婆已经在一起十四年了。
I mean, dude, there's things that I've been with my wife for fourteen years.
她身上还是有些地方让我气得不行。
There's things about her that still drive me fucking crazy.
但她是个拉丁裔女性。
And But I She's like Latina.
对吧？
Right?
嗯，没错。
Well, yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这其实是难免的。
So that that kind of comes that's part of the course.
没错。
It's yes.
每段关系都这样，但拉丁裔的版本更夸张，声音更大，还动不动就哭。
It's part for every course, but it's the Latina the Latino versions are just much more dramatic and very loud with lots of tears involved.
是挺有火药味的。
Yeah, it's spicy.
就是个加了料的版本。
It's a spicy version.
简直是火辣辣的版本。
It's a Fuego version.
没错。
Exactly.
这就是火辣的约会。
It's Fuego dating.
没错。
Exactly.
但我有一些地方，她真的受不了。
But there's things about me that like she can't stand.
但到了某个时候，你就只能接受了。
But it's like you just accept at a certain point.
你会想，好吧，好处远远多于坏处，那就这样吧。
You're like, okay, the good vastly outweighs the bad and and you go with it.
我觉得那篇帖子之所以这么火，是因为当你在认识和约会别人的时候，水下其实藏着一大片你没注意到的特质、性格、联系和关系，它们虽然看不见，却构成了关系的主体。
And and I think I think the reason that post did so well is, you know, when you are meeting people, when you are dating people, there's this whole kind of like iceberg under the water of traits and characteristics and personality and connections and relationships that you're not really aware of that they're there, but that's actually gonna be the majority of the relationship.
对。
Right.
其实，大多数人谈恋爱的时候，靠的都是感觉。
And really, most people are kinda just going on vibes, you know, when they're dating somebody.
所以我觉得，最好能清醒地意识到这一点，比如她妈妈特别古怪，而你又想和她结婚，那你就得准备好未来四十年有个怪脾气的丈母娘。
And so I just think it's helpful to be like explicitly conscious about it, and understand like, okay, if her mother's crazy, and you wanna marry her, you're gonna have a crazy mother-in-law for forty years.
有些人还挺幸运的，古怪也挺好。
Lucky for some crazy.
没错，这就得认了，因为这本来就是关系的一部分。
Exactly, it's just put it on the plate because it's part of the course.
你不能只挑自己喜欢的，这可不是自助餐。
You can't only It's not a buffet, you don't just take the items you want.
你得全盘接受，就像点套餐一样，不能单点。
You gotta take It's the whole prefix menu.
你知道这个播客最初打算叫什么名字吗？
You know what the original name for this podcast was going to be?
叫什么？
What's that?
把星期二过得特别顺
Crushing a Tuesday.
幸好我没那么干，现在想想真庆幸
The reason for that, glad that I didn't do it.
还有几个名字，比如‘心与物’、‘脑与力’，全都不怎么样
Another one was mind and matter, and another one was brain and brawn, and it was they were horrible.
‘现代智慧’这名字，其实是我在凌晨三点灵光一现想到的
Modern wisdom was divine inspiration that came to me at three in the morning.
是的
Yeah.
好多了
Much better.
谢谢
And thank you.
‘ Crushing Tuesday’这名字也不算差
Crushing Tuesday is not bad.
‘ Crushing a Tuesday ’ 这个说法来自蒂姆·费里斯的一个播客。
Crushing a Tuesday was taken from a Tim Ferriss podcast.
明白了。
Okay.
他说，大多数人总是试图围绕那些巅峰时刻来优化自己的生活。
And what he said was most people try to optimize their lives around peak experiences.
对。
Mhmm.
但你的生活其实是由无数个普通的周二组成的。
But your life is made up of average Tuesdays.
是的。
Yeah.
你的目标应该是让每一个普通的周二都尽可能过得舒服愉快。
And your goal should be to make your average Tuesday as enjoyable as possible.
对。
Yeah.
你在这儿说的就是这个意思，人们关注的都是那些惊艳的性生活或者特别有趣的对话。
And that's what you're talking about here, that what people look at is the amazing sex or the fascinating conversation.
但他们没意识到，这个人平时到底是怎样的。
They don't realize what is this person like normally.
他们的日常行为，那种常态下的表现，到底是什么样的？
What is the middle of their bell curve of just how they operate?
对。
Mhmm.
他们平时都做些什么？
What do they do?
就是他们和现实之间最常发生的互动。
With the most frequent interaction between them and reality.
他们的饮食习惯是怎样的？
What do they do with their diet?
这个挺重要的。
That's pretty important.
他们的睡眠习惯是怎样的？
What do they do with their sleep pattern?
这点挺重要的。
That's pretty important.
这些都是根本性的问题。
These are structural things.
他们怎么应对不适？
How do they deal with discomfort?
情绪激动的时候，他们怎么处理？
How do they deal with things when they're hot?
情绪失控的时候，他们怎么应对？
How do they deal when they're dysregulated?
他们的家人怎么样？
Is their family like?
是的。
Yeah.
他们的生活节奏是怎样的？
What are their timelines like?
你懂的。
You know?
你们的时间线是不是朝着同一个方向走？
Are your timelines in the same moving in the same direction?
那他们和钱的关系怎么样？
And that is What's the relationship with money like?
这就是你所要面对的。
That is what you are signing up for.
没错。
Right.
还有，爱并不能抹去一个人的缺点。
And that line, love does not cancel out people's flaws.
事实上，它只会让你更久地忍耐这些缺点。
In fact, it just makes you tolerate it for longer.
对。
Mhmm.
