每本自助书中都隐藏的12个唯一教训 - Spencer Greenberg - #1161

或者你根本想不出一句好话来评价它。

Or you couldn't think of a single good thing to say about it.

你会怎么做？

What do you do?

这就是一个真正的价值观冲突。

And that's a genuine values conflict.

有些人会说，这很简单。

And some people are gonna say, Well, that's easy.

你直接说，哦，太棒了。

You just say, Oh, it was great.

另一些人会说，不，我更看重诚实，而不是照顾他们的感受。

And other people are gonna say, Well, no, I care about being truthful more than I care about protecting their feelings.

假设在这种情况下，他们不会从你这里学到什么大道理，如果你说演得烂，他们只会难过。

And suppose here that they're not gonna learn a great lesson from you, they're just gonna feel bad if you tell them it sucked.

所以，是的，现实会让我们的价值观冲突，努力也会让我们的价值观冲突。

So yeah, the world puts our values into conflict and effort puts our values into conflict.

你唯一能做的，因为那是你的价值观，是你真正在乎的东西，就是仔细反思，然后问自己：在这种情况下，我到底有多在乎这个，又有多在乎那个？

The only thing you can do, because they're your values, they're the things you care about, is you have to then carefully reflect and say, well, how much do I care about this thing versus this thing in this situation?

思想实验其实挺有用的。

And thought experiments can be really useful.

有时候你可以问自己：假如我知道，如果我告诉朋友他们的戏很烂，他们会哭三天，心都碎了，那还值得说吗？

Sometimes you can ask yourself, okay, suppose I knew that my friend was gonna cry for three days and be brokenhearted if I told them their play sucked.

那还值得吗？

Would it still be worth it?

你可以通过这种方式来摸索，搞清楚自己价值观之间的取舍。

And you could start to play with this to figure out the trade off between your values.

你就是在……

You're...

因为你在摸索自己的取舍曲线。

Because you're figuring out your own trade off curve.

本质上，这是一种自我反思。

Essentially, it's a form of introspection.

顺便说一句，如果你一直想要一个Eight Sleep床垫，但总觉得价格有点贵，那现在情况变得很有意思了。

A quick aside, if you wanted an eight sleep but could never quite justify the price, things just got very interesting.

他们居然同时做到了性能大幅提升和价格更便宜。

They've somehow managed to make it significantly better and cheaper at the same time.

全新Pod 6正式登场。

Introducing the brand new Pod six.

它现在体积小了50%，意味着能适配大多数床架，而且内置的传感器数量增加了九倍。

It's now 50% smaller, meaning it fits under most bed frames, and there are nine times more sensors built into it.

尽管有这么多升级，Pod 6的起售价仅为1999美元，这是Eight Sleep有史以来的最低起售价。

Despite all of these upgrades, the Pod six now starts at just $1,999, the lowest starting price Eight has ever offered.

最棒的是，Eight Sleep首次推出了单人尺寸，包括大床、特大床和加州特大床的单侧选项，而且还有30天的睡眠试用期。

Best of all, for the first time, Eight Sleep has introduced solo sizes, including single side options for queen, king, and California king beds, and they've got a thirty day sleep trial.

你可以买回去睡上29个晚上。

So you can buy and sleep on it for twenty nine nights.

如果不喜欢，他们会直接退款给你。

And if you don't like it, they'll just give you your money back.

而且他们还支持国际配送，所以别被那个货币金额吓到。

Plus, they ship internationally, so don't be scared by the currency amount.

现在，通过点击下方描述里的链接，或者访问8sleep.com/modernwisdom，并在结账时使用代码Modern Wisdom，你可以享受最高350美元的折扣。

Right now, you can get up to $350 off the pod six by going to the link in the description below or heading to 8sleep.com/modernwisdom and using the code Modern Wisdom at checkout.

网址是eightsleep.com/modernwisdom，结账时输入modernwisdom。

That's eightsleep.com/modernwisdomandmodernwisdom at checkout.

我觉得当人们想到个人发展、自我成长、自我提升、习惯养成时，习惯设定可能是最重要的。

I think when people think about personal development, self growth, self help, habit building, habit setting is maybe at the top.

肯定能排进前三。

It'd certainly be in the top three.

你测试了很多习惯养成的方法。

You tested a bunch of habit building techniques.

你学到了什么？

What'd you learn?

我们进行了一项关于习惯养成的大型研究。

We ran a giant study on habit formation.

这就像一场赛马，让各种技巧互相较量。

It was kind of like a horse race, pitting the techniques against each other.

你是那个试图植入习惯的人吗？

Were you the one that was trying to embed the habits?

不是。

No.

我们在几百人身上做了这个实验。

We ran it on hundreds of people.

我们选取了20种不同的习惯养成技巧。

So we took 20 different habit formation techniques.

我们对参与者进行了随机分组。

We randomized people.

每个参与研究的人从这20种技巧中随机获得5种，另外还有一个对照组。

So each person in our study got five out of the 20 and picked at random, plus it was a control group.

我们跟踪了他们一个月，看看谁更能坚持自己的习惯。

And we tracked them for a month to see who stuck with their habits better.

有趣的是，首先，几乎所有的技巧都没用。

And the fascinating thing was that almost none of the techniques worked, first of all.

我们确实找到了一些有效的方法。

We did find some things that worked.

那些最有希望的，我们实际上做了后续研究，针对那些最有效的方法。

The things that were most promising, we actually ended up doing a follow-up study with the things that most work.

我们把它们打包成一个你可以使用的套装。

We bundled them together into a package that you can use.

我们实际上称之为“每日仪式”。

We actually call it daily ritual.

这个在我们的网站clearething.org上也是免费提供的。

It's also available for free on our website, clearething.org.

但你可以使用这个有效的习惯包。

But you can use this habit packet that worked.

但有效的方法之一是，那种极其简单的方法，就是在一张纸上写下你的习惯，然后把它贴在你的办公室或家里的某个地方，上面写着：这是我的习惯。

But the things that worked were, one, the ridiculously stupid method of writing on a note up like a piece of paper and sticking it somewhere in your office or your home that just says, here's my habit.

这确实提高了人们坚持习惯的几率。

It actually increased people's sticking to their habits.

什么……

What...

有没有哪一类习惯，这种方法对它们更有效，或者效果更差？

Was there a particular category of habits that that worked more effectively for or less effectively for?

这种方法对容易健忘的人更有效，因为有些人就是能记住。

It tends to work for people that tend to be more forgetful because some people, they just are gonna remember.

对他们来说，记忆根本不是问题。

Memory is not even gonna be an issue.

