如何掌握讲故事的艺术

嗯，先生，就是我说的那些乱七八糟的事。

Well, sir, is when I blah, blah, blah.

那结尾呢？

And what's the end?

结尾就是发生了这件事。

Well, the end was when this happened.

好的。

All right.

不错。

Cool.

听起来你有了开头、中间和结尾。

Sounds like you got a beginning, middle end.

你知道发生了什么，也大致勾勒出了故事框架。

You know what happened and you roughly hit the outline.

挺好。

Cool.

也许现在可以开始写了。

Maybe now start writing.

所以，像说话一样写作是一个重要的原则。

And so write like you talk is an important principle.

然后另一件事是，有些细微差别是不同的。

And then the other thing is there are nuances that are different.

比如说，在写作时，我会用很多括号，因为你在说话时不能那样做，基本上你可以在写作时打破第四面墙，但在说话时，就像我说，我们当时正往这边走。

So for example, in writing, I'll use a ton of like parentheses because you can't do that in, you can break the fourth wall basically when you write, but when you talk, it would be like me saying, so we were going this way.

你知道，我们总是走那条路，对吧？

You know, we always take that route, right?

这就像，那是你说话时的括号。

It's like, that's a parentheses when you're talking.

当你写作时，这其实容易得多。

When you're writing, it's actually much easier to do.

但当你说话时，你可以用停顿，一个戏剧性的停顿。

But when you're talking, you can use pauses, a dramatic pause.

写作里怎么表现那种戏剧性的停顿呢？

How do you do a dramatic pause in writing?

这其实挺难做到的。

It's kind of hard to do.

你得靠换行或者其他方式来营造这种感觉，对吧？

You have to like use like line breaks or whatever, right?

你可以试着用一下这种手法。

Like you gotta try that.

所以说这两者用到的一些技巧会有点不一样，但在我看来，百分之八九十的核心内容都是相通的。

So some tools are a little bit different, but I would say 80 to 90% of it is the same to me.

那你有没有摸索出关于节奏把控的什么心得呢——就是关于

Have you learned anything about the pacing of

是指一段故事吗？

a story?

就是那种，你怎么把情节拉长或者压缩的处理方式？

Like the, how you drag it out or compress it?

那在不同平台上会有变化吗？

Like does that change for different platforms?

你是怎么考虑这一点的？

How do you think about that?

当然。

Definitely.

我觉得还有一个误区，就是认为越短越好。

You know, I think another misconception is shorter the better.

就像你知道的，太长了就会让人觉得无聊。

Like, you know, too long is too boring.

而且实际上，任何内容都可以有任意长度。

And actually, you know, anything could be any length.

关键就在于，它有多长，取决于它能保持多久的趣味性。

It just says, you can only be as long as it is interesting.

这是一条通用的原则。

That's a general rule.

它的长度只能取决于它是否有趣。

It can only be as long as it is interesting.

如果你能坚持写那么长，比如一篇很长的博客文章，但全程都很有趣，那就太棒了。

If you can go this long, you know, a long, you know, blog posts, but it's interesting all the way.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

这才是合适的长度。

That's the right length.

不过，你始终得搞清楚自己在观众心里的信任度或者认可度到底有多少。

However, you should always try to understand like, what is your level of credibility or buy in with the audience?

所以在播客里，你可以稍微发散一下思维。

So here in a podcast, you can kind of riff in a podcast.

比如你可以说，嘿，咱们之前在休息室聊的那个话题，或者像刚才请了萨姆·奥特曼那样。

You can be like, dude, what, know, we could talk about something we said in the lobby or be like, you oh, just had Sam Altman on.

他有没有保镖？

Does he have a bodyguard?

比如我们可以完全不聊写作，就聊五分钟。

Like we could just not talk about writing for five minutes.

完全没问题。

Totally fine.

不过，如果是面对网上的陌生受众，你最好有个特别吸引人的标题和第一句话，能立刻抓住他们的注意力，并且内容要跟标题对得上，因为你跟他们之间还没有建立起信任感。

However, if it's cold traffic on the internet, you better have like an amazing headline and a first line that's gonna hook people and be right about the match that what the headline was, because you don't, you don't have that reputation with them.

所以，如果你清楚你的受众对你的信任程度，你就可以灵活地绕着话题聊，或者非常直接、马上切入正题，第一时间提供价值来吸引他们。

So if you know your audience's level of buy in with you, you can kind of dance around subjects versus being very direct and immediate and try to provide value right away to hook people right away.

所以你知道，TikTok是个刷视频的平台，如果前零点九秒没意思，用户就划走了。

So, you know, TikTok is a platform where you're swiping like, and if it's not interesting in the first like zero point nine seconds, you're gone.

所以在TikTok上，大家一上来就直接切入正题。

So on TikTok, you see people right away trying to say a thing.

而在播客里，人们往往会先闲聊几句，建立那种默契感，因为听众不会在前三十秒就切掉播客。

On podcasts, you'll see people shoot the shit and build, you know, there's a chemistry thing because people aren't gonna swipe away from the podcast in the first thirty seconds.

这通常也不是大家听播客的方式。

It's not usually how people consume podcasts.

所以你得了解你用的平台，也得清楚你的受众是谁。

And so you gotta know your medium and you gotta know your audience.

他们的接受程度有多高？

What's the level of buy in you have?

你觉得

How do you think

故事的钩子该怎么设计？

about the hooks for a story?

我注意到并深入研究过喜剧演员的一个特点是，他们建立背景信息的速度有多快。

Like, one of the things I've noticed with comedians and really studied is how fast they're able to build context.

他们大概用六到八个词就能搞定，而有些人却啰嗦个不停，像无人机一样嗡嗡响。你如何把听众带入故事，这个钩子非常关键。

They can do it in like six to eight words, where some people just go on and on and on and on and on at drones, and that hook of how you bring people into the story is super important.

我同意。

I agree.

那么，到底什么是钩子呢？

However, So what is a hook?

所以，钩子基本上就是你开场要说的第一句话，目的是立刻抓住对方的注意力。

So a hook is basically, it's the first thing you're going to say, try to hook their attention.

没错。

Great.

我觉得对于会听这期内容的人来说，你们可能稍微研究过一点文案写作，或者至少留意过那些在推特上突然火起来的人。

I think actually right now for the type of person who's going listen to this, you probably have studied a little bit of copywriting maybe, or you've got to pay attention to what like, oh, this person's blowing up on Twitter.

