章鱼的好奇生活

欢迎来到科学之谜。

Welcome to Mysteries of Science.

这是一档绝不让任何好谜题溜走的节目。

This is the show that never lets a good puzzle slip through its fingers.

今天从档案中，我们捕获了一个真正触手怪异的案件——章鱼。

From the archives today, we've reeled in a truly tentacular case, the octopus.

它有三颗心脏、会变色的皮肤，以及仿佛拥有自己意识的触手。

It's got three hearts, color changing skin, and arms that seem to have a mind of its own.

这种生物可不是傻瓜。

This creature is no sucker.

让我们深入探究。

Let's dive in.

你好，欢迎来到科学之谜。

Hello, and welcome to mysteries of science.

我是丹，我是《The Week Junior 科学与自然》的编辑，这是《The Week Junior》团队推出的月刊。

My name's Dan, and I'm the editor of The Week Junior Science Nature, which is the monthly magazine from the team behind The Week Junior.

我是迈克尔，代理副主编。

And I'm Michael, the acting deputy editor.

在这个播客中，我们调查奇怪的事件、奇异的生物和神秘的地点。

On this podcast, we investigate weird events, strange creatures, and mysterious places.

今天，我们将深入海洋，与世界上最神秘的动物之一——章鱼一起游泳。

Today, we're gonna dive into the deep and go for a swim with one of the world's most mysterious animals, octopuses.

我们还邀请了一些出色的专家与我们同行。

And we've got some amazing experts to come along with us.

是的。

Yes.

我们邀请到了亚伦·斯宾塞、希瑟·布朗宁和克里斯·帕克汉姆。

We're joined by Aaron Spencer, Heather Browning, and Chris Packham.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

我等不及了。

I can't wait.

让我们开始吧。

Let's dive in.

这些拥有八条手臂的伪装大师多年来一直让人类着迷，但我们对它们知之甚少。

So these eight armed masters of disguise have fascinated humans for years, but there is a lot we do not know about them.

例如，它们为何如此擅长伪装，以及它们究竟有多聪明

For example, why are they so good at camouflaging themselves, and just how intelligent

呢？

are they?

这里是《科学之谜》。

This is Mysteries of Science.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

迈克尔，章鱼。

Michael, octopuses.

我想先了解一下你对它们了解多少。

I wanna know how much you know about them first.

嗯，丹，你找对专家了。

Well, Dan, you've come to the expert here.

我可是关于章鱼的活百科全书。

I'm a walking encyclopedia of octopus knowledge.

比如，你知道它们有八条手臂吗？

For example, did you know they have eight arms?

迈克尔，我很高兴我们本周请到了一些专家来帮助我们。

Well, I'm certainly glad, Michael, that we've got some some experts to join us this week to help us.

是的。

Yeah.

因为显然，我们需要进一步深入更多内容。

Because, obviously, we I think we need to go a little bit further than that.

我还知道一个事实。

I know one more fact.

它们是无脊椎动物，也就是说，它们是没有脊椎的动物。

They are invertebrates, which means they're animals that don't have a backbone.

对了，我刚想起来，它们能伪装自己，对吧？

And something I've just remembered, they can camouflage themselves, can't they?

它们可以改变颜色。

They can change color.

你只是从五分钟前的开场白里刚记起来而已。

You just remember that from the intro about five seconds ago.

干得好，迈克尔。

Well done, Michael.

这是一个记忆游戏，由你来决定。

Memory game here in which you decide.

没错。

Exactly.

但在我们见到我们的专家之前，让我们先来了解一下第一个谜题。

But I think we've before we meet our our our experts, let's let's encounter the very first mystery here.

当我们谈论多只章鱼时，应该说 octopi、octopuses，还是别的什么？

When we talk about more than one octopus, do we say octopi, octopuses, or or something else?

我一直以为是octopi。

Well, I always used to think it was octopi.

但丹，你知道octopi是错的吗？

But, Dan, did you know octopi is wrong?

应该是octopuses。

It's octopuses.

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

那这个问题解决了。

So we got sorted on that one.

octopuses，我也听过一些专家称之为octopods，我挺喜欢这个说法的。

Octopuses, or I've heard also some experts describe it as octopods, which I quite like.

octopods。

Octopods.

听起来很酷。

That sound cool.

让我们欢迎我们的第一位嘉宾。

So let's, meet our first guest.

好的。

Sure.

我叫埃琳·斯宾塞。

My name is Erin Spencer.

我是一名位于佛罗里达州迈阿密的海洋生态学家和科学作家。

I am a marine ecologist and science writer based in Miami, Florida.

欢迎来到节目，埃琳。

Welcome to the show, Erin.

埃琳是新书《不可思议的章鱼》的作者，正如她所解释的，章鱼一直是她最喜爱的动物。

Now Erin is the author of a new book called The Incredible Octopus, and as she explains, the octopus has always been her favorite animal.

