凯特·萨默维尔谈选择道路与从骗局中汲取教训

本期节目由Square赞助，它是企业主收款、预约、管理员工以及一站式运营的便捷方式。在节目和我的书中，我总强调拥有多重收入流的重要性。但如何从爱好转变为副业呢？答案是Square。我在现实生活中见证了无数次。

Support for today's episode comes from Square, the easy way for business owners to take payments, book appointments, manage staff, and keep everything running in one place. On this show and in my books, I always talk about how important it is to have multiple streams of income. But how do you actually go from hobby to hustle? The answer, Square. I have seen it so many times in real life.

就在上周末的农贸市场，有位妈妈在卖香蕉面包。我们超爱香蕉面包，我忍不住买了。以前我可能会错过，因为我从不带现金。但有了Square，她几秒钟就能刷我的卡。我吃到了美味点心。

Just this weekend at the farmer's market, there was a mom selling banana bread. We love banana bread, and I could not resist. In the past, I might have missed out because I never carry cash. But with Square, she was able to take my card in seconds. I got my delicious treat.

她收到了付款，我们双方都无需操心。Square提供全套商业工具，无需合同或复杂流程。还等什么？现在访问square.com/go/mnn，Square硬件立减高达200美元。网址是square.com/g0/mnnasinmoneynewsnetwork。

She got paid, and neither of us had to stress. With Square, you can get all the tools to run your business with none of the contracts or complexity. And why wait? Right now, you get up to $200 off Square hardware at square.com/go/mnn. That's square.com/g0/mnnasinmoneynewsnetwork.

用Square更智能地经营业务。立即开始吧。今年秋天我和丈夫要去大苏尔，特别兴奋。我们在庆祝结婚纪念日。虽然会非常想念小家伙，但也很期待享受二人世界。

Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today. I am so excited to head up to Big Sur with my husband this fall. We are celebrating our anniversary. And while I will miss the little mush so much, we are also really excited to have a little parents' time.

这是我们应得的。但你知道，这让我想到那种感觉：出门旅行时总会想知道毛孩子在你不在时在做什么。其实它可能正在为你赚钱。我做爱彼迎房东很久了，一直推荐朋友们也这样做，因为这是利用已有资产（你的房子）赚取被动收入的绝佳方式。但我有些特别忙的朋友担心做爱彼迎房东会像第二份工作。

We deserve that. But, you know, it got me thinking about this feeling when you walk out of the door for a trip and you wonder what your blaze is doing while you're gone. Well, it turns out it could be working for you. I've been hosting on Airbnb for forever now, and I tell all of my friends to do the same because it's an amazing way to make passive income from an asset you already have: your home. But some of my friends who are super busy worry that hosting on Airbnb would feel like having a second job.

这时我就会告诉他们爱彼迎的协管房东网络。任何你无暇顾及的事，协管房东都能代为处理：创建房源、管理预订、接待客人、提供现场支持，甚至负责设计和布置。所以无论你是出差、避寒，还是有处总空着的第二居所，你的房子都不必闲置。相反，你可以额外赚点钱，而无需增加工作负担。

And that's when I tell them about Airbnb's cohost network. Anything you don't have the bandwidth to do, a cohost can handle for you. They can create your listing, manage reservations, manage guests, provide on-site support, even handle design and styling. So whether you're traveling for work or you're escaping the winter, or if you have a second place that just sits empty way too often, your home doesn't have to sit on the sidelines. Instead, you can earn a little extra cash without adding another job to your plate.

在airbnb.com/host 寻找协管房东。嘿，朋友们。准备好参加理财康复课了吗？华尔街已被一个意想不到的玩家彻底颠覆——游戏驿站。

Find a cohost at airbnb.com/host. Hey, guys. Are you ready for some money rehab? Wall Street has been completely upended by an unlikely player, GameStop.

那我应该有个401k退休计划吗？

And should I have a four zero one k?

因为那样就该我来做吗？

Because then I do it?

不，我知道。

No. I know.

听着。你以为整个世界都围着你和你钱转吗？其实并不是。

Open. You think the whole world revolves around you and your money? Well, it doesn't.

