我与十位亿万富翁共度48小时，这是我学到的。

这是一点。

That's one.

我注意到的第二点是什么？

What's the second difference I noticed?

第二点是

The second difference

顺便说一句，并不是所有人都有那种病态倾向。

is Not all them are psychopaths, by the way.

我跟马里奥有点往来，他就是其中之一。

I hang out with Mario a bit, who went.

马里奥是奥斯卡的联合创始人之一，那家公司市值四五十亿美元，但他完全不是那种人。

Mario, who's one of the founders of Oscar, which is like a 4 or $5,000,000,000 publicly traded company, not psycho at all.

你跟他聊过吗？

Have you talked to him?

一点都没聊过。

Not at all.

他在技术方面非常出色，担任首席技术官。我觉得首席技术官和技术大牛们

He is technically brilliant and the CTO, and I think the CTOs and the technical brilliant people

不过，他们也有首席执行官吧？

Well, the have CEO though?

他们带来的那种“超能力”稍微有点不一样。

They have a slightly different, like, superpower that they're bringing to the table.

但即使是像杰西·伊茨勒这样的人，我觉得他今年去了，以前也去过。他是个挺随和、冷静的人。

But even guys like Jesse Itzler, who I think went this year and has gone previously, he, you he's like a pretty nice, calm guy.

他那种冷静，简直像个精神病患者。

He's a psycho just like in being calm.

你明白我的意思吧？

Do you know what I mean?

他就像个追求刺激的疯子。

He's like an adventure psycho.

对。

Yeah.

所以他还是有点那种疯劲儿，挺有意思的。

So he is still has a little bit of that psycho, which funny.

好吧，不好意思，

Okay, sorry,

Jesse 业余时间喜欢干什么？

Jesse, go what'd do for leisure?

他参加一百英里的耐力赛。

He's like 100 mile races.

是的。

Yeah.

你可能会想，不对不对，他其实挺靠谱的。

You're like, No, no, he's cool.

他为人很淡定。

He's chill.

所以说，文化是靠行动体现的。

All right, so culture is an action word.

我觉得对大多数公司来说，文化就是墙上贴的一堆空洞的词，没人记得住，更别提日常会真的去践行了。

Okay, so I think for most companies, culture is just a set of generic words that are written on a wall that nobody remembers, and definitely nobody's using in their day to day action.

我想，如果你去看看那些产出特别独特、产品特别有辨识度的公司，是什么样的底层因素造就了这样的结果呢？

And I think that probably what if you look at the companies that I thought had the most unique outcome, most unique output of what they make, right, What is the unique input that that leads to that?

杰西·科尔就是个例子。

So Jesse Cole was there.

就是萨凡纳香蕉队的杰西·科尔。

Jesse Cole from Savannah Bananas.

我们之前在播客里采访过他。

We had him on the podcast.

他的故事简直不可思议。

You know, unbelievable story.

他把小联盟棒球彻底改头换面了。

He made minor league baseball essentially.

对吧？

Right?

原本就是那种字典里写得明明白白、没人当回事的东西，现在却有三百万人排队等票，八万人的球场场场爆满，社交媒体粉丝比其他所有棒球队加起来，包括洋基队，还要多。

Like, something that almost like in the dictionary definition nobody gave a shit about, and now has like a 3,000,000 person wait list for tickets, sells out 80,000 person stadiums, has more followers on social media than every other baseball team, including the Yankees combined.

所以很明显，他在产品上做了些了不起的事。

So, you know, obviously, he's done something magical with with the product.

那这个神奇的秘诀到底是什么？

So what's the magical input?

好吧。

All right.

他讲了这个故事。

So he's telling the story.

这个故事真的特别打动我。

This story was very inspiring to me.

他说，公司创始人和CEO心里早就有了一个愿景：我们要提供一种超棒的、极致的客户体验。

So he goes, okay, the CEO, the founder has some vision of how we wanna deliver this magical, wonderful, A plus plus customer experience.

但问题是，如果你的体验靠的是一个刚来九个月、薪水普通、从没在这样的环境里工作过的新员工，你怎么让他们也像你一样投入？

But how do you get if your experience is in the hands of, you know, some new guy who joined nine months ago and, you know, is getting paid a modest salary and, you know, they've never worked in an environment like this, how do you get them to care the way you care?

这真的特别难，对吧？

It's very, very hard, right?

我觉得这才是最大的挑战。

I think this is the biggest challenge.

我曾经见过Chipotle的创始人，他说：‘你要进入餐饮行业？’

I once met the founder of Chipotle and he said, Oh, you're going into food service?

只要能让一名最低工资的员工把顾客当成自家客人一样对待，做餐饮的人赚十亿美元都不是难事。

Anybody in food service can make a billion dollars if you can figure out to get a minimum wage employee to treat the customer as if it's their guest.

所以，关键就在于这种心态。

And so that's the mindset.

那具体该怎么做呢？

Okay, so how do you do it?

他说：你得做给他们看，而不是光说。

So he goes, You gotta show them, not tell them.

他说：我们有一个价值观，叫‘永远超越体验’。

He goes, So we have this value called, always plus the experience.

意思是，无论上次体验如何，下次我们都让它更好一点。

Meaning whatever the experience was, we plus it the next time.

他说，今年球员们刚来参加迷你训练营的时候——

So he goes, this year, our players were coming to, like, first day of mini camp.

就是在赛季正式开始之前。

So before the season even starts.

于是他把所有球员召集起来，和团队一起琢磨这事。

So they got all their players, and he goes, you know, he was thinking about it with his team.

他说，我们希望球员们为观众带来一场精彩的表演。

He goes, you know, we want them to put on a show for people.

我们希望他们能体会到，去参加一场活动是什么样的感觉。

We want them to know how special it feels to go to something.

我们希望他们让球迷感到特别，可我们自己却从没让球员感到特别。

We want them to make the fans feel special, but we never make them feel special.

于是他就这么做了。

He's like, so here we go.

他说，咱们啊，也不太确定。

He goes, we have, like, don't know.

他大概只有一周时间来筹备这事，或者差不多吧。

He had, like, a week to plan this or something like that.

他说，我们要把他们的第一天报到变成一场表演。

And he goes, we're gonna turn their first day orientation into a show.

