马匹普拉提：听众问答特辑

哈佛商学院高管教育为有志于变革和已有的变革者提供世界级的学习体验。

Harvard Business School Executive Education delivers a world class learning experience to energize aspiring and established change makers.

为您的组织和您自己做好迎接下一阶段提升的准备。

Prepare for the next elevation for your organization and yourself.

了解更多，请访问 hbs.me/breakthrough。

Learn more at hbs.me/breakthrough.

那就是 hbs.me/breakthrough。

That's hbs.me/breakthrough.

我是詹妮弗·扎巴萨贾，欢迎收听《下一个非洲》播客，这是彭博社每周推出的节目，聚焦塑造世界最年轻、增长最快大陆未来的故事。

I'm Jennifer Zabasaja, and this is the Next Africa podcast, Bloomberg's weekly show about the stories shaping the future of the world's youngest, fastest growing continent.

每周五，《下一个非洲》播客深入挖掘新闻头条背后的真相。

Every Friday, the next Africa podcast goes deeper than the headlines.

从埃塞俄比亚可能引发地区对峙的巨型水电大坝，到博茨瓦纳努力摆脱对钻石的依赖，再到音乐节如何重塑非洲创意经济。

From Ethiopia's giant hydroelectric dam that could spark a regional showdown to Botswana's struggle to move beyond diamonds to music festivals transforming Africa's creative economy.

我们揭示了推动整个大陆变革的思想、冲突与机遇。

We uncovered the ideas, conflicts, and opportunities driving change across the continent.

通过彭博社记者实地报道拉各斯、开罗、约翰内斯堡等地，您将获得其他地方无法获取的背景信息，了解13亿人如何重新定义全球市场、文化和权力。

With Bloomberg journalists on the ground in Lagos, Cairo, Johannesburg, and beyond, you'll get the context you won't find anywhere else, how 1,300,000,000 people are redefining global markets, culture, and power.

彭博社出品的《下一个非洲》播客。

The Next Africa podcast from Bloomberg.

权力、政策与繁荣，尽在一处。

Power, policy, and prosperity all in one place.

立即关注《下一个非洲》播客，每周五在苹果播客、Spotify 或您收听播客的平台与我们相约。

Follow the Next Africa podcast now and join us every Friday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

彭博音频工作室。

Bloomberg Audio Studios.

播客、广播、新闻。

Podcasts, radio, news.

到了，周五，1月2日，耶。

Here we are, Friday, January 2 Yeah.

2026年。

2026.

正在现场录制。

Recording this live.

正在现场录制。

Recording this live.

我们是在12月17日录制的，我不确定。

Recording this on, I don't know, December 17.

我的手机显示：哇。

My phone says, wow.

这两周过得真充实。

It's been it's been an eventful two weeks

我知道。

I know.

在

Between

我们录制这段内容和你收听之间。

when we recorded this and when you're listening to it.

不祥的。

Ominous.

非常不祥的。

Very ominous.

是的。

Yeah.

我肯定会后悔这个。

I'm gonna regret this so much.

很可能。

Probably.

考虑到所有事情同时发生的速度。

Just given the pace of everything that's happening all at once.

但希望这些问题的答案在两周内不会改变太多。

But hopefully, answers to these questions won't have changed too much in two weeks.

但愿如此。

Hopefully.

除非发生什么惊人的事情。

Unless something amazing happens.

大家好，欢迎收听《金钱事务》播客，这是我们每周讨论与金钱相关话题的节目。

Hello, and welcome to the Money Stuff podcast, your weekly podcast where we talk about stuff related to money.

我是马特·莱文，为彭博观点撰写《金钱事务》专栏。

I'm Matt Levine, and I write the Money Stuff column for Bloomberg Opinion.

我是凯蒂·格里菲尔德，彭博新闻的记者，也是彭博电视的主持人。

And I'm Katie Greifield, a reporter for Bloomberg News and an anchor for Bloomberg Television.

我不再假装唱邮件精选环节的开场了，但今天确实是一个邮件精选节目。

I'm gonna stop pretending to sing the mailbag thing, but today is a mailbag episode.

是的。

Yeah.

邮件精选。

Mailbag.

谢谢，凯蒂。

Thank you, Katie.

邮件问答。

Mailbag.

邮件问答。

Mailbag.

嗯。

Yeah.

我们开始吧。

Let's get into it.

