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为什么《奥德赛》这么重要？
Why is The Odyssey such an important story?
因为它影响了很多人。
Well, it's a story that has affected a lot of people.
我觉得是因为它涉及了那些非常普遍的主题和问题。
I think because it has all of these really universal themes and problems that it that it relates to.
其实好的文学作品都这样，但《奥德赛》可能特别典型。
I mean, any good literature does that, but maybe The Odyssey in particular.
诺兰就说，这是一部原型故事，几乎贯穿了他拍的所有电影。
I mean, Nolan talks about it as this sort of archetypal story that is somehow in all of the movies that he's done.
比如回家的主题，为了集体做出牺牲。
You know, there's there's a theme of returning to your home, sacrificing on behalf of the community.
我觉得《奥德赛》特别有现实意义的一点是——虽然不确定电影会不会深入讲这个——它讲的是父权制的崩溃与重建，以及重建需要什么，这在今天看来还挺贴切的。
One of the things that I think is really timely about The Odyssey, and I don't really know how much, the movie's gonna get into this, but it's kind of a story about the collapse of the patriarchy and how it gets restored, what it what it takes to restore that, which, you know, maybe is is is timely for our day.
谁写的？
Who wrote it?
所以，简短回答就是荷马。
So Homer is is the short answer.
荷马是谁？
Who's Homer?
荷马是古希腊人认为的《伊利亚特》和《奥德赛》的作者。
Homer Homer is the author, according to the Greeks, of The Iliad and The Odyssey.
这两部诗作，现代学者们常常争论，到底是不是一个人写的？
These two poems that, you know, modern scholars will kind of quibble about was was it one guy?
是两个人吗？
Was it two guys?
还是一群人共同传承、合作完成的？
Was it a whole kind of crowd of men working or, you know, people working in this tradition?
这个话题我们稍后可以再细聊。
And and we can get into that a little bit.
但总的来说，荷马被公认为这位天赋异禀的史诗吟游诗人。
But essentially, Homer is the attributed author who is this semi semi a very blessed epic bard.
他是一位史诗诗人，这对古希腊人来说是一种非常特殊的存在。
He's he's an epic poet, and this is a really special type for the Greeks.
史诗诗人是其中一类，古希腊人还会有其他诗人吟唱不同类型的歌谣，对他们而言，诗歌和音乐是紧密相连的，背后有很多有趣的原因。
The the epic poet is, and there are other poets that sing other kinds of songs and poetry and song are very aligned in in the in the Greek mind and there's a lot of interesting reasons for that.
传统上，他被描绘成一位盲人吟游诗人，可能生活在公元前八世纪。
But, he's traditionally conceived of as this blind bard, who lived maybe in the eighth century BC.
对我来说，《伊利亚特》和《奥德赛》最引人入胜的一点是，它们在某种程度上彼此呼应——古希腊人正是在公元前八世纪左右才开始掌握书写。
And the the fascinating thing for me about The Iliad and The Odyssey, which kind of, you know, are in dialogue with with each other on some level is, okay, the Greeks discover writing in the eighth century BC.
他们从腓尼基人那里借鉴了文字，稍作修改，做了一些改进。
They they they sort of steal it from the Phoenicians and and modify it a little bit, make some improving tweaks.
所以，他们第一次真正能把自己的语言写下来，就是在公元前七百年左右。
So so the first time that they can really write down their language is this, you know, seven hundreds BC.
就在这个时候，突然出现了两部人类文学史上最伟大的作品。
And, you know, out of the blue emerges two of the greatest works of literature ever written.
很多人认为，它们就是最伟大的。
Many people think the greatest.
而且这或许并不是一种衰退，但人们总是觉得……
And it's all kind of maybe not decline from that, but everybody's always
第一张专辑真的很难超越。
The first album was really difficult to follow-up.
没错。
Right.
这就像是，假如今天我们还在讨论有史以来第一部电影一样。
It's it's almost like, you know, what if today we were still talking about the first movie ever made?
没人能超越《大都会》或者《诺斯费拉图》这类作品，可能现在还有人这么想。
Nobody's nobody's ever gonna top, you know, Metropolis or, Nosferatu or, you know, and there's probably still people today that think that.
但大多数人会说，电影这门艺术其实已经进步了不少，整个电影文化也变得更好了。
But, you know, most would say that we've we've developed a little bit as, you know, as as a the the movie culture has gotten somewhat better.
但说到荷马，这些作品突然出现，简直就像直接从宙斯脑子里蹦出来一样，实在令人惊叹。
But, you know, for for the case of Homer, it's it's kind of amazing that these things kind of emerge, you know, straight from the mind of Zeus almost.
它们一出现就完整成型，充满极其丰富的层次，情感共鸣强烈，内涵深厚，处处蕴含象征意义。
It fully forms with all these incredibly rich layers and they they're so resonant and they have this depth to them, all these like symbolic aspects of them.
那这到底是怎么发生的呢？
And, how did that happen?
我觉得这是个特别有意思的问题。
I think it's a really interesting question.
有没有什么证据表明，这个故事在他之前就存在了？
Is there any indication that this story existed before him?
这故事是他原创的吗？
It his story?
关于这一点，背景是这样的：如果你仔细看荷马的语言和主题，你会发现，虽然用的是希腊语，但希腊语属于印欧语系。
So the the backstory of this is, if you look at Homer and look at his language and look at the themes in it, alright, it's it's it's in Greek, but Greek is an Indo European language.
所有的印欧语系语言，都源自一群来自中亚草原的印欧人，他们迁徙扩张，征服了广大地区。
All of the Indo European languages derive from the Indo Europeans, this this steppe people from the Middle Central Asia that went spread out and conquered all these regions.
其他印欧语系的语言还包括拉丁语、凯尔特语、日耳曼语，还有印度的梵语等等。
And, you know, other Indo European languages include Latin and, Celtic and Germanic, also Indian or or Sanskrit, basically.
印度次大陆的族群同样继承了这种印欧文化传统，尤其是在北印度地区。
The the the Indic peoples also are they have this Indo European kind of cultural inheritance, especially in Northern India.
而且
And
以前这些人被称为雅利安人，现在呢，一些网络上的极端分子还是喜欢用这个词来称呼他们。
it's the people that they used to be called the Aryans and now, you know, Twitter Anans will call it call them Aryans.
如果你仔细看荷马的语言和主题，就会发现它们和《摩诃婆罗多》的吠陀史诗传统有着非常明显的相似之处。
But, you know so so if you look at Homer's language and themes, you can find very striking recognizable patterns in the Vedic epic tradition of the Mahabharata.
这背后其实存在一个共同的源头，一种共享的诗歌传统。
And there's there's a kind of common ancestor, a common poetic tradition.
所以有人提出这个观点，我觉得非常有道理，它能追溯到几千年前。
So the argument goes, and I think it's really right, that goes back thousands of years.
荷马的故事在某些方面确实是希腊独有的，但它们也承载着几千年来口传文化的积淀，直到大约公元前八世纪才被写成文字。
So Homer's stories are uniquely Greek on some level, but they're also kind of developments that have been around for thousands and thousands of years of oral culture that kind of hits writing right around the eighth century.
这其实是几千年来无数故事的精华提炼。
And it's a kind of distillation of, you know, thousands of years of stories.
特洛伊战争和希腊英雄们的故事，很可能在荷马之前就已经流传了数百年之久。
And and, you know, the stories of the Trojan War and the Greek heroes probably go back at least hundreds of years before Homer in there.
关于他是不是盲人，还有其他什么需要了解的吗？
Is there there anything else to know about was he blind?
他是不是人们以为的那个人？
Was he who people think he is?
古代的诗人啊，
Well, ancient poets,
我们对那些非常古老的希腊诗人，通常了解得不多。
we don't know a lot about their lives typically, the the really ancient Greek ones.
所以后来的希腊人常常会从文本里找线索，试图弄清楚这些人是谁。
And so people often like later Greeks would look at clues to try to figure out who these guys were.
人们认为荷马是盲人，其中一个原因就是《奥德赛》里有个盲目的吟游诗人，叫得摩多库斯。
And there's actually the one of the reasons, people think Homer is considered a blind poet is because there's actually a blind epic bard in The Odyssey that, his name's Demodocus.
他出现在第八卷，看起来就像是《奥德赛》里荷马自己的一个化身。
He appears in book eight, and he seems to be a kind of Homer figure in The Odyssey itself.
就像文艺复兴时期的画家会把自己画进作品里一样。
Same way as painters in the Renaissance would paint themselves into their works.
是的
Yeah.
确实就是这样一种情况。
Very much that's that sort of thing.
而且，人们认为是众神夺走了他的视力，却赐予了他更深层的洞察力，让他能看透宇宙的奥秘和人类的苦难等等。
And, you know, the idea is that the the gods have robbed him of his sight, but they've given this deeper vision into the mysteries of the universe and human suffering and so forth.
好的。
Alright.
给我讲讲这个故事吧。
Tell me about the story.
后来发生了什么？
What happens?
我是说，我想深入聊聊情节和细节，不过故事本身其实挺简单的。
So if I mean, I wanna get into the narrative, and the details, but, you know, the story is pretty simple.
背后有个背景故事。
There's a backstory.
你可能听说过特洛伊战争。
You might you might have heard the Trojan War.
这场战争发生在诗歌故事开始之前。
That happens before the poem begins in the in the poem's chronology.
十年的特洛伊战争，起因是海伦——她既是特洛伊的海伦，也是斯巴达的海伦——被特洛伊花花公子王子帕里斯拐走，带到了特洛伊，从斯巴达的墨涅拉俄斯身边把她抢走了。
But, you know, ten years of war at Troy, the the cause of war was Helen of Troy or Helen of Sparta was was, seduced by this playboy Trojan prince Paris, and he spirited her way to to Troy, stole her away from the Greeks, Menelaus of of of Sparta.
于是希腊人集结了一支庞大的军队，目的就是把她夺回来，顺便也捞点战利品。
And the, you know, the Greeks assembled this massive army to go and take her back essentially and get some plunder along the way.
十年后，他们终于攻破并摧毁了特洛伊城。
They after ten years, they finally end up sacking and destroying the city.
