294. 塞洛妮娅·里德的真实遭遇

这种事绝不可能发生。

Like it's just not happening.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，要相信任何事都需要征得同意。

I mean, believe in consent for everything.

但感觉我不该掺和这事。

But It's kinda like I shouldn't get into this.

就像你在婚礼视频里看到的那样，新郎往新娘脸上砸蛋糕时有点过火。

It's kinda like the wedding videos you see where the guy starts going a little too hard at throwing cake at his new wife.

你就会觉得，哇，老兄。

You're like, woah, dude.

你得冷静一点。

You need to calm down a little bit.

总之，跑题了。

Anyways, off topic.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我们言归正传。

We'll get back into it.

不过我想说的是这个。

Well, this is what I'm saying though.

任何形式的肢体接触都应该经过同意。

Like, physical action of any kind should have consent.

我跟加勒特说过，嘿，提前说好，你不能把蛋糕糊我脸上，因为我不同意。

I told Garrett, hey, just so you know, like, you're not smashing cake in my face because I don't consent to that.

我不想要那样。

Like, I don't want that.

我一点都不想。

I want none of it.

然后他说，是啊，我也不想。

And he was like, yeah, me either.

所以我们决定不那样做。

So we decided not to do that.

我也这么想。

I think the same To

人各有志。

each their own.

为了水。

For water.

不。

No.

是的。

Yeah.

各有所好。

To each their own.

我只是说，有人未经允许就翻别人的管子。

I'm just saying for someone to come flip someone's tube without them asking.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

那真的不

That's not really

这样不行。

It's not okay.

不行。

No.

那真的不行。

That's not really okay.

而且大家都知道她不会游泳。

And everyone knows that she can't swim.

所以她觉得，这是故意的。

So she she's like, this is deliberate.

那简直太粗暴了。

Like, that was aggressive.

你知道我不会游泳的。

Like, you know I can't swim.

是啊。

Yeah.

于是她挣扎着游回岸边，而吉米根本没有伸手帮加伦德。

So she struggles to swim back to the banks without Jimmy offering Galend a hand.

他把她掀翻后，看着她挣扎却无动于衷。

Like, he flips her, sees her struggling, doesn't do anything.

真奇怪。

That's weird.

第二天事情变得更诡异了——塞洛妮娅看见吉米·雷·巴恩斯在她家附近徘徊。

And then the following day, things get even weirder when Celonia saw Jimmy Ray Barnes lurking outside near her home.

当时塞洛妮娅家里正好有亲戚来访，她歇斯底里地警告他们别出去。

Celonia actually had a relative over at the time and began going into hysterics telling them, don't go outside.

别开门。

Don't open the door.

我讨厌那个人。

I don't like that guy.

他昨天刚掀翻了我的泳圈。

He just flipped my tube yesterday.

这时吉米走近房子，说只是来看看她情况如何。

And then Jimmy comes closer to the house and said he was just there to check on her.

于是那位亲戚就说：吉米，立刻离开我家院子。

So the relative is like, Jimmy, off the property now.

她感到不自在。

She's not comfortable.

你都没去关心她。

You're not checking on her.

就是说，离开。

Like, leave.

但这并非警方掌握的唯一线索。

But this isn't the only connection police learn of.

显然，谋杀案发生两天后，有目击者站出来表示，在塞洛尼亚遇害当晚，他们确实看到加油站附近有两名男子。

Apparently, two days after the murder, a witness came forward to say they actually saw two men around the gas station the night of Celonia's death.

他们行为有些可疑，所以目击者记下了车牌号。

They were acting a little suspicious, so the witness wrote down the license plate number.

不会吧。

No way.

这简直太酷了。

That is something that's so cool.

我就喜欢人们这样做

I love when people do To be

比如，他们行为怪异。

like, they're acting weird.

以防万一，我就记下车牌号吧。

I'm just gonna take the license plate in case.

然后塞洛尼亚就被发现死在加油站里

And then Celonia turns up dead in the in the gas station

停车场里。这概率有多大？

parking What are the chances?

太疯狂了。

That's so crazy.

猜猜看。

And take a guess.

你觉得他们记下的这个车牌号是谁的？

Who do you think this license plate belongs to that they took down?

吉米吉米吉米。

JimmyJimmyJimmy.

不是。

No.

哦。

Oh.

老雷吉，她丈夫。

Reggie senior, her husband.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

我是说，经过商场那档子谎话连篇的事，百分百是他。

I mean, after the whole mall lying thing, was a 100 yeah.

所以警方就想，嘿，这个记下车牌的目击者恰好是雷吉家的，咱们弄张吉米·雷的照片看看是不是另一个家伙。没错。

So police are like, hey, this witness who took down the license plate that happens to be Reggie's, let's get a photo of Jimmy Ray to see if this is the other guy Yep.

就是加油站监控里和他一起出现的人，后来他妻子就在那儿被谋杀了。

That was seen with him at the gas station where his wife later turned up murdered.

然后他们确认说，对。

And they're like, yep.

目击者指认就是这两个人。

Witness says those are the two guys.

好吧。

Okay.

现在很明显，大量证据表明老雷吉和他朋友吉米·雷都与塞洛妮娅谋杀案有关联。

Now, obviously, there is a lot of evidence suggesting both Reggie senior and Jimmy Ray, his friend, were somehow connected to Celonia's murder.

问题在于这有些间接。

The problem is it's kinda circumstantial.

比如，确实有目击证人。

Like, yes, you have eyewitnesses.

保安说丈夫当时不在场。

You have the security guard who says, no, husband wasn't here.

加油站确实记下了车牌号，这算是实质性证据。

You have the gas station who did take down the license plate number, which is pretty physical.

但她还在指认那两名男子。

But she's also identifying the two men.

