苹果起诉OpenAI“窃取商业机密”？Netflix计划推出直播电视频道？

是不是被AI及其影响搞得喘不过气了？

Are you sucking wind from trying to keep up with AI and its impact?

先歇口气，来听听《智能转型》——这是Morning Brew和普华永道联手推出的新播客。

Take a breather and tune in to The Intelligence Shift, Morning Brew's new podcast with PwC.

它能把那些宏大的AI概念，变成你真能用得上的实际洞见。

It bridges the gap between big picture AI concepts and what it actually means in practice.

主持人丹·普里斯特邀请多位专家，聊聊AI在体育、音乐、人力资源等领域的真实应用。

Host Dan Priest is joined by expert guests to discuss AI's role in sports, music, HR, and more.

无论你在哪个平台听播客，都能找到《智能转型》。

Listen to the Intelligent Shift wherever you get your podcasts.

早上好，欢迎收听《Brew Daily Show》。

Good morning, Brew Daily Show.

我是雷蒙德·娄。

I'm Raymond Lou.

我是凯尔·哈吉。

And I'm Kyle Hagee.

今天苹果直接起诉了OpenAI，指控他们盗用自家的东西。

Today, Apple just slapped OpenAI in the face with a lawsuit that says, stop stealing my stuff.

虽然你可能看到自己最爱的YouTube主播上了Netflix，但今天是7月13号，星期一。

And while you might see your favorite YouTube streamers popping up on Netflix, it's Monday, July 13.

咱们开始吧。

Let's ride.

早上好。

Good morning.

尼尔和托比今天不在，所以由人气嘉宾凯尔来顶班。

Neil and Toby are out, which means we have crowd favorite Kyle filling in.

凯尔，欢迎回来参加节目。

Kyle, welcome back to the pod.

走起。

Let's do it.

很高兴能来。

Excited to be here.

凯尔，你平时穿西装喜欢贴身一点的吗？

Kyle, how fitted do you like your suits?

我的意思，你一眼就能看出来。

I mean, obviously, you can tell.

挺合身的。

Pretty fit.

我喜欢宽松一点的。

I like them loose.

我喜欢那种能稍微宽松点，有余地的感觉。

I like them ability to grow into them a little bit.

《华尔街日报》提到，在蛋白质健身风潮下，男性更倾向穿贴身西装。

Well, The Wall Street Journal writes, in the era of protein maxing, men want tighter suits.

记者杰米·沃特指出，去年UFC拳手康纳·麦格雷戈在白宫会见特朗普时，很多人注意到他的西装非常贴身，完美凸显了身材线条。

Writer Jamie Water points out that when UFC fighter Conor McGregor met with President Trump at the White House last year, many noticed how tightly fitted his suit was and how it accentuated his physique.

为麦格雷戈设计这套西装的大卫·奥古斯特说，那次亮相之后，我们收到了几十份要求同样剪裁的订单。

David August, the designer behind McGregor's suit, said that after that appearance, we've received dozens and dozens of requests for the same tailoring.

现在男人拼命吃蛋白、练力量，想把肌肉练出来，同时也想靠穿搭展现身材。

So as men are trying to bulk out with all the protein and power lifting they're doing, they're trying to show off their muscles along with their style.

但Kyle，再瘦下去是不是就过头了？

Kyle but but Kyle, how slim is too slim?

我得说一句，如果你照康纳·麦格雷戈的建议挑衣服，我真得好好问问你了。

I just gotta say, if you're taking fashion advice from Connor McGregor, I have some I have some serious questions

这明显是个危险信号。

for Red flag.

作为新手爸爸，我得穿宽松点才舒服。

And I look, I need them loose as a as a new dad.

我最近确实胖了那么一点。

I've I'm I'm putting on a little few extra pounds.

所以我还是喜欢衣服能有点余地，慢慢适应身体的变化。

So I again, I like to grow into the suit.

我不会选修身款，但如果你觉得合适，那当然没问题。

So I'm I'm not going slim suits, but if it works for you, it works for you.

是的

Yeah.

我同意

I agree.

接下来听一下我们的赞助商altrarunning的广告。

And now a word from our sponsor, altrarunning.

嘿，雷。

Hey, Ray.

你觉得自己平衡又有力吗？

Do you feel balanced and strong?

情绪上？

Emotionally?

如果真是这样，那一个月后再来跟我聊这个吧。

Because if so, come back to me about that one in probably a month.

不，当然不是。

No, of course not.

我们这里只关注身体层面。

We only care about the physical here.

这就是我们打开摄像机的原因。

It's why we turn the cameras on.

越野跑鞋的设计是为了给脚趾留出足够空间，提升舒适感、平衡性和力量。

Ultra running shoes are designed to give you room for your toes for comfort, balance, and strength.

大多数鞋子脚趾部分都比较窄，但越野跑鞋给脚趾更多空间，让脚趾能自然舒展，脚部保持自然状态。

Most other shoes are narrow at the toe, but Ultra has more room for your toes, so they can spread out and your feet can stay in a natural position.

他们真的做出了形状像脚的鞋子。

They actually make shoes shaped like feet.

这想法真有意思。

What a concept.

在 ultrarunning.com/morningbrew 使用促销码 MORNINGBREW10，首双越野跑鞋立减十成。

Use promo code MORNINGBREW10 for 10% off your first pair of ultra running shoes at ultrarunning.com/morningbrew.

网址是 altrarunning.com/morningbrew。

That's altrarunning.com/morningbrew.

OpenAI 和苹果的关系彻底闹僵了。

The relationship between OpenAI and Apple has gone completely sour.

