万事达卡首席执行官：AI购物代理、机器对机器支付以及商业新基础设施

谁坐在中间，推动互操作性，确保所有这些都能连接起来，而不是一团乱麻，你知道，一盘意大利面？

Who sits in the middle and drives interoperability and makes sure all of this connects and is not a spaghetti, you know, a plate full of spaghettis?

万事达卡。

Mastercard.

所以这个季度我们正在完成对一家名为BB and Pay的公司的收购，这是全球最大的稳定币平台，用来把这一切连接起来。

So we're closing this quarter an acquisition of a company by the name of BB and Pay, which is the largest stablecoin platform out there to connect all of this for the world.

那是万事达卡CEO迈克尔·米巴赫，他谈到了为什么碎片化的稳定币和数字支付世界需要有人来统筹全局，以及为什么万事达卡打算成为那个人。

That was Michael Miebach, CEO of Mastercard, on why the fragmented world of stablecoins and digital payments needs someone to hold it all together, and why Mastercard intends to be that someone.

我是Motley Fool的制作人巴特·香农。

I'm Motley Fool producer Bart Shannon.

上周的第一部分，汤姆·加德纳和迈克尔讨论了万事达卡的支付网络如何运作，15.6万亿美元的网络安全威胁，以及为什么稳定币是机遇多于威胁。

Last week in part one, Tom Gardner and Michael covered how Mastercard's payment network works, the $15,600,000,000,000 cybersecurity threat, and why stablecoins are more opportunity than threat.

本周的第二部分，他们深入探讨了未来，AI购物代理，机器对机器支付，万事达卡如何考虑资本配置，以及AI革命对就业和消费者支出的真正意义。

This week, in part two, they get into the future, AI shopping agents, machine-to-machine payments, how Mastercard thinks about capital allocation, and what the AI revolution really means for employment and consumer spending.

希望你喜欢。

Hope you enjoy.

我们来谈谈代理商务吧，就是AI成为客户的主要关系方，对吧。

Let's talk about agentic commerce, where AI becomes the customer's main relationship, and Right.

然后那笔交易就开始寻找最便宜的替代方案。

That that transaction then starts to look for the cheapest alternative.

也许我们也可以聊聊AP四M。

Maybe we can talk about AP four m, as well.

我不知道GPT是否应该允许这个，但我在这里创建了一张P四的图片。

I don't know if GPT should have allowed this, but I created an image here of a p four.

实际上，它把万事达卡的标志放在了中间，这让人怀疑GPT是否应该能够放置标志。

I actually it actually put the Mastercard logo in the center there, which makes it questionable as whether GPT should be able to place logos.

不过，不管怎样，我想听听关于AP四M的一些内容，然后我会停止我的……

But, anyway, I'd like to hear a little bit about AP four m, and I will stop my

好的。

Alright.

第三屏就到这里。

Third screen at that.

那我们先来讲讲智能体商务吧，把它稍微拔高一点，然后再聊AP四M，到那时候我也能解释清楚那到底是什么意思。

So let's talk about agentic commerce first and hang it up a little bit higher before we come to a p four m, and I can also decipher what that actually means when we get there.

所以智能体商务。

So agentic commerce.

所以实际上发生的是什么呢？在传统的在线购物中，你今天可能会去你最常用的搜索引擎或网站，输入你想找的东西，它会给你一堆赞助链接，然后再给你一些其他链接，然后你自己选择去哪里。

So what what what's actually happening is so in straightforward online commerce, what happens today is you might go and go to your favorite search machine search website and just put in whatever you're looking for, and it will give you a bunch of sponsored links, and then it gives you a set of more links, and then you you pick where you go.

或者你可能会被那些烦到，直接去你最常用的购物平台。

Or you might be just irritated by all of that and just go straight to your favorite marketplace.

这些都是我们作为消费者可能经历过的事情。

Those are all things that we probably have experienced as consumers.

刚才你提到了一个大型语言模型，还用它生成了那张好看的图片。

Now you just referred to an LLM where you created this lovely image just now.

你用的是ChatGPT这个例子。

ChatGBT is the example that you used.

所以你今天可能想做的是，为你想要做的事情，得到一个可能更好更全面的答案。

So what you might want to do today is get a potentially better and more holistic answer for whatever you're trying to do.

比如说你想去露营，然后问，露营需要带什么？

Let's say you wanna go on a camping trip and say, what do I need for a camping trip?

它会给你列出15样东西。

And it gives you 15 things.

因为它了解你的历史，它本来可以给你列25样，但它已经知道你有帐篷了。

And because it knows your history, it could have given you given you 25 things, but already knows knows you have a tent.

所以它不会推荐帐篷给你，而是给你那些你缺的、而且对那个目的地确实有用的东西。

So it's not offering the tent to you, it's giving me all the things you don't have that for that particular destination actually makes sense.

所以就算你得到了这个结果，想象一下你还是得去每个网站，说，好，我现在要去找那个帐篷，或者找那个小炉子，或者不管是什么东西，然后你到处跑，结果你花了半天时间在计划行程上。

So if you have that result, then imagine you still have to go to every single website and say, alright, I'm gonna find that tent now, or I'm gonna find that little cooker, or whatever the ingredient is, and then you're all over the place, and you have just wasted half a day planning your trip.