这不像是有监控拍到的。

That's not like they were caught on camera.

是啊。

Yeah.

还有个朋友作证说丈夫让他谎称和自己在一起。

And then you have the friend who was like, yeah, he told me to say I was with her.

整件事都有点蹊跷。

It's all a little bit odd.

我只是不知道还需要多少证据。

I just don't know how much more evidence you need.

没错。

Right.

故事很多，证据却不多。

A lot of stories, not a ton of evidence.

但也别忘了这是1987年。

But also remember, it is 1987.

唯一的问题是老雷吉最终有不在场证明。

And the only thing is Reggie senior ultimately has an alibi.

如果你还记得，他六岁的儿子说，我们一起打电子游戏直到睡觉，然后同床共枕到天亮。

If you remember, his six year old son says, we played video games until bed and we slept on the same bed until morning.

没有人离开。

No one left.

最终，并没有确凿的证据，因为你也持有同样的说法。

Now, ultimately, there was no real smoking gun because you also have it.

这是目击者之间的对峙，这就是为什么多年来他们没有逮捕老雷吉或吉米，事情开始逐渐平息。

It's eyewitness against eyewitness, which is why over the years, they don't arrest Reggie senior or Jimmy and things start to slow down.

即使在里德家，塞洛尼亚的死亡也开始变成一段遥远的记忆。

Even at the Reed home, Celonia's death starts to become a little bit of a distant memory.

小雷吉说他父亲从未真正和他谈论过母亲的事。

Reggie junior says his dad never really talked about his mom with him.

这始终是个避而不谈的话题。

It was always just an elephant in the room.

直到雷吉十几岁时，自己去图书馆开始调查母亲被谋杀的案件，他才了解到母亲遇害的细节。

And it wasn't until Reggie was a teenager, and he went to the library on his own to begin searching his mother's murder that he learned the details of his mother's murder.

他真的不知道。

He he really didn't know.

他也不知道她是如何被杀害的。

And he didn't know how she had been killed.

似乎雷吉这些年来听到过关于父亲是嫌疑人的传言，但这对他来说显然不合逻辑，因为他相信父亲当时和他在一起。

It seems Reggie had heard whispers over the years that his dad was a suspect, but that never really made sense to him, obviously, because he believed his dad was home with him.

当17岁的小雷吉支持正在竞选镇长的父亲时，这种说法就更不可信了。

And it became even less believable when Reggie Junior, 17 years old, supported his dad who was now running for mayor of the town.

等等。

Wait.

所以我们基本上跳过了十年。

So we just skipped basically ten years.

嗯。

Mhmm.

还没有人被逮捕。

No one's been arrested.

他曾是主要嫌疑人。

He was the prime suspect.

介意

Mind

令人震惊的是他们无法从中得出结论，我猜他们只是害怕如果陪审团没判他有罪，就会输掉。

blowing that they couldn't from that, I guess they just were scared that if a jury didn't find him guilty, then lose.

你放他走了。

You let him go.

是啊。

Yeah.

哦，天哪。

Oh, man.

太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

所以小雷吉声称在这段时间里，他父亲竞选市长时，从未提及他父亲与他母亲案件的关联。

So Reggie Junior claims that during this time, his dad running for mayor, there was no mention of his dad's involvement in his mom's case.

在政治世界里，他说，所有丑事都会被抖出来。

And in the world of politics, he's like, all of the skeletons are pulled out of the closet.

所以如果这不算大事，那么在竞选期间从未提及这一事实，确实让小雷吉在调查案件后产生的所有疑虑都烟消云散了。

So if this wasn't a big deal, the fact it was never mentioned during this campaign really puts any of Reggie Junior's doubts he had once researching the case to rest.

他说，我父亲是个正直的人，一个积极为社区谋福利的人。

He's like, my dad's a stand up man, someone who actively works to benefit the community.

虽然老雷吉没有赢得选举，但这一家人的生活还在继续。

Now Reggie senior didn't win the election, but life goes on for the family.

雷吉继续攻读他的MBA学位。

Reggie junior goes on to get his MBA.

他彻底搬离了哈蒙德，并在制药公司找到了一份工作。

He moved out of Hammond altogether and got a job working for a pharmaceutical company.

与此同时，雷吉与塞洛尼亚之间有一段不为人知的往事，而小雷吉对此毫不知情。

And meanwhile, there was this entire secret history between Reggie senior and Celonia that Reggie junior never was really aware of.

根据塞洛尼亚的妹妹格温所述，在塞洛尼亚被发现谋杀前，他们的婚姻已经历了许多阴暗的日子。

So according to Celonia's sister, Gwen, there had been a lot of dark days in the marriage before Celonia was found murdered.

两人不仅曾谈及离婚，塞洛尼亚还告诉格温，她的丈夫曾多次对她实施肢体暴力。

Not only was there talk of divorce between the two, but Celonia had told Gwen that her husband had been physically abusive towards her on more than one occasion.

好的。

Okay.

如果你还记得，老雷吉确实向警方承认他们的婚姻关系紧张。

Now if you remember, Reggie senior does tell the cops that they were in a rocky state in their marriage.

是的。

Yeah.

但格温向我们透露了更多细节，这些连塞洛尼亚的儿子小雷吉都从未知晓。

But Gwen is giving us a little bit more details that Celonia's son, Reggie Junior, never even knew about.

当塞洛尼亚还在医院工作时，老雷吉会在每个发薪日出现，要求塞洛尼亚把工资交给他。

When Celonia was still working at the hospital, Reggie Senior would show up each payday and demand that Celonia hand him her paycheck.

有时塞洛尼亚会戴着墨镜去医院上班，因为她的眼睛被打青了，所以不敢摘下来。

Sometimes Celonia would show up to work at the hospital with sunglasses on, not taking him off because she had black eyes.