我们收到了一些不错的提问。

We got some good ones.

我们从克里斯托弗的一个问题开始，他问：为什么分析师要在财报电话会上提问？

We're starting off strong with a question from Christopher who asks, why do analysts ask questions on earnings calls?

我明白为什么他们在与公司的私下会议中提问。

I get why they ask them in private meetings with the company.

因为他们能获得独家的身体语言信息。

They then get exclusive access to body language information.

但在公开的收益电话会议上，他们获得的信息会同时被所有人共享。

But on public earnings calls, they get their information only to have it simultaneously shared with everyone else.

那他们从中得到了什么？

What do they get out of that?

这是个好问题。

It's a good question.

基本上，收益电话会议上的所有问题都是由卖方分析师提出的，他们的工作不是买入会上涨的股票，而是为客户发布研究报告，指出哪些股票会上涨。

So basically, all of the questions on earnings calls are asked by sell side analysts whose job is not to buy stocks that will then go up, but rather to publish research reports for their customers saying what stocks will go up.

因此， broadly speaking，研究分析师从事的是提供公共物品的业务。

And so broadly speaking, the research analysts are in a business of providing public ish goods.

他们并不是直接因为选股而获得报酬。

They're not getting paid directly for picking stocks.

他们提供的是对投资者客户的一整套服务，让投资者客户对他们及其所在的银行产生好感。

What they're doing is they're providing some holistic set of services to investor clients that make the investor clients think fondly about them and about their banks.

然后，由于这些好感，投资者客户会在美国市场与这些银行进行交易并支付佣金。

And then the investor clients, because of those fond feelings, will either, you know, in The US, they'll trade with the banks and pay them commissions.

而在欧洲，他们会直接为研究付费。

And in Europe, they'll pay directly for research.

因此，这意味着研究分析师所做的任何让投资者喜欢他们的事都是有成效的。

And so what that means is that like anything that the research analyst does that like makes investors like them is productive.

在财报电话会议上提出好问题，作为一种公共产品，是相当有成效的。

And providing public goods by asking good questions on the earnings call is reasonably productive.

此外，如果你在财报电话会议上提出好问题，人们就会听到并想：‘我喜欢这位分析师。’

Also, if you ask good questions on the earnings call, then people will hear you and think, oh, I like that analyst.

这将导致他们可能为你研究付费。

And that will lead to things like maybe them paying for your research.

这还会让公司觉得你很优秀，从而喜欢你。

It will also lead to maybe the company thinking you're good and liking you.

因此，一方面，他们会与你进行私下会面，告诉你一些信息，或通过肢体语言让你获得更深入的洞察。

And therefore, one, you know, having private meetings with you where they tell you stuff or give you body language that allows you to be more informed.

另一方面，研究分析师的另一项工作是为公司和投资者牵线搭桥，安排会面。

And two, another job of research analysts is brokering meetings between companies and investors.

因此，他们提供企业接入服务，当公司进行非公开发行路演、参加会议或其他活动时，他们会与投资者会面，这些会面机会由银行和研究分析师安排。

So they do corporate access where when a company is doing a non deal roadshow or a conference or whatever, they're meeting with investors and those slots are arranged by the banks, by the research analysts.

如果你与公司关系良好，就能获得更好的参与机会，从而为你的客户创造更多价值。

And if you are in good favor with the company, then you get better access to those things and you can do more for your clients.

因此，作为他们所提供的一系列广泛服务的一部分，在财报电话会议这种公开场合提出高质量的问题是非常有益的。

So as part of the broad set of services they provide, asking good questions in a very public place on earnings calls is a useful thing to do.

听起来有点做作，但我明白你的意思。

It sounds a bit performative, but I hear what

你说得对。

you say.

是的。

Yeah.

这就像一种市场行为，就像成为一名

It's like a market like like, being a

研究分析师在某种程度上是一种营销工作。

research analyst is in some sense a marketing job.

对吧？

Right?

所以，善于在公众场合表现是一种很好的营销。

And so, like, being good in public is good marketing.

我还想说，这本质上是一份分析工作，你正在构建自己的模型。如果你有独特的观点或独特的技能，并且提出一个能完善你模型的好问题，其他人虽然也能听到答案，但他们没有同样的模型。

I should say also like it is an analytical job and you are building your own model and like if you have differentiated views or differentiated skills and you ask a good question that informs your model, other people will get the answer to the question, but they don't have the same model.