在希腊人眼中，尤其是《奥德赛》里，这场胜利的真正功臣是奥德修斯，因为是他想出了木马计。
And the man responsible for the victory ultimately in in the Greek's eyes and certainly in the eyes of the Odyssey is Odysseus himself because he came up with the idea of the Trojan horse.
对。
Mhmm.
这个计策就是他的主意。
And that was that was his idea.
这事儿是哪一年发生的？
What year was this?
所以呢，这事可能发生过，也可能没发生过。
And So this is, you know, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't.
我倾向于相信一种更天真的说法。
I I like to ascribe to the school of higher naivete.
你知道，我们也没法证明它不存在。
You know, we can't disprove it.
不如就说，也许真有那么回事吧。
Like, let's just say, maybe maybe it's maybe something like that happened.
对。
Yep.
关于这个有很多争论，但时间大概是在公元前1200年左右。
And there's there's a lot of debates about this, but it would have been 1,200 BC.
好的。
K.
大概吧。
Roughly.
这其实是现实元素和大量神话的结合，既想把故事扎根于现实，又想把它扩展成更宏大的想象。
So there's it's a combination of maybe some real world stuff with lots of mythology trying to sort of root something in reality, but then also build it out into a bigger imagination.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得更好的方式是
I think it's better to
把荷马的作品看作历史小说，而不是纯粹的虚构。
think of Homer as historical fiction rather than just, like, pure fiction.
这确实也是古希腊人看待它的方式。
That's that's certainly how the Greeks would have thought about it.
他们普遍相信特洛伊战争确实发生过。
Like, they believe that the Trojan War happened for the most part.
但没人会说，事情完全像荷马讲的那样发生了。
And none none of them are gonna say, you know, it happened exactly like Homer told the story.
但他们相信这件事真的发生过，而荷马生活在公元前八世纪，却在描绘四百年前的这场冲突。
But they they thought it happened, and Homer's in the eighth century imagining this conflict four hundred years earlier.
明白了。
Okay.
所以这相当于一个续集。
So it's a sequel in kind.
它是对这个可能真实、也可能不完全如我们所想的史诗神话的延续。
It's a a story sequel to this epic myth that may have may have happened, may not have happened quite the way that we think it does.
所以故事发生在十二月左右。
So this is set in about December.
对。
Right.
对。
Right.
是的。
Yeah.
《奥德赛》算是《伊利亚特》的续篇，而《伊利亚特》篇幅更长一些。
And and it The Odyssey is kind of a sequel to The Iliad, which is a longer, somewhat longer poem.
这个故事讲的是特洛伊城本身发生的事。
And, you know, this is a story about what happens at Troy itself.
那里最大的英雄是阿喀琉斯。
Achilles is the big hero there.
famously，阿喀琉斯是被帕里斯射中脚踝死的——那是他全身唯一脆弱的地方，而那时特洛伊城还没被攻下。
And famously, Achilles dies, you know, Paris shoots him in the heel and his Achilles heel, the only vulnerable spot on him, before the the city actually gets taken.
不过阿喀琉斯并没有在《伊利亚特》里死去，但他的死早就有所暗示。
And so, you know but Achilles doesn't die in the Iliad, but his death is kind of hinted at.
《奥德赛》则接在《伊利亚特》结束十年后展开，其实是在跟《伊利亚特》对话，探讨到底谁才是希腊人里最出色的英雄——荷马管他们叫阿开亚人。
And then The Odyssey kind of picks up a little bit after the elite well, ten years, I guess, after the Iliad would have ended And and makes the case that Odysseus was actually this is kind of dialogue between the Iliad and the Odyssey of who is the best of the Greeks or the best of the Achaeans as as Homer calls them.
阿开亚人就是
The Achaeans are
因为第一本书里主角是阿喀琉斯，第二本就换成奥德修斯了。
because in the first book, it was Achilles, and in the second book, it's Odysseus.
是的
Yeah.
显然是阿喀琉斯，只要他上战场，希腊人就赢，赢，赢，赢，赢。
Obviously, it's Achilles because whenever Achilles is there, the Greeks win, win, win, win, win.
可一旦阿喀琉斯不在战场上，特洛伊人就赢，赢，赢，赢。但归根结底，到底是谁真正带来了胜利呢？
And whenever Achilles, you know, is is is absent from the battle, the Trojans win, win, win, win, But, you know, at the end of the day, who was it that was responsible for the victory?
荷马是按顺序写的这两部作品吗？
Did Homer write these in sequence?
你
Do you
先写《伊利亚特》吗？
write the Iliad first?
这是古代评论家们的看法。
Well, this this is what the ancient critics thought.
这是一种传统的说法。
This is the kind of traditional narrative.
荷马是个普通人，他写《伊利亚特》的时候还年轻，大概三十五岁左右，正处在精力最旺盛的年纪，身边围绕的都是像《伊利亚特》里那样的战士。
Homer is one guy and, he wrote the Iliad as a young man in the kind of vigor of maybe he's 35 and, you know, hanging around guys like you see in in The Iliad, warriors.
我的意思是，他亲眼见过长矛刺穿人脸，见过《伊利亚特》里那些令人揪心的惨烈场面。
I mean, he's seen spears go in and out of faces and just incredibly worrisome stuff that that you see in The Iliad.
《奥德赛》里也有点，但他就是那种出身战士阶层，或者整天跟战士混在一起的人。
And a little bit in The Odyssey, but that he's one of those kind of, warrior class people or hanging around those kind of guys.
他认识像阿喀琉斯和狄俄墨得斯那样的人。
Knows people like Achilles and Diomedes.
等他年纪大了，才写出了《奥德赛》。
And then in his older age, he he pens The Odyssey.
那是个节奏慢得多的故事。
And it's a slower story.
多了不少插叙和闲笔。
It's more kind of, you know, there's a little more digressions.
更多描写了日常生活，或者和平时期的情景。
There's more kind of slices of daily life or peace time.
所以他是在晚年时写下这部作品的。
And and so he's kind of writing this in the twilight of his years.
我喜欢这一点，因为《伊利亚特》充满原始的力量，直白、紧迫、暴力又带着一种魅力。
And and I I kind of like that because, you know, The Iliad is just so visceral and and, you know, stark and and immediate and violent and glamorous.
它多少有点美化战争，虽然不是毫无批判；而《奥德赛》则像一位老人的作品，也更面向更广泛的读者。
It kind of glamorizes war, not not uncritically, but then The Odyssey is, is kind of if it's if it's a poem by an old man, it's it's also written for a wider audience.
我觉得这也是它在今天、在现代社会依然有吸引力的原因。
I think this has a lot to do with its appeal today too and kind of in in modernity.
它涵盖了更丰富的人类经验。
It just it incorporates a higher range of human experience.
也许它特别适合年轻人，比如故事开头的忒勒马科斯，那个年轻的小伙子。
And it's maybe it's for the young, especially like Telemachus, who's this young guy that kicks off the poem.
说真的，《奥德赛》真正的目标读者可能就是这类年轻人。
I mean, that that might be the the real target audience of of The Odyssey.
它的受众范围更广，覆盖了更多不同的人。
It's just like a like a broader range of people.
《奥德赛》里对女性的刻画也深入多了。
And there's also women much more, you know, explored in-depth in The Odyssey.
我不确定这有没有回答你的问题。
So I don't know if that answers the question.
这就是背景。
That's the background.
这就是我们理解故事开端的方式。
That's how we arrive at the beginning of it.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
特洛伊战争终于结束了。
So all all the Trojan Wars ended.
奥德修斯回家的路上遇到了不少麻烦。
Odysseus had some trouble getting home.
《奥德赛》的故事开始时，特洛伊战争已经过去了整整二十年。
It's actually twenty years after the Trojan War started when the Odyssey timeline begins.
在《奥德赛》开头大概一百行里，我们就知道奥德修斯在从特洛伊回家的路上迷了路。
And we learn in the first, you know, 100 lines or so of The Odyssey that Odysseus, you know, kinda got got got off course trying to get back from Troy.
好几个希腊人都经历过类似的情况。
Several of the Greeks had this experience.
他回家途中遇到了各种怪物和奇怪的人，还惹怒了海神波塞冬。
And on his way home, he met these monsters and strange people, and he pissed off the god Poseidon.
他被困住的原因有很多，有些是他自己造成的，但也未必全是他一个人的错。
And for a variety of reasons, many of which are his his own faults, many of which may be not only his fault.
他被困在一座岛上，跟一位叫卡吕普索的女神在一起，她把他当囚徒一样留着，还想让他做自己的丈夫。
He is stuck on this island with this divine nymph, a calypso, and she's she's she's, she's kinda got him as a prisoner, and she wants to make him her husband.
所以他远离家乡，被困在那里。
And so he's stuck there away from home.
而他家乡伊萨卡岛上的所有人，都在打听他到底去了哪里。
And and then everybody at home back in his homeland, which is an island called Ithaca, is wondering where he is.
你知道吧？
You know?
他死了吗？
Did he die?
他可没死在特洛伊。
He didn't die at Troy.
特洛伊战争的故事在诗中的世界里已经传开了。
The stories about the Trojan War are circulating in the kind of world of the poem.
大家都知道些大概，但就是没奥德修斯的消息。
People know something of what happened, but there's no news of Odysseus.
到底怎么了？
What happened?
他在海上迷路了？
Did he get lost at sea?
他是不是干脆抛弃了家人？
Did he just abandon his family?
他是不是会跑去埃塞俄比亚那边，继续干点海盗的冒险事儿？
Is he, you know, gonna go off and, you know, do more pirate adventures among the Ethiopians?
奥德修斯现在到底怎么样了？
What what's going on with Odysseus?
没人知道他的下落。
Nobody knows.
这首诗一开始，就铺好了这个背景：他一路倒霉，遇到怪物，被困在喀耳刻的岛上。
And and and the the poem kind of starts with this background in place, misadventures, meeting monsters, stuck on the Eclipse's Island.
这些事儿都发生在正故事开始之前。
And, that's all kind of before the story actually begins.
真正的故事，是从众神开会议开始的。
And the story begins when the gods had this meeting.
波塞冬那时候正好心不在焉。
And, Poseidon happens to be distracted.
他生奥德修斯的气，不想让他回家。
He's pissed off at Odysseus and doesn't want him to get home.