这正是让很多人感到困惑的地方——他们和根本不适合自己的人谈恋爱。
Which is what's deranging to a lot of people that they get into a relationship with somebody who isn't right for them or isn't good for them.
他们对对方的爱意越深，就越能忍受这段本不该继续的关系，拖得更久。
And the capacity of their love, the intensity of their love just allows them to stay in something which isn't right for even longer.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得很多人会因为自己太看重浪漫的化学反应而感到内疚，但其实他们更该想的是：和这个人一起过周二晚上，真的开心吗？
And I think that people often feel guilty about having optimized for romantic chemistry when what they should have been optimizing for is Tuesday evening with this person enjoyable?
没错。
Right.
确实，浪漫的化学反应很容易吸引你，因为一遇到特别喜欢的人，你就会被这种感觉淹没。
And it's it's easy to optimize for that romantic chemistry because that's what you're flooded with when you meet somebody you really like.
所以你自然就会偏向这种感觉。
So that's what you're gonna be biased towards.
我得补充一下，挺有意思的是，这几年我发过好几版类似的内容，每次评论区总会有几个生气的人说，这不现实，你不能指望一个人能满足你所有要求。
And I should I should add so it's funny because I think I've posted a couple variations of this post over the years, and every every time there's always, like, a couple angry people in the comments who are like, this is unrealistic, you shouldn't expect somebody to satisfy all of these things for you.
但我说的重点并不是，你非得找一个妈妈你喜欢、还特别会理财的人。
And the point of this isn't that you have to go find somebody who has a mother that you like and who's like good with money.
恰恰相反。
The opposite of that.
对，我的意思是，你得找一个你能容忍你所有这些缺点的人，对吧？
Yeah, no, it's like, you have to find somebody that you're willing to tolerate all of those things, right?
他们不是在追求完美无缺，而是在找一个不管怎样都不会低于你底线的人。
So they're not trying to hit a ceiling like you're just trying to find somebody who's like nothing falls below your floor.
而且我觉得，这件事还有其他几个方面。
And it's also, I think a lot of it, there are a couple other facets of this.
其中一个就是，你要想清楚，你自己特别能接受什么样的问题？
I think one is understanding that what are you particularly well equipped to handle?
比如，我妻子是巴西人。
So for example, my wife's Brazilian.
她感情特别丰富。
She has a lot of feelings.
我呢，基本上一直都挺平静的。
And I'm just like very even keeled, pretty much all the time.
要让我真生气，得需要挺大的事儿。
It really takes a lot for me to get worked up about anything.
我就是那种对啥都不在乎的人。
Like I'm the guy who doesn't give a fuck.
所以我们的相处特别合拍。
So it actually works extremely well.
我能应付得了各种情绪。
I can handle a lot of emotions.
这些真吓不着我。
It doesn't really freak me out.
我也不容易被卷入那些乱七八糟的争执里。
I don't get sucked into drama easily.
所以呢，我慢慢明白了，这种类型的伴侣其实挺适合我的，因为我的优势正好能弥补她的不足，反过来也一样。
So there's a certain amount of self knowledge of understanding this is the type of partner that I'm probably well suited for, because my strength kind of resonates well with their weakness, or vice versa.
毕竟我对智力上的交流需求特别高。
Whereas like, you know, I have a very, very strong need for intellectual stimulation.
我很容易就觉得无聊。
I get bored extremely easily.
以前单身的时候，我约会过不少特别有魅力的女生，但她们要么不够聪明，要么对世界没什么好奇心，几分钟我就撑不住了。
And back when I was single, I dated a lot of really cool girls, but who just weren't super smart or curious, And I was bored within minutes.
有的身材超棒，有的在床上也特别棒。
And some of them were smoking hot, some of them were awesome in bed.
我还记得那时候坐着想：我居然真要跟这姑娘分手？
And I remember sitting there being like, can't believe I'm gonna break up with this girl.
她这么好，我到底在干嘛？
Like, she's What am I doing?
可我真的觉得无聊。
But I was bored.
没啥可跟你聊的。
Got nothing to talk to you about.
是啊。
Yeah.
觉得无聊。
Was bored
你和你现在的妻子第一次约会，是在夜店认识的，不到三十分钟，你们就开始聊俄罗斯文学了？
out of Your my first date with your now wife was you met in a nightclub, and within thirty minutes, we're talking about Russian literature?
俄罗斯语法。
Russian grammar.
俄罗斯的
Russian
语法。
grammar.
就是这样。
That's it.
你懂的。
You know?
对。
Yes.
我上次就跟你说过，对于那些爱思考的单身男生，我最好的建议就是赶紧发些奇怪的心理学文章给聊得来的女生，看看谁会回应你。
I told you about this last time that my best piece of advice for sort of the intellectual bros or the intellectually inclined bros when they're single is to speedrun sending weird psychology articles to the girls that you're talking to and to just see who comes back.
这就像一种智力上的考验。
It's like an intellectual shit test.
对。
Yes.
你不是在找聪明的人。
And you're not looking for the smart ones.
你是在找愿意互动的人。
You're looking for the ones that engage.
没错。
Right.
哦，这挺有意思的。
Oh, that's cool.
我以前还真没听过这种做法。
Never never heard of that before.
咱们下次打电话或者一起吃饭的时候再聊聊这个吧。
Like, let's talk about that the next time we get on the phone or next time we go for dinner.
好啊。
Yeah.
就算她们对这事儿一无所知也没关系。
Even if they don't know anything about it.
关键不在于她们懂不懂。
Like, that's not what it's about.
明白了。
Okay.
这个人到底有没有兴趣？
Can I is this person interested?
对。
Mhmm.