上星期五，苹果指控 OpenAI 为了打造 ChatGPT 的硬件产品线，窃取了商业机密。

Last Friday, Apple accused OpenAI of stealing trade secrets in its quest to build out a physical product line for ChatGPT.

诉讼中特别点名了两名前苹果员工：谭棠，曾参与 iPhone、Apple Watch 和 iPod 硬件设计，现在是 OpenAI 的首席硬件官；还有陆程，曾任电气工程师，接触过苹果多项核心产品开发信息，苹果称。

The lawsuit specifically calls out two former Apple employees, Tang Tan, a former hardware designer who worked on the iPhone, Apple Watch, and iPod, and is now OpenAI's chief hardware officer, and Cheng Lu, a former electrical engineer who was privy to some of its most sensitive product developments, Apple says.

指控称，谭棠曾建议 OpenAI 的求职者在面试时带上苹果的实物零件，而陆程在跳槽到 OpenAI 前，下载了数份涉及硬件的机密文件。

The claims say Tan told OpenAI candidates to bring in actual parts from Apple during its interviews, and Liu downloaded several confidential hardware related files as he was transitioning over to OpenAI.

在诉讼文件里，陆程给前同事发消息说：‘哈哈哈。’

In the lawsuit, Liu wrote to a former colleague, LOL.

我才发现我能访问公司网络存储。

I found out I can access the network storage.

真是搞笑。

So funny.

OpenAI 回应说：我们根本没兴趣拿别的公司商业机密。

OpenAI responded saying, Look, it has no interest in other companies' trade secrets.

我们依然专注于打造能赋能全球用户的创新科技。

We remain focused on building innovative technology that empowers people everywhere.

今年二月，苹果其实已经向OpenAI提过泄密的问题，但他们一直没回应。

Now back in February, Apple actually raised the issue of leaks to OpenAI, but they never responded.

这段合作关系已经彻底破裂了。

It's a partnership that's gone south.

苹果曾请OpenAI帮忙用他们的技术升级Siri，但OpenAI对苹果整合ChatGPT的方式感到很失望，Kyle。

Apple asked OpenAI to help revamp Siri using its tech, but OpenAI grew disappointed with how Apple integrated ChatGPT, Kyle.

这段友谊算是散了，但严格来说他们还是合作伙伴，所以更像是一对表面合作、暗地较劲的‘假朋友’？

This is a friendship that has kind of fallen apart, but technically, they're still partners, so maybe they're more like frenemies?

我想是吧。

I I guess so.

而且，很明显你对其他公司的商业机密很感兴趣，这点我明白，官司也确实存在。

And one, I mean, clearly you are interested in other companies trade secrets that I get that there's a a lawsuit.

你得小心引用原话，但这个说法根本就是错的，直说吧。

You gotta be careful with your quotes, but that just seems to be wrong point blank.

是的。

Mhmm.

对我来说，那些做这事的人到底怎么想的，觉得这能行得通？

And for for me, like, how did the people doing this think it was going to work?

我敢肯定，苹果早就掌握了我每一下按键，而我根本不是他们公司的人。

Like, I'm sure Apple knows every one of my keystrokes and I don't even work for the company.

你居然真以为能瞒天过海，这简直让我难以置信。

So like the fact that you thought you might get away with this also blows my mind.

我觉得，让OpenAI的首席硬件官被指控犯罪，这形象实在太差了。

I think for OpenAI to have their chief hardware officer being accused of a crime is just not a good look.

你提到的这个从神坛跌落的点，确实很有道理。

And I think you brought up a really good point, which is the fall from grace.

2024年，ChatGPT原本是要和苹果合作，一起升级Siri的。

ChatGPT was going to be a partner with Apple on Siri in 2024.

当时很多人都很期待，毕竟谁都知道Siri根本派不上用场。

And I think so many people were excited about that because Lord knows Siri just doesn't really work.

我们当时都惊了，这事儿要是成了可不得了。

We're like, oh my gosh, this could be huge.

结果这个合作转眼就黄了。

And that partnership just fell apart so fast.

现在苹果已经改用Gemini作为2026年AI的核心了。

Now Apple has switched to Gemini in 2026 to power their AI.

看来他们俩的关系真是彻底崩了。

And so, this looks like a really tough relationship.

另外让苹果和OpenAI关系恶化的，是乔尼·艾维加入了OpenAI。

The other part that I think is souring between Apple and OpenAI was Joni Ivey joining OpenAI.

乔尼·艾维。

Joni Ivey.

乔尼·艾维，抱歉，就是那位著名的苹果前工业设计首席官。

Joni Ivey, excuse me, joining OpenAI, who is the famed Apple Industrial Designer Chief Design Officer.

他在苹果干了整整二十七年。

He spent twenty seven years at the company.

他完全有权利加入OpenAI，但苹果非常在意的是他们在硬件领域的主导地位。

He has every right to join OpenAI, but I think what Apple takes very serious is its domination in the hardware space.

他们一直公开允许OpenAI、Anthropic和亚马逊投入数十亿美元开发AI产品，因为他们知道这些AI产品最终必须运行在苹果的硬件上。

They've been open about allowing OpenAI, Anthropic, Amazon to invest billions of dollars into AI products, knowing that those AI products are gonna have to run on their hardware.

我觉得现在苹果感到压力的是，硬件的未来会是什么样子？

What I think Apple feels some pressure now is what is the future of hardware look like?

用户将来会通过什么样的界面来交互？

And what is the interface people go to?

会是Meta的Ray-Ban智能眼镜吗？

Is it gonna be Meta Ray bands?