但波塞冬呢，跑去和埃塞俄比亚人一起狂欢了，神嘛，不都这样吗。
But, Poseidon's off like partying with the Ethiopians as he do as as one does as as as the gods often do.
我的意思是，他们人挺好的，相处起来很舒服。
I mean, they're they're they're a good hang.
还有那些埃塞俄比亚人。
And The Ethiopians.
埃塞俄比亚人。
The Ethiopians.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
他们人挺好的，相处起来很舒服。
They're a good hang.
明白了。
Okay.
这消息我可从来没听说过。
That's news that's news to me.
去读读希罗多德吧。
Read Herodotus.
里面细节可多了。
There's many details.
你说他们是住在北方的吗？
You know, were they northern?
还是住在南方的？
Were they southern?
谁知道呢。
Who knows?
但他们人挺有意思，而且离得老远。
But they were fun, and and and they're far.
所以波塞冬这才被分散了注意力。
So so Poseidon's distracted.
然后雅典娜说：好吧，现在我们该为奥德修斯做点什么了。
And then Athena says, alright, we can we're gonna do something about Odysseus now.
雅典娜可以说是奥德修斯的守护神。
Athena is kind of Odysseus' divine champion.
她是奥德修斯最钟爱的女神。
She's, his favorite goddess.
而奥德修斯也是她最欣赏的英雄。
He he's her favorite hero.
她去找了宙斯——众神之王、宇宙的主宰。
And she goes to Zeus, the you know, the king of the gods and sort of lord of the cosmos.
她说：奥德修斯是个虔诚的人。
And she says, Odysseus was a pious man.
他是个好国王。
He was a good king.
他也是个好父亲。
He was a good dad.
他被丢在岛上，跟一个仙女在一起，儿子却从小没爹，这太不公平了。
It's just not fair that he just brought away on this island with this nymph and his son is just, you know, growing up without a father.
咱们得管管这事了。
We got to do something about this.
宙斯说：好吧，这事我们得管一管。
And Zeus says, alright, we'll do something about this.
波塞冬也只能认了。
Poseidon will just have to deal with it.
就这样，《奥德赛》的故事正式拉开了序幕。
And and that's how the the action kind of kicks off in in in The Odyssey.
简而言之，众神出手，把奥德修斯从岛上救了出来。
And long story short, you know, Odysseus gets released from the islands, by the gods will.
他的儿子忒勒马科斯被派去经历一场成长之旅，像成人礼一样，雅典娜一路帮着他。
Telemachus, his son, is sent on this kind of vision quest, rite of passage initiation journey, and Athena helps him out with that.
奥德修斯在书的中心讲了一个故事。
Odysseus tells a story center at of the book.
如果你只想跳过《奥德赛》里那些不太精彩的部分，直接看著名的怪物和冒险情节，可以翻到第九到第十二卷，那里奥德修斯亲自向他遇到的这群人讲述自己的全部过往。
And if you wanna just like skip all of the, like, not a plus interesting parts of The Odyssey and just get to the kind of the famous monsters and and adventures, you can go to book nine through 12 where Odysseus basically tells all of the backstory in his own voice to, an audience of people that he's met.
所以到底有多少
So how much how
故事的多少部分是他回家后发生的事，又有多少是回忆之前的经历？
much of the story is what happens when he gets back and how much is the retelling of what happened before?
前八卷讲的是他和忒勒马科斯的故事。
So the the first eight books are him and Telemachus.
全书一共二十四卷。
There's 24 books.
前四卷是忒勒马科斯的篇章，接下来四卷讲的是奥德修斯从卡吕普索的岛出发，前往中间的落脚点——斯刻里亚。
So the first book four four books are Telemachus, then there's four books about Odysseus getting from Calypsus Island to this intermediary destination, Scarea.
那里住着费阿刻斯人，正是他们帮了他回家。
It's called the the Phaeacians or this people that help him get home.
他把自己的经历讲给了他们听。
He tells them his story.
从第13卷到第24卷，讲的是奥德修斯和忒勒马科斯回到伊萨卡，如何解决家里出现的这个大问题——这部分我们还没说到。
And then from 13 to 24 is like him and Telemachus back on Ithaca and how they solve the big problem that has arisen at home, which we haven't treated yet.
对。
Mhmm.
问题是，他家里挤满了追求者，一个个都想把他的妻子抢走。
Which is that his house is infested with suitors trying to woo his wife away, trying to steal his wife away.
这本书有一半像是《爱情岛》。
50% of the book is Love Island.
一半。
50.
没错。
Right.
原始版的《爱情岛》。
The original Love Island.
是的。
Yeah.
食莲族是
The Lotus Eaters were
就是《爱岛》。
Love Island.
是塞壬。
Sirens.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
费阿刻斯人。
The Phaeacians.
对。
Yeah.
这里面有很多那种暧昧的张力。
There's there's a lot of there's a lot of kind of sexual tension.
明白了。
Okay.
明白了。
Okay.
尤其是奥德修斯和费阿刻斯人之间，这个我们该聊一聊。
Especially, you know, Odysseus with the Phaeacians, which we we should
对。
get
嗯。
to.
明白了。
Okay.
那所谓的成人仪式是怎么回事？
So what's the what's the rite of passage thing?
是的。
Yeah.
所以最好从忒勒马科斯开始讲起，当你刚开始读《奥德赛》的时候，你会觉得，哇。
So it's good to start with Telemachus probably be so when you when you start The Odyssey, it's kind of like, wow.
我以为这讲的是奥德修斯，可一页接一页，你根本见不到他，直到……
I thought this was about Odysseus and we're page after page, You don't meet the guy really until
他在这故事里是个蠢儿子，真是的。
he's fucking idiot son in this story, someone.
他确实很软弱，但这正是关键所在。
He's a weak little but that's kind of the point.
你知道的。
You know?
忒勒马科斯被困在家里，哪儿也去不了。
Telemachus is is stuck there at home.
他那时候多大了？
How old is he?
他二十岁了。
He's 20.
奥德修斯离开时他还是个婴儿，根本没见过父亲，只听过关于他的事。
So Odysseus left him as an infant essentially, and he's never met his dad, only heard about him.
他是在一群女人中间长大的，你懂的，他妈妈和那些忠心的女仆。
And he's kind of grown up in this world of women, you know, his mom and the maid servants who are very loyal.
当然，也有一些忠于奥德修斯的仆人，零星地出现在各处。
And, you know, there's loyal servants of Odysseus here and there.
但特勒马科斯的祖父年纪太大，什么都做不了了。
But Telemachus' grandfather is is kind of, too old to do anything.
他因为奥德修斯的缺席而深受打击。
And he's kind of kind of shattered by Odysseus' absence.
所以我觉得，荷马之所以从特勒马科斯讲起，是想让你真切地感受到，当父亲缺席时是什么滋味。
So it's I think it I think it starts with Telemachus because Homer really wants to get you to feel viscerally what it's like when the father figure is absent.
就是当一个领袖不在了，事情会糟糕到什么地步。
Like, how bad things get when the leader is gone.
这推动了整个故事的发展。
And that kind of motivates the rest of the story.
对。
Mhmm.
所以特勒马科斯呢，已经二十岁了。
So so Telemachus is, you know, 20.
他整天被人指使着干这干那。
He's getting bossed around.
他家里有来自整个西希腊的108个追求者，都是王子和有头有脸的人物。
There's a 108 suitors at his house from all over Western Greece, princes and, big shots.
为什么奥德修斯的妻子这么受欢迎？
Why is Odysseus' wife so desirable?
这是个好问题。
That's a good question.
他的妻子叫佩涅洛佩，很有名。
So Penelope is her name famously.
她确实如此。
She's, right.
我的意思是，最小也得三十七八岁了，可能都快四十了。
I mean, late thirties at the youngest, maybe early forties.
我的意思是，为什么她会是整个希腊最抢手的婚配对象呢？
I mean, why are why why is she the most desirable catch in like all of Greece?
我觉得，当然了，女性到了这个年纪依然可以非常有魅力。
I think it's I mean, obviously, like women can be very attractive and alluring at that age.
但要说有一百零八个年轻、富有、单身的贵族子弟，纷纷上门追求她。
But, you know, for a 108 eligible young rich bachelors to come and try to Love Island her.
是的。
Yeah.
这更像邦妮·布莱尔的情形，而不是《爱情岛》那种节目，不过——
It's closer to Bonnie Blue than Love Island, but
没错。
Right.
这正好是个反例。
That's that's the counterexample.
你懂的。
You know?
你总是以为……你知道的。
You're you're always supposed to you know?
这怎么可能会出错呢？
How could this go wrong?
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yep.
佩内洛普的选择很多。
Penelope has a lot of options.
我觉得她很有吸引力。
I think she's desirable.
她非常聪明，教养也好，诸如此类。
She's very smart and well bred, blah, blah, blah.
但我认为她有魅力的真正原因，其实是种模仿欲望。
But the real reason I think she's desirable is, you know, it's like mimetic desire.
就是那种吉拉尔说的那种。
It's the kind of the Girardeau
我就知道你要这么说。
knew you were gonna say that.
你知道的。
You know?
是的。
Yeah.
我就是去那儿了。
I went there.
但有一点，这确实存在。
But one, it's really there.
那个男人之所以成了英雄，是因为只要我能追到她，我就也成了英雄。
The guy that's a hero because if I can take her, that means I'm a hero too.
百分之百正确。
A 100%.
你可能不信，但这才是睡眠优化的巅峰状态。
You might not believe me, but this is what peak sleep optimization looks like.
我说的不是睡衣。
I'm not talking about the nightgown.
那只是为了增加吸引力。
It's just for sex appeal.
我说的是我的Eight Sleep系统。
I'm talking about my Eight Sleep.
Eight Sleep Pod五代配有一个智能床罩，铺在床垫上，能独立调节床的两侧温度，最高可调20度。
The Eight Sleep Pod five comes with a smart cover you throw in your mattress that actively cools or heats each side of the bed up to 20 degrees.
现在他们又推出了全球首款温控被套和枕套。
And now they've added the world's first temperature regulating duvet and pillowcase.
所以你能享受到全方位的覆盖，获得深度且不间断的睡眠。
So you've got 360 degree coverage for deep, uninterrupted rest.