但像我这样的人，就有点健忘。

But for people like myself, I'm kind of forgetful.

这方法可能对我很有用，每次路过看到提醒，就会想起来，哦对，我有这个打算。

That actually probably would help me just reminded every time I walk by, oh yeah, I have an intention to do that.

所以这个方法虽然有点傻，但确实有效。

So that was one that worked a little bit silly.

第二个有效的方法是一种挺有名的技巧，有时候叫“微习惯”或者类似的名字，就是为那些没法完成完整习惯的日子准备一个简化版。

A second that worked is kind of a famous technique, sometimes called tiny habits or similar names, is you make a version of your habit for days when you can't do the whole habit.

这个思路就是，你永远不会错过你的习惯，因为你可以用这个简化版来代替，而且没有任何借口不去做这个简化版。

And the idea is you never miss your habit because this tiny version, you're allowed to do instead, and there's no excuse ever to not do the tiny version.

你没去健身房。

You didn't get to the gym.

在你不去健身房的那天，做10个深蹲。

You do 10 squats on a day that you don't go to

健身房。

the gym.

对。

Exactly.

没有借口不做10个深蹲。

There's no excuse not to do 10 squats.

你应该每次都能做到。

You should be able to hit it every time.

这真的很棒的一点是，它有助于不打破这个循环。

And what's really cool about that is it helps not break the cycle.

所以形成习惯的心理机制永远不会被打断，这让习惯更容易坚持下去。

So the mental machinery of forming the habit never gets broken, which makes it stickier.

你可能会想，那人们会不会开始偷懒，就只做那个小版本呢？

And you might think, well, aren't people just gonna start cheating and just do that instead?

但在我们的研究中，他们实际上并没有这样做。

But in our study, they actually didn't.

尽管他们可以选择做小习惯，但他们在大习惯上反而更成功，这挺有意思的。

They actually were more successful with the big habit even though they had the option of doing the tiny habit, which is kinda fascinating.

你发现哪些习惯最适合用这种小习惯干预方法呢？

What are some of the best habits that you found the tiny habits intervention effective for?

我觉得它适合那些生活中确实有时会妨碍你去做的事情。

Well, I think it tends to be good for things where life really will get in the way sometimes of doing it.

然后你就会想，看吧。

And you're just like, look.

ChatGee太疯狂了。

ChatGee's just too crazy.

我没办法去健身房练三十分钟。

I cannot go to the gym for thirty minutes.

就是，根本不可能。

Like, it's just not gonna happen.

然后，对，就是那种计划泡汤的感觉。

And, you know, and, yeah, just having that that fall apart.

一分钟就行。

For one minute.

没错。

Exactly.

读一页书，半页，你那破诗，什么都行。

Reading a single page, half a page, your fucking poem, whatever.

对。

Exactly.

好的。

Okay.

所以你永远不会错过它。

So you're never gonna miss it.

但我告诉你，我们发现的最有效的技巧，也是我们研究中最有前景的一个，叫做习惯反思。

But I'll tell you the the most effective technique we found, the most promising one in our study was one that we call habit reflection.

它的运作方式是，你先想想过去你成功养成的一个习惯。

And the way it works is you first think about a habit you succeeded at in the past.

然后……

Then...

我建议你把它写下来。

And I I recommend you write it down.

你写下是什么帮助你成功的？

You write down what did you do that helped you succeed?

你有没有告诉朋友你打算尝试做这件事？

Did you tell your friend that you were gonna try to do it?

你有没有提前做好计划，让每天做起来都很容易？

Did you preplan it in advance so it's easy to do every day?

你做了什么有帮助的事情？

What did you do that helped?

最后一步是，你写下如何把过去养成那个习惯的经验，应用到新习惯上。

Then the final step is you write down, how can you apply what you learned from doing that past habit to this new habit?

所以这算是我们研究中比较突出的一个方法。

So that was sort of the one standout technique from our study.

你觉得这背后的原理是什么？

What do think is going on there?

这是自我适应。

It's self adapting.

很多习惯养成的方法，都假设你面临某种特定的挑战。

Many habit techniques, they assume you have a certain challenge.

微习惯这个方法很好，但它假设你的问题是某些天没时间去做。

Tiny habits is great, but it assumes that your problem is that you don't have time to do it some days.

所以每种技巧都有它适用的人群。

So every technique has a certain group that it works with.

把一个小记事本和你的习惯放在一起，如果你是个容易忘事的人，那这个方法很好。

Putting a little notepad with your habit, that's great if you're the sort of person that tends to forget.

但如果你不会忘，那它就没用了。

But if you don't forget, then it's not useful.

这个方法的妙处在于，它能自我调整。

What's cool about this, it's self adapting.

你只需要记住运用你学到的东西。

You're just remembering to use whatever it is you learned.

这就像适者生存，在你内心最有效的习惯会存活下来。

It's like survival of the fittest, survival of the most effective within yourself.

你就是那个系统。

You are the system.

你就是试验场。

You are the testing ground.

你已经把过去发生的事情都试过了。

You've AB'd whatever happened in the past.

真是吓人。

Shock horror.

如果以前对你有用，将来很可能也会有用。

If it worked for you previously, it'll probably work for you in the future.

但这也说明，人们好像并没有真正运用那些知识。

But it also shows that people, like, somehow are not applying that knowledge.

即使他们成功了，

Even though they succeed in

有证据表明以前有效，但出于某种原因，我现在把它抛弃了，然后去尝试新东西，那些看起来很酷的新东西。

evidence that this worked before, and for some reason, I've discarded it now, and I'm trying to do the new thing, the new sexy thing.

我想这就是个问题。

Now I guess that's a that's a question.

你之前提到过偏见。

You you talked about biases before.

你发现的情况里，有多少是大家其实已经知道该怎么做，或者已经有了想法，但就是不去执行，或者被更新的、更容易接触到的东西吸引走了？

How much of what you found is people already knowing what they should do or having an insight, but just not applying it or being seduced by something that's more recent, that's a little bit more available to them.

嗯，知道该怎么做这件事其实挺复杂的。

Well, knowing what you should do is a tricky thing.

比如说，你可以说，每个人都知道应该多锻炼。

So you could say, well, everyone knows they should exercise a whole bunch.

但也许这不是思考他们该做什么的最有用的方式。

But maybe that's not the most useful way to think about what they should do.

因为也许他们该做的，是找到一种对他们来说特别容易、而且他们真正喜欢的锻炼方式，而不是去尝试做那种“正确”的锻炼。

Because maybe what they should do is find a form of exercise that's incredibly easy for them that they really enjoy doing rather than trying to do the right form of exercise.