会是Snap的眼镜吗？

Is it gonna be Snap specs?

会是亚马逊的Alexa吗？

Is it going to be an Amazon Alexa?

会是OpenAI正在开发的全新硬件吗？

Is it going to be this new hardware that OpenAI develops?

一旦苹果觉得受到威胁，别忘了它有上千亿美元的现金，还有全世界顶尖的律师团队，肯定会对你下手。

Once Apple feels threatened like that, I mean, got a $140,000,000,000 in cash and the best lawyers in the world, they're going go after you.

所以从苹果的角度来看，保护自己最擅长的硬件业务，这完全说得通。

And I so I think this makes sense from Apple's perspective to defend what they do best, which is hardware.

对。

Yeah.

很多科技公司都在试图破解消费级AI产品的密码。

A lot of these tech companies are trying to crack the code of consumer AI products.

但到目前为止，还没有哪家真正成功。

No one has really, really done so yet.

说实话，这领域还处在非常早期的阶段，咱们就拭目以待吧。

I mean, it's it's still very much in its nascent period, so we we will see.

但OpenAI的负责人萨姆·阿尔特曼，一直公开表达他对硬件的憧憬。

But Sam Altman, who's the top guy over at OpenAI, has been very public about his hardware hopes and dreams.

不过他真正感兴趣的，未必是打造下一代革命性的电脑，甚至不一定是要做下一代革命性的手机。

But he isn't actually necessarily interested in building the next revolutionary computer or even the the next revolutionary phone for that matter.

他确实说过，现在的笔记本电脑和手机都是为AI到来之前的世界设计的。

He's actually said that today's laptops and phones were designed for a pre AI world.

所以他的意思是

So he

就连我们现有的这一整套技术，也还没准备好迎接他所期待的AI未来。

even thinks our current technology, slate of technology, isn't quite ready for the AI future that he's looking for.

但问题是，没人知道OpenAI到底在开发什么样的产品。

But the problem is that no one knows what kind of products that OpenAI is building.

他公开表示正在研发原型机，还夸那些早期原型做得特别棒。

So he's publicly said that they're working on prototypes, and he's also touted, like, oh, these early prototypes are so good.

我真是等不及了。

I can't wait.

但这些信息一直被严格保密。

But it's largely been kept a secret.

尽管如此，他们已经在硬件上投入了数十亿美元，同时还在加速推进上市进程。

Nonetheless, they've poured billions into its hardware effort, and at the same time, it's also racing for towards an IPO.

没错。

That's right.

他们花了65亿美元收购了IO Products，那是我和乔尼创办的公司，专门负责硬件研发，就是为了请他来带队。

I mean, they spent $6,500,000,000 to acquire IO Products, which was the product and engineering company that Joni and I founded to bring him in to lead this hardware effort.

但到目前为止，我们几乎没看到什么成果。

We haven't seen much from that effort.

我个人觉得，OpenAI现在打官司已经够分心了，还去搞硬件，更是雪上加霜。

And personally, I think OpenAI, this is a bit of a distraction, the lawsuit, but also chasing after hardware.

AI本身就已经够难了，光是持续推出顶尖模型就够让人头疼，现在还要去搞硬件，得协调整个供应链，这可是苹果最拿手的活儿。

The problem of AI is tough enough to figure out how to consistently deliver the best models to also build something in hardware which requires intense supply chain coordination and everything Apple is to be best at.

这根本就是两码事，像两家完全不同的公司。

That seems like another whole different company.

同时管两个，太难了。

Hard to run them both.

咱们就等着看这场官司怎么收场，以及OpenAI在硬件上到底能走多远吧。

So we'll see how this lawsuit shakes out and what OpenAI's future in hardware is.

是的。

Yeah.

正如我提到的，苹果今年二月就已经注意到了这一点。

And as I mentioned, Apple took notice back in February of this.

所以并不是说他们之前毫无动静。

So it's not like they're going from sideways.

他们现在的态度是，嘿。

They're saying like, hey.

别说了。

Stop it.

他们二月份本来给了 OpenAI 一个和解的机会，结果对方直接没回应。

They they gave OpenAI an opportunity to kind of have this resolution back in February, and then they just didn't respond.

所以我觉得，等他们真把官司打起来的时候，在我看来，他们已经攒足了底气，构建了一个相当有力的诉讼理由。

So I feel like at this point when they actually filed the lawsuit, they've built up to me, they've built out a pretty strong case to actually sue.

而且他们的指控也写得挺具体的。

And they were pretty specific about it too.

所以他们可不是随便说说，抓个笼统的商业秘密就说‘嘿，随便什么’。

So it's not like they just said generally catch all trade secrets, hey, whatever.

我们觉得你们在剽窃我们的创意。

We feel like you're taking our idea.

他们还引用了那个人说的话，说‘哈哈，我偷了东西’。

They had the guy saying, lol, I stole stuff.

没错。

Exactly.

当然，这是根据起诉书里的内容。

Again, according to the lawsuit.

但真正关键的是那些具体细节，比如苹果想保护的金属表面处理工艺。

But it's down to details like the metal finishing techniques that Apple wants to protect.

这一点特别重要，尤其是涉及到你们提到的供应链时。

And that's a key thing, especially when it comes to their supply chain, as you mentioned.

但很多人也说，就像你提到的，OpenAI 这么做确实不太好看，特别是还挖走了苹果的高层员工。

But many are saying, like you said, it does not look great for OpenAI, especially when you hire these former high level workers from Apple.

事实上，据彭博社报道，已有超过400名前苹果员工加入了OpenAI。

In fact, more than more than 400 former Apple employees, according to Bloomberg, have joined OpenAI.

