#13 - 他靠……毛毯、豆袋椅和蜡烛赚了数百万美元？

好的，不错。

Okay, good.

所以，是的。

So yeah.

我当时有个想法。

I had an idea.

我知道，如果真到那一步，我能制作几千条毯子。

I knew that I could make a couple thousand blankets if it got down to it.

我当时完全没想到接下来会发生什么。

I had no idea what was coming.

但你没有先去制作毯子。

But you didn't go make the blankets first.

没有。

No.

你是先发起的Kickstarter。

You start the Kickstarter first.

我们是在Kickstarter上做的。

We did it on Kickstarter.

开始之前，你有没有想过，"哦，我有这个成功Kickstarter的套路，"还是说，"我不知道。

Going into that, did you think, "Oh, I got this playbook where this is gonna be a successful Kickstarter," or was it like, "I don't know.

我们就边做边看，看看会发生什么"？

We'll just figure it out and see what happens"?

当时一切都不确定。

It was up in the air.

其实挺有意思的。

It was actually funny.

我和帮我的人，我们都打了赌。

We all took bets with me and the team that was helping me.

我们都赌它会达到什么程度，而我赌的是最高的。

We all took bets on what it would do, and I bet I had the highest bet.

我以为它能赚到一百万。

I thought it was gonna do a million bucks.

大家都觉得我疯了。

And everyone thought I was insane.

而且在我们一起工作的那几个月里，我一直试图说服他们帮我推出重力毯，大家更觉得我疯了。

And everyone thought I was even more insane for the couple of months that we worked together that I was trying to convince them to help me launch a weighted blanket.

所以他们都觉得，"好吧，这小孩真不靠谱。"

So they were like, "Okay, this kid is ridiculous."

我当时觉得它会做得不错。

I thought it was gonna do well.

我知道它会成功。

I knew it was gonna do well.

但我没想到会这么快就做得那么好。

I didn't think it was gonna do that well that quickly.

那秘诀是什么？

And so what's the trick?

好，所以你想做一个成功的Kickstarter项目。

Okay, so you wanna do a successful Kickstarter.

跟我说说，你觉得你们成功的原因有哪些？

Tell me about some of the elements that go into why you think it worked for you guys.

现在可能不行了，但当时你们就是靠这些让那个Kickstarter成功的。

It may not work now, but at that time, these were the things you guys did to make that Kickstarter successful.

我很想深入了解一下那些核心关键部分。

I'd love to dig into some of the details of The core critical components.

我们当时就围绕这个理念，我们的情绪板，听起来挺傻的，就是“睡眠界的特斯拉”。

We played into this whole, our mood board, as stupid as it sounds, was like Tesla for sleep.

所以我们做了重力毯，给它营造了一种科技感。

And so we did Gravity Blanket, and we gave it this whole science feel.

对。

Yep.

那时候埃隆·马斯克简直是神中之神。

And that was really when Elon Musk was the god of all gods.

他做的任何事都——

Where anything he did was-

……被转发了90次。

... retweeted 90 times.

我们都信了那一套。

We're drinking the Kool-Aid.

没错。

Exactly.

所有人都信了。

Everyone's drinking the Kool-Aid.

那时候还没人讨厌他。

No one had hated him yet.

还没。

Yet.

所以我们品牌做对了，信息传对了，受众找对了，时机也抓对了。

And so we got the branding right, we got the messaging right, we got the audience right, we got the timing right.

那时候正好是特朗普当选的时候，大家都慌得不行，都说“哎呀，我睡不着觉了”。

This was right when Trump was getting elected, and everyone was freaking out and was like, "Oh, I'm not sleeping."

而且那时候Casper和睡眠产品的事情刚发生。

And also the Casper thing and the sleep thing just happened.

这个产品是从一个不同的角度切入的，它不只是关于睡眠，而是关于健康放松。

And this was sort of taking a different angle where it was like, this isn't about necessarily sleep, it's about a wellness relaxation.

这个产品没有性别之分。

And there's no gender to this product.

每个人都已经在用毯子了，这个产品只是提高了它的功效——

It's everyone uses a blanket already, and it's just sort of increasing the efficacy-

——让一个大家都熟悉的产品变得更好用。

... of a product that everyone is familiar with.

所以再说一次，我可以列一个清单——

So again, I could go down a list-

——列个没完，然后仔细分析，但问题是，如果我想把这个公式套用到别的东西上，是行不通的。

... forever and dissect it, but the problem is, again, if I tried to take this formula and overlay it onto something else, it wouldn't work.

所以对于Moon Pod，当我做第二次众筹的时候，我用了完全不同的方法。

So for Moon Pod, when I did the second Kickstarter, I approached it completely different.

我没有找媒体合作伙伴。

I didn't get a media partner.

我没有试图用那种宏大夸张的方式启动。

I didn't try to launch with this big grandiose thing.

我没有花很多钱——

I didn't spend a lot of money-

因为我觉得这个产品不适合那样做。

... because I didn't think the product was right for that.

我没有在广告上花很多钱。

I didn't spend a lot of money on advertising.

价值主张不同了。

The value prop was different.

承诺也不同了。

The promise was different.

所以就像，你真的需要——

So it was like, you have to really-

你看了基本面，然后就想，"我有什么？"

You looked at the fundamentals, and you're like, "What do I have?"

"我需要什么？"

"And what do I need?"

完全正确。

100%.

我想提一下你说过的几件事，因为那些挺微妙的，我们就不深入细节了，但你确实做了些决定。

I want to bring up a couple of things that you said because they're kind of nuanced, and we won't go too far into the details, but you made some decisions.

每次发布产品，你都会走一个决策树，到最后，对于成功的产品，你会觉得，"哦，当然是这样。"

Any time you launch a product, there's this decision tree you go down, and by the end, for successful products, it's like, "Oh, of course."

当然，你叫它重力毯，这很合理。

Of course, that makes sense that you would call it the Gravity Blanket.