对。

Yep.

所以有时候，他们该做的事情，实际上是特别针对他们个人定制的，而不是最好的那件事。

So sometimes what they should do is is something that's actually super customized to them rather than the best thing.

而且我们可能会被诱惑，想要去做最好的那件事，即使它对我们并不起作用。

And and maybe we can get lured into wanting to do the best thing even if it's not working for us.

人们在设定目标时通常会犯什么错？

What do people get wrong about setting goals?

因为习惯和目标，通常来说，习惯是每天、每小时或每周的投入，推动人朝某个结果前进。

Because habits and goals, typically, a habit is a daily or, you know, hourly, weekly engagement to move somebody toward an outcome.

而目标感觉和价值观有点不同，更像是工具性的。

And goals feel slightly different to values, like sort of instrumental.

比如，我有这个价值观。

Like, I I have this value.

有这个目标，它像是一个具体的东西，通常会带我走向我重视的东西，但习惯不是目标，价值观也不是目标。

There's this goal, which is like a physical thing that's typically gonna get me towards something that I value, but habits also aren't goals and values aren't goals.

所以这是……

So is that...

是……

Is...

目标在这里值得单独讨论吗？

Does goals deserve its own set here?

当然。

Absolutely.

其实，我跟你讲讲我和合著者杰里米·史蒂文森写这本书时最大的分歧之一，就是他觉得思考价值观没那么有用，而我觉得这非常有用，而且我知道很多其他人也觉得有用。

Actually, I'll tell you about one of the biggest disagreements me and my coauthor Jeremy Stevenson had when writing the book, which is that he doesn't find thinking about values that useful, which I think I find it incredibly useful and I know many other people that do.

所以我们有点纠结，那该怎么办呢？

So we kinda had this, well, what do we do about that?

因为他说，我不知道。

Because he's like, I don't know.

我不确定这有没有用。

I don't know if it's that useful.

所以我就问，那你平时是怎么做的？

So I was like, well, how do you do it?

通过这次讨论，我们意识到有一组更广泛的东西，我们称之为你的指导基础。

And so through this discussion, we realized there's this broader set of things that we call your guiding foundations.

你的内在价值观是其中一部分，但还有你的原则，也就是你决定遵循的规则，用来帮助实现你的价值观。

Your intrinsic values is part of it, but also your principles, which are essentially the rules you decide to live by to help implement your values.

所以你可能会有一个原则，比如永远说实话，或者家庭优先。

So you might have a principle like always tell the truth or principle like family comes first.

这基本上就是提前决定你该怎么决策，这样你就能按照自己的价值观生活。

It's essentially pre deciding on how you're gonna make your decisions so that you live by your values.

最后一个是优先级。

And then the last one is priorities.

这些是你决定要关注的领域。

These are the areas that you're deciding to focus on.

你可以说，我接下来三个月要优先关注健康。

So you can say, I'm gonna prioritize health in the next three months.

我接下来三个月要优先关注家庭，不管是什么。

I'm gonna prioritize family in the next three months, whatever it is.

这就是你的指导基础。

So that's your guiding foundations.

关于指导基础，关键在于你永远无法完成它们。

And the thing about guiding foundations is you never complete them.

它们是持续进行的过程。

They're ongoing processes.

你只需要在余生中不断前进、前进、再前进。

You just keep going and going and going for the rest of your life.

目标与这些相关，但它们是……

Goals then relate to those, but they're...

就是……

It's...

但它们是不同的，因为目标是有终点的。

But are distinct because goals, they end.

你实现了一个目标。

You you achieve a goal.

这个目标就完成了。

You're done with the goal.

我认为人们常犯的错误是，他们没有把目标建立在指导原则之上。

My view is what people often get wrong is they don't build them on their guiding foundations.

你的目标应该建立在你的指导原则之上。

Your goals should be built out of your guiding foundations.

它们应该反映你最深层的价值观。

They should be reflective of your deepest values.

天哪。

Fuck.

这很复杂。

It's complex.

确实。

It is.

感觉这非常……

It feels it feels like very...

你不得不做450种不同的技巧，才能把它们精简并归类成12种，这并不让我意外。

It doesn't surprise me that you had to do, what, 450 different techniques in order to refine them down and bucket them into 12.

对，这确实不让我意外。

And, yeah, that that doesn't surprise me.

为什么关注恐惧很重要？

Why why is focusing on fear important?

我认识一些人从来不感到害怕，但更常见的是，很多人被恐惧所限制。

You know, I know some people that don't feel afraid ever, but much, much more common is that people are limited by fear.

而且这真的是个大问题，我觉得很多人如果能不让恐惧阻止他们去做自己觉得最有价值的事情，都会受益。

And it's just such a big problem that I would say many people could benefit from not letting fear stop them from the things they find most valuable.

我自己就是个很好的例子。

And I'm a perfect example of this.

我从小到大一直很焦虑，从童年开始就是这样。

I'm someone who was always anxious my whole life from childhood.

特别是有些情况对我来说简直是灾难。

And in particular, there were certain situations that were devastating to me.

如果我在派对上不得不去跟陌生人搭话，我的心会怦怦直跳。

If I had to go up to a stranger at a party, my heart would be pounding in my chest.

我的大脑在预测我会死掉。

My brain was predicting that I was gonna die.

显然，这很荒谬。

Now, obviously, that's ridiculous.

这完全就是傻。

It's totally silly.

作为一个受过教育、理性的人，知道世界是怎么运作的。

As a educated, rational person who knows how the world works.

而且我并不相信……

And I didn't believe...

当然，从理性层面我知道那是安全的，但我的大脑并不觉得安全。

On a reasoning level, of course, I knew it was safe, but my brain did not perceive it as safe.

如果你曾经对任何东西有恐惧症，不管是蛇、蜘蛛还是坐飞机，你都知道那种感觉。

And if you've ever had a phobia of anything, whether it's snakes or spiders or flying, you know what it's like.

你的大脑说，我知道那是安全的，但你的身体却完全失控，好像世界末日一样。

Your brain is like, I know that's safe, but your body is completely freaking out as though it's the end of the world.

最后，在我二十出头的时候，我对自己说，我必须做点什么来解决这个问题。

And finally, when I was in my early 20s, I said, I have to do something about this.

这太荒谬了。

This is ridiculous.

所以我去找了一位治疗师，找到了一位专门研究焦虑问题的专家。

So I went to find a therapist and I found a specialist who works on anxiety.

他说，斯宾塞，我可以帮你，但你不会喜欢的。

And he said, Spencer, I can help you, but you're not going to like it.

我该怎么做？

How am I going to do it?