这不仅是因为他们被这个打造下一代设备的机会吸引，还因为薪酬待遇实在太丰厚了。

And that's also because they are enticed by this opportunity to build this next generational device and also because they have just massive dazzling pay packages.

我看到领英上有些薪资数字，简直让人难以置信。

Mean, some of the pay that I've seen on LinkedIn is just crazy.

但我也想明确一点，苹果在这场诉讼中到底想达到什么目的？

But I wanna also make sure that we say, what does Apple ultimately want to achieve in this lawsuit?

首先，它希望OpenAI立即停止窃取它的商业机密。

Well, it wants OpenAI, first and foremost, to stop stealing its trade secrets, for one.

其次，它还要求OpenAI彻底放弃任何带有苹果痕迹的硬件计划。

But it also wants to scrap it wants OpenAI to scrap any hardware plans that it may have that may have a tinge of Apple in it.

换句话说，只要是可能被认定为苹果商业机密的项目，都得重新设计，从头再来。

So it basically says, like, anything that you're working on that may be construed as, like, our trade secrets, re engineer it, start over, start from square one.

但这不只是产品本身的问题，还包括供应链数据，这对OpenAI的影响可能非常巨大。

But it's not only just the product itself, it's also including the supply chain data, which could have a really massive impact on OpenAI.

没错。

That's right.

雷，要是别的播客想挖你，可别把我们的商业机密带过去。

Ray, if a competing podcast ever tries to poach you, don't don't give them our trade secrets.

明白吗？

Okay?

别把我们的商业机密带过去。

Don't give them our trade secrets.

对的。

Yeah.

我刚听说了个新词，叫‘cookie stuffing’。

I just learned about a new term and it is cookie stuffing.

不是说你买了一包双倍黑巧的米兰曲奇，周五晚上一口气吃完——这事儿我可没干过。

No, this isn't when you buy a pack of double dark chocolate Milano's and eat the entire bag on a Friday night speaking for a friend.

而是指公司或应用在你浏览器里偷偷植入自己的推广代码，好把根本不是自己带来的销量算到自己头上。

Rather, it's when a company or app attaches its affiliate code using computer cookies into your browser, which allows the app to claim sales it didn't actually drive.

虽然我个人觉得前一种‘偷藏饼干’的说法更有趣，但真正惹上麻烦的是后一种定义——也就是由比尔·盖茨的女儿菲比·盖茨创办的AI购物插件公司FIA，最近因为这事上了新闻，处境不太妙。

While the former definition of cookie stuffing sounds a little more fun personally, it's the latter definition that has FIA, the AI powered shopping plug in company founded by Phoebe Gates, the daughter of Bill Gates in the news and in a bit of trouble.

没错。

That's right.

微软的联合创始人之女菲比，骨子里也继承了她父亲那种创业精神。

The co founder of Microsoft's daughter Phoebe has the entrepreneurial spirit that her father has as well.

她和联合创始人索菲亚·基亚尼于2025年正式推出FIA，之后迅速为这款应用筹集了三千五百万美元。

She launched FIA officially in 2025 with her co founder Sofia Kiani, and subsequently went on to raise $35,000,000 for the app.

FIA能让用户一键比对新旧衣物、鞋履和配饰的价格，还能分析某些品牌在二手市场的保值情况，帮买家判断什么时候入手二手货更划算。

FIA allows users to compare prices for new and used clothing, shoes and accessories with one click, and it also provides insight into how certain brands hold value in secondary markets to help shoppers discern when to buy second hand.

不过，独立研究affiliate营销领域的本·阿德曼指出，FIA其实一直在用‘cookie注入’的手段，冒领那些它根本没促成的销售业绩，这既违反了各大数字平台的政策，也辜负了用户的信任。

However, according to Ben Adelman, an independent researcher in the affiliate marketing space, FIA was using cookie stuffing to claim sales it didn't actually drive, a violation of many digital platforms policies, as well as users trust.

简单说，只要你电脑上装了这个App，上网购物时，FIA就会在后台悄悄打开另一个标签页，偷偷把它的推广代码植入你的购物流程，然后立刻关闭。

Essentially, if you have the app installed in your computer and you were shopping online, Fia would secretly load onto another tab, inject its affiliate code into your shopping experience and then close.

等你最终下单时，系统会显示这笔交易是FIA带来的，可实际上，用户根本不知道这事儿，也从来没同意过。

When you went to make a purchase, it would appear that Fia helped drive the sale when in reality it was unknown and unintended by the user.

现在，FIA已经承认了这个问题，称：‘在过去24小时内，我们得知最近发布的一版代码导致部分用户的销售归属出现错误。’

Now, FIA has acknowledged the issue saying quote, within the last twenty four hours, we were made aware that in a recent release of our code base was causing misattributions from a subset of users.

一旦收到通知，我们的团队连夜排查、修复，目前已经解决了这个问题。

As soon as we were notified, our team worked overnight to identify, mitigate and has since resolved the issue.

但FIA还得花更多功夫来挽回损失。

But there will still be more damage to be undone by FIA.

比如，领先的合作伙伴与联盟营销平台Impact.com表示，由于这一行为违反了平台政策，已暂停了FIA的账户。

For example, impact.com, a leading partnership and affiliate management platform, said it suspended FIA's account due to this behavior that was inconsistent with our platform policy.

Ray，真没想到，听起来这么有趣的事儿，结果竟是个大问题。

Ray, very tough news for something that sounds as fun as cookie stuffing to turn out to be actually a bad thing.

这跟甜点可一点关系都没有。

And it has nothing to do with dessert.