他们到底做了什么？

What do they do?

哦，他们就是，你知道的，写那种长帖，第一句通常是类似这样的：这里有个难以置信的故事，讲一个中国移民怎么拿着一个普通的顶针，最后把它变成了十亿美元之类的。

Oh, they like, you know, they write their threads and the first line of their thread is like, here's the unbelievable story about how this, you know, Chinese immigrant took a simple thimble and turned it into $10,000,000,000, whatever.

所以我就觉得，这种听起来特别夸张的开头，你不得不选啊。

So I'm like, unbelievable sounding hook that you're like, oh, you have to pick.

简直就是最大号的标题党。

It's like maximum clickbait.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得钩子其实有点被高估了，真正被低估的是框架。

I actually think that hooks somewhat overrated, underrated is frames.

那什么是框架呢？

So what's a frame?

框架就是你对一个想法进行包装，这个想法本身可大可小，具体取决于你用的框架。

So a frame is you take an idea, and an idea can be this big or it can be this big depending on the frame.

比如我可以这样问：你知道这是什么吗？

So I can be like, you know, what's this?

我一时想不起特别好的例子，不过我们就拿刚才聊到的那个来说吧，哈桑·明哈杰是个喜剧演员。

I don't have a good example on top of head, but we'll do one that we just talked about, Hasan Minhaj is a comedy thing.

对吧？

Right?

我之前讲过他开场白里用的小故事。

I told a little story about what he's doing in his opening line.

所以我可以直接说，这就是他一开始的做法。

So I could just say, here's what he did at the start of his thing.

我可以说，从全球最顶尖的公众演讲者之一哈桑·明哈吉身上，你能学到哪些公众演讲的技巧。

I could say, here's what you can learn about public speaking from one of the greatest public speakers in the world, Hasan Minhaj.

对吧？

Right?

所以我可以用同样的内容，也就是关于如何从一个低姿态切入的话题，但我可以把它包装成：这不仅仅适用于喜剧演员。

So I could take the same content where I'm gonna talk about starting with a low status thing, but I can put it in the frame of this is not just for comedians.

其实当你参加晚宴，需要做个自我介绍却完全不知道说什么好时，用这种方法就能避免让自己出丑。

This is actually when you're at a dinner party and you're supposed to make an intro and you don't know what the hell to say, this is how to not make an ass out of yourself.

你换个角度去理解。

You change the frame.

对。

Right.

所以我觉得，比起那种单纯靠抓眼球、强行吸引注意力的钩子，更重要的是思考如何给你的观点设定框架。

And so I think that more important than a hook, which is just like a grab you by the throat attention grabber is think about how you're gonna frame your ideas.

钩子关注的是你写出来的具体措辞。

Hooks are about the words you're gonna write.

框架关乎的是你的核心观点，以及你如何让它与听众产生关联，还有怎么把两个看似毫无关系的想法巧妙地串联起来。

Frames are about the idea and how you're gonna make that idea relevant and how you're gonna connect two ideas that seem unrelated to be related.

我认为真正优秀的写作者，强项在于构建观点的框架，而不是仅仅绞尽脑汁想出一句完美的“一句话钩子”来诱导别人点击。

The real great writers I believe are great at framing their ideas more so than like just coming up with that perfect one line hook thing that's gonna like, you know, just kind of trick the person into clicking.

确实如此。

Yeah.

咱们来点具体的。

Let's get super concrete here.

所以你在Clubhouse上写了一条超级火的帖子，这就是那种标准的框架写法。

So you wrote a super viral thread on Clubhouse and this was the standard way to do a frame.

开头写着：（一）Clubhouse，生存危机；（二）时间价值比，咱们来 brainstorm 一下。

So it says one parenthesis, clubhouse, existential threat, number one, time to value ratio, let's let's brainstorm.

你一看就觉得，全是行话、大词儿。

And you're like jargon, fancy words.

不是的。

No.

但那不是我写的。

But I wasn't me writing it.

那是别人写的。

That was somebody else.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

我不喜欢这个。

I don't like it.

感觉像是随便凑出来的，没有故事线，结果反响也不太好。

It like brainstormed like no storyline and then it didn't do that well.

然后你接着说，所以……

And you come in, you're like, so dot dot dot.

大家都觉得 Clubhouse 是下一个风口，但我觉得它会失败。

Everyone seems to think Clubhouse is the next big thing, but I think it's gonna fail.

我是这么想的，事情大概是这么发展的。

Here's how I think it all goes down.

对。

Yes.

你为什么选这个？

Why did you choose that?

所以如果你把这两个放在一起比较，比如在你的YouTube视频里，把它们并排展示出来，这样大家就能看清楚了。

So that if you compare the two and like on your YouTube, you should put these like side by side so people could see it.

另一个是这个人写的，叫Chris，他开发了一款类似Clubhouse的应用，当时火得一塌糊涂。

The other one was written by this guy, Chris, who created an app that was kind of like Clubhouse, went super viral.

那时候它叫Secret。

It was called Secret back in the day.

不知道你还有没有印象。

I don't know if you remember this.

就叫Secret，当时特别火。

It's called secret, went super viral.

他们融了大概一亿美元。

They raised like a $100,000,000.

创始人套现了一部分，买了辆法拉利。

The founder like sold some secondary, bought a Ferrari.

它就像是个爆款产品，火的时间特别短，然后就凉凉了。

Like it was like the hit product for like a very short window of time and then it died.

所以如果谁有资格说Clubhouse可能会失败，那这个人就是他了。

So if anyone has the credibility to say why Clubhouse might fail, that guy was actually the guy.

问题在于他说话干巴巴的，也不讲故事，满嘴都是像高中毕业才学的术语，什么“Clubhouse的存在主义威胁”、“时间价值比”之类的，听起来就像在做作业一样枯燥。

The problem was he was extremely dry, told no story, and just said used like very, like, you know, twelfth grade reading level jargon, like clubhouse's existential threat, the time to value ratio, like immediately felt like homework.

而我的观点是：大家都认为X，但我认为是Y。

Whereas my thing was everybody thinks X, but I think Y.

最关键的部分是：我是这么看事情发展走向的。

And the most important part was here's how I think it's going to go down.