他们没有同样的技能。

They don't have the same skills.

对吧？

Right?

所以，你仍然可以通过提出一个所有人都能听到的问题，获得差异化的信息或分析。

So you could still get differentiated information or analysis by asking a question that everyone can hear.

但你所做的很多事，其实是让所有人听到你有多聪明。

But a lot of what you're doing is letting everyone hear how smart you are.

对。

Yeah.

你所说的正是我在读这个问题时所疑惑的：在财报电话会上提出一个非常出色的问题，是否能从高管那里获得更坦诚的回答？

You're sort of speaking to something that I was wondering when reading this question is whether there's satisfaction in asking, like, a really good question on the earnings call that maybe get something more candid from the executives on the call.

凯蒂，你是电视主持人。

Katie, you're a television anchor.

你肯定知道这个问题的答案。

Surely you know the answer to this question.

嗯，是的，我的意思是，如果有人在财报电话会上提出了一个特别好的问题，我可能会把它挑出来，然后据为己有。

Well, yeah, I guess I mean, if someone asked a really good question on an earnings call, I would probably highlight it and also steal it for myself.

没错。

Yeah.

但同时，难道不会有一种满足感吗？

But also just, like, isn't there a satisfaction

当你提出一个好问题的时候？

for you asking a good question?

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

That's true.

或者，比如美联储新闻发布会的记者们。

Or, like, the journalists at the Fed press conference.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Right.

一样的情况。

Same thing.

美联储新闻发布会的记者们，任何对他们的提问的回答，其他所有记者都可以记下来。

The journalists at the Fed press conference, any answer to their question, every other journalist at that conference can write down.

对吧？

Right?

所以你问了一个好问题，然后你就想，哦。

So you ask a good question, then you're like, oh.

你给同事留下了深刻印象。

You impress your colleagues.

你给美联储留下了深刻印象。

You impress the Fed.

是的。

Yeah.

你给读者留下了深刻印象。

You impress your readers.

就像，没错。

Like, yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这才是关键所在。

That's what it's all about.

或者你惹恼了美联储。

Or you tick off the Fed.

其他事情。

Something else

更好。

Even better.

我还想知道的一件事是，比如，是否以及我也在想，在美联储新闻发布会上的记者们是否有一种感觉，认为这是一场团队运动，我们试图从这些人身上获取一些原本可能得不到的信息，还是每个人都在问自己的独立问题，并不一定会基于前面人提出的问题进行延伸。

Something else I also wonder about is, like, whether and I wonder this too about the journalists in the room at the Fed press conference is whether there's any sort of sense that, like, this is a team sport, that we're trying to get something out of these people that we might not have otherwise or whether everyone is asking their own individual questions and not necessarily building on the question that was asked before you.

我的意思是，肯定是某种结合。

I mean, surely, it's some combination.

对吧？

Right?

比如，你希望脱颖而出，但同时，如果别人先取得了突破，你就趁机跟进，给予致命一击。

Like, you want to distinguish yourself, but also, like, someone else draws some blood, you move in for the killer.

对吧？

Right?

嗯，对。

Like Yeah.

大概吧。

Probably

我们下次通话时也会有点类似。

somewhat similar on our next calls.

好问题，克里斯托弗。

Good question, Christopher.

下一个问题。

This next question.

我们要消音了。

We're gonna bleep.

嗯。

Yeah.

谁来读一下？

Who wants to read it?

等等。

Wait.

我想读一下。

I wanna read it.

好的。

Okay.

读吧。

Go for it.

资深对冲基金经理们在说什么蠢话？

What idiotic is coming from senior hedge fund leaders?

这是资产管理。

It's asset management.

整个目的就是关心如何为你赚钱。

The entire point is to care about making you money.

那些不关心钱却被雇佣的人，都是些怪人，他们制造了价值100亿美元的庞氏骗局。

The people that do get hired who don't care about money are weirdos who create $10,000,000,000 Ponzi schemes.

Jane Street招聘数学怪才而不是橄榄球运动员，这简直就是一场刑事阴谋。

Jane Street hiring math cat weirdos rather than lacrosse players is a literal criminal conspiracy.

