#994 - 山姆·苏莱克 - 永无止境的进步追求

如果你不练健美，你觉得你会痴迷于什么其他事情呢？

If you weren't doing bodybuilding, what do you think you'd be obsessing over instead?

我觉得我的意思是，总得痴迷点什么。但说实话，我算是幸运的，一开始练健...我甚至都没说健美。只有...而且人们也常说，如果你不参赛，你就不是健美运动员。就像，当某人第一次参加比赛时，他们有点想表达这种，嗯，你知道的， glamour（魅力）。精英就是...就像，我参加了比赛，所以我是健美运动员。

I think it I mean, it would have to be something. But, honestly, my, I was kinda lucky starting off body I I I didn't even say bodybuilding. The only, and this is something people say anyway, if you don't compete, you're not a bodybuilder. Like, it's a little because when someone does their first show, you know, they kind of want to express this, like, you know, glamour about it. Elite is It's like, I'm a bodybuilder because I competed.

但我有点认同这个观点。所以在我真正参赛之前，我总是把自己描述为，嗯，就说是个举重爱好者，因为重点更多不是为了参加健美比赛。就像，当我练手臂的时候，我不会想，好吧，我需要手臂再大一点，这样我才能在舞台上打败这家伙。我觉得更多是，我希望它们为我变得更大。

You just but I I kinda lean into that. So before I actually competed, I was I'd always describe myself as, like, just I'd say a lifter because that is the point wasn't more so to compete in bodybuilding. Like, when I'm working at arms, I'm not thinking, like, okay. I need arms to be a little bit bigger so that I can beat this guy on stage. I think it's more so I want them to be bigger for me.

然后，一旦我达到某个水平，这就起作用了，就像，好吧，现在是时候参赛了。它一直在计划清单上，但它不是重点，尤其是在开始时。对我来说，我就是想变大。我11到16岁的时候练过体操。

And then that kinda played into once I was at a certain level, like, okay. Now it's about time to compete. Like, it was always on the list, but it wasn't, like, the point, especially not in the beginning. For me, I'm like, I just wanna get big. I I did gymnastics when I was, like, 11 to 16.

我觉得那挺好的，但我不像是能拿到大学奖学金的那种水平，更别说奥运会了。但，嗯，很有趣。有一个叫康纳的家伙，他是年纪大点的那位。现在我看他可能不一样了，但当时，他太疯狂了。他块头巨大。

I think it was good, but I wasn't, like, gonna be college level scholarship, like, no Olympic. But, like, it was fun. And there's one guy named Connor who is he's the older dude. And now I might not look at him the same way, but at the time, he was nuts. He was huge.

嗯。所以我们所有人，每当我们做力量或体能训练时，我想那可能就是埋下的一些种子。因为我当时每天练四个小时，像初中、高中早期那样。

Mhmm. So we all whenever we do, like, strength or conditioning, that's how I think that was probably some of the seed that got planted. Because I was doing, like, four hours a day, like, middle school, early high school.

所以你已经有了一种痴迷？

So you already had one obsession?

所以对我来说就是这样。我从来不需要被逼着去做，因为我很兴奋，觉得很有趣。当我停止体操后，转向健美正好是我已经有点兴趣的事情，而且完美契合。就像我们每年夏天都会说，这个夏天我们真的要开始锻炼了，但从来没有实现过。

So I that was, like, it. Like, every it wasn't and I never had to be dragged to do it because, like, I was excited. It was fun. So once I quit doing that, to switch it with the bodybuilding just happened to be something I was already kind of interested in, and it just fit perfectly. Like, we would talk every summer where some of the guys would be like, okay, this summer we're actually gonna work out, and we never did it.

但当我真正停止体操后，我就用健美取代了它。如果不是健美，假设有另一个平行宇宙的我，或者我突然有了兴趣，比如想着'如果能像Rob Scalen那样弹吉他就太棒了'——他是个喜欢吉他的YouTuber，或者任何其他事情。那也可能成为我的新爱好，但碰巧是健美。

But once I actually quit doing it, that's what I replaced it with. But if it wasn't bodybuilding, let's say there was a alternate universe Sam, or I've got the itch where it's like, oh, it'd be awesome if I could play guitar like Rob Scalen. He's a he's a he's a YouTuber who's, you know, into guitars and everything or just anything. Like, that could have been it. But it happened to be, like, okay.

我要开始认真锻炼了。

I'm gonna get into working out really serious.

而且

And

这正好也完美适合我。

that also just happened to be the perfect match for me.

你还保持着体操带来的柔韧性吗？

Have you held on to the bendiness from gymnastics at all?

有一点。当我拉伸时，我可以放松身体。但当我在非赛季摄入大量碳水时，深蹲其实有点难受，因为我会感觉...

A little. I can like, when I stretch, I can loosen up. But when I'm off season full of carbs, like, it actually kinda sucks to squat because I get like

一切都这么紧绷吗？

How tight everything is?

一切都更紧了。当我节食减重时，我能轻松把手放在深蹲杠下面。嗯。但当我吃很多食物的时候，比如体重到270磅左右时，我得坐在那里拉伸五分钟才行。

Everything is tighter. When I'm dieted down, I can get my hands under squat bar fine. Mhmm. But when I'm eating a lot of food, like, when I'm more like a two seventy, like, I'm sitting there for five minutes just trying to stretch out.

迈克·以色列做了个背部手术，被切开了。他们移除了脂肪。去掉了脂肪细胞。然后把他缝合起来。就像是个重大的创伤性手术。

Mike Israel had a some back surgery thing on him, and it's cut open. They've removed fat. They've got rid of fat cells. They've stitched him back up. It's like a big traumatic surgery.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。我问他经历过最痛苦的事情是什么，他说是他们让他仰面躺着，手臂像这样张开。对。他说醒来时最痛苦的是，他的手臂一直举过头顶好几个小时。

Yeah. And I asked him what the most painful thing that he went through was, and it was that he said they'd laid him on his back with his arms like this. Yeah. And he said he woke up, the most painful thing was the fact that he'd been in an overhead position with his arms over his head for a few hours.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。这总是让我觉得好笑。

That's right. That always makes me laugh.

我从未听说过那部分。不过我确实看到了。如果出于某种原因我做了类似的手术，我可能不会发布那种手术照片，比如带着血渍的衬衫。

I never heard that part. I did see that, though. Some of those if I had something done like that for whatever reason, I probably wouldn't post that surgery picture with, like, the bloody shirt.

那个男人毫无羞耻心。他就是

That man has no shame. He just

但这某种程度上也挺酷的，因为他确实能炫耀一番。

But that's kinda that's kinda cool too, because he actually gets to show it off.

我觉得，你知道为什么人们会与你产生共鸣吗？即使人们没有直接看到自己像迈克那样背部被切开，或者像你那样花大量时间痴迷于健身房，但他们看到的是一个透明真实的人。对吧？我认为这就是产生共鸣的地方。真实性孕育着共鸣。

Well, I think, you know, why is it that people have resonated with you? A very sort of transparent look into even if people don't see themselves directly in Mike getting his back cut open or you spending a lot of time obsessing about the gym, what they do see is a person being transparent. Right? And that's where relatability comes from, I think. Like, authenticity breeds relatability.

而且，如果迈克只是消失一段时间，然后带着更细的腰和一些疤痕回来，人们可能会觉得，嘿，这是怎么回事？我觉得那样会显得不太可信。

And, you know, if Mike had just disappeared and come back with a smaller waist and some scars, people would have been like, hey. What's going on? And I think that that wouldn't feel very legitimate.

是的。你说得对。这是个很好的思考角度。这件事我原本没有计划要这样，但这个周末我收到了很多问题，就像我们所有人都会遇到的那样。即使是只有一万粉丝的人也会被问——没关系的。

Yeah. No. That's a good way of thinking about it. That's one thing where I didn't plan for it to be like that, but I got a lot of questions this whole weekend where it's like and every any all of us do. Like, everyone who's semi six any even, like, you've got 10,000 followers, Like, it's okay.

秘诀是什么？这和健美一样。有没有什么一组动作能让一切变得超级简单，像什么都没发生一样？通常如果有人想开始发布内容或尝试做任何事情，总是会问：别人都在做什么？

What's the secret? And it's the same thing with bodybuilding. What's the one set that I can do where it actually completely makes it super easy and it all just happens like nothing? And it's, like, usually, if somebody wants to start posting things or trying to, you know, do anything, it's always like, okay. What are people doing?

让我试着模仿并重现它，或者只是跟风，这其实也没问题。也许可以稍微改变一下。但最好的做法是选择你已经在做并且喜欢的事情，然后尝试记录下来。比如，现在已经到了如果你不做这件事，几乎就会错过的程度。或者，如果你有一个小生意，或者喜欢修复汽车，或者有一些随机的兴趣爱好——我真的很喜欢社交媒体的一点是，有这么多细分领域，无论你对什么感兴趣，你都可以把它做成一个内容。

Let me try to emulate that and, like, recreate it or just, like, jump on a trend, which, like, is fine. Maybe try to change it up a little bit. But it's like the best thing that you could do is pick something that you already do and you already like and just try to, like, document that. Like, if you're a, and it's to the point now, like, where if you weren't doing that, you're almost missing out. Or, like, if you have a small business or if you're into, like, restoring cars or you have some kind of random interest, like, the what I really like about social media is there's so many niches that no matter what you're into, you could make it a thing.

所以，如果我能给一个建议的话，能够在镜头前说话会有很大帮助。因为当我看到一些人时，我看到有些人在我发布任何内容之前就在健身房里发东西发了很久，他们现在还在发完全一样的内容。我看到这个人大概有七年了，他身材超级壮，但他从来没有在视频中说过话。嗯。我就觉得，这才是关键所在。

And so I guess if I could say one tip, being able to talk on camera helps a lot. Because then you actually like, when I look at people, I've seen guys post things in the gym forever before I posted anything, And they're still posting the exact same thing. And I've seen this guy for, like, seven years, and he's super big, but he's never, like, spoke on video. Mhmm. And I'm like, that's the whole point.

我想了解这个人是谁，这样我才能某种程度上回到那些经历中。是的。所以这几乎是一种情况，你已经拥有了一些非常有价值的东西，那就是你自己的个性。而试图去迎合别人已经在做的事情，基本上就是失去了那个性。所以你本来就是你自己的个体。

I wanna I wanna know who this guy is so I can kinda, like, get back to those experiences. Yeah. So it's like it's almost a situation where you already have something really valuable, and it's your own individuality. And to try to, like, you know, conform to what everyone else already does is basically to lose that. So you're already your own individual guy.

比如，没有人经历过你的生活。试着展示那部分。但我也不是那种建议的最佳来源，因为我的第一个YouTube视频和这个一样。它和最近的一个视频是一样的。所以没有什么，好吧。

Like, no one has lived your life. Try to show that part off. But I'm also not the best source of that kind of tip because my first YouTube video is the same as this one. There was it's the same as the most recent one. So there is no, like, okay.

我经历了多年的学习、数据和分析，这就是——它不像MrBeast的故事那样，我分析了什么什么的。如果有人告诉我他们要发布像我发布的内容，我觉得不会成功。

I went through years of study and data and analytics, and this is the like, it wasn't a mister beast story of I analyzed the whatever. If somebody told me they were gonna post, like, what I posted, I don't think it would work.

如果你提前计划，那听起来可能像是个失败。

If you tried to plan it in advance, it would have probably sounded like a failure.

是的。所以它只是恰好对上了。

Yeah. So it it just happened to line up.

在成长过程中谁给了你灵感，无论是内容创作方面，还是

Who was inspiration for you coming up, both content creation side, but also

是的。

Yeah.

心态方面，体格方面？

Mindsets, physique wise?

是的。所以我真的看了很多Callum von Moger的视频，大概在我16岁的时候。因为那个带我进健身房的人，我的意思是，我本来就会接触健身，但他是我高中里真正练健美的人。他参加比赛。在他高三我高二的时候，我们俩算是学校的健美代表，你知道，就是高中级别的。

Yeah. In a so I I really watched a lot of Callum von Moger, like, back when I was, you know or a 16 year old. Because the guy who got me into the gym like, mean, I was getting into it anyway, but he was the guy from my high school who actually bodybuild. He competed. Like, at at the end of when he was a senior and I was a junior, like, we were both, like, the bodybuilders of the school, you know, like a high school level.

但他让我开始关注Callum。后来我开始看所有Rich Piana的'日渐壮大'视频，然后你就能看出相似之处，就是他每天发布视频。嗯。嗯。他在车里。

But he got me into column. And then eventually, started watching all the rich piano bigger by the day videos, which then you can kinda see the similarity where it's, okay, he's posting video every day. Mhmm. Mhmm. He's in the car.

嗯。他在做真实的训练。然后我就想，我喜欢这种形式。我去健身房，锻炼，然后开车回家。

Mhmm. He's doing a real workout. And, like, I I only thought about it. Like, I like that format. I go to the gym, and I work out, and I drive back.

记录这些根本不算什么。对我的日常来说非常无缝衔接，但当时也没人这么做。在我开始发布内容之前，我看着那些普通网红心想，你们要是没有摄像机根本不会锻炼。而我在空荡荡的健身房里深蹲。

To record that is like nothing. Like, it's it's very seamless for my routine, but it, it was also just something, like, nobody was doing. Like, I was when I was coming up before posting anything, I'm looking at regular influencers. I'm like, oh, you guys won't even work out if you didn't have a camera. And I'm squatting in like a dead gym.

现在大概是凌晨两点。没有人在场——我为自己录制了这段训练。没人看到这一切发生。这就像是我心头的一个执念：这根本不重要，这里空无一人。

It's like two in the morning. No one's I I recorded the set for me. Nobody else watched it happen. And that's that was like a chip on my shoulder thing of like, it doesn't even matter. There's no one in here.