老实说，我最喜爱的动物一直都是章鱼。

Honestly, my favorite animal has always been the octopus.

几年前，我非常幸运地有机会写了一本关于珊瑚礁的书，书中介绍了我围绕珊瑚礁开展的一些研究，以及生活在礁石上的各种有趣生物。

So I was really fortunate to be able to write a book a few years ago about coral reefs and some of the research I've done around coral reefs and and some of the interesting animals that live on the reef.

因此，当我需要为第二本书构思一个主题时，选择变得如此简单。

And so when it came time to come up with an idea for my second book, the choice was so easy.

我一直以来都非常喜欢章鱼。

I have always loved octopuses.

我认为它们是海洋中最迷人、最美丽的动物。

I think they are the most fascinating, beautiful animals in the ocean.

所以这简直是我的梦想。

And so I it was a dream.

我可以尽情阅读更多关于这些我如此热爱的动物的资料，然后尝试与所有人分享我所学到的知识。

I just got to read more about these animals that I love so much and then try to share what I learned with everyone else.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

写一本关于章鱼的书一定非常棒。

That must be amazing to write a book about octopuses.

你在写作过程中学到了哪些新信息？

What sort of new information did you learn while you were writing?

写这本书最酷的一点是我们涵盖了章鱼的基本生物学知识。

So one of the coolest things about writing the book is we cover basic biology of octopuses.

我们谈到了它们的生命循环、如何觅食等等。

We talk about kind of their life cycle and how they find food and things like that.

而我书中最喜欢的部分是探讨各种不同的章鱼物种，以及它们究竟为何如此特别。

And then my favorite section of the book is actually looking at all of these different species of octopus and essentially what makes them so cool.

我有史以来最喜爱的章鱼是蓝环章鱼。

So my favorite octopus of all time is the blue ringed octopus.

我喜欢它们的原因是，它们是地球上最毒的动物之一。

Well, what I love about them is that they are one of the most venomous animals on earth.

如果你被蓝环章鱼咬了一口，那后果会非常严重。

So if you are bitten by a blue ringed octopus, it's gonna go really badly for you.

尽管它们只有高尔夫球大小，却能通过一口咬伤致命。

Even though they're only the size of a golf ball, they can absolutely kill a person with a bite.

它们有着醒目的蓝色环纹和黄色体色，会以此作为警告信号来吓退敌人。

And they have their big coloring, Their big blue rings and yellow coloring that they flash as a signal to stay away.

在动物界中，很多动物都会这样做。

So a lot of animals do this in the animal kingdom.

它们拥有非常鲜艳的外表。

They've got something really flashy.

想想那种非常美丽的海蛞蝓。

Think of like a really beautiful sea slug.

它们通常用这种鲜艳的体色向捕食者发出警告，让对方退避。

Oftentimes, they use that bright coloring as a warning sign to predators to back off.

当然，你永远不应该触碰或处理海洋中的任何生物，但如果你看到蓝色的章鱼，一定要给它留足空间。

So, of course, you should never touch or handle anything in the any animals in the ocean, but especially if you see a blue octopus, definitely give it its space.

关于蓝环章鱼的好消息是，它们主要分布在印度-太平洋地区，尤其是澳大利亚。

And the good news about the blue ringed octopus is that they they're found, like, in the Indo Pacific and especially in, Australia.

但它们并不具有攻击性。

But they are not, like, aggressive.

它们不会追着你跑。

They're not gonna chase after you.

对吧？

Right?

但当它们让你后退时，一定要照做。

But when they tell you to back off, make sure you back off.

记下了。

Noted.

如果我真看到蓝环章鱼，我一定会给它留足空间。

I'll definitely be giving the blue ringed octopus plenty of space if I ever see one.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Totally.

体型小，但致命。

Tiny but deadly.

我喜欢它们会闪现颜色的这个特点。

I love the idea that they flash colors.

这相当于给了你一个明确的警告。

Kind of gives you fair warning.

保持距离。

Keep away.

我很危险。

I'm really dangerous.

但我真的很想知道它们究竟是怎么做到的。

But I would really love to know how they actually manage that.

它们是怎么做到这种颜色闪现的？

How do they how do they do that flashing color trick?

你知道的，它们拥有非常发达的神经系统和大脑，能够感知环境并迅速做出改变。

You know, they got these great nervous systems, these great brains that are able to sense their environment and then change on a dime.

对吧？

Right?

所以它们使用一种叫做色素胞的结构，本质上就像一块能开合的肌肉。

So they can they use something called a chromatophore, which is essentially like a muscle that opens and closes.

把它想象成一个装满颜色的袋子。

Think of it as like like a sack of color.

对吧？

Right?