这感觉就像成了迪士尼，但不用冷冻身体，也不用背负那些争议。
It's like being Walt Disney without the cryogenic chamber and the racism.
最棒的是，它的自动模式会学习你的睡眠习惯，实时调整以提升睡眠质量。
Best of all, their autopilot feature learns your sleep patterns and makes adjustments to improve your sleep in real time.
它甚至能检测到你打鼾，并微微抬高你的头部，帮你更顺畅地呼吸。
It even detects when you're snoring and lifts your head a few inches to help you breathe better.
正因如此，Eight Sleep 已经被临床证明，每晚能帮你多睡整整一小时的优质睡眠。
That's why Eight Sleep has been clinically proven to add up to one hour of quality sleep per night.
他们提供三十天的试用期，你买回来后可以睡二十九晚再决定。
They have a thirty day sleep trial, you can buy it and sleep on it for twenty nine nights.
如果你不满意，他们会全额退款。
If you don't like it, they will give you your money back.
而且，他们支持全球配送。
Plus, they ship internationally.
现在通过点击下方描述中的链接，或者访问 8sleep.com/modernwisdom 并在结账时输入代码 modernwisdom，你最多可以省下 350 美元。
Right now, you can get up to $350 off the pod five by going to the link in the description below or heading to 8sleep.com/modernwisdom and using the code modern wisdom at checkout.
就是 8sleep.com/modernwisdom，结账时输入 modernwisdom。
That's eightsleep.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout.
这不就像海伦被众人追捧、被人带走、被人抢走那样吗？现在这种情形，是不是也重现了类似的张力？
Is there a is there a mirroring of Helen of Troy being so very desirable, being whisked away, being stolen, and now this is a new version of the same a similar kind of tension.
是的。
Yeah.
完全对。
Totally.
我的意思是，荷马其实铺陈了各种女性的不同选择，就是为了衬托出佩涅洛佩如果偏离正轨会怎样。
I mean, that's kind of the the story that there's all these like, Homer lays out all these kind of other versions of women making different choices to sort of highlight what Penelope could do if if she goes off track.
这真是闻所未闻。
Why Unheard of.
不对。
No.
不对。
No.
而且，你知道，还有一个故事，我们稍后会讲到，那些令人毛骨悚然的反面例子。
And and, you know, there's a story that that he, well, we'll we'll get to in a moment, the all the kind of, you know, gruesome counterexamples.
所以这其实是一种文化传播的现象。
So so it is this memetic thing.
我觉得这就是她对那些年轻小伙子完全无动于衷的原因——她清楚他们打的是什么算盘。
I think that's that's one of the reasons why she's just not impressed by any of these young lads because she knows what they're trying to do.
对吧？
Right?
他们想通过抢走他妻子，来取代这位可能是史上最伟大的英雄的地位，然后我就有了奥德修斯的妻子，
Like, they're trying to usurp the status of the greatest hero alive maybe ever by just, you know, picking off his wife, and then I'll I'll have Odysseus' wife and,
你知道的，那个提穆斯·奥德修斯。
you know, The Teemu Odysseus.
提穆斯·奥德修斯。
Teemu Odysseus.
特穆
Teemu.
对啊
Yeah.
就像是中国的仿制品
Like, the the the Chinese knockoff
没错
Yes.
奥德修斯的仿冒版
Of Odysseus.
没错
Right.
他们还自以为是地说，
And, they're like, hey.
她却说，我有真正的，用不着你那华为手机。
She goes, I've got the, I don't need your, like, Huawei phone.
我有
I've got
对
Yeah.
我有
I've got
一部iPhone
an iPhone.
对
Yeah.
她还说，人家都跟她讲，亲爱的，iPhone已经过时了
And she's like, oh, they're they're like, oh, sweetie, iPhones are dead.
你懂的
You know?
再也回不来了
They're never coming back.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
你得啊。
You gotta Yeah.
华为。
Huawei.
之前缺货了。
Was just back ordered.
现在还是缺货。
It's back ordered.
我觉得。
I believe.
我觉得。
I believe.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
所以啊，我觉得正因如此，她才不想跟他们任何人扯上关系，但她心里又在琢磨，他到底会不会回来呢？
So so, I think that's why it's she doesn't want it to have anything to do with any of any of them, but she's kind of wondering, like, is he actually ever coming back?
所以这里面其实有种紧张的氛围。
So there's there's a kind of dramatic tension there.
儿子身处这样的环境，感觉怎么样？
What's that like for the son to be around this situation?
你知道吗，那些追求者已经在这儿待了四年了。
Well, you know, the suitors have been there for, like, four years.
他不是一直都在，但当初他们来的时候，儿子才十六岁，现在他一个人，根本敌不过那么多人。
He haven't been there the whole time, but, you know, he's he was 16 maybe when they came, and he's he's he's far outnumbered.
他觉得自己在家一点话语权都没有。
He doesn't feel like he's in control of his own house.
事实上，这地方简直乱套了。
And in fact, it's kind of anarchy.
就像你说的，当父权一消失，佩涅洛佩也不会突然就接管一切，变成家里的顶梁柱。
Like, anarchy, you know, when when the patriarchy is removed, you know, Penelope doesn't just like suddenly step in and become the man of the house.
在希腊，事情可不是这么办的。
It's it's doesn't work like that in Greece at least.
当时谁最强势，谁说了算，也就是这些追求者。
It's it's kind of the rule of the most assertive at the time, which is these suitors.
他们之间还在暗中较劲，争地位。
And there's a kind of jockeying for status among them.
在他们眼里，忒勒马科斯绝对是最低的那个，人少又年轻，根本没法比。
But certainly, Telemachus is the bottom of the food chain as far as they're concerned because they outnumber him and they're older.
所以他觉得自己根本没法重新站稳脚跟。
And, and so he doesn't feel like he can reassert himself.
就在这时候，雅典娜出现了，想扭转这个局面。
And and this is exactly where Athena comes in to try to twist the situation.
她亲自下凡来了。
So, she comes down herself.
宙斯派赫尔墨斯去帮奥德修斯解决卡吕普索的问题。
The Zeus sends Hermes to go and sort out Odysseus with Calypso.
但雅典娜亲自来了，化装成一个年轻男子。
But Athena comes herself in disguise as, as a man, mentee.
她扮成另一个身份，某天突然出现在特勒马科斯家——也就是奥德修斯的家里。
She takes on this, you know, alter ego and shows up at Telemachus' house at Odysseus' house one day.
结果她连大门都没人迎接，这完全违背了待客之道。
And, you know, she doesn't get greeted at the gates, which is very bad hospitality.
那些追求者们，正在滥用主人家的款待。
So so the suitors are, abusing the hospitality of the house.
他们根本不是按规矩来追求的。
And, they're actually not doing this whole courtship thing the way you're supposed to.
从希腊人的角度看，正确做法应该是去找佩涅洛佩的父亲，说：‘现在她可以出嫁了，您觉得我们当中谁合适？’
Like, the right thing to do from the Greek perspective would have been to go and talk to Penelope's dad and say, all right, well, she's eligible now, like which one of us do you approve of?
可他们呢，只顾着大吃大喝，把奥德修斯家的牲畜和财物挥霍一空。
But instead, they're just eating away at the the cows and enjoying the the fruits of the, the estate of of Odysseus' house.
他们简直是在吃垮奥德修斯家，连特勒马科斯的家底都要吃光了。
They're they're eating him out of house and home, eating Telemachus out of house and home.
他们做客人很没礼貌，做主人也不称职。
They're being bad guests, and they're not being good hosts.
他们在方方面面都没把自己当外人。
They're not acting like they own the place on all these levels.
雅典娜到了之后，尽管看起来体面得很，却被晾在一边。
So when when Athena gets there, she's just sort of like left hanging even though she looks really respectable.
这种事在当时简直是大忌。
And this is this is just seen as, you know, incredibly a bad faux pas.
忒勒马科斯迎上去，明显对这些人没招呼她感到不满。
And Telemachus greets her, and he's he's, like, visibly annoyed that, that these people haven't greeted her.
他主动向她表示了款待。
And and he extends her hospitality.
他请她进屋，她也很快明白了整个情况。
He welcomes her in and and and she you know, long story short, she says, you know, he explains the situation.
她对他说：孩子，你听说过俄瑞斯忒斯的事吗？
She's like, you know, my boy, have you heard of the story of what Orestes did?
特勒马科斯说：不，你讲给我听。
And Telemachus says, no, tell me.
奥瑞斯忒斯是阿伽门农的儿子。
Well, Orestes was the son of Agamemnon.
阿伽门农是希腊人的国王，特洛伊战争的统帅，所有国王里最强大的一个。
Agamemnon was the king of the Greeks, the the leader of the Greeks at Troy, the the the biggest of the kings.
他组织了远征军去夺回海伦。
He organized the expedition to capture Helen.
他们赢了。
And they won.
可他一回来，刚到家，就被自己妻子谋杀了——她被阿伽门农的堂弟勾引，那人想篡夺王位。
And when he came back, like, practically upon arrival, he gets murdered by his own wife who was seduced by his cousin who wanted to steal the throne from Agamemnon.
所以阿伽门农被堂弟和自己的妻子克吕泰涅斯特拉联手害死了。
And so, Agamemnon's murdered by his cousin and his own his own lovely wife, Clytemnestra.
之后两人在阿伽门农缺席的几年里统治了阿尔戈斯，直到他的儿子奥瑞斯忒斯悄悄潜回，把他们俩都杀了。
And then they rule Argos in his absence for a few years, and then Orestes, his son, sneaks back in and murders them both.
他杀了自己的母亲和舅舅，夺回了阿尔戈斯，为阿伽门农的血脉复仇。
Murders his own mother and his uncle and takes back Argos for the bloodline of Agamemnon.
雅典娜说，你可能也得对那些追求者做同样的事。
And Athena says, you might have to do just such a thing with these suitors.
所以她用这个例子是在激励他，但她是想让他和母亲产生隔阂吗？
So she's trying to stir him up by this example of, you know Is she trying to create a rift between him and his mother?
我觉得不是这么回事。
I don't think I don't think that's what's going on.
他本可以
He could have read
用这个例子这么理解。
it in that way using that example.