我依然全力以赴，因为我渴望成功，没有什么能改变这一点。当我开始真正发布内容时，我看到一群母校的兄弟在一个夏天突然爆红，我当时有点嫉妒。我就想，好了，现在我必须开始了。我迟早会做的，但那就像是个启动器。

I'm still getting after it because I want it, and there's nothing that's gonna change that. So when I started, like, actually posting things, once I saw a group of brothers who went to my school really blow up one summer, and I'm like, I was getting kinda, like, jealous. I'm like, okay. Now I gotta start doing it. I was gonna do it eventually, but that was, like, the starter.

催化剂。

Catalyst.

我一直在纠结这个问题：现在的我还是原来的我吗？因为我录制所有这些内容，尝试谈论并公开分享。我总会在心底思考这个问题。因为现在这些训练不再是我独自一人，现在有了观察者。就像实验是否因为有人观看而改变了？

I was like, I've always kind of hemmed about this where it's like, am I a different guy now that I'm recording all these things and trying to, like, talking about it and putting it out there? And, like, I I I would just always think about that in, like, the back of my mind. Because now these workouts are not just me alone. Now there's an observer. So it's like, is the experiment altered because now people are watching it?

我认为并没有。经过这么长时间，我觉得自己依然如故——如果有什么变化，那就是多了一点责任因素。因为如果我不够投入，我知道有人在看，所以可能会更加努力。因此我认为这并没有带走太多本质。

And I don't think it is. Like, after all this time, I think I'm still if anything, it's a little bit of an accountability factor. Because if I didn't think you know, maybe I wasn't totally into it. I know somebody's watching, so I might go a little extra hard. So I I think it hasn't taken away too much.

但也许确实有一点影响。

But maybe I did a little bit.

是的。但如果你因此分心，就像我一直认为的：训练本身应该优先于记录训练。

Yeah. But but if you get distracted by it, it's like the the the workout should come before the recording of the workout, I've always thought.

现在有数百万人在观看，你是否觉得很难保持真实性？

Have you found it hard to hold on to authenticity now that millions of people are watching?

嗯，现在如果我制作一个不真实的视频，那会很奇怪。因为我现在经常参加各种活动，能和每个人交流。有时候很难区分某人的社交媒体形象和他们真实的人类个性。因为我们有时会把视频看作是在主持节目，而电视主持人在镜头外说话的方式并不一样

Well, now it it'd be if I made a video that was inauthentic, it'd be strange. Like, I'll, because I'll record because now I'm kinda getting around doing all these events. I get to talk to everybody. And sometimes it's hard to actually separate someone's social media persona versus their real, like, human personality. Because sometimes we look at a video as, like, you're kind of hosting a show, and a TV host does not talk offset the same

说话方式 欢迎回到

way talks Welcome back to the

片场。就像，好吧，我们今天要拍个国际象棋约会。而我只是在做一个YouTube开场，还有各种音效。但那根本不是我做的事

on set. Like, it was like, alright. We're gonna hit a chess date today. And I'm just doing, a YouTube intro, and there's, like, sounds. Like like, that's just not what I do.

而且对我来说，我觉得那样做很傻。所以对我来说，这是一种很酷的心态，我甚至不会去想什么提高内容参与度、扩大影响力之类的事情，因为这一切都太单一维度了。它会自然分支扩展

And I I for me, think that'd be silly anyway. So it's I think it's, for me, kind of a cool mentality where I'm not exactly even thinking like, okay. I wanna improve my content engagement. I'm trying to improve my reach or, like, any anything like that because I almost boil it all because it's so one dimensional. Like, it it branches out.

我谈论所有事情，但我希望它特别关注健身。所以对我来说，这就像一个动机的分支点，在我心里，我觉得我的训练越好，不仅对我更好因为我希望它们出色，而且这种效果会渗透出来，提升其他一切，因为所有东西都源于训练本身

I talk about everything, but it's like, I want it to be about the gym specifically. So for me, it's like this kind of branching off point of motivation where in my mind, I feel the better than all my workouts are. Not only is that better for me because I want them to be good, but it will just bleed and, like, bleed out and raise everything else up because it's all stemming from the working out anyway.

网上有四个小时你车内谈话的合集供人入睡。你预料到自己最终会成为一个ASMR频道吗？但是

There's four hour compilations of your car talks to go to sleep to. Did you anticipate that you'd become an ASMR channel eventually? But

我，我其实之前听说过。高中时从来没有过。但大学时，大概是我大二的时候，我做过几次演讲。有一次，我的一门课程或课外学分是关于黑帮电影史的。所以它是从

I, I actually heard that before. Never in high school. But when I was in college, my it was, like, my second year, I gave a couple presentations. Like, one time I one of my curricular or extracurricular credits was mafia cinema history. So it was following

那很冷门。

That's niche.

但没错。它是从，就像，第一部那种无声电影叫什么来着？

But yeah. It was following, like, from the first what what do you call a soundless movie?

哦，好的。是的。

Oh, okay. Yeah.

是的。是的。在真实的视频帧之间，他们只是用黑屏配上所说的文字。就像，从那里开始的。

Yeah. Yeah. Where in between frames of, like, actual video, they just had black black screen with the words that got said. Like, it started from there.

那真有趣，用这种方式拍电影真有意思。

Then funny what a funny way to to put a movie together.

但就像那是他们当时仅有的一切。他们不能像我们现在这样通过拍手来同步音频。但它一直发展，经历了《教父》等等所有电影。我还必须制作一个小组视频，里面是所有这些电影的片段，有人需要叠加他们的声音并一起编辑。我当时还在发一些小视频，就像健身类的TikTok。

But it's like that's all you had. They can they can time sync audio with a clap like we can now. But then it went up, like, all the way through godfather and everything else. And I had to make a group video where it was clips from all these movies, and someone had to overlay their voice and edit it altogether. And I was posting, like, little TikToks at the time, like fitness TikToks.

所以我差点自愿去做编辑配音，这样我就能得到一点经验，那严格来说是我编辑的第一个视频。后来人们听到后告诉我，他们说，老兄，你应该去做有声书之类的。但我自己没听出来，我不喜欢听自己的声音，因为那是我的声音。但后来我在另一门课上做了不同的演讲，坐在我旁边的两个人说了同样的话。

So I almost volunteered for the editing voice over so I could get a little like, that was the first video that I ever edited it technically. And people told me after when they heard it, they said, dude, you should do, like, an audiobook or something. And I didn't hear it. I did not like, I couldn't hear it because it's my own voice. But then I gave a different presentation in a different class, and the two guys sitting next to me said the same thing.

所以我不知道这些年发生了什么变化，或者也许我长大了一点，可以更直言不讳，不会因为和别人说话就缩手缩脚、那么紧张。但这也是其中一部分，当我想到你怎么能，比如，把所有的成功都写成书，我觉得实际上发布很多视频很重要，意思是我说的内容要有意义，真正努力去做，并且真心支持它。这是我可以告诉任何人去做的。然后我总是说其中有X因素，因为很多都是无法预测但恰好结果很好的事情。

So I don't know what what changed over the course of those years or if, like, maybe I got a little older and I could be more outspoken and, like, not shrink down and be so nervous because I'm, like, talking to someone. But that's part of it where when I think of how you could, like, do a like, do the books on what all the just success came from, it's like I think posting a lot of videos actually, like, meaning what I'm talking about and really working out and, like, being behind it. Like, that that's something I could tell anybody to do. And then I always say that the x factor was involved because a lot of it was things that just could not be predicted but happened to work out really well.

如果Samsoo出一个睡眠故事应用，比如在Audible上发布，我会订阅的。

I would subscribe to a Samsoo, like, sleep stories app if that goes out on Audible.

你知道吗？我对做有声书之类的事情很好奇。

You get know? I get curious about doing, like, just audiobooks.

我我觉得那会很有趣。会很棒。比如，你只是在描述一个下午在温柔的草地上散步之类的。

I I because that'd fun. It'd great. Like, you you're just describing a an afternoon walk through a a gentle meadow or something.

是的。然后我可能就能读到那些书了，因为我会在读它，我会更...你不会说更有文化，但你会更...

Yeah. And then I'd probably I'd get to read the books because I'd be I'd be reading it, and I'd be a little more well, you wouldn't say literate, but you'd be a little more just

听着，老兄。如果这个健美的事情和所有Gymshark的东西，你知道，如果进展不顺利，我真的认为有机会。比如，和Calm或Headspace之类的合作，睡眠故事，会很好的。所以，就像我们刚才说的，这种在数百万人观看下的真实性，它确实是。总有一种表演性，你总是被迫去做，因为...

I could look, dude. If the if this bodybuilding thing and all this Gymshark stuff, you know, if that doesn't go well, I I genuinely think that there's a an opportunity. You know, a nice collaboration with Karma Headspace or something like that, sleep stories, it'd be good. So, like, you know, just lingering on what we said there, this authenticity with millions watching, and it is. There's a there's a degree of performativeness that you want to you're always compelled to do because

是的。某种程度上，我觉得视频里的山姆和与朋友或团队交谈时的山姆有点不同。但我不认为这太成问题，因为根据你与谁在一起，你自然会表现得不同。对我来说，当我独自锻炼、只有摄像机时——我本来想找个摄像师，因为大家都这么做。嗯。

Yeah. Like, in a way, I think there's kind of, like, a Sam on video, and then there's, like, a Sam when I'm talking with my buddies or a group. But I almost don't think it's too much of a, like, thing because you will naturally act differently based on who you're with. And for me, when I'm working out alone and I've got just the camera, like, I thought I'd get a camera guy because that's what everyone does. Mhmm.

但对我来说，那种实际的来回互动非常自然。这些都是我自然而然想到的。尽管我可能稍微没那么精力充沛，因为如果你在团队聚会或类似场合，你会更活跃一些。但当只有我自己的时候，我不觉得这有什么问题——即使它和我典型的互动方式有点不同，就像现在这样，这可能不完全是我在现实世界中的说话方式，但这并不是故意的。

But it's so natural for me to have that, like, actual back and forth. It's all just things that I get to think of. Like, even though I'm probably a little less energetic because, if if you're in a group hanging out and whoever, like, you're gonna be a little more jumpy. But when it's just me, like, I don't think that's like, even though it's a little different than my typical back and forth like, even now, this probably wouldn't be exactly how I talk, like, in the world, but it's not intentional in

某种程度上，目标是尽量缩小这两个人之间的距离。是的，对吧？让它们尽可能接近。

a way. The goal is to try and reduce the distance between those two people. Yeah. Right? Get them as close as possible.

天哪。就像你会为高档餐厅打扮一样。那并不意味着你总是盛装打扮。嗯。但你是——

Fuck me. It's like you'll dress up for a fancy restaurant. That doesn't mean you always dress up. Mhmm. But you're

表现得好像穿西装的你 somehow 就大不相同了。是的。但你知道，我认为即使是Instagram上只有几百个粉丝的最低关注度的人，如果你把相机转向自己并按下按钮——嗯，就像，哦，该死，我需要做点什么——整容手术的数量出现了统计上的增长。

acting mean that you in a suit is somehow So much. Yeah. But, you know, I I think even the lowest followed person with a a couple of 100 followers on their Instagram, if you turn the camera around on yourself and you press the button Mhmm. Like, oh, fuck. I need to do there was a a statistical increase in cosmetic surgery.

我觉得它被称为“Zoom脸”——嗯，在COVID之后，因为人们太多地在相机上看到自己，以至于他们开始注意到自己的缺陷。是的，你知道，那只是你与老板、助理或团队等进行实时通话的时候。所以，天哪。

I think it was called Zoom face Mhmm. After COVID because people were seeing themselves on camera so much that they were observing their own flaws. And Yeah. You know, that's you just on a live call with your boss or either your assistant or your team or whatever. So holy shit.

就像，如果人们在COVID期间的视频通话中就有这种感觉，想象一下当你开始发帖或上传Instagram故事时会是什么样子。

Like, if that's how people are feeling just with video calls on COVID, imagine what it's like when you start posting or you put an Instagram story up.

是的，我从来没听说过那件事。但有一点是，因为身体就像，即使是进入健美领域以及随之而来的一切，比如带备餐去学校或者至少随便什么，这仍然有点偏离常规。现在变得超级正常了，因为每个人都在健身房里。嗯。我觉得这很棒。

Yeah. I never I never heard about that. But that that's one thing where because the body like, even getting into bodybuilding and everything that comes along with it and, like, bringing, like, a prepped meal to school or just at least whatever, it's still a little, like, off the beaten path. It's getting super normal now because everybody's in the in the gym Mhmm. Which I think is perfect.

因为现在健身房会，你知道，虽然不是大幅但逐渐增值，因为需求更大了。嗯。所以就像人越多越热闹。但仅仅知道这一点，就像如果你在社交媒体上发帖，你就是在自找麻烦。这就是它的本质。

Because now gyms are gonna, you know, subs not substantially, but gradually increase in value because there's just more of a demand. Mhmm. So it's like the more the merrier. But just from knowing that it's kind of a thing where like, if you post on social media, you're asking to hit it on. It's just the nature of it.

但健美也是一种保证，因为你可以利用它，比如也许有人对自己的外表感到不安全，他们会去攻击他们喜欢的人，或者随便什么。这只是其中的一部分。但已经知道这一点，比如，进入这个领域并看到有人说任何话，就像如果你毫不歉意地喜欢某样东西，比如我看到你在吃一碗冰淇淋，然后我说，我不敢相信你在吃香草味的。那是最差的口味。你真是个彻底的失败者。

But bodybuilding is, like, also a guarantee because it's it's you could play into it like maybe someone's insecure about how they look, and they're gonna go after someone who they like, what whatever. It's just part of it. But already knowing that, like, to, you know, get into it and see anyone say anything, it's like it's if you're unapologetically into something like, I saw you eating a bowl ice cream and I said, I can't believe you're eating vanilla. That's the worst flavor. You're a total loser.