你会把它做成灰色调、中性色，而不是粉色或蓝色之类的。

You would make it sort of gray and neutral and not pink or blue or whatever.

你会用科学的角度，而不是别的角度来营销它。

You would use the science thing rather than something else, a different angle to market it.

那你给我们讲讲，还有哪些其他的选择是你本来可以走的？

And so give us a sense of what are some of those other forks that you could've taken.

在另一个平行宇宙里，它不叫重力毯，可能叫别的什么名字。

In an alternate universe, it was not called Gravity Blanket, it was called blah, blah, blah.

而且你本来不打算走科学路线，而是想用另一个角度来定位它。

And instead of going after science, you were going to go after a different angle to position it.

你们当时排除了哪些备选方案？

What were some of the alternates that you guys ruled out?

我们开玩笑来着。

We joked about it.

我们开玩笑说叫它特朗普毯。

We joked about calling it the Trump Blanket.

我们还开玩笑说叫它男朋友毯或者女朋友毯，因为大家都说，哦，我不需要另一半来抱着睡。

We joked about calling it a Boyfriend Blanket- ... or a Girlfriend Blanket because everyone was like, "Oh, I don't need a significant other to snuggle with.

我直接买重力毯就行了。

I'll buy Gravity."

男朋友毯子可能还真行。

Boyfriend Blanket might've worked.

男朋友毯子可能还真行。

Boyfriend Blanket might've worked.

再说一次，但就是没……

And again, but just didn't...

这其实是在有想法可以测试和最终决策之间找平衡。这也是为什么量化对冲基金不太行得通，为什么靠A/B测试来找到产品市场契合度也不太靠谱。

It's a balance between having these ideas that you can test, but then at the end of the day, this is why quant hedge funds don't really work, and why A/B testing your way to product market fit doesn't really work.

总有一个时刻，你需要真正的产品洞察力、信心和愿景——

There still comes a time where you have to have real product insight, confidence, and a vision-

……然后就是凭直觉下注。

... and just take that bet on your gut.

如果你试图把一切都搞成决策树，搞成A/B测试，搞来搞去，你会迷失方向，会忘记我第一次自己盖上它时的那种感觉。

If you try to do this whole thing of like, "Here's the decision tree, and here's this, and let's A/B test, and this," you just get lost, and you forget that feeling that you had when I first put it on myself.

而正是那种感觉，在我做决策和推动一切的时候，一直是我最依赖的东西。

And that was the feeling that I really leaned into when I was driving and making all these decisions.

我当时想，'好吧，哈哈，这真是个玩笑。'

It was like, "Okay, yeah, ha ha, this is a joke.

就叫它'男友毯'吧。

Let's call it a Boyfriend Blanket."

然后我又想，'我也不确定。'

And I was like, "I don't know."

但你用的时候可不是这种感觉。

That's not how you felt when you used it.

这太严肃了。

"This is too serious."

我当时觉得，'这太真实了。'

I was like, "This is too real.

这不是玩笑。

This isn't a joke.

这会改变人们的睡眠方式。

This is going to change how people sleep."

所以当时就想，好吧，那就叫重力毯，我们打算往科学这个方向走，因为确实有科学依据在里面。

And so it was like, okay, so Gravity Blanket, we're going to move towards this idea of science because there was science there.

所以关键就在于，多去探索，把各种可能的方向都摆在桌面上，这是好事。

So it really is about it's good to explore and have on the table all of these different areas that you could go.

但说到底，我始终相信，最终还是要靠某种真正的直觉。

But at the end of the day, I really am a believer that it comes from having some sort of real gut instinct.

完全同意。

Totally.

在产品方面，你没法靠A/B测试一路试到成功，但可能性确实存在——

On the product side, you can't A/B test your way to success, but the possibilities do exist-

完全同意。

Totally

……而且这些可能性确实会出现在你脑子里，然后你会用数据或者就是靠信念，来决定走哪条路。

... and they do come to your brain, and you use something, either data or just conviction around which path to go down.

所以你在过程中就是一直在做这些决定。

And so you were making those decisions as you were going.

所以就有这么个因素。

So there's that element.

你刚才说的另一个有意思的点是产品承诺。

The other thing you said that was interesting was product promise.

我一直用这个词。

I've used this term.

其实我从来没听别人说过，所以你说的时候我挺兴奋的，因为我看待生意的方式是，每个产品都对顾客做出一个承诺。

I've never actually heard anyone else say it, so when you said it, I got kind of excited because the way I look at business is every product makes a promise to a customer.

我能为你做什么？

What am I going to do for you?

你得做出正确的承诺——

And you've got to make the right promise-

因为如果你承诺的东西我不在乎——

... because if you're promising something I don't care about-

那我就会直接忽略你，对吧？

... then I'm just going to ignore you, right?

如果我承诺能帮你把头发变蓝，但你对头发变蓝这件事根本不在乎，那谁会在意呢？

If I promised you that I could blah, blah, blah, turn your hair blue, if you don't care about your hair turning blue, who cares?

你根本不在乎我。

You don't care about me.

所以你得做出正确的承诺，然后还得兑现它。

So you've got to make the right promise, and then you've got to live up to it.

那重力毯的承诺是什么呢？

And so the promise of the Gravity Blanket is what?

是减轻焦虑吗？

Is it to reduce anxiety?

还是说——

Is it to-

你试图通过这个产品传达的简单承诺是什么？

What is the simple promise that you try to make with that product?

对，我在这上面花了很多时间，最后我们确定的标语是：一条25磅重的毯子，帮助睡眠、缓解压力和焦虑。

Yeah so, I spent a ton of time on this, and we landed on the tagline that really worked for us was a 25-pound blanket for sleep, stress, and anxiety.

我们花了一段时间才找到那句简单的话。

And it took a while to get there, to find that simple sentence.

但说实话，如果你用它来改善睡眠，你很可能真的会睡得更好。

But really, if you're using it to sleep better, you're going to probably sleep better.