我倒没觉得多失望。

I'm not so disappointed.

咱们聊聊在理想情况下，联盟营销应该是什么样子。

Let's talk about how affiliate marketing should work in an ideal setting.

假设你在Instagram上关注了一个博主。

So let's say you're on Instagram and there's an influencer you follow.

他们经常推广某个品牌或产品，就是他们用过或没用过的东西，但不管怎样，他们都在推。

They often are promoting like a brand or a product, some kind of item that they use, whether they actually use or not, but regardless, they're promoting it.

他们通常会附上一个带折扣码的联盟链接。

They often have an affiliate link that includes a discount code in it.

只要你点击了那个链接，就会在你的设备上保存一个叫Cookie的小文件。

So as long as you click on that link, and when you do, a small file called a cookie saves to to your device.

这个Cookie会记录下该联盟成员的ID。

And this cookie remembers the affiliate's ID.

所以，如果你作为买家后来去了那个网站，比如一个在线商店，真的想买博主推荐的产品，系统就会核对这个Cookie，然后把这笔销售归到该联盟成员名下，并计算佣金。

So now if I'm the shopper and I actually go to the website, some a store, an online store, and actually wants to buy the product that the influencer is promoting, the system verifies that cookie and then credits the sale to the affiliate and records the commission.

但问题是，FIA现在根本不是这么运作的。

The problem is that that's not happening in this case with FIA.

我上网看了看相关的讨论，很明显，话题早就炸了。

I went online to look at some of the chatter, and it's obvious, of course, it's been pretty lively.

但很多人并不相信Fia说的那套，什么只是个小技术故障。

And some aren't buying the fact that Fia said that, oh, it's kind of a technical bug.

我们根本不知道这事。

We weren't aware of this.

我们会马上修复这个问题。

We're going to go ahead and fix it.

但大家对她是否真的清白也充满怀疑，觉得她很可能知道得比她表现出来的要多得多。

But they're also quite skeptical of Gates' innocence in this manner, that she was probably more she's she knows more than she's kind of giving off.

她作为比尔·盖茨的女儿，本身又是网红，还做着一档名叫《Burnouts Podcast》的高调播客，邀请了众多大咖，自然受到更多关注。

And there's a lot of scrutiny on her because she's Bill Gates' daughter, of course, and that that she's an influencer and she has this flashy podcast called the Burnouts Podcast and has a lot of big names on it.

但也有人站出来为她辩护，说：

But then you have those who are actually coming to her defense saying, hey.

作为初次创业的人，她值得更多宽容。

People should get should give her a lot more grace because she's a first time founder.

出错在所难免。

Mistakes are going to be made.

而且可能因为她是个女性创业者，大家对她犯的错反应特别激烈，容易放大和抓住不放。

And that maybe because she is a female founder, there's a lot more of a bias to really, like, amplify and pounce on the mistakes that she's made.

是的。

Yeah.

我们也不确定，像你提到的，这是否是故意为之。

And and, you know, we're not sure if this was intentionally malicious as you noted.

我觉得我们还得再看看这些指控会怎么发展，以及Fia接下来会怎么回应。

And I think we we need to see where these allegations go a little further and how FIA continues to respond to them.

另外，这种事也不是第一次发生了。

In addition, this is not new.

Capital One的购物应用之前也出现过类似的问题，涉及联盟代码注入和cookie刷量。

Capital One also had a claim very similar with its shopping app about affiliate code injection and cookie stuffing.

所以这类情况在这个领域其实并不罕见。

So this is something that has happened in this space.

我不是在替这种行为开脱，但确实曾经发生过。

I'm not excusing behavior, but it is something that's happened.

不过，如果情况特别严重，可能会面临刑事起诉。

Although this can come with criminal prosecutions if it is super super intense.

在2010年代末，有两位联盟营销人员因诈骗eBay被刑事起诉，他们通过这种手段获利约3500万美元。

In the late twenty tens, two affiliate marketers were actually criminally prosecuted for defrauding eBay, which scheme that netted them about $35,000,000.

我不是说Fee的规模有这么大，但如果你应对不当，事情真的会变得很严重。

Not saying fee is at that scale, but this is something that can get serious if you don't respond properly.

不过，我觉得你的观点很有道理。

However, I think your point is very well taken.

我们之所以讨论这个，是因为创始人菲比·盖茨的姓氏——她父亲显然是比尔·盖茨。

The reason we're talking about this is because the last name of the founder, Phoebe Gates, her father obviously is Bill Gates.

他们背后的投资者，几乎都是业内响当当的大人物。

The investors they had was like a who's who of big name investors.

比如科勒·卡戴珊、西德尼·斯威尼、链式反应乐队，还有卡莉·克劳斯。

Khloe Kardashian, Sydney Sweeney, The Chainsmokers, Carly Klaus.

链式反应乐队。

The Chainsmokers.

我的意思是，

I mean,

看起来更像是一场音乐节的阵容，而不是投资人的名单。

it looked like a festival lineup, not necessarily investors.

他们把所有人都拉来了，所以这事现在热度很高。

They got everyone on board and so there's a lot of heat around this.

我觉得我的看法是，这其实对FIA长期有利。

I think my hot take is this actually helps FIA over the long term.

如果你以前没听说过FIA，现在肯定知道了。

Like, if you didn't know about FIA before, you certainly know about them now.

这事到处都在谈。

This is everywhere.

我觉得这一周媒体上还会继续热炒。

It's going to continue to be everywhere I think this week in the press.