如果你能在那一刻直接结账，不管那个推荐来自你最喜欢的哪个大语言模型，然后说“我就在这里结账”，那岂不是容易得多？

Wouldn't it be much easier if you could check out right in that moment on whatever that recommendation is from the favorite LLM of your choice, and say, I'm gonna check out right there.

我会把结账交给代理，交给一个代理，在这种情况下就是那个大语言模型，它帮你完成所有结账，后面用万事达卡支付，然后一切就搞定了。

I'm gonna delegate the checkout to the agent, to an agent, which in this case would be the LLM, that does all the checkout for you, and it uses a Mastercard behind it, and everything works.

那会容易得多。

Would be so much easier.

要实现这一点，我们需要认识到，突然之间出现了一个以前从未有过的实体，那就是代理。

Now for that to happen, we need to recognize that suddenly there's an entity in between that never existed before, that's the agent.

然后回到网络安全的话题。

And then back to cybersecurity.

我们怎么知道这个代理是已知的代理，而不是欺诈性的代理呢？

How do we know that this agent is actually an agent that is known and it's not a fraudulent agent?

这个代理确实是在做你想做的事，比如为你的露营之旅买东西，而不是在武装其他东西。

That the agent is actually what you're trying to do, buy stuff for your camping trip and not arming something else.

或者这个代理是否会犯错。

Or that the agent actually makes mistakes or not.

它订了两个烤架，而不是一个。

It orders two grills instead of one.

那么你怎么证明这一点呢？

So how do you prove that?

最后，当你的卡被扣款时。

In the end, when your card would be debited.

这些都是我们考虑过的事情，如今在万事达卡的支付世界里，简单的支付已经很容易实现了。

So those are all things that we thought about that today in the world of Mastercard payments, straightforward payments work very easily.

你可以申请退款。

You have a chargeback.

你总是受到保护。

You always protected.

他们说这从未发生过。

They said it never happened.

我从未订购过那个，你只需取消整个交易。

I never ordered that, and you just undo the whole thing.

所以我们创建了Agent Pay。

So we created Agent Pay.

Agent Pay基本上是一种协议，确保代理被认可为生态系统中的额外一方，并具有资质。

And Agent Pay is basically a protocol that ensures, that an agent is recognized as accredited as an additional party in the ecosystem.

所以那可能是一个大型语言模型，或者是一个拥有覆盖所有品牌代理的大型零售商，等等。

So that could be an LLM, or it could be a very large retailer that has an agent for all their brands, etcetera.

所以这是注册好的。

So that's registered.

接下来，这笔交易是完全令牌化的。

The next thing is that this transaction is fully tokenized.

也就是说，和这笔交易相关的每一条数据都会被记录在案。

What that means is every bit of data associated with this transaction is captured.

这样就能有一个凭证，证明这确实是消费者想要做的。

So there can be a as a, you know, a proof point to say this is exactly what the consumer wanted to do.

然后，生态系统中的各个参与者，无论是商家的银行还是消费者的银行，所有人都会知晓，流程就和现在的万事达卡交易一样。

Then the various parties in the ecosystem, the bank of the merchant and the bank of the consumer, everybody knows, and it flows the same way as it does today at a Mastercard transaction.

这里面技术含量很高，我就讲到这个层面吧。

So it's very, very technical, so I'm gonna keep it at that level.

所有这些都是正在发生的，整个生态系统已经准备就绪，这类交易现在已经开始进行了。

So all of this is what is happening, and the ecosystem is ready, and these transactions are starting to flow now.

对我们来说，这是不是一个增长的机会呢？

So for us, is this a growth opportunity?

是的。

It is.

是的，因为代币化是我们销售的一项服务。

It is because tokenization is a service that we sell.

所有这些交易都完全代币化了，这与当今现实世界不同，目前并非每笔交易都已代币化。

All these transactions are fully tokenized, which is very different than the real world today, where not every transaction is tokenized just yet.

所以这是一个增长机会。

So that's a growth opportunity.

这些交易相关的网络安全解决方案对我们来说也是一个增长机会，等等。

The related cybersecurity solutions for these transactions is a growth opportunity for us, etcetera.

人们会买更多吗？说到底，他们会买五个十而不是一个吗？

Will people buy a lot more full you know, bottom line?

他们会买五个十而不是一个吗？

Will they buy 5 tens instead of one?

不会。

No.

所以这其实是对现有流程的一种替代，但给万事达卡带来了额外的服务机会。

So it's a bit of a replacement of existing flows, but with additional service opportunity for Mastercard.

我插一句，这样会不会有问题？

Am I wrong to just insert one thing?

我这样想是不是不对：这会不会带来更多的交易？

Am I wrong to think that it might lead to more transactions?

因为一切变得顺畅多了。

Because it becomes so much more frictionless.

一旦有代表替我处理事务，我可能会……

Once once I have a representative acting on my behalf, I might be And it

发现一些我自己本来不会发现的新东西。

find new things that I wouldn't have found myself.

有可能。

It could.

你很可能会得到更好的推荐，所以你的购买意愿可能会提高。

You most likely will have a better recommendation, so your propensity to buy something might increase.

对。

Mhmm.

对我们来说，另一个重要点是，这里有一个巨大的交易增长乘数效应。

The other thing for us is there is a big there there is a transaction growth multiplier.