想象一下，如果你有一个装满颜料的气球。

Think if you had, like, a a balloon that was filled with paint.

如果你捏住气球口，就看不到里面的颜料。

And if you hold the balloon closed, you can't see the paint.

但如果你松开气球口，就能看到里面的内容。

But if you hold open the mouth of the balloon, you can see inside.

当这些肌肉打开那个含有墨水——抱歉，含有底下颜色的小孔时，你就能看到章鱼身上呈现出完全不同的颜色。

When those muscles, open that hole that has the ink or I'm sorry, that has the color underneath, then you can see a whole different color on

章鱼。

the octopus.

哇。

Wow.

解释得真好。

That's really well explained.

所以，基本上就像肌肉一张一合，通过这种方式，它们改变了自身的外观。

So, basically, just like a muscle opens and closes, and, in doing that, it causes them to change their, appearance.

那么，当它们这样做时，能变化到什么程度呢？

And so just how much do they transform when they're doing this?

我的意思是，你能给我们更多描述一下，章鱼变色时看起来是什么样子吗？

I mean, can you give us more of an idea about what it looks like when an octopus changes color?

当你观察章鱼在环境中变色时，它可以从明亮的白色变成与珊瑚一模一样的颜色，包括棕色、红色等各种色调。

When you watch an octopus change color in its environment, it can go from, like, bright white to looking identical to a coral with its different colors of browns and reds and all kinds of things.

它们甚至还能改变皮肤的纹理，以更好地融入环境。

And they can also even change their texture of their skin to blend in even further.

所以我认为，对我来说，看章鱼变色以适应环境的视频永远看不腻。

So I think that's the that for me, I never get tired of seeing videos of octopuses changing to fit their environment.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，如果我们的任何听众感兴趣，真的值得去看一下拟态章鱼的视频，它是一位出色的伪装专家。

And definitely, if any of our listeners are interested, it's really worth checking out, a video of the mimic octopus that is a really great camouflage expert.

这让我想起了电影《海底总动员2：多莉去哪儿》。

It reminds me of the, the film Finding Dory.

你看过这部片子吗，丹？

Have you seen that one, Dan?

那部皮克斯的电影，是《海底总动员》的前传兼续集。

The Pixar film that the the pre prequel sequel to sequel to Finding Nemo.

里面有一只叫汉克的章鱼，会变色，结尾字幕时有一段精彩片段，你能看到它在不同房间、不同地方突然出现，而它已经改变了颜色。

And there's an octopus in that called Hank who changes color, and there's a brilliant sequence, I think, during the end credits where you see all these different rooms, all these different places where he then appears out of nowhere having changed color.

如果你还没看过，我强烈推荐找来看看这部电影。

Definitely advise looking up looking that up and watching that film if you haven't seen it already.

是的。

Yeah.

这部电影太棒了。

It's an amazing film, that one.

我真的很想了解这种章鱼的智慧。

And I'm really interested to find out about this octopus smarts.

基本上，如果它们拥有如此惊人的大脑，它们到底有多聪明呢？

Basically, if they've got these amazing brains, just how clever are they?

大家好，我是希瑟。

Hi, I'm Heather.

我是一名哲学家，这意味着我从理论角度研究问题和概念，而不是从事实际的科学工作。

I'm a philosopher, which means that I study questions and concepts from a theoretical point of view rather than doing the actual science.

但我是一名科学哲学家，这意味着我对与科学相关的问题感兴趣；在我成为哲学家之前，我还当过动物园管理员，因此我花了很多时间与动物打交道。

But I'm a philosopher of science, which means I'm interested in looking at the questions that relate to science and before I was a philosopher I was also a zookeeper which meant that I spent a lot of time working with animals as well.

欢迎来到节目，希瑟。

Welcome to the show Heather.

希瑟写了一篇关于章鱼有多聪明的论文，特别是它们是否可以被视为有感知能力的生物。

Now Heather wrote an essay all about how smart octopuses are, and in particular, whether they can be considered sentient.

有感知的。

Sentient.

什么是感知的？

What is sentient?

这意味着，作为它们本身是一种有感受的体验。

What that means is that it feels like something to be them.

具有感知能力意味着你拥有对世界的观点和体验。

To be sentient means that you have a point of view and experience of the world.

所以石头是没有感知的。

So a rock is not sentient.

它没有自己的观点。

It doesn't have a point of view.

如果你踢一块石头，你不会伤害它，它什么感觉都没有。

If you kick a rock you don't hurt it, it doesn't feel anything.

章鱼确实会感受到一些东西，就像我们一样。

An octopus does feel something in the same way that we do.

因此，我们可以从它们拥有积极和消极体验、有想要和不想要的东西、喜欢和不喜欢的事物等方面，来思考它们与我们自身的相似之处。

And so we can think about overlaps with ourselves in terms of them having positive and negative experiences and having things that they want and don't want, things that they like and don't like.