而且当时塞洛尼亚也没有车。

And at the time, Celonia also didn't have a car.

所以她的丈夫雷吉每天接送她上下班，有时让她下班后苦等数小时。

So Reggie, her husband, was picking her up from work each day, Sometimes making her wait hours after her shift had ended.

他只会在自己方便的时候出现。

He would just show up when it was convenient for him.

当塞洛尼亚的同事提出要载她一程时，她总是拒绝，因为她说如果我搭别人的车回家，我丈夫会生气。

And when Celonia's coworkers offered to give her a ride, she would refuse because she said, it makes my husband angry if I go home with, like, if I get a ride.

他希望成为那个接我回家的人。

He wants to be the one to take me home.

好。

K.

还有一次，在塞洛尼亚刚生下小雷吉后，雷吉的姐姐克劳黛特来访。

Another time, Reggie senior sister Claudette was over right after Celonia gave birth to Reggie junior.

她说塞洛尼亚刚生完孩子就拼命锻炼，想减掉孕期增加的体重。

And she said Celonia was working out hard right after giving birth because she wanted to lose the baby weight.

于是她的嫂子克劳黛特就坐在客厅里，看着塞洛尼亚做仰卧起坐。

And so Claudette, her sister-in-law, is like sitting here watching Celonia do sit ups in the living room.

就在这时，老雷吉走进来，一脚踩在塞洛尼亚的肚子上，说他只是想帮她为男朋友减肥。

And that's when Reggie senior comes in and stomps on Celonia's stomach saying, he's just trying to help her lose weight for her boyfriend.

好吧。

Okay.

这是怎么回事？

What is happening?

克劳黛特目睹了这一切。

And Claudette, like, sees all of this.

据克劳黛特说，他甚至窃听了家里的电话线路，录下塞洛尼亚与别人的所有对话，以便回听她打的每一通电话。

According to Claudette, he even had tapped the phone lines of his home and recorded every conversation Celonia was having with people so that he could listen back to every phone call she was making.

还总是无端指责她有男朋友，尽管没有任何证据。

And always like accusing her of having a boyfriend even though there was no evidence of it.

天啊，老兄。

Gosh, dude.

这到底怎么了？

What is wrong?

所以，你既有她家的成员，也有他家的成员，他们都亲眼目睹了虐待行为。

So you have members from her family and members from his family who firsthand witnessed abuse.

这是一个相当明显的迹象，表明这是家庭暴力。

It's a pretty clear sign that this was domestically abusive.

他们的关系本就不健康，但事情还不止于此。

Their their relationship was not healthy, but there was more to it than that.

老雷吉还在搞一些保险诈骗，而塞洛尼亚似乎知情。

Reggie senior was also pulling off some insurance scams that Celonia was seemingly aware of.

显然，在她分娩前后不久，老雷吉开始把一堆箱子从他们家搬到他母亲的车库里。

Apparently, sometime shortly before or after she gave birth, Reggie senior started moving a bunch of boxes out of their house and into his mother's garage.

然后他让塞洛尼亚去他母亲家住几天。

And then he sent Celonia over to stay at his mother's house for a few days.

她似乎没有提出任何疑问。

She didn't seem to ask any questions.

但在那里时，她得知他们的房子发生了火灾。

But while she was there, she learned that there had been a fire at their house.

后来她得知，她的丈夫雷吉实际上在火灾前一周提高了他们的房屋保险保额。

She learned later that Reggie, her husband, had actually increased the policy on their homeowner's insurance just a week before this sudden mysterious house fire.

不过，小雷吉似乎对很多事都不知情。

It seems a lot of this got past Reggie Junior though.

他只是个孩子。

He's just a kid.

他还小。

He's young.

你知道的，他只是个小男孩。

You know, he's just a little boy.

显然，塞洛尼亚已经足够清醒地意识到：我相当确定我丈夫放火烧了我们的房子来骗保。

Obviously, Celonia was aware enough to be like, I'm pretty sure our my husband just burned our house down to collect money.

雷吉·朱尼尔确实知道他父亲很严厉，但他说自己成长过程中从未遭受过任何形式的身体虐待。

Reggie junior did know that his father was strict, but he said he never experienced any sort of physical abuse growing up.

尽管如此，塞洛尼亚的家人心知肚明，他们从未真正放弃对老雷吉很可能杀害她的怀疑。

Still, Celonia's family was aware and they never really gave up their suspicions that Reggie senior most likely killed her.

因此这些年来他们不断向警方施压要求重查此案。

So they kept pressuring the police to reopen the case over the years.

最终在2011年，即二十四年后，路易斯安那州警局的一位新侦探接手此案。

And finally, in 2011, twenty four years later, a new detective with the Louisiana State Police gets involved.

这位巴里·沃德中尉认为，这可能是赶在目击者陆续离世前追查此案的最后机会。

His name is lieutenant Barry Ward, and he feels this is probably the last chance to go after this case before eyewitnesses start to pass away.

于是他和团队调取了八十年代末哈蒙德警方收集的所有证据和档案。

So he and his team go in and collect all of the evidence and files that Hammond Police Department gathered back in the late eighties.

他们甚至追访了所有参与过此案的退休警员，开始重新询问案情。

They even tracked down all of the retired police officers who had worked the case, and they began asking them questions.

虽然发现十字架和邻居邮箱里的螺丝刀等大量证据在案件中毫无进展，但有个细节格外显眼——老雷吉在妻子死前购买的多份人寿保险。

And while they find that a lot of the evidence, like the crucifix and the screwdriver that was found in the neighbor's mailbox had gone nowhere in the case, there was one detail that stuck out like a sore thumb, And that is the many life insurance policies Reggie senior had gotten before his wife died.