我相信他们会做出调整，只要公司不至于被迫关门——我觉得不会发生——知道的人越多，尝试的人就越多。

I believe they'll make changes and unless the company is forced to shut down, which I don't see happening, more people know about it, more people will try it.

他们破坏了足够的用户信任，导致再也翻不了身吗？

Did they erode enough users trust to never come back?

咱们走着瞧吧。

We'll see.

但真正的损失其实不在用户，而在广告主和出版方。

But the real downside is not really to the user, it's to the advertisers and the publishers.

所以我觉得，这反而可能对他们有帮助。

So I think this maybe ends up helping them.

不过，这又是对《福布斯30位30岁以下精英》造假链条的一次打击。

However, it is another knock on the Forbes 30 to 30 fraud pipeline.

菲比·盖茨和她的联合创始人都上了《福布斯30位30岁以下精英》名单，这真是个巧合。

Both Phoebe Gates and her co founder were named to Forbes 30 under 30, which is a funny coincidence.

你可别莫名其妙地被列进这份名单里。

You do not wanna be on that list for some reason.

所以我才拒绝了，雷。

That's why I turned it down, Ray.

是的

Yeah.

所以我才拒绝了

That's why I turned

那是因为。

it down.

对。

Yeah.

当然了。

Of course.

当然了。

Of course.

你心地真好。

You've got a heart of gold.

这就是原因。

That's why.

好，

Okay.

我们继续吧。

Let's move on.

现在到了周末赢家环节，我们会选出两个本周最精彩的故事，就像折出了一只完美的纸鹤一样完美。

It's time for winners of the weekend, the segment where we pick two stories from the weekend that folded the perfect origami crane.

凯尔，你在节目前的游戏里赢了，你是那个在成人涂色本里最守边界的人。

Kyle, you won the preshow game of who can stay within the lines of our adult coloring book.

所以你先来。

So you get to go first.

我选的周末赢家是奈飞，雷。

My winner of the weekend, Ray, is Netflix.

商业圈里有个经典说法，说企业只有两种战略：整合和拆分。

And there's a famous business phrase that essentially says there's only two strategies in business, bundling and unbundling.

奈飞最早开创了拆分模式，对吧？

Netflix first pioneered the unbundling, right?

把观看内容从那些复杂又难以取消的有线电视套餐中剥离出来，那些套餐里塞满了你根本不想看的东西，甚至消除了你得专门开车去店里租碟的麻烦。

Stripping down the ability to watch content from complex cable subscriptions that you could never cancel, packed with things you didn't want, or even removing the friction of having to drive to the store to pick up movies or TV shows you wanted to watch.

但现在，Netflix正进入捆绑时代，计划进一步深入直播电视领域，增加播客和短视频，推出专为儿童设计的游戏应用，甚至直接把自家服务与其他数字内容平台，比如Peacock，打包在一起。

But now Netflix is entering its bundling era with plans to continue going deeper into live TV, adding podcasts and short form video, a new gaming app for kids and quite literally bundling its service or potentially bundling its service with other digital content providers like Peacock.

那么，Netflix为什么突然这么热衷于打包呢？

Now, why is Netflix seemingly bundle maxing?

因为用户参与度已经开始下滑，很多剧集的第二季都出现了明显的热度衰退，比如大热剧《烤肉》据说第二季相比第一季的观看量暴跌了70%；根据尼尔森的数据，今年四月Netflix在电视观众中的份额已跌至7.8%，是自2025年5月以来的最低点。

Well, subscriber engagement is showing signs of decline with many season twos of series showing a sophomore slump, like the hit show Beef, which reportedly had a 70% drop in engagement season over season, and Netflix share of TV viewership has fallen to 7.8% in April according to Nielsen, the lowest level since May 2025.

简单说，Netflix需要给你更多理由，让你持续打开它。

Simply put, Netflix needs more reason for you to tune in consistently.

它要的可不只是传统的直播电视内容。

And it's not just traditional live TV Netflix is after.

这家流媒体巨头周一宣布，已经订购了热门YouTube节目《Hot Ones》的衍生剧，那档节目由肖恩·埃文斯主持，让明星一边吃辣鸡翅一边聊天。

The streaming giant said on Monday that it had ordered a spin off of Hot Ones, the hit YouTube show with Shawn Evans where celebrities eat hot wings and talk about things.

新节目叫《Hot Ones Extra Heats》——名字还挺有创意——会在Netflix播出重大体育赛事、热门剧集或电影首映后的时段上线。

The new show, Hot Ones Extra Heats, very creative name there, will stream after the occasional major live sporting event or big series or film premiere on Netflix.

雷，我对Netflix最清楚的两件事就是：打开App时那声‘咚咚’总响得吓人，而且它总在不断自我干扰，就为了牢牢抓住你的注意力。

Ray, if there's two things I know about Netflix, it's that that dun dun when you load the app will always be too loud, and they will continuously disrupt themselves to stay on top.

我喜欢Netflix现在这种转变。

I like this movement in Netflix.

这是它不得不走的路。

It's something they have to do.

看到它这么做，我很欣慰。

I'm glad to see them doing it.

你知道这让我想起什么吗？

Well, you know what this reminds me of?

要么当个英雄死去，要么活太久，眼睁睁看着自己变成反派——如今的Netflix，早就离它当初颠覆有线电视的初心越来越远了。

Either die hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain because this is kind of far away from its roots when it first started out to disrupt the cable television landscape.

不过，Netflix确实想把你的眼睛牢牢锁住，这点你刚才也提到了，它确实面临用户粘性的问题。

But, yeah, Netflix wants to basically own your eyeballs, but it has an engagement problem, as you mentioned.