于是他说，当他们从酒店下来的时候——

And so he goes, they get down from their you know, they're all the hotel.

我们要搞个仪式，

It's, you know, we're gonna report.

然后走一遍入职流程。

We're gonna go through orientation.

就像新员工第一天报到那样，球员们刚来，也是这么个状态，

So they're kind of like how anybody is from first day employee orientation, you know, a player for a first day player on the job.

那时候人就跟行尸走肉似的，机械地往前走。

You're just sort of, you know, zombie walking through through life at that point.

他说，他们下楼来了。

He goes, they come downstairs.

车子都换成了那种特别的巴士。

The cars have been replaced by this, like, special bus.

巴士周围还有警车开道。

The bus is surrounded by a police escort.

他们当时都懵了，心想这是怎么回事？

They're like, what?

他说，我们就只走大概1200英尺的距离。

And he's like, we're only going, like, 1,200 feet away.

因为有警察护送，你可以从这儿直接到那儿，毕竟你是特别的人。

You have a police escort to go from here to there because you are special.

你是明星，我们会像对待明星一样对待你。

You are a star, and we're gonna treat you like a star.

他说，当他们开始跟着警察护送队伍走的时候，我们总部所有的员工都站在外面。

And he goes, as they start going with the police escort, all of our headquarters staff and employees, we're outside.

我们都在欢呼。

We're cheering.

我们还举着标语牌。

We got signs.

你知道的，他说他们到了。

We got you know, he goes, they get there.

他们从那辆巴士里走出来。

They come out of the the the bus.

砰的一声。

Boom.

烟花开始绽放。

Fireworks go off.

我们往天上放烟花。

We got fireworks going into the sky.

我们开始给他们唱那首歌。

We start singing the song to them.

我们正在为他们唱歌助兴。

They're being serenaded by us.

他们沿着过道走过来。

They walk through the aisle.

他们走进了体育场。

They enter the stadium.

在体育场里，大屏幕上正播放着激励视频。

In the stadium, we have the motivational video on the screen.

他们看到自己小时候打棒球的样子，再看看现在长大的自己。

They're seeing themselves as kids when they were baseball players, and now they're grown up.

这个故事想告诉他们：你已经站上大舞台了。

And the story is telling them is that you made it to the big show.

你就在这个地方。

You are here.

他讲了个故事，说他怎么激励队员，结果队员们一脸懵：刚才发生了什么？现场连个观众都没有。

And he's like he tells this story about how he fired up his players and how they were like, what just happened for their and there's no fans.

连一个顾客都没有在这儿。

No customers are even at this.

他就是这样训练员工的。

This was how he trained his employees, basically.

他就是用这种方式欢迎新队员的。

This was just how he welcomed his new new players.

你觉得经过这番安排，他们第一天上班时走路的样子会不一样吗？

And he goes, you think after that, they're gonna walk a little differently for day one of doing their job?

他当然说，肯定会不一样。

He's like, of course, of course they will.

他们现在终于明白，我们说的‘表演’、‘体验’、这些价值观，到底意味着什么了——你得先身体力行，别人才会跟着做。

Of course they now know what we mean when we say you put on a show, you plus the experience, all these values, like, you gotta live it, you know, if you want them to live it.

我当时鸡皮疙瘩都起来了，真的。

And I was like, I had goosebumps, dude.

太棒了。

It was awesome.

Arie，能放一下Shaan嘲笑我在乎企业文化和价值观的那段录音吗？

Arie, can we cue the sound bite of Shaan making fun of me for caring about culture and values?

就在十天前，他还说：‘你真在乎这个’

It was literally ten days ago, he was like, You care

其实当时我们是这么说的：我过去两个月一直在搞企业文化，我觉得决定把诚信作为我们的核心价值观了。

about because we were like, I've been working on culture for like the last two months, and I think I decided that integrity is gonna be a culture for us.

事情根本不是这么发生的。

Is not how it went down.

我们一定会做得很好。

We're gonna really do a good job.

事情根本不是这么发生的。

That is not how it went down.

第二，总得有个开始吧。

Two, you gotta start somewhere.

你没觉得这跟Jesse Cole讲那个故事时，你感受到的完全不一样吗？

Didn't feel like how I made you just feel when Jesse Cole was telling that story?

萨姆，我就想要你这样。

That's what I want from you, Sam.

就得达到这个水准。

That's the level.

这才是标准。

That's the bar.

老兄，

Dude,

我没车，也没地方可去。

I don't have a bus or a place to go to.

弄辆车来。

Get bus.

找辆巴士来。

Get a bus.

我们没理由离开这个

We have no reason to leave the

去搞到巴士。

Get jitsu.

不管你需要做什么，就去做吧。

Whatever you gotta do, you do it.

这确实挺酷的。

It is pretty dope.

我是说，我真的在这上面花了很多心思。

I mean, is I I have been working really hard at this.

听到这个，我就觉得，哇，这简直是满分十分里的十分。

And when I hear this, I'm like, ugh, that's like a 10 out of 10.

我现在的表现大概也就两三分的样子。

I'm doing like a two out of 10.

我挺好奇他第一年跟现在这一年相比是什么感觉，但这确实挺让人受鼓舞的。

I wonder what it was like in year one versus the year whatever he's in now, but that that is, like, actually inspiring.

我完全认同用这种方式待人，哪怕有些做法在纸面上算不过来，但长远来看，绝对是有回报的。

I I do totally buy into treating people a certain way, and you do things that don't math out on paper, and it definitely does math out on paper eventually.

没错。

Right.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此。

That's so true.

对啊。

Yeah.

毕竟，这本来就是一笔开销。

Because, I mean, obviously, that's just a cost.

对吧？

Right?

那些烟花可不是免费的。

Those fireworks aren't free.

那辆公交车也不是免费的。

That bus isn't free.

那支警队护送也不是免费的。

That police escort isn't free.

投资回报率在哪？

Where's the ROI?

我没法把让人产生共鸣的回报算进Excel表格里。

I can't put into Excel sheet the ROI of getting people to care.

让人起鸡皮疙瘩的回报。

Of getting people goosebumps.

但就是感觉这么做才对。

But it just feels right.