但你真的喜欢它。你不会因此感到被冒犯。你会觉得我甚至试图为此批评你很奇怪，因为你真的喜欢它。所以这就是一种技能，能够把自己展现出来，并且只接受批评本身。比如，如果有人在我的视频下发帖或评论，这更像是当我戴上导演制片人的帽子时，他们说这个视频的麦克风或音频很糟糕。

But you really liked it. You you wouldn't be offended by that. You'd think I'm weird for even trying to criticize you for it because you really are into it. So that's that's something where it's it's its own skill to be able to put yourself out there and only take criticism for what it is. Like, if someone posted, or made a comment on my video, and this is more like when I put my director producer hat on, and they say this video's mic or this video's audio sucked.

删除你的频道。我会把它当作好吧。我可能需要修复我的音频。我不需要把仇恨和批评混为一谈。因为我可以接受，我想要的是批评。

Delete your channel. I'm gonna take that as alright. My I might need to fix my audio. I don't need to take the hate with a critique. Because I can take I want the critique.

那很好。谢谢你的反馈。

That's the good Thank you for your feedback.

是的。就像，你应该能够把它从说话的方式中分离出来。

Yeah. Like, you can you you should be able to separate that from the the context of how it's said.

在处理批评、自我价值这类问题上你学到了什么？因为如果最初的计划是，嘿，如果有人看这个会很酷，但随后却面临大量审视，而且你还年轻，从稍微不同的角度处理这件事，肯定会招来批评。是的，你是如何学会应对这些的？

What have you learned about dealing with criticism and and self worth and stuff like that? Because if the plan was, hey. It'd be cool if some people watch this, and then there's an awful lot of scrutiny, and you're young and are approaching this from a little bit of a different angle, it's gonna invite in criticism. Yeah. How how have you learned to deal with that?

并不是说我一开始完全没有考虑过这个问题。因为当你刚开始发布内容时，比如说获得了几千粉丝，这需要一点时间。但回想起来，这实际上是一个里程碑，说明你的视频被展示给了更多人。因为如果总是那10个人在评论区喜欢每个视频，那意味着你的内容只被展示给了他们。

It's not like I totally did not even think about it in the beginning. Because when you first start getting like, let's say you're posting something, you get, like, a few thousand followers. It's you know, it it takes a second. But if you look back on it, it's really a milestone that your videos are being shown to more people. Because if the same 10 people love every video in the comments, that means your stuff's only getting shown to them.

并没有被展示给其他人。所以一旦有人开始给你，比如，就是普通的仇恨言论，那意味着他们是第一次看到你的内容。所以这实际上意味着你的东西正在走出一个小规模的泡沫，开始扩大影响。但我不确定。对于那些正在为此挣扎的人，我会说，记住这个人只是划走了。

It's not getting shown to anyone else. So once people start giving you, like, know, just saying regular just hate, that means that they're someone who got shown your stuff for the first time. So it actually means your things are moving out of, like, a small little scale bubble and scaling. But it's I don't know. For someone who's struggling with it, I'd say, like, remember this guy just scrolled away.

他甚至不记得自己说过什么。这是一种奇怪的现象，你知道，手机是一种与现实生活完全不同的沟通设备。所以也许应该以人们当面对你说的为准，只是...我不...对某些人来说，克服这个肯定更难。

He did not he doesn't even remember saying it. It's it's just a weird thing where, you know, your phone is a totally different communicative device than real life. So maybe judge what people actually say to you in person and just I don't For some people, it's much harder to get over, I'm sure.

你说得很好，别人随口说的评论是轻率被动的。但对你来说，可能会萦绕不去。我的意思是，我知道对我来说，在我做这个节目的上千期节目中，嗯，确实有些评论让我晚上睡觉时还在想，真他妈该死。

It's a good point that that comment someone just made is flippant passive. Whereas for you, that might linger I mean, I I know for me, you know, over the thousand episodes I've done this show Mhmm. There's certainly some comments where I've gone to bed at night, and I'm like, fuck's sake.

想想看。

Think about it.

就像，那就是你头碰到枕头时会想的事情。但你只记得那些侮辱，却忘记了赞美。这个世界就是这样运作的。

Like, that's the that's the thing that you're gonna think about as your head hits the pillow. But you just remember the insults and forget the compliments. That's kind of the way that the world works.

而且，甚至试着想象一下，这是我很喜欢做的一件事——想象一个场景，不是辩论，而是两种处理方式的不同角度。比如，我是想阅读每一条负面评论并往心里去，只关注那些，还是想真正看清系统的实际情况？实际上，真实的评论总是多得多。那么为什么负面评论的影响这么大？十个好评甚至能抵过一个差评吗？

And it's a and even just try to like, this is one thing I really like is trying to imagine anything where it's not a debate, but just, like, two sides of an approach. Like, okay. Do I want to read every hate comment and take it personally and, like, really only look at those, Or do I wanna, like, look at the system as it really is? There's, like, always way more real comments. So why does the why does the negative one get so much impact and 10 other like, how many good comments even outweigh one bad one?

嗯。如果那条评论真的击中你的弱点，可能再多好评也没用，就这样结束了。是的。所以我觉得这几乎就像，它本不该如此，但事实就是这样。就像，它本不该发生。

Mhmm. And if that one actually, like, hit you in a weak spot, there could be no number, and that could just be it. Yep. So I think that's where it's it's almost like, it it shouldn't be, but it is. Like, it it it shouldn't happen.

人们不应该刻薄，但他们就是会这样。这就是现实。所以这实际上是你自己的责任，试着不受影响，因为你在自己的脑海里受苦。嗯。因为是你选择让它进入并感到沮丧。

People shouldn't be mean, but they are gonna be. That's just how it is. So that's where it's actually your responsibility to try to be impervious to it because you're kind of suffering in your own mind. Mhmm. Because it it was your choice to let it in and get upset.

因为如果你能稍微——我不想说心理上更坚强，但有点像，如果你能采取更斯多葛式的方式，那么你一开始就不会为此感到沮丧。

Because if you were a little kind of like I don't wanna say mentally tougher, but kind of, if you could take a little more stoic approach like that, then you wouldn't even get upset about it in the first place.

对你来说，那种斯多葛式的方式是什么样的？

What does that stoic approach look like to you?

它只是，你知道，如果某件事实际上不需要大惊小怪，就不要小题大做。因为我经常思考这个。比如，我的整个理念或我喜欢想的一点是，好吧，今天整体算是个好日子吗？它不必特别好，但平均来说，我是否感觉还不错，没有太为事情压力大？

It's just not a, you know, not making a fuss about something if it doesn't actually require that. Because I I think about that a lot. Like, my my whole thing is or one thing I like to think is, like, okay. Was today a good day, like, net? And it doesn't have to be crazy good, but, like, on average, was I feeling, like, pretty good, not too stressed out about things?

如果我有一个待办清单，我并不是在采取适当的步骤去完成它。而是我没有让任何事情拖延太久。如果我让自己沮丧，或者如果我累了，带着负面的起点进入某些情境，那么你已经可以对任何事情感到不满。哦，这个周末太忙了。哦，糟透了。

If I have a to do list, it's not like like I'm taking the proper steps to actually complete it. Like, it's I'm not letting anything linger too much. And if I'm making myself upset or, like, if I'm tired and I'm going into situations with a negative starting point, well, then you're already you can be upset about anything. Oh, this weekend was so busy. Oh, it sucked.

哦，我太累了。就像，你可以立刻做到那样，感觉就像什么都没发生，因为这是一种奇怪的自嘲，就像，轰的一下。事情太难了，而且这这——我的意思是，我我理解这种逻辑，因为它是一种舒适的，像是，退避。一切都那么艰难。一切都糟透了。

Oh, I'm so tired. Like, you you can instantly do that and it's like nothing because it's this weird self depreciation, like, boomy. Things are so hard, and it's it's a I mean, I I get the logic because it's it's a comfortable, like, retreat. Everything is so hard. Everything sucks.

我对此无能为力。事情就是这样。所以没有什么办法，这这是一种放手不管的态度，当，你知道，那已经是六年前的事了。就像，你到了一个必须负责的阶段。比如，我你知道，我还有些东西在我父母家里，我打算去取回来之类的。

I can do nothing about it. It's just how it is. So there's nothing like, it's a it's a taking your hands off the wheel of things when, you know, that's six years old. Like, this is you reach a point where you're you're responsible. Like, I you know, I've still got some some stuff in my parents' house I'm gonna go pick up and things.

但到了现在这个阶段，像23岁的山姆，我完全要为自己的所有事情负责，所以我必须真正掌控它。如果我因为，比如，最愚蠢的事情让自己难过，那么我就是在无缘无故地给自己压力。

But at at this point now, like 23 year old Sam, I'm completely responsible for all my own stuff, so I gotta actually take a hold of it. And if I make myself upset about, like, the stupidest things, well, then I'm stressing myself out for no reason.

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Before we continue, this might be the most refreshing flavor that Element has ever made. It takes the classic taste of lemonade, makes it functional, giving your body back the sodium, potassium, and magnesium that it loses when you sweat. No sugar, no junk, just the stuff that works. I've been drinking Element for over three years now, and it genuinely feels different when I take it versus when I don't. And they back it with the best policy, you see that, that I've ever seen.

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No questions asked refund. No time limit. You don't even need to return the box. That's how confident they are that you love it. Plus, they offer free shipping in The US.

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And right now, you can get a free sample pack of all of their favorite flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom. I'm like Neo in the matrix, dude. You're not gonna win. That's drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.

它

It

试图处理你不认识的人的批评是件奇怪的事。至少根据我的经验，你能尝试逆向分析的次数有限。嗯，你不会接受那些你不会向其寻求建议的人的批评。不要接受

is a a strange thing to try and deal with the criticisms of people that you don't know. At least in my experience, the amount of times that you can try and reverse engineer. Well, would you don't take criticism from someone you wouldn't take advice from. Don't accept

说得很好。

That's a good one.

是的。这这这很好。所有这些都说得通。

Yeah. It it's it's nice. All of this stuff makes sense.

我同意。我们我们是在假设情况下说的。是的。当你身处其中时，

I agree. We're we're saying it in a hypothetical. Yeah. When you're in it,

这很有用。今天晚些时候我要和几个年轻的哲学爱好者聊天。嗯。他们研究逻辑学。对吧？

it's much good. I got this conversation later on today with a couple of young philosopher bros. Mhmm. And they do logic. Right?

所以这是一种非常纯粹、理性的看待情况的方式。嗯。说实话，我对逻辑学的研究越多，就越觉得一旦情绪介入，它就完全崩溃了。你会想，哦，这听起来很棒，但你不是一个方程式。是的。

So it's a very sterile, rational way to sort of look at situations. Mhmm. Honestly, the more that I've done a little bit of research into logic, the more it feels like it just completely fucking falls apart the second an emotion comes in. You're like, oh, this sounded so great, but you're not an equation. Yeah.

是的。不是一个纯粹的实验室。

Yeah. Not a sterile laboratory.

是的。这这，就像，纸上谈兵听起来很有趣，因为你可以读到这个然后想，天啊。如果我开始这样想，我就再也不会难过了。嗯。但问题是，你又不是他妈的机器人。

Yeah. It's it's, like, it's something that's fun on paper because you could you could read that and think, oh my god. If I start thinking that this way, I'll never be upset again. Mhmm. And it's like, you're not a freaking robot.

我经常提到这一点，就像，仅仅因为你会用Excel，并不意味着你不需要像我们狩猎采集时代那样跑来跑去。我们并没有那么不同。好吧。就像，我们能做完全不同的事情，但你的基因还在那里。你还是得跑来跑去，动起来。

I bring this up a ton where I'm like, just because you can use Excel doesn't mean you don't have to run around like we used to do when we were hunter gatherer. We're not that much different. Okay. Like, we can do way different stuff, but you're still, like, genetically right there. You gotta run around and freaking move.

但是，是的，同样的事情。你不能像，那种想法几乎是害怕自己的情绪，你甚至不想深入其中，只是像硬汉一样摆脱它，就像，我不在乎。嗯。也许这只是某种额外的男性化

But, yeah, same thing. You can't like, the idea to kind of like, almost be afraid of your own emotions where you don't wanna even get into and just, like, thug your way out of it where it's like, I don't care. Mhmm. Maybe it's just like any kind of extra masculine

你听说过ACT，接纳与承诺疗法吗？嗯-嗯。它和CBT并没有太大不同。我想它算是CBT的旁支吧。但在很多方面，CBT是教你思维模式，你的大脑如何工作，这样你就能更好地看到并应对挑战。

Have you heard of ACT, acceptance and commitment therapy? Mm-mm. It's simp not too dissimilar to CBT. It's kind of CBT adjacent, I suppose. But in in many ways, CBT is teaching you the thinking patterns, the way that your brain works so that you can better see and move through challenges.

接纳与承诺疗法，很多时候是关于这件事正在发生，你某种程度上允许它流过你。所以CBT-I（针对失眠的认知行为疗法）非常流行，ACT-I（针对失眠的接纳与承诺疗法）也相当流行。但方法非常不同。所以针对失眠的接纳与承诺疗法很多时候只是，好吧，我醒了。如果我能接受自己醒着，会是什么样子？

Acceptance and commitment therapy, a lot of that is about this thing is happening, and you sort of allow it to move through you. So it's CBT I for insomnia is very popular, and ACT I for insomnia is also pretty popular. But the approaches are very different. So acceptance and commitment therapy for insomnia a lot of the time is just, okay, I'm awake. What would it be like if I was okay with being awake?

不像CBT，很多时候感觉你你在和它战斗。哦，那是灾难化思维。那是锚定偏见。那是你，你知道？嗯。

Not CBT, which a lot of the time feels like you're you're in battle with it. Oh, that's catastrophic thinking. That's anchoring bias. That's you you know? Mhmm.