所以我们当时就想，"好，那——"

So we were like, "Okay, that-

对

Yep

"... 这样就对了。"

... that works."

如果你压力大，把它盖在身上，它很可能让你平静下来。

If you're stressed out, and you throw it over you, it will probably calm you down.

好，那不错。

Okay, that's good.

如果你正经历严重的焦虑，把它往身上一盖，同样的事情也会发生。

And if you have this crazy anxiety that's happening, and you sort of throw it on top of yourself, the same thing is going to happen.

所以我们当时做的那些承诺，我们非常非常有信心，大多数客户都会兑现的。

So all those promises that we were making, we were super, super confident that it's going to be delivered from the majority of the customers.

那让我们给大家一个规模的概念吧。

And let's give people a sense of the scale of things.

你做了Kickstarter众筹。

So you do the Kickstarter.

你基本上拿到了500万美元的预售额。

You get 5 million bucks of essentially pre-sales.

对。

Yep.

到目前为止，这个产品的销售额是多少？

To date, what has the product done in sales now?

它走到了哪一步？

How far did it go?

重力毯到底卖得有多火？

How far did the Gravity Blanket really go?

那可不是小数目。

It's a lot.

我们公司成立两年了。

We've been around for two years.

我算是退居二线了，团队现在主要靠线上渠道，发展得特别快。

I have sort of stepped away, and the team there is scaling it in a really incredible way online mostly.

我们也在开始接触一些零售渠道什么的。

We're starting to get into some retail stuff and whatever.

对。

Yep.

我不想替他们发言。

I don't want to speak for them.

我查资料的时候看到个数字，说销售额已经超过1500万了。

I read a number that said 15 million when I was doing my research for this, that it's done over 15 million in sales.

这数字是公开的吗？

That's printed somewhere?

对，那是印在某个地方的。

Yeah, that's printed somewhere.

好的，太棒了。

Okay, amazing.

所以，是的。

So yeah.

现在比那还要多一点。

It's a little more than that now-

……显然，因为那大概是，什么时候——一年前——

... obviously, because that was probably, what- A year ago-

对，也许吧。

Yeah, maybe

……几个月前。

... a couple months ago.

对，所以从那以后又增长了。

Yeah, so it's grown since then.

但话说回来，这是个非常健康的生意。

But again, it's a super healthy business.

它从第一天就开始盈利，一旦这样，就会形成一种正向循环，像加油一样推动它成长。

It was profitable from day one, and when that happens, you have this positive feedback loop of gas-

……帮助它不断壮大。

... that helps it grow.

所以你就开发了那个产品，之后又陆续开发了后续的产品。

And so you developed that product, and you've developed subsequent products since.

你提到了Moon Pod。

You said Moon Pod.

另一个是什么？

What's the other one?

蜡烛？

The candle?

蜡烛挺有意思的。

The candle's fun.

这是一个——

It's a-

跟我们说说这些产品承诺了什么。

Tell us about the promise that those make.

对，完全同意。

Yeah, totally.

所以Moon Pod也是类似的承诺。

So Moon Pod was a similar promise.

我当时基本上就是，我开始慌了，然后想，"天哪，如果我永远只是个毯子先生怎么办？"

I basically was like, I started freaking out and was like, "Holy shit, what if I'm just the blanket guy forever?

如果我永远不能——"

What if I can never-"

一炮而红的那种。

The one-hit wonder.

然后就像，你问为什么它成功了，以及你怎么才能做成一件成功的事？

And it was like, you asked why did it work and how do you have a successful thing?

我当时真的很害怕，觉得自己只是运气好。

I was really scared that I just got lucky.

或者是因为这个那个原因，也许Facebook广告便宜，或者我接触到的受众，可能我只是骗了大家买东西，以后再也做不到了。

Or that it was because this or that, and maybe Facebook was cheap or something, or the audience that I had access to, maybe I did just trick everyone into buying something and I'll never be able to do that again.

我当时特别焦虑。

And I was freaking out.

所以Gravity一火，我就想：“天哪，我得想出第二个产品。”

So the second that Gravity hit, I was like, "Oh my God, I've got to come up with number two.

我必须想出第二个产品。

I have to come up with number two."

然后我一个人去了日本，想放松一下，结果到处看到懒人沙发。

And I went over to Japan alone to sort of have a chill out, and I started just seeing all of these beanbags.

我就想：“哇，美国居然没有一个好的懒人沙发。”

And I was like, "Wow, there isn't a great beanbag in the United States."

然后我就想：“好吧。”

And I was like, "Okay."

我在日本坐了几个，感觉就像当初用重力毯时一样，胸口有种……

And I sat in a few in Japan, and kind of had that same feeling that I had when I put Gravity on, where it was like my chest sort of...

感觉灵魂好像出窍了，整个人沉浸在一种极乐状态里。

It felt like my soul sort of left my body, and I was sort of just in this bliss.

我当时就想：“天哪，这又是一个让我有这种感觉的产品。”

And I was like, "Holy shit, this is another product where that happened again."

回到家后，我买了一大堆豆袋椅来测试。

And I went home, and I bought a bunch of beanbags to test them out.

但没有一个让我满意的。

I wasn't happy with any of them.

不过，当我把一些豆袋椅和重力毯一起用的时候，我就想：“天哪，这简直是和重力毯搭配的完美平台。”

But when I used some of the beanbags with the Gravity Blanket, I was like, "Oh my God, this is the perfect platform to use with Gravity Blanket."

太棒了。

Amazing.

所以我就想：“好，就这么办。”

So I was like, "Okay."

这是互补的。

It's complementary.

互补的。

Complementary.

我压力大的时候、需要小睡的时候，或者感到焦虑的时候，就会坐在上面。

I would sit on it when I was stressed, when I needed a nap, or I had anxiety.

那它比我在美国长大时见过的普通豆袋椅好在哪儿呢？

And what makes it better than a normal beanbag that I've experienced here growing up in the States?

