退休需要多少钱才能幸福？

退休后需要多少钱才能过得幸福？

How much money does it take to be happy in retirement?

我是罗伯特·布罗坎普，在我与理财顾问兼作家韦斯·莫斯对话的第一部分中，我来回答这个问题，这是《傻瓜投资播客》周六个人理财版的内容。

I'm Robert Brokamp, and I get to answer that question in part one of my conversation with financial advisor and author Wes Moss on the Saturday personal finance edition of The Motley Fool Hidden Gems Investing Podcast.

播客。

Podcast.

我们都知道，退休需要一定的钱，但光有钱并不能让退休生活变得金光闪闪。

We all know that it takes a certain amount of money to be able to retire, but money alone won't make your retirement years golden.

如果说有谁对幸福退休的财务和非财务因素了解得特别多，那就是韦斯·莫斯。

And if there's one guy who knows an awful lot about the financial and nonfinancial ingredients to a happy retirement, it's Wes Moss.

韦斯是一名注册理财规划师，是亚特兰大资本投资顾问公司的首席投资策略师，也是《早日退休》播客的主持人，他写了五本书，包括最新的一本《早日退休法：美国最幸福和最不幸福退休者背后的五个秘密》。

Wes is a certified financial planner, the chief investment strategist at Capital Investment Advisors in Atlanta, the host of the Retire Sooner podcast, and the author of five books, including his latest, The Retire Sooner Method, The Five Secrets Behind America's Happiest and Unhappiest Retirees.

韦斯，欢迎回到节目。

Wes, welcome back to the show.

我不知道你还记不记得，大约一年前，我上次来的时候，我正在为这本书测试书名，是你拍板定了《早日退休法》这个名字。

I don't know if you remember this, but about a year ago, the last time I was here, I was testing out title ideas for this exact book, and you were the one that greenlit the Retire Sooner Method.

那就等着收钱吧。

Look for that.

因为我帮你起了书名，所以销售额的5%归我。

The 5% of sales that I will get because I helped you with your title.

对。

Yes.

你这么一说，我确实想起来了。

I do remember that now that you are reminding me.

而且我得说，我真的很喜欢这本书。

And let me just say, I really enjoyed the book.

我关注你的工作很多年了。

I've been following your work for many years.

实际上，你做这些调查和研究已经十多年了。

In fact, you've been doing these surveys and studies for well over a decade.

而你最新的这本书，很大程度上是基于你最新的研究。

And your most recent book is based in large part on your most recent research.

那跟我们说说最新的调查吧，你是怎么用它来找出你所说的“h robs”，也就是社区里最快乐的退休人士的？

So tell us about the latest survey and how you use it to identify what you call h robs, the happiest retirees on the block.

我也就是最近一个月才意识到，其实我从来没给这个过程贴过标签。有人问过我，比如你写书的流程是什么？

I realized only in the last month or so, and I've never really put a label on somebody asked someone asked about, like, what's your process about writing a book?

实际上，这些项目大多都源于我做广播和播客的经历。

And the reality is that most of these projects are outcroppings of me doing radio and podcasts.

我每周都会做好几次节目，我在亚特兰大的WSP电台做一档老式广播节目，叫《Money Matters》，到现在差不多有十八年了。

And what I do many times a week, I do a show on good old fashioned radio, if that still exists, in Atlanta on WSP radio called Money Matters, and I have been for, I think, almost eighteen years at this point.

哇。

Wow.

我通常从经济数据、市场数据、历史数据、人口统计数据，或者某项研究开始。

And I start with economic data or market data or historical data or demographic data as another example or a study.

然后我会试着把它画出来，真的画成图。

And then I try to draw a picture of that, literally a visual.

然后我通常会在播客和广播里讲述这些内容。

And then I usually have the narrative on podcasts and radio.

这些书就是这么来的，尤其是我的第一本书，讲的是金钱、幸福和提前退休，书名叫《你可以比想象中更早退休》。

And that's really what has happened with these books, particularly with my first book about money and happiness and early retirement called You Can Retire Sooner Than You Think.

我其实一开始没打算写书。

I really wasn't aiming to write a book.