至少根据我的经验，用ACT应对生活中的挑战，你之前说过，我是否对这一天感觉大致还不错？我是不是压力不大？那么，如果我能接受这个，会是什么样子？如果我只是我的膝盖，我我膝盖有点伤什么的。你知道？

And at least in my experience, using ACT for challenges that you've got in your life, you said before, do I feel sort of generally pretty good about the day? Am I not too stressed? So what would it be like if I was just okay with this? What would it be like if I was just my knee my I've got a little bit of a knee injury or something. You know?

我可以与之对抗，也可以逆向分析它。你知道，这是我需要克服的一个挑战。这才是真正的工作开始的地方。你继续前进，我的膝盖疼。我在想我是否对膝盖疼痛感到无所谓。

I can fight against it, or I can reverse engineer it. You know, this is a challenge that I need to get through. This is where the real work begins. You go, my knee hurts. I wonder if I was okay with my knee hurting.

是的。仍然需要去做这件事。但至少对我来说，也许不同生理状况的人感受不同，对我来说，我就是喜欢那种轻松调节的方式。对我来说，这这这效果相当不错。

Yeah. Still need to go and do the thing. But at least for me, and maybe it's different for different physiologies, for me, I just like that sort of ease regulation thing. For me, that's that that that works quite well.

但这就是当我谈到把事情推向两个极端时的逻辑。那么，你会怎么做？就像，把所有发生在你身上的负面事情都接受，说这就是现实。这样也可以。嗯。

But then that's where like, when I talk about the logic of taking things to, like, two extremes. Well, what do you do? Like, just take everything negative that ever happens to you and say, this is just how it is. That's okay. Mhmm.

就像，这完全是遗忘。

Like, that's completely forgetting.

我不需要解决它。我可以任由它恶化变得更糟。

I don't need to fix it. I can just let it fester and get worse.

就像，你是要降低标准去适应你正在处理的问题，还是要提高标准解决这些问题，让自己处于更好的境地？

Like, it's it's are you gonna lower your standards to the problems that you're dealing with, or are you gonna raise your standards and fix those problems and be in a better position?

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以你不能解决所有问题，但有些事——这就是折中之道所在。你能解决的事，就应该去解决。嗯。而那些你无法解决的事，就不该去担心。

So you can't fix everything, but some of the things that it's that's where the middle ground comes in. The things that you could fix, you should fix. Mhmm. And the things that you can't, you shouldn't worry.

嗯，这就是斯多葛学派的分叉理论。对吧？那个控制二分法。嗯。所以你刚才提到在健身房训练，凌晨两点，算是把事情搞定。

Well, that's the stoic fork. Right? That dichotomy of control thing. Mhmm. So you mentioned there about training at the gym, two in the morning, kind of getting it done.

这是我自己在坚持。现在维持简单的生活方式有多难？因为我无法想象你附近的健身房训练还能像以前那样宁静。

This is me on my own. How difficult has it been to maintain a simple lifestyle now? Because I can't imagine that training in the gyms near you is quite as peaceful as it used to be.

可能有一点，但实际上，那里已经是所有地方中最好的了。除了

Maybe a little, but it's actually, it's the best there out of anywhere. Apart from

人们已经见过你无数次了。

People have seen you a million times.

我从开始健身就在这家健身房。所以我看到的所有人都是那些老面孔，工作令人惊叹。

I've been at this gym since I started working out. So I see all the all the same people work amazed.

哦，这是

Oh, it's

又来了。要说的话，他们可能在想，哦，他在我的机器上。就像，天啊。山姆在史密斯上。我想

all again. If anything, they're probably like, oh, he's on my machine. Like, oh my god. Sam's on the Smith. I wanted to

他会在那里待三十分钟，混蛋。

He's gonna be there for thirty minutes, motherfucker.

他这是一个而且这就像是一种曝光的事情，你知道，就像，仅仅是因为在那里待了那么久。但当我当我拜访一些地方时，那里会有点更疯狂。或者，就像，甚至这是一种经典的老套路，天啊，我的Instagram刚刚爆了。我要去洛杉矶。我走了。

He's it's a and it's and it's just like an exposure thing, you know, like, just from being there so much. But when I when I get to visit places, that's where it's a little crazier. Or, like, even it's kind of a classic trope of, holy, my Instagram just blew up. I'm going to LA. I'm out of here.

而且，你有点把自己框住了，因为现在你在做其他人做的事。对我来说，我一直觉得，健身房在任何地方都会有同样的重量。社交媒体的整个意义在于你可以在任何地方做。我不需要仅仅因为别人都那样做就彻底改变我的生活和所有我认识的人。所以，在家里，这非常正常。

And it's, you're kinda boxing yourself in because now you're doing what everyone else does. For me, I've been like, the gym is gonna have the same weights anywhere. The whole point of social media is you can do it from anywhere. I I don't need to uproot my whole life and everyone that I know just because that's what other people do. So it's, at home, it's, like, very normal.

但这绝对不同。但尽管它如此不同，就像，我经常听到这个。就像，这有多疯狂？而且，客观地说，这完全疯了。就像，我仍然可以看到从以前到现在。

But it's it's definitely different. But as different as it is, like, I I got this a lot. It's like, how crazy is this? And, like, objectively, it's totally crazy. Like, I can still see that from before to now.

但你确实会有点接触到它，因为它从来不是突然发生的。就像，一开始，就像，克罗格的一个家伙说，哇。老兄，我早先在手机上看到你了。那是一个只有大约2000次观看的视频。就像，它之所以发生，只是因为他是那个开始。

But you do get a little bit exposed to it just from it never just happened. Like, first, it was, like, one guy at a Kroger said, woah. Dude, I saw you on my phone earlier. And it was a video that had, like, 2,000 views. Like, it just happened because he was a that was the start.

然后，就像，下一周，又有另一个人。然后它，就像，所有变化，就像，随着时间的推移增加了0.1%。所以没有那个青蛙跳出沸水的时刻，因为温度只是超级缓慢地上升。但这绝对疯狂，它竟然都规模这么大了。但在家里，这相当正常。

And then, like, the next week, there's another guy. And then it, like, all varied, like, point 1% increases over time. So there was no moment where the frog jumped out of the boiling water because it just raised temperature super slowly. But it's it's definitely crazy how big it's all kinda scaled. But at home, it's it's pretty normal.

当更多选择出现时，你如何保持专注不分心？

How do you not get distracted as more options come onto the table?

我觉得，我仍然有点那种——我不想说是偏见，但几乎是固执地认为，我知道自己在做什么。我知道我想做什么。我知道我不想和谁扯上关系，因为社交媒体上听起来每个人都像是世上最好的人。就像，任何事情都是这样。所以我看到一些人会说，我喜欢这家伙。

I think, I've still got a little bit of that kind of I don't wanna say hater preconception, but almost like hardheadedness of, like, I know what I'm doing. I know what I wanna do. I know who I wouldn't wanna, like, get involved with because it it sound like everyone on social media is always the nicest person ever. Like, the it's it's like anything. So I can see guys where I would say, I like this guy.

这家伙很酷。我们之前聊过。一起做点什么吧。但即使如此，我在展会上也总是想到这个。比如参加展会，大家刚离开Lyft伦敦，然后就全力以赴了。

This guy's cool. We have talked before. Let's do something. But even, and I always think about this at the expos. Like, to see an expo, everyone just left this Lyft London, and they are getting after it.

今年是他们的年份。我看到了Sawyer Claddis、David Laid，Phil Heath也在那里。这会很精彩。但一周后，那种动力就会逐渐消退，因为这只是作秀的部分。当下看起来非常炫目。

This year is their year. I saw I saw Sawyer Claddis, David Laid, Phil Heath was there. This is gonna be sweet. In a week, that that motivation is gonna it's gonna dwindle because this is, this is, like, the just for show part. And in the moment, it's super flashy.

但是，你知道，甚至我和一些健身卡车团队的人一起训练，比如Jack Eagles和Marcus，真的很有趣，因为我能和那些水平更高的人一起生活。比如Jack Eagles完全是个猛兽，但这又被我自己刚完成三个月的训练所抵消。嗯。那些训练只是为了进步。所以这就像乐趣和工作的比例，你知道，就像篮球运动员总是有很多练习才上场表演。你会坐着看科比·布莱恩特罚球多久？

But, you know, e even the workouts I got to do with some of the gym truck guys, like Jack Eagles and Marcus, and, like, it's really fun because I get to live with guys who are kind of higher level advanced. Like, Jack Eagles is a total beast, but that's, you know, countered by the three months of workouts I just did on my own Mhmm. Which were only for the purpose of, like, progress. So it's, it's like there's a ratio of, like, fun to work where, like, you know, how many there would be a million hours of I I always reference the basketball players because they're such a good example of a lot of practice before performance. And it's like, how long would you sit and watch, like, a Kobe Bryant shoot free throws?

你会看勒布朗做运球训练多久？你不会。但这就是那种，我看到很多引用说，那些是无荣耀的战斗，当获胜时累积成无缝的胜利。但你不能忘记所有那些之前发生的事。但当只看到最终结果时，很容易忘记。

Like, how long would you watch LeBron do dribbling drills? You wouldn't. But that's the kind of, I see a lot of quotes where it's like, those are the gloryless gloryless battles, which when won add up to a seamless victory. But it's it's like you can't forget that all happened before. But it's easy to when all you see is that end result.

就像当我们都穿着匹配的运动服，组成一个该死的Gymshark团队时。嗯。别忘了每个人现在都要回到他们所属的地方。不是所属，而是回到他们来的地方。

Like, when we're all in matching tracksuits for a freaking Gymshark team. Mhmm. Don't forget everybody is now going back to where they belong. Not belong, but back to where they're from

做那些无聊的事情。

To do the boring stuff.

大家都要回去继续工作。一切都要恢复正常了。

All gonna get back to back to work. They're all going back to normal.

老兄，节目也是一样的。这很有趣，也很酷。

Dude, it's the same with the show. It's this is fun, and it's cool.

但那不是

But That's not

这个周末，你...我周四到的。周五我们所有人都去了运动员场馆活动。是的，周五下午我没能参加运动员训练，因为我得回去准备和阅读。然后我必须在周六离开前完成，周六一早就离开了。

Over this weekend, you You've been I I landed on Thursday. I had the athlete venue thing on Friday with all of us going. Yep. I didn't get to do the athlete workout on the Friday afternoon because I had to go back and prep and read. And then I had to do it before we left on Saturday, and then left early on Saturday.

然后周日整个上午都在做，昨晚也因为同样的事情没能去产品展示会。所以，是的，你说得对。95%、98%的时间都是这些事情，就是我盯着笔记本电脑，或者拿着Kindle，或者看书，或者看笔记，或者边走边想'嗯...我到底该怎么想那件事？那个点子是什么？'

And then on Sunday, did it all morning, and then didn't get to go to the product showcase last night for the same thing. So, yeah, you're right. It's 95%, 98% of it is all of this stuff, which is me looking at a laptop or me with a Kindle or me with a book or me with notes or me walking and going Mhmm. The fuck do I think about that thing? Like, what's the idea?

那个概念叫什么名字？那个什么来着？然后，好吧，我终于可以回来享受一些乐趣了。但詹姆斯·克利尔的《原子习惯》里有个很酷的故事。嗯。

What's the name for that concept? What's the whatever? And then, okay, I get to come back and and finally have some fun. But there's a a cool story from Atomic Habits by James Clear. Mhmm.

我想那可能是中国举重队的主教练，或者是本·伯杰隆的《追求卓越》中的内容，两者之一。嗯。他们采访了中国举重队的主教练，问道：精英运动员和世界冠军之间的区别是什么？

And I think it was the lead coach of maybe the Chinese weightlifting team, or maybe this is Ben Bergeron's chasing excellence. It's one of the two. Mhmm. And they spoke to the lead coach of the Chinese weightlifting team. They said, what's the difference between the guys who are elite and the guys that are world champions?

他说，世界冠军是那些愿意做最枯燥的工作且抱怨最少的人。嗯。我真的很喜欢这个观点，尤其是当事情越来越成功时——这在网上是个非常不受欢迎的话题，因为大家都想听从零到一的故事，而不是从五十到五十五、八十到八十五或九十五到九十六。他们不想听顶尖阶段的事情，因为这听起来更排外，对吧？

And he said it's the world champions that are prepared to do the most boring work with the least amount of complaining. Mhmm. And I just really like that idea because especially as things become more successful, and this is like a a really unpopular talking point on the Internet because everybody wants to hear the zero to one, not the 50 to 55 or 80 to 85 or 95 to 96. They don't wanna hear about the top end stuff because it doesn't sound it sounds more exclusionary. Right?

因为从定义上来说，大多数人处于上升期，而不是接近顶峰。但我认为重要的是让人们了解，如果你实现了自己所说的目标——无论是在任何领域变得更好，比如成为更好的父母、更好的狗主人、更好的朋友等等——你会遇到哪些陷阱。是的，随着你越来越进阶，能给你建议、告诉你将会面对什么的人会越来越少。

Because by definition, most people are on the come up as opposed to closer to the top. But I think it's important to give people an idea of what are the pitfalls that are coming up for you. If you do what you say that you want to achieve, which is become better in whatever it is that you want, even becoming better as a a parent, becoming better as a dog owner, becoming better as a friend or whatever. Yeah. As you become more advanced, there will be fewer and fewer people that can give you advice about what you're gonna come up against.

总之，关键是，那些在处境变得更优越时仍愿意坚持做枯燥事情的人，会感觉有点奢华——你知道，如果你是中国举重世界冠军，我想可能有人为你做饭，你有理疗师、教练、心理辅导师，还有朋友。

Anyway, point is, people that are prepared to show up and do boring things as their situation becomes more luxurious, feel sort of opulent you know, if you're a world champion Chinese weightlifter, I imagine you've probably got your meals cooked for you. You'll have bodywork. You'll have a coach. You'll have a mindset person. You'll have friends.