完全同意。

Totally.

我们有一个很酷的圆形设计，非常独特。

So we have a pretty cool rounded design that's super unique.

而且我们用的材料是双层膜结构，有内层和外层，外层是那种有弹性的针织面料，能保持形状。

And then the material that we use, there's a dual membrane where we have an inner layer and an outer layer, and the outer layer is this elastic jersey type of thing that holds its form.

里面的填充颗粒是我们找到的一种特制高摩擦颗粒。

And then the inner bead is this custom high-friction bead that we found.

全美国只有一个人能按我想要的方式做这种东西，而且愿意跟我合作。

There's only one guy in the US that makes these things the way that I wanted them to, and that would work with me.

所以，有了这一整套组合，你基本上会有一种漂浮的感觉。

And so, with this whole combination, you basically get this sensation that you're kind of floating.

而且你被支撑着，还能变成一把椅子。

And you're supported, and it can turn into a chair.

这是个很奇怪的模块化东西，你在外面看不到这样的。

And it's this weird modular thing, and you don't see that out there.

就像Love Sac和其他几个品牌，就是那种巨大的泡沫袋子。

It's like Love Sac and a few others that are just this big giant sack of foam.

我见过那些。

I've seen those.

而这是一种轻便、可塑的支撑系统，你能在后腰感受到它。

And this is sort of this lightweight, malleable support system that's sort of like you feel it in your lower back.

无论你往哪个方向靠，它都会给你一个反作用力。

Any which way you lean into it, it sort of pushes back against you.

那确实挺独特的。

And that was pretty unique.

做这个的人不多。

There aren't a lot of people doing that.

而且没人真正在讲我们讲的故事，就是那种“嘿，这是给成年人用的豆袋椅”。

And no one's really telling the story that we're telling, where it's kind of like, "Hey, this is an adult beanbag."

“没关系。

"It's okay.

它真的是个超棒的地方，你可以坐着工作、放松或者闲待着。”

It is kind of the best place to sit where you want to do work, or chill out, or hang out."

通常在这个播客里，我很少跟嘉宾聊他们的产品，因为那样会变成推销，毕竟通常嘉宾对自己的产品特别热衷。

Normally on the podcast, I remarkably don't talk to the guests so much about their product because it ends up feeling like a sales pitch because usually the person's really into their product.

完全同意。

Totally.

大家来这儿更多是想听故事。

And people are here for more of the story.

你的情况，我其实特别想聊，因为你的产品本身就很有意思。

In your case, I actually really want to talk about it because your product is naturally interesting.

我觉得它对所有人都有吸引力。

I feel like it's interesting to everybody.

好，那这就是秘密所在。

Okay, so this is the secret.

这是个爆款产品，对吧？

It's the viral product, right?

但秘密就在这里。

But this is the secret.

大家都太关注那些无关紧要的破事了。

Everyone focuses so much on other shit that doesn't matter.

就像，"哦——

It's like, "Oh-

那些技巧。

The tactics.

……你的转化率是多少？

... what's your conversion rate?

或者这个，或者那个。

Or this, or this."

就像，“等等，你在卖什么？”

It's like, "Wait, what are you selling?"

每当我坐下来，我总是谈论产品，因为那玩意儿最让人兴奋。

And whenever I sit down, I always talk about the product because that shit is the most exciting.

这就是我们在这里的原因。

That's why we're here.

这就是我们要卖的东西。

That's what we're selling.

我不是在卖什么Facebook上的套利，也不是什么邮件列表的访问权，或者什么销售。

I'm not selling some arbitrage on Facebook or some access to an email list or some sale.

就像，不不不。就这么简单，太他妈简单了。

It's like, no, no, no. It's so fucking simple.

我做的豆袋椅是全世界最好的。

I make the best beanbag ever.

就这么简单。

That's it.

这就是我们在这里的原因。

That's why we're here.

我的重力毯用起来感觉特别棒。

My weighted blanket feels incredible.

真的没什么好说的了。

There really isn't much else to talk about.

其他都是基本功。

Everything else is blocking and tackling.

就是要抓住那个瞬间，找到那个让你忍不住想聊的产品。

It's like, get that moment and find that product that makes you want to talk about it.

就像你说的，你其实不太会问这些问题，但这是因为我在找那些有趣、让人愿意聊的产品上花了很多时间。

Like you say, you don't really ask these questions, but it's because I've spent time finding these products that are interesting that people want to talk about.

对。

Yes.

而这正是几乎没人谈论的事情，我觉得这太不可思议了。

And that is sort of something that no one really talks about which is crazy to me.

有太多人——

There's so many people-

……来找我，带着各种问题，我就问：“好，你在卖什么？”

... that come to me and have all these questions, and I'm like, "Great, what are you selling?"

他们就说：“哦，是个零食。

And they're like, "Oh, it's a snack.

这个。”

The this."

我就问：“好，那它跟这个、这个、这个有什么不同？”

And I'm like, "Great, why is it different than this, this, and this?"

他们就说：“嗯，就是标志不一样。”

And they're like, "Well, it has a different logo."

我就说，'好吧，我不在乎。'

And I'm like, "Well, I don't care."

那我就不管了。

Now I'm out.

就是，好吧。

It's like, okay.

我觉得你这种极其简单的处理方式挺让人受启发的。

I would say your very simplistic approach to this is inspiring.

你说的时候，就像在说，'我抓住了重点，而且一直把重点放在重点上。'

When you were saying that, you're like, "I got the main thing right, and I kept the main thing the main thing."

这才是该做的事。

And that's the thing to do.

这就是重点。

That's the main thing.

那我们为什么都在分散自己的注意力呢？

And why are we all distracting ourselves?

我喜欢这一点。

And I like that.

我非常喜欢这种思路。

I like that approach very much.

我听说那个5小时能量饮料的创始人，挺传奇的。

I heard that 5-Hour Energy guy who's like idol stuff.

他也说过同样的话。

He said the same shit.