我是想研究退休人群，找出那些不幸福的退休者，看看他们是怎么生活的，再找出幸福的退休者，看看他们又有什么不同。

I wanted to study the population and to find unhappy retirees and see what they do and find happy retirees and see what they do.

然后，这其实是为了做财经内容，因为对我来说，模仿我们大家都想成为的那类人非常重要。

And then, really, that was for financial content because it was so important to me to emulate the population that we all wanna be like.

当然，这不只是钱的问题。

Of course, it's not just about money.

我们想要的是幸福的退休生活，而所有那些细节才是让我们达到那个目标的关键。

We want a happy retirement and then all the pieces underneath that get us there.

所以我的流程是：先做研究，然后画图表、做分析，最后写叙事。这次，这个流程催生了我写过的最全面、最新的一本书。

So the process I go through is research first, then charts and analysis, and then narrative, which in this case has led to my most comprehensive, most up to date book that I've ever done.

这个调查加研究，我猜算是调查问卷吧，然后通过研究去匹配美国人口普查的数据。

And the survey slash research, I guess it's survey questions, and then it's research to go out and it to be mapped to the US census.

我们需要每个州都有人参与，按比例来说，男女人数要均衡等等，这样才能获得可靠的数据，样本量足够大，准确度才能让我们满意，我自己也能放心。

We need people from every single state on a relative basis, an equal number of male, female, etcetera, to be able to really have data that we can rely on in a certain size so that the sample set gives us a degree of accuracy that we're comfortable with and that I can feel good about first.

这次花的时间特别长。

And that took a really long time this time around.

有意思的是，当你确定了想问的问题之后，调研公司会帮你去做。

It's funny when your research firm is helping you after you you figure out what you wanna ask.

他们出去收集数据，要花很长时间才能确保数据跟美国人口普查的数据对应上。

They go out, and it takes a long time for them to really collect the data to make sure it's mapped to The US census.

前90%的数据收集得挺快，但最后那10%花了很长时间。

The first 90% goes pretty quickly, and then the last 10% takes a long time.

然后你拿回来的文件里，在Google表格或者Excel里，有54000个数据单元格，你看到的全是颜色标记，还有大写字母和小写字母，用来表示这个单元格和那个单元格之间的显著性。

And then you get back this file that has 54,000 cells of data in a Google Sheet or a Excel document, and all you see is color coding and capital versus letters versus small cap letters that show the significance from this cell to that cell.

一开始看那些东西就像看天书一样。

So that is just hieroglyphics in the beginning.

幸运的是，我团队里有一群数据高手，他们能帮我整理和深入挖掘这些数据，然后做成可视化图表，让我看到那些真正突出的关系，从而开始理解这些研究到底说明了什么，告诉了我什么。

And, thankfully, I have a team here of data wizards that can help assimilate and really explore that data, then get it into some level of visual to see the relationships, the ones that really stood out, to start to be able to understand what all the research really says and what it tells me.

这些数据能说明什么？

How does it inform?

我们能从中得到什么启示？

And what can we learn from it?

拿到初步图表后，我通常会自己动手画出来。

Once you get the initial graph, then I usually draw these out.

我每天都在画。

I draw every day.

不管是饼图、房子、图标还是退休时间表，我一直在画，而且我很喜欢重新制作这些图表。

Whether it's a pie chart or a house or some icon or a retirement timeline, I draw constantly, and I love to then recreate these charts.

所以这本书里有些画是我自己画的。

So some of the drawing in this book is for me doing it.

有些则是交给插画公司，让他们做得比我更专业。

Some of it is going to a illustration firm to make it even more professional than I can do.

所以这里的图表都是插画公司根据Excel表格里的图表或者我画的草图重新制作的。

So the charts here are redone by an illustration firm based on the exact Excel spreadsheet chart or the one I drew.

对我来说，这就是我做研究的过程。

And that to me is the process I go through with research.

所以并不是所有内容都会写进书里。

So not everything makes it in the book.

不是每个关系都那么重要，有些就被舍弃了。

Not every relationship is significant, and they kinda get thrown on the cutting room floor.