我说，那我们该怎么做呢？

And I said, Well, how are we going to do this?

他说，你会有作业，每个周末独自去酒吧，跟五个陌生人聊天。

He said, you're gonna have homework to go to a bar every weekend alone, and you're gonna talk to five strangers.

对我来说，天哪，我做不到。

And for me, was, oh my God, can't do that.

那太疯狂了。

That's insane.

但我们从小事开始做起。

But we started small.

我们建立了一个所谓的恐惧等级表。

We built what's called a fear hierarchy.

恐惧等级表的最底层，是让你有压力但还能承受的事情。

The bottom of the fear hierarchy is something that's stressful to you, but bearable.

也就是一级。

So a one.

对我来说，那就是走上前去，简单地问别人现在几点了。

For me that was go up to people and simply ask what time it was.

做这件事的时候我很害怕，但我能应付得来。

And I was quite afraid doing this, but I could handle it.

恐惧程度不算太高。

It wasn't too much fear.

等那变得容易了，我们就进入下一级，也就是走上前去，对别人说，打扰一下，你喝的是什么？

And then when that got easy, we took it to the next level, which was going up to people and saying, excuse me, what is that you're drinking?

那看起来不错。

That looks good.

然后我们一步步往上加。

And we worked our way up.

到了最顶端的时候，真的变得特别疯狂。

All the way at the very top, it got really crazy.

最后的高潮是，我在曼哈顿的酒吧里，走到男人面前说，不好意思，能给我一个拥抱吗？

The final culmination of this is I went up to people at bars, and this was in Manhattan, and I said to men, excuse me, would you give me a hug?

天哪，真厉害。

And Fuck me.

太棒了。

That's brilliant.

我的天……

My my...

说实话，我当时觉得自己要死了。

Literally, thought I was gonna die.

我当时觉得……

Like, thought that...

不是……

Not...

但令人惊讶的是，我不仅没被人打脸，最糟糕的反应也就是人们笑笑或者说不行。

But amazingly, not only did I not get punched in the face, like, the worst reaction I had was people laughing or being like, no.

这真的很让人震惊。

And it was shocking.

这彻底改变了我。

It totally transformed me.

你得到了多少个拥抱？

How many hugs did you get?

我确实得到了几个拥抱。

I I definitely got a few hugs.

我确实得到了几个拥抱。

I definitely got a few hugs.

哦，那挺好的。

Oh, that's nice.

也许不是每个地方都行得通。

Maybe it wouldn't work out everywhere.

我不建议你这么做，得看你住在哪里。

Don't condone I don't condone doing that, depending on where you live.

但我的社交焦虑，感觉减轻了很多。

But my social anxiety, it felt dramatically.

当然，我现在有时候还是会有社交焦虑，但比以前好多了，简直不可思议。

And I certainly still have social anxiety sometimes today, but it's shockingly less than it was.

这一切大概发生在六个月内。

And it all took place over maybe six months.

现在有些场合，我和别人坐在一起，我会觉得，我好像比在场的人还不太焦虑。

And there's some situations today where I'm sitting in a room with people, and I'm like, I think I'm less socially anxious than the other people here.

这太棒了。

This is amazing.

这背后的原理是什么？

What is the principle that's underlying that?

这基本上和针对恐惧症的暴露疗法是一回事吗？

Is it basically the same thing as exposure therapy typically for phobias?

是的。

Yes.

所以就是暴露这个概念。

So it is this idea of exposure.

基本上，恐惧的运作方式是这样的：当我们接触到非常可怕的事情时，我们会开始把那些事情和恐惧联系起来，并进行模式匹配。

Basically, way fear typically works is that when we're exposed to really frightening things, we start associating that with frightening things and pattern match.

所以它会扩展到最初让我们害怕的那个事物之外。

So it extends beyond that initial thing that made us afraid.

比如说，你某天走在街上被人袭击了，那整个街区可能都会让你感到害怕，即使理智上你知道再次被袭击的可能性非常低。

So let's say you got assaulted while you were walking down the street one day, that whole neighborhood might be frightening to you, even if rationally you know the chance of you getting assaulted again is incredibly unlikely.

不幸的是，恐惧往往会扩散，尤其是当我们选择回避的时候。

And unfortunately, fear can tend to propagate, especially when we engage in avoidance.

所以假设你总是避开那个街区，你根本就不会靠近它。

So suppose that you always avoid that neighborhood, you just never will go near it.

然后你可能会开始避开它周围的区域，再周围的区域，这可能会变得很糟糕。

Now maybe you'll start avoiding even the areas around it and the areas around that, and it can be pernicious.

它会开始扩散。

It starts spreading.

这就是为什么恐惧对很多人来说是个大问题，因为它开始在你愿意做的事情周围划出界限，你开始避开所有这些有价值的事情。

And this is why fear can be such a big problem for so many people, because it starts carving these boundaries around what you're willing to do, and you start avoiding all these valuable things.

暴露疗法的基本想法是让你暴露在你害怕的事物面前，但是，这里有一点几乎所有人都忽略了，你必须避免使用安全行为。

And the basic idea of exposure therapy is you expose yourself to the things you fear, but, and here's something that almost everyone misses, you have to avoid engaging in safety behaviors.

安全行为就是我们在某些情境中为了让自己感觉好一点而做的事情，但它们会让大脑学到错误的规则。

So safety behaviors are things we do to make ourselves feel better in the situations, but they cause our brain to learn the wrong rule.

你能给我举个例子吗？

Can you give me an example?

我有一个朋友，他非常害怕坐飞机，但他经常坐飞机。

So I have a friend who is extremely afraid of flying, but he flies regularly.

这不是很奇怪吗？

Isn't that strange?

他怎么会害怕呢？

How could he be afraid?

比如说，他经常坐飞机，这不就是在做暴露疗法吗？

Like, wouldn't wouldn't he be doing exposure therapy by flying regularly?

但他飞了那么多次，应该早就克服恐惧了。

But by flying so much, he should have dissolved his fear.

没错。

Exactly.

但问题就在这里。

But here's the issue.

每次登机前，他都会不停地查看天气预报，确保天气完美，如果天气不好，他就会取消航班。

Right before he flies, he's constantly obsessively checking the weather reports to make sure that the weather is perfect, and he cancels his flight if it has bad weather.

所以他的大脑并没有学会坐飞机是安全的。

So his brain doesn't learn flying is safe.

他的大脑学到的是，天气完美时飞行才安全，而且我每次都仔细查看天气预报。

His brain learns flying is safe if the weather is perfect, and I carefully check the weather report every time.