你可能住在一个布置得很好的房子里，有一张根据你的生理特点定制的床，硬度什么的都恰到好处。然后你会想，当有人为你做饭，你还有定制枕头等等时，你怎么还能保持饥饿感，每周四次、每次一小时去做灵活性训练？是的。那种愿意接受的心态——无论我在这件事上做得多好，我总是得做些枯燥的活儿。嗯。

You'll be living in a house that's probably quite nicely put together, a bed that's constructed for your particular physiology, firmness, all that sort of stuff. And you think, how do you remain hungry to go in and do an hour of mobility work four times a week when you have your meals cooked for you, and you've got a custom built pillow and stuff. Yeah. And that preparedness to accept, no matter how good I get at this thing, I will always have to do boring shit. Mhmm.

这不是缺陷，而是特点。而且不仅是特点，还是竞争优势的来源。因为随着你地位提升、环境变得更舒适，其他人也会有和你一样的想法：我不应该再做这种破事了。但如果你能继续坚持最初做的事情，直到最后，那就是竞争优势所在。

And that's not a bug. It's a feature. And not only is it a feature, it's a source of competitive advantage. Because as things get more salubrious as you as you raise up through the ranks, other people will have the same thought that you do, which is I shouldn't need to do this shit anymore. You go, okay.

所以，如果你能在最后阶段依然投入最初所做的那些事情，那就是竞争优势的所在。想想看。

So if you can continue to lean into the stuff that you did at the start, at the end, that's where the competitive advantage lies. Think

我当时只是在计算数据，确保自己知道总共加起来是多少。但还没包括之前，因为在刚结束的健美比赛前，我大概节食了五个月左右。但从一月到第一场比赛的这一年里，仅计算那三个月的时期，就有连续五天做有氧运动。总共是一百二十个小时，因为在那两个月里，我早上做三十分钟，训练后再做三十分钟。然后有一个月是早上一个小时，训练后再一个小时。

I was I was just doing the math to make sure I knew what it all added up to. But not even including because before the bodybuilding show that just did, like, I I was dieting for, like, five months. But just counting the year from January until that first show, a three month period, there was five days straight of cardio. It was a 100 it was one hundred twenty hours because it was, it was thirty minutes in the morning and then thirty minutes after the workout for two of those months. And then for one of those months was an hour in the morning and an hour after.

所以连续五天，谁会愿意看五个小时这样的内容，更不用说连续五天了。是啊，更不用说亲自去做了。而这些正是我不炫耀的东西。因为，首先，根本没人有兴趣看。

So five like, who would even be able to watch five hours of something like that, let alone or five days of something like that. Yeah. Let alone do it. And that's the stuff I don't show off. Because, I mean, for one, nobody even care to watch it.

但这就像电子游戏里的隐藏任务，实际上是最有价值的东西，或者就像《夺宝奇兵》里的场景，他必须挑选圣杯。如果你没看过的话，他就在那种神奇的洞穴里。那里有一百万黄金，或者有一百个黄金圣杯，全都闪闪发光。如果你选对了，就能获得永生之类的。然后出现了两个人。

But it's it's like a it's like a hidden quest in a video game where it's actually the most valuable thing or, like, it's straight out Indiana Jones when he's gotta pick the premises. He's in this kinda magical cave, if you haven't seen it. And there's a million gold or, there's a 100 gold chalices, and they're all super flashy. And if you pick the correct one, you get in eternal life or something, whatever. So there's two guys that show up.

一个是印第安纳·琼斯，另一个是反派之类的家伙。反派选了最闪亮、镶满钻石的那个，他觉得那应该是真的，喝了一口，立刻死了之类的。有点记不清了。然后印第安纳·琼斯选了那个朴素的木杯，那就是秘密所在，那个低调的才是真正的圣杯。

It was Indiana Jones and then another, like, villain guy. And he picks the flashiest, most diamond encrusted one he could get his hands on. Like, what he thinks would be the trick, drinks from it, instantly dead or something like that. It's been a while. And then Indiana Jones picks the scrappy wooden one, and that was the secret, the one that was understated.

嗯。所以这让我有动力去做那种事情，记录所有有氧运动和卡路里摄入等等，因为我知道它的价值，因为我做过并从中获得了回报。所以我知道这实际上就是诀窍。但如果你从未做过，你就没有那种证明，它永远只是一个‘如果’。而这就是一切。

Mhmm. And it's, so that gets me motivated to do that kind of stuff and track all my cardio and calories and everything because I know its value because I've done it and gotten the value from it. So I know that it actually, like, is the trick. But if you'd if you've never done it, you don't have that proof, and it's it's always a what if. And that's everything.

说实话，至少在美国，你某种程度上被设定要走这条路。初中，高中。好吧，你必须上大学才能得到这份工作去做这个。比如，选择进入行业或我觉得我有一个很棒的商业点子。

Like, that's honestly, that's the, at least stateside, that's you're kinda programmed to do that. Middle school, high school. Okay. You have to go to college to get this job to do this. Like, the idea of doing getting into, like, a trade or getting into, like, I think I have this awesome business idea.

这绝对是少数人会从这条既定道路中分支出去的选择。并不是说这不好，但如果很多人真的能做他们想做的事，而不是仅仅跟随常规路径，他们本可以做出许多了不起的事情。

That is the minority by far to branch off from this condition path. And it's not like it's bad, but so many people might have been able to do so many awesome things if they could really do what they wanted to do instead of just, you know, following the beaten path.

兄弟。如果你正在成功过着你讨厌的生活，想象一下如果你做自己真正享受的事情会有多棒。嗯。但有很多人虽然很成功，却对自己做的事情并不热情。想象一下，如果你早上醒来真的对自己要做的事情感到兴奋，你能有多出色。

Bro. If you're succeeding at a life that you hate, imagine how great you'd be at one that you actually enjoyed. Mhmm. But there's so many people that are crushing it, and they're not fired up for what they do. Imagine how good you could be if you actually woke up on the morning and were excited for what you were about to do.

就像，这可能只是一个时代的问题。比如，有个视频是宋飞在接受采访。我不知道该不该说他是什么权威来源，但他说，你知道，回到九十年代，八十年代那时候，炫耀的是你是做什么工作的？这现在有点不同了，因为通货膨胀等等。但至少在当时是，哦，这家伙的工作比我的酷。

Like, it was a and and that might just be a a time thing. Like, there's a video of Seinfeld in an interview. And, you know, I don't I don't know if I'd call him the greatest source of whatever, but he's like, you know, back, you know, back in the in the nineties, back in the, like, the eighties, the flex was, like, what do you do for work? And that's a little different because, I mean, inflation and, you know, whatever. But at the time, at least, it was, oh, this guy has a cooler job than me.

哦，这家伙在吉他店工作。真酷。

Oh, this guy works at a guitar shop. That's cool.

嗯。嗯。

Mhmm. Mhmm.

我是个该死的会计师。那全是纸面工作。而且这非常金钱驱动。就像，这是三大经典之一。就像是性、毒品和金钱。

I'm a freaking accountant. That's just paper everything. And it's, like, it's very monetarily driven. Like, I it's it's one of the three classics. It's like sex, drugs, and money.

你知道，在社交媒体方面，性这方面也有它自己的货币化方式。

That's, you know, monetized social media wise in its own way, the sex side.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但在常规的Instagram上，尤其是在金钱方面，你根本不需要做任何事情。你完全不必是个有趣的人。如果你搞到一辆超级豪车并拍些视频，你甚至不需要拥有它——你可以认识某个拥有这辆车的人，他借给你，这就是你的全部噱头。仅仅因为你拥有如此贵重的东西。对我来说，我觉得这很糟糕。

But in regular Instagram and when it comes to, or at least the money side that you don't have to do anything. You don't have to be an interesting guy at all. If you get your hands on a super fancy car and make some videos about it, you didn't even have you could know someone who had it, and he let you and that's your whole gimmick. Just the fact that you, like, have something this valuable. And for me, I'm like, that sucks.

就像，你并没有为此付出任何努力。而那些真正付出努力的人，他们甚至不屑于炫耀，因为他们对自己所处的位置已经足够自在——就像那些说'哥们，我要参加健美比赛，我要成功，我要成为下一个某某某'的人。我的看法始终是：你本质上是在试图向宇宙证明你的价值。

Like, you didn't you didn't do anything to get that. And the ones that did, well, they don't even care to show it off because they are kind of, you know, comfortable enough with wherever they're at where it's like guys who say, oh, dude, I'm gonna do a bodybuilding show. I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna be the next whoever. My thought on that is always you're trying to essentially argue your case to the universe.

在你内心深处，那种推动你、说服所有人你能做到的想法，可能源于内心的怀疑：'我不确定自己能否做到，但我想去做。嗯...我不确定能否做到。我要告诉所有人我能做到，这样也许能说服自己。'所以，想要这样说然后真正去追求它并不是坏事。

And internally in your mind, that, you know, kind of idea to propel, like, convince everyone you can do it may come from an internal doubt of, I don't know if I can do it, but I wanna I wanna do it. Mhmm. I don't know if I can do it. I'm gonna tell everyone I can do it, and then maybe I'll be able to convince myself. So it's not bad to wanna say that and then still really go after it.

但是，以我的思维方式，我不太想谈论我要做什么。这可能对我来说是一种防御机制，因为如果我计划做某件事却彻底失败了

But, like, however I'm wired, I don't exactly wanna talk about what I'm gonna do. And it might be a little bit of a defense mechanism for me because if I have a plan to do something and then it totally flopped

嗯。

Mhmm.

那就没人知道我曾经

Well, no one knew I was

设定过目标，你就不会失败。

gonna set a goal, you can't fail.

没人知道我会这么做，所以我不觉得这有那么重要。就像，你知道，在社交媒体方面，如果我说我将在六个月内参加健美比赛，整个期间人们会说，他不会做到的。所以我想，我甚至不想谈论它。通常都是，好吧。提前十二周的视频，你知道，转型计划，就像提前几个月就开始大肆宣传。

Nobody knew I was gonna do it, so I don't but I don't think it's as much of that as it is. Like, you know, on the social media side, if I said I was gonna do a bodybuilding show in six months, the whole time people would people would say, like, he's not gonna do it. So I'm like, I don't wanna even talk about it. So usually, it's like, okay. Twelve weeks out videos, you know, transformation programs, like, just really hyping it up months in advance.

所以对我来说，就像是，好吧。我们三天后就要参加比赛了。我们已经准备好了。是的。甚至不给任何人认为它不会发生的机会。

So for me with mine, it was like, alright. We're doing a show in, like, three days. We're already we're already ready. Yeah. Not even to give anybody the opportunity to think it wouldn't happen.

嗯。因为那样你就直接去做了。而这已经更有影响力了，因为任何人都可以说他们会去做。但真正地，非常坚定地拥有那种信念，或者它甚至不是信念。它更像是一种理解，我知道我能到达我想去的地方，到了那种程度，你甚至不会怀疑如果我打翻这杯水，它会洒得到处都是。

Mhmm. Because then you just do it. And that's already way more impactful because anybody could say they're gonna do it. But to actually, like, have that belief very firmly or it it's not even a belief. It's like an under it's I wanna have an understanding that I know I can get where I wanna go, where it's to the point where you don't believe that if I knock this water, it was gonna spill everywhere.

你知道它会。你知道在那种情况下会发生什么。所以如果你真的投入了，也许一开始，我确信其中一部分只是源于最佳的自我欺骗，但我认为你可能甚至需要一些那样的东西才能开始。但现在已经到了我知道我将能够做到什么，或者我知道我能做到什么的地步，并且我至少想在我真正投入的事情上达到那种努力和坚持的水平。我不是对所有事情都这样。

You know it. You know that's what is gonna happen from the circumstance. So if you're really on and and maybe in the beginning, I'm sure some of it was just from optimal delusion, but I think you might even need some of that just to get started. But now it's to the point where I know what I'll be capable of or I know what I am capable of, and I wanna at least reach that level of, you know, effort and consistency with the things that I'm really into. I'm not like that with everything.

但至少在锻炼方面，那是我的专长。你知道，不要把所有的鸡蛋放在一个篮子里。大部分。但如果大部分都在那里，你就应该给予它很多关注。而且我知道如果我做到了，我会感觉更好。

But with the working out, at least, specifically, like, that's my thing. You know, all your eggs in not all your eggs in one basket. Most. But if most of them are in there, you should give it a lot of attention. And I know I'll feel better if I do.

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说到备赛，今年第一场健美秀，嗯。男性身体畸形恐惧症预计将在几十年内超过女性。是的。你和镜子的关系怎么样？

When it comes to prep, first bodybuilding show this year Mhmm. Male body dysmorphia is on track to overtake female body dysmorphia within a couple of decades. Yeah. What's your relationship with the mirror like?

我当时确实有点感受到，因为那一天你真的排掉了所有的水分。就像，你在平常的日子里永远不会看起来那样。而且，我的意思是，那也是一种有趣的外观。就像，你真的想一直看起来像个舞台上的健美运动员吗？我理解那一天的那种吸引力。

I was definitely feeling it a little because you are it's one day where you just really depleted all your water. Like, you will never look like that on a regular day to day basis. And, also, I mean, it's also kind of an interesting look. Like, do you really wanna look like a stage bodybuilder all the time? Like, I get so I get the allure there for the day.

但之后，实际上吃更多食物，稍微变得软一点，因为这就是它的本质。那才是我真正有点感受到的时候，因为我只是看着自己有史以来最疯狂的版本，而现在我不是那样了。但这更多是一种心理上的事情，你把自己想象成什么？当你想到克里斯·威廉姆森时，你想到的是完美的灯光、巨大、健壮、肌肉分明、充满泵感吗？

But afterward, like, actually eating more food and kinda getting a little bit softer just from because that's the nature of it. That was actually when I did feel it a little because I was just looking at the absolute craziest version of myself ever, and now I'm not that. But it's kind of a it's it's more of a mental thing where what do you imagine yourself as? When you think of Chris Williamson, are you thinking awesome lighting, huge, jacked, ripped, pumped up?

是的。继续说。

Yes. Keep going.