他说，有一次我坐大巴在加州到处跑，就是想搞清楚方向。

He was like, one of my bus rides around California when I was just trying to figure it out.

他们问我，"为什么可口可乐、百事可乐或者别的公司没把你干掉？"

They were like, "Why haven't Coke, or Pepsi, or whoever come and knocked you out of the water?"

他说，"他们总是忘了最重要的事。

And he was like, "They always forget about the most important thing.

那就是产品本身。"

It's the product."

他说：‘我做出了最好的配方，没人能复制。’

He's like, "I made the best formula, and no one can copy it."

那为什么可口可乐还能存在？

And why does Coke still exist?

没错，确实可以说他们掌握了分销渠道之类的，但我不在乎。

Yes, there is a very real argument that they own distribution and all this shit, but I don't care.

如果只是把可口可乐换成Moxie，我可不会被Moxie诱惑。

If you just replaced Coca-Cola with Moxie, I'm not being tempted by Moxie.

我不会动摇。

I'm not caving in.

我不会离开健身房后还在想：‘我不知道，’

I'm not leaving the gym and still being like, "I don't know.

我有点想犒劳自己喝一瓶Moxie，就因为它就在眼前。’

I kind of want to treat myself to a Moxie just because it's in my face."

可口可乐喝起来就像魔法一样。

Coca-Cola tastes like magic.

这太不可思议了。

It is incredible.

它一直很稳定。

It is consistent.

我从来没尝过这样的东西，它赢是有原因的。

I've never tasted anything like it, and that wins for a reason.

而且，可口可乐的特殊配方之所以是这么大的秘密，没人能复制，就是因为他们明白，产品本身才是关键。

And there's a reason why the special Coke formula is this massive secret that no one can ever copy, is because they understand that it's the product.

所以你在旧金山。

So you're in San Francisco.

有很多人会不同意你的看法，不只是关于可乐作为饮料好不好喝，而是——

There's a lot of people that would disagree with you, not just on Coke being great as a drink, but just-

那些说可乐不好喝的人都是错的。

Everyone who says that Coke is not a good drink is wrong

……大家都在谈品牌、供应链，还有其他一切，我喜欢你对这个有不同的看法。

... everyone talks about brand, supply chain, everything else, and I like that you have a different take on it.

你得全都具备。

You have to have all of it.

你得全都具备，但很多人只是出去筹个两百万，给牙膏或者别的东西换个新标志，我就觉得，哎，真不知道怎么说。

You have to have all of it, but a lot of people that are just going out and raising 2 million bucks to put a different logo on toothpaste or something, it's like, I don't know, man.

我都不确定我会不会下这个赌注。

I don't know if I'd take that bet.

我都不确定我愿不愿意花五年时间，就为了做个品牌形象，然后把它摆上几家零售商的货架。

I don't know if I'd want to spend five years of my life just sort of doing a brand exercise and getting it on the shelves of a few retailers.

这真的没什么意思，而且别跟我说你在改变人们的生活，因为你并没有。

It's like, that's not really that exciting, and don't tell me that you're changing people's lives, because you're not.

再说一次，就是要找到那个神奇的时刻。

And again, it's just like, find that magic moment.

你可以做各种计算，可以筹钱，可以联系所有分销商，也可以把它硬塞到别人面前。

And you can do the equation, you can raise money, you can tap all these distributors, and you can throw it in someone's face.

但归根结底，除非有人自然而然地爱上它，否则它不会真正持久或成功。

But at the end of the day, it's not going to really last or work unless someone naturally falls in love with it.

这归根结底还是产品本身。

And that comes down to the product.

你的故事让我有点想起Calm的创始人。

Your story reminds me a little bit of the founders of Calm.

你认识他们吗？

Do you know those guys?

不认识。

I don't.

亚历克斯和——

Alex and-

不认识。

I don't.

我们跟他们合作过。

We worked with them.

Gravity团队跟他们合作过。

The Gravity team worked with them.

我们跟他们有过一次完整的合作。

We did a whole collaboration with them.

所以我打算请他们上我的播客。

So I'm going to have them on the podcast.

他们是好朋友。

They're good friends.

而且亚历克斯有个……疯狂的人生故事，他当时大概20或21岁，创建了milliondollarhomepage.com，因为他只是想——

And Alex has this ... crazy life story where he was, I think, 20 or 21 years old, and he created milliondollarhomepage.com because he just wanted-

不错。

Nice

……他当时就想，"我怎样才能赚到一百万？"

... he was like, "How do I make a million dollars?"

他才是这个播客应该存在的真正原因。

He's the reason this podcast should exist, really.

他的故事最精彩，所以我打算请他上节目。

He's got the best story, so I'm going to have him on.

但他做了一个主页。

But he made a homepage.

你见过百万美元主页吗？

Did you ever see Million Dollar Homepage?

你知道这是什么吗？

You know what this is?

不知道。

No.

他搞了个网站，那大概是2000年左右的事。

So he took a website, this is back year 2000 or something like that.

具体什么时候我不太清楚。

I don't know exactly when it was.

那时候互联网还没那么成熟，他弄了个网站，然后把它分成了一百万个像素格子。

But internet wasn't super mature yet, and he takes a website, and he just divides it up into 1,000 by 1,000 pixels.

哦，我见过这个。

Oh, I saw this.

一百万个像素。

A million pixels.

我见过这个。

I saw this.

太牛了。

It's sick.

他把每个像素，每个方块，都卖一美元。

He just sold every pixel, every square, for a dollar.

厉害。

Sick.

你可以买十个之类的。

And you could buy 10 of them or whatever.

所以他在几周内基本上就卖完了——

And so he, in a few weeks, essentially sells-

整个都卖出去了。

Sold the whole thing

……在这个网站上赚了一百万美元的广告费。

... a million dollars of advertising on this website.

这肯定很厉害。

This must be amazing.

然后他说：‘成为互联网历史的一部分吧。’

And was like, "Be a part of internet history."