而不是“我为什么是对的”。

Not here's why I'm right.

所以接下来会发生什么，基本上就像八卦一样。

So here's how it's going to go down is basically like gossip.

这就是讲故事。

It's story.

而“为什么”则是逻辑和理由。

Here's why is logic and rationale.

所以我才那样写。至于这条推文后来能吸引两千万人阅读，是因为我写得几乎像电影剧本一样。

So that's kind of why I wrote it that way was, and then the rest of the thread, the reason this thread got like 20,000,000 people to read it was because I I wrote almost like a screenplay.

我可没说什么Clubhouse有五大问题。

I was like, I didn't say here's the five problems with Clubhouse.

我写的是，你是Clubhouse的创始人。

I wrote, you're the founder of Clubhouse.

首先，那当然没问题。

First of all, fuck yeah.

你赢了。

You're winning.

大家都在聊你的应用。

Everybody's talking about your app.

你的应用很酷。

Your app is cool.

坎耶都在私信里跟你联系了。

Kanye's in your DMs.

风投们都在往你身上砸钱。

VCs are throwing money at you.

然后我把这个设定好了。

And I set it up.

对吧？

Right?

就像这样，这是铺垫部分。

Like that's the setup.

这就是你现在的处境。

That's you right now.

而且说实话，如果你在读这段内容，你会发现这跟大多数科技圈推特上的写作风格不太一样。

And already, you know, if you're reading that, this is not how most business tech Twitter writing goes.

那些推文通常像是在比拼智商，而我当时只是在讲一个故事。

Most business tech Twitter writing goes is that it's an intelligence contest and I was telling a story.

所以我觉得，这就是它成功的原因。

And so, you know, that's why I think it worked.

要是我写成那种试图展现自己拥有九千智商的高人形象，效果肯定就不一样了。

I think if I had written it with the, you know, me trying to be the 9,000 IQ guy in the room, it would not have worked.

所以看到有人说我现在的状态是在搞什么智力竞赛，我就想，行吧，我才不玩那套。

So when you see people say that I'm writing now and I'm like, alright, I'm not gonna do intelligence contest.

我会试着完全按照艾伦·索金说的那样去做。

I'm gonna try to do exactly what Aaron Sorkin said.

核心就是意图和障碍。

There's intention and there's obstacle.

我会把我说的话都包装成故事的形式。

I'm gonna frame what I'm saying in terms of story.

我会把重点放在叙事框架上，然后说我的写作还是让人觉得挺没劲的。

I'm gonna focus on the frame, and say that my writing still is just like, yo, this is lame.

你觉得问题出在哪儿？为什么读起来会觉得干巴巴的，或者缺了点什么

What do you think is going on there that makes it feel dry or like it lacks a

那种推进感呢？

sense of momentum?

其实道理是一样的，喜剧虽然好，但并不是每一句都得是笑话；讲故事虽然棒，但也并非每篇内容都需要一个故事。

Well, in the same way that comedy is great, but not every line should be a joke, storytelling is great and not every piece of content needs a story.

所以我觉得其中一个挑战是，我把那篇写成故事了。

So I think one challenge is like, I wrote that one as a story.

效果很好。

It did great.

但这并不意味着我网上发的所有内容都是剧本式的故事。

That doesn't mean everything I write online is like screenplay story type of thing.

那种写法在那种情况下很管用。

That worked in that situation.

不是所有情况下都管用的。

It's not gonna work in every situation.

所以你得知道有哪些工具，以及什么时候该用它们。

So you gotta know like the tools and when to use them.

如果你只是想开门，锤子可不好使。

Hammer's not good if you're just trying to open a door.

有时候你需要的是钥匙。

Sometimes a key is what you need.

所以这是第一点。

And so that's the first thing.

别硬塞进去。

Don't just force it in.

第二点是，你可能需要多练。

The second thing is like, you probably need reps.

怎么说呢，我也不太确定。

Like, I don't know.

我做过很多次了。

I've done this a lot of times.

那不是我写过的第一个故事。

That wasn't the first story I've ever written.

所以如果你觉得，好吧，我要把讲故事练得更好，那得有心理准备。

So if you're like, cool, I'm gonna get better at storytelling, be prepared.

比如讲一百个故事，从最尴尬的开始，慢慢练到不尴尬。

Like tell a 100 stories starting with maximum cringe and get to not cringe.

对吧？

Right?

但确实需要一百个。

Like, but it's gonna take a 100.

你得预期要试一百次，而且是一百次有质量的练习。

Expect that it's gonna take a 100 stabs at this and specifically a 100 intelligent reps.

所以，就去做吧。

So it's like, do it.

然后下一个故事，你得想想，我哪里还能做得更好？

And then the next one you have to be like, what could I do better?

比如，我的开头有点弱，或者节奏拖得太长，又或者我觉得没什么重点。

Oh, my hook was a little weak there or, know, it droned on too long or I don't really have a point.

也许这个故事根本不该用讲故事的形式。

Maybe this shouldn't have been a story.

也许它适合换成别的体裁。所以每练一百次，你都要问自己：这次比上次好在哪一点？

Maybe it should have been something And so 100 reps for each one, you try to say, what's one thing I could do better than last time?

就这一点。

Just one thing.

没错。

That's it.

然后你就继续往下做就行。

And then you just keep going.

如果你能完成一百次这样的练习，我敢打赌你的故事一定会很出彩。

And if you could do a 100 of those, then I bet your stories will work.

不会显得生硬，因为你会通过这一百次练习掌握这项技能。

It's not gonna it's not gonna feel forced because you'll learn the skill through those 100 reps.

这就像是MrBeast常说的那句话：总有人问我，你是怎么做YouTube的？

This is the MrBeast ism of he's like, everybody asks me, like, how do you do YouTube good?

我的回答永远都一样。

He's like, I tell them all the same exact thing.

先做一百个视频，而且每个视频都要比上一个做得更好。

Make a 100 videos and every video make something better than you did before.

随便什么都行。

Any well, anything.

具体是什么并不重要。

Doesn't even matter what it is.

只要比上次好一点点，做一百次，然后回来找我。

One thing better than four, do a 100, then come back and talk to me.

他说会有两件事发生。

And he's like, two things happen.

首先，没人会真的去做。

First of all, nobody does it.

他们都只是想要一个现成的答案。

They all wanted just like some answer.