他们会主动和我互动。
They're gonna engage with me.
所以，我觉得这挺有意思的。
So, yeah, I think it's funny.
罗里·萨瑟兰有个观点。
Rory Sutherland's got this idea.
他说，你应该找一个‘空气炸锅型’的伴侣，而不是‘菲亚特500型’的。
He says you should have an air fryer girlfriend, not a Fiat 500 girlfriend.
他的意思是，你要找一个只有你能看到她独特价值的人，别人根本看不出她的好。
And what he means by that is you want to find somebody who only you can see the value in in a way that other people can't Mhmm.
而且她有些缺点，也只有你能包容，别人根本受不了。
And who have disadvantages that only you can tolerate in a way that other people can't.
比如说，如果你有个空气炸锅，对吧。
So if you have an air fryer, for instance Mhmm.
这玩意儿会让整个厨房一股味儿。
It's gonna stank up the kitchen.
如果你对气味敏感，家里放这个可真够呛。
If you're sensitive to smells, it's gonna be a bad thing to have in your house.
不然你就得把它搁在阳台或者车库里，用起来麻烦死了。
Or else you're gonna have to put it out on the balcony or in the garage or something like that, that's a bit of a nightmare to use.
我对气味倒没那么在意。
Not that bothered about smells.
你一整天吃的热量，全都能靠这一个机器搞定。
You can have your entire life's calories go through one machine.
他举了个例子，说睡觉时他根本不介意噪音。
He uses the example that he doesn't mind noise when he goes to sleep.
是的。
Mhmm.
他喜欢火车，也爱喝啤酒。
He's a fan of trains, and he likes beer.
所以他住的房子紧挨着一家酒吧，后院正对着铁路线。
So he lived in a house that was next to a pub with a garden that backs onto a railway line.
因为他挺喜欢火车的。
Because he quite likes the trains.
看着火车一趟趟开过去，他反而觉得挺享受的。
They're actually actively sort of enjoyable for him to see going by.
他对火车和啤酒花园的噪音根本不在意，还跟酒吧老板成了好朋友，平时想喝酒，只要趴在围栏上喊一声就行。
He doesn't mind that much about the noise from them or from the beer garden, and he's made good friends to the landlord of the pub, and it means that he can order a beer by leaning over his fence and asking for it.
他能坐在自家院子里，安安静静地感受酒吧里的气氛。
And he can sort of enjoy the atmosphere of the pub from the comfort of his own Mhmm.
家。
Home.
他这么做，就是挑了一套房子。
What he's done is he's been able to get a house.
我觉得那是他在英国乡下的一栋小屋。
I think it's his cottage that's somewhere in the British countryside.
他以一个大多数人仍觉得太贵的价格买下了这套房子，尽管已经打了折。
He's been able to get that at a price that most other people would still think was too much despite the fact that it's discounted Mhmm.
因为他特别能忍受某些别人难以应付的不便和挑战。
Because there are certain inconveniences and challenges that he is particularly well equipped to put up with that other people would struggle with.
是的。
Yeah.
在找伴侣这件事上，道理也是一样的。
And the same thing is true when it comes to choosing a partner.
咱们能再深入聊聊这个吗？
Can we dig into this a little bit?
因为我总觉得，等我有了女朋友……
Because I feel like After I have a girlfriend?
不过我得想想，这话跟我老婆说会是什么反应。
Well, I'll let you know how that goes over with my wife.
说完这个我就回家了。
I'm gonna go home after that.
亲爱的，你就是我的空气炸锅。
Darling, darling, I You're my air fryer.
你是我这个空气炸锅老婆。
You're my air fryer wife.
你就是我的空气炸锅。
You're my air fryer
我啥都能用它做，嗯——
I can cook everything in Well,
你知道的，她是巴西人，生育能力本来就强。
know, that's I mean, she is Brazilian, so they're highly fertile.
没错。
Yes.
而且你更偏向于优化这一块，比我更明显。
And especially, you come more from this optimization world than I do.
但个性化优化才是我一直对很多优化内容感到不满的地方，因为每个人想要的、是谁、天生倾向都太不一样了。
But personalization of optimization This is the thing that always bugged me about a lot of the optimization content out there, because everybody's so different in terms of what they want, and who they are, and like what they're predisposed to.
我觉得每个人在心理环境和人际关系上，也像在运动方面一样，天生就更适应某种类型。
And I think the same way like some people are more predisposed to certain athletic activities or certain physical activities than others, we're all predisposed to like certain psychological environments and certain types of relationships than other people.
我实在搞不懂，为什么大家常常完全忽略这一点。
I just It drives me crazy that there's like no accounting for that often.
比如，住在铁轨旁边，隔道篱笆就能点啤酒，这种生活状态根本没人提。
Like, there's no discussion of how it's, yeah, living next to a train track where you can order a beer over a fence.
可对某些人来说，这种生活方式说不定恰恰最理想。
It's like, that might actually be optimal for one person's life.
但你永远别想在健康或健身类的节目里看到这种例子。
Whereas you would never see that like broadcasts on, you know, health and fitness experience.
这才是你应该选的房子，赶上的最佳生活方式。
This is the optimal wave that you should get your house.
你看看它有多少好处。
Look at all of the advantages.
但我们都知道，这些好处太小众了，只适合极少数人。
Well, we know that those advantages are so niche that it only addresses a very small cohort of people.
没错。
Right.
但这里默认的前提是，所有的优化建议都是为了——
But the assumption here is all optimization advice is optimizing for-
一般来说。
In general.
对。
Exactly.
确实如此。
Yeah.