我想，或者至少我试着，更多地想象自己就像日常中的样子。就像，在追求尺寸的过程中，我变得越大，我就越能接受自己现在这么大的事实。对吧？我不觉得有必要只发布我最壮的照片，甚至还要去Photoshop它，那太糟糕了。不仅那样做是在撒谎，对你展示的人来说也很愚蠢。

I'm thinking or at least I try to, like, imagine myself more so as, like, just, like, how I look in the day. Like, the the more that or the larger I've gotten just in, like, the the pursuit of size, the more comfortable I've gotten with, like, just the fact that I'm as big as I am. Right? I don't feel the need to, like, only post my biggest picture and, like, even go so far as to, like, Photoshop it or like, that's just that sucks. Not only is that, like, you're just lying by doing that, which for the people you're showing is that's that's stupid.

这确实很艰难。但你在欺骗自己，因为你肯定看着那张照片在想，那就是我的样子。其实那不是你的真实模样。当我在健身房状态饱满时，那是一种特殊状态，本身很酷，之后我又会恢复平常的样子。对我而言，我一直以实际进步为导向去健身，不太在意今天在众人眼中的形象如何。

That's rough. But you're lying to yourself because you're definitely looking at that picture and thinking, you know, that's how I look. That's not how you look. When I'm when I'm pumped up in the gym, that is its own circumstance, which is cool in its own way, and then I can go back to what I normally look like. And for me, I've been so, like, real progress driven with the gym where I'm not so concerned with how do I look today for everyone who's gonna see me.

而那些常年保持精瘦身材、不停发Instagram的人就是如此。

And those guys are the guys who stay lean all year round, always posting Instagram.

因为他们害怕变得太臃肿，从而影响长期进步。

Because they're scared of getting too fluffy to make the longer term progress.

嗯，也许并非所有人都出于恐惧，如果你真心追求那种形象，那很好。这很棒。就像，你确实差不多做到了。但如果你是因为害怕才这样，那就是恐惧在驱动。只是害怕看起来稍微胖一点或怎么样。

Well, maybe not scared in every case because if that's the look that you really want, then you're good. That's sweet. Like, you're you actually kinda did it. But if you're someone where you actually are scared of that, then that's the motivation. It's just fear of, you know, looking a little softer or anything.

而且，说实话，我们也没起到好作用。那些发布极端照片的人其实让情况更糟，因为他们展示的是完全夸张的样子。但这就是现实，你只能更客观地去理解。要知道，这些人能这样是因为他们付出了一切努力。

And, I mean, we're not helping. You know, guys who post a really crazy picture aren't exactly helping the situation because they're showing a totally crazy version. But it's that's where I mean, it's just how it is. So it's kinda your responsibility to try to grasp it more objectively. Like, these guys look like this because of everything that they're doing.

你不能忘记这一点。

You can't forget that.

嗯。你在和粉丝互动时见过这种情况吗？你知道，你有很多年轻追随者。你的受众群体是哪些人？他们的

Mhmm. Do you see this with the fans that you interact with? You know, you've got young followers. What's your demographic? What's the

范围很广。大概是均匀分布在18岁以下、18到30岁左右，以及30岁以上这几个年龄段。

It's wide. It's it's it's probably evenly dispersed between 18 and below, 18 to, like, 30, and then 30 and above.

好的。

Okay.

因为我下飞机时，比如有个年纪大点的飞行员会问我：'山姆，我降落得怎么样？'我当时愣了一下才反应过来。但年龄分布范围比我预想的要广得多。

Because I'll get I mean, I'm I'm getting off flights, and, like, this older pilot is like, how's my landing, Sam? I was like it it like, it took me a second. But it like, way wider than I ever would have guessed.

不过即使在这个范围内，对吧各位，我觉得所有年龄段的男性

Well, even within that, right, guys, I guess of all ages

是的。健身房里的确什么人都有。

Yeah. We're everybody's in the gym.

关于身体畸形恐惧症的现象让我非常着迷。虽然我们建立了关于身体积极性的文化叙事和原型，但女性方面可能有些刻意造作的成分。而男性似乎没有类似的运动浪潮，这正解释了为何男性身体焦虑问题正在急剧加剧。

Body dysmorphia thing I think it really fascinates me. I think we've got a good cultural narrative and archetype around, you know, body positivity for all that there were lots of things that was maybe a little contrived with that for women. Yeah. I don't think we've had the same sort of a movement for men. And I think that that's why this male body dysmorphia thing really, really ramping up.

你看过《更大、更强、更快》那部纪录片吧？嗯。六十年代的卢克·天行者手办还是个书呆子形象，到了九十年代，他已经坚持五年健身训练了。

I mean, you you saw Bigger, Stronger, Faster. Mhmm. Right? Where Luke Skywalker action figure in the sixties was sort of like nerdy dude. And then in the nineties, you know, he's been doing five by five for a few years.

是的。

Yeah.

然后到了大概二月份，他进行了一个非常、非常高强度的训练课程。你会想，为什么卢克·天行者需要线条分明的三角肌？所以这就是正在发生的‘大块头膨胀’现象。

And then by sort of the February, he's been on a very, very heavy course of trend. And you go, why does Luke Skywalker need striated delts? So you've got this bigflation thing that's going on.

但这并不新鲜。我是说，《洛奇》是什么时候上映的？

But that's not new. I mean, when did Rocky come out?

确实如此。确实如此。但我觉得，如果你看看这种现象的普遍程度，它的饱和水平，是的。

That's true. That's true. But I I think if you were to look at how prevalent that's been, the saturation level Yeah.

更有可能。

Much more likely.

是的。如果洛奇作为一个拳击手肌肉发达，是的。这不现实吗？很多拳击手都是那样健壮的吗？可能不是。

Yeah. If Rocky as a boxer is ripped, yeah. Is it unrealistic? Are many boxers that built? Probably not.

但是，至少，那个挥舞光剑的书呆子，可能不是他。是的。但现在没有任何领域能避免有人为了它而练得肌肉发达。我只是对你从观众那里看到的情况感兴趣，以及你对比你更年轻的、现在正在成长的一代人的看法，他们如何尝试平衡这一点。我想看起来更好，但我不想感到不足，我不想一辈子都讨厌镜子里的自己。

But, like, at the very least, the nerdy dude that, like, swings this lightsaber around, probably not him. Yeah. But there's no area now that's beyond somebody being jacked for it. I'm just interested in what what you're seeing from your audience and what you think for sort of younger generations, even younger than you that are coming up now, to try and have this balance. I want to look better, but I don't want to I don't wanna feel in deficit, and I I I don't wanna go through life hating the mirror.

是的。这这绝对是一个我必须提出的角度，或者说那是需要被审视的事情。但就情况而言，我认为男性总是会更轻松一些，因为尽管存在标准，但仍然与女性的标准不同。而且男性更倾向于这样看待事情：妈的，我就是胖而已。

Yeah. That's that's definitely an angle I have to bring up, or that that is something, like, to be looked at. But in in terms of the situation, I think guys are always gonna have it easier because as much of a standard as there is, it's still not the same as for women. And guys are more likely to look at things as like, shit, man. I'm just fat.

或者如果你是男性，可能就会这样，男性之间会这样互相开玩笑，因为这就是我们的相处方式。这更偏向于，我不想说是嬉闹，但你可以说有点直白。但这不太可能困扰我们。你知道吗？我并不是那种适合去问'减掉300磅是什么感觉'的人。

Or if if you're if you're a guy like that could just be like like, guys will joke around with each other like that because, like, that's just kind of how we are. It's a little more, I don't wanna say playful, but you could you could say kind of blunt like that. But it it's not as likely to eat at us. Would you know? I'm not exactly the guy to go to to be like, what was it like to lose 300 pounds?

我可以试着猜测。我不确定。但我我认为随着健身越来越普遍，这种情况肯定在增加。但这是另一个极端，比如：好吧，我要么得看起来像罗尼·科尔曼或格雷格·普利特那样，要么就一文不值，这是天平的一端，这很糟糕。

I could try to guess. I don't know for sure. But I I think it's definitely increasing the more prevalent fitness is becoming. But it's a it's something where another middle ground, like, okay. I either have to look like a Ronnie Coleman or like a Greg Plitt or I'm completely worthless, which is this side of the scale, which that sucks.

或者，哥们，我根本不在乎我的外表。我要胖到四百磅，而且我会很喜欢。这完全没问题。而那也很糟糕。所以存在一个中间地带，我认为重要的是你可以做自己最严厉的批评者，但如果你是自己最恶劣的憎恨者，那就不一样了。

Or, man, I don't care how I look. I'm gonna be four hundred pounds, and I'm gonna love it. There's no problem with this at all. And that's that sucks too. So there is a middle ground of where I think it's important to you can be your own, like, worst critic, but it's different if your own worst if you're your own worst hater.

你可以告诉自己有些事情需要改进。但真正地自我贬低，比如'我就是个...'我讨厌听到这个。我看到一些去健身房的男性，总是我提到的那个家伙，因为太离谱了。每次我来锻炼，他都会说：哦，怎么样啊兄弟？他会说：妈的。

You can tell yourself you have things that you wanna work on. But to really, like, self depreciate and, like, I'm just such a I I hate to hear it. I'll see guys where they I'm into the gym, and it's it's always the same guy I referenced here because it was so egregious. Every time I'd come in to work out, he's like, oh, how you doing, man? He's like, shit.

今天真糟糕。我讨厌这里。我想离开。但他不是在开玩笑。而且，对他来说，这就回到了有时候说'哦，这一切都太糟糕了'是一种自我安慰的行为。

Squad today. I hate it. I wanna get out of here. But he's not joking. And, I mean, for him, that's where it goes back to, like, sometimes it's a self soothing behavior to say, oh, this all sucks so bad.

而你就像是在推卸对这种情况的责任。比如：哦，一切都很糟。就是这样。但是，是的。这是我最想听到的，因为对于一个高中男生来说，从一个160磅的正常样子变得相当魁梧。

And you're, like, releasing your responsibility for the situation. Like, oh, everything sucks. Just how it is. But it's, yeah. That's what I really like to hear the most because for a high school guy to go from, like, one sixty normal looking dude to pretty big.

我是说，在只锻炼一年、完全没控制饮食的情况下，你也能看起来相当不错。比如，饮食差异很大，但并没有那么难。嗯哼。因为你确实会有一个不错的起点，毕竟你本来就已经很精瘦了。

I mean, after a year of only working out, no diet at all, you can look pretty good. Like, eat drastically different, but it didn't take that much. Mhmm. Because you do get that early starting point of, well, you were already pretty lean.

新手福利期是真实存在的，老兄。

New noob gains are real, dude.

是啊，新手福利期。而且刚开始的时候，你对训练的反应最敏感。所以当有人给我看他们的减脂转变，比如，老兄，看看这张照片。但这不是我现在看到的这个人。

Yeah. Noob gains. And right in the beginning, you're the most susceptible to your training. So for someone to show me their, you know, fat loss transformation, like, dude, look at this picture. And it's not the guy I'm looking at right now.

比如，他减了150磅。这些家伙可能就在我常去的健身房，他和他的爸爸在一起。然后，我们拍了张照片，接着他走开去做一组训练。他爸爸告诉我，说，老兄，他开始看你讲饮食的视频。他真的投入进去了。

Like, it's hundred fifty pounds. So these guys could be in, like, my gyms that I go to, and he's with his dad. And, like, we get a little picture and then, you know, he walks off and does a set. And then his dad's telling me, he's like, dude, he started watching you talk about dieting. Like, he really got into it.

我完全没想到会发生这样的事。彻底改变了这家伙的生活。但这不是因为我说了什么，而是因为他采取了行动去实现。当有人这样做时，说实话，在所有事情中，即使是那些起点可能更精瘦的人，他们也能变得相当壮硕。

I never could have guessed this what happened. Like, completely changed the dude's life. And it but not because I said something, but because he, like, took the action to do it. And when someone does that, like, out of honestly, out of everything, even someone who, like, had a regular like, maybe they started off a little leaner. They got pretty big.

他们可能卧推很厉害之类的。我总是更佩服这样的人，而且我实际上能看出来。就是那种，我知道你了解我真正看重的东西。比如，做大量有氧运动、记录卡路里、走进厨房时，哦，我想吃点东西，但我会忍住。

They had a big bench or something. Like, I'm always more impressed, and I can actually, like, get a look. Just something about, like, I know that you know about the things that I really value. Like, doing cardio a ton, tracking your calories, going into your kitchen and, like, oh, I wanna eat something. I'm not gonna do it though.

我能处理好自己内心的斗争，并真正实现目标，比如减重，因为减掉那么多体重，我不知道，大概是普通增肌难度的10倍吧，但难度确实高得多。嗯哼。所以当我听到这样的故事时，我会想，我们要多聊一会儿。比如，我们得在这里好好谈谈。这就是我想听到的。

I can I'm gonna handle this internal battle I'm giving myself and actually making it happen and like losing because losing so that much weight is like, I don't know, about 10 times, but it's up there in a multiplicity of difficulty from just working at and liking it and getting a little more muscle. Mhmm. So those are the guys where when I hear that, I'm like, we're gonna talk for a little longer. Like, we're not I'm gonna we're gonna have a little chat here. Like, that's what I wanna hear.

你提到了一些男女之间的差异，你大概增重了100磅左右吧。是的，从最低点到

You mentioned, sort of some of the differences between guys and girls that you've gained, what, 100 pounds ish probably something. Yeah. From from bottom to

最高点，100磅。没错。

top. 100. Yeah.

是的。很多肌肉，状态很棒。你在舞台上看起来棒极了。考虑到大多数男人去健身房是为了吸引女生的注意嗯。现在你体重超过两百磅了，你从男生和女生那里得到的关注比例是怎样的？

Yeah. A lot of muscle, great condition. You look fantastic on the stage. Given that most guys go to the gym in order to get attention from girls Mhmm. What is the ratio of attention that you get from guys and girls now that you are in the big two hundreds?