他们根本没打算真正去动手做。

They had no intention of actually going and doing the work.

而那些真正去做的人，之后根本不需要再来找我。

And then of the few people who actually do the work, they never need to talk to me again.

做到第一百个的时候，他们自己就搞明白了。

By the hundredth one, they figured it out.

他们做得很好。

They're doing great.

你知道，他们再也不会回来要建议了。

You know, they never come back for advice.

这就是为什么这是给别人的完美建议，因为它是真的，而且如果你真的照做了，也省得我们俩麻烦，你懂吧。

That's why it's the perfect advice to give someone because it's true and it saves both of us the hassle, you know, if you actually followed it.

对。

Yeah.

你从《Storyworthy》这本书里学到了什么？

What did you learn from Storyworthy?

《Storyworthy》是一本很棒的书，作者是个老师，他好像拿过二十次讲故事比赛的冠军，那个比赛叫Moth Storytelling，我之前都不知道这是什么，不过无所谓了。

Storyworthy is an amazing book by this like teacher guy who's like the 20 times storytelling champion of the moth storytell I didn't even know what this thing was, but whatever.

如果你在某个领域是冠军，我就稍微留意了一下。他写了这本书，书里主要就是讲怎么讲好故事。

If you're the champion of something, I paid a little bit of He's got this book and in the book, it's basically how to tell better stories.

我觉得吧，这本书还是值得一读的。

I would say, you know, probably worth reading the book.

他有一个观点我特别认同，就是“赌注”。

He's got one thing that I really took, which was stakes.

他说，每个好故事都需要有赌注。

So he's like, every great story needs stakes.

意思是，故事要有意图和障碍，但如果你不把人物如果得不到想要的东西会失去什么讲清楚，那故事就不会太吸引人。

Meaning if the story is intention and obstacle, but if you don't make it clear what's at stake for the person if they don't get it, then the story's not gonna have very not be very compelling.

所以，你知道的，当你讲故事的时候，比如说这个故事，它不需要有很高的风险或重要性。

So, you know, when you tell a story, let's say it's the, and it doesn't have to be high stakes.

就像他说的，其实他还提到另一件事，叫做‘度假插曲’。

Like it doesn't, he's actually very, again, he, the other thing he says is like, don't tell, like, it calls it like vacation romp.

也就是说，不要只是讲一个你在那次派对上度过的美好夜晚的故事。

So it's like, don't just tell a story about this great night you had this party.

因为没人会在乎这些。

Cause like nobody cares.

没人想听你讲度假的事。

Nobody wants to hear about your vacation.

也没人想听你吹嘘大学时参加的那个酷炫派对。

Nobody wants to hear about your cool college party you went to.

说白了，这些故事根本就没意思。

Like just fundamentally, those are bad stories.

第二点，一个好故事不能只是说：我在海里游泳，被鲨鱼咬了，然后我活下来了。

The second thing is like a great story is not just, was swimming in the ocean and a shark hit me and then I survived.

其实不需要那么极端。

Like it doesn't need to be extreme.

而且，如果不是那么极端反而更好，但你还是需要有风险。

And again, it's actually almost better if it's not, but you still need stakes.

那如果不是被鲨鱼咬，怎么制造风险呢？

So how do you have stakes even if it's not a shark biting you off?

他的回答是，风险来自情感。

His answer was the stakes come from the emotion.

所以只要你相信对方会有某种感受，故事就有了风险。

So as long as you believe that that other person was going to feel a certain way, then the story has stakes.

比如，我想用做球芽甘蓝来打动我妈妈，那风险就是尴尬，对吧？

So for example, if I'm trying to impress my mom doing the brussels sprouts thing, embarrassment is what's on the line, right?

我会感到尴尬，自尊心也会受挫。

Like I'm going to be embarrassed and my ego is going to take a hit.

所以只要你相信对我来说这是真的，那么当我真正讲出来、真正表达的时候，故事就会很有趣。

So as long as you believe that that's true for me, the story will be entertaining when it's proper, when I actually tell it, when it's actually delivered.

他还提到了另一件事，他说，故事到底是什么？

The other one he says is, he goes, what is a story?

故事就是五秒钟内的一个变化瞬间。

Story is a five second moment of change.

哇哦。

Woah.

这是什么意思呢？

What does that mean?

就五秒钟。

A five second.

他的意思是，你故事里讲的所有内容，最终都汇聚到那关键的几秒钟——也就是角色发生转变的时刻。我拿电影打比方，是因为大多数人脑子里没有那么多写作素材，但大家都看过同样的剧集和电影。

So he's like, you know, everything that you tell in the story comes to this one moment, this five seconds where the character is transformed, you know, just I use movies because it's easier that most people don't have like a big archive of writing in their head, but like we've all watched the same shows and movies.

每部浪漫喜剧基本上都是这个套路。

Every rom com is like some version of the following.

男主角是个花花公子，发誓绝不安定下来。

The guy's a player and he's never gonna settle down.

这就是电影的开头。

That's the start of the movie.

或者她是个事业有成的女强人律师，但从来没时间谈恋爱。

Or she's a high powered lawyer who's doing great in her career, but never made enough time for love.

这永远是故事的开端。

That's always the start of the story.

浪漫喜剧其实就两种套路。

There's only two rom coms.

对吧？

Right?

比如，她当时已经爱上他了。

Like, she was in love.

大家都以为她会跟他幸福地结婚。

They thought she thought they would get happily married.

结果他却伤了她的的心。

He broke her heart.

浪漫喜剧的开头。

Start of the rom com.

所以，猜猜看浪漫喜剧的结局会是什么？

So well, guess what the ending of the rom com is gonna be?

总是完全相反的情况。

Always the exact opposite of that.

如果她是个事业有成却没时间谈恋爱的女律师，现在她就会陷入爱情，然后干脆辞掉律师的工作，去开家面包店什么的。

If she was the high powered lawyer who never made time for love, she's now gonna be in love, and she's gonna actually quit her job as a lawyer and be like, open up a bakery.

对吧？

Right?

就像，电影最后就是那个结局。

Like, that's how the movie's gonna end.

或者如果他一开始不想安定下来，是个花花公子，到最后他就会反过来追她，然后向她求婚。

Or if he didn't wanna settle down and he was a player, by the end, he's gonna be chasing her, and he's gonna, like, propose to her.