如今我们都知道，这在配偶谋杀案中是非常强烈的动机。

Now as we know now, this is a very big motive between spousal murder.

调查显示老雷吉在State Farm购买了两份保单，在另一家公司买了三份。

Turns out Reggie senior had taken out two policies with State Farm and three with Oh my another company.

其中三份保单是在塞洛尼亚遇害前三周内购买的，总保额高达42.1万美元。

And three of those policies were taken out less than three weeks before Celonia's murder, which totaled $421,000.

而老雷吉自然是每份保单的指定受益人。

And Reggie senior was, of course, the beneficiary on each of those policies.

更耐人寻味的是，雷吉·朱尼尔从未拿到过这些保险金的分毫。

And what's even more interesting is Reggie junior never saw a dime of this insurance money.

他是靠学生贷款完成大学学业的。

He put himself through college using student loans.

与此同时，克劳黛特说，记住这个人是目击者。

Meanwhile, Claudette said, remember this is the one who witnessed Yeah.

那些身体虐待。

The physical abuse.

她记得谋杀案发生两年前，她哥哥曾带她和塞洛尼亚去看过一场电影。

She remembered her brother taking her and Celonia to a movie two years before the murder.

那部电影叫《血网边缘》。

And this movie was called Jagged Edge.

剧情基本上就是一个男人为保险金谋杀了自己的妻子。

It's basically where a man murders his wife for insurance money.

法黛特认为她哥哥就是从这里得到的灵感。

Fawdette thinks she thinks this is where her brother got the idea Okay.

萌生了杀害妻子的念头。

To murder his wife in the first place.

克劳黛特还说塞洛尼亚死后，老雷吉怂恿她给自己丈夫加保保险。

Claudette also said that after Celonia died, Reggie senior encouraged her to increase her own husband's insurance policy.

当她拒绝时，他还是找人替她起草了相关文件。

And when she refused, he got someone to draft up the paperwork for her anyways.

什么？

What?

这时候你可能会想，他是不是要杀了迈克？

Which then you're probably like, is he gonna kill Mike?

是啊。

Yeah.

太疯狂了。

That's insane.

现在，小雷吉声称虽然他早知道父亲在母亲死后得到了一些钱，但他完全不知道竟然是多份保单，价值数十万美元。

So now, Reggie Junior claims that while he knew his father had come across some money after his mother's death, he had no idea that it had been like multiple policies, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

就他而言，他父亲仍然与他母亲的谋杀案毫无关系。

As far as he was concerned, his father still had nothing to do with his mother's murder.

即便在2012年，案件重启调查一年后，当警察敲开如今31岁的雷吉的家门时，他才首次正式确认父亲确实是母亲谋杀案的主要嫌疑人。

Even in 2012, a year after the investigation had been reopened and police came knocking on the now 31 year old Reggie's door, Reggie got his first official confirmation that his dad really was the primary suspect in his mother's murder.

所以你可以想象，小雷吉对此感到震惊。

So as you can imagine, Reggie junior is shocked by this.

他说，我母亲已经去世几十年了。

He's like, my mother's been dead for decades.

为什么现在才来敲我的门指控我父亲？

Why are you knocking on my door now blaming my dad?

他质问警察。

He asked the police.

他问道，是有新证据了吗？

He's like, is there new evidence?

就在这时，警察向他展示了所有关于保险单的文件。

And that's when the police show him all the files on the insurance policy.

文件显示他父亲在母亲死亡前不久购买了这些保单。

How his dad took them out so close to the time of his mother's death.

以及当初这些线索是如何被忽视的。

How this was all overlooked the first time around.

警方还告诉雷吉，他们正将部分旧证据——尤其是塞洛尼亚车内发现的那个烟头（这算是铁证）——送往DNA实验室用新技术进行检测。

They also tell Reggie they are sending some of the old evidence, particularly that cigarette butt that was found inside Celonia's car, that's like pretty hard evidence, off to the DNA labs to now be tested with new technology.

但眼下，这些信息对小雷吉来说冲击太大。

But in the meantime, this is a lot for Reggie Junior to process.

他不断思索：这个我深爱的男人，这个抚养我、支持我的父亲，怎么可能是六岁时杀害我母亲的凶手？

He's thinking, how can this man that I love, that my father who raised me, supported me, be the person who killed my mother when I was six years old?

案发时他明明和我一起在家。

He was home with me when this happened.

他就说，不行。

He's like, no.

就像警察，你不明白。

Like cops, you don't understand.

他当时和我一起在家。

He was home with me.

于是他决定用这个信息去质问他父亲。

So he decides to confront his dad with this information.

他说，嘿，老爸。

He's like, hey, dad.

好的。

Okay.

他们来了。

They came.

这就是他们告诉我的。

This is what they've told me.

他们绝对又在调查你了。

They are like definitely looking into you again.

老雷吉说，那不算证据，儿子。

And Reggie senior says, that's not evidence, son.

我给每个人都买了保险。

I took insurance policies out on everyone.

但你要记得，小雷吉长大后变得相当聪明。

But if you remember, Reggie junior grew up to be pretty smart.

于是他开始自己调查，试图获取他母亲案件的档案、证人证词、法医报告、调查笔记，任何能帮助他得出自己结论的资料。

So he starts doing his own investigation, trying to get access to his mother's case files, witness statements, forensic reports, investigative notes, anything that could help him really come to his own conclusion.

随着时间的推移，他对自己多年前深信不疑的认知——那时他真心相信父亲整晚都和他在一起——开始动摇

And in due time, his perception of what he believed up into all those years ago when he truly truly believed his dad had been with him all night

变了。

Changed.