对吧？
Right?
但这确实暗示了一个问题：你妈妈也有自己的想法，她可能会走偏。
But it it does kind of point to the issue of, hey, you know, your mom has her own mind, and she could go astray.
不管怎样，你都得站出来当这个主心骨。
Like, you have to be the man in situation no matter what.
对。
Mhmm.
你还得让人觉得你很危险。
And you have to be dangerous.
你可能得变成一个能动用暴力的人。
You have to be become a man of violence, potentially.
你得有本事震慑住那些家伙。
You have to be you have to be able to scare these guys.
明白。
K.
所以雅典娜出手，帮奥德修斯对付那108个追求者。
So Athenas come in to cock block a 108 suitors.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
而且你要让特勒马科斯真正成熟起来，去完成他的冒险。
And and and to, you know, get get Telemachus to to man up finally and, you know, go on his his quest.
她 basically 就是说，你得这么办。
And basically, she's she says, here's what you gotta do.
直面那些追求者，揭穿他们的不公，然后离开家乡，去找你父亲的老朋友们。
Confront the suitors, call out their injustice, and then get out of town and go and meet some of your dad's friends.
去大陆上见见奥德修斯的旧部。
Meet some of Odysseus' old buddies on the Mainland.
他后来就是这么做的。
And this is what he does in short.
于是他出发去见了涅斯托尔，这位希腊最睿智的老人，年纪很大，话也特别多。
And, and so he goes and he meets, Nestor, this old guy, one of the wisest of the Greeks, very old, very talkative old man.
这还挺有意思的。
It's kind of funny.
在皮洛斯，涅斯托尔告诉特勒马科斯一些消息。
And Nestor at Pilos tells Telemachus some news.
他除了听说奥德修斯被风暴卷走、下落不明之外，别的什么都不知道。
He hasn't heard about Odysseus other than he got he got, you know, blown by the storm off into oblivion.
没人知道他到底发生了什么事。
Nobody knows what happened to him.
但涅斯托尔跟特勒马科斯讲了更多关于阿伽门农的事，这对整个故事线挺关键的。
But but Nestor tells Telemachus about, gives some more details about Agamemnon actually, which is interesting for the bigger plot.
阿伽门农启程去特洛伊的时候，他妻子表现得非常好。
So when Agamemnon, left, to go to Troy, he left his wife was really good when he left.
克吕泰涅斯特拉是个聪明的女人。
Clyde Mestra is a wise woman.
她出身高贵。
She's well born.
她其实是海伦的妹妹，一开始也挺好的。
She was actually the sister of Helen who also started off good.
你知道吧。
Know?
这其实是个警示。
This is kind of the threat.
明白吗？
You know?
好女人要是遇上糟糕的境遇，也可能变坏。
Good women can go wrong if the circumstances are wrong.
他怎么确保她不走偏呢？
What did he do to keep her on the straight and narrow?
他留了个吟游诗人在家照看她。
He left a bard there to to look after her.
所以阿伽门农相当于把荷马留在妻子克吕泰涅斯特拉身边，给她讲些励志的故事，讲女人作恶会有什么下场之类的。
So Agamemnon kind of left a Homer there with his wife, Clyde Nestra, to tell her improving stories and tell her stories of what goes wrong when women behave badly or whatever it is.
但你知道，诗人往往被视为道德秩序的维护者。
But, you know, the poet is sort of seen as this upholder of the moral order.
荷马这么做，多少有点自利的成分。
It's slightly self serving by Homer there.
你也可以把它看成是颂扬诗人的宣传。
You know, you might think of it as pro bard propaganda.
我觉得这么说挺公允的，不只是荷马这么想。
I think that would be fair, it it it it is not just Homer that thinks this.
这是一种非常根深蒂固的希腊观念，你能在柏拉图身上看到，也能在悲剧作家身上看到。
This is a very deep Greek idea that, you know, you could see it in Plato, you could see it in the tragedians.
在口传文化里，诗人尤其承担着记忆并传递世代重要价值的责任，对吧？
And it's like the poets are kind of, especially in an oral culture, poets are the ones who remember the things that need to be passed down from generation to generation, right?
所以，优秀的诗人往往拥有很高的道德权威。
So they kind of, they have a lot of moral credibility if they're good ones.
当然，也有不好的诗人。
And you know, there can be bad ones too.
但很快，阿伽门农的表亲就意识到，他根本接近不了克吕达涅斯特拉。
But as soon so basically, Agamemnon's cousin knew that he couldn't get to Clyde Mnath.
他不断向表亲的妻子献殷勤，可她每次都毫不留情地把他推开。
He kept kind of making advances at, his his cousin's wife, and she just kept swatting him away.
后来他才明白，问题出在那个诗人身上。
And then he realized, ah, the poet is the problem.
于是他抓走了诗人，把他流放到一座荒岛上。
So he captures the poet and he sends him off to a desert island.
这样一来，克吕达涅斯特拉就失去了道德上的保护。
And then Clyde Mnestra was morally defenseless.
就在这个时候，奥德修斯趁机出现，把她勾引走了——因为诗人不在了。
And that's when Odysseus swooped in and seduced her because the poet was away.
所以，确实，我觉得这正好说明了希腊人为什么需要史诗诗歌。
So, yeah, there I think this really does match how how the Greeks would have thought of, like, why you need epic epic poetry.
它实际上是社会道德的支柱之一。
It's like, it is actually kind of moral pillar of society.
是的
Mhmm.
对
Mhmm.
所以，总之，涅斯托尔说，我就知道这么多，但墨涅拉俄斯还活着。
So, anyway, he you know, Nestor says, that's all I know, but Menelaus is alive.
去问问墨涅拉俄斯吧。
Go talk to Menelaus.
他可能知道得更多。
Maybe he knows more.
我还知道另一位特洛伊战争中的希腊英雄。
I know another Greek hero from Troy.
忒勒马科斯去见墨涅拉俄斯，结果真的见到了海伦。
Telemachus goes talk to Menelaus, and he actually meets Helen of Troy.
这时候的她，已经重新成了斯巴达的海伦了。
She's she's back to being Helen of Sparta at this point.
她回来了，已经回归故土了。
She's, you know, she's come back and Repatriated.
回归故土。
Repatriate.
是的。
Yeah.
回到她原本的主人身边。
Return to her rightful owner.
所以，没错，海伦和忒勒马科斯之间的互动特别有意思。
So, yeah, and Helen, it's a really interesting interaction with Helen.
她虽然变得收敛多了，成了一个家族长辈，不再是当年的少女，但依然带着那种神秘的吸引力，典型的致命女郎气质。
She's still kind of, she's kind of chastened, you know, she's become a matriarch instead of a maiden, but she's still kinda got that spooky allure, femme fatale charm.
有一次，她往忒勒马科斯的酒里偷偷加了点药，好让他在这场宴会上更尽兴。
She gives Telemachus, she slips some some some kind of drug into his drink at one point so he can enjoy himself better at this party that they're at.
他到的时候，他们正在举办盛大的宴会，为墨涅拉俄斯的两个孩子操办婚事。
They're throwing a big feast when he arrives, marrying off their, Menelaus' two kids.
他们开始讲故事，海伦悄悄在他饮料里下了药，让人彻底忘掉回家的念头。
And they start to tell stories and, and and Helen puts a drug in his drink that would make any man forget about all desire of returning home.
就算父母在他眼前被杀害，他也会无动于衷，直到第二天才反应过来。
And even if his parents were slaughtered before his eyes, he would not care until the next day.
这其实象征着女性魅力对男人的强大影响力。
It's this kind of like, I think it's symbolic of, you know, the the the power of the female charms over over a man.
海伦在这两部史诗里并没有被塑造成光彩照人的形象。
Helen of Troy not showering herself in glory across these two books.
确实，作者在某些地方故意埋下了模糊的伏笔。
Facts, definitely rolling some dice into the into the fray.
另外有个有意思的地方，我其实对埃米莉·威尔逊的现代流行译本有个小不同看法。
And and and the interesting thing too is she so I could quibble with Emily Wilson on a translation point here into the the more popular Odyssey, translation these days.
海伦说她是第一个认出忒勒马科斯的人。
So Helen says she's the first person to recognize Telemachus.
按常理，客人来了，总得先问清楚身份，再招待吧。
It's common to not like you welcome in a guest before you ask them who they are.
得先招待好，喂饱了，再给件像样的长袍穿上，这才问对方是谁。
Only after you've fed them and, know, given them some, you know, a nice robe to wear or whatever, then do you ask them who they are.
但海伦一眼就认出了忒勒马科斯，她说：‘如果我没认错，你应该是奥德修斯的儿子——当年希腊人为了把我这个不要脸的女人接回去，攻下特洛伊时，他还只是个襁褓中的婴儿。’
But Helen recognizes Telemachus immediately and she says, if I'm not mistaken, you are the son of Odysseus, who Odysseus left as a tiny infant when the Greeks all came to Troy to, to take me back, the shameless one.
原文里用的那个词，其实可以直译成‘不要脸的婊子’。
And the Greek there actually says you could be translated as shameless bitch.
希腊语里那个词叫‘kunops’，意思是‘狗脸’。
The kunops is the the Greek word, means dog face.
这话说得非常刻薄。
It's a very rude thing.
她居然管自己叫婊子之类的话。
She calls herself, you know, a bitch or something.
她这是在自嘲啊。
Like it's it's she kind of insults herself.
我觉得，这种自贬反而特别有感染力。
And it's it's really disarming, I think.
所以，艾米丽·威尔逊把这句翻译成了类似‘他们把我带回去，那个一直纠缠他们的人’之类的意思。
So, Emily Wilson translated that line as something like, they came to take me back, the one who who hounded them or something.
哦。
Oh.
所以，‘猎犬’这个词其实是在呼应前面的‘狗’，但这样表达稍微柔和了一些，对海伦来说也算稍微委婉了一点。
It so the hound is kind of an illusion to the dog piece, but it kind of softens the fact that Helen is really kind of Slightly more flattering.
对。
Yeah.
其实道理是这样的，关键在于她通过说出你心里对她的那些坏印象，来引诱你。
It's more but the point is she seduces you by saying the bad thing that you had in mind about her.