对吧？

Right?

他最后肯定会想安定下来。

He's gonna wanna settle down.

所以啊，所有爱情喜剧的结局都这样。

So spoiler for all rom coms ever.

其实所有电影都是这个套路。

And it's actually all movies ever.

比如《虎胆龙威》，还有《侏罗纪公园》。

Die Hard, Jurassic Park.

你也可以做同样的练习。

You could do the same exercise.

看开头的一分钟。

Watch the opening one minute.

结局会是那个角色，与他当前的生活方式、信念体系或习惯截然相反。

The end is gonna be that character, the opposite of his current lifestyle or belief system or habits.

你知道的，斯克鲁奇讨厌圣诞节。

You know, Scrooge hates Christmas.

他喜欢圣诞节什么的。

He loves Christmas or whatever.

所有电影、所有故事其实都一样。

It's all every movie, every story is the same.

所以故事的核心就是那五秒钟，他们真正发生转变、彻底改变的那一刻。

So the heart of the story is the five second moment when they actually made the transformation, when they switched.

通常就是他们失去一切的时候，心碎的时候，跌到谷底的时候，被逼到绝路不得不勇敢的时候，反正就是那种时刻，对吧？

And it's usually when they lost it all, when they had the heartbreak, when they hit rock bottom, when they had no choice but to be brave because they were finally cornered, like whatever it is, right?

比如在《蝙蝠侠》里，他掉进那个洞穴，必须爬出来，而从来没有人成功过。

You know, in Batman, when it's like, he's in the cave and he's gotta get out and nobody's ever made it out.

我不记得你记不记得《黑暗骑士》或者某部蝙蝠侠电影里的这一段。

I don't if you remember this part of the Dark Knight or one of one of the Batman movies.

导师说，只有一个人曾经逃出来过。

And the mentor was like, only one person's ever got out.

他就问，他是怎么做到的？

He's like, how did he do it?

他说，那人没用绳子。

He's like, He didn't use the rope.

说白了，他就是没系安全绳直接跳了下去。

Basically, he jumped with no safety net.

所以那个决定性的五秒钟，就是角色爬上高处，然后解开绳索的那一刻。

And so the five second moment of change is the character climbs up the thing, takes off the rope.

如果这一跳没成功，他就得死。

If he doesn't make this jump, he's going to die.

但实际上，正是因为那样，他才完成了跨越，真正做到了。

But actually, because of that, makes the leap and actually makes it.

这就是转变的时刻。

That's the transformation moment.

所有的故事都是基于这一点，是的。

Everything is based all of stories yeah.

如果你不知道主角那个五秒钟的转变时刻，那你其实

If you don't know what's the five second moment of change for the for the main character, you don't really

才能讲好一个故事。

have a great story.

那这个原则怎么应用到公司的故事上呢？或者说完全不适用？

How does this apply or not apply to like the story of a company?

比如，我想讲一段经历，或者你想想那些公司，总爱说我们是从车库里起步的。

Like, I'm trying to tell the story for a passage or, you know, you think of all these companies, oh, we start in a garage.

一开始我们没钱。

We have no money.

这就是我们的信念。

This is what we believe.

对吧？

Right?

比如 Airbnb。

You have Airbnb.

还有像奥巴马麦片这样的品牌，以及布莱恩·切斯基，他会亲自去房源拍照。

You have like the Obama O's, and then you have Brian Chesky, who's like going to the houses and he's like taking photos with his own camera.

他就是在拼命努力打拼。

He's like doing the hustle.

这些创始人真的是打心底里相信。

It's like these founders really believed.

那我们怎么把这些理念应用到我们正在打造的项目中呢？

So how do we take these ideas and apply it to what we're building?

几乎所有硅谷公司的起源故事都挺相似的。

The origin story of all Silly Male companies is is similar.

那我们就拿 Airbnb 举个例子吧。

So let's take Airbnb for example.

那个关键的转折点是什么呢？

What was the, you know, moment of change?

Airbnb 的起源故事里，那个改变的时刻就是：我们当时穷得叮当响，对吧？

The moment of change the the origin story of Airbnb is we were broke jokes who had right?

就像浪漫喜剧的开头那样，我们一开始身无分文。

The beginning of the rom com, were broke jokes.

我们不仅没做成一家成功的公司，连个像样的点子都没有。

Not only did we not have a successful company, we didn't even have an idea.

所以说，我们简直是创业者里最惨的那种情况。

So like we were the worst situation for an entrepreneur.

没钱、没人、没想法、没尊重、没名声，什么都没有。

No money, no team, no idea, no respect, no reputation, no nothing.

对吧？

Right?

更糟糕的是，创始基因也不对。

Even worse, wrong founding DNA.

我们全是设计师。

We were all designers.

当时的说法是，想建科技公司就得是工程师，就得会写代码。

And the narrative was you gotta be an engineer to build a You gotta be a developer to build a tech company.

所以呢，那个转折点基本上就是他们——我觉得他们当时没钱了。

And so, well, the moment of change was basically they I think they had no money.

比如他们连房租都付不起了之类的。

Like they didn't have enough money to pay rent or something like that.

所以转折点基本上就是其中一个人冒出一个疯狂的想法，说嘿，要不我们把这儿的空间租出去？

So the moment of change was basically one of them had a crazy idea to be like, Hey, what if we rent out our space here for this?

城里正好有个设计大会。

There's a design conference in town.

要不我们给来参会的人开个民宿？

What if we create a bed and breakfast for people who are coming?

因为所有的酒店都订满了。

Because all the hotels are sold out.

我们连个像样的旅馆都没有，只有那种家庭式的小客栈。

The bed and breakfast, we don't have a hotel.

他们就说，要不就在这儿随便放个充气床垫凑合一下。

And they're like, well, we could just put an air mattress here.

大家听了都笑了，觉得这主意挺逗的，也就没太当回事。

And they laughed and they were like, whatever.

结果来了三个人，住下来，付了钱，还玩得很开心。

And then three people came, stayed, paid the money and had a great time.

他们心想，哇塞，这好像真能成事儿。

And they're like, holy shit, this might be a thing.

接着又出现了好几次这种‘哇塞’的时刻，对吧？

And then there's several holy shit moments, right?

比如有一次，我们又没钱了。

There's like, we ran out of money again.