如果你今天去一个市场，从同一个商家那里买所有东西，而不是去不同的商家，进行不同的单独交易。

If you would have instead today gone to a marketplace and have bought everything from one one merchant, vis a vis go to different merchants and have different individual transactions.

所以有一个交易乘数，我们基本上是在促进交易。

So there's a transaction multiplier that we we basically facilitate transactions.

这就是我们的商业模式。

That's our business model.

所以对我们来说，这有那样的影响。

So it has that kind of an impact for us.

但总体GDP不会大幅上升，因为你仍然需要一个终点，而不是五个。

But it's still, overall GDP will not dramatically rise, because you still need one to end and not five.

但现在还有另一面，这非常有趣。

But now here's the other side of this, and this is very interesting.

现在我们来到了PAP4M，也就是代理支付，Mastercard的机器代理支付。

Now we're coming to a four p a p four m, which means agent pay, Mastercard agent pay for machines.

所以如果你从B2B商业的角度来想，就是一家公司与另一家公司之间的交易。

So if you think in the context of b to b commerce, one company with another company.

想想采购部门，首席采购官代表公司从某个供应商那里买东西的情况。

Think about the procurement the chief procurement officer buying stuff on behalf of the company from some provider, some supplier.

所以目前，这一切都是账户对账户进行的。

So today, this is all from happening account to account.

发票正在被保存。

Invoices are being saved.

发票也在被支付，诸如此类的事情都在发生。

Invoices are being paid, all of that.

但你可以想象一下，公司购买的那些数字内容，可能是 API 接口，可能是数字资料，也可能是数据或者算力，反正就是这些东西。

But imagine, the digital content that a company is buying, that could be APIs, that could be digital content, that could be data, that could be compute power, it could be all of those things.

那你为什么还要去开发票、走那些流程呢？

Why would you send an invoice and do that?

你在实际使用计算资源的时候，肯定希望采用这种方式。

You will want to do this as you, you know, as you use your compute power.

比如你需要增加百分之十的算力，随时调高或调低，用多少付多少。

So I need 10% more, you dial it up, you dial it down, and you pay as you need.

这样按需付费的话，你的营运资金效率会大幅提升。

If you pay as you need, your working capital efficiency is gonna dramatically increase.

那么，我们该如何构建一个始终在线、支持高频小额微支付（哪怕只有几美分）的支付生态系统呢？

So how do we get an e a payment ecosystem that can facilitate always on high velocity micro fractions of a dollar kind of payments?

这些是现在还不存在的支付方式。

Payments that don't exist today.

这正是首席采购官所期望的。

Well, that's what the chief procurement officer wants.

这是为了实现全面优化。

It's total optimization.

这也是财务部门和CFO所希望的，他们希望以最有效的方式使用公司的资金。

That's what the treasury wants, what the CFO wants to really use the capital of the company in the most efficient way.

所以我们最近刚推出了针对机器的Agent Pay协议，这基本上是我之前提到的Agent Pay的进一步演进版本，它正好实现了所有这些功能。

So we've launched just very recently the agent pay for machines protocol, which basically is a further evolve evolution of agent pay, which I described a bit earlier, and it just facilitates all of that.

具体技术细节我就不多讲了，因为那个太专业了。但它确实能在不同机器之间，以机器速度、机器规模，实现即时、高速的小额支付，而且有Mastercard在背后提供各种保护和支持。

I spare you the technical details because that goes even further, but it does facilitate immediate high velocity micro tickets between different part different machines at machine speed, at machine scale, with protections and with everything else that Mastercard promises in be behind them.

底层的支付通道和基础设施可能会和银行卡支付网络有所不同。

The underlying rails and infrastructure are likely to be different than card rails.

可能是稳定币。

It could be stablecoin.

也可能是其他形式和其他的支付通道。

It could be other for and, you other rails for that.

最终基本上取决于各家公司的选择和他们的需求。

That is probably that is essentially gonna come down to the choices of companies, and what they want to use.

我们对此持比较开放的态度，但在上层保持信任和互操作的协议才是关键。

We're pretty agnostic about that, but the protocol to keep the trust and interoperable layer on top is critical.

关于稳定币，最后再说一点。

Now here's the last thing in on stablecoins.

所以，代理支付、稳定币、代理商务，这是未来全新的商务方式。

So agent pay, stablecoins, agentic commerce, this is whole new way of doing commerce going forward.

如果你展望未来一年，会有多条链。

And if you just play that out over the next year, you're gonna have multiple chains.

会有多种稳定币货币在后台支撑这一切，同时还有卡系统和账户对账户。

You're gonna have multiple stablecoin currencies that might be powering all of this in the background, along with card systems and account to accounts.

你会面对一个非常复杂的世界。

You have this very complicated world.

所以，你是A公司，我是B公司，我们只想进行机器对机器的支付，但你选择稳定币A，我选择稳定币B。

So you're company a, I'm company b, and we just want to do machine to mean machine payments with each other, but your your choice is stablecoin a and my choice is stablecoin b.

你怎么付给我，我又怎么接收你的稳定币？

How are you gonna pay me and how am gonna receive that stablecoin from you?