直觉这东西很难说得清楚，这其实挺奇怪的。

Know, like intuition is a hard thing to justify within the which is very strange.

顺便说一句，MrBeast的整个团队也是这样，你跟Jimmy合作，做事方式就是不一样。

And it's the same thing, by the way, with all of MrBeast's crew, because it's like, you work with Jimmy, you're doing things a certain way.

他让你觉得自己是某个宏大、特别、不可阻挡的事业的一部分，是那种千载难逢的经历，所以人们会为此付出同样千载难逢级别的努力。

He makes you feel like you're a part of something huge, something special, something unstoppable, something that's gonna be, you know, something that's a once in a lifetime ride, and so people give a once in a lifetime level of effort towards it.

我挺好奇，那些业务比较枯燥的公司，比如房贷机构，是怎么做到这一点的。

I'd be curious to hear how some of the people who have more boring companies, like a mortgage lender, how they instill this.

因为你知道，借口就是扯淡，我们都有借口，而且都很烂。

Because, you know, excuses are assholes, and we all got them and they all stink.

这就是个借口。

This is an excuse.

但当我听到杰西的时候，我就觉得，行吧。

But when I hear Jesse, I'm like, okay.

那支棒球队。

That is a baseball team.

我觉得我能把它做得很酷。

That's I can make that cool.

保险经纪人是怎么做到的呢？

How does the insurance broker do it?

所以我很想知道他们到底是怎么做到的。

And so that would be curious to to hear how they do it.

当然了，像MrBeast那样做确实容易。

And, like, yeah, it's easy to do that when you're MrBeast.

我其实不这么想，但很多人听了可能会说：‘那当然了，毕竟你是MrBeast，拍视频又没压力。’

I don't actually think this way, but this is like an excuse that a lot of people listening to this would say is, yeah, it's easy when you're MrBeast and you have and you're making videos online.

这确实挺厉害的。

That's pretty cool.

那如果是卖笔记本的人呢？

But what about if you're selling notepads?

我也不太清楚。

I don't know.

就是那种特别普通的东西。

Like something boring.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得根本没什么不同。

I don't think it changes at all.

如果你觉得无聊，那别人也会觉得无聊。

Like if it's boring to you, then yeah, it's boring to them.

你觉得无聊吗？

Is it boring to you?

那个卖笔记本的人，他卖的真是笔记本吗？

Like, the guy selling the notepads, is he selling a notepad?

还是说他卖的其实是更深层的东西？

Or is he selling something much bigger than that?

对吧？

Right?

就像杰西·伊茨勒，他就那样。

Is it like, you know, Jesse Itzler, he's there.

他卖的其实是一本日历。

He sells a wall calendar.

一块贴在墙上的塑料片，卖三十块。

A piece of plastic you put on the wall, it's $30.

你可以这么看它。

Now you could look at that.

觉得不就是个日历嘛。

You could be like, it's just a calendar.

谁在乎呢？

Who cares?

或者你也可以想想，他跟我讲过一个故事，关于为什么他会对这件事这么投入。

Or you could be like, you know, he tell he told me the story, you know, about like people in his life that like, why did you get so into this?

他是怎么摆脱对金钱的执念的？

And how did you turn away from the money monster?

因为我觉得这才是他最了不起的地方。

Because that's what I think is really remarkable of him.

他跟房间里其他人都不一样，看起来特别踏实，根本不再拼命追逐什么了。

He's unlike the rest of the people in the room, like, he seems so secure that he's he's not still chasing something.

他就是在过自己想要的生活。

He's just like living the life he wants.

他说，我身边有些人离世了。

And he was like, you know, I had people in my life pass away.

你知道的。

Alright?

就是那些我特别亲近的人。

Like, you know, people very close to me.

我的家人一个个走了。

My family members pass away.

我才明白生命有多短暂，原来自己一直在浪费光阴。

And I realized how short life is and how I'm just pissing years away.

时间真的很宝贵，兄弟。

Years are important, bro.

我们这辈子没多少时间可挥霍。

We don't get very many of them.

他开始谈起年份了。

And he starts talking about years.

当他谈到年份时，就好像你手里握着金砖，这一生只剩下二三十块了。

And when he talks about years, it's like you're holding bricks of gold and that there's only 25 of them or 30 of them left in your life.

假如你只剩三十块金砖，每年还有一块从指缝里溜走，你真能眼睁睁看着它消失吗？

And like, if you only got 30 of these bricks of gold left and every year one melts right through your fingertips, like, you gonna let that happen?

我们得好好规划怎么过好每一年。

Like, we gotta be really intentional about how we treat our years.

你以为时间会自己跑过来吗？

And what do you think is just gonna happen?

还是你觉得得主动去安排？

Or you think you gotta plan it?

如果你真想安排，那你知道该怎么做吗？

If you're gonna plan it, guess what?

你得在墙上挂个超大的日历。

You need a big ass calendar on your wall.

对吧？

Right?

就像他带你走进那条路一样。

Like, you know, he takes you down that road.

那不是他在说话。

He didn't that's not him speaking.

是我在替他说话。

That's me speaking for him.

但我觉得，做任何产品，如果你没有强烈的初衷，也没有全力以赴去把它做到顶尖水平，那你显然没法把这种信念传递给其他人。

But I think with any product, if you don't have a big why behind it and you're not trying to play at a high level with it, then obviously, you can't instill that in anybody else.

所以各位听众，Jesse Itzler 已经来过我们播客好几次了。他在网上很有名，也很受欢迎。他是一位非常成功的创业者，创办并出售过几家公司，还娶了一位非常成功的女士，她创办并出售了自己的公司。

So for the listener, Jesse Itzler has been on our podcast a bunch of times, and he's famous and popular on the Internet for He a very, he was a successful entrepreneur, started and sold some companies, married a very successful woman who started it and sold the company.

我想问你一个问题，Shaan。每当我身边围绕着那些极具野心的人，比如那些亿万富翁，我就在想。比如我去过 Ramp，你知道的，Ramp 是一家信用卡公司，就像一家正在席卷全球的初创企业。

What I want to ask you, Shaan, is did you, whenever I'm around incredibly ambitious people, like the billionaires of the world, like for example, I've been to Ramp, you know, Ramp, the credit card company, which is like a takeover the world startup.