Anthropic是一个奇怪的邪教，正是由于OpenAI董事会如此古怪和异常，他们才试图摧毁这家公司，因为它发布了一个成功的产品。

Anthropic is a weird cult, and it's specifically because of how weird and abnormal that the OpenAI board was that they tried to destroy the company because it released a successful product.

我们需要更多正常的人进入这些公司，而不是那些对买房、买飞机或买游艇毫不在意的空灵博士。

We need more normal people in these companies and less ethereal PhDs that don't care buying a house, a plane, or a yacht.

对买房或

Don't care about buying a house or

买游艇毫不在意。

a yacht.

是的。

Yeah.

公司应该制定政策，要求25岁以上的员工不得与人合租。

Companies should have corporate policies that require employees over the age of 25 to not have roommates.

如果人们不住在冰冷的房子里，而是必须面对真实的房地产市场，去做买菜、挑选家具这类事情，我们会得到更好的产品和更明智的公司决策。

We get better products and better corporate decisions if people aren't living in cold houses, but rather have to deal with the real housing market and do things like buy groceries and pick furniture.

如果对冲基金的管理层只想雇佣社会主义者，那他们应该去当大学教授，而不是管理两成二十或更高的金融资产。

If hedge fund leadership wants to only hire socialists, then they should go lead a university rather than managing financial assets for two and twenty or more.

我喜欢这个问题。

I love this question.

这是个问题吗？

I is it a question?

我喜欢这段牢骚。

I love this rant.

我甚至不知道是什么引发了这个话题，但我写过关于这个的观点，我认为，而且我相信我不只是一个人这么想，金融行业里许多最成功的人，本质上是被解谜和求知欲驱动的，而不是对金钱的追求。

Don't even know what prompted it, but I have written about this that, you know, I believe, and I think I am not alone in this, that, like, a lot of the most successful people in the financial industry are deep down motivated by puzzle solving and intellectual curiosity rather than the pursuit of money.

我只是觉得，这可能是一个经验性事实，虽然不一定正确，但看起来确实如此。

And I just think that this is an empirical fact that might not be true, but seems to be true.

对吧？

Right?

你可以想象，让你成为最优秀对冲基金经理的东西，可能是非常热爱金钱。

Like, you could imagine that the thing that would make you the best at managing hedge fund was, like, really liking money a lot.

但事实证明，解谜对于管理资金非常有效。

But it turns out that solving puzzles is really good for managing money.

但格雷厄姆说得对，那里确实有些怪异之处。

But Graham is right that there are weirdnesses there.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，如果你进入这个行业是因为你真的很喜欢解谜，那么其中一些人最终会犯下严重的欺诈行为。

And that, like, if you get into this business because you really like solving puzzles, like, some number of those people do end up committing huge frauds.

或许在一个由友善、社交能力强、中等智商的长曲棍球运动员主导的世界里，欺诈行为和爆仓、庞氏骗局会更少，

And there is some possibility that a world of nice, sociable, moderately intelligent lacrosse players would commit less fraud and have fewer blowups and Ponzi schemes than one where

而不是那些数学营的怪人。

Than the math camp weirdos.

数学营

Math camp

怪人掌控着对冲基金。

weirdos are running the hedge funds.

但你对此能做什么呢？

But what do you do about that?

对吧？

Right?

就像，你

Like, you

不可能的，这是一个竞争极其激烈的职业。

can't it's a fiercely competitive business.

如果你只是想以友好、随和的方式炒股，你肯定会输给那些数学天才。

And if you are just trying to trade stocks with, like, friendly sociability, you'll get run over by the math kids.

所以，你知道，竞争把人们推向了一个奇怪的境地：那些不太在乎钱的人反而赚得最多，而其中一些人还很古怪。

And so, you know, the competition leads to this strange place where the people who are less motivated by money make the most money, and then some of them were weird.

是的。

Yeah.

另外，我得说，虽然我对这个问题表示理解，但从根本上讲，我的立场是站在爱解谜的人这一边的。

Also, should say, like, I'm being sympathetic to this question, but fundamentally, my sympathies are with the puzzle people.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，我真的很喜欢那些解谜型的人，我认为从整体上看，让解谜型的人掌控金融对世界是有益的，而且在美学上也令人愉悦。

I mean, I I I love the puzzle people, and I think it is on balance good for the world and also very pleasing aesthetically that the puzzle people are in charge of finance.

但这确实是一个真实的趋势。

But it's a it's a real trend.