所以这基本上阻止了他的大脑学会‘这件事实际上是安全的’这个规则。

So it essentially prevents his brain from learning the rule that the thing is actually safe to do.

这是一种脆弱性。

It's a fragility.

你这样做，是在给你的系统注入一种反韧性。

You're programming a kind of anti robustness into your system by doing that.

还有哪些其他的……

What are some other...

你能再举一个人们可能会做的安全行为的例子吗？

Can you give me another example of safety behavior that people might do?

好的。

Yes.

比如在社交焦虑中，你可能会采取提前离开活动的安全行为。

So in social anxiety, you might do a safety behavior of leaving event early.

就像，哦，我去参加聚会。

It's like, oh, I go to parties.

我去聚会的时候会感到社交焦虑。

I'm socially anxious when I go to parties.

为什么没有效果呢？

Why isn't it work?

但也许聚会进行到一半，你会想，好吧，我现在开始感到压力了。

But maybe halfway through the party, you're like, okay, I'm getting stressed out now.

我要走了。

I'm gonna leave.

或者，也许在和别人交谈时，当你感到社交焦虑时，你会开始对他们所有的笑话都笑，并且表现得过于友好。

Or maybe during during conversations with people when you're feeling socially anxious, you start laughing at all their jokes and being overly friendly.

这就是你的安全行为，因为你觉得，哦，如果我不这样做，他们会讨厌我。

And that's your safety behavior because you think, oh, if I don't do that, they're gonna hate me.

这很有意思。

That's interesting.

关于恐惧这件事，特别有意思的是，我真的觉得，如果你没有处理好恐惧，至少是生活中大部分领域的恐惧，它们就像你系统上的限速器。

What about the fear thing is fascinating because it it really does feel to me like if you haven't worked out fears in, at least a good chunk of them in most areas of your life, they are like a speed governor on your system.

有些东西你就是得不到。

There are certain things that you are going to be unable to get.

比如，你……

Like, you...

那个领地的概念很棒。

The territory idea is great.

地图上有些地方你就是探索不了。

There's certain bits of the map that are just gonna be inexplorable to you.

认知地图，世界地图。

The cognitive map, the world map.

我对亲密关系特别恐惧。

I'm, terrified of intimacy.

好的。

Okay.

那意味着亲密关系的世界对你来说就是关闭的。

Well, that means that the world of intimacy is not going to be open to you.

然后亲密关系下游的那些东西，也许意味着你不能组建家庭。

And then the world of stuff downstream from intimacy, maybe that means that you can't have a family.

也许意味着你连狗都养不了。

Maybe that means that you're not gonna be able to get a dog.

也许意味着所有这些事情都做不了。

Maybe that means, like all of these things.

我不得不认为，思考恐惧会强化恐惧，或者像你朋友那样谈论恐惧，某种程度上会过度纠结于它们。

I have to assume that thinking about fear reinforces the fear or talking about fears to some degree obsessing over them as your friend would have done.

他现在有了一个奇怪的祈雨仪式，上飞机前必须做。

He's now got this weird rain dance ritual that he has to do before he gets onto a plane.

人们怎么才能克服恐惧，又不会过度纠结到强化它们，最后变得完全痴迷呢？

How do people work through their fears without obsessing over them so much that they reinforce them and then become, like, completely obsessive about that?

如果我们说的是不危险的事情……

If we're talking about something nondangerous...

因为你不应该做暴露疗法，如果它真的很危险的话。

Because you shouldn't do exposure therapy for, like, it's truly dangerous.

比如，不要为了和危险的鲨鱼一起游泳而做暴露疗法。

Like, Don't do exposure therapy for swimming with dangerous sharks.

这完全没有道理。

This doesn't make any sense.

但如果我们说的是不危险的事情，第一步是确保你在理智上真的相信它不危险。

But if we're talking about something nondangerous, the first thing is to make sure that you really are on board intellectually that it's not dangerous.

这是我会开始的起点。

That's where I would start.

因为如果你确信飞行实际上极其危险，那你当然会害怕，这完全合理。

Because if you if you are convinced that flying is actually incredibly dangerous, well, of course you're afraid, that makes perfect sense.

所以第一步是处理这些认知，试着理解，这件事到底有多危险？

So the first thing is to work on the cognitions and try to understand, well, how dangerous is this thing really?

我在理智上真的相信这是安全的吗？

Do I intellectually buy into this being safe?

一旦你在理智上接受了它其实是安全的，剩下的就只是情绪上的问题了。这时候，真的不需要再想太多。

Once you've intellectually bought into it actually being safe, and now it's just an emotional thing, There, it's not really about doing lots of additional thinking about it.

关键是在可控的情况下让自己去面对恐惧，并且允许自己待在那种恐惧里。

It's really about exposing yourself in a controlled way and letting yourself sit with the fear.

有个特别极端的例子，但确实符合这个理论，而且我相当确定它真的会有效。想象一下，有个人特别怕蛇，结果掉进了一个满是无毒蛇的坑里。

A really crazy example, but it fits actually the theory, and I'm pretty sure it actually would work, is imagine someone is terribly afraid of snakes, and they fall into a pit of harmless snakes.

那些蛇没有伤害他。

The snakes don't hurt them.

他就待在那个蛇坑里。

They're in the pit of snakes.

你觉得要过多少小时他才会觉得无聊？

How many hours do think it'll be until they're bored?

靠。

Fuck.

十二个小时？

Twelve?

最终，他们肯定会觉得无聊。

Eventually, the thing is they will be bored.

就像，最后他们会想，哦，天哪。

Like, eventually, they're gonna be like, oh, fuck.

我迫不及待想离开这个坑。

I can't wait to get out of this pit.

对这些蛇感到无聊。

Bored of these snakes.

真希望它们咬我一口。

I wish they would bite me.

我的天哪。

Jesus Christ.

就像，你的大脑不可能一直处于恐慌状态。

Like, your brain just cannot freak out indefinitely.

对。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

顺便说一句，你可能听过我提到过LMNT，因为过去五年我每天早上都是这样开始的：一杯冷水加上LMNT。

A quick aside, you've probably heard me talk about LMNT before, and that's because I've started every single morning the same way for the last five years now, which is a cold glass of water with LMNT in it.

LMNT是一种电解质饮料，包含你所需的一切，不含任何多余的东西。

LMNT is an electrolyte drink mixed with everything that you need and nothing that you don't.

它采用科学配比的电解质，包含钠、钾和镁。

It's a science backed electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium.

无糖、无色素、无人工成分。

No sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients.