我去过他们的办公室。

I've been to their office.

每当我跟这些人待在一起，就会不自觉地被感染，心里想：第一，我也想要他们那样的生活；第二，他们的那种劲头真的会传染。

And whenever I'm around these guys, you start, like, getting these memetic desires where you say like, A, I want what they have, and B, their energy becomes contagious.

最成功的人，他们的能量就是会传染，让你忍不住想：我是不是也该更拼一点？

You know, the most successful people, the energy is contagious, where you're like, I should work harder.

我是不是也该这么做？

I should do this.

你要是跟埃隆·马斯克这样的人待一块儿，肯定也会想：得，我也得加把劲了。

You know, if you're around Elon Musk or something, you're gonna wanna, like, work harder.

但要是你跟杰西·伊茨勒在一起，你会觉得：他这才是对的路子。

But then when you're around a Jesse Itzler, you think he's doing it right.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

真正成功的人，不管走的是拼命型还是淡定型的路，他们的气场就是能感染别人。

Like like, people who are really successful and regardless if they're in the grinder or the calm path, they're contagious.

你有没有发现自己也被带得越来越上头？

Were you finding yourself getting like, you know, caught in the

兄弟，在这些场合我就像被风吹着的叶子一样，完全没方向。

Bro, I'm a leaf blowing in the wind at these events.

我跟其中一个人聊了聊。

I talked to one guy.

我当时就想，

I'm like,

我也该开个YouTube频道了。

I should start a YouTube channel.

我开始，我

I started I

跟另一个家伙聊了聊。

talked to another guy.

我说，桌游太酷了。

I'm like, board games are sick.

然后我跟Jesse聊了聊，我说，我得去跑个马拉松。

And then I talked to Jesse, I'm like, I need to run a race.

我怎么就不去跑步呢？

Why am I not running?

你知道吗，我太容易被影响了，而且我……

You know, I'm so easily manipulated and It's I

去参加这些活动，说实话，就像这个播客一样，真相并不是你跟人待二十八小时就能看到的，那也不是真正的真相。

go to these things, and the truth is, is like, just like this podcast, the truth is not, I mean, in your setting of hanging out with him for twenty eight hours, that is not actually the truth either.

你知道，每个人的生活背后都有一些你根本看不到的胡扯。

Like, you know, there's always bullshit on the back end that everyone's life that you don't truly see.

所以，没什么事真像表面看起来那么好，也没那么糟，但你有没有被某种生活方式吸引过？

So nothing's as good or probably as bad as it seems, but were you attracted to one lifestyle?

说实话，随着时间推移，我已经摸清了怎么参加这些活动。

I mean, the truth is over time, I've figured out how to do these events.

参加这些活动的关键就是对每个人都保持好奇，别轻易否定任何人。

And how to do these events is you are curious about everybody, so you should not write anybody off.

保持开放的心态。

Open mind.

第二点，你关注的是细节，而不是整体。

Second thing, you're looking for the parts, not the whole.

你要找的是那些我想从别人身上借鉴的小地方，因为没人是完美的，也没人能完全适合你。

So you're looking for what are the little elements that I wanna steal from my game because nobody's perfect on the whole, and nobody's the right match for you on the whole.

任何建议对你来说都不一定对。

No advice is right for you.

那只是对他们有用而已。

It's just what was right for them.

所以你要找那些让你有共鸣的、让你兴奋的、能激发你的部分——

And so you sort of you're looking for the parts that resonate, the parts that make you excited, the parts that

让你感兴趣的那些点。

make you interested.

你得留意这些地方。

You sort

把它们记下来。

of note those.

你会注意到这些，是因为你内心本来就有这样的东西。

You become aware of those because there's something in you that's that's there.

即使它让你产生了一些兴趣，你还是得琢磨一下，我是想要那种生活，还是只是想要那种生活方式？

Even after it sparks some interest in you, you have to sort of ask, like, do I want the life or the lifestyle?

对，没错。

It's like, yeah.

我特别想走在Target超市里，看着墙上的海报说，那上面的产品就是我做的。

I would love to walk through Target and be like, that's my product on the walls.

然后我听到他们为了达到那个状态付出了多少努力，我就觉得，这简直是个绝对不想碰的游戏。

Then I hear about what it took to get there, and I'm like, this is an absolute, like, deaf game to play.

我不想玩。

I don't wanna play.

我根本不想玩那种游戏。

I would not wanna play that game.

对。

Yeah.

我不愿意付出这个代价。

I'm not willing to pay that price.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

不错。

Cool.

我喜欢这个说法。

I like that.

你知道吗，吉米能做这么多了不起的事，是因为他是世界上粉丝最多的人。

You know, Jimmy's the you know, he gets to do all these incredible things because he's the most, like, followed guy in the world.

这确实太厉害了。

That's, I mean, incredible.

哇。

Wow.

真让人受鼓舞。

How inspiring.

但与此同时，他每天每时每刻都有四个助手跟着。

At the same time, he's got four assistants at every hour of his day.

他们总是说，你得

They're like, you gotta be

这么做。

doing this.

你必须这么做。

You need be doing this.

你必须这么做。

You need be doing this.

而且，他刚从这儿飞过来。

And, like, he just got off a flight from here.

现在又得从那儿再飞一趟。

Now he's gotta go on a flight from there.

我的意思是，这种生活方式我可不想要。

He's I mean, that is not a lifestyle I would want.

所以你得明白，你得真正渴望的是奋斗的过程，而不是拥有的结果。

So you gotta understand, like, you have to want the lifestyle of doing it, not the life of having it.

但人们总是很容易只想要拥有后的样子。

And it's too easy to want the life of having it.

那种情况不算数。

There's that doesn't count.

那就像我特别喜欢将死的那一刻。

That's like, I like Checkmate.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

我也是。

So do I.

但你真的是喜欢下棋吗？

But, like, do you actually like to play chess?

这点其实挺关键的，得搞清楚。

Like, know, that that's kind of a important distinction to make.

所以我一直追求的是那种生活方式，而不是结果本身。

So I'm always looking for the lifestyle, not the life.

因为如果你喜欢那种生活方式，你才会真正去做。

Because if you like the lifestyle, you'll actually do it.