你记得那个研究吗？他们曾经试图为美国新型战斗机设计飞行员座椅。
You know that study about they tried to engineer fighter pilot seats inside of US fighter jets, a new US fighter jet.
他们把所有飞行员的体型数据平均了一下，想做出一个符合平均尺寸的座椅，结果发现没有一个飞行员能合适地坐下。
They took all of the fighter pilots and averaged their body dimensions so that they could design the seat that was the average of them all, and it fitted zero pilots.
所以根本就不存在所谓的‘平均’。
So there's no such thing as average.
没错。
Right.
根本不存在这回事。
There is no such thing.
所谓普通人，实际上根本不存在。
The average person literally doesn't exist.
那只是各种特征的综合而已。
They're an aggregate of everything.
对。
Mhmm.
比如说，假设你在图上画出人群的分布，形状像一对乳房。
But, I mean, let's say, for instance, that you had a distribution of people on a graph that looked like a pair of boobs.
明白。
Okay.
对吧？
Right?
所以你这边实际上有两个部分。
So you have sort of two there.
对。
Yeah.
那平均值在哪呢？
Where's the average?
其实它可能出现在一个
It's actually at a point where maybe
根本没人存在的地方。
nobody Nobody
那儿根本没人。
is there.
对。
Yeah.
你明白吧？
You know?
是的。
Yeah.
这就是这么做的问题所在。
This is the problem with doing it.
我明白，对建议做笼统概括是我一直尽量避免的事情。
And I understand that sweeping generalizations about advice is something that I've always steered away from when I can.
是的。
Yeah.
这确实严重损害了我的可信度，因为我还做过其他很多同样损害可信度的事。
And it's been massively to the detriment of my credibility, because I've I've done other things that are massively to the detriment of my credibility as well.
但其中一个原因是，人们喜欢确定性。
But one of the reasons is people love certainty.
对。
Mhmm.
他们喜欢绝对的说法。
They love absolutes.
人们就喜欢确定性。
They love certainty.
这其实是因为不确定性真的很难应对。
And this goes back to the fact that uncertainty is very difficult to deal with.
对。
Mhmm.
如果我听到有人说：我们很清楚，这种情况就是这样。
If I listen to someone who says, well, we know we know that this is the case.
我们知道以色列在做什么。
We know what Israel's doing.
我们知道每天该摄入多少蛋白质。
We know how much protein you should have per day.
我们知道最好的睡眠方法是什么。
We know what the best sleep formula is.
你一听，哎呀，太好了，这下我不用再操心了。
You go, well, fucking hell, like, I don't need to worry anymore.
世界上所有的混乱，所有事情可能走向的其他方向。
All the chaos of the world, all of the different directions that things could have gone in.
我不需要去应付这些。
I don't need to I don't need to wrangle with that.
对。
Yeah.
说‘大致上没错’可没那么吸引人。
And it's way less sexy to say, well, it's directionally correct that.
情况似乎就是这样。
It seems to be the case.
在大多数情况下，我觉得这么说虽然不够酷，但对人来说更准确。
In most circumstances, I would estimate that it is good to it's way less sexy, but it's much more accurate for people.
如果你是那种人——这也是为什么我在整个播客里总看到，当有人对某条建议发火时，尤其是当这些建议还加了前提条件时，他们总会说：‘但有个别例外，其实我觉得……’，嘿，老兄。
If you're the sort of person and this is why for the whole podcast, and I see this all the time, when people get pissy about some piece of advice that's been put forward, especially when it's being caveated, Well, the outlier, actually, I think you'll find it's like, hey, dude.
如果这不适合你，那也没关系。
If this is not for you, that's fine.
但你有分辨能力，并不意味着你就该说‘这不适合我’。
But your ability to discern doesn't mean what you should say is, that's not for me.
我在想，这话会不会对别人有用。
I wonder if it is for anybody else.
对。
Mhmm.
你能想象吗？万一这条建议其实是给别人的呢？
Can you imagine if that piece of advice is for somebody else?
如果是这样，那你就好好闭嘴吧。
And if so, then, like, shut the fuck up.
没错。
Right.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这段内容明明不是给你的，却偏偏找上了你；这条建议明明不适合你，却偏偏传到了你耳中，你第一反应应该是：哇。
This piece of content that isn't for you found you, or this piece of advice that isn't for you found you, your first port of call should be, wow.
我不禁想，这种事真的会在任何人身上发生吗？
I wonder if that actually exists for anybody.
天啊。
Fuck.
我其实能想到，我生活中有个人，这条建议对他可能挺有帮助的——但人类的差异真有这么大吗？
I I actually can imagine somebody that it would be good for that's in my life, or how varied are we as humans that that's the case?
这不挺有意思的吗？
Isn't that interesting?
不过反过来，我经常看到另一种情况，反而更让我担心：人们听到一条普遍性的建议，就拿来套在自己身上。
The the flip side of that, there's a flip side version of that that I see a lot that actually concerns me even more, which is that people will hear a general piece of advice.
然后试着去实践。
They will try it on themselves.
结果却不奏效。
It won't work.
他们不会想，也许是我自己跟别人不太一样，得调整一下，反而觉得是自己出了问题。
And instead of coming to the conclusion of like, oh, there's just something different about me, and I need to adjust accordingly, they assume that there's something wrong.
问题出在那些建议上？
In the advice.
不是，是他们自己有问题。
No, with them.
哦，原来如此。
Oh, okay.
他们觉得那些建议是金科玉律，对吧？
They're like, the advice is the gold standard, right?
对，那些建议来自那位先生。
Yeah, It came from Mr.
导师
Guru
或者那位先生。
or Mr.