浪费我们时间要收费的。我会收支票，就像

Charge for wasting our time. I will take a check like

一条金鱼。她在CNN、CNBC和彭博社担任主播，你应该认得她。她是唯一不需要查字典就能听懂的金融专家，妮可·拉平。如你所知，在《财务康复》节目中，我们聚焦变革者——那些在各个层面推动变革的公众人物，他们曾经或可能仍在经历财务康复。今天，我对话的是凯特·萨默维尔，护肤品牌的创始人及同名品牌主理人。

a goldfish. Recognize her from anchoring on CNN, CNBC, and Bloomberg. The only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand, Nicole Lappin. As you know, on Money Rehab, we feature changemakers, public figures making change in every sense of the word, and along the way have been in, or might still be, in money rehab. Today, I'm talking to Kate Somerville, the founder and namesake, of course, of the skincare brand.

凯特是一位非常聪明、精明的企业家，我很高兴邀请她上节目，因为每次交谈我都能学到东西。但请她来也是因为她有着鼓舞人心的故事。她早年命运多舛，但在一个关键时刻，她决心扭转人生——而且她做到了。

Kate is a really smart, savvy entrepreneur, and I'm excited to have her on the show because I always learn something each time I talk to her. But I also wanted to have her on the show because she has such an inspiring story. She was dealt a really difficult hand early in life. But in the span of one crucial moment, she decided to try to turn her life around. And she did.

我认为她的故事对那些正在经历困难时期的人，或者任何已经度过难关但仍从战斗创伤中恢复的人都有帮助。不过还是让她自己来讲吧。凯特，欢迎来到《金钱康复营》。在我们深入之前，我们先来玩一轮'我从未做过'游戏。你以前玩过'我从未做过'吗？

I think her story is helpful for those who are going through something challenging or for anyone who has made it through a challenging time and is still healing from the battle wounds. But I'll let her tell it. So Kate, welcome to Money Rehab. So before we dive in, we start with a quick round of Never Have I Ever. Have you played Never Have I Ever before?

我没玩过，所以很期待玩这个游戏。

I have not, so I'm excited to play it.

好的。很好。通常这个游戏会涉及喝酒，但可惜我们现在没有酒。所以如果你做过某件事，就说'我做过'。如果没做过，就说'我没做过'。

Okay. Good. Well, normally it has alcohol involved, but unfortunately, we don't have that now. So if you have done something, just say I have. And if you haven't, just say I haven't.

好的。太棒了。我准备好了。花我的钱吧。钱。

Okay. Great. I'm ready. Spend my money. Money.

我从未谈判过合同。

Never have I ever negotiated a contract.

我做过。

I have.

我从未开过个人退休账户(IRA)。

Never have I ever opened an IRA.

我有过。

I have.

我从未透支过。

Never have I ever overdrafted.

哦，我有过。是的。

Oh, I have. Yes.

我从未买过彩票。

Never have I ever bought a lottery ticket.

我有过。

I have.

我从未写过遗嘱。

Never have I ever written a will.

我写过遗嘱。是的。

I have written a will. Yeah.

我从未投资过加密货币。

Never have I ever invested in cryptocurrency.

我投过。你投过吗？我19岁的儿子投过。是的。

I have. You have? My 19 year old son. Yeah.

我从未有过买家后悔症。

Never have I ever had buyer's remorse.

哦，我有过买家后悔症。而且我有个故事要告诉你，因为我丈夫和我第一次被骗了，我们觉得自己真的很蠢。所以我可能会在这个播客里讲讲这个故事，让大家警惕。

Oh, I've had buyer buyer's remorse. And I have a story for you because I we just got my husband and I got scammed for the first time, and we feel like we feel really stupid. So I'll tell you about that story maybe in this podcast so people can watch out for it.

是的。任何能帮助他人的事都值得做，因为骗子越来越聪明了。顺便说一句，我在这档节目里伏击过一个骗子，特别搞笑。我从未因钱和恋人争吵过。

Yes. Anything you can do to help others because the scammers are getting so smart. By the way, I did ambush a scammer on this It was hilarious. Never have I ever argued with a romantic partner about money.

我们吵过。但我们是一个团队。你知道吗？如果他有什么想法，我们会一起商量。我们是非常好的搭档，彼此之间没有秘密。

We have. But we we're a team. You know? We we if if he wants to do something, we mull it over. We're a really good team, and we don't hide stuff from each other.

这是另一点。所以我们超级透明。

That's the other thing. So we're super transparent.