开始瓦解。

Starts to unravel.

尤其是当警方真的从那支香烟上提取到DNA时。

Especially when police actually do get a read off that cigarette.

他们将新结果输入国家犯罪数据库CODIS，结果匹配上了。

They run those new results through the National Crime Database, CODIS, and they get a hit.

是巴恩斯家的人，但不是吉米·雷·巴恩斯。

It is a Barnes, but it is not Jimmy Ray Barnes.

所以不是大家说的那个人——'哦，我们担心的是这个人帮了忙'——实际上匹配到的是他兄弟比利·雷·巴恩斯。

So not the guy that everyone had said, oh, this is who we're worried helped It do actually appears to be a match to Billy Ray Barnes, his brother.

然而他们是同卵双胞胎。

However, they are identical twins.

同卵双胞胎的DNA几乎完全相同。

Identical twins have nearly identical DNA.

所以他们推测能匹配上可能是因为比利在系统里而吉米不在。

So they're thinking this was probably a match because Billy is in the system and Jimmy isn't.

太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

CODIS可能因为相似度太高而匹配到比利。

Like, CODIS probably brought Billy up because it's so close.

没错。

Correct.

你知道他们总说'有1%的可能性'——这就是真实发生的例子。

You know how they always are like, it's a 1% Well, this is the actual example of that happening.

吉米不在系统里。

Jimmy isn't in the system.

但有趣的是。

But here's what's interesting.

在最初的调查期间，吉米接受了测谎并顺利通过。

Back during the initial investigation, Jimmy was polygraphed and he passed.

但现在沃德中尉有了个理论。

But now Lieutenant Ward has a theory.

可能是比利替吉米做了测谎。

Maybe Billy had taken the polygraph for Jimmy.

好吧。

Okay.

也许他让他兄弟去做了测试。

Maybe he sent his brother in to take it.

如果这是真的那就太疯狂了。

That would be why this gonna be crazy if it's true.

所以他觉得无所谓。

So he's like, whatever.

我要对吉米、比利和老雷吉采取强硬手段。

I'm cracking down on Jimmy, Billy, and Reggie senior.

我们这次一定要查明真相。

We are finding the truth once and for all.

当他们找到吉米时，他现在住在乔治亚州亚特兰大。

And when they find Jimmy, he's living in Atlanta, Georgia now.

他住在老板地盘的房车里。

He's in a camper on his boss's property.

沃德审问他时，他说：我多年前逃离路易斯安那是因为害怕老雷吉。

When Ward questions him, he says, I fled Louisiana years ago because I was terrified of Reggie senior.

所以他现在开始出卖朋友了。

So now he's like turning on his friends Yeah.

尽管他们俩都是嫌疑人。

Even though they're both suspects.

他声称曾三次被看不见的人开枪射击，有次甚至被击中颈部。

He claims he had been shot at three separate times by someone he couldn't see once he was even hit in the neck.

他认为这是老雷吉想逼他离开。

And he thinks it was Reggie senior trying to get him to leave.

所以他赶紧逃离了是非之地，一直保持低调。

So he got the heck out of Dodge and he'd been laying low.

他同意向警方透露更多信息。

And he agreed to tell the police more.

他说，是的。

He said, yeah.

老雷吉多年前确实问过我，能不能帮他'做掉'他老婆。

Reggie senior did ask me back in the day, years and years ago, if he could, quote, knock off his wife.

他说，我们最终谈妥了五万美元的价格，但有个问题。

He said, we did eventually agree on a price, $50,000, but there was just one problem.

吉米拒绝在法庭上为这些事作证。

Jimmy was refusing to testify to any of this in court.

他说，我可不干。

He's like, I'm not doing it.

于是他们又来了。

So they come back.

他们说，嘿，如果你作证我们就给你豁免权。

They're like, hey, we're gonna offer you immunity if you testify.

吉米却说，我看你们不会兑现。

And Jimmy's like, I don't think you guys are.

他拒绝了这张免罪金牌。

He rejects this get out of jail free card.

他几乎就是不相信这套系统会坚持原则。

It's almost like he didn't believe this system would stick to it.

我是说，确实有些时候他们没做到。

I mean, I'll be I mean, there's times they haven't.

是啊。

Yeah.

他们确实会承诺一些事然后

They do promise things and then

所以我觉得不能100%怪他拒绝认罪。

So, I mean, I don't like a 100% blame him for saying no.

目前这些事态发展下，我还不能确定他是否有罪。

I don't know if he's guilty or not yet with what's going on.

但是

But

他不信任警察。

He doesn't trust police.

不过当警员准备离开时，他确实拦住他们说：'我要你们这些小子知道，我才是整件事的关键。'

Though, as officers are leaving, he does stop them and say, quote, I want you boys to know that I am the key to all of this.

'如果你们觉得能以谋杀罪起诉我，那就尽管来。'

And if you think you can indict me for murder, then just do it.

我完全搞不懂他为什么在这里自爆。

I have no idea why he's tattling on himself right here.

那你为什么不接受刚拿到的那份认罪协议呢？

And why wouldn't you just take the deal you just got?

对啊。

Yeah.

比如，他有罪吗？

Like, he guilty?

他是在试图揭穿他们的虚张声势吗？

Is he trying to call their bluff?

就像他在说，嘿，逮捕我啊。

Like, he's like, hey, arrest me.

如果你们有证据，就逮捕我。

If you if you you have it, arrest me.

我不知道。

I don't know.

但警方可不是在虚张声势。

But police aren't bluffing.

他们有DNA证据。

They have DNA.

几周后，吉米和雷吉·西尼尔被以二级谋杀和共谋罪起诉。

A couple weeks later, they had second degree murder and conspiracy indictments for Jimmy and Reggie senior.