谁来居中协调，推动互操作性，确保这一切连接起来，而不是一团乱麻？

Who sits in the middle and drives interoperability and makes sure all of this connects and is not a spaghetti, you know, a plateful of spaghettis?

万事达卡。

Mastercard.

所以我们在本季度完成了一项收购，对象是一家名叫 BB and K 的公司，它是目前全球最大的稳定币平台，负责将这一切连接起来。

So we're closing this quarter an acquisition of a company by the name of of BB and K, which is the largest stablecoin platform out there to connect all of this for the world.

这正是我们目前在卡业务中做的事情，未来在稳定币的世界里，我们也会继续这么做。

That's what we do in cards today, and that's what we will do in the brave world of stablecoins.

你刚发现销售团队可能完不成业绩指标了。

You just found out that your sales team is at risk of missing quota.

别慌。

Don't panic.

直接问问 Rippling AI 就知道了。

Just ask Rippling AI.

因为它基于你实时的员工和业务数据，Rippling AI 能把 Rippling 和 Salesforce 里的指标拉取出来，生成一个随时能用于会议的仪表盘，展示各地区的配额完成率、人员编制计划以及月度营收与配额的对比情况。

Since it's built on your real time people and business data, Rippling AI can pull metrics from Rippling and Salesforce into a meeting ready dashboard showing quota attainment, headcount plan, and monthly revenue to quota by region.

几秒钟内，你就能清楚看到配额风险背后的原因，并在错过目标之前及时补救。

In seconds, you'll see exactly what's behind your quota risk and fix it before it's missed.

问题解决了，行动跟上了，危机也避免了。

Question answered, action taken, crisis averted.

当你有关键的业务问题需要解答时，不要只是提交一个工单然后苦等几个星期才拿到过时的报告。

When you have critical business questions that need answers, don't just file a ticket and wait weeks for an outdated report.

把你需要的描述出来，让Rippling AI基于你实时的人员和业务数据立刻为你生成。

Describe what you need and have Rippling AI build it instantly from your live people and business data.

无论是带详细图表的仪表板，还是带有正确触发器、条件和审批的自动化工作流，它都能搞定。

Whether it's a dashboard with detailed charts or automated workflows with the right triggers, conditions, and approvals.

准备好掌控你的业务了吗？

Ready to rule your business?

前往 rippling.ai/fool，看看这款唯一能让你拥有全面视野、并在整个组织中执行复杂操作的AI。

Head to rippling.ai/fool to get the only AI built to give you full visibility and take complex actions across your entire organization.

网址是 rippling.ai/fool。

That's rippling.ai/fool.

今天就注册获取专属访问权限，rippling.ai/fool。

Sign up for exclusive access today, rippling.ai/fool.

Mastercard在做的事情，可以用很多种方式来描述。

There's so many ways to express what Mastercard is doing.

就一个问题，关于增值服务以及你们正在做的这部分工作。

Just one question on the value added value added services and this component of the work that you're doing.

我们应该把万事达卡看作是与各种公司更深入合作来推进这些系统，还是你们会继续收购，或者两者兼顾？

Should we think of Mastercard as becoming even partnering even more deeply with a variety of companies to bring these systems forward, or will you continue to be acquisitive, a balance between the two?

你们在深入新技术方面，比如代理电商、所有网络安全挑战，这个过程是怎样的？对。

What what's the what's the process of moving deeper and deeper into new technologies like agent e commerce, all the cybersecurity challenges Yeah.

稳定币等等？

Stablecoins, etcetera?

所以我们的做法是，你知道，十年前我们的业务非常专注于卡支付，非常专注于消费者卡支付。

So our our approach to this is, you know, when you take our business a decade ago, so very focused on card payments, very focused on consumer card payments.

今天，客户群包括消费者、企业和政府。

Today, it is consumers, is businesses, is government in terms of customer set.

业务更加全球化，而且正如我们讨论的，涵盖所有支付形式。

It's much more global, and it's all forms of payments as we discussed.

也包括稳定币。

It's also stablecoins.

还有账户对账户的支付，以及一系列增值服务。

It's also account to account, and it's a whole range of value added services.

我们刚才提到了网络安全这部分。

We talked about the cybersecurity part of that.

还有各种忠诚度解决方案、消费者互动方案、个性化方案，以及所有支持贸易的服务。

There's a range of loyalty solutions, consumer engagement solutions, personalization solution, anything that powers trade.

所以当你这么想的时候，我们的做法就是先自己建。

So when you think that, our approach to this is bio build.

这永远是第一个问题。

That's always the first question.

我们从来不会因为估值周期，现在什么都便宜，就出去乱买。

We never go out and say the valuation cycle, everything is cheap right now.

Let's go and buy something.

Let's go and buy something.

It's very strategy driven.

It's very strategy driven.

我们会说，好的。

We say, alright.

我们需要更多在个性化方面的能力。

We need more and capa capability on the personalization side.

所以，我们的客户，大型零售商，他们在这个时期想要做什么呢？他们想要在社交媒体等地方的各种杂乱和噪音中脱颖而出，在正确的时间通过正确的渠道把正确的优惠送给正确的客户。

So, our customers, large retailers, what are they trying to do in this time to cut through the clutter and the noise that exists in social media and everywhere to get the right offer to the right cuss to their right customer at the right time through the right channel.