而那些真正有力的数据点会告诉我们，快乐的人群是这样做的，不快乐的人群是那样做的。

And the really powerful data points that say, this is what this happy population does, and this is what the unhappy population does.

然后这两者之间还有这样的关联。

And here's the relationship between those two.

这时候我就特别兴奋，因为我有故事可以讲，能帮助大多数美国人实现他们的愿望——提前几年退休，更早获得财务自由，并且确保当我们达到那个目标时，我们养成的生活习惯能让我们成为快乐的退休族，而不是不快乐的那一类。

That's when I get super excited to be able to have a story to tell and to help inform what most Americans would like to do is shave off a couple of years of working and be able to have financial freedom sooner and make sure that when we get there, we're doing the lifestyle habits that put us in the happy retiree camp and avoid the unhappy camp.

这就是我在这个世界上的使命。

And that that is my mission in the world.

我们办公室墙上写着：帮助家庭在退休中找到幸福。

On our wall here in our office, it says helping families find happiness in retirement.

我尽量在合理的时间内尽快补充进去。

I add, as soon as reasonably possible when I do my work.

这就是这本书的由来，当那些灵感闪现、你看到这些关系和能学到的东西时，真的特别有意思。

So that's the genesis of this, and it's so much fun when the light bulbs start to go off and you get to see these relationships and what we can learn.

这让我特别兴奋。

It's so exciting to me.

最辛苦的部分是把所有内容写进书里，但现在书完成了，马拉松式的阶段结束了，现在我可以稍微庆祝一下，喝点运动饮料，聊聊这本书，也许，你知道，跑完这么多英里后，来杯苹果酒。

The arduous part is getting it all into a book, but now that the book is done, the marathon part is over, now I get to celebrate a little bit, have some Gatorade and talk about it, maybe a, you know, a Mac Ultra after all of those miles.

对我来说，这才是最酷、最有趣的部分，而且能上像你这样的节目，我之前来过，谢谢你再次邀请我。

That to me is, like, the cool part, the fun part, and being on shows like you, which I've been here before, and thank you for having me back.

但这才是好玩的部分。

But this is the fun part.

我了解你的工作，也读过你的书，看起来有些研究证实了之前的研究。

Knowing your work like I do and then reading your book, it seemed that, you know, some of the research confirmed the previous research.

有些是新的见解，我们接下来会聊到这些。

Some of it was new insights, and we'll get to those.

还有一些是在之前研究的基础上，但用了更新的数据。

And some of it sort of, like, built on the previous research but with updated numbers.

那我们先从一个数字有变化的话题开始吧，这可能是大多数人一想到退休时最先想到的问题，就是一个人需要存多少钱。

So let's start with something for which the number has changed, and it's likely a topic most people first think about when it comes to retirement, which is how much someone needs to have saved.

那就跟我们说说更新后的“金钱绿区”吧。

So tell us about the updated money green zone.

这让我有点触动，这也是我被劝着、推着重新开始的一部分原因。

This started to get to me, and this is part of the reason I was coaxed into pushed into doing starting over.

因为我最初那本关于这类研究的书，差不多是十五年前写的了。

It's because my original book around this kind of research was almost fifteen years old.

我花了一年时间更新那本书，而且美国经历了一轮严重的通货膨胀。

And I spent a year updating that book, and we'd gone through all this hyperinflation in America.

我错误地以为，我只需要拿旧研究，按通胀调整一下就行。

And I wrongly assumed that I could just take my old research, update it for inflation.

比如，在我最初的相关研究中，退休者从不快乐群体跨入快乐群体的幸福拐点，是五十万美元。

For example, in my original work around this, the retiree happiness inflection point for going unhappy to the happy group was 500 k.

这在十五年前简直是异端邪说。

Now that was heresy fifteen years ago.

即使是十五年前，人们也说那点钱根本不够退休。

Even fifteen years ago, people said that's not nearly enough money to retire.

人们还说那钱太多了。

People also said that's way too much money.

我永远也攒不到那么多。

I can never get there.

我两头都挨批。

I got it from both sides.

当我仅仅根据通货膨胀更新这个数字时，结果变成了七十多万。

When I updated that just purely for inflation, the number came out to the mid 7 hundreds.