我从未创办过公司。

Never have I ever founded a company.

我创办过公司。实际上，创办过好几家。是的。所以，

I have founded a company. Actually, several. So yep. So,

凯特，跟我说说这个骗局是怎么回事。

Kate, tell me about this scam.

我从小就会滑水。我喜欢待在船上。这就像是我的一种生活方式，对吧？我超爱在湖上的感觉。

I grew up water skiing. Like, I love being on a boat. Like, it's just kinda my thing. Right? I love being in a lake.

我超爱鲍威尔湖。所以我丈夫想给我一个惊喜，买了一艘滑水艇。他做了很多研究，他是个超级爱研究的人，我们所有的车和摩托车都是他买的，因为我们家挺爱运动的。他在 Boat Trader 上买了这艘船，跟卖家发了几次消息，聊了好几次。他们还有个很精致的网站，我们就下单了。

I love Lake Powell. And so my husband went to surprise me with a ski boat and he went and researched. He's a big time researcher on like, he's bought all of our cars and our motorcycles and because we're kind of active family and he bought this boat and it was on Boat Trader. And he was messaging with the guy and talked to him a couple of times. They had an elaborate website and we ordered it.

我们电汇了钱，他们说五天内会送到。结果第二天船没到，我们收到了通知。我立马就觉得不对劲。他们回邮件说船出事故了，叫我们什么都不用做。

We wired the money and they said, Okay, it'll be there in five days. We paid shipping and we got a notice the next day because it didn't show up. And I instantly was like, There's something really wrong. And they emailed us back and said, The boat has been in an accident. No need to do anything.

保险会处理，五天内退款。除了 Boat Trader 上的广告，所有网站都下线了，但广告还在。我们联系了 Boat Trader，但钱全没了。

Insurance is going to take care of it. You'll have your money refunded within five days. All the websites got taken down except the Boat Trader ad. It's still up. We contacted Boat Trader and we lost all of our money.

而且我们毫无办法。我们联系了FBI，因为这是跨州案件，而且这事就发生在上周。昨晚我丈夫又给我们买了另一艘船，今天刚到。所以对于买船这件事，我现在很后悔。这更让我丈夫难受。

And there's no recourse. We called the FBI because it's interstate and this literally just happened last week. And last night, my husband bought us another boat and it arrived today. So the boat situation, I have buyer's remorse. It kicks my husband more.

他睡不着觉。他说，我简直不敢相信会发生这种事。所以大家一定要小心。现在骗局变得非常复杂。涉及很多人。

He can't sleep. He's like, I can't believe this happened. So just be careful out there. It's getting really complicated. There's multiple people.

我儿子上网查了，他很擅长网络调查，发现骗子是去凤凰城图书馆操作电脑，这样就没法追踪他们。他们一收到钱就关闭了账户，富国银行的账户，钱就没了。我们只能向FBI报案，但我的会计师说，现在这类诈骗特别多，尤其是在疫情期间，特别是涉及房车、船只和拖车的交易，因为这类需求激增，大家都想找点事做而不是去旅行。

My son went online. He's really good online and he found out that the scammer was going to the Phoenix library and the Phoenix library, that's where they're doing their computer work, so nobody can trace them. They closed the account. Soon as the money hit, they closed the account, Wells Fargo account, and it's gone. And all we did was make a report to the FBI, but my accountant's like, there's so many of these going on right now, especially through COVID and especially through RVs, boats, trailers, because there's been this up tick and everybody wanting to find something to do instead of travel.

所以Boat Trader网站也很难杜绝这些骗局。大家一定要小心。而且这笔钱数目不小。就这么没了。看起来我们确实无计可施。

So boat trader is having a problem keeping these things off their site. So be careful, you guys. And it was a considerable amount of money. So and it's gone. Like, there's no recourse for us, apparently.

富国银行也没做任何事。

And Wells Fargo didn't Nothing.

没有人帮助过我们。

Not nobody has helped us.

哎呀呀。那么对于想要在线进行大额购物的人，你有什么建议？

Yai yai. So what would be the tip to give others looking for a big purchase online?