是的。对。我不知道社交媒体数据是否能作为指标，或者你的观众性别比例如何。但至少在我那些长视频里，人们是来听我谈论健身及相关话题的，我称之为“百分之四群体”，因为女性观众只占4%。我的意思是，这并不不合理，因为我是从一个男性的角度谈论健身。

Yeah. Right. I don't know I don't know about the if the social media stats are any indicator or, like, what what your gender demographics are. But at least for my, like, long form videos where people are actually coming to watch me talk about working out and, like, the things that go along with it, it's, I I I call them the four percenters because it's the 4% female viewers. And, I mean, it it's not, like, unreasonable because I'm talking about working out as a guy from a guy's perspective.

是的。但我会插句话，因为有时候我会说，抱歉，我不是看臀肌训练的最佳人选。所以有时候如果有人，比如，兄弟，我真的想认真开始，我要全力以赴。我想知道减掉300磅是什么感觉。

Yeah. But, I mean, I'll I'll chime in because sometimes I'll be like, I'm sorry. I'm not I don't I'm not the guy to watch for glute training. So it's sometimes where if someone's you know, dude, I I wanna get into a serious like, I'm I'm gonna really lock in. I wanna know what it's like to lose 300 pounds.

我想知道那是什么样的体验。就像，那种情况下我会说，我可以告诉你我所知道的，但如果你想看别人是怎么做到的，那你应该去看别人，从他们的历程中获得灵感。

I wanna know what it's like to whatever. Like, that's where I'm gonna say, you know, I can tell you what I know, but if you wanna watch someone who did it, then you get to watch somebody else and kind of get inspired from their track.

那现实生活中呢？因为，你知道，有些男人可能甚至不知道你是谁，随着你越来越壮，比如，兄弟，你的手臂是怎么练的？是的。就像，有很多女生会走过来问，Sam，你的前臂会变得这么粗壮吗？

What about IRL? Because, you know, guys that might not even know who you are as you're getting bigger, like, dude, like, are you doing for arms? Yeah. Like, it's many girls that come up and go, Sam, like, you use your your forearms are gonna be getting so big.

所以这是一点，这并非动机，因为那些这样想的人，甚至这个想法本身就很奇怪。哦，如果我更大只一点，女孩们就会围着我转。如果我的疑虑少一些...那绝对不是价值体系。

So that's that's one thing which was not the motivation because the guys who think like, even the idea is strange. Oh, if I was a big if I was just bigger, girls be all over me. If I if my doubts were a little that's not that's not the value system for sure.

但在你的世界里不是这样运作的

It's not how it works in your But

但如果你足够出名，她们会主动过来和你说话，会说：我哥哥超喜欢你。我男朋友超喜欢你。你能拍张照让我发给他吗？因为我在他手机上经常看到你——她们自己不看你视频，但间接地看到他看。所以实际上，如果你足够有名，女孩们会因为想为她们爸爸要张照片而主动找你说话。

but if you get big enough, they will come up and talk to you, and they'll say, my brother loves you. My my boyfriend loves you. Could you take a picture so I could send it to him? Because I see you on his phone so much that they they don't watch the videos, but they see him, like, secondarily. So it actually if you get big enough, girls will talk to you because they will come up and ask you for a picture for their dad.

网上有个梗说你有女性恐惧症。

There's a a a meme online that you have a a fear of women.

所以这又回到了早期的TikTok视频

So that that plays back into the earlier TikToks

好吧。

Okay.

就像我的公式，我只是觉得有趣，但我的所有内容都是：如果你想发一个10秒左右的健身短视频，你可能会想谈论健身有多严肃，或者甚至不加字幕。就直接说

Where I my formula, which I just thought was funny, but, like, how all my things were was if you wanna post a video about working out in, like, a ten second little short, like, you might think you wanna talk about how serious the gym is or have, a like, don't even do a caption. Just just say, like, grind or, like, you don't know what it takes. But how I've always looked at it is, like, if you're big, you have already said that you are serious. Like, unspokenly just from how you are as a guy or what the the video was, like, clearly, you're serious because you have these results that you're showing off in the video. To say anything like a motivational just thing on top of that, which, like, if it's a motivational video, that's different.

但就常规内容而言，这就像是在帽子上再加一顶帽子。对我来说，就是发布一个很酷很燃的锻炼视频。比如凌晨3:15我在卧推，但配文却是一些傻乎乎的内容。一些你意想不到的东西，因为你知道，我想变强的唯一理由就是为了保护家里的猫咪。或者像是，我今天不得不提前结束锻炼。

But in terms of, like, regular kind of content, like, you're putting a hat on a hat. For me, it's like post a workout video that's just really cool and hype of the workout. And I'm like, lifting bench at 03:15, but then the caption is, like, just something silly. Something you wouldn't expect because it's like, you know, I the only reason I wanna get strong is so I can protect my cats at home. Or, like, it's like, I had to cut this workout short today.

因为我妈要接我去买菜。所以就是一些傻气的内容，因为这不是你会预料到的。嗯。大家总是发那种，你会想发什么'哦我真是太...'之类的

My mom had to pick me up to go get groceries. So, like like, something silly because that's not something you'd expect. Mhmm. And everybody always posted like, you'd wanna post, like, oh, I'm so it's Oh,

全是奋斗模式啊，老兄。

it's all grind set. Sir.

所以这几乎就像，你知道，只要你对某件事足够认真，当你在其他事情上犯傻时反而会更有趣。

So it's it's almost like, you know, just you can be if you're serious enough about something, it's even funnier when you're silly with something else.

这和害怕女性有什么关系？

What's that got to do with the fear of women thing?

因为那是他自己的梗。对吧。你会觉得像这样的大块头，根据我们之前说的，就像是'哦你锻炼是为了撩妹'。这有点...而且这个梗不是我想出来的。我之前看到过，刚好在我身上更适用一些。

Because that's his own joke. Right. You would think big brolic guy like, just from what we were saying before, it's like, oh, you're working as a get girls. That is kinda and I didn't come up with that joke. Like, I saw it before and kinda just, like it happened to scale a little more with me.

但这就像是它自己的笑点：'哦你这个高大威猛的男子汉什么的，我能和你一起练吗？'然后在视频里我就直接消失，像瞬间移动一样。因为这就是你意想不到的事情。很有趣。

But it's like, that's its own joke of like, oh, you this is this big, like, masculine dude, whatever. Like, can I work in with you? And then in the video, I just, like, disappear, like, teleport. Because that's that's just something that you wouldn't expect. Like, it's funny.

是的。是的。是的。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

是的。但后来，你知道，它蔓延到了现实生活中，比如我们做了见面会。第一次我拍照时有个女孩在场，所有评论都是：搞什么鬼？我以为他什么？

Yeah. But then it but, you know, then it bled into, like, real life where, like, we did meet and greets. And, like, the first time I ever took a picture and there was a girl there, all the comments were like, what the fuck? I thought he what?

他们感觉被背叛了。

They feel like they've been betrayed.

是的。是的。是的。就像在那种情况下你会怎么做，你想要的是那种'兄弟们，这个见面会只限男性参加'的氛围。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, what do you in a world where that was actually the case, what you want there to be like, guys, this meet and greet's guys only.

是啊。那样的话，至少根据你的受众群体，你能得到4%的比例。

Yeah. Well, like, that that wouldn't you're at least gonna get 4% based on your demo.

是4%。

It's 4%.

没错。正是这样。

Yeah. Exactly.

Instagram是20%，但那是因为它是Instagram。嗯。因为那不是真正在看你的内容。嗯。我认为最真实的观众和最真实的反馈和评论是在YouTube上，因为很多人是特意来看完整训练的。是的。

Instagram's 20%, but that's because it's Instagram. Mhmm. Because that's because that's not, like, really watching your stuff. Mhmm. Like, I think the most real viewers and the most real feedback and comments, that's on the YouTube because there's a lot of intent to watch a whole workout Yep.

或者甚至看部分训练。而在Instagram上，内容可能只是被推给你，随手就划走了。就像什么都没发生一样。

Or even some of a workout. Whereas on Instagram, you can just something can be shown to you, scroll it away. It's like nothing.

你之前还在Spotify上发视频吧，我觉得你可能现在还在发。

You were posting on you may still do Spotify video, I think.

有些内容会被转发到那里。

There's stuff that gets reposted there.

那不是你吗？那不是你的频道？

That's not you? That's not your channel?

我会处理这个的。我有几件事，算是待办清单上的。对。比如要去追踪或者拿回控制权。

I'll get into it. It's I've got a couple of things where it's, like, on the list of things to kinda Right. Like, track down or get control of.

嗯，他们现在做视频了，所以你基本上可以复制一份过去。

Well, they do video now, so you can basically duplicate it.

所以你就把它插在那边。

So you just plug it over there.

整个东西。是的。我觉得这样很好，因为人们肯定会愿意听的。

The whole thing. Yeah. I think that'll be good because people it would certainly work to listen to.

是的。因为你可以直接听

Yeah. Because you can just listen to

整个东西。里面还有咕哝声。

whole thing. Grunting in there.

那个...如果是音频形式的话，我可能会剪掉一些部分。我会去掉那些锻炼的声音和ASMR，可能只在中间专门的小片段里说明锻炼内容。是的，是的。然后之后再讨论。

That's that's something where if it was an audio form, I'd probably cut some of that out. Instead of the workout sounds and ASMR, I'd probably just say what the workout was in its own little niche segment in the middle Yeah. Yeah. And then talk about it after.

是的。是的。

Yeah. Yeah.

是的。因为我...是的。那本身就是个笑点。比如，它会像是，兄弟，别不带耳机看这个视频。或者我妻子进来，以为我在看，嗯，随便什么。

Yeah. Because I yeah. That's its own joke. Like, it'll be, dude, don't watch this video without headphones. Or my wife came in, and she thought I was watching, like, whatever.

是的。实际上我觉得，嗯，我不知道。对我来说，这让我感觉自己在保持真实。但这是不是太过分了？所以我不确定。

Yep. And it's so I actually think, like, I I don't know. I just for me, that makes me feel like I'm keeping it real. But is it too much? So I don't know.

我不是太担心这个。

I'm not too worried about it.

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你现在对长寿和其中的权衡有多少考虑？

How much are you thinking about longevity at the moment and the trade offs?

这件事我会提出来，因为有些人会问我。比如，你会转战公开组吗？或者迫不及待想看到你成为奥林匹亚先生。好像这是我正在走的道路。对我来说，更多的是，好吧。

That's one thing I I'll bring up because it's like guys will ask me. It's like, are you gonna move to open? Are you gonna or it's can't wait to see you as mister Olympia. Like, as though it's a it's that's the track that I'm on. And for me, it's more so it's like, okay.

为了在健美这条路上走得更远一些，我愿意付出什么？对吧？因为如果你是顶级的奥林匹亚先生竞争者，那本身就意味着很多东西。你知道吗？比如，竞技层面的健美并不是……嗯，我可能不是最适合给建议的人，因为我不像杰·卡特勒那样是健美界的真正大佬，也不像那些在这项运动中摸爬滚打多年的真正评论员或裁判。

What am I willing to do that adds to this whole thing with bodybuilding that will take me, you know, a certain degree of distance? Right? Because if you're a top level Olympia competitor, that comes with its own things. You know? Like, it's not as though bodybuilding on a competitive level is and, you know, I might not be the one to say recommend because I'm not like a complete g of bodybuilding, like a Jay Cutler or like a real commentator or a judge would be who's been in this sport for years.

但这并不是一件值得永远追求的事情。实际上，我变得越强壮，就越开始满足于自己已经拥有的体型，而以前我曾幻想过三百磅的山姆·苏利克。是的，一旦我达到三百磅，那可能会是……但当你通过时间的推移和进步真正到达一个不同的位置时，你对自己真正想要的东西会有不同的看法。因为即使你可能通过某个目标达到了那个水平，但现在的你已经是一个完全不同的人，处于不同的境遇中。

But it's like, it's not something to be pursued forever. Like, actually, the bigger I've gotten, the more I've started to be content with the size that I already am where I used to imagine three hundred pound Sam Sulik. Like, yeah. Once I get to three hundred, that'll start to be but it's, it's something where when you actually get to a different position just over time and, like, through progress, you're gonna have a different perception of, like, what you actually want. Because even though you may have reached that level from having a certain goal, now you're a completely different person with different circumstances.

尽管那个目标在开始时可能很好地激励了你，但有时候它也会改变。

And as good as that goal may have been to motivate you in the beginning, like, sometimes that can change.

是的，老兄。那是……而且

Yeah, dude. That's And

这并不是放弃。只是你有了更好的视角，现在你知道的更多，可以做出更好的决定。

it's not a giving up. It's just you've gotten a better perspective, and now you know more to make a better decision.

这是一个非常棒的观点：当你接近目标时调整它们，对某些人来说，感觉像是在让步。你已经完成了困难的部分，为什么不再加把劲，真正地、真正地推动自己呢？但就像你刚开始当厨师时认为的一道好菜，嗯，随着你变得更加精通，你对好菜的看法也会改变。

That's a really fantastic point that adjusting your goals as you get closer to them, to some people, feels like, seeding ground. You've already done the hard part. Why are you not applying more pressure and and and and really, really pushing? But the same as what you considered to be a good dish when you were starting out as a chef Mhmm. Will not be what you consider to be a good dish as you become more sophisticated.

是的。而且那道菜可能更简单。所以你一开始可能会做这些非常复杂、有500种配料的东西，但后来你会想，其实，你知道，只是一份好的意面。比如，我就能做出一份很棒的意面，我觉得那挺不错的。所以，是的，辨别好坏的能力，就像品味一样。

Yeah. And that dish may be more simple. So you may start out making these really complex things with 500 ingredients, and you think, well, actually, you know, just a good pasta. Like, I can just nail a good pasta, and I think that that's pretty sweet. So, yeah, the ability to discern good from bad, like taste.