多棒的一个词啊。

What a great word.

我太喜欢这个词了。

I love it.

有感知力的。

Sentient.

那么，我们如何判断章鱼的智力或自我意识水平呢？

So how do we tell how intelligent or self aware an octopus is?

科学家们有没有什么测试方法来找出这一点呢？

Are there are there tests that scientists can do to to find that out?

有的。

Yeah.

我认为，要理解章鱼有多聪明确实非常困难，因为我们并不太清楚该如何向它提问，也不知道该给它什么样的挑战，才能充分探索它的行为边界。

I think, certainly, it's really difficult to understand how intelligent an octopus is because we don't really know very well how to ask the questions to it, you know, to give it the right kinds of challenges to explore how its behaviour extends.

因为它们与我们截然不同。

Because again, they are so different from ourselves.

它们生活在如此不同的环境中。

They do live in such a different environment.

因此，我们通常使用的测试方法并不太适合像章鱼这样的生物。

And so the usual sort of tests we might use aren't going to be very appropriate for something like an octopus.

例如，镜子测试是一种常用于判断动物是否具有自我意识的方法，即看它能否在镜中认出自己。

So for instance, you're using a mirror test is something that you use very commonly to see whether an animal is self aware, to see can it recognize itself when it looks in a mirror.

但你可能会认为，章鱼的视觉方式使它们无法像我们那样看待镜子。

But you might think that octopuses seeing the way that they do just can't see mirrors the same way we do.

所以它们无法将镜子识别为任何东西。

So they don't recognize it as anything.

但这并不能证明它们是否能够形成自我概念。

And that's no evidence of whether or not they are able to sort of form a conception of themselves.

因此，我们必须思考：如何为它们设计这些测试？

And so we have to think, how do we give them these tests?

我们如何以不同于研究其他动物的方式去了解它们？

How do we find out about them in ways that we are different from the ways that we find out about other animals?

哇。

Wow.

这真的很有意思。

That's really interesting.

我以前从来没有这样想过。

I never really thought of it that way.

我想，我们对自己身份的认知很大程度上来自于我们看待世界的方式，但章鱼感知世界的方式与我们如此不同，以至于我们人类很难真正理解它。

I guess so much of our sense of who we are is comes from how we look at the world, but octopuses perceive the world so differently to us that it must be hard for us humans to really wrap our brains around it.

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道章鱼会如何测试人类的智力。

I wonder what the octopus test for human intelligence would be.

也许能够同时携带八种不同的物体。

Maybe being able to to carry eight different objects at once.

是的。

Yeah.

肯定有我做不到的事情。

There's more than I can do for sure.

嗯，一定有一些方式，比如人类的体验和章鱼的体验是有重叠的。

Well, there must be some ways in which, like, a human experience overlaps with the octopus experience.

也许我们共享某些特质，这些特质可能源自我们进化史的早期，这能让我们更好地理解它们的感知能力。

Maybe some traits that we share, something from way back perhaps in our evolutionary history, which would give us an insight into how sentient they are.

它们与我们可能存在的某些重叠，比如探索环境的欲望。

Some of the overlaps that they might have with us might be, for instance, a desire to explore their environment.

我们观察到章鱼似乎是很好奇的动物。

One of the things that we see with octopuses is that they seem to be very curious animals.

它们喜欢探索自己的环境。

They love to explore their environment.

养章鱼的人总是提到，章鱼总是试图逃出水族箱，去探索外界，或者对任何新放进水族箱的东西产生兴趣。

People who keep octopuses in tanks always talk about, you know, the ways that octopuses are trying to escape and get out and explore the environment or anything new that goes into the tank.

它们想看看它。

They wanna have a look at it.

这似乎也适用于野生章鱼。

And this seems to true be for wild octopuses as well.

因此，它们具有这种好奇心，以及一种渴望了解世界、解决所遇问题的思维。

So they have this sort of curiosity and this mind that wants to learn about the world and wants to solve problems that it encounters.

这可能正是我们自己也非常熟悉的东西。

And that might be something that we can be quite familiar with ourselves.

我们不喜欢感到无聊。

We don't like to be bored.

我们不喜欢身处一个无所事事的环境中，看起来章鱼也不愿意这样。

We don't like to be in an environment with nothing to do, and it seems like octopuses don't want to either.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，除了章鱼擅长伪装之外，我听说的另一件事是，它们也是出色的逃脱高手。

I mean, if there's one other thing that I've heard about octopuses other than them being amazing at disguising themselves, is that they're also great escape artists.

是的。

Yes.

我们的下一位嘉宾有一个精彩的故事，讲述了他如何亲身体验到这一点。

And our next guest has a brilliant story about how he learned that firsthand.

你好。

Hello.

我是克里斯·帕克汉。

I'm Chris Packham.