唉，可悲的是，你甚至不能去看看那艘船，比如对我们或你购买的任何东西，去看看它，确保它确实存在，并且上网查一查。如果我丈夫当时在网上多查一下，就会发现一些线索，表明这是个骗局，好得令人难以置信，因为那艘船的价格实在太低了。所以，如果好得不像真的，就别做。另一件事是，这艘船显然在佛罗里达，而我们买的那艘也在佛罗里达。这就是困难的部分，但如果你能确认是真正的船主，并且和船主交谈，是的，所以只要跟进并做好你的研究。

Well, the sad thing is, is you can't even can't you go see the boat, like for us or whatever you're purchasing, go see it, make sure it exists because and and look online. Like if my husband would have dug a little bit more online, there were keys to like, this was a scam, this was too good to be true, because the boat was priced really good. So if it's too good to be true, don't do it. The other thing I can say is this boat was apparently in Florida and the boat that we bought was in Florida. And so that's the hard part, but if you can make sure it's a true owner and you speak to the owner, yeah, so just follow and do your research.

检查广告看看有没有任何骗局的迹象，因为很多人被这个团伙骗过。有数百人受害。对我来说，我很庆幸自己经济上还好，但对一些人来说，这确实是一大笔钱，让我们很受伤，很糟糕，但有些人失去的钱是他们真的承受不起的。所以大家要小心。

Check the ad to see if there's any kind of scam things, because a lot of people have been scammed by this ring. There was hundreds of people. And, you know, for me, I'm so grateful that I'm financially okay, but some of these people, this was, you know, this was a lot of money to us for sure, and it stung and it was awful, but some of these people are losing money that they really can't afford to lose. So just be careful out there.

是的，绝对如此。非常感谢你分享这个警示故事。而你的同名公司，当然，始于一个如此鼓舞人心的故事。凯特，这真是一个活生生的例子，展示了如何战胜困境。

Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you so much for that cautionary tale. And your namesake company, of course, starts with such an inspiring story. It is truly, Kate, a real life example of how someone can defy difficult circumstances.

我们之前谈过这个，但如果你能和我们的观众分享你的故事，我会很感激，因为我觉得它能引起很多人的共鸣。你能告诉我你成长的家庭生活吗？

We've talked about this before, but I'd love if you can share your story with our audience because I think it can speak to a lot of people. Can you tell me about your family life growing up?

我成长在一个双亲都是教师的家庭。妈妈在我九岁时离开了我爸爸，我和爸爸住在一起，因为我妈妈显然走上了一条不稳定的道路，她变成了一个严重的酗酒者。我说严重，意思是，我不知道底线还能有多低。我以为底线在之前几层就已经到了，但没想到还能低到这么疯狂的地步。我妈妈最终无家可归，一颗牙都不剩。

I grew up, two parents, both teachers. Mom at nine left my dad, and I stayed with my dad because my mom was definitely going down an unstable path and she became a severe alcoholic. And when I say like severe, like, I didn't know the bottom could be the bottom. Like, I thought the bottom was, you know, several layers before it got to such crazy bottom. But my mom ended up homeless, not a tooth in her head.

有时候我开车经过，她就在公交车站，简直神志不清。我的成长非常动荡。我每隔一个周末不得不和她住在一起。最后我爸爸觉得太危险了。你知道，我处境非常艰难，不得不看着她崩溃。

There was times where I would drive by and she was on a bus stop, like literally out of her mind. I grew up very tumultuous. I had to live with her every other weekend. And then finally my dad saw it was just too dangerous. You know, I was in really tough situations and I had to watch her disintegrate.

所以她去世了。这太疯狂了，因为她去世的时候，我的公司凯特·萨默维尔刚刚被选中进入奥斯卡礼品袋。我妈妈酗酒非常严重，我送她进了三次康复中心，但都没能坚持下来。

So she died. It was so crazy because she died right as I was my business, Kate Somerville, had just been picked to go into the Oscar bag. So my mom was such a bad alcoholic. I put her through three rehabs. They never stuck.

她曾是一位了不起的女性。她拥有硕士学位，是一名教师，极具艺术天赋。但酒精和毒品就这样毁了她。

And she was an amazing woman. She had her master's degree. She was a teacher. She was super artistic. And the alcohol and drugs just took her.