他还搞了公关那一套之类的。

And he played the PR machine and whatever.

所以他赚了一百万美元。

So he makes a million bucks.

他一年内就花光了，因为他才21岁……玩得很开心，把钱都挥霍掉了。

He spends it within a year because he's 21 years old- ... and he's having fun and he blows it.

而且他很享受这个过程。

And he enjoyed it.

但他当时想：‘好吧，下一个大机会马上就会来的。’

But he thought, "All right, that next hit's right around the corner."

然后在接下来的十年里——

And in the next 10 years-

……他基本上再也没能做出一个热门产品。

... he basically failed to make another hit.

但他一直在尝试，不断尝试，直到他做出了Calm。

But he kept trying, kept trying, kept trying, until he makes Calm.

其实Calm一开始也不是立刻火起来的。

And actually, Calm was not an instant hit either.

Calm是一个冥想应用。

Calm's a meditation app.

对。

Yep.

可能是世界上最受欢迎的冥想应用之一。

Probably one of the most popular meditation apps in the world.

现在它的估值超过十亿美元了。

It's valued over a billion dollars now.

当时我记得他刚开始做的时候，我还跟他说，'你要做冥想应用？'

And at the time, I remember talking to him when he was starting it, and it was like, "You're doing a meditation app?"

这故事挺疯狂的，但他当时所处的领域跟你一样，都是关于缓解焦虑的。

And it's kind of a crazy story, but he was still in the same space you're in, which is around anti-anxiety-

对

Yep

减压的。

... de-stressing-

对

Yep

改善睡眠，提升专注力。

... getting better sleep, having better focus.

这些是社会随着世界发展而感受到的核心需求，而他选择了一个非常不同的角度，也就是冥想应用。

These are the kind of core needs that society was feeling, given the way that the world has evolved, and he came at it from a very different angle, well, a meditation app.

但我觉得你们在解决一些相同的问题，就像你说的。

But I feel like you guys were solving some of the same pain points and like you said-

完全同意。

Totally

……现在有个睡眠热潮。

... there's a sleep boom.

对。

Yep.

现在市面上有很多睡眠产品。

There's a lot of sleep products nowadays.

对。

Yep.

是的，就像我说的，你得同时把90件事做对。

Yeah, again, like I said, you've got to get 90 things right at the same time.

而且时机上，我不知道全世界是不是都一致认为现在大家比以往任何时候都更焦虑。

And the timing of, I don't know where this collective agreement in the world is that everyone's more stressed out than ever right now.

我不知道这种共识从哪来的，但这是人们需要帮助解决的问题。

I don't know where that comes from, but it's a problem that people need help with.

你这么说是因为你不相信吗？

Do you say that because you don't believe that?

还是当你说“我不知道这是从哪来的”时，你的意思是——

Or when you say, "I don't know where that comes from," are you saying-

哦，不是

Oh, no

……你是不同意这个说法，还是你也同意？

... you don't agree with that or you also agree with it?

我不知道是政治原因，还是环境原因。

I don't know if it's political, I don't know if it's environmental.

我不知道——

I don't-

哦，你不知道原因。

Oh, you don't know the cause.

好的，明白了。

Okay, got you.

我不知道这压力是从哪来的，但每个人都在说“我压力好大”。

I don't know where this thing is coming from, but everyone's just like, "I am so stressed."

“我快要抑郁了。

"I'm teetering on depression.

我需要帮助。”

I need help."

不知为何，现在似乎比以往任何时候都更需要缓解这种压力。

For some reason, it seems more than ever that this idea around getting relief for this stress is so important.

而且，是的，我也不知道为什么。

And again, yeah, I don't know.

重力毯流行过一阵子。

Weighted blankets were around for a while.

那些做重力毯的人，看到你们这么快就取得了他们想都不敢想的成功，他们是什么感受？

And how did people feel who made weighted blankets and never saw 100th of the success that you guys found very quickly with it?

他们是鼓励你们，觉得“太好了，这下能推向市场了”，还是有点嫉妒你们，因为你们把这个概念真正商业化，让它走进了主流视野？

Were they encouraging you because they're like, "Great, now this is going to market," or were they sort of jealous of you guys for just taking the concept and really commercializing it and making it mainstream?

对，我也不知道。

Yeah, I don't know.

有几个开公司的人给我打电话，他们说：“天哪，太感谢你了。

A few people called me that had companies, and they were like, "Oh my God, thank you so much.

你把我们的销售额翻了三倍，还把这个品类做大了，现在人人都知道了。”

You tripled our sales, and you grew the category, and now everyone knows about it."

“接下来就看消费者更喜欢哪一家了，真的谢谢你，谢谢你，太感谢了。”

"And it's just up to the consumer which one they like better, and thank you, thank you, thank you."

也有其他人写文章骂我们，觉得我们像魔鬼一样，偷走了……

Other people wrote articles calling us, they thought we were the devil that stole...

其实这玩意儿根本没有专利，也不是什么发明。

It was like there was no patent, there was no invention.

它就是对大家特别好，人人都喜欢，而且看起来确实对每个试过的人都有帮助。

It was just this thing that is really great for people and everyone loves, and definitely it seems like it's helping everyone that tries it.

我倾向于乐观地看待这件事，就像我们只是——

I like to have an optimistic view of it, of just like we just-

……我们只是有了这个东西，很多人想要，我们讲了一个不同的故事，结果为一个全新的市场细分打开了一个全新的使用场景。

... we just have this thing that a bunch of people wanted, and we told a different story, and that opened up a brand new use case for a whole new market segment.

但这种事在商业里经常听到。

But you hear that in business all the time.

有个产品本来是用来做某件事的，然后突然发现，哎，它还能这样用，服务一群新的人，然后就火了。

There's a product that exists that's being used for one thing, and it's like, "Oh, wait, that can also be used in this way for this new set of people," and it takes off.

我能去一下洗手间吗？

Can I actually go to the bathroom?