你知道，这可以追溯到《说谎者的扑克牌》。

You know, this is like it goes back to Liar's Poker.

从那种友善、本质上以营销为导向的人，转向数学解谜型人才的转变，几十年来一直在华尔街引发紧张关系。

This transition from the sort of sociable, essentially marketing oriented people to math puzzle people is one that has caused tension on Wall Street for decades.

嗯。

Mhmm.

说得好，格雷厄姆。

Great rant, Graham.

太棒了。

Really good stuff.

好的。

Okay.

这是约翰。

Here's John.

马特似乎很喜欢某些引语，因为它们能很好地解释某个时刻、机制或趋势等。

Matt seems to love certain quotes because they're great at explaining a moment, mechanism, trend, etcetera.

例如，引语：'以捐赠的心态看待对OpenAI Global LLC的投资将是明智的。'

For example, quote, it would be wise to view any investing in OpenAI Global LLC in the spirit of donation.

引语结束，内部隐藏并标记为账户8000000的法定货币。

End quote, hidden poorly internally labeled fiat at account 8000000.

做

Do

你80亿。

you 8,000,000,000.

80亿。

8,000,000,000.

耶稣。

Jesus.

前面加一个波浪号

A little tilde

因为它是

in front of it because it's

一个带有那个的框。

a box with that.

这来自萨姆·贝克曼·弗里德的著名电子表格。

That's from Sam Beckman Fried's famous spreadsheet.

著名。

Famous.

你有最喜欢的吗？

Do you have an all time favorite?

你有最喜欢的名言吗？

Do I have an all time favorite quote?

所以我几乎在上一个回答中就说了这句话。

So I almost said this in the last answer.

塞缪尔·约翰逊说，一个人很少有比赚钱更无害的消遣方式了。

Samuel Johnson says, there are a few ways in which a man can be more innocently employed than in getting money.

我经常思考这句话。

I think about that a lot.

比如，人们经常对华尔街、金融家以及那些试图赚钱的人感到愤怒。

Like, people regularly get mad at Wall Street and financiers and people trying to make a buck.

但我常常觉得，这比几乎所有其他选择都要好。

And I often think it's better than almost all of the alternatives.

那些被权力、复仇甚至使命感驱动的人，往往比那些只是想赚钱或赚80亿美元的人做得更糟。

People who are motivated by power or revenge or even a sense of mission are often doing worse things than the people who are just out there trying to make a buck or $8,000,000,000.

所以，这是我一直以来最喜欢的名言之一。

So that's a that's a, you know, an all time favorite quote of mine.

我另一个喜欢的名言是，沃伦·巴菲特在他的著名股东信中有很多广为人知的名言。

Another favorite quote of mine is, you know, Warren Buffett has a lot of famous quotes in his famous shareholder letters.

他确实如此。

He does.

他可能引用过很多他的名言。

Probably quoted a lot of them.

我最喜欢的一句是他某次贬低黄金作为投资品的时候。

The one that I like the most is at some point, he's like talking trash about gold as an investment.

对。

Right.

他说，你可以投资，我记得他说的是标普指数的总市值。

And he's like, you can invest I think the number was like the market cap of the S and P.

他说，你可以把大约32万亿美元投入标普指数。

He's like, you can put, you know, $32,000,000,000,000 into the into the S and P.

你把钱投入标普指数，就能获得美国全部的生产能力、所有公司和企业利润，

You put the money into the S and P, you get all the productive capacity of America, all the companies, all the corporate profits,

当然。

For sure.

所有的商业活动。

All the business.

或者你可以把这笔钱投入一个像这样高、这样长、这样宽的金块中。

Or you can put that amount of money into a cube of gold that is, like, yay high by yay long by yay wide.

他说，然后它就会一直放在那里。

And he's like and then it'll just sit there.

你可以抚摸这个金块，但它不会有任何反应。

You can funnel the cube, but it will not respond.

它不会产生任何股息，也不会有类似的东西。

It will not spin off any any dividends, anything like that.

没有现金流。

No cash flow.

我只是想到沃伦·巴菲特说，你可以抚摸这个金块，但它不会有任何反应。

I just think of Warren Buffett saying you can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.

哈佛商学院高管教育为全球领导者建立强大的联系。

Harvard Business School Executive Education creates powerful connections for leaders from around the world.