我们在大规模地做这件事。

We do this at scale.

我们有很多消费者数据，包括行为数据，但我要说明，这些不是个人化的数据。

We have a lot of consumer data, consumer behavior data, not personalized, I should add.

于是我们收购了世界上最好的个性化公司之一。

So we bought one of the best personalization companies in the world.

为什么不自己开发而是收购呢？

Why did we buy versus build?

我们对个性化确实了解不多。

We just don't know much about personalization.

但他说，我们为什么不直接买下最好的合作伙伴呢？

But he said, why don't we buy the best partner?

但当我们收购这样的公司时，我们可以利用我们的数据集，我们庞大的数据集，以及我们的全球覆盖范围和网络，把他们的解决方案推广到我们的网络中，触达我们在世界各地的所有客户。

But when we buy a company like that, we can leverage our data set, our huge data set, and our global reach, and our network to take their solution and push it to our network to reach all those customers that we have around the world.

这就是巨大的协同效应。

That's dramatic synergy.

所以在这种场景下，并购和收购是非常有效的。

So m and a works, and acquisition works very well in such scenarios.

还有一些东西跟现有的支付解决方案非常接近。

There are other things that are very close to our existing payment solution.

这种情况下，我们最好自己开发，我们会继续积极进行收购。

We're much better off building them ourselves, we will continue to be very acquisitive.

同时，我们始终是很好的管理者。

At the same time, we're always very good stewards.

我们努力做好股东资本的守护者。

We try to be very good stewards of our shareholder capital.

那咱们来说说吧。

Let's say, alright.

其实我们自己来建这个更好。

We're actually better off building this ourselves.

你可能知道，也可能不知道，

Well, you may you may or

我们在Motley Fool建立了一个系统，给每家上市公司打分。

may not know that we've built a system at the Motley Fool where we score every public company.

我们有一个基于大语言模型的人工智能系统，程序员遍布全球，和我们的投资者一起评估公司的领导力、产品质量、竞争优势、业务估值和财务能力。

We have LLM based AI powered system with coders around the world working with our investors to evaluate companies across leadership, the quality of their products, their competitive advantages, the valuation of the business, the financial capabilities.

在美国被评分的4700家公司中，万事达卡排第14位。

Out of 4,700 companies scored in The US, Mastercard is number 14.

很好。

Very good.

是的。

Yeah.

你可能在想，为什么你

As you're probably wondering why you're

不告诉我，我们应该排进前十的公司。

not telling me, we should be in top 10 companies.

所以

So

我同意。

I agree.

前五的公司。

Top five company.

我，我，这总是有帮助的。

I I and that's always that helps.

订阅你的报告。

Subscribe to your report there.

我们会订阅的。

We will.

我们会发给你，不需要订阅。

We will send it to you without requiring a subscription.

哦，非常感谢。

Or Thank you very much.

但是资本配置，真的是这门生意的一大优势，比如说你有极高的投入资本回报率，所以有很多选择。

But but but capital allocation is such, I mean, such an amazing strength of the business, and you have a lot of options with the amazing rates of return on invested capital.

但我只是想知道，你是怎么做出这些决定的？比如就拿回购来说吧。

But I'm just wondering how you make the decisions about let's say let's take an example of buybacks.

我觉得你们这个季度又做了额外回购。

I think you did additional buybacks this quarter.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

当时确实有那么一个时刻。

There was a moment in time there.

我本来可以在这里帮投资者打包七个问题来问，但有一个时刻股价跌到了大概470美元左右。

I could pack seven questions together here for investors about this, but there was a moment in time where the stock fell to, you know, $470 or so or so.

现在是570美元。

Now it's $570.

所以这里有个引申问题，就是投资者应该怎么思考。

So there's a subordinate question to how people should think as investors.

你可能知道，散户投资者和很多专业投资者交易太频繁，他们没有意识到这个组织在长期时间内为你创造价值的能力有多强。

As you might know, retail investors and a lot of professional investors transact too frequently and don't realize the length of the the, you know, the capability of that organization to create value for you over long periods of time.

所以我很好奇，在一个季度里股票回购的流程是怎样的，你如何决定投入多少资金，以及当季的价格变动是否重要。

So I'm just curious how the share buyback process happens in a given quarter, how you determine how much to put against it, whether the movement of the price in that quarter matters.

所以关于我们的资本配置原则，我首先要说的是，第一件事永远是再投资于业务本身。

So the first thing that I would say when it comes to our capital allocation principles is always the first thing is reinvest in the business.

这是我们能做的最好的事情，无论是有机增长还是收购，我们刚刚谈过了。

So that is the best thing that that we would do, you know, organic, inorganic, we just talked about that.

首先是优先考虑有机增长。

Preference of, you know, start start with organic.

首先就是再投资到业务里去。

Reinvesting in the business, the first thing.

接下来是确保资产负债表稳健，因为我之前提到过，我们为每一笔万事达卡支付提供支付保障，那这就需要健康的资产负债表，等等等等。

Ensuring a strong balance sheet is the next thing because we we I mentioned a payment guarantee earlier that we have for every Mastercard payment, so that requires a healthy balance sheet, etcetera, etcetera.

说到回购，我们在这方面非常灵活。

When it comes to buybacks, so we're very opportunistic about that.