今天我要谈谈我的新书《超级英雄动物》。

I'm talking today about my new book, Superhero Animals.

我用‘超级英雄’这个标签，鼓励年轻人去探索的不仅是那些在我们星球上爬行、鸣叫、蠕动、分泌黏液和叮咬的大型著名生物，还有他们在日常生活中可能遇到的小生物，比如黄蜂、蜜蜂和蚯蚓，它们在维持我们赖以生存的生态系统功能方面发挥着至关重要的作用。

I'm using the tag as superheroes to encourage young people to explore not just the big and the famous creatures that creep, call, slither, slime, and sting across our planet, but the small things that they might encounter in their everyday lives like wasps and bees and earthworms, all of whom play a considerably important role in the functional maintenance of the ecosystems upon which we are dependent.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

欢迎来到节目，克里斯。

Welcome to the show, Chris.

非常高兴您做客《科学之谜》。

Very pleased to have you on Mysteries of Science.

你们中的一些人可能在《春日观察》等电视节目中见过克里斯。

Some of you may have seen, Chris on the TV in shows like Springwatch.

正如他所提到的，他刚刚出版了一本名为《超级英雄动物》的新书。

And as he mentioned, he has a brand new book out called superhero animals.

是的。

Yes.

您可以在即将出版的《少儿科学与自然》杂志中阅读到更多我与克里斯的访谈内容，并了解他这本书的更多信息。

And you'll be able to read more from my interview with Chris, and find out more about his book in an upcoming issue of the Weed Junior Science and Nature magazine.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

我迫不及待想看到那期杂志。

I can't wait to see that.

但我们现在正在谈论章鱼。

But we're talking about octopuses right now.

克里斯，迈克尔之前跟我们提到了你那个关于章鱼逃脱的精彩故事。

And, Chris, Michael's teased us earlier with this great octopus escape story you have.

你能跟我们分享一下吗？

So can you share it with us?

那是我第一次出国旅行，我去了西班牙海岸，参加大学组织的实地考察，时间是上世纪八十年代初。

So it was my first trip overseas, and I went to the coast of Spain on a university field trip at the start of the nineteen eighties.

有一天晚上，我独自一人在岩石滩上散步，发现了一只章鱼。

And I was out one evening on my own on on the the rocky foreshore, and I found an octopus.

我把它放进了一个桶里，兴奋极了。

And I put it into a bucket, and I was so excited by it.

我的意思是，遇到这种动物简直难以置信。

I mean, I it was just unbelievable to to encounter that animal.

你知道吗？

You know?

于是，我提着装满海水的桶，回到了我住的酒店，那里离海滩非常近。

And, anyway, so I then carried buckets of seawater back to the hotel room that I was staying in, which was very close to the beach.

所以这并不是一个太费力的过程。

So it wasn't too laborious an exercise.

我用海水装满了浴缸，把章鱼放了进去。

And I filled the bath with seawater, and I put the octopus in it.

我对它所有的颜色变化和行为都着迷了。

And I was fascinated by all of its color changes and what it was doing.

能够近距离观察它，真是非同寻常。

And and being able to get a close-up view of it was just remarkable.

多么不可思议的生物啊。

Such incredible creatures.

但当然，浴缸根本无法困住章鱼。

But, of course, a bath is no way of enclosing an octopus.

所以，你知道吗，我刚上床开始看书，就听到一阵拍打声，章鱼已经从浴缸里出来了，紧紧贴在瓷砖上。

So, no, you know, as soon as I sort of got into bed and started reading my book, I I heard a sort of a slapping sound and the octopus was out of the bath and it glued itself to the tiles.

于是我试图把它撬下来，再放回浴缸里。

And I was then trying to pry it off and get it back into the bath.

总之，最简单的办法就是把它放回它该待的地方——回到海里。

Anyway, the easiest option was to put it back where it belonged, was back into the sea.

但这次是与一种生物的相遇。

But it was an encounter with a creature.

我实在无法用言语形容。

Was something just I can't tell you.

我太兴奋了。

Was so excited.

简直要炸开了。

Almost burst.

能够感受到它、触摸它、近距离观察它，看到它的色素细胞在明显感到威胁或稍微放松时改变颜色，真是太神奇了。

You know, it was just amazing to be able to feel it, to touch it, to look at it in close-up, to see all of its chromatophores changing color when it was clearly feeling threatened or feeling more slightly more relaxed.

太神奇了。

Amazing.

在那之后，我很幸运地多次与章鱼合作，研究它们的智力，如果你愿意这么说的话。

And and and subsequent to that, I've been lucky enough to work with Octopus on a number of occasions looking at their, know, their intelligence, if if you like.

当然，它们的解剖结构，以及循环系统和神经系统的组织方式，非常有趣。

And certainly, the the their anatomy, the way that they organize circulation and their nervous system is is really interesting.