他们的课程旨在通过深化现有关系并建立新的联系，来增强组织和个人。

Their programs are designed to strengthen organizations and individuals by deepening relationships and fostering new ones.

参与者将带走终身的朋友、新的潜在商业伙伴，以及一个强大的全球性变革者网络。

Participants leave with lifelong friends, new potential business partners, and a powerful globe spanning network of fellow changemakers.

了解更多，请访问 hbs.me/breakthrough。

Learn more at hbs.me/breakthrough.

网址是 hbs.me/breakthrough。

That's hbs.me/breakthrough.

我是巴里·里特尔茨，诚邀您收听《商业大师》播客。

I'm Barry Ritholtz inviting you to join me for the Masters in Business podcast.

每周，我们都会为您带来与塑造市场、投资和商业的人物的精彩对话，包括首席执行官、基金经理、亿万富翁、诺贝尔奖得主、交易员、分析师和经济学家——所有影响市场动态的人，无论您是否持有股票、债券、房地产、大宗商品或加密货币，这些对话都至关重要。

Every week, we bring you fascinating conversations with the people who shape markets, investing, and business, CEOs, fund managers, billionaires, Nobel laureates, traders, analysts, economists, everybody that affects what's going on in the market, whether you own stock, bonds, real estate, commodities, crypto, you really need to hear these conversations.

有时嘉宾是像理查德·塞勒或罗伯特·席勒这样的行为学家。

Sometimes it's behaviorists like Dick Thaler or Bob Schiller.

有时则是像彼得·林奇、比尔·米勒或雷·达利奥这样的基金经理。

Sometimes it's fund managers like Peter Lynch, Bill Miller, Ray Dalio.

有时候是作者，比如《大空头》和《点球成金》的作者迈克尔·刘易斯。

Sometimes it's authors, Michael Lewis, author of the big short, and money ball.

无论讨论什么话题，这些人都每周在推动市场变化。

Regardless of the conversation, these are the folks that move markets each week.

这就是我和巴里一起主持的《商业大师》播客。

That's the masters in business podcast with me, Barry.

在Apple、Spotify或您收听播客的任何平台收听。

Listen on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

好的。

Okay.

来自Jens的问题，关于ISS/Glass Lewis和投票讨论。

From Jens, a question on ISS slash Glass Lewis and the voting discussion.

这不是亿万富翁通过ISS或Glass Lewis获得巨大影响力、操纵投票以达到自己目的的最简单方式吗？

Isn't this the easiest way for a billionaire to gain a huge influence on companies by ISS or Glass Lewis and steal the voting in one in the direction you want?

这能行得通吗？

Would this work?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我觉得，你知道的，ISS和Glass Lewis的人对ISS和Glass Lewis非常不满，也就是这些代理咨询公司。

I I think that, you know, ISS and Glass Lewis people people are really mad at ISS and Glass Lewis, so the the proxy advisory firms.

是的。

Yes.

正如这个播客中讨论过的。

As discussed on this pod.

很久以前了。

Ages ago now.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

我们在录制这个播客前几天。

A few days before we recorded this pod.

唐纳德·特朗普发布了一项行政命令，基本上说：我们不喜欢这些代理顾问。

Donald Trump put out an executive order basically saying, we don't like the proxy advisors.

还有一种说法，认为代理顾问机构掌控了所有股东投票。

And there's this notion that the proxy advisors are in charge of all shareholder voting.

对吧？

Right?

人们喜欢这种阴谋论，觉得两家外国公司控制着所有美国上市公司的运作方式。

People like a conspiracy like this where it's like two foreign owned companies control how all American public companies are run.

这种观点认为，ISS和Glass Lewis告诉股东该如何投票，然后股东就照着投，公司也必须照办。

The idea is that ISS and Glass Lewis tell the shareholders how to vote and then the shareholders vote that way and then the companies have to do what they say.

这种说法在很多方面都被夸大了。

This is exaggerated in a lot of ways.

其中之一是，ISS和Glass Lewis的影响主要体现在最不重要的事项上。

One of which is that like ISS and Glass Lewis have their most influence in the least important things.

比如，股东投票每年有数百项关于非约束性提案的投票，要求公司发布ESG相关报告之类的。

Like, are shareholder votes on you know, there are hundreds a year on non binding proposals that companies should write reports about ESG stuff or whatever.