而我父亲是个性格强势的人。他是一名橄榄球教练，在我大约11岁时再婚了。这对我来说是个非常艰难的过渡，因为他娶的那个女人有两个孩子，我们虽然住在一起，但关系很紧张。所以15岁时，我开始接受心理咨询，我永远不会忘记我的咨询师看着我说：‘你有没有别的地方可以去？’她说，‘真不敢相信我在问一个15岁的孩子这个问题。’

And my dad was this strong character. He was a football coach, and he remarried when I was about 11. And that was a really tough transition for me because the woman that he married had two kids and and we we lived together, but it was a difficult relationship. So at 15, I was in counseling and I'll never forget my counselor looked at me and said, Is there anywhere you can go? She goes, I can't believe I'm asking a 15 year old this.

但她接着说，‘我认为你需要离开家，因为你的状况很不好。’那时我浑身都是荨麻疹和湿疹，非常挣扎。我说，‘是的。’然后我就开始在不同的朋友家借宿。

But she goes, I think that you need to get out of your house because you're not doing well. Like, I had hives and eczema all over my body. I was just struggling. And I said, Yeah. And I started kind of couch surfing with my friends.

19岁时，我遇到了这位不可思议的女性，她叫芭芭拉·威尔斯。她患有癌症，已经与癌症抗争了十二年。她有三个孩子，她的丈夫在她患癌期间为了一个更年轻的女人离开了她。她是个家庭主妇，没有收入来源。

I met this incredible woman when I was 19 and her name was Barbara Wells and she had cancer. She had cancer for twelve years. She had three kids. Her husband had left her for a younger woman during cancer. She had no way of making money because she was a homemaker.

我就这样闯入了她的生活，她给了我最无条件的爱，但也是严厉的爱。有一天她对我说：‘嘿，你可以继续沿着现在的路走下去，做一个受害者，沉浸在悲伤中。但你知道吗，你现在有选择了。你19岁了，是个成年人了。’

And I just landed in her home and she gave me the most unconditional love, but tough love. So one day she said to me, she's like, Hey, you you can keep going down the path you're going and be a victim and be sad. But she goes, You know, you have a choice now. You're 19. You're an adult.

‘你可以选择你的人生要怎么过。你只需要做出选择，选择你的道路。’我当时很震惊，心想：‘什么？’因为我真的不知道我不必生活在混乱中——作为一个孩子，你生活在混乱里，你会以为那是正常的。

You can choose what your life is set to be. You just choose it and you choose the path. And I was like, What? Like, I really didn't know that I didn't have to live in chaos because as a kid, you live in chaos. You think that's normal.

于是，我豁然开朗，从那之后我彻底改变了我的生活。我搬到了坎布里亚，那是一个小小的海滨小镇，就在坎布里亚的中部。我打了三份服务员的工作，就在我决定‘不，我要按照我想要的方式去生活和设计人生’的那一刻，我的生活改变了。我之前住在弗雷斯诺，但我一直想住在海边，从那时起，生活开始真正转变。

And and so a light bulb went on for me and I changed my life right after that. I moved to Cambria, which is this tiny little coast, this coastal town in the middle of Cambria. I got three waitressing jobs and my life changed at that moment when I said, No, I'm going to live and design it the way I wanted to. And I lived in Fresno. I always wanted to live at the beach and that's when life started changing.

我不会说那段经历不难，因为它确实艰难。作为一个孩子，我内心依然承载着那种动荡。我带着许多不信任，许多需要解开的心结，但我只是不断追随善意的指引，追寻我脑海中的愿景。

And I'm not going to say it wasn't difficult because it was. I still carried that turmoil as a kid. I carried a lot of non trust, a lot of things I had to unwind, but I just kept, you know, following the signs of goodness and going for what my vision was in my head.

这段早期经历促成了一次重要的合作。能和我聊聊这个吗？

That early history has led to an important partnership. Can you tell me about that?

我们与Foster Nation建立了合作。这些从寄养系统出来的孩子，我能真正理解他们的处境，因为他们从未拥有稳定的童年。有些孩子辗转于50到100个家庭之间，不得不频繁转学。

We have partnered with Foster Nation. These kids that are coming out of foster care, can relate to, right? I can really relate to where they are because they haven't had a stable childhood. Some of these kids have been in 50 to 100 homes. They've had to change schools.