太神奇了。

That's amazing.

多么精彩的故事啊。

What a brilliant story.

我特别喜欢那段关于听到它的描述。

I love the bit about hearing it.

醒来时听到它拍打水面，试图回到海里。

Waking up to hear it slapping off, get trying to get back to the sea.

我想，我们在这集中已经学到了两个非常棒的人生教训。

Well, I think we've already learned two really good life lessons here, in this episode.

首先，远离蓝环章鱼；其次，别试图把章鱼养在浴缸里。

First of all, steer clear of the blue ringed octopus, and secondly, don't try to keep an octopus in your bath.

是的。

Yes.

我肯定会记下这些笔记，以便将来某天遇到章鱼时用上。

I'm definitely, taking some notes here for when I come across an octopus one day.

克里斯，你提到自从那只章鱼从你酒店浴室逃走后，你就做了大量关于章鱼的研究。

Chris, you mentioned that you've done a lot of research into octopuses since that one, got away from your hotel bathroom.

你能跟我们分享一下你学到的一些东西吗？

So could you share with us some of the things you've learned?

我最近了解到的关于乌贼最有趣的事情是关于乌贼的梦境。

The most interesting thing I've learned about Ultibus recently is about Ultibus dreaming.

因为当它们在野外被记录到捕猎、自我保护或感到天敌威胁时，会经历一系列颜色变化。

Because, when they, have been recorded in the wild, hunting, protecting themselves, feeling threatened by predators, they go through a series of color changes.

它们身体中的色素细胞——能够使它们迅速而显著地改变颜色的细胞——具有特定的模式。

The chromatophores, the cells in their body that allow them to very dramatically and rapidly change color, have a particular pattern.

而我们在章鱼做梦时发现，它们会重复这一模式。

And what we've seen with octopus dreaming is that they repeat that pattern.

因此很明显，我们甚至可以推测出章鱼在梦中梦见了什么。

So it's clear that and we we can even tell, we think, you know, what the octopus is dreaming about.

因为当它在捕猎螃蟹或逃离捕食者时，会经历一系列身体和颜色的变化，而梦境中正是模仿了这些变化。

Because it would be going through a series of, you know, physical and color changes, which mimic that when it's, say, hunting a crab or escaping from a predator.

因此，科学家们在实验室中仔细观察了章鱼，并且我们已经能够理解它们在梦中想的是什么。

And so scientists have watched octopus very carefully in the labs, and and and we understand what they're dreaming about.

对我而言，这显然是非常迷人的科学，但其中也蕴含着一种浪漫。

And for me, obviously, that's fascinating science, you know, but it there's also a a a romance to it as well.

想象一下，看着一只正在睡觉的章鱼，却知道它在梦什么。

The idea of looking at an octopus that's asleep and knowing what it's dreaming about.

这背后有一种魔力。

There's something magical about that.

我总是认为，科学是理解真理与美的艺术。

And I always think of science as the art of understanding truth and beauty.

而这句话中的关键词是‘艺术’，因为艺术完全没有理由不能与科学融合。

And the key words in that phrase are art because there isn't any reason why art shouldn't be integrated with science.

它们并不是相互分离的学科。

They're not separate disciplines.

美是内在的，无论是在研究对象还是科学方法中。

Beauty is beauty is implicit, whether it's the subject or the scientific methodology.

而真理是我们追求的目标，以便深化我们的理解。

And truth is what we pursue so that we can advance our understanding.

我认为，有时科学被视为一种冰冷、疏离的东西，但从我的角度来看并非如此。

And I think sometimes science is seen very as a as a very cold, detached thing, but not from my point of view.

我热爱章鱼做梦的浪漫之处。

I love the romance of octopus dreaming.

哇。

Wow.

对章鱼内心世界有了如此精彩的洞察。

What a great insight into the mind of an octopus.

我认为，你知道，这一集如果有什么启示的话，那就是我们越深入研究这类奇妙的动物，就越能揭开更多的谜团。

I think, you know, this this episode, if it's shown anything, it's that the more we look into amazing animals like this, the the the more mysteries we just uncover, really.

而且，对克里斯·佩克汉姆的内心世界也有了如此奇妙的洞察。

And, well, what an amazing insight into the mind into the mind of Chris Peckham as well.

是的。

Yes.

科学是理解真理与美的艺术。

Science is the art of understanding truth and beauty.

说得非常好。

Very well said.

接下来，我们将推出神秘度测量仪。

Now in a moment, we'll be wheeling out the Mysteryometer.

但在那之前，我们收到了一些听众发来的精彩问题。

But before we do that, we've been sent some brilliant questions from our listeners.

你好，科学之谜。

Hi, Mystery of Science.

我叫乔纳，今年八岁。

My name is Jonah, and I am eight years old.