我们不是靠回购来经营业务的。

We're not in a business of buybacks.

只有在合理的时候我们才会这么做。

We do that when it makes sense.

所以呢，你知道，市场上AI交易风头正劲，我们作为一家大型高市值公司，变成了资金的来源。

So, you know, we had the the AI trade dominating the market, and we were a source of funds as a large, you know, high high cap company.

虽然我们有很多事要做，也在AI上投入很多，但我们不是AI交易或AI基础设施的公司。

And while we have a lot to do and invest a lot in AI, we're not the AI trade and AI infrastructure.

我们专注于应用型人工智能。

We're all about applied artificial intelligence.

所以我们成了资金的来源。

And so we were a source of funds.

所以股价比我预期的波动更大，但它确实做到了你刚才说的那样。

So the stock price was a little more volatile than I would have preferred, but it did exactly what you just described.

它从4.70美元涨到了5.70美元，我们又朝着正确的方向靠近了，这非常好。

It was at $4.70, now it's at $5.70, and we're getting closer in the right direction again, which is very good.

但我们抓住了机会。

But we were opportunistic.

我们说，好吧，你知道，我们相信公司会持续增长。

We said, okay, you know, this is we believe in the continued growth of the company.

我们很清楚自己在做什么。

We know exactly what we're doing.

我们有明确的战略。

We have have a clear strategy.

我们正在为长期推动运营杠杆，等等。

We're driving operating leverage for the long term, etcetera.

所以我们会进行一些股票回购。

So we're gonna do some buybacks.

这就是我们的做法。

So that's our approach.

你知道，这是我们面对这种情况时常用的一种工具，但我们不会超出这个逻辑来使用它。

You know, this is is always a tool that is in use for such times, but it's not one that we use beyond beyond that logic.

你可能也想到了，我还有很多问题，但为了尊重你的时间，因为我们说好的是四十分钟。

As you might imagine, I have more questions than this, but respecting your time because, you know, forty minutes was our target together.

我想再问一个关于就业的问题。

I wanna just ask one question about employment.

我觉得就业形势看起来相对强劲。

And I would say employment looks relatively strong.

薪资水平看起来也不错。

Wage wages look relatively strong.

但是，对。

But Right.

与此同时，埃隆·马斯克本周早些时候在接受采访时说，我们距离人工智能超越人类总智力还有五年时间。而且几乎我能想到的所有工作，用马斯克的话来说，都能由人工智能以更高效、更低成本的方式完成，这些技术的突破更是如此。

At the same time, have Elon Musk interviewed earlier this week saying, we are five years away from AI exceeding the sum total of the human intelligence, and virtually every job that I can see, paraphrasing Musk, is something that can be done, as effectively and less expensively by, by artificial intelligence and breakthroughs in these technologies.

那么作为CEO，你需要尽可能长远地思考问题，你正在模拟向前看多久？你是试图预见未来三年的时间吗？

So what what are you simulating forward, you know, three how far are you trying to see forward as the CEO of a company that requires that you're thinking as far forward as you can?

你对就业市场的动荡和工资通缩有什么看法？

And what what do you think about employment dislocations and wage deflation?

我……是的。

I'm I've Yeah.

你懂的？

You know?

最后一个问题的小部分。

Last last little portion portion of the question.

我的意思是，我们生活的这个时代真是奇妙，历史上现金流最充沛、资产负债表最强劲的大型科技公司竟然都在裁员。

I mean, what a time we live in that the largest technology companies with the highest levels of cash flows and the strongest balance sheets in human history are actually thinning their staff.

我们看到工作流程在变化，就连那些最繁荣的公司，员工人数也在发生变化。

You know, we're seeing the the the workflows change, and we're seeing employment levels change even at the the most prosperous companies.

那这说明了什么呢？

So what is this indicating?

这对消费者支出会有什么影响？

What will it mean for consumer spending?

你是怎么看待这个问题的？对。

How do you think about it with Right.

在万事达卡的背景下。

Within the context of Mastercard?

汤姆，这是个非常重要的话题，很高兴你提出来。

Very important topic, Tom, and I'm glad you're raising it.

所以很明显，当你考虑人工智能及其潜力时，我认为应该抱着一种探索的心态来看待这项技术。

So clearly, when when you think about artificial intelligence and what it could do, I think it's good to have a mindset that this is technology that needs to be explored.

如果以正确的方式部署，它可能会推动繁荣和增长。

If it it deployed in the right way, it could drive a path prosperity and growth.

这基本上就是我的想法，也是我们大家的想法。

So that's all generally the direction that I think and that we think as well.

但它也有负面的一面。

It has downsides.

我们谈到了AI带来的风险，尤其是网络风险。

We talked about AI driven risk, cyber risk in particular.

所以任何事情都有两面性，有好处也有坏处。

So there's always, with everything, up and down up and downsides.

随着技术不断演进，我们必须要做的一件事，尤其是在我们这个行业，当然其他大多数行业也一样，就是人才是最关键的，所以我们必须提升我们人才的水平。

So as technology key is evolving, one thing we have to do, you know, because clearly in our in certainly in our industry, but most other industries comes down to having the best talent, we have to upscale our talent.