这女人怎么能就这样，你知道的，装作我们都不清楚她做过的那些可怕的事，而且她居然第一个就点出来了。
How can this woman just, you know, pretend like we don't all know the terrible things she did, and that's the first thing she named.
然后她就说，哦。
And she's like, oh.
只要足够有自知之明，什么都能蒙混过关。
You can get away with anything with enough self awareness.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
她故意贬低自己，好让你靠近她。
She kind of insults herself to to to draw you in.
她在《伊利亚特》里也是这么做的。
And she does this in The Iliad too.
她真是个心思很深的女人。
She's a she's a really tricky woman.
但她表现得挺得体，而且墨涅拉俄斯看起来也挺开心。
But, know, she's behaving herself, and yeah, Menelaus seems happy.
他们俩之间有点微妙的紧张感。
There's a little bit of there's a little bit of tension between the two of them.
第四卷里的这个场景特别有意思。
It's a really interesting scene in book four.
但整个这段特勒马科斯故事的核心在于，他父亲不在的时候，他得向父亲的同辈证明自己。
But but the point of this whole quest, to sum up the Telemachus piece, is he has to prove himself to the peers of his father when his father's not abs not there.
他通过旅行、打听父亲的消息，说自己只是想把家事理顺，同时表现得得体来做到这一点。
And he does this by, you know, making the journey, asking about his dad and say, I'm just trying to get my house in order and kind of behaving himself well.
他做事非常有分寸，也很虔诚。
He, you know, he's he's acts very tactfully, he's pious.
在这段旅程中，他造访的每一个家庭都井然有序，和他家里那片混乱形成鲜明对比。
And, you know, they're always in this this trip, the the houses that he meets are all these well ordered households that are this great contrast with the chaos at home.
其中一个表明他们秩序井然的标志，就是他们会向神明献祭。
And one of the things that signals that they're well ordered is there's sacrifices to the gods.
每次吃饭前，他们都会祈祷、洗手、献上祭品。
Like every time before a meal, they pray to the gods, they wash their hands, they have a sacrifice.
那些追求者却从不吃饭前祈祷。
Never, never do the suitors pray before a meal.
这其实是个明显的信号。
You know, it's a sign.
没有信仰的。
Godless.
他们毫无敬畏之心。
They're godless.
他们一片混乱。
They're chaotic.
他们根本没做该做的事。
They're not doing what they're supposed to be doing.
荷马在《奥德赛》中比在《伊利亚特》中更看重这些细节。
Homer cares a lot about these things more in The Odyssey than he does about The Iliad.
这些小事其实都在暗示着，文化和社会的秩序是否井然。
These are like little things that sort of signal, you know, good order in culture and society.
对。
Mhmm.
明白了。
Okay.
那这就是这个成年仪式的终点了吗？
And is that the end of this rite of passage?
是的。
Yeah.
基本上就是墨涅拉俄斯邀请忒勒马科斯想住多久就住多久。
That's basically the Menelaus invites Telemachus to stay as long as he wants.
但忒勒马科斯说，我得回去了。
And Telemachus says, I gotta get back.
你们实在太客气了。
You've been very kind.
我在这儿住上一整年都没问题。
I could stay here a whole year.
这儿真是太好了。
It's it's so nice.
墨涅拉俄斯是希腊最富有的人之一。
Menelaus is like one of the richest Greeks
谢谢你给我下药。
Thanks for drugging me.
我真玩得很开心，说真的。
I've had a really good time, let me tell you.
没错。
Yep.
但我得回去了，门涅拉俄斯还送了他马匹。
But, I gotta get back to Menelaus offers him these horses.
这感觉特别棒。
It's, like, really nice.
这就像是给个孩子一辆法拉利。
It's it's like offering a kid a Ferrari.
你懂的。
You know?
特勒马科斯说，你知道的，我的岛上根本不养马。
And and Telemachus says, you know, my island is not horse country.
这是养山羊的地方。
It's goat country.
根本没地方骑马跑。
There's no no no place to ride around horses.
是个又丑又荒凉的小岛。
It's an ugly, scraggly little island.
但那是我的家。
But that's home for me.
我不确定。
And I don't know.
他必须回去，面对挑战，经历磨难，才能成为真正的自己。
He he has to he knows he has to get back and take on the challenge and, like, suffer to to become who he is.
但这就是故事的结局。
But that that is the kind of end of it.
他离开期间，还有一件事得提一下，那些追求者也在密谋。
And while he's away, it should be mentioned, the suitors also plan.
他们发现他偷偷溜走了，就计划派一艘船在半路埋伏他，把他杀了。
They find out that he snuck off, and they plan to ambush him with a ship, on his way back and murder him.
所以他身上可是背了个靶子
So he's he's got a target painted
似的。
on him.
这帮混蛋真是太过分了。
What a bunch of bastards.
荷马反复强调，这些人就是坏蛋。
They are again and again, Homer wants you to know, these guys are bad.
他们个个都坏透了。
All of them are bad.
他们活该遭报应。
They deserve everything that's coming to them.
大多数人没意识到脱水对表现的影响有多大，所以我过去五年几乎每天早上都会喝LMNT。
Most people don't realize how much being dehydrated impacts their performance, which is why for the last five years, I've started pretty much every morning with LMNT.
LMNT是一款味道不错的电解质饮品粉，该有的成分都有，不该有的全没有。
LMNT is a tasty electrolyte drink mix with everything that you need and nothing that you don't.
一勺橙味盐兑进冰水里，就像一杯甜中带咸、满口橙香的甘露，我喝不喝真的能明显感觉到差别。
This orange salt in a cold glass of water is like a sweet, salty, orangey nectar, and I really tell the difference when I take it versus when I don't.
它能有效减少肌肉抽筋和疲劳，帮助改善大脑健康，还能调节食欲、抑制馋嘴。
It plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue, helps to optimize brain health, and regulates your appetite while also curbing cravings.
最棒的是，他们提供无条件全额退款，没有时间限制，你可以放心试用多久都行。
Best of all, they have a no questions asked refund policy with an unlimited duration, so you can buy it and try it for as long as you want.
如果你不喜欢，随便什么理由，钱都原封不动退给你。
And if you don't like it for any reason, they'll just give you your money back.
而且在美国购买还包邮。
Plus, offer free shipping in The US.
现在通过下方链接或访问 drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom 下单首单，就能免费获得一份 Element 最受欢迎口味的试用装。
Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.
网址是 drinklmnt.com/bottomwisdom。
That's drinklmnt.com/bottomwisdom.
在这一阶段，它们在哲学上应该代表什么？
What are they supposed to represent philosophically at this stage?
我觉得
I think
这里正上演着无政府状态和父权体制之间的冲突。
so there's there's the whole anarchy versus patriarchy going on.
还有一种被篡夺的荣耀。
There's the kind of usurped glory.
我觉得《奥德赛》
I think The Odyssey
好人没了，坏人就会趁虚而入。
Good men, bad men, absence of good men means that there's a vacuum for bad men to step in.
完全正确。
100%.
我觉得《奥德赛》整体讲的是秩序与熵之间的对抗，是复杂社会逐渐瓦解、退化成野蛮或原始状态的过程。
And I think there's a kind of broader arc of the The Odyssey is about the the clash between order and entropy and, and sort of dissolution of complex societies into kind of barbaric or animal, you know, soup.
对。
Mhmm.
那些求婚者象征着暴力、混乱和原始的混沌，而秩序往往需要通过暴力才能从中建立起来。
And the suitors kind of represent those forces of of violence and and turmoil and primordial soup out of which order needs to be established sometimes sometimes violently.
是的。
Yeah.
明白了。
Okay.
这就是正义。
And that's and that's justice.
这一点很重要。
That's importantly.
建立正义，正是关键所在。
To establish that is about justice.
好的。
Okay.
然后剧情一转，奥德修斯某天醒来，发现自己躺在卡吕普索的岛上，一心只想回家。
And then we switch and Odysseus wakes up one day on Calypso's island, needs to get home.
他呆呆地望着大海，坐在那里，流泪思念着故乡。
Staring off into the ocean, sitting there, weeping, longing for his homeland.
是的。
Mhmm.
卡吕普索是个美得惊人的女神，他漂流到她的岛上，她收留了他。
Calypso is, you know, this incredibly hot divine goddess who, he's he's washed up ashore on her island, and she offered him hospitality.
过去八年，他们一直在一起。
And basically, they've been sleeping together for the past eight years.
好。
Okay.
但奥德修斯说，她们从未真正赢得我的心。
But Odysseus points out, never did they win the heart within me.
那是因为
It was
有点儿意思，但不是我的心之所系。
kind of little but not my heart.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
那只是肉体关系，宝贝。
It was just sex, baby.
你懂的。
You know?
荷马似乎也觉得这样的解释完全可以接受。
And I Homer seems to take this as as an acceptable explanation.
我们得把环境调得合适一点。
We're gonna darken the environment appropriately.
马上就要有气氛了。
It's getting it's about to get spooky.
是的
Yeah.
没错
Exactly.
是的
Yeah.
好的
Okay.
所以
So
所以，他确实醒来了。
so that's yeah, he wakes up.
这是第五本书。
It's book five.
赫尔墨斯也按照宙斯的指示出现了。
And and Hermes arrives as as he was sent from from Zeus.
赫尔墨斯先去了卡吕普索那里。
Hermes goes to Calypso first.
他先到岛上，整个人都看呆了。
Well, first he gets to the island and he's just stunned.
美得不得了。
It's so beautiful.
到处都是茂盛的果树，微风轻拂，绿意盎然，温度刚刚好，不热不冷。
It's just lush fruit trees and pleasant breeze and verdant and perfect, not too hot, not too cold.
可不是休斯顿那种闷热潮湿的天气。
It's not like Houston humid.
就是那种感觉。
It's just like
所以有些人可能会说。
So for people that's saying
就像是
It's like
荷马一到那儿就说，太好了，总算不用待在该死的休斯顿了。
Like, Homer arrives and he goes, I'm so glad I'm not in fucking Houston.
没错。
Yeah.
休斯顿是湿热，但再怎么说，还是自己的家乡最温馨。
Well well, you know, Houston is humid, but there's no there's no place sweeter than one's homeland.
确实如此。
Yeah.