他们的第一站是带着逮捕令前往雷吉·西尼尔的家。

Their first stop was Reggie senior's house armed with an arrest warrant.

2019年6月21日，塞洛尼亚去世三十多年后，雷吉·里德终于被戴上了手铐。

On 06/21/2019, more than thirty years after Celonia's death, Reggie Reed was finally in handcuffs.

仍坚信父亲无辜的雷吉·小辈为父亲缴纳了25万美元保释金。

Still considering his innocence, Reggie junior puts up $250,000 for his father's bail.

吉米·雷·巴恩斯也被逮捕并起诉。

Jimmy Ray Barnes is also arrested and charged.

现在他意识到调查人员并非虚张声势，于是改口说：算了。

Now he's realizing the investigators weren't bluffing and he's like, never mind.

我愿意交代。

I'll talk.

我愿意交代。

I'll talk.

让我摆脱这个困境。

Let me get out of this.

就在他等待审判期间，警方向他提出了一个提议。

So as he's awaiting trial, police go to him with a proposition.

他们会将指控从二级谋杀减轻为事后从犯。

They will lessen the charges from second degree murder to accessory after the fact.

这并非完全豁免。

This isn't immunity.

就像，他们最初

Like, they first

提供的刑期可能是五年左右。

offered It was probably like five years.

他们说，你会获得轻得多的判决。

They're like, you will get a much lighter sentence.

只要告诉我们那天晚上发生的一切。

Just tell us everything that happened that night.

而且你必须愿意出庭指证你的老朋友——年长的雷吉，他是你的同谋。

And you have to be willing to testify against your old friend, Reggie senior, who was your accomplice.

以下是吉米的说辞。

And here's what Jimmy says.

实际上，吉米在谋杀案发生前一年左右，就已在塞洛尼亚工作的银行见过她。

Jimmy had actually met Celonia first at the bank she worked at about a year or so before the murder.

后来她将吉米介绍给自己的丈夫——年长的雷吉，后者雇佣他来做些房屋修缮工作。

She then introduced him to her husband, Reggie senior, who hired him to do some work on their house.

他们成了朋友。

They became friends.

在认识吉米约六个月后，雷吉找到他表示需要帮助。

And after knowing Jimmy for about six months, Reggie went to him and said he needed help.

他想找人照顾他的妻子。

He wanted someone to take care of his wife.

他愿意支付50美元来实现这个计划。

He was willing to pay $50 to make it happen.

起初吉米以为他是在开玩笑。

Now Jimmy thinks that he's joking at first.

但老雷吉却说，我要告诉你详细计划。

But Reggie senior is like, I'm gonna tell you the detailed plan.

他说8月22日那天，他同意在加油站外的停车场与老雷吉会面。

He said that on August 22, he agreed to meet Reggie senior at a parking area outside the gas station.

根据目击者记下的车牌号，他当时可能还开着雷吉的车。

Seems he may have even been driving Reggie's car because of the eyewitnesses who got the license plate.

与此同时，雷吉开着塞洛妮娅的蓝色轿车出现，塞洛妮娅就坐在副驾驶。

Meanwhile, Reggie shows up in Celonia's blue car with Celonia in the passenger seat.

好。

K.

据吉米描述，她脸上有血迹和泪痕，但已经一动不动了。

She has blood and tears on her face according to Jimmy, but she wasn't moving.

他说雷吉要求他上车帮忙搬运尸体，但吉米惊慌失措地拒绝了。

He said Reggie asked him to get in and help him move the body, but Jimmy panicked and refused.

所以吉米表示，这事与我无关。

So Jimmy's like, I didn't have anything to do.

我只是知道他杀了她。

I just knew that he killed her.

他说他们最终把塞洛妮娅留在了停车场。

Instead, he said, they left Celonia right there in the parking lot.

老雷吉上了吉米的车，那辆车应该就是雷吉的。

Reggie senior gets into Jimmy's car and that's presumably Reggie's car.

然后他们开车送雷吉回家。

And they then drive Reggie home.

他坚称我与实际谋杀案无关。

He insisted I had nothing to do with the actual murder.

我的过错只是当时在场为他开车，并看到了她的尸体。

I was just guilty of being there driving the car for him and seeing her dead body.

事实上他说，那天深夜是老雷吉返回了犯罪现场，脱光塞洛妮娅的衣服并用那瓶乳液涂抹她，试图让现场看起来更像性犯罪。

In fact, he said that later that night, Reggie senior was the one who returned to the crime scene, stripped Celonia naked and covered her in that lotion, hoping it would look more like a sex crime.

明白

Got

了。

it.

所以他回去并不是为了向你解释清楚。

So he actually goes back not to spell this out for you.

他回到犯罪现场，性侵了自己的妻子。

He goes back to the crime scene, sexually assaults his wife.

是的。

Yeah.

真恶心。

That's disgusting.

试图伪造现场。

To try and stage it.

此时已经死去的人。

Who's path who's dead by now.

诚然，已经过去三十年了他还没进监狱。

Granted, it's been thirty years and he's still not in prison.

简直是个人渣。

Like Absolute trash.

垃圾。

Trash.

一具尸体。

A dead body.

是啊。

Yeah.

明白吗？

Okay?

这给故事留下了几个情节漏洞。

This left a few plot holes in the story.

比如，如果吉米从未真正上车帮忙搬动尸体并拒绝协助，他的烟是怎么出现在车里的？

Like, how did Jimmy's cigarette get in the car if he never actually got in the car, helped move the body, refused to help?

没错。

Yeah.

那根烟是怎么到她车里的？

How was that cigarette in her car?

确实。

True.