只有坚持足够久，才能等到属于你的成果——这取决于你的天赋和运气。

You'll stick with it long enough to get whatever your results are gonna be based on, you know, your talent and your luck as as you go.

好的。

Alright.

咱们先歇一会儿，我得给你讲个故事。

Let's take a quick break because I gotta tell you a story.

我跟你说说，我第一次给团队发工资时的经历。

Let me tell you about the first time I tried to run payroll for my team.

我当时用的是家传统银行，你知道的那种。

I was using a traditional bank and you know the type.

界面特别卡顿。

It's got a janky interface.

整个系统跟2002年的报税表一样老旧，而且只在工作时间开放。

It's built like a 2000 and two tax form, and it was open only during business hours.

我一点击发送，系统就卡死了。

And I hit send and it froze.

他们把这笔交易标记了。

They flagged the transaction.

直接冻结了我的账户。

They locked my account.

让我等了45分钟，最后还说必须去线下分行处理。

They put me on hold for forty five and then they told me I got to visit my local branch.

就是从那天起，我开始找新的银行解决方案。

And that was the day I started looking for a new banking solution.

我问了几个创业者他们用什么银行，这才听说了Mercury。

After asking a few founders what they were using, I found out about Mercury.

现在发工资，点两下就搞定。

And so now my payroll is two clicks.

我能直接转账。

I can wire money.

我能支付账单。

I can pay invoices.

团队报销也能在一个干净整洁的仪表盘里全部处理。

I can reimburse the team all from one clean dashboard.

所以我所有公司都用它。

That's why I use it for all of my companies.

还有二十万初创创始人也在用。

And so do 200,000 other startup founders.

如果你也想升级你的银行服务，去mercury.com，几分钟就能申请。

And so if you're looking to level up your banking, head to mercury.com and apply in minutes.

Mercury 是一家金融科技公司，不是银行。

Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank.

银行服务由 Choice Financial Group 提供。

Banking services are provided through Choice Financial Group, Column, N.

Column National Association 和 Evolve Bank and Trust 均为 FDIC 成员。

A, and Evolve Bank and Trust members FDIC.

那第三个呢？

What about the third one?

好的。

Alright.

第三个。

Third one.

你不能用猪来超越猪。

You can't top pigs with pigs.

你以前听过这句话吗？

Have you ever heard this phrase before?

没有。

No.

那是什么意思？

What's that mean?

所以这是

So it's a

华特·迪士尼的故事。

Walt Disney story.

华特·迪士尼早期拍过一部叫《三只小猪》的电影。

One of Walt Disney's early movies was Three Little Pigs.

其实就是一部短片，他制作的。

And it was like a short basically that he made.

结果特别成功。

And it was really successful.

我记得他还因此拿了个奥斯卡奖什么的。

I think he won like an Oscar or something for it.

成绩确实非常好。

Won like it did very well.

所以发行商当然就去找他，说：‘沃尔特，接下来打算做什么？’

And so of course the distributor comes to him and he's like, Walt, what's next there?

沃尔特说：‘对，正在想下一步做什么。’

Walt's like, yeah, work on what's next.

对方说：‘嘿，我有个主意，再来点猪？’

He goes, hey, I got a tip, more pigs.

他说，但人家可是很认真的。

He's like but they're serious.

他们说，你得拍个续集。

They're like, you gotta do a sequel.

他就说，沃尔特有个习惯。

And he's like, Walt had this thing.

他说，我觉得猪拍猪，很难超越前作。

He goes, I don't think you can top pigs with pigs.

他一直坚信，如果想做出下一个伟大的作品，就不能简单地重复之前的做法。

And he had this belief that like, if I wanna do the next great thing, I can't just try to do that again.

事实上，后来他慢慢受到外界影响，还是拍了续集。票房还行，但他一直对那部电影没什么自豪感。

And in fact, he ended up sort of getting influenced over time to do a sequel, and it did okay, but he was never proud of it.

他觉得那片子简直烂透了。

He thought it was like, shit.

我真不该拍那部续集。

I I should not have done that.

我就知道。

I knew it.

我就知道。

I knew it.

用猪续写猪的故事，根本没法超越前作。

You can't top pigs with pigs.

他特别强调原创性，还有不断重塑自我。

And he had this emphasis on originality and reinventing yourself.

我觉得在这个圈子里，大概分成了两拨人。

And I would say at this group, there was kind of two groups of people.

一类是我所谓的投机者。

There was what I would call the exploiters.

就是那种在一个领域把公司卖了3亿美元的人。

You know, guy who sells a company in one space for $300,000,000.

你猜怎么着？

And guess what?

他又回到那个领域，创办了新公司。

He's back in that space again with a new company.

这次这家公司估值将达到三十亿美元。

It's gonna sell for $3,000,000,000 this time.

他对那个领域太了解了。

He knows the space so well.

他充分利用了自己深厚的知识储备，也许还有对那个领域的热情，这是一群人。

He's exploiting his deep his depth of knowledge and maybe his passion for the space, and and that was one group of people.

活动现场大概有十来个这样的人。

And there there's like 10 of them at the event.

另外还有十来个人，他们是在不断重塑自己。

And then there was 10 at the event that were just reinventing themselves.

我个人特别被这些重新出发的人吸引。

And I personally was very drawn to the reinventers.

也许就像你说的，有点浪漫吧。

Maybe it's just like a romantic, as you would say.

我觉得，这种生活方式本身更有一种浪漫的意味。

I think it's just more romantic of an idea for how to live life.

你能举个例子吗？

Can you give an example of one of them?

当然。

Yeah.

比如Airbnb的创始人乔·杰比亚，他就在现场。

So Joe Jebbia, the founder of Airbnb, he's there.

乔其实后来离开了Airbnb。

And Joe actually, like, he left Airbnb.

他最初创办了一家非常酷的公司，跟住宅设计有关，叫什么来着……

He initially started a company, a really cool company, but it was also in the kind of housing design What's

是叫Sancera吗？

it called in Sancera?

不好意思，我一时想不起来了。

I'm sorry.

让我想想。

Think.

其实就是后院的附属住宅单元。

And it's basically like backyard ADUs.