所以说。
So Yeah.
连众神都惊叹，这个地方美得让人愿意永生停留，而这正是卡吕普索许诺给奥德修斯的。
So even the gods are amazed at how beautiful and how nice of a place this would be to spend eternity, which is precisely what Calypso is promising Odysseus.
她说：别想你的妻子，别想你的儿子，就留在我身边，永远不走。
She says, forget about your wife, forget about your son, just stay with me forever.
我会让你永生。
I will make you immortal.
而且不只是永生，你会永远年轻漂亮。
And not just immortal, you'll be young and beautiful the rest of your years.
有时候女神们会忘了承诺让你永远年轻。
Sometimes goddesses forget to promise the whole youth thing.
有个不太好的故事，讲的是一个叫提托诺斯的人，黎明女神厄俄斯让他获得了永生，却忘了让宙斯赐予他永恒的青春。
There's a bad story about this happening with, this guy Tethonis, who the goddess Dawn, Eos, managed to get it arranged so that he would be immortal, but forgot to ask Zeus that he would be made youthful forever.
结果他只能不断衰老，变得枯萎衰弱。
And so he just gets older and older and Decrepid.
但就是死不了。
And never dies.
最后缩成了一只小小的虫子。
He kind of shrinks to a little little bug.
合同细节一定要看清楚。
Always gotta read the small print.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
你知道的，跟女神做交易的时候，谁也说不准会不会有什么漏洞，
And, you know, you never know when you make a deal with a goddess, like, there there might be some loophole that
她真该死。
Fuck her.
让你吃大亏。
That screws you over.
明白了。
Okay.
是啊。
Yeah.
也不总是坏事。
It doesn't always it's not always bad.
荷马来了。
Homer arrives.
这真的很不错。
It's real nice.
奥德修斯早就被卡吕普索缠住了。
Odysseus has been piping Calypso for ages.
是的。
Yeah.
被迫的。
Unwillingly.
没错。
Yep.
对啊。
Yeah.
我肯定。
I'm sure.
但赫尔墨斯说，你必须放他走。
But Hermes says, you you gotta let him go.
卡吕普索犹豫不决，磨磨蹭蹭。
And Calypso hems and haws.
这不公平。
This is not fair.
他是我的人，可她说好吧，我帮他离开。
He's my he's my boy toy, but she says, all right, I'll help him get out
离开这儿。
of here.
像神一样威严，对吧？
Grimso like a god, Zaz?
所以她其实是
So she's
一位宁芙，也就是神灵，是的。
a nymph, which is a divine Yeah.
她本质上是个女神，只是等级低一点。
She's a goddess basically, sort of lesser divinity.
没错。
Right.
而且据说美得惊人。
And to all accounts very beautiful.
赫尔墨斯把坏消息告诉她之后，她就去找奥德修斯，说：好吧，我得放你走。
I mean, she goes to Odysseus after Hermes gives her the bad news and she says, all right, well, I have to let you go.
宙斯命令我放你走。
Zeus told me I have to let you go.
但你其实不用非走不可。
But you don't actually have to go.
我们还是可以继续让你永生啊。
We could still do the whole immortality thing.
你老婆有什么，是我没有的？
I mean, what does your wife have that I don't have?
奥德修斯说：你说得对。
And Odysseus says, look, you're right.
你比我妻子美多了，这地方也确实不错，但我还是想念我的家乡。
You are far more beautiful than my own wife, and this place is really nice, but I miss my homeland.
我想念我的妻子和孩子。
I miss my wife and my kid.
她实际上是在向他许诺一些东西，可为什么这让人觉得不够呢？
And she, essentially she's promising him something that like, why is this unsatisfying?
这就像是你去岛上度假。
And it's kind of like your island vacation.
就撑一周。
It lasts a week.
挺舒服的。
It's nice.
我确实需要这么一段时光。
I needed that.
好了，该回去工作了。
All right, time to get back to work.
但如果这个海岛假期持续几周、几个月呢？
But what if the island vacation lasts weeks and weeks and months?
我们大概都体会过这种感觉。
We probably all felt that feeling.
我觉得很容易理解，为什么这种承诺——让你用永恒的时间享受这种悠闲假期，手里还拿着小伞的饮料——最终让人提不起兴趣。
I think it's easy to understand why this offer is like ultimately not appealing to spend the rest of your eternity on this leisurely vacation with a, you know, little umbrella in your drink.
但对奥德修斯来说，这种感觉尤其强烈。
But it's it's it's also, like, particularly, pointed for Odysseus.
在故事里，荷马会给每个人物配上固定的修饰语。
In the story, Homer Homer gives these people epithets.
就是那些在诗歌里反复出现的形容词。
These, like, recurring adjectives that describe them in the poetry.
奥德修斯被称为‘多变之人’，polytropos。
Odysseus is many turned, polytropos.
他非常善于变通，极其机智，polytropos。
He is much like many crafted, you know, very, very crafty, polymatis.
他也很能吃苦，很能忍耐，politas。
He is also much suffering or much enduring, politas.
所有这些特质共同塑造了奥德修斯——他机智、见多识广、坚韧不拔，正是这些让他与众不同，成就了真正的他。
So all of the things about that kind of make Odysseus what he is, that he's crafty, that he's, that he's well traveled, that he's, that he endures and endures, and this is kind of what makes him special and what makes him who he is.
这构成了他的身份。
It's like makes up his identity.
如果他留在那个岛上，这些就全都不成立了。
None of that would be true if he stayed on that island.
那等于是在失去自我。
He would kind of it would be kind of like a loss of identity.
所以我明白，为什么这根本没什么吸引力。
So, I see why it's not appealing.
但她说了，我会帮你离开。
But she, you know, she says, I'll help you go.
看这里。
Here.
她去了她的工具棚。
She goes to her tool shed.
去工具棚看看。
Check with the tool shed.
这主意不错。
That's hot.
是的。
Yeah.
这算是对她的一种认可了。
Well, that was a vote of confidence for her.
对话谈不上多精彩，但挺实用的。
Apparently not that great a conversation, but practical enough.
太好了。
Wonderful.
她给他拿来了钻头和斧头，任何做船需要的工具。
She brings him an auger and axe, whatever you need to make a boat.
她说：‘好了，工具在这儿。’
She says, All right, here are the tools.
树就在那儿。
There are the trees.
把它们劈开。
Crack them.
接下来就靠你自己了。
You're on your own.
所以他只能自己动手做筏子。
So, he has to make his own raft.
他一个人在这儿。
He's here on his own.
是的。
Yeah.
完完全全靠自己。
Completely on his own.
没错。
Totally.
对。
Yeah.
到这个时候，他所有的同伴都已不在了。
He's lost all of his comrades at this point.
他们都死了。
They're all dead.
有时候是他的责任。
Some sometimes it's his fault.
有时候是他们的责任。
Sometimes it's their fault.
有时候两者都有，但人全都没了。
Sometimes both, but they're all gone.
你知道吗，他带了十二艘船去特洛伊，我觉得是这样。
You know, 12 ships, I think, is what he took to Troy.
所以死了不少人。
So a lot of guys dead.
他只能自己造船。
And he has to make his own boat.
这其实是个很有深意的时刻。
And that's a really interesting symbolic moment there.
奥德修斯，我们之前说过，雅典娜是他的守护神。
So, Odysseus is We talked about Athena being his patron goddess.
雅典娜是工艺之神。
Athena is the god of craft.
她也是一位女战神。
She's a kind of warrior goddess.
她是一位处女神。
She's a virgin goddess.
她常被描绘成手持长矛、头戴头盔，但她的战斗方式更偏向用智谋和巧计赢得战争。
She's depicted with the spear and the helmet, but she's she's a warrior goddess in the sense that sometimes you need to win wars through trickery and craft.
她也是纺织的女神。
She is also the goddess of like weaving.
她是橄榄树的守护神。
She's goddess of the the olive.
橄榄树是一种很家常的树。
Olive tree is a is a very domestic tree.
你知道，得种下去，等上好多年才能收获像样的果实。
You know, you have to plant it and wait many years before it ever gives you anything worthwhile.
树越老，结的橄榄就越多。
And the older and older it gets, the more and more olives it makes.
这象征着文明。
So, this is the sign of civilization.
雅典娜是文明的女神，也带点技术之神的意味。
Athena is this goddess of civilization and also kind of a goddess of technology.
所以，奥德修斯会造一艘结实的船，这一点很重要。
So, the fact that Odysseus knows how to make his own boat, a seaworthy boat, is kind of important.
这很有象征意义，因为他即将出海，而大海是波塞冬的领域，他是代表狂野自然的神。
It's kind of symbolic that and and and and he's about to go into sea, which is the realm of Poseidon, who is this god of wild nature.
他是海上的风暴之神，也是地震之神，代表了自然的原始力量。
He's the the god of storms at sea, earthquakes, you know, the brute force of nature.
所以，奥德修斯将用雅典娜所代表的技术去对抗这些原始力量，而波塞冬的世界恰恰完美地体现了这一点。
And, so Odysseus is gonna confront those brute forces, the Poseidon world, with the kind of technology of Athena that's really encapsulated well in that image.
在整个故事中，这种对立都非常重要，因为
And this is a really important kind of polarity with throughout the whole story because
又是秩序与混乱。
Order and chaos again.
没错。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
实际上，希腊人就是用这种二元对立的方式来理解世界的。
And this is actually the Greeks really think of the world in these binaries.
你明白吧？
You know?
有文明和野蛮，自然和文化，男性和女性。
There's civilization and barbarism, nature and culture, male and female.
还有煮熟的和生的，你知道的。
There is, cooked and raw, you know?
这里的人是把食物煮熟了吃，还是生着吃？
Do do the people here eat eat their food cooked or do they eat it raw?
这其实是人和动物、人和野蛮人的一个分界线。
That's kind of a dividing point between man and animal or man kind of wild men.
所以，整部故事里，奥德修斯明显站在其中一边。
So, you know, Odysseus is clearly on one side of that through through throughout the story.
稍后我们就会明白，这为什么重要。
And, and we'll see why it matters in a little bit.
他离开了卡吕普索的岛屿。
But so he he escapes the island of Calypso.
他得想办法离开，而且还得讲究方式方法。
He has to kind of and he has to do it nicely too.