后来一名狱友作证说吉米向他承认，他和弟弟比利受雇杀害塞洛尼亚，因她被抓到与...哦，精彩。

And a fellow inmate later testified that Jimmy admitted to him that he and his brother Billy were paid to kill Celonia after she was caught having Oh, an great.

所以现在已经

So now it's already

吉米用了锤子，比利用了冰锥，之后把她的尸体留在车里。

That Jimmy had used a hammer, Billy had used an ice pick before leaving her body in the car.

但调查人员仍认为老雷吉参与了谋杀。

But investigators still think now we believe Reggie senior had a hand in the killing.

塞洛尼亚那晚在小雷吉在沙发上昏睡后确实回过家，所以小雷吉会记得母亲离开，但她确实回来过。

That Celonia had came home the night after Reggie junior passed out on the couch, which is why Reggie junior would remember his mom leaving, but she really did come home.

是的。

Yeah.

而那个老雷吉在她回家后，在卧室里杀害了她。

And that Reggie Senior killed her after she came home in their bedroom.

儿子当时睡在客厅，还以为父亲仍在他身旁熟睡。

The son was sleeping in the living room thinking his dad was still asleep next to him.

随后他将她放入车内，在加油站与吉米碰头，吉米协助雷吉掩盖了罪行。

He then placed her in the car, met up with Jimmy at the gas station where he then helped Reggie cover the crime.

这是警方推测的案发经过。

This is what police think happened.

没错。

Yeah.

你可以想象小雷吉听到这个推论时的感受。

So you can only imagine how Reggie Junior feels when he hears this theory.

他记得那晚曾与母亲道别，而她再也没能回家。

He remembers saying goodbye to his mother that night and her never coming home.

现在他不断自问：我当时难道只是睡着了？

Now he's like, did I just sleep?

就像，当我认为父亲在我身旁熟睡时，他其实正在隔壁房间行凶，并把我当作不在场证明？

Like, was I asleep in the room next door as my father, who I thought was asleep next to me, was and using me as an alibi was actually killing my mother.

这足以彻底颠覆一个人的认知。

That would turn someone's entire reality upside down.

确实。

Yeah.

这太让人崩溃了。

That would mess with you.

这真的会让人精神崩溃。

That would that would really mess with your mind.

那会很难理解。

That would be hard to grasp.

他现在正面临一个非常艰难的选择——是否要支持正在候审的父亲。

He's having a really hard time about whether to support his dad at this point who's awaiting trial.

刻薄，不代表他不善良

Mean, doesn't he's kind

无意冒犯，但过去二十年他确实有点被洗脑了。

of been no offense, but he's kind of been brainwashed for the last twenty years.

这让事情变得更困难。

And it makes it harder.

他们没有找到凶器。

There is no murder weapon that they found.

也没有指纹。

There's no fingerprints.

根据检方提出的理论，他们搜查了据称案发的房子。

They searched the house where apparently this crime took place in the theory the prosecution is putting forward.

除了一条项链扣和微弱的漂白剂气味外，他们没发现任何值得注意的东西。

They found nothing of note aside from a necklace clasp and a faint smell of bleach.

他们唯一能确认的是死者萨洛尼亚身上发现的那种白色乳液。

The only thing they did have was an answer to that white lotion that was found on Salonia's body.

显然警方在里德家中找到了同品牌同型号的乳液。

Apparently, police were able to find that exact brand and type of lotion back at the Reed's home.

所以当2022年11月庭审开始时

So when the trial begins on in November 2022

这些都是间接证据。

It's all circumstantial.

这实际上是关键证据之一：在她遇害的车里发现的乳液，原装瓶却在房子里——这就是我们现在认定谋杀发生在房子的原因。

This is actually one of the critical pieces of evidence is that, hey, the lotion that was found in the car where she was found murdered was back at the house, which is why we can now say we believe the murder happened back at the house.

他们还使用了，你知道的，我之前告诉你的那些间接证据。

And they also use, you know, the other circle circumstantial evidence I have told you.

显然，辩方会说，她身上没有DNA痕迹。所以辩方声称是吉米独自干的。

Obviously, the defense is like, hey, there was no DNA under her So the defense is like, Jimmy did it alone.

吉米独自干的。

Jimmy did it alone.

你们抓错人了还是两人都有参与？

You guys have the wrong guy or are they both involved?

这一切都试图通过审判来查明真相。

This is all trying to get basically figured out at trial.

但在2022年11月18日，案发四十年后，老雷吉被判二级谋杀罪成立。

But on 11/18/2022, forty years after the crime, Reggie senior is found guilty of second degree murder.

四十年啊。

Forty years.

他现在多大年纪了？

How old is he at this point?

70岁，80岁？

70, 80?

肯定很老了。

Gotta be old.

我是说，如果当时他27岁的话。

I mean, if he was 27 at the time.

是啊。

Yeah.

那他77岁了。

So he's 77 years old.

哦，抱歉。

Oh, sorry.

67岁。

67 years old.

我的错。

My bad.

他因谋杀妻子被判终身监禁，而吉米·雷·巴恩斯因配合调查被判五年。

He's sentenced to life in prison for his wife's murder and Jimmy Ray Barnes was given a five year sentence for his cooperation.

他实际上提前了一点获释。

Was He actually released a little bit earlier.

是啊。

Yeah.

五年。

Five years.

然而在2024年1月，他回到哈蒙德参加双胞胎兄弟比利·雷的葬礼。

In January 2024, however, he was back in Hammond attending his twin brother, Billy Ray's funeral.

他们曾以为比利·雷的DNA是匹配的。

Billy Ray who they thought was DNA.

就在他回到这个至少与他有些牵连的地方时，吉米·雷在参加双胞胎兄弟葬礼期间遭遇车祸身亡。

And while he's there, back at this place where he was at least somewhat involved, Jimmy Ray dies in a car accident while attending his twin brother's funeral.