他们在自己家里却感觉像陌生人。有些人遭受过虐待，但这根本不是他们的错，对吧？他们可能和我一样，父母中有吸毒者——妮可，这个国家每五个孩子就有一个受父母药物滥用影响。也可能父母一方或双方都不在了。

They feel like strangers in their home. Some of them have been abused, and it's not any fault of their own, right? They could have been like me, right, where they've had a parent. One in five children, Nicole, in this country is affected by a parent that has substance abuse. Maybe one of their parents passed away or both of their parents.

这些孩子面临着重重困难。我们承诺要指导这些走出寄养系统的孩子。我无比激动的是，我生命中所有负面经历如今正转化为帮助他人的力量，帮助那些可能有过类似甚至更糟遭遇的人。这真的太令人振奋了。

So these kids have been up against a lot of odds. And so we have pledged to mentor these kids coming out of foster care. I'm just so excited that all of the negative in my life is now turning into helping somebody that may have been in my shoes or and much worse, let me tell you. So super exciting.

各位观众请准备好，Money Rehab稍后继续。现在回到Money Rehab节目。我也非常激动，这完全引起了我的共鸣——我也是那个统计数字中的一员。

Hold on to your wallets, boys and girls. Money Rehab will be right back. Now for some more Money Rehab. I'm super excited too, and it absolutely resonates with me. I was one of those statistics as well.

公平地说，凯特，我认为创伤不是一场竞赛。你有你的苦难，他们有他们的苦难，我也有我的苦难。如果这对你来说是痛苦的，那就是痛苦的。

And I don't think, to be fair, Kate, that trauma is a competition. You've had your shit. They've had their shit. I've had my shit. If it's bad for you, it's bad.

所以我想提醒你，这并非一场竞赛，你从那段经历中学到了很多。我认为它让你变得更坚强了。你说过，遇见芭芭拉让你意识到，仅仅因为事情一直以某种方式运作，并不意味着它就必须如此。金钱方面也是如此吗？我猜你母亲没有给你任何关于金钱的教导或基础，但这是否也是财务上的一个转折点？

So I just wanna remind you that this is not a competition here and you have learned so much from that time. I think it's made you so much stronger. You said that, you know, meeting Barbara helped you realize that just because it's always been done a certain way doesn't mean it's the way it needs to be. Was that with money as well? I'm assuming from your mother, you didn't get any money lessons or foundation, but was that a turning point financially as well?

哦，当然。说实话，妮可，即使到今天，金钱对我来说仍然是一件可怕的事情。我现在是创始人，也卖掉了公司，但我曾是一家大公司的CEO，肩负着很多责任。我经常和许多聪明人共处一室，他们可能上过哈佛，知道如何阅读电子表格和处理合同。而我不得不边做边学，努力让合适的人围绕在我身边，以防自己被利用。

Oh, for sure. So, you know, even to this day, Nicole, money is a scary thing for me, to be honest with you. I'm now founder and I sold my company, but I was CEO of a big company and I had a lot of responsibility. And I was in a lot of rooms with a lot of smart people that may have gone to Harvard and, you know, and they knew how to read spreadsheets and do contracts. And I had to kind of learn on the fly and try and put the right people around me to keep me from getting taken advantage of.

我确实被利用过。我不会说我没有。

And I I did get taken advantage of. I'm not gonna say that I didn't.

听着，不管怎样，金钱都是一种心理折磨。有钱时是，没钱时也是。无论哪种情况，你都会感到尴尬。

Listen, money is a mind fuck no matter what. If you have it, it is. If you don't, it is. You're embarrassed both ways.

是的。所以金钱并不邪恶。它是一种创造性的工具，能够激发创造力。关键在于你如何使用它。当我第一次取得成功时，我就像，哦，这些钱不能随便花，因为我知道曾经为了汽油费而凑零钱的滋味。

Yeah. So money is not evil. It's a creative tool to be able to be creative. It's what you do with it. When I first got successful, I was like, Oh, like this money can't go anywhere because I know what it was like to like scrounge for change for gas.

所以对我来说，我必须解开一些心结，然后说，好吧，我现在要在这里冒一点险，因为你需要让钱继续流动才能保持创造力，对吧？所以我真的开始思考，金钱并不是负面的，对吧？它也不是安全毯。它来来去去，就像，听着，我刚刚被骗了。对吧。

So for me, I've had to kind of unlock some of that and go, Okay, I'm gonna now risk a little over here and I'm gonna because you've got to keep that money kind of still rolling to be creative, right? And so I had to really start thinking about how money is not a negative, right? And it's not also a safety blanket. It comes and goes like, listen, I just got scammed. Right.