在加州，你是被允许在后院建这种小屋的。

If you're in California, you're allowed to have a backyard unit.

他们做的是一种预制的后院小屋。

Well, here's like a manufactured prefab backyard unit.

太棒了。

Cool.

当时做得不错，但乔重新定义了自己。

And it was doing well, but Joe reinvented himself.

在那次活动上，他做了一场演讲，全场都炸了。

So at this event, he gave a talk that just, like, brought the house down.

简直难以置信。

It was unbelievable.

现场有三十多人最后齐声喊‘USA，USA’，因为他讲了自己见特朗普的经历——结果他成了美国的首席设计官，而这个职位原本根本不存在。他想服务公众，想用自己最擅长的设计能力，打造令人愉悦的用户体验，但把这套方法用在了从来没人关心用户体验的地方：政府表格、政府网站，那些东西看起来就跟1986年第一版的电脑界面一样原始。

Literally, like, you had 30 people chanting USA, USA at the end because he told the story of his meeting with Trump where he ends up becoming the chief design officer for America, which wasn't even a role before Joe got there, and how he wanted to serve, and he wanted to use his superpower, which is design and creating this, like, delightful, like, user experience, but bring it to an area which had been, like, zero care about user experience, which is, you know, government paperwork, government websites, you know, things that literally look like the first version that was made in 1986.

他花时间、下功夫，真正提升了这些体验。

And, you know, actually, like, taking the time and care to, like, up up those experiences.

举个很简单的例子，这事已经公开报道过了，所以我可以聊一聊。

You know, very simple example was the, you know, people this has been talked about publicly, so I can talk about this.

以前要从政府退休，档案都存放在一个真正的矿洞里，全是纸质文件。

To retire from the government, the paperwork was kept in the mine, like an actual, like, physical mine, and it was paperwork.

这在六十年代是合理的，因为当时我们别无选择。

And that's what made sense in the sixties because that's all we had.

光是把文件从矿洞里取出来，再找所有该签字的人签字，光走路和跑腿就花了整整六个月。

It took like six months just literally physically walking around and fetching the paperwork and getting all the right people to sign off on it.

没错。

Exactly.

所以，假设你为国家服务了三十年，准备退休，结果却要经历这长达六到十二个月的繁琐审批流程才能办完退休手续。

So like, let's say you served, you know, thirty years, you're ready to retire, and now you go through this sort of brutal six to twelve month paperwork process to retire.

而且你看，这种事从来都不会是任何人的首要任务去解决。

And like, look, nobody's ever that's never gonna be a top priority for anyone to go fix.

所以你就面临这种公地悲剧式的问题，虽然没人赢，但也没人会因为修好这些东西而获得政治资本。

So you just have these, like, tragedy of the commons type problems where it's no but nobody wins political points for fixing these.

没人能从中赚到钱。

Nobody makes any money.

也没人能通过修复这些问题来让自己获利，所以这些问题就永远得不到解决。

Nobody enriches themselves by by fixing these things, And therefore, they just never get fixed.

所以像乔这样的人，就是看不惯糟糕的设计、负面的情绪和差劲的用户体验。

And so it takes somebody like Joe, who's just like, I just don't like seeing bad design, bad feelings, bad user experiences.

我觉得我们完全可以做得更好。

Like, I just think we could do better.

为什么我们就不能做得更好呢？

Like, why can't we do better?

他把这种理念带到了政府各个部门。

And so he's bringing that to all different types the government.

但他讲过一个特别精彩的故事，我想你一定看过他演讲。

But he told this incredible story, and I think you've seen him talk.

你跟他一对一聊天，就会发现他一开口，简直是个天生的演说家。

You just chat with him one on one, he's, you know, he's a quite When he talks, he's an absolute showman.

他身上确实有点政治家的气质，不过不是那种负面的，而是正面的那种——一上台就全开。

Well, he's got a politician energy a little bit where not in a bad way, but in a good way where he, like, turns it on.

他一上台，气场就全开了。

He turns it on.

我这位朋友讲话时真该停一停。

My man could use a pause.

我就这么说吧。

Let me just put it that way.

我这位朋友特别懂得把握停顿的节奏。

My man knows how to use a pause.

他在公开演讲方面简直太出色了。

I he is unbelievable at public speaking.

我看过他几次演讲。

I've seen him do a few talks.

我去过Airbnb的办公室，亲眼见过他讲话，后来还看过网上他的演讲视频。

I went to the Airbnb office and I've seen him talk, then I've seen YouTube videos of him talk.

去年我现实中见了他一面，当时我就想：你是不是讨厌我？

And then I met him in real life last year, and I was like, Do you hate me?

我心里还纳闷：你怎么这么能说？

I was like, Why are you talking?

我当时还以为你是个特别外向的人，结果他安静得不得了。

Like, I thought you were this like extroverted guy, and he was just incredibly quiet.

他特别安静，一点架子都没有。

He was just super quiet, very low key.

可后来我亲眼看见他一开口，那真是让人惊叹。

And then I've I've seen him turn it on, and it was like, that was pretty remarkable.

他其实是在重新塑造自己。

There was a so reinventing himself.

没错，他就是在重新定义自己。

So that that was a reinventing himself.

他干脆创造了一个世界上原本不存在的完美角色。

Literally created a the perfect role for him that didn't even exist in the world.

我觉得这就像一句话说的，别用猪去比猪。

And I thought that that was an example of, like, you can't top pigs with pigs.

他没法再用另一个科技创业项目超越Airbnb，但他用这种方式做到了——把他的天赋发挥到了极致，

Like, he couldn't top Airbnb with another tech startup, but he could top it by doing this incredible thing that's, like, takes his genius, applies it in the act of

在全国范围内提供的服务。

service at the nation's scale.

他到底设计了什么？

What has he designed?

你有看过吗？他给我们展示了一些东西，比如国家公园的网站那部分。

So have you seen he showed us some stuff, but have you seen so there's the retirement side of things, like the national parks website.

国家公园是美国最棒的成就之一。

National parks are one of the best things that America has.

大多数国家都没有这种免费又美丽的自然土地，任何人都可以去探索。

Most countries don't have this amazing, free, beautiful land that anybody can go and explore.