所以我们有很大的精力放在让AI工具可用，并且确保我们能升级公司里的工作岗位，让员工利用AI把工作做得更好，去做那些机器做不到的事情。

So there's significant focus on, you know, making AI tools available and ensuring that we can upgrade the jobs in the company for people who leverage AI to do an even better job and do the things that machines cannot do.

以人为本的AI应用就是我们要推动的方向，也就是说，好，没问题。

Human centered AI application is the focus that we're driving and saying, okay.

用这个工具把工作做得更好，别再去干那些重复性的事情。

Use this tool to do a better job and don't do the redundant stuff stuff.

我刚刚给自己打造了一个专门处理邮件的AI助手。

I've just created myself an AI assistant for emails.

所以，你知道，我就不用再处理那些了。

So, you know, so I don't have to deal with that any longer.

那太好了。

That's great.

我还是会看一眼，但它确实帮我省去了那些琐碎的工作。

I I still take a look at it, but it does take some of the kind of menial tasks away from that.

所以我觉得我们需要非常谨慎地对待这件事。

So I think we need to be very thoughtful about that.

目前，我看到我们的客户在那些方面的状况，很多客户想和我们讨论代理商务、稳定币，以及我们思考的所有话题，我们用了很多AI来准备这些对话，因为关于那些客户有很多公开数据。

Currently, when I see where where our customers are on that so the number of customers that wanna talk to us about agentic commerce, stablecoins, all the topics that we that we think about, we use a lot of AI to prepare for those conversations because there's a lot public data that's out there about those customers.

关于可用的技术也有很多信息。

There's a lot out there about the technologies available.

我们把它们整合起来，节省了很多时间，从而能和客户就真正重要的话题进行更多互动。

We bring it together, and we save ourselves a lot of time to have more engagement with our customers on the topics that actually matter.

人工智能和网络安全，每年有1800亿笔交易。

Artificial intelligence and cybersecurity, 180,000,000,000 transactions a year.

我们如何利用生成式AI和威胁情报数据来保障它们的安全？

How do we keep them safe leveraging Gen AI and threat intelligence data?

这完全是技术问题。

It's all about technology.

而且万事达卡一直都是以技术为核心的。

And that was always about technology and Mastercard.

这跟人没关系，因为我们实际上一直是一家网络公司，人员很精简。你想，按我们的市值来看，我们只有四万名员工，分布在220个国家和地区。

So that's not about people, because we've always been a network company, actually, with a very light you know, if you think about our market cap, and then we think we're only 40,000 people across 220 countries and territories.

所以，是的，我们的行业并不是那种需要从根本上重新思考的行业。

So, yeah, our industry is not the one way you would start to think, you know, fundamentally rethinking that.

你知道，想想我们的一些服务，在AI的世界里，谁会赢，谁会面临挑战？

You know, if you think about some of our services, who will win and who will have a challenge in the world of AI?

能够脱颖而出的公司，是那些能够使用各种不同模型，但拥有专有数据来喂养模型，从而推动业务发展的公司。

The companies that sell set themselves apart are the ones that can use all types of different models, but have proprietary data that they can feed the model with and then drive their business forward.

我们是拥有最独特数据集的公司之一，那就是交易数据。

We're one of the companies that have the most unique datasets, transactional data.

所以这些都是我认为能让我们长久发展、让我们有资格参与竞争的因素，我们会在此基础上继续推进。

So those are all things that I think give us longevity and give us right to a license to play, and we're gonna push forward on that basis.

如果你们今天有机会听我们的财报电话会议，我在会上说的就是，我要感谢我们的员工，是他们推动了这些数字和成果，为我们的客户和我们自己。

And if you had the chance or will have the chance to listen to our earnings call today, the thing I said on our earnings call today is I thank our employees for driving all those numbers and that output for us and our customers.

最后一个问题。

Last question.

经营一家市值五千亿美元的公司，面对这么多变化——当然，每家公司都在经历巨大的变化——但我觉得，过去二三十年我认识星巴克的管理层，他们每天做的事情有很多连续性。

Running a company with a market cap of $500,000,000,000 with with as much change, this isn't well, every business is going through so much change, but I would say having gotten to know leadership at Starbucks over the last twenty five or thirty years, there's a lot of continuity of what they're doing every day.

他们知道自己要推出什么产品。

They know what product they're putting out.

从收购到技术选择，再到员工队伍等等，需要做的决策没有那么多。

There's not as much as many different decisions to be made on acquisitions all the way through to the technologies you're choosing, your workforce, etcetera.

你个人健康方面是怎么做的，怎么让自己和你的领导团队保持状态？

What is your approach to personal health to sustaining yourself through and and your leadership team?

因为很明显，万事达卡的高层十五个人，某种程度上必须全天候与业务保持联系。

Because obviously, the top 15 people at Mastercard are are connected into the business twenty four seven, in some ways have to be.

那你平时是怎么让自己放松下来，保持这种高效输出的呢？

So what what is your approach to unplugging, to, sustaining this level of output?

很明显，我们很高兴，也希望你能继续当二十五年的CEO。

Obviously, we're very happy and hope you'll be CEO for the next twenty five years.

那你打算怎么做呢？

So how are you gonna do that?

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这个问题很重要，首先得认识到这个点有多关键。

So I think it's a really important point, and the first is to recognize how important that point actually is.