我只是，你知道，这很有趣，就像我晚上躺下时想，嗯，我是这样在心里安慰自己的：我希望这笔钱能养活一个真正他妈需要它的家庭。你知道，即使钱被拿走了，也许它需要被拿走，就像我对宇宙说，我希望它能做些好事。你知道吗？

I just, you know, it's funny, like when I lay down at night and I think about like, I go, well, here's how I put it in my head. I'm like, well, I hope it's feeding a family that really frickin needs it. You know, like even though it got taken and maybe it needed to get taken, like I go universe, like. I hope that it's doing some good. You know?

而且我觉得不要太玄乎，尽管你身后确实有一个巨大的捕梦网，所以我觉得我可以聊这个。是的。我认为金钱方面有很多吸引力法则。我觉得如果你想要它，你就得把它释放出去。这有点像一种势头，即使你觉得，嗯，我想要它，所以我必须守住它、囤积它，对它非常小心。

And I think not to get too woo woo, although you do have a ginormous dream catcher behind you, so I feel like I can go there. Yes. I think there is a lot of law of attraction with money. I think you have if you want it, you have to put it out there. It's sort of like this momentum even though you think, well, I want it, so I have to keep it and hoard it and be really careful with it.

是的，那其实并不是你释放出去以吸引更多金钱的能量。这对我来说也一直是个问题，你知道，来自类似虐待性、动荡的成长背景。我总是想守住它，因为我记得那些挨饿的日子。我记得那些没有食物、没有地方住或诸如此类的日子。是的。

Yeah, that's actually not the energy that you're putting out there to bring more money your way. And that was always an issue for me too coming from, you know, a similar abusive, tumultuous upbringing. I always wanted to keep it because I remember the hungry days. I remember the days when I didn't have food or a place to stay or whatever. Yep.

但我最近也重新构建了这个想法，就像，哦，好吧，我知道那是什么感觉。我经历过，所以让它再来吧。我挺过来了。如果那会发生，酷。是的。

But I also recently have reframed this being like, oh, well, I know what that's like. I've been there, so bring it again. I went through it. If that's gonna happen, cool. Yep.

我懂你。是的。所以我认为你可以通过说，嗯，我不想回到那里，来重新构建那个想法。但如果我回去了，因为唯一不变的就是变化。是的。

I got you. Yep. And so I think that that you can sort of you can reframe that idea by saying, well, I I don't wanna go back there. But if I do because the only constant is change Yeah.

我知道怎么做。

I know how to do it.

挺过去，因为我以前做过，我可以再做一次。

Get through it because I did it before, and I could do it again.

这太有趣了，因为当我准备离开凯特·萨默维尔时，我看着我的丈夫和孩子，他当时大概五岁或六岁，类似那样。我说，嗯，我已经做到了那一步。我学到了很多，我们可以再做一次。你说得对。那是一个很好的思考方式。

It's so funny because when I was about ready to walk away from Kate Somerville, I looked at both my husband and my child, which was a he was five at the time or six, something like that. And I said, well, I did it to that point. I learned a lot and we can do it again. And you're right. That that's a great way to think.

这很有趣，因为我接受心理咨询很多年，对很多事情都有一种基于恐惧的感觉。然后咨询师对我说，听着，当你遇到麻烦或混乱时会发生什么？你擅长解决问题并摆脱困境吗？我说，我非常擅长。对我来说，混乱在小时候是那么平常。

It's so funny because I went to counseling for a lot of years and I had this kind of fear based feeling about a lot of things. And then counselor said to me, she goes, listen, she goes, what happens when you get into trouble or chaos? Are you good at solving problems and getting out of it? And I'm like, I I'm incredible at it. Like chaos for me was so normal as a kid.

所以现在当我陷入混乱时，我感觉很自在。哦，很高兴又见到你。她说，好吧。是的。她就说，好吧。

So now when I get in it, I that's like I'm comfortable. Oh, good to see you again. She goes, Okay. Yeah. She's like, okay.

当不好的事情发生时，要相信你成年后的自己，因为内心的小女孩会说，我害怕。而你会说，好吧，小女孩，你可以害怕。但成年的你会说，我能搞定。

When something bad happens, know in your adult self because the little girl inside going, I'm scared. And you go, okay, little girl, you can be scared. But the adult in you goes, I got this.