当我试图更新这本书时，我花了一整年时间。

And as I tried to update the book, and I spent a year doing it.

我整整花了一年时间。

I spent a whole year doing it.

到了那个时间点，也就是2024年底，我就直接说，这玩意儿不行。

At the end of that time, at the end of twenty twenty four, I just said, this is crap.

这根本就是没法把很久以前做的东西重新包装一下就算完事。

This is just you can't recreate and just dress up something you did a long time ago.

而且我不知道为什么，投入一个全面的研究项目会有点吓人。

And I don't know why committing to a full blown everything research project is a little scary.

我不知道我是不是想重新做这一切，因为那时候我已经跟全世界讲了这些习惯讲了十二三年了。

I don't know if I wanna redo all of this because I've been telling the world about all these habits for twelve, thirteen years at the time.

我猜我当时担心，如果我重新开始，可能会跟以前说的矛盾，那我就得全部重来。

And I guess I was worried that if I restarted it, it would contradict, and then I'd have to redo everything.

而且我们生活的这个世界有个奇怪的现象。

And there's a weird thing in the world we live in.

你写了一篇文章，然后十五年后，你猜怎么着？

You write an article, and then and fifteen years later, guess what?

它还在网上挂着呢。

It's still on the Internet.

那你怎么解释这个？

So how do you account for that?

然后我到了那个地步，我记得我坐在厨房里，说我对花了一年时间的项目感到沮丧，然后我说，你知道吗？

And then I got to the point where I remember I was sitting in my kitchen talking about how I was frustrated with the project that I'd spent a year on, and I said, you know what?

我打算完全重新开始。

I'm just gonna start over completely.

我不在乎所有研究结果是否完全不同、相似或不相似。

And I don't care if all the research comes back totally different, similar, not similar.

我说在我职业生涯的这个阶段，我不在乎。

I said at this point in my career, I don't care.

我需要真实的数据，因为如果我要教它，我必须对它完全有信心。

I need the actual data because I have to feel totally confident in it if I'm gonna teach it.

我必须看到，无论结果如何，那就是要讲的故事。

And I have to see that whatever it may be, that's the story to tell.

记住，数据第一，图表第二，叙事第三。

Remember, data first, chart second, narrative third.

对我来说，这真是一个巨大的跨越。

So that to me was a leap.

结果出来的数据跟以前不一样了。

The numbers came back differently.

所以如果有人去读我十二、十三年前写的关于金钱和幸福习惯的文章，那些内容现在都已经被这份新研究完全取代了。

So if somebody reads an article about money and happiness habits that I wrote about twelve, thirteen years ago, that is all superseded by this.

我做的那个关于美国金钱与幸福的研究，后来还出了一本书叫《提前退休法》，就是亚马逊上那本绿色的书。

The money and happiness in America study I did that eventually became the book, The Retire Sooner Method, which is the green book now on Amazon.

对。

Yeah.

数字不一样了。

The numbers are different.

所以不是500。

So it wasn't 500.

幸好我没用那个通胀调整后的743，我记着好像是这个数。

I'm glad I didn't go with the inflation adjusted 743, I think it was.

在我告诉你那个数字之前，我得说，这次我看待这个问题的方式跟以前完全不一样。

And before I give you that number, I looked at this in a different way than I've ever looked at it before.

这要归功于我们的首席投资官，他真是个数据天才。

And I give credit to our chief investment officer here who is a data wizard.

我们翻遍了所有这些数据，然后我们决定从整体人群的角度来看。

As we went through all of this data, we said we looked at the population.

我们就想，要是我们把这个习惯跟基准线做个对比，画成图表会怎么样呢？

We said, well, what if we mapped this or charted this habit in relation to the baseline?

所以，我们先确定整个研究的幸福基准线。

So let's get baseline happiness level for our entire study.

然后看看某个习惯是让我们高于基准线还是低于基准线，就像管理共同基金时，你想要超额收益一样。

Then we'll see if a habit takes us above the baseline or below it, kind of like if you're managing a mutual fund, you want alpha.