在我们的领导团队里，确实是七乘二十四小时连轴转。

So across our leadership team, yes, it is twenty four seven.

但并不是每个人每时每刻都这样。

At the same time, it's not twenty four seven for everybody all the time.

我们的领导团队是全球化的，这其实是件好事。

So we're a global leadership team, and that's a good thing.

所以新加坡那边有人醒着，他们就能做他们那部分工作。

So somebody's awake over in Singapore, and then they can do their part.

所以我们以某种平衡的方式来管理。

And so we manage in a in a somewhat balanced fashion around that.

分工合作非常明确。

Divide and conquer is very clear.

这是一个强大的团队，而且，你知道，这在万事达卡的更广泛群体中也是如此。

This is a strong team, and this is, you know, this is true for the broader population at Mastercard.

我必须说，我个人很重视假期。

I have to say, I personally value vacation.

我认为这非常重要。

I think it's a really important thing.

我和团队里一个直接向我汇报的人聊天，我说，嘿。

I was having a conversation with somebody works directly in my team, and I said, hey.

你知道，你夏天有什么计划？

You know, what are you planning for the summer?

他说，是的。

He said, yeah.

我可能会休几天假。

I might take a few days off.

然后我说，你知道吗，你应该考虑休两周假。

And I said, you know, you should consider maybe, like, taking two weeks off.

这可能是因为我在欧洲长大。

So maybe this is growing up in Europe.

我不知道为什么，但我觉得这很重要。

I don't know what it is, but I find that as important.

你明白吗？

You know?

但你也得找些其他时间，让自己能想想别的事情。

But then you have to find these other moments where you just can just think about something different.

所以我在公司之外参与了一些非营利活动。

So I'm involved in a set of activities outside of the companies on the nonprofit side.

我就是觉得这很重要，能让我分分心。

I just find that's important, takes my mind off.

这是一种能量的来源。

It's a source of energy.

然后，当然，你知道，作为一个典型的德国人，就是很多散步，很多聊天。

And then, of course, you know, you know, being a good German, a lot of walking and a lot of talking.

所以和我妻子在一起，就是做这些事。

So with my wife, these are things like that.

而且我在开始之前就跟你说过，我确实喜欢骑摩托车和滑雪，这两项活动能让你完全集中注意力。

And I mentioned it to you at the outset before we started, I do like motorcycling and skiing, those two activities that focus your mind completely.

一天下来，身体很累，那天也就不会想太多别的事情。

And at the end of the day, you're physically very tired, and you don't think about anything else much on that day.

所以每个人有不同的方式，不同的方法。

So different ways, different kind of approaches for everybody.

有一件事我挺遗憾的，就是我没能像应该的那样多读书，我读的更多是摘要和简报，不过最近几个长周末，我确实又拿起书来读，我觉得那真是个不错的主意。

One thing I regret, which is I don't read as much as I probably should, I read much more summaries and newsletters, and I have taken in the last couple of kind of long weekends that that came around to actually grab a book again, and I I find that is a that was a really good idea.

所以我会尽量多做这些。

So I'll try to do more of that.

我也是。

Same.

我觉得这是个承诺，我们也要互相督促。

I need that's a commitment we'll hold each other accountable too.

算了吧。

Screw that.

迈克尔，非常感谢你抽出时间。

Michael, thank you so much for this time.

我们开始投资万事达卡是在2013年左右，当时股价低于50美元。

We we began investing in Mastercard more than maybe maybe it was around 2,013 with a stock below 50.

我们拥有的，我想想，超过30只。

We have more than, I think, 30 rum.

超过30项投资，但真正的投资组合超过25个。

More than 30 invest but more than 25 investments.

是的，我们表现不错，我们非常感激。

And, yes, we've had a good run, and we're and we're very thankful.

我们当然很喜欢阿贾伊·班加的工作。

We we loved the work of Ajay Banga, obviously.

对。

And Right.

我的意思是，我们甚至没谈到你在疫情期间的继任问题。

I mean, what we didn't even talk about your succession in the middle of COVID.

那个，那个，对。

That that that Yeah.

那真是令人着迷。

That was fascinating.

那肯定是你将来写的某本书里精彩的一章。

That's gotta be a good chapter of at least one book that you write at some point.

对。

Right.

但我不想再占用你的时间了。

But I don't wanna take any more of your time.

非常感谢你，尤其是在财报日，能抽出时间来到Motley Fool。

Thank you so much, particularly on earnings day, for giving us time at the Motley Fool.

祝你和你团队的所有人都一切顺利，下次度假愉快。

We wish you the very best and everyone on your team, and have a great next vacation.

谢谢，汤姆，也谢谢你邀请我上节目。

Thanks, Tom, and thank you for having me on.

一如既往，节目中的嘉宾可能对他们谈论的股票有兴趣，而Motley Fool可能有正式的推荐或反对意见。

As always, people on the program may have interests in the stocks they talk about, and The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against.

所以不要仅仅根据你听到的内容来买卖股票。

So don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear.

所有个人理财内容都遵循Motley Fool的编辑标准，并未经广告商批准。

All personal finance content follows Motley Fool editorial standards and is not approved by advertisers.

广告是赞助内容，仅供参考。

Advertisements are sponsored content and provided for informational purposes only.