我有个问题。

And I've got a question.

毁灭恐龙的小行星是怎么形成的？

How did the asteroid that, wiped out the dinosaurs be made?

谢谢，乔纳。

Thanks, Jonah.

这是我们从邓肯那里收到的另一个问题。

And here's another question we got from Duncan.

地球上第一个被创造出来的生物是什么？

What was the first being on Earth ever to be created?

谢谢你们的问题。

Thank you for the questions.

我们将在下一期节目《你的谜题》中解答这两个问题，届时将邀请布莱恩·考克斯教授等专家嘉宾参与。

We'll be answering both of them in our next episode, your mysteries, which will feature expert guests such as professor Brian Cox.

好的。

Okay.

所以，我们要推出我们自己的精美装置。

So we're going to wheel out our own beautiful device.

这是神秘度量仪。

This is the Mysteryometer.

对于不熟悉它的人，这是我们将用来衡量谜题解决程度的设备，正如萨姆·塞德曼所说。

And for those who are unfamiliar with it, this is the device that we use to gauge how well solved the of the mystery, as Sam Sedgman will put it.

它有一个从0到100的刻度。

So it's got a scale which goes from zero to a 100.

0意味着我们对这个谜题一无所知，一切都还有待探索。

Zero means we know nothing about the mystery, and everything is left to find out.

而100意味着我们已知晓一切，案件已经终结。

And a 100 means that we know everything, and the case is closed.

所以我想知道，我们的专家认为我们对章鱼了解多少呢？

So I wonder how much our experts think we know about octopuses.

我认为这个问题很难回答，因为每当我们学到新东西，或者每当我们认为自己已经充分了解章鱼，甚至海洋中的任何事物时，总还有更多东西等待我们发现。

I think this question is really hard to answer because every time we learn something new or every time we we think we know a lot about not just octopuses, but anything in the ocean, there are still more things that we are discovering.

所以，比如，我们对章鱼的基本解剖结构已经相当了解。

So, you know, we know quite a lot about, for example, the basic anatomy of an octopus.

我们了解很多关于它们大脑、吸盘以及喷墨等功能的研究。

We know about there's lots of studies about their brains and about their suckers and about how they can ink and things like that.

关于章鱼作为章鱼的基本特征，我们知道的已经很多了。

There's a lot that we know about the fundamental pieces of an octopus that make it an octopus.

对吧？

Right?

但我们仍然需要发现更多关于它们在环境中所扮演角色以及它们在海洋中栖息地的信息。

But there's still so much more that we need to discover about the role that they play in their environment, about where they're living in the ocean.

海洋中还有大量区域尚未被探索。

There's so much of the ocean that's still been unexplored.

正如我所说，当我们研究深海时，人们不断发现关于深海章鱼的新事物。

As I said, when we're working in the deep sea, they're they're discovering new things about the octopuses that live in the deep sea all the time.

所以我不确定我们在这个量表上处于什么位置，但我敢打赌，即使我们认为自己知道很多，可能还是低估了。

So I I'm not sure where we fall on the scale, but I bet you, as much as we think we know, we're probably underestimating it.

可能还有更多有待发现的东西。

There's probably still a lot more to discover.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为在这一点上，我们仍然处于很低的水平。

I think I'd still place us quite low on the scale in terms of that.

所以也许可以打个30分吧，我们知道这些是动物。

So maybe something like a 30 that, you know, we've got an idea that these are animals.

它们以与我们相似的方式进化了。

They've evolved in similar ways that we have.

因此，或许存在某种基础，让我们能够将它们与自己做类比，思考它们也有欲望和喜好，即使这些欲望和喜好与我们不同。

So perhaps there's some basis for making these kinds of analogies to ourselves and thinking, well, you know, they they want things and they like things even if they're different things than ourselves.

但我们仍然有很多不了解的地方。

But there's still a lot we don't know.

目前，关于章鱼最有趣和最神秘的一点之一，就是它们拥有多少个心智。

And so one of the perhaps most interesting and mysterious things about octopuses at the moment is how many minds they have.

我们有一个大脑，大脑里有一个心智。

And so, you know, we have one big brain and one mind inside that brain.

我们了解自己。

We know ourselves.

但章鱼的大脑实际上分布在它们的身体各处。

But octopuses actually have a brain that's sort of spread out throughout their bodies.

它们有一个中央大脑，但每条触手的顶端还有非常大的微型大脑或神经集群。

They have a central brain, but they also have very large sort of mini brains or nerve clusters at the top of each arm.

每条触手都可以独立行动。

And each of these arms can act independently.

它能够感知世界并做出行为决策，而完全不需要中央大脑的参与。

It can sense the world and make decisions about its behavior without involving the central brain at all.