他重新设计了国家公园的相关内容。

And he redid the national park stuff.

他还改造了膳食金字塔。

He redid the food pyramid.

他特别关注像罗伯特·肯尼迪那样的理念，就是说，这简直太疯狂了。

So like he's big into like the Bobby Kennedy side of things about like, look, it's crazy.

我们整个国家的人健康状况都很糟糕，而且很多人都有慢性病。

We're so unhealthy as a country and we're chronically ill.

你再看看原来的那个食物金字塔，它可是你日常饮食的基础。

And then you go look at the original food pyramid, which was like the foundation of your day.

谷物、碳水化合物、面包、各种粮食。

Cereal, carbohydrates, bread, grains.

所以他们搞了个新的食物金字塔，还有那个新网站，用来向大家普及这方面的知识。

And it's like so they made the new food pyramid and the new website that kind of is educating people about that.

所以就是所有的接触点。

So just every touch point.

我觉得接下来还会有些大动作。

And so I think there's some more big stuff coming.

还有一件事，当时有个家伙在打电话，我们就跟他说，嘿哥们，我们这儿有禁打电话的规定。

Another one, there was a guy on the phone there, and we're like, Hey man, we got a no phone policy here.

不能随便接电话。

Can't just be taking calls.

不然的话，大家都会在这儿接电话了。

Otherwise, everybody would just start taking calls here.

这个活动真没意思。

This event sucks.

于是我们走过去，有人就说，嘿，你得让他接这个电话。

And so we walk over and someone's like, Hey, you gotta let him do this.

他今天正在以50亿美元的价格出售他的公司，是Brex的创始人。

He's selling his company right now today for $5,000,000,000 It was the founder of Brex.

结果他那天刚把公司卖了，卖了五十亿。

And so he had just sold his company same day for 5,000,000,000.

他人在我们这儿，但我觉得他心思早就飘到九霄云外去了，正自个儿偷着乐呢。

And he's just there, like, he's there with us, but I'm I I assume, like, part of him is just, like, somewhere in the clouds, you know, like, enjoying himself at a whole different level.

但你有没有看到

But Did you see

推特上有人在嘲笑那个？

people on Twitter, like like, mocking that?

是的。

Yeah.

你得有多没眼光，才去嘲笑一个刚以五十亿美元卖掉公司的家伙？

How big of a loser do you have to be to try to mock somebody who just sold the company for $5,000,000,000?

他不是才二十九岁左右吗？简直不可思议。

Isn't he like 29 years old or something insane?

对，他就是。

He's yeah.

我真没法理解怎么会有人这么做。

I can't even fathom how people do that.

这不是很滑稽吗？

Isn't that funny?

但几个小时后，他在桑拿房里跟我们聊，说他一直在调试Claude的代码，搞些新东西。

But a few hours later, know, he's in the sauna and he's telling us about like how he's just been tinkering with Claude code and how he's just building these things.

他基本上是通过AI重新学习编程，看看现在能做出什么新玩意儿。

And he's like relearning the code basically through AI and what can be built now.

他一直在问这些问题，而且现在他的下一家公司要进入一个全新的领域，做的事情也完全不同。

And he's really like asking these questions and he's going into a whole new space now with his next company and doing something completely different.

我当时就想，哇，就在同一天，他把公司卖了五十亿美金，结果他又重新从零开始，像个新手一样，抱着初学者的心态去学新东西。

And I just thought, wow, that is like the same day he sells his company for $5,000,000,000 He's already back to being a white belt at something new and full beginner's mindset with that.

这让我挺受启发的。

I was pretty inspired by that.

当时在那艘船上的人有好几个。

There was just several people that were in that boat.

所以你我都有创办公司的经历，而且我相信我们创办的所有公司，收入从几百万到几千万不等。

So you and I have founded companies, and I believe both of the, or all the things that we have founded have ranged from millions to tens of millions in revenue.

我们很多朋友也都属于这个范畴，算是非常成功了，但成功也分不同的层次。

And a huge percentage of our friends are in that category, which is like very successful, but then there's different levels of success.

你有没有注意到——这个问题其实挺自私的，因为我自己也想进步——那些公司做得还算不错的人，跟那些公司一飞冲天、大获成功的人，有没有什么明显的区别？

Did you notice, and this is a very selfish question for myself because I want to get better, did you notice any distinct differences for the people who had like relatively mild success companies versus these breakout home runs like companies?

比如说，我以前办HustleCon的时候，请过大概一百个人来演讲，我印象特别深。

So for example, I've met, you know, when I used to host HustleCon, I distinctly, we've had probably a 100 people speak.

那是我几年前办的一个会议系列，当时聚集的都是2014到2019年间最火的初创公司。

It was my conference series years ago, and it was all the hot startups from like 2014 to like 2019.

我记得跟WeWork的创始人之一聊过，不是亚当，是另一个叫米格尔的人。

And like, I remember talking to like one of the founders of WeWork, not Adam, but the other guy, Miguel.

我还跟Casper的创始人们聊过，还有好多其他了不起的公司，都是估值上百亿美元的。

And I remember talking to the founders of Casper and all these like great companies, and then a bunch of other companies that were in the billions of dollars.

我当时就想，你其实并没有比那些普通的成功人士更特别。

And I remember thinking, Oh, you're definitely not more special than like a normal successful person.

你只是坚持得久一点，或者运气好了一点，又或者根本没放弃——这本身就很了不起。

You just have been at it for a while, or there's been like some luck that happened your way, or you just didn't give up, which is special.

但偶尔我也会遇到其他人。

But then I've met, occasionally, I'll meet other people.

比如我见过Grammarly的创始人，记得跟那个叫马克斯的人聊天时，我就想，你真是个天才。

Like I met the founder of Grammarly, and I remember talking to this guy Max, and I was like, oh, you're just a you're a genius.

你确实比我强得多。

You are legitimately better than me.

奥卡斯的创始人马里奥也是这样。

Or same with Mario, the founder of Oscar.

和他聊天的时候，我就觉得，你智商绝对是顶尖那1%，而且胆子也够大。

When you talk to him, I'm like, Yeah, you're like 1% of IQ, and also you're fairly bold.

难怪你能成功，我们根本没法比。

So it's a no brainer why you're successful, and we will never be the same.