明明是顶尖博士，却怎么都不奏效，于是他们就觉得一定是自己哪里做错了。
Super PhD, but it's not working for them, so therefore they must be doing something wrong.
肯定是他们有问题，所以得去找更细致的方案，然后严格执行。
Something's wrong with them, and so they need to go find an even more detailed protocol and implement it even more strictly.
结果你就看到他们慢慢陷入一种强迫症式的循环。
And you see them kinda get into this like OCD spiral.
过度优化的循环。
Over optimization spiral.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
追求完美的痛苦，比你的不完美更能把你拖垮。
The pain of trying to be perfect will kill you more quickly than your imperfections will.
是的。
Yeah.
我在我节目里经常提醒听众一件事：在心理学领域，如果你把所有可能的干预方法都翻一遍，看看它们的有效率，最好的也不过五成左右。
The one thing that I remind my listeners on my show of all the time is that the best, most credible piece of advice in psychology, if you look at all the literature in terms of every intervention imaginable every intervention imaginable and, like, what its hit rate is, it's, like, maybe fifty percent.
也就是说，哪怕是最顶尖的疗法，配上特别优秀的治疗师，成功率也就刚过五成。
You know, like, the very best forms of therapy with a really good therapist, it's, maybe cracks over fifty percent.
所以，没有任何一种方法能对所有人都一直有效，你反而应该做好心理准备——大概有一半的方法对你没用。
So it's none of this stuff is gonna work for everybody all the time, and in fact, you should expect that roughly half of it is not gonna work for you.
这还是最好的情况。
At best.
这还是最好的情况。
At best.
因此，你得自己去尝试各种方法，记录哪些有用、哪些没用，诚实地评估效果，然后根据实际情况调整方向。
And so it is it is your responsibility to try everything, track what what's working, what's not, be honest with yourself about what's working, what's not, and then like move forward accordingly.
在继续之前，我要说，大多数三十多岁的人还在认真训练。
Before we continue, most people in their thirties are still training hard.
他们的蛋白质摄入也已经调整到位了。
Their protein is dialed in.
他们的睡眠质量比二十多岁时更好了。
They sleep better than they did in their twenties.
自律不是问题，但恢复的感觉确实不一样了。
Discipline is not the issue, but recovery feels somewhat different.
力量的增长变得慢了一些。
Strength gains take a little longer.
容错的空间越来越小了。
The margin for error starts to shrink.
所以我很推崇Timeline这个产品。
And that is why I'm such a huge fan of Timeline.
线粒体是肌肉细胞里的能量工厂。
You see, mitochondria are the energy producers inside of your muscle cells.
随着年龄增长，线粒体功能下降，即使你的生活习惯没变，力量输出和恢复能力也会受影响。
As they weaken with age, your ability to generate power and recover effectively changes, even if your habits stay strong.
Timeline的Mitopure含有唯一在人体试验中得到临床验证的乌列林A成分。
Mitopure from Timeline contains the only clinically validated form of Urytholin A used in human trials.
它能促进线粒体自噬，这是身体清除受损线粒体、更新健康线粒体的自然机制。
It promotes mitophagy, which is your body's natural process for clearing out damaged mitochondria and renewing healthy ones.
研究显示，这种成分能帮助老年人改善线粒体功能，增强肌肉力量。
In studies, this supported mitochondrial function and muscle strength in older adults.
这并不是要你更拼命地练。
It's not about pushing harder.
而是真正去支持你训练背后那些细胞层面的机制。
It's about actually supporting the cellular machinery underneath your training.
如果你在乎自己在三十岁、四十岁、五十岁乃至更久之后还能保持力量，那这一点至关重要。
If you care about staying strong into your thirties, forties, and fifties and beyond, this is foundational.
最棒的是，现在购买享受三十天无理由退款，美国境内包邮，还支持全球配送。
Best of all, there is a thirty day money back guarantee plus free shipping in The US, and they ship internationally.
现在通过下方链接访问 timeline.com/modernwisdom，结账时输入代码 modernwisdom，最高可享八折优惠。
And right now, you can get up to 20% off by going to the link in the description below or heading to timeline.com/modernwisdom and using the code modern wisdom at checkout.
就是 timeline.com/modernwisdom，结账时用 modernwisdom 这个代码。
That's timeline.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout.
你过得难，不代表别人就得对你有耐心。
Nobody owes you patience just because you've had a rough upbringing or a hard day.
生活从不给谁开同情票。
Life doesn't hand out pity passes.
把痛苦当动力，别当拐杖。
Use your pain as fuel, not a crutch.
心理韧性不是靠一直开心练出来的。
You don't build psychological resilience by feeling good all the time.
心理韧性是靠学会承受痛苦练出来的。
You build psychological resilience by getting better at feeling bad.
这肯定是2025年或者2026年发的，因为2016到2022年间你根本不敢发这种话。
That is definitely a that was definitely posted in 2025 or 2026, because that's the sort of thing that you could not post between 2016 and 2022.
发了我早就被网暴了。
It would have gotten me canceled.
各种讲白人男性特权之类的话。
All sorts of proclamations about white male privilege or whatnot.
我的意思是，
I mean,
这确实，
it's
世界上确实有真正的受害者，有些人遭受的苦难完全不公平，也不是他们的错。
difficult because there are genuine victims in the world, and there are people who have genuinely suffered lots of shit that is not fair and not their fault.
这些人值得同情，但并不一定值得更多东西。
And those people deserve sympathy, but they don't necessarily deserve anything more than that.