它能减少肌肉抽筋和疲劳，支持大脑功能，还能帮助调节你一整天的食欲。

It reduces muscle cramps and fatigue, supports brain function, and helps to regulate your appetite throughout the day.

我确实能感觉到吃和不吃之间的差别，这就是为什么我老是提它，也是为什么从安德鲁·胡伯曼医生到奥运运动员，再到FBI狙击队，大家都在用——好的狙击队，不是坏的那种。

I genuinely notice the difference when I take it versus when I don't, which is why I don't shut up about it and also why it's used by everyone, from doctor Andrew Huberman to Olympic athletes and FBI sniper teams, the the good sniper teams, not the bad ones.

而且，他们有无条件退款政策。

Also, they have a no questions asked refund policy.

所以如果你因为任何原因不喜欢，他们就会把钱退给你。

So if you don't like it for any reason, they'll just give you your money back.

另外，在美国还提供免费配送。

Plus, they offer free shipping in The US.

现在，你第一次购买时，可以通过点击下方描述中的链接，或者访问drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom，免费获得一份Element最受欢迎口味的试用装。

Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.

就是drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom。

That's drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.

几年前有人给我讲过一个关于动物暴露的故事，这算是暴露疗法中的黄金标准之一，我觉得。

Someone told me a story about this years ago that the same thing for animal exposure, which is kind of one of the gold standards for exposure therapy stuff, I think.

比如单一干预，相对简单的恐惧症，而且你基本上可以……

Like single intervention, relatively simple phobia, and that you can basically...

你可以逐渐增加剂量。

You can sort of titrate people up.

但假设过程中没有不良反应，你可以直接把某人扔进一个满是猫的房间，然后等着，比如锁上门，把他们留在里面，这非常不道德。

But assuming that there isn't an adverse event during it, you can just throw someone in a room filled with cats and just wait, like, lock the door, leave them in there, like, highly unethical.

但我想有些人可能会选择，好吧。

But I guess some people might choose to be like, alright.

我可以一步步接近这个东西，或者我也可以直接找一群人要拥抱。

I could step my way up to this thing, or I could just ask a bunch of people for a hug.

我想这样做的高风险副作用是，如果你要拥抱被拒绝了，你就退步了。

I suppose the high risk, side effect of this is that if you get a rejection on asking for the hug, you've now taken steps back.

所以这就是为什么你从暴露疗法开始。

So that's why you begin with the exposure therapy.

所以你学会了，好吧，这是安全的。

So you learn, okay, this is safety.

就算我退步了，我也是退回到一个更高的起点，因为被拒绝确实很痛，但我有了一些前进的动力。

And even if I fall back, I fall back to now a higher baseline because the rejection did hurt, but I have some degree of momentum which is moving me forward.

这位了不起的心理学家，实际上是把认知行为疗法推广给大众的人之一，他叫戴维·伯恩斯，我请他上过我的播客《清晰思考》。

This incredible psychologist who actually was one of the people that popularized cognitive behavioral therapy for the general public, His name is David Burns, and I had him on my podcast, ClearerThinking.

然后他……

And he...

我尽量凭记忆讲，但他讲的那些疯狂的故事里，他用的是那种一次性的暴露疗法，有时候也叫“洪水法”。

I'll try to do this from memory, but he tells these crazy stories where he uses these one shot exposures, sometimes called flooding.

如果我没记错的话，有个病人特别害怕被污染，他就把她带进卫生间。

And if I recall correctly, it was a patient who was terribly afraid of contamination, and he brings her into the bathroom.

他说，好，我们来舔马桶圈。

He's like, okay, we're gonna lick the toilet seats.

天哪，我听说过这个。

Oh fuck, I've heard about this.

我们要舔马桶圈。他说，我先来。

We're gonna lick the toilet He's like, I'll do it first.

你愿意的话，我就愿意。

I'll do it if you do it.

所以他有很多这种惊人的故事，但通常不推荐这么做。

And so he has these incredible stories, but it's generally not recommended.

当然，如果你有专家在场，那是另一回事。

Obviously, when you're with an expert, that's one thing.

你可以决定专家能得到什么。

Like, you can decide what the experts get.

但通常不推荐，因为人们往往会吓坏，然后逃离现场，这反而会强化他们的恐惧。

But but it's generally not recommended because people often freak out and run out of the situation, and that can reinforce their fear.

所以你真的必须坚持下去。

So you really have to stay with it.

那精神状态呢？

What about mental states?

人们如何控制自己的状态来掌控表现？

How do people control the state that they're in to control their performance?

你是说当你情绪失控的时候？

You mean if you're feeling emotionally dysregulated?

这挺有意思的。

So it's interesting.

当人们情绪非常失控的时候，通常把注意力放在身体之外会非常有帮助。

When people are really highly emotionally dysregulated, often grounding outside of the body is really, really helpful.

有一个很简单的技巧，就是看三样东西，注意三样你身外的东西，再听三种声音，然后感受身体里的三种感觉，在这些之间来回切换。

So there's a very simple technique where you simply look at three things, notice three different things outside of yourself, you notice three things that you can hear, and then you notice three things in your body, and you switch between these.

这样能让你从脑海中抽离出来，因为当你情绪非常失控时，脑子里往往一片混乱，暂时离开那里会让你感觉好一些。

And it grounds you outside of your mind because when you're feeling really emotionally dysregulated, often there's chaos going on in your mind, and you actually get out of there to temporarily feel better.

然后专注于我身外的东西。

And focus on that outside of me.

我会先专注于我身上的这个，然后再专注于我体内的这个。

I'm gonna focus on this that's on me, and then I'm gonna focus on this that's in me.

如果这招不管用，还有更深入的方法。

And then if that doesn't work, there are more intensive techniques.

比如，你可以给自己来点刺激。

Like, you can kind of shock yourself.

所以呢……

And so what...

不是用电，而是用……

Not with electricity, but with...

比如说，可以用冷水。

For example, you could do it with cold water.

就是往自己脸上泼点冷水，瞬间就能把你从情绪混乱中拉出来。

So just splashing yourself with super cold water briefly actually can suddenly shock you out of emotional disruption.

这挺有意思的。

That's interesting.

这是不是跟哺乳动物潜水反射有关？

Is that mammalian dive reflex adjacent stuff?

有意思。

Interesting.

所以……

So...

因为，我……

Because I I...

可能是因为哺乳动物潜水反射，当你在冷水中时，它会降低你的呼吸频率，据我所知是这样。

You know, it may be because I think the mammalian dive reflex, which triggers when you're in cold water, does lower your respiratory rate as I understand it.

所以这可能和那个有关。

So it might be related to that.