在这些事项上，确实很多股东会听从ISS和Glass Lewis的意见，因为这些事对他们来说根本没那么重要。

And there, yeah, a lot of shareholders do defer to ISS and Glass Lewis because it just doesn't matter to them that much.

是的。

Yeah.

ISS和Glass Lewis在有争议的并购情况和代理权争夺中具有实质性影响力，因为这些情况涉及真正的经济利益。

ISS and Glass Lewis have meaningful influence on things like contested merger situations and proxy fights where, like, there are real economic stakes.

但在这些情况下，许多资产管理人会自己做决定，因为他们有更多利害关系。

But there, a lot of asset managers are making their own decisions because they have more at stake.

而ISS和Glass Lewis影响最大的地方，恰恰是人们利益最小的地方。

Whereas the stuff where the ISS and Glass Lewis have the most impact is where people have the least at stake.

但更重要的是，他们根本没有权威。

But also it's just like they have no authority.

他们只是具有说服力。

They're just persuasive.

对吧？

Right?

他们只是很有用。

They're just like useful.

如果它们不再有用，人们就会停止关注它们。

And if they stop being useful, then people would stop paying attention to them.

所以我认为，如果你收购了ISS和Glass Lewis，并用它们来推动某个议程，首先，你所能推动的范围非常有限，因为这仅仅涉及股东投票。

So I think if you bought ISS and Glass Lewis and use them to advance an agenda, first of all, you can only do so much to advance the agenda because it's only like shareholder voting.

嗯。

Mhmm.

其次，如果你做得太过明显，人们就会对你厌倦，而且再启动一个类似的机构也并不难。

And secondly, if you did it too, obviously, then people would get sick of you, and it can't be that hard to start another one.

正是如此。

That's the thing.

比如，现实中，如果像埃隆·马斯克这样的争议性亿万富翁收购了ISS或Glass Lewis，我觉得无论它们做出什么建议，人们都知道这是有偏见的。

Like, in practice, if a controversial billionaire, such as Elon Musk bought either ISS or Glass Lewis, I feel like like whatever recommendation they make, people just know it's biased.

没错。

Yeah.

而且大家都会说，哦，现在它有偏见了。

And, you know, everyone's like, oh, it's biased now.

这是有偏见的。

It is biased.

他们有一些先入之见，嗯。

They have some priors Mhmm.

这些先入之见或多或少与许多投资经理的观点一致，因为投资经理的其他客户也希望他们提供付费建议，而他们需要经营生意。

That happened to more or less align with the views of a lot of investment managers because the investment manager, their other customers, and they're trying to run a business where people pay for their advice.

但没错。

But yeah.

你知道的。

Like You know.

他们的偏见实际上与他们的客户一致。

Their bias is kind of aligned with, like, their customers.

如果你改变了这一点，客户就会去别处了。

And if you change that, then the customers would go somewhere else.

是的。

Yeah.

现在我们有一个来自利奥的问题。

Now we have a question from Leo.

这就像ETF板块。

It's like the ETF segment.

我真的不知道。

I don't really know

我不知道该怎么回答这个问题。

how to answer this.

但利奥问，我觉得你们完全可以把每笔ETF买入都变成创建，每笔卖出都变成赎回，并直接路由给发行方，从而消除ETF在NAV之外交易的可能性。

But Leo asks, I feel like you could just have every buy of an ETF be a creation and every sell be a redemption routed to the issuer and remove the possibility of ETFs trading outside of NAV.

那为什么还要允许它们直接与其他交易者交易呢？

Why bother being able to trade them with other traders directly at all?

因为它们是在交易所交易的。

Because they're exchange traded.

是的。

Yeah.

就是这样。

That's the thing.

它们在一天中随时交易。

They trade throughout the day.

对。

Right.

一种只能向发行人申购和赎回的工具就是共同基金。

An instrument where you could only create and redeem with the issuer is just the mutual fund.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

而共同基金有几个缺点。

And mutual funds have a couple of disadvantages.

一是，发行人必须始终与你进行交易，这会产生行政成本，而你本可以在交易所与任何想交易的人进行买卖。

One is that just an administrative cost to the issue always having to trade with you rather than you can trade on the exchange with anyone who wants to.

二是，发行人希望以净资产价值（NAV）与你交易，但净资产价值在一天中不断变化。

Two, the issue wants to trade with you at NAV, but the NAV changes throughout the day.