我觉得我们正逐渐走出那个阶段，但之前有一段非常激烈的时期，当时很多人觉得自己理所当然该被特殊对待——我在一本书里管这叫‘受害程度竞赛’。
And I think we're kind of coming out of this period, but we went through a very intense period where there was a lot of entitlement associated with, like I think in one of my books I called it the Victimhood Olympics.
对，
Mhmm.
你现在看很多极左团体，就能明白这一点。
Right, it's like, and you see this now with like a lot of like super lefty groups, you know.
比如有人说：‘我是被虐待过的有色原住民，还长了三条腿。’接着另一个人就说：‘我可不一样，我是一条腿的被虐待跨性别原住民，我的声音比你更有分量。’
It's like well, I am an abused indigenous person of color who grew up with three legs, and then it's like the next person is like, well, as a person who grew up with one leg and is a abused transsexual indigenous person, like, my voice actually carries more weight than yours.
我有麸质不耐受。
And I've got gluten intolerance.
是的，没错。
Yeah, yeah.
到某个时候，谁还在乎这些啊？
It's like at a certain point, it's like, who fucking cares?
你能怎么办呢？
Like what are you gonna do?
说得对。
Correct.
对吧？
Right?
你总不能天天盯着自己的痛苦算分，好像这能给你挣勋章似的。
Like what, you can't like just sit around measuring your pain every day as if it's like, you know, it it it earns you merit badges.
对。
Mhmm.
我不得不翻出这个来。
I've had to pull this up.
这是最到位的观点之一。
This is one of the best takes.
亚历克斯·霍尔莫齐因为说过类似的话而惹上了麻烦——没人因为你过得难或者童年不幸，就该对你有耐心。
So Alex Hormozi got in trouble for saying this, the same thing, that nobody owes you patience just because you've had a rough day or a hard upbringing.
是的。
Yeah.
他还专门写了一篇回应。
And he wrote a response.
他这篇写得简直太棒了。
This is fucking money by him.
如果你确实有过不利的处境，我同意你的说法。
If you had disadvantages, I agree with you.
你说得对。
You are right.
如果你经历了某些事，成功会更难。
It's harder to be successful if x happened to you.
把‘X’替换成性别、种族、出生缺陷、语言不同、国家不同、遭受虐待等等。
Replace X with gender, race, birth deformity, different language, different country, abuse, etc.
这场长谈的核心是，不管有多不利，你只有一种选择：你打算怎么办？
The main point of the longer conversation is that, despite the disadvantage, you only have one choice: What are you gonna do about it?
第一，不管怎样先行动起来，成为像你一样、和你同命运的人的榜样，证明他们也能走出困境。
Number one, take action anyway and become proof to other people like you, your people, also born into this abused tragedy that you too can overcome it, and they can as well.
第二，抱怨和归咎于别人。
Number two, blame and complain.
说清楚一点，你爱怎么选都行。
And to be clear, do whatever you want.
我尊重你的决定，但只有其中一个选择能让你变得更好，真希望我说这话时不会被攻击。
I support your choice, but only one of those decisions will make you better, and I wish I could say this without getting attacked.
但你知道，谁最希望你失败吗？
But you know who wins by you not being successful?
无论你把责任推给谁、推给什么。
Whoever and whatever you blame.
去他的，都去他的。
Fuck that and fuck them.
你可以独自发起一场反抗，把责任归于唯一你能掌控的东西——你自己。
You can lead a rebellion of one and blame the one thing you can control, which is you.
在你心里，把‘责怪’重新定义为‘赋予力量’。
In your mind, redefine the word blame as give power to.
对。
Mhmm.
一旦你这么做了，你就只想把更多力量赋予一个人，那就是你自己。
And when you do that, there's only one person you're gonna wanna give more power to, and that's you.
对于所有经历过糟糕境遇的人，我站在你这边，站在你长远利益这边，站在希望你成功的这边。
For everyone who had shitty circumstances, I'm on your side, your long term side, the side that wants you to win.
所以，尽管有这么多不利条件，依然行动起来，告诉他们滚蛋，然后赢。
So do it anyway with all the disadvantages and still tell them to shove it and win.
我想再明确一下。
I wanna be clear again.
如果你遭遇了糟糕的事，确实很糟，但这不是你的错。
If you had tough shit happen to you, it sucks, and that's not your fault.
那现在怎么办？
But now what?
我们接下来该去哪儿？
Where do we go?
真奇怪，有那么多前提条件，还有那些什么的。
It crazy how many caveats and like, you know
一堆铺垫和免责声明？
Throat clearing land acknowledgments?
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
老兄，我老是因为说话方式惹麻烦，有些人听了不舒服，可另一些人却当成人生信条来奉行。
Dude, I got in I I I continue I continue to fucking get in trouble by saying things that to some people doesn't land right and to other people becomes a mantra that they live by.
对啊。
Mhmm.
我明白，设定目标、强加责任，会让那些因非自身原因而觉得达不到的人，觉得他们已经受了伤，还要再被罚一次。
And, yeah, the the I understand because creating any goal to aim for and degree of obligation can make people who feel like that's out of reach for a reason that isn't their fault feel like they are being made to pay twice for something that hurt them.
对啊。
Mhmm.
这真的让人特别沮丧。
And that fucking blows.
但这也让交流变得特别别扭，我真的很讨厌这样。
But it also makes communication really clunky, and I hate it.
是的。
Yeah.
简直太明显了。
Like, it's so Yeah.
一遍又一遍。
Over and over.
而且这也是一种很肤浅的共情方式。对。
And it it's such a a shallow form of empathy as well Yes.