所以我们搞了那个奥巴马欠债的系列故事。

So we did the Obama Owes serial thing.

他们讲了当时被Rocket Internet的Sandler兄弟打压的故事，对方克隆他们的公司，打算把他们搞垮。

They tell the story about when they were getting knocked off by the Sandler brothers of Rocket Internet, they were cloning their company and gonna kill them.

他就讲了这段经历。

And he tells that story.

就像我们面临那种生死攸关的时刻一样。

It's like, we, you know, face this life or death moment.

然后我们不得不做出决定，并且改变了策略。

And then we had to make a decision and we changed.

我们从害怕转变为下定决心，说好吧，我们要跟这些人竞争。

We went from being scared to being like, all right, we're gonna compete with these guys.

我们要打败他们。

We're gonna beat them.

也就是在那一刻。

And that's the moment.

这些小故事讲的就是这个。

That's what each of those micro stories is about.

我学到的方法是，每个人都有所谓的标志性故事。

The way I've learned this is you have what's called signature stories.

也就是说，你的标志性故事就是那三四五个故事，如果我只给你讲这几个，你就能真正全面了解我了。

So your signature stories are like the four or five stories that if I only could tell you these four or five, you would know everything there is to know really about me.

比如你的起源故事，像你在Rite of Passage的经历，你的起源故事是什么？

So for example, your origin story, like for you with Rite of Passage, what's the origin story?

我猜你当初创立这个，肯定不是因为日子过得太顺了。

Like, I'm assuming you didn't just create this because life was good.

你本来就已经很优秀了。

You already were good at everything.

所以，肯定有那么一刻，你觉得必须得做点什么。

And, know, there must have been some moment where you were like, I gotta do something here.

你能不能帮我梳理一下你的创业起源故事？

Will you help me improve my origin?

对。

Yeah.

现在告诉我具体是什么情况。

Give me what it is right now.

好的。

All right.

我当时在纽约的一家广告公司工作，而且我老板让我特别有压力。

So I worked this job at this New York advertising agency and I was super intimidated by my boss.

他身高大概一米九三，体格壮得像头熊。

He's like six'four, big beer.

他给人的感觉并不怎么热情友好。

He's just not like super welcoming guy.

他才华横溢，真的非常有才。

Super talented, super talented.

我当时工作表现也不太理想，他就把我叫到办公室去，当时我正在为Cardi准备一份提案PPT。

And I wasn't doing super well in my job and he sort of calls me into his office and I was working on a pitch deck for Cardi.

我当时拼命想表现得特别厉害之类的。

I was trying to be all impressive and stuff like that.

我在提案PPT里写，我们的创意将会非常震撼。

And I wrote in the pitch deck that the idea that we had was gonna be epic.

他当时就说，哎，这词儿可别乱用。

And he was like, yo, that is not a good word to be using.

他的意思大概是说，你又不是大学生了。

You're not He said something to the effect of you're not in college anymore.

我们这里不这么写。

We don't write like that here.

然后通过写那句话，他开始说，嘿，你真的需要提高你的写作水平。

And then through writing that sentence, he then started saying, hey, you really need to improve your writing.

你就是不擅长写作。

You're just not a good writer.

我当时就想，嗯，你知道，我在学校学过写作。

And I was like, well, you know, I tried learning to write in school.

我甚至不喜欢写作。

I don't even like writing.

我的整个工作就是写作，我得把它做好。

My whole job is writing, and I gotta get good at this.

那大概是十一月的时候。

So that was in like November.

然后到了十二月，我得到了加薪。

Then we go through December, I get a raise.

我当时想，天哪，这肯定会很棒。

I'm like, oh my goodness, this is gonna be great.

生活过得挺顺的。

Life's going well.

然后1月5号，我毕业才七个月，就被裁员了。

Then January 5, seven months out of college, I get laid off.

当然，我心里想，我被裁是因为我写作不行。

And of course, my head, I'm like, I got laid off because I'm not a good writer.

哎呀，我得学这破玩意儿，但我根本不喜欢写作。

Uh-oh, I gotta learn this crap, but I don't even like writing.

但后来我看到那些写作好的人，在网上混得风生水起。

But then I'm seeing all these people who are good at writing and they're just making moves on the internet and stuff.

所以我花了两年、三年的时间学写作，开始积累粉丝。

So I spend years, two, three years, and I'm learning how to write, I start building an audience.

那段时间，有人联系我，说，嘿，你挺擅长这个的。

And during that time, people reach out to me, they're like, hey, you're pretty good at this.

你能开始教我怎么做吗？

Can you start teaching me how to do it?

我当时就想，等等，这些可都是我自学来的。

And I'm like, wait, I learned all these things on my own.

那时候我是抱着一种绝望的心态，拼命想学会怎么写东西。

I had to figure these things out at a desperation for how to learn how to write.

后来这就发展成了《成年礼》，也就是因为这样

Then that led into Rite of Passage and that's how

公司就成立了。

the company got started.

好的，不错。

Okay, great.

那我们来一起打磨一下这个想法。

So let's workshop that.

挺好。

Cool.

好的。

All right.

那咱们回到故事的起点。

So let's go back to the origin.

故事得有开头、中间和结尾。

So there's a beginning, middle and end.

开头嘛，就是你浪漫喜剧的起始部分。

Beginning, you're a start of your rom com.

你有一份工作。

You're working in a job.

你说你最近过得不太顺。

You're not, you said you're not doing so well.

老板有时候让你挺难堪的，最后你还被裁了，这就像电影里的第一幕情节。

Your boss kind of embarrasses you and you end up getting laid off, act one of the movie.

我觉得可以把这部分再打磨一下，让它更出彩。

I think to make that part, just to make that part better.

所以我觉得你已经有这个元素了。

So I think you have the element there.

第三幕就是，你知道，第一幕就是，我不喜欢我的工作，我的工作也不喜欢我。

Act three is, you know, so we know act one is going to be, don't like my job and my job doesn't like me.

更糟的是，我的工作还不喜欢我。

Even worse, my job doesn't like me.

对吧？

Right?

第二部分就是，我做得不太好，有点尴尬，而且有点怕我的老板。

Second part is I'm not doing so well and I'm kind of embarrassed and I'm kind of intimidated by my boss.

很好。

Great.

非常能引起共鸣，非常讨喜，就是这样。

Super relatable, super likable, all that.