如果你管理对冲基金，你也想要超额收益。

If you manage a hedge fund, we want alpha.

如果标普指数涨了10%，我的基金涨了9%。

If the S and P is up 10%, my fund is up nine.

我这里是负一。

I've got negative one.

如果涨了15%，我就有五个点的超额收益。

If it's up 15, I've got five points of alpha.

这是好事。

That's a good thing.

我们就是这样做的图表，也是这样解读这些数据的。

That's the way we did the visuals, and that's the way we interpreted this data.

本质上，就是某个习惯带来的幸福超额收益。

Essentially, happiness alpha of a particular habit.

从流动投资资产的角度来看，当幸福超额收益开始出现，或者说幸福水平明显高于美国幸福基线时，那个起点是一百万美元。

And where alpha starts or happiness levels show that they rise well above The US happiness baseline from a liquid investment asset perspective, the category where it starts to be a way above The US happiness baseline is a million dollars.

下一个仍然略微上升的区间是三百万美元以上的人群。

The next category where it still rises ever so slightly is the 3,000,000 plus camp.

所以只要达到那个水平，我的数据显示，总体上，人们的幸福水平会显著更高。

So as long as we get to that level, my data shows that, in general, the population has significantly higher levels of happiness.

幸福可以有很多种定义，但其中包含内心的平静。

Now happiness can be defined a lot of ways, but there's peace of mind there.

我看了数据，家庭收入的绿色区间从10万美元开始。

I looked at it, and the green zone for household income starts at a 100 k.

我觉得你的很多听众很快就能理解这一点，他们会明白的。

And I think a lot of your listeners will be able to consume that quickly, and they'll get that.

但也有红色区间和黄色区间，在这些区间里，人们的幸福水平远低于基准线。

But there's also the red zone and the yellow zone where people go levels of happiness that are way below the baseline.

这确实反映了美国人的情况，不管你同不同意这些数字。

And it just speaks to Americans whether you agree with numbers or not.

有些人说这还不够。

Some people say that's not enough.

有些人说我一辈子也赚不到一百万。

Some people say I can never get to a million.

这些数字与更高的退休幸福感和内心平静相关，对我来说，这真的很有力量。

Those are the numbers that correlate to higher levels of retirement happiness and peace of mind, and that to me is really powerful.

你在书里指出的一个让人幸福的方面，至少是在钱方面，就是知道自己不会没钱花的那种安心感。

One of the aspects that you point out in your book about what makes someone happy, at least when it comes to the money, is just the comfortability of knowing that you're not gonna run out of money.

我觉得你书里一个有趣的见解是，这是每个人都有的恐惧，即使是很有钱的人也一样。

And I thought one of the interesting insights from your book was that's a fear everybody has, even people with a lot of money.

根据你的书，资产超过一百万但不到三百万的人中，有39%担心没钱花，而资产在三百万或以上的人中，也有25%担心这个问题。

According to your book, thirty nine percent of people with more than a million, less than 3,000,000 fear running out of money, and even 25% of those with $3,000,000 or more are worried about running out of money.

我知道很多人听到这个会说，他们怎么可能会这么想呢？

And I know a lot of people hearing that will say, how can they possibly feel that way?

但我觉得这是一种很自然的恐惧。

But I think it's just a natural fear.

你在书里引用了这个数据。

In your book, you cite the stat.

有研究发现，比起死亡，更多人担心的是没钱花。

There's the study from that found that more people are worried about running out of money than dying.

那么，你怎么管理退休生活，才能让你在进入那个绿色区域后，对自己拥有的金额感到满意呢？

So how do you manage your retirement in a way that you can feel good about the amount that you have once you're over in that green zone?

是不是很惊人？

Isn't that amazing?

如果你看我们图表上的数据，确实，担心钱花完这个主要恐惧在资产越高的人群中比例会下降，但它不会消失。

Now if you look at the chart the way we lay that out, yes, the fear of running out of money as a primary fear comes down as a percent of the population within higher and higher asset bands, but it doesn't go away.