那你有没有注意到类似的规律？

And so did you like notice any trends like that?

当然有。

Yeah, definitely.

我的意思是，如果你想在数学里得到一个特别大的数，光改一个变量大概率是不够的。

I mean, I would say if you ever wanna get a really big number in math, you probably can't like you're probably not just changing one of the variables.

因为这些是乘数效应。

And so because these are multipliers.

对吧？

Right?

所以你是把好几个因素乘在一起，最后突然就得到了一个惊人的数字。

So it's like you multiply several variables together, suddenly you get this sort of gargantuan number at the end.

如果你只是把数字加在一起，根本没用。

If you just try to add numbers together, it doesn't really work.

这得靠乘数效应。

It's a multiplier.

那这些因素具体有哪些呢？

And so, for example, what are those what are some of those variables?

我觉得其中一个因素是韧性。

I would say one variable is endurance.

很多在那里的人早就把公司卖了，如果你看看那些卖了公司、套现五千万、一亿五千万、五亿美元的人。

So a lot of the people there had sold their company, and, like, if you just look at the people who had sold their company for, let's call it, 50,000,000, 150,000,000, 500,000,000.

很多时候，同一家公司现在估值已经涨到了五百亿美元。

A lot of times that same company is now worth 5,000,000,000.

他们只是卖得太早了，而且已经准备好下一段旅程了。

And it's like, they just sold early, and they were ready to move on.

那他们和那个真正身价五十亿、或者公司价值五十亿的人，区别在哪里呢？

And the what's the difference between them and the guy who's actually is worth 5,000,000,000 or their company's worth 5,000,000,000?

他们只是坚持得更久一些。

They've just stayed at it longer.

他们在公司里待了更长的时间。

They stayed in the company for a a longer period of time.

所以我觉得，非同寻常的耐力是其中一个因素。

So I would say an uncommon level of endurance is one.

我觉得存在一个乘以零的时刻。

I would say there's a multiply by zero moment.

几乎每家公司都有这样的故事，就是有人问你们有没有差点倒闭的经历。

So almost every company, there was like, tell me a story about when you almost failed.

他们都很乐意分享。

And they're like, oh, happy to.

我记得有一年圣诞节，我们差点撑不下去，因为当时发展得太快了。

I remember when it was Christmas time and we almost ran out of we were growing fast.

我们真的把现金用光了。

We actually ran out of cash.

我们根本没意识到，因为对库存规划一窍不通。

We didn't realize it because we were so dumb about inventory planning.

当时我们预计年收入能达到三亿八千万美元，却马上要破产了。

And so here we were, we were gonna $380,000,000 in revenue, and we were about to go broke.

我只剩下两周时间，必须去搞一笔贷款。

And I had two weeks left, and I had to go get a loan.

我得去筹钱，结果在截止日期前二十四小时，资金突然撤了。

I had to go get funding, and then the funding got pulled out within twenty four hours of the deadline.

我只好把房子抵押了，然后东拼西凑，一个接一个地找钱。

And then I personally, you know, like, mortgaged my house, and then I got this and then this and then this and this.

本来我们差点丢了进零售渠道的单子，被别的公司抢走了，但我直接拍板，保证砸三百万美元做电视广告。

Or, like, you know, we lost the deal to get into retail to this other company, but then I came over the top, and I guaranteed we would spend $3,000,000 on TV ads.

说来你可能不信，当时我银行里只剩三十万美元，但就是这笔钱，最终敲定了交易。

And by the way, I had $300,000 in the bank, but that sealed the deal.

然后我就拼命凑齐了三百万，这才让我们进了零售渠道。

Then I had to hustle to get the 3,000,000, and then that got us into retail.

现在我们每年零售额能做到五亿，反正就是这么大吧。

And now we do 500,000,000 in retail every year, right, or whatever it is.

每个创业故事差不多都是这样。

There's always a story like that.

每个人都有自己的坎坷路。

Everybody's got their own flavor.

他们避开了那些一败涂地的时刻。

And so they avoided the multiply by zero events.

你听Airbnb的乔讲他们的故事，我最大的感受就是：这家公司根本不该存在。

When you hear Joe from Airbnb talk about Airbnb, the number one takeaway I had is this company shouldn't exist.

简直就是个奇迹。

It's a miracle child.

在你提到的那五个关键时刻，任何一个都能要了它的命，换别人早完蛋了。

Like, it should have died at any of those five points you mentioned because that those are we're f'd.

就是那些关键的时刻。

It's over moments.

那种时候根本没法翻身，但你们挺过来了，这简直是个奇迹。

Like, there's no recovering from that, but you guys did, and that's miraculous.

要走到这一步，中间得有五个奇迹才行。

And there was, like, five miracles to get there.

所以我觉得，这又是一个奇迹。

So I I feel like that's another one.

所以，坚持是一点。

So endurance is one.

我觉得更重要的是别在该死的时候死掉，别被零乘以任何数给毁了。

I would say not getting multiplied by zero, not dying at a moment when you could have died.

或者，本来没谈成，结果最后又谈成了。

Or, like, you didn't get the deal, but then you did get the deal.

本来都打算选别人了，结果最后一刻，你们给翻盘了。

Like they were gonna go with somebody else, and at the last minute, you you flipped it.

这些关键时刻决定了那家公司的最终走向。

Like, and those turned out to be huge fork in the road moments for what the outcome of that business was gonna be.

我觉得是项目的选择。

I think project selection.

就像詹姆斯·克利尔这样的人。

So, you know, you know, like James Clear is there.

詹姆斯·克利尔的书在过去五年里是全球所有类别中销量第一的。

And James Clear has written his book is like the number one selling book in the world over the last five years, all categories.

不是只在非虚构类，也不是只在美国，是全世界所有类别里最畅销的。

It's not like just nonfiction, not like just in The US, everything.

为什么呢？

And why?

其中一部分原因是他提到过，他原本特别想写一本关于刻意练习的书。

And, you know, part of it is he talks about, like, this moment when he was making he's like, he really wanted to make the book about deliberate practice.

那才是他真正的洞见——你必须进行刻意练习。

He's like, that was actually the insight, was that you have to do this deliberate practicing.