当然可以。

Sure.

好的。

All right.

趁他去洗手间，这个播客目前没有赞助商。

While he goes to the restroom, this podcast is sponsored by nobody.

我们的赞助商几天前刚撤了第二季的赞助，所以我们得找个新赞助商。

Our sponsor pulled out for season two just a few days ago, so we've got to find a new sponsor.

在那之前，就好好享受这无广告的播客吧。

Until then, enjoy the ad-free podcast.

如果你是想上节目或者想向一群创业者推广的赞助商，给我发邮件，puri.sean@gmail.com。

And if you're a sponsor looking to get on the show or get your message in front of a bunch of entrepreneurs, email me, puri.sean@gmail.com.

如果你是想面向我们听众的赞助商，我们每月下载量超过10万，还在增长，请联系我。

And if you are a sponsor looking to get in front of our audience, we're doing over 100,000 downloads every month and growing, let me know.

我们有一大批听众，包括创业者、商务人士，还有想赚钱的人。

We have a big audience, entrepreneurs, business people, people looking to make money.

我们随时欢迎合作。

We are open for business.

好的。

All right.

我们上完厕所回来了。

We're back from the bathroom break.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

我们开始吧。

Here we go.

好的，我想最后总结一下，我有两件事想留给大家。

Okay, so I wanted to basically round out by, I have two things that I like to leave people with.

第一件事是你提到了这个蜡烛，我真的很想知道它是什么。

The first is you mentioned this candle, and I really just wanted to know what it is.

所以你能用一分钟介绍一下这个蜡烛吗？

So can you give me the one minute on what this candle is?

因为我得去看看。

Because I've got to check this out.

当然可以。

Totally.

我刚刚有个特别有趣的想法，我看到了星座相关的东西，其实我一生都是星座的超级粉丝。

So I just had this really funny idea about, I saw the astrology thing happening, and I've actually secretly been a huge fan of astrology for my whole life.

我姐姐有很多关于生日和出生日期的书，讲的是出生那天意味着什么。

My sister had all these books about birthdays and what it mean to be born on your birthday.

我有个想法，如果把那些关于生日星座的解读文字印在蜡烛上会怎么样。

I had this idea about what if you took this whole astrology text around what it means to be born on your birthday, and we put those on candles.

所以我们做了365支蜡烛，一年每一天都有对应的。

So we have 365 candles, one for every day of the year.

你买自己生日那天的那支，我们会给你完整的解读，还有你的优势和劣势。

You buy the one that's on your birthday, and we give you basically this whole reading, and then we give you strengths, weaknesses.

就像什么“魅力狮子日”之类的。

It's like the day of the charismatic lion or whatever.

背面还有三段文字，写得挺棒的，准确描述了出生在那一天意味着什么。

And then there's three paragraphs on the back that has a pretty awesome, accurately describes what it means to be born on your day.

你说的“准确”是什么意思？

And what do you mean by accurately?

因为我不信这个。

Because I'm a non-believer.

好吧，那只是——

Okay, so just-

你看，我觉得你错了。

See, I think you're wrong.

所以——

So-

我觉得你错了。

I think you're wrong

所以，两天前，或者我不知道，36小时前，我女儿出生了。

... so two days ago, or I don't know, 36 hours ago, my daughter was born.

我的第一个孩子出生了——

My first child was born-

你得跟我多说说。

You've got to tell me more

9月8号。

... September 8th.

我人生中最疯狂的一天。

... craziest day of my life.

我会给你寄一根蜡烛。

I'll send you a candle.

我会给你寄一根蜡烛庆祝一下。

I'll send you a candle for it.

所以，有趣的是，我们显然在医院里，周围都是医生，一切都讲究科学。

So, the funny thing is, we're obviously in the hospital, and there's these doctors, and everything is science.

他们做化验，问问题，一切都讲究科学。

They're taking labs, they're asking questions, everything is science.

然后他们却说，"哦，处女座宝宝"，你懂那是什么意思。

And then they're like, "Oh, Virgo baby," you know what that means.

我是处女座。

I'm a Virgo.

他们不只是随便聊聊。

And they're not just making conversation.

我能感觉到他们真的相信这个。

I could tell they totally believed this.

是真的，对。

It's real, yeah.

所以我就把那归到那些神神叨叨的东西里去了。

And so I bucketed that in the hocus pocus land.

我从来没信过那些，但昨天听他们那么说，我注意到他们是真的信。

I never put any stock into it, but it caught my attention yesterday when they were saying this, that they really believe.

而且我们当时也在给她起名字，她叫Blush。

And we were also naming her, so her name is Blush.

然后我们就在查——

And so we were looking up-

太棒了。

Awesome

……名字的来历。

... the etymology of a name.

然后我们就看到了这个，查了她中间名的来历。

And then you see this thing where we looked up her middle name.

她的中间名是阿拉妮。

Her middle name's Alani.

我查了它的含义。

I looked up the definition.

上面写着：“一个勇敢、有魅力的女孩，等等等等。”

It was like, "A brave, charismatic girl who blah, blah, blah."

这些美好的描述，我当然希望是真的。

All these amazing things that obviously I want to be true.

但我也有些怀疑。

But I'm also a little skeptical.

这会不会只是像幸运饼干一样，给我一句好听的话？

Is this just a fortune cookie telling me a nice positive thing?

你说准确，我就有点怀疑了。

When you say accuracy, I question that.

你说的准确是什么意思？

What do you mean by accuracy?

我的回答是，这有什么关系呢，对吧？

My answer is, what does it matter, right?

这是一种方式——

And this is a way-

所以你是支持安慰剂那种做法的，对吧？

So you're down with the placebo style thing, correct?

你是这个意思吗？

Is that what you mean?

我前几天读了一篇文章。

I read an article the other day.

首先，我不是说占星术是安慰剂，这是对所有占星爱好者说的。

One, I'm not saying astrology is placebo, for all the astrology people out there.