因此，不断更新净资产价值也会产生成本。

And so there's a cost in just updating that.

而对于ETF，你按市场价格交易，因此这基本上可以自动处理。

Whereas with an ETF, you're trading at the market price, and so it just kinda takes care of itself.

它自动处理的方式是通过套利者确保价格接近净资产价值。

And the way it takes care of itself is with arbitragers making sure the price is close to the NAV.

但发行人无需担心这个问题。

But, like, the issuer doesn't have to worry about that.

也就是说，这在行政上简单得多。

Like, it's much more administratively simple.

此外，ETF的一个关键点在于，如果你与发行人进行交易，比如ETF的运作方式是我向发行人支付资金，发行人则给我份额，这将是一项应税交易，会为ETF基金的其他持有人带来税务责任。

Also, though, like, a lot of the point of the ETF thing is that if you're doing trades with the issuer, if the way ETFs worked is that I gave the issuer money and it gave me back shares, that is a taxable trade that creates tax liabilities for the other holders of the ETF of the fund.

对吧？

Right?

因为当发行方用现金出售股票时，会触发税务实现事件。

Because when the issuer is selling stock for cash, it creates a tax realization event.

ETF的巧妙之处在于，它们从不以现金进行交易。

The trick of ETFs is that they never trade for cash.

众所周知。

Famously.

众所周知。

Famously.

因此，当我通过交易所与你交易，而不是与发行方交易时，ETF就不会产生税务实现事件。

And so when I trade with you on the exchange and we're not trading with the issuer, there's no tax realization event for the ETF.

当发生创建时，并不是我带着现金去找ETF，然后获得份额，或者反过来。

When there are creations, they're not like me going to the ETF with cash and getting my shares or vice versa.

而是授权参与者交付份额并换回ETF的份额。

They're, authorized participants handing in shares and getting back shares of the ETF.

所以这是一种实物交易，没有税务事件。

So there's an in kind transaction and no tax event.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，ETF的关键在于，它不与投资者进行现金交易，因此没有税收。

And so this is like really important at the ETF is that there are no cash trades with the ETF, so there are no taxes.

而且，只要你持有该基金，就可以延迟缴税。

And they defer taxes for as long as you hold the fund.

所以这样做会消除ETF的所有特性。

So doing this would remove all the things that make an ETF.

这只是一个共同基金。

This is just a mutual fund.

是的。

Yeah.

问题是，为什么你不能每次都直接与发行方交易？为什么ETF不能是共同基金？

Like, the question, why would you why can't you just do every trade with the issuer is, like, why can't an ETF be a mutual fund?

是的。

Yeah.

答案是我们发现了一种更好的技术。

And the answer is we've discovered a better technology.

是的。

Yeah.

为什么骡子不能是马？

Why can't a mule be a horse?

原因有很多。

Lot of reasons.

这是奥斯卡提出的一个非常好的问题。

This is a really great question from Oscar.

为什么没有迷因ETF？

Why are there no meme ETFs?

我们有迷因股票和迷因股票ETF，但没有迷因ETF。

We have meme stocks and meme stock ETFs, but there is no meme ETF.

否则这些ETF持有完全无聊的资产，却能引发巨大的散户热情。

In otherwise completely boring ETF holding boring assets that nevertheless drums up huge retail excitement.

它不必以某种愚蠢的溢价交易，只需积累起庞大的净资产值即可。

It doesn't have to trade at some dumb premium, just build up a big NAV.

我读了几遍之后才明白奥斯卡的问题所在，因为我的第一反应是：已经有ETF持有迷因股票了，但他问的是为什么没有ETF像迷因股票那样火爆起来？

I read this a few times and then I understood what Oscar was asking because my immediate reaction was there are ETFs that hold meme stocks, but he's talking about why hasn't an ETF taken off in the same way that a meme stock has?

我的理解是，让ETF展现出迷因般的特征。

Like, display meme like characteristics is how I understood it.

答案是因为套利机制。

And the answer is because of the arb.

对吧？

Right?

答案是，如果我在证券交易所购买ETF，我是在向做市商购买，而做市商很可能在卖给我ETF份额的同时买入底层股票，对吧？

The answer is because if I buy an ETF on the stock exchange, I'm buying it from a market maker who is probably selling me shares of the ETF and buying the underlying stock, right?

反之，如果我卖出，情况也一样。

And vice versa if I'm selling.