你有一个瞬间，在某个重要场合被特别尴尬地羞辱，比如被说像大学生什么的。

You have a moment where you got specifically embarrassed around the epic thing calling you like a college kid or whatever.

然后你就觉得，好吧，彻底绝望了。

And you're like, okay, hopelessness.

麦克斯·佩恩被裁员了。

Max pain got laid off.

挺惨的。

Cool.

我相信你当时肯定有不少感触。

And I'm sure you had some feelings about that.

第三幕就是，我现在拿几百万美元去教人写作，还在做播客采访我写作方面的偶像，他们都说，哥们儿，你太棒了。

Act three is now I get paid millions of dollars to teach people writing and I'm doing a podcast interviewing my writing heroes and they're like, dude, you're awesome.

我是你的超级粉丝。

I'm a big fan.

好，太棒了。

Okay, great.

所以我们就有了一个精彩故事的元素。

So we have the element of an amazing story.

我们到底该怎么把它变得更好呢？

How do we actually make it better?

对。

Yeah.

首先，你的第一幕里，你没有足够地去聚焦当时的痛苦、意图、障碍以及你那时的感受。

So the first part is your act one, you didn't focus on the pain enough or the intention and the obstacle and the feelings you had at that time.

比如，你当时说‘我过得不太好’。

So for example, you said I wasn't doing too good at the time.

然后你会想，不过后来我升职或者加薪了。

Then you're like, but then I got promoted or raised.

所以我也不清楚那到底是什么情况。

So I don't know what that is.

对吧？

Right?

你干脆把升职或加薪这部分省略掉算了。

You might as well leave the promotion or raise out.

这对故事没什么帮助。

It doesn't really add to the story.

这有点让人困惑，信息也互相矛盾。

It's been sort of confusing, conflicting messages.

对吧？

Right?

永远别让真相妨碍了好故事。

Never let the truth get in the way of a great story.

我们就从这点开始吧。

Let's let's start with that.

那为什么

So why did

你会觉得自己做得不好呢？

you not think you were doing well?

公司一直在琢磨，到底该怎么安排这个人。

The company was constantly trying to figure out what do we do with this person?

我真不敢相信发生了这种事，他直接把我叫进办公室跟我说：‘你得停止像杰夫·贝佐斯那样思考。’

I I can't believe this happened, but he literally brought me into his office and he goes, I need you to stop thinking like Jeff Bezos.

我当时就问他：‘你能解释一下吗？’

And I was like, can you explain?

他说：‘做好你的本职工作。’

He's like, do your job.

‘你只是个做销售的。’

You are a sales guy.

把重点放在这上面。

Focus on that.

我不想让你去操心媒体行业的未来以及它的发展方向。

I don't want you focused on the future of media and where that's going.

所以那里头 tension 挺大的，我和他也一直合不来。

So there's just a lot of tension there and he and I never really got along that well.

对。

Right.

所以，我觉得你可能会想，我打赌，如果你回想一下，回到记忆里，你可能会记得一些时刻，那些感觉和你最后会有的感觉完全相反。

So yeah, I think you wanna, I bet you, if you zoomed in, go back to the memory bank and you remember like any moments where you felt the opposite of how you're gonna feel at the end.

到最后，你会感到非常自豪，觉得自己完成了目标，克服了困难。

At the end, you feel really proud and you've accomplished and you've overcome.

但一开始，你可能会觉得尴尬，有点不自信，诸如此类。

But at the beginning you probably felt embarrassed, you know, somewhat insecure, whatever.

比如说，你可能会想，记得有个新来的家伙刚被录用，我在带他。

So for example, if you were like, yeah, remember there was this new guy that just got hired and I was training.

我当时想欢迎他，稍微培训他一下。

I was like trying to like welcome him and train him a little bit.

结果他比我先升职了。

And then he got promoted before I did.

我当时就想，是不是我做错了什么，或者，你知道，在我的绩效评估里，我记得有个优点类别，他只有三个词，然后缺点或者什么的，需要改进的地方特别多。

I was like, I'm doing something wrong or, you know, at my performance review, I remember there's a category for pros and he had like three words and then cons or whatever, needs like improvement was huge.

对吧？

Right?

像这样的小故事，我觉得能让你更真切地感受到那些时刻。比如你当时觉得自己表现不太好，那种感觉特别扎心，对吧？

A little anecdote like that, I think will like make that more real of what was the moments where you set, if you said I wasn't doing so well, that it really hit home for you, you know, something like that.

让我把刚才聊的所有内容总结一下，

Let me just wrap everything we've spoken about into what I'm gathering

我觉得核心就是浪漫喜剧。

is, it's the rom com.

我有开头，也有结尾。

I got my beginning, I got my end.

我希望它们之间能达到完美的阴阳平衡。

I want a perfect yin yang between them.

好吗？

Okay?

接下来我想做的，是铺垫那五秒钟的转变。

Then what I want, is I wanna build up to those five seconds of change.

所以我希望有一种情绪来引导这种变化。

So I want one emotion, lead up to that change.

那是紧张的时刻，事情发生转折。

That is the moment of tension where something pivots.

然后到了结尾，情况正好相反。

Then I get to the end, there is the opposite.

接下来我想做的是意图和结果，还有障碍。

And then what I wanna do is intention and outcome, obstacle.

意图和障碍。

Intention and obstacle.

谢谢。

Thank you.

所以我的意图是我想做好。

So my intention is I wanna be good.

我想把工作做好。

I wanna be good at my job.

我想被重视。

I wanna be valued.

我希望得到尊重。

I wanna be respected.

其实，我甚至可以把它上升到更高层面，比如我想成为一个有价值的人。

Actually, I could even bring it into like, I want to be a worthy human being.

我刚入职第一份工作的时候，心里就在想：哥们儿，你啥技能都没有啊。

And I'm in my first job, and I'm like, dude, you have no skills.

所以我就带着这种心态。

So I have that.

我就觉得，我的工作就是当个作家，但我老板觉得我写得并不怎么样。

And I'm like, my job is about being a writer and my boss thinks that I'm not very good.

所以现在我成了自己的障碍。

So now I'm my obstacle.

所以我大概明白你的意思了。

So that's sort of what I'm getting from you.

对。

Right.

对，没错。

Yes, exactly.

你说得太对了。

You nailed it.