所以，这确实是一个有趣的问题：那些微型大脑内部是否也有某种主观体验？

And so, yeah, this is really interesting question about is there something that it's like to be inside those mini brains?

你知道，章鱼是否像我们一样是一个统一的主体，还是说它是八到九个独立的主体，彼此像一个合作群体那样相处，而不是单一的个体？

You know, is an octopus sort of one unified subject in the way we are, or is it eight or nine separate subjects that are sort of getting along like a cooperative group rather than just being one individual?

这一点科学家和哲学家们已经讨论过，但目前我们真的不知道。

And that's something that scientists, philosophers have talked about, but we really don't know at this point.

我会说，我们在神秘度量表上的位置可能出人意料地高，因为章鱼可以在 captivity 中饲养，并被用于各种认知研究。

I would say that we're probably surprisingly high on the mysteryometer because octopus can be kept in captivity, and they've been used for all sorts of cognitive studies.

因此，人们一直在研究它们如何学习、如何记忆以及如何解决问题，并将这些与其它物种进行对比。

So people have been looking at how they learn and how they remember and how they solve problems and contrasting that with other other species.

与某些物种不同——这些物种我们根本无法养在实验室里，因此也无法有效地将它们置于我们的显微镜下研究——章鱼、乌贼和某些鱿鱼物种在 captivity 中被很好地饲养，并得到了深入研究。

So unlike some species, which frankly we can't put in a lab or and effectively, therefore, metaphorically under our microscope and study, octopus and cuttlefish, squid some squid species have been kept well in captivity and have been very well studied.

因此，谈到它们的解剖结构等方面，我认为它们比一些其他生物，比如水螅群体或刺胞动物等，被理解得更透彻。

So when it comes to their anatomy, so on and so forth, I think that they are, you know, probably much better understood than some of, you know, the other creatures like siphonophores or cnidarians and and so forth.

这些生活在深海的群体生物，在神秘度量表上几乎接近于零。

These colonial animals that occur at great depths, they'd be quite close to the zero on on the Mysteryometer.

而章鱼，我认为我们不了解它们，是因为我们是陆生动物。

Whereas octopus, I would say, we don't encounter them, you know, because we're terrestrial animals.

所以，我对章鱼行为的了解，不如我对花园里黑鸟的了解多。

So I I don't know as much about the the behavior of octopus as I do the blackbirds in my garden.

因此，我会把它们放在中间位置。

So I'm gonna put them midway along.

如果不是100分的话，我会给它们打50到60分，因为它们受到了如此深入的研究。

Probably if it's not to a 100, I'm gonna put them at around fifty, fifty five, 60, scoring higher than some animals because of the fact that they've been researched so intently.

如果我们知道它们会做梦，那或许可以把分数提升到65左右。

And if we know that they're dreaming, then maybe we push it up to sort of 65.

所以，对于一种海洋生物来说，我认为我们对它们的了解比对许多其他生物要多一些。

So, you know, for for a creature which is marine and and aquatic, I think we know a bit more about them than we do many other things.

但众所周知，我们常说，我们对深空的了解比对深海的了解更多，我觉得这话有一定道理。

But then we you know, it's a frequent, you know, saying is that we know, you know, more about deep space than we know about our deep oceans, and there's some level of truth in that, I think.

好的。

Okay.

好吧，我们这里得到了各种不同的答案，但很明显的一点是，关于章鱼还有很多待发现的东西，谜团依然悬而未决。

Well, we've got a range of answers there, but I think one thing is clear coming through that there's actually plenty more to discover about octopuses, octopuses, and the mystery is still wide open.

是的。

Yes.

谜团仍在继续，我们期待您的分享。

The mystery continues, and we want to hear from you.

事实上，最近我们给大家布置了一个挑战，模仿动物的笑声，而这一集让我意识到，还没有人尝试过模仿章鱼的笑声。

In fact, recently, we set you all the challenge of laughing like an animal, and this episode has made me realize that nobody has actually attempted to laugh like an octopus yet.

但考虑到我们现在已经对章鱼有了这么多了解，我不知道我们的听众是否有人愿意尝试一下并发送给我们。

But given how much we've learned about them now, I wonder whether any of our listeners would like to give that a try and send it into us.

我明白你在打什么主意，迈克尔。

I see what you're doing, Michael.

这次我可不会上你的当，但也许我们的听众会想尝试模仿章鱼的笑声。

I'm not falling into your trap this time, But, but maybe maybe our listeners might want to attempt to laugh like an octopus.

我本人就很想听听看。

I, for one, would love to hear it.

你可以通过访问 Fun Kids Live 并点击那个大红色按钮来发送语音留言。

You can send us a voice note by going to Fun Kids Live and hitting the big red button.

没错。

That's right.

你也可以通过电子邮件联系我们，邮箱是 hello@science-nature.co.uk。

And you can also send us an email at hello@science-nature.co.uk.