那么，经历了所有精彩和不那么精彩的事情之后，你现在会给以前的自己——那个小女孩，小凯特——什么金钱方面的建议？

So with all of the amazing things and not amazing things you've gone through, what would be the one money advice you would now give your former self? That little girl, the little Kate.

不要挥霍无度。你知道，你以为生活中需要某些东西，而我总是把钱花在后来可能并不需要的东西上。我会说，早点开始储蓄。你以为你需要那套特定的衣服。很有趣，我在听一个播客，巴菲特。他叫什么名字来着？

Don't be frivolous. You know, like, you think you need certain things in life, and, you know, I've always spent money on things that maybe I didn't need later on, and I would say earlier on, save, and you think you need that certain outfit. It's so funny, I was listening to a podcast and I Buffett. What's his name?

沃伦。

Warren.

沃伦·巴菲特上节目时说，我需要这个3万美元的发型吗？我当时想，他是什么意思？他的意思是，我要付给这个人30或50美元理发，而这50美元如果我投入股市，二十年后会变成这么多。当他这样一解释，我心想，天啊，我浪费在无谓东西上的钱，如果当时省下来一点投入股票，今天会多出那么多。所以当你到我这个年纪，我51岁了，你会想为人生这个阶段存钱的。

Warren Buffett was on and he said, he said, Do I want this $30,000 haircut? And I was like, What does he mean by that? And what he meant was, I'm going to give this person $30 or $50 for a haircut, and that $50 if I put it into the stock market in twenty years is going to be this much. And I'm like, when he put that into context, I was like, holy moly, the amount of money that I wasted on frivolous things, like if I would have just saved a little and put it into a stock, it would be so much bigger today. And so when you're my age, so I'm 51 and you're going to want to save for this time in your life.

我的岳父在82岁时去世了，他一生挣扎。他曾是位音乐家，在五十年代事业如日中天，但那时他们收入微薄。到了那个年纪，他仍然为钱和生存而忧心忡忡。我当时就想，天啊，我绝不想落到那般境地。

And my father-in-law died at 82, and he struggled. He was a musician. He was at the top of his game in the fifties, but they didn't get paid back then. And he was still really worried about money at that age and and survival. And I thought, God, I just don't want to be there.

所以想想你的未来。你真的需要它吗？如果不需要，就把它放在能增值的地方。这就是我现在想对二十岁的自己说的话。

So think about your future. Do you really need it? Like, if you don't need it, put it somewhere where it can grow. And that that's what I would tell my twenties, twenty, twenty year self at this point.

今天的建议可以直接采纳。我要附和凯特的警告，认真地说，各位，千万不要没亲眼见到实物就在网上大额购物。骗子越来越狡猾，我们谁都可能中招。骗子盯上过我，也找过凯特，说不定下一个就是你。

For today's tip, you can take straight to the bank. I'm going to echo Kate's warnings and say, seriously, guys, do not make big purchases online without seeing the product IRL first. Scammers are getting smarter, and none of us are exempt. Scammers have come for me. They have come for Kate and maybe even you.

所以无论你买的是船、汽车还是书架，务必尽一切可能确保安全。《财富重生》是iHeartRadio出品。我是主持人妮可·拉平，制作人是摩根·拉沃伊和迈克·科萨雷利。

So no matter what you're buying, a boat, a car, or a bookshelf, do everything you can to play it safe. Money. Money Rehab is a production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Our producers are Morgan Lavoie and Mike Coscarelli.

执行制片人是尼基·伊图尔和威尔·皮尔逊。我们的吉祥物是佩妮和米姆西。特别感谢元老级《财富重生》团队，米歇尔·兰兹的开发工作，凯瑟琳·劳的制作与编剧魔法，以及布兰登·迪克的剪辑、工程和音效设计。一如既往感谢你们最终投资自己，从而掌控全局，赢得所有。再见。

Executive producers are Nikki Itur and Will Pearson. Our mascots are Penny and Mimsy. Huge thanks to OG Money Rehab team, Michelle Lands for her development work, Katherine Law for her production and writing magic, and Brandon Dicker for his editing, engineering, and sound design. And as always, thanks to you for finally investing in yourself so that you can get it together and get it all. Hi.