总以为只有把那些明显不切实际的极端情况（也就是两端各5%的人）考虑进去，把所有人都囊括进来，才算是有爱心。而不是说，嘿，我现在是在跟一个非常特定的群体说话。
To to assume that the only way that you can be caring is if you think about the middle 90% minus the two fives on the end that are obviously unrealistic for you to have thought about, that you have to include all of these people as opposed to, Hey, I'm speaking to a very specific cohort of people now.
是的，我认为这种共情其实完全是虚伪的。因为如果我只是因为对方的肤色、性别或性取向而同情他们，那恰恰是他们最不希望被同情的点。
Yeah, I would argue the empathy is actually completely disingenuous because it's, Right, like if I'm empathizing with somebody strictly because of the color of their skin, and their gender, and their sexual orientation, like that's exactly what they don't wanna be empathized for.
没错。
Correct.
所以这招反而起了反作用。
So it's backfiring.
就像整个策略都适得其反，我们一开始
Like the whole strategy is backfiring in the We first
在我去澳大利亚做节目之前，我们聊过这事。去过悉尼那场演出的朋友应该还记得，詹姆斯在我上台前做暖场表演时，一上来就火力全开。他中途说了句话，虽然我不太想说，但他承认：我是个种族主义者。
were talking before I did my show in Australia, and to the people who came to the Sydney show, you will remember that James came out swinging when he did his warm up set before me, and he made a comment partway through, which was, I hate to say it, but I'm racist.
我对一个非常特定的群体有偏见，就是意大利人。
And I'm racist against a very unique group of people, and it's Italians.
他说：我知道自己对意大利人有偏见，因为我爱吃意大利菜，但就是不喜欢意大利人。
He says, I know that I'm racist against Italians because I love the food, but I still don't like the people.
演出进行到一半，有位女士突然插话，说我是被安排出来替詹姆斯道歉的。
And there was a a lady lady halfway through the show who vibed up and said that I was made to basically do the apology for James.
她直接说：我觉得你得更小心一点，别在节目里做那些容易惹人反感的评判。
She piped up and said, I really think that you need to be more careful about, you know, some of the sort of judgments that are being made in the show.
我开了个玩笑，詹姆斯也开了个玩笑。
I'd I'd I'd make a joke, and James had made a joke.
她说：这样会让很多人不舒服，还显得排外，诸如此类。
And she's like, you know, this is sort of making make people uncomfortable, and it's exclusionary and all the rest of it.
那一刻，我心里就一句：操。
And it was one of those moments where I'm like, fuck.
现场两千四百多人全盯着我，看我怎么应对这个局面。
There's, like, 2,499 other people in here looking at me to see if I can handle this situation.
我这才明白，真正的平等就是你得和别人一样忍受同样的破事。
And I I realized that true equality is when you have to put up with the same level of shit that everybody else does.
对。
Mhmm.
如果你想真正被接纳，最包容的社会就是别对你另眼相待、小心翼翼。
If you want to be properly, properly included, the most inclusive society, it's to not be treated with kid gloves.
是的。
Yeah.
如果有人因为觉得我扛不住，就对我特殊对待，这种带着怜悯的温柔，反而让我觉得特别恶心，这根本就是偏见。
If you told me that somebody was treating me differently because they thought that I couldn't handle it or something, that is a kind of bigotry and patronizing cotton wool gentleness that would make me feel so fucking icky.
对。
Mhmm.
天哪。
Be like, oh my god.
你根本不是我的朋友。
You are not my friend.
对。
Mhmm.
你不是我的朋友。
You are not my friend.
但那是否意味着，你要把刚开始训练的人，和职业运动员一样对待？
Yet does that mean that you push the person who's only just started training at the same level that you push the person that's a professional athlete?
显然不是。
Obviously not.
但在参与讨论这件事上，我觉得真正的平等，就是和别人一样承受同样的糟心事。
But when it comes to including people in discourse, I think that, yeah, true equality is when you put up with the same level of shit that everybody else does.
对。
Mhmm.
在澳大利亚，这事儿挺有意思的。
That's funny in Australia, man.
我刚想起来。
I I'm just remembering.
几年前我在布里斯班做过一场演出，当时我编了个段子。
I did a show a couple years ago in Brisbane, and I had this bit in the show.
我聊到了弗洛伊德。
I was talking about Freud.
你们那边的演出也会这样吗？
You know, do they do this in your shows out there?
澳大利亚有个传统，舞台上会安排一位手语翻译。
So Australia has this thing where they have like the sign language person on stage.
不是。
No.
所有内容都得用手语翻译出来。
Signing for everything.
那他们给你也配了手语翻译吗？
Did they have one for you?
是的。
Yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
就是我所有的
Like all all of my
澳大利亚有很多聋人粉丝吗？
Do do you have many deaf fans in Australia?
布里斯班？
Brisbane?
我不清楚。
I don't know.
从来没听你们提起过。
Never hear from you.
天哪。
Fuck me.
你这话说得正好。
You walked right in
房间里。
the room.
是的。
Yeah.
每场演出时，舞台上有个家伙站在角落，负责所有那些
So every show, yeah, I had a There was a guy on stage, on the corner of the stage, like doing all the
科学？太棒了。
science Cool.
而且
And
我特意在演出中安排了一个环节，专门讲弗洛伊德，还有他那些比较离谱的理论。
So I I implemented a segment of the show when I had a whole section about Freud, and some of Freud's like wackier theories.
我还专门讲过弗洛伊德对阴茎、母亲、带着阴茎的母亲、和母亲发生关系这些事着了迷，我滔滔不绝地讲，然后让台下的人打手语
And I had a segment where I talked about how Freud had an obsession with dicks, moms, moms with dicks, fucking moms with dicks, and I just like went on and on, and then like I would like make the person sign
简直不敢相信。
every Unbelievable.