有人指出，这个问题其实源于它自己率先推广的东西——刷剧。

And some have pointed out that it kinda stems from something that it essentially pioneered, and that's binge watching.

你还记得吗？以前追剧特别爽，跟传统电视一比，如果你特别喜欢一部剧，只要挑个空闲的周末，就能一口气把整季看完，不用等上一周才看一集，也不用守着固定时间开播。

So if you remember, binge bingeing was great because when you compare it to traditional TV, you and you really enjoyed a show, and you you didn't all you had to do was pick a free weekend, and you're like, I can just watch this entire season and I didn't have to wait another week to watch an episode and sit and watch at a certain time.

但现在，你有TikTok了。

But today, you have TikTok.

现在你还有YouTube和Reels，这些平台正在抢走用户的注意力、眼球和时间。

Today, you have YouTube and Reels, which is which are platforms that are actually stealing away attention and eyeballs and time from its users.

根据eMarketer的数据，2024年时，TikTok的用户使用时长已经接近Netflix。

According to eMarketer, TikTok was near Netflix in terms of time spent back in 2024.

美国成年人每天平均在Netflix上观看62.1分钟，而在TikTok上则是58.4分钟。

US adults spent an average of sixty two point one minutes per day streaming and streaming on Netflix and fifty eight point four minutes per day on TikTok.

所以这两者之间的差距正在慢慢缩小。

So the gap is kind of closing there.

当然，还有YouTube，它的月活跃用户数通常超过任何其他流媒体平台。

And, of course, you have YouTube, who generally pulls in more monthly viewership monthly viewership than any other streaming platform.

根据尼尔森的报告，YouTube基本一直稳居第一。

It's constantly generally number one according to Nielsen's report.

在那里，我们可以同时接触到短视频和长视频。

And there, we have access to both short form and long form videos.

所以对奈飞来说，真正的竞争对手已经不是电视了。

So for Netflix, the real competition isn't TV anymore.

而是像抖音和YouTube这样的应用。

It's apps like TikTok and YouTube.

没错。

Yeah.

奈飞联合创始人里德·哈斯廷斯有句名言，说睡眠才是我们最大的对手。

There's a famous quote from Reed Hastings, the cofounder of Netflix that said sleep is our biggest competitor.

对吧？

Right?

如果把这句话推到极致，任何能抢走你注意力的东西，都是奈飞的竞争对手。

And I think if you take that quote to its logical conclusion, anything that can take your attention away from Netflix is a Netflix competitor.

对他们来说，不幸的是，现在争夺用户注意力的竞争比以往任何时候都更激烈。

Unfortunately for them, the the attention and the focus on getting your eyeballs away is more larger than ever.

我的意思是，YouTube也在竞争，所有流媒体平台基本都学了Netflix，差距也缩小了不少。

I mean, there's competition from YouTube, all of the streaming services have effectively copied Netflix and caught up a bit.

还有TikTok，还有睡觉，现在所有东西都在抢你的注意力。

There's TikTok, there's still sleep, and so everything is coming for your attention.

Netflix现在身处众多对手之中，必须打造能让人持续回流的内容IP。

Netflix is now in a field of many, and so they have to develop IP that keeps you coming back.

他们得想办法进入直播追剧的领域，因为这种模式人们还是愿意做的。

They have to find a way into live appointment watching TV because that's something that's people still wanna do.

他们正在尝试进军播客领域。

They're trying to find their way into podcasts.

感觉他们想找到一个完美的平衡点，让人像刷YouTube一样打开Netflix，随手就能刷到喜欢的内容。

It feels like they're trying to find this perfect mix where you can go to Netflix the same way you would go to YouTube and know you're gonna find something you like.

这将是他们最大的挑战。

That is going to be their biggest challenge.

不过，我依然不会看衰Netflix，因为这家公司历史上最突出的一点就是，总能主动颠覆自己。

Again, I wouldn't bet against Netflix though because if they've shown one thing during the history of this company, it's that they will continue to disrupt themselves.

我觉得他们在流媒体领域依然拥有最强势的品牌，现在的关键是他们该如何利用这个品牌优势，拓展到其他领域。

I think they still have the strongest brand in streaming, and it's how can they leverage that brand to move into everything else now.

对。

Yeah.

据报道，他们试图通过引入来自 BuzzFeed、Condé Nast、Variety 等出版商的短视频内容，来吸引并扩大受众群体。

Another way that they're trying to capture and expand audiences is reportedly they're using shorter video content by adding content from publishers like BuzzFeed, Conde Nast, Variety.

正如你刚才提到的，视频播客方面已经能看到一些这样的尝试了。

And you're already seeing some of this with what you said, video podcasts.

这也是他们的一种测试方式，看看订阅用户是否愿意观看那些通常在网上发布的短内容，比如新闻、生活方式类视频，还有各种教程。

It is a way for them to test out whether subscribers would be open to watching that shorter type of content that is typically for the web, such as news, lifestyle, how tos.

因为这些视频制作起来更快，而且更重要的是成本更低，跟那些有剧本的剧集比起来。

Because these are videos that are faster and, more importantly, cheaper to produce than, let's say, a scripted series.

对。

Yep.

所以事情是这样的。

So here's the thing.

但如果这招管用，人们开始回流到Netflix看这类视频，他们很可能就会加大这类自制内容的投入。

If it works, though, and if if people are finding to people are returning to Netflix to watch these types of videos, you could potentially see them starting to develop more in house content of this style.

好的。

Alright.

在聊我这周末的最爱之前，咱们先插个广告休息一下。

Well, before we get into my winner of the weekend, let's go ahead and take a quick break.