我很高兴这能引起你的共鸣，因为对我来说，一个拥有三百万流动资产的人，顺便说一句，这意味着他们的净资产可能有六七千万，他们还会紧张，这真的很震惊。

I'm so glad that that resonates with you because that's a shocker to me that somebody with 3,000,000 liquid, which, by the way, means they probably have a $67,000,000 net worth, they're nervous.

担心钱花完是最大的恐惧之一。

That's a top fear running out.

作为一位理财教育者，我是这么看的。

And I think of this as a financial educator.

我们可以学习一些策略来减少对金钱的焦虑。

We can learn tactics that help reduce our money anxiety.

在投资章节里我提到了分散投资，还有我的“干火药”原则，就是在你的整体配置中保留三年以上的安全资产，因为平均熊市持续2.9年。

Diversification, I talk about in the investment chapters here, my dry powder principle, which is three years plus of safety assets in your overall allocations, knowing that the average bear market lasts two point nine years.

所以这背后是有一些年份支撑的。

So there's some years behind that.

这就是为什么你的投资组合可以这样构建，这应该能减轻你的焦虑。

Here's the education of why your portfolio could be structured like this, and that should reduce your anxiety.

你不用担心钱会花光，我们会遵循4%加规则。

You don't need to worry about running out of money, and we'll follow the 4% plus rule.

4%加规则在30多年的时间里，98%的情况下都有效。

4% plus rule works 98% of the time for thirty plus years.

所以，你接受了所有这些教育，你可能就不会有那种恐惧了。

So you get all that education, and you probably don't have that fear.

但只需要几周，也许几个月不重新回顾这些内容。

But it only takes a couple of weeks, maybe a couple of months without revisiting that.

我们生活的头条新闻太吓人了，所有这一切就像海啸冲上海滩一样被冲走，突然间，那些房子就没了。

And the headlines that we live in are so scary that all of that gets washed away like a tsunami on the beach, and all of a sudden, those houses are gone.

那座信心和理解的房子，就这样被抹去了。

That house of confidence and understanding, it just gets wiped away.

它消失了。

It's gone.

而实际上，我们内心深处的恐惧并不是那些头条新闻本身。

And that's the reality of the underlying fear we have is not the headline.

而是这些头条对我们的钱意味着什么。

It's what the headline means for our money.

像金融危机、银行危机、熊市，还有熊市加衰退这些词。

And the word financial crisis and banking crisis and bear market and bear market with recession.

那是什么意思呢？

What does that mean?

是不是意味着我会被彻底击垮？

Does it mean it wipes me out?

我不记得了，因为我一两个月没看这些了，也忘了为什么我不该有这种金钱焦虑。

I don't remember because I haven't looked at this for a month or two, and I forget why I shouldn't have this money anxiety.

所以，让自己在财务上保持信心，其实是一项持续的运动。

And that's why the world of keeping ourselves feeling confident financially very much is an ongoing sport.

它不是一次性的事情。

It is not a one time event.

这需要不断提醒自己，不断学习，提醒，学习。

It's a constant reminder, education, reminder, education.

而我认为把这些串联起来的关键，就是书面的规划。

And what I think holds that all together is written planning.

你可以自己或者和顾问一起，画出一条退休时间线。光是画出这条线，看看你今天拥有什么，未来目标退休区间是什么，这个动作本身就有意义。

And you can draw out a retirement timeline, either you by yourself or you with an adviser, and just the act of drawing out a timeline, seeing what you have today, target retirement zone in the future.

我打算存这么多。

I'm gonna save this much.

到时候大概应该有多少。

Here's about what I should have.

用4%法则算一下，再加上社保，可能还有养老金、一些房产收入，就这样。

Take the 4% rule, apply it to that, plus Social Security, maybe a pension, some real estate income, and voila.

我就有了一条保守的路线图和时间线，这在心理上可以说是最重要的解药之一，能减轻甚至消除很多美国人内心深处的那种恐惧，就是——嘿。

I've done a conservative road map timeline that is one of the main elixirs in the world that we live in psychologically to reduce or eliminate the very deep rooted fear so many Americans have, which is, hey.

我只是不想把钱花光。

I just don't wanna run out of money.

你的研究中另一个有趣的方面是退休与房贷是否还清之间的关系。

Another interesting aspect of your research is the relationship of retirement and whether the mortgage is paid off.