弗洛伊德对‘有阴茎的妈妈’着迷，用哑语怎么表达啊？
What does what does Freud's obsession with fucking moms with dicks in sign language look like?
我不清楚，但看着手语翻译变得特别尴尬，真的特别好笑。
I don't know, but it was just so funny to like watch the signer just get so uncomfortable.
太棒了。
Wonderful.
是的。
Yeah.
那真是现场的高光时刻。
It was a great crowd moment.
但有一次在布里斯班，问答环节结束后，一位女士站起来，直接指责我有跨性别歧视，还教训我说我有道德责任，因为
But there was one time in Brisbane where in the Q and A afterward, a woman got up and basically started chastising me for transphobia, and lecturing me about how I had like a moral responsibility Because of
是因为‘有阴茎的妈妈’这件事？
the mums with dicks thing?
对。
Yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
对。
Right.
不错。
Cool.
而且我有这个平台，还有这些影响力。
And because I have a platform and all this stuff.
没错。
Yep.
有意思的是，观众立刻就开始嘘她。
It was interesting because the crowd just instantly started booing her.
不过挺搞笑的，我当时想借机做个教育性的回应，就说了一句跟你类似的话：你看，如果我们连这个都不能笑，那就不叫包容了。
But it was funny because like I tried to use it as kind of a teaching moment, and I said something very similar to you, which is like, look, if you It's not a quality if we can't laugh about
对。
it.
对吧？
Right?
只要某件事变得太脆弱，脆弱到根本不能被提起，必须被极端地保护起来。
Like if if As long as something is so Like, it can't even be spoken of because it is Needs to be It's so fragile and it needs to be protected to like such an extreme extent.
这根本不是平等。
That's not equality.
在很多方面，这其实是平等的反面。
That's actually kind of the opposite of equality in lot of ways.
我不确定有没有说服谁，但那确实是个挺有意思的时刻。
I don't know if I convinced anybody of anything, but it was a fun moment.
至少聋人群体是被说动了。
Well, certainly the deaf people got convinced.
是的。
Yeah.
吉米·卡尓有句话说，告诉你有些问题太严重不能开玩笑，就像说有些疾病太严重不能研发药物一样。
Jimmy Carr's got a line where he says, telling me that there is a problem too serious to joke about is like saying there's a disease too bad to create medicine for.
是的。
Yeah.
你会觉得，这种解决方式能帮人们以没那么沉重的心态来看待这个问题。
You go like, this is the solve that helps people to see this problem with less seriousness.
对。
Mhmm.
这并不是冷漠。
It's not being callous.
也不是轻率对待，而是真正地在帮助他们。
It's not being flippant with it, but it's helping them.
如果任何人曾经经历过一件对自己特别重要的事，你是希望别人把它看得更严肃，还是希望有人能帮你找到一种方式，让事情变得轻松一点？
If anybody has ever had a problem that's felt really important to them, have they wanted to take it more seriously, or would they like to be able to find a way to actually inject some yeah.
这不就是这么回事吗？这难道不有趣吗？
Like, that is isn't that like, isn't that funny?
幽默，是有疗愈作用的。
Humor, it's therapeutic.
说来也挺有意思，吉米·卡尓有句名言，让我想起了这个。
It's funny actually, Jimmy Carr quote, it reminds me.
我奶奶去世的时候，我大概十四十五岁，是脑瘤。
So my grandmother, she died of a brain tumor when I was probably 14, 15.
那种特别糟糕的癌症。
And it was one of these like awful cancers.
她走得很慢，受了很多苦。
Like she died very slow.
是慢性的。
Rapid ons.
哦，是缓慢的。
Oh, Slow.
对，大概持续了八到十二个月吧。
Yeah, over the course of like, you know, probably eight or twelve months.
我们眼睁睁看着她每周都变得更糟，一周接着一周。
And we just watched her deteriorate like week after week after week.
那真的太难受了。
And it was awful.
我们每个周末都去看她，陪在她身边。
Like we would spend every weekend with her, and we'd go see her.
我奶奶特别有幽默感，她甚至给自己的肿瘤起了个名字，
And My grandmother had a great sense of humor, and so she started cracking jokes about She named her tumor,
然后
and she
整天拿这个肿瘤开玩笑。
was cracking jokes about her tumor all the time.
后来情况越来越糟，气氛就开始有点尴尬了，你知道吧？
And when it got really bad, it started to get awkward, you know?
她连路都走不动了，浑身疼，记忆力也衰退了，可还是不停地拿那个该死的肿瘤开玩笑。
So she's like, she can't walk anymore, hurt, she's having memory problems, but she's still cracking jokes about the fucking tumor.
再后来，我姑姑实在受不了了，就对她说：‘莫琳，你别再拿这事开玩笑了，这真的太让人难过了。’
And then at a certain point, like, my aunt got really upset and she was like, know, she was like, Maureen, like, you can't joke about this, this is really ups It's upsetting.
我记得我奶奶说过，她说，这世上没有什么是严肃到不能拿来开玩笑的。
And I remember my grandmother said, she was like, There's nothing so serious in this life that you can't laugh about it.
她说，这是我的肿瘤，我想怎么调侃它就怎么调侃它。
She was like, It's my tumor, I'm gonna I'm gonna at it if I want.
她说，我要是觉得好笑
She's like, I'm gonna make
我就随便拿它开玩笑。
any joke I want about it.
不过，是的。
But Yeah.
这件事我一直记在心里。
That always stuck with me.
这也是我深信不疑的一点。
And it's something that, like, I I believe very deeply as well.
对。
Yeah.
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