对吧？
Right?
得好好说再见，毕竟没事儿别得罪女神。
Like, has to have a an amicable breakup because you don't you don't want to piss off a goddess if you don't have to.
然后他来到一片高地，船已经造好了。
And then he gets to this highland of They've built the ship.
他已经把船建好了。
So he's built the boat.
没错。
Yes.
他造了一艘木筏。
He builds the raft.
虽然不算结实，但能海上航行。
Not a great raft, but it's seaworthy.
他在海上漂了二十天，一直在航行，航行，不停地航行。
And he's at sea for, you know He ends up being at sea for twenty days, sailing, sailing, sailing.
后来波塞冬开完派对，跟埃塞俄比亚人玩够了，一看：‘这怎么回事？’
And at some point, Poseidon finishes his party with the Ethiopians and he's like, what the hell?
他立刻掀起风暴，把奥德修斯的木筏砸了个粉碎，奥德修斯只好跳海，拼命游向岸边。
And he smashes Odysseus' raft with a storm and, Odysseus eventually has to swim to sea to swim to to shore.
卡吕普索临走前送了他好多高档华贵的衣袍。
Calypso gave him all of these, you know, fine luxurious robes as a parting gift.
但他必须把这些全脱掉，不然穿着它们，他准会沉下去淹死。
And he has to take all that off because because if he keeps it on, he's gonna sink and die.
最后他狼狈地爬上了这片新土地，浑身赤裸——我觉得这特别有象征意义。
So he he ends up kind of scrambling ashore on this new land totally naked, which I think is very symbolic.
这简直就像一场死亡与重生。
It's a kind of death and rebirth.
对。
Yeah.
简直像受洗一样。
Almost like baptism.
他好不容易爬上岸，直接倒在一颗橄榄树下昏了过去。
And he gets to shore and just collapses underneath an olive bush.
后来他醒了过来，因为一个球滚到了他身边的草丛里。
And then he wakes up because a ball bounced into the grass next to him.
他这才意识到，自己来到了一个有人烟的地方。
And, he discovers that he's he's on a civilized place.
这里确实有其他人。
There are humans there.
事实上，一群年轻漂亮的姑娘正在河边洗衣服。
In fact, a bunch of, you know, attractive nubile young ladies are washing washing some clothes in this little river.
这时候，他得赶紧想个办法了。
And, and so he, you know, has to come up with a plan at that point.
这个场景特别精彩，因为接下来他旅程的几个阶段，都跟如何妥善对待卡吕普索有关，至少他尽力了。
Like, so this is a great scene because basically the next couple of stages for his journey have to do just like kind of like treating Calypso well, to the extent he could.
他得依靠这些女性的主动性和帮助，才能获得接下来所需的帮助，好回到家，实现他的目标。
He has to he has to really use women's agency to get him what he needs next, to get home, to to to accomplish his goal.
他遇到的第一个女孩，正好是这个岛上的公主。
And the first girl that he first woman he meets happens to be the princess of the island.
后来他才知道，她是国王和王后的女儿。
She's the the daughter of the of the king and queen as he finds out.
她的名字叫斯奇卡。
Her name is now Sicca.
这个场景在很多画作里都有描绘。
There's a lot of, like, paintings of this scene.
《奥德赛》里的场景不少，但这个尤其经典。
I mean, many scenes of The Odyssey, but this one in particular.
奥德修斯一丝不挂，从灌木丛里走出来，手里拿着一根小树枝挡在身前，勉强保点尊严。
Odysseus is stark naked, and, he emerges from his bush, and he holds a little, like, branch in front of his private parts so that, to to have a little bit of dignity.
他朝那些女孩走过去，结果她们全都尖叫着四散逃开，因为他看起来实在太吓人了。
And, you know, approaches these girls, and all of them just, like, scream and run away because he looks horrific.
我的意思是，这时候他看起来大概就像《荒岛余生》里的汤姆·汉克斯，浑身都是盐渍，那些女孩心里肯定在想：这人该不会要发疯了吧？
I mean, he he probably looks like Tom Hanks from from Castaway at this point, and he's caked in brine, and, you they're thinking, is this guy gonna try to Savage.
发疯伤害我们。
Savage us.
是啊。
Yep.
伤害？拜托，别这样。
Ravage Oh, please, no.
船长，别伤害我。
Mister Seaman, don't savage me.
这确实是其中一部分。
And that that is an aspect of it.
这里有一种紧张的气氛。
There's this kind of like tension.
所有女孩都吓跑了，只有公主留了下来。
So all the all the girls run away except the the the princess.
现在，塞壬呢，她比其他人都高。
Now, Sirens like, she's taller than the rest.
她也比其他人都漂亮。
She's more attractive than the rest.
她明显比其他人更勇敢。
She's clearly braver than the rest.
她就站在那儿，等着他给自己一个解释。
And she's just standing there waiting for him to explain himself.
她二十岁了，荷马告诉我们。
And she's 20, Homer tells us.
他一步步把气氛推到这儿。
He builds up to this.
她跑到海边的时候，满脑子想的都是婚姻。
She went down to the coast thinking about marriage, with like marriage on her mind.
她想洗洗衣服，打扮得漂漂亮亮的，在镇上转转，看看有没有年轻小伙子对她有意思。
She wants to like clean some clothes and look nice and sort of make an appearance around town and see if any of the young men want to, you know, make a pass at her.
她已经准备好迈向下一步了。
She's ready to kind of move on to the next stage.
于是，奥德修斯隔着几步远跟她搭话。
And so, you know, Odysseus addresses her from a few feet off.
天啊，美丽的姑娘，公主殿下。
Wow, fair maiden, princess.
我不确定您是女神还是凡人。
I don't know whether you're a goddess or a mortal.
天啊，我从来没见过像您这样的人。
Wow, you are just I've never seen anything like you.
您实在太美了。
You're so beautiful.
我曾经见过一样东西，差不多有您这么美。
One time I saw something that was almost as beautiful as you.
那是德尔os岛上阿波罗祭坛旁一棵小棕榈树，当时我正带领一群人前往那里。
It was this little palm tree that grew up by the altar of Apollo at Delos, I was leading many men there.
所以他正在向她简单介绍自己，展现自己是个有身份的人。
So, he's kind of giving her a little backstory about himself as a respectable man.
他说：如果你是神明，愿你的父母或兄弟幸福；如果你是凡人，愿你找到一位好丈夫——他稍微挑逗了一下这种不确定性。
He says, May your parents or your brothers be happy if you're immortal, and may you find a great husband, kind of playing on the tension a little bit.
你能给我一条毛巾，带我去镇上吗？
And could you please get me a towel and show me to the town?
她确实有点被打动了。
And she's kind of flattered.
他成功吸引了她。
He's charmed her.
他早就抓住了她的心。
He's like already got her charm.
他完全没提自己家里还有妻子和孩子。
And he doesn't refer to the fact that he's got a wife and kid at home.
他故意隐瞒这件事，一点点地引诱她。
He's just kind of concealing that and kind of luring her in a little bit.
她呢，说来话短，最后还是告诉了他该怎么做。
She, you know, long story short, she ends up, telling him what he needs to do.
就是去跟我妈妈——女王谈谈。
And that is go talk to my mom, the queen.
她虽然不是说了算的那个人，但她是接近国王的捷径。
Not that she totally runs the show, but she's kind of like the backdoor to get to the king.
她妈妈叫阿瑞忒，是这座岛的王后。
Her mom is Arete, who is the, the prince the queen of the island.
奥德修斯于是去了那里，悄悄独自溜进了王宫。
And Odysseus makes his way there and he kind of sneaks into the palace alone.
她给他的可不止一条毛巾。
And she does give him more than a towel.
她的侍女们还给了他像样的衣服，以及擦身用的香油。
She actually, you know, her handmaidens like give him some actual clothes and some oil to rub himself.
他到河里去洗了个澡。
He takes a bath in the river.
所以他看起来顺眼多了，没那么像个野蛮的海员。
So he looks a little better, less like a wild sea man.
他悄悄走进去，抱住阿瑞忒的膝盖，说：‘夫人，我漂泊了无数天，遭遇海难，只求能平安回家。’
And he sneaks in and he embraces Arete by the knees and says, Oh lady, I've traveled many days and been shipwrecked and I'm just trying to make my way home.
求您了，我向您恳求，因为宙斯是庇护恳求者的神。
Please, I supplicate you as Zeus is the god of suppliance.
您能帮帮我吗？
Would you please help me?
总之就是一堆话。
Blah blah blah.
他说得动听，她便回应：‘好吧，外乡人。’
And he speaks well, and she says, alright, stranger.
你看起来像个有教养的贵族。
You seem like a decent noble man.
让我带你去见我丈夫。
Let me introduce you to my husband.
她把他介绍给了阿尔喀诺俄斯国王。
She introduces him to Alcinomas, the king.
奥德修斯那叫一个魅力满分，简直无可挑剔。
And Odysseus just like, you know, charisma 11 out of 10.
光凭一张嘴，他就成功赢得了岛上王室的好感。
Like he charms his way into the ruling family of the island just with his words.
甚至在他们还不知道他名字的时候，就主动提出要把女儿嫁给他。
And in fact, before they even know his name, they offer their daughter in marriage to him.
这正好说明了他为什么这么出名。
It just gives you a sense of this is what he's famous for.
对吧？
Right?
说服力。
Persuasion.
但要是他跟公主或者她母亲搞砸了，那可就性命难保了。
But he you know, if if he had screwed it up with the princess, if he had screwed it up with her mother, he could have he could have lost his head, basically.
如果他冒犯了对方，哪怕只是流露出一点敌意，事情就全完了。
If he had offended him somehow, if he had, you know, savaged or given any hint of savaging, would be would have been over.
这些女性很有影响力，但同时也非常危险。
So these women have power, but they're dangerous too.
你懂的。
You know?
她们的态度可能随时转变。
They could go either way.
接着，她们为他举办了一场盛大的宴会。
And and then, basically, they throw a feast for him.
她们说：我们会送你回家。
They say, we'll get you home.
我们一定会送你回去。
We're going to send you home.
当然，他婉拒了这门婚事。
And he declines the marriage invitation, of course.
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