我认为这在某种程度上是相关联的，因为如果你担心钱不够花，你就会担心能不能付得起账单。

And I think it's tied to this to a certain degree because if you're worried about running out of money, you're worried about covering your bills.

而房贷通常是最大的那笔开销。

And the mortgage is the biggest bill.

如果你不还的话，你知道的，要是把情况推到极端，你会想，天哪。

And if you don't pay it, you know, the if you really wanna take it to the extreme, you're like, oh my gosh.

我可能会失去我的房子。

I could lose my house.

能跟我们讲讲你的研究吗？关于退休后的幸福感，以及还清房贷的影响。

So tell us about your research in terms of retirement happiness and having the mortgage paid off.

这是另一个很好的例子，我问了一个类似的问题，差不多是十五年前的事，现在有了更新的数据。

This is another good example of asking a similar question that I did almost fifteen years ago and getting updated numbers.

绝大多数美国人都锁定了低利率的房贷，因为过去很长一段时间利率都是零。

The vast majority of Americans have locked in low mortgages because we had zero interest rates for so long.

顺便说一句，现在的美国家庭净资产达到了历史最高水平。

By the way, home equity right now is about as much as it's ever been in the history of America.

房屋净值占房价的比例高达71%到72%，这是一个非常惊人的数字，也是目前美国财富效应如此显著的重要原因之一。

It's 71, 72% of housing value is equity, which is a remarkable number and a big part of why we have such a big wealth effect in America right now.

但从心理层面来看，当你不再需要每月给银行写一张两千三百零四美元或五千美元的支票时，会发生一些非常重要的变化，这种不用再把这笔钱作为生活负担的感觉意义重大。

But the psychological piece of the equation of no longer having to write a check that's $23.04, $5,000 a month to a bank, something very significant happens as writing that check gets closer to not having to be part of your life anymore.

我们来看看美国的退休幸福感基线数据：当距离退休还有九年或更少时，人们的幸福感会显著提升，当然，九年时间其实也不算短。

Looking at US retirement baseline, happiness levels jump once we get to nine years or less, which, by the way, that's still a lot of years.

然后它就会进入我所说的住房资金绿色安全区。

And then it stays in what I would call the housing money green zone.

一旦房贷彻底还清，我们的幸福感水平就会持续高于美国的幸福基准线。

It continues to be well above US happiness baseline on a happiness propensity level once our mortgage is paid off completely.

零年。

Zero years.

所以我认为退休时不一定要把房贷还清，但最好能看到还清的希望。

So I don't think retirees have to have their mortgage paid off when they stop working, but I think payoff should be within sight.

这本书里的研究清楚地表明，这是财务方程中一个强有力的部分。

It's shown clearly in this research in the book that that's a powerful part of the financial equation.

这是我和韦斯·莫斯讨论第一部分的结尾。

That's the end of part one of my discussion with Wes Moss.

明天请继续收听我们接下来的对话。

Tune in tomorrow for the rest of our conversation.

在那之前，非常感谢你的收听。

Until then, thanks so much for listening.

还要感谢本期节目的工程师巴特·香农，他是整个傻瓜帝国里个子最高的人。

And thanks to Bart Shannon, the engineer for this episode and the tallest man in all of Fooldom.

一如既往，本节目中的嘉宾可能对他们谈论的投资感兴趣，而The Motley Fool可能对这些投资有正式的推荐或反对意见。

As always, people on this program may have interest in the investments they talk about, and The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against.

所以不要仅仅根据你听到的内容就买卖投资。

So don't buy or sell investments based solely on what you hear.

所有个人理财内容都遵循Motley Fool的编辑标准，并且未经广告商批准。

All personal finance content follows Motley Fool editorial standards and is not approved by advertisers.

广告是赞助内容，仅供信息参考。

Advertisements are sponsored content and provided for informational purposes only.

要查看完整的广告披露信息，请查看我们的节目说明。

To see our full advertising disclosure, please check out our show notes.

我是罗伯特·布罗坎普。

I'm Robert Brokamp.

大家继续加油。

Fool on, everybody.