尼尔，你有没有错过过什么潮流？

Neil, have you ever been late to a trend?

有。

Yes.

果冻鞋。

Jelly shoes.

我的脚到现在还没缓过来。

My feet are still recovering.

每天你落后于AI，就等于掉队两天。

Well, every day you're late to AI, you fall two days behind.

甲骨文的NetSuite Next能帮你追上潮流。

NetSuite Next from Oracle helps you catch up.

已有四万三千家企业信赖它。

Trusted by 43,000 customers,

它能把你的财务、库存、人力资源和客户关系管理整合成一个统一的数据源，AI贯穿你所有的操作。

it can connect your financials, inventory, HR, and CRM into a single source of truth with AI built into everything you do.

个性化的洞察和AI助手，你想问什么都可以。

Custom insights and AI agents, you can ask anything.

适用于多种行业，无论你的年收入是几百万还是几亿。

Built for a wide range of industries, whether you're doing millions or hundreds of millions in revenue.

立即免费试用：netsuite.ai/brew。

Try it free at netsuite.ai/brew.

托比，咱们聊聊债券吧。

Toby, let's talk about bonds.

当然没问题。

Oh, for sure.

让我来介绍一下我的想法。

So here's my pitch.

故事开场是在瑞士阿尔卑斯山。

We open on the Swiss Alps.

我穿着一套燕尾服。

I'm wearing a tuxedo.

要是选错债券，你可不适合这个角色。

Wrong bond, and you would be terrible for that role.

我说的是先锋债券。

I'm talking about Vanguard bonds.

它们是机构级品质，这可不是随便说说的。

They're institutional quality, and that's not just a tagline.

这是对客户的郑重承诺。

It's a commitment to your clients.

意味着全线产品都是顶级水准。

It means top grade products across the board.

产品线包含超过80只债券基金。

The lineup includes over 80 bond funds.

这些基金由一支200人的全球团队主动管理，成员包括各领域的专家、分析师和交易员。

They're actively managed by a 200 person global squad of sector specialists, analysts, and traders.

想了解更多，请访问 vanguard.com/audio。

To learn more, head to vanguard.com/audio.

网址是 vanguard.com/audio。

That's vanguard.com/audio.

当Hydrojug的需求放缓时，亚马逊广告的新星海登·沃德斯沃思果断调整了方向。

When demand slowed for Hydrojug, Amazon Ads rising star Hayden Wadsworth pivoted.

当我们账户余额快见底时，我哥哥杰克和我只剩下最后一次机会来挽救Hydrojug。

When our bank account hit near zero, my brother Jake and I had one last shot to save Hydrojug.

于是我们设计出了这款防漏、兼容杯架的旅行杯。

So we engineered The Traveler, a leak proof, coupler friendly tumbler.

亚马逊广告能让企业拓展产品线，因为它提供了强大的曝光和广泛的覆盖。

Amazon Ads enables a business to be able to expand their product shelf because of the visibility and the reach you can get.

每周，我们新接触品牌的客户贡献了约95%的销售额。

Each week, our new to brand customers make up about 95% of all of our sales.

观看HydroJug的故事，请访问advertising.amazon.com/risingstars。

Watch HydroJug's story at advertising.amazon.com/risingstars.

我这个周末的赢家是大麻。

My winner of the weekend is marijuana.

没错，我就是这么说的。

Yep, I said it.

因为越来越多的雇主不再在意你晚上压力大时吃一颗大麻糖果，或者只是想在福尔特格林公园的长椅上放松一下。

That's because more employers are caring less about you popping a gummy at night after a stressful day or when you want to just vibe out on a bench at Fort Greene Park.

根据Quest Diagnostics的最新数据，去年尿检呈大麻阳性的人数比例从2021年的3.9%上升到了4.4%。

According to new data from Quest Diagnostics, the share of urine tests that are positive for marijuana use rose four point four percent last year, up from three point nine percent in 2021.

能追溯长达90天内用药情况的毛发检测显示，大麻使用率在更长时段内要普遍得多。

Hair tests, which can detect drug use as far back as ninety days, revealed far more widespread use over the extended period of time.

约有15%的受检员工呈阳性，比2021年飙升了60%。

About 15 of workers tested positive, a sixty percent jump from 2021.

这背后是多种因素共同作用的结果。

It's all from a combination of factors.

第一，越来越多的州开始合法化。

One, more states are legalizing it.

2016年到2023年间，有20个州实现了合法化，这在历史上是相当快的转变。

20 states legalized it between 2016 and 2023, a rapid change by historical standards.

如今，已经有24个州完全合法化了。

And today, 24 states have fully legalized it.

第二，使用的人也越来越多。

And two, more people are using it.

婴儿潮一代使用大麻的比例在2025年达到了历史最高，而Z世代我们之前在节目中也提到过，他们喝酒少了，但吸大麻却更多了。

Weed, weed among boomers hit its highest ever in 2025, and Gen Z, we've we've covered before in the show, are drinking less but are using marijuana more.

第三，特朗普政府正打算把大麻从一级管制重新分类为三级管制，也就是减轻处罚力度，这可能也会改变企业对药物检测的政策。

And three, then you have the Trump administration wanting to reclassify the drug from schedule one to schedule three, a less harsher classification, which could also affect employers' drug testing policies.

据《华尔街日报》报道，越来越多的雇主不再把吸大麻当成一个严重问题，它也不再像过去那样，会让人失去工作机会或难以找到工作。

According to the Wall Street Journal, more employers don't see it as a red flag anymore, and is no longer a deal breaker when it comes to keeping or getting a job that it once was.