但这个技巧，据我所知，最初是为边缘型人格障碍患者开发的，因为这类患者情绪很容易失控。

But this was a technique that it was developed as far as I understand it for people with borderline personality disorder because people with that disorder tend to be very emotionally dysregulated easily.

所以他们必须想出一些技巧，比如，你该怎么办？

And so they had to figure out techniques like, what do you do?

因为当一个人情绪如此失控时，你没法和他对话或讲道理。

Because you can't have a conversation and reason when a person is in such a dysregulated state.

所以你需要给他们一些事情做。

So you need to give them something to do.

往他们身上泼水。

Throw water at them.

嗯，你

Well, you

有一个……

have a...

你教他们

You teach them to

自己去做。

do it for themselves.

我往他们身上扔水桶。

Me throw the bucket at them.

我觉得那可能会让他们更生气，但你是教他们自己去做。对。

I think that probably makes them more upset, but you teach them to do it for themselves Yep.

这样他们就能用它来，嗯，摆脱那种状态。

So they can use it to kind of, yeah, come out of that state.

你觉得有多少本自助书其实只需要说动动身体、出去走走就够了？

How many self help books do you think should have just said move your body and go outside?

这得看情况，看人。

Well, you know, it depends on it depends on the person.

看你的目标是什么。

It depends on your goals.

对。

Yes.

有很多人只要动动身体、出去走走就能受益。

There are so many people that would benefit from just like move your body, go outside.

百分之百。

100%.

但如果你抑郁了，这样能解决问题吗？

But if you're depressed, is that gonna solve your problems?

也许会有帮助，但只是一点点。

Maybe it'll it'll help a little bit.

但你为什么会抑郁呢？

But why are you depressed?

真正的原因是什么？

What's really going on?

是不是因为你觉得自己毫无价值、不值得被爱？

Is it because you think you're ultimately worthless and unlovable?

好吧，也许你动动床、出去走走会感觉好一点，但很可能解决不了根本问题。

Well, okay, you might feel a little better moving your bed and going outside, but it's probably not gonna solve the underlying issue.

所以我的看法是，有很多有效的方法，我们需要在合适的时间，为合适的人，选择合适的方法。

So my view is that there are a number of kind of powerful techniques, and we need to know the right one, the right time for the right person.

关于身心关系，你学到了什么？

What did you learn about the relationship, body, mind?

我们的身心有很多方式相互影响、相互作用。

So there's so many ways that our mind and body kind of affect each other and interact.

一个非常有趣的现象是，当我们焦虑或压力大时，往往会绷紧肌肉。

And a really fascinating one is that when we're anxious or stressed, we tend to tense our muscles.

这大概是因为肌肉紧张是在为战斗或逃跑做准备。

And presumably this is because tensing your muscles prepares you to fight, prepares you to run.

但你会发现，长期焦虑的人往往会有脖子疼、肩膀疼、腰疼的问题。

But you then find that people who have chronic anxiety will have neck pain, shoulder pain, lower back pain.

因为实际上就是这种长期的焦虑在影响身体。

So because it's actually this chronic anxiety impinging on the body.

他们可能会花好几年时间，试图通过手术之类的方法来解决背痛，结果最后发现，天哪。

And they might go out and spend years trying to solve their back pain with surgery or something like that only to discover, oh, shit.

这其实就是长期焦虑导致的肌肉紧张。

It's like literally muscle tension from chronic anxiety.

当然不是总是这样，但有时候确实如此。

Not always, obviously, but but sometimes it is.

所以这挺神奇的。

And so it's kind of remarkable.

但反过来也一样，这也很令人着迷。

But it can also go the other way too, which is fascinating.

有一种方法叫渐进式肌肉放松，就是交替地绷紧和放松不同的肌肉群。

So there's a method called progressive muscle relaxation where you alternately tense and relax different muscle groups.

每做完一次绷紧和放松，你就会慢慢感受到那种放松的感觉。

After each one, tensing and relaxing, you kind of, like, feel into the relaxation of it.

这个方法反过来也有效。

And it works in reverse.

通过放松身体，实际上也能让大脑放松下来，就像紧张的大脑往往会导致身体紧张一样。

By relaxing your physical body, it actually starts to relax your mind just the way a tense mind tends to produce a tense physical body.

我觉得很多NSDR跟这个很相似。

I think a lot of NSDR is similar to that.

比如瑜伽休息术、身体扫描之类的。

Yoga Nidra, body scan type things.

你会发现自己即使躺在地上，眉毛、下背部或者其他地方还是藏着很多紧张。

And you're realizing just how much tension was held in your eyebrows, right, or in your lower back or something despite the fact that you're laid on the ground.

如果把它作为冥想练习的入门，比如，好，我要开始扫描我的身体了。

If you do classically as an entrance into a meditation set, okay, so I'm gonna scan through my body.

而且有些地方很奇怪，我的右前臂就莫名其妙地特别紧张。

And there are weird places that you go, I I had loads of tension in, like, my right forearm for no reason.

然后你……

And you...

它就一直那样待着。

It's just, like, ambiently sat there.

除非你注意到它，否则你真的不会察觉。

And until you pay attention to it, you don't really notice it.

我前几天出于好奇刚试了一个技巧，就是找到你身体最紧张的那个点。

A technique I just started exploring just the other day out of curiosity, it was one where you find the point of your body that has the most tension.

你试着放松它。

You try to relax it.

然后再找下一个最紧张的点。

Then you try to find the next point that has the most tension.

再放松它。

You relax it.

你就这样一步步来。

You kinda work your way through.

还挺有意思的。

It's kinda interesting.

那挺有趣的。

That's fun.

我想很多对这类东西感兴趣的人，最需要克服的一大困扰就是想太多、把事情搞复杂、脑子里冒出各种杂念，还有反复琢磨。

I imagine that a lot of the people who are into this sort of stuff, one of the biggest afflictions that they need to get past is overthinking, that, overcomplication, intrusive thoughts, rumination.

关于怎么对抗想太多本身，你学到了什么？

What did you learn about how to combat overthinking itself?

这里有个挺有意思的分叉。

So there's an interesting bifurcation here.

有些策略是用思考来对抗思考。

There's strategies that try to combat thinking with thinking.

对某些容易想太多的人来说，这反而可能是个问题。

For some people with overthinking, that can be a problem.

比如有强迫症的人，如果试图用思考来对抗思考，可能会出问题。

Like people with obsessive compulsive disorder, trying to go that route of combating thinking with thinking can be problematic.

还有一种方法是用不思考来对抗思考。

And then there's trying to combat thinking with not thinking.