太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

就在那个他曾经... 嗯哼...

In the place that he had Uh-huh.

逃离的地方。至于小雷吉，他说自己至今仍不确定立场。

Run away As for Reggie Junior, he says he still doesn't know where he stands.

他表示：'我不确定我父亲得到了公正的审判。'

He's like, I'm not sure my dad got a fair trial.

他每天都在反复纠结。

Every day he goes back and forth.

他没有任何答案。

He doesn't have any answers.

那一定很艰难。

That would be so hard.

我真的很抱歉。

I'm so sorry.

他说，但我就是无法把他看作杀害我母亲的怪物。

He's like, but I just can't see him as a monster that killed my mother.

是啊。

Yeah.

事实上，他写了一本关于这段经历的回忆录，名为《母亲永远不回家的那一天》。

In fact, he wrote a memoir about this entire experience called The Day My Mother Never Came Home.

我确信雷吉至今仍在质疑那晚的记忆——那些回忆是否准确，是否被加工过，是否被扭曲或重塑。

And I'm sure Reggie still questions what he remembers from that night, whether his memories are accurate, manufactured, have they been twisted or molded.

当现实给你抛出这样的意外时，怎么可能不去质疑过去呢？

How can you not question the past when the present throws you curveballs like this?

但有一点雷吉似乎从未质疑。

But there's one thing Reggie doesn't seem to question.

那就是他自己的未来。

It's his own future.

所以当老雷吉忙着提交上诉时，小雷吉正专注于自己的家庭。

So while Reggie senior is filing appeals, Reggie junior is focusing on his own family.

他有妻子、儿子，还有个以母亲名字命名的小女儿塞洛妮娅。

A wife, a son, and a little girl he had, who he named Celonia after his mother.

真美好。

That's nice.

以上就是塞洛妮娅·里德的案件。

And that is the case of Celonia Reid.

但我认为这个案件恰恰说明了这一切有多么微妙复杂。

But I think something about this case that just goes to show is how nuanced all of this is.

我反复强调过无数次，一个人被谋杀时会有多少受害者。

And again, I've said it a 100 times, how many victims there are when one person is murdered.

这些案件中的孩子们，这些案件中的家庭成员，对他们来说这不是非黑即白的问题。

The kids of these cases, the family members of these cases, it is not black and white for them.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得这确实很难，因为我们作为局外人更容易看这个案子然后直接断定是雷吉干的。

I think it's really hard because I think it's a lot easier for us as an outside perspective to look at this case and be like, oh, Reggie did it.

但当你身处其中时——我是说当事人，当涉及情感因素，当牵涉人际关系时，情况就复杂得多。

It's just a lot more difficult when you're I mean, someone involved, when there's emotions involved, when there's relationships involved.

这时候事情就会变得异常棘手。

That's when things become so much more difficult.

所以真的很困难。

So it's just hard.

这确实是个非常非常棘手的案子。

That's that's a really it's a really difficult one.

我想说的是，这个案件之所以难以理解，是因为至今仍没有清晰的事件经过。

And I will say, like, I think the reason this case is hard to fathom is because there really still isn't a clear story of what happened.

你只有控方的推测理论，但没有任何物证。

Like, you have the prosecution's theory, but there's no physical evidence.

甚至连凶器是什么都不知道。

You don't even know what the murder weapon is.

你无法确定谋杀是发生在车里还是发生在其他地方，太多不确定因素了。

You don't know if the murder happened in the car or if it happened back like, there's just so much.

我不喜欢这样。

I don't like that.

我不喜欢那样。

I don't like that.

我们不知道的事情太多了

So much that we don't know

你不认为是里奇干的吗？

for don't think Richie did it?

是的。

Yes.

我能百分百确定是他干的吗？

Could I say a 100% certain he did?

不知道。

Don't know.

我真的不知道

I really don't

知道。

know.

这太刻薄了，而且他们总是这样告诉陪审团。

It would be so mean And they tell juries all the time.

听着，你其实不需要知道任何细节。

Listen, you don't need to actually know anything.

你只需要知道他是否干了这件事。

You just need to know if he did it.

对。

Yeah.

比如，你不需要了解细节。

Like, you don't need the details.

你只需要告诉我们他是否……

You just need to tell us if he's I

我想我们已经到了这样一个阶段——有时候事情就是没有道理可讲。

think we I've come to the point where sometimes things just aren't going to make sense.

你看，我就是那种需要知道所有细节的人。

See, I'm like, I need the details.

而且我真的不知道我们是否总能掌握全部真相，因为撒谎太容易了，隐瞒事实也太容易了。

And I I just don't know if we'll always have them because easy to lie, easy to hide things.

这比我们想象的要简单得多。

It's easier than we think it is.

我认为陪审团会认为，所有间接证据都指向他，这对我们来说就足够了。

I think juries go, all the circumstantial evidence points to him and that is enough for us.

即便没有物证或清晰的来龙去脉，排除合理怀疑后就能判定他有罪。

Without a reasonable doubt, he did it even though we don't have the physical evidence or the really the clear story.

好了各位。

Alright, you guys.

这就是我们今天的节目内容。

That is our episode for today.

请大家今天为本案的幸存家属默哀。

Please keep the surviving family members of this case in your thoughts today.

请记住这是真实发生的悲剧，确实每天都在影响着他们的生活。

Remember that this is real and truly truly does affect them every single day.

保持善意吧，因为你并未经历他们的痛苦。

Have grace because you aren't in their shoes.

我们下次会带来新一期节目。

We will see you next time with another episode.

我喜欢这样。

I love it.

我讨厌这样。

I hate it.

再见。

Goodbye.