但我前几天读到一篇文章，它提出了一个很有说服力的观点，说在给病人开真正的药之前，不先给他们安慰剂是不道德的，因为安慰剂效果最强，成功率也最高。

But I read this article the other day that made an incredible case that it is unethical to not give patients the placebo before they're actually prescribed the real thing, because it is the most powerful with the most success rate.

而且基本上没有副作用。

And no downsides, essentially.

而且没有副作用。

And no downsides.

所以就像——

And so like-

有道理。

That makes sense

再说，当我们讨论产品和什么有效时，关键是，世界上最有力量的东西是什么？

... and again, when we're talking about product and what works, it's like, what's the most powerful thing in the world?

是故事。

It's a story.

当你拿起某样东西时，你会怎么做？

And what do you do when you pick up something?

你会想，好吧，水。

You're like, okay, water.

你为什么选那种水？

Why do you choose that water?

智能水。

Smartwater.

哦，这个能帮我解决这个和那个问题。

Oh, this is going to help me with this and this.

这是你给自己讲的故事，也是你对自己许下的承诺。

It's a story that you tell yourself, and it's a promise that you make to yourself.

每次你接触一个物品，你拿起它、选择它，心里会说：“好，今天穿蓝衬衫。

Every time you interact with an object, you're picking it up and you're choosing it, and you're like, "Okay, blue shirt today.

这就是我想要蓝衬衫的原因。”

This is why I want the blue shirt."

你在心里给自己讲这个故事。

And you're telling yourself this inner narrative.

对。

Yes.

这非常强大，而且有一种东西，就像你有一个口头禅或祈祷词一样。

That is incredibly powerful, and there is something where you have this idea of a mantra or a prayer.

不管你在跟自己说什么，只要你在跟自己说关于自己的任何话，那很可能就会成真。

Regardless of what you're telling yourself, if you're just telling yourself anything about yourself, it's going to probably come true.

所以占星术，有两件事。

So astrology, so two things.

我会先从讲故事和神话的角度来解释为什么占星术很有趣，然后再从科学的角度来看，可能确实有些道理。

I'll go down the storyteller, mythic answer of why astrology is really interesting, and then the scientific answer, where there actually might be something there.

好的，对。

Okay, yeah.

说来听听。

Give it to me.

第一点，还是那句话，你告诉自己的故事很可能最终会实现。

Is one, again, the stories that you tell yourself probably will end up happening.

当你遇到一个能讲述关于你自己或某件事的特定故事和承诺的物品时，这力量非常强大。

And it's super powerful when you are presented with an object that tells a certain story about yourself or the thing and the promise.

当这个承诺实现时，你就会开始相信它，这就形成了一个正向的循环。

And when that comes true, you start to believe it, and it's a reinforcing positive cycle.

所以当你说“我是狮子座”的时候，你很有魅力，也很有激情。

So when you say, "Oh, I'm a Leo," you're charismatic and passionate.

每次我看到我的蜡烛，我就想，哇，我得有魅力、有激情，因为那就是我。

Every time I look at my candle, I'm like, boom, I got to be charismatic and passionate because that's who I am.

那就是我。

That's who I am.

然后我打电话给别人，邀请他们吃晚饭，突然间我就变得有魅力、有激情了。

And then I'm calling someone, and I'm inviting them to dinner, and then all of a sudden, I'm charismatic and passionate.

这从哪儿来的？

Where did that come from?

是我DNA里天生就有的，还是占星术出生时形成的？

Is that some DNA inside of me that was formed around the astrological birth of me?

还是说这只是我给自己讲的一个故事？

Or is that a story that I'm telling myself?

这重要吗？

Does it matter?

我觉得这不重要，因为事情已经发生了，而且还挺管用的——

I don't think it matters, because it's happening, and it's working-

结果就是那样发生了。

The result happens

……而且它一直持续着。

... and it's sticking around.

占星术存在的时间比大多数宗教都长。

Astrology has been around for longer than most religions.

人们一直对它痴迷不已。

It is something that people are continually obsessed about.

现在它越来越流行，但话说回来，你可以说它没有科学依据什么的，但一个能让人们眼前一亮的故事，确实有某种魔力。

For right now, it's becoming more and more, but again, yes, you can say it's not rooted in science and whatever, but there is something magical about a story that makes people sort of light up.

而那一刻，我觉得是一个人一天甚至一生中最重要的时刻之一，就是那种纯粹的幸福时刻。

And that moment, I think, is one of the most important moments in someone's day or in a life, is that moment of just pure bliss.

我觉得有些东西可能不好，或者会让人走上吸毒之类的路，但我觉得大多数情况下，如果它是积极的、无害的，并且能强化你自身的一些优点，那我觉得这很棒。

And I think there are some things where that's bad, or it'll lead to something like drugs or whatever, but I think for the most part, if it's positive and harmless and reinforcing some good aspect about yourself, I think it's amazing.

所以当人们跟我提起占星这件事时，他们会说：“我每天都会点亮那个东西，它会提醒我自己最好的一面，也会提醒我需要关注和努力改进的地方，这让我感觉特别好，而且闻起来也很香。”

And so when people hit me up about the astrology thing, they're like, "I light that thing every day, and I am reminded about the best parts of myself, and I am reminded about the parts of myself that I need to focus on and work on, and it just makes me feel really great, and it smells really good too."

归根结底，我觉得它有帮助，是件好事，而且我不在乎它为什么有效。

At the end of the day, I think it helps, and I think it's good, and I don't think it matters why it works.

我就是觉得它有点用。

I just think it kind of works.

这让我很有共鸣。

That resonates with me.

我对此有一个信念，那就是我所相信的一切都只是一个故事。

I have a belief around this, which is that everything that I believe to be true is just a story.

我其实不知道什么是真的，什么不是。

I don't actually know what's true and what's not.

而且没人知道。

And no one does.

问题是，如果本质上一切都是故事，对吧？

And the question is, if everything is essentially a story, right?