如果走这条路，有一种方法叫“解离”，就是试着把想法从自己身上剥离开来。

And so if we're taking that route, there's methods known as diffusion where you're trying to take the thought, diffuse from it.

也就是说，你注意到自己有一个想法。

So you're noticing you're having a thought.

你从它那里抽离出来，把自己和它分开，从外部视角来看待它。

You're diffusing from it, like separating yourself from it and viewing it from an outside perspective.

举个例子，假设你有一个想法：“我真没用。”

So an example is, suppose you have the thought, I suck.

“我真不敢相信我做了那件事。”

I can't believe I did that.

你可以注意到：“哦，我刚才有了这个想法。”

You can notice, oh, I just had this thought.

那不是现实。

That's not reality.

那只是关于某件事的一个想法。

That's just a thought about a thing.

想法不一定总是对的。

A thought is not always true.

想法只是我脑海中的一个过程。

A thought is a process in my mind.

它并不是实际情况的真相。

It's not the reality of the situation.

一旦你跳出这个想法，你就可以对它做些什么。

And then once you've stepped outside of it, you can do things with it.

你可以放手。

You can let it go.

你可以想象它随着云朵飘走。

You can imagine it drifting away on the clouds.

你可以拿它开玩笑。

You can make fun of it.

真的，有……

There's literally...

我们在书《十二个爱人》里提到的最搞笑的方法之一，就是你可以对着你的想法唱生日快乐歌，或者用……

One of the most ridiculous techniques that we talk about in our in our book, the 12 lovers, is you can literally sing the happy birthday song to your thought or use...

用那种傻乎乎的达菲鸭声音对你的想法说话。

Do a silly Daffy Duck voice to your thought.

因为关键就是找到距离感，然后说，对，

Because the idea the idea is just finding separation and saying, yeah.

我有“我很差劲”这个想法，但这不代表我真的差劲。

I have the thought that I suck, but it doesn't mean I suck.

那真的只是一个想法而已。

That is literally just a thought.

而且有些人真的觉得这很有用，特别是那些想太多、试图用思考来解决思考的人，也许问题就出在这里。

And some people actually find this really useful, especially people who are overthinking and and trying to engage in thinking with thinking maybe is part of the problem.

这挺有意思的。

That is interesting.

我觉得过度思考的一个大问题就是，认为过度思考是有用的。

I guess a good bit of the problem with overthinking is thinking that overthinking is useful.

比如，相信如果我做得更多，某种结果就会……

Like, believing that if I do this more, some sort of outcome will...

某种好的结果、理想的结果就会在另一边出现。

Some beneficial outcome, desirable outcome will will happen on the other side.

担心也是一样。

The same with worry.

我会担心，这会在某种程度上给我一些控制感，或者对未来的掌控感、主权感，减少不确定性之类的。

I'm I'm gonna worry, and that's gonna give me some degree of maybe control or a sense of ownership or sovereignty about the future, reduce uncertainty or whatever.

所以，是的，它变成了……

So, yeah, it become...

即使它实际上从来都不有效，但在那一刻它可能会感觉有效。

Even if it never actually becomes effective, it can feel effective during the moment.

焦虑比较严重的人往往对焦虑有一些适得其反的看法。

People with a lot of anxiety tend to have these beliefs about anxiety that are counterproductive.

比如说，他们往往觉得焦虑和担心是很紧急的事情。

For example, they tend to believe that anxiety and worry is urgent.

一旦有了担心，就必须马上处理它。

If you're having the worry, you have to worry about it now.

他们还往往觉得除了担心，自己什么都做不了。

They also tend to believe that they can't do anything other than worry about it.

就好像，我真的没办法不去担心。

Like, literally I'm not capable of not worrying.

而且他们往往觉得担心真的很有价值。

And they tend to believe it's really Like, oh, it's really valuable that I'm worrying.

如果我不担心，就会出坏事。

If I didn't worry, something bad would happen.

有一种技巧其实不太为人所知，但我很喜欢，有时候叫“担心时间”。

And there's this technique that is really not well known, but that I love that sometimes called the worry time.

这个方法就是，你选一个时间，比如下午五点。

And the way it works is you pick a time of day, let's say 5PM.

不要选在睡觉前。

You don't wanna pick before bed.

这点很重要。

That's important.

就定在下午五点。

Say 5PM.

然后一整天里，每次你感到担心，如果还没写下来，就把它记下来。

And throughout your whole day, every time you have a worry, you write that worry down if you haven't yet written down.

比如说，你担心，哎呀，明天我的项目会不会顺利。

So let's say you have the worry, oh, no, I don't if my project's gonna go well tomorrow.

这个担心你还没记过，所以你就写下来。

You haven't had that yet, so you write it down.

下次再有同样的担心，就不用再写了。

The next time you have that worry, you don't write it down.

你每天只写一次。

You're just gonna write it once per day.

然后关键是，你不能一直担心它。

And then the idea is you're not allowed to worry about it.

你得等到下午五点。

You have to wait till 5PM.

所以基本上你是在批量处理。

So you're essentially batch processing.

你告诉自己，我得把担心推迟到下午五点。

You're saying, I have to defer my worry until 5PM.

如果它一直冒出来，你就说，不行，我得等到五点。

And if it keeps coming back, you just say, nope, I need to wait till 5PM.

然后到了五点，你就尽情担心你写下来的那些事。

And then when 5PM rolls around, you worry as much as possible about all those things you wrote down.

高强度担心训练。

High intensity worry training.

有趣的是，首先，人们开始意识到，我对自己担忧的控制力似乎比我想象的要强。

And the really funny thing that happens is that first of all, people start to realize, I seem to have more control over my worry than I thought.

是的，我的担忧可能会不断回来，但我可以不断转移注意力，告诉自己，我下午五点再担心。

Yes, my worry might keep coming back, but I can keep just redirecting and say, I'm gonna worry about it at 5PM.

第二，当他们到了担忧时间，坐下来试图真正担心这些事情时，他们常常会觉得，这没什么用。

Second, when they get to the worry time and they sit down and try to really worry about all this stuff, they often are like, This is not that useful.

我在这儿干嘛呢？

What am I doing here?

这太荒谬了。

This is ridiculous.

这让人意识到担忧其实没什么帮助。

It calls it out as not that helpful.

然后当你担心了十五到二十分钟后，你可以转向解决问题，问自己，我该怎么处理这些事情呢？

And then when you finish worrying for fifteen to twenty minutes, you can then transition to the problem solving and say, well, what am I gonna do about this stuff?

让我挑一个担忧，制定一个行动计划来尝试改善它。

Let me pick one of these worries and actually create an action plan to try to improve it.