接下来我们看这五秒钟。

Now let's go to the five second.

因为你刚才说的 basically 就是开头和结尾都挺不错的意思。

Because what you said was basically some version of you're like, the beginning was pretty good and the ending was pretty good.

后来我失业了。

The middle you were like, so then I got laid off.

然后我就开始琢磨，得把自己的写作水平提上去。

And so then I started thinking about, well, I want to improve my writing.

这听起来像是突然想通的。

Sounds like an arbitrary epiphany.

也许是哪位导师给了你启发，或者你在网上看到什么让你受鼓舞的内容，又或者某个晚上散步时你自己跟自己聊了很久，心想：要不就这样吧？

Maybe there was a mentor that told you something, or maybe you read something online that inspired you, or maybe you had a long talk with yourself on a long walk one night and you were like, you know what?

算了，对吧？

Screw this, right?

大概是某个时刻你下定决心，说自己一定要把这件事做好。

Probably a moment when you decided actually I'm going to get good at this.

这通常是每个故事里非常关键的一部分。

That's usually a very important part of every story.

是什么样的契机让你发生了转变？

Was like, what triggered the turnaround?

所以你想先说明这一点，然后再解释这部分。

So you wanna know that and then you wanna explain that part.

然后你基本上就是说，后来我变好了，一切都顺利了。

And then you basically were like, and then I got better and then everything was great.

这就好像，哇哦，哇哦，你快进得太快了，中间到底发生了什么？

And it's like, woah, woah, what do you, you fast forwarded the montage too fast.

到底是什么触发了这个转折？

Like what triggered the turnaround?

那你后来具体去做了些什么？

And then what'd you actually go do?

不用讲得太细，就是说说你一开始做了什么来让事情转起来？

And not like in a long specifics, but like what's the first thing you started to do to get momentum?

然后呢，你克服了哪些阻力？

And then what was like maybe some resistance you felt that you overcame?

因为你知道的，皮克斯有一套讲故事的原则。

Because like, you know, Pixar rules for storytelling.

不知道你有没有看过《心灵奇旅》，对，就是那部。

Don't know you've Yeah, seen 22, yeah.

里面最重要的一点，我不记得22号具体说了啥，但我记得有一句大概是：英雄不一定要赢。

The most important one, I don't know what the 22 say, but I remember one, which was something like the hero doesn't have to win.

观众喜欢英雄，是因为他们努力的过程。

The audience loves the hero because of the way they try.

这句话对我影响特别大。

And that was really important to me.

我当时就想，对啊，没错。

I was like, oh, that's right.

每一个逆袭故事之所以动人，都是因为主角付出了巨大的努力。

Every underdog story is lovable because of how hard they try.

如果一个人刚尝试某件事就立刻成功了，那这故事就不太精彩。

And if somebody just tries something and immediately it works, that's not a very good story.

而且观众也不会对他们产生共鸣，觉得没什么好同情的。

And you're not very like, you don't feel good for them.

所以你得说出你尝试了什么，感受到了哪些阻力，以及最后是怎么克服这些阻力的。

So you gotta say what you tried, what resistance you felt, and then how you overcame that resistance.

不用讲得太长，但得让人觉得真实。

It doesn't have to be a long thing, but you wanna make it feel real.

最后我想强调的是，我觉得每个人在讲故事时都可以做到的一点是：你不是在复述发生了什么事。

And the last thing I'm kind of emphasizing to you that I think anybody can do in their storytelling is you're not saying what happened.

你是聚焦于某些瞬间，通过一些能引起共鸣的视觉或听觉细节，来解释你的感受。

You're zooming into moments to explain how you felt with ideally some relatable visual or audio like moment.

所以我记得他跟我说过这样的话，那三个词我到现在都忘不了。

So it's like, I remember he said this to me and I'll never forget these three words.

他说了一些话，或者我记得当时环顾四周，发现周围根本没别人。

He said, you know, like whatever, some sentence or I remember looking around and you know, there was nobody else there.

就像托尼·罗宾斯，我是他的超级粉丝。

Like Tony Robbins, I'm a big Tony Robbins fan.

他在讲故事方面做得非常出色。

He does an amazing job telling his story.

他说，我记得当时坐在公寓里，去浴室一看，我正忙着洗碗呢。因为我以前的洗碗机坏了，所以只能把碗放进浴缸里洗。

And he's like, I remember sitting in my apartment, I looked in the bathroom and I was doing, had, because I used to do dishes in the bathtub because my dishwasher didn't work.

所以我得先在浴缸里打上肥皂。

So I'd soap up the bathtub.

他这么说，其实就是在表达自己觉得自己是个失败者。

And he's, all he's trying to say is I'm a loser.

那时候的我，确实挺失败的。

I was a loser.

现在我超级成功。

Now I'm super successful.

为什么？

Why?

因为我是托尼·罗宾斯，我找到了方法，你也可以。

Because I'm Tony Robbins and I figured it out and you can too.

但他得先让你相信他以前是个失败者。

But first he has to convince you that he used to be a loser.

不然的话，托尼·罗宾斯那套就说不通了。

Otherwise, the whole Tony Robbins stick doesn't work.

所以他就想，怎么才能让人相信我是个失败者呢？

So he's like, how do I convince somebody I'm a loser?

我可以说我混得不太好，或者我可以说我以前得在浴缸里洗碗，因为那样听起来就像个失败者。

I could say that I wasn't doing too well, or I could say that I used to have to wash my dishes in a bathtub because that paints a picture of a loser.

他说，我记得我当时就坐在那儿。

He's like, I remember I was sitting there.

他说，我当时坐在公寓里，因为没钱，家里连件家具都没有。

He says, I was sitting in my apartment and I didn't have any furniture because I didn't have any money.

所以我就只有一把椅子。

So I just had this one chair.

真的，我连个沙发都没有。

Like, I didn't have a sofa.

我就坐在那把硬邦邦的椅子上。

I had a hard chair that I used to sit on.

他说，那只是一把椅子。

And he's like, it was just a chair.

他还说，我记得当时放着那首歌，好像是那种唱‘我连个朋友都没有’之类的歌。

And he's like, and I remember the song was playing that was like, there's some song where he's like, I don't have a friend or something like that.

只有我一个人坐在椅子上。

It's only me in my chair.

他说，哥们儿，那就是我啊。

And he's like, dude, that's me.