比如，对我来说，什么样的目标才算是有品位的追求？什么能引起我的共鸣？当我逐渐接近某个目标时，如何意识到也许我之前爬的梯子有点靠错了墙，所以我只需要调整一下方向，然后继续往这边攀登。

Like, what's something that's a tasteful goal for me to go toward? What's something that resonates? How do I realize as I get closer to something that maybe the ladder I was climbing was kind of leaning up against the wrong wall a little bit, so I'm just gonna adjust it, and I'm gonna keep climbing over here.

至少在健美领域，确实有一些例子。我的意思是，实际上肯定有成千上万的案例，只是社交媒体上没有突出报道，所以我无法确定这种情况何时会发生。但说到健美，我并不推荐每个人都去尝试。当我看到现在这种流行趋势，比如有人认为我必须成为一名健美运动员，或者年轻小伙子说必须在某个阶段登上舞台，我觉得它的价值被过度夸大了，因为它非常炫耀。

And it's, with with bodybuilding, at least, there's a few examples. I mean, actually, I'm sure there's thousands where it's just it's not highlighted on social media, so I wouldn't have any input on when this might happen. But with bodybuilding, it's, it's not something I'd recommend for everyone. Like, when I see the like, I I don't I have to tell you its prevalence now, like the idea of I need to be a bodybuilder or, like, a younger guy saying I have to be able to get on stage at a certain point. I, I think it's a a bit overinflated in its value because it's very showy.

你只看到最后那个闪亮的终点。而且这还是在社交媒体的范围内，尽管我尽量不过度渲染，不让自己看起来更酷或更好，不描绘我可能实际过的疯狂生活方式，但它的呈现方式仍然有点浮夸。所以如果你痴迷于某个想法而去接近那个真实的事物，现在你对它的想法会变成真正的理解，然后你会意识到：靠，老兄。我不...比如有些人真的成为了职业选手，他们真的投入进去了。

You only see that, like, little flashy kind of point at the end. And it's also in a scope of social media where, like, as much as I'm not trying to overdo it and make myself, like, look cooler or better, like, portray a crazy lifestyle that I might actually live, like, it's still kind of flashy in its presentation. So if you get obsessed with, like, the idea of something to actually approach what that real thing is, now your idea of it is actually gonna become a real understanding of it, and you'll realize, like, shit, man. I wouldn't I like, there's guys where they have gone pro. Like, they really got into it.

他们当初是百分之百认真的。然后他们意识到这并不适合我。我不会...后退不是正确的说法。我会重新定向到我真正重视的事情上。如果在任何时候发生这种情况，那就是我会做的选择。

They were 100% serious. And then they realized this isn't for me. I'm gonna I'm gonna not like, backpedal isn't the right word. I'm gonna just redirect towards something which I actually value now. And if at any point that would happen, then that's what I would do.

你个人现在如何权衡健康与审美之间的关系？你已经做得很好了

How do you now personally weigh health versus aesthetics? You've got this

嗯，我是说，每个人其实都有具体的量化指标。你知道，大家都在做各种检测，说实话，我觉得每个人都应该定期验血，哪怕只是出于好奇。

Well, I mean, everybody, there's actual, like, numerical metrics. You know, everyone's getting their like, honestly, I think everybody should be getting their blood tested even just out of curiosity.

这是你经常在做的事情吗？

That's something you're doing regularly?

是的，是的。所以，任何认真对待健美的人，他们都会定期进行相当全面的血液检查。如果不这样做，那你就错过了很多。但糟糕的是，其实我有点被宠坏了，因为我的全科医生会帮我开所有需要的检查单。

Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's definitely like, anybody who's serious about bodybuilding, they're all getting relatively extensive blood tests pretty regularly. And if they're not, then, like, you are missing out. But what sucks is actually it's, I'm kinda spoiled because my general practitioner will order all my stuff.

比如，全套的全面检查。而很多医生，我会听到一些故事，比如，'我能只检查一下我的睾酮水平吗？'一个普通年轻人。'不行，你还年轻。'

Like, a full pan with everything. Whereas a lot of doctors like, I'll I'll hear stories where it's like, you know, can I just get, like, can I just get my test leveled? A normal dude. Nah. You you're young.

'你不需要担心那种事情。'这就像是，我敢肯定你也有自己的看法，但这有点落后于时代了。因为如果有人是直接性腺功能减退的，他的值可能低到几乎没有。嗯。那完全可能

You don't have to worry about something like that. And it's, like I mean, I'm sure you've got your own take on it, but it's just kind of this behind the curve sort of thing. Because that's something like could what if you're a guy where you're straight up hypogonadal and you're you might be literally whatever value is barely any. Mhmm. That could totally

五十几或者两百左右什么的。

fifties or the 2 hundreds or something.

就是说，如果有人低于100。嗯。而这不是你能控制的。如果你的激素完全失调，那就需要干预了。这完全是医生会考虑的事情。但我经常看到的是，你可以拿这句话无限延伸，来为最疯狂的事情辩护。

Saying, like, if if there was somebody where they were under a 100 Mhmm. And it's like, you didn't have any control over that. And if your hormones are totally out of whack, then that would be warrant for intervention. And that was something that would be totally, like, doctor viewed. But what I see a lot is you could take that statement and stretch it as far as it could go to justify the craziest things.

嗯。

Mhmm.

比如，在训练中我经常看到这种情况。一个50岁、深蹲900磅、经验丰富、在圈内备受尊敬的人，会发个视频，他现在还在训练。他已经练了四十年或三十五年了。他会说，'现在，深蹲的回报与风险比，已经不划算了。'

Like, it's with, and I see it a lot in training. A 50 year old x 900 pound squatter complete, like, real experience and respect in the space, will make a video, and he's training now still. And he's been training for forty years or thirty five years. And he'll say, you know, right now, it's back squats. They're just not the the reward to wrist to reward ratio, it's not there.

对我的下背部来说负担太重了。我的膝盖它们已经有点磨损了，所以对我来说，我必须坚持做更轻的腿举，你知道，就是更稳定的动作。这是基于他的情况。而一个刚开始健身的人，他们可能对一切都掌握得很好，会听到这个。然后这就很容易成为借口说，看，这家伙说你甚至不需要深蹲。

It's too much on my lower back. My knees are they've been kinda worn like it's so for me, I've gotta stick to more, like, lighter leg press and, you know, just more kind of stable movements. And that's backed by his situation. And someone who is kinda starting a little earlier in the gym, they might have an awesome, like, grasp of everything, will hear that. And then that's an easy argument to say, well, this guy said you don't even need to squat.

我不做深蹲。老兄，深蹲就像，甚至不是一种接受，比如，我不想深蹲。这就是我不做的原因。但就是这样，你知道，试图把标准降低到他们的水平，比如，我就是不愿意深蹲。我不想做。

I'm not squatting. Dude, squats like, not even an acceptance of, like, I don't wanna squat. That's why I don't do it. But just this, you know, trying to bring the bar down to their level of, like, well, I'm not willing to squat. I don't wanna do it.

如果我能证明为什么我不需要做它，那么实际上，我并没有跳过任何东西。我做得少反而是对的。

If I can justify why I don't need to do it, then actually, I'm not skipping anything. I'm doing it right by doing less.

这和血液检查之间有什么联系或类比？

What's the, line what's the linkage or analogy between that and the bloods?

是的。嗯，只是因为，因为这样有些人可能会说，哦，你知道，我的睾酮水平可能本来就很低。他们甚至没做检查。有人可能会说，就像，你知道，我看了WebMD，上面说...所以我不太提这个，但是那种正常化和，就像，普遍的状况，就像，那没什么大不了的。就像，那不是...兄弟，

Yeah. Well, it's just, because because then some you know, somebody could say, oh, you know, my test was probably super low anyway. They didn't even get a test. Somebody could say it's like, you know, I I looked at I was looking at WebMD, and it's like the so I don't bring that up as much, but the the normalcy and, like, the, generally, condition of just, like, that's not a big deal. Like, that's not something I'm Bro,

让我告诉你这个。让我告诉你这个。根据美国泌尿协会的数据，25%接受睾酮替代疗法(TRT)的患者从未检查过睾酮水平。三分之一的人甚至并不缺乏。我上周看到的。

let me give you this. Me give you this. According to the American Urological Association, twenty five percent of patients on TRT never had the testosterone checked. One third weren't even deficient. I saw that last week.

但是年龄 demographics 是怎样的？因为如果那仍然是，像，人们通常认为的正常年龄，比如35岁以上，我认为那和任何更早的情况都大不相同，因为你 literally 还是一个在发育中的家伙。你知道？就像，你那是你在瞎搞的东西，而不仅仅是，是啊，就是，你知道，随便啦。

But what's the age demographic? Because if that's if that's still, like, what somebody would conventionally say a normal age to be, like a 35 above, I think that's a much different situation than anything earlier because you're literally still a developing dude. You know? Like, you that's that is a thing that you are messing with, which is not just like, yeah, it's just, you know, whatever.

我们开始前聊到了你在增肌过程中遇到的一些健康挑战，以及这对你的感受产生的影响。你已经提到了活动能力的问题。作为一个年轻人，在如此短的时间内增加这么多体重，有哪些不为人知的副作用？

We were talking before we got started about some of the challenges you have health wise with bulking up and what that does to you, way that you feel. You've already mentioned mobility. What's what are some of the unseen side effects of gaining so much weight in such such a short space of time as a young dude?

是的。这个问题很有意思，因为某种程度上我想说的是你承载体重的方式。因为现在我是250磅（约113公斤），实际上经过这周的各种活动、饮食减少和旅行，我还轻了一点。但我仍然感觉非常轻盈。

Yeah. And it's, so that's one thing that's kind of interesting because there's this sort of I almost wanna say just what you would call your how you're carrying the weight that you're carrying. Because right now, I'm I'm, like, I'm two fifty. And I'm I'm actually a little bit lighter from this whole week of everything we've been doing and not eating as much food and traveling. But still, like, I feel very light.

我感觉自己并不特别沉重，因为在我的体重范围内——从最大增肌体重到较轻的碳水不足、可能稍微脱水的体重——我正处于这个区间的低端。而两年前，当我真正增重到250磅并且水分滞留严重时，感觉完全不同。比如弯腰穿鞋时，你会感觉几乎要屏住呼吸，因为压力太大，就像吃撑了肚子一样。

Like, I do not feel as though I'm I'm super heavy because in the range of, like, my big and bulked weight to, like, my lighter carb depleted, maybe a little less hydrated weight, like, I'm on the bottom end of that scale. Whereas, like, two years ago, for me to really bulk up to two fifty and be a very water retentive, like, it felt completely different. Like, bend over to put your shoes on and, like, you can feel you're like, oh, you almost hold your breath because there's so much pressure. Like, you had a you had a full stomach. Like, just things like that.

但体重变化真的很...我的意思是，它是如此渐进？不，是如此显著。因为我能说的任何事，比如坐飞机座位没问题。这还不是埃迪·霍尔、罗尼·科尔曼或布莱恩·肖那种级别的问题。

But the scale really could I mean, it's it's so gradual or no. It's so extensive. Because anything that I could say, like like, fit in an airplane seat fine. Like, I still that's not that's an Eddie Hall Mhmm. Ronnie Coleman Brian Shaw problem.

问题。是的。我虽然体型大，但仍然相对保持人形轮廓，你懂吗？

Problem. Yep. Yeah. Like, I'm big, but I'm still, like, relatively human shaped. You know?

肌肉没有超出我的骨架范围。举个很好的例子——德里克·伦斯福德。是的，我有时会提到他，因为他有着非常有趣的外形。你可以这样描述他：他拿一个普通精瘦身材的人，然后把肌肉比例直接拉满。

Like like, muscle does not exceed my frame. Like, if you looked at like, a very good example would be a Derek Lunsford. Yes. And I I'll I'll bring him up sometimes because he's got a really interesting look. Because you could basically describe him as you took a regular I mean, he took a regular lean guy, and he just dragged the muscle scale all the way to the max.

因为，我的意思是，有时候即使达到那种体型，它也会产生相应的影响。

Because, I mean, sometimes to even get to that size, like, it it it just has an effect.

方法是什么？

What's the way?

他肯定很重。我我不知道确切的术语，而且身高不同情况也不一样。所以一个六英尺三英寸两百磅的人和一个五英尺四英寸两百磅的人非常不同。所以他，嗯，他很重，但他体型大得离谱。对他来说，他有自己的问题——就像我们昨天在小组讨论时提到的，有人问：如果你因为体型太大需要改变睡眠习惯会怎样？

He's gotta be heavy. I I don't know any exact terms, and it's different when you're shorter too. So so someone who's six foot three at two hundred is very different than someone at five foot four at two hundred. So he's a well, he's heavy, but he's, like, crazy big. So for him, he's got his own that's where, like, when we were talking on our panel talk yesterday when the guy said, what if you had to change about your sleep from being so big?

像那些人肯定有自己的故事，或者可能需要工业级的CPAP呼吸机。我甚至说不准那是不是适合他们。

Like, those guys must have their own stories or, like, maybe they Industrial strength CPAP machine. I I can't even say that'd be for them.

是的。是的。是的。你怎么看待自律？我很好奇当动力不足时，你从哪里获取驱动力。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How do you think about discipline? I'm interested in where you go for drive when motivation's low.

是的。我想因为我通常不会在脑海里自我对话，比如告诉自己现在需要更自律。这可能是因为最初激励我开始的动机。就像，我从来不会把那句话当作我的座右铭。对于任何锻炼相关的事，我几乎觉得我有点虚伪，当我说通常的好动机时。

Yeah. I think because I don't usually think to my I never have self talk in my mind where I say, like, I need to be more disciplined right now. Be and it's maybe just because of what motivated me to get into in the beginning. Like, I just never like, that was never my mantra of a word. And with anything working out related, I I guess I almost feel like I'm on as like, sometimes I feel a little, hypocritical when I'll say, like, typically good motivation.